from:"chris harper"

[android-developers] Please help with Bitmap issue. I have screen shots!?!

2011-01-06 Thread chris harper

Kostya (or anyone else)

Ok. In TRYING to write out a  ANDROID Bitmap to a windows .bmp file.
I am very close but there is something that is still off because my image
doesn't look right (as in the screen shot below).

Here is how I am writing out to the file:

cache - is the Android Bitmap file which I want to write out to a .bmp file.

It is  set to:  Bitmap.Config.ARGB_

   //Get the Bitmap height, width, and put the data
into a byte array (bytesar)

byte[]   bytesar   = null;
ByteBuffer  dst   = null;

int height = cache.getHeight();
int width = cache.getWidth();
int bmSize = cache.getRowBytes() * height;

   dst = ByteBuffer.allocate(bmSize);

   bytesar = new byte[bmSize];


dst.position(0);
cache.copyPixelsToBuffer(dst);

dst.position(0);
dst.get(bytesar);

   //I then write out the bytesar byte array AFTER I
write out the BMP header.


 The settings in the header are:

 private byte bitmapInfoHeader [] = new byte [40]; - Header size is 40
private int biSize = BITMAPINFOHEADER_SIZE;
private int biWidth = width  //width of Bitmap
private int biHeight = height   //height of Bitmap
private int biPlanes = 1;
private int biBitCount = 32;   //The bite count is 32
private int biCompression = 0;

 size is computed by:
 int pad = (4 - ((width * 3) % 4)) * height;
 biSizeImage = ((width * height) * 3) + pad;

private int biSizeImage
private int biXPelsPerMeter = 0x0;
private int biYPelsPerMeter = 0x0;
private int biClrUsed = 0;
private int biClrImportant = 0;

It's very close because here is what it looks like when I write out the .bmp
file.
As you can see it's upside down and the colors are off:
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i409/ch39336688/test-2.jpg

In the same block of code I write out using the Android lib to make sure
that my image is good via the code:
FileOutputStream out = new FileOutputStream(test.png);
 cache.compress(Bitmap.
CompressFormat.PNG, 90, out);

And here is how that comes out (which is how I want):
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i409/ch39336688/test.png

Again I don't just want to use compress to write out my images because I
have a lot of images and it kills my performance. So I want to stream the
images out to a .bmp file is what my overall goal is. Someplace in my .bmp
header I have something wrong I think.

Any help on what anyone thinks my issue is would be a great help. Thank you

-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] Please help with Bitmap issue. I have screen shots!?!

2011-01-06 Thread chris harper

Thank you again Kostya

I will research based on what you told me and let you know if I get it to
work.

-Chris

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.com wrote:

  Chris,

 First off, Windows bitmap are stored upside-down:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP_file_format#Pixel_Array_.28bitmap_data.29

 The Pixel Array is a block of 32-bit DWORDs, that describes the image pixel
 by pixel. Normally pixels are stored upside-down with respect to normal
 image raster scan order, starting in the lower left corner, going from left
 to right, and then row by row from the bottom to the top of the image.[1]


 I *think* you can indicate top-down order by setting height to a negative
 value (in the file header).

 Secondly, the color problem - 32-bit per pixel Windows bitmaps use BGRx
 data format, blue-green-red, then one byte is ignored.

 Your input image is ARGB, so red and blue are switched around.

 Since you indicated that you'll be processing these images further, you
 could handle both issues in your server code. Or you could handle them on
 the phone, changing byte order around isn't going to be as time-consuming as
 compression.

 -- Kostya

 06.01.2011 23:53, chris harper пишет:

 Kostya (or anyone else)

 Ok. In TRYING to write out a  ANDROID Bitmap to a windows .bmp file.
 I am very close but there is something that is still off because my image
 doesn't look right (as in the screen shot below).

 Here is how I am writing out to the file:

 cache - is the Android Bitmap file which I want to write out to a .bmp
 file.
 It is  set to:  Bitmap.Config.ARGB_

//Get the Bitmap height, width, and put the data
 into a byte array (bytesar)

 byte[]   bytesar   = null;
 ByteBuffer  dst   = null;

 int height = cache.getHeight();
 int width = cache.getWidth();
 int bmSize = cache.getRowBytes() * height;

dst = ByteBuffer.allocate(bmSize);

bytesar = new byte[bmSize];


 dst.position(0);
  cache.copyPixelsToBuffer(dst);

 dst.position(0);
 dst.get(bytesar);

 //I then write out the bytesar byte array AFTER
 I write out the BMP header.


  The settings in the header are:

  private byte bitmapInfoHeader [] = new byte [40]; - Header size is 40
 private int biSize = BITMAPINFOHEADER_SIZE;
 private int biWidth = width  //width of Bitmap
 private int biHeight = height   //height of Bitmap
 private int biPlanes = 1;
 private int biBitCount = 32;   //The bite count is 32
 private int biCompression = 0;

  size is computed by:
  int pad = (4 - ((width * 3) % 4)) * height;
  biSizeImage = ((width * height) * 3) + pad;

 private int biSizeImage
 private int biXPelsPerMeter = 0x0;
 private int biYPelsPerMeter = 0x0;
 private int biClrUsed = 0;
 private int biClrImportant = 0;

 It's very close because here is what it looks like when I write out the
 .bmp file.
 As you can see it's upside down and the colors are off:
 http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i409/ch39336688/test-2.jpg

 In the same block of code I write out using the Android lib to make sure
 that my image is good via the code:
 FileOutputStream out = new FileOutputStream(test.png);
  cache.compress(Bitmap.
 CompressFormat.PNG, 90, out);

 And here is how that comes out (which is how I want):
 http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i409/ch39336688/test.png

 Again I don't just want to use compress to write out my images because I
 have a lot of images and it kills my performance. So I want to stream the
 images out to a .bmp file is what my overall goal is. Someplace in my .bmp
 header I have something wrong I think.

 Any help on what anyone thinks my issue is would be a great help. Thank you

 -Chris
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 http://kmansoft.wordpress.com

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[android-developers] Hello. I try to contribute when I can so please help me on an a Bitmap issue if possible.

2011-01-05 Thread chris harper

This a Bitmap question.

  Given an Android Bitmap which has been written to file I want to read the
Android BitMap from the file and convert it to a PNG OUTSIDE of Android (via
a regular java program).


  Here is how I am writing out the Bitmap to a file:
   screenShot - is a Bitmap

//Get Bitmap information
int height = screenShot.getHeight();
int width = screenShot.getWidth();
int bmSize = screenShot.getRowBytes() * height;

//Write the Bitmap to a byte array
ByteBuffer dst = ByteBuffer.allocate(bmSize);
byte bytesar = new byte[bmSize];
dst.position(0);
screenShot.copyPixelsToBuffer(dst);
dst.position(0);
dst.get(bytesar);

   //Write it to a file
   //I write out the height, width and size before the  Bitmap
data so I know what the Bitmap dimensions are when reading back in
final int BUFFSIZE = 32 * 1024;
final int streamBuffSizeInBytes = ( ( BUFFSIZE * 2 * 75
/ 100 ) + 8 ) / 16 * 16;
File f = new File(buffer);
BufferedOutputStream bout = new BufferedOutputStream(new
FileOutputStream(filename), streamBuffSizeInBytes);
out = new ObjectOutputStream(bout);
out.writeInt(height);
out.writeInt(width);
out.writeInt(bmSize);
out.write(bytesar, 0, bytesar.length);


 Now I realize that I can just write out the Bitmap in the
from of a PNG via:

 screenShot.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

   The issue here is performance. I have a lot of images that I
need to write out and this command is very expensive, time consuming and
kills my performance:
   screenShot.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

  Where if I just grab the Bitmap and write it out using a
BufferedOutputStream (as above) it is very fast and I can write many images
to a file (or socket) very quickly. Then OUTSIDE of Android do the work to
convert the Bitmap's to PNG file's.

  So the question I have is how can I read the Bitmap from a
file OUTSIDE of Android and convert it to a PNG?
  Like I said I send the dimensions of the image before the
image itself so I can read it back in via:
out.writeInt(height);
out.writeInt(width);
out.writeInt(bmSize);
out.write(bytesar, 0, bytesar.length);

  Essentially I need to do the Android command OUTSIDE of
Android:
  BitMap.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

  Or find the Java command which does the same thing.
  Or how does Java see an Android Bitmap when I read it back
in?
  I read where ByteBuffer is the same as Bitmap but in my tests
(via writing out the Bitmap in Android and reading it in as a ByteBuffer in
java) that does not appear to be the case.

 Any help would be wonderful.

Thank you
-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] Hello. I try to contribute when I can so please help me on an a Bitmap issue if possible.

2011-01-05 Thread chris harper

Kostya

Your a saint. Thank you for the fast *response*.

I like your suggestion of writing it out in  .BMP uncompressed format.
Then I can just open it as a BMP and convert it to PNG (if need be) outside
of android.

That Wikipedia link looks very helpful.
I'll give that a try.

Thank you very much.

-Chris

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.com wrote:

 PS - there is also this library from Sun / Oracle:

 http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/iio.html

 which can save to PNG in one line of code:

 http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/forDevelopers/jaifaq.html#save


 -- Kostya

 05.01.2011 20:02, chris harper пишет:

 This a Bitmap question.


 Given an Android Bitmap which has been written to file I want to read the
 Android BitMap from the file and convert it to a PNG OUTSIDE of Android (via
 a regular java program).


 Here is how I am writing out the Bitmap to a file:
 screenShot - is a Bitmap

 //Get Bitmap information
 int height = screenShot.getHeight();
 int width = screenShot.getWidth();
 int bmSize = screenShot.getRowBytes() * height;

 //Write the Bitmap to a byte array
 ByteBuffer dst = ByteBuffer.allocate(bmSize);
 byte bytesar = new byte[bmSize];
 dst.position(0);
 screenShot.copyPixelsToBuffer(dst);
 dst.position(0);
 dst.get(bytesar);

 //Write it to a file
 //I write out the height, width and size before the Bitmap data so I know
 what the Bitmap dimensions are when reading back in
 final int BUFFSIZE = 32 * 1024;
 final int streamBuffSizeInBytes = ( ( BUFFSIZE * 2 * 75 / 100 ) + 8 ) / 16
 * 16;
 File f = new File(buffer);
 BufferedOutputStream bout = new BufferedOutputStream(new
 FileOutputStream(filename), streamBuffSizeInBytes);
 out = new ObjectOutputStream(bout);
 out.writeInt(height);
 out.writeInt(width);
 out.writeInt(bmSize);
 out.write(bytesar, 0, bytesar.length);


 Now I realize that I can just write out the Bitmap in the from of a PNG
 via:

 screenShot.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

 The issue here is performance. I have a lot of images that I need to write
 out and this command is very expensive, time consuming and kills my
 performance:
 screenShot.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

 Where if I just grab the Bitmap and write it out using a
 BufferedOutputStream (as above) it is very fast and I can write many images
 to a file (or socket) very quickly. Then OUTSIDE of Android do the work to
 convert the Bitmap's to PNG file's.

 So the question I have is how can I read the Bitmap from a file OUTSIDE of
 Android and convert it to a PNG?
 Like I said I send the dimensions of the image before the image itself so
 I can read it back in via:
 out.writeInt(height);
 out.writeInt(width);
 out.writeInt(bmSize);
 out.write(bytesar, 0, bytesar.length);

 Essentially I need to do the Android command OUTSIDE of Android:
 BitMap.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

 Or find the Java command which does the same thing.
 Or how does Java see an Android Bitmap when I read it back in?
 I read where ByteBuffer is the same as Bitmap but in my tests (via writing
 out the Bitmap in Android and reading it in as a ByteBuffer in java) that
 does not appear to be the case.

 Any help would be wonderful.

 Thank you
 -Chris





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 http://kmansoft.wordpress.com

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Re: [android-developers] Hello. I try to contribute when I can so please help me on an a Bitmap issue if possible.

2011-01-05 Thread chris harper

Kostya

I did some research and found a solution to my issue based on your
suggestion which might help someone else out as well.

I found this link which has code to read/write out a .BMP file like you
suggested (WITHOUT using the javax.imageio because Android doesn't support
it).

http://research.cs.queensu.ca/~blostein/java.html

So I can now write my uncompressed data out as a windows bitmap (.bmp). Then
read it in on the server side and convert it to PNG or just view it.
All this saves my Android app from calling the Bitmap.compress() which is
very expensive.

Thanks again Kostya for sending me down the right path.

-Chris



On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:24 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 Kostya

 Your a saint. Thank you for the fast *response*.

 I like your suggestion of writing it out in  .BMP uncompressed format.
 Then I can just open it as a BMP and convert it to PNG (if need be) outside
 of android.

 That Wikipedia link looks very helpful.
 I'll give that a try.

 Thank you very much.

 -Chris


 On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Kostya Vasilyev kmans...@gmail.comwrote:

 PS - there is also this library from Sun / Oracle:

 http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/iio.html

 which can save to PNG in one line of code:

 http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/forDevelopers/jaifaq.html#save


 -- Kostya

 05.01.2011 20:02, chris harper пишет:

 This a Bitmap question.


 Given an Android Bitmap which has been written to file I want to read the
 Android BitMap from the file and convert it to a PNG OUTSIDE of Android (via
 a regular java program).


 Here is how I am writing out the Bitmap to a file:
 screenShot - is a Bitmap

 //Get Bitmap information
 int height = screenShot.getHeight();
 int width = screenShot.getWidth();
 int bmSize = screenShot.getRowBytes() * height;

 //Write the Bitmap to a byte array
 ByteBuffer dst = ByteBuffer.allocate(bmSize);
 byte bytesar = new byte[bmSize];
 dst.position(0);
 screenShot.copyPixelsToBuffer(dst);
 dst.position(0);
 dst.get(bytesar);

 //Write it to a file
 //I write out the height, width and size before the Bitmap data so I know
 what the Bitmap dimensions are when reading back in
 final int BUFFSIZE = 32 * 1024;
 final int streamBuffSizeInBytes = ( ( BUFFSIZE * 2 * 75 / 100 ) + 8 ) /
 16 * 16;
 File f = new File(buffer);
 BufferedOutputStream bout = new BufferedOutputStream(new
 FileOutputStream(filename), streamBuffSizeInBytes);
 out = new ObjectOutputStream(bout);
 out.writeInt(height);
 out.writeInt(width);
 out.writeInt(bmSize);
 out.write(bytesar, 0, bytesar.length);


 Now I realize that I can just write out the Bitmap in the from of a PNG
 via:

 screenShot.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

 The issue here is performance. I have a lot of images that I need to
 write out and this command is very expensive, time consuming and kills my
 performance:
 screenShot.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

 Where if I just grab the Bitmap and write it out using a
 BufferedOutputStream (as above) it is very fast and I can write many images
 to a file (or socket) very quickly. Then OUTSIDE of Android do the work to
 convert the Bitmap's to PNG file's.

 So the question I have is how can I read the Bitmap from a file OUTSIDE
 of Android and convert it to a PNG?
 Like I said I send the dimensions of the image before the image itself so
 I can read it back in via:
 out.writeInt(height);
 out.writeInt(width);
 out.writeInt(bmSize);
 out.write(bytesar, 0, bytesar.length);

 Essentially I need to do the Android command OUTSIDE of Android:
 BitMap.compress(Bitmap.CompressFormat.PNG, 90, output);

 Or find the Java command which does the same thing.
 Or how does Java see an Android Bitmap when I read it back in?
 I read where ByteBuffer is the same as Bitmap but in my tests (via
 writing out the Bitmap in Android and reading it in as a ByteBuffer in java)
 that does not appear to be the case.

 Any help would be wonderful.

 Thank you
 -Chris





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 --
 Kostya Vasilyev -- WiFi Manager + pretty widget --
 http://kmansoft.wordpress.com

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Re: [android-developers] How to get the list of all apps installed on the device?

2010-05-24 Thread chris harper

Here is what I use to list all the applications installed. I am trying to
find a more efficient way.

PackageManager packageManager = getPackageManager();
ListPackageInfo packs =
packageManager.getInstalledPackages(0);
size = packs.size();
for (int i = 0; i  size; i++)
{
PackageInfo p = packs.get(i);
appname =
p.applicationInfo.loadLabel(packageManager).toString();
pname = p.packageName;
}

-Chris

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote:

 Scheidecker wrote:
  I would like to know if I could access the internal device DB to fetch
  a list of all installed applications, their version, etc?

 See the PackageManager class.

  How can I read the settings on the device as well?

 See the Settings class.

 --
 Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
 http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy
 http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy

 _Beginning Android 2_ from Apress Now Available!

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Re: [android-developers] 14-year-old Android Developer:

2010-04-22 Thread chris harper

That kid will probably know more about software engineering by the time he
is done with High School than I did when I graduated collage.

It sounds like he is on a good track to have a very successful future.

-Chris

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:26 PM, joshbeck josh.beck2...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 I'm writing a curriculum this year that is designed to get high-
 achieving 8th grade students to write and publish
 Android apps. One of my students broke the $50 this week.

 Here's an article:

 http://www.neisd.net/ComRel/News/Krueger_PaidApp_10.htm

 He's basically spent the last 2 months camped out in my computer lab,
 but hard work pays off for sure.

 I'm doing my best to document my instruction through YouTube at
 http://linuxclassroom.com


 Thanks all,
 Josh Beck

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Phones

2010-04-12 Thread chris harper

javame

Have you used device anywhere? I have been checking them out and considering
on trying them out but wanted the opinion of anyone that has used them and
if they are worth the money to test with.

Thank you

-Chris

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 6:28 AM, MobDev developm...@mobilaria.com wrote:

Well depends on what you mean with in market...
Are you referring to the ADP's ?
Otherwise you might want to look for a second-hand device in your
country ? Via ebay or something similar...

On 12 apr, 11:35, Nubh nubh.bharg...@gmail.com wrote:
hey
how to buy a phone for testing applications, can anyone suggest. Other
phones in market are way to expensive.

NUBH

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Phones

2010-04-12 Thread chris harper

Thank you for the response. I'll give them a try when I am ready test my
app.

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Vladimir vladimir.funti...@gmail.comwrote:

I used DA 2 years ago when I was working as a j2me developer, it went
well, a bit slow but I was able to play the game and test what I
wanted to test. Not a very pleasant experience but it got the job
done.

2OP: ebay is your friend, I believe you can get a used G1 for
$100-150, that's enough to begin developing

On Apr 12, 7:25 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
javame

Have you used device anywhere? I have been checking them out and
considering
on trying them out but wanted the opinion of anyone that has used them
and
if they are worth the money to test with.

Thank you

-Chris

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 6:28 AM, MobDev developm...@mobilaria.com
wrote:
Well depends on what you mean with in market...
Are you referring to the ADP's ?
Otherwise you might want to look for a second-hand device in your
country ? Via ebay or something similar...

On 12 apr, 11:35, Nubh nubh.bharg...@gmail.com wrote:
hey
how to buy a phone for testing applications, can anyone suggest.
Other
phones in market are way to expensive.

NUBH

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-27 Thread chris harper

I am sure they will but I wouldn't hold my breath on WHEN. There was a
lengthy thread going about two weeks ago on here about improving the market.
I just skimmed it to follow along but they wanted to do a petition and
everything. I am not sure what happened to that. I would bet money that
google IS working on it. How could they not? Android is googles big thing
right now. But my thoughts are watching how long it's taken for Eclair 2.1
to come out I wouldn't count on  the Market being improved anytime quickly
which is why when a few people suggested that I hold off on doing my app
installs idea until they improve the market well... I don't really want to
wait til 2012 to put my app out.

;-)
-Chris

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:

 I believe most apps are available within a few hours to a day at most..
 from what I've read anyway. Not 100% sure tho. I am a little bummed that
 google hasn't made any attempt to better the market app. There is sooo much
 I would do to improve it. It could be far better than the iPhone market app.
 I wonder if they have a forum to post on things like the built-in apps... or
 if we can gain source code to it and mess with it, test it and offer changes
 to them.


 On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 8:40 PM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 That is a great idea and out of the box (which is good) building a .apk
 dynamically.

 The Market place does not yet have the ability to search per app (which I
 agree if add on's start to come more common that will be needed). The way I
 am planning on getting around that (hopefully temporarily) is that within my
 app I still plan to open a page to my website where all my characters are
 and they can select them from there.  Once they select a character it then
 links to the .apk within the market place for that character.

 I admit the downside is they can't select multiple characters for one
 check out which is where you idea would be ideal. But I think its the best I
 can currently do until the Market place changes.

 One question I do have though. I have yet to publish an app on the Market
 (this will be my first one).
 How long is the process take when you submit an app to when it is
 available on the market?
 I really don't know. For your idea that would probably be my first
 question and its not an issue with your idea but more an issue of the Market
 place. Is it immediately? Or does it take a few days?

 If it takes a few days you can see how it would make a user upset if they
 ordered something and they have to wait days to get it.

 If it is immediately than you might have given me an idea for version two
 of my app (if people like version one that is).

 I hope to get my first install app working with my main app by the end of
 the weekend to add/remove my characters.

 -Chris



 On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.comwrote:

 I have a sort of twist idea to the market problem... not sure this can be
 done, but I think it could be possible.

 Imagine you have an app that allows for virtual goods. You have dozens of
 goods for sale. Even better, you have an open-ended API that allows OTHER
 developers/users to create goods for your game/app and sell them. Yay..
 revenue streams are good.

 Now, many users will probably buy one good here, one good there... but
 often times, you'll have a lot of users who want to purchase several goods.
 We surely don't want to deter the multi-goods buyer. That's more money in
 our pocket. The problem with the way you're doing it Chris (not a problem as
 in bad..just for this example), is that they would have to search/find/buy
 individual downloads for each good they wanted.

 What if your users could build up a cart full of items they want, check
 out just once, and behind the scenes, your server side builds up a single
 .apk with those goods, put's it out on the market, then sends them an email
 link for them to access from their android device when its deployed to
 market. At that time, they can then purchase the whole pack at once, through
 the market, and then utilize what you are doing Chris, where your main app
 can make use of all the goods from that install, and if not refunded in 48
 hours... uninstall/delete the .apk off the device to avoid taking up room.

 Ok, I don't know that I would implement this, but I imagine it's got to
 be possible.

 On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 8:43 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.comwrote:

 We are probably in the running for the most active thread now but that’s
 great because

 this is an important issue that needs to be addressed.



 Bob – Thank you. Your solution is a pretty thought out solution. I admit
 I had to print it out and re-read it a few times. I might have a few
 questions coming your way because I think I like what you are doing. Give 
 me
 a little more time to make sure I understand what you are doing.



 String – Congrats on doing what many have failed to do. Get an answer

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-27 Thread chris harper

Yes I know. Warren brought that up. But the game changer was when I found
out that I can remove:

category android:name=android.intent.category.LAUNCHER /

from the manifet.xml which hides the new app's from the user (hides the
clutter) and also doesn't allow the user to start it them on their own.

So then I can just keep the new install apps behind the scenes and they
don't clutter the users drawer. So there is not as much of an importance to
delete them right away.

What I might do is run checks for the install apps after a safe time (like a
week). Then prompt the user and ask them if they want to clean them up (i.e
remove them) letting them know that removing them DOES NOT remove the
character. This way in the long run they don't have a bunch stacked up
behind the scenes that they don't know about.

I do plan to make the character apps as small as I can and put as much of
the logic in the main app as I can.

So many little details we have to deal with...
-Chris

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Bob Kerns r...@acm.org wrote:

Thanks. But it slipped my mind as I was writing it that immediately
deleting the new app is going to be a loser, because it'll refund your
payment.

You'll have to arrange to do that at another time. Or not, and live
with the clutter. Or simply use your .apk as the storage for your
characters. That may actually be reasonably space-efficient, unless
the character data is pretty small.

It's not an issue for free/paid, because it's the older, free one
that's being deleted in that case.

But perhaps some components of my idea may be useful, or the code
snippets.

A really BAD idea would be to use the AlarmManager to initiate the
deletion sequence. In fact, MOST uses of the AlarmManager to launch UI
are bad, but this would be particularly evil.

I'd do well as a prank app author, if I didn't have a conscience!

On Mar 26, 8:43 am, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
We are probably in the running for the most active thread now but that’s
great because

this is an important issue that needs to be addressed.

Bob – Thank you. Your solution is a pretty thought out solution. I admit
I
had to print it out and re-read it a few times. I might have a few
questions
coming your way because I think I like what you are doing. Give me a
little
more time to make sure I understand what you are doing.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+
unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE
ME as the subject.

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-27 Thread chris harper

popular than others, etc. Tons of stuff you can control
from this aspect of it. If a user already set up a google checkout account,
how hard is it to utilize this in-app/game so that you can use it to charge
and then download in-app/game right away? If they haven't set up an account
to buy anything on market, they are going to have to fill in that info
anyway to buy anything. Actually.. come to think of it.. if you charge for
your main app..they already set it up. I would have thought the info would
be in some way available..not their private stuff, but the google checkout
info, so that you could utilize it somehow? I'll have to look into it more
as this is how I would do it.

Another thought..perhaps to get more virtual toon sales, give your game
away (if you aren't already), with 1 toon, and put your own little
splash-screen ads for other toons as the app loads up. This may interest
users in supporting your app and buying even more toons than if they already
paid for the app. Also, look at custom creation of toons/avatars.. for
perhaps a $2 charge for example. Again, not at all clear on your app and
it's ideas, but just some food for thought on how you might make a little
more from it.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 7:46 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

Yes I know. Warren brought that up. But the game changer was when I
found out that I can remove:

category android:name=android.intent.category.LAUNCHER /

from the manifet.xml which hides the new app's from the user (hides the
clutter) and also doesn't allow the user to start it them on their own.

So then I can just keep the new install apps behind the scenes and they
don't clutter the users drawer. So there is not as much of an importance to
delete them right away.

What I might do is run checks for the install apps after a safe time (like
a week). Then prompt the user and ask them if they want to clean them up
(i.e remove them) letting them know that removing them DOES NOT remove the
character. This way in the long run they don't have a bunch stacked up
behind the scenes that they don't know about.

I do plan to make the character apps as small as I can and put as much of
the logic in the main app as I can.

So many little details we have to deal with...
-Chris

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Bob Kerns r...@acm.org wrote:

Thanks. But it slipped my mind as I was writing it that immediately
deleting the new app is going to be a loser, because it'll refund your
payment.

It's not an issue for free/paid, because it's the older, free one
that's being deleted in that case.

But perhaps some components of my idea may be useful, or the code
snippets.

A really BAD idea would be to use the AlarmManager to initiate the
deletion sequence. In fact, MOST uses of the AlarmManager to launch UI
are bad, but this would be particularly evil.

I'd do well as a prank app author, if I didn't have a conscience!

On Mar 26, 8:43 am, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
We are probably in the running for the most active thread now but
that’s
great because

this is an important issue that needs to be addressed.

Bob – Thank you. Your solution is a pretty thought out solution. I
admit I
had to print it out and re-read it a few times. I might have a few
questions
coming your way because I think I like what you are doing. Give me a
little
more time to make sure I understand what you are doing.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+
unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words
REMOVE ME as the subject.

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To post

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-27 Thread chris harper

Good point Kevin

Although we can't just look at this from the coder implementation point of
view (my website, using paypal, market place etc). We have to think how
people buy crap.
If the highest chance that they will have an account with Market place then
that will makes a big difference for how many people buy additional content
for your game. For the simple fact of impulse buying.

If all they have to do is click ok, there is a lot lower chance that they
actually think much about it (especially if you charge like .99). They are
caught up in your game its a two second click. Trasaction done.

If they have to stop to pull out their cc or look up a paypal account then
they actually start to think about that transaction. Do I REALLY want to
pay .99 for this? Eh...maybe not.

Its not being sneaky, it's just how people shop.

I know. I have done it.

;-)

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:

Hmm.. just looked up google checkout.. turns out paypal and google checkout
charge .30 + 2.9%.. so you're still stuck losing 30% for a $1 fee.. actually
2.9% more. So what, .33 per toon. Still.. not a big deal if it's utilized..
making 67% or so is great, especially if more and more people buy virtual
goods.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 7:46 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

Yes I know. Warren brought that up. But the game changer was when I
found out that I can remove:

category android:name=android.intent.category.LAUNCHER /

from the manifet.xml which hides the new app's from the user (hides the
clutter) and also doesn't allow the user to start it them on their own.

So then I can just keep the new install apps behind the scenes and they
don't clutter the users drawer. So there is not as much of an importance to
delete them right away.

What I might do is run checks for the install apps after a safe time (like
a week). Then prompt the user and ask them if they want to clean them up
(i.e remove them) letting them know that removing them DOES NOT remove the
character. This way in the long run they don't have a bunch stacked up
behind the scenes that they don't know about.

I do plan to make the character apps as small as I can and put as much of
the logic in the main app as I can.

So many little details we have to deal with...
-Chris

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Bob Kerns r...@acm.org wrote:

Thanks. But it slipped my mind as I was writing it that immediately
deleting the new app is going to be a loser, because it'll refund your
payment.

It's not an issue for free/paid, because it's the older, free one
that's being deleted in that case.

But perhaps some components of my idea may be useful, or the code
snippets.

A really BAD idea would be to use the AlarmManager to initiate the
deletion sequence. In fact, MOST uses of the AlarmManager to launch UI
are bad, but this would be particularly evil.

I'd do well as a prank app author, if I didn't have a conscience!

On Mar 26, 8:43 am, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
We are probably in the running for the most active thread now but
that’s
great because

this is an important issue that needs to be addressed.

Bob – Thank you. Your solution is a pretty thought out solution. I
admit I
had to print it out and re-read it a few times. I might have a few
questions
coming your way because I think I like what you are doing. Give me a
little
more time to make sure I understand what you are doing.

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-26 Thread chris harper

We are probably in the running for the most active thread now but that’s
great because

this is an important issue that needs to be addressed.

Bob – Thank you. Your solution is a pretty thought out solution. I admit I
had to print it out and re-read it a few times. I might have a few questions
coming your way because I think I like what you are doing. Give me a little
more time to make sure I understand what you are doing.

String – Congrats on doing what many have failed to do. Get an answer from
someone at google about app’s doing their own in-app purchasing. We need to
post that in bold someplace. I hope you bought his dessert for him. That
closes the can on a big question we have all be wanting a simple answer to
(right Kevin, Warren?). The idea of Google user creds is very good. I still
REALLY like that fact since the user is already using android then they
probably already have an account though Market place and REALLY want to tap
into that. As far as account setup it’s pretty much a given in my opinion.
They just have to “ok” a transaction though my app and download the install
app for the character. We are talking mobile here so people are messing with
their phone while doing something else a lot of the time. If you can set it
up so they just click “ok” and not have to mess with setting anything up
then that has to make a difference in the amount of people you get
purchasing extras.

Westmeadboy – I agree with you. Last night knowing that I can hide my
install app’s from the user and access them though the main app, well I can
just modify my design so all the resources for each character are contained
in their own install app’s (images, sounds etc..) and the main app can just
access them via the assetManager. This will allow the install app’s very
“lean” and in turn make downloading them quick for the user.

That way my virtual content (i.e. my characters) truly are just “modules”
that my main uses. Then my main app just accesses the “modules” for each
character when a user wants to add/remove or update a character.

Flooding the market. Maybe. But on a separate point many other threads have
been asking (even pleading) Google to upgrade the market. I don’t want to
wait because they have been very slow to respond in doing that. Maybe
flooding the market will actually SHOW them that the market NEEDS to be
changed. They need to maybe create an “addon” category so developers can do
what we are taking about and app users can then search for add-on’s for
specific apps? In your last post “LAUNCHER intent, the system won't give the
user the option to open it, from anywhere.” That is want I seen when I
played with it last night, but that is perfect for my design because A. The
install app’s are hidden and B. They can only access them via the main app.

Bob – I am re-reading. I like what you are doing.

-Chris

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:34 AM, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

On Mar 26, 11:54 am, String sterling.ud...@googlemail.com wrote:
If your add-on app doesn't have a LAUNCHER intent, the system won't
give the user the option to open it, from anywhere.

I thought using category INFO also allows the user to click Open in
the Market app once the downloaded app has installed?

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Re: [android-developers] How access restricted contacts in third party app

2010-03-26 Thread chris harper

I would think that is what is meant by restricted.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:15 AM, piyu spk2p...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi All,

I am developing a sync application which can sync multiple sync
account contacts in server. To take a backup of all contacts I am
reading raw_contacts from Raw_contacts table but problem is I am not
getting restricted contacts of facebook and others in query for
Raw_Contacts.ContentUri.
Is there any way to read restricted contacts.
Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-26 Thread chris harper

That is a great idea and out of the box (which is good) building a .apk
dynamically.

The Market place does not yet have the ability to search per app (which I
agree if add on's start to come more common that will be needed). The way I
am planning on getting around that (hopefully temporarily) is that within my
app I still plan to open a page to my website where all my characters are
and they can select them from there.  Once they select a character it then
links to the .apk within the market place for that character.

I admit the downside is they can't select multiple characters for one check
out which is where you idea would be ideal. But I think its the best I can
currently do until the Market place changes.

One question I do have though. I have yet to publish an app on the Market
(this will be my first one).
How long is the process take when you submit an app to when it is available
on the market?
I really don't know. For your idea that would probably be my first question
and its not an issue with your idea but more an issue of the Market place.
Is it immediately? Or does it take a few days?

If it takes a few days you can see how it would make a user upset if they
ordered something and they have to wait days to get it.

If it is immediately than you might have given me an idea for version two of
my app (if people like version one that is).

I hope to get my first install app working with my main app by the end of
the weekend to add/remove my characters.

-Chris



On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have a sort of twist idea to the market problem... not sure this can be
 done, but I think it could be possible.

 Imagine you have an app that allows for virtual goods. You have dozens of
 goods for sale. Even better, you have an open-ended API that allows OTHER
 developers/users to create goods for your game/app and sell them. Yay..
 revenue streams are good.

 Now, many users will probably buy one good here, one good there... but
 often times, you'll have a lot of users who want to purchase several goods.
 We surely don't want to deter the multi-goods buyer. That's more money in
 our pocket. The problem with the way you're doing it Chris (not a problem as
 in bad..just for this example), is that they would have to search/find/buy
 individual downloads for each good they wanted.

 What if your users could build up a cart full of items they want, check out
 just once, and behind the scenes, your server side builds up a single .apk
 with those goods, put's it out on the market, then sends them an email link
 for them to access from their android device when its deployed to market. At
 that time, they can then purchase the whole pack at once, through the
 market, and then utilize what you are doing Chris, where your main app can
 make use of all the goods from that install, and if not refunded in 48
 hours... uninstall/delete the .apk off the device to avoid taking up room.

 Ok, I don't know that I would implement this, but I imagine it's got to be
 possible.

 On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 8:43 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 We are probably in the running for the most active thread now but that’s
 great because

 this is an important issue that needs to be addressed.



 Bob – Thank you. Your solution is a pretty thought out solution. I admit I
 had to print it out and re-read it a few times. I might have a few questions
 coming your way because I think I like what you are doing. Give me a little
 more time to make sure I understand what you are doing.



 String – Congrats on doing what many have failed to do. Get an answer from
 someone at google about app’s doing their own in-app purchasing. We need to
 post that in bold someplace.  I hope you bought his dessert for him. That
 closes the can on a big question we have all be wanting a simple answer to
 (right Kevin, Warren?). The idea of  Google user creds is very good. I
 still REALLY like that fact since the user is already using android then
 they probably already have an account though Market place and REALLY want to
 tap into that. As far as account setup it’s pretty much a given in my
 opinion. They just have to “ok” a transaction though my app and download the
 install app for the character. We are talking mobile here so people are
 messing with their phone while doing something else a lot of the time. If
 you can set it up so they just click “ok” and not have to mess with setting
 anything up then that has to make a difference in the amount of people you
 get purchasing extras.



 Westmeadboy – I agree with you. Last night knowing that I can hide my
 install app’s from the user and access them though the main app, well I can
 just modify my design so all the resources for each character are contained
 in their own install app’s (images, sounds etc..) and the main app can just
 access them via the assetManager. This will allow the install app’s very
 “lean” and in turn make downloading them

[android-developers] Speech Recognition question

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

Hi

I know to recognize speech from the user holding the phone you can use
Recognizer Intent. Cool.

Has anyone tried (or is it possible) to use Recognizer Intent to
detect when someone on the phone is talking?

I imagine this would have to be tied somehow to:

 VOICE_UPLINK_INPUT = 1
 or
 VOICE_DOWNLINK_INPUT = 2

If not with RecognizerIntent is there any creative ideas on how it
might be done in real time like RecognizerIntent works?

Not by recording it to to a file with media recorder but in real
time.

I don't need anything fancy here. I do not need to recognize words and
all that.
All I need to do is to detect when the person on the phone is talking
vs not talking.

I am thinking there has to be a way. It's just a different audio
source. Right?

Thank you for any help
-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

Shane

Kevin and I have been heavily involved in this because we both require
in-app billing for virtual items within our apps.

Actually this morning (as Kevin knows) I am trying to decide which way to
go.

I can either have my app access my website, require my users to enter
account information on my site and then download my virtual content from my
website within my app (which it will install it for them).

Or I can find a way to make my virtual content available though Market place
and have my virtual content available via apk downloads. For me (and Kevin
probably agrees) the biggest advantage of using Market place is that users
are fimular with it and if they don't have to re-enter their account
information a second time from a source they don't know much about (i.e my
site) and instead use market place so all they have to do is hit ok to
confirm that will make a HUGE difference in the amount of users that will
pay for virtual content because its a two second click VS re-entering all
their account info again from an unknown source.

As a developer of an app that is a HUGE incentive for me to use Market place
and worth the extra time for me to think of a way to make it work.

I am just trying to design a way to make the virtual content available so
they don' t end up with dosens of apk files downloaded (one for each virtual
content they purchase). I am currently thinking of an install apk app
(different than my main app to make it small and lean for downloads) that
can maybe get updates depending on which virtual content is purchased.
Then that app talks to my main app to install my virtual content that my
main app uses.

I am currently researching what is involved when you do an update to a
current apk.

That's where I currently am right now.

-Chris

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.comwrote:

I thought I'd briefly jump in on this discussion. I'm looking into
providing a virtual currency/in-app billing solution for ZappMarket.
ZappMarket is focused on paid app developers.

I'd like to talk with developers (either on-list or you can send me an
e-mail) about what your specific needs are for virtual currency and in-app
billing. Largely at a technical level in terms of APIs you would find useful
and whether you are looking for a basic set of interactions like
check_balance, pay or for something more sophisticated that would also
manage codes and virtual goods themselves.

Based on your feedback, I can put up a trial solution that we can test and
then go from there.

Thanks,
Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket)
http://twitter.com/sisbell
http://twitter.com/zappstore
http://zappmarket.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+
unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE
ME as the subject.

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:50 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 Shane

 Kevin and I have been heavily involved in this because we both require
 in-app billing for virtual items within our apps.

 Actually this morning (as Kevin knows) I am trying to decide which way to
 go.

 I can either have my app access my website, require my users to enter
 account information on my site and then download my virtual content from my
 website within my app (which it will install it for them).

 Or I can find a way to make my virtual content available though Market
 place and have my virtual content available via apk downloads.  For me (and
 Kevin probably agrees) the biggest advantage of using Market place is that
 users are fimular with it and if they don't have to re-enter their account
 information a second time from a source they don't know much about (i.e my
 site) and instead use market place so all they have to do is hit ok to
 confirm that will make a HUGE difference in the amount of users that will
 pay for virtual content because its a two second click VS re-entering all
 their account info again from an unknown source.

 As a developer of an app that is a HUGE incentive for me to use Market
 place and worth the extra time for me to think of a way to make it work.

 I am just trying to design a way to make the virtual content available so
 they don' t end up with dosens of apk files downloaded (one for each virtual
 content they purchase). I am currently thinking of an install apk app
 (different than my main app to make it small and lean for downloads) that
 can maybe get updates depending on which virtual content is purchased.
 Then that app talks to my main app to install my virtual content that my
 main app uses.

 I am currently researching what is involved when you do an update to a
 current apk.

 That's where I currently am right now.

 -Chris



 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.comwrote:

 I thought I'd briefly jump in on this discussion. I'm looking into
 providing a virtual currency/in-app billing solution for ZappMarket.
 ZappMarket is focused on paid app developers.

 I'd like to talk with developers (either on-list or you can send me an
 e-mail) about what your specific needs are for virtual currency and in-app
 billing. Largely at a technical level in terms of APIs you would find useful
 and whether you are looking for a basic set of interactions like
 check_balance, pay or for something more sophisticated that would also
 manage codes and virtual goods themselves.

 Based on your feedback, I can put up a trial solution that we can test
 and then go from there.

 Thanks,
 Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket)
 http://twitter.com/sisbell
 http://twitter.com/zappstore
 http://zappmarket.com

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

Thank you for all the interest guys. Really it helps and it can help feature
developers down the road.

Shane it is tricky and I don't want to do against Googles blessing but their
lack of direction (or more like NO direction) on what developers should do
for virtual content has kind of backed us into this corner of how can I
provide virtual content for my app?.

I THINK I am close.

The instructions for the characters are stored in the sqlite database. Where
the instructions for each character contain how to move, what images to use,
what sounds to play, different animation characteristics for each etc... but
the logic to RUN the instructions are in the main app. Hince the characters
are modules that my app uses.

Now to do this via Market place I am thinking that I have to create a
different apk intall file for each character.

Where in my main app I am using webview to go to my site to view additoinal
characters but once they select a character from my website then actual
checkout can be linked to the Market and to the .apk “installer” for just
that character.
They select the ok, they download the .apk for that character. Then the
user (or maybe my main app can run the .apk installer pragmatically) runs the
install .apk. That runs which populates the database (which is used buy
the main app) with the character instructions and the installer places the
images and sounds on the phone for the main program to access for that
character. Now the character is installed.

Now that would create a ton of .apk install app's on the phone (one for
each character). But I did find where a .apk can uninstall itself via:

*Uri packageURI = Uri.parse(package:com.android.myapp);
Intent uninstallIntent = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_DELETE, packageURI);* *
* *startActivity(uninstallIntent);*

* *

*So after each install runs and installs the character then the installer
for that character can then remove itself. *

*Where I don’t need the installer to uninstall the character. The Main App
has that functionality.*

* *

*The problem I have is when the install app uninstall’s itself it asks for
permission (which it should), but that can be confusing for the user who
JUST download it (and now it’s asking to be uninstalled??)*

* *

*So I think I am in the ballpark, unless anyone sees anything I have
overlooked?*

*-Chris
*

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.comwrote:

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.comwrote:

Sure there is - when you load the saved game (or the app, or whatever)
check the content (characters, etc) against the installed applications.

Then you are back to the case of having a bunch of apks installed on the
user's device, which I believe was the issue Chris was trying to avoid. In
any case, it looks like a tricky problem to get this to work in Android
Market without Google's blessing.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Chris,

One other problem that may occur is that users purchase additional APKs
(or virtual goods) and then after receiving them, simply ask for a refund on
the APK. This allows them to keep your installer and main app and get as
many add-ons and additional content as they want for free. There is no way
to revoke the content once a refund has been issued.

Shane

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+
unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words
REMOVE ME as the subject.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+
unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE
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--
Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket)
http://twitter.com/sisbell
http://twitter.com/zappstore
http://zappmarket.com

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

Will an uninstall trigger a refund? If so maybe I just don't do a refund? I
don't deal with it?

Is that an option? Can we do that?

I plan on only charging .99 for a character.

My main free app will contain two default characters (to get the user
hooked).

So if they really likes the app and they think the characters are funny (I
have spent a lot of time on them) then they are more likely to still buy
another one if there is no refund...because it's ONLY  .99 after all??

What do you think? Great point though. Thank you.






On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:

 *So I think I am in the ballpark, unless anyone sees anything I have
 overlooked?*


 I think you overlooked something big. You plan to leave the data on
 the phone and uninstall the app. That works. But suppose I download
 the a character app, install the character, then immediately refund?
 Wouldn't I keep the character data?

 Also, if you auto-uninstall within the refund period, will that
 trigger a refund?

 If so, you guarantee 0 revenue.



 On Mar 25, 3:14 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thank you for all the interest guys. Really it helps and it can help
 feature
  developers down the road.
 
  Shane it is tricky and I don't want to do against Googles blessing but
 their
  lack of direction (or more like NO direction) on what developers should
 do
  for virtual content has kind of backed us into this corner of how can I
  provide virtual content for my app?.
 
  I THINK I am close.
 
  The instructions for the characters are stored in the sqlite database.
 Where
  the instructions for each character contain how to move, what images to
 use,
  what sounds to play, different animation characteristics for each etc...
 but
  the logic to RUN the instructions are in the main app. Hince the
 characters
  are modules that my app uses.
 
  Now to do this via Market place I am thinking that I have to create a
  different apk intall file for each character.
 
  Where in my main app I am using webview to go to my site to view
 additoinal
  characters but once they select a character from my website then actual
  checkout can be linked to  the Market and to the .apk “installer” for
 just
  that character.
  They select the ok, they download the .apk for that character. Then the
  user (or maybe my main app can run the .apk  installer pragmatically)
 runs  the
  install .apk. That  runs which populates the database (which is used
 buy
  the main app) with the character instructions and the installer places
 the
  images and sounds on the phone for the main program to access for that
  character. Now the character is installed.
 
  Now that would create a ton of .apk install app's on the phone (one for
  each character). But  I did find where a .apk can uninstall itself via:
 
  *Uri packageURI = Uri.parse(package:com.android.myapp);
  Intent uninstallIntent = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_DELETE, packageURI);* *
  * *startActivity(uninstallIntent);*
 
  * *
 
  *So after each install runs and installs the character then the installer
  for that character can then remove itself. *
 
  *Where I don’t need the installer to uninstall the character. The Main
 App
  has that functionality.*
 
  * *
 
  *The problem I have is when the install app uninstall’s itself  it asks
 for
  permission (which it should), but that can be confusing for the user who
  JUST download it (and now it’s asking to be uninstalled??)*
 
  * *
 
  *So I think I am in the ballpark, unless anyone sees anything I have
  overlooked?*
 
  **
 
  **
 
  *-Chris
  *
 
  On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
   On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Sure there is - when you load the saved game (or the app, or whatever)
   check the content (characters, etc) against the installed
 applications.
 
   Then you are back to the case of having a bunch of apks installed on
 the
   user's device, which I believe was the issue Chris was trying to avoid.
 In
   any case, it looks like a tricky problem to get this to work in Android
   Market without Google's blessing.
 
   On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Shane Isbell shane.isb...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Hi Chris,
 
   One other problem that may occur is that users purchase additional
 APKs
   (or virtual goods) and then after receiving them, simply ask for a
 refund on
   the APK. This allows them to keep your installer and main app and get
 as
   many add-ons and additional content as they want for free. There is
 no way
   to revoke the content once a refund has been issued.
 
   Shane
 
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 android-developers@googlegroups.com
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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

Warren

I think you are right. I think if I do an uninstall on the app before the 24
hour period then it refunds. Thanks for catching that.

Which leaves only one option.

The install app can have two buttons on it.
One to: Remove just the Install app
and another to: Remove the install app AND the Character

So the USER has the option of removing either just the install app (so the
phone doesn't get cluttered with apk install files) OR removing the install
app AND the character.

If they select EITHER button before the the 24 hour period for a refund then
both the install app and the character are removed.

Which this can all be explained to the user within the install app.

That should work. I would think?

Rob
I just took a look at them. The MAIN thing I am trying to accomplish is to
make my characters available without requiring the user to enter finical
information again.

 I really believe if they don't have to do that and instead they just click
on submit to buy another character that will make a HUGE difference in the
amount of people that will buy my characters because its a two second thing
for them.

They are at the DMV for example and board and like the characters in my app
(which they downloaded because it was free), so why not try another
character for .99 if they just have to click ok??

If I can just make it as seem-less as possible for an install apk to work
with my main app this would be a great thing (as well as other developers
like Warren).

-Chris

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Rob Mazur r...@mobalyze.net wrote:

 Chris, have you tried creating an account on ScoreLoop? Once logged in
 they have a note at the bottom about their Android SDK. They are
 making it available to a few developers and you can email them if you
 are interested.

 IMO, until Google builds an in-app payment system, the best bet is to
 go with a company like ScoreLoop. I did read somewhere that they take
 a pretty hefty cut, but I don't know of any other options out there. I
 checked out OpenFeint but didn't see anything about Android. Plus this
 should only be temporary cuz it just wouldn't make sense for Google to
 miss out on the potential revenue available.


 On Mar 25, 4:36 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Will an uninstall trigger a refund? If so maybe I just don't do a refund?
 I
  don't deal with it?
 
  Is that an option? Can we do that?
 
  I plan on only charging .99 for a character.
 
  My main free app will contain two default characters (to get the user
  hooked).
 
  So if they really likes the app and they think the characters are funny
 (I
  have spent a lot of time on them) then they are more likely to still buy
  another one if there is no refund...because it's ONLY  .99 after all??
 
  What do you think? Great point though. Thank you.
 
 
 
  On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:
   *So I think I am in the ballpark, unless anyone sees anything I have
   overlooked?*
 
   I think you overlooked something big. You plan to leave the data on
   the phone and uninstall the app. That works. But suppose I download
   the a character app, install the character, then immediately refund?
   Wouldn't I keep the character data?
 
   Also, if you auto-uninstall within the refund period, will that
   trigger a refund?
 
   If so, you guarantee 0 revenue.
 
   On Mar 25, 3:14 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you for all the interest guys. Really it helps and it can help
   feature
developers down the road.
 
Shane it is tricky and I don't want to do against Googles blessing
 but
   their
lack of direction (or more like NO direction) on what developers
 should
   do
for virtual content has kind of backed us into this corner of how
 can I
provide virtual content for my app?.
 
I THINK I am close.
 
The instructions for the characters are stored in the sqlite
 database.
   Where
the instructions for each character contain how to move, what images
 to
   use,
what sounds to play, different animation characteristics for each
 etc...
   but
the logic to RUN the instructions are in the main app. Hince the
   characters
are modules that my app uses.
 
Now to do this via Market place I am thinking that I have to create a
different apk intall file for each character.
 
Where in my main app I am using webview to go to my site to view
   additoinal
characters but once they select a character from my website then
 actual
checkout can be linked to  the Market and to the .apk “installer” for
   just
that character.
They select the ok, they download the .apk for that character. Then
 the
user (or maybe my main app can run the .apk  installer pragmatically)
   runs  the
install .apk. That  runs which populates the database (which is
 used
   buy
the main app) with the character instructions and the installer
 places
   the
images and sounds on the phone for the main program

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

Thanks guys



Rob/Kevin



You guys are really give me some ideas here.



Thank you for the advice on score loop but I don’t think I can user it
because my app doesn’t keep scores or interact with my app on other phones.
It’s not really a game.

So I am not sure if that will benefit me? I looked though scoreloop but it
looks like it is for comparing scores with other users within a social
network. Am I right?



Rob – I was actually thinking right along that same track. Each install app
keeps a timer of itself when it was installed and asks to be uninstalled
after 48 hours, BUT makes it clear to the user that uninstalling the install
app does NOT remove the character from the main app.



Kevin -  you gave me a great idea very close to what you suggested. I do
have a server side set up. Like I said I have a website set up with a
shopping cart and everything where I WAS going to make people buy/download
my characters from there.



What if the install .apk not only installs the character like I stated but
also takes the user ID from the database on the phone (which both the
install .apk and the main program share the same sqlite DB) and it sends the
information to the sever like you suggested that this user ID OWNS this
character. So any updates to this character get sent to this user.  If they
uninstall the install app before the 48 hours (for the refund) then before
it uninstalls it updates the server they do not own this character anymore
and this character was removed.



If they remove the .apk install app after the 48 hours (via the prompt like
Rob suggested) they still own the character and get any updates. The
character is not tied with the .apk after the initial install.



They can still remove the character from the main app at any time and that
will also tell the server that they do not own the character anymore.



What do you guys think?


On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wonder if removing the .apks will bring up other issues, like updates?
 For example, maybe not for your specific app, but what if a character .apk
 has a bug in it.. you fix it.. but end users have uninstalled. Now they will
 have to pay/reinstall again to get the updated toon even if they already
 paid/installed before.

 Honestly Chris I don't think this is a viable solution. It's close, but
 not quite there due to the variations of issue that may arise from removing
 the .apk.

 Here's a thought.. do you have a server side at all? If not, do you know
 enough server side to do a quick appengine or, I found a host that charges I
 think $15 a month to host a web app on a tomcat 6 server (I'll have to dig
 it up again)... the idea is.. make a simple server side app that stores a
 user's paid-for characters in a DB. That is.. the user goes to your site,
 pays for a toon. You then update (in some secure/encrypted manner) the DB
 for that user that they own that character. The next time they launch the
 game, some how it pulls the server and down comes any new toons they paid
 for. You can even allow for an SMS push notification that if they don't have
 a wifi/3G connection, but do have cell.. your game could listen for SMS
 messages (or a separate service piece to your game) and your server piece
 can send an SMS message (not sure what API/service allows for this to work
 tho) that when received updates the game for that user. Worse case, they
 don't have SMS enabled services.. and no internet.. then they have to wait
 till they do to get the character toons. Heck, they cant use the market to
 buy them either without network.. so no loss there.



 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Rob Mazur r...@mobalyze.net wrote:

 Maybe you could store the date you detected the new apk in the prefs
 and say after refund period has expired you throw a dialog that tells
 the user they can now uninstall the addon pack.

 So for a few days (2 or 3 to be safe) your code checks that the apk is
 still there, if not then remove the character. Once the refund period
 has expired you throw up the dialog and can even kickoff the uninstall
 nicely with an intent. In your app description just make sure to
 inform them that they should not uninstall until directed, otherwise
 they will lose the character. But that the app will notify them when
 they can safely uninstall.

 On Mar 25, 5:11 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Warren
 
  I think you are right. I think if I do an uninstall on the app before
 the 24
  hour period then it refunds. Thanks for catching that.
 
  Which leaves only one option.
 
  The install app can have two buttons on it.
  One to: Remove just the Install app
  and another to: Remove the install app AND the Character
 
  So the USER has the option of removing either just the install app (so
 the
  phone doesn't get cluttered with apk install files) OR removing the
 install
  app AND the character.
 
  If they select EITHER button before the the 24 hour period for a refund

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

Warren you comments are always welcome. Thank you

The way I am thinking of it is different.

If the user uninstalls the Install app within 48 it removes BOTH the install
app and the character and lets the server know that this user does not own
this character anymore.

So in your example the character will be uninstalled.

After 48 hours they can just remove the Install App which will NOT update
the server, so the user still owns the character and it is still installed.

So when the main app starts up again (48 hours or a week later) it reads the
database to reads in the installed characters.

I think that will work. Actually. Right?

I'll check and try the uninstall intent thank you.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think there's an uninstall intent that you can hook into. If you go
 this route, you should check into that, because there are other ways
 to uninstall your app than through the interface you set up.

 Here's an example of how this could go wrong (not trying to be overly
 negative, just trying to help)

 user installs character app which creates timestamp and installs data
 user uninstalls character app manually within 48 hours
 user does not use main app for 48 hours
 the main app checks the timestamp and sees that 48 hours have elapsed,
 so the data can be kept and used



 On Mar 25, 5:09 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thanks guys
 
  Rob/Kevin
 
  You guys are really give me some ideas here.
 
  Thank you for the advice on score loop but I don’t think I can user it
  because my app doesn’t keep scores or interact with my app on other
 phones.
  It’s not really a game.
 
  So I am not sure if that will benefit me? I looked though scoreloop but
 it
  looks like it is for comparing scores with other users within a social
  network. Am I right?
 
  Rob – I was actually thinking right along that same track. Each install
 app
  keeps a timer of itself when it was installed and asks to be uninstalled
  after 48 hours, BUT makes it clear to the user that uninstalling the
 install
  app does NOT remove the character from the main app.
 
  Kevin -  you gave me a great idea very close to what you suggested. I do
  have a server side set up. Like I said I have a website set up with a
  shopping cart and everything where I WAS going to make people
 buy/download
  my characters from there.
 
  What if the install .apk not only installs the character like I stated
 but
  also takes the user ID from the database on the phone (which both the
  install .apk and the main program share the same sqlite DB) and it sends
 the
  information to the sever like you suggested that this user ID OWNS this
  character. So any updates to this character get sent to this user.  If
 they
  uninstall the install app before the 48 hours (for the refund) then
 before
  it uninstalls it updates the server they do not own this character
 anymore
  and this character was removed.
 
  If they remove the .apk install app after the 48 hours (via the prompt
 like
  Rob suggested) they still own the character and get any updates. The
  character is not tied with the .apk after the initial install.
 
  They can still remove the character from the main app at any time and
 that
  will also tell the server that they do not own the character anymore.
 
  What do you guys think?
 
  On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   I wonder if removing the .apks will bring up other issues, like
 updates?
   For example, maybe not for your specific app, but what if a character
 .apk
   has a bug in it.. you fix it.. but end users have uninstalled. Now they
 will
   have to pay/reinstall again to get the updated toon even if they
 already
   paid/installed before.
 
   Honestly Chris I don't think this is a viable solution. It's close,
 but
   not quite there due to the variations of issue that may arise from
 removing
   the .apk.
 
   Here's a thought.. do you have a server side at all? If not, do you
 know
   enough server side to do a quick appengine or, I found a host that
 charges I
   think $15 a month to host a web app on a tomcat 6 server (I'll have to
 dig
   it up again)... the idea is.. make a simple server side app that stores
 a
   user's paid-for characters in a DB. That is.. the user goes to your
 site,
   pays for a toon. You then update (in some secure/encrypted manner) the
 DB
   for that user that they own that character. The next time they launch
 the
   game, some how it pulls the server and down comes any new toons they
 paid
   for. You can even allow for an SMS push notification that if they don't
 have
   a wifi/3G connection, but do have cell.. your game could listen for SMS
   messages (or a separate service piece to your game) and your server
 piece
   can send an SMS message (not sure what API/service allows for this to
 work
   tho) that when received updates the game for that user. Worse case,
 they
   don't have SMS enabled

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

westmeadboy
We are trying to find a way to make app's install virtual content via the
market. virtual content being movies, mp3 etc..

I didn't know that bout intent filter that is a big help thank you.

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:51 PM, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

 What is your specific reason for wanting to uninstall the character
 apps?

 You can make sure that they do not appear in the app drawer by using
 the relevant intent filter. That would only leave them visible to the
 user when they do something like Settings - Applications or look in
 the Downloads of the Market app.

 On Mar 25, 11:09 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thanks guys
 
  Rob/Kevin
 
  You guys are really give me some ideas here.
 
  Thank you for the advice on score loop but I don’t think I can user it
  because my app doesn’t keep scores or interact with my app on other
 phones.
  It’s not really a game.
 
  So I am not sure if that will benefit me? I looked though scoreloop but
 it
  looks like it is for comparing scores with other users within a social
  network. Am I right?
 
  Rob – I was actually thinking right along that same track. Each install
 app
  keeps a timer of itself when it was installed and asks to be uninstalled
  after 48 hours, BUT makes it clear to the user that uninstalling the
 install
  app does NOT remove the character from the main app.
 
  Kevin -  you gave me a great idea very close to what you suggested. I do
  have a server side set up. Like I said I have a website set up with a
  shopping cart and everything where I WAS going to make people
 buy/download
  my characters from there.
 
  What if the install .apk not only installs the character like I stated
 but
  also takes the user ID from the database on the phone (which both the
  install .apk and the main program share the same sqlite DB) and it sends
 the
  information to the sever like you suggested that this user ID OWNS this
  character. So any updates to this character get sent to this user.  If
 they
  uninstall the install app before the 48 hours (for the refund) then
 before
  it uninstalls it updates the server they do not own this character
 anymore
  and this character was removed.
 
  If they remove the .apk install app after the 48 hours (via the prompt
 like
  Rob suggested) they still own the character and get any updates. The
  character is not tied with the .apk after the initial install.
 
  They can still remove the character from the main app at any time and
 that
  will also tell the server that they do not own the character anymore.
 
  What do you guys think?
 
 
 
  On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   I wonder if removing the .apks will bring up other issues, like
 updates?
   For example, maybe not for your specific app, but what if a character
 .apk
   has a bug in it.. you fix it.. but end users have uninstalled. Now they
 will
   have to pay/reinstall again to get the updated toon even if they
 already
   paid/installed before.
 
   Honestly Chris I don't think this is a viable solution. It's close,
 but
   not quite there due to the variations of issue that may arise from
 removing
   the .apk.
 
   Here's a thought.. do you have a server side at all? If not, do you
 know
   enough server side to do a quick appengine or, I found a host that
 charges I
   think $15 a month to host a web app on a tomcat 6 server (I'll have to
 dig
   it up again)... the idea is.. make a simple server side app that stores
 a
   user's paid-for characters in a DB. That is.. the user goes to your
 site,
   pays for a toon. You then update (in some secure/encrypted manner) the
 DB
   for that user that they own that character. The next time they launch
 the
   game, some how it pulls the server and down comes any new toons they
 paid
   for. You can even allow for an SMS push notification that if they don't
 have
   a wifi/3G connection, but do have cell.. your game could listen for SMS
   messages (or a separate service piece to your game) and your server
 piece
   can send an SMS message (not sure what API/service allows for this to
 work
   tho) that when received updates the game for that user. Worse case,
 they
   don't have SMS enabled services.. and no internet.. then they have to
 wait
   till they do to get the character toons. Heck, they cant use the market
 to
   buy them either without network.. so no loss there.
 
   On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Rob Mazur r...@mobalyze.net wrote:
 
   Maybe you could store the date you detected the new apk in the prefs
   and say after refund period has expired you throw a dialog that tells
   the user they can now uninstall the addon pack.
 
   So for a few days (2 or 3 to be safe) your code checks that the apk is
   still there, if not then remove the character. Once the refund period
   has expired you throw up the dialog and can even kickoff the uninstall
   nicely with an intent. In your app description just make sure

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

westmeadboy

Thank you!
I think you sent me down the right track.

After much discussion on this I believe I found the best way to do this and
I think it will actually work and be transparent to the user. Meaning it
will be seen as one app and not a main and and a bunch of installer
app's.

Here is what I came up with.

I been playing around tonight and westmeadboy is correct in your manifest
file if you take out:

 category android:name=android.intent.category.LAUNCHER /

The app does NOT show up in your drawer.  So this is done for the installer
apk's (not the main program). That is great because then the installer
.apk's won't clutter up the apps for the user. They won't see them.

When  each install .apk for each character is downloaded the installer then
updates the database (which is shared with the main app) with the installer
package and installer app name. So the main app KNOWS what .apk installers
are on the phone for each character which it gets from the database each
time it starts up.

If it knows that and keeps track of them, then dynamically the main app can
call them via:
final Intent intent = new Intent();
String PACKAGENAME = value from database for installer PACKAGE NAME;
String APP_NAME = value from database for installer APP NAME;
 intent.setClassName(PACKAGENAME, APP_NAME);
 startActivity(intent);

I already did it. The installer .apk is hidden and the main app calls them
and to the user it will APPEAR to be the SAME app.

The main app is just calling each installer .apk behind the scenes which the
user can then control the install or removal of each character though it's
individual installer.

When a character is removed then the installer for that character is also
removed.
If they don't like a character and want to remove it for a refund within
the 48 or whatever period then they are refunded for that character and the
installer for that character is gone (it updates the database upon its
removal).

If I need to update a character then I just update the installer app for
that character. The user can then re-download the installer app for that
character whenever they want or get an alert for an update for a character
just like any other program.

I actually think this will work. Anyone see anything I am missing?

-Chris




On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:47 PM, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

 To exclude from the app drawer, I think this explains it:
 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/c4ca26a240d7120b

 BTW, looking at the payments (received) in Google Checkout the actual
 payment goes through always between 24 and 36 hours after
 authorisation. Most of the time its between 26 and 27 hours.

 Authorisation normally happens within a minute of receipt of the
 order, but sometimes takes several hours.

 (Of course, its possible that some payment systems within Google
 Checkout behave differently.)

 Because of the potential authorisation delay, its very difficult to be
 sure when the actual payment has cleared. I suppose 48 hours is safe
 enough...

 On Mar 26, 12:32 am, Rob Mazur r...@mobalyze.net wrote:
  I didn't know you could hide it from the app drawer. If that's the
  case then loading additional apks from a master apk may be a nice
  solution. Then you don't really need anything server-side either.
 
  Do you happen to know which filter does it?
 
  On Mar 25, 6:51 pm, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 
 
 
   What is your specific reason for wanting to uninstall the character
   apps?
 
   You can make sure that they do not appear in the app drawer by using
   the relevant intent filter. That would only leave them visible to the
   user when they do something like Settings - Applications or look in
   the Downloads of the Market app.
 
   On Mar 25, 11:09 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
 
Thanks guys
 
Rob/Kevin
 
You guys are really give me some ideas here.
 
Thank you for the advice on score loop but I don’t think I can user
 it
because my app doesn’t keep scores or interact with my app on other
 phones.
It’s not really a game.
 
So I am not sure if that will benefit me? I looked though scoreloop
 but it
looks like it is for comparing scores with other users within a
 social
network. Am I right?
 
Rob – I was actually thinking right along that same track. Each
 install app
keeps a timer of itself when it was installed and asks to be
 uninstalled
after 48 hours, BUT makes it clear to the user that uninstalling the
 install
app does NOT remove the character from the main app.
 
Kevin -  you gave me a great idea very close to what you suggested. I
 do
have a server side set up. Like I said I have a website set up with a
shopping cart and everything where I WAS going to make people
 buy/download
my characters from there.
 
What if the install .apk not only installs the character like I
 stated but
also takes the user ID from the database on the phone (which

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-25 Thread chris harper

 saying, nobody is saying anything, their
 info isn't nearly clear on the subject, I say rather than worry about .apks,
 installs, etc.. just host the toon packs yourself, and download it directly
 and allow your app to directly add them rather than deal with .apk mess.
 Personally, this is what I would do in your shoes, and will do for my own
 stuff one day.




 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:47 PM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 westmeadboy

 Thank you!
 I think you sent me down the right track.

 After much discussion on this I believe I found the best way to do this
 and I think it will actually work and be transparent to the user. Meaning it
 will be seen as one app and not a main and and a bunch of installer
 app's.

 Here is what I came up with.

 I been playing around tonight and westmeadboy is correct in your manifest
 file if you take out:

  category android:name=android.intent.category.LAUNCHER /

 The app does NOT show up in your drawer.  So this is done for the
 installer apk's (not the main program). That is great because then the
 installer .apk's won't clutter up the apps for the user. They won't see
 them.

 When  each install .apk for each character is downloaded the installer
 then updates the database (which is shared with the main app) with the
 installer package and installer app name. So the main app KNOWS what .apk
 installers are on the phone for each character which it gets from the
 database each time it starts up.

 If it knows that and keeps track of them, then dynamically the main app
 can call them via:
 final Intent intent = new Intent();
 String PACKAGENAME = value from database for installer PACKAGE NAME;
 String APP_NAME = value from database for installer APP NAME;
  intent.setClassName(PACKAGENAME, APP_NAME);
  startActivity(intent);

 I already did it. The installer .apk is hidden and the main app calls
 them and to the user it will APPEAR to be the SAME app.

 The main app is just calling each installer .apk behind the scenes which
 the user can then control the install or removal of each character though
 it's individual installer.

 When a character is removed then the installer for that character is also
 removed.
 If they don't like a character and want to remove it for a refund
 within the 48 or whatever period then they are refunded for that character
 and the installer for that character is gone (it updates the database upon
 its removal).

 If I need to update a character then I just update the installer app for
 that character. The user can then re-download the installer app for that
 character whenever they want or get an alert for an update for a character
 just like any other program.

 I actually think this will work. Anyone see anything I am missing?

 -Chris




 On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:47 PM, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:

 To exclude from the app drawer, I think this explains it:
 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/c4ca26a240d7120b

 BTW, looking at the payments (received) in Google Checkout the actual
 payment goes through always between 24 and 36 hours after
 authorisation. Most of the time its between 26 and 27 hours.

 Authorisation normally happens within a minute of receipt of the
 order, but sometimes takes several hours.

 (Of course, its possible that some payment systems within Google
 Checkout behave differently.)

 Because of the potential authorisation delay, its very difficult to be
 sure when the actual payment has cleared. I suppose 48 hours is safe
 enough...

 On Mar 26, 12:32 am, Rob Mazur r...@mobalyze.net wrote:
  I didn't know you could hide it from the app drawer. If that's the
  case then loading additional apks from a master apk may be a nice
  solution. Then you don't really need anything server-side either.
 
  Do you happen to know which filter does it?
 
  On Mar 25, 6:51 pm, westmeadboy westmead...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 
 
 
   What is your specific reason for wanting to uninstall the character
   apps?
 
   You can make sure that they do not appear in the app drawer by using
   the relevant intent filter. That would only leave them visible to
 the
   user when they do something like Settings - Applications or look in
   the Downloads of the Market app.
 
   On Mar 25, 11:09 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
 
Thanks guys
 
Rob/Kevin
 
You guys are really give me some ideas here.
 
Thank you for the advice on score loop but I don’t think I can
 user it
because my app doesn’t keep scores or interact with my app on
 other phones.
It’s not really a game.
 
So I am not sure if that will benefit me? I looked though
 scoreloop but it
looks like it is for comparing scores with other users within a
 social
network. Am I right?
 
Rob – I was actually thinking right along that same track. Each
 install app
keeps a timer of itself when it was installed and asks to be
 uninstalled
after 48 hours, BUT makes it clear to the user that uninstalling

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-24 Thread chris harper

I hate to say it but I have to agree with Disconnect. I re-read the
agreement and it does say:

3.3 *All fees received* by Developers for Products *distributed* via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.

To me that means any additional money that you make from any product (i.e.
app) that you distribute from the Market must go though the Market's Payment
Processor.
Or another way to put it from Google side. We distributed your app so any
money you make off it then we want our cut.
I don't like it but that is how I read it.
But want is pretty lame is that they are making developers abide to this but
they have not set up the infrastructure to support it.
Meaning the the market does not provide a way to distribute virtual
products one might want a user to buy and upload within their app like a
movie or music or in my case extra characters that my app uses.
There are no Market Libraries that you can use within your app to use to
process a payment though the Market. The Google guys have been silent to
answer this because there is no way to support it.

So *unless anyone that reads this knows of any another way*. The only way I
can see to abide by goggles legal request is to bundle up every single
character I want to sell and upload within my app as as a separate apk and
put it on the market as a separate download.
I don't want to do that but to stay legal then that is the road I am going
to have to take.

Thank you
-Chris

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:36 AM, Jeremy Slade jeremy.g.sl...@gmail.comwrote:

My interpretation, not to be confused with legal advice: Add-on
products purchased via an app do not qualify as products distributed
via the Market. However, something like a pro version of an app,
purchased via a lite version that was distributed via the Market,
would be subject to this part of the agreement. Similarly, ad revenue
earned from a Market app is not subject to this clause, because the
product (for which you are being paid) is ad impressions / clicks,
which are not distributed via the Market.

I don't think I want to be first to prove that interpretation,
however...

On Mar 23, 8:53 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting discussion.

3.3 - All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.

One could argue that fees received by Developers for Products
distributed
via the Market only applies to apps sold through the market. If you then
used your app to allow the user to buy stuff from your website, those
fees
would not be for products distributed via the Market, they would be for
products distributed via your website and would not be subject to being
processed by the Payment Processor.

Thoughts?

-
TreKing - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered deviceshttp://
sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+
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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-24 Thread chris harper

I see your point. I can be read either way. The android tech guys on here
won't comment because it is a legal matter but it would be really really
great if they could at least point us in the direction of WHERE to ask this
question???

There is not a legal discussion forum to ask these things.
*
Please. To the Google engineers reading this. *

You guys really might want to bring up at your next weekly working meeting
(if you have those) that with all these developers creating everything from
X to Z for applications there WILL be many legal questions like this one
that will need to be answered.
So the developers will know what direction to go in on different issues.

We don't want to skirt around anything legal, we just need a place to go for
direction.

So you guys REALLY might want to set up a place where we can go to get these
legal questions answered.

Instead of waiting until they do all the work of developing their app and
getting it out there and THEN telling them oh you can't do this for legal
reason ..whatever.

Just trying to help. I guess I will just send search around to see if I can
find a general android support email and I will send the question there.

For anyone wondering what the question is go up to my last email on this
post about how to do in-app purchasing and the Market Agreement.

-Chris

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Yahel kaye...@gmail.com wrote:

3.3 *All fees received* by Developers for Products *distributed* via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.

To me that means any additional money that you make from any product
(i.e.
app) that you distribute from the Market must go though the Market's
Payment
Processor.

Say I sell gold point, or tickets through my app, then it doesn't fit
into *distributed* via the Market , since it is not distributed
through the Market at all, but through my app.
Intrepretation is in the eye of the beholder...Whatever that means :D

Anyway, there is no need to argue. We need Google's take on it.
Because only them know what they want and don't want.

Yahel

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unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE
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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-24 Thread chris harper

jfarringdon has posted an answer to the question In-App Purchasing for
Applications:

No you should not currently offer in app features that you charge for. It is
against the distribution agreement.

You could offer separate paid apps, and have your main app share these
resources (if you take good care to share, normally apps do not share).
Post back with your solution, it is an interesting question for a number of
people. Good luck, J.

http://www.android.com/us/developer-distribution-agreement.html

View this question at the Google Help Forum
Unsubscribe from answers to this question

jfarringdon

Thank you for the response and exactly what I am designing.

My main app uses Characters where the information about each character are
stored via the sqlite database and the images that make up the character are
stored on phone which my main app uses to load a character when needed.

I will create an installer app for EACH character. The installer app will
contain the information for each new character and the images (which are
under /assets in the apk) and when the user buys an installer app for a
character it will download, run, read in the images from /assets, write them
to the phone and populate the sqlite database with the the character
information. The installer for each character will also uninstall a
character by reversing the process.

So when an installer for character is purchased (though marketplace) and run
to install the character, then my main app can read the database, read the
images and run the character.

I downside is a user can then have accumulate installer apps for each
character on their phone. So I am applying an option to remove the installer
app for each character once the character is installed or they can either
remove it or leave it on their phone.

The characters can be uninstalled from the installer OR from the main
program.
So they don't need the installer app to remove a character.

That is the ONLY way I can think to abide by the Market rules as they stand.

-Chris

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:34 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

There is not a legal discussion forum to ask these things.
*
Please. To the Google engineers reading this. *

We don't want to skirt around anything legal, we just need a place to go
for direction.

So you guys REALLY might want to set up a place where we can go to get
these legal questions answered.

Instead of waiting until they do all the work of developing their app and
getting it out there and THEN telling them oh you can't do this for legal
reason ..whatever.

Just trying to help. I guess I will just send search around to see if I can
find a general android support email and I will send the question there.

For anyone wondering what the question is go up to my last email on this
post about how to do in-app purchasing and the Market Agreement.

-Chris

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Yahel kaye...@gmail.com wrote:

3.3 *All fees received* by Developers for Products *distributed* via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.

To me that means any additional money that you make from any product
(i.e.
app) that you distribute from the Market must go though the Market's
Payment
Processor.

Anyway, there is no need to argue. We need Google's take on it.
Because only them know what they want and don't want.

Yahel

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+
unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words REMOVE
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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-24 Thread chris harper

Warren

That is correct. All the features for my app are always there, they never
change.

My app is just USED to load and run the characters (which are little modules
that my app uses that I want to charge for).

This is completely different than charging for an upgrade.

The same way you can put itunes on your PC but itunes is USED to load and
run mp3's (which you buy).

Or using VLC media player (which is free) which is USED to load and run
movies.

But the way I read the agreement Google still wants to any revenue made from
the app to go though market place.
Which to me means that I have make it so all my characters as separate
downloads in market place via a separate installer for each character which
I CAN charge for.

Unless I am am understanding that wrong which would be nice.

-Chris


On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:

 I want to point out, because this has been part of the confusion the
 whole time, that he says, No you should not currently offer in app
 features that you charge for.

 Did you get that? The you should not charge for features.

 So suppose, as in Chris' case, you want to load extra character
 models. Well, one of the features of your app is the ability to load
 external models. They could be from the original developer, or I
 suppose someone else could design one and send it to you as well. Even
 if you don't have any characters installed/loaded, the feature to load
 them is still there and it is free.

 This is not that different from the mp3 comparison made earlier. The
 application offers a feature, the ability to play songs, no matter
 where the song files came from. Adding or removing mp3 files does not
 change the features of the music app.






 On Mar 24, 1:02 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  jfarringdon has posted an answer to the question In-App Purchasing for
  Applications:
 
  No you should not currently offer in app features that you charge for. It
 is
  against the distribution agreement.
 
  You could offer separate paid apps, and have your main app share these
  resources (if you take good care to share, normally apps do not share).
  Post back with your solution, it is an interesting question for a number
 of
  people. Good luck, J.
 
  http://www.android.com/us/developer-distribution-agreement.html
 
  View this question at the Google Help Forum
  Unsubscribe from answers to this question
 
  jfarringdon
 
  Thank you for the response and exactly what I am designing.
 
  My main app uses Characters where the information about each character
 are
  stored via the sqlite database and the images that make up the character
 are
  stored on phone which my main app uses to load a character when needed.
 
  I will create an installer app for EACH character. The installer app
 will
  contain the information for each new character and the images (which are
  under /assets in the apk) and when the user buys an installer app for a
  character it will download, run, read in the images from /assets, write
 them
  to the phone and populate the sqlite database with the the character
  information.  The installer for each character will also uninstall a
  character by reversing the process.
 
  So when an installer for character is purchased (though marketplace) and
 run
  to install the character, then my main app can read the database, read
 the
  images and run the character.
 
  I downside is a user can then have accumulate installer apps for each
  character on their phone. So I am applying an option to remove the
 installer
  app for each character once the character is installed or they can either
  remove it or leave it on their phone.
 
  The characters can be uninstalled from the installer OR from the main
  program.
  So they don't need the installer app to remove a character.
 
  That is the ONLY way I can think to abide by the Market rules as they
 stand.
 
  -Chris
 
  On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:34 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   I see your point. I can be read either way. The android tech guys on
 here
   won't comment because it is a legal matter but it would be really
 really
   great if they could at least point us in the direction of WHERE to ask
 this
   question???
 
   There is not a legal discussion forum to ask these things.
   *
   Please.  To the Google engineers reading this. *
 
   You guys really might want to bring up at your next weekly working
 meeting
   (if you have those) that with all these developers creating everything
 from
   X to Z for applications there WILL be many legal questions like this
 one
   that will need to be answered.
   So the developers will know what direction to go in on different
 issues.
 
   We don't want to skirt around anything legal, we just need a place to
 go
   for direction.
 
   So you guys REALLY might want to set up a place where we can go to get
   these legal questions answered.
 
   Instead of waiting until they do all the work

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-24 Thread chris harper

Sorry Warren I didn't check over there. I will post the same response.

-Chris

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here is where the discussion landed on the Market support forum.


 http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Android+Market/thread?tid=3c47284987b99696hl=en


 On Mar 24, 1:41 pm, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:
  I want to point out, because this has been part of the confusion the
  whole time, that he says, No you should not currently offer in app
  features that you charge for.
 
  Did you get that? The you should not charge for features.
 
  So suppose, as in Chris' case, you want to load extra character
  models. Well, one of the features of your app is the ability to load
  external models. They could be from the original developer, or I
  suppose someone else could design one and send it to you as well. Even
  if you don't have any characters installed/loaded, the feature to load
  them is still there and it is free.
 
  This is not that different from the mp3 comparison made earlier. The
  application offers a feature, the ability to play songs, no matter
  where the song files came from. Adding or removing mp3 files does not
  change the features of the music app.
 
  On Mar 24, 1:02 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   jfarringdon has posted an answer to the question In-App Purchasing for
   Applications:
 
   No you should not currently offer in app features that you charge for.
 It is
   against the distribution agreement.
 
   You could offer separate paid apps, and have your main app share these
   resources (if you take good care to share, normally apps do not share).
   Post back with your solution, it is an interesting question for a
 number of
   people. Good luck, J.
 
  http://www.android.com/us/developer-distribution-agreement.html
 
   View this question at the Google Help Forum
   Unsubscribe from answers to this question
 
   jfarringdon
 
   Thank you for the response and exactly what I am designing.
 
   My main app uses Characters where the information about each character
 are
   stored via the sqlite database and the images that make up the
 character are
   stored on phone which my main app uses to load a character when needed.
 
   I will create an installer app for EACH character. The installer app
 will
   contain the information for each new character and the images (which
 are
   under /assets in the apk) and when the user buys an installer app for a
   character it will download, run, read in the images from /assets, write
 them
   to the phone and populate the sqlite database with the the character
   information.  The installer for each character will also uninstall a
   character by reversing the process.
 
   So when an installer for character is purchased (though marketplace)
 and run
   to install the character, then my main app can read the database, read
 the
   images and run the character.
 
   I downside is a user can then have accumulate installer apps for each
   character on their phone. So I am applying an option to remove the
 installer
   app for each character once the character is installed or they can
 either
   remove it or leave it on their phone.
 
   The characters can be uninstalled from the installer OR from the main
   program.
   So they don't need the installer app to remove a character.
 
   That is the ONLY way I can think to abide by the Market rules as they
 stand.
 
   -Chris
 
   On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:34 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com
 wrote:
I see your point. I can be read either way. The android tech guys on
 here
won't comment because it is a legal matter but it would be really
 really
great if they could at least point us in the direction of WHERE to
 ask this
question???
 
There is not a legal discussion forum to ask these things.
*
Please.  To the Google engineers reading this. *
 
You guys really might want to bring up at your next weekly working
 meeting
(if you have those) that with all these developers creating
 everything from
X to Z for applications there WILL be many legal questions like this
 one
that will need to be answered.
So the developers will know what direction to go in on different
 issues.
 
We don't want to skirt around anything legal, we just need a place to
 go
for direction.
 
So you guys REALLY might want to set up a place where we can go to
 get
these legal questions answered.
 
Instead of waiting until they do all the work of developing their app
 and
getting it out there and THEN telling them oh you can't do this for
 legal
reason ..whatever.
 
Just trying to help. I guess I will just send search around to see if
 I can
find a general android support email and I will send the question
 there.
 
For anyone wondering what the question is go up to my last email on
 this
post about how to do in-app purchasing and the Market Agreement.
 
-Chris

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-24 Thread chris harper

I will post my response on both threads and I Kevin you are right we had two
threads going on this with no answer.

Thanks for the input TreKing

I agree I don't WANT to violate anything but when I can't get an answer I am
not sure what do to?

I have the basic skeleton structure for implementing the APK's for the
characters though the Market. I will keep that on the side and I will start
by publishing my characters via my own website and if they say I can't then
you are right as least I forced a hand and got an answer.

If I do get that answer then again, the question is only PART of it because
if they tell developers that they HAVE to go though  Market Place to provide
virtual content which people can buy via their app (NOT AN UPGRADE FOR THE
APP vey important difference) then well

...where is the infrastructure to support it?

They have either to provide the infrastructure though Market Place for
virtual content OR by provide the API's that developers can use in their
apps to use Market Place to complete transactions of virtual items purchased
within apps.

They can't just say don't do that and not provide an alternative way.
Well they could but it would make me rethink about developing for Android.

At least that's how I see it.

I'll go with my original idea and if they make me change to use market place
then I will make sure all the other developers know about it and at least we
have a future direction.

Although I estimate that I have about another two months of code and test
work before I distribute my app.

ToonTalks!

Watch for it.

:-)

Thank you
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hey all,

 read that thread and the rest of this one. I agree with TreKing. Just do it
 Chris. The language to me, and everyone else here is quite clear. All apps
 distributed thru the market MUST pay the market. Cool.. fair enough.. but
 there is nothing at all that describes in-game transactions that you code
 yourself. Nothing at all. There is no place short of this thread and another
 that tries to identify this issue and I am rather shocked as long as this
 thread has been around nobody from google has responded. As TreKing said,
 it's ambiguous, it's not nearly clear enough to say you can't do it. More
 so, I can't help but wonder, how would google ever know anyway... short of
 someone calling them up and saying that an app sold on the market is doing
 in-game payments thru paypal or something.. and if that person can do that,
 why can't we find some way to contact them to find this out.

 Frankly, as I've said a few times, google would be out of their minds to
 try to prevent this and if anything should really step up and provide a
 solid built-in android payment capability that they can profit from. I said
 it several times, I am ALL for giving google some of my in-game profits.
 They deserve it if they are willing to support it by supplying the API that
 handles the transactions. There has been plenty of articles about how long
 can google sustain their financial status on ads only... this is clearly one
 way they can make a crap load of money doing almost nothing (after all they
 already have google checkout working and supported), and from the various
 articles talking about how big micro transactions are going to be, and
 already are, if Android itself balloons and catches up or surpasses iPhone
 like various reports indicate, google could stand to make huge money off of
 something like this. As well, it will provide a more stable income source
 for developers utilizing it.

 I liken this to themes. I have yet to get my 2.1 update on my droid..
 supposedly sometime in 2012 or so we'll get it being 2+ months late
 already... but, the theme market.. or live home screen market is sure to
 explode as people create their own themes and sell them for .99 on the
 market. I still don't get why google doesn't take a cut of all the apps sold
 on the market while apple does.. I dont get it. But whatever.

 Anyway, I plan on supporting this in my apps.. until I am told otherwise.

 On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:26 PM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 Sorry Warren I didn't check over there. I will post the same response.

 -Chris


 On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:

 Here is where the discussion landed on the Market support forum.


 http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Android+Market/thread?tid=3c47284987b99696hl=en


 On Mar 24, 1:41 pm, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:
  I want to point out, because this has been part of the confusion the
  whole time, that he says, No you should not currently offer in app
  features that you charge for.
 
  Did you get that? The you should not charge for features.
 
  So suppose, as in Chris' case, you want to load extra character
  models. Well, one of the features of your app is the ability to load
  external models. They could be from the original developer, or I
  suppose someone else

Re: [android-developers] Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer

2010-03-23 Thread chris harper

I agree. If I were in your boots (which ANY of us can be because any A-HOLE
can compare any application we develop to almost any feature in someone
else app). Then I would seek legal advice.

My questions would be.

A. Isn't copyright taking something (not having something similar to)
something someone used and modifying and reusing it?
Which you didn't did do so then how how can they clam copyright
infringement?

B. If it is SIMILAR to their application then don't they need a patent on it
for you to cease and desist?
I mean that IS the purpose of patents right? That is why people pay
thousands of dollars for a patent??
If they don't have a patent on it then why does it matter if what you did is
similar to what they did? It's an open idea? Open idea meaning they don't
have a patent on it so anyone can do the same thing.

These would be the questions I would ask and yes I would talk to someone who
can represent you.

I am interested in the outcome. Please let us all know as we could all have
this same issue.

-Chris

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Richard rtaylor...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm the developer of a game, Flying Aces, that was released last
September.

It's a simple line drawing game, of which there are now several
variations on a similar theme.

There is a very popular iPhone game, Flight Control, that is one of
the most popular (over 2 million sales) developed by Firemint.

Firemint, according to their website, are porting their Flight Control
game to Android very soon.

I was contacted last week, with this email:
http://stickycoding.com/fa1.pdf

I promptly replied, asking whether it was some kind of joke, and asked
whether they are accusing me of using any of their graphics/audio/
resources (which I do not).

I got this response today:
http://stickycoding.com/fa2.pdf

They appear to be demanding (they haven't explicitly mentioned, but
I'm sure they will mention legal proceedings in their next reply) that
I stop selling my game, because it is vaguely similar to theirs. Now,
yes, you land planes by dragging a path, but that's the line-drawing
genre. And mentioning similar things such as helicopter landing site
with a big H.

Does anyone have any opinions on this matter? I'm assuming they have
contacted developers of similar apps (Flight Director is very similar
to my game, and is more popular, I would assume they were contacted
first) so I've emailed them to see.

I don't take to kindly to larger businesses trying to nudge indie devs
like myself out of the way to create a monopoly for there game before
it is even published.

I know this isn't a programming question but, I figured it applies to
many developers like myself, and there isn't much in the way of advice
other than on here.

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-23 Thread chris harper

Ok.

I am REALLY trying to play ball here.

I will then ask a technical question on this issue.

If we have to go though the Android Market for people to purchase virtual
items though our app's (like a movie, or music) from a site then how do we
do that within our application technically - using the Android Market?

We want a user to go to a site using our app's and buy something and
download it and us it within our app.
If we have to go though the Android Market to do that then...how???
If the items can be anything from a movie to music to additional characters
for a game? How do we technically do that using the Android market within
our application if that is the ONLY choice we have for our users to purchase
a virtual item?

That is a technical question.

:-)

Thank you
-Chris

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:24 AM, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.comwrote:

Disconnect wrote:
At first glance, section 3.3:
All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the
Market must
be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.
All fees. (And unless you have a weird contract with google
checkout, your
standard account is unlikely to do that 70/30 split, pay the carriers,
etc -
so its not the -market- payment processor.)

So all those fees I and other developers receive for in-app ads from
various providers are in violation of the Market Agreement?
Free, ad-supported apps are *products distributed via the Market*. And
all fees from ads do not flow through Google Checkout. You saying
all apps with ads need to be yanked?

Nice try, but you need to read the -whole- agreement:

Payment Processor(s): Any party authorized by Google to provide payment
processing services that enable Developers with optional Payment Accounts to
charge Device users for Products distributed via the Market.
Ad revenue isn't a fee. If nobody clicks your ads, the app doesn't
disappear. You aren't charging the users -a fee- for the app any more than
gmail is when they show ads there..

Mark Murphy wrote:
That is legal or business advice compared to technical QA, which
is
the purpose of this list and the role of the Googlers on it.

The very fact that he has to resort to asking here should demonstrate
the need for a business contact to handle non-technical issues related
to the development and distribution of apps via the Android Market. I
have a contact I work with at Google on the AdSense team that I can
ask about questions related to whether or not specific implementations
are acceptable or whether they violate terms of service.

Check the group charter:
*Discuss developing Android applications using the Android framework. Get
help with troubleshooting apps, advice on implementation, and strategies for
improving your app's speed and user experience.*

Sorry, nothing there about getting legal advice from google..

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Being legally harassed, by a large iPhone developer

2010-03-23 Thread chris harper

Richard/Patrick

It will probably come down to how much they want to really pay and pursue
this. It might just be a scare tactic because if they are jumping from the
iphone over to Android with their app then their natural first reaction
would be to scare off the competition.

One this is for sure if I was you. I would not back down. I would would be
quite angry and pursue it.

I have been working on my app for about 5 months now and it will be my first
app but in reading what you have gone though and what other developers have
gone though. I am not worried about bug fixes or my app itself when I put it
on the market. I am worried about the legal issues. I REALLY think that is
the bigger deal with Android and it being open for people to make what
they want and I am REALLY trying everything I can to avoid that with my
application.

I did find someone that does hold a patent on something that my app centers
around and I did contact them and they will eventuate my application
before I post it on the market. I hope that is enough. lol

So I really do which you luck Richard and PLEASE let us know what comes of
this. As some of us might be in the same boat

-Chris

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Richard rtaylor...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Thanks for all the advice everybody, I know nobody here is an expert.

 I am actually in the UK, and Firemint are Australian - so the US laws
 don't actually apply, but I can't imagine ours differ that much.

 And yes, ofcourse I had seen their game beforehand (only actually
 played for 5 minutes) and thought it was a good idea. The style is
 pretty much generic cartoonish - I'd say mine has a unique OTT
 cartoony style if anything.

 Chris: As far as I'm aware, from what I've been told (and what appears
 to have come of this Apple vs HTC lawsuit thing) that patents are what
 are being infringed, they need to be down on paper and approved rather
 than a 'we did that first'. Infact, I looked up the First-To-Patent vs
 First-To-Invent, and it seems that only the US goes for the 'First to
 invent' rule. So if they haven't actually got a patent, technically, I
 could run down to a lawyer, shell out a couple k, and then sue there
 a** back, right? :P

 I also have quite a few features that don't appear in there game. I
 have different styles of game, helicopter only, timed modes, weather,
 bonus parachutes dropping the from sky, obstacles to avoid and
 multipliers to collect. Not to mention a lot of unlockables /
 achievements. From what I remember (at the time I launched my game
 anyway) there's was simple starting slowly, and building up speed.

 I asked a few more questions about what exactly they were questioning
 in my last message to them, they are yet to get back.

 I'm not too worried about things at the minute, right now I think they
 are just trying to knock competition out of the way for when they
 release. They haven't actually worded that they will be threatening me
 legally, but it's implied in the way they demand things. It's just a
 little disconcerting for me, a student that just wants a bit of extra
 money for his cider addiction, should have to deal with corporate
 arrogance like this.


 Thanks Again
 Richard

 On Mar 23, 3:30 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  I agree. If I were in your boots (which ANY of us can be because any
 A-HOLE
  can compare any application we develop to almost any feature in
 someone
  else app). Then I would seek legal advice.
 
  My questions would be.
 
  A. Isn't copyright taking something (not having something similar to)
  something someone used and modifying and reusing it?
  Which you didn't did do so then how how can they clam copyright
  infringement?
 
  B. If it is SIMILAR to their application then don't they need a patent on
 it
  for you to cease and desist?
  I mean that IS the purpose of patents right? That is why people pay
  thousands of dollars for a patent??
  If they don't have a patent on it then why does it matter if what you did
 is
  similar to what they did? It's an open idea? Open idea meaning they don't
  have a patent on it so anyone can do the same thing.
 
  These would be the questions I would ask and yes I would talk to someone
 who
  can represent you.
 
  I am interested in the outcome. Please let us all know as we could all
 have
  this same issue.
 
  -Chris
 
 
 
  On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Richard rtaylor...@googlemail.com
 wrote:
   Hi everyone,
 
   I'm the developer of a game, Flying Aces, that was released last
   September.
 
   It's a simple line drawing game, of which there are now several
   variations on a similar theme.
 
   There is a very popular iPhone game, Flight Control, that is one of
   the most popular (over 2 million sales) developed by Firemint.
 
   Firemint, according to their website, are porting their Flight Control
   game to Android very soon.
 
   I was contacted last week, with this email:
  http://stickycoding.com/fa1.pdf
 
   I promptly replied

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-23 Thread chris harper

These guys seems to find a way to make it work.

Looks like they just add updates to their app though the market.

http://phandroid.com/2009/11/23/android-in-app-purchases-breached-by-ringz/

-Chris

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:

If you then
used your app to allow the user to buy stuff from your website, those
fees
would not be for products distributed via the Market, they would be for
products distributed via your website and would not be subject to being
processed by the Payment Processor.

Thoughts?

This is exactly what I'm thinking. And I think this would be allowable
under the agreement.

On Mar 23, 10:53 am, TreKing treking...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting discussion.

3.3 - All fees received by Developers for Products distributed via the
Market must be processed by the Market’s Payment Processor.

Thoughts?

-
TreKing - Chicago transit tracking app for Android-powered deviceshttp://
sites.google.com/site/rezmobileapps/treking

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Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-23 Thread chris harper

KevinYou just hit the nail on the head. Most of us are making applications
to make some extra money and if google is not going to allow developers to
do In-App Purchasing then we need a good alternate solution.

*PLEASE FOR THE ANDROID ENGINEERS ON HERE! *- If we can't do in-app
purchasing then ok. That's now it is. That what do we do for extra
functionality or virtual items for our app's that we want our users to buy
and download?
Is the only solution for us developers to add a new apk file on the Market
for any and all items that we want our app to download and use?
In my case my app is based on little characters. It comes with so many but I
want the users to buy and download new ones. I was going to do this via a
website but I am seeing now that I can't do that?
Now I am thinking that I need to bundle them up in an apk update and put
them on the market but as Kevin eluded to this will lead to many apk
versions on the market.

Is this want we need to do though?

I am wanting to fight one way or another but I need to know how to design my
application to provide this ability.

Thank you
-Chris



On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:

 I dont know that I agree Chris.. this issue is not resolved in my opinion.
 There needs to be a definitive response from google, maybe not here, but
 perhaps from a developer that has dealt with this issue.

 The problem with using the market for updates.. is that it's going to flood
 the market with items that end users have to scroll thru to find other apps,
 and they are updates. How the heck is that any good? What google should do
 is provide an update section to the market, so that developers can put
 game expansions, in-game items, etc in that section and NOT pollute the main
 apps/games section of the market. A user will stay on a web page for about 3
 seconds on average before they get bored and leave if it takes too long to
 load. How long will end users scroll through a list of mostly
 add-ons/in-game updates if they are intermixed with all the other apps. I
 know I don't spend that much time, at most I load more a couple of times.
 If the market doesn't get cleaned up, it's going to deter more and more
 users and degrade the overall android experience. I am baffled as to why the
 market doesn't get some sort of regular updates that make it better. As far
 as I can tell, it's a locked app on our devices, but it's an app. Is there
 nobody at google hearing all the negative feedback on how it works and
 looking to better it?

 Like I said above, this is a VERY good opportunity for Google to offer a
 built-in API (or an add-on SDK api so that 1.5+ android apps can take
 advantage of it, not just 2.2+ when it could come out) that provides a
 single sign-on device form.. the device owner only has to fill in their
 paypal/google checkout info once, and all apps can make use of it for
 in-game purchases. Google takes a cut, and makes money. Apple is freaking
 huge due to iTunes.. this would be the same thing for google. Provide us
 with the checkout/purchase API, and take a cut, 25%, 30%, whatever.

 It's evident a LOT of game developers, and even app developers, want to
 have a way to make some money. Microtransactions has been reported on as
 being one of the biggest things coming up for making money. Developers may
 not make much on their games alone, but if their game offers simple in-game
 purchases of some sort, the developer has another avenue of making some
 money. The end result is more developers work this in to their apps/games,
 providing more/longer lasting games, and Android benefits, and google
 benefits too by actually making some money. I see nothing wrong with this at
 all, I think it's fair if google put the leg work into the purchasing api
 that we can all use, they get a cut.

 On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:20 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ok... Ok.

 Guys.

 I didn't realize that Google does not allow In-App Purchasing.
 After searching around the internet I see that Apple just allowed their
 developers this option but we do not have the same ability.

 That kind of sucks but that's how it is. I currently have a little rain
 cloud above me and my PC as I write this.

 I am ready to move on now.

 I have to do some redesign on my app. I see am now going to go the same
 route that this application is doing:

 http://phandroid.com/2009/11/23/android-in-app-purchases-breached-by-ringz/

 Where they just make updates to there app available on the Market for
 additional features that they want their users to buy.

 So my simple question is does anyone have any examples (or threads) that
 show or talk about how to update your app with another updated apk WITHOUT
 reinstalling the whole app again?
 So just to add updated features?
 This way I can put my app out there and put my updates in additional apk
 files on the market which users can buy.

 Does anyone have any examples how the best practice is to do

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-23 Thread chris harper

Warren

My app is still in development but this is what I am doing. Within my app I
open a web browser to my site where I am using ZenCart.
http://www.zen-cart.com/

ZenCart handles all my store process and credit card processing. Once a user
selects an item and makes a payment (which are characters that my app uses
in my case) they can then download the new character (in a .zip file) which
my app takes and installs.

What WAS the way I was going to do it but from what I am reading I am not
sure that Google will allow that.

If I can't do that within my app then I am asking the Google Development
guys want my alternative solution is?

(queue tumble weed blowing by and cricket chirping in background)

;-)

-Chris

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Warren warrenba...@gmail.com wrote:

 An in-app purchase API would be ideal for many reasons. It would spare
 users from having to enter credit card information repeatedly. It
 could also take advantage of carrier billing where it is available. It
 could also provide more revenue for Google.

 The question was asked about how else to do credit card charges.

 Without an API option, I would likely send the user to a payment
 processor like Amazon or PayPal. That way the user deals directly with
 a proven system and I don't have the liability of handling credit card
 data. Then the processor sends my server a notification of successful
 payment. I checked and both of Amazon and PayPal have micro
 transaction rates that are far better than the standard $.30 + 3% for
 small values.

 This is just on the technical end, assuming you have met the Market
 Agreement details.


 On Mar 23, 12:29 pm, Kevin Duffey andjar...@gmail.com wrote:
  I dont know that I agree Chris.. this issue is not resolved in my
 opinion.
  There needs to be a definitive response from google, maybe not here, but
  perhaps from a developer that has dealt with this issue.
 
  The problem with using the market for updates.. is that it's going to
 flood
  the market with items that end users have to scroll thru to find other
 apps,
  and they are updates. How the heck is that any good? What google should
 do
  is provide an update section to the market, so that developers can put
  game expansions, in-game items, etc in that section and NOT pollute the
 main
  apps/games section of the market. A user will stay on a web page for
 about 3
  seconds on average before they get bored and leave if it takes too long
 to
  load. How long will end users scroll through a list of mostly
  add-ons/in-game updates if they are intermixed with all the other apps. I
  know I don't spend that much time, at most I load more a couple of
 times.
  If the market doesn't get cleaned up, it's going to deter more and more
  users and degrade the overall android experience. I am baffled as to why
 the
  market doesn't get some sort of regular updates that make it better. As
 far
  as I can tell, it's a locked app on our devices, but it's an app. Is
 there
  nobody at google hearing all the negative feedback on how it works and
  looking to better it?
 
  Like I said above, this is a VERY good opportunity for Google to offer a
  built-in API (or an add-on SDK api so that 1.5+ android apps can take
  advantage of it, not just 2.2+ when it could come out) that provides a
  single sign-on device form.. the device owner only has to fill in their
  paypal/google checkout info once, and all apps can make use of it for
  in-game purchases. Google takes a cut, and makes money. Apple is freaking
  huge due to iTunes.. this would be the same thing for google. Provide us
  with the checkout/purchase API, and take a cut, 25%, 30%, whatever.
 
  It's evident a LOT of game developers, and even app developers, want to
 have
  a way to make some money. Microtransactions has been reported on as being
  one of the biggest things coming up for making money. Developers may not
  make much on their games alone, but if their game offers simple in-game
  purchases of some sort, the developer has another avenue of making some
  money. The end result is more developers work this in to their
 apps/games,
  providing more/longer lasting games, and Android benefits, and google
  benefits too by actually making some money. I see nothing wrong with this
 at
  all, I think it's fair if google put the leg work into the purchasing api
  that we can all use, they get a cut.
 
  On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:20 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   Ok... Ok.
 
   Guys.
 
   I didn't realize that Google does not allow In-App Purchasing.
   After searching around the internet I see that Apple just allowed their
   developers this option but we do not have the same ability.
 
   That kind of sucks but that's how it is. I currently have a little rain
   cloud above me and my PC as I write this.
 
   I am ready to move on now.
 
   I have to do some redesign on my app. I see am now going to go the same
   route that this application is doing:
  http

Re: [android-developers] Re: In-App Purchasing and the Market Agreement

2010-03-23 Thread chris harper

, at most I load more a couple of
times.
If the market doesn't get cleaned up, it's going to deter more and more
users and degrade the overall android experience. I am baffled as to why
the
market doesn't get some sort of regular updates that make it better. As
far
as I can tell, it's a locked app on our devices, but it's an app. Is
there
nobody at google hearing all the negative feedback on how it works and
looking to better it?

Like I said above, this is a VERY good opportunity for Google to offer a
built-in API (or an add-on SDK api so that 1.5+ android apps can take
advantage of it, not just 2.2+ when it could come out) that provides a
single sign-on device form.. the device owner only has to fill in their
paypal/google checkout info once, and all apps can make use of it for
in-game purchases. Google takes a cut, and makes money. Apple is
freaking
huge due to iTunes.. this would be the same thing for google. Provide us
with the checkout/purchase API, and take a cut, 25%, 30%, whatever.

It's evident a LOT of game developers, and even app developers, want to
have
a way to make some money. Microtransactions has been reported on as
being
one of the biggest things coming up for making money. Developers may not
make much on their games alone, but if their game offers simple in-game
purchases of some sort, the developer has another avenue of making some
money. The end result is more developers work this in to their
apps/games,
providing more/longer lasting games, and Android benefits, and google
benefits too by actually making some money. I see nothing wrong with
this at
all, I think it's fair if google put the leg work into the purchasing
api
that we can all use, they get a cut.

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:20 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com
wrote:
Ok... Ok.

Guys.

I didn't realize that Google does not allow In-App Purchasing.
After searching around the internet I see that Apple just allowed
their
developers this option but we do not have the same ability.

That kind of sucks but that's how it is. I currently have a little
rain
cloud above me and my PC as I write this.

I am ready to move on now.

I have to do some redesign on my app. I see am now going to go the
same
route that this application is doing:
http://phandroid.com/2009/11/23/android-in-app-purchases-breached-by-.
..

Where they just make updates to there app available on the Market
for
additional features that they want their users to buy.

So my simple question is does anyone have any examples (or threads)
that
show or talk about how to update your app with another updated apk
WITHOUT
reinstalling the whole app again?
So just to add updated features?
This way I can put my app out there and put my updates in additional
apk
files on the market which users can buy.

Does anyone have any examples how the best practice is to do this?
It involves app keys and all that I presume.

Thank you

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com
wrote:

Disconnect wrote:
Ad revenue is a fee charged to the user fails the 'reasonable
person/common man' test.

And what about the other part of my question? What makes you
absolutely certain that in-app purchases are forbidden under the
Market Agreement?

I think as others in this discussion have demonstrated, the policy is
far from crystal clear.

..and it STILL doesn't say ask us about our contracts. (For that
matter,
there is a market support forum. Try there.)

Hah...good one. You'd have better luck putting a written note in a
bottle and throwing it in your swimming pool.

Look, this and other policies that directly impact what and how we
develop apps are not always clear (another example is tethering).
Third-party legal advice will not resolve these ambiguities. The
clarification must come from Google.

Some other Google services provide this type of business contact.
Android does not. It should.

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Re: [android-developers] Help regarding Logging

2010-03-16 Thread chris harper

Oh and it's free.

:-)

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:50 PM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

Guys

I had the same request. I wanted to monitor my app after it was out on the
market to fix bugs etc.

Someone pointed me to this:

http://www.flurry.com/

I am incorporating it into my app now. I have not launched my app yet but I
seems like what we need.

It's has capabilities to report exceptions and events in your app that you
want to track among other things.

-Chris

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:07 AM, MobDev developm...@mobilaria.com wrote:

Hi,
for my application I would like to be able to incorporate some good
Logging capabilities...
I would also like to use the networiking capabilitites for two
purposes :
- first I should be able to send a Logging Level from my server to my
client (Android app)... So the Logging Level should be adjustable
client-side
- secondly I must be able to read out the Log to send it to my server
through http...

I have seen there are two options in Android :
java.util.Log and java.util.Logging

The first one seems pretty straight forward but there are two issues
with that :
- can I programmatically read out the Log ? And if so how ?
- I have read that specific Logging Levels are automatically ignored
once an app has been deployed (like the verbose level)... Because of
the fact that I might want to have verbose-level logging from the
server I was wondering if it's able to actually de-ignore those
Levels ?

Also are there any tutorials reagrding these two packages ?
And what woul you, as an experienced developer, advise me to use of
those two methods ?

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Re: [android-developers] Help regarding Logging

2010-03-16 Thread chris harper

Guys

I had the same request. I wanted to monitor my app after it was out on the
market to fix bugs etc.

Someone pointed me to this:

http://www.flurry.com/

I am incorporating it into my app now. I have not launched my app yet but I
seems like what we need.

It's has capabilities to report exceptions and events in your app that you
want to track among other things.

-Chris

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:07 AM, MobDev developm...@mobilaria.com wrote:

I have seen there are two options in Android :
java.util.Log and java.util.Logging

Also are there any tutorials reagrding these two packages ?
And what woul you, as an experienced developer, advise me to use of
those two methods ?

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Re: [android-developers] 3D Physics Engine For Android Demo

2010-03-16 Thread chris harper

I am impressed you guys are really helpful. I have an app that I am going to
launching in about another two months and I have the same issue. How do you
test it on different platforms?
Someone pointed me to this:
https://www.deviceanywhere.com/Independent%20Developer/Independent%20Developer_virtual_developer_lab.html

but you have to pay. I might still do it, but it is great to see people
helping out. So I might ask the same.

BTW your app works on the HTC Hero

-Chris

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Kevin S. dada...@gmail.com wrote:

I've completed my first Android application. It as 3D demo with a
physics engine. It uses the phone's accelerometer so that you can
shake the world by moving the phone around. There are options to
adjust things like gravity, friction, and elasticity.

The physics engine is a 100% Java port of the open source JigLib
physics engine.

However, I only have a Motorola Droid, and I don't know if it will
work on any other phone. The project is set to use Android 1.6.

Before I put it in the market, I was hoping to get some feedback
from the developer community here.

If anybody is interested in 3D stuff or physics simulation, you can
give the app a try. The link is on the follow page. There is a
screen shot there so you can get an idea of what the app is.

http://www.pieintheskysoftware.com/menuitem-resources-pie-3d-physics-1-0.html

-Kevin

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[android-developers] Please help. Canvas Coordinate information

2010-03-15 Thread chris harper

Any help would be great on this thank you.

If you have two objects on the canvas (obj A) (obj B) and they both
move around dynamically (i.e the X,Y values are constantly changing).

I need to check if they intersect.

I know you can do something like ObjA.X == ObjB.X  and ObjA.Y ==
ObjB.Y but the objects are complex (i.e made up of multiple images and
x,y positions for each).
So constantly checking track of every single x,y position for Obj A
and checking it against every x,y image position of Obj B is a lot of
overhead for each redraw.

My question then is there a better way to do this? For example can you
some how get information from the canvas of position x,y and tell if
there is another image set to that position already? Then each object
can just check it's own x,y position to see if intersects with
another object (whatever it might be)? I mean it makes sense that if
you draw Obj A at X,Y the canvas knows about it, so Obj B should be
able to get that information?

Is this possible somehow? I been checking the libs and I have not
found anything yet.

Or if anyone else has any ideas of checking dynamically changing
object positions and intersections between them I am welcome to any
ideas?

Or am I stuck with keeping track and comparing every x,y for each
object on every iteration?

Thank you for any help
-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Can I get sued for using Android Caller ID?? -Please answer

2010-03-08 Thread chris harper

Thank monmonja

I found and contacted a company that holds a patent on a feature that my app
centers around.

They are going to work with me and review my app before I launch it to
discuses license agreements. I let them know I am an individual who does
have tons of money to spend on licenses so I will be interested to see what
they propose.

-Chris

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:16 AM, monmonja almondmend...@gmail.com wrote:

 First of all thanks for using my example :) On the patent thing, if
 you have a good idea similar to something that is patented, i suggest
 you to put your app on other country besides US or the list of
 countries that have the patent (you can google search them). One
 reason is that the patent system in US is kind of a mess right now
 (sorry guys its just is). Most patents in US are not global patents so
 in a sea of 140+ countries, there is a good chance your app would be
 big somewhere else. On the localization part, there are a lot of
 willing individual on that certain country that could speak english
 and is willing to translate the app for you. Btw im not a US hater but
 i hate the patent system there, it kills further innovations.

 On Mar 3, 12:51 am, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  I agree it all depends on if your app makes money. If they see something
  that makes money they will come after you if you violate a Patent. In my
  case I did my homework and found out now before my app goes out that
 someone
  holds a patent on any case when someone takes any graphic of any image
 that
  represents a head and places it on graphic of anything that represents a
  body. Like JibJab does. If you look at the legal part of their JibJab's
 web
  site they have to pay pixfusion a license fee (at the very bottom).
 
  http://sendables.jibjab.com/about/legal
 
  Which is what my app is going to do (take a head and place it on a body).
 
  I wrote pixfusion two emails asking about licenses fee's and what I was
  developing but I never heard back. So I'll keep the emails that I wrote
 and
  if (by chance) my app does get a little popular and I do hear from them
 then
  I will have proof that I tried contacting them and I was proactive.
 
  For any developers out there reading this do a little googling on any
  major features of your app and just aware that there are MANY patents out
  there. Where if your app takes off you could get an email from some BS
  company saying you have to pay them licenses fees and/or a cease and
 desist
  order like K05tik got.
 
  There is nothing worse for a developer then spending hours of time
  developing and coding something just to find out that they have to stop
  publishing it.
 
  Thanks
  -Chris
 
 
 
  On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:15 AM, ko5tik kpriblo...@yahoo.com wrote:
   In today society everybody  can sue you for almost anything at any
   time
   ( we live in kind of free countries, in unfree countrys you will be
   just thrown to jail  )
   in case of tetris applet they claimed copyright on 4-block tiles ;)
   ( which were used in a books back in 70ies )
 
   Software patents do suck,  as well as actual copyright laws  ( for
   example in germany,
   EUR 0.06 per blank CD goes straight to GEMA , as well as EUR 30 on
   every new
   PC sold, and they still claim that you download music illegally)  -
   so please support your
   local pirate party.
 
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Re: [android-developers] Re: Can I get sued for using Android Caller ID?? -Please answer

2010-03-08 Thread chris harper

Thank you for the advice Yahel.

I gut feeling is they will probably want a % of proceeds from my app. That
is what I am expecting.

I figured I didn't have any other choice. I didn't want to put my app out
there and then get hit with a high dollar settlement fee for patent
infringement.

The only other thought I had was along the lines of what monmonja said and
register my app in like Russia or something but I don't know how patent laws
work with international or if that would even work because because I live in
Colorado. lol

So I really have only one choice which is to work with them and hope they
don't ask to much for license fees.

Patent rights do make it hard to develop new ideas.

:-(

-Chris


On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Yahel kaye...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hey Chris,

 Smart move, but depending on the time spent and the work involved you
 should ask them for the minimum fee they'll ask you.

 Would be too bad to create an app around there patent, give them nice
 implementation ideas, and have them just tell you they won't let you
 because they are doing the same, or asks for $400 000

 Yahel

 On 8 mar, 18:59, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thank monmonja
 
  I found and contacted a company that holds a patent on a feature that my
 app
  centers around.
 
  They are going to work with me and review my app before I launch it to
  discuses license agreements. I let them know I am an individual who does
  have tons of money to spend on licenses so I will be interested to see
 what
  they propose.
 
  -Chris
 
 
 
  On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:16 AM, monmonja almondmend...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   First of all thanks for using my example :) On the patent thing, if
   you have a good idea similar to something that is patented, i suggest
   you to put your app on other country besides US or the list of
   countries that have the patent (you can google search them). One
   reason is that the patent system in US is kind of a mess right now
   (sorry guys its just is). Most patents in US are not global patents so
   in a sea of 140+ countries, there is a good chance your app would be
   big somewhere else. On the localization part, there are a lot of
   willing individual on that certain country that could speak english
   and is willing to translate the app for you. Btw im not a US hater but
   i hate the patent system there, it kills further innovations.
 
   On Mar 3, 12:51 am, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree it all depends on if your app makes money. If they see
 something
that makes money they will come after you if you violate a Patent. In
 my
case I did my homework and found out now before my app goes out that
   someone
holds a patent on any case when someone takes any graphic of any
 image
   that
represents a head and places it on graphic of anything that
 represents a
body. Like JibJab does. If you look at the legal part of their
 JibJab's
   web
site they have to pay pixfusion a license fee (at the very bottom).
 
   http://sendables.jibjab.com/about/legal
 
Which is what my app is going to do (take a head and place it on a
 body).
 
I wrote pixfusion two emails asking about licenses fee's and what I
 was
developing but I never heard back. So I'll keep the emails that I
 wrote
   and
if (by chance) my app does get a little popular and I do hear from
 them
   then
I will have proof that I tried contacting them and I was proactive.
 
For any developers out there reading this do a little googling on
 any
major features of your app and just aware that there are MANY patents
 out
there. Where if your app takes off you could get an email from some
 BS
company saying you have to pay them licenses fees and/or a cease and
   desist
order like K05tik got.
 
There is nothing worse for a developer then spending hours of time
developing and coding something just to find out that they have to
 stop
publishing it.
 
Thanks
-Chris
 
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:15 AM, ko5tik kpriblo...@yahoo.com wrote:
 In today society everybody  can sue you for almost anything at any
 time
 ( we live in kind of free countries, in unfree countrys you will be
 just thrown to jail  )
 in case of tetris applet they claimed copyright on 4-block tiles ;)
 ( which were used in a books back in 70ies )
 
 Software patents do suck,  as well as actual copyright laws  ( for
 example in germany,
 EUR 0.06 per blank CD goes straight to GEMA , as well as EUR 30 on
 every new
 PC sold, and they still claim that you download music illegally)  -
 so please support your
 local pirate party.
 
 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups Android Developers group.
 To post to this group, send email to
   android-developers@googlegroups.com
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Re: [android-developers] Re: Can I get sued for using Android Caller ID?? -Please answer

2010-03-08 Thread chris harper

Agreed Don.

I made it clear the I am  a single individual who just has an idea for an
app that I would like to develop and I don't have lots of money.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:52 PM, DonFrench dcfre...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would recommend against telling them that you have tons of money


 On Mar 8, 9:59 am, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thank monmonja
 
  I found and contacted a company that holds a patent on a feature that my
 app
  centers around.
 
  They are going to work with me and review my app before I launch it to
  discuses license agreements. I let them know I am an individual who does
  have tons of money to spend on licenses so I will be interested to see
 what
  they propose.
 
  -Chris
 
  On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:16 AM, monmonja almondmend...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   First of all thanks for using my example :) On the patent thing, if
   you have a good idea similar to something that is patented, i suggest
   you to put your app on other country besides US or the list of
   countries that have the patent (you can google search them). One
   reason is that the patent system in US is kind of a mess right now
   (sorry guys its just is). Most patents in US are not global patents so
   in a sea of 140+ countries, there is a good chance your app would be
   big somewhere else. On the localization part, there are a lot of
   willing individual on that certain country that could speak english
   and is willing to translate the app for you. Btw im not a US hater but
   i hate the patent system there, it kills further innovations.
 
   On Mar 3, 12:51 am, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree it all depends on if your app makes money. If they see
 something
that makes money they will come after you if you violate a Patent. In
 my
case I did my homework and found out now before my app goes out that
   someone
holds a patent on any case when someone takes any graphic of any
 image
   that
represents a head and places it on graphic of anything that
 represents a
body. Like JibJab does. If you look at the legal part of their
 JibJab's
   web
site they have to pay pixfusion a license fee (at the very bottom).
 
   http://sendables.jibjab.com/about/legal
 
Which is what my app is going to do (take a head and place it on a
 body).
 
I wrote pixfusion two emails asking about licenses fee's and what I
 was
developing but I never heard back. So I'll keep the emails that I
 wrote
   and
if (by chance) my app does get a little popular and I do hear from
 them
   then
I will have proof that I tried contacting them and I was proactive.
 
For any developers out there reading this do a little googling on
 any
major features of your app and just aware that there are MANY patents
 out
there. Where if your app takes off you could get an email from some
 BS
company saying you have to pay them licenses fees and/or a cease and
   desist
order like K05tik got.
 
There is nothing worse for a developer then spending hours of time
developing and coding something just to find out that they have to
 stop
publishing it.
 
Thanks
-Chris
 
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:15 AM, ko5tik kpriblo...@yahoo.com wrote:
 In today society everybody  can sue you for almost anything at any
 time
 ( we live in kind of free countries, in unfree countrys you will be
 just thrown to jail  )
 in case of tetris applet they claimed copyright on 4-block tiles ;)
 ( which were used in a books back in 70ies )
 
 Software patents do suck,  as well as actual copyright laws  ( for
 example in germany,
 EUR 0.06 per blank CD goes straight to GEMA , as well as EUR 30 on
 every new
 PC sold, and they still claim that you download music illegally)  -
 so please support your
 local pirate party.
 
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Re: [android-developers] Help get me started

2010-03-07 Thread chris harper

I agree with Mark you need to learn the language first instead of jumping
into the deep end of the pool.

-Chris

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Burkey burk...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello, I am completely new to the JAVA language. I have Eclipse
 installed with Android tools. I have a heavy amount of experience in
 JASS, so I understand the whole scheme of game making with coding. Any
 suggestions on reading materials that will get me started? I have no
 clue where to start

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Re: [android-developers] How to make sure an Android App works on most smartphones?

2010-03-07 Thread chris harper

Great question.

I have had the same concern as I am going to launch my first app in about 3
months which I have worked very hard on. To test before release I don't
know. I have the same questions. After release someone did point me to this
which I am incorporating into my app:
http://www.flurry.com/

So at least you know after you release how your app is doing on the
different phones.

If any Google guys read this please note that Maxood isn't the only one that
would like to know this.

How does a developer know his app will work on many different devices and/or
not have some feature in their app that will break on a majority of them?

It would suck if you had a really cool app but it works on only 30% of the
phones.

:-(

I am testing on two phones to TRY and get around this. the HTC Hero (running
1.5) and the Google development phone (running eclair).

But I would still like to test as much as possible on different phone
hardware.

Thank you
-Chris

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Maxood maqs...@salsoft.net wrote:

How can i make sure that my android app works on majority of the
devices in the market. What testing tools do i have to use? Obviously
if there are 12 or more smartphones in the market then i cannot buy
each of them to test my app.So what should i do? Wonder if Dvice
Anywhere(http://www.deviceanywhere.com/) can help us in this regard?

Does firmware or OS version also matters (1.5,1.6, 2.0, etc.)?

Please comment and explain.

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Re: [android-developers] How to make sure an Android App works on most smartphones?

2010-03-07 Thread chris harper

Actually I just checked out your link Maxood.

It seems like a good solution and they have a special service for Android
developers.

https://www.deviceanywhere.com/Independent%20Developer/Independent%20Developer_virtual_developer_lab.html

I might do the free trial.

Thank you

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 10:32 AM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

Great question.

So at least you know after you release how your app is doing on the
different phones.

If any Google guys read this please note that Maxood isn't the only one
that would like to know this.

How does a developer know his app will work on many different devices
and/or not have some feature in their app that will break on a majority of
them?

It would suck if you had a really cool app but it works on only 30% of the
phones.

:-(

I am testing on two phones to TRY and get around this. the HTC Hero
(running 1.5) and the Google development phone (running eclair).

But I would still like to test as much as possible on different phone
hardware.

Thank you
-Chris

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Maxood maqs...@salsoft.net wrote:

Does firmware or OS version also matters (1.5,1.6, 2.0, etc.)?

Please comment and explain.

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Can I get sued for using Android Caller ID?? -Please answer

2010-03-02 Thread chris harper

I agree it all depends on if your app makes money. If they see something
that makes money they will come after you if you violate a Patent. In my
case I did my homework and found out now before my app goes out that someone
holds a patent on any case when someone takes any graphic of any image that
represents a head and places it on graphic of anything that represents a
body. Like JibJab does. If you look at the legal part of their JibJab's web
site they have to pay pixfusion a license fee (at the very bottom).

http://sendables.jibjab.com/about/legal

Which is what my app is going to do (take a head and place it on a body).

I wrote pixfusion two emails asking about licenses fee's and what I was
developing but I never heard back. So I'll keep the emails that I wrote and
if (by chance) my app does get a little popular and I do hear from them then
I will have proof that I tried contacting them and I was proactive.

For any developers out there reading this do a little googling on any
major features of your app and just aware that there are MANY patents out
there. Where if your app takes off you could get an email from some BS
company saying you have to pay them licenses fees and/or a cease and desist
order like K05tik got.

There is nothing worse for a developer then spending hours of time
developing and coding something just to find out that they have to stop
publishing it.

Thanks
-Chris

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:15 AM, ko5tik kpriblo...@yahoo.com wrote:

 In today society everybody  can sue you for almost anything at any
 time
 ( we live in kind of free countries, in unfree countrys you will be
 just thrown to jail  )
 in case of tetris applet they claimed copyright on 4-block tiles ;)
 ( which were used in a books back in 70ies )

 Software patents do suck,  as well as actual copyright laws  ( for
 example in germany,
 EUR 0.06 per blank CD goes straight to GEMA , as well as EUR 30 on
 every new
 PC sold, and they still claim that you download music illegally)  -
 so please support your
 local pirate party.

 --
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Re: [android-developers] How to send and receive http request

2010-03-02 Thread chris harper

I had to do the same thing.

Check out this link for the open source PhotoStream and look in the Flickr
class.

I used much of this class as an example and it helped a lot.

http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/trunk/Photostream/src/com/google/android/photostream/Flickr.java

-Chris

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Matt Gill mattgi...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,

I am wanting to send a http request to Google.com from my mobile
application but am unsure how to get about asembling the request.
Anothing problem that i might in counter is how to handle the
information that is returned. For example, i want to send a request
for local resturnats to Google and have the results returned and
then displayed to the user in a ListView. Am i going about this the
right way? Any suggestions on how i might go about this? Is there an
API that i could use (GoogleMaps or AJAX Search)?

Thanks for the Help.

Matt G.

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Re: [android-developers] Tips to write an app that fetches data from website and displays it on screen

2010-03-02 Thread chris harper

Take a look at this link.

This class uploads photos from a website to an app. That's where I would
start.

Most of the HTTP methods are at the bottom.

http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse/trunk/Photostream/src/com/google/android/photostream/Flickr.java

-Chris

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:50 PM, raqz abdulraqee...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I am new to android programming and have a strong keen interest to
learn it. I want to write a program that fetches the data from a
website, segregates it and displays it on the screen of the phone. The
data could be grocery list from a supermarket or sale items in a
mall.
Could you please suggest as to how I can go ahead and start this.

Thanks,
Raqeeb

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Can I get sued for using Android Caller ID?? -Please answer

2010-03-01 Thread chris harper

Thank you for responding ko5tik.

I think you are right. The people who open these patents won't care unless
your app is doing well because they just want the money.

I disagree somewhat with Dmitri.
I think developers need to be aware that many features that they might put
in their application can have imposing law suits that might come against
them for some Patent infringement. That is something they need to be aware
of. Maybe a separate thread or something because I have done some research
on the web and there are MANY out there and a lot of them are really stupid.
Like holding a patent on caller lookup?! That can effect SO many
applications.
So as a developer I am going to try (emphasis on try) and develop my
application so it's robust enough that I can add/remove features if I need
to.

1th hit and you had to cease and desist?

That sucks. Truly. Sorry to hear that.

-Chris

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:35 AM, ko5tik kpriblo...@yahoo.com wrote:

It depends heavily on laws of your place of residence
and importance of your application. Most probably nobody will
ever notice. However, I managed to get attention of lawyers
representing
nice delaware company holding right of tetris because of my applet
game
(used to be 1th hit in google ) - but no lawsuit, just cease and
desist letter.

On Feb 27, 10:11 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi

I read this article and it concerns me. It's about patent
infringements for the caller ID within android applications.

http://techdirt.com/articles/20100224/0244468285.shtml

I am writing an application for android which uses the
PhoneStateListener and following the example outlined in this article:
http://almondmendoza.com/2009/01/30/getting-the-contact-info-when-on-...

Have you guys at Google experienced developers being sued for using
this feature (besides the one in the article of course).

Should I be concerned here if I used this feature in my application?

Thank you
-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] Piracy sucks, or does it?

2010-02-27 Thread chris harper

I have been designing and testing my app for the past 4 months and I figured
I have about another two months before I am ready to publish it.
What you experienced concerns me.
I didn't know about Flurry but after goggling it I know I want it within my
app now and I thank you for mentioning it.

I hope the Google folks work this out and I will be reading your thread to
see what comes of this.

Good luck.

-Chris

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:55 PM, dadical keyes...@gmail.com wrote:

I've been selling my app on the Android market for a bit over a month
now. I've had pretty decent success so far, making it into the top
ten in my category.

Recently, I noticed a major discrepancy between Flurry's reported new
users and the market's stats (what little of them Google does
provide). Flurry said that I had about 4,500 new users, while market
reported just over 3,000. Holy crap. Are 1/3 of my users really
stealing the app? That's the only conclusion that I can come to,
since my experience with Flurry has been that it is pretty accurate.
Also, I have seen many pirate sites hosting my app. I used to take the
time to report them, but it seems to be a waste of resources.

So here's the question. Should I be celebrating the fact that my app
has attained the level of piracy worthy, and just try to ignore the
fact that there are so many punk loser pricks out there that won't
spare the pennies to buy it, or perhaps can't borrow mommy's credit
card? Is piracy a badge of honor that I should just learn to deal
with since Google won't give me the market tools to fix it?

I like the concept that AndAppStore is trying to provide, offering an
API that can be embedded into one's app to check for purchase at
application startup. It's a bit clunky, and I'm not going to restrict
myself to AndAppStore's limited reach, but it sure would be nice if
Google (or someone else) could scrape together a competitive market
offering.

I'm really, really, really beginning to wish that someone would go out
and get the $2 MM that it would take to create a competitive market
offering. A market that was polished, offered real sales support, and
real developer support.

If you ask me, the rampant piracy of Android apps is just another
indication that Android Market is in desperate need of some
competition...

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[android-developers] Can I get sued for using Android Caller ID?? -Please answer

2010-02-27 Thread chris harper

Hi

I read this article and it concerns me. It's about patent
infringements for the caller ID within android applications.

http://techdirt.com/articles/20100224/0244468285.shtml

I am writing an application for android which uses the
PhoneStateListener and following the example outlined in this article:
http://almondmendoza.com/2009/01/30/getting-the-contact-info-when-on-a-number/

Have you guys at Google experienced developers being sued for using
this feature (besides the one in the article of course).

Should I be concerned here if I used this feature in my application?

Thank you
-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

2010-02-10 Thread chris harper

If I wanted religion I would go to church.

If I want to develop with the android community then I sign up with

android-developers.

Figure it out and please don't post religious email here.

2010/2/10 Ricardo A. Sá azeved...@gmail.com

This is the religion..
http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/

Relax fanatics.. Its just a jokey.. =)

hugs

2010/2/10 Miguel Morales therevolti...@gmail.com

I'm not a jew, I'm Christian.
Mohammad was a prophet for the catholic church. Not of God, his teachings
directly contradict God's word in the old testament. Ishmael was a bastard
child, not part of Isaac's covenant. There is a covenant with Ishmael, but
as it says in the old testament, it is not the chosen one.

There is NO prophesy of a 'prophet' after the coming of Christ. When
Jesus comes back and rules in Jerusalem, you will have a chance to repent.
Only because God has mercy on you.

Anyone who claims that Jesus was just a prophet is a liar and a
hypocrite. They claim he was a prophet but don't believe what he said.

The kuran is derived from the secret knowledge of the catholic church at
the time.

These are just facts coming from a book (the old testament) that muslims
claim to believe in.

YOU guys are agents of the anti-christ. I spread the good news of
Christ. You reject him.

Just look at the world, if God loved Muslims so much why are bombs falling
on them and tearing their children apart? Why does Israel still exist?

You are no better than jew pulling out the anti-semite card because of
their inability to defend their words or actions.

On Feb 10, 2010 5:15 AM, Abdul Mateen abmat...@gmail.com wrote:

Mohammad(SAW) is the last prophet of God. This is the truth in your Bible
also there are prophecies in Bible. I think you are a Jew or Illuminati
worshiping Anti-Christ ( Dajjal ).

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:43 AM, Miguel Morales therevolti...@gmail.com
wrote:

Read the old testament, god's covenant is with isaac not ishmael.
That's why israel still exist...

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[android-developers] Recognizer Intent Question. Any help would be great. Thank you

2010-02-01 Thread chris harper

Hi

I am hoping that one of the google guys or someone else can help me
with one of the new features coming out with Eclair. Using the

 VOICE_UPLINK_INPUT = 1
 and
 VOICE_DOWNLINK_INPUT = 2
Attributes.

I know to recognize speech from the user holding the phone you can use
Recognizer Intent. Cool.

Has anyone tried (or is it possible) to use Recognizer Intent to
detect when someone on the phone is talking?

I imagine this would have to be tied somehow to:

 VOICE_UPLINK_INPUT = 1
 or
 VOICE_DOWNLINK_INPUT = 2

If not with RecognizerIntent is there any creative ideas on how it
might be done in real time like RecognizerIntent works?

Not by recording it to to a file with media recorder but in real
time.

I don't need anything fancy here. I do not need to recognize words and
all that.
All I need to do is to detect when the person on the phone is talking
vs not talking.

I am thinking there has to be a way. It's just a different audio
source. Right?

Thank you for any help
-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Record raw Audio, process audio and save as ogg or another compressed format

2010-01-27 Thread chris harper

I need to do something similar for my application and I looked into it about
a month ago but has since concentrated on another part of my app. I still
need to do it. So it's still something that I have to tackle.
I was thinking of doing was reading from the mic into a byte array and then
working on the data in that way. Something like:

int audioSource = MediaRecorder.AudioSource.
VOICE_DOWNLINK;
int sampleRateInHz = 8000;
int channelConfig = AudioFormat.CHANNEL_CONFIGURATION_MONO;
int audioFormat = AudioFormat.ENCODING_PCM_16BIT;
bufferSize = AudioRecord.getMinBufferSize(sampleRateInHz,
channelConfig, audioFormat);
AudioRecord recordInstance = new AudioRecord(audioSource,
sampleRateInHz, channelConfig, audioFormat, bufferSize);
recordInstance.startRecording();

And then read the buffer in real time to analyze and play with the data.
Something like:

byte buf[] = new byte[bufferSize];
int bytesRead = 0;

bytesRead = recordInstance.read(buf, 0, bufferSize)

If you find something else that is a better way. I would love to know.

-Chris

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Donal Rafferty draf...@gmail.com wrote:

Have you looked at the MediaRecorder class? As far as I know it allows some
encoding and compression

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 5:04 PM, maecky markus.feuerst...@gmail.comwrote:

Push.
Does no one have any suggestions?

regards Maecky

On 17 Jan., 21:24, maecky markus.feuerst...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I have searched the whole group but wasn't able to find a answer for
my problem.

I want to record audio from the microphone, apply some audio signal
processing and than save the processed audio data in a compressed
format.

I figured out, how to record audio uncompressed but now I wonder if I
can use some api functions to store this data in a supported
compressed format.

Has anyone some suggestions?

Thanks for your help
regards Maecky

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[android-developers] Another (hopefully simple but interesting) Speech Recognition question

2010-01-27 Thread chris harper

Hi

I know to recognize speech from the user holding the phone you can use
Recognizer Intent. Cool.

Has anyone tried (or is it possible) to use Recognizer Intent to
detect when someone on the phone is talking?

I imagine this would have to be tied somehow to:

 VOICE_UPLINK_INPUT = 1
 or
 VOICE_DOWNLINK_INPUT = 2

If not with RecognizerIntent is there any creative ideas on how it
might be done in real time like RecognizerIntent works?

Not by recording it to to a file with media recorder but in real
time.

I don't need anything fancy here. I do not need to recognize words and
all that.
All I need to do is to detect when the person on the phone is talking
vs not talking.

I am thinking there has to be a way. It's just a different audio
source. Right?

Thank you for any help
-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] prominent android developers

2010-01-14 Thread chris harper

Hi
I have been looking in Google groups.

Is there a way in Google groups to post under certain topics within an email
group like android-developers? What we really need on here is some way so
when people submit a new post they can post under a topic.
Such as Graphics, Blue tooth, Sound, Version control etc...

Instead of a big list of everything.

That way people can search under a topic if they need help because my guess
is that many people probably have similar questions on issues and they might
find something under a certain topic that has already been asked that they
also need help on (or similar to).

I currently search within my email for key words when I am looking for
similar posts to what I am working on but it's by keyword and when people
post they might use different words.

So a post by topic might be a good idea.

Just trying to help out.

-Chris

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Atif Gulzar atif.gul...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi All,

I have compiled a small list of prominent android developers how
frequently post on Google Android groups (
android-developers.googlegroups.com android-beginners.googlegroups.com).
There is a flood of emails (200 per day) on Google Android groups and it is
not possible to follow all. But I filter the below emails to extract (20
per day) valuable information. Would you please add into this list.

hack...@android.com

romain...@google.com

romain...@android.com

mmur...@commonsware.com

marc...@android.com

roman.baumgaert...@t-mobile.com

yusuf.s...@t-mobile.com

x...@android.com

r...@android.com

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I Unicode, ɹɐzlnƃ ɟıʇɐ

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Voice recognition and voice decoding

2010-01-13 Thread chris harper

Tina

I also need to implement voice recognition in my application and I did a
little research on it but have since moved to another part of my app to work
on. Although it's a critical part of my app and it’s been looming in the
back of my head like I black cloud because I don’t know how hard it will be.
That said I will share what I did find. You might have found the same thing.

What I really need to do is localize the incoming callers voice and outgoing
callers voice and key off when they actually talk (animations).

I know I will have to use
VOICE_DOWNLINK and VOICE_UPLINK in some manner but how to actually key when
someone talks is still eluding me.

RecognizerIntent seems the most promising.

http://www.4feets.com/android1.5_ref/docs/reference/android/speech/RecognizerIntent.html

although when I tested with it and spoke real time into my phone it didn’t
seem to respond to my voice but I didn’t play with it to much.

If that doesn't pan out then the only other way I found is to read the voice
data in real time by doing something like:

int audioSource = MediaRecorder.AudioSource.VOICE_DOWNLINK;
int sampleRateInHz = 8000;
int channelConfig = AudioFormat.CHANNEL_CONFIGURATION_MONO;
int audioFormat = AudioFormat.ENCODING_PCM_16BIT;
bufferSize = AudioRecord.getMinBufferSize(sampleRateInHz,
channelConfig, audioFormat);
AudioRecord recordInstance = new AudioRecord(audioSource,
sampleRateInHz, channelConfig, audioFormat, bufferSize);
recordInstance.startRecording();

And then read the buffer in real time to analyze and play with the data.
Something like:

byte buf[] = new byte[bufferSize];
int bytesRead = 0;

bytesRead = recordInstance.read(buf, 0, bufferSize)

This might be the route you have to go because it sounds like you want to
actually change the voice data in real time.
There might be a better way to go though.

I REALLY don't want to go this route because I have to figure out sound
amplitude and all that from the byte stream which I don't have much
experience in.

Other Apps like this one has to be using voice recognition, so I know it can
be done.

http://www.droidapps.org/mouthoff-fun-animated-mouths/

I would love to share what each of us finds.

Two heads are better than one and all that.

If anyone else reads this and has any ideas, please feel free.

Your ideas/comments are always welcome.

-Chris

If that is not the way to do then
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Joe McCann joseph.is...@gmail.com wrote:

Speech-to-text is processed in the cloud and the resulting data is
returned.

On Jan 11, 5:36 am, tina lincon tina.theresalin...@wipro.com wrote:
How is it possible to implement voice recognition on android phones?
Also to decode the voice and convert the male voice to female voice
and vice versa?The voice data input from the user will be sent to the
Google site
for recognition through Internet, or will be processed and recognized
locally on my android phone?
if anyone has any idea regarding it,plzz help..
Thanks in advance,

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[android-developers] Probably a simple Canvas Drawing question. Please answer

2010-01-10 Thread chris harper

Hi

When doing a lot of updates on a canvas (like an animation) if you
only want to update a small part of the canvas when onDraw is called
instead of redrawing the entire canvas is there a way to only redraw
one part and keep the rest of the canvas the exact same to save on
Drawing Time?

For example a scene with a background and a character in it and you
want him to wave so you only want to update the arm moving and keep
the rest of the scene the same without having to redraw it all (to
save on drawing time).

Is there a way to do this? Or is it an all or nothing deal when
redrawing a canvas?

If there is an obvious way or if I misinterpreted how the onDraw works
then I apologize.

Thank you

-Chris
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Re: [android-developers] Probably a simple Canvas Drawing question. Please answer

2010-01-10 Thread chris harper

Thank you very much Romain for pointing me in the right direction.

I'll start reading up on invalidate and use that for my updates.

-Chris

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Romain Guy romain...@android.com wrote:

 When you call invalidate() to redraw your View, specify what area to
 redraw:

 invalidate(Rect t)
 or
 invalidate(int left, int top, int right, int bottom)

 On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 8:44 PM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi
 
  When doing a lot of updates on a canvas (like an animation) if you
  only want to update a small part of the canvas when onDraw is called
  instead of redrawing the entire canvas is there a way to only redraw
  one part and keep the rest of the canvas the exact same to save on
  Drawing Time?
 
  For example a scene with a background and a character in it and you
  want him to wave so you only want to update the arm moving and keep
  the rest of the scene the same without having to redraw it all (to
  save on drawing time).
 
  Is there a way to do this? Or is it an all or nothing deal when
  redrawing a canvas?
 
  If there is an obvious way or if I misinterpreted how the onDraw works
  then I apologize.
 
  Thank you
 
  -Chris
 
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 --
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 Android framework engineer
 romain...@android.com

 Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time
 to provide private support.  All such questions should be posted on
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Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2010-01-04 Thread chris harper

Thank you Dianne

Thanks for the information on Flash. It gave me the direction I needed and
it is good to know where Flash and Android stand. In another year or two who
knows right?

I been studying the Lunar Lander example as far as the graphics and it looks
like a good way to go and I started a new design for my application.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

I hope you a good holiday.

-Chris

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:42 PM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 So what you are saying is that Android development doesn't really want
 developers building applications that use Flash?


 Only a few phones have Flash at this point so, no, I would not suggest
 using it.

 Longer term...  well, it would be problematic for this to become a standard
 part of the Android SDK.  Given that flash is proprietary, that would leave
 us with the platform becoming dependent on someone else's proprietary code
 in order to support these apps.  This is very counter to a basic philosophy
 of Android, that the entire platform is open-source and thus you don't need
 to someone's proprietary code to build an android compatible device.

 (And to head off the inevitable cries about not really being open-source --
 yes there are bits and pieces that are not open source, such as hardware
 drivers and applications like Market.  This is a far cry from baking
 dependencies on non-open-source code into the standard APIs, though.)


 But it now sounds like if anyone wants to develop an Android app that uses
 Flash it'll be more of a gamble and might not work for most devices or at
 the least be a hassle for the end user to make it work because they would
 have to install Flash plugins.


 I can't tell you what devices Flash may or may not be available on, because
 it is owned by Adobe.  Clearly they have a self-interest in getting it as
 widely spread as possible, but from the perspective of the platform we can't
 make any guarantees about who can include it on a device, the kinds of
 hardware it can run on, and how well it would perform.  And that is one of
 the big rubs.


 It is kind of disappointing because if Android and Adobe can get together
 and start supporting development of applications that use Flash then that
 would be an Ace in the hole for making Android apps far better than the
 IPhone.


 The first step for having some technology adopted for the standard Android
 platform is to make it available under an open-source license that is
 compatible with the rest of the platform.  Somehow, I don't see this
 happening for Flash. :}

 --
 Dianne Hackborn
 Android framework engineer
 hack...@android.com

 Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
 provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
 questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
 answer them.

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Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-30 Thread chris harper

No not totally tied to Flash. It's just that Flash would have fit really
well with what I wanted to do because I could have designed my characters
and animated them in CS4 and they set it up really nice in CS4 to create
.swf's for a mobile projects where I could have then ported the .swf into my
Android app that I wanted to build.

That is where in my opinion if Android and Adobe would get together and
create a nice plugin (like Android did with eclipse) for CS4 to create
Android app's with Flash in them then we would REALLY start to see some
sweet apps coming out for Android and that would be a big step up over
IPhone apps. This would benefit both parties greatly. More market share for
Adobe and better apps for Android.

Until then I can see Diane's point though were until Flash becomes more
mainstream on the mobile devices you are limiting your app on which users
can use it if depends on Flash until more devices can support it.

I have no doubt that the Adobe folks will be going head strong to make Flash
more available in 2010 for more devices and I am excited about that.

You are right Sena I have not looked to in depth at the animation within
androids library's but last night I took good look at the Lunar Lander
example and how to animate within the Android's native library. I think that
might be a good route to go now.
I am thinking that I can design my characters and backgrounds using ToonBoom
studio and then import the images and backgrounds and animate them with
android native code.


Hopefully a good one idea??

That is my direction now. Unless anyone else knows of maybe a better
solution I am totally open to suggestions and thank you everyone for your
input.

:-)

-Chris

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:48 AM, Sena Gbeckor-Kove s...@imkon.com wrote:

 Hi Chris,

 Are you totally tied to wanting to do this using Flash or would you be fine
 with doing it in native code. If so it sounds pretty easy to implement
 without Flash.

 Or is there a lot more ActionScript you need to interact with?

 S


 On 29 Dec 2009, at 22:45, chris harper wrote:

 Hey Sena

 It looks like I have to do a little more research between Flash 9 and
 FlashLite. I will do that tonight. Thank you.

 Unfortunately I have the Sprint HTC HERO which as I recently found out is
 less open to find ROM updates. I will search for the Sense 2 that you
 referred to. I might get lucky. :-)

 I am doing a proof of concept right now for an app that I want to do.
 For my app to work I will need to interact certain system actions on the
 phone with code in Flash (actionscript 2 which FlashLite supports).
 I have not found a way for Java (i.e. an android app) to interact with
 actionScript directly.

 The bridge I found is javascript.

 ActionScript WILL interact with javascript.
 Java also interact with javascript as seen here with WebView.
 http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/
 Check out the *WebViewDemo.*

 So what I am trying to do is when an action happens ( for example the phone
 ringing or other events on the phone)  that triggers a call to javascript
 which will then in turn send an action to the actionScript within flash
 which will then perform an animation or something.
 If I can only find a way to actually display the flash content within
 WebView.

 I might be out in right field on this and if I am please feel free to give
 me a virtual slap around but this is the only way I can find to do what I
 want.

 -Chris

 On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Sena Gbeckor-Kove s...@imkon.com wrote:

 Hi Chris,

 From what I kwow there are quite a few differences between Flash 9 and
 Flash Lite. A quick Google should fill you in.

 You'll definitely need one of the standard Hero roms unless somebody has
 hacked the Flash files onto a custom rom. If you must have something more
 recent you might want to track down the Sense 2 rom. I know that runs on
 Hero. There are videos of it floating about. Or just wait, for 2 months for
 HTC to drop the official 2.x update.

 I must say I'm intrigued as to why you want to create such a WebView when
 only Hero owners will be able to use it at present. Of course once Flash
 10.1 turns up for Android everybody should be able to play.

 Q2 2010?

 S
 On 29 Dec 2009, at 17:51, chris harper wrote:


 Sena - I picked up a book on writing Flash content for mobile devices and
 from I understand from the book is that FlashLite is based off of Flash 9.
 They are essentially the same thing. Where anything written for Flash 9
 (with actionscript 2) can be run in FlashLite. That is my current
 understanding between the two. There might be minor differences. I did
 flash my HTC HERO about a month ago and that thought did cross my mind that
 maybe the FlashLite got messed up in the process. So my current thought
 process is to FLASH HTC's newest ROM onto my Hero:

 http://www.htc.com/uk/SupportViewNews.aspx?dl_id=671news_id=254

 I think this will be my best bet for getting the most updated Flash from
 HTC onto my HERO

Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-30 Thread chris harper

Oh no don't get that impression I am very much a coder. Degrees in Computer
Science. I have been writing Java and OO for years with weblogic and MDB's.

I am totally willing to do the coding for my application.

I just was looking for a straight forward way to create new animations for
my application that users can download that my app can run with out having
to add a bunch of new code for each new animation is what I was aiming for.
I was invensioning this with the .swf files.

Someone just pointed me to this nice suite which seems very promising:

http://developer.openplug.com/

I don't know if anyone has used it yet but it looks like it has a lot of
possibilities.

I'll take a good look at it tonight.

The biggest challenge I find as a developer is not that if I can find a way
to do something or not but rather what is the BEST way to do it with all the
different options out there. So I like to explore many different paths.

:-)

-Chris

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Sena Gbeckor-Kove s...@imkon.com wrote:

 Hi Chris,

  No not totally tied to Flash. It's just that Flash would have fit really
 well with what I wanted to do because I could have designed my characters
 and animated them in CS4 and they set it up really nice in CS4 to create
 .swf's for a mobile projects where I could have then ported the .swf into my
 Android app that I wanted to build.
 
  That is where in my opinion if Android and Adobe would get together and
 create a nice plugin (like Android did with eclipse) for CS4 to create
 Android app's with Flash in them then we would REALLY start to see some
 sweet apps coming out for Android and that would be a big step up over
 IPhone apps. This would benefit both parties greatly. More market share for
 Adobe and better apps for Android.

 That paragraph suggests to me that you're not a big coder. The tools for
 developing in Flash runtime environments are certainly easier to use to
 create graphics heavy output, however you have a more control

 From what's coming out of Adobe, I'd expect them to be able to create the
 tools but its a case of whether is the market right now.

  Until then I can see Diane's point though were until Flash becomes more
 mainstream on the mobile devices you are limiting your app on which users
 can use it if depends on Flash until more devices can support it.
 
  I have no doubt that the Adobe folks will be going head strong to make
 Flash more available in 2010 for more devices and I am excited about that.
 
  You are right Sena I have not looked to in depth at the animation within
 androids library's but last night I took good look at the Lunar Lander
 example and how to animate within the Android's native library. I think that
 might be a good route to go now.
  I am thinking that I can design my characters and backgrounds using
 ToonBoom studio and then import the images and backgrounds and animate them
 with android native code.

 You should have no trouble designing your animations in most tools and then
 exporting the frames as pngs.

 Good Luck
 S

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Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-29 Thread chris harper

Sena - I picked up a book on writing Flash content for mobile devices and
from I understand from the book is that FlashLite is based off of Flash 9.
They are essentially the same thing. Where anything written for Flash 9
(with actionscript 2) can be run in FlashLite. That is my current
understanding between the two. There might be minor differences.I did flash
my HTC HERO about a month ago and that thought did cross my mind that maybe
the FlashLite got messed up in the process. So my current thought process is
to FLASH HTC's newest ROM onto my Hero:

http://www.htc.com/uk/SupportViewNews.aspx?dl_id=671news_id=254

I think this will be my best bet for getting the most updated Flash from HTC
onto my HERO and (hopefully if the moons align) be able to write a little
WebView client to read .swf files.

-Chris

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Sena Gbeckor-Kove s...@imkon.com wrote:

If you've flashed you Hero with somethign else you'll have removed the
Flash Plugin. Unless you have a cracked ROM that includes Flash.

On 28 Dec 2009, at 20:30, chris harper wrote:

Ok. It is becoming clear now.

Flash is licensed per device. So even though you have different devices all
running Android, only the ones that are licensed for Flash can implement it.
Is that correct?

I didn't mention that I do have an HTC Hero (as well as my android
development phone). It is running Firmware version 1.5.
I also tried doing the WebView as stated in the article testing on this
device and also got the same result as my android development phone when
trying to view a .swf (a screen full of random characters).

From what you told me it sounds like I need to go down the road of
continuing to test my WebView stub on my HTC Hero and maybe looking into why
my flashlite plugin doesn't seem to be working with my WebView stub code?

Does that sound about right to you Mark?

Thank you again, this really does help me alot.

-Chris

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote:

chris harper wrote:
According to this article it is had been done and is possible:

http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2009/08/12/flash-development-with-android-part2/

The very first sentence of that post:

As we already know by now the HTC Hero supports Flash in the browser,
and by double tapping on Flash content it will be played in full screen
mode.

You will note that this says HTC Hero. The HTC Hero is a device, for
which HTC licensed a Flash (Lite) implementation.

But again like I stated before, after downloading the latest source
code, building it, flashing it to my development phone and flash still
not working I am having my doubts (and greatly wondering how this guy
said it is working).

That is because he is referring to the HTC Hero.

Do you know if this is even somewhat possible (maybe a FlashLite plugin
I am missing or something?).

This presumably will work on an HTC Hero -- I haven't tried it. It will
not work on devices that did not license Flash (Lite) from Adobe. It
most definitely will not work from the Android open source tree, because
Flash is not open source.

--
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http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy

Android App Developer Books: http://commonsware.com/books

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Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-29 Thread chris harper

Hey Sena

It looks like I have to do a little more research between Flash 9 and
FlashLite. I will do that tonight. Thank you.

Unfortunately I have the Sprint HTC HERO which as I recently found out is
less open to find ROM updates. I will search for the Sense 2 that you
referred to. I might get lucky. :-)

I am doing a proof of concept right now for an app that I want to do.
For my app to work I will need to interact certain system actions on the
phone with code in Flash (actionscript 2 which FlashLite supports).
I have not found a way for Java (i.e. an android app) to interact with
actionScript directly.

The bridge I found is javascript.

ActionScript WILL interact with javascript.
Java also interact with javascript as seen here with WebView.
http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/
Check out the *WebViewDemo.*

So what I am trying to do is when an action happens ( for example the phone
ringing or other events on the phone)  that triggers a call to javascript
which will then in turn send an action to the actionScript within flash
which will then perform an animation or something.
If I can only find a way to actually display the flash content within
WebView.

I might be out in right field on this and if I am please feel free to give
me a virtual slap around but this is the only way I can find to do what I
want.

-Chris

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Sena Gbeckor-Kove s...@imkon.com wrote:

 Hi Chris,

 From what I kwow there are quite a few differences between Flash 9 and
 Flash Lite. A quick Google should fill you in.

 You'll definitely need one of the standard Hero roms unless somebody has
 hacked the Flash files onto a custom rom. If you must have something more
 recent you might want to track down the Sense 2 rom. I know that runs on
 Hero. There are videos of it floating about. Or just wait, for 2 months for
 HTC to drop the official 2.x update.

 I must say I'm intrigued as to why you want to create such a WebView when
 only Hero owners will be able to use it at present. Of course once Flash
 10.1 turns up for Android everybody should be able to play.

 Q2 2010?

 S
 On 29 Dec 2009, at 17:51, chris harper wrote:


 Sena - I picked up a book on writing Flash content for mobile devices and
 from I understand from the book is that FlashLite is based off of Flash 9.
 They are essentially the same thing. Where anything written for Flash 9
 (with actionscript 2) can be run in FlashLite. That is my current
 understanding between the two. There might be minor differences. I did
 flash my HTC HERO about a month ago and that thought did cross my mind that
 maybe the FlashLite got messed up in the process. So my current thought
 process is to FLASH HTC's newest ROM onto my Hero:

 http://www.htc.com/uk/SupportViewNews.aspx?dl_id=671news_id=254

 I think this will be my best bet for getting the most updated Flash from
 HTC onto my HERO and (hopefully if the moons align) be able to write a
 little WebView client to read .swf files.

 -Chris



 On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Sena Gbeckor-Kove s...@imkon.com wrote:

 If you've flashed you Hero with somethign else you'll have removed the
 Flash Plugin. Unless you have a cracked ROM that includes Flash.

 S


 On 28 Dec 2009, at 20:30, chris harper wrote:

 Ok. It is becoming clear now.

 Flash is licensed per device. So even though you have different devices
 all running Android, only the ones that are licensed for Flash can implement
 it. Is that correct?

 I didn't mention that I do have an HTC Hero (as well as my android
 development phone). It is running Firmware version 1.5.
 I also tried doing the WebView as stated in the article testing on this
 device and also got the same result as my android development phone when
 trying to view a .swf (a screen full of random characters).

 From what you told me it sounds like I need to go down the road of
 continuing to test my WebView stub on my HTC Hero and maybe looking into why
 my flashlite plugin doesn't seem to be working with my WebView stub code?

 Does that sound about right to you Mark?

 Thank you again, this really does help me alot.

 -Chris



 On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote:

 chris harper wrote:
  According to this article it is had been done and is possible:
 
 http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2009/08/12/flash-development-with-android-part2/

 The very first sentence of that post:

 As we already know by now the HTC Hero supports Flash in the browser,
 and by double tapping on Flash content it will be played in full screen
 mode.

 You will note that this says HTC Hero. The HTC Hero is a device, for
 which HTC licensed a Flash (Lite) implementation.

  But again like I stated before, after downloading the latest source
  code, building it, flashing it to my development phone and flash still
  not working I am having my doubts (and greatly wondering how this guy
  said it is working).

 That is because he is referring to the HTC Hero.

  Do you know

Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-29 Thread chris harper

Dianne

Really?
So what you are saying is that Android development doesn't really want
developers building applications that use Flash?
I can see your point on how Flash is tied to certain devices but I was
assuming that in 2010 more support from both the adobe and android camps
would be working together toward making flash more of  a standard so
developers can start writing some really cool apps to take advantage of
Flashes capabilities. As shown by this video by adobe:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/articles/htchero.html

So that was my current focus.

But it now sounds like if anyone wants to develop an Android app that uses
Flash it'll be more of a gamble and might not work for most devices or at
the least be a hassle for the end user to make it work because they would
have to install Flash plugins.

That kind of sucks but thank you for the information before I dove to deep
into my project.

It is kind of disappointing because if Android and Adobe can get together
and start supporting development of applications that use Flash then that
would be an Ace in the hole for making Android apps far better than the
IPhone.
Yes I know Adobe CS5 has a feature on compiling Flash into IPhone apps but
it's compiled code with MANY limitations and users still can not browse
Flash based websites or upload .swf files and load them dynamically (that
was the first route I took for my idea). :-)

My backup plan is to use OpenGL and I will take that route now but it just
didn't have as cool features for animation as Flash unless anyone else has
any other suggestions?

Thank you again Dianne
-Chris



On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.comwrote:

 On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:45 PM, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am doing a proof of concept right now for an app that I want to do.
 For my app to work I will need to interact certain system actions on the
 phone with code in Flash (actionscript 2 which FlashLite supports).
 I have not found a way for Java (i.e. an android app) to interact with
 actionScript directly.


 Hi, the platform currently doesn't support Flash.  I would ask that you
 please do not put applications up on the Market that rely on Flash, as they
 will be very tied to specific devices that may happen to have it.

 Even if at some point Flash is more generally supported on the platform, it
 may well be an optional plug-in for users to download, so you would want to
 think very seriously about whether you want rely on that with the attendant
 hassles for the user of having to install Flash to use your app.  And of
 course the minimum platform version your app would be compatible with is
 whichever one this feature appears on -- for example, however you get it to
 work with the HTC Hero will probably not match a standard platform facility,
 since this is a non-standard platform feature owned by HTC.

 Of course for futzing around with your own private app, have at it and do
 what you want.  But for things that are intended to go on market, please
 keep this in mind.

 --
 Dianne Hackborn
 Android framework engineer
 hack...@android.com

 Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
 provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails.  All such
 questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
 answer them.

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[android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-28 Thread chris harper

I kept reading about how one of the biggest news about eclair coming
out in 2010 is that  support for Flash 10 (or ANY Flash for that
matter) will be built into it.

This does not appear to be the case for the fact that I download all
the latest source code for Eclair, built and installed Eclair onto my
development phone over the Christmas break and to my surprise/
disappointment there is absolutely no support for Flash when I try to
view with the browser. I tried plugin's and searching for missing .apk
installs for Flash but I found nothing.

Unless I am missing something (i.e. maybe a side tree build for
flash?)  and if I did then I apologize but from what I can tell as of
now the Eclair build does and will not support flash.

If anyone knows ANYTHING on this topic on this please update for us.

Thank you

-Chris

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Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-28 Thread chris harper

Thank you Mark for the clarification it is greatly appreciated.
With so many different sources on the internet it is somewhat difficult to
know what is actually available and what isn't.

One more question if you happen to know this. All I am simply trying to do
is create a WebView (using android.webkit.Webview) and view a .swf file with
it.

According to this article it is had been done and is possible:
http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2009/08/12/flash-development-with-android-part2/

But again like I stated before, after downloading the latest source code,
building it, flashing it to my development phone and flash still not working
I am having my doubts (and greatly wondering how this guy said it is
working).

Do you know if this is even somewhat possible (maybe a FlashLite plugin I am
missing or something?).

Or am just out of luck on this one.

Thank you
-Chris

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote:

chris harper wrote:
I kept reading about how one of the biggest news about eclair coming
out in 2010 is that support for Flash 10 (or ANY Flash for that
matter) will be built into it.

1. Eclair came out in 2009.

2. AFAIK, nowhere credible was it written that Eclair would have support
for Flash 10 built into it.

This does not appear to be the case for the fact that I download all
the latest source code for Eclair, built and installed Eclair onto my
development phone over the Christmas break and to my surprise/
disappointment there is absolutely no support for Flash when I try to
view with the browser. I tried plugin's and searching for missing .apk
installs for Flash but I found nothing.

Flash is not open source.

Right now, the most that can reasonably be expected is for Flash to be
available from Adobe for Android OEMs to license and put on their
devices. HTC has already done this with the Hero, albeit for more of a
Flash Lite profile than a full Flash 10 implementation. This is not
significantly different than codecs for non-open-source media file
formats (e.g., WMA, WMV) being available for OEMs to license from
PacketVideo.

--
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy

Android Consulting/App Development: http://commonsware.com/consulting

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Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-28 Thread chris harper

Ok. It is becoming clear now.

Flash is licensed per device. So even though you have different devices all
running Android, only the ones that are licensed for Flash can implement it.
Is that correct?

Does that sound about right to you Mark?

Thank you again, this really does help me alot.

-Chris

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote:

chris harper wrote:
According to this article it is had been done and is possible:

http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2009/08/12/flash-development-with-android-part2/

The very first sentence of that post:

As we already know by now the HTC Hero supports Flash in the browser,
and by double tapping on Flash content it will be played in full screen
mode.

You will note that this says HTC Hero. The HTC Hero is a device, for
which HTC licensed a Flash (Lite) implementation.

That is because he is referring to the HTC Hero.

Do you know if this is even somewhat possible (maybe a FlashLite plugin
I am missing or something?).

--
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
http://commonsware.com | http://twitter.com/commonsguy

Android App Developer Books: http://commonsware.com/books

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Re: [android-developers] Re: No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-28 Thread chris harper

Thank you.

I also have the HTC Hero (along with my development phone) I bought it for
the reason to view Flash.

But I can not get my webview stub code to view flash content as specified in
that article I referenced (specifically a .swf file I am trying to open on
my sdcard).

All I get is a page with random characters displayed.

I think I might be missing a flashlite plugin or something?

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM, theSmith chris.smith...@gmail.com wrote:

As Mark said, unless you have a Hero, which has flash built it, this
will not work.

On Dec 28, 1:38 pm, chris harper ch393...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Mark for the clarification it is greatly appreciated.
With so many different sources on the internet it is somewhat difficult
to
know what is actually available and what isn't.

One more question if you happen to know this. All I am simply trying to
do
is create a WebView (using android.webkit.Webview) and view a .swf file
with
it.

According to this article it is had been done and is possible:
http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2009/08/12/flash-development-with-andr...

But again like I stated before, after downloading the latest source code,
building it, flashing it to my development phone and flash still not
working
I am having my doubts (and greatly wondering how this guy said it is
working).

Do you know if this is even somewhat possible (maybe a FlashLite plugin I
am
missing or something?).

Or am just out of luck on this one.

Thank you
-Chris

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com
wrote:

chris harper wrote:
I kept reading about how one of the biggest news about eclair coming
out in 2010 is that support for Flash 10 (or ANY Flash for that
matter) will be built into it.

1. Eclair came out in 2009.

2. AFAIK, nowhere credible was it written that Eclair would have
support
for Flash 10 built into it.

Flash is not open source.

--
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http://commonsware.com|http://twitter.com/commonsguy

Android Consulting/App Development:http://commonsware.com/consulting

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Re: [android-developers] No Adobe Flash support for Eclair!?!

2009-12-28 Thread chris harper

Mark, Mr theSmith?

Thank you for your input. You pointed me in the right direction.

I wrote that guy that did that article but he is out of office until Jan
4th. I would like to compare notes with him and get my code working on my
HTC HERO to run my .swf file.

If I get mine working I'll post back and let you guys know as I believe
Flash will start to become a bigger issue in 2010 with more development for
android going on.

-Chris

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote:

chris harper wrote:
Flash is licensed per device. So even though you have different devices
all running Android, only the ones that are licensed for Flash can
implement it. Is that correct?

Yup!

It is conceivable that Adobe could make a downloadable Flash client for
Android, but I'm skeptical they can pull that off. I think it will
require too many low-level hooks to perform properly.

However, I will be happy to be proven wrong on that point, someday.

H...it's possible there was a minor firmware upgrade with the Hero
that changed the functionality.

From what you told me it sounds like I need to go down the road of
continuing to test my WebView stub on my HTC Hero and maybe looking into
why my flashlite plugin doesn't seem to be working with my WebView stub
code?

Does that sound about right to you Mark?

Yes.

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_The Busy Coder's Guide to *Advanced* Android Development_
Version 1.3 Available!

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[android-developers] PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! help. This has been driving me nuts! Android source on Mac 10.6

2009-12-23 Thread chris harper

I am trying to build Eclair on Snow Leopard 10.6.

I have installed followed everything that is listed here (under MAC)
to the letter:

http://source.android.com/download

I have tried everything here:
http://simonrules.com/?p=265cpage=1#comment-12255

I installed JDK 1.5 as listed here:
http://wiki.oneswarm.org/index.php/OS_X_10.6_Snow_Leopard
and changed my java version a few times between   JDK 1.6 (32 and 64)
and 1.5 (32 and 64).

So my JDK version dir looks like:
cd /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions

1.5.0
1.3.1
1.3 - 1.3.1
1.6 - 1.6.0
1.6.0
Current - A
A
CurrentJDK - A
1.5 - 1.5.0

I installed patches as listed here:
http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/browse_thread/thread/32ec94659fd68c9c

I still AlWAYS get:

PLATFORM_VERSION_CODENAME=Eclair
PLATFORM_VERSION=Eclair
TARGET_PRODUCT=generic
TARGET_BUILD_VARIANT=eng
TARGET_SIMULATOR=
TARGET_BUILD_TYPE=release
TARGET_ARCH=arm
HOST_ARCH=x86
HOST_OS=darwin
HOST_BUILD_TYPE=release
BUILD_ID=ECLAIR

build/core/copy_headers.mk:15: warning: overriding commands for target
`out/target/product/generic/obj/include/libpv/getactualaacconfig.h'
build/core/copy_headers.mk:15: warning: ignoring old commands for
target `out/target/product/generic/obj/include/libpv/
getactualaacconfig.h'
/bin/bash: line 0: cd: development/tools/layoutopt/app/src/resources:
No such file or directory
host C: libclearsilver-jni = external/clearsilver/java-jni/
j_neo_util.c
external/clearsilver/java-jni/j_neo_util.c:2:17: error: jni.h: No such
file or directory
In file included from external/clearsilver/java-jni/j_neo_util.c:3:
out/host/darwin-x86/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libclearsilver-
jni_intermediates/org_clearsilver_HDF.h:15: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’,
‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘jlong’
out/host/darwin-x86/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libclearsilver-
jni_intermediates/org_clearsilver_HDF.h:23: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’,
‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘void’
out/host/darwin-x86/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libclearsilver-
jni_intermediates/org_clearsilver_HDF.h:31: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’,
‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘jboolean’
out/host/darwin-x86/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libclearsilver-
jni_intermediates/org_clearsilver_HDF.h:39: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’,
‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘jboolean’

many more of the same errors...
until...


external/clearsilver/java-jni/j_neo_util.c:422: error: expected ‘=’,
‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘jlong’
external/clearsilver/java-jni/j_neo_util.c:431: error: expected ‘=’,
‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘jlong’
external/clearsilver/java-jni/j_neo_util.c:440: error: expected ‘=’,
‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘jstring’
external/clearsilver/java-jni/j_neo_util.c:453: error: expected ‘=’,
‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘jstring’
external/clearsilver/java-jni/j_neo_util.c:466: error: expected ‘=’,
‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘void’
make: *** [out/host/darwin-x86/obj/SHARED_LIBRARIES/libclearsilver-
jni_intermediates/j_neo_util.o] Error 1

PLEASE ANY help would be a godsend.

Thank you

-Chris






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[android-developers] Recording from MIC in real time

2009-12-13 Thread chris harper

Hi everyone. Merry xmas.

I have been looking relentlessly for over a week to see if doing what
I need to do is possible on the Android system and going crazy in the
process.

I know you can read input in from the MIC via two ways

1. new AudioRecord(MediaRecorder.AudioSource.MIC... and whatever
parameters
This way you CAN access the buffer in realtime.

OR

2. MediaRecorder recorder = new MediaRecorder();
recorder.setAudioSource(MediaRecorder.AudioSource.MIC);
This way it seems to write it out to a file and you CAN NOT seem to
access the buffer at all while it is doing that.

Given the two ways to read data from the MIC. Is there ANY way that
you know to analyze amplitude and frequency in REALTIME. I know most
streaming data seems to need the length of the file before it can do
this. Although I noticed in your Audacity you SEEM to show the
frequency WHILE you are recording. This is EXACTLY what I want to do
from the mic on the android system.

All I really need to do is run events when it is detected that someone
speaks while on a phone call. I DO NOT need a specific words. I just
need to run one event when it is detected that someone speaks at all
(I am doing a little animation). Specifically the incoming persons
voice while on a phone call.

I know I can't use javax, android development doesn't want that.
Speech recognition doesn't seem to all be there (at least for my HTC
HERO which is running 1.5) so that is a dead end.

So am thinking of analyzing amplitude and frequency is the way to do
go if that is possible. I might have to write and read from the output
file for MediaRecorder at the same time is my next line of thinking
using threads/locking etc..

Additionally as mentioned above, if you can also tell me if there is
ANYWAY at all to also separate (to analyze) the incoming callers voice
in the MIC from the outgoing callers voice in the data-stream (I am
thinking STEREO, LEFT, RIGHT when it comes to samples/frames) because
the UPLINK, DOWNLINK ways do not seem to be supported (buggy from
everywhere I have read) or just plain not available at all in 1.5 so
they are not even an option.

Thank you for your time and have a wonderful holiday.

-Chris

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[android-developers] Flash Lite and Android

2009-12-13 Thread chris harper

Hi

Has anyone done much development for Flash Lite on Android? What I am
trying to do is upload the a .swf file to android, add in an image
into Flash (via actionscript) and play the movie. Has anyone done this
yet?

If so what has been your experience? Is it easy to do?

Also as a side note had anyone found ANY way to communicate from
Android (Java) to Flash (activeScript)?

I know you can communicate from FLASH (actionscript) to javascript. So
it might have to be Java-Javascript-ActiveScript.

Unless anyone knows of any other way.

Thank you.

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[android-developers] Recording from MIC (merry xmas everyone)

2009-12-13 Thread chris harper

Hi

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