thanks for the TP-link link , believe that its good for a collaborative filedrop (cant remember the software used) Asbesto might know :)
On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Carlos Ferreira <[email protected]>wrote: > Yes. Raspberry Pi's are a very interesting platform. Cheap and powerful, I > have one myself and use it for prototypes. Then can also be maintained with > a solar panel and a cheap battery. > > There is also the TP-Link WR703N that can be bought for about €18 on > dx.com or aliexpress.com. They are not so powerful but still, they are a > complete embedded solution with radio and USB port. Power consumption is > very very low. > > > > On 12 July 2013 18:31, Brian Degger <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I am following the arguments, and enjoying its constructive critique. >> Not technical, but interested. >> Sdcard s with rpi compat distros would be nice. Can give them to >> neighbours. >> Cheers b >> On 12 Jul 2013 17:22, "Carlos Ferreira" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12 July 2013 16:00, Yussi <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>> >>>> Don't be so fucking judgemental, >>>> So I, like many other sheeple use this crappy app. If you don't, good >>>> on you. without facebook, none of my friends would know how to use >>>> gpg, without facebook none of my friends would use linux,without FB >>>> none of them would use TOR, without facebook i wouldn't know where the >>>> best parties are tomorrow, We even outed an undercover cop on facebook. >>>> >>>> but there is only this much i can do, I cannot move all of them to >>>> diaspora, I cannot make someone who doesn't want to spend the effort >>>> learning, but I sure as hell can make them understand the implications >>>> of using it, I can make them understand why they shouldn't put >>>> identifying information on it, I cannot make them stop. >>>> >>>> I can explain how to manage separate email accounts, how to designate >>>> activities, how not to get caught, but to most people, computers are >>>> black boxes, magical machines which they depend on, but do not >>>> understand at the slightest. >>>> >>>> It's a sad situation when the techies spend large amounts of time >>>> making things as simple as possible, for people, who perhaps should >>>> not be using computers at all, but due to the course taken by society >>>> do all of their work and leisure on them. >>>> >>>> Now all of them at some point took the effort and learned to use >>>> windows (or mac), anyone who knows that could operate a linux machine, >>>> yet only few dare try. Do you think I have a chance in hell to >>>> convince any of my neighbours to use netsukuku (assuming we brought it >>>> up to speed)? Why should they? and if they do, does that mean they >>>> have to switch to linux? One by one I'm moving them away from >>>> proprietary software, none of them have yet to revert back to it. >>>> >>>> We are facing a serious problem, part of the job of ntk and other >>>> similar technologies is to set up an infrastructure that will make an >>>> internet blackout impossible, however, while the internet works, >>>> non-techie users would not bother trying meshing. the day it goes >>>> black we'll have everyone running to us for help, and it would be very >>>> difficult to connect to the outside world because there is no >>>> infrastructure. >>>> >>>> If we want to convince people that it's worth the effort, we need to >>>> come up with a killer app, something you cannot do, or not do as well >>>> without a mesh (ntk or otherwise). >>>> >>>> Here is how i want to do my setup: >>>> On the router i want to have two wireless networks, one managed, one >>>> ad-hoc. >>>> >>>> When connecting to the managed, you get a landing page where you can >>>> download ntk, with a brief explanation on what it is and how to >>>> install it. you can than press OK and start to surf the net, all >>>> outwards traffic should go through TOR. >>>> >>>> When connecting to the ad-hoc, and then using a browser, you also get >>>> a landing page, with some programs which use ntk, and a directory of >>>> local services, things like bulletin board, TOR&I2P&gnunet&... >>>> gateways, locally based facebook alternative, a phone system >>>> alternative to skype etc. >>>> >>>> I obviously need to limit bandwidth, but that's not a problem. >>>> I understand that I2P/cjd/gnunet also have some wireless mesh >>>> solution, but i am not sure how these work (except for cjd which is >>>> like ntk just an adhoc network). gnunet's layer 2 sound pretty >>>> awesome, in fact i think i understand why i was seeing all these >>>> connections on my local network from it, and that this is the designed >>>> behaviour, so i would return to using it as well. >>>> >>>> This is all a bit of a mess, but at this stage, gnunet seems like a >>>> really nice solution, and as i was saying before, i think the more >>>> alternatives there are out there, the better, if that means that with >>>> time we'll choose to abandon ntk for something better than so be it. >>>> >>>> I am wondering if AlpT is still here, and if his opinion of the >>>> viability of ntk has changed, A short google reveals that he is now a >>>> professor of mathematics, and although he's been uninvolved for many >>>> years now, he is the one who truly understands the ins and outs out >>>> the routing algorithm, something that I can't say I entirely do. (I >>>> think I get the general idea, but I don't think I know the >>>> mathematical implications of the path finding algorithms as much as he >>>> does, or as much as I would like to) >>>> >>> >>> Last time I checked his LinkedIn profile, he was pursuing his PhD for >>> the last two years at Cambridge but he has not yet achieved that. I believe >>> that he has moved on from Ntk. >>> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=61989923&locale=en_US&trk=tyah2 >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On 12/07/13 13:39, Carlos Ferreira wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 12 July 2013 12:01, <[email protected] >>>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > First of all, let it be philosophical. Software is not only about >>>> > technical stuff, otherwise, why don't we code free drivers for >>>> > nuclear weapons? We are (or should be) human, not robots. >>>> > >>>> > As I said before (it was me with a missconfiguratin in .muttrc) >>>> > start by changing yourself. If you can't get out of facebook non of >>>> > your friends will. The best (even the only) way of changing >>>> > people's minds is being an example to them. Want to get your >>>> > friends out of facebook? Get out of it. And stay firm. If you >>>> > really believe that people should stop using facebook, why the hell >>>> > do you go back to it? Are you a sheep following the mass like most >>>> > of the people? Only dead fish follow the current. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I only use Facebook to stay in contact with some friends. I more of >>>> > a IM guy with a gigantic contact list that has been kept over the >>>> > years. This is my main way to stay in contact with friends that are >>>> > far away. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I've had to fight against the fucking Winbugs almost-monopoly in >>>> > the 3 years I've spent at university, because teachers didn't use >>>> > Linux and didn't want to learn alternatives to the software they >>>> > were used to teach. But I stayed firm and refused to use winbugs at >>>> > all, and in the end I even got other 3 mates to change to >>>> > GNU/Linux, just by being a fucking example to them. I didn't even >>>> > need to talk shit about winbugs, I just used Linux. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Good for you. At my university we are all Linux because it is >>>> > impossible to do what we do with Windows (and I mean, work with >>>> > network protocols). Despite that, I still use Windows for other >>>> > things (Office and stuff) Why? Because its a job requirement and my >>>> > co-workers use it and prefer to use it. I respect that and I have >>>> > adapted to the situation. I have no problem in working in a windows >>>> > environment if required and I don't bitch about it. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > You ain't changing nothing talking to people if you don't change >>>> > yourself. If you want change, Do It Yourself. It's hard as fuck, >>>> > yeah, but sacrifice is what makes things valuable. >>>> > >>>> > Whatever you said about anarcho-capitalism I don't care, I'm plain >>>> > anarchist. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I respect that. Its an ideology. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I don't know what momentum you're talking about because there is >>>> > none right now. Be patient. Netsukuku is not like Tor or I2P. It's >>>> > seeks something similar, but in a way more difficult way, so it's >>>> > normal that it's more difficult to make people use it, but just >>>> > keep working, and using it yourself. And close that damn facebook >>>> > account, I bet you don't need it at all. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Like I said, I use facebook to keep in contact with friends. I >>>> > adapted to the situation and because of that, I maintained the >>>> > contact. I have no problem in using Facebook. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > This is not a question about us or about us changing the world. >>>> > Its about other people wanting to change. You cannot expect other >>>> > people to go after a new thing (netsukuku) just because its >>>> > considered by a few "the right way to go". The people need to enter >>>> > such system voluntarily otherwise they will just be dragging >>>> > themselves. Its like choosing "the red pill" when in fact, they >>>> > want "the blue pill", but they just don't know yet because they >>>> > don't really know "how deep the rabbit hole goes..." The change >>>> > must be shown first so that the will makes the change from within. >>>> > >>>> > Also, these people are not sheeps, they are persons just like us, >>>> > it just happens that they have different interests and different >>>> > priorities. We should also respect that. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- Gdrooid >>>> > >>>> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:24:31AM +0100, Carlos Ferreira wrote: >>>> >> Ok this thread is starting to get philosophical but let me try >>>> >> to >>>> > put it the >>>> >> technical path. >>>> >> >>>> >> Convincing people to change is very difficult because of the >>>> > resistance and >>>> >> drag effect. Take a look at what happened with G+ and Facebook. >>>> >> G+ >>>> > is a total >>>> >> failure for the simple fact that very little people were using >>>> >> it. >>>> > I use >>>> >> Facebook and I have a G+ account that I never use. Why? Because >>>> >> my >>>> > friends are >>>> >> at Facebook. The more friends I have on facebook the more >>>> > difficult it is for >>>> >> me to change to G+ simply because none of my friends are there. >>>> > Even if I >>>> >> manage to convince some of them to change, the time effect will >>>> > undo-it simply >>>> >> because they end up changing back to Facebook because most of >>>> > their friends are >>>> >> using Facebook. >>>> >> >>>> >> It's a mesh-effect and the same can be compared to Netsukuku and >>>> >> the traditional Internet. In order to establish a gigantic >>>> >> network >>>> > with netsuku, >>>> >> people need to be convinced to at least try and stay for >>>> >> awhile, >>>> > in order to >>>> >> achieve a critical mass that will fight the tendency for people >>>> >> to >>>> > switch back >>>> >> and maintain the users interest in using netsukuku. Its >>>> >> basically >>>> > the chicken >>>> >> and the egg dilemma. Why would anyone want to use netsukuku if >>>> >> no >>>> > one around is >>>> >> using netsukuku? I ask myself what would I need to convince a >>>> >> neighbour to join my >>>> > netsukuku >>>> >> piece of network. I would need to convince him to buy a decent >>>> > router (€€€), >>>> >> convince him that he would be able to do at least some of the >>>> > things that he >>>> >> does on the internet (difficult but achievable) and convince him >>>> > to maintain >>>> >> it. This is easier for the l33ts of the telecommunications world >>>> > but very hard >>>> >> to achieve for the rest of the people and face it, there aren't >>>> >> many telecommunications l33ts out their. >>>> >> >>>> >> Even anarcho-capitalists like Jeff Berwick from the Dollar >>>> > Vigilante strongly >>>> >> support the todays internet mainly because is composed by >>>> >> hundreds >>>> > of private >>>> >> corporations, interconnected amongst themselves. >>>> >> >>>> >> I think that "spreading the word" is as important as >>>> > "writing >>>> >> the code". Also, the momentum needs to be kept, otherwise >>>> > time will end up >>>> >> killing it. -- >>>> >> >>>> >> Carlos Miguel Ferreira Researcher at Telecommunications >>>> >> Institute Aveiro - Portugal Work E-mail - [email protected] >>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> MSN Contact -> [email protected] >>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]> Skype & GTalk -> >>>> >> [email protected] >>>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >> LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira >>>> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing >>>> >> list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing >>>> > list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > >>>> > Carlos Miguel Ferreira Researcher at Telecommunications Institute >>>> > Aveiro - Portugal Work E-mail - [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> > MSN Contact -> carlosmf.pt <http://carlosmf.pt>@gmail.com >>>> > <http://gmail.com> Skype & GTalk -> carlosmf.pt >>>> > <http://carlosmf.pt>@gmail.com <http://gmail.com> LinkedIn -> >>>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ Netsukuku mailing >>>> > list [email protected] >>>> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) >>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ >>>> >>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJR4Bn9AAoJELGGH8ff/6zf9twIALDL8CmijMM0MZ3fXJ+PExbh >>>> R4/5+axqO9XncrgeaD8W4+8qTk6Vlaau3m8vkxZ0No0dbDqOAe0X23y/M2c1KSK6 >>>> Nqg6D+UCu1S1EX6V3lpr+CPNh9g1xKOzl/vh2kZ6DUoOBbQEQrt6vtwQypIFPSSC >>>> zSr4XU0pYUh/n+HLMC37Ug4M9mv56PPh/O4NulVaZS6KUSx4QsGhaRkoZXpYSRrw >>>> Kv6H2HL0KUBzZgoiUaY0xjIcdxCIENinC3aPXNXIuVHamo4uekus/NGqIoQdlIYq >>>> P/DFtHQYdhyw+MyhYzbesCn+XpyX8wzUHkd1DOAnUy3+QieI1X7rFY+GRyBSpEo= >>>> =5v5v >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netsukuku mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Carlos Miguel Ferreira >>> Researcher at Telecommunications Institute >>> Aveiro - Portugal >>> Work E-mail - [email protected] >>> MSN Contact -> [email protected] >>> Skype & GTalk -> [email protected] >>> LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netsukuku mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netsukuku mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku >> >> > > > -- > > Carlos Miguel Ferreira > Researcher at Telecommunications Institute > Aveiro - Portugal > Work E-mail - [email protected] > MSN Contact -> [email protected] > Skype & GTalk -> [email protected] > LinkedIn -> http://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmferreira > > _______________________________________________ > Netsukuku mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/netsukuku > > -- ---------------------------------------- Brian Degger twitter: @drbrian http://makerspace.org.uk http://transitlab.org ----------------------------------------
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