Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Stefan Englhardt]

SAF Integra. Never had a failure. But 24GHz ...

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ryan Ray  
Datum: 13.08.2016  03:32  (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[George Skorup]

All I'm gonna say is, our 1 mile link went down again today for a couple 
minutes. Had a 2.5 mile link down for about a half hour. Granted, 
there's like 2 feet of water in the ditches. It was pouring for like 
four hours straight.


On 8/12/2016 8:49 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Any of them should be solid at that distance.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Ryan Ray" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 8:45:11 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

1.2km link

Sent while mobile


On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Jon Langeler > wrote:


AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency...

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray mailto:ryan...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put
up an airfiber with some of the stuff I've seen online.

Sent while mobile


On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Trango probably


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray
mailto:ryan...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio
which one would it be? I've got a site it needs to go
on but very un accessible location without lots of
money involved.

Thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Ryan Ray]

Definitely need over 100Mb. Looks like the SAF only has 100Mb port on it. My 
biggest concern is hardware failure. While it's possible to replace a dead 
radio on one end its going to be a nice chunk of change to do it. Id rather 
spend that money up front now on the radio side instead of a year down the line 
when and if it dies and pay to the tower company to climb.


Sent while mobile


> On Aug 12, 2016, at 7:08 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> How much throughput and how challenging is the RF path?  It sounds like you 
> are looking for rock solid hardware and software, as opposed to the most 
> throughput and the least rain fade on a long link?  Also it sounds like it 
> can’t be too expensive.
>  
> Maybe look at SAF CFIP 106 or Freemile.  Not sure how Lumina/Integra compare 
> on price.  But I have a 24 GHz CFIP 106 that’s been up for something like 5 
> years, I’ve never touched it, I’m not sure I even remember how to log into 
> it.  Only comment would be put some anti-seize on the stainless threads.
>  
> That said, for shorter links, the new Trango radios look interesting – at 
> least on paper.
>  
>  
> From: Ryan Ray
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:37 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>  
> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
> with some of the stuff I've seen online.
> 
> Sent while mobile
>  
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Trango probably
>>  
>>  
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>  
>>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
>>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without 
>>> lots of money involved. 
>>>  
>>> Thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[David Milholen]

Yeaah.. NOoo :)

Give them Huges Net Number  LOL



On 8/12/2016 7:23 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Potential customers send stuff like this:


Visitor: 

Email Address: x...@gmail.com

Phone Number: 8155175XXX 

Message: I need a new internet connection high speed 100Mbps 
unlimited. Address is  ct unit XXX Dekalb il 60115
Please give me a reasonable quite. I currently have a Comcast 
connection and if you guys could give me a lower rate and a better 
service I will switch to you




I'll get right on that.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 5:13:24 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

When customers get shut off for nonpayment and call in with a long 
list of excuses, why am I reminded of the John Belushi / Carrie Fisher 
scene from Blues Brothers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE
(except they can't flash puppy dog eyes and be forgiven)



--

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[David Milholen]

Exactly Seth,

We are not here to satisfy the entire population on earth. That is what 
separates us from the rest.


So, If you like paying superior high prices for lower crappy 
connectivity then more power to ya :)




On 8/12/2016 7:41 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 8/12/16 17:23, Mike Hammett wrote:



Message: I need a new internet connection high speed 100Mbps unlimited.
Address is  ct unit XXX Dekalb il 60115
Please give me a reasonable quite. I currently have a Comcast connection
and if you guys could give me a lower rate and a better service I will
switch to you




I had someone actually show up at my office (we don't run a visit our 
office kind of office) to discuss with me how bad their current WISP 
was and how it was hurting their business. If I could give them a 
better price for better speeds and an SLA they'd switch to me. Then 
they said currently paid $29/month so that was the price to beat. I 
declined as politely as I could but what I really wanted to say was 
enjoy your crappy WISP because you're getting exactly what you're 
willing to pay for.


Then there was a guy that was all "your competitors does this" and 
"your competitors do that" to everything and eventually I said this is 
what we do, we're not our competitors so if you want what they do then 
just use them.


~Seth


--

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Ken Hohhof]

I think the new one is called StrataPro?

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

Your belief is incorrect. Leave the KPP and Powercode booths.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:43:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio


I believe there's only one - Stratalink.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  Which Trango?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Josh Luthman" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:33:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio


  Trango probably



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots 
of money involved.  

Thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Ken Hohhof]

How much throughput and how challenging is the RF path?  It sounds like you are 
looking for rock solid hardware and software, as opposed to the most throughput 
and the least rain fade on a long link?  Also it sounds like it can’t be too 
expensive.

Maybe look at SAF CFIP 106 or Freemile.  Not sure how Lumina/Integra compare on 
price.  But I have a 24 GHz CFIP 106 that’s been up for something like 5 years, 
I’ve never touched it, I’m not sure I even remember how to log into it.  Only 
comment would be put some anti-seize on the stainless threads.

That said, for shorter links, the new Trango radios look interesting – at least 
on paper.


From: Ryan Ray 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
with some of the stuff I've seen online.

Sent while mobile 


On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:


  Trango probably


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots 
of money involved.  

Thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Ryan Ray]

Lol josh I remember when that was a thing. I'm hoping the AF is past that at 
this point.

Sent while mobile


> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:54 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> What if the radome falls off?
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2016 9:49 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>> Any of them should be solid at that distance.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Ryan Ray" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:45:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>> 
>> 1.2km link
>> 
>> Sent while mobile
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Jon Langeler  wrote:
>> 
>> AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency...
>> 
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>> 
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>> 
>> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
>> with some of the stuff I've seen online.
>> 
>> Sent while mobile
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Trango probably
>> 
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
>>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without 
>>> lots of money involved. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Luthman]

In Utah?  Doubt it.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 12, 2016 9:59 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Did a wallaby knock it off?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 8:54:24 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>
> What if the radome falls off?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Aug 12, 2016 9:49 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> Any of them should be solid at that distance.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Ryan Ray" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 8:45:11 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>>
>> 1.2km link
>>
>> Sent while mobile
>>
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Jon Langeler 
>> wrote:
>>
>> AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency...
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>
>> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an
>> airfiber with some of the stuff I've seen online.
>>
>> Sent while mobile
>>
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Trango probably
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>
>>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
>>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
>>> lots of money involved.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Mike Hammett]

Did a wallaby knock it off? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:54:24 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


What if the radome falls off? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 


On Aug 12, 2016 9:49 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Any of them should be solid at that distance. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ryan Ray" < ryan...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:45:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


1.2km link 

Sent while mobile 



On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Jon Langeler < jon-ispli...@michwave.net > wrote: 





AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency... 


Jon Langeler 
Michwave Technologies, Inc. 

On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 





That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
with some of the stuff I've seen online. 

Sent while mobile 



On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 





Trango probably 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 



If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? I've 
got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots of 
money involved. 


Thanks. 

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[Ken Hohhof]

Women can probably relate to this.  It's like the guys who say my mom does 
this, my mom does that, and they want to say then marry your mom.



-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

On 8/12/16 17:23, Mike Hammett wrote:



Message: I need a new internet connection high speed 100Mbps unlimited.
Address is  ct unit XXX Dekalb il 60115
Please give me a reasonable quite. I currently have a Comcast connection
and if you guys could give me a lower rate and a better service I will
switch to you




I had someone actually show up at my office (we don't run a visit our
office kind of office) to discuss with me how bad their current WISP was
and how it was hurting their business. If I could give them a better
price for better speeds and an SLA they'd switch to me. Then they said
currently paid $29/month so that was the price to beat. I declined as
politely as I could but what I really wanted to say was enjoy your
crappy WISP because you're getting exactly what you're willing to pay for.

Then there was a guy that was all "your competitors does this" and "your
competitors do that" to everything and eventually I said this is what we
do, we're not our competitors so if you want what they do then just use
them.

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Luthman]

What if the radome falls off?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Aug 12, 2016 9:49 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Any of them should be solid at that distance.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ryan Ray" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 8:45:11 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>
> 1.2km link
>
> Sent while mobile
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
> AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency...
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
> On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an
> airfiber with some of the stuff I've seen online.
>
> Sent while mobile
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Trango probably
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
>> lots of money involved.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] netonix switch

[Jay Weekley]

Just re-terminated the cable going into Chuck's Gig-E surge suppressor.  
Weather delayed further troubleshooting.


CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
running the latest release candidate.  we had a 24 port switch but it 
was actually too large to fit into our cabinent (whoops)
we still have it but it is now back at the office.  we had it "rigged" 
and it did two mimosa links at 1 gig without incident for at least two 
months (aside from the lightning strike that happened about a month 
after we instaled it and it burnt out port 1)
that being said - we've converted to two ws-12-250s.  Mainly the first 
switch is powered - a mix of mimosa, ubnt ac, cambium epmp, and random 
ubnt.  one mimosa (which linked at 1 gig in the 24 port netonix) is 
now only linking at 100 meg and is showing a cable problem.   it is 
possible the cable was damaged in rerouting 24+ cables in the cabinent.
additionally 1 EPMP radio which was added yesterday (and was plugged 
into a legacy 10/100 dlink switch) is now being powered by the 
ws-12-250 and is showing a cable problem and is down.  Three other 
epmp 2.4's are working fine linked at one gig.
i suspect cable damage.  but we want to look at all options.   i'll 
let mr. weekley chime in on any troubleshooting he has done as i've 
been asleep most of the day since this is one of our heaviest sites 
and i did the switchover between 1:30 am and 5:30 am this morning.


- Original Message -
*From:* Jeff Evans 
*To:* memb...@wispa.org 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 6:32 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA Members] netonix switch

Make sure you're on the current FW version.

What model switch, some still do funky things.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Jay Weekley mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
Date: 8/12/16 7:12 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: memb...@wispa.org 
Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] netonix switch

Also, has anyone installed a Netonix and seen more than cable
suddenly
show errors (on it's cable test ) and either link at 100 megabit
instead
a gig OR not work at all?

CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
> Kind of used to the mikrotik - i don't mind the data talleys -
but is
> there anyway to configure the ui to give a real time data readout
> similar to mikrotik? Thanks :)
>
>
> ___
> Members mailing list
> memb...@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members

___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members


___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Mike Hammett]

Any of them should be solid at that distance. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ryan Ray"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:45:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


1.2km link 

Sent while mobile 



On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Jon Langeler < jon-ispli...@michwave.net > wrote: 





AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency... 


Jon Langeler 
Michwave Technologies, Inc. 

On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 





That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
with some of the stuff I've seen online. 

Sent while mobile 



On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 





Trango probably 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 



If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? I've 
got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots of 
money involved. 


Thanks. 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Luthman]

Oh I guess there's Stratalink and Stratapro, picky picky picky.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Your belief is incorrect. Leave the KPP and Powercode booths.  ;-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 8:43:15 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>
> I believe there's only one - Stratalink.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Which Trango?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 8:33:58 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>>
>> Trango probably
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>
>>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
>>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
>>> lots of money involved.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Ryan Ray]

1.2km link

Sent while mobile


> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Jon Langeler  wrote:
> 
> AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency...
> 
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>> 
>> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
>> with some of the stuff I've seen online.
>> 
>> Sent while mobile
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Trango probably
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
 On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
 If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
 I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without 
 lots of money involved. 
 
 Thanks.
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Mike Hammett]

Your belief is incorrect. Leave the KPP and Powercode booths. ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:43:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


I believe there's only one - Stratalink. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Which Trango? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:33:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


Trango probably 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 



If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? I've 
got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots of 
money involved. 


Thanks. 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Jon Langeler]

AF24 is solid. Don't use 24GHz like its a much lower frequency...

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

> On Aug 12, 2016, at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
> 
> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
> with some of the stuff I've seen online.
> 
> Sent while mobile
> 
> 
>> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Trango probably
>> 
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
>>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without 
>>> lots of money involved. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Luthman]

I believe there's only one - Stratalink.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Which Trango?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 8:33:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>
> Trango probably
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
>> lots of money involved.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Luthman]

750 fdx more if you XPIC

https://www.trangosys.com/products/stratalink-24/


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> What is the throughput of Trango vs UBNT?
>
> *From:* Ryan Ray 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio
>
> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an
> airfiber with some of the stuff I've seen online.
>
> Sent while mobile
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Trango probably
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
>> lots of money involved.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Mike Hammett]

Which Trango? 

UBNT has max speeds of 750 and 1G (different products). 

Trango has max speeds of ~700 and 4G (different products). 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:40:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 




What is the throughput of Trango vs UBNT? 




From: Ryan Ray 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:37 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
with some of the stuff I've seen online. 

Sent while mobile 


On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 





Trango probably 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 



If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? I've 
got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots of 
money involved. 

Thanks. 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Baird]

Well, we have had multiple AF-24 links that haven't flinched in 2-3yrs.



On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an
> airfiber with some of the stuff I've seen online.
>
> Sent while mobile
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Trango probably
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
>> lots of money involved.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Mike Hammett]

The engineering is very important. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ryan Ray"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:32:23 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? I've 
got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots of 
money involved. 


Thanks. 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Mike Hammett]

Which Trango? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 8:33:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio 


Trango probably 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 



If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? I've 
got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots of 
money involved. 


Thanks. 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Chuck McCown]

What is the throughput of Trango vs UBNT?

From: Ryan Ray 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
with some of the stuff I've seen online.

Sent while mobile 


On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:


  Trango probably


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without lots 
of money involved.  

Thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Luthman]

I'm thinking more along the lines of RF capability, while it might not give
you 100% throughput all the time it'll give you some throughput where other
products might lose link caused by fade.  Even if it's 1db of improvement,
reliability is the key factor here...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an
> airfiber with some of the stuff I've seen online.
>
> Sent while mobile
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Trango probably
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
>> lots of money involved.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Ryan Ray]

That's what I was thinking as well. I'm super hesitant to put up an airfiber 
with some of the stuff I've seen online.

Sent while mobile


> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> Trango probably
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be? 
>> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without 
>> lots of money involved. 
>> 
>> Thanks.
> 

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Baird]

AF-24 has always been rock solid for us.

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
> lots of money involved.
>
> Thanks.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Josh Luthman]

Trango probably


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
> I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
> lots of money involved.
>
> Thanks.
>
>

[AFMUG] 24GHz Radio

[Ryan Ray]

If you were to pick the most RELIABLE 24GHz radio which one would it be?
I've got a site it needs to go on but very un accessible location without
lots of money involved.

Thanks.

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[Ken Hohhof]

Hahaha, and probably 6 NIU students renting an old house, so they will actually 
max out the 100 meg, then cancel in 9 months.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

Potential customers send stuff like this:


Visitor: 

Email Address: x...@gmail.com

Phone Number: 8155175XXX

Message: I need a new internet connection high speed 100Mbps unlimited. Address 
is  ct unit XXX Dekalb il 60115
Please give me a reasonable quite. I currently have a Comcast connection and if 
you guys could give me a lower rate and a better service I will switch to you



I'll get right on that.






-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 5:13:24 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...


When customers get shut off for nonpayment and call in with a long list of 
excuses, why am I reminded of the John Belushi / Carrie Fisher scene from Blues 
Brothers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE

(except they can't flash puppy dog eyes and be forgiven)

[AFMUG] netonix switch

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

running the latest release candidate.  we had a 24 port switch but it was 
actually too large to fit into our cabinent (whoops)
we still have it but it is now back at the office.  we had it "rigged" and it 
did two mimosa links at 1 gig without incident for at least two months (aside 
from the lightning strike that happened about a month after we instaled it and 
it burnt out port 1)

that being said - we've converted to two ws-12-250s.  Mainly the first switch 
is powered - a mix of mimosa, ubnt ac, cambium epmp, and random ubnt.  one 
mimosa (which linked at 1 gig in the 24 port netonix) is now only linking at 
100 meg and is showing a cable problem.   it is possible the cable was damaged 
in rerouting 24+ cables in the cabinent.

additionally 1 EPMP radio which was added yesterday (and was plugged into a 
legacy 10/100 dlink switch) is now being powered by the ws-12-250 and is 
showing a cable problem and is down.  Three other epmp 2.4's are working fine 
linked at one gig.

i suspect cable damage.  but we want to look at all options.   i'll let mr. 
weekley chime in on any troubleshooting he has done as i've been asleep most of 
the day since this is one of our heaviest sites and i did the switchover 
between 1:30 am and 5:30 am this morning.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeff Evans 
  To: memb...@wispa.org 
  Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] netonix switch


  Make sure you're on the current FW version.


  What model switch, some still do funky things. 






  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


   Original message 
  From: Jay Weekley  
  Date: 8/12/16 7:12 PM (GMT-05:00) 
  To: memb...@wispa.org 
  Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] netonix switch 


  Also, has anyone installed a Netonix and seen more than cable suddenly 
  show errors (on it's cable test ) and either link at 100 megabit instead 
  a gig OR not work at all?

  CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
  > Kind of used to the mikrotik - i don't mind the data talleys - but is 
  > there anyway to configure the ui to give a real time data readout 
  > similar to mikrotik? Thanks :)
  >
  >
  > ___
  > Members mailing list
  > memb...@wispa.org
  > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members

  ___
  Members mailing list
  memb...@wispa.org
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members



--


  ___
  Members mailing list
  memb...@wispa.org
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[Seth Mattinen]

On 8/12/16 17:23, Mike Hammett wrote:



Message: I need a new internet connection high speed 100Mbps unlimited.
Address is  ct unit XXX Dekalb il 60115
Please give me a reasonable quite. I currently have a Comcast connection
and if you guys could give me a lower rate and a better service I will
switch to you




I had someone actually show up at my office (we don't run a visit our 
office kind of office) to discuss with me how bad their current WISP was 
and how it was hurting their business. If I could give them a better 
price for better speeds and an SLA they'd switch to me. Then they said 
currently paid $29/month so that was the price to beat. I declined as 
politely as I could but what I really wanted to say was enjoy your 
crappy WISP because you're getting exactly what you're willing to pay for.


Then there was a guy that was all "your competitors does this" and "your 
competitors do that" to everything and eventually I said this is what we 
do, we're not our competitors so if you want what they do then just use 
them.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[Mike Hammett]

Potential customers send stuff like this: 


Visitor:  

Email Address:  @gmail.com 

Phone Number: 8155175XXX 

Message: I need a new internet connection high speed 100Mbps unlimited. Address 
is  ct unit XXX Dekalb il 60115 
Please give me a reasonable quite. I currently have a Comcast connection and if 
you guys could give me a lower rate and a better service I will switch to you 



I'll get right on that. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 5:13:24 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ... 




When customers get shut off for nonpayment and call in with a long list of 
excuses, why am I reminded of the John Belushi / Carrie Fisher scene from Blues 
Brothers? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE 

(except they can't flash puppy dog eyes and be forgiven) 

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[Tyson @ Internet Communications Inc (ICI)]

Like my internet "suddenly" has not worked for three months... But I didn't 
call about it until you cut me off

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net
 
Forgive the brevity, the typos and my fat fingers!

> On Aug 12, 2016, at 6:21 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> cause it's 4:55 on a friday? :)
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Ken Hohhof
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 5:13 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...
> 
> When customers get shut off for nonpayment and call in with a long list of 
> excuses, why am I reminded of the John Belushi / Carrie Fisher scene from 
> Blues Brothers?
>  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE
>  
> (except they can't flash puppy dog eyes and be forgiven)

Re: [AFMUG] Items for sale

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Sorry guys. You would think I could manage to reply off list the first time.
I sent it again this time off list.

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Yuchasz
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Items for sale

 

I would be interested in all the force 200. I could also use 4 of the used
1000. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Yent, Timothy M
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 3:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Items for sale

 

I have the following items for sale.  All reasonable offers accepted. 

 

9   New ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz in original box

6   New ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz no box

 

12  Used ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz

12  Used ePMP Force 200 2.4Ghz

 

1  Allot NetEnforcer AC-1440

1  Allot NetEnforcer Bypass

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Items for sale

[Brandon Yuchasz]

I would be interested in all the force 200. I could also use 4 of the used
1000. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

  www.gogebicrange.net

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Yent, Timothy M
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 3:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Items for sale

 

I have the following items for sale.  All reasonable offers accepted. 

 

9   New ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz in original box

6   New ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz no box

 

12  Used ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz

12  Used ePMP Force 200 2.4Ghz

 

1  Allot NetEnforcer AC-1440

1  Allot NetEnforcer Bypass

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] 430 watchdog reset

[Sean Heskett]

What are you using for sync timing?

I've noticed that if an AP nearby looses sync it can cause another AP to
watchdog reset.

-Sean

On Friday, August 12, 2016, Shayne Lebrun  wrote:

> Anybody ever figure out anything exciting about 430 watchdog timeout
> reboots?
>
> **System Startup**
> System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset
> Software Version : CANOPY 13.4.1 AP-DES
> Board Type : P11
> Boot Bank : 0
> Board Temperature : 35 C / 94 F
> Device Setting : 5.7GHz SISO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-38-2a-aa
> 5750.0 MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/8
> FPGA Version : 112211
> FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
> 12/31/2010 : 20:50:20 EDT : : Bridge/OS Core : Idle task starved for 31
> seconds.
> 12/31/2010 : 20:50:20 EDT :
> CPU Utilization (Cur/Max): (95%/100%)
> Total Time : 1976396 us
>
>
>
> I kind of thing maybe it’s just too busy to update the watchdog counter,
> but that’s idle speculation.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

cause it's 4:55 on a friday? :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 5:13 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...


  When customers get shut off for nonpayment and call in with a long list of 
excuses, why am I reminded of the John Belushi / Carrie Fisher scene from Blues 
Brothers?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE

  (except they can't flash puppy dog eyes and be forgiven)

[AFMUG] it wasn't my fault ...

[Ken Hohhof]

When customers get shut off for nonpayment and call in with a long list of 
excuses, why am I reminded of the John Belushi / Carrie Fisher scene from Blues 
Brothers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvujknrBuE

(except they can't flash puppy dog eyes and be forgiven)

Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

[Jaime Solorza]

Of course

On Aug 12, 2016 2:40 PM, "James Howard"  wrote:

> And Tecate
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 3:39 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor
>
>
>
> I enjoy satire.
>
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2016 1:15 PM,  wrote:
>
> Todays column excerpt:
>
> So my friends in Copenhagen are asking, “What’s going on in America that
> you got so crazy so suddenly?” Danes take an interest in us because their
> country is flat and if our emissions melt Greenland, they’ll have to move
> to Norway where the vowels are different and the beer tastes fishy.
>
> I tell them: the Big Snapper is the result of a longstanding American
> dread of meetings. Liberals adore meetings and whenever there is
> uncertainty in the air — salmon or salad for dinner? The Woody Allen movie
> or the documentary on income inequality? — they plop down with their lattes
> and everyone has her or his say, which takes hours and results in a report
> that leads to a task force and then a twoyear study. The Snapper is not big
> on meetings. Short attention span and superior intelligence: Let’s go. Get
> her done. Move on.
>
> The second reason for his nomination is The Fascination of the
> Unthinkable: when the rational fails to satisfy, then why not the
> counterintuitive? If your car won’t start and you don’t know why, push it
> over a cliff and watch it blow up. If you’re tired of the same old same old
> in Washington, why not elect Bob Barker, host of “The Price Is Right”? It’s
> like having a walrus in church Sunday morning. The minister tries to
> explain the parable of the vineyard and the walrus says, “BLEAUGHH.”
> Which one do you remember for weeks afterward?
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: 01000156807adf83-f495695a-5cfc-44f1-831b-fa883405d20a-
> 000...@amazonses.com
>
> Remove
> 
> amazonses.com from my allow list
>
> *You received this message because the domain amazonses.com
>  is on your allow list.*
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

[Ken Hohhof]

What about sarcasm?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/764045345332396032


From: James Howard 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

And Tecate

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 3:39 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

 

I enjoy satire.  

 

On Aug 12, 2016 1:15 PM,  wrote:

Todays column excerpt:

So my friends in Copenhagen are asking, “What’s going on in America that you 
got so crazy so suddenly?” Danes take an interest in us because their country 
is flat and if our emissions melt Greenland, they’ll have to move to Norway 
where the vowels are different and the beer tastes fishy.

I tell them: the Big Snapper is the result of a longstanding American dread of 
meetings. Liberals adore meetings and whenever there is uncertainty in the air 
— salmon or salad for dinner? The Woody Allen movie or the documentary on 
income inequality? — they plop down with their lattes and everyone has her or 
his say, which takes hours and results in a report that leads to a task force 
and then a twoyear study. The Snapper is not big on meetings. Short attention 
span and superior intelligence: Let’s go. Get her done. Move on.

The second reason for his nomination is The Fascination of the Unthinkable: 
when the rational fails to satisfy, then why not the counterintuitive? If your 
car won’t start and you don’t know why, push it over a cliff and watch it blow 
up. If you’re tired of the same old same old in Washington, why not elect Bob 
Barker, host of “The Price Is Right”? It’s like having a walrus in church 
Sunday morning. The minister tries to explain the parable of the vineyard and 
the walrus says, “BLEAUGHH.” Which one do you remember for weeks afterward?




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

[James Howard]

And Tecate

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 3:39 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor


I enjoy satire.

On Aug 12, 2016 1:15 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Todays column excerpt:

So my friends in Copenhagen are asking, “What’s going on in America that you 
got so crazy so suddenly?” Danes take an interest in us because their country 
is flat and if our emissions melt Greenland, they’ll have to move to Norway 
where the vowels are different and the beer tastes fishy.

I tell them: the Big Snapper is the result of a longstanding American dread of 
meetings. Liberals adore meetings and whenever there is uncertainty in the air 
— salmon or salad for dinner? The Woody Allen movie or the documentary on 
income inequality? — they plop down with their lattes and everyone has her or 
his say, which takes hours and results in a report that leads to a task force 
and then a twoyear study. The Snapper is not big on meetings. Short attention 
span and superior intelligence: Let’s go. Get her done. Move on.

The second reason for his nomination is The Fascination of the Unthinkable: 
when the rational fails to satisfy, then why not the counterintuitive? If your 
car won’t start and you don’t know why, push it over a cliff and watch it blow 
up. If you’re tired of the same old same old in Washington, why not elect Bob 
Barker, host of “The Price Is Right”? It’s like having a walrus in church 
Sunday morning. The minister tries to explain the parable of the vineyard and 
the walrus says, “BLEAUGHH.” Which one do you remember for weeks afterward?


Total Control Panel

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From: 
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Remove
 amazonses.com from my allow list



You received this message because the domain amazonses.com is on your allow 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

[Jaime Solorza]

I enjoy satire.

On Aug 12, 2016 1:15 PM,  wrote:

> Todays column excerpt:
>
> So my friends in Copenhagen are asking, “What’s going on in America that
> you got so crazy so suddenly?” Danes take an interest in us because their
> country is flat and if our emissions melt Greenland, they’ll have to move
> to Norway where the vowels are different and the beer tastes fishy.
>
> I tell them: the Big Snapper is the result of a longstanding American
> dread of meetings. Liberals adore meetings and whenever there is
> uncertainty in the air — salmon or salad for dinner? The Woody Allen movie
> or the documentary on income inequality? — they plop down with their lattes
> and everyone has her or his say, which takes hours and results in a report
> that leads to a task force and then a twoyear study. The Snapper is not big
> on meetings. Short attention span and superior intelligence: Let’s go. Get
> her done. Move on.
>
> The second reason for his nomination is The Fascination of the
> Unthinkable: when the rational fails to satisfy, then why not the
> counterintuitive? If your car won’t start and you don’t know why, push it
> over a cliff and watch it blow up. If you’re tired of the same old same
> old in Washington, why not elect Bob Barker, host of “The Price Is Right”?
> It’s like having a walrus in church Sunday morning. The minister tries to
> explain the parable of the vineyard and the walrus says, “BLEAUGHH.”
> Which one do you remember for weeks afterward?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Eric Kuhnke]

https://youtu.be/jTmXHvGZiSY?t=30

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Unfortunately it's like 500 billion for search and 50 billion for youtube
> and 5 billion for android...   Still billions are great numbers but you
> have to consider that Google spends money like it's rain...
>
> On 08/12/2016 12:33 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>> Didn't the previous email say there were only 3 money makers?
>> Android, search engine, and Youtube?
>> $555 billion isn't bad for three money makers. LOL
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:30 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/10/investing/google-alphabet-al
>> l-time-high/
>>
>> "Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
>> all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
>> worth $555 billion."
>>
>> "The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
>> envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
>> 15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.
>>
>> That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
>> Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
>> billion in 2017."
>>
>> So, that may take awhile there Robert.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Robert Andrews
>> mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>>  > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
>> company..
>>  > They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
>> they will
>>  > eventually go down because of it...
>>  >
>>  > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I
>> can tell you
>>  >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on
>> the
>>  >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole
>> owners (read
>>  >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot
>> more of the
>>  >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San
>> Jose and San
>>  >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money
>> than Google
>>  >> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
>> cities would
>>  >> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
>> much existing
>>  >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
>> think Google
>>  >> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had
>> with the
>>  >> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
>> (Like Kansas
>>  >> City did).
>>  >>
>>  >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and
>> permit their
>>  >> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
>> pre-sign ups
>>  >> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
>> problem in
>>  >> planning construction especially with underground deployment.
>> This also
>>  >> drove up costs.
>>  >>
>>  >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you
>> will see from
>>  >> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark
>> fiber,
>>  >> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems
>> where they can.
>>  >> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
>> construction
>>  >> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
>> wireless to
>>  >> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
>> MDU cases.
>>  >> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
>> makes it risky
>>  >> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge
>> take rate
>>  >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
>> capacity short
>>  >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
>> spectrum,
>>  >> interference and capacity.
>>  >>
>>  >> While we all would think Google is a great company with
>> resources to do
>>  >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot
>> from the
>>  >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings
>> with ADD and
>>  >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older
>> folks are too
>>  >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking
>> about. Google is
>>  >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
>> people, tools
>>  >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders
>> and they have
>>  >> a dangerous habit of believing their own 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

Unfortunately it's like 500 billion for search and 50 billion for 
youtube and 5 billion for android...   Still billions are great numbers 
but you have to consider that Google spends money like it's rain...


On 08/12/2016 12:33 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

Didn't the previous email say there were only 3 money makers?
Android, search engine, and Youtube?
$555 billion isn't bad for three money makers. LOL

- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Reynolds 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:30 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/10/investing/google-alphabet-all-time-high/

"Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
worth $555 billion."

"The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.

That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
billion in 2017."

So, that may take awhile there Robert.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Robert Andrews
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
 > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
company..
 > They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
they will
 > eventually go down because of it...
 >
 > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
 >>
 >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I
can tell you
 >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
 >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole
owners (read
 >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot
more of the
 >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San
Jose and San
 >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money
than Google
 >> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
cities would
 >> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
much existing
 >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
think Google
 >> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had
with the
 >> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
(Like Kansas
 >> City did).
 >>
 >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and
permit their
 >> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
pre-sign ups
 >> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
problem in
 >> planning construction especially with underground deployment.
This also
 >> drove up costs.
 >>
 >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you
will see from
 >> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
 >> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems
where they can.
 >> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
construction
 >> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
wireless to
 >> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
MDU cases.
 >> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
makes it risky
 >> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge
take rate
 >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
capacity short
 >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
spectrum,
 >> interference and capacity.
 >>
 >> While we all would think Google is a great company with
resources to do
 >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot
from the
 >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings
with ADD and
 >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older
folks are too
 >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking
about. Google is
 >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
people, tools
 >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders
and they have
 >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are
not real
 >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
 >>
 >> Thank You,
 >> Brian Webster
 >> www.wirelessmapping.com 
 >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com 
 >>
 >> -Original Message-
 >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 >> Sent: We

Re: [AFMUG] Linux TCP flaw lets 'anyone' hijack Internet traffic

[Josh Reynolds]

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5961 is the proper RFC

It had not been adopted into OSX or Windows as of yet, but it did make
it into Android.

It was implemented in the Linux 3.6+ kernel.


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Matt  wrote:
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-tcp-flaw-lets-anyone-hijack-internet-traffic/

[AFMUG] Linux TCP flaw lets 'anyone' hijack Internet traffic

[Matt]

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-tcp-flaw-lets-anyone-hijack-internet-traffic/

Re: [AFMUG] Items for sale

[Josh Baird]

Are these GPS sync units?

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Yent, Timothy M 
wrote:

> I have the following items for sale.  All reasonable offers accepted.
>
>
>
> 9   *New* ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz in original box
>
> 6   *New* ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz no box
>
>
>
> 12  Used ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz
>
> 12  Used ePMP Force 200 2.4Ghz
>
>
>
> 1  Allot NetEnforcer AC-1440
>
> 1  Allot NetEnforcer Bypass
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Items for sale

[Yent, Timothy M]

I have the following items for sale.  All reasonable offers accepted.

9   New ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz in original box
6   New ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz no box

12  Used ePMP 1000 2.4Ghz
12  Used ePMP Force 200 2.4Ghz

1  Allot NetEnforcer AC-1440
1  Allot NetEnforcer Bypass

Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

[Bill Prince]

Dan Piraro has made it pretty clear he doesn't especially like ol' 
squirrel head.



bp


On 8/12/2016 1:03 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Check out today’s Bizarro.
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 2:15 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor
Todays column excerpt:

So my friends in Copenhagen are asking, “What’s going on in America 
that you got so crazy so suddenly?” Danes take an interest in us 
because their country is flat and if our emissions melt Greenland, 
they’ll have to move to Norway where the vowels are different and the 
beer tastes fishy.


I tell them: the Big Snapper is the result of a longstanding American 
dread of meetings. Liberals adore meetings and whenever there is 
uncertainty in the air — salmon or salad for dinner? The Woody Allen 
movie or the documentary on income inequality? — they plop down with 
their lattes and everyone has her or his say, which takes hours and 
results in a report that leads to a task force and then a twoyear 
study. The Snapper is not big on meetings. Short attention span and 
superior intelligence: Let’s go. Get her done. Move on.


The second reason for his nomination is The Fascination of the 
Unthinkable: when the rational fails to satisfy, then why not the 
counterintuitive? If your car won’t start and you don’t know why, push 
it over a cliff and watchit blow up. If you’re tired of the same old 
same old in Washington, why not elect Bob Barker, host of “The Price 
Is Right”? It’s like having a walrus in church Sunday morning. The 
minister tries to explain the parable of the vineyard and the walrus 
says, “BLEAUGHH.” Which one do you remember for weeks afterward?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

[Ken Hohhof]

Check out today’s Bizarro.

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 2:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

Todays column excerpt:
So my friends in Copenhagen are asking, “What’s going on in America that you 
got so crazy so suddenly?” Danes take an interest in us because their country 
is flat and if our emissions melt Greenland, they’ll have to move to Norway 
where the vowels are different and the beer tastes fishy.

I tell them: the Big Snapper is the result of a longstanding American dread of 
meetings. Liberals adore meetings and whenever there is uncertainty in the air 
— salmon or salad for dinner? The Woody Allen movie or the documentary on 
income inequality? — they plop down with their lattes and everyone has her or 
his say, which takes hours and results in a report that leads to a task force 
and then a twoyear study. The Snapper is not big on meetings. Short attention 
span and superior intelligence: Let’s go. Get her done. Move on.

The second reason for his nomination is The Fascination of the Unthinkable: 
when the rational fails to satisfy, then why not the counterintuitive? If your 
car won’t start and you don’t know why, push it over a cliff and watch it blow 
up. If you’re tired of the same old same old in Washington, why not elect Bob 
Barker, host of “The Price Is Right”? It’s like having a walrus in church 
Sunday morning. The minister tries to explain the parable of the vineyard and 
the walrus says, “BLEAUGHH.” Which one do you remember for weeks afterward?

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Robert Andrews]

A relative has a huge (500K+ people) following on Instagram..  She has 
seen a huge fall off of people as they are no longer the place to be seen...


On 08/12/2016 09:41 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Impossible.  Next he’ll be telling us Sears, KMart, Blockbuster, Radio
Shack and Circuit City are going to die off.  Or that Verizon will buy
AOL and Yahoo.  Now pardon me while I drive to the mall and shop at
Monkey Wards.
*From:* Josh Luthman 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 11:20 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Instagram is about to die off?
 >Alexa rankIncrease 19 (July 2016)
 >Ranked 16th in the US
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are
about to do.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Gino Villarini" mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>>
*To: *"Animal Farm" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like
every app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the
digital evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them
probably don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I
finally stopped paying google and bing and my sales have
gone way up.  Go figure.

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for
20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We
are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that
model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those
resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement,
I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a
dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it
generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is
compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to
Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is,
that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a
typical phd company.. They look at the paper pile before
the experience pile...  & yes they will eventually go
down because of it...

On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber
projects, I can tell you there are a number of
factors that caused them to take pause on the
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist
attitude of pole owners (read competitors to their
broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities
like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of
  

Re: [AFMUG] Blue Silos

[James Howard]

Harvestore brand silos are 5' for each ring.  Typically if they're over 40' or 
so they have the silver rings every 10 from the top but some have those on each 
5' section.  A 100' Harvestore will have 20 rings.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Keefe John
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 2:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Blue Silos

How tall is each ring/section on a blue harvestore silo?

Keefe



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Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Didn't the previous email say there were only 3 money makers?

Android, search engine, and Youtube?

$555 billion isn't bad for three money makers. LOL

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Reynolds 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 7:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/10/investing/google-alphabet-all-time-high/

  "Shares of Google parent company Alphabet (GOOGL, Tech30) hit an
  all-time high Tuesday of more than $813 a share. The company is now
  worth $555 billion."

  "The company is still growing at a rate that would make most companies
  envious. Analysts are forecasting that profits will increase more than
  15% this year and that sales will be up 20%.

  That's truly remarkable when you consider just how colossal Google is.
  Sales are expected to top $88.5 billion this year and exceed $100
  billion in 2017."

  So, that may take awhile there Robert.

  On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Robert Andrews  
wrote:
  > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company..
  > They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will
  > eventually go down because of it...
  >
  > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  >>
  >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you
  >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
  >> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners 
(read
  >> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
  >> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
  >> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than 
Google
  >> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities 
would
  >> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
  >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google
  >> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
  >> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
  >> City did).
  >>
  >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
  >> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups
  >> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
  >> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
  >> drove up costs.
  >>
  >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from
  >> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
  >> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they 
can.
  >> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction
  >> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
  >> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
  >> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky
  >> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
  >> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short
  >> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
  >> interference and capacity.
  >>
  >> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
  >> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
  >> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
  >> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are 
too
  >> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google 
is
  >> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
  >> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they 
have
  >> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
  >> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
  >>
  >> Thank You,
  >> Brian Webster
  >> www.wirelessmapping.com
  >> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
  >> To: af@afmug.com
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >>
  >> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel through
  >> the eye of a needle.
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Josh Reynolds
  >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 11:04 AM
  >> To: af@afmug.com
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
  >>
  >> So, I get it. You guys are sitting around feeling so smug with your WISP.
  >>
  >> We're talking about one of the largest and most powerful companies in the
  >> world though. Do you really think they don't have some of the best RF
  >> engineering talent in the world on their payroll?
  >>
  >> They're not doing any

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

People hated Microsoft in the 90s for this.
I thought that is just what tech was supposed todo

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 5:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money.  Now Gmail kind of does 
but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product).

  They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a 
company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the intention of 
destroying other companies business.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look
at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be
hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well.

They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards,
drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret
projects / labs) will.

Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects,
so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business
strategy.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Who is we?  I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all the
> cancelled projects.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster"  wrote:
>>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell 
you
>> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
>> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners 
(read
>> competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the
>> project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San
>> Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than 
Google
>> budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities 
would
>> remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much 
existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
Google
>> thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the
>> first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas
>> City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their
>> networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups
>> (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in
>> planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also
>> drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from
>> them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
>> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they 
can.
>> They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high 
construction
>> cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
>> basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases.
>> Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it 
risky
>> to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate
>> within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity 
short
>> hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
>> interference and capacity.
>>
>> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
>> whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
>> inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD 
and
>> too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are 
too
>> far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. 
Google is
>> certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools
>> and skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they 
have
>> a dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real
>> good at listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input.
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> They may have great RF engineers, but you still cannot fit a camel 
through
>> the eye of a 

Re: [AFMUG] Blue Silos

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

5.5-6' one the ones around here.




Jim Bouse

Owner

Brazos WiFi

979-985-5912

j...@brazoswifi.com


 Original message 
From: Keefe John 
Date: 08/12/2016 2:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Blue Silos

How tall is each ring/section on a blue harvestore silo?

Keefe

Re: [AFMUG] Access Both Sides of Downed Link Using OSPF?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Worked with Butch Evans, this is how our ospf is configured (i do believe)
I know our radios are .6 and .10

  - Original Message - 
  From: Cassidy B. Larson 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 4:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Access Both Sides of Downed Link Using OSPF?


  A lot of times we want to login to side “B” when the link between A and B is 
down…but we can’t unless each side is advertised as a /30..but I want the two 
radio’s to see each other when they’re up. 


  So what I’ve done most recently is:
  .1 = Router A (configured as /30)
  .2 = Radio A (configured as /29, GW set to .1)
  .5 = Radio B (configured as /29 GW set to .6)
  .6 = Router B (configured as /30)


  Then I just run OSPF on a separate /30 across that path on a separate VLAN.  
The above is just for MGMT of the radios. 






On Aug 11, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Christopher Gray  
wrote:


How do you setup radio addresses so both ends of a link can be accessed 
(via loop) when the link is down?


What I've been doing... and how it doesn't work:
I've been setting up OSPF links using a /29. 


Router A -- Radio A ~~ Radio B -- Router B


Devices get addresses:
  a.. .1 - Router A
  b.. .2 - Router B
  c.. .3 - Radio A (Gateway set to .1)
  d.. .4 - Radio B (Gateway set to .2)
  e.. .5 - Spare (used when swapping links)
  f.. .6 - Spare (used when swapping links)
This feels very clean, and works nicely when the link is up or when there 
is no network loop. However, when the link goes down, if I am connected near 
Router A, all traffic for that /29 is routed through Router A, and I have no 
access to the B side. Then, I can only access the B side if I connect closer to 
Router B.


Suggestions?


Thanks - Chris

[AFMUG] Blue Silos

[Keefe John]

How tall is each ring/section on a blue harvestore silo?

Keefe

[AFMUG] OT Garrison Keillor

[chuck]

Todays column excerpt:
So my friends in Copenhagen are asking, “What’s going on in America that you 
got so crazy so suddenly?” Danes take an interest in us because their country 
is flat and if our emissions melt Greenland, they’ll have to move to Norway 
where the vowels are different and the beer tastes fishy.

I tell them: the Big Snapper is the result of a longstanding American dread of 
meetings. Liberals adore meetings and whenever there is uncertainty in the air 
— salmon or salad for dinner? The Woody Allen movie or the documentary on 
income inequality? — they plop down with their lattes and everyone has her or 
his say, which takes hours and results in a report that leads to a task force 
and then a twoyear study. The Snapper is not big on meetings. Short attention 
span and superior intelligence: Let’s go. Get her done. Move on.

The second reason for his nomination is The Fascination of the Unthinkable: 
when the rational fails to satisfy, then why not the counterintuitive? If your 
car won’t start and you don’t know why, push it over a cliff and watch it blow 
up. If you’re tired of the same old same old in Washington, why not elect Bob 
Barker, host of “The Price Is Right”? It’s like having a walrus in church 
Sunday morning. The minister tries to explain the parable of the vineyard and 
the walrus says, “BLEAUGHH.” Which one do you remember for weeks afterward?

[AFMUG] 430 watchdog reset

[Shayne Lebrun]

Anybody ever figure out anything exciting about 430 watchdog timeout
reboots?

**System Startup** 
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset 
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4.1 AP-DES
Board Type : P11
Boot Bank : 0
Board Temperature : 35 C / 94 F
Device Setting : 5.7GHz SISO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-38-2a-aa 5750.0
MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/8
FPGA Version : 112211
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
12/31/2010 : 20:50:20 EDT : : Bridge/OS Core : Idle task starved for 31
seconds.
12/31/2010 : 20:50:20 EDT : 
CPU Utilization (Cur/Max): (95%/100%)
Total Time : 1976396 us

 

I kind of thing maybe it's just too busy to update the watchdog counter, but
that's idle speculation.

 

Re: [AFMUG] gov'mt money is evil

[Josh Reynolds]

IMO they are a great way to build business credit.

YMMV

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 2:05 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:
>
> so coming back on this briefly, any issue with a SBA loan with a bank where
> you're dealing with the bank, not the gov'mt directly?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Travis Johnson
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Special Assessment
>
> Just saying that government money is never what it's cracked up to be.
> I've never taken a single dime (loan, grant, tax, assessment, etc) and
> probably never will, with any of my companies. It's just not worth all
> the extra work and headaches. If you have a sound business plan and
> operation, just borrow the money and get it done.
>
> There are all kinds of ways to be creative when it comes to funding.
> Leasing equipment, 60 day term credit cards, lines of credit (secured
> with assets of the business), or even home equity loans (4.25% right
> now, with interest only payments), etc.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 8/11/2016 10:52 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>> Definitely.
>>
>> Travis, are you just generally saying the money comes with strings
>> attached, or do you have actual specific experience with Special Assessment
>> in this manner?
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:51 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Special Assessment
>>
>> Yeah, good people find themselves in legal trouble all the time when
>> getting involved with guvmnt money.  Less than zero tolerance for even the
>> appearance of evil.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:48 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Special Assessment
>>
>> You better build in an additional 100% for overhead costs... I would
>> imagine you would have to start doing audited tax returns and financials
>> every year. You will also have to have someone tracking every single expense
>> and what it is attached to, etc.
>>
>> Then you will have all the overhead and administrative costs for managing
>> the paperwork and government related money.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 10:21 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>>> Has anyone here ever done a special assessment funded project?
>>>
>>> I have a couple of examples in Utah/Idaho, but am looking for specific
>>> examples and advice from my provider friends here.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if it's called something else in other states so this is
>>> what I have been told:
>>>
>>> You talk to a land developer, get them to partner up with your company
>>> and the city.
>>> They allow a tax or assessment item to be attached to the developed
>>> lot/unit for around 20 years.
>>> Sometime like $150 a year, so $3000 total over the period.
>>> The city council agrees and creates a bond type item for that and your
>>> company gets a check for the total amount times number of properties.
>>> Then you work with the developer to install all of the necessary stuff
>>> for internet, which is fiber in my case.
>>>
>>> And the new property owner has your service available from the get go,
>>> maybe with free install, and a $150 a year discount on the service for
>>> 20 years.
>>>
>>> Anyone done anything like this?
>>>
>>>
>>

[AFMUG] gov'mt money is evil

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

so coming back on this briefly, any issue with a SBA loan with a bank where 
you're dealing with the bank, not the gov'mt directly?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Special Assessment


  Just saying that government money is never what it's cracked up to be. 
  I've never taken a single dime (loan, grant, tax, assessment, etc) and 
  probably never will, with any of my companies. It's just not worth all 
  the extra work and headaches. If you have a sound business plan and 
  operation, just borrow the money and get it done.

  There are all kinds of ways to be creative when it comes to funding. 
  Leasing equipment, 60 day term credit cards, lines of credit (secured 
  with assets of the business), or even home equity loans (4.25% right 
  now, with interest only payments), etc.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 10:52 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
  > Definitely.
  >
  > Travis, are you just generally saying the money comes with strings 
attached, or do you have actual specific experience with Special Assessment in 
this manner?
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:51 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Special Assessment
  >
  > Yeah, good people find themselves in legal trouble all the time when 
getting involved with guvmnt money.  Less than zero tolerance for even the 
appearance of evil.
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: Travis Johnson
  > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:48 AM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Special Assessment
  >
  > You better build in an additional 100% for overhead costs... I would 
imagine you would have to start doing audited tax returns and financials every 
year. You will also have to have someone tracking every single expense and what 
it is attached to, etc.
  >
  > Then you will have all the overhead and administrative costs for managing 
the paperwork and government related money.
  >
  > Travis
  >
  > On 8/11/2016 10:21 AM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
  >> Has anyone here ever done a special assessment funded project?
  >>
  >> I have a couple of examples in Utah/Idaho, but am looking for specific
  >> examples and advice from my provider friends here.
  >>
  >> I'm not sure if it's called something else in other states so this is
  >> what I have been told:
  >>
  >> You talk to a land developer, get them to partner up with your company
  >> and the city.
  >> They allow a tax or assessment item to be attached to the developed
  >> lot/unit for around 20 years.
  >> Sometime like $150 a year, so $3000 total over the period.
  >> The city council agrees and creates a bond type item for that and your
  >> company gets a check for the total amount times number of properties.
  >> Then you work with the developer to install all of the necessary stuff
  >> for internet, which is fiber in my case.
  >>
  >> And the new property owner has your service available from the get go,
  >> maybe with free install, and a $150 a year discount on the service for
  >> 20 years.
  >>
  >> Anyone done anything like this?
  >>
  >>
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Ah - good deal!

  - Original Message - 
  From: Sterling Jacobson 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


   

  So far I have used them mostly for large sweeping changes in my network 
topology.

  They programmed my OSPF and MPLS/VPLS stuff en mass, remotely.

  Which took a lot less time than I would have taken, and went a lot smoother.

  Dennis did most, if not all, of the work himself. 

  He was awesome to work with and got the job done in a timely and relatively 
painless manner.

  I intend to use them again for major changes and additions.

   

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:34 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

   

   

  I agree on the support side.

  How do you utilize linktechs to program your mikrotiks from remote?

  do you power them up on a bench they have remote access to?

   

- Original Message - 

From: Sterling Jacobson 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 

Partner companies do the construction phase and drops/splicing.

 

I contract out the CPE/ONT and inside install for $50 an install.

 

I also contract LinkTechs for larger scale mikrotik programming and 
configuration.

 

I have a local company and other local people on contract for help with 
site maintenance and setup and other network monitoring and site engineering.

 

Most of my phone calls are sales so I do all of that personally since it’s 
only a call or two a day.

 

I handle front line support since again it’s very few calls or messages.

 

I do find now days that support and even sales come in from a lot of 
different sources.

I get phone calls, texts, emails and facebook messages that I respond to.

 

It’s a lot different from a few years ago where it was mostly phone calls 
and emails.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 

what do you pay these contractors and for what work?

 

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Sterling Jacobson  
wrote:

  Yes? (pops head out of hole)

   

  I am the only employee, everyone else is contracted.

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:36 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

   

  Yep, ask Sterling.  

   

  From: Josh Luthman 

  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

   

  Contractors?

   

   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
 wrote:

I can run a WISP by myself, (have been for 12 years), no way to do 
fiber without any employees. First two good employees is going to cost what?  
$100k/year? I'm gonna keep on doing it this way as long as i can!!!

 

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  A bunch of folks on this list doing fiber with very few employees.  

  Wireless is and always will be ersatz fiber at best.  

   

  From: Kurt Fankhauser 

  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:14 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

   

  I looked into doing fiber a couple years back but was too cost 
prohibitive and was going to require too many employees. Glad I waited because 
now it looks like we can get fiber type speeds over wireless with some of the 
new radios coming out. Plus you wont have to worry about someone cutting your 
fiber! I really did not want to own plant that was in the public right of ways. 
Now i can keep on my plant on private property.

   

  On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

My grampa used to say "you can't put 10 lbs of shit in a 2 lb 
bag". I didn't realize there were other variants :)  

 

The camel thing is used in the bible as a metaphor for something 
nearly impossible.  "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a 
needle than for a rich man to go to heaven"or something to that effect.  (I 
hope nobody here has gotten too rich, we want to see you on the other side).

 

I imagine Reynolds understands the metaphor, but not the 
application of it.  He may be right to question

[AFMUG] FS: Brand new AF24 set

[TJ Trout]

Make offer offlist.

TJ

[AFMUG] 430 SM's for sale 5.4 and 5.8

[Sam Lambie]

I have about 50 of each for sale.
$50 each.

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

Works if you're looking at FB all the time.

We found that cat, and had it for dinner. Because I never saw the FB ad, 
I don't have to feel guilty.



bp


On 8/12/2016 11:16 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:


Facebook geolocated targeted ads can get very narrow. Just this 
morning I saw someone in Seattle had paid for an ad to find their lost 
cat. Screenshot attached.



On Aug 12, 2016 11:05 AM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:


Yeah, we do FB the heck out of the FTTH company.
*From:* Ken Hohhof 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 11:54 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
I assumed he was talking about his Internet-over-fiber business. 
FB ads would be good for that because you can target small

geographic areas and also you get the sharing with friends.  For
the McCown Tech business, yeah, FB doesn’t seem like a fit for
that because it’s B2B.  The Youtube videos seem like a better
approach.  An Amazon store wouldn’t hurt.
*From:* Mike Hammett 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 12:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Pay for clicks and then just use it for exposure?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Travis Johnson" mailto:t...@ida.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 12:49:04 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I understand that... but I don't think it's the kind of product
and people that will see an ad on FB, and click to buy right then.
Most of his customers are buying through distribution and other
sources, so I'm not sure he would see much ROI using FB ads.

Travis


On 8/12/2016 10:00 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint
his market
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most
of them probably don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I wish you could teach me how to use FB for
marketing.  I finally stopped paying google and bing
and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been
doing for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to
everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with
that model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those
resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in
agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several
e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't
spend a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and
it generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email
is compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is
compared to Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the
problem is, that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a
typical phd company.. They look at the paper pile
before the experience pi

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Reynolds]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> All internet roads end in porn
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 6:24 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> What eventually happens to most Internet discussion?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:14:31 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> What happened to this thread
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Aug 12, 2016 8:12 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to show my
>> genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what Snapchat is...
>> underage dick pics.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics
>> of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And
>> theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic
>> once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and
>> accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both start with the same
>> letter).
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."
>>>
>>> How people communicate is compared to how people send each other
>>> pictures of their genitals?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Travis Johnson" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>
>>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>>
>>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>>> fiber everywhere!"
>>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>>> let's look at wireless."
>>>
>>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>>
>>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd

[AFMUG] FS: SiteMonitor modules

[George Skorup]

I have two new 3 shunt / 3 volt meter modules. $50 each.

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[chuck]

Yeah, we do FB the heck out of the FTTH company.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I assumed he was talking about his Internet-over-fiber business.  FB ads would 
be good for that because you can target small geographic areas and also you get 
the sharing with friends.  For the McCown Tech business, yeah, FB doesn’t seem 
like a fit for that because it’s B2B.  The Youtube videos seem like a better 
approach.  An Amazon store wouldn’t hurt.


From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 12:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Pay for clicks and then just use it for exposure?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 12:49:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I understand that... but I don't think it's the kind of product and people that 
will see an ad on FB, and click to buy right then. Most of his customers are 
buying through distribution and other sources, so I'm not sure he would see 
much ROI using FB ads.

Travis



On 8/12/2016 10:00 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

  actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market 

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably 
don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped 
paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

  -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they 
will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

  Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).

  Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in 
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove 
up costs.

  Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, 
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. 
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction 
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to 
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. 
Existing competition and/or existing co

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Ken Hohhof]

I assumed he was talking about his Internet-over-fiber business.  FB ads would 
be good for that because you can target small geographic areas and also you get 
the sharing with friends.  For the McCown Tech business, yeah, FB doesn’t seem 
like a fit for that because it’s B2B.  The Youtube videos seem like a better 
approach.  An Amazon store wouldn’t hurt.


From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 12:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Pay for clicks and then just use it for exposure?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 12:49:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I understand that... but I don't think it's the kind of product and people that 
will see an ad on FB, and click to buy right then. Most of his customers are 
buying through distribution and other sources, so I'm not sure he would see 
much ROI using FB ads.

Travis



On 8/12/2016 10:00 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

  actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market 

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably 
don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped 
paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

  -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they 
will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

  Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).

  Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in 
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove 
up costs.

  Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, 
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. 
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction 
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to 
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. 
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to 
do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the 
MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

Pay for clicks and then just use it for exposure? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Travis Johnson"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 12:49:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

I understand that... but I don't think it's the kind of product and people that 
will see an ad on FB, and click to buy right then. Most of his customers are 
buying through distribution and other sources, so I'm not sure he would see 
much ROI using FB ads. 

Travis 



On 8/12/2016 10:00 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: 



actually, i beg to differ. FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market 


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably don't 
use FB. LOL 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 


I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing. I finally stopped paying 
google and bing and my sales have gone way up. Go figure. 

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 


Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. They 
look at the paper pile before the experience pile... & yes they will eventually 
go down because of it... 



On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you 
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did). 

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in 
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in planning 
construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove up costs. 

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from them 
should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit 
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. They may use 
microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction cost areas such 
as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they 
cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their 
wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, but even then 
they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity. 

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the 
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and too 
much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too far 
behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is 
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and 
skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hy

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Travis Johnson]

I understand that... but I don't think it's the kind of product and 
people that will see an ad on FB, and click to buy right then. Most of 
his customers are buying through distribution and other sources, so I'm 
not sure he would see much ROI using FB ads.


Travis


On 8/12/2016 10:00 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson > wrote:


You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them
probably don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing. I
finally stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone
way up.  Go figure.

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20
years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are
doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that
model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those
resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I
doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a
dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it
generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is
compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to
Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is,
that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical
phd company.. They look at the paper pile before the
experience pile...  & yes they will eventually go down
because of it...

On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber
projects, I can tell you there are a number of factors
that caused them to take pause on the deployments. One
was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
(read competitors to their broadband deployment). This
forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground
deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco,
there were a lot of requirements that cost more money
than Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind
of had the idea that cities would remove obstacles
like that to get them in their city. With so much
existing broadband already in place, this is certainly
not the case. I think Google thought all cities were
going to have the attitude like they had with the
first cities who applied for Google to come to their
cities (Like Kansas City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could
design and permit their networks and then cherry pick
neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge
logistic problem in planning construction especially
with underground deployment. This also drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options.
What you will see from them should be a hybrid network
system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where
they can. They may use microwave to cross connect
systems or bridge high construction cost areas such as
railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
basically go more from the curb to the customer,
especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do
a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless
play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile,
but even then they will have challenges with spectrum,
interference and capacity

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Travis Johnson]

I can text and send pics to anyone that I already have in my contacts... 
I have no need to do anything else. When I ask my kids what the big deal 
is with Snapchat, all they can say is "it's faster this way". I can do 
everything they can do, without having to be on ANOTHER social media 
network.


Travis


On 8/12/2016 9:56 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like 
every app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the 
digital evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson > wrote:


You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them
probably don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing. I
finally stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone
way up.  Go figure.

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20
years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are
doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that
model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those
resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I
doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a
dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it
generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is
compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to
Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is,
that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical
phd company.. They look at the paper pile before the
experience pile...  & yes they will eventually go down
because of it...

On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber
projects, I can tell you there are a number of factors
that caused them to take pause on the deployments. One
was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
(read competitors to their broadband deployment). This
forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground
deployment. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco,
there were a lot of requirements that cost more money
than Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind
of had the idea that cities would remove obstacles
like that to get them in their city. With so much
existing broadband already in place, this is certainly
not the case. I think Google thought all cities were
going to have the attitude like they had with the
first cities who applied for Google to come to their
cities (Like Kansas City did).

Google was also of the impression that they could
design and permit their networks and then cherry pick
neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge
logistic problem in planning construction especially
with underground deployment. This also drove up costs.

Google is still investigating the wireless options.
What you will see from them should be a hybrid network
system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where
they can. They may use microwave to cross connect
systems or bridge high construction cost areas such as
railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to
basically go more from the curb to the customer,
especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do
a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless
play as more of 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Carl Peterson]

The kids are just on facebook so their parents think they have visibility
into their social media.  All the "bad" stuff happens elsewhere.

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I'm not sure how accurate that is. My little cousins are on FB and they're
> in their teens. They seem to use it quite a bit. They're into those mom
> jeans I can't stand, so they're into some of the kids culture, at least.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 11:53:16 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> None of the kids (including millennials) are on Facebook.  Their moms are
> on Facebook.  But guess who makes the household purchase decisions?  And
> lest you think no millennials still live with their parents, guess again.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 11:02 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Different market as in non-Facebook users.  IE older generation.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them
>>> probably don't use FB. LOL
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
 I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally
 stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

 -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
 Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
 (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

 "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
 fiber everywhere!"
 "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
 let's look at wireless."

 I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
 they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
 Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
 companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
 Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
 $400k in sales, per month.

 Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
 texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
 These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
 someone else can do the same thing.

 Travis


 On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
> company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
> they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on
>> the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole 
>> owners
>> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
>> of
>> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>> Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
>> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With 
>> so
>> much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the 
>> case. I
>> think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
>> (Like Kansas City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
>> pre-sig

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

And everyone thought the Dow was going to hit a new high in January of 
2000. The darkest hour can be just after the brightest light.



bp


On 8/12/2016 9:20 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Instagram is about to die off?

>Alexa rankIncrease 19 (July 2016)
>Ranked 16th in the US

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett > wrote:


No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are
about to do.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Gino Villarini" mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>>
*To: *"Animal Farm" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like
every app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with
the digital evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of
them probably don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I
finally stopped paying google and bing and my sales have
gone way up.  Go figure.

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing
for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We
are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that
model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those
resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in
agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several
e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend
a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it
generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is
compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to
Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem
is, that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a
typical phd company.. They look at the paper pile
before the experience pile...  & yes they will
eventually go down because of it...

On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber
projects, I can tell you there are a number of
factors that caused them to take pause on the
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist
attitude of pole owners (read competitors to their
broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
the project deigns to underground deployment. In
cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were
a lot of requirements that cost more money than
Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind
of had the idea that cities would remove obstacles
like that to get them in their city. With so much
existing broadband already in place, this is
certainly not the case. I think Google thought all

Re: [AFMUG] Strange Malware/virus

[Bill Prince]

Look inside the .bat file to see what it was attempting to run. There is 
probably a hidden .exe somewhere (or similar).



bp


On 8/12/2016 9:30 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
A couple of PC's here came up with this file, G2AB9AE.tmp.bat , and i 
eradicated it from the two of them.
I have not found any damage or lost files.I am running checks on 
rest of machines but none are affected.

Any ideas you gurus and kool kats?
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Ken Hohhof]

None of the kids (including millennials) are on Facebook.  Their moms are on 
Facebook.  But guess who makes the household purchase decisions?  And lest you 
think no millennials still live with their parents, guess again.


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Different market as in non-Facebook users.  IE older generation.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

  actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market 

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably 
don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped 
paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

  -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they 
will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

  Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).

  Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in 
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove 
up costs.

  Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, 
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. 
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction 
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to 
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. 
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to 
do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the 
MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, 
but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and 
capacity.

  While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the 
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and too 
much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too far 
behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is 
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and 
skill sets to be one. They are 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not sure how accurate that is. My little cousins are on FB and they're in 
their teens. They seem to use it quite a bit. They're into those mom jeans I 
can't stand, so they're into some of the kids culture, at least. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:53:16 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 




None of the kids (including millennials) are on Facebook. Their moms are on 
Facebook. But guess who makes the household purchase decisions? And lest you 
think no millennials still live with their parents, guess again. 





From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:02 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Different market as in non-Facebook users. IE older generation. 





Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Gino Villarini < ginovi...@gmail.com > wrote: 



actually, i beg to differ. FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market 




On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably don't 
use FB. LOL 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 


I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing. I finally stopped paying 
google and bing and my sales have gone way up. Go figure. 

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 


Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. They 
look at the paper pile before the experience pile... & yes they will eventually 
go down because of it... 



On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you 
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did). 

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in 
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in planning 
construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove up costs. 

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from them 
should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit 
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. They may use 
microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction cost areas such 
as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they 
cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their 
wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, but even then 
they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity. 

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they set their minds to, kee

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Ken Hohhof]

Impossible.  Next he’ll be telling us Sears, KMart, Blockbuster, Radio Shack 
and Circuit City are going to die off.  Or that Verizon will buy AOL and Yahoo. 
 Now pardon me while I drive to the mall and shop at Monkey Wards.


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:20 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Instagram is about to die off? 

>Alexa rank Increase 19 (July 2016)
>Ranked 16th in the US

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are about to do.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Gino Villarini" 
  To: "Animal Farm" 
  Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?


  Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every app, 
it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital evolution... 
you turn into dinosaurs... 

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably 
don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped 
paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

  -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they 
will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

  Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).

  Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in 
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove 
up costs.

  Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, 
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. 
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction 
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to 
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. 
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to 
do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the 
MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacit

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

I think I confused Instagram and Flickr. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:20:44 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Instagram is about to die off? 



>Alexa rank Increase 19 (July 2016) 
>Ranked 16th in the US 


http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com 







Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are about to do. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Gino Villarini" < ginovi...@gmail.com > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every app, it 
evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital evolution... you 
turn into dinosaurs... 


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably don't 
use FB. LOL 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 


I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing. I finally stopped paying 
google and bing and my sales have gone way up. Go figure. 

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 


Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. They 
look at the paper pile before the experience pile... & yes they will eventually 
go down because of it... 





On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you 
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did). 

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in 
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in planning 
construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove up costs. 

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from them 
should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit 
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. They may use 
microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction cost areas such 
as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they 
cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their 
wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, but even then 
they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity. 

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they se

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

I believe Tumblr is Yahoo as well. 

The only parts of Yahoo that aren't tanking are Alibaba and Yahoo Japan. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:28:22 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Flickr is Yahoo. They're in the top 10 US I believe. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I think I confused Instagram and Flickr. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:20:44 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Instagram is about to die off? 



>Alexa rank Increase 19 (July 2016) 
>Ranked 16th in the US 


http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com 







Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 






No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are about to do. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Gino Villarini" < ginovi...@gmail.com > 
To: "Animal Farm" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every app, it 
evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital evolution... you 
turn into dinosaurs... 


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably don't 
use FB. LOL 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 


I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing. I finally stopped paying 
google and bing and my sales have gone way up. Go figure. 

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 


Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. They 
look at the paper pile before the experience pile... & yes they will eventually 
go down because of it... 





On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you 
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did). 

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in 
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in planning 
construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove up costs. 

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from them 
should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit 
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. The

[AFMUG] Strange Malware/virus

[Jaime Solorza]

A couple of PC's here came up with this file, G2AB9AE.tmp.bat , and i
eradicated it from the two of them.
I have not found any damage or lost files.I am running checks on rest
of machines but none are affected.
Any ideas you gurus and kool kats?
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

Flickr is Yahoo.  They're in the top 10 US I believe.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I think I confused Instagram and Flickr.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 11:20:44 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Instagram is about to die off?
>
> >Alexa rank Increase 19 (July 2016)
> >Ranked 16th in the US
>
> http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are about
>> to do.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Gino Villarini" 
>> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every
>> app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital
>> evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them
>>> probably don't use FB. LOL
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
 I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally
 stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

 -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
 Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
 (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

 "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
 fiber everywhere!"
 "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
 let's look at wireless."

 I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
 they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
 Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
 companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
 Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
 $400k in sales, per month.

 Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
 texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
 These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
 someone else can do the same thing.

 Travis


 On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
> company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
> they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on
>> the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole 
>> owners
>> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
>> of
>> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>> Google budgeted for. In some resp

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mathew Howard]

Wishful thinking? :P

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Instagram is about to die off?
>
> >Alexa rank Increase 19 (July 2016)
> >Ranked 16th in the US
>
> http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are about
>> to do.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Gino Villarini" 
>> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every
>> app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital
>> evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them
>>> probably don't use FB. LOL
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>
 I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally
 stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

 -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
 Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

 So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
 (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

 "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
 fiber everywhere!"
 "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
 let's look at wireless."

 I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
 they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
 Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
 companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
 Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
 $400k in sales, per month.

 Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
 texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
 These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
 someone else can do the same thing.

 Travis


 On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
> company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
> they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on
>> the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole 
>> owners
>> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
>> of
>> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
>> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
>> Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
>> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With 
>> so
>> much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the 
>> case. I
>> think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
>> (Like Kansas City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
>> problem in planning construction especially with underground deployment.
>> This also drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
>> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
>> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems wh

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

Instagram is about to die off?

>Alexa rank Increase 19 (July 2016)
>Ranked 16th in the US

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/instagram.com


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are about to
> do.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Gino Villarini" 
> *To: *"Animal Farm" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every
> app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital
> evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably
>> don't use FB. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally
>>> stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>
>>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>>
>>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>>> fiber everywhere!"
>>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>>> let's look at wireless."
>>>
>>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>>
>>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
 company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
 they will eventually go down because of it...

 On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
> you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
> of
> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
> Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
> much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. 
> I
> think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
> (Like Kansas City did).
>
> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
> problem in planning construction especially with underground deployment.
> This also drove up costs.
>
> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
> can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
> construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
> wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

No need for Snapchat. It'll die off like Instagram and Tumblr are about to do. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Gino Villarini"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 10:56:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 


Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every app, it 
evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital evolution... you 
turn into dinosaurs... 


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably don't 
use FB. LOL 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 


I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing. I finally stopped paying 
google and bing and my sales have gone way up. Go figure. 

-Original Message- From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious. 

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
fiber everywhere!" 
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
let's look at wireless." 

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
$400k in sales, per month. 

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
someone else can do the same thing. 

Travis 


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote: 


Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company.. They 
look at the paper pile before the experience pile... & yes they will eventually 
go down because of it... 



On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote: 


Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell you 
there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did). 

Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit their 
networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign ups (in 
Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in planning 
construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove up costs. 

Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see from them 
should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, capacity on lit 
fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. They may use 
microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction cost areas such 
as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to basically go more from 
the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if they 
cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I see their 
wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, but even then 
they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and capacity. 

While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do 
whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the 
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and too 
much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too far 
behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is 
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and 
skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real good at 
listening to fresh viewpoints and outside input. 

Thank You, 
Brian Webster 
www.wirelessmapping.com 
www.Broadband-Mapping.com 

-Or

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mike Hammett]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 10:09:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

No, I don't. 

First of all, the billions of dollars are already there and have been 
flowing for decades. And those billions have never been tax money. This is 
not new money, it is changing how existing streams of money are flowing. 
And it is reducing the overall amount of support for all telcos. Those 
electing ACAM are going on an equalizer system for 10 years and may have 
nothing at the end. Those electing legacy ROR support have their ROR 
reduced every year for like the next 6 years. 

I remember when the HCLS and ICLS and all the other access charge 
mechanisms were invented. I remember when NECA was created during 
divestiture. No taxes were or are involved. Originally this was all about 
taking long distance revenue away from AT&T and forcing them to share it 
with others that owned part of the highway too. How was that ever a tax? 

If you don't use the PSTN you don't pay in. 
Just like the extra fees on your airline ticket are not taxes. Don't fly 
don't pay. 

ICLS-CAF and all the other streams of support are at an all time low and are 
on a glide path toward zero. 
If you think that the creation of the nations infrastructure by forced 
balancing of revenues was a bad thing you should rejoice that the old and 
very lucrative support system is going away. 

https://www.fcc.gov/general/rate-return-resources 



-Original Message- 
From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:42 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 

You don’t think 11 Billion dollars being sent to the ILEC’s like 
Centurylink, Frontier, AT&T, etc. over the next 6 years to deploy 10/1 
internet using CAF USF funds doesn’t count as taxpayer money? 

Pretty fine line calling a mandatory fee on your phone "not tax dollars”. 

Mark 

> On Aug 11, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote: 
> 
> Thing is, they are not throwing a wrench into rural ILECs they go only 
> after low hanging fruit. 
> And nobody has received ANY taxpayer money, the USF is a fee only applied 
> to those using the PSTN. 
> And that fee replaces the old AT&T line haul payment they got from MaBell 
> back in the day. It was a replacement to make them whole. 
> 
> Rate or return regulation is 100 years old and has built a great nation. 
> Just because you did not achieve pioneers preference by starting a 
> railroad, gas company, electric company, bus line, truck line, airline, or 
> telco, don't be a hater. 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds 
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 6:16 PM 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave? 
> 
> They just need to generate enough revenue with Apps to keep their 
> primary focus going. :) 
> 
> Wait, you're not in favor of them using their own personal cash to 
> throw a wrench in the works of 1Mbps DSL LECs who have received 
> billions upon billions of taxpayer money? 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Josh Luthman 
>  wrote: 
>> Google Apps is great but doesn't generate much money. Now Gmail kind of 
>> does but it's mostly the ad revenue (their premier product). 
>> 
>> They've done decent things otherwise but I have a hard time respecting a 
>> company that just uses tons of money to build a network with the 
>> intention 
>> of destroying other companies business. 
>> 
>> Josh Luthman 
>> Office: 937-552-2340 
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 
>> 1100 Wayne St 
>> Suite 1337 
>> Troy, OH 45373 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 11, 2016 6:32 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> You have a very naive viewpoint of what they have accomplished. Look 
>>> at how successful many of their projects have been! Not all will be 
>>> hits, but the ones that have done well have done VERY well. 
>>> 
>>> They are also doing a lot of work with robotics, driverless cards, 
>>> drone delivery, and a TON of medical research. Google "X" (secret 
>>> projects / labs) will. 
>>> 
>>> Many of their things have spun off into their own Alphabet projects, 
>>> so that they require each one to fund themselves. Smart business 
>>> strategy. 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Josh Luthman 
>>>  wrote: 
>>> > Who is we? I think Google turned to a garbage generator, look at all 
>>> > the 
>>> > cancelled projects. 
>>> > 
>>> > Josh Luthman 
>>> > Office: 937-552-2340 
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343 
>>> > 1100 Wayne St 
>>> > Suite 1337 
>>> > Troy, OH 45373 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > On Aug 11, 2016 6:24 PM, "Brian Webster"  
>>> > wrote: 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
>>> >> tell 
>>> >> you 
>>> >> there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
>>> >> deploym

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[chuck]

Yes it is, at least in the amount of tie it takes to pee department...

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 10:06 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

I'm not sure it's so bad to be a dinosaur...


On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

  Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every app, 
it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital evolution... 
you turn into dinosaurs... 

  On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably 
don't use FB. LOL

Travis


On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped 
paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.

  -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM 

  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they 
will eventually go down because of it...


On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

  Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the 
deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners (read 
competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of the 
project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and San 
Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than Google 
budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would 
remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think Google 
thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they had with the first 
cities who applied for Google to come to their cities (Like Kansas City did).

  Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on pre-sign 
ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic problem in 
planning construction especially with underground deployment. This also drove 
up costs.

  Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber, 
capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they can. 
They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high construction 
cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at wireless to 
basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in MDU cases. 
Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to 
do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the 
MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last mile, 
but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, interference and 
capacity.

  While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the 
inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and too 
much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are too far 
behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about. Google is 
certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the people, tools and 
skill sets to be one. They are their own best cheerleaders and they have a 
dangerous habit of believing their own hype internally and are not real good at 
listening to fresh viewpoints and outsid

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Mathew Howard]

I'm not sure it's so bad to be a dinosaur...

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every
> app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital
> evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably
>> don't use FB. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally
>>> stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
>>>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>
>>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>>
>>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>>> fiber everywhere!"
>>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>>> let's look at wireless."
>>>
>>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>>
>>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
 company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
 they will eventually go down because of it...

 On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
> you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
> of
> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
> Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
> much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. 
> I
> think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
> (Like Kansas City did).
>
> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
> problem in planning construction especially with underground deployment.
> This also drove up costs.
>
> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
> can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
> construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
> wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
> MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
> makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
> huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
> capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
> spectrum, interference and capacity.
>
> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to
> do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from
> the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD
> and too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks
> are too far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
> Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
> people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own best
> cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
> internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and
> outside i

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

Different market as in non-Facebook users.  IE older generation.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably
>> don't use FB. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally
>>> stopped paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>>
>>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>>
>>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>>> fiber everywhere!"
>>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>>> let's look at wireless."
>>>
>>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>>
>>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>
 Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
 company.. They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes
 they will eventually go down because of it...

 On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
> you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
> deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
> (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more 
> of
> the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
> San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
> Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
> cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
> much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. 
> I
> think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
> (Like Kansas City did).
>
> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
> problem in planning construction especially with underground deployment.
> This also drove up costs.
>
> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
> capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
> can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
> construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
> wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
> MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
> makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
> huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
> capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
> spectrum, interference and capacity.
>
> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to
> do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from
> the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD
> and too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks
> are too far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
> Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
> people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own best
> cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
> internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and
> outside 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Gino Villarini]

actually, i beg to differ.  FB gives you the tools to pinpoint his market

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably
> don't use FB. LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped
>> paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>
>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>> fiber everywhere!"
>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>> let's look at wireless."
>>
>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>
>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company..
>>> They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will
>>> eventually go down because of it...
>>>
>>> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>>
 Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
 you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
 deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
 (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
 the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
 San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
 Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
 cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
 much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
 think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
 had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
 (Like Kansas City did).

 Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
 their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
 pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
 problem in planning construction especially with underground deployment.
 This also drove up costs.

 Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
 from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
 capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
 can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
 construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
 wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
 MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
 makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
 huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
 capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
 spectrum, interference and capacity.

 While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
 whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
 inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
 too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are
 too far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
 Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
 people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own best
 cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
 internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and
 outside input.

 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 www.wirelessmapping.com
 www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:29 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going mi

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Gino Villarini]

Snapchat is no longer either a teen app nor its for nudes... like every
app, it evolves ... If you guys are not keeping pace with the digital
evolution... you turn into dinosaurs...

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> You have a very small population to cater to... and most of them probably
> don't use FB. LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 8/11/2016 11:11 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> I wish you could teach me how to use FB for marketing.  I finally stopped
>> paying google and bing and my sales have gone way up.  Go figure.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:50 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>
>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>> fiber everywhere!"
>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>> let's look at wireless."
>>
>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>
>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd company..
>>> They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  & yes they will
>>> eventually go down because of it...
>>>
>>> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>>
 Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can tell
 you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause on the
 deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of pole owners
 (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This forced a lot more of
 the project deigns to underground deployment. In cities like San Jose and
 San Francisco, there were a lot of requirements that cost more money than
 Google budgeted for. In some respects Google kind of had the idea that
 cities would remove obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so
 much existing broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
 think Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
 had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their cities
 (Like Kansas City did).

 Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit
 their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on
 pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge logistic
 problem in planning construction especially with underground deployment.
 This also drove up costs.

 Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see
 from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark fiber,
 capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems where they
 can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or bridge high
 construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They are looking at
 wireless to basically go more from the curb to the customer, especially in
 MDU cases. Existing competition and/or existing contracts within an MDU
 makes it risky to do a wired play if they cannot assure themselves of a
 huge take rate within the MDU. I see their wireless play as more of a high
 capacity short hop last mile, but even then they will have challenges with
 spectrum, interference and capacity.

 While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to do
 whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot from the
 inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty somethings with ADD and
 too much money. They also seem to have the attitude that older folks are
 too far behind the times to possibly know what they are talking about.
 Google is certainly not a utility infrastructure company and lack the
 people, tools and skill sets to be one. They are their own best
 cheerleaders and they have a dangerous habit of believing their own hype
 internally and are not real good at listening to fresh viewpoints and
 outside input.

 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 www.wirelessmapping.com
 www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 -Original Message-
 From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
 Se

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Josh Luthman]

You promised you'd keep that a secret...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I had a business partner that would take  nude selfies and bring his
> camera to the office to be downloaded and printed.
>
> He didn’t know how to do it  so he would ask my assistant.  I would
> normally intercept the camera, pull up the images on my computer and  ask
> him if he really wanted those types  of  photos printed... he would always
> act shocked and say he didn’t know how those images got there.
>
> I  knew what he was doing.  Just trying to intervene and prevent others
> from having to see that.  We are  lucky no law suits resulted.  But I  do
> have permanent brain damage from it.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 9:22 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Was it this guy?
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 9:53 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> You sure it  was an accident???
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>
> Mike,
>
> Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics
> of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And
> theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic
> once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and
> accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both start with the same
> letter).
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."
>>
>> How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures
>> of their genitals?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Travis Johnson" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
>>
>> So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
>> (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.
>>
>> "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
>> fiber everywhere!"
>> "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
>> let's look at wireless."
>>
>> I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet
>> they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
>> Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
>> companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
>> Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
>> $400k in sales, per month.
>>
>> Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
>> texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
>> These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means
>> someone else can do the same thing.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
>> > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...
>> > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>> >
>> > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause
>> >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of
>> >> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This
>> >> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In
>> >> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of
>> >> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some
>> >> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove
>> >> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing
>> >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think
>> >> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they
>> >> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their
>> >> cities (Like Kansas City did).
>> >>
>> >> Google was 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

It's impossible to un-see something like that.


bp


On 8/12/2016 8:27 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
I had a business partner that would take  nude selfies and bring his 
camera to the office to be downloaded and printed.
He didn’t know how to do it  so he would ask my assistant.  I would 
normally intercept the camera, pull up the images on my computer and  
ask him if he really wanted those types  of  photos printed... he 
would always act shocked and say he didn’t know how those images got 
there.
I  knew what he was doing.  Just trying to intervene and prevent 
others from having to see that.  We are  lucky no law suits resulted.  
But I  do have permanent brain damage from it.

*From:* Ken Hohhof 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 9:22 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Was it this guy?
*From:* Chuck McCown 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 9:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
You sure it  was an accident???
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Mike,
Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending 
pics of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or 
worse. And theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen 
a genital pic once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his 
girlfriend and accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both 
start with the same letter).
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote:


"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other
pictures of their genitals?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Travis Johnson" mailto:t...@ida.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources,
and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that
means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
> company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience
pile...
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take
pause
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground
deployment. In
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In
some
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
think
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like
they

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Chuck McCown]

I had a business partner that would take  nude selfies and bring his camera to 
the office to be downloaded and printed.  

He didn’t know how to do it  so he would ask my assistant.  I would normally 
intercept the camera, pull up the images on my computer and  ask him if he 
really wanted those types  of  photos printed... he would always act shocked 
and say he didn’t know how those images got there.

I  knew what he was doing.  Just trying to intervene and prevent others from 
having to see that.  We are  lucky no law suits resulted.  But I  do have 
permanent brain damage from it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 9:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Was it this guy?

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You sure it  was an accident???

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Mike,  

Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

  How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Travis Johnson" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
  > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
  > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
  >
  > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
  >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
  >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
  >> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
  >> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
  >> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
  >> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
  >> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
  >> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
  >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
  >> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
  >> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
  >> cities (Like Kansas City did).
  >>
  >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
  >> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
  >> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
  >> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
  >> deployment. This also drove up costs.
  >>
  >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
  >> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
  >> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
  >> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
  >> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They 
  >> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the 
  >> customer, especially in MDU cases. Exist

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

+1.

My small circle of friends mainly use Whatsapp because it's cheaper for 
a couple of the guys that have to travel to Mexico regularly.


Otherwise, just generic texting, and a little slack for work-related things.

I stay away from pretty much all so-called social networking anything. 
Massive time sink IMO.



bp


On 8/12/2016 6:28 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

“Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse.”
That makes me want to use it even less than Mike’s description.
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 7:15 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Maybe thats what it started out as but i know a ton of 30+year old 
people that use it. Actually know some people in their 50's that have 
it. I know one thing it is generating enough traffic to register in my 
Procera box...
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote:


I haven't, no, because I'm not a teenager or pre-teen looking to
show my genitals to another teenager or pre-teen. That's what
Snapchat is... underage dick pics.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Friday, August 12, 2016 7:06:09 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Mike,
Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than
sending pics of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like
facebook or worse. And theres alot more on it than genitals.
Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that was a friend of
mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked my
name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

How people communicate is compared to how people send each
other pictures of their genitals?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Travis Johnson" mailto:t...@ida.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20
years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are
doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that
model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those
resources, and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I
doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a
dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it
generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is
compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to
Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is,
that means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

I thought the G was funding the moon X-prize?

bp


On 8/12/2016 7:49 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
And is besties with Page and Brin...  maybe I have it wrong and spacex 
is google's spaceship.. 

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Ken Hohhof]

Was it this guy?

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

You sure it  was an accident???

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

Mike,  

Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending pics of 
genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or worse. And theres 
alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen a genital pic once and that 
was a friend of mine was sending it to his girlfriend and accidentally checked 
my name instead of hers, (both start with the same letter).

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

  "and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

  How people communicate is compared to how people send each other pictures of 
their genitals?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Travis Johnson" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

  So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years 
  (before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

  "Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing 
  fiber everywhere!"
  "Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model... 
  let's look at wireless."

  I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources, and yet 
  they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt 
  Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce 
  companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with 
  Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates 
  $400k in sales, per month.

  Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to 
  texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat. 
  These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that means 
  someone else can do the same thing.

  Travis


  On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
  > Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd 
  > company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience pile...  
  > & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
  >
  > On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  >> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can 
  >> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take pause 
  >> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of 
  >> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This 
  >> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground deployment. In 
  >> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of 
  >> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In some 
  >> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove 
  >> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much existing 
  >> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I think 
  >> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like they 
  >> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their 
  >> cities (Like Kansas City did).
  >>
  >> Google was also of the impression that they could design and permit 
  >> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy based on 
  >> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge 
  >> logistic problem in planning construction especially with underground 
  >> deployment. This also drove up costs.
  >>
  >> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you will see 
  >> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark 
  >> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber systems 
  >> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or 
  >> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings. They 
  >> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the 
  >> customer, especially in MDU cases. Existing competition and/or 
  >> existing contracts within an MDU makes it risky to do a wired play if 
  >> they cannot assure themselves of a huge take rate within the MDU. I 
  >> see their wireless play as more of a high capacity short hop last 
  >> mile, but even then they will have challenges with spectrum, 
  >> interference and capacity.
  >>
  >> While we all would think Google is a great company with resources to 
  >> do whatever they set their minds to, keep in mind I have seen a lot 
  >> from the inside. I like to equate them to a group of thirty 
  >> somethings with ADD and too much money. They also seem to have the 
  >> attitude that older folks are too far behind the times to possibly 
  >> know w

Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

[Bill Prince]

LOL!

I love this list!


bp


On 8/12/2016 7:53 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

You sure it  was an accident???
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser 
*Sent:* Friday, August 12, 2016 6:06 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?
Mike,
Have you ever used Snapchat? I mean for anything other than sending 
pics of genitals? lol. Its very addicting, almost like facebook or 
worse. And theres alot more on it than genitals. Actually i only seen 
a genital pic once and that was a friend of mine was sending it to his 
girlfriend and accidentally checked my name instead of hers, (both 
start with the same letter).
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote:


"and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat."

How people communicate is compared to how people send each other
pictures of their genitals?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Travis Johnson" mailto:t...@ida.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:50:22 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google fiber going microwave?

So... Google is going to do what WISP's have been doing for 20 years
(before they were even called WISPs). That's hilarious.

"Fiber! Fiber! Fiber! That is the answer to everything. We are doing
fiber everywhere!"
"Fiber is expensive, and we can never get an ROI with that model...
let's look at wireless."

I'm still laughing... a company that size, with those resources,
and yet
they still seem to be clueless sometimes. I'm in agreement, I doubt
Google will even be around in 20 years. I own several e-commerce
companies (multi-million dollar ones), and we don't spend a dime with
Google. One company spends $5k/month with Facebook and it generates
$400k in sales, per month.

Google is becoming "old school"... the same way email is compared to
texting... and the way texting/FB/Instagram is compared to Snapchat.
These companies get big, really fast... but the problem is, that
means
someone else can do the same thing.

Travis


On 8/11/2016 6:26 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> Sorry to sound like not a google fanboy but it's a typical phd
> company..  They look at the paper pile before the experience
pile...
> & yes they will eventually go down because of it...
>
> On 08/11/2016 03:24 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> Having been directly involved in the Google Fiber projects, I can
>> tell you there are a number of factors that caused them to take
pause
>> on the deployments. One was the almost obstructionist attitude of
>> pole owners (read competitors to their broadband deployment). This
>> forced a lot more of the project deigns to underground
deployment. In
>> cities like San Jose and San Francisco, there were a lot of
>> requirements that cost more money than Google budgeted for. In
some
>> respects Google kind of had the idea that cities would remove
>> obstacles like that to get them in their city. With so much
existing
>> broadband already in place, this is certainly not the case. I
think
>> Google thought all cities were going to have the attitude like
they
>> had with the first cities who applied for Google to come to their
>> cities (Like Kansas City did).
>>
>> Google was also of the impression that they could design and
permit
>> their networks and then cherry pick neighborhoods to deploy
based on
>> pre-sign ups (in Google terms - fiberhoods). This creates a huge
>> logistic problem in planning construction especially with
underground
>> deployment. This also drove up costs.
>>
>> Google is still investigating the wireless options. What you
will see
>> from them should be a hybrid network system. They will buy up dark
>> fiber, capacity on lit fiber, conduit space and whole fiber
systems
>> where they can. They may use microwave to cross connect systems or
>> bridge high construction cost areas such as railroad crossings.
They
>> are looking at wireless to basically go more from the curb to the
>> customer, especially in MDU cases. Exi