At 12:05 PM 10/23/2003, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Why is my idea strange?  The HP hardware probably represents about $350 of
the $399 price.  That leaves about $49 for the XP license.  That's pretty
close to my idea of what XP should cost.  Why should I have to buy a new PC
to get a deal on the OS?


You don't. See below. The PC was not new, I think, it may have been refurbished. But if you compare it to the computer you ended up putting together, I think it would be worth a lot more. More than you need, I'm sure.


By the way, I think that HP PC may have included a monitor, but I'm not sure.

Was that a used PC? $79 is too low to believe unless it is used.

Refurbished, I think, or just surplus. Appeared to be a reputable company, but I didn't actually check that out. It's low, but not unbelievably low. this was a Pentium but not a fast one. It had enough RAM and hard drive, etc., to do the Worldship job.


> Okay, how much would it cost just to buy W98? First I found that I can buy
> Windows XP Home Edition OEM for $92.95. As an OEM product, you have to buy
> some hardware. The web site explained that if you buy a screw, it's
enough.


Buy a screw? That works on so many levels...

Except that you could consider that it is Microsoft getting screwed.... It isn't, of course, they are still making money on the deal, just not as much money as they make on isolated licenses not sold with hardware.


> I know that this is the practice, I just bought Office XP 2002
Professional
> Special Edition (includes Front Page and Publisher, free upgrade to XP
2003
> for all components) for $359. It came boxed with a Microsoft mouse.
> "Hardware." From this same site, I could buy an optical mouse for about
> $12, or I could buy any of many other useful items for only a few dollars,
> perhaps I need a connector of some kind....

Have you ever tried OpenOffice?  You could have saved some money, perhaps.
It doesn't do everything MS Office does, but close enough for many needs.  I
use OpenOffice at home.  I'd use it at work too, if I didn't already have
Office 2000 Pro from a few years ago.

Yes, I considered that. I've been using Office 97 Professional (and, by the way, the price I have above was an upgrade price, but the non-upgrade version wasn't much more), and I wanted Front Page. I wanted also to get better features in Word and Excel, especially web features. When I found that it would cost me, what, $150?, just for Front Page, and I saw that the offer was effectively giving me Office XP Professional Special Edition -- with two additional programs, Front Page and Publisher, one of which I wanted and the other of which I think might be useful, *including the upgrade to 2003 versions of all the programs for shipping cost from Microsoft*, it was too good a deal to pass up.



> But that was XP. I went to buycheapsoftware.com and found Windows 98 First
> Edition OEM for $55. The listing said "includes OEM hardware." So we are
> down to $55 to solve Mr. Baggett's UPS problem. I also went to the same
> company from which I just bought XP2002, and they also had the OEM W98
> first edition for $55. That is a real price, from real companies who
> deliver the product....

W98 First Ed sucks.  Second Ed is much better.  Better USB integration,
fewer bugs.  Those were probably leftover licenses from 1998.  Not that I am
opposed to old software, I'm just opposed to paying new money for old
software.

A small amount for a computer to run Worldship. It would work just fine for that. Second Edition was available for more, same kind of thing. Search for OEM versions of the software, it is usually the way to go. Besides, I got a nice mouse in the bargain. (MS Optical).



I already had a used PC laying around.  I don't want to buy more hardware
just to get some software!  That's wasteful.  I am not a hippie, greenie, or
enviro-wacko, but I do recycle cans, bottles, paper, and cardboard boxes.  I
also try not to fill up the landfill with computers and old electronics.  I
believe in using a machine until it breaks.  Then see if you can fix it.  If
so, then keep using it.  If not, then buy a new one.  You would be amazed
how much money you can save this way.  My previous car was in my service for
13 years.  8 years without a car payment saved me over $25K.  Most of my
home stereo equipment is at least 17 years old, and still sounds better than
what you can find at Best Buy and Circuit City.

I'm sure. You can save a lot of money, but at a certain point, and with some of those "economies," you are wasting much more time than money if you consider your time to have value. This was for business, where your time usually has very concrete value. I think this was an example of wasting more time than saving money....


In a sense, your old computer was broken; specifically, it would not do the job you needed it to do. You don't have to throw it away, you can use it for some other purpose or you can donate it to some cause or charity or you can send it to a recycling center.

I'm pretty much a re-use fanatic. And I'm quite reluctant to have someone else do what I can do myself. My wife is different. I make my own business cards. She went out and bought them. Her business grew faster than mine. I wonder why?

> I also found, looking around, another decent computer with Windows 2000
> installed, on ebay, starting bid $50, 4 hours to go, no bids. "Installed"
> may or may not mean that the license is legitimately being sold, if such
> niceties concern you.... One might ask the seller if the manuals and CD
are
> included. I'm tempted... but no time.

I don't have the time or patience to do the ebay thing.  I dislike auctions.
You can find some great bargains on ebay, but you can also piss away a lot
of time there too.

Yes. And you can waste a lot of time getting that kludge to run....


> Since I was looking on ebay, were any OS licenses for sale? I thought at
> first there were none, but then I found one. A Dell Windows XP
Professional
> installation disk. It is packaged with a power cord, manufacturer sealed.
I
> think we now know what that is about. The price? There was one bid on it
> for $9.99. The info says "may be installed on a Dell computer only." No
> problem, there was a decent Dell computer for sale with no OS for $39.
>
> So much for expensive operating systems!
>
> (Yes, the systems are expensive, unless one finds the cracks in the market
> facade.)

facade:  a false or superficial appearance, often designed to give a
favorable impression.

Yeah, it seems that retail boxed pricing structure of Windows is a facade.
It tries to give the impression that Windows is worth $299, when it's really
only worth $93 at OEM.  So, if MS gets less money for the OEM version, why
can't it get less money for the retail boxed version?  OK, maybe an extra
$20 to cover printing and distribution costs.

Frankly, it's like Canada drugs. It is popular right now for politicians here in the U.S. to present Canada drugs as a solution to the prescription drug problem, and it is certainly helpful. I'm going to be buying drugs from Canada myself. But I don't consider it any kind of long-term fix. Canada prices are low because it is a governmentally-controlled market in Canada and yet the pharmaceutical companies are still making an incremental profit. They aren't recovering, I'd bet, their development costs from Canada, they are recovering them from us in the US. If everyone starts buying drugs from Canada, they will raise the prices they charge Canadian companies. They'll have to!


You really should look at the Microsoft financials. I haven't seen figures on the proportion of sales that are OEM and the proportion that are individual licenses. But if you were to lower the price on individual licenses significantly, it might be that they would have to raise the OEM prices to make up for the reduced income. It would be fairer, perhaps.

OEM licenses may be legitimately cheaper because they may represent lower support costs, plus being, closer to wholesale.

For now, however, OEM licenses are the way to go, where they are available.



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