Hello everyone On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 3:40 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Greetings, > > This is certainly a worthy topic, especially since the Wikipedia article > states that it is a primary concern of Robert Pirsig. Dan: No one is denying that. The problem arises when certain people use subject/object thinking to undermine the MOQ. > Perhaps the folks from the LilaSquad could be invited back for a specified > time period to open up this one topic. Or not... > Dan: What is keeping you from going there and discussing it? > > > Marsha > > p.s. Please note that the MoQ Textbook states that Idealism is a form of > SOM. > > > 2.2. SUBJECT-OBJECT METAPHYSICS > Pirsig uses the term ‘subject-object metaphysics’ (SOM) for any > metaphysics (explicitly or implicitly) that perceives reality as either > mind and/or matter such as idealism, materialism, and dualism. This > recognition is not unique to Pirsig as, for instance, the Cambridge > Dictionary of Philosophy also notes that ‘a subject-object dichotomy is > acknowledged in most Western traditions’. > (McWatt, Anthony, 'MoQ Textbook', 2010) > Dan: And? > > > > Wikipedia: > > The subject–object problem, a longstanding philosophical issue, is > concerned with the analysis of human experience, and arises from the > premise that the world consists of objects (entities) which are perceived > or otherwise presumed to exist as entities, by subjects (observers). This > division of experience results in questions regarding how subjects relate > to objects. An important sub-topic is the question of how our own mind > relates to other minds, and how to treat the "radical difference that holds > between our access to our own experience and our access to the experience > of all other human beings", known as the epistemological problem of other > minds. The subject–object problem has two primary aspects. First is the > question of "what" is known. The field of ontology deals with questions > concerning what entities exist or can be said to exist, and how such > entities can be grouped, related within a hierarchy, and subdivided > according to similarities and differences. The second standpoint is that of > "how" does one know what one knows. The field of epistemology questions > what knowledge is, how it is acquired, and to what extent it is possible > for a given entity to be known. It includes both subjects and objects. > Dan: How is this something we do not already know? > > ... > > Other approaches: > > Analytic philosophy discusses various aspects of the problem of subject > and object such as the mind body problem, first-person versus third-person > perspective and also issues of non-referential use of I presented by G. E. > M. Anscombe. > > Robert M. Pirsig's philosophy of the Metaphysics of Quality is largely > concerned with the subject–object problem. > > Sun Myung Moon's philosophy, Unification Thought, treats subject and > object in a way different from classical ideas of Hegel and Marx. > > Philosopher Ken Wilber has written extensively on this, calling the > omniscient view (or subject–object distinction) the fundamental modernist > paradigm, and cataloging its effects on society, and in the way many > subjects have been compressed into a "flat" view by this perspective. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject-object_problem > Dan: Again, no one here is denying any of this. Is there some point that I am missing here? Dan http://www.danglover.com Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
