Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 135, Issue 78
Were there any Puchaz spin fatalities in Australia? I know that DDSC used them for spin training from mid nineties without an incident. Cheers Paul On Dec 28, 2014 1:32 PM, Daryl Mackay darylmac...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Richard, Fear of manoeuvring when low level might have an inexperienced pilot over ruddering the turn. This pro-spin cross control in low level turbulent air (higher g transients) can certainly drive one into an incipient spin. Coupled with lack of spin currency hightening a natural fear when pointing at the ground at such low heights and perhaps driving one to pull back on the stick. We certainly see similar response in many other types of accidents where clear evidence proves pilot error. (Passenger airliners spin in too and there is clear black box evidence of this.) Also, at BSS we had the chance to observe back seat video of a wings level sideways landing into a soft sandy paddock where the yaw string was at right angle to the longitudinal axis. The low hours pilot was evidently still trying to turn the ACFT with rudder alone. The scooping action shown by the wheel track confirmed the video. So there is enough evidence that pilots react adversely under pressure. In any case, to an experienced witness on the ground, we sometimes get a pretty good idea if the correct anti-spin recovery was initiated. With reference to an earlier comment. I spoke to one of the instructors who had the near accident in a Puchacz at Beverley. He told me they were experimenting with the spin by holding in the anti-spin controls held in after recovery to check entry characteristics for the opposite direction. My understanding was that doing this over the hills to the west of the field with AFLD QFE set on the altimeters complicating the situation. In any case they recovered from the spin but it was a harrowing experence at this low height recovery. In any case, it was not a required JAR 22 manoeuvre for the manufacturer to run, a Flight Manual procedure, a GFA procedure and the height was a further consideration. So this was (in my opinion) an ad hoc test flight that went wrong for the pilots. Luckily they still made a recovery from the subsequent spin all be it to a landing on higher ground than expected. Apologies to the other pilot whom I have not spoken to about this incident. We certainly still spin the Puchacz without restriction at BSS. (Obviously with no part of the manoeuvre planned below 1000ft height as required for all ACFT) So you can appreciate we have no issue with our Puchacz and I haven't had anyone request they use another ACFT for the required training or checking. The remaining issue is currency to remove the fear and at BSS, not the ACFT. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] varios
Hi Mike I would like one please. Cheers Paul On 1 December 2014 at 13:02, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: The new 2015 B600/B800 software is available. A minor bugfix and some re-arrangement of the GCD for better ergonomics (mostly can fly just on the one display page). Plus some internal cleanups. Email me off list for a copy. I'll take a photo of the new GCD flying page later this afternoon I hope. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] varios
Funny Cheers Paul On 1 December 2014 at 14:00, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: [image: Winking smile] *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *Sent:* Monday, December 01, 2014 1:50 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] varios Hi Mike I would like one please. Cheers Paul On 1 December 2014 at 13:02, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: The new 2015 B600/B800 software is available. A minor bugfix and some re-arrangement of the GCD for better ergonomics (mostly can fly just on the one display page). Plus some internal cleanups. Email me off list for a copy. I'll take a photo of the new GCD flying page later this afternoon I hope. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] varios
Already got my reprimand :), with a picture, rather an apt one. Cheers Paul On 1 December 2014 at 14:10, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Offline , please. Mike At 01:50 PM 1/12/2014, you wrote: Hi Mike I would like one please. Cheers Paul On 1 December 2014 at 13:02, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: The new 2015 B600/B800 software is available. A minor bugfix and some re-arrangement of the GCD for better ergonomics (mostly can fly just on the one display page). Plus some internal cleanups. Email me off list for a copy. I'll take a photo of the new GCD flying page later this afternoon I hope. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] The definition of unacceptable content on this list
I would like to comment on this post, however I do not feel free to do so
as I am unable to predict whether or not my comments will offend.
Paul
On Sep 17, 2014 7:01 PM, Simon Hackett si...@base64.com.au wrote:
Gentlepersons,
The body images posted today on the list in an apparent (but in my view,
misguided) attempt at humour were totally unacceptable, in my personal view.
Yes, the Internet *is* full of this s**t, but no, this list is *not* a
place to post it. Ever. This list is called 'aus-soaring', not 'misogynist
humour'
One of the disadvantages of mailing lists (like this one) is that because
they are email, things posted cannot be 'un-posted'. It is one instance
where more 'modern' mechanisms like web forums allow for retrospective
removal of offensive crap - but alas that is not a technical option here.
Email can't really be un-sent.
What I do have as an option available to me, however, is to change the
rules (or to be more specific, to define them - as this list has gotten
along very very well for many years without any)
I much prefer not having to have rules of conduct, on the general basis
that civilised people should be able to act in in a civilised manner
without them.
A distinct disadvantage of setting up participation rules is that (some)
people will then decide to figure out ways to stress-test, skirt, ignore,
or otherwise circumvent them.
However, I can't let today just pass without doing -something-; and as I'm
the one who paid for this list to exist, there is at least some moral
imperative (and, I would argue, moral right) for me to decide to modify the
environment if it has to be modified.
So here goes:
** There will be, forthwith, zero tolerance of people who send material
via the list that causes offence to reasonable people. Such people will be
removed from the list permanently without further discussion or debate **
That isn't merely limited to rude images. Calling names *can* also hurt
people. Don't do that either. Don't offend. Just... don't.
To be blunt:
If you want to be a boorish asshole, do it somewhere else.
The definition of 'offence to reasonable people' is entirely up to the
personal discretion of those who volunteer their personal time to be list
'owners' ('owners' here is meant in the technical sense of receiving
administrative messages and having to perform administrative functions
related to the list, to make it function).
Note: No warnings, no second chances, and no arguments about the
definition of what the list owners decide to be something that 'causes
offence to reasonable people'.
If you want to have an argument about a decision taken by a volunteer list
owner on this basis, on this list, don't do it here.
Instead, please, start your own list and have that debate there (likely
with yourself and nobody else, if today's exercise is any guide).
To those offended by the posts today (as I was) - I apologise on behalf of
those apparently too cowardly to do so themselves, for the offence that
those people clearly caused to others.
I will note that the definition of being offended is ultimately up to the
person who *is* offended, not to the instigator of the offence, to decide
The role of the instigator in this circumstance is not to say 'toughen up'
(or to say nothing), but rather it is for them to learn from what happened,
to apologise, and then to modify their future behaviour to become more
urbane about their interactions in shared interaction environments... or
else to just leave, if they are incapable of, or disinterested in, being
that caring about the welfare and mental state of others around them.
It is, sadly, not possible to stamp out boorish behaviour in societies.
Some people are just built that way. I get that. Really, I do. I've been a
participant in social media for decades - for far longer than the term has
existed.
I have been the direct target of some pretty rugged personal attacks over
that time. In some circumstances I have had to recuse myself from some
discussion spaces for the preservation of my own calm as a result.
But I do not want aus-soaring to be a place where anyone has to feel the
way that I have been made to feel in the past, in that regard, as the
subject of either personal attacks or as the unwilling recipients of
offensive material via this list.
Hence the new list participation rule, as noted above.
Thanks for listening - and I hope that this (somehow) helps more than it
hinders.
Regards,
Simon Hackett
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 53
True, but it was a joke Mike, in the same vein as Richard F would have known that the nose dimpling would not behave as a golf ball and hence no aerodynamic improvement would result. I'll be sure to include a smiley next time though :) Cheers Paul On 11 September 2014 09:45, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: No, the dimples on a golf ball turbulate the boundary layer so that on the rear face you don't get laminar flow separation. The separated region will be larger for laminar flow than for turbulent hence more drag. Mike At 09:23 AM 11/09/2014, you wrote: like a golf ball, maybe is an aerodynamic improvement! At 07:13 PM 10/09/2014, you wrote: Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest... Today's Topics: 1. Hail damage (Future Aviation) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:42:59 +0930 From: Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Hail damage To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 002401cfcd4c$c419fdc0$4c4df940$@on.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all That's what the nose of an Airbus A330 looks like after going through a hail storm in South America. cid:part2.03050805.05090602@btwendl.de Kind regards to all Bernard -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20140911/ab578c3b/attachment.html -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 35885 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20140911/ab578c3b/attachment.jpe -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 53 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Swift Avionics
Hi Does anyone know if Swift Avionics is still an operating business? I have placed an order a week ago and to date it has not been filled nor was I advised of why this is so. Thanks Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Swift Avionics
Thanks Mat, I have bought an antenna at the beginning of August and all was fine then. So lets hope for the best. Cheers Paul On 4 September 2014 14:39, Matt Gage m...@knightschallenge.com wrote: Paul, I received an order last week, so I suspect they are still going - just very very slow and bad at notifying you On 4 Sep 2014, at 14:25 , Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Does anyone know if Swift Avionics is still an operating business? I have placed an order a week ago and to date it has not been filled nor was I advised of why this is so. Thanks Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Swift Avionics
Thank you to all replied, Nathan has now contacted me and all is well. Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
I’ve already told you why I consider leaving Yes you did, so what (no disrespect)? You are one individual. It is your right. For most members, it’s either get behind GFA or be grounded. But most members just may be happy with that. And that is my point, there is no evidence, besides quoting few individual cases, to suggest that it is GFA that is causing causing all the problems in the gliding land. Cheers Paul On 2 September 2014 15:49, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: On Sep 2, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: I was not referring to the actual cost of a medical. That can easily be sourced, and you have provided it here. My point referred to what people leave and why. I’ve already told you why I consider leaving, and it’s to do with GFA’s uniquely restrictive rules. But when people say GFA’s rules inspire members to leave, perhaps that’s just a speculation used to prop someone’s point of view, so there’s no need to listen to it. I’m kinda lucky to have the means and wherewithall to have non-GFA flying credentials. I feel a bit sorry for people who don’t, stuck in the GFA system with no alternative. At least I get the luxury of being able to think about my choices. For most members, it’s either get behind GFA or be grounded. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
That’s just Imposter Syndrome. Alan Barnes knows Ingo would be doing 12. :) Bugger, suddenly I am third-class :) Cheers Paul On 2 September 2014 16:06, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: On Sep 2, 2014, at 3:48 PM, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for a detailed and logical post. Frankly I do not think I would take issue with most points you make. I simply think my personal experience is different. I am not a member of any other flying organisation so I cannot compare. That’s fine, we all come from different backgrounds, and different things are important to all of us. That’s one of the points I was making. For those of us for whom “the freedom of flight” is important in the manner I described, GFA has literally nothing to offer us - indeed, its very existence is an impediment (the CASA GPL would likely be very different if GFA had not been involved in it) The fact is that I do not see that GFA impedes what I want to do, nor what a majority of glider pilots I personally know (a limited sample) do. Does a level 2 instructor impedes my flying, not in the least, do I feel in any way supervised? Not in the least. When it is my turn to run the day, do I interfere with any of the solo pilots? No. It’s not a question of interference, that isn’t the point. You cannot take responsibility for rigging a glider, because GFA seems to be saying that its trained certificate holders lack the alacrity to perform that task without someone else looking over their shoulder and countersigning. When you are running a day, you are on an undefined, open-ended legal liability hook for any accidents or injuries they suffer. Could you have prevented an actionable event by preventing a launch? Even if you couldn’t, could an insurance company’s lawyer paint a picture that says you could? You might not even know those other pilots, but you’ve “taken charge” of their operation. Do you know what that means? And anyone who isn’t an instructor *should* feel “in any way supervised” because that’s what the instructor’s actual job is. Everyone is under supervision. All the time. I don’t know how to describe how oppressive that is for the group of pilots for whom “freedom of flight” is important; how much the knowledge that you can never be so well trained or well skilled that you can be trusted to command your own aircraft can suck the enjoyment out of the sport — When that’s precisely the expectation held by pilots in literally every other aviation discipline I’ve ever come into contact with. I can remember 14 years ago, one of the very first aus-soaring messages I ever read was Mike Borgelt making the entirely reasonable observation that it is impossible for a L2 Independent Operator to legally fly his own self-launching glider out of his own private airfield, because the act of rigging it requires another GFA member to be physically present to countersign the maintenance release. 14 years later, *nothing has changed.* How is that possible? That renders the entire L2 Independent Operator rating worthless. How pathetic is it that so much time can pass without such an obvious regulatory defect being closed? So the only time I feel as a second-class aviator is when i hook into a 6 kt thermal and I know that Alan Barnes would be doing 8 :). That’s just Imposter Syndrome. Alan Barnes knows Ingo would be doing 12. :) - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
On 2 September 2014 18:06, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: What’s with that? As I do not know I'll withdraw Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
On 2 September 2014 07:38, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Simon, can you (and other members of this newsgroup) let me in on your thinking, please? Bernard There were about 80 emails written on this topic over the last few days all saying about the same thing, all written by the same few contributors. It would seem to me that if you need them to let you know their thinking once again, then perhaps you have not read their contribution carefully enough. Frankly, I am more interested in maintaining a simple and inexpensive system to fly gliders in Australia. Given the fragile state of of participation in gliding I fear that any rise in complexity and / or cost will simply drive more people away. You say When our newcomers realise that they will always be treated as second class aviators we can't blame them when they vote with their feet. Well I have been involved in gliding for some fourteen years now, with a reasonably sized club and I am yet to encounter any pilot being too worried about being classed as second class aviator. Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Hi Bernard No I do not. Firstly, the issue of a check flight. I do not see that the two situations are analogous. Generally, but granted not exclusively, the check flight is for pilots wishing to fly a club aircraft. I think that every club has the right to protect their equipment. Secondly, a pilot landing at an airfield is no different to a motorist on a road. If you have the appropriate qualifications, you can enjoy the rights that those qualifications entitle you to. Launching from a club airfield, you are joining an operation. I think that the operation, read club, has rights, that are et least equal to yours. As for the costs, I am simply in no position to support mine or refute your arguments. However I do know that there is an entire industry in Europe to help individuals / companies to deal with the regulation bloat, at a considerable cost. Equally, an increase in regulation also leads to an increase in corruption. I do not see either as desirable. Finally a number of posters indicated that we may be losing potential glider pilots, because the GFA rules, yet I see people turning their backs on power flying, often citing cost (medicals etc.) and complexity as a reason. I do not know how the numbers stack up, but chances are that neither do you. So it is just a speculation used to prop someones point of view. Frankly I have seen no empirical data to support any point of view, or to make conclusions about the detrimental or beneficial influence on glider pilot retention / loss from the current rules. Cheers Paul On 2 September 2014 13:43, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hello Paul Thank you! This is the sort of feedback I was hoping for. If my interpretation of this tread is correct previous discussions revolved mainly about competition licences and not about operations of competent glider pilots without instructor oversight. Let’s put this side issue aside and focus on your concerns about a “rise in complexity and/or cost” for now. This is quite simply unfounded as it was made very clear that glider pilots not aspiring to a licence can continue to operate as usual and without an additional cost burden. The real issue is bringing gliding in line with international standards and long established practices of other Australian aviation bodies. The question remains, why can’t properly licensed glider pilots be treated exactly like fully licensed power pilots? Can you imagine a power pilot being asked for a check flight on landing at another airfield? Can you see my point now? Kind regards Bernard *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul Bart *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 September 2014 10:20 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes On 2 September 2014 07:38, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Simon, can you (and other members of this newsgroup) let me in on your thinking, please? Bernard There were about 80 emails written on this topic over the last few days all saying about the same thing, all written by the same few contributors. It would seem to me that if you need them to let you know their thinking once again, then perhaps you have not read their contribution carefully enough. Frankly, I am more interested in maintaining a simple and inexpensive system to fly gliders in Australia. Given the fragile state of of participation in gliding I fear that any rise in complexity and / or cost will simply drive more people away. You say When our newcomers realise that they will always be treated as second class aviators we can't blame them when they vote with their feet. Well I have been involved in gliding for some fourteen years now, with a reasonably sized club and I am yet to encounter any pilot being too worried about being classed as second class aviator. Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Hi Mark I was not referring to the actual cost of a medical. That can easily be sourced, and you have provided it here. My point referred to what people leave and why. Cheers Paul On 2 September 2014 15:00, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: On Sep 2, 2014, at 2:29 PM, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: Finally a number of posters indicated that we may be losing potential glider pilots, because the GFA rules, yet I see people turning their backs on power flying, often citing cost (medicals etc.) and complexity as a reason. I do not know how the numbers stack up, but chances are that neither do you. So it is just a speculation used to prop someones point of view. I know how the numbers stack up, because I do both. A CASA Class-2 medical from a DAME costs $80 plus GST. It is one of the most trivial expenses it’s possible to accrue in aviation, excepting perhaps the $6 it costs to land a GA light aircraft at an AVdata country airport. And as of yesterday, under Part 61 you don’t need one anyway. Switch to a drivers license medical from your GP, fly up to 1500kg MTOW with 1 passenger, fixed pitch, fixed gear, no aerobatics, day VFR. Sold. Anyone who says they’re giving up flying due to the cost of a medical probably flunked theirs because they were on hallucinogenic drugs. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Hi Mark Thank you for a detailed and logical post. Frankly I do not think I would take issue with most points you make. I simply think my personal experience is different. I am not a member of any other flying organisation so I cannot compare. The fact is that I do not see that GFA impedes what I want to do, nor what a majority of glider pilots I personally know (a limited sample) do. Does a level 2 instructor impedes my flying, not in the least, do I feel in any way supervised? Not in the least. When it is my turn to run the day, do I interfere with any of the solo pilots? No. So the only time I feel as a second-class aviator is when i hook into a 6 kt thermal and I know that Alan Barnes would be doing 8 :). Cheers Paul On 2 September 2014 12:30, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: On Sep 2, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: You say When our newcomers realise that they will always be treated as second class aviators we can't blame them when they vote with their feet. Well I have been involved in gliding for some fourteen years now, with a reasonably sized club and I am yet to encounter any pilot being too worried about being classed as second class aviator”. puts hand up Hi, I’m Mark. I’m another 14 year glider pilot, just like you. In addition to a GPC with an L2 instructor rating and a D1109 airworthiness cert, I also have an RAAus pilot certificate, and a CASA PPL(A). During my time in the GFA system, I’ve spent 3 years as a club CFI. I know all about GFA’s attitude towards personal responsibility. I’m yet to encounter *any* other form of aviation in any other jurisdiction where a trained pilot is not considered responsible for their own actions; or where an instructor is expected to assume some kind of poorly defined “responsibility” for what other trained pilots do, simply by virtue of being present at the time of their launch. … except the military, which is, I believe, where the GFA’s system and attitude originates. There was a time when I didn’t care about any of this: I was a GFA member, a glider pilot, and that’s simply the system, take it or leave it. So I totally understand why it doesn’t matter to some (most) glider pilots. But after exposure to the CASA and RAAus systems, my attitude has changed. The Commonwealth of Australia considers me competent to make and be responsible for all my own decisions relating to my operations and the airworthiness of my aircraft. The GFA does not. That paternalism grates. At each membership renewal since I gained my PPL, I’ve thought a little bit harder about whether I’m prepared to accept the GFA’s increasing tendency to centralize, to oversee, to diminish the responsibility that each pilot has to maintain their own safety. I’ve also thought about the responsibility of instructing, and “taking charge” of an operation that can only be influenced, not controlled, and whether that’s something I want to expose myself to. I’m also increasingly of the view that some of that philosophy reduces safety. There are so many things that GFA pilots can convince themselves they never need to worry about because someone else will second-guess the decision for them. My membership is currently overdue. I’m still thinking. Last weekend I was going to fly my RV out to a gliding club to try them on for size, to have an annual check and see if we we’re a good fit for each other, and see if there are any openings in that I might be able to contribute to. I would have renewed my membership to make that happen, but I had a bad night’s sleep on Saturday night and didn’t assess myself as passing an IMSAFE check for that kind of operation, so I stayed home instead. Now I have some more work travel coming up and it’ll probably be at least a month before I get another opportunity, so maybe I’ll keep thinking about whether GFA’s philosophy is compatible with me until October or November. Here’s something that’s important, which I think is frequently lost: Aviation is a technical discipline, but it has a strong emotional dimension as well. We fly because we get some kind of high out of it: We *love* it, otherwise we wouldn’t put ourselves through the time and money and setbacks and heartache needed to enjoy it. Different people find that emotional response in different ways. For some people, it’s about flying higher or further or faster or longer than anyone else. For those people, the philosophy of the GFA is utterly irrelevant: As long as they can get into a glider, who cares, right? These are the people the GFA serves the best, in my opinion. For others, emotional reward comes from making contributions. We’re the people who instruct or serve on committees or get airworthiness credentials. For us, the philosophy of the GFA *does* matter, a bit, because it defines the framework those contributions are made in: It’s unlikely, for instance
Re: [Aus-soaring] New CASA board
Could not agree more Peter. Congratulation to Anita. Cheers Paul On Aug 29, 2014 7:29 PM, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: That sounds like fantastic news to me. We have someone on the Board that likes gliding! Also someone who wants to encourage sport aviation, not restrict it. This could be a new beginning. On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: OMG *From:* Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2014 4:02 PM *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] New CASA board *Congratulations, Anita – your hard work has paid off!* *According to this news clip recreational aviation has a strong voice now!!! * *Aviation Business* Doug Nancarrow has revealed the names of the last three CASA board members. They are Gliding Federation president Anita Taylor, AMDA board chairman and RAAA board member Ian Smith, and former Qantas engineering and regional airline general manager David Cox, now head of Sydney Uni engineering. Combined with Jeff Boyd, the new-look board boasts a wealth of aviation and managerial experience that should preside over a much improved CASA. Put it this way: if they can't do it then it can't be done, and general aviation in Australia will be a plaque on a plinth in 20 years. Kind regards to all Bernard -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Water Landing
Hmmm, it is also said that the gear should be deployed. I understand this is the recommended procedure in Finland. This glider certainly did not lower his gear. Cheers Paul On 29 August 2014 08:16, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hi Alan Precisely! A major reason for posting this link was to through doubt on the claim that gliders always submarine on water landings. Kind regards to all Bernard *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Alan Wilson *Sent:* Friday, 29 August 2014 7:17 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Water Landing Thanks Bernard, I hope we don't see a spate of such landings now. But to me it was useful because a fear for all would be the nose digging in leaving the cockpit under water. Options were oft discussed in Finland in 1976. I think it also implies such landings should be done with the undercarriage up. Not an option to things like Pipers and Cessna's. Perhaps options are discussed in manuals or some study somewhere. Thanks and I hope I never have to get that wet. Alan Wilson Canberra Sent from my iPad On 29 Aug 2014, at 7:36, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hello all It appears to me that this glider pilot either left his field selection a little late or he wanted to imitate Captain Sullenberger! In any case, it was well done! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcsrDxOI8ccfeature=youtube_gdata_player Kind regards to all Bernard ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Water Landing
On 29 August 2014 08:58, Grant Davies gr...@davies.id.au wrote: Oh I see his problem, he forgot to put the wheel down. Your point being? Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Did it again
Sorry Garry and perhaps others The photos were intended for Denis. I do need to be more careful. So on the bad side I have spammed more inboxes. On the good side I got few more offers to buy. Apologies to all Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm
Hi Denis Not sure what I can say about it, it is a flarm with display, I am going up to instruct tomorrow, so I can take a picture. It is fully functional and currently in use. Not so sure about the price, new unit is $911.75. So I guess $350 may seem reasonable. Cheers Paul On Aug 23, 2014 8:50 PM, dennis hipperson dennishipper...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Paul, How much are you after for it. Tell me about it. Dennis On 23/08/14 7:46 PM, Paul Bart wrote: Hi Denis I have an OZ Flarm for sale Cheers Paul On Aug 23, 2014 6:11 PM, dennis hipperson dennishipper...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all am looking for a second hand flarm any for sale. Regards, Dennis ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm
Yes you are correct Gary, I did not think about it. Our (DDSC) list replies to sender only. So the mistake is entirely mine. Cheers Paypul On Aug 23, 2014 10:25 PM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Guys, There is no doubt that the Aus-soaring site is an appropriate and great place to buy and sell gliding related items for forum members. HOWEVER once you have made initial contact, *PLEASE *conduct the rest of your negotiations offline. I suggest that the initial postee, might put a brief note on the site as to the outcome of his/her post, if the outcome is positive. Gary PS I have an ASW 20BL supership for sale. I need to reduce my fleet holding. Contact me off line, or give me a call me on 03 5352 4938 if this is the ship you need. *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul Bart *Sent:* Saturday, 23 August 2014 7:47 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm Hi Denis I have an OZ Flarm for sale Cheers Paul On Aug 23, 2014 6:11 PM, dennis hipperson dennishipper...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all am looking for a second hand flarm any for sale. Regards, Dennis ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
Well it depends on from where. Seems very cheap from China, Hong Kong etc. Not so bad from UK. Makes you wonder what is going on. Cheers Paul : ..snip.. Shipping has become very expensive Dennis It sure has, both into and out of Australia. Mike *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] baleout-lots more pics
Not sure about the spar, but in the article he was quoted as saying that he simply fell out when he jettisoned the canopy and undone his harness as the glider was upside down. Cheers Paul On 2 August 2014 21:52, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: Well he either was thrown out of the cockpit or he did a brilliant jump for his age! I am ordering a ballistic parachute for my next glider. Pull the red handle and just wait for the gentle thump of landing. By the way. Any comments from the structural people amongst us as to why the wing spar broke off at the base? Peter Champness On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Phillip Brown bronp...@gmail.com wrote: You were my first thought Phil when I saw them. On 2 August 2014 18:11, Philip Eldridge p...@rpi.net.au wrote: Well, that brings back some horrible memories. My blood ran cold when I looked at those pics. Phil Eldridge ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- Phil ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Position Info
Hi DMcD Would you mind expanding on the alternatives please? Cheers Paul On 5 June 2014 13:03, DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com wrote: It's free, permits multiple device types (SPOT, InReach etc), Interesting. I don't plan to use Spot next season. There are better alternatives. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ventus 3.
On 14 May 2014 08:31, Mark Fisher m...@spe.com.au wrote: How about Tedius Is it the name for the glider or this thread? Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Android devices
I have one of the early examples of the Androport and my experience was less than satisfactory. I would not mind talking to someone with a successful integration of the serial streams. My equipment: B800, Flarm (19200 baud), Androport, Nexus 7 Cheers Paul On 27 February 2014 08:35, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: Those wanting to use Android devices with serial inputs can buy an Androport from GliderTools www.glidertools.com Two RS232 inputs to Android. I have been told it all works with a B500 and Flarm so should be no problem with any of our data output varios. Saves messing around with building IOIO boards etc. In nice shielded box. Mike *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Android devices
Hi Mike No complaint, just a statement of a fact. My point was that it was not at all straight forward, for me anyway, the documentation for Androport is / was wrong in the way it identifies the match between ports and cable pairs. So at present I have a feed from B800 to the Nexus 7 running the latest version of XCSoar. Anyway all documented here http://forum.xcsoar.org/viewtopic.php?f=3t=1433with diagrams and screenshots as I was sorting it out. I notice that Vladimir now responded and said that he corrected the manuals on his website. However, the biggest problem for me was that I got some very weird wind reading displayed on the XSsoar. At that point I have reverted to the internal GPS engine to sort it out later, but I did not get back to it yet. Cheers Paul On 27 February 2014 12:41, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: Paul, That is a vague complaint. What exactly didn't happen? Do you have a manual you can send me? Did you try it with another Android device? Mike At 09:17 AM 27/02/2014, you wrote: I have one of the early examples of the Androport and my experience was less than satisfactory. I would not mind talking to someone with a successful integration of the serial streams. My equipment: B800, Flarm (19200 baud), Androport, Nexus 7 Cheers Paul On 27 February 2014 08:35, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Those wanting to use Android devices with serial inputs can buy an Androport from GliderTools www.glidertools.com Two RS232 inputs to Android. I have been told it all works with a B500 and Flarm so should be no problem with any of our data output varios. Saves messing around with building IOIO boards etc. In nice shielded box. Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Android devices
Hi Mike I could not agree more regarding the pinout standard. However the confusion was not mine, I simply followed the instruction on the glidertool website, which was incorrect at that time. According to Jaromir's latest post on the XCSoar forums, the website has been fixed now. You may recall that I have contacted you to make sure about the B800 pinout, which was correct. I think the winds on the B800 are in a broad agreement with the XCSoar, emphasis on the broad. That is why I wanted to integrate the B800 output in to the XCSoar, so that I have actual airspeed. I am sure I will get back to it and hopefully sort it. Cheers Paul On 27 February 2014 14:32, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: It wasn't a brilliant decision by the IGC to reverse the pin numbering on RJ connectors. I'm sure you aren't the only person that has been confused. As ever connecting devices together by serial or USB (actually it is still a serial connection) requires the correct wires going to the correct pins. Can't help the wind in XCSoar. What does the wind on the B800 say? Mike At 12:56 PM 27/02/2014, you wrote: Hi Mike No complaint, just a statement of a fact. My point was that it was not at all straight forward, for me anyway, the documentation for Androport is / was wrong in the way it identifies the match between ports and cable pairs. So at present I have a feed from B800 to the Nexus 7 running the latest version of XCSoar. Anyway all documented here http://forum.xcsoar.org/viewtopic.php?f=3t=1433 with diagrams and screenshots as I was sorting it out. I notice that Vladimir now responded and said that he corrected the manuals on his website. However, the biggest problem for me was that I got some very weird wind reading displayed on the XSsoar. At that point I have reverted to the internal GPS engine to sort it out later, but I did not get back to it yet. Cheers Paul On 27 February 2014 12:41, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Paul, That is a vague complaint. What exactly didn't happen? Do you have a manual you can send me? Did you try it with another Android device? Mike At 09:17 AM 27/02/2014, you wrote: I have one of the early examples of the Androport and my experience was less than satisfactory. I would not mind talking to someone with a successful integration of the serial streams. My equipment: B800, Flarm (19200 baud), Androport, Nexus 7 Cheers Paul On 27 February 2014 08:35, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Those wanting to use Android devices with serial inputs can buy an Androport from GliderTools www.glidertools.com Two RS232 inputs to Android. I have been told it all works with a B500 and Flarm so should be no problem with any of our data output varios. Saves messing around with building IOIO boards etc. In nice shielded box. Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check
Re: [Aus-soaring] Simultaneous Record Claims
They would not have declared the same task and flown together would they? However, if you are flying as a pair, is it still a record (sorry Allan :))? Cheers Paul On 13 February 2014 07:10, Peter (PCS3) p...@internode.on.net wrote: Now that must be a record: two simultaneous claims on the same day in the same model of glider with the exactly the same location, speeds and distance What are the chances of that? !! PeterS On 12/02/2014 9:47 AM, Pam wrote: GFA has received the following record claims for the Australian National Standard Class 750km triangle speed record: Category: General Class: Standard Type of record: 750km triangle speed Location: West Wyalong Performance: 134.01 kph Pilot: Matt gage Glider: LS8/15m Date: 8/2/2014 Category: General Sub-class Standard Type of record : Speed over a 750km triangle Course/location : West Wyalong Aerodrome, NSW ( Australia ) - TP1`- Conargo and return Performance : 134.01 km/hr Pilot : Allan Barnes Glider : LS8/15mRegistration: VH-NSZ Date : 08 Feb 2014 ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Simultaneous Record Claims
Hi Wombat Those were my thoughts, but the question still remains, is the flight unassisted, given that the whole point of pair flying is to go faster. I have no axe to grind, I am just interested. Cheers Paul On 13 February 2014 09:09, Mike Cleaver wom...@netspeed.com.au wrote: The flight was a pairs-flying exercise and they started and finished wingtip to wingtip to ensure the times were the same to the second! Wombat On 13/02/2014 8:10 AM, Peter (PCS3) wrote: Now that must be a record: two simultaneous claims on the same day in the same model of glider with the exactly the same location, speeds and distance What are the chances of that? !! PeterS On 12/02/2014 9:47 AM, Pam wrote: GFA has received the following record claims for the Australian National Standard Class 750km triangle speed record: Category: General Class: Standard Type of record: 750km triangle speed Location: West Wyalong Performance: 134.01 kph Pilot: Matt gage Glider: LS8/15m Date: 8/2/2014 Category: General Sub-class Standard Type of record : Speed over a 750km triangle Course/location : West Wyalong Aerodrome, NSW ( Australia ) - TP1`- Conargo and return Performance : 134.01 km/hr Pilot : Allan Barnes Glider : LS8/15mRegistration: VH-NSZ Date : 08 Feb 2014 ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Simultaneous Record Claims
Thanks Matt, both for the explanation and the description of the flight. I know Allan well, he flew at DDSC, so I follow his exploits. Cheers Paul On Feb 13, 2014 1:11 PM, Matt Gage m...@knightschallenge.com wrote: Unlike Australian comps, there is nothing in the sporting code (which governs records) that suggests the flights can't be done pair flying, or even receiving weather or condition information from multiple locations to assist decision making. Additionally, I believe that Pam actually contacted the IGC for clarification on this before posting the notification. For those that like to know where the task was, TP1 was an arbitrary GPS point midway between Ivanhoe and Balranald - there's nothing there, so nothing to name it after ! Wombat is correct in that we were using this flight as a training exercise for the worlds, this was actually the 2nd record attempt in the week we spent together - we fell well short of Peter Temple's new 750k o/r record a few days earlier. We were wingtip to wingtip at both the start and finish, although for much of the flight, this wasn't the case as we repeatedly had one then the other get separated vertically and the had to work hard to pull the low one back up without slowing the high one - very good training for us. The intention was to try and do this jointly, although, if one of us had been clearly ahead at the finish, they were not going to wait ! For others thinking of doing the same, you are not going to be able to pair fly effectively without a lot of practice, equivalent gliders at the same wing loading and a similar flying style - we had this, and had almost no disagreement over thermal strengths to use, height bands, speed to fly, tracks in both the blue and with Cu, etc. Over the week, we flew for over 30 hours together over about 3,500 km. This particular flight was on the last day. Finally, we need to apologise to everyone affected by the huge amount of radio traffic between us last week Matt On 13 Feb 2014, at 13:12 , Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Wombat Those were my thoughts, but the question still remains, is the flight unassisted, given that the whole point of pair flying is to go faster. I have no axe to grind, I am just interested. Cheers Paul On 13 February 2014 09:09, Mike Cleaver wom...@netspeed.com.au wrote: The flight was a pairs-flying exercise and they started and finished wingtip to wingtip to ensure the times were the same to the second! Wombat On 13/02/2014 8:10 AM, Peter (PCS3) wrote: Now that must be a record: two simultaneous claims on the same day in the same model of glider with the exactly the same location, speeds and distance What are the chances of that? !! PeterS On 12/02/2014 9:47 AM, Pam wrote: GFA has received the following record claims for the Australian National Standard Class 750km triangle speed record: Category: General Class: Standard Type of record: 750km triangle speed Location: West Wyalong Performance: 134.01 kph Pilot: Matt gage Glider: LS8/15m Date: 8/2/2014 Category: General Sub-class Standard Type of record : Speed over a 750km triangle Course/location : West Wyalong Aerodrome, NSW ( Australia ) - TP1`- Conargo and return Performance : 134.01 km/hr Pilot : Allan Barnes Glider : LS8/15mRegistration: VH-NSZ Date : 08 Feb 2014 ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Outlandings the Press
On 12 January 2014 08:10, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.comwrote: It would be good if you could go to go to the pub while the GFA derigged for you too. [image: Open-mouthed smile] I thought that happens already, when you are retrieved by fellow glider pilots, perhaps without the pub bit though :) Cheers Paul wlEmoticon-openmouthedsmile[1].png___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] M18 Dromader
Or one of these perhaps, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zl%C3%ADn_Z_37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHUIYIStvpE Cheers Paul On 26 October 2013 08:42, john.mcfarlane john.mcfarl...@mcfarlane.net.auwrote: Operationally I think you may find it would be more suitable than the Radial version – much lighter aircraft, hence speeds can come down a bit over original For you weight and balance types compare the Radial Version against a turbine version for engine placement, like conversions that also appear the same are the Air Tractors (AT 401 vs AT 402). The prop wash maybe a little challenging to navigate through ** ** Now economics of operation may be a small issue: *at full power (Approx. 600HP more than your standard Pawnee) fuel flow is somewhere around 65Gals/Hr, and there not too efficient at very low HP ratings(say 260 Hp) – which probably wouldn’t be enough for a safe take-off (may not be able too)– but would be acceptable to the Glider *Overhauls, only 3500 TBO in Ag like operations (Typically) cost approx. 90-350K ** ** In high density alt (Hot days) the only replacement for a Pawnee will be another Pawnee ** ** If you want to bankrupt your club/operation convince them to buy a Turbine(Especially Western ones – prices so much steeper) ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *John Parncutt *Sent:* Friday, 25 October 2013 9:11 PM *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] M18 Dromader ** ** I think you will find that this particular aircraft was the turbine (prop jet) version, definitely not suitable for glider towing! ** ** John Parncutt ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.netaus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ian Mc Phee *Sent:* Friday, 25 October 2013 1:03 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] M18 Dromader ** ** Pawnee style still seems the best. Years ago we fitted a release to Peter Middlebrooks Agwagon for a gliding cpmp and with extra power 300hp would go up even better but it was far worse than Pawnee for getting down. There was far less drag on Agwagon thus it would not slow down and the constant speed prop did not help. Michaels etug originally had 260HP and was fitted with constant speed prop but a friend of mine just could not get it down as the then Pawnee 235 we had at Keepit. Also John Michell had a 260hp ? Agwagon and again it was not a success for glider towing.. ** ** So Pawnee style is the way to go. By the way a guy at Dalby (only remember his name as Smoky) bought a cheap pawnee for think 2 years ago for about $24000. He was going to put a LS1 engine it but he is no longer gliding and notice it is again for sale (no price). If somebody wants a project think it will go for $20K about and may be worth considering. ** ** Recently saw Bob Wards project on the PIK27 tow plane but is is not a club project in my opinion. ** ** Ian McPhee ** ** . ; ** ** On 25 October 2013 10:59, Nelson Handcock nelson.handc...@gmail.com wrote: Are many of these used as tugs? http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/safety-fears-flagged-earlier-over-make-of-plane-in-death-crash-20131024-2w4ew.html Thanks Regards, Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ** ** ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Club vario-continued
Well when you made the statement you did not indicate that it was a result of consumer feedback, if indeed users of a free product can be classified as consumers, you have simply made a statement that by any measure was disparaging of XCSoar. Anyway, I am yet to find the any problems with XCSoar, and so are many others, given the posts here. Paul On Oct 18, 2013 9:21 PM, Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Paul, sorry not true; In my experience when members are asked why they use XCSoar the majority will tell you because it's free - if honest consumer feedback is seen to be a put down that's disappointing. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 On 19/10/2013, at 9:51, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: The biggest attraction of XCSoar is its free. Sorry Stuart, but that is an unnecessary put down for many people who developed XCSoar. I use Oudie withSeeYou (fitted to a club glider) and I use XCSoar. I can assure you that the relatively low cost of SeeYou (if you consider the annual cost of maintaining a glider) would not deter me from using it. I use XCSoar because I prefer it. Cheers Paul On 19 October 2013 06:38, Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.auwrote: Alan, I'll disagree about the pre flight niggles. Mine is a Club Class aircraft, a B500 and an (using SeeZyou) set up with aircraft and location profiles; apart from entering the task of the day it's plug and play - and thats what most club pilots want. The biggest attraction of XCSoar is its free. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 On 19/10/2013, at 7:05, Alan Wilson a...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I would like to say XCSoar is great. If you own a $100k glider then perhaps several more thousand on cockpit instruments is your fancy. In my experience they have most of the same niggles: they all need plenty of pre flight work. I fly whatever the club offers at club rates so the club benefits. I carry a $50 Chinese GPS velcro'd to my Jeans. It is now powered by a $50 Kogan USB 6600 mah battery. Sometimes I can fit it on a RAM mount powered by a cigarette lighter fitting in some club gliders. XCSoar provides me with heaps of information: wind velocity after 3 orbits, long snail trail, last thermal sources, in sector at turn points, very accurate final glides, safety heights.. And a multitude of other information. The red/green below/about glide marker on the LHS keeps me safe when local soaring etc. you can see meant traces on the OLC. Simple, effective, cheap and *mine* in any glider. XCSoar guys, many thanks, please keep it up and open source. Ta... Alan Wilson Canberra for the last 40 years. Sent from my iPad.. So I know about proprietary software. On 18 Oct 2013, at 22:46, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to support Scott's position. I have run XCSoar on many devices HP 318, Dell Streak, lately on Nexus 7 and Nexus 4., never a problem. On Android even the update take care of themselves. A fantastic project. Cheers Paul On 18 October 2013 16:39, Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au wrote: On 18/10/2013, at 5:27 PM, Mark Fisher wrote: When you run XCSoar you accept the niggles of open source. Food for thought. I really have no comment on how XCSoar runs on the Oudie, never seen or done it. But the comment is about out of line for open source. What phone do you use? Is Android more niggly than iOS? Maybe. What about Chrome vs IE? Open Office vs Office? Firefox? List could go on for a few pages in 8 point font. Quality of projects, installation, documentation and usability is not based on whether it is open source or not. Of course there is a lot more open source software, so you get more of all types :-) Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Club vario-continued
I would like to support Scott's position. I have run XCSoar on many devices HP 318, Dell Streak, lately on Nexus 7 and Nexus 4., never a problem. On Android even the update take care of themselves. A fantastic project. Cheers Paul On 18 October 2013 16:39, Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au wrote: On 18/10/2013, at 5:27 PM, Mark Fisher wrote: When you run XCSoar you accept the niggles of open source. Food for thought. I really have no comment on how XCSoar runs on the Oudie, never seen or done it. But the comment is about out of line for open source. What phone do you use? Is Android more niggly than iOS? Maybe. What about Chrome vs IE? Open Office vs Office? Firefox? List could go on for a few pages in 8 point font. Quality of projects, installation, documentation and usability is not based on whether it is open source or not. Of course there is a lot more open source software, so you get more of all types :-) Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Club vario-continued
The biggest attraction of XCSoar is its free. Sorry Stuart, but that is an unnecessary put down for many people who developed XCSoar. I use Oudie withSeeYou (fitted to a club glider) and I use XCSoar. I can assure you that the relatively low cost of SeeYou (if you consider the annual cost of maintaining a glider) would not deter me from using it. I use XCSoar because I prefer it. Cheers Paul On 19 October 2013 06:38, Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.auwrote: Alan, I'll disagree about the pre flight niggles. Mine is a Club Class aircraft, a B500 and an (using SeeZyou) set up with aircraft and location profiles; apart from entering the task of the day it's plug and play - and thats what most club pilots want. The biggest attraction of XCSoar is its free. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 On 19/10/2013, at 7:05, Alan Wilson a...@ozemail.com.au wrote: I would like to say XCSoar is great. If you own a $100k glider then perhaps several more thousand on cockpit instruments is your fancy. In my experience they have most of the same niggles: they all need plenty of pre flight work. I fly whatever the club offers at club rates so the club benefits. I carry a $50 Chinese GPS velcro'd to my Jeans. It is now powered by a $50 Kogan USB 6600 mah battery. Sometimes I can fit it on a RAM mount powered by a cigarette lighter fitting in some club gliders. XCSoar provides me with heaps of information: wind velocity after 3 orbits, long snail trail, last thermal sources, in sector at turn points, very accurate final glides, safety heights.. And a multitude of other information. The red/green below/about glide marker on the LHS keeps me safe when local soaring etc. you can see meant traces on the OLC. Simple, effective, cheap and *mine* in any glider. XCSoar guys, many thanks, please keep it up and open source. Ta... Alan Wilson Canberra for the last 40 years. Sent from my iPad.. So I know about proprietary software. On 18 Oct 2013, at 22:46, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to support Scott's position. I have run XCSoar on many devices HP 318, Dell Streak, lately on Nexus 7 and Nexus 4., never a problem. On Android even the update take care of themselves. A fantastic project. Cheers Paul On 18 October 2013 16:39, Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au wrote: On 18/10/2013, at 5:27 PM, Mark Fisher wrote: When you run XCSoar you accept the niggles of open source. Food for thought. I really have no comment on how XCSoar runs on the Oudie, never seen or done it. But the comment is about out of line for open source. What phone do you use? Is Android more niggly than iOS? Maybe. What about Chrome vs IE? Open Office vs Office? Firefox? List could go on for a few pages in 8 point font. Quality of projects, installation, documentation and usability is not based on whether it is open source or not. Of course there is a lot more open source software, so you get more of all types :-) Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] bohli compass for sale
Not sure that there are any, it is required to be installed, not consulted:-) Cheers Paul On Sep 25, 2013 12:05 PM, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: That prompts a discussion re the legalities. I’m vaguely aware, so would like to hear more. Chris *From:* Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com *Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2013 7:43 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] bohli compass for sale Compasses? Oh yes, I remember looking at one once in a glider. About early 1993 when we just had GPS and on that leg the turnpoint was bearing 145 degrees or so from where I was. There wasn't a lot of wind so I I looked at the compass to see that it also said 145 when the nose was pointed at the turnpoint. Amazing! They don't even bother to swing these things in bugsmashers nowadays. Without a swing (calibration) they mean little. Mike At 06:18 PM 25/09/2013, you wrote: I could be interested. Peter Champness On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Grietje Wansink mailto:grietje.wans...@gmail.com grietje.wans...@gmail.com wrote: I have two bohli compass' for sale. Grietje ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ** ***Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784** **overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784** **: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 120, Issue 40
Could not agree more Casey. It would seem to me that GFA is basically us - so if we do not like something, try to politely change it. Cheers Paul Bart On Sep 13, 2013 1:36 PM, Casey Jay Lewis cj...@me.com wrote: Ok, I've sat by and watched the sense of entitlement and GFA bashing long enough. As Tim playfully pointed out, it's the F in GFA. The state bodies are entitled to set enforce their own rules. Would national harmonization be nice? Sure! If it was me, I'd write stating present experience, outlining equivalence where applicable and seek a dispensation before starting a power whinge. On rest: A professional pilot conducting a 16hr duty is required to spend hours of that SLEEPING. He is also in a multi-crew, climate controlled environment with autopilots (plural). Lets not compare apples with potatoes. Finally, after 20+ years in aviation I've met my share of selfless enablers, dedicating disproportionate amounts of time and effort to other pilots. Having never met me, Tim was professional, warm welcoming. He somehow found time to help me achieve my goals in between running courses, coaching students and his own personal flying. If he and those like him are the people we are attacking them our sport is rooted. If there needs to be a whipping boy in this sport, let it be CASA! ;) Brgds, Casey. iPhone Transmission On 13 Sep, 2013, at 18:23, aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.netwrote: Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications (Tim Shirley) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 20:22:57 +1000 From: Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 016e01ceb06b$37731040$a65930c0$@internode.on.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I?ll be at Waikerie as a competitor. Cheers Tim Tra dire e fare c?? mezzo il mare From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Catherine Conway Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013 20:12 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications Well said Tim I certainly appreciate your efforts and have seen just how much you and Joy have contributed so that I can enjoy myself. Thank you. Sincerely. I'd love to see you get the opportunity to fly a bit more yourself instead of working for the enjoyment of all of us. Cath Sent from my iPhone On 13/09/2013, at 7:35 PM, Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net wrote: Hmm, What I said, is that our insurers require a Competitors licence as a qualification for entry, in order to indemnify contest officials against the consequences of a claim arising from incidents at that contest. Is anyone suggesting that there should be NO insurance for contest officials? This isn?t a rule of the competition. It is there to ensure that there will actually be some officials willing to run the competition! To the best of my knowledge, the issue of a Competition Licence does not require anything beyond the CFI?s signature to say that in his or her opinion, the applicant is competent to hold the licence. There is nothing there about any specific qualification, though clearly a pilot would need a X/C rating to enter a competition. Please try to distinguish between the GFA and an Insurance company ? they are not quite the same thing. And one thing more. I have yet to be paid to officiate at any gliding contest. The best I have managed is some help with expenses or some accommodation. I?ve been an official at more gliding competitions than I can remember or count. But if you guys are not willing to do at least something to help with the risks of litigation, then count me out in the future. You don?t deserve my or anyone elses help. I can handle grumpy pilots. I can deal with dusty airfields and 45C. I can make scoring systems work. I can even get around silly rulemakers. But I have serious difficulties getting my enthusiasm back when people just take it for granted that I?ll
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: klaus modified
Hi Ian I may be slow, but I am having dificult in interpreting Klauses comments regarding the vario. In particuler *The faster one flies, the more down (up to -5m/s) is the needle.* and *In flight the digital average number seem correct, same with thermal average and last turn. * Would not one expect them to be correct? Cheers Paul Cheers Paul On 7 September 2013 09:09, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: Enclosed below are comments by Klaus Keim in Germany after a May competition He first comments about varios and remember he is involved with Clear Nav so is coloured but he says as it comes and several of his vario suggestions have since been incorporated since May. I have reduced its size by 1/3 as he got a bit technical. His daughter it Katrin is a good pilot in her own right and flys in their ASH31. There then comments (again he says as it is) about the current bout of gliders at end so there is something for most.. There is a further comment from me at the end about other matters. Ian McPhee *Instrument impressions* *The word spreads now that the Clear Nav Vario behavior is far better as the one of LX and Butterfly, the LX with its old hardware. Pilots also like the audio tone a lot. So there is there is a good one!* *Comments to the CNv front: They all told me that the needle and front layout looks cooland cannot be better. The needle is most impressive – a professionally looking modern job.ADC separate: excellent idea to use 2 parts, front and ADC. 50% of my assemblies are placing the ADC away from the front. I will give two more loaners to interested pilots – after the Butterfly vario experience they are careful to buy another disappointment. Butterfly had to take most instruments back during comps. In flight the digital average number seem correct, same with thermal average and last turn. They all like this, and I did not expect such remarks and seems to be done better than the LX9000!* *The faster one flies, the more down (up to -5m/s) is the needle. The cruise numbers on the display seem ok. I changed the profile, all in netto, and the pointer sits at Zero on the ground which may be strange..* *Impression of gliders: * *The ARCUS performs well, but lots of quality problems, and too heavy.All 4 pilots flying he Quintus are highly disappointed with the glide performance, despite the high weight. Tassilo Bode (third in Uvalde) sold his at the end of the Hahnweide, frustrated.Schempp Hirth has endless problems with Lange delivering the inside wing for the Quintus.So they are having a severe quality crisis. AS built 60 ASH31's, and Katrin in our ASH31 took 250m off a parallel 60km final glide from Tassilo Bode in the Quintus. The best open class is the EB29 we know since 2 years.In 18m the ASG29 and JS1 (Cheetham) performs before the Ventus with few orders for SHK only.* *Klaus* * * * I firmly believe all the varios in the world are only as good as the TE probe being used. Recently especially older gliders I have seen heaps of issues with plumbing like old crap tubes, even loose tit on winter 0.45lit flask. All tubing must be perfect and old Altimeters should not be on the static line of plumbing. Next issue is partly blocked tubes. I do like silicon tube and I buy same from WA (do a search) and it is cheap. If using plastic tube then use 25mm of silicon over the 5mm plastic tube as it goes into instrument.* *With Clear Nav Vario (and Cambridge 302 for that matter) they really got the going from cruse to climb and vario immediately gives you perfect information. That is very important and am not sure brand X has got it as good but try for yourself or ask a few users of both. * *I recommend all cut a few holes in instrument cover just forward of the compass and cover with a bit of fly gauze as this lets out out a huge amount of heat. Heat is one of the biggest enemies of electronic instruments. I give full credit for this idea to Mike Borgelt.* *For those interested in Cambridge 302 there are negotiations going between Roy Ridgeway (the owner of the totally run down company) and Richard Kellerman but it may not be sorted out before Christmas I was told yesterday* *Ian McPhee* *0428847642 * ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Airshow Glider Accident Czech Republic
Some more interesting photos here http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=156691 Cheers Paul Cheers Paul On 2 August 2013 09:09, Terry Neumann tfneum...@internode.on.net wrote: Brief report here also: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=156691 This page contains a link to some pictures of the accident which are both puzzling and disturbing. Lots of questions could be asked about this unhappy event. tn On 1/08/2013 11:44 PM, Mal Bruce wrote: Airshow Glider Accident Below is a translation from the Aerokurier web page. It appears that a high-speed, low-altitude pass at an airshow in Volnov in the Czech Republic ended badly when the glider's wing touched the ground, causing it to rotate and crash into a row of parked aircraft - injuring one spectator. http://www.aerokurier.de/de/luftsport/segelflug/dreher-und-crash-beim-ueberflug.117498.htm Yes that’s a low altitude pass. OK AUD 05 unique rego in photo rear left. Mal ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: [igc-discuss] Winners - 17th FAI European Gliding Championships
Well it would be difficult for them not to win the two seater comp:-) Cheers Paul On Jul 22, 2013 10:19 PM, Adam Woolley go_soar...@hotmail.com wrote: Nice, Winning gliders all Schempp-Hirth too! Cirrus 81, Discus 2a, Arcus! Awesome flying by our Aussie entry, Matthew Scutter. A future WGC podium holder for sure, or at least he's going to give me a lot of grief over my next 50yrs of racing! Go Matty, rest up this week have a great JWGC coming up :) SeeYou, WPP On 22/07/2013, at 21:38, Pam Kurstjens p...@kurstjens.com wrote: Sport: Gliding Title: 17th FAI European Gliding Championships Type : Continental Date: 05.07 - 21.07.2013 Location: Ostrow Wielkopolski (Poland) Final Results : Club Class - Overall 1st: Roman Mracek CZE 2nd: Jakub BarszczPOL 3rd: Lukasz BlaszczykPOL Standard Class - Overall 1st: Sebastian Kawa POL 2nd: Lukasz WójcikPOL 3rd: Pawel WojciechowskiPOL 20 Metre Multi-seat Class - Overall 1st : Wolfgang Janowitsch - Andreas LutzAUS 2nd : Florian Theisinger - Thomas StarckGER 3rd : Pierre de Broqueville - Arnaud de BroquevilleBEL The full results can be found at the following address : http://www.egc2013.eu/results/ FAI congratulates the Winners and thanks the Organisers of the Championship. To unsubscribe from this list, click here: http://lists.fai.org/wws/auto_signoff/igc-discuss/pam%40kurstjens.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software
Missed the point entirely John. You do not need to go to North Korea, just join iTunes, pay forty percent percent more for content than other people do in other juristrictions just because they tell you to. And once you have acquired a lot of content, it is not easy to leave it behind. I am not against profit, gouging is another mater. Unlike you I had the misfortune to live in an oppressive communist regime, and hence I do not like absolute power. Cheers Paul On 11/03/2013 4:08 PM, John Parncutt jparn...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Oh yes Paul Apple is so evil, they and their affiliated companies, staff and customers around the globe live off their dirty profits just like Microsoft , Hewlett Packard etc, etc.. ** ** Grow up or go and live in Cuba or North Korea where I think the last perverted forms of communism still exist, there you will find truly evil systems, ** ** Perhaps we should now return to gliding matters? ** ** ** ** John Parncutt ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul Bart *Sent:* Monday, 11 March 2013 4:14 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software ** ** Not that I understand what the sentence starting with Cos means, but perhaps you should consider that there are even more important things than profit. ** ** In my opinion Apple is one of the most evil companies going round. Almost totally closed, once they have you in the ecosystem, you may find it almost impossible to leave. Last quarterly report shows revenue of about 54 billion with a net profit of about 13 billion. That is 25%. Not too many other companies achieve that. And with 140 billion in the bank, the company is probably totally immune from regulators. ** ** Cheers Paul ** ** On 11 March 2013 14:29, Matthew Gage m...@knightschallenge.com wrote:*** * ** ** On 11/03/2013, at 12:25 , Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Why screw around wasting your time with Apple OS? ** ** 'Cos it's enabled be to bill well over $16,000 per year more for the last 5 years than if I still used windows. Cheap is not always the most cost effective. Mike At 04:57 AM 11/03/2013, you wrote: SeeYou may run fairly well under Parallels or Crossover. Achieved inferior performance to a Pentium 3 laptop on what was a the time the top of the line Macbook Pro. The only native software I ended up using on OSX was Firefox. Twenty or so programs had to run via Parallels or Crossover, so the point seemed lost. Trying to get Java-based weather resources to run on a newer iMac is still problematic. An option like Mike suggested is likely best. Jim Sent from a $700 laptop which replaced The $2000 Paperweight. *From:* John Parncutt jparn...@bigpond.net.au *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software If you’ve got a Intel based Mac with OS X, you can load parallels software which allows you to run almost any Windows based program either full screen or in a window. Works well for me, and is great for those who want to upgrade to Mac but still keep using some of their old PC programs. John Parncutt *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.netaus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Graham Holland *Sent:* Sunday, 10 March 2013 8:47 PM *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software Are there any that work on Macs and record engine use? Seeyou, fly with CE, don't. Graham Graham Holland 27 Johnston Crescent Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia 02 9427 3282 grahamholl...@iinet.net.au ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ** ** ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software
John, I did not realized that reselling content that somebody else produced required great deal of RD. Nor did I realized that 25 % profit on revenue is necessary to keep Apple Inc afloat. I do realize however, that esentially no money paid by Australians for products on iTunes find it's way into a local economy. BTW, why do we have to return to gliding only after you had your say? cheers Paul On Monday, 11 March 2013, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 02:29 PM 11/03/2013, you wrote: On 11/03/2013, at 12:25 , Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Why screw around wasting your time with Apple OS? 'Cos it's enabled be to bill well over $16,000 per year more for the last 5 years than if I still used windows. Cheap is not always the most cost effective. I presume that the be in the above sentence should read me . Do you mean you are more productive or that the customers pay more for that fact that you do stuff on a mac? We're talking about running gliding software, not other uses for macs or there relatives. What is the market penetration of macs? 10 % or so? If you are going to write gliding software which is a relatively small market anyway you really don't want to do and support a mac version as well. Oz Runways chose the ipad platform for their GA planning and flight software and I can see why. There was a good number of ipads in use and by choosing to run their software on that they could support only one platform that was tightly specified. Smart move and minimises their support issues. Most gliding software predates the ipad and was originally written for Windows machines. Given the low cost of netbooks why not simply spend A$200 or so and buy one just for gliding stuff and going away from home? If you are going to run gliding software on some Windows emulator why the hell bother with the mac in the first place? I did say I thought Apple products were nicely built and they certainly look nice but my ASUS all-in-one PC running Win 7 looks nice too and far cheaper. I want a communications/general purpose PC not a fashion or interior decoration accessory. Nice to see the bait taken so easily. Stirring Apple fanbois is like shooting fish in a barrel. If you guys were really convinced you wouldn't be so sensitive. Reminds me of the global warmenists or the co2mmunists. If the evidence was so compelling they too wouldn't be so defensive. LOL. Mike -- Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software
Not that I understand what the sentence starting with Cos means, but perhaps you should consider that there are even more important things than profit. In my opinion Apple is one of the most evil companies going round. Almost totally closed, once they have you in the ecosystem, you may find it almost impossible to leave. Last quarterly report shows revenue of about 54 billion with a net profit of about 13 billion. That is 25%. Not too many other companies achieve that. And with 140 billion in the bank, the company is probably totally immune from regulators. Cheers Paul On 11 March 2013 14:29, Matthew Gage m...@knightschallenge.com wrote: On 11/03/2013, at 12:25 , Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Why screw around wasting your time with Apple OS? 'Cos it's enabled be to bill well over $16,000 per year more for the last 5 years than if I still used windows. Cheap is not always the most cost effective. Mike At 04:57 AM 11/03/2013, you wrote: SeeYou may run fairly well under Parallels or Crossover. Achieved inferior performance to a Pentium 3 laptop on what was a the time the top of the line Macbook Pro. The only native software I ended up using on OSX was Firefox. Twenty or so programs had to run via Parallels or Crossover, so the point seemed lost. Trying to get Java-based weather resources to run on a newer iMac is still problematic. An option like Mike suggested is likely best. Jim Sent from a $700 laptop which replaced The $2000 Paperweight. *From:* John Parncutt jparn...@bigpond.net.au *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software If you’ve got a Intel based Mac with OS X, you can load parallels software which allows you to run almost any Windows based program either full screen or in a window. Works well for me, and is great for those who want to upgrade to Mac but still keep using some of their old PC programs. John Parncutt *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.netaus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Graham Holland *Sent:* Sunday, 10 March 2013 8:47 PM *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Flight recorders/planning software Are there any that work on Macs and record engine use? Seeyou, fly with CE, don't. Graham Graham Holland 27 Johnston Crescent Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia 02 9427 3282 grahamholl...@iinet.net.au ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 Installation Update
I agree, I have now had several hours flying with the Nexus and is very good, great visibility in all conditions, fast response, and as Paul said, it is cheap. Cheers Paul B On 23 Oct 2012 15:47, Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au wrote: Hi Bernard, just get a Nexus 7, you can orientate it portrait or landscape and the picture takes care of itself. It really is good. And cheap. All the best, Paul. -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Future Aviation Sent: 23 October 2012 12:03 To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'; 'Bernie Baer' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 Installation Update Good morning Paul, hello all I'm also an XCSoar user and would like to find out whether the latest version is also available in portrait. Any information or feedback would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards Bernard -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2012 10:51 AM To: 'Bernie Baer'; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 Installation Update Thanks to all the people who responded to my appeal for help in integrating the Nexus 7 into my glider. The upshot is that I decided that the Nexus/XCSoar combo was sufficient in itself, and that to interface it with the Flarm was of minimal added value given that I already have a Digital Voice Synthesizer. By not interfacing I lose only the radar display and I can live with that. I therefore installed it so as to draw from the glider's power supply, with no further interfacing. Easy. I have now flown with it, and I must say the combination of Nexus 7 and XCSoar is brilliant. The display is very legible in bright sunlight, and the latest version of XCSoar is much improved on the version that I had in my Altair. It is wondrously user friendly and useful in its range of capabilities. I like it and I'll stay with it. I'm now seeking help because during this period my Windows XP updated itself, and now won't even see the Nexus, let alone allow files to be copied across to it or from it. At the same time it has changed so that it won't make a connection with or recognise the Nano LX data logger that I've bought from John Orton to replace my trusty old Zander, now obsolete. Can anyone assist? Thanks, Paul Mander ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 as cockpit touchscreen display
Yes, I have bought the nexus as well since my Dell Streak died. I think the Nexus is as bright as the Dell was and much faster. I only had one flight with it and it was fine with or without the terrain. Whilst I have initially thought it would be to big for the cockpit, it was fine in my glider. Cheers Paul On 11 Sep 2012 18:42, Tom Wilksch tom.wilk...@internode.on.net wrote: Hi All Have just purchased a Google Nexus 7, and am quite impressed with the neat but small sizing and its readability in the sun. I could read the screen when running XCsoar in direct sunlight. Admittedly that was with a white screen showing rather than any map (none were loaded). It also seems to find a GPS lock very quickly, much faster than my Galaxy S2. Just thought I’d mention it. May be a cheap option worth looking in to. Cheers Tom ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 as cockpit touchscreen display
Hi Mike External USB, but sadly no memory slot. Cheers Paul On 12 Sep 2012 05:55, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: At 03:55 AM 12/09/2012, you wrote: Yes, I have bought the nexus as well since my Dell Streak died. I think the Nexus is as bright as the Dell was and much faster. I only had one flight with it and it was fine with or without the terrain. Whilst I have initially thought it would be to big for the cockpit, it was fine in my glider. Cheers Paul Does it have an external USB/serial port Paul? Mike ** ** *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784** **overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784** **: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Logbook: Poor
Interestingly, GFA does ask on the annual registration for km flown. Than I guess there is only so much room in a small book Cheers Paul On 27 Aug 2012 17:29, Adam Woolley aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com wrote: G'day All, I recently purchased a new logbook from the GFA, with the goal of using it to log only my competition soaring flights. I just made my first entry, though upon making my second I realised it's lacking a couple key columns. Can you believe that it doesn't have the following..? NO Glider Registration; and NO Cross-Country kilometers flown column. I know not everyone is interested in Cross-Country, naturally - each to their own. Though I feel as though one of the major pushes of the GFA is to encourage XC and to see people staying within the sport. I find it hard to imagine that there isn't a spot for this in their official logbook, almost as to say - we don't recognise or care for it. SeeYou, WPP www.facebook.com/W3Racing ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another bad weekend
I agree with Paul, about the only value that it serves is to remind us that we should be careful, but I guess we all know that, right up to the point when we go and do something stupid, despite that knowledge. Cheers Paul On 6 August 2012 21:05, Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au wrote: I’m all for publicising other people’s misfortune if it provides food for thought, or insight into our own propensity to get into trouble, or can in some way help us to avoid similar misfortune. But short of this, is it not just an indulgence of prurient curiosity? ** ** -- *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Christopher McDonnell *Sent:* Monday, 6 August 2012 7:41 AM *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Another bad weekend ** ** http://www.metro.co.uk/news/907497-man-killed-in-forfar-glider-crash http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120805-44171.html ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ascencion Scattering
On 3 August 2012 11:07, Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.auwrote: I hear their prices are going up In smoke? Boom tish From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012 06:20 To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Ascencion Scattering Only in the US of A http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-business/ci_21213913/boulder-company-offers-heavenward-scattering-ashes ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC
True, but they may not choose to. I think the people supporting OLC simply want to see all the results in one place. Cheers Paul On 18 July 2012 00:52, Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com wrote: Hi; Nothing stops a pilot from uploading an IGC file to both OLC and SkyLines. On Fri, 13 Jul 2012, Pam Kurstjens wrote: Why would we need an alternative? I think there is great strength and interest having worldwide flights in one place. If you would like to see an alternative system, check out the BGA Ladder in the UK: http://www.bgaladder.co.uk and click on 'daily scores' for example. Yesterday, 39 flights in the UK were posted to this site, and only 5 of those were posted to OLC. People are regularly doing 750's and the rare 1000, which are incredible flights given the size of the island, the airspace, and the weather, yet we see few flights on the OLC so gliding in the UK goes largely unnoticed by the worldwide gliding community. Pam -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter F Bradshaw Sent: Monday, 2 July 2012 9:51 PM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC Hi; There is an alternative to the OLC at: http://skylines.xcsoar.org/ IGC files may be uploaded and scored here. In addition it is planned to implement a realtime tracking feature in conjunction with XCSoar (v6.4). Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: Fwd: FW: Safety Cushions
Hi Scott Could you please expand on and install it properly? I have the confor foam, but it is basically a cushion, what else is there to be done? Cheers Paul On 12 July 2012 10:13, Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au wrote: Great stuff ! One small word of warning. Get the real deal, and install it properly. I have seen personal gliders with basically a cushion, and that actually increases risk instead of decreases. Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: Fwd: FW: Safety Cushions
Thanks Scott Cheers Paul On 12 July 2012 10:31, Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au wrote: On 12/07/2012, at 10:20 AM, Paul Bart wrote: Hi Scott Could you please expand on and install it properly? I have the confor foam, but it is basically a cushion, what else is there to be done? Sorry. Loose language, I should have been more clear. In one case I noticed high density foam put on top of a softer substance - where I believe (no expertise, please read the experts advice) that it should be between you and the hard part of the glider - so it is absorbing impact. Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Argentinian Worlds
So who was genius that awarded the WC to Argentina? Cheers Paul On 1 July 2012 16:44, Adam Woolley aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com wrote: I spoke with a Brit in 2010 after the SK worlds, he travels to Argentina every year for a gliding holiday - Every time he said was an expensive exercise. Once he said that he went to the extent of getting an empty Argentinian registered trailer, with an Argentinian driver car to drive North, where he would put his glider in, it'd be driven back South. This guy then flew there, hoping for delivery. Sadly, the border corruption was still there, he was forced to pay up like every other time. He went on to say that they'd just make up 'official' documents on the spot that needed to be filled in, with the appropriate paper bag with cash handed in under the table - otherwise, the process didn't progress. He put it in his budget, crazy stuff! He predicted in 2010 that it'll be a small field, as 1/2 gliders that were planned to be imported wouldn't make their arrival until mid-comp (through no fault of their own) the PW5 class wouldn't be big enough (min 10?) to even qualify it as a valid comp. Therefor no WC even declared. Let's hope he was B.S.ing me.. Cheers, WPP On 2012-07-01 06:26:30 + Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com wrote: Hi; Has anybody investigated the possibility of landing the aircraft in Brazil or Uruguay and on shipping to Argentina - or even just driving it across? On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, Tim Shirley wrote: Hi Ron, As I understand it there have been significant problems with the costs and bureaucratic difficulties of getting gliders into the country. Apparently there are very few modern gliders available locally. I believe that Allan will now be flying in the World Class as it is possible for him to hire a PW5 in Argentina. Tobi Geiger, Craig Collings and Mike Durrant were in the original team with Allan - Mike has withdrawn because of the costs but I assume that Tobi and Craig are still attending. Both are in Club Class. This has not only affected Australia, there are many others around the world who are facing this problem. It may be a fairly small event. Untitled Document Cheers /Tim/ /tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/ On 30/06/2012 13:21, Ron Sanders wrote: ONLY Alan?? On 29 June 2012 20:04, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com mailto:mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: Think Allan Barnes will be there. Ian M On Jun 29, 2012 9:07 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com mailto:resand...@gmail.com wrote: I was just wondering if Australia has any pilots at all attending the Argentinian Worlds in January 2013? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Argentinian Worlds
So, as Tim has intimated, these are the reasons why Allan has changed classes and will now be flying World Class - I hope; albeit at a huge disadvantage to the rest of the field, given his inexperience in a PW 5. Hmmm, the fact that he did not have too much time in LS8 does not seems to be hurting him too much in the US right now :). Cheers Paul On 30 June 2012 20:32, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: ** Hi Ron, Have you made it to WA yet? Tut, tut, tut. Graft and corruption in Argentina; how can you possibly say that? In this case, I think that what you really meant to say was that a certain party has been granted a special franchise to handle the customs arrangements. I am sure you understand how this system works. Any pilot is quite free to use somebody else, but do keep in mind that if said pilot chooses the alternate route Nothing can be guaranteed. I will leave it to your imagination to suppose which of the many dire possibilities that can happen, WILL actually happen. Do keep in mind too, that importing the glider is regarded as one exercise, and exporting the (same) glider is regarded as a totally different exercise - so (just for a start), read pay double. A very level playing field (for all but the Argentinean competitors): As long as you are a millionaire pilot and can pay on demand without hurting too much, or fully funded by your country regardless of cost, you will not have a problem! I think that Tim will prove right on the numbers. I fell really sorry for Mike Durrant. He told me recently, that the true cost to be competitive in *Standard Class* in Argentina was of the order of A$50,000.00. This involved importing in, and then exporting out a competitive glider as NO glider was available *for hire* in the whole of South America, let alone in Argentina. Any competitive glider in SA would already be entered into the competition! Ron, I think the quanta of those custom handling fees you mentioned is about right, but maybe one of the people with first hand knowledge can confirm this? So, as Tim has intimated, these are the reasons why Allan has changed classes and will now be flying World Class - I hope; albeit at a huge disadvantage to the rest of the field, given his inexperience in a PW 5. I sure would like to know how Craig and Tobias are managing (if at all), these basically financial/logistical problems. It would seem that, as always, the flying is the easy(?) part of the exercise, but more so in this venture! Regards, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Argentinian Worlds With 10,000 USD required as graft to get a glider thru customs I think the IGC should have cancelled the event and held it some where where corruption is not the name of the game. On 30 June 2012 11:37, Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net wrote: Hi Ron, As I understand it there have been significant problems with the costs and bureaucratic difficulties of getting gliders into the country. Apparently there are very few modern gliders available locally. I believe that Allan will now be flying in the World Class as it is possible for him to hire a PW5 in Argentina. Tobi Geiger, Craig Collings and Mike Durrant were in the original team with Allan - Mike has withdrawn because of the costs but I assume that Tobi and Craig are still attending. Both are in Club Class. This has not only affected Australia, there are many others around the world who are facing this problem. It may be a fairly small event. Cheers *Tim* *tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare* On 30/06/2012 13:21, Ron Sanders wrote: ONLY Alan?? On 29 June 2012 20:04, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: Think Allan Barnes will be there. Ian M On Jun 29, 2012 9:07 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: I was just wondering if Australia has any pilots at all attending the Argentinian Worlds in January 2013? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:
Re: [Aus-soaring] Goals
Hi Garry I would not dispute your eloquent analysis, my comment, at least in part, was a tongue in cheek. That being said, he did win an Australian competition in a glider that he had hardly any time in. It was of course a much far better aircraft than PW5, despite the same national heritage. The said, the glider had a fantastic training provided by the its regular pilot, and that should not be discounted :) and I do know the comp was somewhat rain affected. My goals? These days they are quite simple - to enjoy being in the air. Cheers Paul On 30 June 2012 22:46, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: ** Paul, Greetings. Your comment might be true, but it is meaningless in the present context. From your statement I suspect that you have not flown a PW 5 for 100 hours or so, and probably not even for 1 hour. We are talking quite different orders of (REDUCED), magnitude of performance here compared to LS 8 or even LS 4, or your own SZD 55. You might be somewhat surprised at just how many hours Allan now has in a LS 8. I don't know either, but my guess is well over 100 hours maybe closer to 150 hrs. More than enough anyway, to be rated as competent, and competitive on type. Genuine, experienced, PW 5 drivers at World level, understand every nuance of their ship and the air they are flying in and react accordingly.Just in case you are missing the point that I made in line 3 above, they have to react quite differently to a LS 4 (or LS 8), driver. Allan is a great pilot, but I repeat, he is at a huge disadvantage. I understand that he may have less than 5 hours on type (PW 5). Think about it! I certainly hope that Allan can put in a great performance, and meet (or exceed), the goals that he has set for himself in the upcoming comp. Which leads me to ask; How are you going on meeting your own goals? Regards, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Saturday, June 30, 2012 9:01 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Argentinian Worlds So, as Tim has intimated, these are the reasons why Allan has changed classes and will now be flying World Class - I hope; albeit at a huge disadvantage to the rest of the field, given his inexperience in a PW 5. Hmmm, the fact that he did not have too much time in LS8 does not seems to be hurting him too much in the US right now :). Cheers Paul On 30 June 2012 20:32, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: ** Hi Ron, Have you made it to WA yet? Tut, tut, tut. Graft and corruption in Argentina; how can you possibly say that? In this case, I think that what you really meant to say was that a certain party has been granted a special franchise to handle the customs arrangements. I am sure you understand how this system works. Any pilot is quite free to use somebody else, but do keep in mind that if said pilot chooses the alternate route Nothing can be guaranteed. I will leave it to your imagination to suppose which of the many dire possibilities that can happen, WILL actually happen. Do keep in mind too, that importing the glider is regarded as one exercise, and exporting the (same) glider is regarded as a totally different exercise - so (just for a start), read pay double. A very level playing field (for all but the Argentinean competitors): As long as you are a millionaire pilot and can pay on demand without hurting too much, or fully funded by your country regardless of cost, you will not have a problem! I think that Tim will prove right on the numbers. I fell really sorry for Mike Durrant. He told me recently, that the true cost to be competitive in *Standard Class* in Argentina was of the order of A$50,000.00. This involved importing in, and then exporting out a competitive glider as NO glider was available *for hire* in the whole of South America, let alone in Argentina. Any competitive glider in SA would already be entered into the competition! Ron, I think the quanta of those custom handling fees you mentioned is about right, but maybe one of the people with first hand knowledge can confirm this? So, as Tim has intimated, these are the reasons why Allan has changed classes and will now be flying World Class - I hope; albeit at a huge disadvantage to the rest of the field, given his inexperience in a PW 5. I sure would like to know how Craig and Tobias are managing (if at all), these basically financial/logistical problems. It would seem that, as always, the flying is the easy(?) part of the exercise, but more so in this venture! Regards, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Argentinian Worlds With 10,000 USD required as graft to get
Re: [Aus-soaring] FAA Investigating Fatal Glider Crash
He is fine Cheers Paul On 30 May 2012 13:06, John Switala john_swit...@ptp.com.au wrote: Alan Barnes is flying in that comp. Is he OK? ** ** ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Andres Miramontes *Sent:* Wednesday, 30 May 2012 12:08 PM *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] FAA Investigating Fatal Glider Crash ** ** http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-breaking-news-one-dies-after-glider-accident-20120529,0,2470761.story Andres ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glide ratio
You cannot ground the mighty Blanik :) Cheers Paul On 16 May 2012 08:39, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: At 08:24 AM 16/05/2012, you wrote: I wondered what the glide ratio of those flying suits was. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2144792/Redbull-skydivers-skies-high-Austria.html Looking at the pictures, about 2 Aren't Blaniks grounded? Or at least non aerobatic? Mike ** ** *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784** **overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784** **: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] What instruments to put into a new panel?
Hi Mike Do you have a link to the V1 display? Personally I love the Dell Streak, but unfortunately it stopped working, not sure if I can get it repaired yet. The transflective display is the way to go, but not many manufacturers seem to use it. Cheers Paul On 26 April 2012 09:10, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: At 08:35 PM 25/04/2012, you wrote: Or you can use XCSoar and configure all those items to your own preference :-) Scott There is a new PNA device available shortly called a V1. Essentially the same as the new Oudie with the same screen (you can get your old Oudie upgraded). 950 nits brightness and non glare coating so the thing is sunlight readable. About $300. If SeeYou Mobile is your thing, buy a new Oudie. That or a V1 make custom hardware very questionable on any price/performance comparison. If you want the same sort of device able to run any of the glide computer software then get a V1 and run your choice of WinPilot, XCSoar or LK8000 or SeeYou Mobile. I've got a couple on order for me and Ron. The 5Dell Streak isn't in production and the 7devices are too large for comfortable use in glider cockpits. There certainly is a problem with those in the US where Smartphones are banned in contests because the new ones can be used for instrument flight in cloud and to collect data for outside help. All of the glide computer software will converge. Any really good ideas will be requested by users for their particular software and as there is an active development group for XCSoar, Paolo is actively developing LK8000 and Jerry sells WinPilot and has a commercial interest in upgrading it, I doubt any of these really useful these features will be missing from those programs for very long. There is extra information available on all these programs if they receive not just GPS data but air data and settings like MacCready, bugs and ballast from the vario system. This also makes operating the whole system easier as these only require changing in one place then. AFAIK our B50 was the first vario that implemented this back in 1995 when I realised that the vario and glide computer only required connection by a simple well defined serial data stream. We have carried this over to the B500 and now B800 and have distributed a B800 simulator (it is also on our website now) that runs on Windows PCs to help developers of glide computers. The B800 main unit is also capable of accepting MacCready, bugs and ballast from the glide computer program so hopefully, soon, this will be implemented in the major glider computer programs. Getting hung up on vario average data etc is probably a mistake. The real question always is should I leave now and try for something better? Of course there's always that little voice saying are you feeling lucky? Well are ya, punk? :-) We've tried to make that decision as easy as possible in the averager display in both the B700 and B800. Look it up. No need to clutter the glide computer display with this. We're also working on a new Total Energy system that is insensitive to horizontal gusts and should be very easy to install with little to no tuning. A test flight a few weeks ago showed that our sensor package is up to the job. You will likely want to blend Flarm data with the data stream for display on the PNA and there are various devices on the market to do this including ours. BTW there's been another mid air in Europe between Flarm equipped gliders where the Flarms allegedly were working. Fortunately the damage was relatively minor (loss of 0.5m of wingtip and hole in D nose of wing of other glider) and there were no physical injuries and both pilots landed safely. Can't say any more. Mike ** ** *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784** **overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784** **: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air
Do not appologise Christopher I for one have enjoyed all the posts. Lets face it, it is an issue that affects us all. Cheers Paul On 23 March 2012 20:33, Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.comwrote: ** Mea culpa Bruce. I dropped the pebble in the pond. :-) - Original Message - *From:* Bruce Campbell discusdri...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.I have enjoyed all the posts aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Friday, March 23, 2012 7:49 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air This is way off topic - can you guys continue your exchange in private. The rest of us (well I'm sure I'm not alone) aren't interested. Thanks -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Has Krosno been revived?
Not sure about the costs of this one, but if it is low, could it be the desire to have an option for people with only average means to fly? Cheers Paul On 23 February 2012 00:22, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: What is it with the Yanks and low performance,ugly metal sailplanes? Tom -- *From:* MIKE BORGELT mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com *To:* Dave Donald icans...@y7mail.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 February 2012 8:12 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Has Krosno been revived? At 12:40 PM 22/02/2012, you wrote: Found this link recently: http://soaringcafe.com/2012/02/krosno-phoenix-from-the-ashes/ They're re-badging the Puchatek and calling it the Peregrine. No mention of 'Life' anywhere in their literature though. Dave ___ dear god I hope not. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes
And it has another benefit for those of us less emaciated :) *All-up Suspended Weight (AUW)* 160 kg (350 lb) And I presume they want the troops to be able to fight after the drop, perhaps the ride is slow enough to not break bones. Cheers Paul On 21 February 2012 10:07, DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com wrote: If someone was high enough to bail out successfully (at least 3,000ft) http://www.airborne-sys.com/pages/view/8m-llp-llrp The LLRP is a very safe low profile, chest-mounted reserve assembly. It is used as a back-up system for troop parachutes and has been cleared for drops from altitudes as low as 76m (250 ft). The LLRP has been designed to inflate quickly at low as well as high speed eliminating the risks that the reserve canopy conflicts with the canopy of the main parachute. I guess that if the plane was stable as opposed to being in an uncontrollable spin, you could bail out at a much lower height than 3,000' and survive, especially if you had the right gear. I bit too low for comfort perhaps, but there have been deployments of HG backup parachutes which are designed to be very fast opening but at lower airspeeds than sailplane 'chutes, where the chute popped at tree-top height. All that being said, my parachute came with the warranty that it might fail under any or all conditions and should not be relied upon in an emergency. so perhaps, as in sailing, where you only get into a life raft if you can step up into it, your parachute is a last rest :-) D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes
Could not sell :) Cheers Paul On 20 February 2012 07:50, MIKE BORGELT mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: Makes you wonder why he bailed out. Control system problem? Spin recovery? Mike At 09:46 PM 19/02/2012, you wrote: Airframe looks almost undamaged and intact. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-17088948 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ - bit more info
Maybe it is all about Australia NZ rivalry, Australia is first with such widely based the carbon tax, so NZ ups the ante with being first with this regulation, and proud of it obviously, given this “We are to my knowledge is the only regulator in the world to introduce an adventure aviation rule. Cheers Paul On 9 November 2011 08:38, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: At 06:28 PM 8/11/2011, you wrote: At 05:41 PM 8/11/2011, you wrote: http://www.scene.co.nz/new-caa-rules-for-air-thrills-firms/293895a1.page ___ The seminar was held to explain how to complete the reams of paperwork needed to comply with CAA rule part 115 – *Adventure Aviation – Certification and Operations*. The CAA anticipates it will issue about 50 certificates, costing about $7,600 each, within the first year. Wonderful, not how to operate safely but how to fill in the extensive paperwork and be charged for it. If the Mafia did this it would be called a protection racket. Eventually the parasite class will find that the corpse of the productive class doesn't have any more blood in it. Mike * What's really funny though is that this is the country that invented commercial bungee jumping! Mike* *Borgelt Instruments* - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soarinhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Cambridge instruments for sale, please delete if not interested
Hi Due to an instrument upgrade I have the following for sale: Cambridge L-NAV Cabridge vario 57mm Cambridge GPS-NAV 20 Cambridge LCD display All instruments are in current use and in good condition. If interested please contact me off line on: pb2...@gmail.com or 0412 194 318 Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Tasking
Your post actually Paul On 8 August 2011 22:45, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: I am not, what gives you that idea? Sent from my iPad On 08/08/2011, at 6:03 PM, Anne Elliott anne.ellio...@bigpond.com wrote: Didn’t realise you were going to be the task setter at the Nrm comps Ross. ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ross McLean *Sent:* Monday, 8 August 2011 5:56 PM *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Tasking ** ** Just want to address the Tasking at Narromine MultiClass Nationals in January. Obviously subject to weather and other variables, as Tim has pointed out, but the tasks can be expected to be be a mix of Fixed Tasks and AAT’s with the majority likely to be Fixed Tasks. AAT’s will be employed to cope with variable weather conditions and to vary the challenges and are expected to include wedges. Straight in finishes will be strongly encouraged and are expected to be the norm. Weather permitting we hope to be able to challenge the Open Class boys with some looong tasks in order to level the playing field to the 18m guys flying in Open class. ROSS ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Tim Shirley *Sent:* Monday, 8 August 2011 3:15 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Tasking ** ** AAT 101. A long time ago in a universe far far away, everyone used cameras for waypoint verification. In the Club Class Nationals, in order to cater for the wide range of performances in what was a one-class competition, the POST task was used - this task required pilots to fly to any waypoint they wished, take a photo, and go on to the next waypoint of their choice. The only restriction was that you could not do out and returns, so you could fly A-B-C-A but not A-B-A-B. This task was quite interesting - in that the entire fleet was criss-crossing the task area pretty much at random and there was nothing to prevent two gliders approaching the same waypoint from conflicting directions. With the advent of loggers, it was possible to use AAT tasks to overcome the performance range issue, by setting a task that could be completed by a Libelle as well as an ASW22. The Club class turned to this task quite quickly as it was obvious that the POST task was not really satisfactory. It then turned out that AAT was being flown overseas and was introduced at World Comps, and so the Multiclass Nationals took it up as well. Club Class however continued to fly only AAT because of the performance range issue. It was always intended that in multiclass the split of AAT and fixed tasking should be about 50-50, though as always with tasking that was a guideline, not a rule. The original intention of the AAT task was to address a performance range problem, not an uncertain weather problem - though of course people discovered that it is possible to use it for both purposes. Personally I would agree with Adam that setting very large circles is not a good idea unless there is no alternative. Note also that these decisions on tasking types were made by pilots meetings, not committees or contest directors. When the Club and Sports Class split took place, there was of course an opportunity to introduce fixed tasking in Club/Sports Class, but at first pilots were reluctant to do this. This has changed only in the last two years, and in fact I think (I may be wrong here) that last year (ie, Jan 2011) was the first time that the Club/Sports pilots voted to include fixed tasking as an option. For this coming year, the Local Rules for Benalla include all task types as an option and I fully expect that all classes will fly some fixed tasks. However, tasking is dependent on many variables and I make no guarantees. For the last Club/Sports Class Nationals we flew all AAT, however on most days we used some wedge shaped AAT areas. This had the advantage of better channelling the gliders around a particular task while having the faster pilots heading out further into the sectors but at the same time removing some of the randomness that large circles provide. The wedges were seen as a complication at first, but by the end of the contest were routine for most pilots. This approach will continue at Benalla 2012. I am not responsible for the multiclass nationals or the junior nationals so I can't say what attitude will be taken by those organisations, however if the Nationals Guidelines are followed I think there would be about 50-50 AAT and fixed tasks. Finally, I'm just a Contest Director. I do my best with the rules I am given, to satisfy all requirements and run a fair and safe competition. Anyone who thinks
Re: [Aus-soaring] Good morning
Hmmm. Good morning DDD signed by DDD Are you sending these to yourself? And the list of course :) Cheers Paul On 24 June 2011 07:55, Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.comwrote: ** Good morning DDD Cloudy here. Your fault. DDD oxo ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Going off the air until mid July
you could say the same about oil... Yes. I often put it to the zealots, that nature developed humans with intelligence simply to restore the status quo, ie, to liberate all that carbon and to put it back into the atmosphere :) Cheers Paul On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Urs Rothacher u...@flarm.com wrote: Volcanoes (to be more precise: Plate Tectonics) are actually carbon emission neutral, if averaged over a few hundred million years… The stuff that bubbles up in volcanoes has been subducted some years prior. http://dilu.bol.ucla.edu/ (Warning, science in progress…) Enjoy Urs *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *JR *Sent:* Montag, 23. Mai 2011 21:01 *To:* ha...@interweft.com.au; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Going off the air until mid July Are the Icelanders paying a carbon tax ? JR ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] rigging
Hi Harry I would agree that a second inspection is always a bonus, unless it leads to poorer initial inspection in the hope that the second inspection is likely to catch the omissions from the first inspection. However I do not think that is the problem some people have in this thread. It is the liability that their signature may expose them to. One could argue, that if a second inspection is done well, it would prevent any legal troubles down the road. However the Foka incident shows otherwise - some faults with rigging are not able to be seen. That being said, what is the penalty if there is no second signature on the DI (after rigging). Does the pilot / club loses their insurance? Personally, when asked I do the second inspection and supply my signature. Why, one would ask, well that is simple, sometimes I require a second signature when I rig my glider, so to withhold mine would seem rather selfish. If everyone took the attitude that they will not provide the second inspection and their signature it would bring the club system to a disarray. Cheers Paul On 19 May 2011 05:45, hw.medlic...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Hi All As a very early solo pilot I hired a glider at a professional operation. the glider was on the launch point. I started todo my walk around check but was told ithe glider was OK and the tug was waiting. Did it anyway. On touching the elevator found the horisontal tailplane moved freely up and down 50/75 mm at the tip.it had not been connected properly. The glider had just been rigged after an outlanding. Not sure what would have happened if I had not found it but suspect it would not have been pretty. Would suggest that even if the probability of a second check finding an error was one in a hundred thousand it would still be worthwhile. Interstingly, the more intelligent the person, the more likely to make mistakes doing relatively simple tasks - their mind wanders off elsewhere. Also,human nature being what it is, we tend to be more thorough when we know our work is being checked, Harry Medlicott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] rigging - insurance question
Thanks Mike, that is what I thought. Could not see any other problem. So, the question arises, what do the people who do not provide a signature do when they rig their own gliderless and I assume wish to be insured? Paul On 19/05/2011 1:06 PM, Mike Cleaver wom...@netspeed.com.au wrote: Paul Most insurance companies require that all legal requirements are met in the operation of your aircraft, and are likely to void the insurance (i.e. refuse a claim) if they find something like a legal requirement for a second inspection has been overlooked. The signature is the proof that a second inspection has been done. Whether or not a second inspection has been well done, was physically (as opposed to legally) necessary, or, as in the UK case, would not have found the fault - the rules call for it so an insurance company can use this excuse if they so choose. Wombat At 08:21 19/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Harry I would agree that a second inspection is always a bonus, unless it leads to poorer initial inspection in the hope that the second inspection is likely to catch the omissions from the first inspection. However I do not think that is the problem some people have in this thread. It is the liability that their signature may expose them to. One could argue, that if a second inspection is done well, it would prevent any legal troubles down the road. However the Foka incident shows otherwise - some faults with rigging are not able to be seen. That being said, what is the penalty if there is no second signature on the DI (after rigging). Does the pilot / club loses their insurance? Personally, when asked I do the second inspection and supply my signature. Why, one would ask, well that is simple, sometimes I require a second signature when I rig my glider, so to withhold mine would seem rather selfish. If everyone took the attitude that they will not provide the second inspection and their signature it would bring the club system to a disarray. Cheers Paul On 19 May 2011 05:45, mailto:hw.medlic...@optusnet.com.auhw.medlic...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Hi All As a very early solo pilot I hired a glider at a professional operation. the glider was on the launch point. I started todo my walk around check but was told ithe glider was OK and the tug was waiting. Did it anyway. On touching the elevator found the horisontal tailplane moved freely up and down 50/75 mm at the http://tip.ittip.it had not been connected properly. The glider had just been rigged after an outlanding. Not sure what would have happened if I had not found it but suspect it would not have been pretty. Would suggest that even if the probability of a second check finding an error was one in a hundred thousand it would still be worthwhile. Interstingly, the more intelligent the person, the more likely to make mistakes doing relatively simple tasks - their mind wanders off elsewhere. Also,human nature being what it is, we tend to be more thorough when we know our work is being checked, Harry Medlicott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Small creatures ...
How about an electric fence. A member in our club being annoyed with the said creatures climbing into his glider via the main wheel, built an electric fence to surround the wheel to prevent access. I have seen the working prototype, but I am not quite sure if he actually used it in practice as the plague has abated now. Cheers Paul On 17 May 2011 17:21, Terry Neumann tfneum...@internode.on.net wrote: Rigging is off the agenda.OK - here's something different then. How about *mus musculus* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_mouse and their close relatives. Central SA is having something of a mouse plague at present. From what I heard on the amateur radio a few nights back, the problem extends well into the eastern states also. They really make themselves at home in an environment where they are not disturbed all that often. That means most gliding establishments - including the aircraft =-O . How to best manage all aspects of this little challenge must be exercising a few people's thoughts right now. Discuss ?? Terry ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
More importantly, if it did happen in Australia, is there a procedure that following the accident would resolve what the problem was? Cheers Paul On 16 May 2011 14:01, Matthew Gage m...@knightschallenge.com wrote: Rolf, in this I agree with Mike - there is no way that a duplicate control check (or even DI) would have found the problem. Sadly, such a person would have spent months in court defending themselves, costing them many thousands with no prospect of any insurance helping them. In practice, the UK do have a 2nd inspection - just with no signature. The accident report even says this was done ! Is it the check that improves safety or the signature On 16/05/2011, at 13:35 , rolf a. buelter wrote: Yea, way more important to cover your ass against litigation then document a second chance to get it right! Allays your miserable Mr. Buelter Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:54:25 +1000 To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Lots of lessons in the Foka crash. One big one is how fortunate it was the BGA and there was no second sigmnature on the DI after rigging. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bonus Jet
On 5 May 2011 22:15, erich wittstock deepb...@gmail.com wrote: ...some say oxygen is produced and carbon is sinked by trees. Little do they know that most of that cycle is done by our oceans and the little critters within. Thus most of our fossil fuels originate from our oceans. Let's blame continental drift for it ending up under our land masses. Feasible theory. Same for Titan. But how about the inefficiency of using a turbo-jet engine compared to turbo-fan and turbo-prop engines at low speeds? Let alone extracting and refining vast amounts of higher chain hydrocarbons. Why not use solar light? The nit-ti grit-ties of accumulating electron differentials are being improved as we type. Political monkey dance aside: the Prius is now in the third generation (Cameron Diaz even likes it...) Perhaps it allies her conscience given the copious energy she is likely using jetting around the globe. and the panels on the roofs of those that installed them seem to work as well. Well they work, when the sun shines and not so well when it does not. I guess the good part is that Ergon has agreed to pay me 50 cents per kWh at a time when they actually do not need it. That is somewhere between 2.5 and 3 times the cost of the dearest power I buy. License to exploit the poor and unit dwellers. Will it save the Earth? Not likely. The steam engine, micro processor and electric vario were once labelled useless projects as well. But they did help us along the way. Admit it, Mike, you are spending more time flying electric pushers and impeller types than flying jet powered models. I just witnessed one of these oh so dangerous LiPo's being crunched to mush induced by an aerobatic standing 9 figure. It didn't explode nor ignite (very disappointing...) Voyager was another one of those useless projects. But it did fly around the world in a single flight. What if Solar-impulse can do the same? Why didn't you listen to those that were of the opinion that electric varios are never going to be useful? Where is your spirit gone? Fossilised, waiting to be refined and burned? Erich Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Antena length for Oz Flarm
Hi Jeff Thank you and belatedly to Ian. That confirms exactly what I was thinking regarding the length. I just was not sure that my conclusions were correct. Cheers Paul On 17 April 2011 20:47, Jeff Farrow farrow_j...@hotmail.com wrote: Paul I attach an email that Ian McPhee sent to this list last year. An explanaation for the discrepancy. Jeff Farrow *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ian Mc Phee *Sent:* Thursday, 10 December 2009 8:24 AM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] many OZFLARM comm (stick) aerials in use may well be the wrong aerial (far too short) Been troubled by some lack of performance in OZFLARMS for some time now and only yesterday after talking to Mark Fisher realised many of the stick communication aerials on OZFLARMS may well be wrong frequency. I do know 4 in our club are wrong length and the fifth glider has one of those Mobile one long range aerial which gives you green LEDs well beyong what the eye can see even 4 to 5 km!!! My calculation for 900mhz is the 1/4 wave aerial 75 to 80mm long. At our club 4 the little white aerial say 40 mm long - far too short. It would seem the little person in China threw all the say 900MHz and either 1800 or 2400MHz aerials in the one box as they looks the same on the outside. *I urge as many people as possible this weekend pop the rubber cover off the aerial and inspect the inside aerial length* I am predicting 50% of the aerials will be the wrong length - far too short. Job will take less than 1 minute. It would be easy to add a little copper wire of the right length While on Flarms etc I can say GPS (flat aerial) are best placed 25cm apart as the GPSs can interfer with each other. Also in motorglider if you are using the engine battery I would suggest fitting a 22000uF capicator in the power lead near flarm I will be very interested to hear the results of the aerial wore length Ian McPhee No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.116/2580 - Release Date: 12/22/09 06:13:00 - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; Chat DDSC c...@ddsc.org.au *Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:31 PM *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Antena length for Oz Flarm Hi I have become concerned that the range at which my Flarm detects gliders is not anywhere near specification. It often bypasses the green warning, going straight to red. I understand that there are many factors in play, such as shielding from the instrument panel, carbon etc., but I do not think that this is the explanation in my case. So I thought I would invest in a better antenna, but before I did that I had a look at the standard antenna provided. When I removed the plastic covering I was surprised that the actual antenna was only 48 mm long. Yet the manual states, that the antenna at 1/4 wavelength should be 86 mm long. I also have the original Swiss Flarm (inherited from a glider purchase from Europe) so I compared and its antenna is approximately 80 mm, but as the cover is not removable, I cannot confirm the length of the actual conductor. Anyway I had a look at a few wavelength calculators on the web and given the average frequency the Oz Flarm operates on is about 921MHz, the 1/4 wavelength should be approximately 77mm and not the 86 indicated in the manual. I haste to add here that I know next to nothing about antenna design, so a simple application of the formula might not be correct. In any case though, the length of the antenna on my Flarm is 48 mm, well short of the manual stated 86 mm. So I would like to ask those that know more then I on this topic 1) Is 48 mm the correct length (too long for 1/8 and too short for 1/4 wavelength) 2) If not, should it be 86mm as per manual, or 77mm as per calculated length 3) If mine is NOT an isolated case and the 45 mm length is not correct, are we having a fleet of Flarms out there with much poorer range and hence effectiveness that we should have. Any help on the topic greatly appreciated Cheers Paul -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ozflarm antenna length
Hi Nigel Thank you for this explanation. I have wondered if it was an 1/8, but I thought it was too long, as my (inexpert) calculation indicated 38mm as compare to the 45 I am getting on the standard antenna, but granted, it is difficult to know to which point measure on the elbow, so few mm can easily be lost / gained. When you say the 1/2 wavelength antenna sold by Mark has to be submerged for 1/4 of its length, are you talking simply in terms of available space or is it something to do with the performance? In any case, thank you for clarifying the issue. Cheers Paul On 18 April 2011 12:00, Nigel Andrews n.andr...@andrewselectronic.com.auwrote: Hi all, As I was the original OEM of the OzFlarm some explanation for the antennas is required. The original ozflarms used 1/8 wavelength stubs commonly used on wireless modems in the 800 – 900 MHz band. We used them because the ¼ wave would just not fit on most dashes if you used a true ground independent type which added the extra height. So you could use out of the box the supplied antenna and have reasonable coverage. We then offered a clear high gain antenna which had excellent range but was difficult to locate in a suitable position to take advantage of this. The final solution was a ½ wave ground independent which Mark sells and works fine BUT you have to submerge about ¼ of the length in the dash and poke the rest above. They work fine so long as you don’t shield the radiating section. We also sold a stick on antenna that was a ½ wave dipole, those who have a glass nosecone can use these, vertically polarised. Our club discus has one and its working well. The ultimate solution is an external antenna with a very short feed cable as you will lose most of the signal in the cable if not careful. The new “powerflarm” has a better receive path and higher TX aimed at the G.A market (sports aircraft, ultralights) but can be used in gliders, it also receives mode A/C transmissions and issues “proximity” alarms, and if equipped with ADS-B you will see their location and height, distance as well. Choosing the correct antenna and providing the best location and installation possible is imperative for maximum benefit of flarm, especially early detection of a front on conflict so take the time to make it work, use the antenna tool for ranging on the flarm site which looks at your IGC file which has some information pertaining to the distance of other aircraft received during the flight, best to use this at a comp where you have lots of targets to provide the data. It will map your received profile, 2 or more km’s is an acceptable result. Cheers Nigel *o** Nigel Andrews–* *Engineering / Sales* 1A/13 Steel Street (upstairs) Capalaba Queensland 4157 Australia - PO BOX 114, Capalaba, Queensland Australia 4157 ( Mobile 0419989288 * n.andr...@andrewselectronic.com.au Skype - rv7pilot *Andrews Electronics Designs Pty Ltd* ABN - 921-33392140 Electronics engineering for the future **DISCLAIMER The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Antena length for Oz Flarm
Hi I have become concerned that the range at which my Flarm detects gliders is not anywhere near specification. It often bypasses the green warning, going straight to red. I understand that there are many factors in play, such as shielding from the instrument panel, carbon etc., but I do not think that this is the explanation in my case. So I thought I would invest in a better antenna, but before I did that I had a look at the standard antenna provided. When I removed the plastic covering I was surprised that the actual antenna was only 48 mm long. Yet the manual states, that the antenna at 1/4 wavelength should be 86 mm long. I also have the original Swiss Flarm (inherited from a glider purchase from Europe) so I compared and its antenna is approximately 80 mm, but as the cover is not removable, I cannot confirm the length of the actual conductor. Anyway I had a look at a few wavelength calculators on the web and given the average frequency the Oz Flarm operates on is about 921MHz, the 1/4 wavelength should be approximately 77mm and not the 86 indicated in the manual. I haste to add here that I know next to nothing about antenna design, so a simple application of the formula might not be correct. In any case though, the length of the antenna on my Flarm is 48 mm, well short of the manual stated 86 mm. So I would like to ask those that know more then I on this topic 1) Is 48 mm the correct length (too long for 1/8 and too short for 1/4 wavelength) 2) If not, should it be 86mm as per manual, or 77mm as per calculated length 3) If mine is NOT an isolated case and the 45 mm length is not correct, are we having a fleet of Flarms out there with much poorer range and hence effectiveness that we should have. Any help on the topic greatly appreciated Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Antena length for Oz Flarm
Hi Matthew Thanks for your reply. I am aware of the ability to upload the log files. That being said, I would still like to resolve the antenna issue. As I have said I am not an expert, but as far as I know it is important to achieve the appropriate resonance in the antenna and that will only happen with it being of correct length. Cheers Paul On 17 April 2011 13:08, Matthew Gage m...@knightschallenge.com wrote: The first thing to do is upload some log files from your flarm to their web site - it will give you a chart showing at what range it is working in all directions. In many cases, the problem is not the antenna,but some shielding within the cockpit, etc. It can also be that the other units are in stealth mode, which dramatically reduces the usefulness of the system - detection is then based on alerting conflict instead of presence, If you are achieving 2.5km range in some directions, then work on antenna positioning before anything else. On 17/04/2011, at 12:31 , Paul Bart wrote: Hi I have become concerned that the range at which my Flarm detects gliders is not anywhere near specification. It often bypasses the green warning, going straight to red. I understand that there are many factors in play, such as shielding from the instrument panel, carbon etc., but I do not think that this is the explanation in my case. So I thought I would invest in a better antenna, but before I did that I had a look at the standard antenna provided. When I removed the plastic covering I was surprised that the actual antenna was only 48 mm long. Yet the manual states, that the antenna at 1/4 wavelength should be 86 mm long. I also have the original Swiss Flarm (inherited from a glider purchase from Europe) so I compared and its antenna is approximately 80 mm, but as the cover is not removable, I cannot confirm the length of the actual conductor. Anyway I had a look at a few wavelength calculators on the web and given the average frequency the Oz Flarm operates on is about 921MHz, the 1/4 wavelength should be approximately 77mm and not the 86 indicated in the manual. I haste to add here that I know next to nothing about antenna design, so a simple application of the formula might not be correct. In any case though, the length of the antenna on my Flarm is 48 mm, well short of the manual stated 86 mm. So I would like to ask those that know more then I on this topic 1) Is 48 mm the correct length (too long for 1/8 and too short for 1/4 wavelength) 2) If not, should it be 86mm as per manual, or 77mm as per calculated length 3) If mine is NOT an isolated case and the 45 mm length is not correct, are we having a fleet of Flarms out there with much poorer range and hence effectiveness that we should have. Any help on the topic greatly appreciated Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fw: Boonah incident today
Which glider is that (GSK)? Cheers Paul On 10 April 2011 18:05, Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.comwrote: Some info sent to me. a low approach in GSK with the right wrong contacting a tree and spinning the gilder round. The 13 is a write off and Tony was taken to Ipswitch hospital. - Original Message - *From:* Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Sunday, April 10, 2011 4:17 PM *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Boonah incident today http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/glider-crashes-at-boonah-airfield/story-e6freon6-1226036774499 Chris -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fw: Boonah incident today
Thank you Peter and Tim Cheers Paul On 10 April 2011 20:19, Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net wrote: It's a ASK13. I am fairly sure that I did my first solo in it at Gawler in 1976. Sad news, and I hope that the pilot is not badly hurt. Cheers *Tim* *tra dire è fare c'e mezzo il mare* On 10/04/2011 8:14, Peter Stephenson wrote: VH GSK Glider with other landing gear Manufacturer: ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER SEGELFLUGZEUGBAU Model: AS-K13 Serial number: 13257 On 10/04/2011 8:09 PM, Peter Stephenson wrote: K13? On 10/04/2011 8:06 PM, Paul Bart wrote: Which glider is that (GSK)? Cheers Paul On 10 April 2011 18:05, Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.comwrote: Some info sent to me. a low approach in GSK with the right wrong contacting a tree and spinning the gilder round. The 13 is a write off and Tony was taken to Ipswitch hospital. - Original Message - *From:* Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Sunday, April 10, 2011 4:17 PM *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Boonah incident today http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/glider-crashes-at-boonah-airfield/story-e6freon6-1226036774499 Chris -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing listaus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Good morning
Cheers Paul On 11 April 2011 08:09, Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.comwrote: Thanks Dave. Trying hard to join you, my daughter and your weather there. Anyone want a home in the Adelaide Hills? :-( What with all that bad weather and all :) Cheers Paul - Original Message - *From:* Dave Donald icans...@y7mail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Monday, April 11, 2011 7:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Good morning Good morning DDD, lovely QLD day today, tell Mum to have a nice day at Nans. Dave oxo -- *From:* Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Mon, 11 April, 2011 7:48:55 AM *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Good morning Good morning DDD. Miserable SA today. Mum is off to Nans. DDD oxo -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Oshkosh electric flight awards
On 28 March 2011 12:26, DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com wrote: . A few people who die when falling off roofs when installing solar power or a few birds who die in wind-farms are very different to the problems caused by nuclear or coal immediately or long after the power has been generated. Well, the number of people that actually died from the generation of electricity from nuclear power is quite small. I am sure the number that died from generating power from coal is far greater. However tragic as those deaths are to those that are close to them the fact remains that the cheap energy generated from those resources saved / prolonged / made better the lives of countless others. The fact that we even can have this discussion using this particular medium is a direct proof of it. The very fact that we use our cars on a regular basis results in a death of some 1700 Australians every year - yet would you say save me from the automobile? My guess is that should we not use them the number of deaths from other causes would be far greater. Clearly, society makes the same guess, as we continue to use them. Anyone who has spent any time in southern China would know that the world has a real problem and it needs solving fast. Oddly the Chinese seem to know this better than some of us do Yes they do, they realise that Chinese people have aspirations for better quality of life, that is why they build about two coal powered power stations every week. Electric vehicles are great for reducing local pollution, but do very little to reduce CO2 emissions. I was very surprised to see the how many scooters, bikes etc were powered by electric motors, same in Vietnam. But did you notice how cheap they were compare to Australian prices? Why is it that once it hits Australian shores the price of the environment friendly devices escalates? Is it because of the various subsidies that can be used to reduce the price? Save me from nuclear power! Well if CO2 proves to be a problem it may be the viable option. That way nuclear energy will be responsible for launching the electric powered glider as well keeping it aloft when the motor is stowed away. P . ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] XC Soar on Android
Hi Jim Which version of Galaxy Tam are you using? There seems to be Galaxy Tab 10.1 (P7100) and this one Galaxy Tab P1000, big difference in price between them Cheers Paul On 22 March 2011 03:59, Jim Staniforth staniforth...@yahoo.com wrote: Just installed XC Soar on a Samsung Galaxy Tab. It was very easy! Good timing... RAM is introducing a mount for tablets. While the display is not as daylight readable as the ClearNav or similar, it's better than Oudie or similar. Although the case overall is smaller, the Tab screen size is about the same as an Altair but you have to contend with smears and fingerprints on the glossy touch screen. Perhaps a matte screen protector would help. With the RAM-B-SCMK RAP-B-201 RAM-B-238http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/ram.htm#RAM-B-SCMK-RAP-B-201-RAM-B-238this could be a very nice portable system. The Tab connects to your computer as two USB drives, the Micro SD card being the second one. Jim From a Max Kellermann post on RAS: XCSoar can be obtained for free from Google's Android Market (https://market.android.com/details?id=org.xcsoarhttp://www.google.com/url?sa=Dq=https://market.android.com/details%3Fid%3Dorg.xcsoar) or from our web site (http://www.xcsoar.org/http://www.google.com/url?sa=Dq=http://www.xcsoar.org/). After installing the software, copy your data files (maps, waypoints, airspaces) to the directory XCSoarData on the SD card, launch XCSoar, and configure the files (double-tap to open the menu, Config / Config / Setup System). Our manual has detailed instructions. The RAM tablet mount: http://www.ram-mount.com/NewProducts/ramadaptacradle/tabid/3616/Default.aspx ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute
Fair enough Gary, maybe it is just me, but I would rather see five emails that may violate the non commercial status of this forum rather than one angry one. Cheers Paul On 17 March 2011 12:57, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: No! What I suggested to Dave Donald was to conduct the ensuing negotiations (if any) - ongoing business off line - Private email or telephone.As it turned out, Dave gave me a call, and said he was not a buyer, and was not entering into negotiations. His was just an interested further detail query. I hereby apologise to Dave. Hope that clarifies things for you Paul. BTW, I responded to Paul Mander's email, *before *I saw the one from Bob. Cheers, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 1:23 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute Did you not rant at someone recently for the very same thing you are engaging in now? note Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618) Paul On 17 March 2011 11:50, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: So do I. It is a Strong Enterprises 26' Para Cushion (slim *back*). Date of manufacture 1987. Price $1200. Gary Stevenson 03 5352 4938 - Original Message - *From:* Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute I’ve got a surplus slim pack, good condition. Paul Mander, p...@mander.net.au. 0417 447 974 -- *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *bob mcdonald *Sent:* Thursday, 17 March 2011 8:59 AM *To:* Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] parachute I am looking to buy a used parachute but in good condition. Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618). -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] State of mind
Hi Gary Maybe, one thing is for sure, older we get the more likely that scenario is:) Cheers Paul On 17 March 2011 22:07, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Paul, Perhaps in the bigger picture, anger sometimes has its place? However re gliding, and this forum, I prefer passion, and as our Sports Psychologists tell us it is essential to have some arousal in most things we do. As one commentator put it *otherwise you might wake up dead one morning, and not even know it*! Now that is indeed something to think about. Cheers, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:15 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute Fair enough Gary, maybe it is just me, but I would rather see five emails that may violate the non commercial status of this forum rather than one angry one. Cheers Paul On 17 March 2011 12:57, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: No! What I suggested to Dave Donald was to conduct the ensuing negotiations (if any) - ongoing business off line - Private email or telephone.As it turned out, Dave gave me a call, and said he was not a buyer, and was not entering into negotiations. His was just an interested further detail query. I hereby apologise to Dave. Hope that clarifies things for you Paul. BTW, I responded to Paul Mander's email, *before *I saw the one from Bob. Cheers, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 1:23 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute Did you not rant at someone recently for the very same thing you are engaging in now? note Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618) Paul On 17 March 2011 11:50, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: So do I. It is a Strong Enterprises 26' Para Cushion (slim *back*). Date of manufacture 1987. Price $1200. Gary Stevenson 03 5352 4938 - Original Message - *From:* Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute I’ve got a surplus slim pack, good condition. Paul Mander, p...@mander.net.au. 0417 447 974 -- *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *bob mcdonald *Sent:* Thursday, 17 March 2011 8:59 AM *To:* Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] parachute I am looking to buy a used parachute but in good condition. Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618). -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] State of mind/breakaway groups
Hi Gary Yes I am, weather permitting. I was going to work on the caravan for a few days, so having a bit flying amongst it will be great. Shame about the Easter comp though. I wonder if people just got sick of turning up and ending up not flying. Cheers Paul On 17 March 2011 23:52, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Paul, I think you are missing the point entirely. Age has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Gary Are you intending to fly the SZD 55 at DDSC over Easter? Looks like there is already a Goondiwindi breakaway group forming. During a comp many years ago 8 pilots landed out at Donald A/F in Victoria. They decided that they would all get aerotow retrieves. 4 pilots elected to launch off 08. The other 4 decided on 36! What is truly amazing is that nobody decided to use 09/27. I note that nobody from any of the 3 clubs at Bacchus Mash, took up Tim Shirley's (surely tongue in cheek?), recent query on this forum as to why there should be 3 individual clubs (with a common purpose?), operating from this airfield. - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:46 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] State of mind Hi Gary Maybe, one thing is for sure, older we get the more likely that scenario is:) Cheers Paul On 17 March 2011 22:07, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Paul, Perhaps in the bigger picture, anger sometimes has its place? However re gliding, and this forum, I prefer passion, and as our Sports Psychologists tell us it is essential to have some arousal in most things we do. As one commentator put it *otherwise you might wake up dead one morning, and not even know it*! Now that is indeed something to think about. Cheers, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:15 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute Fair enough Gary, maybe it is just me, but I would rather see five emails that may violate the non commercial status of this forum rather than one angry one. Cheers Paul On 17 March 2011 12:57, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: No! What I suggested to Dave Donald was to conduct the ensuing negotiations (if any) - ongoing business off line - Private email or telephone.As it turned out, Dave gave me a call, and said he was not a buyer, and was not entering into negotiations. His was just an interested further detail query. I hereby apologise to Dave. Hope that clarifies things for you Paul. BTW, I responded to Paul Mander's email, *before *I saw the one from Bob. Cheers, Gary - Original Message - *From:* Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 1:23 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute Did you not rant at someone recently for the very same thing you are engaging in now? note Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618) Paul On 17 March 2011 11:50, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: So do I. It is a Strong Enterprises 26' Para Cushion (slim *back*). Date of manufacture 1987. Price $1200. Gary Stevenson 03 5352 4938 - Original Message - *From:* Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute I’ve got a surplus slim pack, good condition. Paul Mander, p...@mander.net.au. 0417 447 974 -- *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *bob mcdonald *Sent:* Thursday, 17 March 2011 8:59 AM *To:* Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] parachute I am looking to buy a used parachute but in good condition. Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618). -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus
Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute
Did you not rant at someone recently for the very same thing you are engaging in now? note Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618) Paul On 17 March 2011 11:50, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: So do I. It is a Strong Enterprises 26' Para Cushion (slim *back*). Date of manufacture 1987. Price $1200. Gary Stevenson 03 5352 4938 - Original Message - *From:* Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] parachute I’ve got a surplus slim pack, good condition. Paul Mander, p...@mander.net.au. 0417 447 974 -- *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *bob mcdonald *Sent:* Thursday, 17 March 2011 8:59 AM *To:* Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] parachute I am looking to buy a used parachute but in good condition. Please contact Bob McDonald by email or phone(0263376618). -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air vent
Thank you Bernard, I fly 55 and the tail was where I hoped the air was leaving the glider. Really the only option I guess. Cheers Paul On 24 February 2011 15:14, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hello Paul The reason why I had reservations entering the debate in the first place was concerns about a large number of e-mails that need answering. I will answer yours but ask for everyone's understanding that I can not continue to do so! You are right - the ventilation air needs to escape again and this needs to be managed. For this very reason there are several openings (call them air extractors if you like) at the tail end of a glider. Even a partial sealing of these openings causes a large reduction in ventilation airflow. But not only that - it is also detrimental in terms of performance as the air attempts to escape in other (less desirable) places. I trust this helps. Kind regards to all Bernard -- *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul Bart *Sent:* Thursday, 24 February 2011 2:18 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Air vent Hi Bernard Firstly let me say that I have no credentials in glider design, so please take my comments on that basis. Clearly, with the vents open, there is a considerable inflow into the cockpit. That is only possible if an equal amount of air leaves the cockpit. So I am wondering, would it not be better if the outflow was managed? Perhaps it already is. Cheers Paul On 24 February 2011 13:35, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hello Gary, hello all I wasn't going to enter the debate but now I feel that it is about time to put the record straight. A) The Mandl air extractor is anything but new. Schleicher experimented with a similar device more than 20 years ago and so did Dick Buttler in the US. B) If my information is correct both parties have found that considerable drag is created where the (almost stationary) ventilation air is meeting the free airflow again. C) Statements such as *The size and geometry of the extractor lower the pressure * *level inside the cockpit to ambient levels and allow the ventilation air to * *seamlessly re-enter the external flow outside the fuselage*. can only be regarded as an attempt to mislead the gliding public. No air extractor known to mankind can accelerate the ventilation air without causing severe turbulence and hence create considerable aerodynamic penalties. D) If I remember correctly onother manufacturer has claimed that his air extractor improves the performance of his glider by 3 or even 4%. Claims like these are utter nonsense! They were even privately disputed (laught at) by a member of his own design team. E) There are a number of disadvantages with another opening in the fuselage and the ingress of moisture is only one of them. I hope this brings the debate back to a rational level. Please let me appologise upfront if I have hurt someone or destroyed previously held beliefs. Kind regards to all! Bernard -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [* mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net*aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of gstev...@bigpond.com Sent: Wednesday, 23 February 2011 9:18 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air vent Mike, I am deleting old emails. I came across this one of yours. Re rain ingress - you are an inventive sort of person -do you have any suggestions? I note you did not suggest anything at the time. Is it a problem, other than if the glider is tied down outside? Have you further considered the matter? If so what did you conclude? Has anybody else given the matter any thought? Gary - Original Message - From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air vent When we were discussing the DG Mandl extractor air vent some time ago I think I mentioned that the best location would be on top of the fuselage in the low pressure area. It seems either somebody saw that or had the same idea. Blending the vent tangentially to the rear was always a good idea and is commonly used in engine cooling. Nice touch to add the louvre. This looks far better than the relatively crude DG vent. Might want to organise something so rain doesn't get in though. *http://www.streckenflug.at/news/js_communication_2010_07.pdf*http://www.streckenflug.at/news/js_communication_2010_07.pdf Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air vent
Hi Bernard Firstly let me say that I have no credentials in glider design, so please take my comments on that basis. Clearly, with the vents open, there is a considerable inflow into the cockpit. That is only possible if an equal amount of air leaves the cockpit. So I am wondering, would it not be better if the outflow was managed? Perhaps it already is. Cheers Paul On 24 February 2011 13:35, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hello Gary, hello all I wasn't going to enter the debate but now I feel that it is about time to put the record straight. A) The Mandl air extractor is anything but new. Schleicher experimented with a similar device more than 20 years ago and so did Dick Buttler in the US. B) If my information is correct both parties have found that considerable drag is created where the (almost stationary) ventilation air is meeting the free airflow again. C) Statements such as *The size and geometry of the extractor lower the pressure * *level inside the cockpit to ambient levels and allow the ventilation air to * *seamlessly re-enter the external flow outside the fuselage*. can only be regarded as an attempt to mislead the gliding public. No air extractor known to mankind can accelerate the ventilation air without causing severe turbulence and hence create considerable aerodynamic penalties. D) If I remember correctly onother manufacturer has claimed that his air extractor improves the performance of his glider by 3 or even 4%. Claims like these are utter nonsense! They were even privately disputed (laught at) by a member of his own design team. E) There are a number of disadvantages with another opening in the fuselage and the ingress of moisture is only one of them. I hope this brings the debate back to a rational level. Please let me appologise upfront if I have hurt someone or destroyed previously held beliefs. Kind regards to all! Bernard -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [* mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net*aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of gstev...@bigpond.com Sent: Wednesday, 23 February 2011 9:18 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air vent Mike, I am deleting old emails. I came across this one of yours. Re rain ingress - you are an inventive sort of person -do you have any suggestions? I note you did not suggest anything at the time. Is it a problem, other than if the glider is tied down outside? Have you further considered the matter? If so what did you conclude? Has anybody else given the matter any thought? Gary - Original Message - From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air vent When we were discussing the DG Mandl extractor air vent some time ago I think I mentioned that the best location would be on top of the fuselage in the low pressure area. It seems either somebody saw that or had the same idea. Blending the vent tangentially to the rear was always a good idea and is commonly used in engine cooling. Nice touch to add the louvre. This looks far better than the relatively crude DG vent. Might want to organise something so rain doesn't get in though. *http://www.streckenflug.at/news/js_communication_2010_07.pdf*http://www.streckenflug.at/news/js_communication_2010_07.pdf Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: *www.borgeltinstruments.com* ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: *http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring*http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - *www.avg.com* Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3037 - Release Date: 07/30/10 04:34:00 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: *http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring*http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ipad
What's cool about these systems is that they give the teenager on the Clapham omnibus all the UAV look and kill abilities of someone in Langley Virginia but at a fraction of the cost. Cool? And yes I have considered all of your post. Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 2010 grand prix concept.
Nice video, but the alas the Earth is unlikely to be saved. I do not think that there is enough of those very clever people, typically airline captains to make difference :). Cheers Paul On 28 November 2010 13:00, mart m...@mca.nu wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KU5q1Nry6Y ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] How Big Are The Carbon Foot Prints?
Ooops, appologies to Tom, whod did not post a picture of a can full of worms and to Todd who did Cheers Paul On 24 September 2010 16:49, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 September 2010 16:02, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: An even better one before getting involved in the minutae of calculating a carbon footprint is: do we care and why? Well that is obvious, how do you expect the people producing those worms in a can Tom so thougtfully posted to survive, if none of us would care? Cheers Paul Mike At 12:45 PM 24/09/2010, you wrote: Slightly O.T. but there seems to be a range of opinion on this list. I am not for or against fossil versus alternative. I wish to look at balanced facts without hyperbole, drama and agenda. I am just sick of the spin from both big fuel and green energy. We have solar cells. We have wind turbines. We have electric cars. Now electric gliders. We have fossil fuels too (oil, coal, gas). Green or renewable energy is often touted as having a lower carbon foot print. But is that the local or global carbon foot print. How far does one look? How is this worked out? The minerals and raw materials for solar cells, wind turbines, Li Ion batteries need to be dug out of the ground. How much fossil fuel does that use to get it out of the ground? How much CO2 gets produced by mining the raw materials? How much CO2 gets produced in the manufacturing process? OK we can recycle, but how much energy gets used to do that? (i.e. driving the truck to pick up the old goods, the energy required to reprocess the material etc.). What is the carbon foot print of making a modern composite glider (considering that much of the material is petrochemical derived)? Having an elctric car is all well and good, but it needs to be plugged in to charge it up (and the electricity comes from a fossil fuel power stations). Wind turbines have a finite lifespan and need to be replaced. they are made from composite materials. So what is the carbon footprint of manufacturing the plastic to make them, the energy used to replace the turbine etc. I think it is great that alternative energy is being looked at. Is it better for the planet in the short term or long term. Is it locally 'carbon friendly' but creates a big carbon footprint elsewhere? (i.e. it is all well and good to have an eco friendly energy source, but bad if the manufacturing process digs up forests, produces toxins and belches out CO2 etc.). When all is taken into consideration, are newer 'Greener' energy sources actually any better than burning fossil fuel? Increasingly we are being asked to consider alternative energy, I wish to make informed choices. If people want to reply off list, that is fine by me. Where does one get a balanced and factual view? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] How Big Are The Carbon Foot Prints?
On 24 September 2010 16:02, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: An even better one before getting involved in the minutae of calculating a carbon footprint is: do we care and why? Well that is obvious, how do you expect the people producing those worms in a can Tom so thougtfully posted to survive, if none of us would care? Cheers Paul Mike At 12:45 PM 24/09/2010, you wrote: Slightly O.T. but there seems to be a range of opinion on this list. I am not for or against fossil versus alternative. I wish to look at balanced facts without hyperbole, drama and agenda. I am just sick of the spin from both big fuel and green energy. We have solar cells. We have wind turbines. We have electric cars. Now electric gliders. We have fossil fuels too (oil, coal, gas). Green or renewable energy is often touted as having a lower carbon foot print. But is that the local or global carbon foot print. How far does one look? How is this worked out? The minerals and raw materials for solar cells, wind turbines, Li Ion batteries need to be dug out of the ground. How much fossil fuel does that use to get it out of the ground? How much CO2 gets produced by mining the raw materials? How much CO2 gets produced in the manufacturing process? OK we can recycle, but how much energy gets used to do that? (i.e. driving the truck to pick up the old goods, the energy required to reprocess the material etc.). What is the carbon foot print of making a modern composite glider (considering that much of the material is petrochemical derived)? Having an elctric car is all well and good, but it needs to be plugged in to charge it up (and the electricity comes from a fossil fuel power stations). Wind turbines have a finite lifespan and need to be replaced. they are made from composite materials. So what is the carbon footprint of manufacturing the plastic to make them, the energy used to replace the turbine etc. I think it is great that alternative energy is being looked at. Is it better for the planet in the short term or long term. Is it locally 'carbon friendly' but creates a big carbon footprint elsewhere? (i.e. it is all well and good to have an eco friendly energy source, but bad if the manufacturing process digs up forests, produces toxins and belches out CO2 etc.). When all is taken into consideration, are newer 'Greener' energy sources actually any better than burning fossil fuel? Increasingly we are being asked to consider alternative energy, I wish to make informed choices. If people want to reply off list, that is fine by me. Where does one get a balanced and factual view? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Am I getting through?
Hi Paul Yes, you are getting through to the list and Robert's address is correct. Cheers Paul On 11 July 2010 09:39, Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au wrote: Hello Robert, I still don't know whether my emails re flexible solar panels have been getting to you. It would be a great pity, as they are very good and very cheap. If they are getting through, you're ignoring me. If they aren't, then this won't... oh, why do I bother? ATB Paul Mander ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Puchacz Flick rolls
Great video, but sadly the warning came too late. Giving an annual check to a club member we did allow the Puch to enter a spin, must have been lucky though, still here :). Cheers Paul On 18 April 2010 16:19, John Parncutt jparn...@bigpond.net.au wrote: WARNING the following video depicts a Puchacz in other than straight and level flight. Concerned members of this group can be rest assured that at NO stage during this flight was the Puchacz allowed to enter a spin which we all know from previous discussions on this group could have been catastrophic. (We let it do just about everything else though) J I hope you enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLJvQh0duLM Cheers, John *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *tom claffey *Sent:* Saturday, 17 April 2010 7:11 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle On the Puch plackard : half roll-half loop actually refers to a half flick [to inverted] then a pull through [half loop]. If done too fast you may full flick. It is a fine manoeuvre, Kerrie loves them!! We learnt to do them in Poland in an 11000hr Puch! Tom --- On *Thu, 15/4/10, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au* wrote: From: Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Received: Thursday, 15 April, 2010, 8:04 PM A flick roll executed well can generate quite a high but instantaneous G loading. Executed poorly it can put a considerable amount of stress on an airframe. The higher the entry speed the greater the amount of G and resulting stress on the airframe. I think that is what Morgan was referring to, he initiated his Puchacz flick at a higher than recommended airspeed and thus stressed the airframe more than intended. ROSS *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul Bart *Sent:* Thursday, 15 April 2010 5:19 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I am interested in the statement **all** of the white tape had split . I had the dubious pleasure :) to be shown the flick roll by Shane McCafrey who's ability as well as opinions on maters related to gliding I respect. I do not recall huge g-forces during the maneuver at all. I am pretty sure that Shane mentioned that as the aircraft was stalled, the forces were not great. Cheers Paul On 15 April 2010 16:37, Morgan *discu...@sandercock.com*http://nz.mc1142.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=discu...@sandercock.com wrote: It’s too easy to judge Puchacz based on reports like “5 similar spinning accidents.” They were not all similar. The one that I read contained some rather graphic description of the dead instructor’s fingers bloodied from trying to grasp the broken rudder cable. They do have a maintenance kit out (not an AD) which addresses this issue. Both of our club Puchacz had this modification done as soon as we could get out hands on the kit. In my view as a Form 2 inspector it significantly improves a mechanical detail which looked “wrong” and could easily lead to accidents like the one I read where the rudder cable had obviously broken before impact and made it impossible to get out of the spin. And the type is rated for flick rolls, under some very restrictive weight-and-balance limitations (pilot weight between 65 and 69kg on one of ours.) It is a very impressive manoeuvre, particularly for the know-it-all hotshot who has no idea how you suddenly entered a full spin from 54 knots straight-and-level. It is also rather humbling for the instructor who thought 56 knots was good enough and found that **all** of the white tape had split. (That was me.) - Morgan Sandercock *From:* *aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net*http://nz.mc1142.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net[mailto: *aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net*http://nz.mc1142.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *james crowhurst *Sent:* Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:48 AM *To:* aus soaring *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Peter, Puchacz's have had a bad rap lately, particularly on a British glider web-chat thing. There they say that the glider is unpredictable and spins too readily, sometimes unrecoverable and it has killed people as a result. I have many hours on this type and have in my time 'rung the sh*t out of them'. I have always found the type pleasant and does exaclty what you want it to. Spin direction reversals
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle
I am interested in the statement **all** of the white tape had split . I had the dubious pleasure :) to be shown the flick roll by Shane McCafrey who's ability as well as opinions on maters related to gliding I respect. I do not recall huge g-forces during the maneuver at all. I am pretty sure that Shane mentioned that as the aircraft was stalled, the forces were not great. Cheers Paul On 15 April 2010 16:37, Morgan discu...@sandercock.com wrote: It’s too easy to judge Puchacz based on reports like “5 similar spinning accidents.” They were not all similar. The one that I read contained some rather graphic description of the dead instructor’s fingers bloodied from trying to grasp the broken rudder cable. They do have a maintenance kit out (not an AD) which addresses this issue. Both of our club Puchacz had this modification done as soon as we could get out hands on the kit. In my view as a Form 2 inspector it significantly improves a mechanical detail which looked “wrong” and could easily lead to accidents like the one I read where the rudder cable had obviously broken before impact and made it impossible to get out of the spin. And the type is rated for flick rolls, under some very restrictive weight-and-balance limitations (pilot weight between 65 and 69kg on one of ours.) It is a very impressive manoeuvre, particularly for the know-it-all hotshot who has no idea how you suddenly entered a full spin from 54 knots straight-and-level. It is also rather humbling for the instructor who thought 56 knots was good enough and found that **all** of the white tape had split. (That was me.) - Morgan Sandercock *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *james crowhurst *Sent:* Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:48 AM *To:* aus soaring *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Peter, Puchacz's have had a bad rap lately, particularly on a British glider web-chat thing. There they say that the glider is unpredictable and spins too readily, sometimes unrecoverable and it has killed people as a result. I have many hours on this type and have in my time 'rung the sh*t out of them'. I have always found the type pleasant and does exaclty what you want it to. Spin direction reversals are particularly well demonstrated on this type, as are stall turns (big rudder). You can flick roll them too (not that i would do that myself in a type not rated for it). I don't tend to do this stuff much anymore, much more fun to blast in off X-country. However, when you're bored in the middle of winter in the UK doing sled rides, it makes the day more interesting. Thats all. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:36:08 +0800 From: p...@exadios.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Hi; On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, james crowhurst wrote: I'm concerned that it was dangerously boring. But then again, you wouldn't want to do a turn or a turn reversal in a Puchacz.it'll spin and kill you! What do you mean? Nice camera angle though! Aeros would be good using that mount. Jim From: oz...@bigpond.net.au To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 06:35:33 +1000 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I am concerned that lookout appears to have been inadequate, especially to the right hand side. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Sean Jorgensen-Day Sent: 11 April 2010 11:05 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle If you are going to criticise be specific about the issues. What are the issues you are worried about? Explain them. If you do not explain the mere mortals in the real world are not able to learn. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Roger Browne Sent: Sunday, 11 April 2010 10:14 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Agreed. Roger Browne From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Dave Donald Sent: 11 April 2010 8:56 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I'm just curious about what type of check flight this was? They can have various flavours, but I've got some serious issues about this one, even at the most basic level. Dave From: John Parncutt
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle
Without any reald world knowledge on my part, I thought the flight software would not allow you to do it anyway (based on what I read) Cheers Paul On 16 April 2010 11:47, DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com wrote: If you do the same thing on an Airbus, the vertical tail snaps off completely. Is this just one of those Airbus bashing stories or has someone proved it ? :-) On 15/04/2010, Morgan discu...@sandercock.com wrote: The flick roll is a low-G manoeuvre measured by the G-meter but it is extremely harsh on the aircraft. Basically you twist the fuselage one way while the wing wants to go the other way. It's like having a person pushing the plane by the wingtips. That's why the entry speed is so critical. If you go too fast the rudder alone is capable of overstressing the wing attachment. If you do the same thing on an Airbus, the vertical tail snaps off completely. - Morgan Sandercock From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Bart Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2010 5:19 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I am interested in the statement *all* of the white tape had split . I had the dubious pleasure :) to be shown the flick roll by Shane McCafrey who's ability as well as opinions on maters related to gliding I respect. I do not recall huge g-forces during the maneuver at all. I am pretty sure that Shane mentioned that as the aircraft was stalled, the forces were not great. Cheers Paul On 15 April 2010 16:37, Morgan discu...@sandercock.com wrote: It's too easy to judge Puchacz based on reports like 5 similar spinning accidents. They were not all similar. The one that I read contained some rather graphic description of the dead instructor's fingers bloodied from trying to grasp the broken rudder cable. They do have a maintenance kit out (not an AD) which addresses this issue. Both of our club Puchacz had this modification done as soon as we could get out hands on the kit. In my view as a Form 2 inspector it significantly improves a mechanical detail which looked wrong and could easily lead to accidents like the one I read where the rudder cable had obviously broken before impact and made it impossible to get out of the spin. And the type is rated for flick rolls, under some very restrictive weight-and-balance limitations (pilot weight between 65 and 69kg on one of ours.) It is a very impressive manoeuvre, particularly for the know-it-all hotshot who has no idea how you suddenly entered a full spin from 54 knots straight-and-level. It is also rather humbling for the instructor who thought 56 knots was good enough and found that *all* of the white tape had split. (That was me.) - Morgan Sandercock From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of james crowhurst Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2010 11:48 AM To: aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Peter, Puchacz's have had a bad rap lately, particularly on a British glider web-chat thing. There they say that the glider is unpredictable and spins too readily, sometimes unrecoverable and it has killed people as a result. I have many hours on this type and have in my time 'rung the sh*t out of them'. I have always found the type pleasant and does exaclty what you want it to. Spin direction reversals are particularly well demonstrated on this type, as are stall turns (big rudder). You can flick roll them too (not that i would do that myself in a type not rated for it). I don't tend to do this stuff much anymore, much more fun to blast in off X-country. However, when you're bored in the middle of winter in the UK doing sled rides, it makes the day more interesting. Thats all. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:36:08 +0800 From: p...@exadios.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Hi; On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, james crowhurst wrote: I'm concerned that it was dangerously boring. But then again, you wouldn't want to do a turn or a turn reversal in a Puchacz.it'll spin and kill you! What do you mean? Nice camera angle though! Aeros would be good using that mount. Jim From: oz...@bigpond.net.au To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 06:35:33 +1000 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I am concerned that lookout appears to have been inadequate, especially to the right hand side. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle
H, yes I found it interesting as well, good job there was no threat on right Cheers Paul On 11 April 2010 20:55, Dave Donald icans...@y7mail.com wrote: I'm just curious about what type of check flight this was? They can have various flavours, but I've got some serious issues about this one, even at the most basic level. Dave -- *From:* John Parncutt jparn...@bigpond.net.au *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Sun, 11 April, 2010 7:42:10 PM *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Hi, For those interested here’s my most recent video taken at Bacchus Marsh on Saturday. Matthew Milsom in the front seat having a check flight with Alan Payne our CFI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu0fbph5-Aw Cheers, John ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stall warning on gliders Re: NZ Accident Investigation
On 12 April 2010 11:49, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: Or - just DON'T stall! Auto anythings can fail! [Airbus Pilot] Does that mean that you are very, very brave to fly the thing:) ??? If I remember correctly another airbus pilot told me that one is actually not flying it, just telling where to go, it then figures out the rest. Or are you just relying on MTBF? Cheers Paul Tom --- On *Sun, 11/4/10, DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com* wrote: From: DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Stall warning on gliders Re: NZ Accident Investigation To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Received: Sunday, 11 April, 2010, 11:02 AM So you think we need an instrument on the panel that demonstrates the aft position of the stick (the angle of attack adjuster)? You mean like a red light or a stall warning sound? Stink wings have mechanical stall warning sensors on usually only one wing, about mid wing. Gliders would have to have one on each wing as a spin is when one wing stalls first. I think something like that would annoy glider pilots as we fly so near the stall in narrow thermals and the mechanical stall warning sensors that I have seen on stink wings activate with the buffeting in rough air. DG gliders have a stall warning device build into the DEI (which I guess means that they are stink wings.) This gives an loud audible stall warning and optionally you can have a stick shaker fitted. The device appears to be accurate irrespective of bank angle or whether the aircraft is under power or not. If you look at the DG site, there are comments from heroic glider pilots about how a stall warning is unnecessary and if you need one you should not be flying gliders. However, I have found the one in the DG very useful and accurate. I am not entirely sure how it works, but there's a tiny probe fitted about 300mm back from the nose, on the underside of the fuselage. You can adjust the settings on the DEI so the warning goes off at some value close enough to the stall that you think acceptable. It certainly works, even when banked well over. It's interesting to realise how close to the stall we fly in thermals and you soon get attuned to the thing going off with a loud beep when you put the glider into a certain attitude. However getting close to the stall when thermalling at altitude isn't necessarily the same thing as rapidly entering a stall at low altitude, especially with some slip or skid when the warning might go off at about the same time as the stall got serious. Modern gliders are fantastically benign about the stall and it's possible we get lulled into a false sense of security because we don't expect anything to come up and bite us when flying like this. The stall warning is good for pointing out how close you are to the stall when the aircraft isn't giving any more feedback than normal. BR D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.nethttp://mc/compose?to=aus-soar...@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] NZ Accident Investigation
On 10 April 2010 12:02, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: I think the problem is caused by not thinking far enough ahead and getting caught with no (good) options and failure to prioritise the tasks at hand. It is called judgment training and there are attempts to put teaching this on a firm, systematic basis but I won't hold my breath expecting any efforts in this direction, let alone any successful ones, from the GFA. Mike do you think judgment training is possible at all in gliding context. irrespective who does it? It may be possible in intensive training situations like airlines, air force etc, perhaps it could come into play with some intensely dedicated glider pilots, but for the rest I am not sure. Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
