Yes. Raspberry Pi's are a very interesting platform. Cheap and powerful, I
have one myself and use it for prototypes. Then can also be maintained with
a solar panel and a cheap battery.

There is also the TP-Link WR703N that can be bought for about €18 on dx.comor
aliexpress.com. They are not so powerful but still, they are a complete
embedded solution with radio and USB port. Power consumption is very very
low.


On 12 July 2013 18:31, Brian Degger <[email protected]> wrote:

> I am following the arguments, and enjoying its constructive critique.
> Not technical,  but interested.
> Sdcard s with rpi compat distros would be nice. Can give them to
> neighbours.
> Cheers b
>  On 12 Jul 2013 17:22, "Carlos Ferreira" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 July 2013 16:00, Yussi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Don't be so fucking judgemental,
>>> So I, like many other sheeple use this crappy app. If you don't, good
>>> on you. without facebook, none of my friends would know how to use
>>> gpg, without facebook none of my friends would use linux,without FB
>>> none of them would use TOR, without facebook i wouldn't know where the
>>> best parties are tomorrow, We even outed an undercover cop on facebook.
>>>
>>> but there is only this much i can do, I cannot move all of them to
>>> diaspora, I cannot make someone who doesn't want to spend the effort
>>> learning, but I sure as hell can make them understand the implications
>>> of using it, I can make them understand why they shouldn't put
>>> identifying information on it, I cannot make them stop.
>>>
>>> I can explain how to manage separate email accounts, how to designate
>>> activities, how not to get caught, but to most people, computers are
>>> black boxes, magical machines which they depend on, but do not
>>> understand at the slightest.
>>>
>>> It's a sad situation when the techies spend large amounts of time
>>> making things as simple as possible, for people, who perhaps should
>>> not be using computers at all, but due to the course taken by society
>>> do all of their work and leisure on them.
>>>
>>> Now all of them at some point took the effort and learned to use
>>> windows (or mac), anyone who knows that could operate a linux machine,
>>> yet only few dare try. Do you think I have a chance in hell to
>>> convince any of my neighbours to use netsukuku (assuming we brought it
>>> up to speed)? Why should they? and if they do, does that mean they
>>> have to switch to linux? One by one I'm moving them away from
>>> proprietary software, none of them have yet to revert back to it.
>>>
>>> We are facing a serious problem, part of the job of ntk and other
>>> similar technologies is to set up an infrastructure that will make an
>>> internet blackout impossible, however, while the internet works,
>>> non-techie users would not bother trying meshing. the day it goes
>>> black we'll have everyone running to us for help, and it would be very
>>> difficult to connect to the outside world because there is no
>>> infrastructure.
>>>
>>> If we want to convince people that it's worth the effort, we need to
>>> come up with a killer app, something you cannot do, or not do as well
>>> without a mesh (ntk or otherwise).
>>>
>>> Here is how i want to do my setup:
>>> On the router i want to have two wireless networks, one managed, one
>>> ad-hoc.
>>>
>>> When connecting to the managed, you get a landing page where you can
>>> download ntk, with a brief explanation on what it is and how to
>>> install it. you can than press OK and start to surf the net, all
>>> outwards traffic should go through TOR.
>>>
>>> When connecting to the ad-hoc, and then using a browser, you also get
>>> a landing page, with some programs which use ntk, and a directory of
>>> local services, things like bulletin board, TOR&I2P&gnunet&...
>>> gateways, locally based facebook alternative, a phone system
>>> alternative to skype etc.
>>>
>>> I obviously need to limit bandwidth, but that's not a problem.
>>> I understand that I2P/cjd/gnunet also have some wireless mesh
>>> solution, but i am not sure how these work (except for cjd which is
>>> like ntk just an adhoc network). gnunet's layer 2 sound pretty
>>> awesome, in fact i think i understand why i was seeing all these
>>> connections on my local network from it, and that this is the designed
>>> behaviour, so i would return to using it as well.
>>>
>>> This is all a bit of a mess, but at this stage, gnunet seems like a
>>> really nice solution, and as i was saying before, i think the more
>>> alternatives there are out there, the better, if that means that with
>>> time we'll choose to abandon ntk for something better than so be it.
>>>
>>> I am wondering if AlpT is still here, and if his opinion of the
>>> viability of ntk has changed, A short google reveals that he is now a
>>> professor of mathematics, and although he's been uninvolved for many
>>> years now, he is the one who truly understands the ins and outs out
>>> the routing algorithm, something that I can't say I entirely do. (I
>>> think I get the general idea, but I don't think I know the
>>> mathematical implications of the path finding algorithms as much as he
>>> does, or as much as I would like to)
>>>
>>
>> Last time I checked his LinkedIn profile, he was pursuing his PhD for the
>> last two years at Cambridge but he has not yet achieved that. I believe
>> that he has moved on from Ntk.
>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=61989923&locale=en_US&trk=tyah2
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 12/07/13 13:39, Carlos Ferreira wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 12 July 2013 12:01, <[email protected]
>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > First of all, let it be philosophical. Software is not only about
>>> > technical stuff, otherwise, why don't we code free drivers for
>>> > nuclear weapons? We are (or should be) human, not robots.
>>> >
>>> > As I said before (it was me with a missconfiguratin in .muttrc)
>>> > start by changing yourself. If you can't get out of facebook non of
>>> > your friends will. The best (even the only) way of changing
>>> > people's minds is being an example to them. Want to get your
>>> > friends out of facebook? Get out of it. And stay firm. If you
>>> > really believe that people should stop using facebook, why the hell
>>> > do you go back to it? Are you a sheep following the mass like most
>>> > of the people? Only dead fish follow the current.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I only use Facebook to stay in contact with some friends. I more of
>>> > a IM guy with a gigantic contact list that has been kept over the
>>> > years. This is my main way to stay in contact with friends that are
>>> > far away.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I've had to fight against the fucking Winbugs almost-monopoly in
>>> > the 3 years I've spent at university, because teachers didn't use
>>> > Linux and didn't want to learn alternatives to the software they
>>> > were used to teach. But I stayed firm and refused to use winbugs at
>>> > all, and in the end I even got other 3 mates to change to
>>> > GNU/Linux, just by being a fucking example to them. I didn't even
>>> > need to talk shit about winbugs, I just used Linux.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Good for you. At my university we are all Linux because it is
>>> > impossible to do what we do with Windows (and I mean, work with
>>> > network protocols). Despite that, I still use Windows for other
>>> > things (Office and stuff) Why? Because its a job requirement and my
>>> > co-workers use it and prefer to use it. I respect that and I have
>>> > adapted to the situation. I have no problem in working in a windows
>>> > environment if required and I don't bitch about it.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You ain't changing nothing talking to people if you don't change
>>> > yourself. If you want change, Do It Yourself. It's hard as fuck,
>>> > yeah, but sacrifice is what makes things valuable.
>>> >
>>> > Whatever you said about anarcho-capitalism I don't care, I'm plain
>>> > anarchist.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I respect that. Its an ideology.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I don't know what momentum you're talking about because there is
>>> > none right now. Be patient. Netsukuku is not like Tor or I2P. It's
>>> > seeks something similar, but in a way more difficult way, so it's
>>> > normal that it's more difficult to make people use it, but just
>>> > keep working, and using it yourself. And close that damn facebook
>>> > account, I bet you don't need it at all.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Like I said, I use facebook to keep in contact with friends. I
>>> > adapted to the situation and because of that, I maintained the
>>> > contact. I have no problem in using Facebook.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > This is not a question about us or about us changing the world.
>>> > Its about other people wanting to change. You cannot expect other
>>> > people to go after a new thing (netsukuku) just because its
>>> > considered by a few "the right way to go". The people need to enter
>>> > such system voluntarily otherwise they will just be dragging
>>> > themselves. Its like choosing "the red pill" when in fact, they
>>> > want "the blue pill", but they just don't know yet because they
>>> > don't really know "how deep the rabbit hole goes..." The change
>>> > must be shown first so that the will makes the change from within.
>>> >
>>> > Also, these people are not sheeps, they are persons just like us,
>>> > it just happens that they have different interests and different
>>> > priorities. We should also respect that.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- Gdrooid
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:24:31AM +0100, Carlos Ferreira wrote:
>>> >> Ok this thread is starting to get philosophical but let me try
>>> >> to
>>> > put it the
>>> >> technical path.
>>> >>
>>> >> Convincing people to change is very difficult because of the
>>> > resistance and
>>> >> drag effect. Take a look at what happened with G+ and Facebook.
>>> >> G+
>>> > is a total
>>> >> failure for the simple fact that very little people were using
>>> >> it.
>>> > I use
>>> >> Facebook and I have a G+ account that I never use. Why? Because
>>> >> my
>>> > friends are
>>> >> at Facebook. The more friends I have on facebook the more
>>> > difficult it is for
>>> >> me to change to G+ simply because none of my friends are there.
>>> > Even if I
>>> >> manage to convince some of them to change, the time effect will
>>> > undo-it simply
>>> >> because they end up changing back to Facebook because most of
>>> > their friends are
>>> >> using Facebook.
>>> >>
>>> >> It's a mesh-effect and the same can be compared to Netsukuku and
>>> >> the traditional Internet. In order to establish a gigantic
>>> >> network
>>> > with netsuku,
>>> >> people need  to be convinced to at least try and stay for
>>> >> awhile,
>>> > in order to
>>> >> achieve a critical mass that will fight the tendency for people
>>> >> to
>>> > switch back
>>> >> and maintain the users interest in using netsukuku. Its
>>> >> basically
>>> > the chicken
>>> >> and the egg dilemma. Why would anyone want to use netsukuku if
>>> >> no
>>> > one around is
>>> >> using netsukuku? I ask myself what would I need to convince a
>>> >> neighbour to join my
>>> > netsukuku
>>> >> piece of network. I would need to convince him to buy a decent
>>> > router (€€€),
>>> >> convince him that he would be able to do at least some of the
>>> > things that he
>>> >> does on the internet (difficult but achievable) and convince him
>>> > to maintain
>>> >> it. This is easier for the l33ts of the telecommunications world
>>> > but very hard
>>> >> to achieve for the rest of the people and face it, there aren't
>>> >> many telecommunications  l33ts out their.
>>> >>
>>> >> Even anarcho-capitalists like Jeff Berwick from the Dollar
>>> > Vigilante strongly
>>> >> support the todays internet mainly because is composed by
>>> >> hundreds
>>> > of private
>>> >> corporations, interconnected amongst themselves.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think that &quot;spreading the word&quot; is as important as
>>> > &quot;writing
>>> >> the code&quot;. Also, the momentum needs to be kept, otherwise
>>> > time will end up
>>> >> killing it. --
>>> >>
>>> >> Carlos Miguel Ferreira Researcher at Telecommunications
>>> >> Institute Aveiro - Portugal Work E-mail - [email protected]
>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> MSN Contact -> [email protected]
>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> Skype &amp; GTalk ->
>>> >> [email protected]
>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> >> LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira
>>> >
>>> >> _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing
>>> >> list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing
>>> > list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > Carlos Miguel Ferreira Researcher at Telecommunications Institute
>>> > Aveiro - Portugal Work E-mail - [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>> > MSN Contact -> carlosmf.pt <http://carlosmf.pt>@gmail.com
>>> > <http://gmail.com> Skype & GTalk -> carlosmf.pt
>>> > <http://carlosmf.pt>@gmail.com <http://gmail.com> LinkedIn ->
>>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing
>>> > list [email protected]
>>> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku
>>>
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>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Netsukuku mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carlos Miguel Ferreira
>> Researcher at Telecommunications Institute
>> Aveiro - Portugal
>> Work E-mail - [email protected]
>> MSN Contact -> [email protected]
>> Skype & GTalk -> [email protected]
>> LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Netsukuku mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Netsukuku mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku
>
>


-- 

Carlos Miguel Ferreira
Researcher at Telecommunications Institute
Aveiro - Portugal
Work E-mail - [email protected]
MSN Contact -> [email protected]
Skype & GTalk -> [email protected]
LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira
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