At 12:22 PM 2/13/2002 -0800, Doc wrote: >--- Jonathan Trower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 10:18 AM 2/13/2002 -0800, Doc wrote: > > > > > > Where do you start? > > >--------------------- > > > > > >*I'd start by makeing it clear that the Outpost is going to > > >hold it's meetings off the Church sight in the Community. > > > > Why? What do you accomplish by "hiding" the fact that Royal Rangers is a > > church-based, church-sponsored, Christ-centered ministry to boys? > >I'm not 'dodgeing/HIDEING!. I'm promoteing success, and it's >Hypothetical<G> put on yur "outside of the box" thinking hat! > >Royal Rangers is going to do what it wants anyway<G> *I'm kick'n >the can down the alley.. > >My thinking is that a great Outpost needs to have it's Leadership >re-freshed and re-placed as it grows, *If one church is good for >30 years of Commanders then by all means, do it in-house. > >But with a Communuity based Outpost you may bring several churches >togather for the one purpose called "Royal Rangers". At OP207 we >had Commander from 4 churches.. Not every RR backer is AoG anymore.. >RR has a LARGER foot print.
Agreed that leadership is a problem in many outposts. But a community-based outpost that draws leadership from several churches will suffer from the fact that there is no oversight of such a ministry. To whom do they answer? In BSA, the answer is each troop answers to your organizational structure (sorry, my ignorance of the proper terms is going to be evident here). But we don't have that same oversight structure in Royal Rangers or the Assemblies of God. I would contend that any ministry needs to be accountable to someone. It should not be just a few men out with the boys somewhere doing whatever they want. I was involved in an outreach ministry in my local community for several years. It was "outside the church" -- leaders came from several different churches. We had a board of directors that included our sectional presbyter and other pastors from the section. But the ministry still ultimately failed -- no one took "ownership" of the ministry. Finding workers from 3-4 churches was as difficult as finding workers from one (in fact, it was most successful when one church did take ownership of the ministry for a while -- the pastor helped marshal the needed workers on a weekly basis). Finding financial resources was another problem, though not the reason the ministry failed. But without a parent church, none of the churches were willing to provide the financial support the ministry needed. We would still be in 'business >if the AG Church had'nt let a Childrens Pastor run up our backs. >(*In Love..<G>) I regret the day he was hired.. Sr.Pastor handed >it all over to him without our consultation, and fresh out of >College he started to shut us down. One excellent RR Outpost.. >bit the dirt. > This is why the thread of discussion going on right now on RangerNet on the importance of the pastor supporting the Royal Rangers ministry is so important. But remember, if the pastor is the key to the success of the Royal Rangers ministry, what will be the key when you make it a community-based program? Who will be the key to the success then? Again, Royal Rangers does not have the hierarchy in place that BSA has to help assure individual troops are successful and self-perpetuating. > Even > > many > > Boy Scout troops meet in their host church's building. > >The Church building is fine if it comes with few strings attached<G> >Honestly, it isn't needed. A hall, gym, big room is enough. >It can even rotate locations <G> You need a room for each age group . . . with supplies, etc. Most churches have the facilities that are needed. And by holding your meetings at the church, it helps establish in the minds of the boys and parents that Royal Rangers is a Christ-centered organization. >*Yup.. Troop328 meets at Walnut Grove Church and Walnut Grove >School, but has 12 different church's members as leaders. It's >Charter is held by Columbia machine.. (*Scoutmasters Co.) and >the result is very little influence or *Funding from any single >source outside the "parent committe". This is very wholesome. > >IMHO Funding = *control.. and a well run OutPost does not need >micro-management outside of it's membership. *Control needs to >be in the hands of the parents who "employ" the Scoutmaster. "Control" (oversight is a better word) of a ministry falls to the pastor, who was called of God to provide spiritual leadership to the church. As I said above, we need to be accountable to someone in everything we do. If we turn control over to the parents, what guarantee do we have that the mission of Reaching, Teaching, and Keeping Boys for Christ will remain the mission? If you get enough unchurched parents involved, they may decide to dump the four red points, and the last of the blue points, and the beginning phrase of our pledge, etc. Then what type of program would you have . . . ? > This is a vital > > part > > of the Royal Rangers program/ministry, and I would strongly discourage a > > movement to take Royal Rangers out of the church setting. > >*I disagree, but that's me<G> > >I think there's lots of potential for growth if RR embraces the >direction that AG Men's fellowship went to become "Honor Bound >men of Promise" *To me that makes sence.. But HonorBound is a church-based men's ministry group. That's where their ministry starts, and that's where it's based (at least, that's the way it looks to me from their web site -- http://honorbound.ag.org/honorbound/). Yes, they do have activities outside the church building, but that's not the focus of their ministry. The focus of their ministry is in building men to be men of God, good fathers, and workers IN THE CHURCH. > This is not to > > > > say that you shouldn't reach out to the community. I'm a strong advocate > > of > > reaching into your community and using Royal Rangers as one of the hooks > > to > > bring folks into the church (the other ministries -- Missionettes, > > Youth, > > Children's Church, Sunday School, etc. -- serving as some of the other > > hooks). > >*This "hook" theology has some barbs.. > >If you have been a churchman long enough, you know that their >is competiton between 'ministries and *I'm just a Royal Ranger<G> That's a problem, and has been for years. One of the things we focused on in writing Ranger Basics (the new introductory module for the Leadership Training Academy in the new Royal Rangers program) is the fact that Royal Rangers has to work within the church, in cooperation with the other ministries, and under the spiritual guidance of the pastor and church board. This is a major theme in the organizational structure session in Ranger Basics. It also comes through loud and clear in the new Leaders Manual. > But don't try to hide the fact that Royal Rangers is based in > > and sponsored by your church. > >There you go- "HIDE?" I think you want me to Promote the CHURCH >at the exspence of a successful group of boys who come togather >to be Royal Rangers.. I want to make sure that Royal Rangers remains the Christ-centered ministry that it was created to be. I want to make sure we promote Jesus Christ, not just a successful Royal Rangers program. > > > > >Let the YOUTH go to both RR and Uth church.. > > > > Agreed. Find some way for boys to be in both (and for girls to be in > > both > > Youth and Missionettes). > >*Right- Off sight, and another night and PUSH involvement in the Uth! > T328 meets Monday night.. many church groups meet Tues. Wed. night.. >*I also added.. LET RANGER KIDS be there for the "baby sitting aspect" >in the church. Ranger Kids is not designed for baby sitting! I never thought the wonderful things that your wife did with Buckaroos was baby sitting, and I bet she didn't either! Ranger Kids is designed to minister to the younger boys at their level, just as Straight Arrows and Buckaroos have done for many years. And there is no reason to assume that Wednesday night belongs to the youth. I would contend that Friday or Saturday night makes more sense for youth meetings, and Wednesday night belongs to Royal Rangers and Missionettes. I can go into my logic on that one in another message sometime. > > > > > > >I'd ask permission and seek the blessing of the Church board > > >to also contact BSA and charter as a "Church based youth orginization" > > >under the Venture scout program, so as to be welcome to use > > >their camps and facilities in the region. I'd be honest to the > > >BSA as to what my agenda was, and agree to what they suggest > > >practical to meet both programs policies. > > > > I've known Royal Rangers groups who have done this, and for some > > settings > > it works. But you really need to decide what you want to be -- Royal > > Rangers or BSA. The two groups are different, period. You can't do both > > effectively. Access to the BSA facilities and training are valuable, I > > agree. But be careful about any compromise you may have to make in the > > Royal Rangers program to also try to be BSA. > >*Agreed- so...true! > >I happen to know however this can work. there is much >intrest on the BSA side to build on the core of faith that church >involvement brings to BSA. > > > > > ><snip> > > > > >*Then we would meet at a Outdoor campfire as a group, and sing > > >some silly songs and lead into some reflective songs ect. > > > > How about some Christian praise and worship songs? > >Well HECK YA! *But Commander Johnnie used to sing nonsence songs, >we sang "when the donkeys hungry" *What happened to permission >to sing ALL the songs in the Royal Ranger song book? Sorry to jump to a conclusion . . . of course, silly songs are appropriate, at the beginning of a council fire service. But as the flames die down, and as you begin to make the shift to the spiritual portion of the service, in come the praise and worship songs. That's what we were all taught in the LTC. > > > > >Then a *BRIEF GENERIC DEVOTION *closed by a Group cheer! > > > > What? Why a "brief generic devotion?" What about closing in prayer. We > > are > > Royal Rangers . . . not BSA. We should have nothing to be ashamed about > > when presenting the gospel. After all, our mission statement is to > > "Reach, > > Teach, and Keep boy for Christ." And if this is the first meeting boys > > come > > to, it may be the only one. . . shouldn't we take the opportunity to > > present the plan of salvation to them? I don't mean push it down their > > throats, but boys and parents should know what Royal Rangers are and > > what > > we stand for. A "generic devotion" followed by a group cheer doesn't do > > that. > >Gee Jonathan.. I guess you are right. > >I'm going to sit down on the grass and let you be "Sr.Commander" >I'm tired.. > >With 24 hour Christian TV and churches on every corner, we just >need to preach Jesus to boys. They probley have never heard the >"Gospel" and we need to be sure they know that they are not at >some "secular BSA" group. Are you going to try to tell me that every boy in this country has already heard about Jesus, and there is therefore no reason for us to bring up the subject? I was in a service in a neighboring church Sunday night, and three of their kids FROM THE CHURCH responded to the altar call for salvation! I personally think we need to be presenting the Gospel to the boys every chance we get. After all, isn't this the single biggest thing that differentiates Royal Rangers from BSA? I know, I know . . . in BSA you can bring it up if you want, but in Royal Rangers the Gospel is central to all that we do. > > > > > What items do you buy? > > > > > >$10,000 seems too much funding.. > > > > Take the money and run! <G> You will eventually need it. > >Nope- don't need it. > >Royal Ranger is best when it's SELF-Funded and self-per-pet-u-ating! Unfortunately in most churches that means "commander-funded" and continually "under-funded," or the commanders end up spending too much of their time doing fund raisers, which adds to their workload and ultimately contributes to commander burnout. If the church can hire a full-time youth pastor and pay for the Sunday School literature each quarter, the church can help fund Royal Rangers, Missionettes, Children's Church, etc. too. Jonathan > > > > > > >Humm.. *Now I'd buy some OP numbers, > > >Patrol boxes and camp cooking stuff.. but zero tents! > > > > > >This is just me, but I'd hand the GPH catalog to the parent and > > >tell then I'm not in the dry goods business<G> > > > > > >T-shirt is fine with me to start. > > > > The uniform has great value, and should be encouraged. I'm surprised at > > this one . . . what would a BSA troop be without their uniforms? > >*Because the original qustion is reguarding starting a RR outpost! >RR Boys don't need a uniform to be taught about Jesus. > >*I thought a uniform could be decided by the local Outpost pending >it's involvement in Dist. events..? > > > I don't > > > > necessarily advocate providing the entire uniform to every boy, even if > > you > > can afford it, but I personally think it's nice when the outpost > > encourages > > uniforms and helps facilitate them, especially for boys who truly can't > > afford one. > > > > Jonathan > >*Thanks Cdr.Jonathan.. > >*Good chat<G> >Doc > > > > > > > >Doc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Jonathan Trower > > South Central Region Training Coordinator > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > phone: 254-420-1941 > > RR homepage: http://mis.baylor.edu/trower > > > > _______ > > Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. > > > > Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ > > > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm > > http://rangernet.org > > >===== >*High MORALE is the Index of effective Leadership. >--------------********+********-------------------- >Morale raises belief of the Leader in the follower, >of the follower in the Leader, of each in themself, >and both in the .....cause! > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! >http://greetings.yahoo.com >_______ > Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. > > Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm > http://rangernet.org __________________________________ Jonathan Trower South Central Region Training Coordinator e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 254-420-1941 RR homepage: http://mis.baylor.edu/trower _______ Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm http://rangernet.org
