christian dreams of murder...
http://www.pandagon.net/archives/1992.htm Murder, Murder WASHINGTON-January 6, 2004. A paramilitary organization calling itself the Christian Liberation Front changed the balance of power in Washington by a pair of brutal attacks this afternoon. A force estimated at about 200 CLF commandos stormed the Supreme Court building, killing 35 people, including five Supreme Court Justices. At the same time, a contingent of 1,000 CLF paramilitaries attacked the Hart Senate Office Building, where a Senate Democratic Caucus meeting was being held. Approximately 50 people were killed in the attack. Once the commandos had seized the building, they systematically killed Democratic senators from states with Republican governors. Here is a list of the 21 senators killed Daniel Akaka Byron Dorgan Mary Landrieu John Breaux Bob Graham Blanche Lincoln Hillary Clinton Ernest Hollings Barbara Mikulski Kent Conrad Daniel Inouyye David Pryor Tom Daschle Tim Johnson Harry Reid Mark Dayton Ted Kennedy Paul Sarbanes Chris Dodd John Kerry Chuch Schumer Joe Lieberman was campaigning in South Carolina, and missed the assassins. The attackers turned themselves in to police, and are proudly confessing their crimes, cooperating with authorities. If the governors appoint Republican replacements, there will be 72 Republicans in the US Senate until replacement elections can be held. Even if a few Democrats are named, there will be likely at least 60 votes to vote for cloture and appoint replacements for the slain Supreme Court justices, changing the balance of power on the court. Right-wing Christian posts a fantasy about assassinating 21 Democratic Senators, 5 Supreme Court Justices, and 59 other innocent people for an added bit of flavor, then has the audacity to ruminate over it as if he's asking whether or not we should have a strong dollar policy. Be careful to note, he's not *advocating* it...he's just saying, you know...he thinks about it sometimes. And has to debate whether or not this is a good idea. http://markbyron.typepad.com/main/2003/11/the_usefulness__1.html Would five extra conservatives on the Supreme Court and a filibuster-free Senate be worth the bloodshed? It is opposing evil, given some of the less-than-biblical decisions that have emanated from the court. That you have to ask tells us all we need to know. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
Doug Pensinger wrote: For the information of those who haven't been on the list for very long, or who might not understand even though they have, the reason I do not respond to JDG is that he and I have had several less than civilized encounters and I decided after the last one (over a year ago) that the list would be better off if we did not interact. This is not an entirely selfless act as the aforementioned encounters tend to be unpleasant and stressfull and I'd just as soon do without even if it means missing a spirited debate (which I enjoy). Well you've got my support and I have to say that I do the same. My debate encounters with JDG (and strangly enough only with JDG) have not been exactly civilised in the past either. And for that I am truly sorry. But by now I've been ignoring him for a long time and it works for me. Let me assure you that you get used to it even if you mis out on a couple of debates. :o) Ever since I got the 'you are a nazi' as well as a couple of other even less flattering insults from him I didn't see any point in continued debate on his pet peeves over and over again. I hold to the viewpoint that we oldtimers by now know where we stand. That doesn't mean that I'd not be happy to discuss old enraging topics again with others though. ;o) Sonja :o) GCU: Verbally untouchable ;o) xGCU: I've learned to first stay dead calm under verbal abuse and think on it for a while. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
Dan Minette wrote: As for South America, my uncle talked a lot about the relatively low attendance at his parish. I'm guessing slightly more than 1% went to church. Muy Catolico, pero no fanatico. That's true here in Rio de Janeiro. About 70% of the population claims to be Catholic, but of these maybe 5% go the the Church even eventually. The huge majority only goes to Church to attend weddings and 7th-day mass. And, of course, even those that go to Church regularly don't give a damn about any RCC regulation that would limit their pleasures: they don't eat meat on the Easter Friday, but they may chose that day to do an abortion. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
I withdraw my earlier question. You clearly are either drunk or on drugs. At 12:57 AM 11/14/03 -0600, The Fool wrote: http://www.pandagon.net/archives/1992.htm Murder, Murder WASHINGTON-January 6, 2004. A paramilitary organization calling itself the Christian Liberation Front changed the balance of power in Washington by a pair of brutal attacks this afternoon. A force estimated at about 200 CLF commandos stormed the Supreme Court building, killing 35 people, including five Supreme Court Justices. At the same time, a contingent of 1,000 CLF paramilitaries attacked the Hart Senate Office Building, where a Senate Democratic Caucus meeting was being held. Approximately 50 people were killed in the attack. Once the commandos had seized the building, they systematically killed Democratic senators from states with Republican governors. Here is a list of the 21 senators killed Daniel Akaka Byron Dorgan Mary Landrieu John Breaux Bob Graham Blanche Lincoln Hillary Clinton Ernest Hollings Barbara Mikulski Kent Conrad Daniel Inouyye David Pryor Tom Daschle Tim Johnson Harry Reid Mark Dayton Ted Kennedy Paul Sarbanes Chris Dodd John Kerry Chuch Schumer Joe Lieberman was campaigning in South Carolina, and missed the assassins. The attackers turned themselves in to police, and are proudly confessing their crimes, cooperating with authorities. If the governors appoint Republican replacements, there will be 72 Republicans in the US Senate until replacement elections can be held. Even if a few Democrats are named, there will be likely at least 60 votes to vote for cloture and appoint replacements for the slain Supreme Court justices, changing the balance of power on the court. Right-wing Christian posts a fantasy about assassinating 21 Democratic Senators, 5 Supreme Court Justices, and 59 other innocent people for an added bit of flavor, then has the audacity to ruminate over it as if he's asking whether or not we should have a strong dollar policy. Be careful to note, he's not *advocating* it...he's just saying, you know...he thinks about it sometimes. And has to debate whether or not this is a good idea. http://markbyron.typepad.com/main/2003/11/the_usefulness__1.html Would five extra conservatives on the Supreme Court and a filibuster-free Senate be worth the bloodshed? It is opposing evil, given some of the less-than-biblical decisions that have emanated from the court. That you have to ask tells us all we need to know. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
Dan Minette wrote: It may also be worthwhile to know what the nature of these Indian Muslims who spoke out was. If they were people who Ritu happened to know, it would be as anecdotal as Erik suggested. These weren't people I knew on a personal basis. These were people I saw on the news and TV programs, people I read about in newspapers and magazines, people who wrote in to the print media: movie stars, politicians, social activists, writers and poets, teachers and professors, college students, rickshaw-wallahs, vegetable vendors, people being interviewed inside mosques, people about whom all I know is this: their names indicated they were were muslim, they were shocked by 9/11 and they hailed from small towns of India. But, if one could list important Islamic teachers and leaders in India and point out that they have consistently spoke out against the actions of OBL, then it would be in line with what Gautam asked for. I don't think any of the above could be accurately called the important Islamic teachers and leaders in India. Sure some of them are in a position of leadership, some are famous and exert a lot of social influence...but none of them are Islamic leaders. They are just political-social leaders who happen to be muslim. It would also be inaccurate to say that they have consistently spoken out against OBL - they did so right after 9/11 but by the end of the year, they were busy with other things [the attack on Indian Parliament, Akshardham temple]. Come February and the Godhra-Gujarat carnages, OBL just dropped off their radar. I would say that they have been consistently speaking out against the Modi govt. and the BJP, but then their lives are directly impacted by the latter's actions. If we are talking of Islamic leaders and teachers, well, I am not sure where they stand. Certain Islamic scholars have certainly written many articles on OBL's strategy and theology, stressing on the need for Islamic reform; I know the Shahi Imam thinks OBL is a wonderful guy but that is about it really. I don't know what the other Imams, or the Sunni Waqf board etc. think or say about OBL. They might easily have expressed their reactions and opinions in the first few days after 9/11 and I would have missed the same. I started noting the religious affiliations of the people expressing disgust only *after* I read about Shahi Imam's statement. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Bizarre baby names
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3268161.stm Americans are increasingly turning to the world of popular culture to name their children, a study has found. Children have been named after big brands as diverse as beauty company L'Oreal, car firm Chevrolet and designer clothes company Armani. There are even two little boys, one in Michigan and one in Texas, called ESPN after the sports channel. Psychology professor Cleveland Evans discovered the trend after surveying US social security records for 2000. Mr Evans, a professor at Bellevue University, Nebraska, has studied baby names in the US for 25 years. He has found that car models are a popular source of inspiration; 22 girls are registered as having the name Infiniti while 55 boys answer to Chevy and five girls to Celica. Seven boys were found to have the name Del Monte - after the food company - and no less than 49 boys were called Canon, after the camera. Designer firms and types of clothing were also well represented, with almost 300 girls recorded with the name Armani, six boys called Timberland and seven boys called Denim. In some cases it seems something else was on some parents' minds - six boys were named after Courvoisier cognac. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ If you listen to a UNIX shell, can you hear the C? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bizarre baby names
On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 01:43:15PM +, William T Goodall wrote: Seven boys were found to have the name Del Monte - after the food company - and no less than 49 boys were called Canon, after the camera. Ummm, there is another usage of canon that might be more likely than the camera brand for many of those 49. And yet another slightly different spelling that may have been the intent, as well. Although the two ESPN boys are rather unambiguous. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Cocoa Has More Antioxidants Than Red Wine, Tea
On 14 Nov 2003, at 2:01 am, Reggie Bautista wrote:
William T Goodall wrote:
The UK equivalent of the Moon Pie is the Wagon Wheel (most popular
with jam rather than original). That could be eaten with Irn Bru for
maximum fat and sugar.
http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/previous.php3?item=64
Maybe it's just bad photos, but these look incredibly thin compared to
a Moon
Pie.
15mm thick, 74mm diameter :) With 28% Chocolate Flavoured Coating, 18%
Mallow and 7% Raspberry Flavour Plum Jam.
The real question is, are they any good? :-)
Certainly not good *for you* :) But they have a sugary fatty sticky
yumminess.
http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/irn-bru/index.asp
Hmm... sounds a little like Mountain Dew Live Wire. Has anyone on
this list
had both Live Wire and Irn Bru? If so, how do they compare?
http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/mountaindewlivewire/
2 Stars compared to Irn-Bru's 3.5. Also Irn-Bru has the unique tang
of ammonium ferric citrate ('iron brew')...
--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so
few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping
looks so silly. - Randy Cohen.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Dastardly spammer
Nick: I'm a slightly above newbie internet user - I'm contacting you out of frustration. I googled back to your commentary about Mediacolumn Marketing and your conversation with Chris Miseresky there (from September 10). One of my hotmail based kids must have hit one of their pages, opening a door to getting a Mirer(sp?) bar on my IE browser. I've tried everything including playing a little (remember, I'm a little past newbie) with the registry - removed everything I can find, set my firewall to block them and I still can't get the damn bar out of the browser. Have you had any further experience with these bastards? I've even reinstalled Windows 2K IE. Any suggestions short of driving to Toronto to talk with the jerk myself? Thanks for any help. Jack Amico Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence: Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan press on has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933) The 30th President of the United States. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dastardly spammer
Jack Amico wrote: Nick: One of my hotmail based kids must have hit one of their pages, opening a door to getting a Mirer(sp?) bar on my IE browser. I've tried everything including playing a little (remember, I'm a little past newbie) with the registry - removed everything I can find, set my firewall to block them and I still can't get the damn bar out of the browser. Have you had any further experience with these bastards? I've even reinstalled Windows 2K IE. Any suggestions short of driving to Toronto to talk with the jerk myself? Try Spybot Search and Destroy: http://www.safer-networking.org/ and AdAware: http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/ __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
- Original Message - From: Sonja van Baardwijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:12 AM Subject: Re: Explanation Doug Pensinger wrote: For the information of those who haven't been on the list for very long, or who might not understand even though they have, the reason I do not respond to JDG is that he and I have had several less than civilized encounters and I decided after the last one (over a year ago) that the list would be better off if we did not interact. This is not an entirely selfless act as the aforementioned encounters tend to be unpleasant and stressfull and I'd just as soon do without even if it means missing a spirited debate (which I enjoy). Well you've got my support and I have to say that I do the same. My debate encounters with JDG (and strangly enough only with JDG) have not been exactly civilised in the past either. And for that I am truly sorry. But by now I've been ignoring him for a long time and it works for me. Let me assure you that you get used to it even if you mis out on a couple of debates. :o) Ever since I got the 'you are a nazi' as well as a couple of other even less flattering insults from him I didn't see any point in continued debate on his pet peeves over and over again. I hold to the viewpoint that we oldtimers by now know where we stand. That doesn't mean that I'd not be happy to discuss old enraging topics again with others though. ;o) I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are religious are expected to regularly read posts that proclaim them evil, mentally defective, etc. and let the insults just slide off their backs. People who are criticized by conservatives like JDG have the right to be indignant. I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dastardly spammer
Jack Amico wrote: Nick: I'm a slightly above newbie internet user - I'm contacting you out of frustration. I googled back to your commentary about Mediacolumn Marketing and your conversation with Chris Miseresky there (from September 10). One of my hotmail based kids must have hit one of their pages, opening a door to getting a Mirer(sp?) bar on my IE browser. Steve Sloan's suggestion is the same that I'd offer. I didn't know that those guys are also distributing adware, but it doesn't surprise me. We got hit by them three times and their ISP, Cogent, did nothing. And we got hit by other spammers by way of Cogent, which prompted me to do some searching about them. Cogent has a terrible reputation for tolerating -- or at least failing to intervene promptly -- spammers. And sadly, we also found that some spammers were successful in abusing our proxy server to distribute their junk. It's secure now -- we've had several spam-blocking organizations test it. Despite that, a spammer from China continued to try to use it for at least a week, sending thousands of messages, which went nowhere, of course. His ISP, Cable Wireless, didn't do anything, either, despite three complaints. Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On 14 Nov 2003, at 4:20 pm, Dan Minette wrote: I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. Perhaps it is the way he expresses himself rather than the actual content? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ 'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dastardly spammer
On 14 Nov 2003 at 9:13, Steve Sloan II wrote: Jack Amico wrote: Nick: One of my hotmail based kids must have hit one of their pages, opening a door to getting a Mirer(sp?) bar on my IE browser. I've tried everything including playing a little (remember, I'm a little past newbie) with the registry - removed everything I can find, set my firewall to block them and I still can't get the damn bar out of the browser. Have you had any further experience with these bastards? I've even reinstalled Windows 2K IE. Any suggestions short of driving to Toronto to talk with the jerk myself? Try Spybot Search and Destroy: http://www.safer-networking.org/ and AdAware: http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/ If that fails, then try Hijack This (http://mjc1.com/mirror/hjt/) Be a bit careful with that though, make a restore point is you're using XP before you remove anything. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
Dan Minette wrote: I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. But that's logical. The number of insults a religious person take with good grace compound in less years in the Purgatory [or extra virgins, depending on the person's faith :-)] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] I withdraw my earlier question. You clearly are either drunk or on drugs. I didn't write this, a christian fantatic wrote it. It show the way some people think they can achieve their fascist theocracy goals. No. And No. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
On 14 Nov 2003, at 6:19 pm, The Fool wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] I withdraw my earlier question. You clearly are either drunk or on drugs. I didn't write this, a christian fantatic wrote it. It show the way some people think they can achieve their fascist theocracy goals. No. And No. Maybe you should make more use of xxx or 'xxx' or `xxx` and also xxx and then it would be clearer which bits were written by a fanatic :) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ If you listen to a UNIX shell, can you hear the C? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: christian dreams of murder... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:04:03 + On 14 Nov 2003, at 6:19 pm, The Fool wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] I withdraw my earlier question. You clearly are either drunk or on drugs. I didn't write this, a christian fantatic wrote it. It show the way some people think they can achieve their fascist theocracy goals. No. And No. Maybe you should make more use of xxx or 'xxx' or `xxx` and also xxx and then it would be clearer which bits were written by a fanatic :) It really would have been nice if he had posted the full intro from Mark Byron, rather than just alluding to it and brushing it aside. But that would have diluted Fool's message, I guess. Sort of funny coming from someone who constantly rails against the 'fascist thought police' and 'manipulation of the truth'. Intro follows: ~~~ The Usefulness of Civil Disobedience-Part II-The Bonhoffer Option [Update 6:30AM 11-14 - I do not support the scenario that follows. I was expressing a sentiment that we can fall prey to IF we let the combating evil rhetoric go too far. Peaceful civil disobedience can often lead to violent civil disobedience. I think the rhetoric of Operation Rescue types can help lead to Paul Hill type assassins (or for those of you on the left, Greenpeace leading to ELF); I'm trying to nip that impulse in the bud in me and in others. [11:45AM-no, the ELF or Earth First haven't done killed anyone that we know of. I had thought that tree-spiking had killed someone in the past, but my memory was faulty there; here's a seemingly-good piece on the issue that says that people have been hurt but not killed by spiking.] Why shouldn't we take up arms against our enemy? Because the US government is much more our ally than our enemy. It is a system, flawed as it is, that allows the Gospel to flourish, relatively unfettered. We need to work with in the system, not try to start a second revolution. For those of you on the left who want to label me a typically sick Christian, it's your legal right to do so, even if it doesn't reflect reality well. I've had to take down some profane comments. I will admit to having occasional violent thought come through my mind, but I do not physically act on them (at least since coming to the Lord two decades ago), and repent of them when those thoughts do happen.] ~~~ Jon Le Blog: http:/zarq.livejournal.com _ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list how many very non-religious people on list how many people have killfiles if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people Julia doesn't use killfiles, certainly not on mailing lists ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Resemblances
We've been noticing Tommy's resemblance to various people. In some ways, he looks like my father (who he's named after). He looks something like Sammy. He's got his daddy's chin. And last night, I realized he looks kinda like Paul McCrane. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
would have diluted Fool's message, I guess. Sort of funny coming from someone who constantly rails against the 'fascist thought police' and 'manipulation of the truth'. I'm glad I'm not the only one whose been thinking this same thing... Intro follows: ~~~ The Usefulness of Civil Disobedience-Part II-The Bonhoffer Option snip Puts it all into perspective, I think... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Resemblances
We've been noticing Tommy's resemblance to various people. In some ways, he looks like my father (who he's named after). He looks something like Sammy. He's got his daddy's chin. And last night, I realized he looks kinda like Paul McCrane. Did he kinda resemble Winston Churchill when he was born? :) Damon, sans cigar of course... = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] would have diluted Fool's message, I guess. Sort of funny coming from someone who constantly rails against the 'fascist thought police' and 'manipulation of the truth'. I'm glad I'm not the only one whose been thinking this same thing... Intro follows: ~~~ The Usefulness of Civil Disobedience-Part II-The Bonhoffer Option snip Puts it all into perspective, I think... You mean the sugar coating on this mass murder plot, given with a wink wink, nod nod? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I gave a link to it. This nut goes on to describe a viscious coup attempt in vivid detail, mapping out which particular people need to be killed in detail, listing their names. He says specifically that he thinks about this a lot. Then he says don't do this this would be bad, wink wink, nod nod. This does not seem to have the sense of declaring Would no one rid me of this troublesome priest? Although one imagines that the Fool would approve of that sentiment... No. I do not advocate murder. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 2:49 PM Subject: Re: christian dreams of murder... No. I do not advocate murder. wink wink, nod nod Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] No. I do not advocate murder. wink wink, nod nod *Plonk* ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
UNIX and C (was Re: christian dreams of murder...)
William T Goodall wrote: If you listen to a UNIX shell, can you hear the C? Possibly, although I'm still trying to get a grep on the situation. Pondering it gives me head AIX, especially with so many other issues trying to vi for my attention. Reggie Bautista With Apologies to Lee Shouse Maru _ From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
On 14 Nov 2003 at 14:30, The Fool wrote: From: Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 14 Nov 2003, at 6:19 pm, The Fool wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] I withdraw my earlier question. You clearly are either drunk or on drugs. I didn't write this, a christian fantatic wrote it. It show the way some people think they can achieve their fascist theocracy goals. No. And No. Maybe you should make more use of xxx or 'xxx' or `xxx` and also xxx and then it would be clearer which bits were written by a fanatic :) It really would have been nice if he had posted the full intro from Mark Byron, rather than just alluding to it and brushing it aside. But that would have diluted Fool's message, I guess. Sort of funny coming from someone who constantly rails against the 'fascist thought police' and 'manipulation of the truth'. I gave a link to it. This nut goes on to describe a viscious coup attempt in vivid detail, mapping out which particular people need to be killed in detail, listing their names. He says specifically that he thinks about this a lot. Then he says don't do this this would be bad, wink wink, nod nod. And you think nutters are any less nutters if they're secular because? There is ALLWAYS an irreduceable number of nutters in any Human society. The linked chap is just one of them. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fanatics (was: christian dreams of murder...)
--- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.pandagon.net/archives/1992.htm Murder, Murder WASHINGTON-January 6, 2004. A paramilitary organization calling itself the Christian Liberation Front changed the balance of power in Washington by a pair of brutal attacks this afternoon. snip sigh Please title such articles more accurately. The vast majority of Christians - I'd guess nearly 100% of mainstreamers - would not support, condone or 'secretly applaud' such an act; in fact they'd consider it their civic duty to report knowledge of such action to the authorities. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: christian dreams of murder... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:30:32 -0600 From: Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 14 Nov 2003, at 6:19 pm, The Fool wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] I withdraw my earlier question. You clearly are either drunk or on drugs. I didn't write this, a christian fantatic wrote it. It show the way some people think they can achieve their fascist theocracy goals. No. And No. Maybe you should make more use of xxx or 'xxx' or `xxx` and also xxx and then it would be clearer which bits were written by a fanatic :) It really would have been nice if he had posted the full intro from Mark Byron, rather than just alluding to it and brushing it aside. But that would have diluted Fool's message, I guess. Sort of funny coming from someone who constantly rails against the 'fascist thought police' and 'manipulation of the truth'. I gave a link to it. This nut goes on to describe a viscious coup attempt in vivid detail, mapping out which particular people need to be killed in detail, listing their names. He says specifically that he thinks about this a lot. Then he says don't do this this would be bad, wink wink, nod nod. Oh, please. He's quite clear in the intro that it's a work of fiction. A 'wink wink nod nod' scenario would have been a single line which said 'Of course, I don't support this.' Instead, he wrote three quite honest-sounding paragraphs explaining his position. IMO, you're drawing conclusions that have no evidence to support them. And, just because someone writes something doesn't mean they are advocating it, and to imply they are with (I repeat) _no evidence_ is the worst kind of thought police manipulation of reality. Out of curiosity, do you object to Tom Clancy novels? After all, they contain plausible scenarios by which our country and government heads could be attacked by all sorts of terrorists, resulting in the deaths of millions. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list I prefer spiritual, but I suppose you could place me in this category. ;) how many very non-religious people on list how many people have killfiles None currently (I presume this is the same as blocking a particular sender?). if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people Of the temporarily-blocked I've had on this List, I don't know their status. if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people Debbi who does delete certain threads/posters unread from time to time, but this rarely occurs except during periods of significant personal stress -- well, I *do* toss out the baseball/football posts frequently :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Explanation Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:19:58 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list how many very non-religious people on list how many people have killfiles if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people Julia doesn't use killfiles, certainly not on mailing lists Is this a poll? :-) Somehow I doubt you're asking seriously, but if you want, I could easily set up an actual poll up at Livejournal and invite list members to participate anonymously. We could even arrange it so the page would not log participants' isp addresses. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
I, for one, don't think Fox is unbiased. I think it's about as biased as CNN or PBS - considerably less than NPR, though, to be honest. It's just in the opposite direction. The hysterical reaction to Fox, it seems to me, has more to do with the sudden shock of the leftist intelligentisia at finding that it doesn't monopolize American information any more. With all due respect, this is just nonsense. Fox is openly antagonistic to the left - openly so. Derisive, disrespectful, jingoistic, etc. They don't make even the slightest pretense otherwise. CNN at least makes an attempt to show the other side. PBS and NPR are also much more variegated than you give them credit for - not to mention reaching a far smaller audience. If you like Fox, fine. If you agree with them, that's your right. But don't pretend to yourself or to anyone else that they are anything except, essentially, the TV arm of the Republican Party. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: On trolling
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Gabriel Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 07:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: On trolling Good no one around here does that. Because none of us has a single agenda or point of view which we consistently hold to no matter what the circumstance Are you trying to insinuate that some of us are obsessed with SPORTS??? Perish the thought! :-) Jon Baseball. Football. Hockey. Soccer. Badminton. Maru. Damn, guilty as charged. Now, if only I could find a Portland Timbers fan on Brin-L to taunt.. ^_^ -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Veterens Bushwhacked
What do you expect from these scumbags in the White House? They announce nice-sounding proposals and reap the benefit from people who want to believe that their (in this case not really) elected officials are on the side of the angels. Then, after getting good press for their announcement - and after the press has turned its attention elsehwere - they quietly do nothing (at best; the exact opposite of what they announced, at worst). Then, whenever anyone points this out, someone who desperately wants to continue to delude himself that the Bushitters are not cynical lying scum, bleats that they should still get the credit for meaning well. But the list of broken promises is staggering: Afghanistan, the environment, veterans, schools, international AIDS funding - all impressive sounding initiatives, all left to rot and vanish - how long can they get away with this cynical manipulation? Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
Out of curiosity, do you object to Tom Clancy novels? After all, they contain plausible scenarios by which our country and government heads could be attacked by all sorts of terrorists, resulting in the deaths of millions. Oh, come on, it's not even remotely comparable. In Clancy's novels, the terrorists are always quite clearly the BAD GUYS. He never muses about how something awful could happen and then pretends to be opposed to it. It's always quite clear that Clancy really definitely IS opposed to the evil in his books. On the other hand, this Christian guy's musings, especially with that rather pallid introduction, do not really sound too much to me like The Turner Diaries. So I think we're paying far too much attention to one little nobody's nothings. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Resemblances
Julia Thompson wrote: We've been noticing Tommy's resemblance to various people. In some ways, he looks like my father (who he's named after). He looks something like Sammy. He's got his daddy's chin. I saw a documentary that mentioned some research where babies tended to look like the relatives of the alleged father's side. It would be some kind of survival mechanism - we know the mother, but can never [before DNA testing :-)] know the father. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Resemblances
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Damon Agretto wrote: We've been noticing Tommy's resemblance to various people. In some ways, he looks like my father (who he's named after). He looks something like Sammy. He's got his daddy's chin. And last night, I realized he looks kinda like Paul McCrane. Did he kinda resemble Winston Churchill when he was born? :) Damon, sans cigar of course... I think Catherine had a closer resemblance to Winston Churchill. Tommy was too broad at some crucial part of the face. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Veterens Bushwhacked
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you expect from these scumbags in the White House? They announce nice-sounding proposals and reap the benefit from people who want to believe that their (in this case not really) elected officials are on the side of the angels. Then, after getting good press for their announcement - and after the press has turned its attention elsehwere - they quietly do nothing (at best; the exact opposite of what they announced, at worst). Then, whenever anyone points this out, someone who desperately wants to continue to delude himself that the Bushitters are not cynical lying scum, bleats that they should still get the credit for meaning well. But the list of broken promises is staggering: Afghanistan, the environment, veterans, schools, international AIDS funding - all impressive sounding initiatives, all left to rot and vanish - how long can they get away with this cynical manipulation? Tom Beck Out of idle curiosity, do you know _anything_ about the VA system? Are you this contemptuous of everyone else, btw, about everything, or just about politics? = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
--- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] would have diluted Fool's message, I guess. Sort of funny coming from someone who constantly rails against the 'fascist thought police' and 'manipulation of the truth'. I'm glad I'm not the only one whose been thinking this same thing... Intro follows: ~~~ The Usefulness of Civil Disobedience-Part II-The Bonhoffer Option snip Puts it all into perspective, I think... You mean the sugar coating on this mass murder plot, given with a wink wink, nod nod? No; that you selectively edit your posted articles to match your agenda, that you allege this is a credible threat of violence againt the Government, and that you characterize Christians in this way. Rather than mass postings of articles from the net, try in the future to develop debating skills and methods to support your arguments. Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Veterens Bushwhacked
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: Re: Veterens Bushwhacked Out of idle curiosity, do you know _anything_ about the VA system? I don't know much about what it is now, but the feeling that I've had is that it was the hospital system vets could go to if they were really really desperate. After WWII, my mom worked there, and she told stories about a favorite lobotomy patient. He use to be the crackerjack of his outfit, but had tremendous readjustment problems, so they gave him a lobotomy to make him harmless. My uncle, after he lost part of his leg, lived there for a year or so before he died. I know my father did not want to have to end up in a vets hospital. I know you didn't ask me, but your questions brought back memories. They are not a systematic analysis, and I have no way of verifying how well these stories reflect the system as a whole. Obviously lobotomies are not being done now, they were part of the mental health profession at the time, and not limited to vets hospitals, IIRC. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On 14 Nov 2003, at 9:22 pm, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 14 Nov 2003 at 14:19, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list how many very non-religious people on list how many people have killfiles me You have a killfile. if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people 1 And you are religious and have killfiled one non-religious poster. if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people 1 No wait! You are non-religious and have killfiled one religious poster. That doesn't add up. Perhaps you meant something else? Or perhaps this stinky head-cold has made me more confuserated than I thought... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On 14 Nov 2003, at 8:19 pm, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list how many very non-religious people on list I'm mildly non-religious how many people have killfiles if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people And I have no killfile. I have a glance at most list-mails because of thread-creep, but I don't read all of certain threads, especially those about sport. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons. - Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Veterens Bushwhacked
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out of idle curiosity, do you know _anything_ about the VA system? I don't know much about what it is now, but the feeling that I've had is that it was the hospital system vets could go to if they were really really desperate. After WWII, my mom worked there, and she told stories about a favorite lobotomy patient. He use to be the crackerjack of his outfit, but had tremendous readjustment problems, so they gave him a lobotomy to make him harmless. Dan M. The reason I ask is that the VA system is, legendarily, perhaps the most inefficient (and, given what it actually achieves, overfunded) part of the government. Any attempts to do _anything_ with it are, of course, met with the claim that the President is betraying our veterans. So it just gets left alone. The end result is that it's a disaster. If Bush is trying to do something about it - and I can't evaluate his plan - then that's, at least in the abstract, quite impressive. The VA system is probably the #1 target of good government reformers, and I wouldn't have guessed that Bush was willing to spend the political capital to reform it. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On 14 Nov 2003 at 23:40, William T Goodall wrote: On 14 Nov 2003, at 9:22 pm, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 14 Nov 2003 at 14:19, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list how many very non-religious people on list how many people have killfiles me You have a killfile. An absolute necessity considering some of the frothing idiots out there on the web. Take, for example, the Fallout Community and certain of the Something Awful FYAD posters (no, I don't have a SA account, but I've criticised SA on a public forum before...) if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people 1 And you are religious and have killfiled one non-religious poster. if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people 1 No wait! You are non-religious and have killfiled one religious poster. That doesn't add up. Perhaps you meant something else? Or perhaps this stinky head-cold has made me more confuserated than I thought... Not you. I don't think either of the people I killfiled are that regular posters anymore. (no-one else is quoting them anyway) I have a few on the culture list, because the individuals are scientoligists and made them offensive to me off the list. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list how many very non-religious people on list I'm kinda floating the boundary between religious and not... can't really say where I fall now. Pondering. how many people have killfiles I used to have one, it got zapped when my hard-drive failed at the end of summer, and I haven't really had a need for it again. if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people When I had a killfile for this list, I only had a total of 3 people in it (3 people over the life of the killfile, the most at one time was only 2). They were not people I had ideological differences with. Of the people I killfiled, one was posting things I found *very* inapropriate, another was posting things that I found *very* inflamatory (not remotely related to religion), and the last had sent me a rather cocky-sounding message saying that they had killfiled me and, after a while, I decided to respond in kind. Additionally, for the first two, the killfile was simply a seperate folder that I would still read occasionally. Only on the last, the response to the person who killfiled me, had I set to delete messages upon recipt. All of that is gone now though, as I stated before. I really haven't had a need for a killfile since I restored my computer. Julia doesn't use killfiles, certainly not on mailing lists I would definately not killfile anyone on a list that I was moderating, that much is certain, but if someone is going far enough to get on my killfile, they probably won't stay long on a list that I am moderating (someone has to go pretty far to gain that distinction). Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
This answers the question about whether the antioxidant totals in the cocoa study I posted earlier are per 'pure powdered cocoa' or 'as drunk:' http://www.brightsurf.com/news/nov_03/ACS_news_110603.php Researchers at Cornell University have shown that the popular winter beverage contains more antioxidants per cup than a similar serving of red wine or tea and may be a healthier choice...Their study, which they say is the most complete comparison to date of the total antioxidant content of these three popular beverages, will appear in the Dec. 3 issue of the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific societyThe beverages tested included a cup of hot water containing two tablespoons of pure cocoa powder, ///roughly equivalent to the amount of cocoa in a normal-size packet of instant hot chocolate;/// a cup of water containing a standard size bag of green tea; a cup of black tea; and one glass of red wine (California Merlot). [Slash emphasis mine; no wonder I couldn't find it in PubMed - not out yet!.] Note that there was no milk in the tested liquid; there has been some research suggesting that milk proteins might reduce the bioavailability of tea antioxidants, so it is possible that the same holds for cocoa antioxidants. I think I can live with that. :) This site gives more information about the beneficial chemicals in cacao beans; I didn't know that some company has already marketed cocoa pills. http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/coc_0078.shtml Cocoa and chocolate are products derived from cacao beans, the seeds of the Theobroma cacao tree. Polyphenols comprise about 12 to 18% of the dry weight of cacao beans. About 60% of the polyphenols are in the form of procyanidins (also known as leucocyanidins)... ...Cocoa flavonoids have been shown to inhibit the oxidation of LDL. The oxidation of LDL is thought to be a crucial event in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis. Some of the cocoa flavonoids appear to reduce the expression of phytohemagglutinin-induced interleukin 2 (IL-2) mRNA, as well as the expression of interleukin 1beta (IL-1B), in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC). Reduction of IL-2 and IL-1beta in PBMC could account, in part, for possible anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory activities of cocoa flavonoids... This is a full article from _Current Opinion in Lipidology_ 2002, 13:41-49; Evidence that the antioxidant flavonoids in tea and cocoa are beneficial for cardiovascular health http://keenlab.ucdavis.edu/articles/kris-etherton.pdf Debbi Mocha This Morning Maru :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fox News, we distort, you comply.
In a message dated 11/13/2003 9:56:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alan (I think) Colmes comes to mind, just off the top of my head. I, for one, don't think Fox is unbiased. I think it's about as biased as CNN or PBS - considerably less than NPR, though, to be honest. It's just in the opposite direction. The hysterical reaction to Fox, it seems to me, has more to do with the sudden shock of the leftist intelligentisia at finding that it doesn't monopolize American information any more. Just wondering if you have read Al Frankin's new book. As you know he pretty much takes apart Hannity and O'Reilly. You should know that Colmes was hired by Hannity to be his liberal foil. Colmes is more centrist than anything else and for the most part he is nothing at all. If this is the bes you can up with as balance at Fox it is pretty much proof that Fox is biased. As to other outlets, I have heard you say this before and I would like to see examples of the supposed bias of CNN and the major networks. Frankin had students at your old school research things like the number of negative stories about Bush and Gore and basically George got a free ride and Al got bashed. Let us also be clear that Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch a avowed conservative whose other outlets include The New York Post. Roger Ailes is (oh excuse me was) an operative of the republican party and Brit Hume has let his personal feelings be publically known in conservative publications (the Standard?. Where is CNN's bias. Does a liberal own NBC? Do the major newreaders on these networks make their political beliefs as apparent as Hume? By the way in Frankin's book a survey of journalists found them to be slightly more liberal than the public on some issues and more conservative on others. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Six Sigma
In a message dated 11/13/2003 11:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 10:54 PM 11/13/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone help me with a book or list of books to help me get a basic understanding of Six Sigma principles/implementation. Agh - I am surrounded by sick sigmas. My hospital has a major deal with GE to buy almost everything that uses electricity from them. Part of the deal is that they teach us management skills so I am Six Sigmad CAP (Change acceleration projected_ and Worked Out. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
Andrew Crystall wrote: Not you. I don't think either of the people I killfiled are that regular posters anymore. (no-one else is quoting them anyway) I have a few on the culture list, because the individuals are scientoligists and made them offensive to me off the list. So you are also fanatically anti-religious, for some specific religions. I am surrounded by fanatics!!! Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
William T Goodall wrote: I'm mildly non-religious No, you are fanatically anti-religious :-P Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: snip http://www.brightsurf.com/news/nov_03/ACS_news_110603.php ...The beverages tested included a cup of hot water containing two tablespoons of pure cocoa powder, Have you ever met anyone who makes hot chocolate without SOME form of milk? Whole, 2%, skim, dry milk, something besides water? Darn ivory tower research! :-) Note that there was no milk in the tested liquid; there has been some research suggesting that milk proteins might reduce the bioavailability of tea antioxidants, so it is possible that the same holds for cocoa antioxidants. I think I can live with that. :) I think I get it, in parallel with Hollywood producers and movies, these guys want to squeeze as many publications as possible out of their hot chocolate idea. Next, for the sequel paper, what is the difference in health benefits between milkless hot chocolate and hot chocolate made with milk? Yep! And don't forget the following paper, on 'soymilk cocoa,' and then one on cold chocolate milk vs. hot cocoa, and of course one about hot cocoa with Kahlua vs. with Drambuie... ;} Debbi who found that, when camping, instant hot cocoa is pretty good with a dollop of peppermint schnapps... :} __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
In a message dated 11/14/2003 4:43:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He's quite clear in the intro that it's a work of fiction. A 'wink wink nod nod' scenario would have been a single line which said 'Of course, I don't support this.' Instead, he wrote three quite honest-sounding paragraphs explaining his position. IMO, you're drawing conclusions that have no evidence to support them. And, just because someone writes something doesn't mean they are advocating it, and to imply they are with (I repeat) _no evidence_ is the worst kind of thought police manipulation of reality. Out of curiosity, do you object to Tom Clancy novels? After all, they contain plausible scenarios by which our country and government heads could be attacked by all sorts of terrorists, resulting in the deaths of millions. You are not seriously comparing this to Clancy are you? Oh my god there really is a conspiracy out there; I have been manuevered into liking Clancy better than something else. Lets get real. This guy is of course a nut, but his fantasy is not a popular fiction it is a wish (kind of like me wishing that Rebecca Romjin would walk into my apartment right now and do unspeakable things to me. Of course I am not planning on this but I do wish it would happen). I am also a bit suprised by the moral relativism that I see here. Some right wing nut says something horrible and a moderate or liberal complains. When the bad thing can't be denied the answer is that all groups do it. This may be true but it matters very much how often all groups do something and how members of the group respond to bad things coming from their group. The statement that everyone strikes out does not mean that Jason Giambi and I are equal. I think the right does it more and excuses itself when it gets caught. We forgive Rush for his little drug problem; poor man was addicted to pain killers and had to get drugs illegally (by the way; I am a doctor and I have serious doubts about how often people get addicted to pain killers because of problems like chronic low back pain. Most people get addicted because they want to get high). No conservative raises an eyebrow about the timing of Rush's decision to enter rehab. Do you think a democrat would get cut the same slack? So enough of this crap. Quit ganging up on the Fool (my god more of the nasty conspiracy - now I am defending the fool). ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
In a message dated 11/14/2003 4:47:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: well, I *do* toss out the baseball/football posts frequently :\ No no say it isn't so. I have been engaged in these mostly for your entertainment ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: On trolling
In a message dated 11/14/2003 5:01:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you trying to insinuate that some of us are obsessed with SPORTS??? I was thinking more about Sports Wear. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
More Antioxidants: Dark Beer vs. Light
Talk about your lucky dogs...although I think that many dogs can learn to drink alcohol-containing beverages, rather than having them pumped into their stomachs. http://www.napanet.net/~pthmag/archives/beerart.htm ...With particular regard to beer, more conclusive data resulted from the laboratory research of Dr. John Folts, who actually fed beer to laboratory dogs suffering from artificially induced arteriosclerosis. In one study, Dr. Folts and his colleagues injected Guiness Extra Stout (a rich, hearty, nearly-black beer) directly into the stomachs of eleven of these arteriosclerotic laboratory dogs. Five other dogs in the laboratory received Heineken Lager (a much lighter beer with fewer flavonoids). In the canine test subjects who received the darker beer, platelet clogs disappeared completely, and could not be reinduced using the same methods which had originally produced the platelet-clotting conditions in the dogs. And although the test results were less impressive for the dogs who received the lighter beer, the incidence of platelet clotting was still reduced by almost half. While they were at it, Dr. Folts research team tested the effects of both red and white grape juice, red wine, tea, and coffee. They found that white grape juice, which is lacking in flavoniods, had no effect; and that coffee aggravated platelet activation. They did find, however, that red wine, red grape juice, and ordinary tea were also equally effective in the deactivation of clot-forming platelets, and that all of these beverages may have a cumulatively beneficial effect over time. The research is still inconclusive as to which factors or combinations of factors actually produce the best results. While Dr. Gaziano maintains that the alcohol component is the only determining element, the results of Dr. Folts studies strongly suggest that the flavonoids in dark beer, red wine, tea, and red grape juice offer significant physiological benefits in maintaining a healthy heart. [This is a slightly older article; my personal bet is on the flavonoids, although the lifestyle issues below re: glass-a-day vs. binges do play into it as well.] Dr. Gaziano did bring up another point worth considering; one based not upon physiology and biochemistry, but upon lifestyle. He maintains that some studies might have found more benefit from red wine because wine drinkers tend to have a glass or two daily with meals, while beer drinkers might be more likely to drink a six-pack on the weekend. Even though both average out to a drink a day, drinking it all at once is unhealthy. So, it also appears that how and when you drink may be as important as what you drink. In any case, when it comes to health benefits, it can now be said that, amid the lofty status of the Rothschilds and the Romanée-Contis, a good glass of stout can stand among the best of them with its foamy head held high. Debbi who can't believe that somebody else hasn't posted this already (unless, of course, they *did,* and she missed it...) ;} __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
At 02:19 PM 11/14/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:20:14AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are Perhaps you forgot that JDG killfiled me for a while, although I may be out of it now, I'm not sure. Anyway, in case you forgot, I'm not religious. Hm. Wondering now: how many religious people on list how many very non-religious people on list how many people have killfiles if killfiles by religious people have primarily non-religious people if killfiles by non-religious people have primarily religious people Julia doesn't use killfiles, certainly not on mailing lists I don't have a killfile, either. (I will let the members of the list decide where I fall along the religious . . . non-religious spectrum.) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Resemblances
At 02:22 PM 11/14/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: We've been noticing Tommy's resemblance to various people. In some ways, he looks like my father (who he's named after). He looks something like Sammy. He's got his daddy's chin. And last night, I realized he looks kinda like Paul McCrane. Has he been having problems with random electrical discharges in his hand? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
At 12:19 PM 11/14/03 -0600, The Fool wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] I withdraw my earlier question. You clearly are either drunk or on drugs. I didn't write this, a christian fantatic wrote it. It show the way some people think they can achieve their fascist theocracy goals. No. And No. You posted it. Apparently you agree with its validity. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [I wrote:] well, I *do* toss out the baseball/football posts frequently :\ No no say it isn't so. I have been engaged in these mostly for your entertainment LOL All right, OK, very well then! -- puts on attentive face with glasses and sits with chin on fist Play ball! Debbi who never managed - no, *never* - to snooze in lectures with professors known for calling on 'sleepers' by use of the above strategem... ;} __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Six Sigma
At 08:59 PM 11/14/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 11/13/2003 11:55:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 10:54 PM 11/13/03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone help me with a book or list of books to help me get a basic understanding of Six Sigma principles/implementation. Agh - I am surrounded by sick sigmas. My hospital has a major deal with GE to buy almost everything that uses electricity from them. Part of the deal is that they teach us management skills so I am Six Sigmad CAP (Change acceleration projected_ and Worked Out. FWIW, the quote about 3.4 errors/million came from the GE intro page which popped up in a Google search. Admittedly, I was wondering why you were looking for the info, given what I know of your profession. I wondered if perhaps someone had come up with a six-sigma program for the medical profession, e,g., a goal that there would be no more than 3.4 negative outcomes per million hospital admissions, or something . . . And for anyone who cares, during their limited foray into making and selling general-purpose computers, Xerox called their systems the Sigma series. Model numbers ran from 5 to 9. (I have no idea what happened to numbers 1 through 4.) For awhile while I was working on my masters degree in math, the university mainframe was a Sigma 6. All of which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Wally Schirra's Mercury capsule, which was designated Sigma 7. Signa Phi Nothing Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are religious are expected to regularly read posts that proclaim them evil, mentally defective, etc. and let the insults just slide off their backs. Who expects that? Is that in the etiquette guidelines: religious people must let insults slide off their backs. Has someone posted Hey, you're religious, you have to let it slide off your back!! I certainly have no such expectation. Further, neither I, nor Sonja (the only two posts in this thread before yours) has ever proclaimed anyone evil (AFAIK) and I would rather not be lumped in with those who do, thanks. People who are criticized by conservatives like JDG have the right to be indignant. ??? John doesn't get indignant? You must be kidding. I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. This is one of the most ill considered posts I've ever seen you post, Dan. I have no idea what religion or conservatism have to do with it. I do know that JDG has referenced Hilter in _several_ posts - is there a greater insult than that? Have I ever begun a post Look, punk...? -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Explanation - Original Message - From: Sonja van Baardwijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:12 AM Subject: Re: Explanation Doug Pensinger wrote: For the information of those who haven't been on the list for very long, or who might not understand even though they have, the reason I do not respond to JDG is that he and I have had several less than civilized encounters and I decided after the last one (over a year ago) that the list would be better off if we did not interact. This is not an entirely selfless act as the aforementioned encounters tend to be unpleasant and stressfull and I'd just as soon do without even if it means missing a spirited debate (which I enjoy). Well you've got my support and I have to say that I do the same. My debate encounters with JDG (and strangly enough only with JDG) have not been exactly civilised in the past either. And for that I am truly sorry. But by now I've been ignoring him for a long time and it works for me. Let me assure you that you get used to it even if you mis out on a couple of debates. :o) Ever since I got the 'you are a nazi' as well as a couple of other even less flattering insults from him I didn't see any point in continued debate on his pet peeves over and over again. I hold to the viewpoint that we oldtimers by now know where we stand. That doesn't mean that I'd not be happy to discuss old enraging topics again with others though. ;o) I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are religious are expected to regularly read posts that proclaim them evil, mentally defective, etc. and let the insults just slide off their backs. People who are criticized by conservatives like JDG have the right to be indignant. I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. Is this the new Hypocrisy 2.0? xponent Not In The Market Hopefully Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 05:45:01PM -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote: Researchers at Cornell University have shown that the popular winter beverage contains more antioxidants per cup than a similar serving of red wine or tea and may be a healthier choice...Their study, which they say is the most complete comparison to date of the total antioxidant content of these three popular beverages, will appear in the Dec. 3 issue of the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific societyThe beverages tested included a cup of hot water containing two tablespoons of pure cocoa powder, Have you ever met anyone who makes hot chocolate without SOME form of milk? Whole, 2%, skim, dry milk, something besides water? Darn ivory tower research! :-) I tried it once, actually. I managed to drink half the mug's worth I'd made. I don't recommend it, but if anyone wants to find out first-hand just why I wouldn't recommend it, go ahead, and then report back to us. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Deborah Harrell wrote: Debbi who found that, when camping, instant hot cocoa is pretty good with a dollop of peppermint schnapps... :} Don't tempt me. :) Julia off alcohol for awhile ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Veterens Bushwhacked
At 09:38 PM 11/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 11/14/2003 6:08:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Out of idle curiosity, do you know _anything_ about the VA system? Are you this contemptuous of everyone else, btw, about everything, or just about politics? So Tom comes out with a rant. Rather than defend the white house you disparage him. Perhaps it would be more productive for you to show where the story was wrong. It does seem to fit the trend of this administration. re; No child left behind (unless it interferes with tax cuts for the wealthy - which by the way includes me) I didn't know you had kids and an income of $50,000. No, wait my mistake, that's a credit not a tax cut. Kevin T. - VRWC No single childless adults left behind ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
At 09:33 PM 11/14/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Michael Harney wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Julia doesn't use killfiles, certainly not on mailing lists I would definately not killfile anyone on a list that I was moderating, that much is certain, but if someone is going far enough to get on my killfile, they probably won't stay long on a list that I am moderating (someone has to go pretty far to gain that distinction). I don't killfile. I skim or skip posts by certain individuals on other lists sometimes, but I figure I'd rather have an idea as to what's going on if a flamewar erupts, to have an idea at the outset as to who, if anyone, is being a goober. Or if there is enough gooberness to go around . . . Peas, Peas, Peas, Peas Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Doug Pensinger wrote: Have I ever begun a post Look, punk...? No, and you've never done the (highly irritating, IMO) thing of saying Bzzt, thank you for playing or something similar, either. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:33 PM 11/14/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Michael Harney wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Julia doesn't use killfiles, certainly not on mailing lists I would definately not killfile anyone on a list that I was moderating, that much is certain, but if someone is going far enough to get on my killfile, they probably won't stay long on a list that I am moderating (someone has to go pretty far to gain that distinction). I don't killfile. I skim or skip posts by certain individuals on other lists sometimes, but I figure I'd rather have an idea as to what's going on if a flamewar erupts, to have an idea at the outset as to who, if anyone, is being a goober. Or if there is enough gooberness to go around . . . Peas, Peas, Peas, Peas Maru Peas stop, Ronn!. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
Debbi who found that, when camping, instant hot cocoa is pretty good with a dollop of peppermint schnapps... :} One of my favorite additives for hot chocolate are the marshmallow Peeps that seem to pop up every holiday. Especially the Christmas Peeps. Throw in a couple of Peep snowmen with a little Hershey's chocolate drizzled over them.yum... http://www.marshmallowpeeps.com/ Gary Let's have some hot chocolate Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
Just out of curiosity, if someone posted a fantasy about molesting a child, saying that the darker parts of his mind imagined it but explaining carefully that he would never advocate such a thing and why, would that be just OK? -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Debbi who found that, when camping, instant hot cocoa is pretty good with a dollop of peppermint schnapps... :} Don't tempt me. :) Julia off alcohol for awhile Well, you can always take some fresh mint leaves and pulp them in a mortar (of the and pestle kind, *not* ordnance!), and add _that_ to your cocoa. With a dash of cream, it'd be sort of a 'liquid York Peppermint Patty.' :) The Ski Lodges Are Opening Up Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Explanation Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are religious are expected to regularly read posts that proclaim them evil, mentally defective, etc. and let the insults just slide off their backs. Who expects that? Is that in the etiquette guidelines: religious people must let insults slide off their backs. Has someone posted Hey, you're religious, you have to let it slide off your back!! I certainly have no such expectation. Further, neither I, nor Sonja (the only two posts in this thread before yours) has ever proclaimed anyone evil (AFAIK) and I would rather not be lumped in with those who do, thanks. People who are criticized by conservatives like JDG have the right to be indignant. ??? John doesn't get indignant? You must be kidding. I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. This is one of the most ill considered posts I've ever seen you post, Dan. I have no idea what religion or conservatism have to do with it. I do know that JDG has referenced Hilter in _several_ posts - is there a greater insult than that? Have I ever begun a post Look, punk...? I think it should be pointed out that what John does, does not..can not, be construed as justification for anything anyone else does. I don't think Dan was in any way defending John. It appeared to me he was commenting on *reactions* to John. Those are 2 quite different kinds of statements. I also think Doug is acting quite correctly when he attempts to separate himself and Sonja from the crowd Dan was pointing out. I would certainly do the same. But I am certain that Doug and Sonja were not the targets of Dan's post. xponent Not At All Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
On 15 Nov 2003 at 1:22, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Andrew Crystall wrote: Not you. I don't think either of the people I killfiled are that regular posters anymore. (no-one else is quoting them anyway) I have a few on the culture list, because the individuals are scientoligists and made them offensive to me off the list. So you are also fanatically anti-religious, for some specific religions. I am surrounded by fanatics!!! Anti-religion? No. Anti-scientolgist? YES. Scientology is a *dangerous* UFO Cult Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
At 10:44 PM 11/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: Debbi who found that, when camping, instant hot cocoa is pretty good with a dollop of peppermint schnapps... :} One of my favorite additives for hot chocolate are the marshmallow Peeps that seem to pop up every holiday. Especially the Christmas Peeps. Throw in a couple of Peep snowmen with a little Hershey's chocolate drizzled over them.yum... http://www.marshmallowpeeps.com/ Gary I like to eat Peeps after a nice meal of Philly Cheesesteak and Rolling Rock beer. Kevin T. - VRWC Remember: look for the PA label on everything you buy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
At 07:44 PM 11/14/2003 -0800, you wrote: Just out of curiosity, if someone posted a fantasy about molesting a child, saying that the darker parts of his mind imagined it but explaining carefully that he would never advocate such a thing and why, would that be just OK? -- Doug While we are being curious, how about a fantasy of government agents laying siege to a religious cult, in the end killing 80 adults and children? If you want a single person, how about a fantasy of a sniper who's a good enough shot to kill a mother and not injure the baby she's holding? Kevin T. - VRWC The real world or something like it ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: [Listref] Cocoa antioxidants
--- Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Debbi who found that, when camping, instant hot cocoa is pretty good with a dollop of peppermint schnapps... :} One of my favorite additives for hot chocolate are the marshmallow Peeps that seem to pop up every holiday. Especially the Christmas Peeps. Throw in a couple of Peep snowmen with a little Hershey's chocolate drizzled over them.yum... http://www.marshmallowpeeps.com/ grin What _is_ it about Peeps, anyway?! There are lots of sites devoted to them; I particularly enjoyed the ones researching 'Peeps under extreme conditions' (previously posted). And of course, Lord of the Peeps was someone's loving tribute to the puffy confections...or else the herald to full-blown psychosis. ;) Debbi Hot-Tubbing Peeps In Mount Doom Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: Re: christian dreams of murder... Just out of curiosity, if someone posted a fantasy about molesting a child, saying that the darker parts of his mind imagined it but explaining carefully that he would never advocate such a thing and why, would that be just OK? About 10 years ago I was supposed to be married to someone who I thought was the most wonderful woman I had ever met. My love for her was powerfully unreserved and I *knew* with the utmost certainty that our life was going to be as happily ever after as was possible to be. 10 days before the wedding she dumped me, flushed me, took me for over 4 grand, slandered me at every turn, and made sure that I knew that she had been screwing someone else the whole time we were together. To say that my bubble burst would be an understatement, unless the bubble was my entire world and every bit of self confidence I had ever possessed. I wasn't a kid at the time, I was 35 or so, and still the entire universe crashed down on me as if I were some naive and gullible teenager. As the reality of the situation set in over a few weeks, I began to hate. And this woman is the only person I have ever had a personal hatred for. So all the potential hate of a lifetime was focused upon this one detested woman. With this hate came revenge fantasies. Sick, perverse, and ugly. I would dream of horrific acts performed upon her by me personally. I think that in some way, I wanted to destroy her as a person. A revenge upon her for the way I felt about myself. So I'm wondering if the things I was feeling and thinking at that time are all that different from the things Doug is describing? It is frightening to know with some degree of certainty some of the bad things that lurk deep in my spirit (or whathaveyou). xponent Sadistic Pleasures Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:52:16 -0600, Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'm wondering if the things I was feeling and thinking at that time are all that different from the things Doug is describing? It is frightening to know with some degree of certainty some of the bad things that lurk deep in my spirit (or whathaveyou). My condolences, however belated. No one deserves to be treated that way. I think that actual personal experiences like the one you describe are somewhat different than the dark thoughts we were discussing that single out people without even really knowing them. Apropos, perhaps, for you. Two of Me, Two of You Jackson Browne There are two of me And two of you Two who have betrayed love And two who have been true And together we went crashing through Every bond and vow and faith we knew Me and the fool Ive been And the two of you Of the two of me One always knew That I would always love you Whatever you might do And the more unfree and troubled you grew I could feel the whole world splitting in two Trying to make the room For the two of you So like a fragile little child More than a little lost and wild How the light would leave the sky when you cried And returned again when you smiled And how the light would invade and divide The darkness I have inside There were two of me And two of you Searching for a passageway Hidden from our view And together we went crashing through Every bond and vow and faith we knew Me and the fool Ive been And the two of you From I'm Alive, 1993 -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: christian dreams of murder... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:44:29 -0800 Just out of curiosity, if someone posted a fantasy about molesting a child, saying that the darker parts of his mind imagined it but explaining carefully that he would never advocate such a thing and why, would that be just OK? There is a _huge_ difference in this instance between what you describe and what's on that site. I respectfully suggest you consider re-reading it, because I'm rather surprised you would make this comparison. You don't see the difference between the two? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Explanation Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are religious are expected to regularly read posts that proclaim them evil, mentally defective, etc. and let the insults just slide off their backs. Who expects that? Is that in the etiquette guidelines: religious people must let insults slide off their backs. Has someone posted Hey, you're religious, you have to let it slide off your back!! I certainly have no such expectation. Further, neither I, nor Sonja (the only two posts in this thread before yours) has ever proclaimed anyone evil (AFAIK) and I would rather not be lumped in with those who do, thanks. People who are criticized by conservatives like JDG have the right to be indignant. ??? John doesn't get indignant? You must be kidding. I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. This is one of the most ill considered posts I've ever seen you post, Dan. I have no idea what religion or conservatism have to do with it. The Fool has called me evil hundreds of times. Its no big deal. If JDG called you evil, there'd be a problem. I do know that JDG has referenced Hilter in _several_ posts - is there a greater insult than that? If he had referenced Hitler in a debate on abortion, then you'd have something. Referencing it in a discussion of anti-Semitism is in context. Did John compare you to Hitler? Or did John compare ideas that are part of a long and shameful tradition of anti-Semitism to Hitler. IIRC, I thought it was a bit of an overstatement at the time. The anti-Semitism of pogums is not as bad as Hitlers; just as the anti-Semitism of boys who called a friend of mine Christ Killer was not as bad as the anti-Semitism of pogums. But, they are all part of a pattern. Have I ever begun a post Look, punk...? No, as I've never stated you were evil. Did JDG ever call you evil? Dan M. No, but JDG does not post 20 times a day that you are evil. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
- Original Message - From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:02 PM Subject: Re: Explanation - Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Explanation Dan Minette wrote: I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are religious are expected to regularly read posts that proclaim them evil, mentally defective, etc. and let the insults just slide off their backs. Who expects that? Is that in the etiquette guidelines: religious people must let insults slide off their backs. Has someone posted Hey, you're religious, you have to let it slide off your back!! I certainly have no such expectation. Further, neither I, nor Sonja (the only two posts in this thread before yours) has ever proclaimed anyone evil (AFAIK) and I would rather not be lumped in with those who do, thanks. People who are criticized by conservatives like JDG have the right to be indignant. ??? John doesn't get indignant? You must be kidding. I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. This is one of the most ill considered posts I've ever seen you post, Dan. I have no idea what religion or conservatism have to do with it. I do know that JDG has referenced Hilter in _several_ posts - is there a greater insult than that? Have I ever begun a post Look, punk...? I think it should be pointed out that what John does, does not..can not, be construed as justification for anything anyone else does. I don't think Dan was in any way defending John. It appeared to me he was commenting on *reactions* to John. Those are 2 quite different kinds of statements. That's exactly right. I also think Doug is acting quite correctly when he attempts to separate himself and Sonja from the crowd Dan was pointing out. I would certainly do the same. But I am certain that Doug and Sonja were not the targets of Dan's post. Certainly not. I've never had any real trouble with their posting styles. My post was more on the order of musing about the asymmetry than complaining. I even expect me to just accept the accusations of evil to slide off. I think part of it is that I don't take the Fool's posts all that seriously. In many ways, I think Doug takes JDG's posts seriously. I have no problem with him killfiling JDG. As I said, that's a reasonable reaction to a poster that upsets you. The Fool's posts don't really upset me, and I was thinking of why. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Veterens Bushwhacked
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Kevin Tarr wrote: At 09:38 PM 11/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: So Tom comes out with a rant. Rather than defend the white house you disparage him. Perhaps it would be more productive for you to show where the story was wrong. It does seem to fit the trend of this administration. re; No child left behind (unless it interferes with tax cuts for the wealthy - which by the way includes me) I didn't know you had kids and an income of $50,000. No, wait my mistake, that's a credit not a tax cut. Well, your software didn't do a very good job of crediting the person who made that statement, it was Bob Z., and to the best of my knowledge, he probably has an income of at least $50K and he's got a couple of kids. Julia just trying to get things straight ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christian dreams of murder...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Killer Bs Discussion) Subject: Re: christian dreams of murder... Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:30:43 -0500 In a message dated 11/14/2003 4:43:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He's quite clear in the intro that it's a work of fiction. A 'wink wink nod nod' scenario would have been a single line which said 'Of course, I don't support this.' Instead, he wrote three quite honest-sounding paragraphs explaining his position. IMO, you're drawing conclusions that have no evidence to support them. And, just because someone writes something doesn't mean they are advocating it, and to imply they are with (I repeat) _no evidence_ is the worst kind of thought police manipulation of reality. Out of curiosity, do you object to Tom Clancy novels? After all, they contain plausible scenarios by which our country and government heads could be attacked by all sorts of terrorists, resulting in the deaths of millions. You are not seriously comparing this to Clancy are you? I was asking a question. If the Fool answers it, I'll explain my reasons for asking. Oh my god there really is a conspiracy out there; I have been manuevered into liking Clancy better than something else. Lets get real. This guy is of course a nut, but his fantasy is not a popular fiction it is a wish (kind of like me wishing that Rebecca Romjin would walk into my apartment right now and do unspeakable things to me. Byron posted a scenario, described it as his deep dark thoughts, then explained that the reason did so was to show how undesirable a solution it would be. I believe I was clear on this when I posted the intro in the first place. Okay, I admit it was a stretch to compare the guy to Tom Clancy... they do have one thing in common though: they're both terrible writers. Of course I am not planning on this but I do wish it would happen). I am also a bit suprised by the moral relativism that I see here. Some right wing nut says something horrible and a moderate or liberal complains. When the bad thing can't be denied the answer is that all groups do it. Um were you referring to something I wrote? What was it exactly? What 'all groups' reference are you talking about? This may be true but it matters very much how often all groups do something and how members of the group respond to bad things coming from their group. The statement that everyone strikes out does not mean that Jason Giambi and I are equal. I think the right does it more and excuses itself when it gets caught. We forgive Rush for his little drug problem; poor man was addicted to pain killers and had to get drugs illegally (by the way; I am a doctor and I have serious doubts about how often people get addicted to pain killers because of problems like chronic low back pain. Most people get addicted because they want to get high). No conservative raises an eyebrow about the timing of Rush's decision to enter rehab. Do you think a democrat would get cut the same slack? ROFLMAO! Are you accusing me of being a _right-wing Republican_??? HA! LOL! FYI, I'm pro-choice and I voted for Clinton twice and Gore once. With that in mind, ask Kevin 'VRWC' Tarr and JDG how right-wing I am. Somehow I doubt they'll agree with ya. ;-) So enough of this crap. Quit ganging up on the Fool (my god more of the nasty conspiracy - now I am defending the fool). Nope. I stand by everything I posted. Fool rants on the list constantly about how the Bush administration is twisting everything we hear. (And to repeat myself onlist, I do agree with that (although perhaps not to such an extreme, paranoid extent that he does)... they have elevated spin control to a fine art.) Then, he twists a story himself in order to prove a point. Please explain to me why the Fool's own hypocrisy should not be pointed out to him? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Explanation
From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Explanation Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:20:14 -0600 - Original Message - From: Sonja van Baardwijk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:12 AM Subject: Re: Explanation Doug Pensinger wrote: For the information of those who haven't been on the list for very long, or who might not understand even though they have, the reason I do not respond to JDG is that he and I have had several less than civilized encounters and I decided after the last one (over a year ago) that the list would be better off if we did not interact. This is not an entirely selfless act as the aforementioned encounters tend to be unpleasant and stressfull and I'd just as soon do without even if it means missing a spirited debate (which I enjoy). Well you've got my support and I have to say that I do the same. My debate encounters with JDG (and strangly enough only with JDG) have not been exactly civilised in the past either. And for that I am truly sorry. But by now I've been ignoring him for a long time and it works for me. Let me assure you that you get used to it even if you mis out on a couple of debates. :o) Ever since I got the 'you are a nazi' as well as a couple of other even less flattering insults from him I didn't see any point in continued debate on his pet peeves over and over again. I hold to the viewpoint that we oldtimers by now know where we stand. That doesn't mean that I'd not be happy to discuss old enraging topics again with others though. ;o) I've noticed a rather interesting asymmetry. People on the list who are religious are expected to regularly read posts that proclaim them evil, mentally defective, etc. and let the insults just slide off their backs. People who are criticized by conservatives like JDG have the right to be indignant. I have no trouble with anyone deciding to killfile someone, ignore their posts, etc. That's perfectly reasonable. But, its funny that even the religious people expect that they should take regular insults with good grace, while less insulting things written by JDG are the grounds for righteous indignation. Since when? In all seriousness, I've been equally indignant with JDG, William Goodall, Erik and The Fool over the last few years when I've felt they've been intolerant or arrogant. When have you not known the religious folks on this list to rise up en masse and slap down insults from the atheists? ;-) Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
