Re: [Aus-soaring] Polars for Arcus and duo Discus
thank you others, Great! Ron On 3 August 2015 at 10:08, Jarek Mosiejewski jar...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Hi, Try the manual on Geelong GC website, not a best copy, but the polar is quite legible: http://ggc.org.au/index.php/documents-and-forms/aircraft/flight-manuals (search for polar or page 44). Regards Jarek - Original Message - From: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc: Sent: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 09:59:38 +1000 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Polars for Arcus and duo Discus The Duo manual has a polar allegedly the result of an Idaflieg meeting. My copy of the page says 19xx. It isn't a very good copy. Mike At 08:30 PM 2/08/2015, you wrote: Does anyone know where I can get credible polars curve data for the Duo Discus and the Arcus? Not points, the curve. thanks  ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978* www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia -- Email sent using Optus Webmail ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Polars for Arcus and duo Discus
Dear Alan not the info that i am after. thanks On 3 August 2015 at 09:13, Alan Wilson a...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Ron, You could download several flights from the OLC and do SeeU analysis and note speed and realized L/D. With luck you could also get similar/same flights on the same day if you find any competition flights? Then you could summarise your findings on this forum? Alan *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ron Sanders *Sent:* Sunday, 02 August, 2015 8:30 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Polars for Arcus and duo Discus Does anyone know where I can get credible polars curve data for the Duo Discus and the Arcus? Not points, the curve. thanks ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Polars for Arcus and duo Discus
Does anyone know where I can get credible polars curve data for the Duo Discus and the Arcus? Not points, the curve. thanks ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Telephone numbers
Can any one give me a phone number for Bruce Taylor or Anita please?? ron Sanders ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats
yes mike but still a long way from anywhere and you know i grew up there! But i have not actually left yet, but i guess it will be soon. Ron On 5 May 2015 at 18:14, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Hmmm Perth is a nice clean modern city that has had lots of money spent on it in the last decade. Excellent roads and public transport. Great river for sailing, the best beaches in Australia and you only need to drive 130km to Beverley to go gliding cross country instead of the 200+ just about anywhere else but Adelaide. I spent 5 years in Melbourne in 1971.:-) Mike 12:10 PM 5/05/2015, you wrote: You bloody betcha  given that i am now based in MELBOURNE !!  i feel alive!  back in the land of the living rather than being isolated in Perth!!! On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi Ron Apparently there was some discussion about holding the comps at another venue. That didn't proceed so now NGC is seeking Sports committee ratification to hold them at Narromine in February. Will you come this time? Cheers, ROSS  From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats  Just wondering why this competition is not listed in GlidingAustralia.org in the calendar?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats
You bloody betcha given that i am now based in MELBOURNE !! i feel alive! back in the land of the living rather than being isolated in Perth!!! On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi Ron Apparently there was some discussion about holding the comps at another venue. That didn't proceed so now NGC is seeking Sports committee ratification to hold them at Narromine in February. Will you come this time? Cheers, ROSS *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ron Sanders *Sent:* Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:57 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats Just wondering why this competition is not listed in GlidingAustralia.org in the calendar?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats
Just wondering why this competition is not listed in GlidingAustralia.org in the calendar?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Obtaining a CASA Glider Pilot License on the way to an FAA Glider Pilot's License
I think I remember someone saying that ICAO could probably object that a license that does not allow one to fly gliders in the country of issue of that license, is not a license!!! Wonderful!! On 18 April 2015 at 16:48, Jenny Ganderton jennygander...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi Simon, Here is my story I am not as persistent as you - I just gave up. I have a PPL as well as a GPC (which I have had for about 5 years - I was an early adopter!) so at my last BFR, on 26 February, when my PPL was to be converted to a Part 61 License, I thought why not get GPL added to it at the same time. I thought it would be easy!! I already had the GFA letter and sent it off to CASA with all the other stuff. Oh and I had to prove that I could speak English too - you didn't mention that step! On 16 April I received my new part 61 CASA licence, and a heap more paperwork before I could get the GPL including a request for certified copies of my log book showing at least 20 glider launches. Doesn't seem many to prove gliding proficiency does it, but at least they will be certified. I got lost in all the requirements in the paperwork, but found myself when I got to the one that asked for $50 - Oh and I think there was a requirement for an ASIC as well (another $220) so I just decided that I didn't really need a GPL after all. If is that difficult to get when you already have a CASA license, how much more difficult for anybody that doesn't? Still I suppose that we are doing all the CASA beaurocrats and Lawyers a service by keeping them in work. BR Jenny At 17 Apr 2015 17:44:14, Simon Hackett'si...@base64.com.au' wrote: Some months ago, I asked some questions here on this list about how to get a “Glider Pilot Certificate” on the way to getting a CASA “Glider Pilot License”. I got a variety of helpful responses directly and indirectly, along with a few folks basically wishing me luck !! Well, I actually did manage to do it in the end - it took months, but the CASA GPL turned up in the mail today (as an endorsement on my Part 61 license). For those of you who either want to do the same thing, or for those who are simply masochists, I’ve just spent some happy time today writing down the journey so far. I’ve done that mostly in the hope that others may find it helpful to make their own (similar) journey easier, if they should wish to undertake that journey themselves in the future. Here it is: http://simonhackett.com/2015/04/17/australian-to-usa-glider-pilot-license/ Cheers, Simon ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Obtaining a CASA Glider Pilot License on the way to an FAA Glider Pilot's License
Mate i would rather do it the way i did. Take a holiday at St Auban, practice a few circuit type radio calls EN FRANCAIS, do a fliht test and Voila!! here is your French glider pilots ICAO compliant LICENSE, with photo etc etc. The yanks will recognise that, In the mean time good flying, beautiful scenery, good food good wine, what a comparison!! Ron On 17 April 2015 at 17:44, Simon Hackett si...@base64.com.au wrote: Some months ago, I asked some questions here on this list about how to get a “Glider Pilot Certificate” on the way to getting a CASA “Glider Pilot License”. I got a variety of helpful responses directly and indirectly, along with a few folks basically wishing me luck !! Well, I actually did manage to do it in the end - it took months, but the CASA GPL turned up in the mail today (as an endorsement on my Part 61 license). For those of you who either want to do the same thing, or for those who are simply masochists, I’ve just spent some happy time today writing down the journey so far. I’ve done that mostly in the hope that others may find it helpful to make their own (similar) journey easier, if they should wish to undertake that journey themselves in the future. Here it is: http://simonhackett.com/2015/04/17/australian-to-usa-glider-pilot-license/ Cheers, Simon ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] V3
I would really like to hear from Schempp as to why it is gonna be better than a JS1 or an ASG 29, ie we did this to the wing section, we did this to the fuse wing junction position etc etc. In the begining the Jonkers boys were fairly free with their thoughts as to how to improve things and they did just that!!! The V3 will have to be some glider to beat those two. ron On 15 April 2015 at 18:36, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: The wings look swept back in that photo. Maybe a bit more sweep and they could eliminate the tail! On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Looks a lot like a smaller Quintus wing. I wonder if the winglets and tips are the same? Or scaled 0.8 ? Mike At 08:27 AM 15/04/2015, you wrote: H301's got nothing on the Cirrus, Dutters... Nothing. A more revealing picture... [image: []] On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:14Â James Dutschke james.m.dutsc...@gmail.com wrote: None. Other than it's a likely contender for 2nd best looking glider of all time (behind the h301). Pic came up on the SH Facebook page a couple hours ago. Sent from my iPhone On 14 Apr 2015, at 22:38, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Do you have any details? Gary -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of James Dutschke Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2015 10:07 PM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] V3 Sent from my iPhone ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Content-Type: image/jpeg; name=549426_832349810182242_633767653646720690_n.jpg Content-Disposition: inline; filename=549426_832349810182242_633767653646720690_n.jpg Content-ID: 14cba0c867aa2469d251 X-Attachment-Id: 14cba0c867aa2469d251 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bill Walker and David Speight
The accident occurred in Namibia did it not?? Does any one have a link to the ATSB of Namibia?? Ron On 9 March 2015 at 06:30, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Not only that one but there have been a couple of other large high performance two seater accidents for what appeared to be no good reason. Is it something to do with the two seat bit? Mike At 09:28 PM 8/03/2015, you wrote: Guys, it is probably too soon just now but i really would like to see or find an accident report wherein the reason for the demise of these two very very experienced pilots is stated. They were flying a modern glider. We never seem to hear what actually happened in a lot of accidents. I want to know so that i Can continue flying but be and OLD pilot , not BOLD. I want make sure I don't do what they did. Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring *Borgelt Instruments* - *design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Bill Walker and David Speight
Guys, it is probably too soon just now but i really would like to see or find an accident report wherein the reason for the demise of these two very very experienced pilots is stated. They were flying a modern glider. We never seem to hear what actually happened in a lot of accidents. I want to know so that i Can continue flying but be and OLD pilot , not BOLD. I want make sure I don't do what they did. Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Avier, oudie,vertica stuff
Well funny stuff this, The vertica has been going more than fours and the battery says it is at 41%. Ron On 2 March 2015 at 16:28, Rod Merigan rmerig...@bigpond.com wrote: No 2.5 hrs is about right, the latest Oudie has a far larger battery than the Vertica/Avier *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ron Sanders *Sent:* Monday, 2 March 2015 3:25 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Avier, oudie,vertica stuff Guys, I am running a moving map ap (LK8000) on an Avier device. I am only getting 2.5 hours out of a battery. I remember reading sometime back when i had the paper work that i should get 12 or more out of the internal battery. Is this right?? Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Avier, oudie,vertica stuff
As i said all very interesting the Vertica that i bought of Mike before the Avier has now been running for 6 hours and is down to 16%! I plug my units into the main batteries normally of course but i was just interested to see for how long after some kind of electrical problem i would still have a moving map. I am of course old school enough to wave my WAC chart around in order to still have a moving map, so no smart replies please! Ron On 2 March 2015 at 19:18, Jenny Ganderton jennygander...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: No way, 2.5 hours is really good for an Avier. I always plug mine into the main Glider battery via a 12v to 5v usb converter. BR Jenny -- *From*:Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com *Date*:Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 18:28 *Subject*:[Aus-soaring] Avier, oudie,vertica stuff Guys, I am running a moving map ap (LK8000) on an Avier device. I am only getting 2.5 hours out of a battery. I remember reading sometime back when i had the paper work that i should get 12 or more out of the internal battery. Is this right?? Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Avier, oudie,vertica stuff
Guys, I am running a moving map ap (LK8000) on an Avier device. I am only getting 2.5 hours out of a battery. I remember reading sometime back when i had the paper work that i should get 12 or more out of the internal battery. Is this right?? Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] next two seater nationals
Anybody tell me where and when the next two-seater Nats are?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
Didnt Paul Mander win?? Ron On 29 January 2015 at 17:24, Tom Jane Gilbert tnjgilb...@internode.on.net wrote: Congratulations to Peter Temple and crew who flew the Adelaide Soaring Club’s DG-1000S to first place in the recently completed Two Seater Nationals at Narromine. Well done guys! http://soaringspot.com/austwoseat2015/results/double-seater/total/day7.html ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ABC report benalla accident.
I hope we find out very soon what happened. Ron On 2 Jan 2015, at 5:25 pm, opsw...@bigpond.net.au opsw...@bigpond.net.au wrote: not good http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-02/person-killed-in-gliding-accident-in-vic-chesney-vale/5997616 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Santa's difficulties
toe the line On 27 December 2014 at 07:18, Brian Bailey bbai...@westnet.com.au wrote: Hi James Santa was still distressed about this issue when he arrived at my place. Good news though! Budgetary constraints have been swept aside and Cold Weather Gear is being added to the CASA closet (this has been welcomed by CASA smokers who will be allowed use of the CWG on their excursions to the bleak Canberrian streets). The CWG will allow Flight Reviewers to give a full flight review in an open cockpit in the European winter (no more Zeppelins required). A white paper has also been produced with a range of strategic options to encourage Donner and Blitzen to tow the line. CASA are now determined to check Santa's asymmetric procedures (as required with multi reindeer operations) and accordingly the Flight Reviewer will be AK47 equipped. Cheers Brian -- I consulted Santa on the spin characteristics of a sleigh during his visit last night. We spoke at length and he cited one example where donner and blitzen weren't pulling their weight. This combined with the large payload he was carrying (must have been early in the night), and some slack loading by the elves led to a rearward c of g, asymmetric loading and asymmetric thrust. In the resulting spin he fell back on his training conducted during his annual currency flight conducted in the European summer. As reindeer are unavailable during summer the only substitutes available are horses. And as horses are not endorsed for pulling the sleigh under the new CASA part 61 regulations, he was forced to have the horses draw a suitable replacement. A 1932 zeppelin. Kindest regards and merry drawing rapidly to a close, Christmas. Sent from my iPhone ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Spin training
Bernard, good morning, i would lke o read that report too please? Ron On 27 December 2014 at 08:18, Bernhard ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hello Paul, good morning all You might be interested to know that the US Air Force has already been using the ASK21 for spin training over several decades. Therefore you might want to refer to a report by the US Air Force on the spin characteristics of the ASK 21. It was done by experts in the field and true professionals. When you read the report you will find that it was perhaps the most comprehensive study into the subject ever done. To save you digging around I have attached a copy for you! Kind regards to all Bernard On 26 Dec 2014, at 10:05 pm, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 December 2014 at 19:33, Daryl Mackay darylmac...@gmail.com wrote: Suffice to say no instructor willingly uses the ASK21 for spin awareness training at Beverley. Hi Daryl Would you mind explaining why? This is a genuine inquiry as my club is about to take a delivery of one. Cheers Paul Cheers Paul ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Digital altimeters
Anyone know of these other than MGL products? With QNH setting and half the size of the MGL product?? Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Digital altimeters
` On 11 December 2014 at 19:16, John Orton johno...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ron, I have been using a Microtim http://www.microtim.com but don't tell everyone. Regards, John Orton On 11/12/2014 8:20 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know of these other than MGL products? With QNH setting and half the size of the MGL product?? Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Digital altimeters
just what i have been after John! How long have you had it? have you ever had it calibrated in a lab? rgds ron On 11 December 2014 at 19:16, John Orton johno...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ron, I have been using a Microtim http://www.microtim.com but don't tell everyone. Regards, John Orton On 11/12/2014 8:20 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone know of these other than MGL products? With QNH setting and half the size of the MGL product?? Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] date problem - older loggers
Regards how widespread this is Pam i do not know but i have two volksloggers that tell me it is 1995. ron S On 29 November 2014 at 16:11, pam p...@kurstjens.com wrote: Please be aware that some older Flight Recorders have a problem with the DATE – they think it is 1995. This is coming from the older Garmin engines in some FRs- so far Cambridge 20, 25, older 302s, Volksloggers, Zander models have been identified. Ask the agent for your FR if they can fix the problem. Ian Macphee can fix Cambridge untis – call him. Here is something from a recent thread on Aus-Soaring: Ian Mc Phee Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:49:51 -0800 All the model 20 Cambridge camera box loggers have this garmin gps 25 engine as well as early aluminium case 302 vario (not the newer black case ones). Many now are displaying this March 1995 date yet are still acquiring satellites navigating which I find strange. At this stage I am replacing 302s with a garmin GPS15 engine which is smaller but with adapter fits. I can replace the GPS25 battery and then reset the clock (adding UTC time and lat and long approx maybe they will kick start again) but is a real pain. Anyhow if you have a Cambridge mod 20 or non black case 302 then check date and if 1995 you WILL have issues. I ask the question how many electronic items do you have 20 years old? Not many I suspect. The model 10 brick box is over 20 yrs old and most model 20 loggers are over 15 years old. So maybe upgrade time is coming and remember all vario makers have made significant improvements in varios over the years. Ian Mcphee You will need to send the Volkslogger to some-one who can reset the memory inside the GPS and at the same time replace the internal battery or upgrade to a new logger. See post from several years ago from on Aus-Soaring. I found this post which indicates that the engine is a Garmin GPS25. Just to wrap things up, this problem has beep traced to the Garmin GPS Engine. The GPS25 engine has a battery which maintains some memory and also runs the Real Time Clock when the device is not in use, recharging during normal operation. When the GPS25 battery is low (which happens more often the older the logger is), memory in the GPS engine sometimes gets partially corrupted, in a way that the GPS is not able to detect. Therefore, the GPS thinks it is 1,024 weeks (about 19.6 years) before present date. The solution is to replace the GPS battery (in order to reduce the probability of a re-occurrence), and reset the memory inside the GPS so that it knows in which 19.6 year epoch it is. This is not something the user can do. It has nothing to do with the Volkslogger Internal Battery, but it is perhaps worth thinking about taking the opportunity of replacing it during the repair. Sounds like the GPS date rollover problem affecting older GPS units, where the date wraps around every 1024 weeks. Here, 8 Nov 2014 minus 1024 weeks is 25 March 1995. The problem should have first appeared on 21 August 1999. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_formatting_and_storage_bugs ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] date problem - older loggers
you know guys, I understand all of the update now etc and perhaps we have to do so because of the interconnection of all things now with satellites internet etc etc but I still have a more than 30 year old transisior radio (AmFm, swtichable between 9 hz and 10 hz spacing) that I have taken all around the world over the last 30 years! 6 inches by 1.5 by 3.5. It still works and i still use it - cant see why I wont be using it in another 20 years. I really hate this age of consumerism. and the above is of course irrelevant. ron On 1 December 2014 at 05:40, Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net wrote: Hi all, Although typically this can be resolved by replacement of the internal battery (and then keeping it charged), the reality is that this will be an ongoing and random problem - because the failure occurs after the internal battery fails or is allowed to run flat. It is possible that the IGC Sporting Code will be amended to allow this date change to be accepted for some levels of validation, though I doubt it would be changed sufficiently to allow the validation of a record claim, and changes do take some time. However, the bottom line is that it is really time to consider an upgrade. I don't think anyone can expect an item of electronic equipment to last for ever, and these have lasted far longer than most. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 1/12/2014 1:17 AM, Ron Sanders wrote: Regards how widespread this is Pam i do not know but i have two volksloggers that tell me it is 1995. ron S On 29 November 2014 at 16:11, pam p...@kurstjens.com wrote: Please be aware that some older Flight Recorders have a problem with the DATE – they think it is 1995. This is coming from the older Garmin engines in some FRs- so far Cambridge 20, 25, older 302s, Volksloggers, Zander models have been identified. Ask the agent for your FR if they can fix the problem. Ian Macphee can fix Cambridge untis – call him. Here is something from a recent thread on Aus-Soaring: Ian Mc Phee Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:49:51 -0800 All the model 20 Cambridge camera box loggers have this garmin gps 25 engine as well as early aluminium case 302 vario (not the newer black case ones). Many now are displaying this March 1995 date yet are still acquiring satellites navigating which I find strange. At this stage I am replacing 302s with a garmin GPS15 engine which is smaller but with adapter fits. I can replace the GPS25 battery and then reset the clock (adding UTC time and lat and long approx maybe they will kick start again) but is a real pain. Anyhow if you have a Cambridge mod 20 or non black case 302 then check date and if 1995 you WILL have issues. I ask the question how many electronic items do you have 20 years old? Not many I suspect. The model 10 brick box is over 20 yrs old and most model 20 loggers are over 15 years old. So maybe upgrade time is coming and remember all vario makers have made significant improvements in varios over the years. Ian Mcphee You will need to send the Volkslogger to some-one who can reset the memory inside the GPS and at the same time replace the internal battery or upgrade to a new logger. See post from several years ago from on Aus-Soaring. I found this post which indicates that the engine is a Garmin GPS25. Just to wrap things up, this problem has beep traced to the Garmin GPS Engine. The GPS25 engine has a battery which maintains some memory and also runs the Real Time Clock when the device is not in use, recharging during normal operation. When the GPS25 battery is low (which happens more often the older the logger is), memory in the GPS engine sometimes gets partially corrupted, in a way that the GPS is not able to detect. Therefore, the GPS thinks it is 1,024 weeks (about 19.6 years) before present date. The solution is to replace the GPS battery (in order to reduce the probability of a re-occurrence), and reset the memory inside the GPS so that it knows in which 19.6 year epoch it is. This is not something the user can do. It has nothing to do with the Volkslogger Internal Battery, but it is perhaps worth thinking about taking the opportunity of replacing it during the repair. Sounds like the GPS date rollover problem affecting older GPS units, where the date wraps around every 1024 weeks. Here, 8 Nov 2014 minus 1024 weeks is 25 March 1995. The problem should have first appeared on 21 August 1999. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_formatting_and_storage_bugs ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription
[Aus-soaring] Volksloggers
Can anyone tell me why my volksloger reckons yesterday was the 25th march 1995?? Oh i wish it was indeed!! ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Volksloggers
Perhaps On 9 November 2014 18:53, Simon Rammelt monkeypaws...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/11/2014 6:26 PM, Ron Sanders wrote: Can anyone tell me why my volksloger reckons yesterday was the 25th march 1995?? Oh i wish it was indeed!! ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Probably getting old an with alzheimer's just like the rest of us -- Simon Rammelt 788 Cushnie Road Cushnie, Qld 4608 040 773 5433 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Geoff Brown
Anybody know Air Marshall Geoff's private email address. Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] flying near the ground during finishes
In 1987 I was at Benalla crewing for a Danish pilot who had hired my ASW20B for the event. Naturally enough people were in the practise days preceding the comp doing just that, practising. Some were even practising worm-burners and getting down very low in ground effect not having surveyed the area in which they would be doing Worm Burners or in any other way looked at the area. A Frenchman called Eric Sideau hit a power line leading to a house more than one km from the then finish line --- crashed, killed himself, started a big fire and everyone said what a tragedy. I, for once kept my counsel but thought to myself FMBD, what the hell was he doing there?? The comp had not even started. And so it goes on. Benalla, Narromine, Goodiwndi, where next?? Ron S ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
So now we know. Thanks Gary. Why the reluctance for thisinformation to be on the net out in the open?? Is it because he crashed and then became champion?? not the first ime this has happened, Years ago Andy Pybus crossed the finish line at Gawler but did not land on the airfield; but I guess the difference is that he did not crash. And yes Gary we all could easily get into this situation and especially at Gawler with the sea breeze and its vagaries, so I guess if a guy wants to win so much he crashes his plane it is up to him. Pity about our insurance premiums, which raises a couple of points about choice doesnt it??? but again why has this been so hush hush?? Rgds Ron S On 23 October 2014 19:30, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi Mike, As no one else has responded to your quite reasonable query, let me inform you that Jim Crowhurst did indeed do just that. Details, regarding how it happened, and damage sustained to the glider are sketchy, so I suggest that you wait for the official report. I am pleased to say that Jim did not appear to be physically injured at all – a VERY lucky man indeed! He was at the wind up dinner, where he was awarded the Club Class Champion trophy, as reported in the local press article. If you have a look at Jim’s trace, available on Soaring Spot, I think you will be able to very clearly see the scenario. Club Class flies dry, and there was about a 20 kt headwind component on his final glide. Jim crashed within the 3 km finish circle, and therefore got both speed and distance points for the day. In accordance with the rules, Jim did not incur a points penalty for crashing. I will make one comment – DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THINK THAT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN TO YOU. The history of gliding is full of reports of EXPERT pilots who fucked-up and ended up very dead! BEWARE, and be aware. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Thursday, 23 October 2014 10:10 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press So did someone hit a power line? Mike At 06:28 PM 22/10/2014, you wrote: This is a bit comical. https://www.google.com/url?rct=jsa=turl=http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.au/story/2642553/amazing-escape/%3Fcs%3D1451ct=gacd=CAEYACoUMTE4NTMyMzQ5OTQ2Mjc4ODEyMDAyHTZiNzMyZjY2MmIzY2FiM2U6Y29tLmF1OmVuOkFVusg=AFQjCNGOkDYHpvkZarjgCVD_905ZY7SSHA ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Cockpit signage
Anybody got any good suggestions for labeling cockpit switches, eg MASTER, BAT 1, BAT 2 ON OFF ETC??? RON ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 35
The lack of confidentiality might just cause those who wish to even think about intimidation and harassment to think twice before they embark on that path! Ron On 3 September 2014 13:35, Richard Frawley rjfraw...@gmail.com wrote: I think you can appreciate the confidentially that is required for these things to work. If you have an issue, then I suggest you speak to the EO. I personally have experienced unwarranted bias and poor treatment and had I known about MP at the time, I would have invoked it as I have now seen the situation repeated. Richard At 01:14 AM 3/09/2014, you wrote: Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 32 (Ron Sanders) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 13:14:04 +0800 From: Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 32 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: CAPs+aLyWF=gevnjaxlntsye0mdspfhoe1nngpnjrfhjjlvj...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Perhaps we could hear about these positive results please?? Ron On 3 September 2014 13:05, Richard Frawley rjfraw...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, Membership Protection exists as a process in the GFA for good reason. I have witnessed positive results. If you have a grievance or feel you have been treated unfairly, please raise it to the EO, it will be investigated. I have this suspicion that not many people know that it exists, its purpose or the powers that underpin it. Regards Richard At 12:49 AM 3/09/2014, you wrote: Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes (Mike Borgelt) 2. Re: Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes (Mike Borgelt) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:35:53 +1000 From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 83067c$5qe...@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; Format=flowed At 01:24 PM 3/09/2014, you wrote: In the GFA system, if you hire an aircraft and violate the terms of your hire, any instructor can, at their option, write a logbook annotation which grounds you. The grounding takes immediate effect, and applies to all of your flying nationally, including flying in other peoples' aircraft, including in aircraft you actually own yourself. The grounding will probably be maintained until the GFA MOSP's pilot discipline procedures have run their course, which could take months. Because logbook annotations cannot be altered or erased, every club you ever choose to fly with in the future will always be able to see that you've been grounded when they flip through the pages of your logbook. That's what dependent on their whims means in the GFA system. - mark It is worse than that. The instructor can ground you for any reason whatsoever. Been there, done that, for writing to the club committee about an insurance levy they wanted to impose during the membership year. I was concerned that calling it insurance would compromise my own glider insurance and pointed out that the club could, under their Constitution strike a membership levy at any time, just don't call it insurance. I heard no more. Next time I turned up to fly I was very rudely told by the paid club employee piss off we don't need your kind around here. Charming. I fronted a committee member
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
So we all know that the powers that beread this list and of course they should respond to the very fair questions asked here in. Anybody wanna wager?? There will be cold silence from the powers that be on the premise that it will all go away soon enough. Ron S On 2 September 2014 17:24, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: Mark said: 14 years later, nothing has changed. There are other essential non ops/airworthiness things that have never been done in the same timeframe also. My little hobby horse and specialty, won’t bore the list. Chris From: Mark Newton Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 4:06 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes On Sep 2, 2014, at 3:48 PM, Paul Bart pb2...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for a detailed and logical post. Frankly I do not think I would take issue with most points you make. I simply think my personal experience is different. I am not a member of any other flying organisation so I cannot compare. That’s fine, we all come from different backgrounds, and different things are important to all of us. That’s one of the points I was making. For those of us for whom “the freedom of flight” is important in the manner I described, GFA has literally nothing to offer us - indeed, its very existence is an impediment (the CASA GPL would likely be very different if GFA had not been involved in it) The fact is that I do not see that GFA impedes what I want to do, nor what a majority of glider pilots I personally know (a limited sample) do. Does a level 2 instructor impedes my flying, not in the least, do I feel in any way supervised? Not in the least. When it is my turn to run the day, do I interfere with any of the solo pilots? No. It’s not a question of interference, that isn’t the point. You cannot take responsibility for rigging a glider, because GFA seems to be saying that its trained certificate holders lack the alacrity to perform that task without someone else looking over their shoulder and countersigning. When you are running a day, you are on an undefined, open-ended legal liability hook for any accidents or injuries they suffer. Could you have prevented an actionable event by preventing a launch? Even if you couldn’t, could an insurance company’s lawyer paint a picture that says you could? You might not even know those other pilots, but you’ve “taken charge” of their operation. Do you know what that means? And anyone who isn’t an instructor should feel “in any way supervised” because that’s what the instructor’s actual job is. Everyone is under supervision. All the time. I don’t know how to describe how oppressive that is for the group of pilots for whom “freedom of flight” is important; how much the knowledge that you can never be so well trained or well skilled that you can be trusted to command your own aircraft can suck the enjoyment out of the sport — When that’s precisely the expectation held by pilots in literally every other aviation discipline I’ve ever come into contact with. I can remember 14 years ago, one of the very first aus-soaring messages I ever read was Mike Borgelt making the entirely reasonable observation that it is impossible for a L2 Independent Operator to legally fly his own self-launching glider out of his own private airfield, because the act of rigging it requires another GFA member to be physically present to countersign the maintenance release. 14 years later, nothing has changed. How is that possible? That renders the entire L2 Independent Operator rating worthless. How pathetic is it that so much time can pass without such an obvious regulatory defect being closed? So the only time I feel as a second-class aviator is when i hook into a 6 kt thermal and I know that Alan Barnes would be doing 8 :). That’s just Imposter Syndrome. Alan Barnes knows Ingo would be doing 12. :) - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
like i said Mike, any body wanna bet as to what we will hear?? Ron On 3 September 2014 08:49, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Ullrich, Rob Izatt is correct. when operating independently is the catch phrase. Don't forget also that an L2 independent operator rating can fail to be renewed by a club at a whim. If you don't believe that this can't happen due to personal feuds and vendettas or political differences I think you are naive. I know of one club where nearly half the membership was grounded and left the club because they had the temerity to call a special general meeting to get the club to buy its own tug so that the club would own a launch means which it owned instead relying on tugs owned by a syndicate of the old guard which were only intermittently available and were restricting flying. The old guard called up people they knew whose membership had lapsed years ago, signed thm up with a current year's subs and won the vote by 3 votes whereupon the losers were grounded by the club. To get any kind of instructor rating in power you need a commercial licence (at least 150 maybe 200 hours or so depending how and where you do it) and a proper instructor course which involves something like 30 to 40 hours of flying and a similar amount of ground instruction. Don't hold me to that as it was a while ago at the aero club where a couple of blokes were going through that. I'm sure the requirements haven't decreased. Seems a reasonable thing to me. When you talk of discouraging people by raising the instructor hours required the question arises - what problem are we trying to solve with the gliding instruction system? Are we trying to provide free flying for instructors at the students' expense? If so, the system is successful albeit at a fairly horrendous cost in dead and injured students and large numbers of discouraged would glider pilots. If we are trying to turn out competent glider pilots I'd say the system is very inefficient. The pity is that just about everyone (including I'm sure the people who own the private non profit organisation known as the GFA)* recognises that gliding is in a fragile state but nobody with the ability to do anything about this wants to change anything about the way business is done. * Mark is wrong about one thing in his other wise excellent post - the GFA is not membership based. Take a look at how to get on the Board. You need nomination by existing Board members. The Board (membership by invitation only) are the effective owners of the GFA and there is NOTHING you or even all the rest of the membership can do about it. The GFA can continue to exist without any members other than those on the board. Which, Ron, is why all you are hearing from the direction of Christopher Thorpe is the sound of crickets. Mike Mike, you are probably referring to the L1 IO rating (which in my opinion should be abolished – why should anyone be responsible for my flying unless I am in training). The current MOSP says: “13.2 LEVEL 2 ‘UNRESTRICTED’ INDEPENDENT OPERATOR Unlike the Level 1 Independent Operator authority, where club responsibility of independent operations is of primary importance, holders of Level 2 Independent Operator authority are solely responsible for all aspects of their operations when operating independently. This includes airways clearances, tower clearances, SAR notification and accident/incident reporting.” To my knowledge it has been like that for many years. I agree with you that the minimum hours for instructor ratings seem low but in practice it requires a lot more hours to gain the abilities and convince the CFIs and L3 instructors to give you an L1 let alone L2 rating. What should the minimum be in your opinion? No matter where you set that it will not be enough for some and increasingly discouraging for others the higher that number is. On the rest, including independent control checks for IOs, I’m also with you although I would choose less GFA-bashing words. Ulrich From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2014 11:07 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes At 11:02 AM 2/09/2014, you wrote: Let's stick to the facts please. A Level 2 Independent Operators Rating does that and with less bureaucracy and overregulation than in other parts of the world. It is also a product of the GFA - let's acknowledge that. No, you are still under an instructor if one is present, last time I looked. 200 hours? You can get a PPL for powered aircraft in 60 to 70 hours from scratch. You get a bi annual and a medical every two years. Apart from that you are completely free to go wherever and whenever you like with as many people as fit in the aircraft.
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
And to Mr Paul Bart, I think that you need to talk to a few more of us that have been hanging around gliding for nearly 50 years or so and you will hear more stories like Mike's. And then even more if you get into the competition scene. Ron On 3 September 2014 08:49, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Ullrich, Rob Izatt is correct. when operating independently is the catch phrase. Don't forget also that an L2 independent operator rating can fail to be renewed by a club at a whim. If you don't believe that this can't happen due to personal feuds and vendettas or political differences I think you are naive. I know of one club where nearly half the membership was grounded and left the club because they had the temerity to call a special general meeting to get the club to buy its own tug so that the club would own a launch means which it owned instead relying on tugs owned by a syndicate of the old guard which were only intermittently available and were restricting flying. The old guard called up people they knew whose membership had lapsed years ago, signed thm up with a current year's subs and won the vote by 3 votes whereupon the losers were grounded by the club. To get any kind of instructor rating in power you need a commercial licence (at least 150 maybe 200 hours or so depending how and where you do it) and a proper instructor course which involves something like 30 to 40 hours of flying and a similar amount of ground instruction. Don't hold me to that as it was a while ago at the aero club where a couple of blokes were going through that. I'm sure the requirements haven't decreased. Seems a reasonable thing to me. When you talk of discouraging people by raising the instructor hours required the question arises - what problem are we trying to solve with the gliding instruction system? Are we trying to provide free flying for instructors at the students' expense? If so, the system is successful albeit at a fairly horrendous cost in dead and injured students and large numbers of discouraged would glider pilots. If we are trying to turn out competent glider pilots I'd say the system is very inefficient. The pity is that just about everyone (including I'm sure the people who own the private non profit organisation known as the GFA)* recognises that gliding is in a fragile state but nobody with the ability to do anything about this wants to change anything about the way business is done. * Mark is wrong about one thing in his other wise excellent post - the GFA is not membership based. Take a look at how to get on the Board. You need nomination by existing Board members. The Board (membership by invitation only) are the effective owners of the GFA and there is NOTHING you or even all the rest of the membership can do about it. The GFA can continue to exist without any members other than those on the board. Which, Ron, is why all you are hearing from the direction of Christopher Thorpe is the sound of crickets. Mike Mike, you are probably referring to the L1 IO rating (which in my opinion should be abolished – why should anyone be responsible for my flying unless I am in training). The current MOSP says: “13.2 LEVEL 2 ‘UNRESTRICTED’ INDEPENDENT OPERATOR Unlike the Level 1 Independent Operator authority, where club responsibility of independent operations is of primary importance, holders of Level 2 Independent Operator authority are solely responsible for all aspects of their operations when operating independently. This includes airways clearances, tower clearances, SAR notification and accident/incident reporting.” To my knowledge it has been like that for many years. I agree with you that the minimum hours for instructor ratings seem low but in practice it requires a lot more hours to gain the abilities and convince the CFIs and L3 instructors to give you an L1 let alone L2 rating. What should the minimum be in your opinion? No matter where you set that it will not be enough for some and increasingly discouraging for others the higher that number is. On the rest, including independent control checks for IOs, I’m also with you although I would choose less GFA-bashing words. Ulrich From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2014 11:07 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes At 11:02 AM 2/09/2014, you wrote: Let's stick to the facts please. A Level 2 Independent Operators Rating does that and with less bureaucracy and overregulation than in other parts of the world. It is also a product of the GFA - let's acknowledge that. No, you are still under an instructor if one is present, last time I looked. 200 hours? You can get a PPL for powered aircraft in 60 to 70 hours from scratch. You
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
If I had a license for gliding just like my PPL I would probably (most likely) still join a club. I still like talking gliding at the end of the day, I still like comparing cross-country flights at the end of the day. At the end of the day, I still don't like being beholden to the duty pilot or the day instructor, when I am fitting in, just going about my business and enjoying the day. Nobody forces instructors to do what they do, so they must get some kind of reward out of it. Ron On 3 September 2014 10:35, Robert Izatt thebunyipboo...@gmail.com wrote: The salient point in Mike's comment is the GA Instructor/commercial pilot spends the cash or bums hours to get his rating because there is an income stream at the end - he/she hopes. But so does the swim coach at your local State School. Long gone are the days when any sort of quality coach or instructor was a pure volunteer. Join a yacht club (similar infrastructure etc) and the sailing instructor and the club will give you a bill for her time and you are happy because you got value for your money. Gliding instructors do spend big dollars getting a ticket and then volunteer a full day, drive 250kms at their own expense, on 40 degree days only to be told by some snot nose Treasurer, who couldn't find his way 10kms from home without a GPS and thinks that's OK, that instructors don't work hard enough for the club. Club's are good things but this whole discussion revolves around an antiquated volunteer system. Club's need volunteers to function but gliding holds up its most valuable resource - knowledge, skill and experience - and says or rather boasts that it has no dollar value and we all know the world ain't like that Toto. Rob Izatt On 03/09/2014, at 10:49 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote: Ullrich, Rob Izatt is correct. when operating independently is the catch phrase. Don't forget also that an L2 independent operator rating can fail to be renewed by a club at a whim. If you don't believe that this can't happen due to personal feuds and vendettas or political differences I think you are naive. I know of one club where nearly half the membership was grounded and left the club because they had the temerity to call a special general meeting to get the club to buy its own tug so that the club would own a launch means which it owned instead relying on tugs owned by a syndicate of the old guard which were only intermittently available and were restricting flying. The old guard called up people they knew whose membership had lapsed years ago, signed thm up with a current year's subs and won the vote by 3 votes whereupon the losers were grounded by the club. To get any kind of instructor rating in power you need a commercial licence (at least 150 maybe 200 hours or so depending how and where you do it) and a proper instructor course which involves something like 30 to 40 hours of flying and a similar amount of ground instruction. Don't hold me to that as it was a while ago at the aero club where a couple of blokes were going through that. I'm sure the requirements haven't decreased. Seems a reasonable thing to me. When you talk of discouraging people by raising the instructor hours required the question arises - what problem are we trying to solve with the gliding instruction system? Are we trying to provide free flying for instructors at the students' expense? If so, the system is successful albeit at a fairly horrendous cost in dead and injured students and large numbers of discouraged would glider pilots. If we are trying to turn out competent glider pilots I'd say the system is very inefficient. The pity is that just about everyone (including I'm sure the people who own the private non profit organisation known as the GFA)* recognises that gliding is in a fragile state but nobody with the ability to do anything about this wants to change anything about the way business is done. * Mark is wrong about one thing in his other wise excellent post - the GFA is not membership based. Take a look at how to get on the Board. You need nomination by existing Board members. The Board (membership by invitation only) are the effective owners of the GFA and there is NOTHING you or even all the rest of the membership can do about it. The GFA can continue to exist without any members other than those on the board. Which, Ron, is why all you are hearing from the direction of Christopher Thorpe is the sound of crickets. Mike Mike, you are probably referring to the L1 IO rating (which in my opinion should be abolished – why should anyone be responsible for my flying unless I am in training). The current MOSP says: “13.2 LEVEL 2 ‘UNRESTRICTED’ INDEPENDENT OPERATOR Unlike the Level 1 Independent Operator authority, where club responsibility of independent operations is of primary importance, holders of Level 2 Independent Operator authority are solely responsible for all aspects of their operations
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 32
of the nonsense that a glider maintenance release was only valid when the glider was flown by a paid up GFA member. An aircraft is either airworthy or not. It can't tell who is flying it. You could even operate a glider without a licence if you wrote the Secretary of DoT and told them you would operate to GFA standards. After 2003 GFA, in collusion with CASA employees, gradually re wrote 95.4 until we have the current situation. Until 2009 they actually pretended that there would be a parallel path. They lied yet again, aided by the appointment of the now thankfully departed McCormick and with the acquiescence of the GFA Board including Anita Taylor. Mike -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20140903/d9b96bd6/attachment.html -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:48:57 +1000 From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Message-ID: 83067c$5qe...@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed So only 23 years after the Gawler Gliding Club was formed the GFA gets around to enabling such clubs? So why should people who want to do this have any kind of club at all? Why not the scenario put forth by Al Borowski? How about a club of ONE member? It is hardly a radical concept as it is exactly what is done in the RAAus. There are RAAus members and they MAY form clubs. They aren't forced to.There are also commercially run flying schools and privately run airfields which provide a runway and hangarage. I'm not aware that anyone in RAAus finds this a problem at all. Mike At 02:22 PM 3/09/2014, you wrote: Hi all, I think that the last person to have any interest in naked emperors was named Josephine, before this thread exposed a whole new concept in glider pilot fetishes. But I digress. At its recent meeting in Adelaide, I understand that the GFA Board approved a change that will allow non-training clubs to form under the GFA system. This will mean (as I understand it) that a group of suitably qualified members can form a club that has no CFI, no 2 seater and no training operation.? The qualification requirement would be a GPC for each member. Pilots would still be responsible individually for getting their annual check (somewhere else, obviously) and maintaining their medical status. I don't know any other details, so no point in asking.? But I do know it happened.? I expect the official announcement won't be far away. Go for it, guys.? And girls. Disclaimer 1: I hold no official position in the GFA apart from looking after some IT systems.? This is, therefore, not an official statement of any kind and may be complete bollocks. Disclaimer 2: No crickets were harmed in the writing or sending of this email.? A large number of electrons, however, were seriously inconvenienced. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire ?? fare c' ?? mezzo il mare On 3/09/2014 1:10 PM, Ron Sanders wrote: If I had a license for gliding just like my PPL I would probably (most likely) still join a club. I still like talking gliding at the end of the day, I still like comparing cross-country flights at the end of the day. At the end of the day, I still don't like being beholden to the duty pilot or the day instructor, when I am fitting in, just going about my business and enjoying the day. Nobody forces instructors to do what they do, so they must get some kind of reward out of it. Ron On 3 September 2014 10:35, Robert Izatt mailto:thebunyipboo...@gmail.comthebunyipboo...@gmail.com wrote: The salient point in Mike's comment is the GA Instructor/commercial pilot spends the cash or bums hours to get his rating because there is an income stream at the end - he/she hopes. But so does the swim coach at your local State School. Long gone are the days when any sort of quality coach or instructor was a pure volunteer. Join a yacht club (similar infrastructure etc) and the sailing instructor and the club will give you a bill for her time and you are happy because you got value for your money. Gliding instructors do spend big dollars getting a ticket and then volunteer a full day, drive 250kms at their own expense, on 40 degree days only to be told by some snot nose Treasurer, who couldn't find his way 10kms from home without a GPS and thinks that's OK, that instructors don't work hard enough for the club. Club's are good things but this whole discussion revolves around an antiquated volunteer system. Club's need volunteers to function but gliding holds up its most valuable resource - knowledge, skill and experience
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
As I understand it that process might have been based on goodwill or some other cooperation regime because when the BGA license was first introduced it was not ICAO compliant as i understand it. And probably it was only to fly German registered sailplanes IN Germany. I would say that if it was not for a German registered glider to be flown in Germany then Matthew just got away with it. I do not know how far down the line the BGA is with is EASA compliance but at the end of the road I would say you BGA license is still not really any good unless the UK CAA has its stamp upon it. Ron S On 25 August 2014 13:19, Michael Scutter michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Bak in the good days (2011), Matthew got a British licence based on his c certificate and a recent scan of his log book showing he had done more than 5 hours flying in a year. The CEO of the BGA, also sent a copy of a letter from the BAA (British equivalent of CASA). It said the BGA was higher than required to an ICO licence. I sent the letter to the LBA (the German equivalent of CASA) along with a copy of his BGA licence. LBA responded you can fly in Germany. The person registering Matt for the comp, looked at the letter from the LBA and said no problems. If they say you can, then you can. The system we have not, surely could be better, like this example. Michael On 25 Aug 2014, at 1:37 pm, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Michael, You are of course correct. It is ridiculous. Not only that, I suspect ICAO never envisaged a qualification for recognition by another country that wasn't to be recognised in the holder's home country. If I was a bureaucrat working for EASA or the FAA licencing departments I sure wouldn't recognise one of those. I'd reckon it was intent to deceive. Come to think of it, from a conversation I had a long time ago with an FAA general aviation office employee they regard recognition of foreign qualifications as being contingent on said qualification allowing you to fly legally in your home country. Oops. Mike At 12:47 PM 25/08/2014, you wrote: For what it's worth, a credential that can't be used in Australia reflects badly on Australian pilots. There is this extra step (paper work), that Australia does not recognise, but expects other countries to. It's not funny, it's ridiculous. Michael On 25 Aug 2014, at 7:04 am, Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: Well, what will be needed re paperwork to fly a glider out from under the umbrella in the rain? wlEmoticon-smile[1].png From: Christopher Thorpe Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:13 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Ron Refer to CASR 61 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014C00046: 61.1510 Privileges of glider pilot licences 61.1520 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—recennt experience 61.1525 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—flighht review 61.1530 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—mediccal certificates 61.1535 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—carriiage of documents For what it’s worth, a CASA GPL only exists to assist GFA members wanting to have their Australian qualifications recognised overseas. It will not allow a person to fly gliders in Australia outside the umbrella of the GFA. Regards image001.pngChristopher Thorpe Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.g lidingaustralia.org au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:59 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Thank you. In the references listed I can not find the privileges and responsibilities of the CASA GPL?? ron On 24 August 2014 18:51, Christopher Thorpe ctho...@bigpond.com wrote: Ron The GFA GPC is compliant in that it meets the standards specified in Annex 1 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. The regulatory authority is in Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998, subparagraphs 61.1540 (2)(a),(b), (c). CASA has produced a guidance booklet at: http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/part61booklet.pdf For further guidance, go to: http://www.casa.gov.au/licensingregs CASA has informed me that an applicant for a GPL will need to present their GPC and identification documents, and then meet the following requirements: • CASA Medical • FROL; • Security Check; and • English Language Proficiency Assessment; Glider
[Aus-soaring] Confor foam
www.bgashop.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProdproductId=197 Ron S ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
This from the UK rec soaring chat line. More info Just shows me again that those who have been able to fly an EU registered glider in the EU on their BGA GPL have just gotten away with it If the insurance companies were up on this I wonder what would happen when Aus guys crash EU registered gliders?? it would only take one event for the insurer to not pay up. * Ron Sanders' question raises a few issues. Even if he is a UK national if his country of residence is Australia then he may not be deemed resident or established (see below Part FCL Annex III) in the EU. So converting his UK gliding experience (forget the BGA GPL which was a try-on to persuade the French to accept our non-state issued qualifications about 14 years ago) may not be possible. In the European (EASA) Part FCL, there is provision for non- European - in terms of residency - pilots to visit Europe and fly EU registered gliders with their own national (State and ICAO compliant / issued) pilot licences. The wording is in Annex III to Part FCL, paras 1 and 2. In essence there is a process of validation of foreign licences which can take place once only for a period not one year. This period may only be extended once, after which the pilot needs to obtain an EU licence to fly. At Europe Air Sports we lodged a request some two years ago for this rule to be relaxed because the administrative logistics for someone resident in a non-EU country to get an EU licence either from a distance or at the beginning of a short term visit to Europe for holiday, competition flying or whatever, would effectively preclude them from flying in Europe. This point is now on the list of many changes which the European Commission is now progressing as part of the new approach under the umbrella of the GA Safety Strategy. I expect a change to come about as part of a wider group of changes linked to the recent announcement of a deferral of the mandatory date for having an EU licence to fly EASA gliders from April 2015 and April 2018. DGR / EAS On 25 August 2014 18:30, Michael Scutter michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Thank you Konrad. I would like to take the liberty of converting what you just wrote into Australian... It is all a crock of shit! I apologise to all or any I have offended. I'll make sure I give myself ten strokes of the water proof lash I keep in the shower for exactly these sorts of circumstances. Michael On 25 Aug 2014, at 5:17 pm, Konrad Maierhofer maierho...@fly-down-under.com wrote: This is my contribution to more confusion about EASA and ICAO licenses (don't read if you are after information about a competition license): I started with aviation with Ultra Lights in Germany, learned soaring in Australia tried to convert my (at that time) non-existing Australian license to a German Gliding license. No way! I wound up to get a new license in Europe. I opted to get my gliding license in Austria as this allowed me to do my training in my own German registered glider which was by far cheaper than to do it in Germany. Germany and also Austria requires endorsements for different launch methods (winch, aerotow, self launch and sustainers - not including TMGs=touring motor gliders like a Motorfalke or Super Dimona). In order to fly a tug in Australia I also started to get a PPL(A) (at that time ICAO PPL(A) JAR-FCL) which I thought would enable me to fly an Australian GA registered tug - wrong. ICAO is not the same as EASA. EASA will replace or supersede the national European rules. EASA is not completely in place in whole Europe. Like in my case my German ICAO PPL(A) JAR-FCL license was already converted to an EASA PPL(A) JAR-FCL. My Austrian ICAO-license will not be converted to an EASA license in the next three years as Austria decided to postpone the transition to a later date. But in the next (I think) three years all European countries will convert all local licenses into European licenses. Some will be upgraded to something better some will have less rights. For gliding there will be two licenses available LAPL and SPL. LAPL and SPL have different requirements for the aviation medical. LAPL has less equirements but is only valid in Europe. SPL needs a Class II Medical and is again a proper ICAO license that is valid world wide in ICAO countries. If the option of getting a British license is still available then this might be the best way to get an ICAO license sooner or later. Why not taking advantage or the Common Wealth and the courtesy of BGA! Then when time is ready you will get the license converted to a SPL. Downside is that you will need a Class II Medical when you get to Europe. If your health is OK then this shouldn't be a problem but will cost several hundred Euros. Depending on your age it needs to be renewed every two years. This might make only sense if you intend to fly in Europe and hire a foreign registered aircraft. Sometimes with hiring a glider in Europe
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Dear Chris, Could you please explain the legislative background which makes the GPC right now as is, ICAO compliant? However, on September 2, I wish to convert my GPC into a CASA Glider Pilot License, can you please tell me how to do this? Ron Sanders On 24 August 2014 17:21, Christopher Thorpe ctho...@bigpond.com wrote: To dispel some of the misinformation written about the GPC: 1. The GFA GPC *is* ICAO compliant. 2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent Operator status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5). 3. Foreign pilots can readily convert an overseas issued ICAO compliant licence to the GPC (refer the GFA web site http://www.glidingaustralia.org/GFA-Ops/foreignpilots.html for details). 4. This year, Mal Read (CASA) and I have assisted several Australian pilots convert their GPC to an overseas ICAO licence. Granted this was not necessarily an easy thing to do given the current EASA regulatory environment. 5. When CASR Part 61 comes into force on 1 September 2014, Australian pilots wishing to fly overseas can use their GPC to obtain a CASA Glider Pilot Licence to overcome past difficulties with overseas recognition. Regards [image: image001]*Christopher Thorpe* Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) *M*: +61 4 1447 6151 | *E*: e...@glidingaustralia.org | *w*: www.g lidingaustralia.org http://glidingaustralia.org/ au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ulrich Stauss *Sent:* Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:32 AM *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Picking up from Michael Scutter: Will overseas pilots holding an ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license and an FAI Sporting license still require a GPC to fly in Australian competitions? Perhaps more importantly, do the insurances recognise both the FAI Sporting license and the GPC for their purposes? Or are there provisions in place to recognise the FAI Sporting license as equivalent/superior? If so does this also apply to an Australian pilot holding an FAI Sporting license but not a GPC? (What if this pilot also holds an overseas ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license?) Will the points of a competitor in an Australian National Championship who only holds a GPC but no FAI Sporting license be recognised for the FAI/IGC Pilot Rankings? To my knowledge the GPC is not ICAO compliant nor recognised anywhere overseas. I guess that will have to wait until the CASA GPL finally gets off the ground. The way I read the MOSP, the GPC in practice merely means that the holder has a C certificate and may have been trained according to the ‘new’ rearranged syllabus and to Level 1 independent operator standard (but does not necessarily hold the L1 IO rating!). In the meantime our pilots who want to compete overseas are still on their own in the battle with foreign bureaucracies to obtain an ICAO compliant license from wherever this is easier or quicker in their circumstances (UK, US, Czech Republic…) on the basis of the C certificate – good luck to anyone attempting that based on a GPC. Wasn’t that the primary issue that the GPC was supposed to fix? The emperor has no clothes! Ulrich *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *pam *Sent:* Friday, 22 August 2014 10:35 *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses Records: You must have an FAI Sporting Licence before you make a record attempt. One pilot this year had a record claim rejected because he had no Sporting Licence. You pay $10 and renew every 2 years. A pilot can only hold one Sporting Licence, so for example if you already hold one issued by Australia, you fly records and International Competitions as a representative of Australia. You can’t compete in the French Team, if you hold an FAI Sporting Licence issued by Australia. In other words, the FAI Sporting Licence is dependent on your Nationality or Residence. Competitions: The use of the word ‘competition licence’ is confusing, when it refers to the FAI Sporting Licence. It was a requirement of the insurance company providing liability insurance to competition organisers, as evidence of pilots’ competence, and perhaps in everyday speech it sounds simpler to say ‘competition licence’. It appears now that the insurer is happy to accept a GPC for competitions in Australia. Pam *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net aus-soaring-boun
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Thank you. In the references listed I can not find the privileges and responsibilities of the CASA GPL?? ron On 24 August 2014 18:51, Christopher Thorpe ctho...@bigpond.com wrote: Ron The GFA GPC is compliant in that it meets the standards specified in Annex 1 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. The regulatory authority is in Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998, subparagraphs 61.1540 (2)(a),(b), (c). CASA has produced a guidance booklet at: http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/part61booklet.pdf For further guidance, go to: http://www.casa.gov.au/licensingregs CASA has informed me that an applicant for a GPL will need to present their GPC and identification documents, and then meet the following requirements: • CASA Medical • FROL; • Security Check; and • English Language Proficiency Assessment; Glider pilots already holding a CASA Licence will generally only need to evidence holding a GPC and a current CASA medical. Regards [image: image001]*Christopher Thorpe* Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) *M*: +61 4 1447 6151 | *E*: e...@glidingaustralia.org | *w*: www.g lidingaustralia.org http://glidingaustralia.org/ au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ron Sanders *Sent:* Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:00 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Dear Chris, Could you please explain the legislative background which makes the GPC right now as is, ICAO compliant? However, on September 2, I wish to convert my GPC into a CASA Glider Pilot License, can you please tell me how to do this? Ron Sanders On 24 August 2014 17:21, Christopher Thorpe ctho...@bigpond.com wrote: To dispel some of the misinformation written about the GPC: 1. The GFA GPC *is* ICAO compliant. 2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent Operator status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5). 3. Foreign pilots can readily convert an overseas issued ICAO compliant licence to the GPC (refer the GFA web site http://www.glidingaustralia.org/GFA-Ops/foreignpilots.html for details). 4. This year, Mal Read (CASA) and I have assisted several Australian pilots convert their GPC to an overseas ICAO licence. Granted this was not necessarily an easy thing to do given the current EASA regulatory environment. 5. When CASR Part 61 comes into force on 1 September 2014, Australian pilots wishing to fly overseas can use their GPC to obtain a CASA Glider Pilot Licence to overcome past difficulties with overseas recognition. Regards [image: image001]*Christopher Thorpe* Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) *M*: +61 4 1447 6151 | *E*: e...@glidingaustralia.org | *w*: www.g lidingaustralia.org http://glidingaustralia.org/ au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ulrich Stauss *Sent:* Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:32 AM *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Picking up from Michael Scutter: Will overseas pilots holding an ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license and an FAI Sporting license still require a GPC to fly in Australian competitions? Perhaps more importantly, do the insurances recognise both the FAI Sporting license and the GPC for their purposes? Or are there provisions in place to recognise the FAI Sporting license as equivalent/superior? If so does this also apply to an Australian pilot holding an FAI Sporting license but not a GPC? (What if this pilot also holds an overseas ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license?) Will the points of a competitor in an Australian National Championship who only holds a GPC but no FAI Sporting license be recognised for the FAI/IGC Pilot Rankings? To my knowledge the GPC is not ICAO compliant nor recognised anywhere overseas. I guess that will have to wait until the CASA GPL finally gets off the ground. The way I read the MOSP, the GPC in practice merely means that the holder has a C certificate and may have been trained according to the ‘new’ rearranged syllabus and to Level 1 independent operator standard (but does not necessarily hold the L1 IO rating!). In the meantime our pilots who want to compete overseas are still on their own in the battle with foreign bureaucracies to obtain an ICAO compliant license from wherever this is easier or quicker in their circumstances (UK, US, Czech Republic
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news from Germany
Is there any more news on this matter?? Ron On 27 June 2014 17:14, Future Aviation ec...@internode.on.net wrote: Hello all I have just learned that the DG 1000 M demonstrator was lost killing both experienced occupants on impact. Hopefully this information proves to be incorrect but I must add that it comes from a reliable source. Bernard ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] battery power
right on!! On 26 June 2014 17:53, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hopefully, electric will triumph and we won't be burning non-renewables Where exactly do you figure the energy to recharge the batteries will be coming from?? ROSS _ -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014 10:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] battery power I love the ability of the virtual world to spread unsubstantiated gossip, usually with a mindset bend behind it. Well, it certainly allows you to compare second hand values of cars better than one might without a virtual world. And the Priapsis does not look that great. And considering you can get the same or better mileage from a number of other cars of similar size I've got no mindset other than the fact that right now, it's regrettably difficult to see an electric self launcher (ultralight) or sustainer competing with a petrol powered engine. A 30 year old DG-400 or ASH 26 is still a working proposition because their motors are still fairly current technology. When they were new, NiCad batteries were the state of the art and remember how awful they were in most cases. I can clearly remember the bang as my expensive SAFT batteries splatted all over the room courtesy of their state of the art charger. Hopefully, electric will triumph and we won't be burning non-renewables but I for one would not want to spend a lot of money on an electric sailplane right now and the long, long extension cord to recharge it while flying around our non-electric airfields. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Wingspans
nobody got it. On 23 April 2014 20:36, Catherine Conway c...@internode.on.net wrote: ZBY IS 26.5 m Cath Sent from my iPhone On 23 Apr 2014, at 9:44 pm, Rob Wintulich r...@signwizard.com.au wrote: Ron, Schempp Hirth website says 4DM has 26.5m wingspan! -Original Message- From: Ron Sanders Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 8:55 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Wingspans I was just wondering what is the wingspan of VH GXY, Nimbus 4 DM?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Wingspans
Of course!! it is just that had I known I might have gone!! and I think it is an eminently sensible thing to do. Ron On 24 April 2014 15:04, Matthew Scutter yellowplant...@gmail.com wrote: Some of us got it. I think Easter comps are generally more about fun than rules though. On 24 Apr 2014 16:58, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: nobody got it. On 23 April 2014 20:36, Catherine Conway c...@internode.on.net wrote: ZBY IS 26.5 m Cath Sent from my iPhone On 23 Apr 2014, at 9:44 pm, Rob Wintulich r...@signwizard.com.au wrote: Ron, Schempp Hirth website says 4DM has 26.5m wingspan! -Original Message- From: Ron Sanders Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 8:55 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Wingspans I was just wondering what is the wingspan of VH GXY, Nimbus 4 DM?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Wingspans
I was just wondering what is the wingspan of VH GXY, Nimbus 4 DM?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hangarage in general
per annum of course thanks. ron On 13 April 2014 18:36, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: About $1100 On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 7:05 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Just wondering what people pay for hangarage these days? At your club, commercially?? for a 15m glider. thanks ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] fuselage cradles
I have two trailer fuselage cradles for sale. one that used to sit under a Cirrus 75 and one that used to sit under a Numbus 3D. Make an offer off line if interested. resand...@gmail.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints
to more confusion in the official contest turnpoint database or which turnpoint has been set? Presumably the names are spelled correctly and the coordinates supplied by the organisers. Mike .At 10:30 AM 8/01/2014, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0162_01CF0C5C.A9DFE160 Content-Language: en-au From a competitor's point of view the new turnpoint naming convention of number/name is great as it avoids any possible confusion regarding which turnpoint has been set for the task. Also makes it much easier to input the task accurately into the logger/flight computer/gps whatever. Similarly, in the air they are really much easier and faster to use. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mandy Temple Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2014 9:45 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints The names are a combined number and name, not just a number. eg 47PATA MT From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2014 8:49 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints With the added advantage that casual visitors to the contest have no idea where the task is for the day :-) Mike At 07:06 PM 7/01/2014, you wrote: Hi Ron, apparently it was requested by the pilots at a recent nats pilot meeting (maybe Benalla) and is now in the guidelines. Makes inputting tasks to a device easier. Regards Grant. Grant Hudson On 7 Jan 2014, at 19:21, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Everybody just a question about the arrangement of turn points. I noticed at Kingaroy and now at Waikerie that turn points are being described primarily by numbers these days. I was wondering if any body can tell me why?? Don't care one way or the other just interested to know if some body has made some kind of policy decision. Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints
Yeah a Luddite! On 9 January 2014 11:58, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: *Ron Sanders said:* ** I also understand that this sounds like that rambling and digressions of an old man but the encroachment of computers and worse our blind faith in them is insidious. - *The Dictionary says:* *re·ac·tion·ar·y* (r[image: http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif]-[image: http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/abreve.gif]k[image: http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif]sh[image: http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif]-n[image: http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gif]r[image: http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif][image: http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif]) *adj.* Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative. *n.* *pl.* *re·ac·tion·ar·ies* An opponent of progress or liberalism; an extreme conservative. -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Thursday, 9 January 2014 1:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints Dear Matt, COONAM IS different from COONAB. I use a volkslogger so I know. It is interesting as to how many responses a simple question gets! I have a small preference for names rather than numbers, my understanding of the geography of the world IS based on names rather than numbers but I am absolutely tired if being dictated to by the limits of the computer world. It was interesting to watch the breifings at the recent nationals, the first Aussie comp I have attended for years, to note that it was almost a prerequisite that you had done you own prior briefing using the same tools as the organisation did. I just compared this to the old school type like I received recently at the South African nationals from Sven Olivier and like I used to receive from dear Alan Woolley. The guys took in all the data they had available to them and then using their local knowledge and experience gave a good high probability FORECAST. I definitely understand that my time has been and gone but I believe in the basics and basically the accident of Asiana recently and the notorious Air France 447 should never have happened. Basically you push the trust levers forward if you want to go faster, funny it is a bit like putting your foot on the accelerator. I also understand that this sounds like that rambling and digressions of an old man but the encroachment of computers and worse our blind faith in them is insidious. See ya later On 9 January 2014 06:39, Matt Gage m...@knightschallenge.com wrote: My understanding was that the official turn point list was now the file supplied by the organisers anyway. This is usually a small subset of the local database without points close together. Even with a lack of multiple points in the same location, there is scope for confusion. I am aware of someone entering COONAMBLE into a task instead of COONABARABRAN as the device only showed the first 6 characters ! And then they flew the wrong task. From experience, entering a task using the numbers is far quicker and far less error prone, particularly if having to do it in the air (after my oudie crashed and lost the task), which means less time with head in the cockpit ! As far as getting an idea of what the task is, that is available from the task sheet and by drawing it on a map. Remember, the task is for the benefit of the competitors. The fact that any of us looking from home, work, etc can see what they are doing is a bonus. We should NEVER look to define tasks for the benefit of spectators ahead of the competitors. I was actually opposed to this change until I got to use the new names Matt On 8 Jan 2014, at 19:29 , Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Oh Mike, the probability for error goes through the roof when you have to enter the actual Lat and Long of the turn points. I think you must have your tongue firmly planted in your cheek on that answer. LOL ROSS __ ___ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.netaus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2014 11:37 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints Presumably the turnpoint comes with the lat and long on the official list. That removes any ambiguity. So, no, you don't have a point in the days of GPS and databases. Mike At 11:29 AM 8/01/2014, you
[Aus-soaring] Turnpoints
Everybody just a question about the arrangement of turn points. I noticed at Kingaroy and now at Waikerie that turn points are being described primarily by numbers these days. I was wondering if any body can tell me why?? Don't care one way or the other just interested to know if some body has made some kind of policy decision. Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints
The confusion only comes from the space available for the name being limited by the computer. In the English language there is no confusion between Bobedah road junction and Bobedah Town hall. I thought computers were supposed to be mankind's servant not the other way around. Ron On 8 January 2014 09:29, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: How is having a name instead of a number likely to lead to more confusion in the official contest turnpoint database or which turnpoint has been set? · Jandowie, Jandowie North, Jandowie Crossing · Bobedah Town Hall, Bobedah Road Junc · Boggabilla, Boggabri · Carinda East, Carinda Swim Pool · Collie A/F, Collie Road Junc · Condobolin TerminlBldng, Condobolin Silo · Coonabarabran, Coonabarabran Silo · Coonamble TerminlBldng, Coonamble Silo, Coonamble West · Forbes A/F, Forbes Silo · Gilgandra A/F, Gilgandra TerminlBldng, Gilgandra Beehive Silo · Temora A/F, Temora Silo · Tomingley Road Junction, Tomingley West (Silo)... I could go on but you probably get the idea by now Mike. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2014 10:45 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints Depends on the device and how the database is organised and how you choose turnpoints. How is having a name instead of a number likely to lead to more confusion in the official contest turnpoint database or which turnpoint has been set? Presumably the names are spelled correctly and the coordinates supplied by the organisers. Mike .At 10:30 AM 8/01/2014, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0162_01CF0C5C.A9DFE160 Content-Language: en-au From a competitor's point of view the new turnpoint naming convention of number/name is great as it avoids any possible confusion regarding which turnpoint has been set for the task. Also makes it much easier to input the task accurately into the logger/flight computer/gps whatever. Similarly, in the air they are really much easier and faster to use. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mandy Temple Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2014 9:45 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints The names are a combined number and name, not just a number. eg 47PATA MT From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Wednesday, 8 January 2014 8:49 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints With the added advantage that casual visitors to the contest have no idea where the task is for the day :-) Mike At 07:06 PM 7/01/2014, you wrote: Hi Ron, apparently it was requested by the pilots at a recent nats pilot meeting (maybe Benalla) and is now in the guidelines. Makes inputting tasks to a device easier. Regards Grant. Grant Hudson On 7 Jan 2014, at 19:21, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Everybody just a question about the arrangement of turn points. I noticed at Kingaroy and now at Waikerie that turn points are being described primarily by numbers these days. I was wondering if any body can tell me why?? Don't care one way or the other just interested to know if some body has made some kind of policy decision. Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com
[Aus-soaring] Waikerie scores
When and where are they going to be available?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Waikerie scores
you will have today!! On 1 January 2014 20:59, Catherine Conway c...@internode.on.net wrote: We haven't flown yet! Sent from my iPhone On 1 Jan 2014, at 8:25 pm, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: When and where are they going to be available?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC
I love that story!!! Ron On 20 December 2013 17:50, Mal Bruce m...@mals.net wrote: ASIC at $200.50 is expensive in comparison. Opens Cabling Licence old AUSTEL $84.50 every three years. CPR first aid every 2 or 3 years $120.00 Certificate Skid Steer Loader Excavator $1200.00 once off Certificate I in Construction (Whitecard WA NSW) $70 each once off NSW Snow Drivers Licence $200.00 once off Authorised Bus Driver GP3557 $70.00 every three years plus medical. WWC0157205E working with children check $80.00 every four years HR Drivers Licence $81.00 5 years its half price due no point loss. Fireams licence $100.00 5 years Pilots Licence Medical two years depends on age and level of licence and medical condition $200.00 to $400.00 A security guard in Adelaide tried to ASIC check us I asked him if he was and Aviation security inspector he shoved his security licence in my face I happily told him it had expired and walked off laughing. Check the checkers. ask for their identification check the date. Also check the photo. http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2013C00204/Html/Text#_Toc353975553 Part 5—Powers of officials Division 5.1—Aviation security inspectors 5.01 Identity cards (1) For subsection 78(2) of the Act, the requirements as to the form of an identity card are as follows: (a) the card must set out the holder’s full name; (b) the card must bear a recent photograph of the holder; (c) the card must bear a statement to the effect that the holder is an aviation security inspector for the purposes of Part 5 of the Act and this Part; (d) the card must bear the signatures of the holder and the Secretary. (2) If a person representing or apparently representing an aviation industry participant so requests, an aviation security inspector must show his or her identity card to the person. Penalty: 5 penalty units. (3) A person who ceases to be an aviation security inspector must return his or her identity card to the Secretary within 7 days. Penalty: 5 penalty units. (4) Before an aviation security inspector exercises any power under these Regulations (other than regulation 7.08) in relation to a person, the inspector must show his or her identity card to the person. Penalty: 5 penalty units. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Petition to remove ASIC
I do not think that is the issue. The issue always has been the liability that you expose your self to by being the second signatory. I would never be the second signatory. Never. Question if I did am I covered by the BBL??? And then what is the cover- it would have to be several million at least in the new world today?? And suppose as the owner of a self launcher I want to replicate Grosser's Newman to Jandakot flight-when I put the thing together at Newman who is gonna sign for it? Begs the question what does independent operator mean when I am dependent on someone else by that rule. It all equals rubbish!! And if a I have GPL do I STILL have to get another signature I am not for ever my brother's keeper and neither is he mine. I am tired, tired of the nanny state. On 19 December 2013 11:52, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that the 2nd signature after rigging a glider requirement is a bit onerous, bit maybe not stupid. Don't you think that the number of assembly mistakes justifies getting someone else to check things over. I am more comfortable having someone else to check things over. The fact that you then ask them to sign something tends to make them more thorough. Peter Champness On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: Done. Would be more impressive if the sport aviation bodies didn't themselves have stupid and onerous requirements. The second signature after rigging comes to mind - for which I've never seen a justification. There are plenty of others. Mike At 06:36 AM 19/12/2013, you wrote: Ladies Gents, The following is a link to a petition to abolish the ASIC card: http://tinyurl.com/removeASIC I contend that ASIC Cards are an unnecessary impost, particularly in the light that a risk assessment (in my view) would determine a very low or negligible effective deterrent against terrorist or subversive intentions; I frankly resent the implication that we, who are properly identified during training work hard to gain our qualifications, then are required to submit to further ID checks with the dubious privilege of paying for same. Please consider your support for the petition circulate to colleagues. Thanks, PeterS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Medicals
What about those who hold dual citizenship?? On 10 October 2013 21:53, Christopher Thorpe ctho...@bigpond.com wrote: The QA means exactly what it says. An AUSTRALIAN pilot must have an AUSTRALIAN Medical Certificate. ** ** I’m not sure how this morphed into the requirements for foreign pilots, but there is a separate page dedicated to foreign pilots at the following link:- http://www.glidingaustralia.org/GFA-Ops/foreignpilots.html ** ** Christopher Thorpe ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *jim crowhurst *Sent:* Thursday, 10 October 2013 9:37 PM *To:* aus soaring *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Medicals ** ** I have just been reading the medicals section of the OPS part of the GFA website and was looking at the FAQ. With respect to overseas pilots, I am confused *I am an Australian Citizen but hold a Class 1/Class 2 Medical Certificate issued overseas. Can I use this to meet GFA’s medical requirements?* * No. You must hold a Medical Certificate issued by an Australian Registered Doctor or DAME.* This means that regardless of any medical obtained overseas, a visiting pilot on holiday MUST see an Australian doctor and get signed off if they have ever had any of the exclusions, even if they hold a class 1 or 2 medical in their country. Some of the conditions are quite common in the age group of pilots that visit Australia. Surely if they have been signed off in the UK or USA or Germany for example they would meet requirements here? Is there any reciprocal arrangement with certain countries? My concern is that Australia may lose out on overseas pilots coming to visit because of the medical requirements. Has this always been this way or are these new regulations? This is more stringent than EASA, and that's saying something! Can someone knowledgeable explain the rules for overseas pilots or is it simply that if you can't self certify, see an Australian doctor and hope they sign off? It's not exactly convenient... thanks ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Nationals turnpoints
Just wondering if we can have an official list of turnpoints for the forth coming Multi-class nationals As soon as possible please. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications
And when are we going to get the rules and the turnpoints for the Nats at Kingaroy?? On 11 September 2013 18:41, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: John T - it really is crap. Surely several 300km flights would out weigh the 5hr requirement. Can remember doing 8 3/4 hrs in a skylark4 trying for my 500km so come 2days before comps and try for 500km . The important thing is in a state comps you are not going to get shot down day after day. I would suggest you put in a case and ask the powers that be. Actually I can tell you there are several pilots in comps that have not claimed badges yet are flying comps regularly. I best not name them. Just get a comp licence - it means nothing but makes you look good Why does the GFA system totally ignore your airforce experience and airforce really learn lookout unlike many glider pilots unfortunately. I hate this sort of crap. I will see you there John OK Ian McPhee On 11 September 2013 10:12, Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net wrote: Rules (and local rules) for State Competitions are set by State Associations. ** ** It has been usual for State Associations in recent times to adopt Nationals Rules, but to make some local rules in regard to things like entry requirements so as to allow less experienced pilots to enter. ** ** It’s the F in the GFA…… ** ** J ** ** Cheers ** ** *Tim* *Tra dire e fare c’è mezzo il mare* ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Trezise *Sent:* Wednesday, 11 September 2013 09:36 *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] State Comp Required Pilot Qualifications ** ** Can anyone tell me why the pilot qualifications for State Championships are different between Queensland and NSW ? Some of the differences are pretty minor, but is there any reason they should not be the same ? ** ** Issues: Qld: 20 hrs solo vs NSW: 25 hrs solo. Qld Silver C distance vs NSW Silver C plus one 300km flight. Qld 10 aerotows vs NSW no requirement. ** ** Can’t see any significant differences between Warwick and Lake Keepit which would justify different requirements for each site. ** ** Personally, it’s the second one which causes me a problem because, although I have done a number of 300km plus flights, total time has not exceeded 5 hours, and I see little point in just hanging around for 5 hours to get a boy scout badge. ** ** John -- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6601 - Release Date: 08/23/13 Internal Virus Database is out of date. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Contact lenses, laser surgery etc
I absolutley agree with DMcD regards bifovcals and flying. Multifocals are a dead loss with great reduction in peripheral acuity (not vision). I find the wider field of accurate vision available to me with bifocals at work essential for watching my F/0s panel. I have the split right on the instrument panel top level which also just happens to suit gliders. Ron On 23 August 2013 09:03, DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Bernie, I had eye surgery a couple of years ago for early-ish onset cataracts. I said to the surgeon, does that mean I won't be able to focus and he said, You have not been able to focus for years. The fact is that for people over 40, your focussing performance degrades like falling off a cliff to the point where after 50, you can't focus worth the mention. Getting any eye surgery done is terrifying, whatever they say and not to be taken lightly. However the results may be worthwhile. I have never met anyone who has had laser surgery who was not back needing glasses or surgery some years later. My cataracts were marginal but I went for surgery because the mild double vision was worrying. The results were spectacular with probably 15:20 vision as a result. I wear multi-focal lenses now. Why? Because I still cannot focus and need glasses. I can wear off the shelf sunnies but they won't allow me to read that well… though oddly, I can read a menu better than most middle aged people even though my bionic focus is set to infinity. For flying gliders, you mainly need two focus ranges. One is close within the cockpit which ranges from 400mm to about a metre and the other is infinity. If this is true for you, then why bother with multi-focal lenses when bifocals will do the job better and for less money? I say better because a bifocal lens covers a wider field of view with the same focus and has none of the vexing distortion which is a guaranteed result of almost all multi-focal lenses. Running downhill or down steps is really difficult with multi-focal lenses because the focal position in the lens means you have your head at the wrong angle. I have worn bifocals flying for some time, made specially to suit. I got the frames and sat in the glider and car and drew the top of the instrument panel on the lenses and the bifocal split is made for this and it works perfectly. Our local optometrist will dye the lenses to whatever colour you want and even add or reduce the tint for optimum results. Something worth looking at are Barz sunnies. http://barzoptics.com They are an Australian company who have thought a little more than most about bifocal sunnies. You can get a range with things like polarised lenses with a non-polarised bifocal/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New Rules: Start Heights
Paul I would have thought that once he restarted his engine he had either landed out before the start or at least had a second launch the criteria of which should be the same as the first ie to two thousand feet and that two thousand feet being achieved at full throttle, not so as to cruise to the Bunya,s at some lower power setting and just reach two thou at the bunyas. Did anyone protest?? On 18 August 2013 14:53, Paul Mander p...@mander.net.au wrote: This is a loaded issue, with arguments on both sides. I think Matthew has it about right. Poorly considered rules can yield severely unbalanced results, which is not necessarily to everyone's benefit. Years ago at Kingaroy, with a strong South Westerly, a pilot with a motor glider volunteered to launch first, as a snifter. Conditions being unsoarable, he motored upwind into the lee of the Bunyas and caught the wave. An hour and a half later the field launched into barely soarable conditions and the start gate duly opened. Whilst the field struggled to stay aloft and to get around the course, the snifter simply glided downwind, around the first turnpoint and nearly to the second. The winning margin was spectacular. Half the onlookers thought this was heroic since the rules at the time did not actually preclude it, the other half felt it to be other than in the spirit of the contest. Take care with rules. On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.comwrote: Dear Ron, I wish I was as skilful as you are. However I definately would not like to inhibit the potential winner who gets high at the start. That seems to me to be part of the comp. It does however disadvantage the guy who launches last. On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: So a guy who is skilfull and astute enough to catch the wave before start may as well not bother? Why dont we all just go to the comps and rig our gliders and then stand around them drinking beer and slapping ourselves on the back?? I have won a few races in the old days by noticing that wave was there, climbing to 11,000 feet before start. It was there for all to see not just me. and I remember one flight at LK years ago where I flew the whole first leg of a 300 K triangle in wave, turned the fist TP at about 10 thou and only took my first thermal some 20, 30 k before the second TP, three thermals later and I was on final glide. start ten mins after the pack arrive home 15 before. Ron S On 13 August 2013 15:51, Adam Woolley go_soar...@hotmail.com wrote: Heard on the grape vine again... Max start height no more than 500ft below convection; and less than 150 kph groundspeed.. Thoughts? Discuss? WPP ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New Rules: Start Heights
not always- the day at LK I was down low all the time , could not get up, I could hear the early starters going and I thought why is this why is this, there has to be a reason, I was in the area where the above wave was suppressing the convection, when i realised this i moved several Kms, found a thermal and went straight to base, out the front at 9000, into the wave to 11,700 and off - simple! On 13 August 2013 17:19, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Ron, I wish I was as skilful as you are. However I definately would not like to inhibit the potential winner who gets high at the start. That seems to me to be part of the comp. It does however disadvantage the guy who launches last. On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: So a guy who is skilfull and astute enough to catch the wave before start may as well not bother? Why dont we all just go to the comps and rig our gliders and then stand around them drinking beer and slapping ourselves on the back?? I have won a few races in the old days by noticing that wave was there, climbing to 11,000 feet before start. It was there for all to see not just me. and I remember one flight at LK years ago where I flew the whole first leg of a 300 K triangle in wave, turned the fist TP at about 10 thou and only took my first thermal some 20, 30 k before the second TP, three thermals later and I was on final glide. start ten mins after the pack arrive home 15 before. Ron S On 13 August 2013 15:51, Adam Woolley go_soar...@hotmail.com wrote: Heard on the grape vine again... Max start height no more than 500ft below convection; and less than 150 kph groundspeed.. Thoughts? Discuss? WPP ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Liability insurance
G'day guys, those of you who own and operate two seaters, what do you insure your passenger seat for?? 1 MIL, 10 Mil?? does it matter is the person is another pilot, or a friend?? ( I am not talking about fare paying pax - I do NOT do that). Do any insurance companies just cover that paragraph that is required by Competitions whereby you indemnify the GFA the organisers etc etc?? Any opinions about InterRISK Australia P/L. QBE, etc??? thanks, Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New Rules: On the grapevine...
Ten KM??? what was wrong with three K?? Ron On 9 August 2013 10:43, Adam Woolley go_soar...@hotmail.com wrote: Heard on the grapevine that we might be in for some new finish ring rules... 10km finish ring; Min finish height @ Multi-Class: 1000' Min finish height @ Club Class: 1200' What do you think? Discuss. Cheers, WPP ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New Rules: On the grapevine...
Guys who is they?? just who raised this idea?? And as Bob asks why ron On 9 August 2013 16:13, Bob Ward wendo...@westnet.com.au wrote: Adam, I would have thought that 5 K at 500 ft gave sufficient margin for safety. This seemed to me to do away with the worm burner final glides, which we all used to do. Very exciting, certainly, but now upon more mature reflection, were bloody dangerous. I would be interested in seeing the rationale for increasing the radius to 10 K. Then I will be prepared to give a considered opinion. Regards Bob Ward -Original Message- From: Adam Woolley Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 12:43 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] New Rules: On the grapevine... Heard on the grapevine that we might be in for some new finish ring rules... 10km finish ring; Min finish height @ Multi-Class: 1000' Min finish height @ Club Class: 1200' What do you think? Discuss. Cheers, WPP __**_ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.**on.net Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/**mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring __**_ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.**on.net Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/**mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings
Guys as I read the QLD requirements there is no need to have a long Vehicle sign; just the do not overtake turning vehicle sign and the Horizontal Diagonal thing which must be at least 0.16 square meters in area. I presume that the trailer in the pic satisfies the ACT/NSW requirements?? On 3 August 2013 18:56, Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Guys, I did my trailer up last year – the signs are from a truck/bus supplier; even the big “Long Vehicle” sign was just $40.00, and before someone comments that I don’t have side lights or reflectors, it did before the job was completed. ** ** The most expensive item was the LED high centre brake light and the paint J ** ** SDF ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ron Sanders *Sent:* Saturday, 3 August 2013 1:41 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings ** ** Guys Pam Kurstjens some time back kindly reminded all owners of Qld registered trailer about new requirements for do not overtake type markings. Can anyone put me onto a place where I can get these signs please?? I have searched three shops in WA and can only get the printed do not overtake signs. I am after the symbol signs for this in 300 x 300, not the usual 400 x 400, and also the horizontal diagonal striping sticker???* *** Thanks, Ron. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings
yes agreed On 4 August 2013 06:58, Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Ron, It exceeds the requirements J ** ** My understanding is that the definition of a Long Vehicle is any combination that exceeds 7.5 metres however the Long Vehicle signage is not required until the combination is 22 Metres or more – the high level centre brake light is not required either. ** ** But as we all know we share the road with a lot of Numties who have to overtake any trailer if it is in front of them regardless of how fast or slow it is traveling; The sign gets people’s attention and that’s what it’s there for. ** ** SDF ** ** *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ron Sanders *Sent:* Saturday, 3 August 2013 10:46 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings ** ** Guys as I read the QLD requirements there is no need to have a long Vehicle sign; just the do not overtake turning vehicle sign and the Horizontal Diagonal thing which must be at least 0.16 square meters in area. ** ** I presume that the trailer in the pic satisfies the ACT/NSW requirements?? ** ** On 3 August 2013 18:56, Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Guys, I did my trailer up last year – the signs are from a truck/bus supplier; even the big “Long Vehicle” sign was just $40.00, and before someone comments that I don’t have side lights or reflectors, it did before the job was completed. The most expensive item was the LED high centre brake light and the paint J SDF *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Ron Sanders *Sent:* Saturday, 3 August 2013 1:41 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings Guys Pam Kurstjens some time back kindly reminded all owners of Qld registered trailer about new requirements for do not overtake type markings. Can anyone put me onto a place where I can get these signs please?? I have searched three shops in WA and can only get the printed do not overtake signs. I am after the symbol signs for this in 300 x 300, not the usual 400 x 400, and also the horizontal diagonal striping sticker???* *** Thanks, Ron. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ** ** ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] QLD trailer markings
Guys Pam Kurstjens some time back kindly reminded all owners of Qld registered trailer about new requirements for do not overtake type markings. Can anyone put me onto a place where I can get these signs please?? I have searched three shops in WA and can only get the printed do not overtake signs. I am after the symbol signs for this in 300 x 300, not the usual 400 x 400, and also the horizontal diagonal striping sticker??? Thanks, Ron. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Fwd: West Wyalong
-- Forwarded message -- From: Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com Date: 28 April 2013 17:41 Subject: West Wyalong To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soar...@lists.internode.on.ne Just wondering who is running WW speed week this November? And why WW?? What facilities are there re water etc?? Ron S ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 2013 Multi Class Nationals at Kingaroy
Dear Ross, two things, 1) how do i pay? 2) why does the insurance question refer to OAMPS?? They areb not the only people who insure gliders in australia? Do you mean it to refer to the indemnity insurance required? regards, Ron On 24 April 2013 19:22, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi Everyone The 2013 Multi Class Nationals will be held at Kingaroy from October 14th to October 25th 2013. ** ** The competition website is http://www.kingaroynationals.com ** ** Please enter online using the Entry Form provided on the competition website. ** ** We will accept up to 60 entries in total, of which 10 are reserved for foreign pilots. If we have received more than 60 entries by 1st September, then entries which are lowest on the current Australian Ranking List (see GFA Website for this list) will be placed on a waiting list and will be the first accepted if there are any cancellations. ** ** Entries received after 1st September 2013 will be accepted strictly in order of receipt. ** ** ROSS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 2013 Multi Class Nationals at Kingaroy
Sorry Ross i have found how to pay and done so. I cant remembercan i camp on the Kingaroy airfield?? \ rgds ron On 25 April 2013 12:22, Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi Everyone The 2013 Multi Class Nationals will be held at Kingaroy from October 14th to October 25th 2013. ** ** The competition website is http://www.kingaroynationals.com ** ** Please enter online using the Entry Form provided on the competition website. ** ** We will accept up to 60 entries in total, of which 10 are reserved for foreign pilots. If we have received more than 60 entries by 1st September, then entries which are lowest on the current Australian Ranking List (see GFA Website for this list) will be placed on a waiting list and will be the first accepted if there are any cancellations. ** ** Entries received after 1st September 2013 will be accepted strictly in order of receipt. ** ** ROSS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aerodynamics Query
Adam, I think that it is fairly obvious that your extracter is working. But it is probably not a good thing that you are getting leakage from the wing/fuse junction?? For what it is worth. Ron On 14 April 2013 16:24, Adam Woolley go_soar...@hotmail.com wrote: G'day all, In the past my wing joining tapes would get blown off/out/bulging after a flight. Today I test flew my Cirrus with an extract vent (made out of my pre-existing inspection panel). The tape after inspection today was significantly sucked in. What does this indicate to you? Strepla, WPP ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Qld Easter comp.
I must say many years ago when travelling to the QLD OCT comps I drove past Goondiwindi many times and often wondered why we had never been there for comp. It is in the same situation as Dalby ie no host club but apperently a very willing town council. I would love to go there!! ron On 8 April 2013 14:10, Robert Hart ha...@interweft.com.au wrote: On 08-Apr-13 12:03, Mike Borgelt wrote: We flew down there on Saturday morning for a look. Day was canned at briefing because some computer program said so. It later got better and we flew all the way home in convection with some cumulus under the cirrostratus. Not quite, Mike. The predicted (and actual) available soaring window was insufficient to launch and task 53 gliders. A range of computer models were used to provide the information used in making the decision not to task that day. There is (as I know you are aware) a considerable difference between adequate soaring for a few gliders and launching an entire fleet, particularly at the Easter comp where there are usually quite a few inexperienced pilots. Note: I was not involved in the weather forecasting or task setting. Everyone had a good time, nothing got broken and they seem very happy with Goondiwindi as a soaring site. No airspace issues, tasking available in any direction, good spacious airfield kept in excellent condition by the supportive local council, good size town not far from airfield. Might be a good choice for a Nationals or Worlds. Indeed it is - and I believe plans are underway along those lines. -- *Robert Hart ha...@interweft.com.au* +61 438 385 533 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Email addresses
Can anyone help me with an email address for Bill and Val Wilkinson and also Alan Barnes please?? Reply to resand...@gmail.com. Ta ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Spam:*******, Re: Glider Pilots License
and some patience resulted in the approval. Norway was easiest, basically a check flight. The more international your license the less patience you need. The ICAO language on the new Australian GPL should make it easier. Comments indicate that flying a German registered glider is the hardest. Terry Sent from my iPhone On 28/03/2013, at 5:40 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Stephen, I am pretty sure that you have got the right answer. The issue for Aussies who go there in the future with the new GPC will be to get that endorsement or validation on their licence from the authority that registered the glider they are going to fly, you are right and that is the key. The present Blue license that the BGA issues is the same kind of con that we do (or used to) in that it is not ICAO compliant. What they are presently doing i guess is to get it so and then EASA compliant but at the mo it is not. Bureaucracy dontcha love it?? I rang the CASA the other day to ask why the endorsement self ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Spam:*******, Re: Glider Pilots License
Guys, well I have read the proposed part 61 and I now understand why I did engineering at uni instead of law! I wish I had also read the index as the gliding stuff is at the very back. Well, it still does not tell me how to get a Glider pilots licence, it seems that I can not get an Glider or Self Launching Sailplane endorsement on my ATPL or PPL for that matter. I still have to have a annual flight check from a Gliding Instructor and also it seems that my six monthly checks in the 737 or A380 for that matter do not count for anything other than for that class of aircraft and I still have to have a bi annual flight check if I wish to fly aeroplanes of another class. May be in the eventual implementation of this new reg things might get clearer but I hold no hope for being able to operate my self launch two seater the way I would like to and the way it was designed to be operated, Ie if I was towing the thing back to WA and wanted to stick it together at Caiguna and launch and soar the Australian bight cliffs with my wife or whever I can not. Fortunately my glider is not insured and when I no longer need a professional licence I wont care what is written down anywhere. R On 31 March 2013 17:24, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: On 31/03/2013, at 6:10 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Guys i have had a look on CASA site regards part 61 and i can not find the draft of it to read.Any idea where i find the part so that i can read it?? It's all linked from here. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PARTS061 - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Spam:*******, Glider Pilots License
What I meant was in one simply rocked up to Europe with the new GLC (GPL) and hired a Italian glider and went to a comp in germany or where ever can you get it and fly it?? R On 28 March 2013 14:35, Mike Cleaver wom...@netspeed.com.au wrote: Ron Nothing to do with the new Aus licence - if you have an Italian licence the Germans must let you fly it, if you do not have an Italian licence you probably will not be allowed to unless both the Germans and Italians agree to let you fly it there. Wombat Sent from my iPad On 28/03/2013, at 3:58 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Guys , I have question regards this new license - if i get one and just say the selectors went stark raving mad and i got to represent Australia to attend an international competition in say Germany, And the only glider I could rent or hire was an Itialian one, can i fly it in German airspace?? Interested. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Pilots License
Thanks Stephen, I am pretty sure that you have got the right answer. The issue for Aussies who go there in the future with the new GPC will be to get that endorsement or validation on their licence from the authority that registered the glider they are going to fly, you are right and that is the key. The present Blue license that the BGA issues is the same kind of con that we do (or used to) in that it is not ICAO compliant. What they are presently doing i guess is to get it so and then EASA compliant but at the mo it is not. Bureaucracy dontcha love it?? I rang the CASA the other day to ask why the endorsement self launching Glider was taken off my ATPL years ago. They said oh you can still fly your Nimbus 3 DM on your ATPL, just don't turn the motor off!! LOL CRY CRY Another one for you all, Do I need a bi-annual check in order to fly little aeroplanes, if I have six monthly tests and licence renewals renewals at work on my Aus ATPL?? R On 28 March 2013 14:36, steph...@internode.on.net wrote: Ron, This is my understanding from digging into it a few years ago (and getting a French recognition of my PPL**). Hope it make sense to you. 1. To fly an aircraft registered to a particular country you need a matching license* issued by the country of aircraft registration. 2. The license can be one normally issued by the particular country or there can be some hoops to jump through where they will recognise a foreign license and and deem that equivalent (to some or all of the national license). 3. If you are legally flying a partcular countries registered aircraft, you may legally fly it into, out of, or inside a foriegn country provided that you meet the customs/border controls etc between the two. 4. There are effectively no controls between most (all?) European states due to an agreement in place for some years (Schengen treaty) So the real answer. Yes, you can fly an Italian glider in a German competition _if_ you have your license accepted by the Italians. *The big issue that we have (had) is that glider pilots in Australia (and UK and NZ) _dont_ (didn't) have a license. At least not one recognised by most foreign countries. **My French endorsement said something along the lines of can excercise all the priviledges of his license and as my PPL only had single engine below 5700kg and didn't have any glider endorsement I couldn't fly French gliders even though I have much more time in gliders than power. Regards SWK - Original Message - From: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc: Sent: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 12:58:32 +0800 Subject: [Aus-soaring] Glider Pilots License Guys , I have question regards this new license - if i get one and just say the selectors went stark raving mad and i got to represent Australia to attend an international competition in say Germany, And the only glider I could rent or hire was an Itialian one, can i fly it in German airspace?? Interested. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Boring
Dear Adam, i agree with you!! And i note that there was not one reply to your far more interesting posted questionif the handicaps are so good why aren't fifteen metre flapped gliders allowed in Standard class? The priorities are not in the right order. RS On 5 March 2013 20:16, Adam Woolley go_soar...@hotmail.com wrote: I went soaring today (well a circuit), it was awesome! WPP ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] glider register
This is all very interesting. The bulletted points one and three seem to me to be a little at odds with each other. It seems to me that i can apply for a casa glider licence on the basis that i hold a CASA pilots licence for aeroplanes. But I cant HAVE a licence unless I have a GFA glider pilots licence and thought that was only available to instructors. I would also like to see a rights and privileges paragraph wherein i was granted by virtue of the license automatic independent operator status and relief of the requirement to get another person to sign for me and expose themselves to huge risk of suit in the event of subsequent accident, after I have rigged and flown my own glider. I certainly do not sign for anyone else's glider because of this. At age 66 I have little enough of an estate to allow it to be so threatened. I know experienced glider pilot similar age to me who resigned an important position inhte GFA for exactly this same threat of suit And further yet at age 66 I have enough gliding experience and life responsibility experience to be allowed by all the other countries in the world where I have flown to be allowed to rig and de-rig my glider without this silly impost, Germany UK France, South Afica, Lithuania. I also have this right at the age of seventeen when i have THEIR licenses! I am more than happy to comply with the GFA procedures and rules, which when assessed by and independent and at more than arms length authoritative body, are considered reasonable. I want a license that allows me as an independent glider pilot the same or more freedoms as that provided to a private pilot license holder. This rule as far as I understand it still leaves the GFA in control of my gliding activities to a far greater extent than any operation i might undergo as a private pilot with a cessna 172, and all I see it doing is granting a license to the comp pilots who need it for overseas Ops. The deal has not gone anywhere near enough for me. I hope someone can assure me that i am in error here. Rgds Ron Sanders On 2 March 2013 09:50, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: On 02/03/2013, at 10:33 AM, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: Halebloodyulia!! It will be nice to join the rest of the world re licence. :) I'm kinda surprised this is news. It's been on CASA's website for ages. Background: http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 The conditions are basically that the applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority, and must hold a CASA class 2 medical. The certificate will only be valid for as long as you maintain your GFA membership. I wonder how long it'll take before that last condition disappears. It's hard to see a lot of value in it. CASA regulations are supposed to be based on safety cases, and you don't suddenly cease to be a safe pilot as soon as your GFA membership lapses. (given that GFA can't issue ADs anymore, you probably don't even cease to be a safe pilot when your aircraft falls out of the GFA airworthiness system. I'm quite looking forward to seeing some GFA communication about the new limitations on their airworthiness authority) The times, they are a'changin'. Will be interesting to see how GFA changes with them. Regards, - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] glider register
Thanks gary i've got it. The clue was be patient!! Ron On 28 February 2013 14:34, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: ** Ron, There is a bit more to it than that! The files also can take some time to load *so be patient*. Once you have got to the CASA site select search Civil aircraft register scroll down and select Search the Aircraft register. This is under a sub-heading Aircraft register data. Once the Search the Aircraft register opens - see note above - under the sub-heading Extended search go to Aircraft type and click on the arrow in the box. This will open up 5 options, one of which is glider. Select this option, and then click on Search at the bottom of the page. Whilst you are on the Aircraft Register search page also set how many results per page you want - up to 50 is available. You will note that on this page there are many other options given for searching. If you know the glider registration, the easiest thing to do is to enter the last 3 letters in the box under quick search at the top of the page. Good luck, and happy searching. Gary - Original Message - *From:* Christopher McDonnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Thursday, February 28, 2013 4:55 PM *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] glider register CASA register search and pick glider option. Lots of oldies I know of though who did not comply with 9/11 fallout panic and have fallen off the register. *From:* Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:50 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] glider register can anyonwe tell me how to find the totl australian glider register? ron On 27 February 2013 20:55, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: Aircon? - I want one! :) -- *From: *Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com; *To: *Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; *Subject: *Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4 ~ Why not move to 24 volt systems? *Sent: *Thu, Feb 28, 2013 12:44:04 AM You usually move to higher voltage to transmit greater power at the same or lower current which reduces wiring weight. I suspect in light aircraft the power requirement for the electrics is driven by systems other than the avionics i.e electrically driven hydraulic pumps or simply electrically driven flaps, landing gear retract etc. There is consideration of going to 42 volts for cars for this reason. B50s work down to 10 volts, B300/B500/600/800 a little less. B400 and B700 down to 4 volts.(internal boost regulator cuts in). A 12 v nominal SLA battery is about to die at 11V terminal voltage when discharged at typical glider rates. If you are losing more than 0.2 volts or so between the battery and the instrument you need to fix the wiring, fuses switches etc. There doesn't seem to be any overwhelming reason to go to 24 volts in gliders. I'll bet most 24 or 28 volt avionics has a switch mode regulator to get 14 volts before going to the rest of the gadget or simply to the 5 volts or so required by the logic circuits. If we go to electric flaps and aircon like the Duckhawk this may change. I think it has something like a 54 A-H battery. Mike At 08:13 AM 28/02/2013, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0056_01CE1593.E2557430 Content-Language: en-us My contribution to the battery aspect of this thread is to question why we are so infatuated by 12 volts? [I once wrote Standards, and Standards often impede innovation] I also agree that the electrical systems must be designed and implemented taking into consideration volts, amps, temperature high and low, wiring, insulation, noxious gases, fusing, short circuit and thermal runaway, G load, weight and many other factors At Oshkosh 2006 the Blue Mountains Avionics presentation said for light aircraft the move to 24 volt systems was a no brainer, just so logical. Most instrumentation and radio’s require 10 volts and a 12 volt system decays to 10 volt reasonably fast. Microair’s need probably 10.5 before the transmitter goes garbled, Cambridge falls over at about 8 volts. Mike could perhaps comment on the minimums for Borgelt instruments. PDA’s and XCSoar have a USB 5 volt input so may work longer on a 12 volt system? Some avionics are designed for 35 volt DC maximum input [but XCOM and Microair apparently have 16 ~ 17 volt maximum input specification] But starting with 24 volts gets much more out of the battery before avionics fail. Even moving to say 16 volt to keep within radio specification could lead to increased useful battery life. Cranking amps for starter motors is at the high drain end of the drain spectrum but arguably is early in a batteries discharge cycle
[Aus-soaring] glider register
can anyonwe tell me how to find the totl australian glider register? ron On 27 February 2013 20:55, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: Aircon? - I want one! :) -- * From: * Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com; * To: * Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; * Subject: * Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4 ~ Why not move to 24 volt systems? * Sent: * Thu, Feb 28, 2013 12:44:04 AM You usually move to higher voltage to transmit greater power at the same or lower current which reduces wiring weight. I suspect in light aircraft the power requirement for the electrics is driven by systems other than the avionics i.e electrically driven hydraulic pumps or simply electrically driven flaps, landing gear retract etc. There is consideration of going to 42 volts for cars for this reason. B50s work down to 10 volts, B300/B500/600/800 a little less. B400 and B700 down to 4 volts.(internal boost regulator cuts in). A 12 v nominal SLA battery is about to die at 11V terminal voltage when discharged at typical glider rates. If you are losing more than 0.2 volts or so between the battery and the instrument you need to fix the wiring, fuses switches etc. There doesn't seem to be any overwhelming reason to go to 24 volts in gliders. I'll bet most 24 or 28 volt avionics has a switch mode regulator to get 14 volts before going to the rest of the gadget or simply to the 5 volts or so required by the logic circuits. If we go to electric flaps and aircon like the Duckhawk this may change. I think it has something like a 54 A-H battery. Mike At 08:13 AM 28/02/2013, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_0056_01CE1593.E2557430 Content-Language: en-us My contribution to the battery aspect of this thread is to question why we are so infatuated by 12 volts? [I once wrote Standards, and Standards often impede innovation] I also agree that the electrical systems must be designed and implemented taking into consideration volts, amps, temperature high and low, wiring, insulation, noxious gases, fusing, short circuit and thermal runaway, G load, weight and many other factors At Oshkosh 2006 the Blue Mountains Avionics presentation said for light aircraft the move to 24 volt systems was a no brainer, just so logical. Most instrumentation and radio’s require 10 volts and a 12 volt system decays to 10 volt reasonably fast. Microair’s need probably 10.5 before the transmitter goes garbled, Cambridge falls over at about 8 volts. Mike could perhaps comment on the minimums for Borgelt instruments. PDA’s and XCSoar have a USB 5 volt input so may work longer on a 12 volt system? Some avionics are designed for 35 volt DC maximum input [but XCOM and Microair apparently have 16 ~ 17 volt maximum input specification] But starting with 24 volts gets much more out of the battery before avionics fail. Even moving to say 16 volt to keep within radio specification could lead to increased useful battery life. Cranking amps for starter motors is at the high drain end of the drain spectrum but arguably is early in a batteries discharge cycle in the glider application. So why not have 16 ~ 24 volt systems in gliders? Alan Wilson [ARMIT Comm Eng] Canberra *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *gstev...@bigpond.com *Sent:* Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 8:58 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4 Nice one Arie. You do bring a bit of costing perspective into the argument here. The YouTube footage is interesting (horrific?), but I suspect basically irrelevant. I think that any glider pilot who knows anything about the problem, does not want to experience an inflight cockpit fire UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. I know of one example, where the pilot was VERY happy to have survived the experience - without having to bail out. He reported that fire - as in burning - was NOT the problem. He reported that the amount of fumes and smoke generated in an incredibly short time from the ignition of the plastic wire covering due to shorting of the electrical system was in fact the primary problem. For this unfortunate pilot, there were really two problems: first he had to be able to breathe, and secondly he had to be able to see what you are doing - basically impossible in a cockpit filled with smoke! Re your statement willing to replace a couple of batteries each year Probably a slip of the pen: As Bernard has pointed out a *high*quality SLA gel cell type battery MAY last up to 9 or 10 years, but this is hardly likely to be the norm. Five - seven years seems to be much more realistic estimate. As far as I can tell, the life of the LiFePo4 batteries is not claimed to be any better than this latter figure.
[Aus-soaring] email addresses
G'day all , can someone help me with email addresses for Greg Schmidt and Simon Brown and Gary Stevenson, Please. thanks, Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] multi class nats in 2013/14 season
The above nats look like being in QLD, does anyone know where??? Ron S ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 110, Issue 20
Enough enough this is pissing me off! Ron On 13 November 2012 09:49, wayne carter carter1wa...@gmail.com wrote: . Re: Urine absorbent crystals (Justin Sinclair) surely, after hanging yourself out the clearview for a pee, you blokes are not going to hold a plastic bag full of crystals in the breeze too? What about induced yaw? Wayne Carter lurking still. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Urinary crystals
Does anyone out there know where i can buy those crystals which when urinated upon turn everything into an easily manageable gel??? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Urinary crystals
Dear Michael, i have no intention of urinating on you! How ever I recall in the past when flying my own gliders which all have a Pis-o-phones in them, taking great delight when a competitor was underneath. On 12 November 2012 13:43, Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.auwrote: when urinated upon turn everything into an easily manageable gel??? Gee whizz, I don't want to be turned into an easily manageable gel! They must be very powerful crystals if they can do that (i.e. turn everything into an easily manageable gel) ;-) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] clip ons
Now the next question, Where can i get non polarised clip on sunglasses, it seems like the non polarised versions are extinct in WA Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Urinary crystals
Gardening ?? gardening?? i went to the rose gardens at Narromine once, i guess that is near enough. On 12 November 2012 15:03, John Orton johno...@gmail.com wrote: I have been told that the water saving crystals for use in the garden are the same thing. Wetta Soil is one. I recon that committed glider pilots do not know about gardening. Regards, John Orton On 12 November 2012 13:26, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone out there know where i can buy those crystals which when urinated upon turn everything into an easily manageable gel??? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] harmonised turnpoint list
Mike, Undoubtedly it does not actually matter, it just a personal obsessive/compulsive thing. Ron On 11 November 2012 05:42, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.comwrote: Does it matter? If you have one giant list you have to edit it anyway to get it down to the places you use at any given site. If doing a badge, record or contest flight as long as you go to the actual declared place (use the same list for the declaration and the nav database) and have at least one GPS fix in sector you are OK. It simply doesn't even matter if the turnpoint is displaced from the physical feature with GPS flight recording. We could save a lot of anxiety by simply using a half degree grid of lat and long over the soaring areas. Goes even more so for AAT where you don't even go to a specific place anyway. Don't get me started on the stupidity of the current rules for the girly men task though. Mike At 12:03 PM 10/11/2012, you wrote: Just to get those going who aren't gliding this weekend what are we or the GFA doing/have done about producing a harmonised turn point list for the whole of Australia? Eg Tocumwal uses Burrumbuttock and so does Temora and Benalla and Burrumbuttock turns out to be in three different places, albeit not by much. The UK has had a national harmonised list for years, why cant we?? Ron __**_ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.**on.net Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/**mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring __**_ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.**on.net Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/**mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] WA airspace
Hi there, does anyone know where i can get an Airspace file in Open Air format for WA??The one on WW Turnpoint Exchange has nothing in it. Thanks Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Multi class Nationals 2013/14
Does anyone know where the multiclass Nats for season 2013/14 are likely to be? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Multi class Nationals 2013/14
Thank you Tom. Ron On 18 September 2012 13:06, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: Schedule is for Queensland. Site yet to be finalised as far as I know. Perhaps after Sports Committee meeting Friday I will know more. Regards, Tom -- *From:* Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Tuesday, 18 September 2012 9:52 PM *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Multi class Nationals 2013/14 Does anyone know where the multiclass Nats for season 2013/14 are likely to be? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Something to make you laugh, Ozzie IFR waypoint fun, this is true!
I have a very ominous example of way point names! On the way down the Red sea into Jedda you will find one way point which is DEDLI and the very very next one is OSAMA. I have to say i was shocked to read that. Ron S On 13 September 2012 07:47, Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.au wrote: This is funny, Airservices Australia have a sense of humour: http://makingtimeforflying.blogspot.com.au/2009/08/youll-come-flying-mat ilda-with-me.html Look in the Airservices Austrlia designated airspace book: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dah/dah.pdf Section 21 - IFR Waypoints Lat Long WONSA -22 110 JOLLY -23 110 SWAGY -24 110 CAMBS -25 110 BUIYA -26 110 BYLLA -27 110 BONGS -28 110 UNDER -29 110 ACOOL -30 110 EBARR -31 110 TREES -32 110 The Yanks like a laugh too. There is this classic one from RNAV (GPS) Approach for RWY 16 Portsmouth Airport in New Hampshire USA (KPSM). Imagine entering this in the navigation computer! See: https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1209/pdf/00678R16.PDF If you start at the initial approach fix (IAF) in the northwest: ITAWT To the intermediate fix (IF): ITAWA To the final approach fix (FAF): PUDYE Missed approach point: TTATT Missed approach holding point: IDEED ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Qld comps
With the approach of the Qld comps I was wondering if any NSW entrant (preferably near Sydney) could take a bag of wing covers and a one man rigging tool from Syd to Qld for me?? Unfortunately they are not small items!! Thanks, Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Importing trailers
Thank you Gary all noted. ron On 25 July 2012 16:48, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: ** Ron, Why do you want the empty weight? If you are importing a trailer into Australia it is not required information. Some of what follows was covered in my more general article on Importing a Glider, which appeared in Gliding Australia Issue 3 November - December 2011. What you must do, is fill in the form Application to Import a Small Road Trailer. This is available as a download from the Australian Government Department of Infrastructure and Transport www.infrastructure.gov.au. Parts 3 4 of that document request that you supply answers to many questions about the trailer. In Part 4, Trailer Mass rather than Trailer Weight is used. There are 6 questions relating to Trailer Mass. To be considered a small trailer the trailer must have an Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM), of 4.5 tonnes or less, so you need the ATM, you need the Tare Mass, and you need the Gross Trailer Mass (GTM) . *in Kg.* All these terms are defined in other (referenced), documents. I suggest that you get a high definition, close up image of the trailer identification plate. Some of the info will be there. The plate will also have the VIN No. In the case of an Alfred Spindelberger (Cobra) trailer you can contact the factory quite easily at this address - co...@cobratrailer.com -co...@cobratrailer.com. Supply at least the VIN No. If you have the ID plate image, attach that too. Also include the name of the first owner of the trailer if you know it. At least some of the Spindelberger people are fluent in English. The Company will quickly get an email letter back to you with ALL the info. required to make the application for the import permit relating to that trailer - if you ask the right questions. I don't know if they keep a record of the EMPTY weight (mass). I did not ask, as I did not need it. Include that letter, the ID plate image, a photocopy of your Drivers Licence, and the fee, with your application for the permit. I suggest that you also include the following sentence in your covering letter: I declare that the trailer will be modified (if necessary), to comply with the ADR's that apply at the date the trailer is first supplied to the market, or first used in transport in Australia. Just one thing more. You use the word trailers in the header. If you are in fact importing more than one trailer, include them all on the one application. That way you only have to pay the same one fee, which I note has remained unchanged for some years at $50.00. Good luck. Gary - Original Message - *From:* Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com *To:* aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:17 PM *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Importing trailers Does anybody out there have clue as to what a standard class Cobra or Swan trailer weighs when empty?? Ron S -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5153 - Release Date: 07/24/12 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Importing trailers
Does anybody out there have clue as to what a standard class Cobra or Swan trailer weighs when empty?? Ron S ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Importing trailers
Thank you very much guys. ron On 25 July 2012 12:01, John Trezise tre...@ozemail.com.au wrote: 1988 Cobra with Fibreglass top was 500 kg ** ** John ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Australian team blog links
Just wondering if somebody can give me the links to the various AUS team blogs please? For Uvalde. Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
