[email protected]> <[email protected]> To: [email protected] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085)
Dear Marsha Sorry for that. You seem to confirm dmb thesis that you're rigidly anti-intellectual which makes it impossible to maintain a useful dialogue at this forum. RMP: "Life can't exist on Dynamic Quality alone. It has no staying power. To cling to Dynamic Quality alone apart from any static patterns is to cling to chaos." Please, do not forget to burn the clay before you sell it. Jan-Anders 14 maj 2013 x kl. 11.10 skrev MarshaV: > > J-A, > > You would like to restrict me to the the either/or, yes/no dichotomy of the > Flatlander's language? No thanks. Closed-ended questions make me sneeze. > In Flatland the tendency is to label a pattern, then give that label a > definition, then take the pattern to actually be the labeled definition. > That's reification and a very superficial understanding. > > > Marsha > > p.s. Get someone else to play the role of Alcibiades. > > > > On May 13, 2013, at 6:37 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> [email protected]> <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) >> >> Dear Marsha >> >> Of course there is a point. Are you able to agree in any point? Y/N >> >> J A >> >> >> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 12.25 skrev MarshaV: >> >>> >>> J-A, >>> >>> There never was a point, was there? And now another pointless question? >>> >>> Mu! >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:10 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Marsha >>>> >>>> What do you like the writings of Robert M Pirsig? >>>> >>>> J A >>>> >>>> >>>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 11.05 skrev MarshaV: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> J-A, >>>>> >>>>> What she? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 4:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> So did you like the pattern she created? >>>>>> >>>>>> J A >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 10.28 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> J-A, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would you now like to lecture me on how you have achieved a similar >>>>>>> performance of beauty, harmony, balance, and how I could too if only I >>>>>>> listen to your wise words? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 3:43 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about this >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.flixxy.com/the-incredible-power-of-concentration-miyoko-shida.htm#.UZCXf3DEjcU >>>>>>> >>>>>>> J A >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings J-A, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 1:56 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Marsha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you are interested to know its point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it your habit (pattern) to think you KNOW other people's interests? >>>>>>> That's a rather grandiose claim. - Make your point! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's my mundane point: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- Static patterns of value are repetitive processes (multiple >>>>>>> events), >>>>>>> >>>>>>> conditionally co-dependent, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> impermanent, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and ever-changing, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a stable, >>>>>>> predictable pattern. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Within the MoQ, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> these patterns are morally categorized into a four-level, >>>>>>> evolutionary, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> hierarchical >>>>>>> structure: >>>>>>> intellectual, >>>>>>> social, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> biological, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and inorganic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Static quality exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Patterns have no independent, >>>>>>> inherent existence. --- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> p.s. Consider this explanation in the same category as "pure >>>>>>> experience" where 'pure' doesn't mean 'pure' but merely 'relatively >>>>>>> pure' and there are no accusations of some horrendous, unspeakable, >>>>>>> anti-intellectual crime against definition. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 12 maj 2013 x kl. 23.46 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> J-A, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Answer the Y/N questions yourself; I am not interested in doing so. >>>>>>>>> It's your thought experiment, so explain its point. What are you >>>>>>>>> thinking? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jan Anders Andersson >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Marsha >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It shouldn't hurt or be dangerous in any way to just answer my >>>>>>>>>> questions with YES or NO. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is the clay burned to make it firm? Y/N >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does that make it better and more useful? Y/N >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> J-A >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The original topic has not been replaced; it was change, not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clay or teapots or 'saving time'. Before (when soft and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> malleable) and after a firing (when firm and stable), the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clay is still in a constant state of changing. In other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words, both before and after the firing, the clay or teapot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is ever-changing. So once again I suggest that you might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take a few minutes everyday to take an introspective look: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Marsha: >>>>>>>>>>> I have pointed out many times, it is not anti-intellectual or a >>>>>>>>>>> contradiction to understand that patterns may maintain a static, >>>>>>>>>>> stable identity at the same time as they and their context are >>>>>>>>>>> undergoing constant change. Think of the Ship of Theseus, or a >>>>>>>>>>> parade (Hume) where everyone drops out but is replaced so that the >>>>>>>>>>> parade is maintained, or the body with its cells constantly being >>>>>>>>>>> replaced. Things can change - flow - and yet have permanence; >>>>>>>>>>> think of a river. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 11 maj 2013 x kl. 00.43 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> J-A, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Any time you are ready to make the point of your thought experiment >>>>>>>>>>> clear I will consider it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 5:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well Marsha >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You admit that the clay changes from soft and malleable to firm >>>>>>>>>>>> and stable AND still in a constant state of changeing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you understand that there is a change? The physical pattern >>>>>>>>>>>> changes into another, OK? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> J-A >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 kl. 10.32 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> J-A, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What potter? - It's your thought experiment and I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> understand it's point, so you'd be the person who must answer the >>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 3:30 AM, Jan Anders Andersson >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you say that the clay changes from soft and malleable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> firm and stable AND still in a constant state of changeing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why do you think the potter is burning the clay? Is it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it makes the clay firm and stable or doesn't it really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter because it is still in a state of change? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 x kl. 09.12 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snip... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ___ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>>> Archives: >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
