Yes, Tom, you're right, but I suspect Buchholz is a 2/3 starter at best. He might be more of a 3/4. With the way the Sox develop pitching I think that loss is fairly easy to overcome.
________________________________ From: Ray Salemi <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 12:05:27 PM Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? It's actually worse than Power/Speed. It's hitting speed. here are the BA/OBA/SLG/OPS numbers for both from last year. Ellsbury: .301 .355 .415 .770 Gonzalez: .277 .407 .551 .958 No contest. Gonzalez gets on base more often and hit's the ball further. Ray PS. This is a great example of the limitations of batting average. On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Matt & Olga McSorley <[email protected]> wrote: We've devolved into the scout/stat argument again. Here is the real issue in making the decision to trade Ellsbury for Adrian Gonzalez: > >Power>Speed. > >-- Matt > > > > ________________________________ From: Ray Salemi <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 11:46:29 AM >Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? > > >I am ashamed. > > >On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > >Chain of Command was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode.....c'mon >people. >> >> >> >> >>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>"Stat's are valuable" First time I've ever heard you utter that phrase on >>this list. >>> >>>And whodoesn't want to hear about Deep Space Nine? (That was an obscure >>>reference. Good job!) >>> >>> >>> >>>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Beaudoin, John <[email protected]> >>>wrote: >>> >>>If you’re going to use my name, then please don’t speak for me and say that >>>I dismiss stats completely. I fully admit they are valuable and my point, >>>yet again, is that some people look only at the stats. Why can’t someone >>>say that they like the way a guy plays. Based on Pedroia’s statiscal body >>>size and weight, he shouldn’t have been given a chance. Thank God there are >>>scouts who see beyond stats. Or will you argue that weight and height are >>>not stats? >>>> >>>>How can you possibly say that objective counting says that Ellsbury doesn’t >>>>get to as many balls? And who the heck wants to hear about Star Trek Deep >>>>Space Nine during a baseball discussion? How many players compared to >>>>Ellsbury in centerfield have to play in a ballpark with a friggin triangle >>>>and a center field that is laid out just like Fenway Park? Because of all >>>>the variables in baseball, you can’t draw concrete conclusions. You’re >>>>entitled to your opinion, but you should not tell me my opinion and then >>>>argue against it. Stats are valuable, but they are only a piece of what I >>>>use to form my opinions. I believe that others on here talk stats all the >>>>time and I don’t use anything but stats to form their opinions. Or am I to >>>>believe that the few people on here who think Ellsbury isn’t as good a >>>>centerfielder as JD Drew is a rightfielder must be smarter than … say … 95% >>>>of the fans of baseball? >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>>From:[email protected] >>>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Salemi >>>>Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:47 AM >>>>To: [email protected] >>>>Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? >>>> >>>>I think Bill James would be unhappy to hear his name used this way. >>>>On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM, William Marino <[email protected]> >>>>wrote: >>>>I will take a good scout, with a proven track record, over Bill James any >>>>day of the week. >>>> >>>>I got to see Bill James speak at the Museum of Science and I asked him a >>>>question about this topic. I asked him if teams go through all this >>>>statistical analysis, but then make the decision based on the opinion that >>>>"he has a pretty swing." >>>> >>>>Bill James actually batted me down a bit in his answer. He said that he >>>>felt this question of stats vs. scouts was a false question. He believes >>>>that while stats are valuable, and need to be used, that scouts have >>>>thousands of hours of experience and also know what they are talking about. >>>> >>>>John's mistake has been to dismiss stats completely, as he did earlier in >>>>the thread. Stats provide insight. They especially provide insight to >>>>those of use who do not have thousands of hours watching ballplayers and >>>>who don't watch them every day. Fans are especially prone to only remember >>>>plays that support their opinion. >>>> >>>>John claims that Ellbury gets to more balls than most players, but >>>>objective counting says Ellsbury doesn't. In this case, intuition has to >>>>give way to counting. I'm sorry, but no amount of intuition will make the >>>>number four into the number five (even if you are being tortured by a >>>>Cardassian sadist). >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>"Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>>To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>[email protected]. >>>>For more options, visit this group at >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>>--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>"Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>>To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>[email protected]. >>>>For more options, visit this group at >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just >>>12 Weeks" >>>www.leadingafteralayoff.com >>> >>> >>> >>>--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>"Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> >>>To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>[email protected]. >>>For more options, visit this group at >>>http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >> >>--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>"Red Sox Citizens" group. >>To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>[email protected]. >>For more options, visit this group at >>http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > > >-- >Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just >12 Weeks" >www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > > >--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"Red Sox Citizens" group. >To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >[email protected]. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"Red Sox Citizens" group. >To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >[email protected]. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > -- Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just 12 Weeks" www.leadingafteralayoff.com --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en.
