On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 3:02:53 PM UTC, cooloutac wrote: > On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 10:48:22 AM UTC-4, yura...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 2:34:53 PM UTC, cooloutac wrote: > > > On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 11:43:34 PM UTC-4, Francesco wrote: > > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Eva Star <eva...@openmailbox.org> wrote: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > > > > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 08/02/2017 03:04 AM, cooloutac wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh ok I see, so a taskbar widget or something to replace the > > > > > > > > > manager. I thought they lost their minds for a second. My > > > > > > > > > immediate thought was what about attaching drives, and seeing if > > > > > > > > > updates available? Joanna addressed all my concerns but I'm gonna > > > > > > > > > have to wait and see what happens with this. Hopefully it doesn't > > > > > > > > > turn out to be more confusing then the manager. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a miscalculation. How about the words "we must make Qubes user > > > > > > > > friendly for all users non IT advanced" and release Qubes without > > > > > > > > manager? :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe, widgets is not a good idea, but Qubes Manager is one of the > > > > > > > > important part that make Qubes useful to manage all vms with mouse. > > > > > > > > Some UX to old one QM + start menu links to right mouse action and it > > > > > > > > will be amazing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I never use the start menu on the left lower side of the screen > > > > because it is too complicated, too many items and needs customization > > > > that I am too lazy to do or have better things to do. I do everything > > > > with the Qubes Manager that is so well organized and compact. I am > > > > afraid that the new arrangement may make things more difficult to find > > > > for a new user since items are spread over different buttons/places. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would suggest to mitigate this risk putting links to the other places > > > > on the widget/window that opens when you click on one of them. You can > > > > separate things, but better put links to find them again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I imagine that somewhere I'll find the list of VMs. There please > > > > 1. keep the "run command in VM" choice and > > > > 2. add something new: the chance to show only preferred VM > > > > > > > > > > > > The first is very important to avoid using the start button. > > > > > > > > The second is important to simplify the view and speed up the most > > > > common routines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cooloutac made me smile telling of his mother and family using Qubes. > > > > I had my wife using Qubes for some years, but recently she rised up > > > > against Qubes telling that it is too complicated for her to be able to > > > > master it without help. She wanted a Mac. Really it is impossible to > > > > maintain Qubes without the CLI and this makes it beyond limits for most > > > > people. But perhaps if we are able to find a stable architecture and > > > > then Qubes matures enough, this may change. But we are not there yet. > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > Fran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > Version: GnuPG v2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJZgnLPAAoJEGSin3PC/C0AyIUP/AuxhZfxWdFGYzLzUQX2fzn/ > > > > > > > > 5ajxXWVNtTXWgpmUqzu1Ov/HMp9W7hFerw4GXwMotXDDXrIbf+8WEayS+q+SdXBn > > > > > > > > qanSZ0EmBkwoFVptP+1TNQqQIcRLEF3gN3o3vq8tGaq2dUZ4HW9hSXBUZ71WcjXR > > > > > > > > g95QUBBpl05/l//Vozu0GEUxpLBrzAhji95awd39vn/2BRKr6q4pGlNsi6BdqgCJ > > > > > > > > WzmeaSTrYjNkBHypYjgpCXT6MQLRXEmlqX8OVxI5jopP7tYNZh5+bKp+1/U9vccJ > > > > > > > > q4ddOTDlaCwY5bmQgWl05MNI4+OWr8xBlrfVCMmfxVO5dOBvoCjCrMTEySh3sPL7 > > > > > > > > gGMcT1349yiIllPPP0vhdm+0d0n0hWLR160WExQoF+oUgCbXFnf5sBT1bjWxXBOl > > > > > > > > EEwg6IMElKgjI0jG0izCX7M3rn5m1H95KOGR2nn+IyJIzgJwk4+4YTWgFFfnwQyX > > > > > > > > k9EcN8vffpokLz9I3u2qZSdDDYz71KVRAHMxL3h2WxEro7RVRtOcbpXO3ctcsdV0 > > > > > > > > QZfEwW2SAeZz798InY/Qb+7NmtpSsZUl3rCYUY7i5mubkGgnbtklCSUEzxZZ+4hx > > > > > > > > SD6nV8tTjrNMxSNEytvIYd6wJZYrHkvA7Kf7KtNtxa7+mMr89LzL5qLHk/W15R14 > > > > > > > > iXk4BnVvkdfLntZ+Pa84 > > > > > > > > =ILr0 > > > > > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "qubes-users" group. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > > an email to qubes-users...@googlegroups.com. > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to qubes...@googlegroups.com. > > > > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/7a4c1304-cbcb-e447-97dc-9db848eae1fd%40openmailbox.org. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > I'm being honest man. The only time we ever have to use the cli, is if > > > we forget to restart the sys-usb and shut it down by accident. She has > > > the command written on the wall to alt-f2, xterm, qvm-start sys-usb. > > > Only command we ever use on occasion, and thats only cause we using mouse > > > proxy in the sys-usb. > > > > Honest or not, I believe you that this is sufficient for your needs. But > > keep in mind other people use software differently, not everyone use it the > > same way, or have the same needs for that matter. > > > > Some want quick changes, which can be done faster than terminal. > > > > Some prefer not to, or don't have time to, learn to use the terminal. > > > > People have different learning styles, which applies to use-cases too. Some > > are much stronger graphically, while others don't need a visual overview. > > > > Saying "we" I'd ask you to define "we". When you say "some people", you can > > refer to a group, and not everyone, without illegitimate people who are not > > the same as you, or have different needs than you. > > > > This is an forever lasting problem in the culture of Linux where many > > people think their needs mean the needs of everyone else must be the same. > > Yet a big part of Linux's concept and philosophy is about having choice. > > This is a paradox, the culture does not match what Linux is all about. > > > > We should respect that people have different needs, just because some > > people don't have the needs, does not make the problem irrelevant. > > > > No offense meant at you. It's just overdue for a modern culture to grow out > > of the old paradigms which are both very limited, and in stark contrast to > > what Linux actually is about. Seeing the big picture, and not staying hyper > > focused on the small details. > > I'm not asking to remove terminal, not sure what you are going on about. > > The forever problem of linux, is the self fulfilling prophecies from people > who want to feel superior over others. People want to give overly > complicated solutions to simple problems to feel smart and feed their ego, > they want to claim that linux is too complicated to use by noobs, and they > end up keeping it down, which in their mind proves their point. In reality, > using linux nowadays is no different then using windows. You don't need a > commandline for anything in most major distros anymore either. But it has > that stigma already. > > I'm not using Qubes like some cool tech experiment, I don't think i'm a super > computer genius for using it, We = my family, use it for practical > everyday life like families use windows. > > If Qubes is not aimed at the average home user anymore, then fine, We'll move > on. More and more i wonder whats the point of using any o/s without secure > boot anyways. I just hope itl stops listening to people from the linux > community, or else Qubes is not going to be much different.
ah, I somehow didn't manage to link your name to the different posts and read into your single post regarding having few needs to use the Qubes Manager VM GUI. I apologize for the misunderstanding, the fault is on my part there. But that aside, it seems we largely agree, we need a statement whether Qubes is still being designed for regular people, or if it's to remain to be for the elite and business users. Not going to resent the Qubes team for such a move, it would just be nice "knowing" so, exactly like you said, that we can move on. If Qubes is not eventually meant for a choice to the masses, then I'm okay with that too (albeit a bit sad). But we need knowing. I also highly agree that we should leave hind the "elite" and feeling "special", I agree with you there as well. It's not only tasteless, it's scaring new Linux users away. I don't think the core of Linux is about being superior, though some might make it like that. But in times where large tech companies are growing stronger and stronger, and democracies weaker and weaker, we really do need Linux now more than ever, especially in the years to come, for freedom and democracy to flourish. Software is increasingly lock-in and toxic, profiling and anti-privacy, turning customers into money generating assets. Power is shifting to centralized technology rather than decentralized technology. It's a huge problem, one which will only become worse as the next few years (decades) go on. I rather not see Linux fail in giving freedom to the people, and most of all, not because of some people wanting to feel "elite". So I'm definitely on the same page as you, I apologize for the misunderstanding. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/f9ac7056-f20d-4b14-9364-c41fdcff360c%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
