I doesn't work very well when you have async conversations. On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Steve Strong <[email protected]> wrote:
> As an aside, surely this type of conversation is what Google Wave was > aimed at - whatever happened to that? :) > > > On 03/02/2010 22:20, Fabio Maulo wrote: > > btw my friends... before create too much noise we should have a look to the > past experience... > > For JBoss NH was not a business. > My personal experience with iMeta-NH-Professional support is 0 (zero). > > Perhaps we are talking about how distribute 0U$D... so... YAGNI can be > applied even here, No ? > > 2010/2/3 Davy Brion <[email protected]> > >> +10 >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> and sine when to donate time is different than donate money ? >>> Wasn't Steve's time paid ? >>> Sergej was hired (probably as Steve is a iMeta's employee), sure, and >>> that is a little bit different than donate and receive an invoice. >>> >>> Suppositions: >>> Tomorrow the XYZ company is available to pay 3 months of Richard's time >>> to work in NH. >>> After tomorrow the ZYX company is available to pay 3 weeks of Tuna's time >>> to work in NH. >>> ranlix company is available to spent 3 days of Davy's time to fix >>> something or develop a new feature. >>> >>> My point is that, so far, NH have received donations directly paid to a >>> person with a clear agreement . >>> Everything can continue working in the same way... to manage any kind >>> of amount, for 1U$D up, is not so easy without a real Organization behind >>> the funds. >>> >>> 2010/2/3 Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> >>> >>>> Fabio, >>>> IIRC, Sergej was hired by JBoss, then shortly after put to work on other >>>> things. >>>> iMeta's donation was of time, not money. That makes it easier to >>>> manage. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> What was around one year of Sergej full time development ? >>>>> What was 3 man-moths (or even more) full time development donated by >>>>> iMeta ? >>>>> >>>>> 2010/2/3 Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> Were there any donations >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we take the recent past and no so recent past, of NHibernate >>>>>>> "donations", as example of a possible funds management ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2010/2/3 Davy Brion <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> personally, i don't think the money should go to the committers... >>>>>>>> yeah, we do work on it for free but most of us do it because we _want_ >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> work on it, not because it might someday pay some bills >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> i would vote for spending the money on infrastructure... a faster >>>>>>>> jira server, a faster svn server, things like that... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Steve Strong <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the idea is a great one, particularly the offer to match >>>>>>>>> donations - very kind! I do have a couple of comments - firstly, >>>>>>>>> whenever >>>>>>>>> money gets involved, some people have a tendency to loose sight of >>>>>>>>> reality >>>>>>>>> and start seeing $$$ signs in front of their eyes. Given that, I >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> suggest that we as a group define the rules for how this works prior >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> taking donations - that way, everyone (us and those donating) >>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>> where the money is going and we don't end up in pointless arguments. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> suspect the levels of money won't be all that high, but you never can >>>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>>> and knowing how it is to be distributed is important. I think we >>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>> answer questions like: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Who is eligible for the money? Any committer? Only "active" >>>>>>>>> committers? What defines "active"? >>>>>>>>> - How is the money split? Do all committers (however that's >>>>>>>>> defined) get the same amount? Is it split by number of commits? >>>>>>>>> Number of >>>>>>>>> lines of code changed? >>>>>>>>> - Who owns the bank account? Who has visibility of it? Is it >>>>>>>>> available for public viewing? >>>>>>>>> - Do we have any other needs for money other than just >>>>>>>>> distributing it amongst individuals? Should we keep a pot for >>>>>>>>> "NHibernate" >>>>>>>>> activities, such as perhaps sponsoring the occasional conference? >>>>>>>>> Hell, if >>>>>>>>> there's enough cash we could even have an NHibernate stand! >>>>>>>>> NHibernate >>>>>>>>> T-Shirts & Mugs anyone?! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Secondly, I don't see why you shouldn't take a share of this Ayende >>>>>>>>> - you have made many contributions to the project, and I see NHProf as >>>>>>>>> something different. Although your *knowledge* of NH helped you >>>>>>>>> write it, >>>>>>>>> there was nothing about being a committer that made it possible. >>>>>>>>> Anyone >>>>>>>>> else *could* have written NHProf without being a committer if they'd >>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>> both the idea and the ambition to take it forward. NHProf will make >>>>>>>>> its own >>>>>>>>> money and has its own associated costs. I don't really see the two >>>>>>>>> (your >>>>>>>>> commercial activity with NHProf and your altruistic activity with NH) >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> related. If they are, then any one of us that undertakes commercial >>>>>>>>> NH >>>>>>>>> consultancy or writes or contributes to an NH book etc. would also >>>>>>>>> have to >>>>>>>>> come under the same rules. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 03/02/2010 17:23, Ayende Rahien wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Guys, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am setting up a donation campaign for NHibernate. As part of that >>>>>>>>> campaign, my company will donate 5,000$ for the project. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Below is the text of the blog post that I intend to post. I would >>>>>>>>> like to get your comments and any suggestions on how to make this >>>>>>>>> better. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> NHibernate is the most popular Open Source Object Relational >>>>>>>>> Mapper in the .NET framework. As an Open Source project, all the work >>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>> on it is done for free. We would like to be able to dedicate more >>>>>>>>> time to >>>>>>>>> NHibernate, but even as a labor of love, the amount of time that we >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> spend on a free project is limited. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In order to facilitate that, we opened a donation >>>>>>>>> campaign<http://pledgie.com/campaigns/8615>that will allow you to >>>>>>>>> donate money to the project. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [image: Click here to lend your support to: NHibernate and make a >>>>>>>>> donation at www.pledgie.com !]<http://www.pledgie.com/campaigns/8615> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *What is this money going to be used for?* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This money will go directly to NHibernate committers, in order to >>>>>>>>> sponsor the development of NHibernate itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As one caveat of that, none of that money is going to go to me >>>>>>>>> personally. As you are probably aware, I have my own commercial >>>>>>>>> interest in >>>>>>>>> NHibernate (NHibernate Profiler <http://nhprof.com/>), so I don’t >>>>>>>>> feel I should benefit from the donations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Donation Matching* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Moreover, my company, Hibernating >>>>>>>>> Rhinos<http://hibernatingrhinos.com/>, >>>>>>>>> is going to *match any donation *to this campaign (to a total >>>>>>>>> limit of 5,000$), as a way to give back to the NHibernate project for >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> excellent software it produced. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Why should you donate?* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are a user of NHibernate, you gained a lot from build on >>>>>>>>> such a solid foundation. We ask to you to donate so that we can make >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> project even better. If your company uses NHibernate, ask it to >>>>>>>>> donate to >>>>>>>>> this campaign. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Fabio Maulo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Fabio Maulo >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Fabio Maulo >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Fabio Maulo > >
