See replies below.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Open source SP7
> At 10:14 AM 10/22/2003, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
> >Note: I am not against MS in principle. If I could buy a full version
> >W98 or 2K for $39, I'd do it. But $299 is just too much for software
> >should be priced as a commodity.
> Mr. Baggett has a strange idea of what the software costs. First of all,
> you can buy a whole computer with Windows XP installed for.... I just did
> quick search and found on refurbdepot.com, an HP Pavilion 515X faster than
> my present main machine for $399. Yes, it's painful to look at, I
> I'm trying not to think of what I spent, and I really didn't spend that
> much. For the time....
Why is my idea strange? The HP hardware probably represents about $350 of
the $399 price. That leaves about $49 for the XP license. That's pretty
close to my idea of what XP should cost. Why should I have to buy a new PC
to get a deal on the OS?
What if I don't want to buy an HP? Or a Dell? Or a Compaq? I have an HP
and Dell that are 5 and 7 years old. They are good machines, still in daily
use. But I probably won't buy any more of them because they always use some
proprietary parts in them. I once had to replace the power supply in the
Dell. A remanufactured PS from Dell was $139. I should have been able to
buy a new one for $40 if it had a standard ATX connector pinout. The
connector was the same, just the pinout was proprietary. That's Dell really
making an effort to screw their customers for parts! I also had a Compaq
Presario 4640 (circa 1998). What an absolute piece of junk! It's the only
computer I have officially retired and totally scrapped, as there was
nothing salvagable in it except sheet metal (all parts were proprietary)!
> I looked at another company and found a computer that is about the same as
> the one we use (in my wife's business) to run UPS Worldship 5, and it was
> $79. It did not include the operating system, which was extra. How much
> extra? Windows 98, $49. So even if you tossed the computer, the W98
> would be $128. Quite a bit less than $299.
Was that a used PC? $79 is too low to believe unless it is used.
> Okay, how much would it cost just to buy W98? First I found that I can buy
> Windows XP Home Edition OEM for $92.95. As an OEM product, you have to buy
> some hardware. The web site explained that if you buy a screw, it's
Buy a screw? That works on so many levels...
> I know that this is the practice, I just bought Office XP 2002
> Special Edition (includes Front Page and Publisher, free upgrade to XP
> for all components) for $359. It came boxed with a Microsoft mouse.
> "Hardware." From this same site, I could buy an optical mouse for about
> $12, or I could buy any of many other useful items for only a few dollars,
> perhaps I need a connector of some kind....
Have you ever tried OpenOffice? You could have saved some money, perhaps.
It doesn't do everything MS Office does, but close enough for many needs. I
use OpenOffice at home. I'd use it at work too, if I didn't already have
Office 2000 Pro from a few years ago.
> But that was XP. I went to buycheapsoftware.com and found Windows 98 First
> Edition OEM for $55. The listing said "includes OEM hardware." So we are
> down to $55 to solve Mr. Baggett's UPS problem. I also went to the same
> company from which I just bought XP2002, and they also had the OEM W98
> first edition for $55. That is a real price, from real companies who
> deliver the product....
W98 First Ed sucks. Second Ed is much better. Better USB integration,
fewer bugs. Those were probably leftover licenses from 1998. Not that I am
opposed to old software, I'm just opposed to paying new money for old
> Since he had to come up with another computer due to the memory
> on his first one, though, the best solution might have been to buy a used
> or refurbished computer with W98 installed. How much work he would have
I already had a used PC laying around. I don't want to buy more hardware
just to get some software! That's wasteful. I am not a hippie, greenie, or
enviro-wacko, but I do recycle cans, bottles, paper, and cardboard boxes. I
also try not to fill up the landfill with computers and old electronics. I
believe in using a machine until it breaks. Then see if you can fix it. If
so, then keep using it. If not, then buy a new one. You would be amazed
how much money you can save this way. My previous car was in my service for
13 years. 8 years without a car payment saved me over $25K. Most of my
home stereo equipment is at least 17 years old, and still sounds better than
what you can find at Best Buy and Circuit City.
> I also found, looking around, another decent computer with Windows 2000
> installed, on ebay, starting bid $50, 4 hours to go, no bids. "Installed"
> may or may not mean that the license is legitimately being sold, if such
> niceties concern you.... One might ask the seller if the manuals and CD
> included. I'm tempted... but no time.
I don't have the time or patience to do the ebay thing. I dislike auctions.
You can find some great bargains on ebay, but you can also piss away a lot
of time there too.
> Since I was looking on ebay, were any OS licenses for sale? I thought at
> first there were none, but then I found one. A Dell Windows XP
> installation disk. It is packaged with a power cord, manufacturer sealed.
> think we now know what that is about. The price? There was one bid on it
> for $9.99. The info says "may be installed on a Dell computer only." No
> problem, there was a decent Dell computer for sale with no OS for $39.
> So much for expensive operating systems!
> (Yes, the systems are expensive, unless one finds the cracks in the market
facade: a false or superficial appearance, often designed to give a
Yeah, it seems that retail boxed pricing structure of Windows is a facade.
It tries to give the impression that Windows is worth $299, when it's really
only worth $93 at OEM. So, if MS gets less money for the OEM version, why
can't it get less money for the retail boxed version? OK, maybe an extra
$20 to cover printing and distribution costs.
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