[DM]
Is there not a distinction between language and perception? Is perception not clearly less full of only objects than language? It is also possible to talk in terms of what is experienced as feels, smells etc and avoid object talk. SO is useful of course, it is adding the M to make SOM that is clearly questionable. Have you tried linguistic phenomenalism? -try a goggle search on it. [Ron] Dm, I want to yes there is a distinction between perception and language, but even in my most non lingual moments visually I process data in terms of understanding the object I'm seeing. Carl jung suggests that all experience is based on symbols created from the first experiences of when we were children that even our perception is entirely based on symbol relation. I believe when we experience something and have no idea of what it is, that is pure non-s/o distinction. Ever get lost and have no idea where you are then connect up with a road you are familier with, a road you use all the time, ever notice how your perception changes when you realize where you are? I see s/o as symbol relation and therefore view language as a complex form Of symbol relation for language evokes symbol imagery. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Perception,evolution and the spirit > > > > [DM] > > I meant ZMM of course. But if you fancy a change try Bishop Berkeley or > Whitehead's Process & Reality for explanation of why the subject object > language is optional and questionable. > > [Ron] > DM, language is subject/object. Any time you define anything it is > reduced to subject/object. > I also believe perception follows suit, unless you grew up with no > language and hold no > definition for anything, or you are a victim of alzhiemers disease or > catatonic, to drop > subject object is to drop all conscious definition of anything and > percieve all as one. > Are you able to do this? > MOQ does not allow me to overcome this but it does allow me to be aware > of it. It > Allows me to refine my value judgements and make more accurate > decisions. > MOQ has not changed the way I percieve everyday reality but it has > changed my > acceptance of experiences. I no longer discount things based past > experiences > I strive to take into account all factors of experience before making > A value judgement. > > A zen monk once said: before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. > After enlightenment, > Chop wood, carry water. > > If you term SOM to mean absolutism, either/or excluded middle logic, > then yes > It is optional. But as I stated, it is a much different story to change > your > Perception of subject/object reality, that is what I'm talking about, > if you > would have read alittle more closely before being too quick to fire off > a sarcastic > Quip. > > To all, I do make an effort not to use sarcasim or abuse, I would > appreciate the same > from all of you. I do not feel this is too much to ask. If you feel that > it is, > please do not respond to my posts, that easy. Thanks. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Kulp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:08 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] Perception,evolution and the spirit > > >> >> >> Ron said: >>> Subject/object perception can not be "dropped" like a unstylish hand >>> bag. >>> Anyone who thinks they do not percieve in terms of subjects and >>> objects is fooling themselves. >> >> >> I know a good book you should read. >> >> DM >> >> >> [Ron] >> Do tell, I could use a good read. Thanks! >> >> >> >> moq_discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
