J-A, You would like to restrict me to the the either/or, yes/no dichotomy of the Flatlander's language? No thanks. Closed-ended questions make me sneeze. In Flatland the tendency is to label a pattern, then give that label a definition, then take the pattern to actually be the labeled definition. That's reification and a very superficial understanding.
Marsha p.s. Get someone else to play the role of Alcibiades. On May 13, 2013, at 6:37 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]> wrote: > [email protected]> <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) > > Dear Marsha > > Of course there is a point. Are you able to agree in any point? Y/N > > J A > > > 13 maj 2013 x kl. 12.25 skrev MarshaV: > >> >> J-A, >> >> There never was a point, was there? And now another pointless question? >> >> Mu! >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> On May 13, 2013, at 6:10 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Marsha >>> >>> What do you like the writings of Robert M Pirsig? >>> >>> J A >>> >>> >>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 11.05 skrev MarshaV: >>> >>>> >>>> J-A, >>>> >>>> What she? >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 13, 2013, at 4:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> So did you like the pattern she created? >>>>> >>>>> J A >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 10.28 skrev MarshaV: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> J-A, >>>>>> >>>>>> Would you now like to lecture me on how you have achieved a similar >>>>>> performance of beauty, harmony, balance, and how I could too if only I >>>>>> listen to your wise words? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 3:43 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> How about this >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.flixxy.com/the-incredible-power-of-concentration-miyoko-shida.htm#.UZCXf3DEjcU >>>>>> >>>>>> J A >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Greetings J-A, >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 1:56 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Marsha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you are interested to know its point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it your habit (pattern) to think you KNOW other people's interests? >>>>>> That's a rather grandiose claim. - Make your point! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's my mundane point: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- Static patterns of value are repetitive processes (multiple events), >>>>>> >>>>>> conditionally co-dependent, >>>>>> >>>>>> impermanent, >>>>>> >>>>>> and ever-changing, >>>>>> >>>>>> that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a stable, >>>>>> predictable pattern. >>>>>> >>>>>> Within the MoQ, >>>>>> >>>>>> these patterns are morally categorized into a four-level, >>>>>> evolutionary, >>>>>> >>>>>> hierarchical >>>>>> structure: >>>>>> intellectual, >>>>>> social, >>>>>> >>>>>> biological, >>>>>> >>>>>> and inorganic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Static quality exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns. >>>>>> >>>>>> Patterns have no independent, >>>>>> inherent existence. --- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> p.s. Consider this explanation in the same category as "pure >>>>>> experience" where 'pure' doesn't mean 'pure' but merely 'relatively >>>>>> pure' and there are no accusations of some horrendous, unspeakable, >>>>>> anti-intellectual crime against definition. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 12 maj 2013 x kl. 23.46 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> J-A, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Answer the Y/N questions yourself; I am not interested in doing so. >>>>>>>> It's your thought experiment, so explain its point. What are you >>>>>>>> thinking? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jan Anders Andersson >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Marsha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It shouldn't hurt or be dangerous in any way to just answer my >>>>>>>>> questions with YES or NO. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is the clay burned to make it firm? Y/N >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does that make it better and more useful? Y/N >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> J-A >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The original topic has not been replaced; it was change, not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clay or teapots or 'saving time'. Before (when soft and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> malleable) and after a firing (when firm and stable), the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clay is still in a constant state of changing. In other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words, both before and after the firing, the clay or teapot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is ever-changing. So once again I suggest that you might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take a few minutes everyday to take an introspective look: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Marsha: >>>>>>>>>> I have pointed out many times, it is not anti-intellectual or a >>>>>>>>>> contradiction to understand that patterns may maintain a static, >>>>>>>>>> stable identity at the same time as they and their context are >>>>>>>>>> undergoing constant change. Think of the Ship of Theseus, or a >>>>>>>>>> parade (Hume) where everyone drops out but is replaced so that the >>>>>>>>>> parade is maintained, or the body with its cells constantly being >>>>>>>>>> replaced. Things can change - flow - and yet have permanence; think >>>>>>>>>> of a river. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 11 maj 2013 x kl. 00.43 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> J-A, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any time you are ready to make the point of your thought experiment >>>>>>>>>> clear I will consider it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 5:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Well Marsha >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You admit that the clay changes from soft and malleable to firm and >>>>>>>>>>> stable AND still in a constant state of changeing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Do you understand that there is a change? The physical pattern >>>>>>>>>>> changes into another, OK? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> J-A >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 kl. 10.32 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> J-A, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What potter? - It's your thought experiment and I don't >>>>>>>>>>>> understand it's point, so you'd be the person who must answer the >>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 3:30 AM, Jan Anders Andersson >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you say that the clay changes from soft and malleable to firm >>>>>>>>>>>>> and stable AND still in a constant state of changeing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So why do you think the potter is burning the clay? Is it because >>>>>>>>>>>>> it makes the clay firm and stable or doesn't it really matter >>>>>>>>>>>>> because it is still in a state of change? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 x kl. 09.12 skrev MarshaV: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> snip... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
