First off, thank you guys very much for your input here, I will address them most recent to oldest.
Peter, I apologize I cannot view this link I do not use facebook. I also cannot find a link to Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB that you mention. Nicholas Stock, Thanks a lot for showing me this website, I had come across it also, but was discouraged by the "sold out" notification for this board. Is there any way I can message the seller, you think? I really like all the features this board has already implemented for me...but maybe greg's first comment is calling my name... gregebert, Thanks for the very informative points, I have addressed my responses and followup questions individually below in *Italics.* #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. Some of them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or remove the tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or putting stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into the PCB, and the force to insert/remove tubes is very low. *Point taken, I will look at my sockets carefully before considering using them. Otherwise I will probably borrow your idea, cheers.* #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, and there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars apiece and the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing requires higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime. *This is what I have understood as well, thanks for confirming.* #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the recommended spec value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low and you risk cathode poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but as the anode voltage varies, so does the current (no such problem with a current regulator, though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode supply voltage and larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted energy. As tubes age, their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher anode voltage will help mitigate this. *Understood, is this implemented a current regulator per tube or is this a single current regulator? If single current regulator, how do you account for possibly having varying current with different digit activation? or am I missing an operating principle here?* #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch them. *This will definitely be part of the overall clock design (also incorporating a Noritake Itron 20 character 5x7 VFD). I plan on having a smoked plexiglass case housing the electronics and VFD while mounting the nixie tubes on top. Which leads on to our next point...* #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs I have a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor critical temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm. *If the tubes are always going to be high up in the air (on a dedicated wall shelf), is casing them necessary? Could not casing them cause convection heat to rise around them and risk stressing the glass? The thermal sensor is a good idea, for the inside of my case I will certainly implement this, probably in multiple spots as you suggested. Do people ever put thermocouples on the tubes themselves to monitor heat or could you see value in it? I might consider that in my design.* #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes. *This is not the first time I have read of depoisoning (a common feature on most bonafide driver boards I have seen). I have also seen there are different marketed techniques for depoisoning: slot machine, strobe, etc...* *What are the principles behind cathode poisoning and the theory of prevention? If this has already been documented somewhere please give me strength on my journey you send me on.* #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of my clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. Others have reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic value, though I'm not fond of it. *I tend to agree with you, for me, this was considered aesthetically not necessary, but if there is value in ensuring operation, I will plan on incorporating this in the design even if it is left partially implemented in hardware or neglected in software...* That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always lots of other features that can be done, especially if the clock has open-source software (or you develop it on your own). *Thank you again sincerely for expounding this much on this, I in the end, I am hoping to find a clock/driver board with open source software or just raw signal input pins exposed that way I can incorporate it in with my VFD with minimal additional effort expounded on the nixie driver block (because it has already been done probably way better than I would do it on a first pass). I can then address it, animate it, etc. with a microcontroller of my own...* On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 11:05:11 AM UTC-4 Nicholas Stock wrote: > Pete also has a remote driver system that will work with B8091s... > > https://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43 > > Nick > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 18, 2024, at 07:16, Peter Doroba <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > This is the clock I made using Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB. > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/142414439207058/search/?q=b-8091 > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 12:41:14 AM UTC-4 gregebert wrote: > >> Those are very valuable tubes, so if you are willing to design your own >> driver and the PC board, I would do that. I've made several clocks and >> never had a design problem that affected the tubes. Even if you find a >> board to purchase, see if any of the following apply: >> >> Some of my suggestions: >> #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. Some of >> them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or remove the >> tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or putting >> stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into the PCB, and >> the force to insert/remove tubes is very low. >> >> #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, and >> there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars apiece and >> the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing requires >> higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime. >> >> #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the recommended spec >> value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low and you risk cathode >> poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but as the anode voltage >> varies, so does the current (no such problem with a current regulator, >> though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode supply voltage and >> larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted energy. As tubes age, >> their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher anode voltage will >> help mitigate this. >> >> #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch them. >> >> #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough >> ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs I have >> a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor critical >> temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm. >> >> #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes. >> >> #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of my >> clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. Others have >> reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic value, though >> I'm not fond of it. >> >> That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always lots of >> other features that can be done, especially if the clock has open-source >> software (or you develop it on your own). >> >> On Tuesday, September 17, 2024 at 8:17:28 PM UTC-7 Chachi88 wrote: >> >>> I am climbing stairs from the foot of the mountain to sit at the feet of >>> all you nixie gurus. >>> >>> What is the current state of the art for remote driver boards? I am >>> aware some of the older drivers are not as reliable or can cause the tubes >>> to degrade quicker. Some of the new options I am seeing have "cathode >>> poisoning prevention" I have recently come upon qty 6 of the NL8091's and >>> their original sockets and socket mounting plate, which I wish to reuse for >>> a clock. Are there any off the shelf boards even capable of driving this >>> tube? I was looking at a board on ebay that comes with an IR remote but it >>> seems too good to be true, I would be willing to spend 5 times as much for >>> a board that was properly documented and put together and had some sort of >>> pedigree... >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any advice or direction you can give. >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bac36066-03e6-4a6e-a83a-69020b75572fn%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bac36066-03e6-4a6e-a83a-69020b75572fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/01b394f6-8ab8-46c6-9287-9ae661b0a6f2n%40googlegroups.com.
