Yes. Raspberry Pi's are a very interesting platform. Cheap and powerful, I have one myself and use it for prototypes. Then can also be maintained with a solar panel and a cheap battery.
There is also the TP-Link WR703N that can be bought for about €18 on dx.comor aliexpress.com. They are not so powerful but still, they are a complete embedded solution with radio and USB port. Power consumption is very very low. On 12 July 2013 18:31, Brian Degger <[email protected]> wrote: > I am following the arguments, and enjoying its constructive critique. > Not technical, but interested. > Sdcard s with rpi compat distros would be nice. Can give them to > neighbours. > Cheers b > On 12 Jul 2013 17:22, "Carlos Ferreira" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On 12 July 2013 16:00, Yussi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Don't be so fucking judgemental, >>> So I, like many other sheeple use this crappy app. If you don't, good >>> on you. without facebook, none of my friends would know how to use >>> gpg, without facebook none of my friends would use linux,without FB >>> none of them would use TOR, without facebook i wouldn't know where the >>> best parties are tomorrow, We even outed an undercover cop on facebook. >>> >>> but there is only this much i can do, I cannot move all of them to >>> diaspora, I cannot make someone who doesn't want to spend the effort >>> learning, but I sure as hell can make them understand the implications >>> of using it, I can make them understand why they shouldn't put >>> identifying information on it, I cannot make them stop. >>> >>> I can explain how to manage separate email accounts, how to designate >>> activities, how not to get caught, but to most people, computers are >>> black boxes, magical machines which they depend on, but do not >>> understand at the slightest. >>> >>> It's a sad situation when the techies spend large amounts of time >>> making things as simple as possible, for people, who perhaps should >>> not be using computers at all, but due to the course taken by society >>> do all of their work and leisure on them. >>> >>> Now all of them at some point took the effort and learned to use >>> windows (or mac), anyone who knows that could operate a linux machine, >>> yet only few dare try. Do you think I have a chance in hell to >>> convince any of my neighbours to use netsukuku (assuming we brought it >>> up to speed)? Why should they? and if they do, does that mean they >>> have to switch to linux? One by one I'm moving them away from >>> proprietary software, none of them have yet to revert back to it. >>> >>> We are facing a serious problem, part of the job of ntk and other >>> similar technologies is to set up an infrastructure that will make an >>> internet blackout impossible, however, while the internet works, >>> non-techie users would not bother trying meshing. the day it goes >>> black we'll have everyone running to us for help, and it would be very >>> difficult to connect to the outside world because there is no >>> infrastructure. >>> >>> If we want to convince people that it's worth the effort, we need to >>> come up with a killer app, something you cannot do, or not do as well >>> without a mesh (ntk or otherwise). >>> >>> Here is how i want to do my setup: >>> On the router i want to have two wireless networks, one managed, one >>> ad-hoc. >>> >>> When connecting to the managed, you get a landing page where you can >>> download ntk, with a brief explanation on what it is and how to >>> install it. you can than press OK and start to surf the net, all >>> outwards traffic should go through TOR. >>> >>> When connecting to the ad-hoc, and then using a browser, you also get >>> a landing page, with some programs which use ntk, and a directory of >>> local services, things like bulletin board, TOR&I2P&gnunet&... >>> gateways, locally based facebook alternative, a phone system >>> alternative to skype etc. >>> >>> I obviously need to limit bandwidth, but that's not a problem. >>> I understand that I2P/cjd/gnunet also have some wireless mesh >>> solution, but i am not sure how these work (except for cjd which is >>> like ntk just an adhoc network). gnunet's layer 2 sound pretty >>> awesome, in fact i think i understand why i was seeing all these >>> connections on my local network from it, and that this is the designed >>> behaviour, so i would return to using it as well. >>> >>> This is all a bit of a mess, but at this stage, gnunet seems like a >>> really nice solution, and as i was saying before, i think the more >>> alternatives there are out there, the better, if that means that with >>> time we'll choose to abandon ntk for something better than so be it. >>> >>> I am wondering if AlpT is still here, and if his opinion of the >>> viability of ntk has changed, A short google reveals that he is now a >>> professor of mathematics, and although he's been uninvolved for many >>> years now, he is the one who truly understands the ins and outs out >>> the routing algorithm, something that I can't say I entirely do. (I >>> think I get the general idea, but I don't think I know the >>> mathematical implications of the path finding algorithms as much as he >>> does, or as much as I would like to) >>> >> >> Last time I checked his LinkedIn profile, he was pursuing his PhD for the >> last two years at Cambridge but he has not yet achieved that. I believe >> that he has moved on from Ntk. >> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=61989923&locale=en_US&trk=tyah2 >> >> >>> >>> On 12/07/13 13:39, Carlos Ferreira wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 12 July 2013 12:01, <[email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> > >>> > First of all, let it be philosophical. Software is not only about >>> > technical stuff, otherwise, why don't we code free drivers for >>> > nuclear weapons? We are (or should be) human, not robots. >>> > >>> > As I said before (it was me with a missconfiguratin in .muttrc) >>> > start by changing yourself. If you can't get out of facebook non of >>> > your friends will. The best (even the only) way of changing >>> > people's minds is being an example to them. Want to get your >>> > friends out of facebook? Get out of it. And stay firm. If you >>> > really believe that people should stop using facebook, why the hell >>> > do you go back to it? Are you a sheep following the mass like most >>> > of the people? Only dead fish follow the current. >>> > >>> > >>> > I only use Facebook to stay in contact with some friends. I more of >>> > a IM guy with a gigantic contact list that has been kept over the >>> > years. This is my main way to stay in contact with friends that are >>> > far away. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I've had to fight against the fucking Winbugs almost-monopoly in >>> > the 3 years I've spent at university, because teachers didn't use >>> > Linux and didn't want to learn alternatives to the software they >>> > were used to teach. But I stayed firm and refused to use winbugs at >>> > all, and in the end I even got other 3 mates to change to >>> > GNU/Linux, just by being a fucking example to them. I didn't even >>> > need to talk shit about winbugs, I just used Linux. >>> > >>> > >>> > Good for you. At my university we are all Linux because it is >>> > impossible to do what we do with Windows (and I mean, work with >>> > network protocols). Despite that, I still use Windows for other >>> > things (Office and stuff) Why? Because its a job requirement and my >>> > co-workers use it and prefer to use it. I respect that and I have >>> > adapted to the situation. I have no problem in working in a windows >>> > environment if required and I don't bitch about it. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > You ain't changing nothing talking to people if you don't change >>> > yourself. If you want change, Do It Yourself. It's hard as fuck, >>> > yeah, but sacrifice is what makes things valuable. >>> > >>> > Whatever you said about anarcho-capitalism I don't care, I'm plain >>> > anarchist. >>> > >>> > >>> > I respect that. Its an ideology. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I don't know what momentum you're talking about because there is >>> > none right now. Be patient. Netsukuku is not like Tor or I2P. It's >>> > seeks something similar, but in a way more difficult way, so it's >>> > normal that it's more difficult to make people use it, but just >>> > keep working, and using it yourself. And close that damn facebook >>> > account, I bet you don't need it at all. >>> > >>> > >>> > Like I said, I use facebook to keep in contact with friends. I >>> > adapted to the situation and because of that, I maintained the >>> > contact. I have no problem in using Facebook. >>> > >>> > >>> > This is not a question about us or about us changing the world. >>> > Its about other people wanting to change. You cannot expect other >>> > people to go after a new thing (netsukuku) just because its >>> > considered by a few "the right way to go". The people need to enter >>> > such system voluntarily otherwise they will just be dragging >>> > themselves. Its like choosing "the red pill" when in fact, they >>> > want "the blue pill", but they just don't know yet because they >>> > don't really know "how deep the rabbit hole goes..." The change >>> > must be shown first so that the will makes the change from within. >>> > >>> > Also, these people are not sheeps, they are persons just like us, >>> > it just happens that they have different interests and different >>> > priorities. We should also respect that. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- Gdrooid >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:24:31AM +0100, Carlos Ferreira wrote: >>> >> Ok this thread is starting to get philosophical but let me try >>> >> to >>> > put it the >>> >> technical path. >>> >> >>> >> Convincing people to change is very difficult because of the >>> > resistance and >>> >> drag effect. Take a look at what happened with G+ and Facebook. >>> >> G+ >>> > is a total >>> >> failure for the simple fact that very little people were using >>> >> it. >>> > I use >>> >> Facebook and I have a G+ account that I never use. Why? Because >>> >> my >>> > friends are >>> >> at Facebook. The more friends I have on facebook the more >>> > difficult it is for >>> >> me to change to G+ simply because none of my friends are there. >>> > Even if I >>> >> manage to convince some of them to change, the time effect will >>> > undo-it simply >>> >> because they end up changing back to Facebook because most of >>> > their friends are >>> >> using Facebook. >>> >> >>> >> It's a mesh-effect and the same can be compared to Netsukuku and >>> >> the traditional Internet. In order to establish a gigantic >>> >> network >>> > with netsuku, >>> >> people need to be convinced to at least try and stay for >>> >> awhile, >>> > in order to >>> >> achieve a critical mass that will fight the tendency for people >>> >> to >>> > switch back >>> >> and maintain the users interest in using netsukuku. Its >>> >> basically >>> > the chicken >>> >> and the egg dilemma. Why would anyone want to use netsukuku if >>> >> no >>> > one around is >>> >> using netsukuku? I ask myself what would I need to convince a >>> >> neighbour to join my >>> > netsukuku >>> >> piece of network. I would need to convince him to buy a decent >>> > router (€€€), >>> >> convince him that he would be able to do at least some of the >>> > things that he >>> >> does on the internet (difficult but achievable) and convince him >>> > to maintain >>> >> it. This is easier for the l33ts of the telecommunications world >>> > but very hard >>> >> to achieve for the rest of the people and face it, there aren't >>> >> many telecommunications l33ts out their. >>> >> >>> >> Even anarcho-capitalists like Jeff Berwick from the Dollar >>> > Vigilante strongly >>> >> support the todays internet mainly because is composed by >>> >> hundreds >>> > of private >>> >> corporations, interconnected amongst themselves. >>> >> >>> >> I think that "spreading the word" is as important as >>> > "writing >>> >> the code". Also, the momentum needs to be kept, otherwise >>> > time will end up >>> >> killing it. -- >>> >> >>> >> Carlos Miguel Ferreira Researcher at Telecommunications >>> >> Institute Aveiro - Portugal Work E-mail - [email protected] >>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> MSN Contact -> [email protected] >>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> Skype & GTalk -> >>> >> [email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >> LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira >>> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing >>> >> list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing >>> > list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > Carlos Miguel Ferreira Researcher at Telecommunications Institute >>> > Aveiro - Portugal Work E-mail - [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> > MSN Contact -> carlosmf.pt <http://carlosmf.pt>@gmail.com >>> > <http://gmail.com> Skype & GTalk -> carlosmf.pt >>> > <http://carlosmf.pt>@gmail.com <http://gmail.com> LinkedIn -> >>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing >>> > list [email protected] >>> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) >>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ >>> >>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJR4Bn9AAoJELGGH8ff/6zf9twIALDL8CmijMM0MZ3fXJ+PExbh >>> R4/5+axqO9XncrgeaD8W4+8qTk6Vlaau3m8vkxZ0No0dbDqOAe0X23y/M2c1KSK6 >>> Nqg6D+UCu1S1EX6V3lpr+CPNh9g1xKOzl/vh2kZ6DUoOBbQEQrt6vtwQypIFPSSC >>> zSr4XU0pYUh/n+HLMC37Ug4M9mv56PPh/O4NulVaZS6KUSx4QsGhaRkoZXpYSRrw >>> Kv6H2HL0KUBzZgoiUaY0xjIcdxCIENinC3aPXNXIuVHamo4uekus/NGqIoQdlIYq >>> P/DFtHQYdhyw+MyhYzbesCn+XpyX8wzUHkd1DOAnUy3+QieI1X7rFY+GRyBSpEo= >>> =5v5v >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netsukuku mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Carlos Miguel Ferreira >> Researcher at Telecommunications Institute >> Aveiro - Portugal >> Work E-mail - [email protected] >> MSN Contact -> [email protected] >> Skype & GTalk -> [email protected] >> LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netsukuku mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Netsukuku mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku > > -- Carlos Miguel Ferreira Researcher at Telecommunications Institute Aveiro - Portugal Work E-mail - [email protected] MSN Contact -> [email protected] Skype & GTalk -> [email protected] LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira
_______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku
