On 05:09 PM 2/7/2002 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Mr Lomax,
>I don't believe that I missed your point at all, I just don't agree. There
>is no such thing as a "simple" 3D model. If all you want is simple height,
>you might want to follow Robi's advice and calculate the separations with a
>pencil and paper. If you need interference checking as you stated in the
>follow up email to this one, then you have to consider the complexity of the
>components true shape and mating surfaces, if any. 

Mr Good, Please explain why Protel advertised a 3D-viewer tool as part of the suite 
upgrade price for P99/SE. While you're at it, please explain why Protel EDA is a 
PCB-designer's tool and not an electrical and electronics engineer's EDA tool as well 
(as it has been advertised for years). I realize that many PCB-designers have 
different motivations than engineers, but you obviously don't realize the opposite.

>This is not done simply and if I may say so, not Altium's responsibility. 

You may say the moon is made of cheese if you like. If Altium has opened the can of 
worms, as they obviously have by including the broken utility, then Altium has a 
responsibility to complete the process and repair it. Otherwise, Altium can be 
legitimately viewed as deceptive and mis-managed, if not also incompetent. If, as a 
result of advise like yours, Altium does not complete the process, then Altium can 
also be viewed as tailoring Protel EDA, a package marketed to engineers and 
PCB-designers alike, to only the needs and desires of their PCB-designer customers, a 
conclusion that engineers should perhaps begin thinking about, prior to $$Phoenix$$, 
if engineers don't want to simply become (or continue to be) a cash-cow for the narrow 
objectives of _some_ well-connected Protel PCB-designers.

>I
>agree that Altium would be best served by including/buying/incorporating the
>utilities of Desktop-EDA or the Qualecad sort, but leave the 3D world to the
>3D CAD softwares. The beauty of this scenario is that it already exists and
>works very well. You know, don't re-invent the wheel....

Yes, I, for one, am quite familiar with that theory. I was told it again and again by 
the aging dweeb who said I was wasting my time with software PCB-design back in the 
mid-80's, since "tape was the only way that REAL PCB-design was accomplished, and 
everything else was just mental masturbation", just as I've had to listen to people 
who blathered on that w2k was a joke, (and now whole-heartedly embrace it) and yet 
others who argued that we'd never have need for 512M of memory (not to mention the 
twits who argued incessantly that RAM-based soundcards would never have a chance in 
hell of making it, not to mention that they'd never have decent quality output, etc, 
etc, etc... Maybe it's time for someone to consider retirement, as someone's theories 
are clearly a bit outdated by present technical methodologies at work in all but 
large, cash-rich or otherwise bloated organizations.

>The Desktop-EDA solution involving Solidworks is completely bi-directional
>and associative.

And expensive. Did you mention that? No. Protel advertised a built-in 3D capability 
for P99/SE, implying that such an additional cost for a secondary CAD package like 
solid-works, Autocad, or similar would be obviated by the included utility (if what 
they actually sent can be called that...) . However, they did not state that one would 
have to purchase Solid-works, nor did they complete the process internally, nor did 
they allow their customers access to the file format for those 3D-models so that their 
customers could complete the process on their own. That your organization affords 
Solid works is...well...nice for you. That at least some customers weighed the 
advertised built-in 3D capability of Protel 99/SE in the upgrade decision (myself 
included) is also of merit, and IMO should not be dismissed simply because someone who 
works in a cash-rich  environment where draftsmen likely still exist has doubts about 
its merit.

>  When I send a preliminary layout via export to my 3D CAD
>counterpart,

Yes, I know...exactly like when I send my napkin sketches to the draftsman...oops... 
he (and nearly all of his fellow draftsmen) got laid-off fifteen years ago because of 
their functional obsolescence...Hmmm...forgot for a second that we engineers no longer 
(as a rule) have at our disposal (or generally have need for) draftsmen, since our 
software does all of that (with the addition of our concomitant computer skills) for 
us...I digress...Succinctly: Not all organizations have a 3D-Cad counterpart available 
for this work. We do it ourselves! (gasp) 

Now that I think of it, perhaps I should simply have dictated this to my personal 
secretary and had it hand delivered to you by my courier instead of typing it in 
myself...

Protel should either fix it or send out refund checks.

<rant off>

aj

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