Richard, Thanks I will PM
gregebert, Funny you should mention the B7971, in this lot with the NL8091s I also received an armload of these tubes (they actually have the same socket), funnily enough... You wouldn't happen to have a FLW clock design using your circuitry available? That will be next on my hit-list and I will need kits to make 3 clocks (one will be a gift to the person who gave me all these tubes). Thanks so much for your help, folks. On Thursday, September 19, 2024 at 2:32:49 AM UTC-4 Richard Scales wrote: > I think I have some info at nixology.uk under the PRISM-18 project page. > > Full NTP Sync (clock needs wifi), web gui, pir activation, > etc/etc/ > > PM me for any more info. > > > - Richard > > On Wednesday 18 September 2024 at 21:33:00 UTC+1 Chachi88 wrote: > >> First off, thank you guys very much for your input here, I will address >> them most recent to oldest. >> >> Peter, >> I apologize I cannot view this link I do not use facebook. I also cannot >> find a link to Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB that you mention. >> >> Nicholas Stock, >> Thanks a lot for showing me this website, I had come across it also, but >> was discouraged by the "sold out" notification for this board. Is there >> any way I can message the seller, you think? I really like all the >> features this board has already implemented for me...but maybe greg's first >> comment is calling my name... >> >> gregebert, >> Thanks for the very informative points, I have addressed my responses and >> followup questions individually below in *Italics.* >> >> #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. Some of >> them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or remove the >> tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or putting >> stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into the PCB, and >> the force to insert/remove tubes is very low. >> *Point taken, I will look at my sockets carefully before considering >> using them. Otherwise I will probably borrow your idea, cheers.* >> >> #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, and >> there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars apiece and >> the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing requires >> higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime. >> *This is what I have understood as well, thanks for confirming.* >> >> #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the recommended spec >> value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low and you risk cathode >> poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but as the anode voltage >> varies, so does the current (no such problem with a current regulator, >> though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode supply voltage and >> larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted energy. As tubes age, >> their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher anode voltage will >> help mitigate this. >> *Understood, is this implemented a current regulator per tube or is this >> a single current regulator? If single current regulator, how do you >> account for possibly having varying current with different digit >> activation? or am I missing an operating principle here?* >> >> #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch them. >> *This will definitely be part of the overall clock design (also >> incorporating a Noritake Itron 20 character 5x7 VFD). I plan on having a >> smoked plexiglass case housing the electronics and VFD while mounting the >> nixie tubes on top. Which leads on to our next point...* >> >> #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough >> ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs I have >> a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor critical >> temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm. >> *If the tubes are always going to be high up in the air (on a dedicated >> wall shelf), is casing them necessary? Could not casing them cause >> convection heat to rise around them and risk stressing the glass? The >> thermal sensor is a good idea, for the inside of my case I will certainly >> implement this, probably in multiple spots as you suggested. Do people >> ever put thermocouples on the tubes themselves to monitor heat or could you >> see value in it? I might consider that in my design.* >> >> #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes. >> *This is not the first time I have read of depoisoning (a common feature >> on most bonafide driver boards I have seen). I have also seen there are >> different marketed techniques for depoisoning: slot machine, strobe, etc...* >> *What are the principles behind cathode poisoning and the theory of >> prevention? If this has already been documented somewhere please give me >> strength on my journey you send me on.* >> >> #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of my >> clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. Others have >> reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic value, though >> I'm not fond of it. >> *I tend to agree with you, for me, this was considered aesthetically not >> necessary, but if there is value in ensuring operation, I will plan on >> incorporating this in the design even if it is left partially implemented >> in hardware or neglected in software...* >> >> That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always lots of >> other features that can be done, especially if the clock has open-source >> software (or you develop it on your own). >> >> *Thank you again sincerely for expounding this much on this, I in the >> end, I am hoping to find a clock/driver board with open source software or >> just raw signal input pins exposed that way I can incorporate it in with my >> VFD with minimal additional effort expounded on the nixie driver block >> (because it has already been done probably way better than I would do it on >> a first pass). I can then address it, animate it, etc. with a >> microcontroller of my own...* >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 11:05:11 AM UTC-4 Nicholas Stock >> wrote: >> >>> Pete also has a remote driver system that will work with B8091s... >>> >>> https://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43 >>> >>> Nick >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 18, 2024, at 07:16, Peter Doroba <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> This is the clock I made using Richard Scales B-8091 clock PCB. >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/142414439207058/search/?q=b-8091 >>> >>> On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 12:41:14 AM UTC-4 gregebert wrote: >>> >>>> Those are very valuable tubes, so if you are willing to design your own >>>> driver and the PC board, I would do that. I've made several clocks and >>>> never had a design problem that affected the tubes. Even if you find a >>>> board to purchase, see if any of the following apply: >>>> >>>> Some of my suggestions: >>>> #1. I dont like sockets because they put stress on the tube pins. Some >>>> of them grip the pins very hard and it's difficult to insert or remove the >>>> tubes, which adds to the risk of bending or breaking the pins or putting >>>> stress on the glass. Instead, I use socket pins soldered into the PCB, and >>>> the force to insert/remove tubes is very low. >>>> >>>> #2. Direct drive. There's no need to multiplex individual tubes, and >>>> there's no cost benefit when tubes are worth hundreds of dollars apiece >>>> and >>>> the drive electronics is at most a few dollars. Multiplexing requires >>>> higher current, and that degrades the tube's lifetime. >>>> >>>> #3. Use a current regulator, and set the current at the recommended >>>> spec value; too high and you wear-out the tube. Too low and you risk >>>> cathode poisoning. A single anode resistor per-tube is OK, but as the >>>> anode >>>> voltage varies, so does the current (no such problem with a current >>>> regulator, though). You can mitigate this by using a higher anode supply >>>> voltage and larger anode resistor, at the expense of more wasted energy. >>>> As >>>> tubes age, their striking voltage may increase, so having a higher anode >>>> voltage will help mitigate this. >>>> >>>> #4. PIR sensor. Turn off the tubes if nobody is there to watch them. >>>> >>>> #5. Protect the tubes inside a case, and make sure there is enough >>>> ventilation so the heat doesn't build-up inside. On my later designs I >>>> have >>>> a thermal sensor (sometimes several) so that software can monitor critical >>>> temperatures and shutdown if things get too warm. >>>> >>>> #6. Depoisoning routine to exercise all cathodes. >>>> >>>> #7. Backlighting (or base lighting). I havn't done this on any of my >>>> clocks, and I've never had problems with tubes not firing-up. Others have >>>> reported problems without backlighting. It can have aesthetic value, >>>> though >>>> I'm not fond of it. >>>> >>>> That should cover the necessities for the tubes; there are always lots >>>> of other features that can be done, especially if the clock has >>>> open-source >>>> software (or you develop it on your own). >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2024 at 8:17:28 PM UTC-7 Chachi88 wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am climbing stairs from the foot of the mountain to sit at the feet >>>>> of all you nixie gurus. >>>>> >>>>> What is the current state of the art for remote driver boards? I am >>>>> aware some of the older drivers are not as reliable or can cause the >>>>> tubes >>>>> to degrade quicker. Some of the new options I am seeing have "cathode >>>>> poisoning prevention" I have recently come upon qty 6 of the NL8091's >>>>> and >>>>> their original sockets and socket mounting plate, which I wish to reuse >>>>> for >>>>> a clock. Are there any off the shelf boards even capable of driving this >>>>> tube? I was looking at a board on ebay that comes with an IR remote but >>>>> it >>>>> seems too good to be true, I would be willing to spend 5 times as much >>>>> for >>>>> a board that was properly documented and put together and had some sort >>>>> of >>>>> pedigree... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance for any advice or direction you can give. >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bac36066-03e6-4a6e-a83a-69020b75572fn%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/bac36066-03e6-4a6e-a83a-69020b75572fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/24034a0a-3836-4449-9693-1eb861b77570n%40googlegroups.com.
