Mike, LOL. I ll do that just after I get Specctra to do my job. Are you proposing me this because you have nothing to do with your hands and have been practicing weaving?
Mira --- Mike Reagan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mira > > I feel for you if you choose to basket weave > instead of design. I do not > believe your friend is knowledgeable enough to use > spectra. 4 BGAs should > route in about 20 minutes if the placement is > correct and the rules are set > correctly. > > Mike Reagan > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:11 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison > > > Hi Mike, > > It's really important how experienced is a person to > use the autorouter. > As you said the fanout should be done manually. The > placement is also manual work. The routing depends > on > how clever the placement and fanout were done. > I have a friend who uses Specctra and had to > autoroute > a PCB with 4 BGAs and I don't know how many other > components. He spent about two months autorouting > just > this board and even went to work at night to check > the > results and run another session. > Even if I had to work at night, I'd do it manually > much faster. > > My $0.02 > > Mira > > > --- edsi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Tony > > > > > But do you spend 'days' each time you do a > board? > > I rather just route the > > > board by hand for 'days' and have it look the > way > > I want it to look. > > Tony, I spend day on what would otherwise might > be > > months. You shouldnt manually route 2000 > > components. Because there is no smart fannout > > algorithim in Spectra or Electra, I used > prefanned > > patterns. I have posted this a while ago. The > > pattern are also rule driven to allow for routing > > channels. I have tried some do file for fan out > but > > the results are not as good. I get close to 100 > > percent routing in very little CPU time > > > > > I've tried using autorouters and after a while I > > just say f**k it, and route > > > by hand. They always look 'auto routed', busses > > seem to not stay together, > > This is major misconception, that busses should > > follow each other..... Maintaining the same > > topography and wire lengths are important. > Routing > > and Wrapping busses togehter invites crosstalk I > > see this all of the time...on noisey boards/ > > > etc. > > > > > > I am about a week into my Electra trial, and it > > got a current board to 100%> with no violations, > but > > it looks like hell. > > > > It looks like hell because, you have to understand > > the how an autorouter behaves. The shortest > path > > for any route is a straight line, the > autorouter's > > algorithm is a manhattan path. If you can get the > > the router to run diagonal then horizontal, then > the > > router is working properly. If you get all of > your > > lines on each layer running in the same direction, > > you are routing correctly. I call it my "stick" > > theory. Drop some sticks on the floor, at random > > they occupy the most space. Placed adjacent to > > each other, they occupy the least amount of space. > > If your routes are running in the same direction, > it > > should be very efficient > > > > > > >I would have so much clean up, > > > > I rarely have any clean up except for reviewing > high > > speed and signal integrity issues. ie mentioned > > last posting, I review lenghts, and via counts. > > The via count also tells me if the the manhattan > > path was followed. On any two nodes I expect 3 > > vias max. Start, turn and terminate. > > > > > > > rather just route the board by hand...again. I > am > > trying different > > > instructions in the DO file, and maybe that will > > help. > > > > > > It gets more complicated than that, you may have > to > > place boards on a router several times. For > > instance I have a design right now that I can see > > very strong sets of Horiz and Vertical ratsnest. > I > > am selecting busses to route Horz, reviewing it > > then I select only Vertical routing. Rotuting > > begins at placement, isuring that routing channels > > are always open > > > > There is a misconception in this industry that > > autorouters are not up to the task. If you want > to > > route every thing on the top layer, specify the > top > > layer, with no vias. You might be surprized at > the > > results. > > > > > > Mike Reagan > > EDSI > > ---------- Original Message > > ---------------------------------- > > From: "Tony Karavidas" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: "Protel EDA Forum" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:41:32 -0700 > > > > >But do you spend 'days' each time you do a board? > I > > rather just route the > > >board by hand for 'days' and have it look the way > I > > want it to look. > > > > > >I've tried using autorouters and after a while I > > just say f**k it, and route > > >by hand. They always look 'auto routed', busses > > seem to not stay together, > > >etc. > > > > > >I am about a week into my Electra trial, and it > got > > a current board to 100% > > >with no violations, but it looks like hell. I > would > > have so much clean up, I > > >rather just route the board by hand...again. I am > > trying different > > >instructions in the DO file, and maybe that will > > help. > > > > > >Tony > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:44 PM > > >To: Protel EDA Forum > > >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison > > > > > >Good question Joe > > > > > >I plan to phase out my usage with Spectra, Since > I > > have an older version, > > >with not quite all the bells and whistles. Alot > of > > the "bells" in Spectra > > >dont work any way. What I have found is > ...SPECTRA > > like all the other > > >routers were written 20 years ago. Spectra has > not > > kept up with the latest > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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