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> Agreed that leadership is a problem in many outposts. But a > community-based > outpost that draws leadership from several churches will suffer from the > > fact that there is no oversight of such a ministry. To whom do they > answer? *When we held a Sectional event we came from 5 different churches.. some were chartered some not, some leaders were trained and "on record" and some were not.. Yes that isn't "perfect" but what we found is that togather we had several great Devotions from different perspectives and the boys got the best of 5 different outposts. OK I'll go real slow<G> "Each Commander played a stringed instrument, and when we came togather we had a Country bluegrass band" While "Oversight" as a Sectional event was with the Dist. (*175 miles north) We never had a "problem".. We self-regulated and corrected as needed. Apart.. some Outpost's struggled as mearly one family doing it all. thus.. no advancement, no ideas, no resources. > In BSA, the answer is each troop answers to your organizational > structure > (sorry, my ignorance of the proper terms is going to be evident here). Yes- the Troop answers to the Parents of the scouts who may elect to *fire the Scoutmaster, and *hire a new one. I'm thinking this is a good idea, as it becomes a partnership in the intrest of parents to oversee the direction of the troop. The accountibility, also extends to the chartering organization, a "Church" and at the time of "joining" you are made aware of the affiliation with AoG and it's doctrine as *That is central to RR values. > But > we don't have that same oversight structure in Royal Rangers or the > Assemblies of God. I would contend that any ministry needs to be > accountable to someone. It should not be just a few men out with the > boys > somewhere doing whatever they want. "Whatever they want"- I sure agree there.. and that the case with many RR outposts today. like sunday school teachers, the Church don't "oversee" untill a problem comes up.. then the best intrests of RR goes under the "authority" of someone who didn't really care what was going on. Oversight means involvement.. That's at odds with the RR tradition of "Core group management" *I'm proposeing a "Patrol methoid" of Leadership oversight by people involved and associated with several kindred churches. > > I was involved in an outreach ministry in my local community for several > > years. It was "outside the church" -- leaders came from several > different > churches. We had a board of directors that included our sectional > presbyter > and other pastors from the section. But the ministry still ultimately > failed -- no one took "ownership" of the ministry. Finding workers from > 3-4 > churches was as difficult as finding workers from one (in fact, it was > most > successful when one church did take ownership of the ministry for a > while > -- the pastor helped marshal the needed workers on a weekly basis). > Finding > financial resources was another problem, though not the reason the > ministry > failed. But without a parent church, none of the churches were willing > to > provide the financial support the ministry needed. Stand on your two feet or fold shop.. Troop 328 has zero guarentees that it won't fold next week. Zero budget.. and zero ability to find and recruit "new" Leaders.. *and zero intrest in perserveing a dead Troop. Who want's to fight for a dead Outpost? The Troop does have 65 boys and 25 Adult leaders, and it pays it's own way. > > > We would still be in 'business > >if the AG Church had'nt let a Childrens Pastor run up our backs. > >(*In Love..<G>) I regret the day he was hired.. Sr.Pastor handed > >it all over to him without our consultation, and fresh out of > >College he started to shut us down. One excellent RR Outpost.. > >bit the dirt. > > > > This is why the thread of discussion going on right now on RangerNet on > the > importance of the pastor supporting the Royal Rangers ministry is so > important. But remember, if the pastor is the key to the success of the > Royal Rangers ministry, what will be the key when you make it a > community-based program? Yea.. *I suspect a Good Pastor of my Community based Outpost is going to be somewhat liberal in takeing credit for it's success<G> This dosen't seem to be a problem to me, I continue to think that the boys are the key element, *their passion for membership in a alive unit and the pastor will "follow" as all GOOD LEADERS DO! Who will be the key to the success then? Again, > > Royal Rangers does not have the hierarchy in place that BSA has to help > assure individual troops are successful and self-perpetuating. Huh.. You'd think with 40 years of Ranger success that former RR leaders would be still wearing Ranger hats and chummy with the current crop of RR Leaders<G> Now if RR were about building leaders from the ground up, then a perpetuation of RR leadership would be no problem. That is what BSA succeds at.. *It is zero "sweat factor" to ba an adult leader of a boy run Troop. Another ting- *very interesting... At the several Eagle courts, I've seen..the Scout get's a "letter" like the GMA does from the National office. This just goes in his packet of plunder, and the real tear jerker is when Mom and Dad come up and Scoutmaster reads his record. Scouts don't "care" who the national personality is.. because your troop "life" is king Cong<G> > > > Even > > > many > > > Boy Scout troops meet in their host church's building. > > > >The Church building is fine if it comes with few strings attached<G> > >Honestly, it isn't needed. A hall, gym, big room is enough. > >It can even rotate locations <G> > > You need a room for each age group . . . with supplies, etc. Most > churches > have the facilities that are needed. And by holding your meetings at the > > church, it helps establish in the minds of the boys and parents that > Royal Rangers is a Christ-centered organization. That's what they say... > > > >*Yup.. Troop328 meets at Walnut Grove Church and Walnut Grove > >School, but has 12 different church's members as leaders. It's > >Charter is held by Columbia machine.. (*Scoutmasters Co.) and > >the result is very little influence or *Funding from any single > >source outside the "parent committe". This is very wholesome. > > > >IMHO Funding = *control.. and a well run OutPost does not need > >micro-management outside of it's membership. *Control needs to > >be in the hands of the parents who "employ" the Scoutmaster. > > "Control" (oversight is a better word) of a ministry falls to the > pastor, > who was called of God to provide spiritual leadership to the church. As > I > said above, we need to be accountable to someone in everything we do. If > we > turn control over to the parents, what guarantee do we have that the > mission of Reaching, Teaching, and Keeping Boys for Christ will remain > the > mission? If you get enough unchurched parents involved, they may decide > to > dump the four red points, and the last of the blue points, and the > beginning phrase of our pledge, etc. Then what type of program would you > > have . . . ? *Well.. I want to please you, tow the line, follow the LTC.. but I have to say that local "control" beats anything on paper, and some of these "Beliefs" are just "what-if logs to hurddle" I can do that if the goal is a successful Outpost, but if I have to worry that Pastor don't like the PARENTS haveing a say in things, then I got Porsches to build in the garage.<G> It's like the so-called "National Policy" preventing Women serveing as leaders. *It's bogus.. But stick your head up to say so, and you'll get a scalp job closer than the Blackfeet can give!<G> It's the tone of the hands on leadership that set's the mark for MORALE and we all know that is critical. When I explain all this "hyerarchy" stuff to the boys they go asleep. *I think they are more important anyway.. so I think I'll go work for them and let the chips fall where thay may. If it's a good Idea, the idea it's self will fly without me pushing.. > > > > > This is a vital > > > part > > > of the Royal Rangers program/ministry, and I would strongly > discourage a > > > movement to take Royal Rangers out of the church setting. > > > >*I disagree, but that's me<G> > > > >I think there's lots of potential for growth if RR embraces the > >direction that AG Men's fellowship went to become "Honor Bound > >men of Promise" *To me that makes sence.. > > But HonorBound is a church-based men's ministry group. That's where > their ministry starts, and that's where it's based (at least, that's the way > it > looks to me from their web site -- > http://honorbound.ag.org/honorbound/). Yup, and RR isn't under it any more eather... When it was.. there was the thought that RR could expand into churches that are kindred in spirit to the Promise keeper movement. *I might have heard Cdr.Marriot say that<G> > Yes, they do have activities outside the church building, but that's not > > the focus of their ministry. The focus of their ministry is in building > men > to be men of God, good fathers, and workers IN THE CHURCH. Well there's a source for Leaders if we don't want the boys to learn leadership by hands-on Patrol method.. ala NTC. > > > This is not to > > > > > > say that you shouldn't reach out to the community. I'm a strong > advocate > > > of > > > reaching into your community and using Royal Rangers as one of the > hooks > > > to > > > bring folks into the church (the other ministries -- Missionettes, > > > Youth, > > > Children's Church, Sunday School, etc. -- serving as some of the > other > > > hooks). > > > >*This "hook" theology has some barbs.. > > > >If you have been a churchman long enough, you know that their > >is competiton between 'ministries and *I'm just a Royal Ranger<G> > > That's a problem, and has been for years. One of the things we focused > on > in writing Ranger Basics (the new introductory module for the Leadership > > Training Academy in the new Royal Rangers program) is the fact that > Royal > Rangers has to work within the church, in cooperation with the other > ministries, and under the spiritual guidance of the pastor and church > board. This is a major theme in the organizational structure session in > Ranger Basics. It also comes through loud and clear in the new Leaders > Manual. Yah.. *I'm reading the writeing on the BIG TALLY BOARD<g> A Outpost of 6 boys has to stay loyal to a church of 3,000 when a church of 300 has an Outpost of 50 boys<G> Good Chat- Time for Coffee<G> *Love you Jonathan- You go good! Doc > > > > But don't try to hide the fact that Royal Rangers is based in > > > and sponsored by your church. > > > >There you go- "HIDE?" I think you want me to Promote the CHURCH > >at the exspence of a successful group of boys who come togather > >to be Royal Rangers.. > > I want to make sure that Royal Rangers remains the Christ-centered > ministry > that it was created to be. I want to make sure we promote Jesus Christ, > not > just a successful Royal Rangers program. > === message truncated === ===== *High MORALE is the Index of effective Leadership. --------------********+********-------------------- Morale raises belief of the Leader in the follower, of the follower in the Leader, of each in themself, and both in the .....cause! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______ Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm http://rangernet.org
