BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;
}Jon, list
We will, as usual, continue to disagree.
1] With regard to 1ns being understood as 'quality' - well,
'quality', as a subjective rather than objective [and therefore, not
amenable to empirical measurement] - fits in well with chance,
spontaneity and freedom - all of which are subjective and not
amenable to measurement.
2] I disagree with your insistence that
"In my view, it is incontrovertible that when he discusses Form,
Matter, and Entelechy as the three modes of being, he is quite
obviously referring to 1ns, 2ns, and 3ns, respectively". I don't see
that as 'incontrovertible or 'quite obvious' ..but don't see the
point of engaging in any kind of debate with you over this
perception.
3] I am aware that Aristotelian 'matter' is not 'mass' [which can be
measured] but is more akin to potential energy which can be formed
into particular 'things'.
Edwina
On Fri 14/12/18 3:50 PM , Jon Alan Schmidt jonalanschm...@gmail.com
sent:
Edwina, List:
As I have acknowledged before, there are passages in Peirce's
writings where he uses the term "form" in a way more consistent with
3ns than 1ns, but the ones that I have quoted recently are not among
them. In my view, it is incontrovertible that when he discusses
Form, Matter, and Entelechy as the three modes of being, he is quite
obviously referring to 1ns, 2ns, and 3ns, respectively. Chance,
spontaneity, and freedom do not exhaust the scope of 1ns for Peirce;
in fact, quality is the element of experience that is its
paradigmatic manifestation, "that which is what it is in itself, and
as prior to any embodiment." Gary F. has already pointed out that
Aristotelian Matter is not at all the same thing as physical matter
in the modern sense.
Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USAProfessional Engineer, Amateur
Philosopher, Lutheran Laymanwww.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt [1] -
twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt [2]
On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 8:16 AM Edwina Taborsky wrote:
List:
I disagree that this section states that Form is associated with 1ns
and Matter with 2ns. After all, that would suggest that Form is an
action of chance, spontaneity and freedom. I consider that Form,
which is not simply external appearance but 'how' matter is organized
into its identity cannot function with such randomness. And - It is
important, I think, not to confuse the three modes of Firstness,
Secondness and Thirdness, with ordinality. That is, I consider it an
error to think that the term 'Firstness' means - first in order of
existence etc.
Peirce writes "Form, as that which is what it is in itself, and as
prior to any embodiment of it. It is looking upon being as created,
and regards its evolution as having the mode of movement of practice"
. This suggests instead to me, that Form is 3ns and its priority is
akin to its nature, not of ordinality but of continuity. This does
NOT mean that it is pre-existent! It simply means that Form or habits
of organization are continuous rules rather than individual
embodiments. And that matter, which is to say, the individual, or
'that which simply exists' is 2ns and exists within the constraints
of continuous rules/habits.
See also 'matter prior to form' 6.388 where he outlines but does not
reject, Aristotle.
As to what emerged, ordinally first in our cosmos - matter or form,
Peirce's outline of cosmology suggests that 'bits of matter' [which
are existent in 2ns] spontaneously [1ns] emerged first and the
'habits' of their interactions emerged gradually afterwards and
became rules 3ns]. [1.412]. As to what 'matter' is, apart from its
being constituted within discrete individual units, I'd suggest it's
energy.
Edwina
Links:
------
[1] http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt
[2] http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
[3]
http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'tabor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\')
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