Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

[Robert Andrews]

My cherry was broken by an IBM 370 ( a 360 that had been hand wired to 
virtual memory in 73 ) programming in Fortran.  We also rubbed sticks 
together to make fire...


On 5/3/24 10:51, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
First computer I actually programmed was an altair 8080 programmed with 
the front panel switches.
First computer I ever touched and played with was a terminal connected 
to a mainframe somewhere in a science museum in Oregon.  It had a moon 
lander simulator on it.


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 11:24 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

I programmed the first computers I worked on in binary. You would
fat-finger instructions in through the front console, one bit at a time.

bp


On 5/3/2024 10:12 AM, Larry Smith via AF wrote:

On Fri May 3 2024 11:37, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

At least I am not older than FORmula TRANslation or Common Business
Oriented Language.

Hmmm, I programmed in both





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Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats....

[Robert Andrews]

8:03  !!

On 5/1/24 10:20, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Just barely.  I am looking more like Wilford Brimley every day.  Right 
when they pretty much gave up on getting it started.




Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 11:06 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats

Didn't see you in the vid, was hoping you would be...

On 5/1/24 09:36, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
That's my son Ben in there talking about what we do here.  He pretty 
much runs the show.  I am just the old dog wandering from office to 
office looking for snacks.


-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:55 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats

So it dropped... will have to take a look.  Thanks.



www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
-Original Message- From: Robert
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:36 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: [AFMUG] Fab Rats

Watching my youtubes this am and Fab Rats goes to pick up an airport tug
and the fellow in the video says "We build microtrenching equipment" (
Fab Rats is in Utah ) and I glimpse a bit of what looks like the MTC
logo and sure enough   MTC is on youtube...





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Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats....

[Robert Andrews]

Didn't see you in the vid, was hoping you would be...

On 5/1/24 09:36, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
That's my son Ben in there talking about what we do here.  He pretty 
much runs the show.  I am just the old dog wandering from office to 
office looking for snacks.


-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:55 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats

So it dropped... will have to take a look.  Thanks.



www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
-Original Message- From: Robert
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:36 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: [AFMUG] Fab Rats

Watching my youtubes this am and Fab Rats goes to pick up an airport tug
and the fellow in the video says "We build microtrenching equipment" (
Fab Rats is in Utah ) and I glimpse a bit of what looks like the MTC
logo and sure enough   MTC is on youtube...



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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Robert Andrews]

Not all lithium is the same...  Tesla has careful temperature controls 
to manage their packs.  And are subject to thermal runaway.  LFP 
batteries ( I can't say completely ) are not so subject to thermal 
runaway.  Running them inside a house is much safer than any other 
Lithium chemistry.


 I have a 24v 400 AH pack running power for my server rack, which all 
run with 24v power supplies.   Inside my office.  Not worried much about 
it as long as nobody shorts it out behind the fuses.


Other chemistries are what make all the news, such as those in electric 
bikes, scooters, hoverboards, specially when someone leaves them on a 
charger in a garage when the temperatures get out of control and the BMS 
doesn't have any temperature controls on charging.


When you look at LFP batteries, unless the environment is well under 
control, you need to make sure that the battery has both high and LOW 
temperature protection.  Your shelter gets below 32 degrees because the 
power went off, the batteries go below freezing and the power comes back 
on without the shelter warming up and the charger goes on.   Your 
batteries will be toast...



On 1/4/24 09:12, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I know lead acid batteries have their safety issues, what about lithium?

With the Tesla Megapacks, I think fire departments just let them burn 
themselves out and flood adjacent ones with water to keep the fire from 
spreading.  Are there any building code restrictions against putting 
them in office buildings or data centers?  In general I would assume a 
stationary battery is less likely to catch fire compared to a Tesla car 
which can hit other objects while going 100 mph.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 11:04 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Just the joy of handling lighter batts make lithium well worth it.  Not 
to mention all the other positive attributes.


*From:*castarritt

*Sent:*Thursday, January 4, 2024 9:27 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC supplies 
with LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other charger.  As long as I am 
using a power supply that will sag voltage instead of trip offline when 
max current is reached, the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's 
rated charge current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the 
appropriate value, I don't see why I need anything more.  The LFP pack's 
BMS already has LVD, and we aren't using fancy multi stage charge 
profiles with boost voltage on lithium packs.  Am I missing something 
here?  So far, bossman has preferred just playing it safe and paying for 
the ICT shelves we know work, so I haven't got to try it yet.


On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt > wrote:


We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies
and Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The
only downside is that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge
or give your an estimated runtime remaining with lithium batteries. 
I understand they won't have a super accurate reading on those

parameters without communicating with the BMS, but I wish they could
at least calculate AH in and out vs set AH capacity to give a rough
estimate.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:

We are having great success with signature solar units and ICT
rectifiers.





*Gino Villarini*
Founder / President
@GVillarini
787.273.4143 |



























Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

AeroNet-dula-network-access.jpg 

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Mark - Myakka
Technologies mailto:m...@mailmt.com>>
*Date: *Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It
wasn't a pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed
over priced options.  Trying to be more careful this time.

Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount
batteries, but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone
recommend a 

Re: [AFMUG] Got paid

[Robert Andrews]

Did you pull the comments and review?

On 10/24/23 11:53, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
A prime contractor has owed me about $15K for 6 months.  Totally dogging 
me.
They showed up in my FB feed crowing about a big job they had just 
completed.  So I started making snarky comments on their posts.  I also 
gave them a bad review and commented that they don’t pay their subs. The 
owner of the company called me and settled about 15 minutes after 
posting the review.

A whole lot cheaper than attorneys.



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Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Robert Andrews]

I keep a lookout for dead freezers on facebook and other local sales 
channels...


On 8/17/23 18:20, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
If the batteries were in a tight, very well insulated container, keeping 
them warm will take very little energy.  Think of a giant dewar box. 
Once they are at temp they should hold it.  And discharge as well as 
charge will cause them to heat.

*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 5:25 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
Yeah... for on-grid backup power, running heaters shouldn't be a big 
problem, but off-grid is a different animal. Warming the batteries up 
enough to charge could take a lot of power.
All the lifepo4 batteries I've looked at list the minimum discharge 
temperature at -20C, which isn't terrible, but they need to be at least 
0C to charge. The discharge temperature isn't hard cut-off where it 
won't work or will wreck the batteries sort of thing, as far as I can 
tell, but the charging temperature is.
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:02 PM Robert Andrews  
wrote:


For off grid, it also has to have heaters.  Not being able to charge is
just as crippling if your site never gets above freezing long enough to
charge the batteries in the winter.   Getting the batteries heated JUST
off the solar output ( not off of grid power ) is tricky and I am not
convinced that anything less than an 8K solar array is going to keep a
LFP site with any real draw happy over a winter.   That's a killer...

On 8/17/23 13:58, Brian Webster wrote:
 > The temp issue as I understand it is the low temp disconnect when
charge
 > so as not to try and charge when the batteries are too cold. The
LiTime
 > batteries now have low temp disconnect in their internal battery
BMS.
 > Their prices are very good. The longevity of LiFePo batteries
more than
 > justifies the slightly added cost for the battery. If the
temperature
 > does not stay below the disconnect temp for longer than you have run
 > time, you are good. Remembering the LiFePo batteries give you full
 > capacity of their rated WH not only 50% like lead acid. They are
a lot
 > lighter too. So more useable WH can also reduce your battery
count (and
 > overall cost) that you need. Use a proper LiFePo charger and the
 > charging profile lets you dump almost full capacity to the batteries
 > that the panels produce. This should get the battery up to or
closer to
 > the full voltage sooner, allowing you to run the equipment off
the power
 > from the panels for a longer period of time as well. This of course
 > stretches your battery capacity too. When you can push full current
 > through the charger to the batteries, even short periods of sun
can get
 > your battery charged or partially charged faster than the charging
 > profiles required for lead acid or AGM batteries.
 >
 > Thank you,
 >
 > Brian Webster
 >
 > *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew
Howard
 > *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 4:14 PM
 > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
 >
 > Yeah, temperature is the main problem I'm seeing with going to
lithiums.
 > I can throw an SLA battery in an unheated box at our towers and it's
 > going to work good enough, even in the middle of winter, but the
minimum
 > charging temperature for LFP batteries is 32F, which we're going
to be
 > below for a good part of the year.
 >
 > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 3:08 PM Bill Prince  <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
 >
 > Things have evolved. You can get LFP batteries for "almost"
the same
 > price as lead acid. Sometimes less even. They occupy less
than half
 > the space as lead acid, and will last at least twice as long.
There
 > is the issue of temperature sensitivity and they will need
help for
 > extremely cold environments.
 >
 > bp
 >
 > 
 >
 > On 8/17/2023 12:36 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com
 > <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
 >
 > Ooh What lithium batteries are we talking about?
 >
 > Last time I checked (a number of years ago), it was around 5x
 > the $/Wh to buy Lithium.
 >
 > *From:* AF 
 > <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
 > *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:51 AM
 > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
 > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
 >
 >

Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Robert Andrews]

For off grid, it also has to have heaters.  Not being able to charge is 
just as crippling if your site never gets above freezing long enough to 
charge the batteries in the winter.   Getting the batteries heated JUST 
off the solar output ( not off of grid power ) is tricky and I am not 
convinced that anything less than an 8K solar array is going to keep a 
LFP site with any real draw happy over a winter.   That's a killer...


On 8/17/23 13:58, Brian Webster wrote:
The temp issue as I understand it is the low temp disconnect when charge 
so as not to try and charge when the batteries are too cold. The LiTime 
batteries now have low temp disconnect in their internal battery BMS. 
Their prices are very good. The longevity of LiFePo batteries more than 
justifies the slightly added cost for the battery. If the temperature 
does not stay below the disconnect temp for longer than you have run 
time, you are good. Remembering the LiFePo batteries give you full 
capacity of their rated WH not only 50% like lead acid. They are a lot 
lighter too. So more useable WH can also reduce your battery count (and 
overall cost) that you need. Use a proper LiFePo charger and the 
charging profile lets you dump almost full capacity to the batteries 
that the panels produce. This should get the battery up to or closer to 
the full voltage sooner, allowing you to run the equipment off the power 
from the panels for a longer period of time as well. This of course 
stretches your battery capacity too. When you can push full current 
through the charger to the batteries, even short periods of sun can get 
your battery charged or partially charged faster than the charging 
profiles required for lead acid or AGM batteries.


Thank you,

Brian Webster

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 4:14 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

Yeah, temperature is the main problem I'm seeing with going to lithiums. 
I can throw an SLA battery in an unheated box at our towers and it's 
going to work good enough, even in the middle of winter, but the minimum 
charging temperature for LFP batteries is 32F, which we're going to be 
below for a good part of the year.


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 3:08 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


Things have evolved. You can get LFP batteries for "almost" the same
price as lead acid. Sometimes less even. They occupy less than half
the space as lead acid, and will last at least twice as long. There
is the issue of temperature sensitivity and they will need help for
extremely cold environments.

bp



On 8/17/2023 12:36 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com
 wrote:

Ooh What lithium batteries are we talking about?

Last time I checked (a number of years ago), it was around 5x
the $/Wh to buy Lithium.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:51 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

Well, right. It doesn't scale well, because battery costs and
space requirements will quickly become a problem. Batteries
don't last forever, so you have to factor in replacement costs
too, which will be a significant ongoing cost for a larger
system. I'm pretty sure that lithium batteries would be cheaper
long term now, since they should have a lot longer life span and
the initial cost isn't a lot higher, but then heating is
required, which means you need more power.

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 7:02 PM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That’s building strictly for a 20W load though.  Building
for a tiny load does make the costs easier.  But if you
wanted a second AP, bigger backhaul, or anything else you
can’t do it without growing the whole power system
proportionally.

Steve was talking a 50W load today.  The real high end
hardware now is using a lot of signal processing either to
reassemble useful data out of garbage or for beam steering,
or both.  So you end up needing 100-150W for an AP.  You’d
be hard pressed to find a licensed backhaul under 35W, and
most of them are 50W+.  We could say we won’t deploy that
equipment….but building for a 20W load takes the choice away.

A 20A 240v circuit is 4800W.  Or a 20A 120V circuit is
2400W.  Even 2400W would power almost any WISP deployment. 
Building solar to handle any load you might have is

expensive, and building for only low power handcuffs you.

You do your thing your way, no judgement.  If it’s working
  

Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Robert Andrews]

I just wish Will Prowse would start doing heater reviews on LFP 
batteries, but he's in Vegas and that's the last thing on his mind.  But 
it's critical for everyone north of Lat 36


On 8/17/23 13:07, TJ Trout wrote:
Don't buy 12v lifepo4 batteries for series use, it's much better to buy 
a 24v or 48v battery as it will have one BMS and keep balanced.


https://signaturesolar.com/shop-all/batteries/ 



Some of the main players are signature solar, trophy battery, and a 
bunch of others look at Will prowse solar on YouTube and you can see 
reviews of all of the different 48 volt batteries.


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 1:03 PM Mathew Howard > wrote:


LiFePO4. There are a few different ways you can go with that though.
You can get something like these:
https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-lf280k
 which I
think actually comes out slightly cheaper than SLA/AGM, but then you
need a separate BMS, or you can get something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166234057827
 which is made to be a drop
in replacement for lead acids, and has a built in BMS.


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:37 PM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Ooh What lithium batteries are we talking about? 

Last time I checked (a number of years ago), it was around 5x
the $/Wh to buy Lithium. 

__ __

__ __

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2023 10:51 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

__ __

Well, right. It doesn't scale well, because battery costs and
space requirements will quickly become a problem. Batteries
don't last forever, so you have to factor in replacement costs
too, which will be a significant ongoing cost for a larger
system. I'm pretty sure that lithium batteries would be cheaper
long term now, since they should have a lot longer life span and
the initial cost isn't a lot higher, but then heating is
required, which means you need more power.

__ __

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 7:02 PM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That’s building strictly for a 20W load though.  Building
for a tiny load does make the costs easier.  But if you
wanted a second AP, bigger backhaul, or anything else you
can’t do it without growing the whole power system
proportionally.



Steve was talking a 50W load today.  The real high end
hardware now is using a lot of signal processing either to
reassemble useful data out of garbage or for beam steering,
or both.  So you end up needing 100-150W for an AP.  You’d
be hard pressed to find a licensed backhaul under 35W, and
most of them are 50W+.  We could say we won’t deploy that
equipment….but building for a 20W load takes the choice
away. 



A 20A 240v circuit is 4800W.  Or a 20A 120V circuit is
2400W.  Even 2400W would power almost any WISP deployment. 
Building solar to handle any load you might have is

expensive, and building for only low power handcuffs you. 

You do your thing your way, no judgement.  If it’s working
for you then it’s good, but I can’t see myself going that
direction.



-Adam







*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2023 5:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question



I'm at about the same latitude as you. My experience is that
having extra battery capacity is more helpful than
oversizing the solar panels, so I'd probably go with Chuck's
numbers for batteries if I was putting something together
now, and solar panels are cheap now anyway, so figure 400
watts (if mounting space allows for it, which could be an
issue if we're trying to fit it on a pole). 



A quick check on Amazon shows 100ah SLA batteries for $160,
so 6 of those would give me 7200 watt hours, for just under
$1k. At $1500 (which is mostly just adjusting battery and
panel sizes from where I started at $1k), I'm right in line
with Chuck's estimate, aside from 

Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Robert Andrews]

When not buried in a historic snow load or positioned correctly so that 
the snow falls off the panels and a 200 foot cliff...


On 8/16/23 12:46, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Using my historical rules of thumb for off grid, snowed in mountain top 
location for a 20 watt load I would do the following that has never 
failed me:

Load X 20 so 400 watts of panel.  So less than $200 these days.
2 weeks of battery autonomy.
20 x 24 x 14= 6720 watt hours.  $2K of batts
Plus enclosures, mounts, charge controllers.
$2500 and it will never go down in the winter.  At my Utah latitude on 
top of Utah mountains.

*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 16, 2023 1:07 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
It depends on how much stuff you're trying to run. A minimal micropop 
can be done with less than 20 watts of load (single AP and backhaul). I 
can put together a solar setup for around $1000 that will power that.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:50 PM  wrote:

I can save you the suspense.  If you have access to electric that’ll
be cheaper than solar.  The problem is the need to run 24/7.  You
have to design around the December-January months.  I’m in NY State,
and at our latitude we only get a few hours of average production
per day during those months.  And obviously if it’s snowing for a
week you need to be able to ride through that on mostly battery
power.  Even with a modest load it takes a silly amount of panels
and batteries to stay up 24/7 in the winter.  More than you’d ever
be allowed to put on a utility pole. 



Talk to your electric co about the smallest service you can get. 
Explain what you’re trying to do and that your max load is very low.



NYSEG normally doesn’t do less than 100A, but they made an exception
and let us do 60A.  You need a meter can, a service rated panel, a
conduit up the pole and a weatherhead.  Then you either have an
outdoor outlet, or have an outlet inside your enclosure.  You’ll
want the smallest service they’ll let you do because of the wire
size on the service cable.  A 20A (if they’d allow it) would only
need a 12/3 with ground, and that’s up to 4800 Watts (240x20) so
it’s still more than you’d ever need.   A 12/3 is way cheaper than a
100A service entrance cable.



My figure is 8 years old, and obviously there’s been inflation since
then, but I went to the same contractor who does electric installs
for the cable company and they quoted me about $1000.  Even if it’s
3x that for you today you’d still never beat that with a solar
installation even if they’d let you do it.  And I’m not some
knee-jerk anti-solar lunatic, I’m just saying I’ve run the numbers
and it doesn’t add up.   People do it when they’re off grid, or when
the electric service is unreliable in the area, or sometimes just
for the PR/marketing power of being “solar powered”.  Those are all
fine reasons, but doing it for cost savings isn’t going to work out.



-Adam





*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:27 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question



we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our
own poles). We are losing a grain elevator site because they
decommissioned the elevator and theres no real options for the
customers in some of the areas. Im just trying to get to something
we can get solar power with enough battery to last through overcast.
So Im calculating per battery runtimes, then will look at number of
batteries we would need to survive vs paying for a ROW meter vs
losing the customers. Just have to get to the cost per customer to
retain them and the benefit gained per pole





On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Brian Webster
 wrote:

How many of the batteries do you have? Do you need any voltages
other than the 48 volts? If you have 4 batteries and only need
48 volts then wire them in series and not have to deal with the
converter.



Thank you,

Brian Webster





*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*dmmoff...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question



*You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end /of
capacity/. 

Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the
battery.  I realized that sentence might have been ambiguous.





*From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:56 AM
 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Robert Andrews]

 A host is a host from coast to coast.  And nobody talks to a host 
that's close, unless the host that isn't close is busy, hung, or dead...


UUCP email days...

On 3/13/23 15:46, Jan-GAMs wrote:

George Noory?  But I preferred Art Bell

Hey, that large company I worked for, well, one of the employees who 
also got a lot of email, was injured and was out for like 3 months.  Her 
inbox got too full with unread mail and brought down the entire email 
system.


On 3/12/23 14:52, Robert Andrews wrote:

Who remembers a famous USENET author that had:

A host is a host from coast to coast

(what was the next line?)

As part of their signature..  Not the copycats, but the original...



On 3/12/23 13:13, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the 
email flying around your company.  Was kinda fun.

I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.
Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit. This 
was on a CSMA/CD coaxial network.

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early 
days.   There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back 
to the origin server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to 
obfuscate but not hide that origin.
Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not 
knowing or not being willing to disclose that information. Every 
email received generally will be able to be tracked back to the 
origin server,  with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the 
origin server will be unable to be determined since any random person 
can spin up a server, send mail,  and drop off the planet.
Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate 
that the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given 
domain and provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a 
way for legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to 
come from them actually comes from them and for companies like google 
to be able to reject what appear to be emails with spoofed sender 
information.



On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

    Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself
    via the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those
    who used the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course,
    then later they published a 5,000 page phone book with all our
    emails associated with our work addresses for over 50,000
    employees.  I printed it out and put it in a 3-ring binder and put
    it in the computer room where the other users could use it. Back
    then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had this big
    plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
    generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever
    know our email address associated with our work phone, work address,
    etc... .  It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that
    can't make it, the promise, unsaid.

    On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:

    wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
    This is getting to some Qanon level right here
    On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs 
    wrote:

    good question Forrest. mail.com <http://mail.com> provides
    several hundred domains to choose from and use and easily
    works with thunderbird as well as most other email reader
    applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
    monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used
    by arpanet to be free/open/anonymous and to still be
    functional even after a global war.  Using spf/dkim removes
    the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also think that
    since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
    it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim
    into it with a little more python scripting.  End result is
    now google knows exactly who you are and who you're sending to
    and the spam filters are broken because now we'll have
    verified spam mail.

    Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content? Where is
    your privacy?

    Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know
    anyone who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do
    not know anyone who has actually built and setup successfully
    a homebrew DIY email server.  I do know lots of people who
    have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way easier to buy
    it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
    is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send
    more than 10 emails at a time and you have to wait up to an
    hour before you can send 10 more.  That

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Robert Andrews]

Who remembers a famous USENET author that had:

A host is a host from coast to coast

(what was the next line?)

As part of their signature..  Not the copycats, but the original...



On 3/12/23 13:13, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the email 
flying around your company.  Was kinda fun.

I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.
Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit.  This 
was on a CSMA/CD coaxial network.

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early days.   
There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back to the 
origin server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to obfuscate but 
not hide that origin.
Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not 
knowing or not being willing to disclose that information.  Every email 
received generally will be able to be tracked back to the origin 
server,  with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the origin server 
will be unable to be determined since any random person can spin up a 
server, send mail,  and drop off the planet.
Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate 
that the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given 
domain and provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a way 
for legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to come from 
them actually comes from them and for companies like google to be able 
to reject what appear to be emails with spoofed sender information.



On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself
via the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those
who used the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course,
then later they published a 5,000 page phone book with all our
emails associated with our work addresses for over 50,000
employees.  I printed it out and put it in a 3-ring binder and put
it in the computer room where the other users could use it.  Back
then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had this big
plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever
know our email address associated with our work phone, work address,
etc... .  It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that
can't make it, the promise, unsaid.

On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:

wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
This is getting to some Qanon level right here
On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs 
wrote:

good question Forrest. mail.com  provides
several hundred domains to choose from and use and easily
works with thunderbird as well as most other email reader
applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used
by arpanet to be free/open/anonymous and to still be
functional even after a global war.  Using spf/dkim removes
the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also think that
since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim
into it with a little more python scripting.  End result is
now google knows exactly who you are and who you're sending to
and the spam filters are broken because now we'll have
verified spam mail.

Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content? Where is
your privacy?

Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know
anyone who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do
not know anyone who has actually built and setup successfully
a homebrew DIY email server.  I do know lots of people who
have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way easier to buy
it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send
more than 10 emails at a time and you have to wait up to an
hour before you can send 10 more.  That's why I tried to build
my own, just so I could send customers the monthly billing
automatically.  I even hired a programmer who said he had done
it before, he failed.

On 3/12/23 07:32, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I can insert a spoofed email using only telnet to port 25 on
a mail server in about 30 seconds not counting the time it
takes to type the message itself. Basically you telnet to
port 25, issue four commands (HELO, 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Robert Andrews]

The original Usenet email had the actual path to a major server (ATT, 
UCB, UCSB, etc... ) in the beginning every email address, pretty hard 
not to know the path of the users back then...


On 3/12/23 13:01, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early days.  
  There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back to the 
origin server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to obfuscate but 
not hide that origin.


Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not 
knowing or not being willing to disclose that information.  Every email 
received generally will be able to be tracked back to the origin 
server,  with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the origin server 
will be unable to be determined since any random person can spin up a 
server, send mail,  and drop off the planet.


Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate 
that the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given 
domain and provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a way 
for legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to come from 
them actually comes from them and for companies like google to be able 
to reject what appear to be emails with spoofed sender information.




On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs > wrote:


Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself
via the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those
who used the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course,
then later they published a 5,000 page phone book with all our
emails associated with our work addresses for over 50,000
employees.  I printed it out and put it in a 3-ring binder and put
it in the computer room where the other users could use it.  Back
then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had this big
plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever
know our email address associated with our work phone, work address,
etc... .  It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that
can't make it, the promise, unsaid.

On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:

wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?

This is getting to some Qanon level right here

On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net>> wrote:

good question Forrest. mail.com  provides
several hundred domains to choose from and use and easily
works with thunderbird as well as most other email reader
applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used
by arpanet to be free/open/anonymous and to still be
functional even after a global war.  Using spf/dkim removes
the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also think that
since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim
into it with a little more python scripting.  End result is
now google knows exactly who you are and who you're sending to
and the spam filters are broken because now we'll have
verified spam mail.

Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content? Where is
your privacy?

Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know
anyone who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do
not know anyone who has actually built and setup successfully
a homebrew DIY email server.  I do know lots of people who
have tried to do so, including myself. It's way easier to buy
it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send
more than 10 emails at a time and you have to wait up to an
hour before you can send 10 more.  That's why I tried to build
my own, just so I could send customers the monthly billing
automatically. I even hired a programmer who said he had done
it before, he failed.

On 3/12/23 07:32, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I can insert a spoofed email using only telnet to port 25 on
a mail server in about 30 seconds not counting the time it
takes to type the message itself. Basically you telnet to
port 25, issue four commands (HELO, MAIL FROM, RCPT TO,
DATA), and then type the message itself.

Spoofing email in an automated way only takes some basic
python skills.   Like I could teach anyone with a bit of
computer experience how to do it in about an hour or so. 
This python script can run on anything that runs python,

which is pretty much any 

Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much

[Robert Andrews]

two crumple zones hitting each other vs one crumple zone hitting a wall, 
makes off the cuff sense to me...  two old, non crumple zone, cars 
hitting each other would seem like what it would take to get a 120 mph 
impact.   Those crumple zones make a monster difference...




On 2/6/23 10:52, Josh Luthman wrote:

Not correct, Bill :(

On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 1:07 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


There would be the difference between colliding with an "almost"
immovable object (wall) versus colliding with a vehicle that has
some semblance of a crush zone. I don't know how much that
difference would be.


bp


On 2/6/2023 9:04 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

As I recall, mythbusters did the whole two cars head on vs one car
and an immovable wall.  Seemed like there was no difference.
*From:* Brian Webster
*Sent:* Monday, February 6, 2023 9:25 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much

Yes I would rather have a collision with another car at the
difference in speed than the combined speed of the two…. 



Brian



*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of
*dmmoff...@gmail.com 
*Sent:* Monday, February 6, 2023 9:54 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much



Huh….never heard them called Jersey Barriers before.

Apparently the slope on the bottom is to make your tires ride up
so you redirect back into your own lane (though possibly flipped
over) whereas a flat wall might make you flip into the oncoming
lane. 

Fun stuff.



*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Friday, February 03, 2023 10:42 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much



Same, california name for them.   Always remembered that name from
the movie "Volcano"

On 2/3/23 5:10 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Looks the same as Jersey barriers?

Sent from my iPhone



On Feb 3, 2023, at 5:29 PM, Robert
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com wrote:

 surplus K rail, if you think they might make it over,
double it up...



https://www.eiffeltrading.com/marketplace/traffic-barrier/barrier-wall/k-rail-barrier-wall
 


On 2/3/23 9:19 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Yeah, sonotube filled with a rebar cage.  Make a
picket fence of them.  Cheaper than a cutover to a new
building.  I have 576 strands feeding this shelter. 
Or maybe I beam hammered in with a pile driver. 




Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench.pro 
www.terabitnetworks.com




*From:*TJ Trout 

*Sent:*Friday, February 3, 2023 10:08 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Cc:*Chuck McCown 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much



I'm sure you could design some bollards that wouldn't
allow a tractor trailer through your fence 



On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 8:34 AM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I think we are going to install a larger shelter,
farther away from the I-80 ROW fence.  Second
crash right there.  First to come through the
fence.  Car landed on our back up generator after
wiping out our fiber splicing trailer, dump
trailer and really nice powered reel trailer. 



Hope the kid had insurance.  No seat belt.  Head
wound but apparently no broken bones. 



*From:*Mark Radabaugh 

*Sent:*Friday, February 3, 2023 7:27 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much



I don’t see the brown 

Re: [AFMUG] IP Camera Reccomendations.

[Robert Andrews]

I didn't see anything like a complete guide to non-compliant cameras, 
it's just a page of optiview cameras...


On 2/2/23 09:58, Jan-GAMs wrote:
Here is a list of non-compliant: 
https://optiviewusa.com/articles/complete-guide-to-ndaa-compliant-surveillance-systems/


On 2/2/23 09:36, Josh Luthman wrote:
I have a couple of Axis cameras.  Overall decent. Motion 
sensing/recording is C- to my expectations but the best I've found.  I 
don't really want to record 24/7 and store it for a month...


On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 12:26 AM Seth Mattinen via AF  
wrote:



I use Axis, all of their stuff is NDAA compliant.



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Re: [AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz

[Robert Andrews]

You got to ride on Janet Airlines?  ( red strip 737's ) Janet is the 
call sign and some people say it stands for Just Another Non-Existant 
Terminal...


On 1/16/23 12:11, Bill Prince wrote:
When I was there, they had a daily "shuttle" that flew a couple dozen 
employees between there are Las Vegas. The gig I was on got me there on 
a weekly shuttle between Livermore CA and the private airport on site. 
Because I finished my part of the gig 4 days early, I was looking at no 
way to get back to the Bay Area for (maybe) 4 days until the weekly 
shuttle came around again.


There were zero commercial flights out of Tonopah, and their little 
airport, so I asked the proprietor at the motel if I could rent a car at 
the Tonopah airport. She replied that yes, I could rent a car at the 
airport. I said "Great! I want to rent a one-way to the Bay Area." She 
answered back, "Oh Joe (don't remember the real name) wouldn't let you 
do that with his car."  Whoops.


In the end, one of the seats on the daily shuttle became "available", 
and I got out of there and to Las Vegas where I hopped a flight from 
there to SFO.



bp


On 1/16/2023 11:46 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
Tonapah is also famous in weather circles for the "Tonapah Low"... 
Which is a lot like how you feel when you stay there...




On 1/16/23 10:15, Bill Prince wrote:
The nearby town where I stayed (it was a 3-day gig) is called 
Tonopah, which I was told was an Indian word meaning "little wood, 
little water". That was an understatement.



bp


On 1/16/2023 9:56 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I have flown around it a few times. Tikaboo Peak is nearby and I 
think on the edge of the restricted area.

I used to serve a town in Utah named Ticaboo.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, January 16, 2023 10:18 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz

I don't know how much I can talk about it; needed a clearance (and 
escort) to be there.


bp

On 1/16/2023 8:32 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Looks like a place to get probed.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, January 16, 2023 8:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central 
Office.kmz


Not so sure about that. I was at a place that felt like Nowhere 
back in 1978 (or79?). It sure looked and  felt like Nowhere.


bp

On 1/16/2023 7:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

If nowhere was on a map, this would be it.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*To: *af@af.afmug.com
*Cc: *"Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
*Sent: *Sunday, January 15, 2023 6:10:03 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz


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Re: [AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz

[Robert Andrews]

Tonapah is also famous in weather circles for the "Tonapah Low"... 
Which is a lot like how you feel when you stay there...




On 1/16/23 10:15, Bill Prince wrote:
The nearby town where I stayed (it was a 3-day gig) is called Tonopah, 
which I was told was an Indian word meaning "little wood, little water". 
That was an understatement.



bp


On 1/16/2023 9:56 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I have flown around it a few times.  Tikaboo Peak is nearby and I 
think on the edge of the restricted area.

I used to serve a town in Utah named Ticaboo.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, January 16, 2023 10:18 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz

I don't know how much I can talk about it; needed a clearance (and 
escort) to be there.


bp

On 1/16/2023 8:32 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Looks like a place to get probed.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, January 16, 2023 8:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz

Not so sure about that. I was at a place that felt like Nowhere back 
in 1978 (or79?). It sure looked and  felt like Nowhere.


bp

On 1/16/2023 7:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

If nowhere was on a map, this would be it.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*To: *af@af.afmug.com
*Cc: *"Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
*Sent: *Sunday, January 15, 2023 6:10:03 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz


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Re: [AFMUG] Google Earth Placemark: Kolob Central Office.kmz

[Robert Andrews]

Went to one where I was black masked and everywhere was black curtains 
except on the desk where the computer I was working on sat.   Rolm 
Mil-Spec in the 80's


On 1/16/23 09:43, Larry Smith wrote:


LOL, been to a few of those.
Key point to remember is nowhere is now here also.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Robert Andrews]

Not sure if he did a book, I was referring to his statement that he 
released...


On 10/11/22 09:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Haven’t read that one.  Ordering it now.
Yeah, the books that I have read that were written by his insiders all 
paint a uniform picture of him.  He does not seem able to absorb expert 
opinion and synthesize outputs from it.
I feel sorry for those generals that simply got brushed away when he 
didn’t like what they were telling him.  I know one general personally 
and he is one of the brightest persons I have ever met.  I presume you 
cannot become a general without having some brains.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 10:16 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
If "Mad Dog" was convinced enough to write about him, and you don't 
believe him, you are indoctrinated...


On 10/11/22 8:26 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
I think he loves what the country can do for him and is happy to 
divide the nation as a means to that end. Whatever good came from his 
administration's policies, I believe the collateral damage outweighs 
the benefit.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:56 AM  wrote:

Oh I’ll say it.  He doesn’t love this country.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2022 1:20 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great
things for it .

Rory

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
via AF
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his
mother under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff. 
Not much.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in
the _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC
vilify Biden?

On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:

The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they
think he'll reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they
also HATE EV's with a passion. There's plenty of
misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have
the refreshed 2022 Model S and love both.

If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have
the lowest IQs in America and who are attending Trump
rallies, search "Jordan Klepper trump" on youtube and
watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is
part of the cult. You can be Republican but not support
Trump but anyone else is far gone off the deep end.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson
 wrote:

My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on why
there is a large anti-EV contingent on the right:

- A lot of hot button "culture war" issues are really
being pushed by groups with an economic interest in an
issue.  In this case it is fossil fuel energy which is
a trillion dollar industry.  The world is moving
towards EVs a whole lot faster than a lot in the
industry expected.  It isn't surprising that wrenches
are thrown into the works whenever possible.

- Most current EVs are expensive.  Money and liberals
are more concentrated in urban areas.  It is easy to
believe FUD, funded by above, when it is targeted at a
group that is different form you.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:32 AM 
wrote:

Well the original description was “what is
important to be taught at school”.  In that
context, the chart made no sense at all.

If 78% of liberal democrats believe too little
time is spent on racial issues in school then that
does make sense.

*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, October 07, 2022 4:45 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

I left out an important detail, that graphic was
the “too little” response.

Full article can be found in today’s Deseret News.

*From:*Chuck McCown via AF

*Sent:*Friday, October 7, 2022 1:00 PM

*To:*dmmoff...@gmail.com; 

Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review

[Robert Andrews]

It's wonderful that you can do this for your community!!  That said, it 
sounds like the punch line in "how to make a small fortune in the movie 
business"


On 6/28/22 09:17, Darin Steffl wrote:

Chuck,

For big movies like top gun, batman, Disney movies, minions, the studio 
takes at least 62.5% from us on ticket sales. So examples below of our 
net profit on ticket sales is listed and it isn't nearly enough to pay 
the bills. This is why concessions cost so much at theaters because we 
couldn't stay open on ticket sales alone.


Regular $9 ticket with tax included
Sales tax = $0.62 to the state
$8.38 pre-tax
Studio takes 62.5% = $5.24
Theater keeps = $3.14 net profit

Child/senior $6 ticket
Sales tax = $0.41 to the state
$5.59 pre-tax
Studio takes 62.5% = $3.49
Theater keeps = $2.10 net profit


As a single screen theater, these small net profits per ticket barely 
cover property taxes, utilities, and payroll. Let alone the equipment 
and maintenance costs of needing to spend about $70,000 per auditorium 
every 8-10 years to replace the projector and server. Add that we're 
replacing our roof this week at $65k, new siding to cover the cracking 
stucco at $70k, New marquee and EFIS on the front which will be around 
$100k, heated recliners at $100k for the building, new concession stand 
and flooring $30k.


It's easy to see how I may never pay off the investments I'm putting 
into this theater unless we increase attendance. My hope is this hobby 
will eventually pay back my investments in 10 years so I don't have 
buyers remorse. I bought this as it was going to close during covid lost 
likely and the previous owners did not have the money or energy to keep 
it going much longer. It's my childhood theater where I grew up and I 
love it so I'm trying to save it, restore it, and make it the best place 
to see a movie compared to the multiplex theaters that are dirty and 
have riff raff people causing trouble.


On Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 10:30 AM Steven Kenney via AF > wrote:


Small town local theatres are something I would support.  But I at
this point don't want to give a single penny to Hollywood, Disney or
any of those other studios that have lost touch with reality.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 9:32 PM Darin Steffl
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:

I'm biased because I bought a single screen theater in my
hometown right before lockdowns in March 2020.

I offered half the listing price because of covid coming and the
sellers accepted. We've been open since Godzilla in March 2021
and things have been doing better.

I can say with certainty that my $50k projector and sound system
blows any of your home theaters out of the water haha!

That said, I prefer to watch new releases alone on days we're
closed or after the public shows because people are generally
annoying. Getting up to use the bathroom, dropping things on the
wood floor, talking, etc. All the things you all hate, I hate
too. But we keep a clean theater, have the best popcorn I've
ever tasted, we're friendly, and I'm renovating things slowly
over 2-3 years to repair and upgrade this 1937 theater.

We just added a small 2nd screen upstairs so we can show more
than one movie at a time. 4k laser projector is coming next year
with heated recliners too.

The movie industry is not dead and continues to be resilient
coming out of covid. The downside to this industry is we rely on
good movies being released. If the studios release a bunch of
duds, theaters don't do well. So we're at the mercy of the
product that shows on our screens.

Top Gun Maverick is one of my favorite movies now! I've seen it
3 times and we're bringing it back for a week again starting
July 1 because it did so well for us in the first 2 weeks we had
it. I'll watch it a 4th time.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 7:22 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not quite everything for me. For live events that have CC,
the CC is about 10-15 seconds behind the actual dialog, so I
turn it off because it becomes distracting.

Sometimes when they have CC, there is silence after the
person has said something that appears to me to be a
complete sentence, yet the CC adds some pithy little thing
that (I think) they didn't actually say.


bp


On 6/27/2022 4:37 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I have CC on everything anymore.
*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2022 5:23 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review
Closed Captions, so you can understand what is being said,
and Being able to pause 

Re: [AFMUG] Weird IP issue

[Robert Andrews]

Did you reset to defaults to start?   Bunch of MT config stuff hidden 
away from factory...


On 5/4/22 14:57, Christopher Tyler wrote:

Confirmed that firewall is not the issue, disabled the rules, no change. I 
don't know why, but I didn't even think of torch/packet capture, brain-fart I 
guess.
If the downgrade doesn't fix it I'll look at that next.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT FB

[Robert Andrews]

Me Three...  FB is getting tricky...

On 4/29/22 10:22, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:

Started for me this morning.

Jim



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8 Active, an AT 5G Evolution capable 
smartphone




 Original message 
From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Date: 4/29/22 12:22 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT FB

So, I discovered this morning that I have to have my adblocker off to 
see FB posts...

Is this for everyone?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Late 1970s

[Robert Andrews]

1970's?   That truck looks mid 50's  Oh You were lat 70's

On 4/15/22 12:39, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Ron Jeremy refused to split the money with me once so I quit all of that 
stuff...

*From:* can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Friday, April 15, 2022 1:36 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Late 1970s
I was expecting a porn documentary.
On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 3:27 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

This was my EXACT job.
https://youtu.be/EniO_8_V5v0 
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Re: [AFMUG] Another Ubiquiti Lawsuit...

[Robert Andrews]

robert@ubnt=buttercup?

On 3/30/22 10:20, Mike Hammett wrote:

"he knew that his sole source..."

How? How did he know? Was Krebs also summoned? Does Krebs work for the DOJ?



"Instead of..."

Who cares? He published updates and new articles with current information.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"James Howard" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Wednesday, March 30, 2022 11:48:33 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Another Ubiquiti Lawsuit...

This seems to be what they’re really focusing on:

4. Krebs reviewed the press release and he knew that his sole source had 
been indicted for his criminal involvement in the cyberattack. Despite 
these damming facts, Krebs published a story on his blog the next day 
doubling down on his false accusations against Ubiquiti and 
intentionally misleading his readers into believing that his earlier 
reporting was not sourced by Sharp, the hacker behind the attack.4


5. Instead of acknowledging that the source from his previous story was 
indicted by federal prosecutors for his crimes against Ubiquiti, Krebs 
calls Sharp “a Ubiquiti employee” when referencing Sharp’s contributions 
to his reporting. But in the very next sentence, Krebs describes Sharp 
as “a former Ubiquiti developer” who “was arrested and charged with 
stealing data and trying to extort his employer while pretending to be a 
whistleblower.”


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2022 11:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Another Ubiquiti Lawsuit...

and yet public comment after public comment is that people first heard 
about it from Krebs, suggesting that whatever Ubiquiti did was insufficient.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" >

*Cc: *"Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Sent: *Wednesday, March 30, 2022 11:20:43 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Another Ubiquiti Lawsuit...

Here is the first part of the complaint:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63197557/ubiquiti-inc-v-krebs/ 



Ubiquiti Inc. files this defamation action because blogger Brian Krebs1 
falsely accused the company of “covering up” a cyberattack by 
intentionally misleading customers about a so-called data “breach” and 
subsequent blackmail attempt in violation of federal law and SEC 
regulations. 2 The opposite is true: Ubiquiti promptly notified its 
customers about the attack and instructed them to take additional 
security precautions to protect their information. Ubiquiti then 
notified the public in the next filing it made with the SEC. But Krebs 
intentionally disregarded these facts to target Ubiquiti and increase ad 
revenue by driving traffic to his website, www.KrebsOnSecurity.com 
.


*From:*Mike Hammett

*Sent:*Tuesday, March 29, 2022 9:19 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*[AFMUG] Another Ubiquiti Lawsuit...

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63197557/ubiquiti-inc-v-krebs/ 





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

Re: [AFMUG] SMS from my Cell Number

[Robert Andrews]

I got my first one last night...  Head scratcher for a minute or two...

On 3/30/22 09:53, Nate Burke wrote:
Starting this week, I've been getting Spam SMS messages with my Cell 
number as phone number to communicate with.  Incoming SMS from my cell 
number, Messaging app asks if I Would like to add a contact of 'my cell 
number' for this new message thread.  Message window shows 'Texting with 
'my cell number' via SMS/MMS'


For all the 'Anti-spam' rhetoric coming from the Cell companies, this 
scenario seems like one that should never ever happen.  Am I the only 
one getting these?  Should I bother to call the cell company?




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Machinery colors

[Robert Andrews]

This is actually close to what I find works well in dirty environments 
for my cars.  IF it is available, I like gold shades for cars, as they 
don't get as hot and also don't show dirt.   As the color fades it still 
looks good.


On 2/20/22 11:59, Steve Jones wrote:
I cringe when I see implements painted red white and blue, it inevitably 
means theres an oversized diesel with a steel nutsack hanging off the 
hitch somewhere nearby, and probably a low production crew hungover 
operating it.


Paint it rust color so it always looks new

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 1:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


I like money more than political ideologies.  I am a greedy, naked
capitalist, opportunist.
I am sure some would buy it just because it was red white and blue.
But some would brand me some kind of alt right company I am afraid. 
Just like I judge a large pick up truck, rollin’ coal,  with a huge

US flag or flying the stars and bars.  I immediately categorize them
and start to plan my escape in the event of road rage...
While I sometimes am a sympathizer to the right, I am more in the
middle on many issues.  Perhaps my age has something to do with it. 
I see more shades of gray now.  When I was young, I was almost a

John Bircher.
From: Robert
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:26 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Machinery colors
Red white and blue?
On 2/20/22 9:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I have a new product, larger than anything I have made before.  It
is a self propelled grout mixer similar to the Ditch Witch R300 with
a 1CM mixer attachment.  I have some significant improvements over
their product but they both do the same thing and look a bit
similar.  Our attach method between the grout mixing tub attachment
and the rest of the machine is almost identical to DW to allow
interchangeability between brands.  Similar to a universal skid
steer attachment.    This is a high demand machine for the micro
trenching world.
I am at the point where I have to choose a color for the machine.  I
will avoid Ditch Witch colors.  The John Deere trademark decision
says I could paint it green but not the same green with yellow of JD
equipment.
I hate to paint it the generic cat/JD/vermeer type of yellow that
everyone else seems to use.  It is not agricultural so probably not
JD green. Not sure if Ford blue communicates solid USA made good
stuff.  Thinking Kubota orange, but does that communicate inferior
Kubota?  Years ago Kubota was truly inferior but now-a days they
make good stuff.
It will soon get lots of grout spatter on the outside.  Almost
impossible to keep these things spotless.  So darker colors will
emphasize the mess.  Could paint it concrete gray to minimize that
but that does not excite me at all.
What color makes you think “solid, American Made, durable, good value”?
Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench-blades.com 
www.terabitnetworks.com 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Machinery colors

[Robert Andrews]

I love my country and hate that being patriotic has become a label of 
sides, that said, I like red white and blue and think that the pastel 
versions of those colors could work...


On 2/20/22 11:07, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I like money more than political ideologies.  I am a greedy, naked 
capitalist, opportunist.
I am sure some would buy it just because it was red white and blue. But 
some would brand me some kind of alt right company I am afraid.  Just 
like I judge a large pick up truck, rollin’ coal,  with a huge US flag 
or flying the stars and bars.  I immediately categorize them and start 
to plan my escape in the event of road rage...
While I sometimes am a sympathizer to the right, I am more in the middle 
on many issues.  Perhaps my age has something to do with it.  I see more 
shades of gray now.  When I was young, I was almost a John Bircher.

From: Robert
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:26 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Machinery colors
Red white and blue?
On 2/20/22 9:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I have a new product, larger than anything I have made before.  It is a 
self propelled grout mixer similar to the Ditch Witch R300 with a 1CM 
mixer attachment.  I have some significant improvements over their 
product but they both do the same thing and look a bit similar.  Our 
attach method between the grout mixing tub attachment and the rest of 
the machine is almost identical to DW to allow interchangeability 
between brands.  Similar to a universal skid steer attachment.    This 
is a high demand machine for the micro trenching world.
I am at the point where I have to choose a color for the machine.  I 
will avoid Ditch Witch colors.  The John Deere trademark decision says I 
could paint it green but not the same green with yellow of JD equipment.
I hate to paint it the generic cat/JD/vermeer type of yellow that 
everyone else seems to use.  It is not agricultural so probably not JD 
green. Not sure if Ford blue communicates solid USA made good stuff.  
Thinking Kubota orange, but does that communicate inferior Kubota?  
Years ago Kubota was truly inferior but now-a days they make good stuff.
It will soon get lots of grout spatter on the outside.  Almost 
impossible to keep these things spotless.  So darker colors will 
emphasize the mess.  Could paint it concrete gray to minimize that but 
that does not excite me at all.

What color makes you think “solid, American Made, durable, good value”?
Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

[Robert Andrews]

That's how it worked (in her mind) for the first divorce...   I did get 
a bunch of the larger assets because they had debt and I got all of that...


On 2/15/22 10:56, Bill Prince wrote:
Probably (and this is pure speculation) is that I get all the debts, and 
she gets all the assets.



bp


On 2/15/2022 7:33 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Honestly...probably because she's a woman.  Maybe there are more/less 
items on her specifically compared to you?


On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 9:00 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

I think 830-840 was the highest we've ever gotten. For reasons I
don't
fully comprehend, my SO's FICO is almost always a few points
higher than
mine.


bp


On 2/14/2022 1:54 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> You got me thinking, so I checked my FICO.  Not to brag but I will
> brag that I have 829 839 839.
> How in the hell can I get those last 11 points?
>
> -Original Message- From: Robert
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 2:47 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
>
> Have you had a low ( less than 700 ) credit score in the last 15
> years?   It really does interesting things to when you buy any
kind of
> subscription service ( except ISP )
>
> On 2/14/22 12:38 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> If I am not borrowing money and getting in to or staying in
debt, why
>> the hell do I care about my credit score anyway. That's just
another
>> construct people have been lulled in to believing. I just save
money
>> and pay for this once I have the cash. I am also saving up for my
>> eventual care when I get old, not expecting the government to
have to
>> pay for my old age care. You know actually thinking ahead and
having
>> a savings for those eventualities and the fact that inflation
happens
>> at a faster pace when you are retired and do not have any more
>> earning power. The money has to last the rest of your life.
Inflation
>> still happens after you retire. But my thoughts like that are
lost on
>> most of society and like Mike Hammett is fond of quoting today
>> "most"  :-)
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Andrews
>> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 3:10 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
>>
>> If you keep as little as $20 on only one of your credit cards, your
>> credit score goes up 50 points.   This is the absolute proof
that the
>> money changers are gaming the system...   The confirmation of
that is
>> the lowered rates for things like insurance for higher credit
scores and
>> how higher credit scores contribute to your evaluation by HR
for new
>> jobs...
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 2/14/2022 11:29 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
>>>> The bank really hates you if you have no debt, can't get a
loan if you
>>>> have no debt.  My newest car is 22 years old.  My other work
truck is
>>>> 54.  My house is paid for.  I'm thinking of putting in solar
panels
>>>> and converting my 3rd car into an EV and eventually
converting the
>>>> house and well to solar too.  F*** the greedy power company
and the
>>>> rigged banks.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote:
>>>>> Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range
limitations. For
>>>>> me it's not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles
in one
>>>>> direction and then back in the same day. It's also not
uncommon to
>>>>> want to take a trip and covers 300 or more miles in that day
on the
>>>>> long trip. I do not want to be limited to 250 miles before I
have to
>>>>> stop for an extended period to recharge. Personally that is
a serious
>>>>> limit on my personal freedom of movement. For instance it's not
>>>>> uncommon for spring or winter breaks to drive from upstate NY to
>>>>> Florida in a single 24 hour period. When you only have a
week for
>>>>> vacation tag team driving to get there with a carload of
people is
>>>>> still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the restriction
of being
>>>>> able to haul larger loads similarly are a big limitation.
Having a 27
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

[Robert Andrews]

If you keep as little as $20 on only one of your credit cards, your 
credit score goes up 50 points.   This is the absolute proof that the 
money changers are gaming the system...   The confirmation of that is 
the lowered rates for things like insurance for higher credit scores and 
how higher credit scores contribute to your evaluation by HR for new jobs...



On 2/14/2022 11:29 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
The bank really hates you if you have no debt, can't get a loan if you 
have no debt.  My newest car is 22 years old.  My other work truck is 
54.  My house is paid for.  I'm thinking of putting in solar panels 
and converting my 3rd car into an EV and eventually converting the 
house and well to solar too.  F*** the greedy power company and the 
rigged banks.


On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote:
Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. For 
me it's not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one 
direction and then back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to 
want to take a trip and covers 300 or more miles in that day on the 
long trip. I do not want to be limited to 250 miles before I have to 
stop for an extended period to recharge. Personally that is a serious 
limit on my personal freedom of movement. For instance it's not 
uncommon for spring or winter breaks to drive from upstate NY to 
Florida in a single 24 hour period. When you only have a week for 
vacation tag team driving to get there with a carload of people is 
still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the restriction of being 
able to haul larger loads similarly are a big limitation. Having a 27 
foot camper to load the family up and take a vacation is not possible 
with the current availability of EV's out there.


Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual cost 
of the vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like to 
buy used vehicles with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 
grand(usually a lot less) and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car 
payment in over 15 years and do not want to be forced in to having to 
do so. With getting closer to retirement age every year, I do not 
want to be forced in to incurring debt. For me the goal is to be debt 
free, not have to fork over 30 grand or more just to be able to 
continue to transport myself around. People making decisions like no 
more gas engines for lawn mowers and such, they tend to live in some 
sort of state of constant debt, if they are in government they have 
no concept of not being in debt. Most will think I am crazy for 
thinking this way because society just wants to accept that debt is a 
necessary way of life. That debt for purchasing and converting to 
EV's and getting away from fossil fuels is in my mind not being 
fairly considered in the process.


Thank you,
Brian Webster


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube.   Seems
like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain...

On 2/14/22 09:56, li...@gogebicrange.net wrote:
Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with the 
EV’s

Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have often
wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how it
affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in
January and February.

Thanks,

Brandon

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery tech
gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel.

bp



On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also
 better at torque than diesel and gasoline.

 Where they don't shine is range when actually working.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 


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<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

 



 *From: *"Bill Prince"  
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>

 *To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
 *Sent: *Monday, Februa

Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

[Robert Andrews]

If you are doing a 300 mile trip, your stop at a supercharger for a 
Model Y would be about 10 minutes to add another 150 miles, so that's 
not bad when you would be stopping at a gas station for 10 minutes as 
well.  ( I haven't ever gotten out and put even 10 gallons in in less 
that 7 minutes with using the card and all that, you don't do any of 
that at a supercharger )   As far as towing is going, I think you will 
see more and more of the Electric Airstream campers coming down the road 
that have electric assist, to remove the range losses.   There are used 
EV's on the market and the only reason the prices are high is because 
the demand is there, the prices will drop as more used ones hit the 
market, but they will come with reduced range, which is a loss and a 
gain because the rest of the drivetrain will have a lot more use than a 
60K+ ICE vehicle...   So the only takeaway is that it's still a rapidly 
evolving market, but the ICE builders already see the writing on the 
wall  New teslas come with integrated battery packs which I think is 
going to be a problem in the future, but I am not going to be the one 
dealing with that...


On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote:

Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. For me it's 
not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one direction and then 
back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to want to take a trip and covers 
300 or more miles in that day on the long trip. I do not want to be limited to 
250 miles before I have to stop for an extended period to recharge. Personally 
that is a serious limit on my personal freedom of movement. For instance it's 
not uncommon for spring or winter breaks to drive from upstate NY to Florida in 
a single 24 hour period. When you only have a week for vacation tag team 
driving to get there with a carload of people is still cheaper than try to fly 
everyone. Also the restriction of being able to haul larger loads similarly are 
a big limitation. Having a 27 foot camper to load the family up and take a 
vacation is not possible with the current availability of EV's out there.

Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual cost of the 
vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like to buy used vehicles 
with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 grand(usually a lot less) 
and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car payment in over 15 years and do not 
want to be forced in to having to do so. With getting closer to retirement age 
every year, I do not want to be forced in to incurring debt. For me the goal is 
to be debt free, not have to fork over 30 grand or more just to be able to 
continue to transport myself around. People making decisions like no more gas 
engines for lawn mowers and such, they tend to live in some sort of state of 
constant debt, if they are in government they have no concept of not being in 
debt. Most will think I am crazy for thinking this way because society just 
wants to accept that debt is a necessary way of life. That debt for purchasing 
and converting to EV's and getting away from fossil fuels is in my mind not 
being fairly considered in the process.

Thank you,
Brian Webster


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube.   Seems
like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain...

On 2/14/22 09:56, li...@gogebicrange.net wrote:

Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with the EV’s
Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have often
wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how it
affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in
January and February.

Thanks,

Brandon

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery tech
gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel.

bp



On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also
 better at torque than diesel and gasoline.

 Where they don't shine is range when actually working.



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
 
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
 Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
 
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 The Broth

Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

[Robert Andrews]

EV's are the electric companies dream, with off hours charging, all 
those low WH usage numbers go up and billing goes up without 
infrastructure having to go up that much..   The execs are drooling with 
off hours incentives going down, but not away...

On 2/14/22 10:42, Josh Luthman wrote:
All you have to do is off peak charging.  Just like internet usage, it 
maxes out when everyone's watching Netflix with the dryer and stove running.


On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 12:22 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
mailto:jeffl...@att.net>> wrote:


There is the minor matter of our current electrical grid not being
able to handle the load we have now, in some places.

Better start building nuke plants!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 


On Feb 14, 2022, at 12:15 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:



It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery
tech gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel.


bp

On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also
better at torque than diesel and gasoline.

Where they don't shine is range when actually working.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Bill Prince" 

*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1
gallon of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80
KWH batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on the
rough equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas.


bp

On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

The funny thing is that while diesel has superior performance
to gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to
diesel in many ways.

Kinda ironic...



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Bill Prince" 

*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for people
who think EVs are the devil's spawn.

bp


On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

In the past year I've observed that agressive driving
seems to be the norm now.  More assholes, especially
pickups using farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke).  I
been thinking of investing in a stash of bumper stickers
to stick on their trucks that says "shoot me please".

On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote:

Its possible that with the lower threshold more folks
were able to be arrested before they couldgo fora
croaker cruise.

Its more probable though that ride sharing grew
during that period and the generation of party
drinkers used it more as a matter of trend.

Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise
inaccessible due to the rona too probably playeda
huge role, like the seeming disappearance of flu.



On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

During Covid, in 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

[Robert Andrews]

There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube.   Seems 
like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain...


On 2/14/22 09:56, li...@gogebicrange.net wrote:
Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with the EV’s 
Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have often 
wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how it 
affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in 
January and February.


Thanks,

Brandon

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery tech 
gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel.


bp



On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also
better at torque than diesel and gasoline.

Where they don't shine is range when actually working.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Bill Prince"  
*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1 gallon
of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80 KWH
batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on the rough
equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas.

bp



On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

The funny thing is that while diesel has superior performance to
gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to diesel
in many ways.

Kinda ironic...



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Bill Prince" 

*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for people
who think EVs are the devil's spawn.

bp



On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

In the past year I've observed that agressive driving seems
to be the norm now.  More assholes, especially pickups using
farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke).  I been thinking of
investing in a stash of bumper stickers to stick on their
trucks that says "shoot me please".

On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote:

Its possible that with the lower threshold more folks
were able to be arrested before they couldgo fora
croaker cruise.

Its more probable though that ride sharing grew during
that period and the generation of party drinkers used it
more as a matter of trend.

Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise
inaccessible due to the rona too probably playeda huge
role, like the seeming disappearance of flu.

On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

During Covid, in Utah, there have been the highest
rate of deaths ever recorded due to car crashes.

Meanwhile, at approximately the same time another
experiment was running.

Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol level for

Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

[Robert Andrews]

I used to drink double talls, so that was a vital addition...  I learned 
it when I worked for Nellcor, the head doctor gave me a clue...  That is 
the company that invented pulse oximetry..  They knew blood analysis...


On 2/14/22 09:50, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Now where was that information 40 years ago...
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 10:42 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
Yes, hyperventilating helps, but sucking pure O2 helps a LOT more...  I 
used to go down to the Mooney, that had O2 tankage and suck a hangover 
right away in 5-10 minutes...   It's also what they used to do on the 
sidelines at football games...   I eventually got a portable tank, 
because the parties were long and the drinking was hard...


On 2/14/22 9:33 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Yep, you metabolize roughly one drink of ethanol per hour on average.
So two hours and two drinks have evaporated from your system.
I have always wondered if hyperventilating would help.
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 10:25 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
I got pulled over by the CHP once just after leaving a bar ( they 
watched where I left from and looked for any excuse, I pulled over the 
double yellow to go around a double parked car )...   I only knew 
enough to ask for the blood test option that was available then. It 
took them over two hours to get me to the blood draw, spent the night 
in the tank, but after engaging a lawyer, he told me my test came back 
zero.   He had them retest until the samples where gone so there would 
never be any sample to retest...


On 2/14/22 8:39 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Drinking is like filling a barrel with a hole in it.  BAC is a tape 
measure inside the barrel.  Everyone has a different size hole in the 
bottom (their liver).  And everyone has a different sized barrel.  So 
if you have a big barrel and drink slow your liver can metabolize it 
in real time and you never feel any affects.  Tiny woman can be 
stewed on one good glass of wine, especially if she chugs it.

*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 8:24 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers
after my DUIs I had to do all the mandatory alcohol counselling. The 
.bac scale is weird, its like processing the alcohol out gets less 
efficient as consumption increased. At my weight way back then, 
150lbs at the time, I could evenly drink 3 beers in 1 hour and 
somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd it would cross that .08 threshold. 
it wasnt like each beer was .03 each. cause 2 beers an hour for 2 
hours would probably kick it over the limit. this was real beer, not 
utah water beer. I always assumed utah had very few DUIs because the 
water beer there made you spend more time peeing than drinking.
I hate those black smoke diesels, because no matter how much good 
will us right wingers build, one of those assholes always has to show 
up and make everybody hate us

On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 9:05 AM  wrote:

.05% is like half a beer.  I’d bet it’s more drinking at home,
less drinking out and about.  Basically what you said.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Sunday, February 13, 2022 3:28 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers

Its possible that with the lower threshold more folks were able
to be arrested before they couldgo fora croaker cruise.

Its more probable though that ride sharing grew during that
period and the generation of party drinkers used it more as a
matter of trend.

Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise inaccessible
due to the rona too probably playeda huge role, like the seeming
disappearance of flu.

On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

During Covid, in Utah, there have been the highest rate of
deaths ever recorded due to car crashes.

Meanwhile, at approximately the same time another experiment
was running.

Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol level for driving
from .08 to .05%.

Many, including myself, figured that there would not be a
significant difference.

But I also commented at the time that this one will be easy
to prove or disprove.

Deaths and crashes linked to drunken driving dropped by 19.8%
since the law took effect.  I think one could say that is
statistically significant.  Glad I was wrong.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Do I feel special

[Robert Andrews]

What was the actual reply address in the headers?

On 2/8/22 11:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

*From:* Mackenzie Scott
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:34 AM
*Subject:* Re:
Hello,
I'm Mackenzie Scott Ex-wife of Amazon CEO and founder, I'm donating $ 4 
billion Dollars to charities, individuals, colleges across the Globe 
from Scott's foundation, to provide immediate support to people 
suffering economically from COVID-19 pandemic and you're one of the 
lucky winners, i have a donation grant worth $100,800,000.00 Dollars for 
you, you can contact me for more information if you're interested.

Regards,
Mackenzie Scott.



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Re: [AFMUG] 20kw/hr in the bottom of my rack

[Robert Andrews]

Those run $1.7K plus shipping each from Signature Solar...

On 2/2/22 2:56 PM, Erich Kaiser wrote:

How much vs Generator?

I have always been a fan of both.

Erich Kaiser
er...@northcentraltower.com 
Office: 815-570-3101





On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 4:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


I would never want to be without a generator, irrespective of the
size of my battery.  A car crash on the right pole can have you out
of commercial power for days, I know of one road it was out for a
full month.  Freight train caught a transmission line and about 20
100’ poles all snapped off like dominos.
*From:* Peter Kranz via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 2, 2022 3:46 PM
*To:* Af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Peter Kranz
*Subject:* [AFMUG] 20kw/hr in the bottom of my rack

No more generator here.. 40hrs of backup battery capacity for this
500W site.







Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkranz@unwiredltd.com




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[Robert Andrews]

oh, I forgot shipping on that, which will apply to any you don't pick 
up, but Sig Solar I think is a little higher than a lot of others, which 
probably brings it close to .50/watt delivered...  But still probably 
$6K delivered for 12Kwatts?   Plus probably another $3K for the 
controller/inverters and probably another $1-2K for the racking...   And 
the govt will give you ~20-30% tax credits..  So if you build it 
yourself, you can be under 10K before credits...


On 1/19/22 1:00 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33 



$159/panel   for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough 
solar you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is 
the best use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's. 
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


    Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
    equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
    to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
    would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
    you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is 
nice.


    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
     wrote:
    >


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NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[Robert Andrews]

thats .42 / watt

On 1/19/22 1:00 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33 



$159/panel   for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough 
solar you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is 
the best use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's. 
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


    Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
    equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
    to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
    would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
    you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is 
nice.


    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
     wrote:
    >


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    AF@af.afmug.com
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NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any 
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any part of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive 
this communication in error or without authorization, please notify 
the originator immediately and remove it from your system.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[Robert Andrews]

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33

$159/panel   for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar 
you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is the best 
use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>


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the originator immediately and remove it from your system.



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Re: [AFMUG] What are you gents using?

[Robert Andrews]

Like suing you...

On 12/17/21 12:27 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:

Lol

I actually really like LTU, but I just think it’s safe to assume 
Ubiquiti will screw me over if I build a business around it.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, December 17, 2021 3:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] What are you gents using?

UBNT still around?

*From:*Jan-GAMs

*Sent:*Friday, December 17, 2021 12:29 PM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] What are you gents using?

Is ubnt LTU not being considered?

On 12/17/21 11:02, Mathew Howard wrote:

Yeah, that...

We've had pretty good luck with mmwave if we keep them under 1/4
mile or so, but that's about as far as you can push ptmp and keep a
reasonably reliable connection. ptp mmwave is useful for several
miles, if you use them for the right purposes.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 12:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

Like extreme short range, they quit in bad weather, things like
that?

*From:*Mathew Howard

*Sent:*Friday, December 17, 2021 11:45 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] What are you gents using?

Well, technically, mmwave radios pretty much do eliminate that
problem. It's just that they add a bunch of other problems...

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 12:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

Gee guys, I thought the mm wave radios were going to
eliminate the problem...

*From:*Daniel White

*Sent:*Friday, December 17, 2021 10:42 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jaime Solorza

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] What are you gents using?

Better antennas.  Smaller channels.  Closer sites to the
subscriber.  Better use of geography to block noise.  Lower
AGL of APs on towers.  More antenna gain.

This isn't an equipment question really... it is an RF
Engineering exercise.

All things equal equipment like Cambium 450 will outperform
equipment based on wifi chipsets (Cambium ePMP, Mimosa,
Ubiquiti).  Beamforming is a big plus (but only helps if the
subscribers are distributed).

I'd be using 30deg horns on everything I can.  Keep the subs
close in, and keep the AP's as low to the ground as possible
to prevent picking up distant interference.

Image removed by sender. photograph



*Daniel White
*Co-Founder

*phone:*+1 (702) 470-2770
*direct:*+1 (702) 470-2766

Jaime Solorza

December 17, 2021 at 09:34

Several WISPs in area are getting hammered with 5GHz
interference especially with DFS hits, the normal
channels are overcrowded...

Ubiquiti and Cambium is mostly what they are usinga
few Mimosa out there but I know one wisp who replaced
all of his with Cambium and 60Ghz AirFiber..

Any ideas?






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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: Grounded blankets

[Robert Andrews]

& safe from EMP!!

On 12/9/21 9:32 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Copper mesh couch cover and everyone is naked.  That will work.

-Original Message- From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 8:45 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: Grounded blankets

Bond the couch to master ground bus bar with #6 copper wire.  Use dual 
hole lugs, sand the mating surfaces and apply no-ox.
Use same wire gauge to bond wife with couch.  Location of wife's ground 
lugs varies by model, but check bottom of feet.


-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2021 6:23 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: Grounded blankets

Spray the couch with metallic paint.


bp


On 12/8/2021 3:12 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

So we're back to the time of year when the wife gets zapped when she
gets off the couch and the turns off a light, and complaining ensues.
I've tried to get her to wear a grounded wrist strap, which works, but
she complains about having to take it on and off.  Can I just get a
grounded blanket or something to just ground the couch?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Omicron Variant

[Robert Andrews]

Also the disaster that is ongoing and going to get much worse with a 
third and FOURTH atmospheric river arriving through this week.  This is 
a slow rolling nightmare up there...


On 11/29/21 9:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:



On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 7:47 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


"I built this castle with my own two slaves!"

Freakin classic.


On 11/27/2021 10:41 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
 > Am I the only one that thinks of this whenever I see it?
 >
 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia5c78zlyxw=4s

 >

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Omicron Variant

[Robert Andrews]

Thank you!

On 11/28/21 7:11 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:

Robert,


https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-59450988 



https://nypost.com/2021/11/27/omicron-variant-symptoms-unusual-but-mild-says-south-african-doctor/ 



https://www.newsweek.com/doctor-first-raised-concern-over-omicron-variant-says-symptoms-are-mild-south-africa-1653740 





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Sunday, November 28, 2021, 1:31:04 AM, you wrote:


Steve, do you have a link to the article from the original researcher?

On 11/27/21 10:06 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

	I'm trying to remember. It was a horror flick that the device was 
called the omnichron that was doing all the evil. I though it was the 
box from hell raise but it wasnt.
I am getting a kick out of this ones hype. I was reading about the 
researcher that identified this as trending. What she notice in 
commonality was how mild it was, no loss of taste and smell, slight 
fever, mild cough.
The mildness is what stood out to her. It's like all the viral penis 
points that mutated all went full cuck on this one. Very fitting


On Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 12:23 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


	I did not think of either one of those. I've never seen Futurama, and I 
was not aware of the watch.

Now I think of this

bp

On 11/27/2021 9:33 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Nope.
This is what I think of:



Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com 
www.microtrench-blades.com 

-Original Message-
From: Nate Burke
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 8:41 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Omicron Variant

Am I the only one that thinks of this whenever I see it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia5c78zlyxw=4s 



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Re: [AFMUG] OT having fun

[Robert Andrews]

Did you giggle like a mad scientist?

On 11/22/21 12:51 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I melted stainless steel in a consumer grade microwave oven this 
morning.  The melting temp of stainless was a bench mark temp I am 
trying to hit.  A consumer grade infrared thermometer that is supposed 
to go to 3000 F said it was 300F.  Can’t use thermocouples due to the 
high RF field inside.  Still looking for a way to measure the temp of 
the heating zone.
This is something I have been working on for a while.  It really works 
well.  I have some silicon carbide foam that absorbs microwaves embedded 
in some super high temp insulation.  I got it so hot it actually melted 
a hole in the foam and made a crater in the fire brick it was setting 
on.  No evidence of plasma, just pumping 1250 watts of energy into a 
very well insulated item.  I was astounded that it was glowing through 
the insulation.




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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

He does have expenses to cover...

On 11/19/21 2:00 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
speaking of that hispanic, Zimmerman, he sold his handgun at auction for 
250k. How much do you think this AR would go for at auction? Its got two 
bodies stacked, an owned bicep, and less than 100 rounds. Its not a 
Bushmaster (mass shooter preferred) and it is known in many memes.


Im betting well over 2 mil

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:57 PM Steve Jones <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


George zimmerman was in no way caucasion
Odd statement to make a bout POC

If mawell doesnt hang herself before evidence is submitted, i hope
we have a substantial increase in tragic suicides amongst the filthy
rich. Ill always be poor so Ill never know how it is those mopes got
to the point where doing what hey did seems acceptable. At some
point I guess as youre wealth increases the more your lessers look
like cattle to you, In that respect in adition the being effectively
rapists, in their eyes theyre also into beastiality

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Yeah, gonna have to disagree with you on that one Steve.
But lets’ get back to picking on Ghislane or the media.
Otherwise we are going to have the thermal breaker kill our power.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 2:42 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent
other than that dumb lady climbing through a window into a
secure area there werent any insurrection related deaths.
the riot at the capitol is  a prime example of  the media
breeding strife, they call that an insurrection, but the attack
on the supreme court a protest (they just couldnt get through
the door because the wrists were too weak). Coequal branches,
different narratives, same intent.
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:06 PM Robert Andrews
 wrote:

Aaaa now we've gone too far, because I want to
respond with the
insurrection deaths as part of this...

On 11/19/21 12:56 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
 > BLM didnt come today, something was told to the media
about a lack of
 > security.
 > I think that was the legit arm of BLM, the political
activist side.
 > They saw a lack of visible troops and know theyre about
one more brick
 > through a window from losing their voice (and cash flow)
 > This really disappointed every media outfit of a
particular slant. you
 > could hear the disappointment in their voice.
 >
 > The media is irritated that the trial was in november.
Cold rocks are
 > harder to throw. And this particular verdict would have
been guaranteed
 > to drive gunfights in the street. I wouldnt be surprised
if MSNBC doesnt
 > file a suit against the prosecutor for not bringing this
to trial in
 > better weather.
 >
 > It just sucks that 2 people had to die and guy become a
cripple to
 > remind people to stay in their own lane. Hopefully this
will give people
 > a winter to reflect on the damage the media narrative does.
 >
 > On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 1:30 PM Nate Burke
 <mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:
 >
 > Or there are just fewer people at higher latitudes.
 >
 > On 11/19/2021 1:20 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
 >> I have often wondered about a graph showing crime versus
 >> latitude.  Are colder areas more peaceful?
 >> *From:* Nate Burke
 >> *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 12:18 PM
 >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent
 >> It's also 40 degrees outside, people rage level also
is affected
 >> by their level of comfort.
 >>
 >> Drive through Gary on a winters night when it's -20
and it's
 >> probably one of the safest places.  (note- I've Done
this, didn't
 >> see a single person outside)
 >>
 >> On 11/19/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
 >>> Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
 >>> (I hope I don’t regret this)
 >>> The news media 

Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

Which brings us to a rich white kid raping 4 women and a judge saying 
it's not worth jail time.  Sorry that we just don't have the country we 
advertise.   This kid grows up and becomes exactly what you are talking 
about.


On 11/19/21 1:57 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

George zimmerman was in no way caucasion
Odd statement to make a bout POC

If mawell doesnt hang herself before evidence is submitted, i hope we 
have a substantial increase in tragic suicides amongst the filthy rich. 
Ill always be poor so Ill never know how it is those mopes got to the 
point where doing what hey did seems acceptable. At some point I guess 
as youre wealth increases the more your lessers look like cattle to you, 
In that respect in adition the being effectively rapists, in their eyes 
theyre also into beastiality


On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:


Yeah, gonna have to disagree with you on that one Steve.
But lets’ get back to picking on Ghislane or the media.
Otherwise we are going to have the thermal breaker kill our power.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 2:42 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent
other than that dumb lady climbing through a window into a secure
area there werent any insurrection related deaths.
the riot at the capitol is  a prime example of  the media breeding
strife, they call that an insurrection, but the attack on the
supreme court a protest (they just couldnt get through the door
because the wrists were too weak). Coequal branches, different
narratives, same intent.
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:06 PM Robert Andrews
 wrote:

Aaaa now we've gone too far, because I want to respond
with the
insurrection deaths as part of this...

On 11/19/21 12:56 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
 > BLM didnt come today, something was told to the media about a
lack of
 > security.
 > I think that was the legit arm of BLM, the political activist
side.
 > They saw a lack of visible troops and know theyre about one
more brick
 > through a window from losing their voice (and cash flow)
 > This really disappointed every media outfit of a particular
slant. you
 > could hear the disappointment in their voice.
 >
 > The media is irritated that the trial was in november. Cold
rocks are
 > harder to throw. And this particular verdict would have been
guaranteed
 > to drive gunfights in the street. I wouldnt be surprised if
MSNBC doesnt
 > file a suit against the prosecutor for not bringing this to
trial in
 > better weather.
 >
 > It just sucks that 2 people had to die and guy become a
cripple to
 > remind people to stay in their own lane. Hopefully this will
give people
 > a winter to reflect on the damage the media narrative does.
 >
 > On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 1:30 PM Nate Burke  <mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:
 >
 > Or there are just fewer people at higher latitudes.
 >
 > On 11/19/2021 1:20 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
 >> I have often wondered about a graph showing crime versus
 >> latitude.  Are colder areas more peaceful?
 >> *From:* Nate Burke
 >> *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 12:18 PM
 >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent
 >> It's also 40 degrees outside, people rage level also is
affected
 >> by their level of comfort.
 >>
 >> Drive through Gary on a winters night when it's -20 and it's
 >> probably one of the safest places.  (note- I've Done this,
didn't
 >> see a single person outside)
 >>
 >> On 11/19/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
 >>> Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
 >>> (I hope I don’t regret this)
 >>> The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in
 >>> Wisconsin.
 >>> Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
 >>> Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for
violence”.
 >>> Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
 >>> It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are
sick of riots.
 >>> But the media are certainly not sick of them.
 >>>
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

Not likely does not equal never..  & I never said he should just take 
it, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.  & yes a ruptured spleen 
will kill you IF you refuse medical treatment, why it was "_Involuntary 
Manslaughter_" instead of murder.  But then again spin is 
everywhere.   He shouldn't have been walking down the street with an 
AR-15, how about that?  And looking at a site that claimed video of kyle 
offering EMT services, no video, could you help find that video?




On 11/19/21 1:42 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
You sound like the prosecutor... he just should have taken his beating 
and liked it, right? Everyone who attacked the kid had a violent past.


Skateboards never kill people...oh wait... 
https://www.northcoastjournal.com/NewsBlog/archives/2021/05/05/man-found-guilty-in-skateboard-attack-death-of-good-samaritan 
<https://www.northcoastjournal.com/NewsBlog/archives/2021/05/05/man-found-guilty-in-skateboard-attack-death-of-good-samaritan>



On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:34 PM Robert Andrews <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:


Hold them accountable with _Due Process_   which this kid got but the
"rioters" didn't.   I think if it was your relative that was dead in
the
street YOUR perspective might be different.   No one died in this event
_Except_ as a result of this kid.   Was it right that the guy was
beating him with a skateboard, NO.  Was he going to die from the
beating
with a skateboard?  Not likely...  Was he at a house/business defending
it/them?  No  Was he a perfect Media (either side) tool, most
certainly...

On 11/19/21 1:19 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
 > So in your view the riots, burning, looting are ok but not
 > the holding of them accountable.  Wonder if it were your
 > house or business (or families) if you would feel differently.
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

He wouldn't have made it out of the street alive..

On 11/19/21 1:41 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I am absolutely certain of that.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 2:39 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent
Sorry dudes but had he been a person of color this would have been way 
different...

Facts are behind me...
On Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 12:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
(I hope I don’t regret this)
The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in Wisconsin.
Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of riots.
But the media are certainly not sick of them.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

Hold them accountable with _Due Process_   which this kid got but the 
"rioters" didn't.   I think if it was your relative that was dead in the 
street YOUR perspective might be different.   No one died in this event 
_Except_ as a result of this kid.   Was it right that the guy was 
beating him with a skateboard, NO.  Was he going to die from the beating 
with a skateboard?  Not likely...  Was he at a house/business defending 
it/them?  No  Was he a perfect Media (either side) tool, most certainly...


On 11/19/21 1:19 PM, Larry Smith wrote:

So in your view the riots, burning, looting are ok but not
the holding of them accountable.  Wonder if it were your
house or business (or families) if you would feel differently.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

Watching the PBS show, you get reminded that we went to war with Spain 
because Hearst wanted to sell papers.


On 11/19/21 1:22 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Yeah, a dumb kid looking for excitement, cloaked in a self appointed 
robe of a noble cause, or so he told himself.

Sad all the way around.
My focus is how the media seems like they would almost start something 
just so they can have something to broadcast.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 2:03 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

No comments on the riots or lack thereof, but it seems to me that the 
young twerp crossed state lines with a semi-automatic to be the 
self-appointed "police", and as a result a couple of people died. If 
said young twerp had stayed home and watched Chuck Norris on TV, maybe 
no one would have died, and maybe a few windows might have been broken.


I do not hold windows and lives as equivalent.

bp


On 11/19/2021 11:07 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
(I hope I don’t regret this)
The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in Wisconsin.
Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of riots.
But the media are certainly not sick of them.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

Aaaa now we've gone too far, because I want to respond with the 
insurrection deaths as part of this...


On 11/19/21 12:56 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
BLM didnt come today, something was told to the media about a lack of 
security.

I think that was the legit arm of BLM, the political activist side.
They saw a lack of visible troops and know theyre about one more brick 
through a window from losing their voice (and cash flow)
This really disappointed every media outfit of a particular slant. you 
could hear the disappointment in their voice.


The media is irritated that the trial was in november. Cold rocks are 
harder to throw. And this particular verdict would have been guaranteed 
to drive gunfights in the street. I wouldnt be surprised if MSNBC doesnt 
file a suit against the prosecutor for not bringing this to trial in 
better weather.


It just sucks that 2 people had to die and guy become a cripple to 
remind people to stay in their own lane. Hopefully this will give people 
a winter to reflect on the damage the media narrative does.


On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 1:30 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


Or there are just fewer people at higher latitudes.

On 11/19/2021 1:20 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I have often wondered about a graph showing crime versus
latitude.  Are colder areas more peaceful?
*From:* Nate Burke
*Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 12:18 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent
It's also 40 degrees outside, people rage level also is affected
by their level of comfort.

Drive through Gary on a winters night when it's -20 and it's
probably one of the safest places.  (note- I've Done this, didn't
see a single person outside)

On 11/19/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
(I hope I don’t regret this)
The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in
Wisconsin.
Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of riots.
But the media are certainly not sick of them.





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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

Except Russia, everyone stays out in Russia...

On 11/19/21 11:18 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
It's also 40 degrees outside, people rage level also is affected by 
their level of comfort.


Drive through Gary on a winters night when it's -20 and it's probably 
one of the safest places.  (note- I've Done this, didn't see a single 
person outside)


On 11/19/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
(I hope I don’t regret this)
The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in Wisconsin.
Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of riots.
But the media are certainly not sick of them.







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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Robert Andrews]

Did anyone watch the PBS special on WR Hearst?  Where we get our "media" 
bias towards sensationalism..   Watching that you really get a sense of 
History and being doomed to repeat it.


On 11/19/21 11:07 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
(I hope I don’t regret this)
The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in Wisconsin.
Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of riots.
But the media are certainly not sick of them.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Help me win this contest

[Robert Andrews]

After looking at the clues and guesses, and your input, I double down 
with this answer...


On 11/16/21 10:31 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Espresso machine?

On 11/16/21 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I will split the prize with you.
https://www.z104country.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MYSOUND090821.WAV.wav 


You gotta be able to receive the FM broadcast signal direct to win.
List of clues and prior guesses here:
https://www.z104country.com/contests/
It sounds like a single stroke machine.  Probably a limit switch shuts 
off the motor.  Motor has a characteristic of a hermetically sealed 
compressor.
Like an orange squeezer.  I would guess a punch press but since this 
is on a regular broadcast station I doubt it is a relatively obscure 
piece of industrial equipment.

But what would a person have that is electro mechanical single stoke?





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Re: [AFMUG] OT Help me win this contest

[Robert Andrews]

Espresso machine?

On 11/16/21 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I will split the prize with you.
https://www.z104country.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MYSOUND090821.WAV.wav
You gotta be able to receive the FM broadcast signal direct to win.
List of clues and prior guesses here:
https://www.z104country.com/contests/
It sounds like a single stroke machine.  Probably a limit switch shuts 
off the motor.  Motor has a characteristic of a hermetically sealed 
compressor.
Like an orange squeezer.  I would guess a punch press but since this is 
on a regular broadcast station I doubt it is a relatively obscure piece 
of industrial equipment.

But what would a person have that is electro mechanical single stoke?



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Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees

[Robert Andrews]

I wonder if we will lose messages.android.com

On 11/15/21 12:41 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
How do you send an SMS from a computer to a phone?  Doesn't there have 
to be an intermediary system in there somewhere, Be it Email or an API?  
Maybe DOD number would be the more correct term, the number that is 
sourced on the SMS message when it enters the mobile carrier network.


On 11/15/2021 2:36 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I really don’t get why DIDs are called out.  You can send SMS from any 
computer to any phone.  Does DID not mean “Direct Inward Dial” in this 
context?

*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 1:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
Yes this is a new requirement by the carriers. It is their way of 
keeping spam down. Everyone who uses sms is going to have to do this. 
Full implementation has been pushed out many times, but it looks like 
they are finally going to start forcing it.

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 2:24 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

I think so?  This is from the TOS you have to accept before any
payment is made at campaignregistry.com
. I think you can register 49 DID's
per Campaign.

But I'm guessing that each business would have to be a separate
campaign.



On 11/15/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

So just DIDs and not just regular lines?

-Original Message- From: Nate Burke Sent: Monday,
November 15, 2021 1:08 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] VoIP
SMS campaign fees
I saw a notice from Voip Innovations that any business DID's that
send SMS messages to a consumer in any way now have to be
registered with 'Campaignregistry.com'  Looks like this requires
a $200 signup, and then potentially $10/month/DID. Anyone already
gone through this?  Talking to VI, it seems they're not even
sure, but it's a VI requirement by Dec 15.

The whole process seems confusing.  Luckily I only have 1
customer that Uses the SMS services, and I have it setup on our
office number so customers can text in requests, and pictures
(which we have never publicized, but happens frequently)

VI Makes it seem like non-compliance will be expensive.
$10,000/violation keeps being referenced.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Palo Alto City UUT

[Robert Andrews]

Somewhere there is a class action brewing...   I wonder if it's really 
Palo Alto or just the cell provider being dodgy...  Looking on the 
positive side maybe it's something legit...


On 11/2/21 3:44 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Be fun to raise hell and see if they will adjust it off and credit you 
for many years of overcharging.


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 2:13 PM
To: AFMUG
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Palo Alto City UUT


Here's a curious one. My wife & I have cell service through Verizon.
It's a simple plan with unlimited text, unlimited talk, and more data
than we can use. We pay a fee for the service, and we pay a "fixed
amount" for each phone. So far, so good.

However, for some reason that I've never explored until this week, my
wife's "fixed amount" is 28 cents more than mine. It's always been that
way (25+ years now), and I always wondered, but never investigated.

Yesterday I finally investigated. Turns out, the extra 28 cents is in
the part labeled "fees and government charges". Looking into that a
little more finds a fee called "Palo Alto City UUT" in the amount of,
you guessed it, 28 cents.

Now, if I lived in the city of Palo Alto, I might consider that normal.
However, we don't live in the city of Palo Alto.

In fact, we don't even live in the same county as Palo Alto. While Palo
Alto is relatively close, it IS in the next county. Is this even legal?
How can a city in the next county charge my wife's phone (and not mine)
a utility tax?

Have any of you looked in your Verizon bill lately?




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Breakfast is served

[Robert Andrews]

$1800 dinner with my boss in Los Gatos CA, but that was just after the 
IPO and included a $800 bottle of wine...   Because we could...


On 11/1/21 2:45 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

How many in your party?
$500 ish for 4 at Cattleman's in Fabens Texas..included adult beverages.

On Mon, Nov 1, 2021, 3:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


2 Years ago I had a $600 dinner in Monaco.  At least I have the
bragging
right.  Something like 20 courses.

-Original Message-
From: Jan-GAMs
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 12:29 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Breakfast is served

I had dinner once at the alamoana hotel in Waikiki Honolulu 40 years
ago.  It cost me $110, the steak was smaller than a hamburger with a
smidgen of gravy on it and the potatoes were about the size of grapes,
three of them.  Three dinky carrots and maybe 4 peas.  I never felt so
ripped-off in my life.  Hate to think what that meal would cost today!
Two ways to get there: by plane or by boat.  With the
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop;, might be able to get there
and back in time to finish you coffee break.

On 11/1/21 10:44, Bill Prince wrote:
 > Renting Robert's JGC for 2 days. Add another $250.
 >
 >
 > bp
 > 
 >
 > On 11/1/2021 10:40 AM, Robert wrote:
 >> It's only 10 hours round trip here and the JGC does 32mpg, so
probably 1
 >> tankful at $4/gal x 27 gals.. $115 ish...
 >>
 >> On 11/1/21 10:22 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >>> Plus 24 hours driving and about $300 in fuel for the truck.
 >>>
 >>> So about $304.94
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> bp
 >>> 
 >>>
 >>> On 11/1/2021 10:12 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  Ogies Café in SLC
 
  2 Eggs, Hashbrowns, Toast $4.94
  Was $1.99 20 years ago.
 
 
 
 
  From: Steven Kenney
  Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 8:45 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Breakfast is served
 
  For a sit down in a restaurant, just your usual 3 eggs bacon
toast etc
  will be $15 per person easily.  In fact once you get taxed and
tip
  it'll be $20 per.
 
  On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
  wrote:
 
 
  Is that $8 Canadian (I presume)? That's like $6.50 at today's
exchange
  rate. I go out for breakfast with friends a couple times a
month, and
  my breakfast usually runs between $20 and $24 depending on the
place.
  In Canadian dollars that is between $25 and $30.
 
 
 
  bp 
  On 11/1/2021 5:35 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
 
  In Canada Tim Hortons actually has a steak and egg sandwich
now. Gave
  it a shot as most of their breakfast sandwiches are horrible. 
This one

  is absolutely fantastic, only costs $5 ! Canada now you want
breakfast
  expect to pay a minimum of $8 for a coffee and breakfast sandwich!
 
  On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 12:11 PM Jaime Solorza
  mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
 
  Toro Bronco breakfasta bit much..but it was awesome
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Air Tags

[Robert Andrews]

Doesn't it use any "I" device with bluetooth on?  cpus included?

On 11/1/21 10:47 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
The phones will pickup the Bluetooth beacon and relay the phone’s gps to 
the tracking service.


Basically a GPS by proxy on behalf of the tracking token.

It relies on random folks wandering by and the Bluetooth token snagging 
enough “air time” to report home.


Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com 

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Monday, November 1, 2021 12:45 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Air Tags

Being lazy and not wanting to do the research.

How do the air tags work.  In other words, how do they get connectivity 
to the world.  Most of the stuff I have read talks about blue tooth but 
that isnt worth anything over distance.


I rent out some construction equipment and I am thinking of putting them 
on the equipment.  But I need a better understanding.





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Breakfast is served

[Robert Andrews]

Last round trip to SLC, with the mod chip, I averaged a little over 80 
Mph and got 33 mpg  That was including the city driving, but there was a 
tail wind on 80... which I drove mostly over 90...peak speed was well 
over 100...


On 11/1/21 10:44 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Renting Robert's JGC for 2 days. Add another $250.


bp


On 11/1/2021 10:40 AM, Robert wrote:
It's only 10 hours round trip here and the JGC does 32mpg, so probably 
1 tankful at $4/gal x 27 gals..  $115 ish...


On 11/1/21 10:22 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Plus 24 hours driving and about $300 in fuel for the truck.

So about $304.94


bp


On 11/1/2021 10:12 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Ogies Café in SLC

2 Eggs, Hashbrowns, Toast $4.94
Was $1.99 20 years ago.




From: Steven Kenney
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 8:45 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Breakfast is served

For a sit down in a restaurant, just your usual 3 eggs bacon toast 
etc will be $15 per person easily.  In fact once you get taxed and 
tip it'll be $20 per.


On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 10:42 AM Bill Prince  
wrote:



Is that $8 Canadian (I presume)? That's like $6.50 at today's 
exchange rate. I go out for breakfast with friends a couple times a 
month, and my breakfast usually runs between $20 and $24 depending 
on the place. In Canadian dollars that is between $25 and $30.




bp 
On 11/1/2021 5:35 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

In Canada Tim Hortons actually has a steak and egg sandwich now. 
Gave it a shot as most of their breakfast sandwiches are horrible. 
This one is absolutely fantastic, only costs $5 ! Canada now you 
want breakfast expect to pay a minimum of $8 for a coffee and 
breakfast sandwich!


On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 12:11 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:


Toro Bronco breakfasta bit much..but it was awesome









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Re: [AFMUG] POE cams, local software suggestions?

[Robert Andrews]

Xeoma

On 10/20/21 9:57 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I hear a bunch about Blue Iris.  I'll look into this one.

I'm hoping for something that works on "Linux" like Centos, RHEL, 
FedoraDebian...in a perfect world.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 10:14 PM Colin Stanners > wrote:


Look at Blue Iris software. Free trial. Supports almost any IP
camera, good plugin-free web interface for desktop and mobile.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 9:11 PM Josh Luthman,
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
wrote:

I'm looking for something like Ubnt in terms of form factor but
I need the software to work right.  Pretty much just record and
IP access is all I'm after.  Motion would be a nice plus.
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Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Robert Andrews]

i.e. trying to create a ground loop.

On 9/2/21 9:17 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I have always been told all grounds have to go to the building common 
point ground.  So if that was farther than 20 feet then there is a 
conflict.  Secondary ground rods are a no no here.

*From:* James Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, September 2, 2021 9:01 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

We’ve been told the code applies to tv antenna wire as well.  Anything 
that “pierces the envelope” by coming from the outside to the inside.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, September 2, 2021 9:52 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

Does that include low voltage?

Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 1, 2021, at 7:18 PM, James Howard  wrote:



Is it a Wisconsin thing that you have a to have any wire that
penetrates the building “envelope” grounded within 20 feet of
penetration to meet code?   Seems like if you have to ground it
anyway within 20 feet of entry, put the POE there and then they can
have their extender wherever they want along the rest of the run.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 4:45 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

all but the exterior cable run of maybe 12 feet. theyre extending
their building out and putting up another building in the current LOS

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 3:43 PM James Howard  wrote:

Just out of curiosity, if he can put a network rack at the
midpoint, how much of this is inside buildings?

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:26 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the
extender, irritating

he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in
the midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there
instead of all this other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we
get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett
 wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without
the extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might
just work without any faffing around.

On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a customer fixed on using
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to
extend his epmp f300 radio run to 400+ feet.

if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v
drop on the 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If
it does manage to keep the radio powered i see it
burning out the poe circuit.

hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the
midspan point and using his own POE to power the extender.

Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its
happening, but I want to make sure my math is correct

using

https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html

24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im
not sure about the resistivity field

this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and
initiates tickets on every blip, so i see this radio
move just becoming a nightmare with this midspan
extender in play

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Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

[Robert Andrews]

the WISPA offender registry...

On 9/1/21 11:53 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Might get me on some kind of offender registry.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:19 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5

+1
Use SS or blow ports up during thunderstorms.  Those are the only two 
options.


Chuck should open a trenchcoat to reveal an assortment of surge 
protectors inside.


On 9/1/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
When he does this, just for shits connect the PSU at the beginning and 
bridge all the middle stuff and just see if it works.  I will be it 
will be just fine.
However I am certain he needs a ton of surge protectors at each end of 
all ethernet runs just sayin’

*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 1, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] resistivity of cat5
thats what i suggested trying first, customer wanted the extender, 
irritating
he finally has caved now and will be putting a network rack in the 
midpoint and is going to place a managed switch there instead of all 
this other unsupportable cobbling. Sometimes we get a win.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:55 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, but has it already been tried without the
extender?

400ft is beyond 100m, but not by all that much.  It might just
work without any faffing around.

On 9/1/2021 11:16 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

I have a customer fixed on using
https://i.mt.lv/cdn/product_files/GPeRqg_190928.pdf to extend his
epmp f300 radio run to 400+ feet.
if im calculating this right there will be about a 10v drop on
the 24guage cat5, taking the 30v down to 20. If it does manage to
keep the radio powered i see it burning out the poe circuit.
hes fighting me on putting the cambium PSU at the midspan point
and using his own POE to power the extender.
Ive been overruled about telling the customer no, so its
happening, but I want to make sure my math is correct
using
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/voltage-drop-calculator.html
24guage, 30v, .5 amp, 400 feet shows 10v drop. but im not sure
about the resistivity field
this is a guy who runs constant latency monitoring and initiates
tickets on every blip, so i see this radio move just becoming a
nightmare with this midspan extender in play

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[AFMUG] FCC and residential antennas (OTARD)

[Robert Andrews]

There was a proposed modification to the FCC "blessings" for permitting 
multiple antennas on residential buildings under OTARD.   Did that ever 
go anywhere?


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Hey Bill

[Robert Andrews]

Ash so heavy in Reno today, that you can see the grain in the particles. 
 Looks like sand on the hood of the dark truck..


On 8/6/21 10:13 AM, Ryan Ray wrote:
Neat website. Smoke Forecast - FireSmoke.ca 



On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 9:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF > wrote:


I found the satellite photos interesting.  If you watch the loop
carefully when the clouds get right over the hot spot a tail
develops like they are dumping water.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Friday, August 6, 2021 10:47 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Hey Bill

We had that for quite some time last summer. Was not fun. In fact,
we were also evacuated for the CZU fire last August. PG installed
a fire watch camera at our house after the CZU fire had settled
down, and we've watched flare-ups from it for (now) almost a year.

Get used to it. It won't stop until we burn it all.

bp


On 8/6/2021 9:34 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Keep your smoke to yourself.  It is like fog here.  Never seen out
of state smoke so dense.  I am expecting freeway pileups.  And it
all came in like a wall this morning.  Just clear sunny one moment
then BAM.   Like those huge dust walls that cross Phoenix now and
then.
If you want to send us smoke, make sure it is the right kind of
smoke...



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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Robert Andrews]

I would keep the pieces separate just to make the functionality 
straightforward.   If you don't need a lot of power or Ethernet 
monitoring you can keep the charge controller prices down in the $200 
range.  The converter is like $100 so you can do the whole thing very 
cheaply with the prices of solar panels being so low.


On 7/2/21 10:30 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
It may come to that. Just wondered if there was a single charge 
controller that could do that.


The closest I have dreamed up is a hybrid wind/solar charge controller, 
and feeding the wind input with rectified AC. I would want to reduce the 
rectified DC from the AC enough that it would drop below the input 
voltage of the solar.



bp


On 7/2/2021 10:22 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
So to translate, you want to feed a battery bank with two sources, 
Grid and Solar.    So you want a AC->DC converter feeding a charge 
controller and another charge controller fed by solar.


On 7/2/21 10:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we 
don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied 
goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented 
by solar.



bp


On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but 
at least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie 
your solar into them, and your batteries into them, and they will 
manage the solar+AC consumption in a way to minimize the AC 
consumption.    You'd have to look at each one to determine if their 
implementation would work in your situation.


Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a 
grid-tied inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering 
rules).



On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:


    Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the
    opposite of
    what we are looking for.


    bp
    

    On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
    >
https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta 



    >
    >
    > On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
    >> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units. You could add
    any
    >> solar controller to the mix.
    >> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
    >> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
    >> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
    >> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
    >>
    >> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
    >> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
    >> To: AFMUG
    >> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
    >>
    >> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have
    a few
    >> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC
    UPS to
    >> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on
    the 48VDC,
    >> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
    >>
    >> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of 
reasons.
    >> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected 
rolling

    >> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if
    the solar
    >> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We
    live in a
    >> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11
    hours of
    >> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an
    appropriately
    >> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a 
generator.

    >>
    >> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can
    take 2 power
    >> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just
    rectified AC?).
    >>
    >> Any help from the borg?
    >>
    >>
    >

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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Robert Andrews]

So to translate, you want to feed a battery bank with two sources, Grid 
and Solar.So you want a AC->DC converter feeding a charge controller 
and another charge controller fed by solar.


On 7/2/21 10:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
The problem is, we do not want it to be grid-tied; mainly because we 
don't want to go through the hassle of the county and their grid-tied 
goo-rah. We want this to be standalone, DC plant with power augmented by 
solar.



bp


On 7/1/2021 11:32 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I'm not sure about the exact models which are being recommended, but 
at least a few of these inverters are designed such that you tie your 
solar into them, and your batteries into them, and they will manage 
the solar+AC consumption in a way to minimize the AC consumption.
You'd have to look at each one to determine if their implementation 
would work in your situation.


Also, are you somewhere that it doesn't just make sense to do a 
grid-tied inverter and do net metering?   (I.E. poor net metering rules).



On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 4:57 PM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Again, that has an inverter to supply the load. That is the
opposite of
what we are looking for.


bp


On 7/1/2021 1:06 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>

https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta

>
>
> On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units. You could add
any
>> solar controller to the mix.
>> There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
>> I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I
>> searched for islanding grid tie inverter:
>> https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
>> To: AFMUG
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?
>>
>> We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have
a few
>> sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC
UPS to
>> keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on
the 48VDC,
>> with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.
>>
>> We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of reasons.
>> First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected rolling
>> blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if
the solar
>> can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We
live in a
>> relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11
hours of
>> usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an
appropriately
>> sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a generator.
>>
>> I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can
take 2 power
>> inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just
rectified AC?).
>>
>> Any help from the borg?
>>
>>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

[Robert Andrews]

https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/6kw-120-240v-grid-tie-inverter-by-delta

On 7/1/21 12:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Outback power makes inverter/charger combo units.  You could add any 
solar controller to the mix.

There are islanding inverters that are an all in one unit.
I don't know anything about this product but it came up when I searched 
for islanding grid tie inverter:

https://www.pika-energy.com/islanding-inverter/

-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 12:25 PM
To: AFMUG
Subject: [AFMUG] Hybrid AC/Solar charge controller?

We are looking for a hybrid AC/Solar charge controller. We have a few
sites that are primarily powered by the grid on AC using  a DC UPS to
keep up a 48VDC plant. Most of the equipment runs directly on the 48VDC,
with a few legacy devices running on 24VDC.

We want to augment the AC power with solar for a couple of reasons.
First, it will provide recharge for the AC during expected rolling
blackouts. Second, we can reduce the overall AC/grid costs if the solar
can provide the bulk of the power when the sun is shining. We live in a
relatively solar-friendly environment, and typicially get 5-11 hours of
usable solar per day, depending on season. We think an appropriately
sized solar/battery setup could eliminate the need for a generator.

I'd like to find an off the shelf solar controller that can take 2 power
inputs; one from solar, and one from AC (or maybe just rectified AC?).

Any help from the borg?




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Re: [AFMUG] Sterilizing a raccoon latrine

[Robert Andrews]

This is one that you probably should get right before attempting, 
because you don't want to be dead wrong...


On 6/15/21 11:51 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Nah - ammonia and bleach make chlorine gas.    Breath the gas and it 
mixes with the water in your lungs and you get hydrochloric acid in your 
lungs.  Doesn’t work out well.


Mark

On Jun 15, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Steve Jones > wrote:


Was verifying chlorine and peroxide wont get nasty and found out that 
household bleach and ammonia make chloroform. Now whenever the wife 
starts yapping I have a resolution to the noise


On Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 12:23 AM Steve Jones > wrote:


Ha, when I was a kid I thought mustard gas was a lie. I literally
thought they were talking about bombs filled with mustard. I was a
very skeptical kid, that and dumb

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 4:42 PM Jan-GAMs mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net>> wrote:

Anything higher than 3% solution can cause your skin to
disappear too.  Fortunately it evaporates rather quickly in
sunlight.  If you breathe it in concentrated amounts it can
cause instant pneumonia.  Instant mutant lungs.  Be somewhere
else besides above the fumes.  If you don't use a high enough
concentrate, the racoon-shit may not disappear.  Glad I'm not
there.  You might have thought mustard-gas used in ww1 was
bad, this is close to the same stuff.

On 6/14/21 10:08 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Ha, I was just reading the MSDS for Hydrogen Peroxide. Its a
mutagen and will cause mutations. that explains why theres so
many freaks out there now, we use this everythwhere and
dentists have us gargle with it

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:40 AM dave via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

I think a Flame thrower will work for this..


On 6/11/21 4:50 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

We have a new site that had been abandoned for some
time, there is a massive racoon latrine in the work
area. Apparently theres a bad worm in them we can get,
not to mention the fungal infection risk. We are going
to be clearing it out, but need to sterilize as we go.
And minimize airborne particulate even though we will
have respirators. Is there a good fungicide, sterilant
for this? I plan on pump spraying bleach on clean up day
to murder as much nasty as we can and keep the dust down
but didnt know if theres a better option. We arent
talking a couple turds, this is mounds upon mounds of it
mixed with bird poop. It will probably be hundreds of
pounds of nasty



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Re: [AFMUG] solar panels

[Robert Andrews]

Just looked at the site and didn't see them anymore, so it's a gone deal...

On 6/4/21 12:59 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
Yeah, I suppose some kind of continuous load that will take whatever the 
panel can put outlike a big resistor with a heat sink.


Then meter the WH output.  Do it in a dark room and have a constant 
light source that's the same for each panel being tested.  Mount each 
sample in the same position.


Sounds simple in theory, but I ain't got the time for that stuff.


On 6/4/2021 3:54 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
It seems like it should be relatively simple to build a test setup 
where you could just shine some kind of a light on it, and measure the 
output compared to a new panel... whether or not it would be worth the 
bother for anybody to do that, is another matter.


On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 2:42 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


There must be a way...

My Father-in-law works at a lab at Cornell where they wanted a
number of panels with all exactly the same efficiency for a
research project.  Not sure the test method, but obviously they
figured one out.


On 6/4/2021 3:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

How do you guage a level of used on solar panels? Age? Visual
issues? Can you test efficiency reliably, like set up a uv light
and specified distance in dark room and measure output? As they
age what's the curve look like on efficiency loss?

On Fri, Jun 4, 2021, 1:12 PM David Coudron
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:

What you see on snail roads.

I am guessing they are smears of some kind that affect the
clear top layer?

Get Outlook for iOS 

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:09:14 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar panels

Some of the used ones list defects in the description. Saw
one that said "cracked", and another said "snail tracks". WTH
are snail tracks?


bp


On 6/4/2021 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Ah, they are used.  I wonder how much used...
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 11:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar panels
I haven't seen anything that will beat this.  $45/panel for
224watts.


https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/224w-60cell-silver-poly-solar-panel-by-sharp

On 6/4/21 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Who has the best deals for solar panels these days?




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Re: [AFMUG] solar panels

[Robert Andrews]

Snail tracks are breakdowns in the sub strait I have a bunch of old 
panels I got with a house I bought and are covered in snail tracks. 
They still are outputting within 5% of spec.


On 6/4/21 11:11 AM, David Coudron wrote:

What you see on snail roads.

I am guessing they are smears of some kind that affect the clear top layer?

Get Outlook for iOS 

*From:* AF  on behalf of Bill Prince 


*Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:09:14 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar panels

Some of the used ones list defects in the description. Saw one that said 
"cracked", and another said "snail tracks". WTH are snail tracks?



bp


On 6/4/2021 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Ah, they are used.  I wonder how much used...
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 11:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar panels
I haven't seen anything that will beat this.  $45/panel for 224watts.

https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/224w-60cell-silver-poly-solar-panel-by-sharp

On 6/4/21 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Who has the best deals for solar panels these days?




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Re: [AFMUG] solar panels

[Robert Andrews]

Yes, I just bought 6 of the 375 watt panels for less than 600 plus $240 
shipping, which is now a significant portion of the cost.


On 6/4/21 11:04 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
That is a good deal.  I found 17 cents in china, but this appears to be 
US based?

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 11:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] solar panels
I haven't seen anything that will beat this.  $45/panel for 224watts.

https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/224w-60cell-silver-poly-solar-panel-by-sharp

On 6/4/21 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Who has the best deals for solar panels these days?




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Re: [AFMUG] Backup Battery Recommendations

[Robert Andrews]

I called Signature solar about more of the 48v and they said 
specifically  _not_ discontinued..   Just seriously backordered.


On 05/10/2021 01:20 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
We bought some of the gyll rackmount 100ah for $1250 but they may have 
been discontinued, you can find the same exact batteries on alibaba 
however. Surely someone else is importing these types of batteries?


On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 1:15 PM Jason McKemie 
> wrote:


The Narada comes in a little over $1900, where are you seeing them
for that price?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:

They can be cheap but this listing I believe bill has mistook
1pc pricing for 4pc pricing, i.e. it's 4x what he said which is
inline with reality.

You can get rack mount lifepo4 100ah for about 1,500 or less so
it doesn't make since to make your own unless you can find
inexpensive cells like from battery hookup.

You need a bms and bussbars not much else.

On Mon, May 10, 2021, 11:46 AM Jason McKemie
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:

That's not bad at all, what would you use for battery
management on something like this though?

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 1:27 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I've been eyeing these LiFePo batteries for a while. I
have not gotten any, because, well, Alibaba. That said,
you can put together a 13KWH (48V @ 280AH) battery for
less than $400.

Maybe if several of us get together, we can get a gross
of them?


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/4pcs-3-2V-Lifepo4-batteries-prismatic_1600188945059.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist_catalog.normal_offer.d_title.4df13f37H9zsq9=p

bp


On 5/10/2021 11:04 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:

What have others had good luck with?

I just received a quote for a Narada Li-ion 100AH that
was a bit more expensive than I had hoped, so I may go
with something more conventional.

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Re: [AFMUG] Backup Battery Recommendations

[Robert Andrews]

Also if you are going this way be sure and watch Will Prowse and his 
review of some of these.   Buyer beware, all is not good on Alibaba...


On 05/10/2021 11:36 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

that seems suspiciously cheap


On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 1:27 PM Bill Prince > wrote:


I've been eyeing these LiFePo batteries for a while. I have not
gotten any, because, well, Alibaba. That said, you can put together
a 13KWH (48V @ 280AH) battery for less than $400.

Maybe if several of us get together, we can get a gross of them?


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/4pcs-3-2V-Lifepo4-batteries-prismatic_1600188945059.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist_catalog.normal_offer.d_title.4df13f37H9zsq9=p

bp


On 5/10/2021 11:04 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:

What have others had good luck with?

I just received a quote for a Narada Li-ion 100AH that was a bit
more expensive than I had hoped, so I may go with something more
conventional.

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Re: [AFMUG] Backup Battery Recommendations

[Robert Andrews]

Signature Solar has a 48V LFP battery box that is 100AH and is only 
$1500 with all the diagnostics you could want.   Low temp cutoff 
circuit, circuit breakers, state of charge LED's, you seriously cannot 
beat it right now on the market.  Unfortunately every shipment sells out 
immediately until they get caught up on demand.   Our off grid buildings 
are going to these exclusively unless someone comes up with a seriously 
better box.   They also slot into a 6x rack with lock for 30KW of 
battery with buss bars for connecting.  This really competes with Lead 
acid at this price.   What am I doing?   I shouldn't make more 
competition on the next shipment!!!


On 05/10/2021 11:32 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

4 cells are $485, you need 16 to make 48v? so $2000?

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:27 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


I've been eyeing these LiFePo batteries for a while. I have not
gotten any, because, well, Alibaba. That said, you can put together
a 13KWH (48V @ 280AH) battery for less than $400.

Maybe if several of us get together, we can get a gross of them?


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/4pcs-3-2V-Lifepo4-batteries-prismatic_1600188945059.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist_catalog.normal_offer.d_title.4df13f37H9zsq9=p

bp


On 5/10/2021 11:04 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:

What have others had good luck with?

I just received a quote for a Narada Li-ion 100AH that was a bit
more expensive than I had hoped, so I may go with something more
conventional.

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Re: [AFMUG] Backup Battery Recommendations

[Robert Andrews]

We are liking these for now...

https://shop.signaturesolar.us/products/12v-100ah-lifepo4-battery-by-eg4


On 05/10/2021 11:04 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:

What have others had good luck with?

I just received a quote for a Narada Li-ion 100AH that was a bit more 
expensive than I had hoped, so I may go with something more conventional.





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Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

[Robert Andrews]

Quicksand is a degraded form of rock...

On 05/08/2021 01:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I will not build anything upon the rock of UBNT.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Saturday, May 8, 2021 12:44 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

My bigger fear with Ubiquiti is that they'll abandon it.  They are not 
shy about leaving an old product behind.


On 5/8/2021 9:39 AM, Robert wrote:

Right up until ubnt kicks non-ubiquiti people off and sues them...

On 5/8/21 12:28 AM, Timothy Steele wrote:

sign up for stripe

Then setup UISP
you don't need to use any Ubiquiti devices to use a self-hosted UISP CRM
especially not if you don't want any of the fancy stuff it dose
really the best truly FREE option
if you want to pay then I would go with Sonar
if you want to pay a ton then powercode
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 11:23 AM Daniel White  wrote:

Visiting with a WISP that has way more than 20,000 subs last
week, I was a bit surprised to hear they used Billmax and are
very happy with it.  Billmax probably doesn't get enough
discussion in the community IMHO.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766


Forrest Christian (List Account)
May 6, 2021 at 16:14
I'd also consider Billmax if you're looking for billing only.   
It's less expensive because it doesn't have all of the bells and

whistles.


-- 
- Forrest



Chuck McCown via AF
May 6, 2021 at 15:40
Pretty sure we are gonna give it a go with plat.  Worked fine
for me years ago.

Sent from my iPhone


Jesse DuPont
May 6, 2021 at 15:01
We are current Plat customer (in one WISP, using Emerald in
another - they're both quite capable). In the Plat WISP, we're
billing 6400 subs using the free MSSQL license. No issues.
On 5/6/21 10:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:





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Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

[Robert Andrews]

Taking lessons from Google on that...

On 05/08/2021 11:44 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
My bigger fear with Ubiquiti is that they'll abandon it.  They are not 
shy about leaving an old product behind.



On 5/8/2021 9:39 AM, Robert wrote:

Right up until ubnt kicks non-ubiquiti people off and sues them...

On 5/8/21 12:28 AM, Timothy Steele wrote:

sign up for stripe

Then setup UISP

you don't need to use any Ubiquiti devices to use a self-hosted UISP CRM
especially not if you don't want any of the fancy stuff it dose

really the best truly FREE option

if you want to pay then I would go with Sonar

if you want to pay a ton then powercode



On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 11:23 AM Daniel White > wrote:


Visiting with a WISP that has way more than 20,000 subs last
week, I was a bit surprised to hear they used Billmax and are
very happy with it.  Billmax probably doesn't get enough
discussion in the community IMHO.

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766


Forrest Christian (List Account) 
May 6, 2021 at 16:14
I'd also consider Billmax if you're looking for billing only.   
It's less expensive because it doesn't have all of the bells and

whistles.



-- 
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Chuck McCown via AF 
May 6, 2021 at 15:40
Pretty sure we are gonna give it a go with plat.  Worked fine
for me years ago.

Sent from my iPhone



Jesse DuPont 
May 6, 2021 at 15:01
We are current Plat customer (in one WISP, using Emerald in
another - they're both quite capable). In the Plat WISP, we're
billing 6400 subs using the free MSSQL license. No issues.
On 5/6/21 10:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Why isn't the internet Free?

[Robert Andrews]

Oh I must have seen the wrong guy, I though you were next door to Zuck..

On 04/28/2021 01:13 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 4/28/21 12:56, Robert wrote:

I have pictures of you Seth, Lake Tahoe has a lot of cameras...



I admit it, I bought Ellison's house.



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Re: [AFMUG] CBRS question: "Interference Calculations Pending"

[Robert Andrews]

In the same way as using a captain crunch whistle is..  yes...

On 04/26/2021 09:00 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Is using a hidden engineering password really "hacking"?


On 4/26/2021 11:59 AM, Robert wrote:

"learned how to open up access to everything"   i.e. "Hacked"

On 4/26/21 8:33 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Yeah, just musing.  In a prior life I sniffed an RS-232 modem 
connection and learned how to open up access to everything in a 
central office digital switch.  I still remember the password 
"goldengate".  Calls to support went way way down after that.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 9:29 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CBRS question: "Interference Calculations Pending"

You mean communication between the device and the SAS?  All https I 
think.



On 4/26/2021 11:22 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Is the SAS channel in the clear or encrypted?
If it is in the clear, interesting "testers" could be developed.

I remember a "speed gun calibrator" kit featured in Popular 
Electronics back in the day.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 9:09 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] CBRS question: "Interference Calculations Pending"

Sometimes when adding an SM to the SAS I get a message back saying

"Grant Suspended: 501 Interference Calculations Pending."

Usually this clears in a few minutes, but sometimes it's hours. I have
one that cleared up at some point overnight, but somehow later became
unregistered on the following weekend.  So I restarted the grant 
process

on that one this morning and it's back to "Interference Calculations
Pending".

So is this interference calculation an automated step or a manual one?
Why do some locations not need it, why do some get past it quickly and
some don't?











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Re: [AFMUG] Osprey on towers

[Robert Andrews]

& hopefully not just the DNR gets to watch it!

On 04/06/2021 11:06 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Always nice to have giddy regulatory authorities than pissy ones.
*From:* Aeron Wireless
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 12:00 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Osprey on towers
Update: Just heard from the DNR. An egg-less nest is not protected. 
However, they encourage you not to remove the nest unless there are no 
other options. Once the nest is active (with egg or young birds) then 
there are restrictions on climbing. Restrictions are based on what stage 
the egg/birds are in. This stage may require permits as well - we didn't 
get into that. This DNR biologist wants a max disruption of 2 hours 
during the active nest stage. So she encourages spreading the work out 
over weeks with short periods on the tower.
So I will be climbing ASAP. During my work, I'll install a camera 
pointing at the nest so we know exactly what stage the nest is in. Plus 
a camera is a nice gesture to the DNR, one they are giddy about.
Once I got a hold of the DNR biologist, they were very helpful and 
accommodating.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 10:45 AM James Howard  wrote:

I was out chatting with the farmer at one of our tower sites on a
grain leg about a week ago and he told me that he had a pair of
Ospreys build a nest on the top of the leg last year.  He said he
called a friend of his at the DNR and talked to him about it.  The
DNR guy said that if there are no eggs he was fine to tear it down
but if there are eggs he needed to wait till they hatched and left
before tearing it down.  He had his nephew climb up and there was an
egg but the egg had a hole in it so they took pictures and sent to
the DNR.  The DNR said that the birds often puncture their own eggs
trying to move them around in the nest but since that was the only
egg in the nest he was fine to take the whole nest down.  He said he
threw it all off and put an orange cone up there which has kept them
off so far.   As mentioned earlier, there are federal and state
regulations so your mileage may vary depending on how your state (or
possibly even who you talk to at the state).



*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, April 2, 2021 10:51 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Osprey on towers





I wouldn't want it coming after me even if I were on the ground let
alone a ladder!  Most birds will defend their nest.  Get an outdoor
speaker, mount it as close as you can get it to the nest and play a
looped recording of a yapping chihuahua.  Birds don't stay around
where they can't listen and talk to each other, even anti-social
ones like raptors I think wouldn't like it.  These are a world-wide
species, why is it protected? 

On 4/2/21 7:15 AM, Aeron Wireless wrote:

I got a call from a local DNR volunteer informing me that
Ospreys are building a nest on my monopole platform. He's saying
that because it's a protected bird, I can't climb the tower
until they leave in the fall. I have an email into the state DNR
but no response yesterday and today being a gov holiday I don't
expect a response until next week. Kinda freaking out here. I
need to mount a few PTP links. I was planning on a climb today,
but am holding off to hear definitively. This is the main tower
for my WISP. 



Google kung-fu led me to a NATE presentation that says that
climbing can be done with precautions. Talked to the tower owner
(a small private owner, not one of the big three) who suggested
adding a ring below the platform with the nest for the new PTPs.
Can this be done with the birds on the tower?



Has anyone dealt with Ospreys before? 







*Total Control Panel*



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Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Robert Andrews]

The important part of that is that they are testing positive with minor 
symptoms, unless you have some hard reports of more severe cases?   But 
minor symptoms can still make you contagious to someone who isn't 
immunized or if both aren't masked.


On 04/05/2021 08:39 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Forrest - keep in mind there are lots of reports of folks getting 
immunizes and then contracting COVID weeks later.


I'm not sure how we finally get out of this.

On 4/5/21 11:36 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:
I am not going to the show this year. Texas politics and lax attitude 
towards a pandemic and other issues is a big concern.


On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:19 AM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


 >Is her daughter still involved with the organization?

Yes. https://www.wispa.org/wispa_staff.php

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

I keep refraining from making a joke at Trina’s expense.
I always got along with her just fine.  I thought she was a hoot.
But if I was to make a joke it might have gone something like
this: No way Wispapalooza will be a success unless they have
some broad walking the floor with a tumbler of whisky in her 
hand.

But that would be mean, so I will refrain...
Is her daughter still involved with the organization?
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
We're waiting until WISPAPALOOZA in the fall...
We had basically decided a while ago to not do any business
travel before June 1st, unless something major changed. So
we didn't make any plans.   Part of what we were waiting for was
for either cases to settle down a lot more than they are even
now, OR to be immunized to reduce my risk factors down to where
I was more comfortable in attending.
As it turns out, it probably would have been ok for us to go as
both Debbie and I will be fully immunized a couple of weeks
before the show.  But, unfortunately, as a vendor it's not
really possible to get everything together that quickly to
attend.Plus we have some internal projects in progress we
would have to put on hold which can't really be put on hold at
this point.   So we're going to have to miss this one.
Assuming everything continues trending in the right direction,
we'll be in vegas.   We also have a show in I think August that
we're planning on attending.
On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 12:50 PM dave  
wrote:


Im waiting for vegas show


On 3/31/21 1:07 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Definitely time to go to an actual show and I know I'll be
there.  Be nice to see people in person finally.
Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:26 PM Daniel White
 wrote:

Sam,

I'll be there.  I think turn-out will be pretty good
all things considering... but probably 2017-2018 type
attendance levels than what WISPA was projecting for
WISPAmerica 2020 before it was canceled.

WA historically has been the "engineering" show.
Deeper dives.  An "Animal Farm" track (vendors doing
their deep dives like the old and much cherished
Animal Farm shows).  Turn-out is always smaller
because there are less business/accounting/HR focused
tracks.

Obviously the circumstances could be better - but WA
has a very different feel than WISPAPALOOZA.  I love
both shows (and I'm not just saying that).

photograph
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766


Sam Lambie
March 30, 2021 at 14:00
Just wondering if during these unprecedented times if
there will be a crowd or a ghost town in Grapevine TX.
I've been to the LV WISPaPalooza shows a couple of
times, is this any more informative and better
organized or??
-- -- *Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 




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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti played fast and loose with the truth?

[Robert Andrews]

I guess I should have not just put in a link without commenting...

So:

Why am I surprised?

On 03/30/2021 11:15 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/03/whistleblower-ubiquiti-breach-catastrophic/ 





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[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Ubiquiti played fast and loose with the truth?

[Robert Andrews]

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/03/whistleblower-ubiquiti-breach-catastrophic/

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Re: [AFMUG] AF Digest, Vol 34, Issue 343

[Robert Andrews]

Quick, hide the guns!

On 03/30/2021 10:51 AM, Richard Harnish wrote:

I'm baack! 

Respectively,

Rick Harnish
Director of Development

855.NXT.LINK (855.698.5465)|260.307.4000 M

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of af-requ...@af.afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: AF Digest, Vol 34, Issue 343

Send AF mailing list submissions to
af@af.afmug.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of AF digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: 450M Limited (Jeff Broadwick - Lists)
2. Fw: AF subscription notification (Chuck McCown)
3. Re: Newest printer (Jaime Solorza)
4. OT: Another RUD for SN11 (Bill Prince)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:03:35 -0400
From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450M Limited
Message-ID: <0d936402-c840-4995-baf1-ca52e2bbd...@att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It is somewhat more expensive to buy the limited and then upgrade.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


On Mar 30, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

?
I'm getting 250 mbps per AP and they aren't even stumbling yet... Love Them!!!


On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:49 AM Roland Houin  wrote:
Things only get better.

  


roland

  


From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 11:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450M Limited

  


For those that have done sector to 450M swaps.  Are there any caveats to look 
out for?  Very close Sm's having issues, Far SM's not registering?

On 3/30/2021 10:41 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

It's just the MU MIMO.  And you get a 30 day trial that's literally just a 
click away (no reboot, no reassocoation, nothing).

  


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  

  


On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 11:18 AM Roland Houin  wrote:

The only limit is the mu-mimo..


Roland

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 11:04 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] 450M Limited

We're rebuilding a site that is difficult to work on, (very expensive
tower crew required, high RF).  There's a tower climb happening that
we don't have to pay for, so we're looking to upgrade our original
450 Sectors at the top of the tower so we can run the AP's with
Fiber.  We don't have the capacity need yet for a full 450M, so we
were thinking of putting up the 450M limited, and saving the $6k until capacity 
requires Mu-Mimo.

It is hard to find the difference between the 450M and the 450M
limited, but I think the only difference is the Mu-MIMO capability.
There's not a SM limit or throughput limit or anything like that is there?

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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:00:12 -0600
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: AF subscription notification
Message-ID: <1DEDE834CE6E4FBC9B41B46694A013A8@MCCOWNTECH.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Hello Rick...

-Original Message-
From: mailman-boun...@af.afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 10:58 AM
To: af-ow...@af.afmug.com
Subject: AF subscription notification

Rick Harnish  has been successfully subscribed to AF. 
(via admin approval)




--

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:43:02 -0600
From: Jaime Solorza 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Newest printer
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Yes.  We are funding out

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 9:49 AM Nate Burke  wrote:


Very Nice.  I think I have one model before that.  I have to take the
batteries out when not in use or else it drains them.

On 3/30/2021 10:39 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

The other one died...




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Another RUD for SN11

[Robert Andrews]

Someone wishes they had a helicopter flying above the crud out of the 
restricted area for this one, it would have been spectacular!


On 03/30/2021 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


Another RUD for SN11
https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/03/30/spacexs-latest-high-altitude-starship-test-flight-ends-in-apparent-explosion/


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Hold my beer 2

[Robert Andrews]

Word is they had two, which probably was the root cause...

On 03/29/2021 01:26 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
Since every ship transits the canal with a certified pilot on board, I 
want to know the story from the pilot. As soon as they assume 
responsibility on the bridge it’s their problem.


Thank you,

Brian Webster

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, March 29, 2021 3:19 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Hold my beer 2

You see, the root cause is that the canal is only 200 meters wide. If 
they had dredged it to 450 meters, that sucker could have done a little 
spin.


The other solution would be to only allow ships that are < 200 meters long.

bp



On 3/29/2021 11:59 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:







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Re: [AFMUG] OT Hold my beer

[Robert Andrews]

Russia actually did a lake with nukes.   It did not turn out good... 
Despite the project manager going for a swim in it...


On 03/29/2021 12:48 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
At one time they studied the idea of making an artificial harbor with 
underground nukes.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chariot



On 3/29/2021 3:45 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
i was looking t the US "backup connection" plan for the canal using a 
ton of nukes to build a second canal. That would have been cool


On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 2:26 PM Cameron Crum > wrote:


And they can't afford a backup connection if they are losing
"millions".

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 2:13 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

"I'm losing millions of dollars every minute I'm offline" 
Apparently all of our customers operate the suez.


On 3/29/2021 2:06 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

ive been watching this, it was a massive issue and it
didnt take them all that long to resolve it, its impressive.
can you imagine a 400 million dollar an hour pressure on your
team?

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 1:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Pilot says I’ll bet you cannot turn this thing around.
“Hold my beer”
says captain of container ship “ever given”.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Hold my beer

[Robert Andrews]

So there would be that for a solution...   The classic "Nuke it from 
orbit" meme...


On 03/29/2021 12:45 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
i was looking t the US "backup connection" plan for the canal using a 
ton of nukes to build a second canal. That would have been cool


On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 2:26 PM Cameron Crum > wrote:


And they can't afford a backup connection if they are losing "millions".

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 2:13 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

"I'm losing millions of dollars every minute I'm offline"
Apparently all of our customers operate the suez.

On 3/29/2021 2:06 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

ive been watching this, it was a massive issue and it
didnt take them all that long to resolve it, its impressive.
can you imagine a 400 million dollar an hour pressure on your
team?

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 1:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Pilot says I’ll bet you cannot turn this thing around.
“Hold my beer”
says captain of container ship “ever given”.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT well worth watching

[Robert Andrews]

He posts one "tube" a month and gets 5-9 million views in hours. ( I am 
subscribed and started to watch this within an hour of it posting and it 
was already over 2.5 million views )  He's making bank.


On 03/23/2021 11:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

Ya that guy has too much time on his hands 

**

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP 
Certified *


Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 



Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 23, 2021 11:46 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT well worth watching

https://grahamcluley.com/fighting-back-against-phone-scammers-with-glitter-bombs/





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Re: [AFMUG] VPN issues

[Robert Andrews]

I agree, this one needs to be billed for time to and from as well, and 
at least $100/hour...


On 03/22/2021 12:37 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

You charged a hefty service call for that I hope...

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 3:35 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> wrote:


UPDATE

I couldn't take the whining and crying about the VPN being down. 
Remote IT guys 100% sure it is my issue (must be blocking port

443).  Customer 100% I changed something. So, I gathered my testing
equipment and headed on out.  Well both IT guy and customer never
mentioned that the VPN appliance is connected to their router via a
100' CAT5e cable run on the floor across the house.  They did at
least have it tape down in places.  When I tried to connect my
notebook using the cable, I got no connection.  Pulled out the old
CAT5 tester and only 3 or of 8 lit up.  Replaced the cable and guess
what, VPN now working.


--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com 

--

Thursday, March 18, 2021, 1:37:08 PM, you wrote:


I'm working a very similar issue right now.  I think I have tracked
it down to an issue with a single upstream connection, and it looks
like it's doing something with fragmenting/dropping large packets. 
Doing a packet capture, it looks like the VPN setup packet is about

2062 bytes in size, and it's not getting to the other end.  ICMP
Packets will flow regardless of size (of course fragmenting)  If I
route the traffic over any of my other upstreams, it works fine.  I
have a ticket open with this upstream, but getting them to
understand what the issue is has been cumbersome.
On 3/18/2021 12:27 PM, Dev wrote:

Do you have other customers with similar config/topology where you
can test, maybe who hit the same VPN server? PCAP’s aside, VPN’s
don’t usually like NAT and firewall changes, but you have to divide
and conquer to track down VPN issues often because the error
reporting is vague at best typically.


On Mar 17, 2021, at 8:40 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies
mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] VPN issues
Bill,

Well that is the issue.  Could be anything.  Been working fine since
June.  I have many many more people using VPN's with no issues.

But there is an issue on her link.  This is a fiber link BTW.  Her
Internet works fine.

Her IT guys have washed their hands of it, pushing it all on me. 
Not sure how I'm going to figure it out being I don't know what

appliance she is using yet.  Even when I get that info, I'll have no
access to it.  Doubt they are going to give me admin privileges on
their equipment.  Also, I don't get the opportunity to see what
errors are showing up on server logs.




--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com 

--

Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:27:35 AM, you wrote:


I would suspect maybe segmentation issues. Sometimes segment
boundaries can mess with a VPN.

bp

On 3/17/2021 7:50 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:

I  have  a  customer  that  has  some type of VPN router device on our
system.   Her VPN isn't working anymore.  Her Internet is fine.  I did
a  packet  capture  for her IT guys and sent it to them.  Their answer
is  the  usual  "It's  your  ISPs fault".  I'm not a VPN expert, but I
attached the filtered packet dump.  Looks like things are talking back
and forth.  Any issues anyone can see?


--

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Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT salud

[Robert Andrews]

That's unamerican..

On 03/09/2021 05:01 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:





Sent from my iPhone




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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Star link travelling and results

[Robert Andrews]

I would say that list, was lifetime bragging rights, as evidenced by 
your post.


On 03/09/2021 02:23 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

One was a Gulfstream G500
One was a Boeing E-4 Advanced Airborne Command Post
One was a Boeing 737

There were many others too, but the one I quoted on but never got was a
Boeing 747-200 / VC-25A with a baby blue belly.  I could only deliver 48
telephone extensions, alas they needed more...  That one would have
conferred lifetime bragging rights...

I still got one on the head of state aircraft for Benjamin Netanyahu.
Did several heads of state, many corporate and some Hollywood folk and
Arabian Princes.
Wonder what they did with the Bill Cosby Gulfstream...

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

The vehicle was doing 500MPH?!?  What kind of vehicle was this exactly?

On 3/9/21 1:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I did airborne PBXs using a Rockwell Collins Inmarsat antenna that was 
mounted on a vehicle doing 500 mph.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

I think it was a joke that Musk had said the dish could be mounted just
like it is on a vehicle...

On 03/09/2021 05:02 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Is this a real question?

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> inc500 
<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> fb-logo 
<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> insta-logo 
<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> in-logo 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> tw-logo 
<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor> 
yt-logo <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of CBB - Jay Fuller 


*Date: *Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:14 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

How's the wind loading on that dish going to be at 500+ mph?

- Reply message -
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
To: 
Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 3:13 PM

My overly optimistic forehead brain tells me that Starlink will be so 
successful internationally for governments, military, industry, 
remote rural etc etc that they will max out their system in the first 
few years without even needing any domestic customers.  I am sure 
they will come out with a mobile package soon and Teslas will have it 
built in.


*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Monday, March 8, 2021 7:34 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

Nobody mourned the end of dialup or ISDN.  When the end of fixed 
wireless comes, nobody will mourn that either.  The world will move 
on and you'll have to adapt to it.


But I'll be a lot more worried about Starlink if they get allocated 
more spectrum.  2ghz sounds like a lot, but not that much compared to 
what they're trying to do.


On 3/7/2021 12:06 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Was Netflix the end of DVDs?

It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can offer
100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees), they
should be able to compete fine.

Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink won't
work - but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up to a few
thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM  wrote:

So this is the END of WISP?

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert 
wrote:

20 mile radius from registered address...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g_channel=NowYouKnow

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Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

[Robert Andrews]

If it depended upon that, it must have been ground speed as airspeed 
doesn't care about that.   Temp, yes, direction and speed, no...  But 
you're a pilot, you know that...  Must have been a trick answer...


On 03/09/2021 02:08 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Depends on wind speed and direction...

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:40 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

And was that air speed or ground speed?

On 03/09/2021 11:12 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

The vehicle was doing 500MPH?!?  What kind of vehicle was this exactly?

On 3/9/21 1:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I did airborne PBXs using a Rockwell Collins Inmarsat antenna that 
was mounted on a vehicle doing 500 mph.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

I think it was a joke that Musk had said the dish could be mounted just
like it is on a vehicle...

On 03/09/2021 05:02 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Is this a real question?

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> inc500 
<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> fb-logo 
<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> insta-logo 
<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> in-logo 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> tw-logo 
<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor> 
yt-logo <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of CBB - Jay Fuller 


*Date: *Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:14 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

How's the wind loading on that dish going to be at 500+ mph?

- Reply message -
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
To: 
Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 3:13 PM

My overly optimistic forehead brain tells me that Starlink will be 
so successful internationally for governments, military, industry, 
remote rural etc etc that they will max out their system in the 
first few years without even needing any domestic customers.  I am 
sure they will come out with a mobile package soon and Teslas will 
have it built in.


*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Monday, March 8, 2021 7:34 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

Nobody mourned the end of dialup or ISDN.  When the end of fixed 
wireless comes, nobody will mourn that either.  The world will move 
on and you'll have to adapt to it.


But I'll be a lot more worried about Starlink if they get allocated 
more spectrum.  2ghz sounds like a lot, but not that much compared 
to what they're trying to do.


On 3/7/2021 12:06 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Was Netflix the end of DVDs?

It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can offer
100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees), they
should be able to compete fine.

Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink won't
work - but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up to a 
few

thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM  wrote:

So this is the END of WISP?

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert 
wrote:

20 mile radius from registered address...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g_channel=NowYouKnow

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Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

[Robert Andrews]

And was that air speed or ground speed?

On 03/09/2021 11:12 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

The vehicle was doing 500MPH?!?  What kind of vehicle was this exactly?

On 3/9/21 1:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
I did airborne PBXs using a Rockwell Collins Inmarsat antenna that was 
mounted on a vehicle doing 500 mph.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:54 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

I think it was a joke that Musk had said the dish could be mounted just
like it is on a vehicle...

On 03/09/2021 05:02 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Is this a real question?

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> inc500 
<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> fb-logo 
<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/> insta-logo 
<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en> in-logo 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp> tw-logo 
<https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor> 
yt-logo <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of CBB - Jay Fuller 


*Date: *Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:14 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

How's the wind loading on that dish going to be at 500+ mph?

- Reply message -
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
To: 
Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 3:13 PM

My overly optimistic forehead brain tells me that Starlink will be so 
successful internationally for governments, military, industry, 
remote rural etc etc that they will max out their system in the first 
few years without even needing any domestic customers.  I am sure 
they will come out with a mobile package soon and Teslas will have it 
built in.


*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Monday, March 8, 2021 7:34 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

Nobody mourned the end of dialup or ISDN.  When the end of fixed 
wireless comes, nobody will mourn that either.  The world will move 
on and you'll have to adapt to it.


But I'll be a lot more worried about Starlink if they get allocated 
more spectrum.  2ghz sounds like a lot, but not that much compared to 
what they're trying to do.


On 3/7/2021 12:06 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Was Netflix the end of DVDs?

It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can offer
100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees), they
should be able to compete fine.

Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink won't
work - but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up to a few
thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM  wrote:

So this is the END of WISP?

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert 
wrote:

20 mile radius from registered address...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g_channel=NowYouKnow

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Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

[Robert Andrews]

I think it was a joke that Musk had said the dish could be mounted just 
like it is on a vehicle...


On 03/09/2021 05:02 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

Is this a real question?

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
aeronet-logo  	inc500 
 	fb-logo 
 	insta-logo 
 	in-logo 
 	tw-logo 
 
	yt-logo  	


www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of CBB - Jay Fuller 


*Date: *Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:14 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

How's the wind loading on that dish going to be at 500+ mph?

- Reply message -
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
To: 
Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
Subject: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 3:13 PM

My overly optimistic forehead brain tells me that Starlink will be so 
successful internationally for governments, military, industry, remote 
rural etc etc that they will max out their system in the first few years 
without even needing any domestic customers.  I am sure they will come 
out with a mobile package soon and Teslas will have it built in.


*From:*Adam Moffett

*Sent:*Monday, March 8, 2021 7:34 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results

Nobody mourned the end of dialup or ISDN.  When the end of fixed 
wireless comes, nobody will mourn that either.  The world will move on 
and you'll have to adapt to it.


But I'll be a lot more worried about Starlink if they get allocated more 
spectrum.  2ghz sounds like a lot, but not that much compared to what 
they're trying to do.


On 3/7/2021 12:06 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

Was Netflix the end of DVDs?

It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can offer
100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees), they
should be able to compete fine.

Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink won't
work - but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up to a few
thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM  wrote:

So this is the END of WISP?

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert 
wrote:

20 mile radius from registered address...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g_channel=NowYouKnow

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[AFMUG] Starship 10

[Robert Andrews]

Landed and sat there for a few minutes pouring out fuel/oxidizer and 
then went BOOM


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Re: [AFMUG] LNP issue - escalate to a higher power?

[Robert Andrews]

I soon as I saw Level 3, I said, there's your problem...

On 02/26/2021 08:46 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
We ported in a customer's Verizon landline number about 10 years ago. It 
went to an ATA in his house.  The customer primarily uses his cell phone 
and just lets the house phone go to an answering machine.  He realized 
at some point that his incoming calls stopped working.  We talked to 
VoIP Innovations and found out the number ported awayand this 
started a long chain of investigation.


Long story short: We've learned that TW Cable initiated a port in 
September 2019, then "released the number back to Verizon" in December 
2019.  So this hasn't worked for 17 months, the end user realized it 
about 6 months ago, and didn't bother to report it until a few days ago.


Weird thing is he's never had TW Cable, and cable isn't even available 
on his road.  He says he's made inquiries and that's it.  I asked if 
there was ever a scenario where they mistakenly thought he could get 
service and then changed their mindshe's adamant nothing like that 
ever happened.  He's never done more than ask about it, and they've 
never told him anything other than "no".


The underlying carrier (Level 3) told VoIP INnovations that they only 
keep porting paperwork for a few months, so they can't tell us who sent 
an LOA or anything else.  They only can see that TW Cable did the port, 
and that they "released it to Verizon" later.


It's obviously way too late for a snapback, and VZ will certainly reject 
a request to port in a number that's inactive. So if he really wants 
that number back he'll have to order a service from Verizon.


I'm disturbed on multiple levels:

* That a number can simply be taken without anybody's authorization or 
notification.


* That our LOA's can be rejected for the tiniest discrepancy, but TW 
Cable can apparently port numbers at will


* That nobody knows what happened

* That there's no recourse

Is there some higher authority I can go to for answers? Neustar?

It can't be all that important if he didn't even notice for >12 months, 
but I'm troubled this can even happen.






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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Robert Andrews]

I just realize too, someone probably probably shorted at $300 and is 
making bank.   Price has gone from over $400 to $232 and still 
falling...


On 01/28/2021 11:01 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
No.  nothing illegal about meeting on a street corner and saying "hey 
cool stock, here's the scoop, consider buying it".


On 1/28/21 1:45 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

So did these redditors break any law?

I assume it is them who will be targeted for enforcement

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 12:39 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Exactly the only one who makes out is the Shorter IF the stock 
goes

down.  If it goes up the shorter is massively in trouble.

now rinse and repeat this several times WITH THE SAME BLOCKS and you
have how we got to 140% shorted.

On 1/28/21 1:36 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 > i.e. Caleb wants to screw _both_ Nathan and Jason ( who both 
used to

 > have $10 blocks )   Shorting is like playing the No Pass side in
Craps..
 >
 > On 01/28/2021 10:23 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Here’s a quick examination of what’s going on.
 >>
 >>> On Jan 28, 2021, at 12:31 PM, David Coudron
 >>> mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
 >>>
 >>> 
 >>>
 >>> My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand
 >>> information.   This is the way I understand it.
 >>>
 >>> A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says
 >>> business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the
his fund
 >>> owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and
short
 >>> sold it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and
organized a
 >>> buy of a bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the
hedge
 >>> fund who had short sold it, had to buy back at high prices.   
Lost

 >>> $10 Billion last time she looked.   They stepped in to keep the
hedge
 >>> fund from collapsing.
 >>>
 >>> That is what I understand anyway.
 >>>
 >>> Regards,
 >>>
 >>> David Coudron
 >>>
 >>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
 >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
 >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
 >>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop
 >>>
 >>> Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of
dumb?
 >>>
 >>> If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price 
going

 >>> down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on
friday
 >>> the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated
price?
 >>> Is this the gist?
 >>>
 >>> Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds 
from

 >>> the shitposters?
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> AF mailing list
 >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
 >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >>
 >>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Robert Andrews]

My apologies to the list.   Those numbers were Millions not Billions. 
I can only plead old age and a failing memory...Or..  covid...


On 01/28/2021 11:01 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
No.  nothing illegal about meeting on a street corner and saying "hey 
cool stock, here's the scoop, consider buying it".


On 1/28/21 1:45 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

So did these redditors break any law?

I assume it is them who will be targeted for enforcement

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 12:39 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Exactly the only one who makes out is the Shorter IF the stock 
goes

down.  If it goes up the shorter is massively in trouble.

now rinse and repeat this several times WITH THE SAME BLOCKS and you
have how we got to 140% shorted.

On 1/28/21 1:36 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 > i.e. Caleb wants to screw _both_ Nathan and Jason ( who both 
used to

 > have $10 blocks )   Shorting is like playing the No Pass side in
Craps..
 >
 > On 01/28/2021 10:23 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> Here’s a quick examination of what’s going on.
 >>
 >>> On Jan 28, 2021, at 12:31 PM, David Coudron
 >>> mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
 >>>
 >>> 
 >>>
 >>> My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand
 >>> information.   This is the way I understand it.
 >>>
 >>> A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says
 >>> business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the
his fund
 >>> owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and
short
 >>> sold it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and
organized a
 >>> buy of a bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the
hedge
 >>> fund who had short sold it, had to buy back at high prices.   
Lost

 >>> $10 Billion last time she looked.   They stepped in to keep the
hedge
 >>> fund from collapsing.
 >>>
 >>> That is what I understand anyway.
 >>>
 >>> Regards,
 >>>
 >>> David Coudron
 >>>
 >>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
 >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
 >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
 >>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop
 >>>
 >>> Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of
dumb?
 >>>
 >>> If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price 
going

 >>> down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on
friday
 >>> the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated
price?
 >>> Is this the gist?
 >>>
 >>> Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds 
from

 >>> the shitposters?
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> AF mailing list
 >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
 >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >>
 >>
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Robert Andrews]

Thanks, now I understand the 140% position..   Hedge fund went to who 
they sold the blocks to and borrowed from _Them_...   Alice down the 
rabbit hole.I'm betting drugs were involved...


On 01/28/2021 10:38 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Exactly the only one who makes out is the Shorter IF the stock goes 
down.  If it goes up the shorter is massively in trouble.


now rinse and repeat this several times WITH THE SAME BLOCKS and you 
have how we got to 140% shorted.


On 1/28/21 1:36 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
i.e. Caleb wants to screw _both_ Nathan and Jason ( who both used to 
have $10 blocks )   Shorting is like playing the No Pass side in Craps..


On 01/28/2021 10:23 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:




Here’s a quick examination of what’s going on.

On Jan 28, 2021, at 12:31 PM, David Coudron 
 wrote:




My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand 
information.   This is the way I understand it.


A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says 
business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the his 
fund owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and 
short sold it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and 
organized a buy of a bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and 
now the hedge fund who had short sold it, had to buy back at high 
prices.   Lost $10 Billion last time she looked.   They stepped in 
to keep the hedge fund from collapsing.


That is what I understand anyway.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of dumb?

If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price going 
down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on friday 
the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated 
price? Is this the gist?


Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds from 
the shitposters?


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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

[Robert Andrews]

This...   That will be what the hedges use to drive legislation..

On 01/28/2021 10:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
The ones who will really get hurt are the pension funds that had 
stake(s) in the hedge funds.



bp


On 1/28/2021 10:25 AM, David Coudron wrote:
That expresses our sentiment as well.   We have been watching this 
with amusement.





David Coudron


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

Man I love this.

Dumbass greedy hedge fund A holes that literally think they drive the 
markets (and do usually), get massively screwed by the populace that's 
had enough of their controlling behavior.


It's a free market, and they bet big and lost. That's how it works.

I can only hope that the gov doesn't somehow bail them out.
I'm not a socialist and not a democrat and not a Bernie etc etc, but I 
do believe funds like this have too much control and also hoard a lot 
of the nations wealth among a handful of privileged people.





-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:13 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

About right & add a couple of numbers.   Stock was at $20, hedge funds
were trying to drive it to $10 by throwing shade.   Shorts have to be
covered at certain risk points.   Reddit'ers in a market bet group saw
that the hedges had shorted it by ( get this ) 130% of released stock!!!
   ( how they can borrow more than 100% is apparently allowed in futures
(bad))..   Redditors drove it to $147/share and the hedge funds and one
in particular were $137 BILLION in the red.   The one that was going BK
borrowed $76 Billion to cover from another hedge and briefly sent it 
back down _for a couple of hours_ till the redditors dug in again. (

they know that the short _has_ to be covered.   Then it got serious.
Musk and some other really rich people who have been burned by hedge 
funds doing this to them ( Telsa stock had been depressed for years by 
this ) decided that it was time for the chicken to come home to roost.

They decided to throw $$ at it that they don't really worry about.
What's 10 million to Musk?   Today I saw it trading briefly at $390.
Wall Street is rallying behind the hedges and calling in all the favors
due.  PR, Congress, investors like public retirements, etc.   They are
going to push for legislation.  Truly a screw you between two groups.

I'm warming up the popcorn...

Best comment I've seen from the Hedge fund CEO.   I've lost my company,
my house, my cars, my boat, my wife, how could you do this for "fun"

Responses were hilarious...   Like, "Didn't you put any away for a rainy
day?"



On 01/28/2021 09:31 AM, David Coudron wrote:

My wife has been following this, so I am relating second hand
information.   This is the way I understand it.

A hedge fund guy has been bashing game stop for some time.  Says
business is outdated.   Terrible stock, etc.   Turns out the his fund
owned a bunch of it and had been betting on it going down and short sold
it.   Gamers got pissed about bashing game stop and organized a buy of a
bunch of stock.   Stock price went way up, and now the hedge fund who
had short sold it, had to buy back at high prices.   Lost $10 Billion
last time she looked.   They stepped in to keep the hedge fund from
collapsing.

That is what I understand anyway.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, January 28, 2021 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: gamestop

Can someone break this down for me to a window licker level of dumb?

If i understand it, hedgefund operators banked on the price going
down, so shit posters rallied together to drive it up, and on friday
the hedgefund operators are forced to purchase at the inflated price?
Is this the gist?

Now government is trying to step in to protect the hedgefunds from the
shitposters?




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