See below,


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)

> On 02:48 AM 10/09/2002 -0700, Tony Karavidas said:
> >Hi Jami,
> ><..snip..>
> > > Please remember that long before I joined this forum, you,
> > > and many of the other major players here have had a very long
> > > time to "relate" to Altium and "motivate" them with that
> > > "personal connection", and we are still at SP6, and all you
> > > have gotten from Altium is the "opportunity" to pay for "ATS"
> > > and buy a lottery ticket called DXP that may or may not ever produce.
> >
> >Not quite true. Several people were picked as beta testers for unknown
> >reasons, I happen to be one of them. One thing that I (and many others)
> >got out of it was to be able to voice our opinions directly to the
> >development team and have them make changes to DXP in direct
> >relationship to what we were saying! That is pretty powerful. There were
> >some big changes that happened in that period and it was because some
> >user's ideas were better than the developer's ideas. I think that's
> >pretty darn cool.
> Jami,
> I gotta step in here.
> Jami you should compare the changes in P99 to P99SE.  These changes were
> achieved largely by careful considered discussion on this forum and some
> efforts by some users to present polls and collate the results.  Others
> like to document this history if required.
> They were not achieved by the rants and raves that many of us (me very
> included) had engaged in prior.
> The efforts by users to engage Protel (as it was) rather than fight proved
> to be much more successful and may have been part of the support
> in Protel that was observed in the period between late P98 and P99SE
> SP6.  We are in danger of loosing this engagement - at least on this
> list.  The forum members here can make a call as to the current SNR of
> list.
> You may think this is going soft on Altium - so be it. I see it as a
> cooperative method of helping the company I currently rely on to operate
> business.
> Personally - I think I am having a better chance of achieving change with
> the sort of discussion underway on the DXP forum than the degenerating
> flailing of this list.
> Would I like SP7 for P99SE - sure would.
> Ian Wilson

Thanks  Ian,

I really and truly can understand and do in fact appreciate all that you and
all of the other guys (and gals) here in the forum have gone thru with
Protel / Altium in the past, and respect the working relationship that you
guys have built with them, and everything that has been accomplished.

I also really and truly respect what you are saying regarding manners of
communication, and what can be accomplished by taking the time and energy to
try and approach people and things in the right t way.

However, without in any manner attempting to belittle or berate or ignore
all of that, the fact is that I have a job to do, whether for myself, on my
own copy of Protel 99 SE, or for my employer, on his Protel 99 SE.

Protel 99 SE is a tool that I choose (at home) or have (at work) to use to
do my job.

It is not whatever history you guys have with Protel 99 SE and its

It is not whether Protel 99 SE SP6 works better than SP5, or SP1, or 99, or

It is not that Protel 99 SE works reasonably well 98 percent of the time.

It is not that Protel 99 SE does 98 percent of the things that I want it to

What it is, it that occasionally, Protel 99 SE screws up, and I mean really
screws up, and screws up bad, I mean screws up big time, and when that
happens, I go ballistic, I mean thru the roof.

I mean there are times when Protel 99 SE crashes and looses something that I
spent a lot of time on, or screws up my database for some stupid stupid

These are inexcusable and unacceptable. I mean totally totally 100 percent

Protel 99 SE is supposed to be a fairly well developed and fairly mature
piece of software, and it is simply inexcusable, totally inexcusable, that
it does some of the things that it does.

It is just simply as simple as that.

When Protel 99 SE explodes on me, I explode on it, and usually scream and
yell and go thru the roof.

I have put my fist thru keyboards and thrown them against walls when Protel
99 SE has screwed me up (keyboards are cheap, and the one I am using know is
missing 2 keys from it's last trip to the wall".

I have hit monitors hard enough to break them when Protel 99 SE has screwed
me up.

I have knocked over a brand new Dell 535 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 when ripping the
power cord out when Protel 99 SE hung up and I could not shut the system

When my daughter was eight years she bought me a T shirt with the cartoon on
the front of it with a duck holding the big hammer over the computer
monitor, about ready to trash it, with the caption "strike any key to
continue." She certainly did not understand what "strike any key to
continue" meant, but she did know that Daddy fixed all of his computers that
way. The ironic thing here is that I did actually fix them, even when I
broke them and had to take them apart and repair them, and the next time she
saw me using that computer it was working properly.

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for crap.

There is no excuse in the world for some of the things that happen with
Protel 99 SE, absolutely no excuse.

A perfectly good example of this is "KLUNK!".

There is simply no excuse whatsoever for this.

Whether or not it actually causes other problems is not the issue here, it
is simply a programming blunder that can only be blamed on a third rate
idiot, and there is absolutely no excuse for it to happen in an $8.000.00
piece of software (aside from the fact I have seen that on my system here in
the past two weeks that it is directly related to the "hidden" processes,
which I am thoroughly convinced are a basic cause of Protels instability
problems dating back to Protel 98, even though I cannot directly prove that
to you or anyone else)

Yes, Protel 99 SE does a lot of things right, and has a lot of nice
features, but it still has a few basic problems and bugs that are totally
inexcusable and totally unacceptable, and these problems and bugs, coupled
with Protel / Altiums attitude and wholesale refusal to do anything about
them (see my many previous stories re "go pound sand"), at certain times and
under certain circumstances, relegate Protel 99 SE to the "worthless piece
of crap!" category, and justifiably so.

Yes, I know I need to chill out and not get so passionate about things.

One of my big problems is that I just can't handle or deal with

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for incompetence.


I simply can't tolerate it. (As a side note, I know that I am opening myself
for everyone's responses here, but please, I really am not asking for that).

The bottom line here is that Protel 99 SE still exhibits several totally
totally inexcusable and totally totally unacceptable problems an bugs, and I
believe that I am now justified in stating that Protel 99 SE simply and
clearly exhibits some grossly and totally incompetent programming in some

Thanks for giving me a chance to vent.

I hope I haven't offended anyone.

Thanks for the participation


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