We've devolved into the scout/stat argument again. Here is the real issue in making the decision to trade Ellsbury for Adrian Gonzalez:
Power>Speed. -- Matt ________________________________ From: Ray Salemi <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 11:46:29 AM Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? I am ashamed. On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: Chain of Command was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode.....c'mon people. > > > > >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > >"Stat's are valuable" First time I've ever heard you utter that phrase on >this list. >> >>And whodoesn't want to hear about Deep Space Nine? (That was an obscure >>reference. Good job!) >> >> >> >>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Beaudoin, John <[email protected]> >>wrote: >> >>If you’re going to use my name, then please don’t speak for me and say that I >>dismiss stats completely. I fully admit they are valuable and my point, yet >>again, is that some people look only at the stats. Why can’t someone say >>that they like the way a guy plays. Based on Pedroia’s statiscal body size >>and weight, he shouldn’t have been given a chance. Thank God there are >>scouts who see beyond stats. Or will you argue that weight and height are not >>stats? >>> >>>How can you possibly say that objective counting says that Ellsbury doesn’t >>>get to as many balls? And who the heck wants to hear about Star Trek Deep >>>Space Nine during a baseball discussion? How many players compared to >>>Ellsbury in centerfield have to play in a ballpark with a friggin triangle >>>and a center field that is laid out just like Fenway Park? Because of all >>>the variables in baseball, you can’t draw concrete conclusions. You’re >>>entitled to your opinion, but you should not tell me my opinion and then >>>argue against it. Stats are valuable, but they are only a piece of what I >>>use to form my opinions. I believe that others on here talk stats all the >>>time and I don’t use anything but stats to form their opinions. Or am I to >>>believe that the few people on here who think Ellsbury isn’t as good a >>>centerfielder as JD Drew is a rightfielder must be smarter than … say … 95% >>>of the fans of baseball? >>> >>>John >>> >>> ________________________________ >>>From:[email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Salemi >>>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:47 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? >>> >>>I think Bill James would be unhappy to hear his name used this way. >>>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM, William Marino <[email protected]> >>>wrote: >>>I will take a good scout, with a proven track record, over Bill James any >>>day of the week. >>> >>>I got to see Bill James speak at the Museum of Science and I asked him a >>>question about this topic. I asked him if teams go through all this >>>statistical analysis, but then make the decision based on the opinion that >>>"he has a pretty swing." >>> >>>Bill James actually batted me down a bit in his answer. He said that he >>>felt this question of stats vs. scouts was a false question. He believes >>>that while stats are valuable, and need to be used, that scouts have >>>thousands of hours of experience and also know what they are talking about. >>> >>>John's mistake has been to dismiss stats completely, as he did earlier in >>>the thread. Stats provide insight. They especially provide insight to >>>those of use who do not have thousands of hours watching ballplayers and who >>>don't watch them every day. Fans are especially prone to only remember >>>plays that support their opinion. >>> >>>John claims that Ellbury gets to more balls than most players, but objective >>>counting says Ellsbury doesn't. In this case, intuition has to give way to >>>counting. I'm sorry, but no amount of intuition will make the number four >>>into the number five (even if you are being tortured by a Cardassian >>>sadist). >>> >>> >>>-- >>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>"Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>[email protected]. >>>For more options, visit this group at >>>http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>"Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>[email protected]. >>>For more options, visit this group at >>>http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >>-- >>Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just >>12 Weeks" >>www.leadingafteralayoff.com >> >> >> >>--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>"Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >>To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>[email protected]. >>For more options, visit this group at >>http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > >--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"Red Sox Citizens" group. >To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >[email protected]. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > -- Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just 12 Weeks" www.leadingafteralayoff.com --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en.
