Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight
Or he may have saved future planes from crashing. He did try to warn them and nobody seemed to listen. Based on my experience with management and the fact the FBI thinks he flew the plane sideways, I believe he could do it. Rory From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 7:43 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight But when the FMS sends a command to an aileron, I will be gobsmacked to discover that commend involved ethernet in any way. There is triple redundancy on the fly by wire systems. However, if there is some kind of ethernet port on the FMS that could be used to take over FMS in some kind of diagnostic mode, I could believe that might be able to be used. I am thinking this hacker is wanting 15 minutes of fame. He may get 15 years of s**t storm instead. From: Josh Luthmanmailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:38 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight IIRC on Boeing the info network and flight control stuff is separated by nothing more than a VLAN. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.commailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I am going to totally dis-believe that anyone can issue flight control commands over an ethernet network accessible by an under the passenger seat box of electronics. First, I doubt that critical flight hardware speaks garden variety ethernet. Second, I have to believe there is an air gap between infotainment and critical networks. But I didn't believe Lance Armstrong could have ever been guilty of doping either. -Original Message- From: WaveDirect Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:26 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight Yeah ... makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking by allowing the wifi network be on the same network as the flight controls. This is a possible Cylon situation. - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.net To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 5:21:38 PM Subject: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/ Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO 4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040 602-426-0542tel:602-426-0542 r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.net www.triadwireless.nethttp://www.triadwireless.nethttp://www.triadwireless.net/ That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P.C. Hodgell
[AFMUG] visual ospf mapping
Does the dude have any method to indicate OSPF paths visually? We are far from implentation, so its no priority, Im just curious how best to monitor such things. I havent messed with the dud much before, always had problems. But installed it the other day and had it scan the office network. how long has it been mapping physical ports? I thought that was like a buttered bee. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over.
A little spoiler for you. People who didn't watch it still won't be spoiled.. Twas a brilliant ending. From: Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 11:39:29 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over. Not much of a reason to live now... Oh, wait, Halt and Catch Fire is starting up in a couple of weeks.
Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over.
Keep looking for the FEAR the WALKING DEAD season to start On 05/17/2015 10:39 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Not much of a reason to live now... Oh, wait, Halt and Catch Fire is starting up in a couple of weeks.
Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight
Yeah ... makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking by allowing the wifi network be on the same network as the flight controls. This is a possible Cylon situation. - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway r...@triadwireless.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 5:21:38 PM Subject: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/ Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO 4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040 602-426-0542 r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.net www.triadwireless.nethttp://www.triadwireless.net/ That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P.C. Hodgell
Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over.
I only caught 2 episodes of Halt.. (pardon the pun). Was it any good overall? It seemed ok but nothing interesting other than the bitchy blonde chick trying to do her own thing. I didn't bother following it. - Original Message - From: David dmilho...@wletc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:50:53 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over. Keep looking for the FEAR the WALKING DEAD season to start On 05/17/2015 10:39 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Not much of a reason to live now... Oh, wait, Halt and Catch Fire is starting up in a couple of weeks.
Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?!
UBNT would, take out the primary Air CRM competitor, put all the remaining coders on one of their boats, in the 2 years it takes that boat to get anywhere ther ewill be no updates or support. It will be madness on the ship, first with some cannibalism then... well its not pretty On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:23 AM, WaveDirect li...@wavedirect.org wrote: If its digis it'll mean they'll let it rot. They don't use it. Although it is a separate company from Bertram I don't see how anyone would buy it to let it die. - Original Message - From: Trey Scarborough t...@3dsc.co To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:34:07 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Truly my personal guess about what is going on after all of the events lately with powercode is that someone bought them up. This would be something that I am sure would make any employee rethink there career options. Just by the way they seem to be leaving and very open about accepting new offers, but not certain what they are wanting to do going on. I have been in the position of buyout and mergers from large companies before. It usually means that key employees get large bonuses to stick around and support transitioning. I as well had to decide to stick around or leave and have done both. From all the anouncments and changes I would suspect that there is a very good chance this could end up going either good or bad. If it is a larger company with a great deal of resources they may take powercode and greatly improve the product or stick it on the shelf and let it rot. I would hope it would be for the better. On 05/15/2015 10:31 AM, WaveDirect wrote: Well I heard they were gearing up for bigger things. The reasons for them leaving were private and really don't matter as far as the product is concerned. They both were there for a while so maybe a change in life is good for them both. Powercode is in a pretty good state at the moment but I just hope they can hire someone SOON.. a ringer who'll give Powercode the same care and consideration that Simon and Jacob gave it. - Original Message - From: That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:21:06 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! The good thing about it is there wont be any safe major updates for a while so everybody can focus on their summer projects, but with these two gone, there is no way the company vision wont change. With simon there it had become a beautiful usercentric product. On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 10:15 AM, WaveDirect li...@wavedirect.org wrote: Yes the culling has begun... Not happy. - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 10:28:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Say aint so? From: CBB Fuller par...@cyberbroadband.netmailto: par...@cyberbroadband.net Reply-To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto: af@afmug.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2015 at 10:20 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! hmmm, not sure i like what i am hearing - Original Message - From: Josh Luthmanmailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 8:51 AM Subject: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Wow... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] powercode
Yeah also deleting posts as well that were active. - Original Message - From: CBB - Jay Fuller par...@cyberbroadband.net To: memb...@wispa.org, af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 11:55:14 PM Subject: [AFMUG] powercode so i was trolling through the forum just now, it's one of a few places i like to hit several times a week to see whats been posted, done, etc. i've noticed king alex (as i've named him) seems to be a new guy and has also been trolling through the forum - even old posts - and answering a ton of questions. so far, he seems to be really knowledgeable in sql. ...and knowledgeable in the database (since he's answering requests - both new and old - for how to get custom data out of the db) anyone know how long alex has worked there?
Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight
IIRC on Boeing the info network and flight control stuff is separated by nothing more than a VLAN. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I am going to totally dis-believe that anyone can issue flight control commands over an ethernet network accessible by an under the passenger seat box of electronics. First, I doubt that critical flight hardware speaks garden variety ethernet. Second, I have to believe there is an air gap between infotainment and critical networks. But I didn't believe Lance Armstrong could have ever been guilty of doping either. -Original Message- From: WaveDirect Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:26 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight Yeah ... makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking by allowing the wifi network be on the same network as the flight controls. This is a possible Cylon situation. - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway r...@triadwireless.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 5:21:38 PM Subject: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/ Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO 4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040 602-426-0542 r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.net www.triadwireless.nethttp://www.triadwireless.net/ That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P.C. Hodgell
Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight
But when the FMS sends a command to an aileron, I will be gobsmacked to discover that commend involved ethernet in any way. There is triple redundancy on the fly by wire systems. However, if there is some kind of ethernet port on the FMS that could be used to take over FMS in some kind of diagnostic mode, I could believe that might be able to be used. I am thinking this hacker is wanting 15 minutes of fame. He may get 15 years of s**t storm instead. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:38 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight IIRC on Boeing the info network and flight control stuff is separated by nothing more than a VLAN. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I am going to totally dis-believe that anyone can issue flight control commands over an ethernet network accessible by an under the passenger seat box of electronics. First, I doubt that critical flight hardware speaks garden variety ethernet. Second, I have to believe there is an air gap between infotainment and critical networks. But I didn't believe Lance Armstrong could have ever been guilty of doping either. -Original Message- From: WaveDirect Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:26 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight Yeah ... makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking by allowing the wifi network be on the same network as the flight controls. This is a possible Cylon situation. - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway r...@triadwireless.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 5:21:38 PM Subject: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/ Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO 4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040 602-426-0542 r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.net www.triadwireless.nethttp://www.triadwireless.net/ That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P.C. Hodgell
Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight
Most likely it isn't the control systems they took control of. Probably the GPS. Todays jets are pretty simple. You learned to do all of it manually but in reality most pilots today just take off and land and that is about it. Rest of it is all automatic by tuning in alt/speed and nav points. In fact most of it is just preparing the nav, frequencies and approach plates. So if they can get into the gps system then they could push new coords in. There are some wireless comms as well that can pull and push information to engines and other systems. How that gets distributed inside the plane is probably all switched and vlan'ed as Josh said. - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:42:30 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight But when the FMS sends a command to an aileron, I will be gobsmacked to discover that commend involved ethernet in any way. There is triple redundancy on the fly by wire systems. However, if there is some kind of ethernet port on the FMS that could be used to take over FMS in some kind of diagnostic mode, I could believe that might be able to be used. I am thinking this hacker is wanting 15 minutes of fame. He may get 15 years of s**t storm instead. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:38 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight IIRC on Boeing the info network and flight control stuff is separated by nothing more than a VLAN. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I am going to totally dis-believe that anyone can issue flight control commands over an ethernet network accessible by an under the passenger seat box of electronics. First, I doubt that critical flight hardware speaks garden variety ethernet. Second, I have to believe there is an air gap between infotainment and critical networks. But I didn't believe Lance Armstrong could have ever been guilty of doping either. -Original Message- From: WaveDirect Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:26 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight Yeah ... makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking by allowing the wifi network be on the same network as the flight controls. This is a possible Cylon situation. - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway r...@triadwireless.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 5:21:38 PM Subject: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/ Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO 4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040 602-426-0542 r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.net www.triadwireless.nethttp://www.triadwireless.net/ That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P.C. Hodgell
Re: [AFMUG] powercode
not cool bro On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:27 AM, WaveDirect li...@wavedirect.org wrote: Yeah also deleting posts as well that were active. - Original Message - From: CBB - Jay Fuller par...@cyberbroadband.net To: memb...@wispa.org, af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 11:55:14 PM Subject: [AFMUG] powercode so i was trolling through the forum just now, it's one of a few places i like to hit several times a week to see whats been posted, done, etc. i've noticed king alex (as i've named him) seems to be a new guy and has also been trolling through the forum - even old posts - and answering a ton of questions. so far, he seems to be really knowledgeable in sql. ...and knowledgeable in the database (since he's answering requests - both new and old - for how to get custom data out of the db) anyone know how long alex has worked there? -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
[AFMUG] radio mobile clutter density
Does anybody know what the unit of measurement is for the clutter density in Radio Mobile? The column says (%) at the top, but I'm wondering percent of what?
Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?!
This is a typical day on AFMUG. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Lewis Bergman lewis.berg...@gmail.com wrote: Things must be dull today On May 18, 2015 10:13 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: UBNT would, take out the primary Air CRM competitor, put all the remaining coders on one of their boats, in the 2 years it takes that boat to get anywhere ther ewill be no updates or support. It will be madness on the ship, first with some cannibalism then... well its not pretty On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:23 AM, WaveDirect li...@wavedirect.org wrote: If its digis it'll mean they'll let it rot. They don't use it. Although it is a separate company from Bertram I don't see how anyone would buy it to let it die. - Original Message - From: Trey Scarborough t...@3dsc.co To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:34:07 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Truly my personal guess about what is going on after all of the events lately with powercode is that someone bought them up. This would be something that I am sure would make any employee rethink there career options. Just by the way they seem to be leaving and very open about accepting new offers, but not certain what they are wanting to do going on. I have been in the position of buyout and mergers from large companies before. It usually means that key employees get large bonuses to stick around and support transitioning. I as well had to decide to stick around or leave and have done both. From all the anouncments and changes I would suspect that there is a very good chance this could end up going either good or bad. If it is a larger company with a great deal of resources they may take powercode and greatly improve the product or stick it on the shelf and let it rot. I would hope it would be for the better. On 05/15/2015 10:31 AM, WaveDirect wrote: Well I heard they were gearing up for bigger things. The reasons for them leaving were private and really don't matter as far as the product is concerned. They both were there for a while so maybe a change in life is good for them both. Powercode is in a pretty good state at the moment but I just hope they can hire someone SOON.. a ringer who'll give Powercode the same care and consideration that Simon and Jacob gave it. - Original Message - From: That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:21:06 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! The good thing about it is there wont be any safe major updates for a while so everybody can focus on their summer projects, but with these two gone, there is no way the company vision wont change. With simon there it had become a beautiful usercentric product. On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 10:15 AM, WaveDirect li...@wavedirect.org wrote: Yes the culling has begun... Not happy. - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 10:28:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Say aint so? From: CBB Fuller par...@cyberbroadband.netmailto: par...@cyberbroadband.net Reply-To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto: af@afmug.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2015 at 10:20 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! hmmm, not sure i like what i am hearing - Original Message - From: Josh Luthmanmailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 8:51 AM Subject: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Wow... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] visual ospf mapping
I did a sort of link bandwidth reference for OSPF interface cost. Kinda how Cisco auto-cost works, which is not ideal when you have a GigE interface but a microwave path that only does 200-400Mbps. But I quickly found out that wasn't really the best design, things routed weird and I was getting a lot of equal-cost routes. That was mostly because of so many backup links which actually forms multiple rings, and yeah, some links sit idle most of the time, but they're useful because rain fade sucks bad. Really just gotta draw it out to visualize path costs and how you want traffic to flow. There will still be tweaking required to get it perfect. :( On 5/18/2015 10:28 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote: Does the dude have any method to indicate OSPF paths visually? We are far from implentation, so its no priority, Im just curious how best to monitor such things. I havent messed with the dud much before, always had problems. But installed it the other day and had it scan the office network. how long has it been mapping physical ports? I thought that was like a buttered bee. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight
I'd say something snarky but I'm writing this e-mail while in flight on the airplane Wi-Fi. Everyone around me has a laptop open too. H... Daniel White (303) 746-3590 -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of WaveDirect Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 7:27 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight Yeah ... makes me wonder what the hell they were thinking by allowing the wifi network be on the same network as the flight controls. This is a possible Cylon situation. - Original Message - From: Rory Conaway r...@triadwireless.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 5:21:38 PM Subject: [AFMUG] I'll be looking at the guy across the aisle with the open laptop a little more closely on my next flight http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher- commandeered-plane/ Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO 4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040 602-426-0542 r...@triadwireless.netmailto:r...@triadwireless.net www.triadwireless.nethttp://www.triadwireless.net/ That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. - P.C. Hodgell --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com
Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
Protect yourself. What we do with pfsense is we created a group for bad users and put their IP in the group. This firewall group blocks incoming ssh/ntp/dns/ftp/telnet/upnp/etc. If it's a problem, they'll call us back (finally). If not, the problem is still resolved as far as we care. On May 18, 2015 8:18:11 AM AKDT, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice. One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side. This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router, there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers. My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die? I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like blocking high numbered ports. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
I keep meaning to address all the shadowserver reports, we get like 5 different ones each day I think now. I wonder if you could write some sort of email parser to pull in the reports and take the data from the attachments to automatically generate rules On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Cassidy B. Larson c...@infowest.com wrote: If you don’t block it, or they don’t fix it, they’ll more than likely participate in a DDOS. Plus, it could impact their service and they think it’s your fault :) I’ve seen a few of those types of DDOS this year. -c On May 18, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice. One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side. This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router, there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers. My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die? I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like blocking high numbered ports. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
We have seen DDOS attacks using port 1900 which max out the customers upload. This isn't terrible for our network, but the customers connection doesn't work very well. We generally don't block ports, but I made an exception for 1900 and 5351. We block UDP traffic inbound to these ports. The chances of DDOS/abuse is too high, and it is documented as a port used for UPnP and NAT-PMP which is not supposed to be public. The chances of any other service using these is pretty low. We've not had any complaints. On 5/18/2015 9:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice. One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side. This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router, there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers. My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die? I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like blocking high numbered ports.
Re: [AFMUG] visual ospf mapping
Still wish there was an OSPF(+) that would somehow account for flows. I
guess the closest we have now is MPLS. I'd like to be able to use all
the routes, even though some of them are not optimal.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 8:50 AM, George Skorup wrote:
I did a sort of link bandwidth reference for OSPF interface cost.
Kinda how Cisco auto-cost works, which is not ideal when you have a
GigE interface but a microwave path that only does 200-400Mbps. But I
quickly found out that wasn't really the best design, things routed
weird and I was getting a lot of equal-cost routes. That was mostly
because of so many backup links which actually forms multiple rings,
and yeah, some links sit idle most of the time, but they're useful
because rain fade sucks bad.
Really just gotta draw it out to visualize path costs and how you want
traffic to flow. There will still be tweaking required to get it
perfect. :(
On 5/18/2015 10:28 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
Does the dude have any method to indicate OSPF paths visually? We are
far from implentation, so its no priority, Im just curious how best
to monitor such things.
I havent messed with the dud much before, always had problems. But
installed it the other day and had it scan the office network. how
long has it been mapping physical ports? I thought that was like a
buttered bee.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] radio mobile clutter density
To my knowledge there is no real unit of measurement, that's one of the values which I've set (to 499% in most heavily-treed regions - no round numbers so it's obviously something I changed, not a default program value) to make RM's estimates better match results which were gotten in the real world. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:04 AM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Does anybody know what the unit of measurement is for the clutter density in Radio Mobile? The column says (%) at the top, but I'm wondering percent of what?
Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over.
Yeah... kind lost the passion for working 24/7/365.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 11:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over.
You could always go out to your garage and build something
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/17/2015 8:39 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Not much of a reason to live now...
�
Oh, wait, Halt and Catch Fire is starting up in a couple of weeks.�
[AFMUG] Fwd: Usage of Teredo and IPv6 for P2P on Windows 10 and Xbox One
- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Forwarded Message - From: Darrin Veit dv...@microsoft.com To: na...@nanog.org Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 11:57:59 AM Subject: Usage of Teredo and IPv6 for P2P on Windows 10 and Xbox One Hi Everyone - We've had very fruitful discussions with members of this community on Xbox One networking behavior, in particular concerning P2P multiplayer gaming activity. In an effort to continue that useful dialogue, we wanted to provide an informational update for Xbox One, but also share relevant details on upcoming Windows functionality in terms of Teredo and IPv6 usage. We also include some observations about IPv4 and IPv6 health that may be broadly interesting, especially as it pertains to network readiness for Xbox multiplayer via IPv6. New Xbox experiences launching on Windows 10 will use Teredo for P2P communications Earlier this year we announced some Xbox functionality coming to Windows 10. One key feature of Windows 10 is enabling multiplayer gaming and chat functionality between Xbox One consoles and Windows 10 devices. This functionality on Windows 10 will behave similarly to how multiplayer works today on Xbox One, using Teredo for NAT traversal and IPsec for security. When used for Xbox Live enabled experiences, the Windows 10 Teredo client will prefer originating traffic from the IANA-registered port, 3074, when available. More detailed guidance on Xbox One behavior is linked at the bottom of this email. It also should be noted that Windows supports a broad range of applications and a huge portfolio of great games outside of the Xbox Live ecosystem. In general, Microsoft encourages broad adoption of the recommendations in RFC 4787, RFC 6092, and RFC 6888 to maximize the viability of P2P technologies for all. IPv4's P2P health is degrading Qualitative and quantitative evidence available to us indicates that overall availability of functioning P2P connectivity on the IPv4 Internet is decreasing over time. In particular we are concerned that IPv4 address scarcity is forcing many small and medium market network operators to deploy carrier-grade NAT functionality. This often results in end-users being intractably stuck behind strict networks with degraded multiplayer experiences as a result. Healthy, standards-compliant IPv6 access is broadly needed, sooner rather than later. However, we have identified a few areas of concern in regard to IPv6 support that will hinder the efficacy of enabling multiplayer on IPv6. IPv6 is being deployed, but not perfectly, jeopardizing IPv6 P2P - Across the Xbox One customer base, in particular for customers who play multiplayer games, we observe that a substantial minority (around 20%) of devices have native IPv6 configured. This represents a much higher IPv6 penetration rate than Microsoft's other products and services report, as well as public data from other sources. However we have numerous concerns about IPv6's growth. We are often finding that retail customer premise equipment is configured with IPv6 disabled by default, requiring user action to enable. We've also encountered a very small set of reports where IPv6 latency and bandwidth performance are suboptimal compared to IPv4. Reports of this nature have usually focused on streaming media experiences and user concern that IPv6 is slower than IPv4 (i.e. I get 1080P resolution with IPv4, and 720P with IPv6). In the rare cases where these reports have been substantiated, the primary culprit has been differences in deployed CDN support. Also, some networking hardware and operators apply firewall policy to the IPv6 path contrary to RFC 6092 recommendations. Of particular concern are configurations where unsolicited inbound IKE/IPsec traffic is not permitted in the default operating mode. Growth of these non-conformant configurations puts the P2P benefit of the next generation Internet in jeopardy. It would be incredibly regrettable if IPv6 necessitated the high level of configuration and inefficiency currently required for IPv4. Deprecating public Teredo servers for Windows Vista and Windows 7 On May 4th, 2015, we began deactivating Microsoft's publicly available Teredo servers currently configured as the default servers for Windows Vista and Windows 7 clients. This is a result of limited usage on those platforms and our desire to focus our operations on Xbox One and Windows 10. If you read this far, you are awesome. We will likely request a NANOG presentation slot later in the year to discuss these points, but we want to make sure we have sufficiently interesting and new things to discuss before swallowing up people's time. Network operators and CPE manufactures are encouraged to reach out to our team at xboxter...@microsoft.com with operational questions.
Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over.
You could always go out to your garage and build something
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/17/2015 8:39 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Not much of a reason to live now...
Oh, wait, Halt and Catch Fire is starting up in a couple of weeks.
Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over.
It was worth watching from my perspective. I liked how the engineers wife (who was also an engineer and worked at TI) saved everyone's butt. Still not sure what platform the show is somewhat following. I thought I figured it out last year but I forgot. It started out kinda mimicking the phoenix BIOS clean room effort. -Original Message- From: WaveDirect Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:55 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over. I only caught 2 episodes of Halt.. (pardon the pun). Was it any good overall? It seemed ok but nothing interesting other than the bitchy blonde chick trying to do her own thing. I didn't bother following it. - Original Message - From: David dmilho...@wletc.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 10:50:53 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sad, Mad Men is over. Keep looking for the FEAR the WALKING DEAD season to start On 05/17/2015 10:39 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: Not much of a reason to live now... Oh, wait, Halt and Catch Fire is starting up in a couple of weeks.
[AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice. One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side. This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router, there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers. My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die? I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like blocking high numbered ports.
Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
If you don’t block it, or they don’t fix it, they’ll more than likely participate in a DDOS. Plus, it could impact their service and they think it’s your fault :) I’ve seen a few of those types of DDOS this year. -c On May 18, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice. One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side. This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router, there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers. My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die? I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like blocking high numbered ports.
Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
From their e-mail list: We do support an option along the lines of what you are asking. We have an interface up to pull the .csv-files from https://dl.shadowserver.org/reports/ (down at the moment, planned maintenance - should be up again tonight ) In order to be able to log in to that interface, you need to change your mailman password globally, by logging in to your account using the url listed in the monthly mail.shadowserver.org mailing list memberships reminder, hit log in, and check the 'change globally' button in the 'change password' field. An hour or so after updating the mailinglist password you should be able to log in to https://dl.shadowserver.org/reports/ . You can either script up pulling down the csvs, or I can ship you a script for pull down the csv on a linux host that one of our report recipients wrote and shared with us. Thanks, - -- Kjell Chr - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 11:55:28 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers I keep meaning to address all the shadowserver reports, we get like 5 different ones each day I think now. I wonder if you could write some sort of email parser to pull in the reports and take the data from the attachments to automatically generate rules On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Cassidy B. Larson c...@infowest.com wrote: If you don’t block it, or they don’t fix it, they’ll more than likely participate in a DDOS. Plus, it could impact their service and they think it’s your fault :) I’ve seen a few of those types of DDOS this year. -c On May 18, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice. One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side. This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router, there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers. My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die? I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like blocking high numbered ports. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?!
Things must be dull today On May 18, 2015 10:13 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: UBNT would, take out the primary Air CRM competitor, put all the remaining coders on one of their boats, in the 2 years it takes that boat to get anywhere ther ewill be no updates or support. It will be madness on the ship, first with some cannibalism then... well its not pretty On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:23 AM, WaveDirect li...@wavedirect.org wrote: If its digis it'll mean they'll let it rot. They don't use it. Although it is a separate company from Bertram I don't see how anyone would buy it to let it die. - Original Message - From: Trey Scarborough t...@3dsc.co To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 9:34:07 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Truly my personal guess about what is going on after all of the events lately with powercode is that someone bought them up. This would be something that I am sure would make any employee rethink there career options. Just by the way they seem to be leaving and very open about accepting new offers, but not certain what they are wanting to do going on. I have been in the position of buyout and mergers from large companies before. It usually means that key employees get large bonuses to stick around and support transitioning. I as well had to decide to stick around or leave and have done both. From all the anouncments and changes I would suspect that there is a very good chance this could end up going either good or bad. If it is a larger company with a great deal of resources they may take powercode and greatly improve the product or stick it on the shelf and let it rot. I would hope it would be for the better. On 05/15/2015 10:31 AM, WaveDirect wrote: Well I heard they were gearing up for bigger things. The reasons for them leaving were private and really don't matter as far as the product is concerned. They both were there for a while so maybe a change in life is good for them both. Powercode is in a pretty good state at the moment but I just hope they can hire someone SOON.. a ringer who'll give Powercode the same care and consideration that Simon and Jacob gave it. - Original Message - From: That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:21:06 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! The good thing about it is there wont be any safe major updates for a while so everybody can focus on their summer projects, but with these two gone, there is no way the company vision wont change. With simon there it had become a beautiful usercentric product. On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 10:15 AM, WaveDirect li...@wavedirect.org wrote: Yes the culling has begun... Not happy. - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 10:28:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Say aint so? From: CBB Fuller par...@cyberbroadband.netmailto: par...@cyberbroadband.net Reply-To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto: af@afmug.com Date: Friday, May 15, 2015 at 10:20 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com af@afmug.commailto: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! hmmm, not sure i like what i am hearing - Original Message - From: Josh Luthmanmailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 8:51 AM Subject: [AFMUG] Jacob too?! Wow... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] visual ospf mapping
Could you do SNMP/ROS/etc and put the throughput on the links between devices? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 11:29 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: Does the dude have any method to indicate OSPF paths visually? We are far from implentation, so its no priority, Im just curious how best to monitor such things. I havent messed with the dud much before, always had problems. But installed it the other day and had it scan the office network. how long has it been mapping physical ports? I thought that was like a buttered bee. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] powercode
oh ? - Original Message - From: WaveDirect To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] powercode Yeah also deleting posts as well that were active. - Original Message - From: CBB - Jay Fuller par...@cyberbroadband.net To: memb...@wispa.org, af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 11:55:14 PM Subject: [AFMUG] powercode so i was trolling through the forum just now, it's one of a few places i like to hit several times a week to see whats been posted, done, etc. i've noticed king alex (as i've named him) seems to be a new guy and has also been trolling through the forum - even old posts - and answering a ton of questions. so far, he seems to be really knowledgeable in sql. ...and knowledgeable in the database (since he's answering requests - both new and old - for how to get custom data out of the db) anyone know how long alex has worked there?
[AFMUG] AirRouter firmware
Does anyone have standard UBNT Airrouter firmware they can send me? Something after XM.v5.5.2 but before 5.5.8. I’,m getting a bad image message when trying to update. Looking for something intermediate. Thanks, Carl Peterson PORT NETWORKS 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707
Re: [AFMUG] AirRouter firmware
Its standard firmware shared across all XM hardware. Make sure you aren't trying to upgrade from the upload config button. On May 18, 2015 10:37:07 AM AKDT, CARL PETERSON cpeter...@portnetworks.com wrote: Does anyone have standard UBNT Airrouter firmware they can send me? Something after XM.v5.5.2 but before 5.5.8. I’,m getting a bad image message when trying to update. Looking for something intermediate. Thanks, Carl Peterson PORT NETWORKS 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707 -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment
I build my own Macs.
Much cheaper and I don’t have to infect the hardware with windows.
On May 16, 2015, at 2:00 PM, Mike Hammett af...@ics-il.net wrote:
Nothing personal intended. I apply it equally to all Apple users.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
From: Brett A Mansfield li...@silverlakeinternet.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 2:51:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment
Guys, there is no need for personal attacks here. I thought this was a
friendly debate. How about we agree to disagree.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On May 16, 2015, at 1:20 PM, joseph marsh bwireless...@gmail.com wrote:
You got that right!!!
On May 16, 2015 2:16 PM, Mike Hammett af...@ics-il.net wrote:
The only thing that works best on Apple products are idiots.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
From: Brett A Mansfield li...@silverlakeinternet.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 2:11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment
I'm the farthest right wing conservative you're likely to ever meet, not
rich but not poor, and white. I only use PC if there is an absolute reason
for it...and that is extremely rare. All of the best networking tools work
best on mac.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On May 16, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Apples, (black)Lincolns and Birkenstocks are for rich liberal democrats.
PCs (specifically Dells), white Cadillacs and Ostrich Boots are for rich
conservative republicans.
Republican boys like to date democrat girls but marry republican girls
(and later cheat with democrat divorcees).
Democrat girls like to date democrat boys but they are all too poor and
stoned and majoring in liberal arts or political science.
Republican girls just run around with each other getting drunk until some
republican boy sobers up enough to ask them for marriage.
Poor republican boys get reality shows involving guns, mud, moonshine and
wrestling animals in a swamp.
Poor democrat boys wear shirts with political causes printed on them,
hang out with Goth cutter girls and smoke cigarettes.
Give a republican boy a welder and he will make a swamp buggy out of an
old VW.
Give a democrat boy a welder and he will turn it into an objet d'art
symbolizing the military industrial oppression of the worker.
And that is why there are so many apple haters here...
-Original Message- From: Brett A Mansfield
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 12:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment
I buy all of my groceries at Walmart and most of my electronics at apple.
There are a lot of apple haters on here it seems.
I can walk a customer through setting up their AirPort Extreme a lot
easier than Asus, netgear, or dlink. The Apple interface never changes.
It's the same for every model. The others change their gui quite
frequently.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On May 16, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:
I remember telling a customer he should either learn how to configure
his AirPort himself, get AppleCare, or get a regular router like a
Linksys or Netgear with a web GUI if he expected his ISP to provide
step-by-step phone support.
He said he would go out and buy a non-Apple router.
He came back with a TimeMachine.
That's another thing I hate about Apple, they have to use special names
for ordinary things, so people don't compare prices. So you don't have
a router, you have an AirPort. You don't have an external hard drive,
you have a TimeMachine.
But just like some people only shop at WalMart, some people only shop
for electronics at the Apple Store. Probably the same people who buy
all their groceries at Whole Foods.
-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment
No doubt.
The least they could do is to give it a web GUI. Beyond me why it has to
be some proprietary interface.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/16/2015 10:37 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
On 5/16/15 10:17, Bill Prince wrote:
Plus, for reasons that are not clear to me, Apple has to change the way
the stupid AirPort admin tool works every month or two. So even if you
knew how to set it up in August; come September it's a whole new ball
game.
Software developers need to do something.
~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment
I had a phone once that caught the iOS virus. Never used that thing again. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Dan Petermann Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 2:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment I build my own Macs. Much cheaper and I don't have to infect the hardware with windows. On May 16, 2015, at 2:00 PM, Mike Hammett af...@ics-il.net wrote: Nothing personal intended. I apply it equally to all Apple users. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com http://www.ics-il.com/ From: Brett A Mansfield li...@silverlakeinternet.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 2:51:55 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment Guys, there is no need for personal attacks here. I thought this was a friendly debate. How about we agree to disagree. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield On May 16, 2015, at 1:20 PM, joseph marsh bwireless...@gmail.com wrote: You got that right!!! On May 16, 2015 2:16 PM, Mike Hammett af...@ics-il.net wrote: The only thing that works best on Apple products are idiots. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com http://www.ics-il.com/ From: Brett A Mansfield li...@silverlakeinternet.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 2:11:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment I'm the farthest right wing conservative you're likely to ever meet, not rich but not poor, and white. I only use PC if there is an absolute reason for it...and that is extremely rare. All of the best networking tools work best on mac. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield On May 16, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Apples, (black)Lincolns and Birkenstocks are for rich liberal democrats. PCs (specifically Dells), white Cadillacs and Ostrich Boots are for rich conservative republicans. Republican boys like to date democrat girls but marry republican girls (and later cheat with democrat divorcees). Democrat girls like to date democrat boys but they are all too poor and stoned and majoring in liberal arts or political science. Republican girls just run around with each other getting drunk until some republican boy sobers up enough to ask them for marriage. Poor republican boys get reality shows involving guns, mud, moonshine and wrestling animals in a swamp. Poor democrat boys wear shirts with political causes printed on them, hang out with Goth cutter girls and smoke cigarettes. Give a republican boy a welder and he will make a swamp buggy out of an old VW. Give a democrat boy a welder and he will turn it into an objet d'art symbolizing the military industrial oppression of the worker. And that is why there are so many apple haters here... -Original Message- From: Brett A Mansfield Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 12:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment I buy all of my groceries at Walmart and most of my electronics at apple. There are a lot of apple haters on here it seems. I can walk a customer through setting up their AirPort Extreme a lot easier than Asus, netgear, or dlink. The Apple interface never changes. It's the same for every model. The others change their gui quite frequently. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield On May 16, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: I remember telling a customer he should either learn how to configure his AirPort himself, get AppleCare, or get a regular router like a Linksys or Netgear with a web GUI if he expected his ISP to provide step-by-step phone support. He said he would go out and buy a non-Apple router. He came back with a TimeMachine. That's another thing I hate about Apple, they have to use special names for ordinary things, so people don't compare prices. So you don't have a router, you have an AirPort. You don't have an external hard drive, you have a TimeMachine. But just like some people only shop at WalMart, some people only shop for electronics at the Apple Store. Probably the same people who buy all their groceries at Whole Foods. -Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:06 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer equipment
Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
Yeah, even a video tutorial didn't seem to work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHnacMKb2ro
-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
We've seen this in a small handful of cases. The end-user impact is that
it eats their upstream bandwidth. In the cases that I've seen we have
been able to update the firmware, so I guess they all had been using the
latest hardware. However, we have had to hand-hold the users involved
because they could not do it on their own.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 9:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice.
One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers
with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side.
This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and
sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It
tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink
DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router,
there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the
menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers.
My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just
wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die?
I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but
these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like
blocking high numbered ports.
Re: [AFMUG] how much to worry about SSDP vulnerable customers
We've seen this in a small handful of cases. The end-user impact is that
it eats their upstream bandwidth. In the cases that I've seen we have
been able to update the firmware, so I guess they all had been using the
latest hardware. However, we have had to hand-hold the users involved
because they could not do it on their own.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 9:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I finally started getting ShadowServer reports which are nice.
One thing I notice is that about 5% of customers still have routers
with SSDP (the discovery protocol for UPnP) exposed on the WAN side.
This despite the fact that I scanned the network earlier this year and
sent notices to every single customer with this vulnerability. It
tells me very few did anything about it. Most of these are DLink
DIR-615 routers, and except for the very last version of that router,
there is no FW update, their only solution is to disable UPnP in the
menus. Apparently that's too difficult for customers.
My question: is this serious enough to worry about? Should I just
wait for those DLink routers (or their owners) to die?
I guess another solution would be to block ports 1900/2049/5783 but
these might be legitimately in use as ephemeral ports and I don't like
blocking high numbered ports.
[AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find dummy interface anybody come across this? -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x. On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find dummy interface anybody come across this? -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is anything going to break On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote: Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x. On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find dummy interface anybody come across this? -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was the
last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is
anything going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com
mailto:simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says
cant find dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part
of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
NX216v2
Im slowly onlining OSPF. I have one management subnet thats actually
flowing with OSPF. im a baby steps guy when its a pre drunken passed out in
bushes weekend week
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was the
last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is anything
going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find
dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
4.0.2 is the latest non beta, any problems with that?
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
NX216v2
Im slowly onlining OSPF. I have one management subnet thats actually
flowing with OSPF. im a baby steps guy when its a pre drunken passed out in
bushes weekend week
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was the
last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF
department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is anything
going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find
dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
Yeah, 3.3.10 to 4.x is fine, there should be instructions in the firmware repo as a text file also. On May 18, 2015 2:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is anything going to break On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote: Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x. On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find dummy interface anybody come across this? -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
I think/assumed he was asking about a Powercode BMU rather than Mtik. :)
On May 18, 2015 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was the
last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is anything
going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find
dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
I'd just do 4.0.4 honestly, not much changed in it and it just fixes a
couple off minor bugs.
On May 18, 2015 2:57 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
wrote:
4.0.2 is the latest non beta, any problems with that?
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
NX216v2
Im slowly onlining OSPF. I have one management subnet thats actually
flowing with OSPF. im a baby steps guy when its a pre drunken passed out in
bushes weekend week
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was
the last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF
department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is anything
going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant
find dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
Btw, all this advice provided as is, I'm not an employee of Powercode etc
etc
On May 18, 2015 3:00 PM, Simon Westlake simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com
wrote:
I'd just do 4.0.4 honestly, not much changed in it and it just fixes a
couple off minor bugs.
On May 18, 2015 2:57 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
4.0.2 is the latest non beta, any problems with that?
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
NX216v2
Im slowly onlining OSPF. I have one management subnet thats actually
flowing with OSPF. im a baby steps guy when its a pre drunken passed out in
bushes weekend week
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com
wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was
the last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF
department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is
anything going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant
find dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the
team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
i wont tell
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Btw, all this advice provided as is, I'm not an employee of Powercode etc
etc
On May 18, 2015 3:00 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
I'd just do 4.0.4 honestly, not much changed in it and it just fixes a
couple off minor bugs.
On May 18, 2015 2:57 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
4.0.2 is the latest non beta, any problems with that?
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:55 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
NX216v2
Im slowly onlining OSPF. I have one management subnet thats actually
flowing with OSPF. im a baby steps guy when its a pre drunken passed out in
bushes weekend week
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com
wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was
the last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF
department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is
anything going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant
find dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the
team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
Oh you're right (read the subject line dummy)
Sorry.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:59 PM, Simon Westlake wrote:
I think/assumed he was asking about a Powercode BMU rather than Mtik. :)
On May 18, 2015 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com
mailto:part15...@gmail.com wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which
was the last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF
department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is
anything going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com
mailto:simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is
says cant find dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but
you don't see your team as part of yourself you
have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.
Re: [AFMUG] poercode loopback IP
jesus henry crumbs! this OSPF business is like magic.
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:
Oh you're right (read the subject line dummy)
Sorry.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:59 PM, Simon Westlake wrote:
I think/assumed he was asking about a Powercode BMU rather than Mtik. :)
On May 18, 2015 2:51 PM, Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote:
Go for it. If you're going to 4.x, I would recommend 4.17, which was the
last version in the 4.x series.
But I have found that the 5.26 is a bit more robust in the OSPF
department.
What hardware is this on BTW?
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 5/18/2015 12:48 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
can I go 3.3.10 to 4.0.2? or do I need to load in order, and is anything
going to break
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Simon Westlake
simon.westl...@digitalgunfire.com wrote:
Update to the 4.x firmware line, it was fixed late in 3.x.
On May 18, 2015 2:40 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
Since I dont expect much forum followup from powercode
Im trying to set my OSPF router ID IP as a loopback UP
I create the interface, but when I go to apply the IP is says cant find
dummy interface
anybody come across this?
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com
I refuse to use a mount not certified for my intended frequency. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Fixed it. I had given three different tower mounts a frequency of 10.7-11.7 GHz. Database queries got confused... *From:* Sean Heskett af...@zirkel.us *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:35 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Yeah it's been that way for a while :( On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Someone broke the Products menu =( Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com
For an extra $5 per mount, I will give you a COC stating that the mount has been tested and has been found to conform to safe and legal operation limits at the specific frequency and bandwith of operation. Be sure to include the power levels and modulation formats upon request. From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 2:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com I refuse to use a mount not certified for my intended frequency. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Fixed it. I had given three different tower mounts a frequency of 10.7-11.7 GHz. Database queries got confused... From: Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:35 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Yeah it's been that way for a while :( On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Someone broke the Products menu =( Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com
Actually, I think we do on some products. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Do you include the government warning sticker? How much extra for that? http://www.ecfr.gov/graphics/pdfs/ec03oc91.048.pdf From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com For an extra $5 per mount, I will give you a COC stating that the mount has been tested and has been found to conform to safe and legal operation limits at the specific frequency and bandwith of operation. Be sure to include the power levels and modulation formats upon request. From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 2:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com I refuse to use a mount not certified for my intended frequency. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Fixed it. I had given three different tower mounts a frequency of 10.7-11.7 GHz. Database queries got confused... From: Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:35 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Yeah it's been that way for a while :( On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Someone broke the Products menu =( Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com
Fixed it. I had given three different tower mounts a frequency of 10.7-11.7 GHz. Database queries got confused... From: Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:35 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Yeah it's been that way for a while :( On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Someone broke the Products menu =( Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
Re: [AFMUG] radio mobile clutter density
I've been using 500% for the same reasonthat's what got me results similar to real measurements. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a statistical fudge factor, but I was hoping to be a little more scientific about the adjustments in the future. Real tree studying types have formulas based on the number of stems per square area and a sampling of the diameter of said stems. 500 is on the right order of magnitude to be trees per acreso I was curious. On 5/18/2015 1:55 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: To my knowledge there is no real unit of measurement, that's one of the values which I've set (to 499% in most heavily-treed regions - no round numbers so it's obviously something I changed, not a default program value) to make RM's estimates better match results which were gotten in the real world. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:04 AM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Does anybody know what the unit of measurement is for the clutter density in Radio Mobile? The column says (%) at the top, but I'm wondering percent of what?
Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com
Do you include the government warning sticker? How much extra for that? http://www.ecfr.gov/graphics/pdfs/ec03oc91.048.pdf From: Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com For an extra $5 per mount, I will give you a COC stating that the mount has been tested and has been found to conform to safe and legal operation limits at the specific frequency and bandwith of operation. Be sure to include the power levels and modulation formats upon request. From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 2:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com I refuse to use a mount not certified for my intended frequency. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Fixed it. I had given three different tower mounts a frequency of 10.7-11.7 GHz. Database queries got confused... From: Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:35 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Yeah it's been that way for a while :( On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Someone broke the Products menu =( Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
Re: [AFMUG] radio mobile clutter density
OK, Are there any guesses or opinions on what percentages to use for different types of trees? On 5/18/2015 5:56 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: There's a huge number of factors; number of trees per acre, what kind of tree, what season, what amount of humidity they have (that can cause an aditional 10db of fade fast in certain conditions), how old, how tall etc. A formula to calculate all of those would be unnecessarily complex so a percentage based on matching field results is the easiest solution. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: I've been using 500% for the same reasonthat's what got me results similar to real measurements. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a statistical fudge factor, but I was hoping to be a little more scientific about the adjustments in the future. Real tree studying types have formulas based on the number of stems per square area and a sampling of the diameter of said stems. 500 is on the right order of magnitude to be trees per acreso I was curious. On 5/18/2015 1:55 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: To my knowledge there is no real unit of measurement, that's one of the values which I've set (to 499% in most heavily-treed regions - no round numbers so it's obviously something I changed, not a default program value) to make RM's estimates better match results which were gotten in the real world. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:04 AM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Does anybody know what the unit of measurement is for the clutter density in Radio Mobile? The column says (%) at the top, but I'm wondering percent of what?
Re: [AFMUG] AirRouter firmware
If you can't find an archive to download from let me know. I've got quite a bit of old firmware. - Original Message - From: CARL PETERSON To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 1:37 PM Subject: [AFMUG] AirRouter firmware Does anyone have standard UBNT Airrouter firmware they can send me? Something after XM.v5.5.2 but before 5.5.8. I’,m getting a bad image message when trying to update. Looking for something intermediate. Thanks, Carl Peterson PORT NETWORKS 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707
Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com
Boy, that could have gone dark really quick, some acronyms should not be used around degenerates like me On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: For an extra $5 per mount, I will give you a COC stating that the mount has been tested and has been found to conform to safe and legal operation limits at the specific frequency and bandwith of operation. Be sure to include the power levels and modulation formats upon request. *From:* Lewis Bergman lewis.berg...@gmail.com *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2015 2:43 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com I refuse to use a mount not certified for my intended frequency. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Fixed it. I had given three different tower mounts a frequency of 10.7-11.7 GHz. Database queries got confused... *From:* Sean Heskett af...@zirkel.us *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:35 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Yeah it's been that way for a while :( On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Someone broke the Products menu =( Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
[AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Yeah... I have no idea if it would be practical, or even work... but it's an idea. I can't imagine that -13F would be a problem inside an enclosure around here, since they're normally going to be enough electronics in there to make a fair amount of heat, but if there was an extended power outage or something like that, it could certainly happen... and that's really not when you want stuff failing. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, but Forrest is using all industrial components that are rated to -40C. Are you saying he should add a resistor just to pre-heat the SD slot? ...ok maybe you're on to something there. How about that Forrest? Would a 10cent resistor and 2 minute pre-boot warmup eliminate any issue? On 5/18/2015 10:37 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: You could get around that by putting a heater on board to warm up the components, like the epmp has. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: The danger you have to consider is a cold start, such as if the power was off for awhile. On 5/18/2015 10:32 PM, George Skorup wrote: This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
-13F would be the minimum I would expect to see. That is pretty much the minimum OAT here and the enclosures are usually at least 10F warmer. I would expect internal heating to keep the SD warm. What is the failure if the SD card is too cold? The unit won't boot until it warms up? I could live with that in a cold start situation. Mark On 5/18/15 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot). I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- Mark Radabaugh m...@amplex.net 419-837-5105 x1021 m...@amplex.net
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
There are solutions, it just comes down to bits per dollar. A SD card + socket probably costs around $5-6 to implement, including card. For that you get around 4GB (4096MB) or so. Plus if you're picky about the brand you can get a card with built-in wear leveling, etc, so you don't have to worry about that stuff. But you have the temperature issue. For the same price, you only get 32MB (0.032GB) of soldered in memory. Would 32MB be enough? Probably, but there are a *lot* of things you can do if you have seemingly unlimited storage. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Vince West vi...@shelbybb.com wrote: Is there no solution for embedded memory instead of a card slot? I am assuming it is cost prohibitive or it does not work for your project. That being said there have been days in the winter where we see -5° for days in a row. It doesn't happen often. Even with heat generated from equipment, I am not sure how well it would work or how long it would last being so close to the limit for extended periods of time. On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Why not NAND flash, or is that what you're talking about? The MT boards don't seem to have too many problems with temperature as far as the flash goes. On 5/18/2015 10:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: There are solutions, it just comes down to bits per dollar. A SD card + socket probably costs around $5-6 to implement, including card. For that you get around 4GB (4096MB) or so. Plus if you're picky about the brand you can get a card with built-in wear leveling, etc, so you don't have to worry about that stuff. But you have the temperature issue. For the same price, you only get 32MB (0.032GB) of soldered in memory.Would 32MB be enough? Probably, but there are a *lot* of things you can do if you have seemingly unlimited storage. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Vince West vi...@shelbybb.com mailto:vi...@shelbybb.com wrote: Is there no solution for embedded memory instead of a card slot? I am assuming it is cost prohibitive or it does not work for your project. That being said there have been days in the winter where we see -5° for days in a row. It doesn't happen often. Even with heat generated from equipment, I am not sure how well it would work or how long it would last being so close to the limit for extended periods of time. On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/
Re: [AFMUG] 15 mile EPMP link 2.4
Craig, I don’t have anything offer in the way of help but if you don't mind reporting back how it went and what size dish you used. I would appreciate it. Right now we are deploying some epmp in 5ghz to fill in some area's but I have been considering doing some in 2.4 in specific areas that are clean enough. One in particular we would want to do a few 10 mile links. Best regards, Brandon Yuchasz GogebicRange.net www.gogebicrange.net -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig House Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 6:57 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] 15 mile EPMP link 2.4 Anyone have an idea what kind of reliability/ signal I might see from a 15 mile EPMP 2.4 link Dished at 150' on a tower to a 90 degree sector at 255' on the other end? I have limited experience with the EPMP stuff but so far it is performing well. We even had a 7 mile shot without a dish for a short time that was -72 but we went ahead and dished it. I am installing this link tomorrow and it is a long drive to the site. I just dont want to have it be a problem after I drive 2 1/2 hours back. It is very remote on the dished end but somewhat in a town on the AP end. I've done FSK for years but the EPMP is pretty new to us. Craig
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
There's a lot of things along those lines: The current sitemonitor base unit has 128KB of program memory, 3808 *bytes* (not kb, not mb) of RAM, and an external 1MB flash storage used for configuration and web page storage. I haven't consumed the entire 1MB flash, but that's largely because of the other two limits, although the new web interface might make a dent in this. I'm now working with a newer processor, it has 2 banks of 1MB each of program memory (primary and secondary for firmware updates), and 512K of RAM. The program memory can also be used for configuration and web page storage. A lot of the stuff we wanted to do (traps, etc,) just didn't fit in the older processor. The newer one obviously has a lot more room for growth - but when you start talking about things like SNMP traps, native IPv6 stack, https://, etc, that just need to be done, you can gobble a lot of that memory without thinking. Then you start saying things like system logs, historical graphs, firmware files, etc., and all of a sudden that 1MB isn't enough. So, you need some additional storage. With a SD card, 4GB is enough that in this application you could think 'essentially limitless'. Which is how I got to this question. Just to be clear, I have a different product (than a base 3) which we're close to releasing. In fact, we had hoped to get it out the door by the end of June, but I think this will slip a bit. I figured I'd rather put this new processor in something a bit less risky and a bit lower volume than the base 3 until we had some experience with it. If it works well, it will form the basis for the next iteration of network-connected PacketFlux products. If not, we might be looking for something different, although it will be hard to find something with the power consumption limits I've placed on it. -forrest On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:36 PM, George Skorup geo...@cbcast.com wrote: Yeah, that could be useful. But why not just store stuff like this in RAM? Perfect example is the throughput monitoring statistics on Canopy. It obviously doesn't persist across reboots. I know you probably don't have a lot of RAM to work with though. Let me give you another example pertaining to the SiteMonitor in particular. If I could have a log of the sync pulse status on a SyncInjector for the last 15 minutes (or 30 minutes, or an hour).. on a 1 or 2 second interval, I could prove to Cambium that their code is broken on the 3.6 450 and it is NOT the SyncInjector. I already know it's not the SyncInjectors, and it's not the SyncPipes either. But I wouldn't need this stored permanently. In RAM is good enough. I just can't/don't want to do SNMP polling of the SiteMonitor every second or two, or five. And 10 seconds is too long, 5 minutes is definitely too long. But for something such as this, you could send an SNMP trap (I know, I know) when the 1PPS active value goes to zero, almost instantly. Just sayin. On 5/18/2015 10:52 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: More applicable to the current design, there's been some requests for on-device logging of enough data so that certain values would have historical graphs -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] looking for a simple lp gauge
You're looking for a 'rochester remote ready' guage and transponder. The gauge part gets put on the tank by the tank owner, and the second clips onto the gauge and creates an 0-5V output. -forrest On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:16 PM, David Milholen dmilho...@wletc.com wrote: I am looking for a LP gas gauge that has a sensor for remote sense in the measure of ohms to connect to a site monitor or possibly the standby controller we have to let us know the level of our LP tank. ALSO forest, If you would be so kind to tell me the secret rule for configuring the exorcise rule for a 2 wire generator config. When I set it up it either doesnt start at all or even trigger the standby sequence. Other configs I have tried will start it but it doesnt complete the cycle. -- -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Honest question. Here's the specs on the ODROID-C1: - * Amlogic ARM® Cortex®-A5(ARMv7) 1.5Ghz quad core CPUs * Mali™-450 MP2 GPU (OpenGL ES 2.0/1.1 enabled for Linux and Android) * 1Gbyte DDR3 SDRAM * Gigabit Ethernet * 40pin GPIOs * eMMC4.5 HS200 Flash Storage slot AND UHS-1 SDR50 MicroSD Card slot * USB 2.0 Host x 4, USB OTG x 1, * Infrared(IR) Receiver * Ubuntu 14.04 or Android KitKat Price: $35.00 - Why aren't you just building a software stack for these that integrates with your other products? Josh Reynolds CIO, SPITwSPOTS www.spitwspots.com On 05/18/2015 09:41 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: There's a lot of things along those lines: The current sitemonitor base unit has 128KB of program memory, 3808 *bytes* (not kb, not mb) of RAM, and an external 1MB flash storage used for configuration and web page storage. I haven't consumed the entire 1MB flash, but that's largely because of the other two limits, although the new web interface might make a dent in this. I'm now working with a newer processor, it has 2 banks of 1MB each of program memory (primary and secondary for firmware updates), and 512K of RAM. The program memory can also be used for configuration and web page storage. A lot of the stuff we wanted to do (traps, etc,) just didn't fit in the older processor. The newer one obviously has a lot more room for growth - but when you start talking about things like SNMP traps, native IPv6 stack, https://, etc, that just need to be done, you can gobble a lot of that memory without thinking. Then you start saying things like system logs, historical graphs, firmware files, etc., and all of a sudden that 1MB isn't enough. So, you need some additional storage. With a SD card, 4GB is enough that in this application you could think 'essentially limitless'. Which is how I got to this question. Just to be clear, I have a different product (than a base 3) which we're close to releasing. In fact, we had hoped to get it out the door by the end of June, but I think this will slip a bit. I figured I'd rather put this new processor in something a bit less risky and a bit lower volume than the base 3 until we had some experience with it. If it works well, it will form the basis for the next iteration of network-connected PacketFlux products. If not, we might be looking for something different, although it will be hard to find something with the power consumption limits I've placed on it. -forrest On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:36 PM, George Skorup geo...@cbcast.com mailto:geo...@cbcast.com wrote: Yeah, that could be useful. But why not just store stuff like this in RAM? Perfect example is the throughput monitoring statistics on Canopy. It obviously doesn't persist across reboots. I know you probably don't have a lot of RAM to work with though. Let me give you another example pertaining to the SiteMonitor in particular. If I could have a log of the sync pulse status on a SyncInjector for the last 15 minutes (or 30 minutes, or an hour).. on a 1 or 2 second interval, I could prove to Cambium that their code is broken on the 3.6 450 and it is NOT the SyncInjector. I already know it's not the SyncInjectors, and it's not the SyncPipes either. But I wouldn't need this stored permanently. In RAM is good enough. I just can't/don't want to do SNMP polling of the SiteMonitor every second or two, or five. And 10 seconds is too long, 5 minutes is definitely too long. But for something such as this, you could send an SNMP trap (I know, I know) when the 1PPS active value goes to zero, almost instantly. Just sayin. On 5/18/2015 10:52 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: More applicable to the current design, there's been some requests for on-device logging of enough data so that certain values would have historical graphs -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
I don't know what you have seen but the percentage of components failing at the lie side of the range is pretty small. Having said that, we might have temps down to +10 f for three days on the extreme side so what do I know. On May 18, 2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) li...@packetflux.com wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
And since the card is going to be trapped in a similarly sized enclosure with slightly more power consumption, it's probably a good indication. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, that is why I mentioned that it was the internal site monitor temperature. Forrest knows almost exactly how far off it is from the ambient temperature. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: That probe is a lot warmer than the enclosure. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Let me explain it this way: Because I'm worried about the reliability of the SD card, I'm not likely to prevent basic operation and general operation if it fails. There's going to be sufficient memory otherwise for the device to run and operate correctly. The purpose of the additional memory is for various large data storage. An example would be if this hardware made it into a site monitor Base unit, being able to keep all of the firmware images for all of the expansion module types on the SD card. The unit would then pull from there (much faster) to upgrade expansion modules in a fraction of the time. Another example would be supporting email notifications for events - i.e. the temperature is too cold. Without that functionality, the enhanced features would not be available.More applicable to the current design, there's been some requests for on-device logging of enough data so that certain values would have historical graphs. And so on. This thread is definitely giving me a lot of things to think about... -forrest On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: I would agree with George’s numbers. Some of our smaller enclosures don’t have much thermal mass or internal heating. With the crazy weather extremes, we could conceivably get down to –25F inside the box for a day, especially the ones we purposely put on the north side of a grain bin to shield them from the summer sun. My question would be, what happens if it gets that cold? Lose some data? Lose the firmware? Permanently damage the device? I could live with some data loss as a result of a record temperature day. But I wouldn’t want to go out and replace a failed unit when it’s that cold. *From:* George Skorup geo...@cbcast.com *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2015 9:32 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Lots depends on enclosure and its size. For heat dissipation you usually size them larger. You could size smaller and depending what device is inside my supply some heat.Enclosure heaters start at around 25.00 at Automation Direct fyi Jaime Solorza On May 18, 2015 8:34 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: The danger you have to consider is a cold start, such as if the power was off for awhile. On 5/18/2015 10:32 PM, George Skorup wrote: This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
I actually plan on shipping with the SD card inside (i.e. not intended to be end-user removable), but I definitely was thinking that adding an extended temp range version for an appropriate additional price would be an option. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Just to add a couple random thoughts here... 1) Part of my concern is not knowing the cold failure modes. If you attempt to write to a card when it's cold do you destroy the card? Or does getting too cold by itself cause data loss. If I knew for instance that as long as I didn't write to the card below say -10F, I just would read a temperature sensor near the card. 2) I hate heaters. However, there's about 1W dissipated in the new product, so there is some internal heating. -forrest On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) li...@packetflux.com wrote: Let me explain it this way: Because I'm worried about the reliability of the SD card, I'm not likely to prevent basic operation and general operation if it fails. There's going to be sufficient memory otherwise for the device to run and operate correctly. The purpose of the additional memory is for various large data storage. An example would be if this hardware made it into a site monitor Base unit, being able to keep all of the firmware images for all of the expansion module types on the SD card. The unit would then pull from there (much faster) to upgrade expansion modules in a fraction of the time. Another example would be supporting email notifications for events - i.e. the temperature is too cold. Without that functionality, the enhanced features would not be available.More applicable to the current design, there's been some requests for on-device logging of enough data so that certain values would have historical graphs. And so on. This thread is definitely giving me a lot of things to think about... -forrest On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: I would agree with George’s numbers. Some of our smaller enclosures don’t have much thermal mass or internal heating. With the crazy weather extremes, we could conceivably get down to –25F inside the box for a day, especially the ones we purposely put on the north side of a grain bin to shield them from the summer sun. My question would be, what happens if it gets that cold? Lose some data? Lose the firmware? Permanently damage the device? I could live with some data loss as a result of a record temperature day. But I wouldn’t want to go out and replace a failed unit when it’s that cold. *From:* George Skorup geo...@cbcast.com *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2015 9:32 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Yep, NAND flash is what I'm talking about. At quantities matching product sales, 64MB is about as big as you can get at the same pricing as that 4GB SD card. There are some less expensive parallel parts available, but for various reasons, none of them is suitable for this design (the cost of supporting a parallel memory interface is a big one). -forrest On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:45 PM, George Skorup geo...@cbcast.com wrote: Why not NAND flash, or is that what you're talking about? The MT boards don't seem to have too many problems with temperature as far as the flash goes. On 5/18/2015 10:35 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: There are solutions, it just comes down to bits per dollar. A SD card + socket probably costs around $5-6 to implement, including card. For that you get around 4GB (4096MB) or so. Plus if you're picky about the brand you can get a card with built-in wear leveling, etc, so you don't have to worry about that stuff. But you have the temperature issue. For the same price, you only get 32MB (0.032GB) of soldered in memory. Would 32MB be enough? Probably, but there are a *lot* of things you can do if you have seemingly unlimited storage. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Vince West vi...@shelbybb.com wrote: Is there no solution for embedded memory instead of a card slot? I am assuming it is cost prohibitive or it does not work for your project. That being said there have been days in the winter where we see -5° for days in a row. It doesn't happen often. Even with heat generated from equipment, I am not sure how well it would work or how long it would last being so close to the limit for extended periods of time. On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian
[AFMUG] looking for a simple lp gauge
I am looking for a LP gas gauge that has a sensor for remote sense in the measure of ohms to connect to a site monitor or possibly the standby controller we have to let us know the level of our LP tank. ALSO forest, If you would be so kind to tell me the secret rule for configuring the exorcise rule for a 2 wire generator config. When I set it up it either doesnt start at all or even trigger the standby sequence. Other configs I have tried will start it but it doesnt complete the cycle. --
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
We see -20F ambient once a winter most years. On May 18, 2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) li...@packetflux.com wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Why not both? On May 18, 2015 7:35:37 PM AKDT, Forrest Christian (List Account) li...@packetflux.com wrote: There are solutions, it just comes down to bits per dollar. A SD card + socket probably costs around $5-6 to implement, including card. For that you get around 4GB (4096MB) or so. Plus if you're picky about the brand you can get a card with built-in wear leveling, etc, so you don't have to worry about that stuff. But you have the temperature issue. For the same price, you only get 32MB (0.032GB) of soldered in memory. Would 32MB be enough? Probably, but there are a *lot* of things you can do if you have seemingly unlimited storage. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Vince West vi...@shelbybb.com wrote: Is there no solution for embedded memory instead of a card slot? I am assuming it is cost prohibitive or it does not work for your project. That being said there have been days in the winter where we see -5° for days in a row. It doesn't happen often. Even with heat generated from equipment, I am not sure how well it would work or how long it would last being so close to the limit for extended periods of time. On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Yeah, that could be useful. But why not just store stuff like this in RAM? Perfect example is the throughput monitoring statistics on Canopy. It obviously doesn't persist across reboots. I know you probably don't have a lot of RAM to work with though. Let me give you another example pertaining to the SiteMonitor in particular. If I could have a log of the sync pulse status on a SyncInjector for the last 15 minutes (or 30 minutes, or an hour).. on a 1 or 2 second interval, I could prove to Cambium that their code is broken on the 3.6 450 and it is NOT the SyncInjector. I already know it's not the SyncInjectors, and it's not the SyncPipes either. But I wouldn't need this stored permanently. In RAM is good enough. I just can't/don't want to do SNMP polling of the SiteMonitor every second or two, or five. And 10 seconds is too long, 5 minutes is definitely too long. But for something such as this, you could send an SNMP trap (I know, I know) when the 1PPS active value goes to zero, almost instantly. Just sayin. On 5/18/2015 10:52 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: More applicable to the current design, there's been some requests for on-device logging of enough data so that certain values would have historical graphs
Re: [AFMUG] looking for a simple lp gauge
Can't help with the LP Monitor, but here's my Control Sequence for a 2 wire generator start with Weekly testing. Relay 5 disconnects all load from the panel, Relay 6 controls primary/backup feed to the panel. I found that if I didn't disconnect the load before switching, I would pop breakers. On 5/18/2015 10:16 PM, David Milholen wrote: I am looking for a LP gas gauge that has a sensor for remote sense in the measure of ohms to connect to a site monitor or possibly the standby controller we have to let us know the level of our LP tank. ALSO forest, If you would be so kind to tell me the secret rule for configuring the exorcise rule for a 2 wire generator config. When I set it up it either doesnt start at all or even trigger the standby sequence. Other configs I have tried will start it but it doesnt complete the cycle. --
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot). I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
-13f isn't that hateful. It's not that cold here :P Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On May 18, 2015 10:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
The danger you have to consider is a cold start, such as if the power was off for awhile. On 5/18/2015 10:32 PM, George Skorup wrote: This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot). I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
[AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Is there no solution for embedded memory instead of a card slot? I am assuming it is cost prohibitive or it does not work for your project. That being said there have been days in the winter where we see -5° for days in a row. It doesn't happen often. Even with heat generated from equipment, I am not sure how well it would work or how long it would last being so close to the limit for extended periods of time. On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
[AFMUG] 15 mile EPMP link 2.4
Anyone have an idea what kind of reliability/ signal I might see from a 15 mile EPMP 2.4 link Dished at 150' on a tower to a 90 degree sector at 255' on the other end? I have limited experience with the EPMP stuff but so far it is performing well. We even had a 7 mile shot without a dish for a short time that was -72 but we went ahead and dished it. I am installing this link tomorrow and it is a long drive to the site. I just dont want to have it be a problem after I drive 2 1/2 hours back. It is very remote on the dished end but somewhat in a town on the AP end. I've done FSK for years but the EPMP is pretty new to us. Craig
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
SD/CF cards freeze in cold weather :( On May 18, 2015 6:09:07 PM AKDT, Forrest Christian (List Account) li...@packetflux.com wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com
You undervalue yourself. No one else does this. $50/item premium. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:47:24 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com For an extra $5 per mount, I will give you a COC stating that the mount has been tested and has been found to conform to safe and legal operation limits at the specific frequency and bandwith of operation. Be sure to include the power levels and modulation formats upon request. From: Lewis Bergman Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 2:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com I refuse to use a mount not certified for my intended frequency. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Fixed it. I had given three different tower mounts a frequency of 10.7-11.7 GHz. Database queries got confused... From: Sean Heskett Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:35 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Broken website wbmfg.com Yeah it's been that way for a while :( On Sunday, May 17, 2015, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: blockquote Someone broke the Products menu =( Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 /blockquote
Re: [AFMUG] AirRouter firmware
I have: 02/13/2012 02:33 PM 6,842,240 XM-v5.3.5.build11245.bin 02/13/2012 02:33 PM 5,920,078 XM-v5.4.5.build11242.bin 03/15/2013 11:42 AM 6,896,741 XM-v5.5.4.build16501.bin 06/04/2013 02:57 PM 6,896,765 XM-v5.5.6.build17762.bin 01/23/2014 01:34 PM 6,896,682 XM-v5.5.8.build20795.bin 03/06/2014 10:14 AM 6,896,830 XM-v5.5.8.build20991.bin 04/10/2012 12:34 PM 6,472,831 XM-v5.5.build12536.bin 11/28/2014 07:52 PM 6,896,723 XM.v5.5.10.24241.141001.1649.bin Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Glen Waldrop gwl...@cngwireless.net wrote: If you can't find an archive to download from let me know. I've got quite a bit of old firmware. - Original Message - *From:* CARL PETERSON cpeter...@portnetworks.com *To:* af@afmug.com *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2015 1:37 PM *Subject:* [AFMUG] AirRouter firmware Does anyone have standard UBNT Airrouter firmware they can send me? Something after XM.v5.5.2 but before 5.5.8. I’,m getting a bad image message when trying to update. Looking for something intermediate. Thanks, Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
That probe is a lot warmer than the enclosure. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Ok, but Forrest is using all industrial components that are rated to -40C. Are you saying he should add a resistor just to pre-heat the SD slot? ...ok maybe you're on to something there. How about that Forrest? Would a 10cent resistor and 2 minute pre-boot warmup eliminate any issue? On 5/18/2015 10:37 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: You could get around that by putting a heater on board to warm up the components, like the epmp has. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: The danger you have to consider is a cold start, such as if the power was off for awhile. On 5/18/2015 10:32 PM, George Skorup wrote: This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
I would agree with George’s numbers. Some of our smaller enclosures don’t have much thermal mass or internal heating. With the crazy weather extremes, we could conceivably get down to –25F inside the box for a day, especially the ones we purposely put on the north side of a grain bin to shield them from the summer sun. My question would be, what happens if it gets that cold? Lose some data? Lose the firmware? Permanently damage the device? I could live with some data loss as a result of a record temperature day. But I wouldn’t want to go out and replace a failed unit when it’s that cold. From: George Skorup Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 9:32 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
Re: [AFMUG] AirRouter firmware
If you ever need a specific version, you can email supp...@ubnt.com and they'll send it to you. We generally only post the latest on our downloads section now, due to security updates, etc. Let me know which version you need, and can send to you if someone else hasn't already. -Matt On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I have: 02/13/2012 02:33 PM 6,842,240 XM-v5.3.5.build11245.bin 02/13/2012 02:33 PM 5,920,078 XM-v5.4.5.build11242.bin 03/15/2013 11:42 AM 6,896,741 XM-v5.5.4.build16501.bin 06/04/2013 02:57 PM 6,896,765 XM-v5.5.6.build17762.bin 01/23/2014 01:34 PM 6,896,682 XM-v5.5.8.build20795.bin 03/06/2014 10:14 AM 6,896,830 XM-v5.5.8.build20991.bin 04/10/2012 12:34 PM 6,472,831 XM-v5.5.build12536.bin 11/28/2014 07:52 PM 6,896,723 XM.v5.5.10.24241.141001.1649.bin Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Glen Waldrop gwl...@cngwireless.net wrote: If you can't find an archive to download from let me know. I've got quite a bit of old firmware. - Original Message - *From:* CARL PETERSON cpeter...@portnetworks.com *To:* af@afmug.com *Sent:* Monday, May 18, 2015 1:37 PM *Subject:* [AFMUG] AirRouter firmware Does anyone have standard UBNT Airrouter firmware they can send me? Something after XM.v5.5.2 but before 5.5.8. I’,m getting a bad image message when trying to update. Looking for something intermediate. Thanks, Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707
Re: [AFMUG] 15 mile EPMP link 2.4
Hi Craig, I would suggest that you use the link planner software located in support section of Cambium site. It will give you the best info you can in regards to your link. You can also play what if We don't do much with 2.4ghz (too much noise), mostly 5ghz, for a 15 mile link in 5ghz, we would use 3ft dishes for best performance, 2ft dish would work too. ... not sure what size of dish you were planning to use with your 2.4. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Craig House cr...@totalhighspeed.net To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 7:57:14 PM Subject: [AFMUG] 15 mile EPMP link 2.4 Anyone have an idea what kind of reliability/ signal I might see from a 15 mile EPMP 2.4 link Dished at 150' on a tower to a 90 degree sector at 255' on the other end? I have limited experience with the EPMP stuff but so far it is performing well. We even had a 7 mile shot without a dish for a short time that was -72 but we went ahead and dished it. I am installing this link tomorrow and it is a long drive to the site. I just dont want to have it be a problem after I drive 2 1/2 hours back. It is very remote on the dished end but somewhat in a town on the AP end. I've done FSK for years but the EPMP is pretty new to us. Craig
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
Yeah, that is why I mentioned that it was the internal site monitor temperature. Forrest knows almost exactly how far off it is from the ambient temperature. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:28 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: That probe is a lot warmer than the enclosure. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On May 18, 2015 10:23 PM, Jeremy jeremysmi...@gmail.com wrote: The coldest that I saw INSIDE our enclosures this year (accordint to SiteMonitor internal temperature) was 0-C (32-F). Last year was much colder but back then I was using the APC for temperature and backup, and that graph data has all been deleted. I can't say for sure if the temperature in the box was lower, but I doubt it would go too far below 32 with all the equipment and batteries in the boxes. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't the simple answer be to offer the device and SD card as separate items? Then on your site you say, If you want to have storage with the same industrial temperature range as the rest of my product line then buy this card, or supply your own at your own risk. Everybody selling fiber to the radio with an SFP slot does it that way. I always buy their SFP module. On 5/18/2015 10:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot). I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./ Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com mailto:forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.packetflux.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Enclosure low temperature
You could get around that by putting a heater on board to warm up the components, like the epmp has. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Adam Moffett dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: The danger you have to consider is a cold start, such as if the power was off for awhile. On 5/18/2015 10:32 PM, George Skorup wrote: This winter was pretty cold. For about a week straight in the middle of January and again in February, I had a few base units reporting under 0F every night. And I know the outside air temp was -20 to -25F. Obviously take the base unit's temp reading with a grain of salt because it's clearly generating some internal heat. I would bet inside the enclosures it was easily -15F. But I think your -13F is probably OK. On 5/18/2015 9:09 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: What is the lowest temperature that each of you would normally expect to see in your enclosures? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in the process of developing up a few new products. To date, all of the packetflux products are designed with components rated -40 to +85C (I.E way cold to way hot).I'd like to retain this rating, but I'm running into a minor snag: For storage, I'm planning on integrating a SD card (probably microSD) in a socket. I only need a GB or so, and SD card memory is inexpensive at that range. Unfortunately, all the reasonably priced SD cards are only rated down to about -25C or -13F. which are about ~$3 in qty. Industrial temperature range ones which are good down to -40C/F are available but they add at least $30 to the cost for non-name brand, and even more for known brands. When you're talking about a $100 end-user price, a $30 1GB SD card seems excessive - and probably isn't even possible if I want to meet the $100 price with some margin. So, I'm currently playing the 'what options do I have' game. I hate to ship a product only rated down to -25C/-13F, but I know for at least a large chunk of my customer base they never see below this temperature, especially when you add a watt of power dissipation in the case with the device. Which leads me back to my original question: What's the lowest temperature most people would expect to see inside their enclosures. -- *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.* Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian http://facebook.com/packetflux http://twitter.com/@packetflux
Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Splicing
Back from the dead! If anyone was still looking for a source for these I have found them sold at discountlowvoltage.com in packs of 200. On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote: There are 110 patch cables. If you need to field terminate your own, use something like this: http://www.showmecables.com/product/ICC-4-Pair-110-Style-Field-Temination-Plugs.aspx *From:* Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com *Sent:* Friday, February 20, 2015 5:06 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Splicing If you have to, you can strip it and kinda wire wrap around the 110 slot and then attempt to kinda punch it down. *From:* Eric Kuhnke e...@kuhnke-international.com *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2015 2:38 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Splicing Stranded cable just doesn't punch down on standard 110-type teeth at all, it'll always be bad results. Eric kuhnkee...@kuhnke-international.com Sierra Leone (Africell): +232-88-284222 Sierra Leone (Airtel) +232-79-107461 Ghana (MTN): +233-5478-81863 Iridium: +1-480-768-2500 followed by 8816-234-59301 Vancouver: +1-604-783-3317 Skype: erickuhnke On 2/19/15 8:09 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: You know the more that I think about this, I'm thinking you're right. There are 7 different boxes of cable next to me, and none of them are stranded. The dozens of pre-made patch cables from 0.5ft to 50ft above them though are all stranded. I can't imagine trying to punch down a stranded cable :) -- Josh Reynolds CIO, SPITwSPOTSwww.spitwspots.com On 02/19/2015 10:38 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I don’t think that’s right. Stranded should only be used for patch cords which need to withstand flexing, otherwise all cable both indoors and out should be solid. Not to say there aren’t homeowners who have pulled a 50 ft patch cord from Best Buy through their walls, but you should very rarely encounter stranded cable in permanent wiring. *From:* Josh Reynolds j...@spitwspots.com *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2015 1:24 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Splicing Depends on what market you are in. If you're in general IT doing things indoors, it's normally stranded. Most outdoor stuff I've seen is solid. (side note: f@#k stranded CatX) -- Josh Reynolds CIO, SPITwSPOTSwww.spitwspots.com On 02/19/2015 09:07 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote: Would that work for Cat6 end to end splicing? I forget if Cat5e and Cat6 cable are usually solid core. *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2015 10:53 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Splicing He might have been talking about the ScotchLok U1R They take a pair and splice to another pair. You can keep them twisted right up until they go into the connector On 2/19/2015 11:23 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote: We’ve been using these – the are bit less that the Bulgin and work as well: http://www.vpi.us/wtp-rj45-coupler.html Not sure how I feel about using crimp splice but if they are reliable I might try it *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Muehleisen *Sent:* Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:03 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cat5 Splicing Look up 3M ScotchLok. Our guys use them all the time. I once used them to splice together a 300ft. CAT5 cable running up the tower that was cut at the base by a tower climber. Worked great for temporary use. On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Jay Weekley par...@cyberbroadband.net wrote: I was curious about that product as well. Nate Burke wrote: I emailed him directly, but didn't hear back. Thought maybe he'd see it on the list. Nate On 2/19/2015 10:54 AM, Jay Weekley wrote: Wasn't it the guy that toured Sterling's facility with us? I didn't get his card but I think Jay Fuller did. Nate Burke wrote: I wouldn't use the pictured one either, but supposedly there is a product like this, but specific for Cat5/6 where the pair go into the connector. It would replace doing a punchdown splice block or RJ45 coupler. On 2/19/2015 10:50 AM, That One Guy wrote: we have come across a few customer splices using the redcaps, if theyre going to splice themselves, at least theyre using a quality product to do it wrong On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: There's a shielded one at Mouser. I would never use what's in that picture for ethernet. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 19, 2015 11:42 AM, Nate Burke n...@blastcomm.com mailto:n...@blastcomm.com wrote: Do you have a partnumber/distributor? On 2/19/2015 10:40 AM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
