Damn. "Hits the ball farther."
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > It's actually worse than Power/Speed. It's hitting speed. > > here are the BA/OBA/SLG/OPS numbers for both from last year. > > Ellsbury: > > .301 .355 .415 .770 > > Gonzalez: > .277 .407 .551 .958 > No contest. > > Gonzalez gets on base more often and hit's the ball further. > > Ray > > PS. This is a great example of the limitations of batting average. > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Matt & Olga McSorley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> We've devolved into the scout/stat argument again. Here is the real issue >> in making the decision to trade Ellsbury for Adrian Gonzalez: >> >> Power>Speed. >> >> -- Matt >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Ray Salemi <[email protected]> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Sent:* Fri, December 18, 2009 11:46:29 AM >> *Subject:* Re: Dealing Ellsbury? >> >> I am ashamed. >> >> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Chain of Command was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode.....c'mon >>> people. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> "Stat's are valuable" First time I've ever heard you utter that phrase >>>> on this list. >>>> >>>> And who* doesn't *want to hear about Deep Space Nine? (That was an >>>> obscure reference. Good job!) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Beaudoin, John < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> If you’re going to use my name, then please don’t speak for me and >>>>> say that I dismiss stats completely. I fully admit they are valuable and >>>>> my >>>>> point, yet again, is that some people look only at the stats. Why can’t >>>>> someone say that they like the way a guy plays. Based on Pedroia’s >>>>> statiscal body size and weight, he shouldn’t have been given a chance. >>>>> Thank God there are scouts who see beyond stats. Or will you argue that >>>>> weight and height are not stats? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How can you possibly say that objective counting says that Ellsbury >>>>> doesn’t get to as many balls? And who the heck wants to hear about Star >>>>> Trek Deep Space Nine during a baseball discussion? How many players >>>>> compared to Ellsbury in centerfield have to play in a ballpark with a >>>>> friggin triangle and a center field that is laid out just like Fenway >>>>> Park? >>>>> Because of all the variables in baseball, you can’t draw concrete >>>>> conclusions. You’re entitled to your opinion, but you should not tell me >>>>> my >>>>> opinion and then argue against it. Stats are valuable, but they are only >>>>> a >>>>> piece of what I use to form my opinions. I believe that others on here >>>>> talk >>>>> stats all the time and I don’t use anything but stats to form their >>>>> opinions. Or am I to believe that the few people on here who think >>>>> Ellsbury >>>>> isn’t as good a centerfielder as JD Drew is a rightfielder must be smarter >>>>> than … say … 95% of the fans of baseball? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ray Salemi >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:47 AM >>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>> *Subject:* Re: Dealing Ellsbury? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think Bill James would be unhappy to hear his name used this way. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM, William Marino < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I will take a good scout, with a proven track record, over Bill James >>>>> any day of the week. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I got to see Bill James speak at the Museum of Science and I asked him >>>>> a question about this topic. I asked him if teams go through all this >>>>> statistical analysis, but then make the decision based on the opinion that >>>>> "he has a pretty swing." >>>>> >>>>> Bill James actually batted me down a bit in his answer. He said that >>>>> he felt this question of stats vs. scouts was a false question. He >>>>> believes >>>>> that while stats are valuable, and need to be used, that scouts have >>>>> thousands of hours of experience and also know what they are talking >>>>> about. >>>>> >>>>> John's mistake has been to dismiss stats completely, as he did earlier >>>>> in the thread. Stats provide insight. They especially provide insight to >>>>> those of use who do not have thousands of hours watching ballplayers and >>>>> who >>>>> don't watch them every day. Fans are especially prone to only remember >>>>> plays that support their opinion. >>>>> >>>>> John claims that Ellbury gets to more balls than most players, but >>>>> objective counting says Ellsbury doesn't. In this case, intuition has to >>>>> give way to counting. I'm sorry, but no amount of intuition will make the >>>>> number four into the number five (even if you are being tortured by a >>>>> Cardassian sadist). >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in >>>> Just 12 Weeks" >>>> www.leadingafteralayoff.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in >> Just 12 Weeks" >> www.leadingafteralayoff.com >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in > Just 12 Weeks" > www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > > -- Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just 12 Weeks" www.leadingafteralayoff.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. 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