[Ron]
> but even in my most
> non lingual moments visually I process data in terms of understanding
> the object I'm seeing.
[SA]
Understand the object, how?
[Ron]
recognition, without intellectualizing we recognize objects as something
we experienced before
or something similar. when I see water I don't think the word water
yet,I know what water is.
[Ron]
> Carl jung suggests that all experience is based on symbols created
> from the first experiences of when we were children that even our
> perception is entirely based on symbol relation.
What symbols? When I stare at a tree, I don't stare at symbols in
my head - I can if I want, but at this moment I'm staring at something
on the biological level, not the intellectual level called tree.
[Ron]
yes, but you still understand it is a tree
[Ron]
> I believe when we experience something and have no idea of what it is,
> that is pure non-s/o distinction.
[SA]
And I don't have all the answers about myself yet let alone where I
am. I mean in relation to what. I can say I'm on the earth, but this
experience, this direct experience, and each season, yeah I know summer
is hot, but each summer I live I still find the woods/where I live, to
be an experience that offers nothing, but lovely, just plain lovely I
say. I don't walk around in my head with symbols in place of trees, I
can, but at this moment it's these trees, my son banging on something,
the crickets, green leaves, evening light, etc...
[Ron]
but you understand what these experiences are, I believe you do sort of
walk around with symbols
in your head of trees, that's how you understand trees to be trees, only
you are unaware of it
because it is a natural funtion of your brain. I believe to understand
something is to symbolize it.
intellect takes it a step further with communicating it by using
metaphors for these symbols.
which manifest audibly or physically in art or visual symbol... draw a
tree and all understand a
tree to be a tree whether they call it the english word "tree" or not.
we understand what it is.
crickets, oh winter kept you away and now your music is adored, SA
P.S. Ron, earlier during this thread I mentioned to you that endurance
as an indicator of static quality, and endurance also as a measure of
how much a static pattern is dynamicly receptive and that decay and
growth are static patterns but to focus only on decay or growth is to
take away their dynamic quality for now you've locked a static pattern
into an it must be either/or. What do you think of this?
[Ron]
I don't think I'm doing this, I'm saying sort of what Kant was saying
about aproiri experience.
ie.Pirsigs metaphor of the motorcycle. The data we receive is just data
until our minds process it and
identify it as a motorcycle, not the word but the understanding of the
form.
thanks, SA.
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