But is Power> Speed + Young No. 2/3 starter? I still say yes.
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Matt & Olga McSorley <[email protected] > wrote: > We've devolved into the scout/stat argument again. Here is the real issue > in making the decision to trade Ellsbury for Adrian Gonzalez: > > Power>Speed. > > -- Matt > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ray Salemi <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Fri, December 18, 2009 11:46:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: Dealing Ellsbury? > > I am ashamed. > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Chain of Command was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode.....c'mon >> people. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> "Stat's are valuable" First time I've ever heard you utter that phrase >>> on this list. >>> >>> And who* doesn't *want to hear about Deep Space Nine? (That was an >>> obscure reference. Good job!) >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Beaudoin, John < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> If you’re going to use my name, then please don’t speak for me and say >>>> that I dismiss stats completely. I fully admit they are valuable and my >>>> point, yet again, is that some people look only at the stats. Why can’t >>>> someone say that they like the way a guy plays. Based on Pedroia’s >>>> statiscal body size and weight, he shouldn’t have been given a chance. >>>> Thank God there are scouts who see beyond stats. Or will you argue that >>>> weight and height are not stats? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How can you possibly say that objective counting says that Ellsbury >>>> doesn’t get to as many balls? And who the heck wants to hear about Star >>>> Trek Deep Space Nine during a baseball discussion? How many players >>>> compared to Ellsbury in centerfield have to play in a ballpark with a >>>> friggin triangle and a center field that is laid out just like Fenway Park? >>>> Because of all the variables in baseball, you can’t draw concrete >>>> conclusions. You’re entitled to your opinion, but you should not tell me >>>> my >>>> opinion and then argue against it. Stats are valuable, but they are only a >>>> piece of what I use to form my opinions. I believe that others on here >>>> talk >>>> stats all the time and I don’t use anything but stats to form their >>>> opinions. Or am I to believe that the few people on here who think >>>> Ellsbury >>>> isn’t as good a centerfielder as JD Drew is a rightfielder must be smarter >>>> than … say … 95% of the fans of baseball? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ray Salemi >>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:47 AM >>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>> *Subject:* Re: Dealing Ellsbury? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I think Bill James would be unhappy to hear his name used this way. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM, William Marino < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I will take a good scout, with a proven track record, over Bill James >>>> any day of the week. >>>> >>>> >>>> I got to see Bill James speak at the Museum of Science and I asked him a >>>> question about this topic. I asked him if teams go through all this >>>> statistical analysis, but then make the decision based on the opinion that >>>> "he has a pretty swing." >>>> >>>> Bill James actually batted me down a bit in his answer. He said that he >>>> felt this question of stats vs. scouts was a false question. He believes >>>> that while stats are valuable, and need to be used, that scouts have >>>> thousands of hours of experience and also know what they are talking about. >>>> >>>> John's mistake has been to dismiss stats completely, as he did earlier >>>> in the thread. Stats provide insight. They especially provide insight to >>>> those of use who do not have thousands of hours watching ballplayers and >>>> who >>>> don't watch them every day. Fans are especially prone to only remember >>>> plays that support their opinion. >>>> >>>> John claims that Ellbury gets to more balls than most players, but >>>> objective counting says Ellsbury doesn't. In this case, intuition has to >>>> give way to counting. I'm sorry, but no amount of intuition will make the >>>> number four into the number five (even if you are being tortured by a >>>> Cardassian sadist). >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in >>> Just 12 Weeks" >>> www.leadingafteralayoff.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in > Just 12 Weeks" > www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. 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