Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-08 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
Because you do it the same way (I hope) that you do with your upstream 
bandwidth provider - if one carrier sucks on a given day you send the traffic 
over your other providers.   When Bandwidth.com  is 
having a bad day (and that’s pretty damn rare) we send it to Vitality, or 
SipRoutes or whatever carrier doesn’t have a problem that day.

As far as the customer is concerned they reported a problem and we fixed it.   
The customer didn’t have to wait while you opened a ticket with your provider, 
or told them to call the third party provider to fix it.

One of the biggest trouble spots is toll free numbers.   The financial 
incentives on those are to the cheapest possible rate and the carriers 
aggressively shop rates on those with the end result that call completion times 
and call quality are often poor and lead to complaints.   Being able to steer 
those calls properly for the customers that are sensitive to it is important to 
customer satisfaction.

Mark


> On Apr 7, 2019, at 8:34 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Why would using a third party termination provider cause me to get blamed any 
> more or less?
> 
> If I'm doing my own termination I'm going to be blamed for every call that 
> gets dropped.
> 
> This is why I've never done VoIP... in a previous life I did... and we got 
> blamed for every call that got dropped, every echo, etc.
> 
> On 4/7/19 7:31 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>> No way I would consider selling managed or hosted PBX service without also 
>> selling the origination/termination.   You ARE going to get blamed for every 
>> call that gets dropped or distorted.   You *have* to have control over that 
>> if you want to succeed.It took us a long time to get comfortable even 
>> thinking about selling services off-network.  You really don’t want to do 
>> that until you have all the skills in place to be able to support and 
>> troubleshoot both on and off network.
>> Mark
>>> On Apr 6, 2019, at 10:49 PM, Lewis Bergman >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the 
>>> origination and termination. I don't think you could compete in the space 
>>> without offering it.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would
>>>rather provider their own origination and termination.  For the
>>>most part, our bulk pricing though beats what an individual ISP
>>>can purchase.
>>> 
>>>As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN,
>>>there isn't any regulatory burden.
>>> 
>>>   
>>>Daniel White
>>>Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
>>>direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>>>Facebook icon  LinkedIn icon
>>> Youtbue icon
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:
Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination
providers who would bill them directly.
 
On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake >>>> wrote:
 
>You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and
>termination.
> 
>The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from
>another SIP provider while you just handle the PBX setup and
>maintenance whilst getting a commission from the sip trunk
>provider perhaps... It really depends what you want to do.
>
> 
> 
>>On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof >> wrote:
>> 
>>I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without
>>origination and termination, seems like it would be part of the
>>package.
>> 
>>If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via
>>the service you sell them, I believe that makes you an
>>interconnected VoIP provider.
>> 
>>-Original Message-
>>From: AF >> On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>>Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
>>To: af@af.afmug.com 
>>Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line
>> 
>>Is there any difference?
>> 
>>I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a
>>bunch of other things.
>> 
>>If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business
>>customer does that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if
>>they don’t have their own termination provider and you’re doing
>>the termination for them?
>>-- AF mailing list
>>AF@af.afmug.com 
>>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-07 Thread Daniel White 

Matt,

You can't fix what you don't control.  If you provide the minutes, you 
can move them if there is issues or route certain calls thru another 
provider.


Or go with a white-label provider - yes you still have to do some 
regulatory work but at least you have someone else to work with if there 
are issues. Regulatory work you can punt as I wrote before to a few 
companies that specialize in doing that.


I guess I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish...


Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
Facebook icon  LinkedIn icon 
 Youtbue icon 




Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/7/19 18:34:
Why would using a third party termination provider cause me to get 
blamed any more or less?


If I'm doing my own termination I'm going to be blamed for every call 
that gets dropped.


This is why I've never done VoIP... in a previous life I did... and we 
got blamed for every call that got dropped, every echo, etc.


On 4/7/19 7:31 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
No way I would consider selling managed or hosted PBX service without 
also selling the origination/termination.   You ARE going to get 
blamed for every call that gets dropped or distorted.   You *have* to 
have control over that if you want to succeed.    It took us a long 
time to get comfortable even thinking about selling services 
off-network.  You really don’t want to do that until you have all the 
skills in place to be able to support and troubleshoot both on and 
off network.


Mark

On Apr 6, 2019, at 10:49 PM, Lewis Bergman > wrote:


Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the 
origination and termination. I don't think you could compete in the 
space without offering it.


On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White > wrote:


    Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would
    rather provider their own origination and termination.  For the
    most part, our bulk pricing though beats what an individual ISP
    can purchase.

    As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN,
    there isn't any regulatory burden.

    
    Daniel White
    Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
    direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
    Facebook icon  LinkedIn icon
     Youtbue icon
    


    Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:

    Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination
    providers who would bill them directly.

    On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake mailto:dth...@vanilla.net.mt>> wrote:


    You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and
    termination.

    The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from
    another SIP provider while you just handle the PBX setup and
    maintenance whilst getting a commission from the sip trunk
    provider perhaps... It really depends what you want to do.
    



    On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

    I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without
    origination and termination, seems like it would be part of the
    package.

    If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via
    the service you sell them, I believe that makes you an
    interconnected VoIP provider.

    -Original Message-
    From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
    Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
    To: af@af.afmug.com 
    Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

    Is there any difference?

    I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a
    bunch of other things.

    If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business
    customer does that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if
    they don’t have their own termination provider and you’re doing
    the termination for them?
    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com 
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com 
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



    All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The
    privacy policies may be viewed here:

    https://www.vanilla.net.mt/privacy/
    https://www.maltashopper.com/PrivacyPolicy
    --     AF mailing list
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    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com 
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
--
AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-07 Thread Lewis Bergman 
Aren't you already getting blame for everything? If not, things have
changed for the better.

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019, 7:35 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Why would using a third party termination provider cause me to get
> blamed any more or less?
>
> If I'm doing my own termination I'm going to be blamed for every call
> that gets dropped.
>
> This is why I've never done VoIP... in a previous life I did... and we
> got blamed for every call that got dropped, every echo, etc.
>
> On 4/7/19 7:31 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
> > No way I would consider selling managed or hosted PBX service without
> > also selling the origination/termination.   You ARE going to get blamed
> > for every call that gets dropped or distorted.   You *have* to have
> > control over that if you want to succeed.It took us a long time to
> > get comfortable even thinking about selling services off-network.  You
> > really don’t want to do that until you have all the skills in place to
> > be able to support and troubleshoot both on and off network.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >> On Apr 6, 2019, at 10:49 PM, Lewis Bergman  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the
> >> origination and termination. I don't think you could compete in the
> >> space without offering it.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would
> >> rather provider their own origination and termination.  For the
> >> most part, our bulk pricing though beats what an individual ISP
> >> can purchase.
> >>
> >> As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN,
> >> there isn't any regulatory burden.
> >>
> >> 
> >> Daniel White
> >> Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
> >> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> >> Facebook icon  LinkedIn icon
> >>  Youtbue icon
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >> Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:
> >>> Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination
> >>> providers who would bill them directly.
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
>  You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and
>  termination.
> 
>  The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from
>  another SIP provider while you just handle the PBX setup and
>  maintenance whilst getting a commission from the sip trunk
>  provider perhaps... It really depends what you want to do.
>  
> 
> 
> > On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof  > > wrote:
> >
> > I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without
> > origination and termination, seems like it would be part of the
> > package.
> >
> > If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via
> > the service you sell them, I believe that makes you an
> > interconnected VoIP provider.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  > > On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> > Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line
> >
> > Is there any difference?
> >
> > I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a
> > bunch of other things.
> >
> > If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business
> > customer does that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if
> > they don’t have their own termination provider and you’re doing
> > the termination for them?
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
>  All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The
>  privacy policies may be viewed here:
> 
>  https://www.vanilla.net.mt/privacy/
>  https://www.maltashopper.com/PrivacyPolicy
>  --
>  AF mailing list
>  AF@af.afmug.com 
>  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com 
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lewis Bergman
> >>

Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-07 Thread Matt Hoppes 
Why would using a third party termination provider cause me to get 
blamed any more or less?


If I'm doing my own termination I'm going to be blamed for every call 
that gets dropped.


This is why I've never done VoIP... in a previous life I did... and we 
got blamed for every call that got dropped, every echo, etc.


On 4/7/19 7:31 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
No way I would consider selling managed or hosted PBX service without 
also selling the origination/termination.   You ARE going to get blamed 
for every call that gets dropped or distorted.   You *have* to have 
control over that if you want to succeed.    It took us a long time to 
get comfortable even thinking about selling services off-network.  You 
really don’t want to do that until you have all the skills in place to 
be able to support and troubleshoot both on and off network.


Mark

On Apr 6, 2019, at 10:49 PM, Lewis Bergman > wrote:


Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the 
origination and termination. I don't think you could compete in the 
space without offering it.


On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White > wrote:


Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would
rather provider their own origination and termination.  For the
most part, our bulk pricing though beats what an individual ISP
can purchase.

As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN,
there isn't any regulatory burden.


Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
Facebook icon  LinkedIn icon
 Youtbue icon



Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:

Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination
providers who would bill them directly.

On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake mailto:dth...@vanilla.net.mt>> wrote:


You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and
termination.

The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from
another SIP provider while you just handle the PBX setup and
maintenance whilst getting a commission from the sip trunk
provider perhaps... It really depends what you want to do.




On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without
origination and termination, seems like it would be part of the
package.

If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via
the service you sell them, I believe that makes you an
interconnected VoIP provider.

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

Is there any difference?

I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a
bunch of other things.

If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business
customer does that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if
they don’t have their own termination provider and you’re doing
the termination for them?
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The
privacy policies may be viewed here:

https://www.vanilla.net.mt/privacy/
https://www.maltashopper.com/PrivacyPolicy
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
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--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-07 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
No way I would consider selling managed or hosted PBX service without also 
selling the origination/termination.   You ARE going to get blamed for every 
call that gets dropped or distorted.   You *have* to have control over that if 
you want to succeed.It took us a long time to get comfortable even thinking 
about selling services off-network.  You really don’t want to do that until you 
have all the skills in place to be able to support and troubleshoot both on and 
off network.

Mark

> On Apr 6, 2019, at 10:49 PM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the 
> origination and termination. I don't think you could compete in the space 
> without offering it.
> 
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White  > wrote:
> Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would rather 
> provider their own origination and termination.  For the most part, our bulk 
> pricing though beats what an individual ISP can purchase.
> 
> As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN, there isn't any 
> regulatory burden.
> 
>     
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>     
> 
>   
> 
> Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:
>> Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination providers who 
>> would bill them directly. 
>> 
>> On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake > > wrote:
>> 
>>> You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and termination.
>>> 
>>> The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from another SIP 
>>> provider while you just handle the PBX setup and maintenance whilst getting 
>>> a commission from the sip trunk provider perhaps... It really depends what 
>>> you want to do.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof >>> > wrote:
 
 I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without 
 origination and termination, seems like it would be part of the package.
 
 If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via the service 
 you sell them, I believe that makes you an interconnected VoIP provider.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
 Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
 Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
 To: af@af.afmug.com 
 Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line
 
 Is there any difference?
 
 I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a bunch of 
 other things. 
 
 If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business customer does 
 that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if they don’t have their own 
 termination provider and you’re doing the termination for them?
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com 
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com 
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The privacy 
>>> policies may be viewed here:
>>> 
>>> https://www.vanilla.net.mt/privacy/ 
>>> https://www.maltashopper.com/PrivacyPolicy 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-07 Thread Ken Hohhof 
One caution, pre and post sales support (when selling to business customers) 
can kill your margins if you don’t quote it properly.  There’s also the 
question of whether you want to lease phones to the customer, or have them buy 
their own.

 

A small business may want all sorts of live demos before the sale, then post 
sale there will be a bunch of configuration, training, and adjustments for the 
first couple months, then a lower level of ongoing maintenance.  It is totally 
fair to quote a system with a certain amount of configuration and training, 
either onsite or at your facility, and then an option for either per hour labor 
for maintenance after that, or a maintenance plan that guarantees a certain 
number of hours per month.  Some customers will just need an initial config and 
a few hours of training, others will be very needy.  If you just do all this 
for free, it can suck up all your profits.

 

As far as phones, there are pros and cons to both methods.  If the customer 
buys the phones and you don’t require them to use a certain source, they may 
get phones off eBay or Amazon and they are refurbs or have old firmware or are 
inappropriate models.  Also of course if the customer buys the phones, and some 
of them fail, it’s their cost.  If you lease the phones, and the customer 
cancels, you may have a bunch of used phones to refurb and lease to another 
customer or sell on eBay.  Similar situation if the customer decides to upgrade 
all their leased phones to a fancier model.  Like most leased hardware, you 
probably want to recover your cost in a year, even though the customer may 
consider this a ripoff.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2019 8:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

 

I agree, I'd never sell it that way to an end user.  An MSP or ISP that just 
wants to stop managing their switch (a switch and a PBX are not the same thing) 
perhaps... but I've not run into a provider yet that asked me that question 
where I wasn't more competitive then their rates anyways.


The bigger issue will be the finger pointing game for an end user when it 
doesn't work.  "My phones don't work"... "looks like it is your carrier"... 
"they say it's you"...

Just like bandwidth, you should be buying from multiple carriers to increase 
your chances of number portability or getting numbers in harder to get rate 
centers while giving you failover should a carrier have an outage (and it 
happens... ThinQ had a major outage in February).

Matt doing the paperwork isn't that hard.  Use Inteserra or Compliance 
Solutions to do it all for you and you will still make 50%+ margins.


 <https://atheral.com/> 


Daniel White


Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations


direct: +1 (702) 470-2766


 <https://www.facebook.com/getatheral>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/atheral/> 
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpPZv-EsGCj8LXfzylwCrjQ>   


Ken Hohhof wrote on 4/7/19 06:54:



Back in the days of the analog phone system screwed to the wall in the phone 
closet, many small businesses had a “phone guy” they paid regularly to do all 
their employee moves/adds/changes, configure IVR trees and voicemail, set up 
MOH, train employees, do software upgrades, and fix the hardware when it broke. 
 This cost a lot and I assume was a lucrative business.  But the whole idea of 
cloud PBX is to get away from the hassle and expense of having the phone guy 
come out on a monthly basis.  So in 2019 not 1999, I think Lewis is probably 
right.  Of course there are probably a few customers who want the latest 
technology and still want to pay big bucks to somebody to babysit it for them.  
Maybe the same people who buy the extended warranty at Best Buy, or who pay the 
phone company for inside wiring maintenance.

 

 

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

 

Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the origination 
and termination. I don't think you could compete in the space without offering 
it.

 

On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White mailto:dwh...@atheral.com> > wrote:

Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would rather provider 
their own origination and termination.  For the most part, our bulk pricing 
though beats what an individual ISP can purchase.

As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN, there isn't any 
regulatory burden.

 


 <https://atheral.com/> 


Daniel White


Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations


direct: +1 (702) 470-2766


 <https://www.facebook.com/getatheral>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/atheral/> 
<https://www

Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-07 Thread Daniel White 
I agree, I'd never sell it that way to an end user.  An MSP or ISP that 
just wants to stop managing their switch (a switch and a PBX are not the 
same thing) perhaps... but I've not run into a provider yet that asked 
me that question where I wasn't more competitive then their rates anyways.


The bigger issue will be the finger pointing game for an end user when 
it doesn't work.  "My phones don't work"... "looks like it is your 
carrier"... "they say it's you"...


Just like bandwidth, you should be buying from multiple carriers to 
increase your chances of number portability or getting numbers in harder 
to get rate centers while giving you failover should a carrier have an 
outage (and it happens... ThinQ had a major outage in February).


Matt doing the paperwork isn't that hard.  Use Inteserra or Compliance 
Solutions to do it all for you and you will still make 50%+ margins.


<https://atheral.com/>
Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
Facebook icon <https://www.facebook.com/getatheral> LinkedIn icon 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/atheral/> Youtbue icon 
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Ken Hohhof wrote on 4/7/19 06:54:


Back in the days of the analog phone system screwed to the wall in the 
phone closet, many small businesses had a “phone guy” they paid 
regularly to do all their employee moves/adds/changes, configure IVR 
trees and voicemail, set up MOH, train employees, do software 
upgrades, and fix the hardware when it broke.  This cost a lot and I 
assume was a lucrative business.  But the whole idea of cloud PBX is 
to get away from the hassle and expense of having the phone guy come 
out on a monthly basis.  So in 2019 not 1999, I think Lewis is 
probably right.  Of course there are probably a few customers who want 
the latest technology and still want to pay big bucks to somebody to 
babysit it for them.  Maybe the same people who buy the extended 
warranty at Best Buy, or who pay the phone company for inside wiring 
maintenance.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, April 6, 2019 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the 
origination and termination. I don't think you could compete in the 
space without offering it.


On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White <mailto:dwh...@atheral.com>> wrote:


Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would
rather provider their own origination and termination.  For the
most part, our bulk pricing though beats what an individual ISP
can purchase.

As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN,
there isn't any regulatory burden.

<https://atheral.com/>



*Daniel White***

Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations

direct: +1 (702) 470-2766

Facebook icon <https://www.facebook.com/getatheral> LinkedIn icon
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/atheral/> Youtbue icon
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpPZv-EsGCj8LXfzylwCrjQ>


Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:

Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination
providers who would bill them directly.


On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake mailto:dth...@vanilla.net.mt>> wrote:

You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and
termination.

The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from
another SIP provider while you just handle the PBX setup
and maintenance whilst getting a commission from the sip
trunk provider perhaps... It really depends what you want
to do.






On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud
PBX without origination and termination, seems like it
would be part of the package.

If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the
PSTN via the service you sell them, I believe that
makes you an interconnected VoIP provider.

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

Is there any difference?

I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file
499s and a bunch of other things.

If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a
business customer does that sti

Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-07 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Back in the days of the analog phone system screwed to the wall in the phone 
closet, many small businesses had a “phone guy” they paid regularly to do all 
their employee moves/adds/changes, configure IVR trees and voicemail, set up 
MOH, train employees, do software upgrades, and fix the hardware when it broke. 
 This cost a lot and I assume was a lucrative business.  But the whole idea of 
cloud PBX is to get away from the hassle and expense of having the phone guy 
come out on a monthly basis.  So in 2019 not 1999, I think Lewis is probably 
right.  Of course there are probably a few customers who want the latest 
technology and still want to pay big bucks to somebody to babysit it for them.  
Maybe the same people who buy the extended warranty at Best Buy, or who pay the 
phone company for inside wiring maintenance.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

 

Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the origination 
and termination. I don't think you could compete in the space without offering 
it.

 

On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White mailto:dwh...@atheral.com> > wrote:

Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would rather provider 
their own origination and termination.  For the most part, our bulk pricing 
though beats what an individual ISP can purchase.

As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN, there isn't any 
regulatory burden.

 


 <https://atheral.com/> 


Daniel White


Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations


direct: +1 (702) 470-2766


 <https://www.facebook.com/getatheral>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/atheral/> 
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpPZv-EsGCj8LXfzylwCrjQ>   


Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:



Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination providers who would 
bill them directly. 


On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake mailto:dth...@vanilla.net.mt> > wrote:

You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and termination.

 

The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from another SIP provider 
while you just handle the PBX setup and maintenance whilst getting a commission 
from the sip trunk provider perhaps... It really depends what you want to do.








On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > 
wrote:

I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without origination and 
termination, seems like it would be part of the package.

If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via the service you 
sell them, I believe that makes you an interconnected VoIP provider.

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

Is there any difference?

I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a bunch of other 
things. 

If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business customer does that 
still make you a voip provider?  Or only if they don’t have their own 
termination provider and you’re doing the termination for them?
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All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The privacy policies 
may be viewed here:

 

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-- 

Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-06 Thread Lewis Bergman 
Why would you is the question. The majority of the money is in the
origination and termination. I don't think you could compete in the space
without offering it.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 9:31 PM Daniel White  wrote:

> Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would rather
> provider their own origination and termination.  For the most part, our
> bulk pricing though beats what an individual ISP can purchase.
>
> As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN, there isn't
> any regulatory burden.
>
> 
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> [image: Facebook icon]   [image:
> LinkedIn icon]    [image:
> Youtbue icon] 
>
> Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:
>
> Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination providers who
> would bill them directly.
>
> On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake  wrote:
>
> You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and termination.
>
> The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from another SIP
> provider while you just handle the PBX setup and maintenance whilst getting
> a commission from the sip trunk provider perhaps... It really depends what
> you want to do.
> 
>
>
> On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without
> origination and termination, seems like it would be part of the package.
>
> If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via the service
> you sell them, I believe that makes you an interconnected VoIP provider.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line
>
> Is there any difference?
>
> I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a bunch of
> other things.
>
> If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business customer does
> that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if they don’t have their own
> termination provider and you’re doing the termination for them?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The privacy
> policies may be viewed here:
>
> https://www.vanilla.net.mt/privacy/
> https://www.maltashopper.com/PrivacyPolicy
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-06 Thread Daniel White 
Yes you can do it and we do offer that to some ISP's that would rather 
provider their own origination and termination.  For the most part, our 
bulk pricing though beats what an individual ISP can purchase.


As long as you do not provide an interconnection to the PSTN, there 
isn't any regulatory burden.



Daniel White
Co-Founder - Business Development & Operations
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
Facebook icon  LinkedIn icon 
 Youtbue icon 




Matt Hoppes wrote on 4/6/19 12:53:
Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination providers 
who would bill them directly.


On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake > wrote:



You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and termination.

The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from another SIP 
provider while you just handle the PBX setup and maintenance whilst 
getting a commission from the sip trunk provider perhaps... It really 
depends what you want to do.




On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without 
origination and termination, seems like it would be part of the package.


If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via the 
service you sell them, I believe that makes you an interconnected 
VoIP provider.


-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes

Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

Is there any difference?

I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a 
bunch of other things.


If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business customer 
does that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if they don’t 
have their own termination provider and you’re doing the termination 
for them?

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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The 
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Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-06 Thread Matt Hoppes 
Exactly my thought. You’d connect them to the termination providers who would 
bill them directly. 

> On Apr 6, 2019, at 14:28, David Thake  wrote:
> 
> You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and termination.
> 
> The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from another SIP 
> provider while you just handle the PBX setup and maintenance whilst getting a 
> commission from the sip trunk provider perhaps... It really depends what you 
> want to do.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without origination 
>> and termination, seems like it would be part of the package.
>> 
>> If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via the service 
>> you sell them, I believe that makes you an interconnected VoIP provider.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line
>> 
>> Is there any difference?
>> 
>> I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a bunch of 
>> other things. 
>> 
>> If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business customer does 
>> that still make you a voip provider?  Or only if they don’t have their own 
>> termination provider and you’re doing the termination for them?
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> All email communication  is subject to our privacy policy. The privacy 
> policies may be viewed here:
> 
> https://www.vanilla.net.mt/privacy/
> https://www.maltashopper.com/PrivacyPolicy
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Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-06 Thread David Thake 
You can certainly sell Cloud PBX without origination and termination.

The sip trunk and DID could be sourced by the client from another SIP provider 
while you just handle the PBX setup and maintenance whilst getting a commission 
from the sip trunk provider perhaps... It really depends what you want to do.


> On 6 Apr 2019, at 20:25, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without origination 
> and termination, seems like it would be part of the package.
> 
> If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via the service 
> you sell them, I believe that makes you an interconnected VoIP provider.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line
> 
> Is there any difference?
> 
> I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a bunch of 
> other things. 
> 
> If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business customer does that 
> still make you a voip provider?  Or only if they don’t have their own 
> termination provider and you’re doing the termination for them?
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

2019-04-06 Thread Ken Hohhof 
I don't understand how you would sell managed cloud PBX without origination and 
termination, seems like it would be part of the package.

If you bill them, and they can make calls to/from the PSTN via the service you 
sell them, I believe that makes you an interconnected VoIP provider.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Selling managed PBX vs phone line

Is there any difference?

I know if you sell voip phone lines you have to file 499s and a bunch of other 
things. 

If you’re selling a managed PBX in the cloud to a business customer does that 
still make you a voip provider?  Or only if they don’t have their own 
termination provider and you’re doing the termination for them?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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