I don't think I have enough tubes to do 3 6-tube clocks.  I am also 
noticing that all the FLW circuits and boards I am finding seem to be 
multiplex drive, which is undesirable from what we have discussed...but I 
would love to be proven wrong.  If not, there might be an opportunity 
here...

Thanks again y'all.
On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-4 MichaelB wrote:

> I do. Still 5 or so in stock. Thanks Nick
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 8:26:10 AM UTC-7 Nicholas Stock wrote:
>
>> There's always the MOD_6 in case you're not familiar with it... I believe 
>> Michael may have some left?
>>
>> http://badnixie.com/Badnixie.com_Welcome.html
>>
>> @Michael Barile ?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 8:05 AM Chachi88 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Richard,
>>>
>>> Thanks I will PM
>>>
>>> gregebert,
>>>
>>> Funny you should mention the B7971, in this lot with the NL8091s I also 
>>> received an armload of these tubes (they actually have the same socket), 
>>> funnily enough...  You wouldn't happen to have a FLW clock design using 
>>> your circuitry available? That will be next on my hit-list and I will need 
>>> kits to make 3 clocks (one will be a gift to the person who gave me all 
>>> these tubes).
>>>
>>> Thanks so much for your help, folks.
>>> On Thursday, September 19, 2024 at 2:32:49 AM UTC-4 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think I have some info at nixology.uk under the PRISM-18 project 
>>>> page.
>>>>
>>>> Full NTP Sync (clock needs wifi), web gui, pir activation, 
>>>> etc/etc/
>>>>
>>>> PM me for any more info.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  - Richard
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday 18 September 2024 at 21:33:00 UTC+1 Chachi88 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> First off, thank you guys very much for your input here, I will 
>>>>> address them most recent to oldest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter,
>>>>> I apologize I cannot view this link I do not use facebook.  I also 
>>>>> cannot find a link to Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB that you mention.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicholas Stock,
>>>>> Thanks a lot for showing me this website, I had come across it also, 
>>>>> but was discouraged by the "sold out" notification for this board.  Is 
>>>>> there any way I can message the seller, you think?  I really like all the 
>>>>> features this board has already implemented for me...but maybe greg's 
>>>>> first 
>>>>> comment is calling my name...
>>>>>
>>>>> gregebert,
>>>>> Thanks for the very informative points, I have addressed my responses 
>>>>> and followup questions individually below in *Italics.*
>>>>>
>>>>> #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. Some 
>>>>> of them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or remove 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or putting 
>>>>> stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into the PCB, 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> the force to insert/remove tubes is very low.
>>>>> *Point taken, I will look at my sockets carefully before considering 
>>>>> using them.  Otherwise I will probably borrow your idea, cheers.*
>>>>>
>>>>> #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, and 
>>>>> there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars apiece 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing requires 
>>>>> higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime.
>>>>> *This is what I have understood as well, thanks for confirming.*
>>>>>
>>>>> #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the recommended 
>>>>> spec value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low and you risk 
>>>>> cathode poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but as the 
>>>>> anode 
>>>>> voltage varies, so does the current (no such problem with a current 
>>>>> regulator, though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode supply 
>>>>> voltage and larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted energy. 
>>>>> As 
>>>>> tubes age, their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher anode 
>>>>> voltage will help mitigate this.
>>>>> *Understood, is this implemented a current regulator per tube or is 
>>>>> this a single current regulator?  If single current regulator, how do you 
>>>>> account for possibly having varying current with different digit 
>>>>> activation? or am I missing an operating principle here?*
>>>>>
>>>>> #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch them.
>>>>> *This will definitely be part of the overall clock design (also 
>>>>> incorporating a Noritake Itron 20 character 5x7 VFD).  I plan on having a 
>>>>> smoked plexiglass case housing the electronics and VFD while mounting the 
>>>>> nixie tubes on top. Which leads on to our next point...*
>>>>>
>>>>> #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough 
>>>>> ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs I 
>>>>> have 
>>>>> a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor 
>>>>> critical 
>>>>> temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm.
>>>>> *If the tubes are always going to be high up in the air (on a 
>>>>> dedicated wall shelf), is casing them necessary? Could not casing them 
>>>>> cause convection heat to rise around them and risk stressing the glass?  
>>>>> The thermal sensor is a good idea, for the inside of my case I will 
>>>>> certainly implement this, probably in multiple spots as you suggested.  
>>>>> Do 
>>>>> people ever put thermocouples on the tubes themselves to monitor heat or 
>>>>> could you see value in it?  I might consider that in my design.*
>>>>>
>>>>> #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes.
>>>>> *This is not the first time I have read of depoisoning (a common 
>>>>> feature on most bonafide driver boards I have seen). I have also seen 
>>>>> there 
>>>>> are different marketed techniques for depoisoning: slot machine, strobe, 
>>>>> etc...*
>>>>> *What are the principles behind cathode poisoning and the theory of 
>>>>> prevention? If this has already been documented somewhere please give me 
>>>>> strength on my journey you send me on.*
>>>>>
>>>>> #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of my 
>>>>> clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. Others have 
>>>>> reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic value, 
>>>>> though 
>>>>> I'm not fond of it.
>>>>> *I tend to agree with you, for me, this was considered aesthetically 
>>>>> not necessary, but if there is value in ensuring operation, I will plan 
>>>>> on 
>>>>> incorporating this in the design even if it is left partially implemented 
>>>>> in hardware or neglected in software...*
>>>>>
>>>>> That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always lots 
>>>>> of other features that can be done, especially if the clock has 
>>>>> open-source 
>>>>> software (or you develop it on your own).
>>>>>
>>>>> *Thank you again sincerely for expounding this much on this, I in the 
>>>>> end, I am hoping to find a clock/driver board with open source software 
>>>>> or 
>>>>> just raw signal input pins exposed that way I can incorporate it in with 
>>>>> my 
>>>>> VFD with minimal additional effort expounded on the nixie driver block 
>>>>> (because it has already been done probably way better than I would do it 
>>>>> on 
>>>>> a first pass).  I can then address it, animate it, etc. with a 
>>>>> microcontroller of my own...*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 11:05:11 AM UTC-4 Nicholas Stock 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete also has a remote driver system that will work with B8091s... 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 18, 2024, at 07:16, Peter Doroba <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the clock I made using Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/142414439207058/search/?q=b-8091
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 12:41:14 AM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those are very valuable tubes, so if you are willing to design your 
>>>>>>> own driver and the PC board, I would do that. I've made several clocks 
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> never had a design problem that affected the tubes. Even if you find a 
>>>>>>> board to purchase, see if any of the following apply:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of my suggestions:
>>>>>>> #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. 
>>>>>>> Some of them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or 
>>>>>>> remove 
>>>>>>> the tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or 
>>>>>>> putting stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> PCB, and the force to insert/remove tubes is very low.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, and 
>>>>>>> there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars apiece 
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing requires 
>>>>>>> higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the recommended 
>>>>>>> spec value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low and you risk 
>>>>>>> cathode poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but as the 
>>>>>>> anode 
>>>>>>> voltage varies, so does the current (no such problem with a current 
>>>>>>> regulator, though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode 
>>>>>>> supply 
>>>>>>> voltage and larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted 
>>>>>>> energy. As 
>>>>>>> tubes age, their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher 
>>>>>>> anode 
>>>>>>> voltage will help mitigate this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough 
>>>>>>> ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs I 
>>>>>>> have 
>>>>>>> a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor 
>>>>>>> critical 
>>>>>>> temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of my 
>>>>>>> clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. Others 
>>>>>>> have 
>>>>>>> reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic value, 
>>>>>>> though 
>>>>>>> I'm not fond of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always 
>>>>>>> lots of other features that can be done, especially if the clock has 
>>>>>>> open-source software (or you develop it on your own).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2024 at 8:17:28 PM UTC-7 Chachi88 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am climbing stairs from the foot of the mountain to sit at the 
>>>>>>>> feet of all you nixie gurus.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is the current state of the art for remote driver boards?  I 
>>>>>>>> am aware some of the older drivers are not as reliable or can cause 
>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>> tubes to degrade quicker.  Some of the new options I am seeing have 
>>>>>>>> "cathode poisoning prevention"  I have recently come upon qty 6 of the 
>>>>>>>> NL8091's and their original sockets and socket mounting plate, which I 
>>>>>>>> wish 
>>>>>>>> to reuse for a clock. Are there any off the shelf boards even capable 
>>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>>> driving this tube?  I was looking at a board on ebay that comes with 
>>>>>>>> an IR 
>>>>>>>> remote but it seems too good to be true, I would be willing to spend 5 
>>>>>>>> times as much for a board that was properly documented and put 
>>>>>>>> together and 
>>>>>>>> had some sort of pedigree...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for any advice or direction you can give.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
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>>>>>>  
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bac36066-03e6-4a6e-a83a-69020b75572fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>>>>>>
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