Nick, This design uses a multiplex scheme, which as discussed is considered undesirable as it impacts tube life. I have seen this design but am looking for a direct drive alternative. I am seeing that there is a "smartsocket" that supports this tube...interesting.
Thanks On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 3:42:55 PM UTC-4 Nicholas Stock wrote: > https://www.thomasnixie.com/the-gps-flw-nixie-clock > > Still available without tubes etc if you're interested... > > Nick > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 12:31 PM Chachi88 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I don't think I have enough tubes to do 3 6-tube clocks. I am also >> noticing that all the FLW circuits and boards I am finding seem to be >> multiplex drive, which is undesirable from what we have discussed...but I >> would love to be proven wrong. If not, there might be an opportunity >> here... >> >> Thanks again y'all. >> On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-4 MichaelB wrote: >> >>> I do. Still 5 or so in stock. Thanks Nick >>> >>> On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 8:26:10 AM UTC-7 Nicholas Stock wrote: >>> >>>> There's always the MOD_6 in case you're not familiar with it... I >>>> believe Michael may have some left? >>>> >>>> http://badnixie.com/Badnixie.com_Welcome.html >>>> >>>> @Michael Barile ? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 8:05 AM Chachi88 <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Richard, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks I will PM >>>>> >>>>> gregebert, >>>>> >>>>> Funny you should mention the B7971, in this lot with the NL8091s I >>>>> also received an armload of these tubes (they actually have the same >>>>> socket), funnily enough... You wouldn't happen to have a FLW clock >>>>> design >>>>> using your circuitry available? That will be next on my hit-list and I >>>>> will >>>>> need kits to make 3 clocks (one will be a gift to the person who gave me >>>>> all these tubes). >>>>> >>>>> Thanks so much for your help, folks. >>>>> On Thursday, September 19, 2024 at 2:32:49 AM UTC-4 Richard Scales >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think I have some info at nixology.uk under the PRISM-18 project >>>>>> page. >>>>>> >>>>>> Full NTP Sync (clock needs wifi), web gui, pir activation, >>>>>> etc/etc/ >>>>>> >>>>>> PM me for any more info. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - Richard >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday 18 September 2024 at 21:33:00 UTC+1 Chachi88 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> First off, thank you guys very much for your input here, I will >>>>>>> address them most recent to oldest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter, >>>>>>> I apologize I cannot view this link I do not use facebook. I also >>>>>>> cannot find a link to Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB that you mention. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nicholas Stock, >>>>>>> Thanks a lot for showing me this website, I had come across it also, >>>>>>> but was discouraged by the "sold out" notification for this board. Is >>>>>>> there any way I can message the seller, you think? I really like all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> features this board has already implemented for me...but maybe greg's >>>>>>> first >>>>>>> comment is calling my name... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> gregebert, >>>>>>> Thanks for the very informative points, I have addressed my >>>>>>> responses and followup questions individually below in *Italics.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. >>>>>>> Some of them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or >>>>>>> remove >>>>>>> the tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or >>>>>>> putting stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> PCB, and the force to insert/remove tubes is very low. >>>>>>> *Point taken, I will look at my sockets carefully before considering >>>>>>> using them. Otherwise I will probably borrow your idea, cheers.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, and >>>>>>> there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars apiece >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing requires >>>>>>> higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime. >>>>>>> *This is what I have understood as well, thanks for confirming.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the recommended >>>>>>> spec value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low and you risk >>>>>>> cathode poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but as the >>>>>>> anode >>>>>>> voltage varies, so does the current (no such problem with a current >>>>>>> regulator, though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode >>>>>>> supply >>>>>>> voltage and larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted >>>>>>> energy. As >>>>>>> tubes age, their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher >>>>>>> anode >>>>>>> voltage will help mitigate this. >>>>>>> *Understood, is this implemented a current regulator per tube or is >>>>>>> this a single current regulator? If single current regulator, how do >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> account for possibly having varying current with different digit >>>>>>> activation? or am I missing an operating principle here?* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch them. >>>>>>> *This will definitely be part of the overall clock design (also >>>>>>> incorporating a Noritake Itron 20 character 5x7 VFD). I plan on having >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> smoked plexiglass case housing the electronics and VFD while mounting >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> nixie tubes on top. Which leads on to our next point...* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough >>>>>>> ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs I >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor >>>>>>> critical >>>>>>> temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm. >>>>>>> *If the tubes are always going to be high up in the air (on a >>>>>>> dedicated wall shelf), is casing them necessary? Could not casing them >>>>>>> cause convection heat to rise around them and risk stressing the glass? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The thermal sensor is a good idea, for the inside of my case I will >>>>>>> certainly implement this, probably in multiple spots as you suggested. >>>>>>> Do >>>>>>> people ever put thermocouples on the tubes themselves to monitor heat >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> could you see value in it? I might consider that in my design.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes. >>>>>>> *This is not the first time I have read of depoisoning (a common >>>>>>> feature on most bonafide driver boards I have seen). I have also seen >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> are different marketed techniques for depoisoning: slot machine, >>>>>>> strobe, >>>>>>> etc...* >>>>>>> *What are the principles behind cathode poisoning and the theory of >>>>>>> prevention? If this has already been documented somewhere please give >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> strength on my journey you send me on.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of my >>>>>>> clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. Others >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic value, >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> I'm not fond of it. >>>>>>> *I tend to agree with you, for me, this was considered aesthetically >>>>>>> not necessary, but if there is value in ensuring operation, I will plan >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> incorporating this in the design even if it is left partially >>>>>>> implemented >>>>>>> in hardware or neglected in software...* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always >>>>>>> lots of other features that can be done, especially if the clock has >>>>>>> open-source software (or you develop it on your own). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Thank you again sincerely for expounding this much on this, I in >>>>>>> the end, I am hoping to find a clock/driver board with open source >>>>>>> software >>>>>>> or just raw signal input pins exposed that way I can incorporate it in >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> my VFD with minimal additional effort expounded on the nixie driver >>>>>>> block >>>>>>> (because it has already been done probably way better than I would do >>>>>>> it on >>>>>>> a first pass). I can then address it, animate it, etc. with a >>>>>>> microcontroller of my own...* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 11:05:11 AM UTC-4 Nicholas Stock >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pete also has a remote driver system that will work with B8091s... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 18, 2024, at 07:16, Peter Doroba <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is the clock I made using Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/142414439207058/search/?q=b-8091 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 12:41:14 AM UTC-4 gregebert >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Those are very valuable tubes, so if you are willing to design >>>>>>>>> your own driver and the PC board, I would do that. I've made several >>>>>>>>> clocks >>>>>>>>> and never had a design problem that affected the tubes. Even if you >>>>>>>>> find a >>>>>>>>> board to purchase, see if any of the following apply: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some of my suggestions: >>>>>>>>> #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. >>>>>>>>> Some of them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or >>>>>>>>> remove >>>>>>>>> the tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or >>>>>>>>> putting stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> PCB, and the force to insert/remove tubes is very low. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, >>>>>>>>> and there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars >>>>>>>>> apiece >>>>>>>>> and the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing >>>>>>>>> requires >>>>>>>>> higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the >>>>>>>>> recommended spec value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low >>>>>>>>> and you >>>>>>>>> risk cathode poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but >>>>>>>>> as the >>>>>>>>> anode voltage varies, so does the current (no such problem with a >>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>> regulator, though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode >>>>>>>>> supply >>>>>>>>> voltage and larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted >>>>>>>>> energy. As >>>>>>>>> tubes age, their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher >>>>>>>>> anode >>>>>>>>> voltage will help mitigate this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough >>>>>>>>> ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs >>>>>>>>> I have >>>>>>>>> a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor >>>>>>>>> critical >>>>>>>>> temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of >>>>>>>>> my clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. >>>>>>>>> Others >>>>>>>>> have reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic >>>>>>>>> value, >>>>>>>>> though I'm not fond of it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always >>>>>>>>> lots of other features that can be done, especially if the clock has >>>>>>>>> open-source software (or you develop it on your own). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2024 at 8:17:28 PM UTC-7 Chachi88 wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am climbing stairs from the foot of the mountain to sit at the >>>>>>>>>> feet of all you nixie gurus. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What is the current state of the art for remote driver boards? I >>>>>>>>>> am aware some of the older drivers are not as reliable or can cause >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> tubes to degrade quicker. Some of the new options I am seeing have >>>>>>>>>> "cathode poisoning prevention" I have recently come upon qty 6 of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> NL8091's and their original sockets and socket mounting plate, which >>>>>>>>>> I wish >>>>>>>>>> to reuse for a clock. Are there any off the shelf boards even >>>>>>>>>> capable of >>>>>>>>>> driving this tube? I was looking at a board on ebay that comes with >>>>>>>>>> an IR >>>>>>>>>> remote but it seems too good to be true, I would be willing to spend >>>>>>>>>> 5 >>>>>>>>>> times as much for a board that was properly documented and put >>>>>>>>>> together and >>>>>>>>>> had some sort of pedigree... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for any advice or direction you can give. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bac36066-03e6-4a6e-a83a-69020b75572fn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bac36066-03e6-4a6e-a83a-69020b75572fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/24034a0a-3836-4449-9693-1eb861b77570n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/24034a0a-3836-4449-9693-1eb861b77570n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "neonixie-l" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/6c53bfce-70bc-406b-8b68-04bb086d14a8n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/6c53bfce-70bc-406b-8b68-04bb086d14a8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/89307466-2c08-483e-8cfb-73abd5dc7b35n%40googlegroups.com.
