Thanks for the input, though like you said from my case the names in most
cases were not even close to the same and it still operates the same.
It will not change the footprint in the schematic just by performing the
update function
untill you manually/globally change each unique part.
What I am trying to solve is importing an Orcad shematic where the engineer
used the footprint field as a description not a name and does not want to
change this.
I hoped the update function within Protel would have worked for me.
I really do not want to have footprint names like "conn, .1centers, .025
post, shrouded,  vertical"
The client has a part number system and where there is no logical name like
PLCC32 I want to use
their part number as the footprint name. So ultimately it does not appear in
Protel whether bug
or just the way it works to accomplish this without a major amount a manual
As for the camps, yes I am one who wants the system driven by library and
schematic and feel that
an update on PCB side should respect any footprint listed in the library for
that part and not take it off the board and put back the first one on the
list for that part. But that is the other problem I can solve that one by
doing just what is described below Camp2 make a part symbol for every part
with ONLY one footprint listed.

The problem about update schematic however like you are stating, yes I
understand I can go to every
unique part and globally update it and save some time but, on a large
schematic that, in my mind, is still too much time. I really wish Protel's
schematic update function would work diferently and allow it to
actually change all of the footprints to reflect what is defined for that
part in the library. Again I really was hoping not to have to manually go to
each unique part, I admit that the global update is a powerfull
capability, but not as powerfull as I would hope in this instance as far as
I can tell experimenting with it.

I fall more into camp 2 however I am opposed to having to make a symbol for
every part value.
VeriBest worked such that you can make ONE resistor symbol to represent
every value and footprint.
It did it by createing the individual part data in a linked database so you
could choose to place an item on the schematic as a Device or just a Symbol.
The Device carried all the part data like company and vendor part numbers
footprint etc. The symbol was just th edumb graphic that you could decide
what you wanted it to grow up to be.

Working in a service unit having the ability to do things on the fly and not
worry about real part numbers or internal company documantation or whether
the schematic/netlist footprints match,
as long as the board goes out like the customer's design was intended that
is a good thing.

However if working to some companies standards I find it is pretty much
necesary to make sure the front end (Schematic/Library) drives the design
and any changes go back to the schematic and libraries
to drive to the PCB.

I feel CAD systems should be made to provide as much or as little constraint
to how you design,
whether you want to do most of the design on the fly or be rigid in that
libraries an dthe schematic
drive and control the design process.

Thanks again for the very good input.
Oh by the way Protels answer at PCB East was that he thought it might still
be a bug too.
However when I called the Protel service line they only said we really don't
want that update to
occur that way????

Robert M. Wolfe, C.I.D.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Multisheet Problems & Updates etc.

> On 05:18 PM 2/01/2002 -0500, Bob Wolfe said:
> >Peter,
> >Thanks very much, I understand you can put anything you want in there for
> >footprint, I just would like the system to update what IS there and use
> >without any extra work involved. I just used the 3 footprints for the
> >example of what I was trying to accomplish. Like was stated and tried, if
> >you put anything in there other than the first footprint defined every
> >you do a footprint update with the sync it WILL change the footprint back
> >that first one in the pulldown list defined in the part library.
> If as Bob says the footprint in the Sch component is changed back to the
> first on the drop down list it could be related to the bug I saw but had
> assumed was fixed a long time ago.  This bug (from memory) was triggered
> when one of the components in the list had a name that the first n-letters
> were identical to the letters in the footprint entered in the edit
> box.  So, I found it was not possible to enter 0805 (and have it
> if there was a footprint in the drop list 0805_WAVE, for instance.  This
> from (distant) memory so it may be all screwy.  But I do not think this is
> in fact what Bob is seeing.
> >I really am
> >just basically looking for the system to be driven by library and
> >data.
> I think that, Bob, you may be using your library system a little
> differently from many of us.  You seem to be changing the footprint list
> the library and then updating the Sch and then having to touch each
> instance of the symbol and then updating the PCB.  I think most people
> would fall into one of two other camps.  Camp 1 - Use the symbol as-is and
> simply enter the new footprint in the Sch symbol edit box, using the
> functions to make it easy to change multiple component instances at a
> time.  In this case you are using the drop-list as a suggested list of
> common footprints but not the only legal footprints (that is if you enter
> any footprints into the list at all when you create the library
> part).  Camp 2 - the one value/one symbol crowd.  These people make a new
> Sch library part for every part they use - including each resistor value
> and variant (5%, 1%, 0.1%, 1watt 0.25 watt etc).  In this case the
> footprint drop list can potentially be used to hold only legal footprints.
> Camp 1 users may well go back and occasionally change the footprint list
> the library to reflect a change in design patterns (what sort of
> they are using most).  But they do not have to.  Camp 2 users essentially
> believe that if it has a new footprint then it should have a new symbol as
> it is a different component.  There is some shades of grey between Camp 1
> and 2 but I have not come across anyone using the library system as I
> understand you are, but that is not saying it is wrong, just that I have
> not seen it before.
> (I am hoping that the next version of Protel has better support for camp
> by allowing locking of all attributes but designator in the library. It
> would be good if the designator prefix could be, optionally, locked as
> >I don't want to have to keep typing anything, I would like the update
> >schematic or cache to actually take and use the footprint defined in the
> >part even if it was the
> >same name part but with the new footprint. My feeling is that update
> >work this way.
> I just ran a test, pretty much as I understand you are doing, and it ran
> I expected and as I would like.  That is, updating the footprint list in
> the Sch library for a symbol and the updating the Sch caused the footprint
> *list* of affected components to change but *not* the actual footprint as
> previously entered for that component.  Any other behavior would not seem
> correct to me - based on the fact that the drop list is only an offering
> suggested footprints not a firm list with any sort of precedence.
> I did find a little bit of a funny effect related to the bug I talked
> above - in that the edit box text is used as a look-ahead, auto-complete,
> prefix to preselect an element on the drop list (if it matches) when the
> drop list arrow is clicked.  this can have an unintended side effect of
> changing the footprint to something else if you simply open the footprint
> drop list and close it again.  Try this, change the footprint on a
> component to only the first two letters of a footprint that is in the drop
> list.  Then click the footprint arrow twice and see what happens.  Not
> quite what some may expect since there has been no actual click in the
> list client area.
> Ian Wilson

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