[cfaussie] I hereby resign :)
Allow me to retort to one and all, in a final response and last response I'll make on CFAussie (yes, you've succeed in running this .NET git out of town, horse and all). - *I was ontopic.* As many folks and I discussed, I should of approached the wording with more sensitivity (many I have IM'ed stated it was too heavy and they got what I meant, but went about it wrong), in which I do apologise, as it wasn't my intent to create red flag the masses around Coldfusion. It was in fact, trying to deliver the bad news first, and then follow up with the good news, ways to judo flip the strength into a weakness if you will. It's something I've noticed at the level I'm at, in that no matter what hurdle a brand will put in front of you, there is always a weakness and the trick is to remain calm and simply judo flip it. Folks like Geoff seem to believe that opinions are to be considered commandments, when in fact, it's just an opinion, an independent thought for you to agree/disagree with. Why resent it? ie what part annoys you the most? is it because you fear that I'm right? or do you feel that I'm pushing a right when it's actually a wrong. What if for giggles, i was right, what now? do you just pack it in and move on? I think the real fighting mongrel within some here is that if you can focus your energy on my 'behaviour' you'll in turn prove the day. You possibly fear that I'm enticing you to adopt .NET like it's some game I'm playing with your careers, like it's going to somehow give me a massive career boost to win your hearts minds over to the .NET banner. If you're thinking like this, than I'd urge you to reconsider the notion that .NET is evil. As right now, you can take the positioned statistics as one of two things: a) *Blasphemy.* It's to be stricken from the record and never spoken of ever again. Coldfusion is growing in numbers, Adobe says its important to them and why would they lie. We all march forward and get rid of the .NET seed from our village of coldfusioners. b) *Opportunity*. Adobe have handed you one of the only .NET integration pieces in their entire product stack. What do you want to do with it tomorrow? how can you build a bridge between the CF camp and .NET camp so that you, not Adobe, Evangelise it's future. I forget whom said it, but they nailed it right in that the only ones whom are saying CF is dead are the ones whom are within the CF community. Externally, it CF has rarely come up - which openly and honestly, pisses me off. As i'm actually at heart, a CF Zealot :) Simple rule with statistics and I'll quote it - *If you agree or acknowledge it, then you will surely prove it to be true. * Statistics aren't always the whole story, in that if we all relied on statistics then Silverlight for example would of lost NBC to Flash, and everyone would of moved on. It doesn't work like that, and you'll see a lot of statistics going forward being thrown around as each brand looks to prove a point with one another, my line of thinking is simple. Flash has 98% of deployment, yes, but I see that as being 98% of consumers having the opportunity now to choose something different. That's my over-arching point to this thread, don't subscribe to statistics as they only tell you the score for that one particular game. It doesn't define the overall outcome, as just like in sport, there's always a new season. But Geoff seems to believe i'm SOAP Boxing, which implies I'm doing it for an agenda? Yeah, seeing a language I still enjoy, continuing , despite this Adobe vs Microsoft battle, i never once said I hated Coldfusion :) - being agnostic when you work for a brand is actually extremely hard to prove, despite the intent being there.. something I'll never get used to. That and you're just not allowed to be, as it sends a confusing message. - *The games up, you got me, I tried to trick you all into adopting .NET *. I actually never once set out convince anyone on this list to adopt .NET (despite being accused of this many times), but merely wanted to provide an alternative view to the mainstream thinking of pure CF all the way, here we go. As Jason put it, I'm no longer this nutter whom was an ex-full time-CF'er and now have to recognise that I'm seen as purely a Microsoftee sitting in an Adobe list. I had thought in this list, that would not be true, given the past 10 years or so i've interacted with folks here on all walks of life that they in turn would see past this as this being the one list I could kind of take the jersey off, in that, I post here in what I'd regard as my offline thinking. I rarely interact with he help threads, as some of the questions stump me myself (as i've lost a lot of my CF leaning's and I hate to admit it, but I use this list to keep me abreast of the ongoing
[cfaussie] Re: Per application mapping
Not sure what the point is Raymond ? hehe.. I think we both agree but not sure if we are in sync on our agreement context :).. In that if you drop Application.cfm and opt for Application.CFC then you start your journey down the path of OO, as you're really thinking in terms of OO composition are you not? onSessionStart etc.. If you decide to keep Application.cfm then yes, you're not on the road to OO ... If however you want to be an OO code monkey, then Application.cfc is the only way to fly as it gets you in the mood :) Technically you're in OO now matter how you like it as in the end does it not boil down to Java.. kind of like the Matrix and the Girl in the red dress thinking :) On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Raymond Camden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd argue that it doesn't. Maybe it's me just being picky, and I'm far from an OO expert. I guess I felt like you said it was -required-, and while I think everyone should drop app.cfm like a bad hairdo, I don't think it is _required_ for an OO site. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: eh? You have events? you have properties? what part of this isn't OO? As whilst Coldfusion will route event argumnets to the various event handlers automaticaly for you, it does begin the OO composition does it not. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Raymond Camden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure this comment really makes sense. Having a OO designed model isnt' really something that forces you to use Application.cfc. The main thing App.cfc gives you is more fine grained control over application events and settings. That being said - Rony, definitely switch. If something breaks, its your code's fault. I'd be willing to bet you guys used onRequest and that broke your web service/flash remoting calls. The fix for that is to just remove it. ;) On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:51 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Application.CFC is the only way to fly as you set yourself up for better OO composition. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Rony Fayyad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well one of my colleagues was saying that using application.cfc broke some of the application. Can't recall what it was but that is why we have not moved into the application.cfc yet. Thanks for your feedback Mark. Much appreciated. From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Mandel Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2008 2:18 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Per application mapping Yup, you can only do it application.cfc Why don't you convert the application.cfm to a .cfc, it's usually pretty straight forward. Mark On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Rony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I have utilised the CF8 per application mapping in a couple of my projects that all use application.cfc. Now, I am working on a project that uses application.cfm. Doing what i did in the application.cfc for other projects DID NOT work for the application.cfm Does the per application setting ONLY work for application.cfc and NOT application.cfm? Thanks. -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- === Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org -- === Raymond Camden, VP of Software Dev, Broadchoice Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blog : www.coldfusionjedi.com AOL IM : cfjedimaster Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org -- Regards, Scott Barnes Rich Client Platform Manager Microsoft. http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: cfinclude and parent document variables
I tried the same situation on my HostMySite.com account and it worked aok? either you're on a seperate box to me or somethings a miss in the code. I don't think Application scope is at play here as in theory if 4 people are on the box and 3 of them are constantly clearing the Application scope, the only way for it to affect all 4 is if they all share the same scopename? My memory is rusty but doesn't cfinclude distill down into the one class (or is that cfmodule)? could that be the faultline? On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would get this issue if head.cfm is included with cfmodule or as a tag instead of cfinclude. Except for a change in scope I'm not sure how this could happen. Blair On 7/3/08, David Heacock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got the strangest problem... I'm using a cheap CF hosting company HostMySite.com. I have a page that sets a simple variable: cfset product_name = Smood then includes a file that does some stuff: cfinclude template=/includes/head.cfm The strange thing is that head.cfm sometimes (not always, which is odd) can't see the variable 'product_name' in the parent document. Am I losing the plot or is this freaky? It's not that it gets the wrong variable (like with a caching problem), it just can't see it at all and throws a null pointer exception. Any ideas here? Cheers David Heacock -- Regards, Scott Barnes Rich Client Platform Manager Microsoft. http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: cfinclude and parent document variables
ooh yeah, check your mappings as on a shared box it's a honour based approach really.. On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds pretty strange... though I had really weird issue with HostMySite.com as well. Not sure if this will help but might give you ideas... The application application.cfc extending another application.cfc which is pretty plain sailing. Though the my application scope was not setup correctly - which was really weird. After doing a cfdump I noticed that I had an array of Application scopes of other applications. This sent alarm bells off in my head. So what was the issue? The path to the extending application.cfc used a string that was also a mapping (Unknown to me). So the app was including an application.cfc from some random application. The mapping to this other application didn't even comply with HostMySite.com rules for CF mappings which really annoyed me. In the end I got in contact with HostMySite.com and informed them about this. I ended up just changed the path to my extending application.cfc and the app was running smoothly. This just shows you that an app which appears to be self contained can end up screwed. So maybe apply some radical thinking/debugging. cfinclude is a pretty simply so for it to behave as you're describing something else is up. David Heacock wrote: I've got the strangest problem... I'm using a cheap CF hosting company HostMySite.com. I have a page that sets a simple variable: cfset product_name = Smood then includes a file that does some stuff: cfinclude template=/includes/head.cfm The strange thing is that head.cfm sometimes (not always, which is odd) can't see the variable 'product_name' in the parent document. Am I losing the plot or is this freaky? It's not that it gets the wrong variable (like with a caching problem), it just can't see it at all and throws a null pointer exception. Any ideas here? Cheers David Heacock -- Regards, Scott Barnes Rich Client Platform Manager Microsoft. http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
I wrote a framework once for Flex, but I gave up as I started to re-question the problems I was trying to solve. As in the end it was a future idea of marrying both RIA + Server to compensate for Flex Builder 1.0 being the most evil IDE I've ever meet :) (hey even Macromedia staffers at the time agreed its evil and thus they moved to Eclipse I'm guessing). That being said, I find value in Cairngorm but I don't think it's a good idea in the hands of most Flex folks. Allow me to explain before I get tarred feathered. Cairngorm represents a template to help folks get started really, as in the end you're given an objective - Go build xyz RIA and be snappy about it. Now the first thing that happens is a team is assembled, in some cases you are the team but no matter how you look at it, you need to then break yourself into 3 parts. Designer, Architect and Developer. Now the smart thing to do is to wire frame your approach, what am I going to do and how am I going to do it. So before you even look at the RIA composition, you need to spin up some prototypes (eg Say you wanted to want to write a control that works like Office Ribbon - well you need to prototype that a bit more before you agree upon it). Once you finish the prototypes, you need to wire these moving pieces together, and depending on time and budget, Cairngorm can give you a lot of cover fire fast, as well you have the following in your favour: - You have the abstraction thinking already in place, no need to worry about composition concerns and questions. - You are able to frame the SOS calls in a manner that makes sense to your peers. Name on person on FlexCoders that doesn't know what Cairngorm is or how it works and I'll show you a person whom is unlikely to help you anyway. - You can always re factor later. So Cairngrom has a way of helping you win the hill fast and without thinking (provided you trust Alistair and Steve's brain, which hey, they aren't dumb and I find value in their thinking). The danger though is you can end up hitting an egg with a ball pin hammer or break yourself into jail. As if you are building a shopping cart system? then it's not needed - i mean really, it's just not. If you are building an intranet, then it is but keep in mind you've only just scratched the surface of the problem you are trying to achieve. As whilst Cairngorm will give you the templates to build the foundation for each module up from, you still need to think more about timing and when to load assets externally etc. Not to mention deep linking and of course the added complexity of Runtime Shared Libraries and their pro's / con's of use. Point is, it has value but those whom declare they hate it are most likely the ones whom know how Flex works and are already thinking of the last paragraph and can see the devalue in the architecture and most likley have their own home grown solutions ready to save the day. That's all frameworks are really there fore, to provide a template approach to a basic methodology that can effectively get you started or shipping faster than you could on your own starting from absolute zero. I dislike Cairngorm simply because of the people that abuse it and lack of leadership from Adobe around shaping it in a way that helps them out of jail instead of encouraging them into breaking into jail. As for the idea and the composition of it, I dig it and would praise Steve and his team mates on doing something that probably saved Flex from certain death at the very early stages. Something now at Microsoft i wish they didn't hehehehhe... (to be fair, competition is healthy so wouldn't have it any other way) my 2c On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Possible over-dramatisation on my part, but seriously, I know a lot of people who really, really, really dislike that framework. (Maybe enough 'really') Mark On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Kai Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or to be more precise: I understand some concerns people have and I acknowledge that people might prefer different approaches when it comes to architecture, that's fine. But if someone states hating a framework, I wonder if that's a bit too much and if they are not looking at CG from an objective point of view. Cheers Kai Actually, talking to a lot of people at cf.Objective() and at webDU, most hate Cairngorm. In fact, besides Robin, I've not met a single person in the past 6 months that has not ripped Cairngorm to pieces whenever it has been mentioned. Eh, the other person besides Robin would be me. I still don't get most of the issues people have with CG. :) Cheers Kai -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com
[cfaussie] Re: Is this safe?
Agreed. You could also simply use IsDate function to determine if the data is a capable of being a derived Date Time type. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Bruce Trevarthen (B2 Limited) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can warp a cftry around a query within your CFC but you can't wrap a cftry around the CFC itself, so validating within the query will give you more control than just relying on the CFC to do it. -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Velevitch Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2008 1:25 p.m. To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Is this safe? I have a function that runs a query and the function has a required argument of type date. Would it be safe to use the argument in the query without using cfqueryparam for that argument? I'm thinking that the function argument type would be checked the time the function is called. -- Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.apugs.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney July meeting: Taming The Code Date: Mon 28th July 6pm for 6:30 start Details to follow. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Per application mapping
Application.CFC is the only way to fly as you set yourself up for better OO composition. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Rony Fayyad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well one of my colleagues was saying that using application.cfc broke some of the application. Can't recall what it was but that is why we have not moved into the application.cfc yet. Thanks for your feedback Mark. Much appreciated. *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mark Mandel *Sent:* Thursday, 3 July 2008 2:18 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Per application mapping Yup, you can only do it application.cfc Why don't you convert the application.cfm to a .cfc, it's usually pretty straight forward. Mark On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Rony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I have utilised the CF8 per application mapping in a couple of my projects that all use application.cfc. Now, I am working on a project that uses application.cfm. Doing what i did in the application.cfc for other projects DID NOT work for the application.cfm Does the per application setting ONLY work for application.cfc and NOT application.cfm? Thanks. -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes Rich Client Platform Manager Microsoft. http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: WAY OT : Manually install windows print spool service
The spooling services are part of the initial windows install piece. How the heck did you uninstall it? Ping me off line i'll give you a Quick Assitance Number to call our special IT help folks to get some official Microsoft resolution. On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Steve Onnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not too long ago I had to remove some spy ware or something from my computer and what ended up happening is all of my printers got uninstalled and the print spool windows service got removed and I cant print from my computer anymore. Does anyone know if it is possible to just re-install the windows printer services? I have googled and came up empty. Lots of people having the issue but no resolutions. I also installed SP3 last night in the hope that it might re-install it for me but no such luck. Steve -- Regards, Scott Barnes Rich Client Platform Manager Microsoft. http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
Agreed - except MG.. most think Cairngorm is a great framework to, but ..oh wait now i'm going to get Robin started :) hehe.. I guess with time comes growth, and i don't there is a right answer (I'd argue there are many problems with the Tooling in .NET). As sometimes you can make it To easy to build and thus you get into a bad situation fast.. much like we had with Frontpage... thankfully that's not around anymore :) On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no clue as to what the hell Joe's up to with Model Glue.. i think that guy just creates frameworks for the sake of it vs attacking the problems at a niche level. It's like a mutated version of Coldspring, Mach-II and Fusebox mixed with some Cairngorm bits to flow into the Flex side of things.. I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I don't actively use MG, but I've looked pretty close at it, and its a very nice MVC framework. The new code gen features he has added seem to be more of a response to the utilisation of XML than anything else. That and the autowiring of controllers from ColdSpring is pretty much how I would run with any MVC framework, Mii, ColdBox, MG, whatever, as it simplifies the passing around of dependencies, and actually abstracts away the implementation of ColdSpring from your Controller code. I don't see Joe doing anything majorly different from, and considering how popular MG is, I don't think many other people share your opinion. (Although I could be wrong). I'm not convinced that framework ontop of CF is the complete answer, i think there needs more smarts placed in tooling to compliment CFML. While I agree that there is a CF tool problem (insert stupid joke about the CFML community here ;o) ), I don't see it as one or the other - if/when the tools come about, then I would expect that the frameworks would also leverage those tools, and you would end up in a very nice place with both high end frameworks and tools that complement them. I guess it's a bit more of a chicken and egg problem. In the MS world, the tooling came first. In the CFML world, the frameworks came first. I think we'll find they will both reach the same conclusion in the end, just from different directions. But I do see your point about tooling in CF, Adobe have already stated that they know it is a problem. Whether or not it will be solved... who knows? Mark -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
On a side note (is related so don't panic Rae heeh), some of the SQL folks have put together a project called Astoria. In a very quick and crude way of explaining what it does, is that it basically allows you to expose a database (with various permission levels you can customize etc to protect security) via web basd URL pattern search. It's built ontop of WCF (Windows Communication Foundation) and it can essentially bypass a lot of the CRUD/DAO routines if you treat it with respect and keep an open mind to how your micro-architecture is layed out. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=1B6F85BC-8933-4D0E-A639-934EF85ADCE1displaylang=en http://astoria.mslivelabs.com Now this shouldn't ruffle any of the Adobe feathers so don't be afraid, this won't melt your minds into being a .NET developer, it's basically something I think the CF community can use without having to sell your soul (provided your ok with SQL database and hosting on IIS7). It's pretty cool imho, i was impressed. On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't seen that one before! cool! This is still one of my favourite articles on common framework patterns, and how they can be applied: http://www.remotesynthesis.com/blog/index.cfm/2007/2/27/Mach-II-or-ColdSpring-Understanding-the-Differences-Between-ColdFusion-Frameworks Mark On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this seems to be timely on this topic: http://www.12robots.com/index.cfm/2008/6/29/MVC--IoC--ORM--Amazing-learning-experience-and-a-lot-of-fun It's been coming along nicely, yet slowly, as I learn and rework things. It has really been an awesome learning experience. I am amazed by the frameworks and the OO methodologies. (and Transfer gets _another_ mention ... geez it's everywhere ... like a weed...) -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
I use both Mach-II and Coldspring. I must get around to testing out Mark's code a bit more as last i looked at it did have some nice pluses attached to it. I have no clue as to what the hell Joe's up to with Model Glue.. i think that guy just creates frameworks for the sake of it vs attacking the problems at a niche level. It's like a mutated version of Coldspring, Mach-II and Fusebox mixed with some Cairngorm bits to flow into the Flex side of things.. If there was a heavy duty CF IDE on the market right now that tapped deeper into CF, Model-Glue would probably fade away yet I suspect Mach-II and Coldspring could still stick around. As whilst they are a framework, they do essentially hold themselves together without having a IDE take over some of the heavy burden. The one probable hurt point for Mach-II is maybe the XML getting verbose, but when I alst spoke to the planning team about this we kind of agreed at the time (before it went all corporatised) that a tool could again, handle this burden. I'm not convinced that framework ontop of CF is the complete answer, i think there needs more smarts placed in tooling to compliment CFML. I'm sure their will be complaints :) On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't seen that one before! cool! This is still one of my favourite articles on common framework patterns, and how they can be applied: http://www.remotesynthesis.com/blog/index.cfm/2007/2/27/Mach-II-or-ColdSpring-Understanding-the-Differences-Between-ColdFusion-Frameworks Mark On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this seems to be timely on this topic: http://www.12robots.com/index.cfm/2008/6/29/MVC--IoC--ORM--Amazing-learning-experience-and-a-lot-of-fun It's been coming along nicely, yet slowly, as I learn and rework things. It has really been an awesome learning experience. I am amazed by the frameworks and the OO methodologies. (and Transfer gets _another_ mention ... geez it's everywhere ... like a weed...) -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
J2EE Design Patterns catalogue which is freely available online. Now they have true religion… this is the scariest but most necessary part of a developer's career. This is where they'll happily embrace the idea of writing 115 Lines of Code to write Hello World, as in the end this is about abstraction and separation of unnecessary tightly coupled objects or domains for the greater good of that which is design patterns. What was the problem being solved again? Who cares, did you not see how I wrote this kickarse observer pattern in my collections/structs? This is when the senior developer in the room needs to step up, assess the situation and take the design pattern pup under his/her wing. It's time they showed them the path to immortality, the path in which you daily use a framework + design pattern but do so in a way that you don't think. As this is when you eventually will lead into the path of learning the one fundamental lesson of all. The best code written is the code you don't write. You may lose a job or two in the process of getting to this point, but you'll eventually figure out fast that 115 lines of code may win you a prize for pure OO solutions being delivered, but writing hello world in 2 lines lets you ship faster. Developer (Object Warrior) - Snr Developer (Framework Fan) - Programming Analyst (Design Pattern Zealot) - Architect (Field Commander) - Developer. The cycle is brutal but necessary. *Still want to write a framework?* On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:41 AM, Kevan Stannard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Adam Head First Design Patterns is a great book, but if you are quite new to OO concepts then it may be a bit of a difficult read. The examples are in Java so basic exposure to the language would certainly help. To get the most out of it you should first have an understanding of OO concepts such as inheritance, interfaces and abstract classes (and their syntax in Java). You might also like to have a look at Brian Rinaldi's OO resource list. There are a couple of presentations referenced there (Matt Woodward, Sean Corfield) that might get you off to a good start. http://www.remotesynthesis.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/7/18/Objects-and-Framewor ks--the-Big-Resource-List -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Chapman Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 3:47 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] CFC Design Patterns Hi All, I am looking at re-vamping the way I build cfcs and want to move to a more OO approach.. I have recently started using coldspring and am after pplz thoughts on their favoured design pattern and how best to organise cfcs.. Any feedback or links appreciated.. Regards, Adam Chapman Portplus www.portplus.com T: 03 9800 -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- at CarPoint.com.au http://carpoint.com.au/ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
I dare you to do it barry. write in Notepad vs VS Studio 2008... You're on crack if you think VS Studio isn't one of the most power IDEs on the planet. I'll deflect and absorb a lot of crap around being all things Microsoft, but i've meet die hard Java fanbois through to Adobe staffers whom have all agreed - Visual Studio is powerful. Now if it's not your cup of tea, that's cool but spagetti code ... you = epic fail :) btw do you ever stop whining about Microsoft? you grumpy muso :) heheh. On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is this turning into a Frameworks Vs tools debate? Imagine you're used to using both. if you had to loose one, which one would you loose? personally, I'd rather write code using a framework with Notepad than spaghetti code with VS2005. (and Scott: there's a lot of similarities between the core .NET framework and CF's abstraction of it's underlying Java code) On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Rae Buerckner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol.. Scott you do make me laugh, in a good way ;) The difference is the frameworks in CF are about community and are open source, and Flex Builder has a plugin for CF Frameworks as does the Eclipse IDE :) Which makes the frameworks part of the tool. Cheers, R On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasn't there but i never missed an oppurtunity to rub his nose in that one... chuck says hi btw :) .NET = Framework that's the zinger in this convo.. We agree frameworks rock, we also agree that tools play a roll in keeping the code maitenance in a happy state.. point is, if you're writing a framework to keep your codebase maintainable when a tool could in theory take over the burden, then what problem is being solved and who should own it tommorow (you own it today, but it shouldn't stop there). On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Rae Buerckner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol... I remember that breakfast Barry! On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a fair point, Blair the other side of the equation of course is too much hand-holding that it gets in the way, either by abstracting too much of the detail so you don't know what's happening under the covers - or - it just plain gets it wrong in edge-cases (special headers needed in CF webservices spring to mind) I've still got a great memory of a WebDU breakfast a couple of years back where Chuck was showing how easy it was to build an ASP.NEThttp://asp.net/ application in VS2005 ... which promptly broke when he ran it and he had to go back to rebuild it and apply some setting he'd forgotten ... happens to the best of us. but this isn't helping Adam much... Adam, if you're still reading this, revisit the CFC dev website to get a feel for how important it depends means when someone like Sean Corfield says it. simple things will get you most of the way there - keep your view totally separate from your data access code - identify the Gold code (ie: it costs a fortune to make) and protect that investment (eg: from change + retesting) - you can probably get away with having DAO's for single record access (CRUD) and gateway CFC's for the rest. At least it's something. Lots of choices to join up the middle bits - look at what Transfer can give you as a way to get things happening quickly for data access - queries are more convenient (and faster) than arrays of objects, structs easier to pass around than single objects - you gotta know the rules before you break them but breaking them is OK -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
I wasn't there but i never missed an oppurtunity to rub his nose in that one... chuck says hi btw :) .NET = Framework that's the zinger in this convo.. We agree frameworks rock, we also agree that tools play a roll in keeping the code maitenance in a happy state.. point is, if you're writing a framework to keep your codebase maintainable when a tool could in theory take over the burden, then what problem is being solved and who should own it tommorow (you own it today, but it shouldn't stop there). On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Rae Buerckner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol... I remember that breakfast Barry! On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a fair point, Blair the other side of the equation of course is too much hand-holding that it gets in the way, either by abstracting too much of the detail so you don't know what's happening under the covers - or - it just plain gets it wrong in edge-cases (special headers needed in CF webservices spring to mind) I've still got a great memory of a WebDU breakfast a couple of years back where Chuck was showing how easy it was to build an ASP.NEThttp://asp.net/ application in VS2005 ... which promptly broke when he ran it and he had to go back to rebuild it and apply some setting he'd forgotten ... happens to the best of us. but this isn't helping Adam much... Adam, if you're still reading this, revisit the CFC dev website to get a feel for how important it depends means when someone like Sean Corfield says it. simple things will get you most of the way there - keep your view totally separate from your data access code - identify the Gold code (ie: it costs a fortune to make) and protect that investment (eg: from change + retesting) - you can probably get away with having DAO's for single record access (CRUD) and gateway CFC's for the rest. At least it's something. Lots of choices to join up the middle bits - look at what Transfer can give you as a way to get things happening quickly for data access - queries are more convenient (and faster) than arrays of objects, structs easier to pass around than single objects - you gotta know the rules before you break them but breaking them is OK -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
You're probably right, but there are many layers to this conversation. Tools can become to much of a crutch and therefore you can rely on it to heavily and loose sight of the principals of oo design. I find myself a lot taking a lot of the java/coldfusion mindset into the C# world, always wanting to crack open below the framework surface and monkey around with the metal - even at times down to the CLR. Why? because I have been breed to distrust the tool and rely on the code first... its an ongoing battle but when it comes time to ship, semantics aside, I would rather be in a position of being nursed to the finish line then crash and burning before it :) On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Peter Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally I think the tooling in .net is the worst thing to happen to a good language. I like many of the language features in c#, but the patterns that the tooling supports (code behind, page controllers) just aren't as good as some of the best practice patterns in the Java world. Also, tooling will tend to generate code and the best code is the code that NOBODY writes and that doesn't exist. That is where frameworks come in by raising the level of abstraction. Right now I'm at a code gen conference with some of the Microsoft DSL tools team including Steve Cook and I'll see how it has improved since last year, but I don't feel that on balance the Microsoft tooling does more good than harm for building large, scalable enterprise apps. Best Wishes, Peter On Jun 25, 2008, at 2:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see you point that they (tools and frameworks) fill many of the same needs. That is probably true of every language. But I disagree with the implication that a good tool is inherently better than a good framework. The choice is much more pragmatic than that: which option offers the best features, smoothest learning curve, etc. Visual Studio is the clear winner in the .NET space and frameworks are big in ColdFusion. Personally I'm happy to get my hands dirty with plumbing - I'm sure my understanding of application design and development is the better for it. Blair On 6/25/08, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure that convo will yield a lot and provide little :) After spending some time look around for the past 5 years I've come to one sad conclusion and I'm sure it's not popular thinking.. Frameworks in coldfusion exist to compensate for lack of tooling, as if you have nothing to automate the plumbing you now have to write the automation to then keep the pieces manageable to connect. to answer this riddle, Imagine for a moment if everyone wrote .NET with notepad? as of today - where would it be tomorrow? ** On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barnes' thoughts (or similar) are being echoed over on the CFC Dev list at the moment with people like Peter Bell, Sean Corfield, Brian Kotek and our very own Mark Mandel, amongst others. http://groups.google.com/group/cfcdev/browse_thread/thread/2e90c0dbfecf5a59 Doubts about Best Practices why was fusebox invented in the firstplace? to push people into doing something more than writing spaghetti code. but you gotta have an idea of how to fix it before you can fully appreciate the problem. Hence the value of learning about design patterns. See the Donald Rumsfeld quote at the bottom let me leave you with some quotes: ... two from Albert Einstein Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction. - and - Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. ... one I got reminded from by (of all people) Gary Menzel Code for maintainance ... and Donald Rumsfeld really sums it up As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know we don't know. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
Developers typically are pattern experts, they identify a problem and seek a solution that conforms to a pattern that suites them. The more patterns you absorb, dissect and recycle the more you continue to innovate and as such the bar or baseline form where you once were has moved. Ask any coldfusion developer on this list and get them to show you code they wrote in 1998 vs. today and they'll throw statements like oh yeah, it's bad, but now I'm better – some declare this the magic of learning or with age comes wisdom, yet what's really happened here? Firstly each developer goes through this growth pattern, as once they can separate the difference between IS-A and HAS-A they in turn begin to appreciate the ideas associated with OO programming. I remember watching the entire CF industry react to CF 5's existence, with guys like Sean Corfield constantly pushing the various folks within the industry to embrace OO and stop writing stupid solutions (thinking on it, Sean has done a lot for CF). Once OO has been discovered, they eventually move onto Framework appreciation stage. They typically will first road test someone else's code or many of them, that is until they get weary of following behind someone's tail lights and decide to write their own. I could do this a little better is what echoes through their minds..In that deep dark secret area.. They begin to write, they'll most likely hand out or get their peers to use it, but overall they still haven't discovered fully the design patterns approach to frameworks (Methodology vs. Frameworks). That is until they decide to research how Java folks do xyz or maybe even .NET (choose your own muse). This is when the design patterns begin to creep into the conversation, and before you know it they are reading Martin Fowlers J2EE Design Patterns catalogue which is freely available online. Now they have true religion… this is the scariest but most necessary part of a developer's career. This is where they'll happily embrace the idea of writing 115 Lines of Code to write Hello World, as in the end this is about abstraction and separation of unnecessary tightly coupled objects or domains for the greater good of that which is design patterns. What was the problem being solved again? Who cares, did you not see how I wrote this kickarse observer pattern in my collections/structs? This is when the senior developer in the room needs to step up, assess the situation and take the design pattern pup under his/her wing. It's time they showed them the path to immortality, the path in which you daily use a framework + design pattern but do so in a way that you don't think. As this is when you eventually will lead into the path of learning the one fundamental lesson of all. The best code written is the code you don't write. You may lose a job or two in the process of getting to this point, but you'll eventually figure out fast that 115 lines of code may win you a prize for pure OO solutions being delivered, but writing hello world in 2 lines lets you ship faster. Developer (Object Warrior) - Snr Developer (Framework Fan) - Programming Analyst (Design Pattern Zealot) - Architect (Field Commander) - Developer. The cycle is brutal but necessary. *Still want to write a framework?* On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:41 AM, Kevan Stannard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Adam Head First Design Patterns is a great book, but if you are quite new to OO concepts then it may be a bit of a difficult read. The examples are in Java so basic exposure to the language would certainly help. To get the most out of it you should first have an understanding of OO concepts such as inheritance, interfaces and abstract classes (and their syntax in Java). You might also like to have a look at Brian Rinaldi's OO resource list. There are a couple of presentations referenced there (Matt Woodward, Sean Corfield) that might get you off to a good start. http://www.remotesynthesis.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/7/18/Objects-and-Framewor ks--the-Big-Resource-List -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Chapman Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 3:47 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] CFC Design Patterns Hi All, I am looking at re-vamping the way I build cfcs and want to move to a more OO approach.. I have recently started using coldspring and am after pplz thoughts on their favoured design pattern and how best to organise cfcs.. Any feedback or links appreciated.. Regards, Adam Chapman Portplus www.portplus.com T: 03 9800 -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http
[cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns
I'm sure that convo will yield a lot and provide little :) After spending some time look around for the past 5 years I've come to one sad conclusion and I'm sure it's not popular thinking.. Frameworks in coldfusion exist to compensate for lack of tooling, as if you have nothing to automate the plumbing you now have to write the automation to then keep the pieces manageable to connect. to answer this riddle, Imagine for a moment if everyone wrote .NET with notepad? as of today - where would it be tomorrow? ** On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barnes' thoughts (or similar) are being echoed over on the CFC Dev list at the moment with people like Peter Bell, Sean Corfield, Brian Kotek and our very own Mark Mandel, amongst others. http://groups.google.com/group/cfcdev/browse_thread/thread/2e90c0dbfecf5a59 Doubts about Best Practices why was fusebox invented in the firstplace? to push people into doing something more than writing spaghetti code. but you gotta have an idea of how to fix it before you can fully appreciate the problem. Hence the value of learning about design patterns. See the Donald Rumsfeld quote at the bottom let me leave you with some quotes: ... two from Albert Einstein Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction. - and - Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. ... one I got reminded from by (of all people) Gary Menzel Code for maintainance ... and Donald Rumsfeld really sums it up As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know we don't know. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: wow! WebDU must be brilliant this year... all I hear is crickets chirping
Any blog posts ? any commentary? any good / bad news? :) On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:09 AM, michael sharman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haha, was a good night of bowling and drinking last night. I can't wait for next year :) On Jun 13, 9:22 am, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't talk so loud. Makes my head hurt. * ow * Mark On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Photos from day 1: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaysmoljak/sets/72157605566362675/ On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:51 AM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: everyone must be having a great time and really riveted to their presentations: the blogosphere is empty hardly anyone is on IM even the twittering has dried up:http://twemes.com/webdu too busy to report back... sounds like a case of no news is _very_ good news. -- Kay Smoljak business:www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W:www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: wow! WebDU must be brilliant this year... all I hear is crickets chirping
*jealous*.. I so was in the mood to relax at a good WebDU this year, but *sigh*.. I was so annoyed that I ended up attending BarCamp Seattle (At Adobe's Seattle Campus) where I was on the RIA panel and ended up Evangelising Adobe AIR/Flex as hardly anyone in the room understood the technologies.. i mean.. that's just bad and major WebDU withdrawls coming through! :) On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 10:43 PM, AJ Mercer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have all the intentions of finishing mine off. It was very good. Very well organised and pleanty of content to choose from. Well done Daemon On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any blog posts ? any commentary? any good / bad news? :) I think everyone's still hungover. Blog posts are definitely coming soon from me though. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: enterthegoatlady.com | heapsbad.com -- AJ Mercer Web Log: http://webonix.net -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Web on the Piste 08
*yawn* :) .. So about WOTP :) ... On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, Actually it was a good article, they were talking about Flex Builder vs Expression Studio / Visual Studio in that case, but they did say that Adobe killed in terms of market share of the player and that MS has a lot of catchup to do if it wants to be successful there. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mark Mandel *Sent:* Friday, 6 June 2008 12:05 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Web on the Piste 08 Because we know that everything written on paper * must * be true ;o) Looks to be an interesting conference, even tho' I don't think I will be able to attend. Mark On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It feels wrong if I attend a Conference with Microsoft as a major sponsor. I just read an article in current magazine about flex and they said it was a toy compared to Silverlight Expression studio. So I feel if I saw the difference in person I might be lured to the dark side, and since we are just going down the Flex side it's too soon to change again. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 6 June 2008 7:37 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Web on the Piste 08 *jealous*.. Loved this conference. On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Grant Straker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Just to let you all know Web on the Piste 08 is all go and we have just signed Microsoft and Cynergy Systems as Gold sponsors which is great news and helps pay the beer bills! For those of you that didn't make it last year it's a very intimate conference and a great venue for learning, networking and having the odd adventure or two!. We have the draft agenda up http://www.webonthepiste.com/webonthepiste/agenda/agenda_home.cfm and we still have a couple of big name US based Flex gurus to put in once we have them confirmed up. The theme this year is around usability and how you use the rich technologies from Adobe and MS to build better web applications along with a splattering of general web stuff. We have Robert Hoekman Jr who's book, Designing the Obvious is one the best usability books out there, coming as a keynote speaker to kick things off. Both Adobe and Microsoft are sending top international speakers and we're flying down some top Flex gurus from the US. This is on top of the best local talent around. The snow has been ordered and was due to arrive this week so it will be a great weekend as well. Last years event really went well and this year should be even better. We've stopped the early bird rate but if you email [EMAIL PROTECTED] she may be able to do a deal if you are on this list! Word on the street is that we may also offer the Cairngorm intro course (delivered by Thomas Burleson who has written the official Cairngorm course for Adobe) for FREE the day before the conference but I'll confirm that up later this week. I've also heard that Geoff Bowers is going to use all the money he's making from the Farcry commercial licenses to run an open bar tab on the Thursday evening. He said something like you guys couldn't drink it , faster than I'm making it!!. Cheers Grant http://www.zoomflex.com/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Web on the Piste 08
*jealous*.. Loved this conference. On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Grant Straker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Just to let you all know Web on the Piste 08 is all go and we have just signed Microsoft and Cynergy Systems as Gold sponsors which is great news and helps pay the beer bills! For those of you that didn't make it last year it's a very intimate conference and a great venue for learning, networking and having the odd adventure or two!. We have the draft agenda up http://www.webonthepiste.com/webonthepiste/agenda/agenda_home.cfm and we still have a couple of big name US based Flex gurus to put in once we have them confirmed up. The theme this year is around usability and how you use the rich technologies from Adobe and MS to build better web applications along with a splattering of general web stuff. We have Robert Hoekman Jr who's book, Designing the Obvious is one the best usability books out there, coming as a keynote speaker to kick things off. Both Adobe and Microsoft are sending top international speakers and we're flying down some top Flex gurus from the US. This is on top of the best local talent around. The snow has been ordered and was due to arrive this week so it will be a great weekend as well. Last years event really went well and this year should be even better. We've stopped the early bird rate but if you email [EMAIL PROTECTED] she may be able to do a deal if you are on this list! Word on the street is that we may also offer the Cairngorm intro course (delivered by Thomas Burleson who has written the official Cairngorm course for Adobe) for FREE the day before the conference but I'll confirm that up later this week. I've also heard that Geoff Bowers is going to use all the money he's making from the Farcry commercial licenses to run an open bar tab on the Thursday evening. He said something like you guys couldn't drink it , faster than I'm making it!!. Cheers Grant http://www.zoomflex.com/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Is MS blocking Firefox ?
We don't block competitors. It's not our style as it sends all the wrong messages in all the right places. - Scott Barnes Microsoft. On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 4:44 PM, KC Kuok [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just wondering whether anyone else can open in Firefox the MS support website? http://support.microsoft.com/ I can't seem to get it open in Firefox, only in IE... Any ideas/ constructive comments? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
You forgot accomodation, spending money needs a bit more padding as well. That and transfers between hotels etc. Oh and dinners oh and lunches... On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plane Tickets $2k pp = $8k Spending Money $2k Total = $10k Which means $5-$10k worth of coke, no wonder your body gets confused :) Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Thursday, 22 May 2008 5:03 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!! Or for Disneyland packages: Come to Disneyland, spend 15hrs on a plane, pay around $15-20k in total for 4 people only to line up for 60mins per ride in 35 degree heat with little or no shade whilst drinking Coke (see below) that has enormous amounts of Corn Syrup which your body gets confused over and decides to store as fat - Believe in the Magic. (sorry, that was my exp anyway heheh). Anyway it's about promoting a experience, people want to hear the positives and the experience associated to the said products, it's the glass is always half full On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, more towards the one after yours. As for the Widgetsoft... fair enough, don't agree but understand with regards to your current opinion. Everything someone does to promote a product will have marketing spin to it, as all marketers are liars (Seth Godin). I mean would you buy coke if it had on the package: Will rot your teeth, give you a massive sugar high with an equal massively low to follow and although you assume you're re-hydrating your body, you're in fact dehydrating it more Scott. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.I wouldnt even try to explain it to him. It's a pity that Microsoft didnt think any of those uses might want to know what it is. Some more examples of this lack of explanation:When Windows Update says i need to update my machine, i just get a message saying you have some updates but no easy way to find out what those updates are, and decide whether I need them.or XPPro Service Pack 3 - says there are some feature enhancements included, but no way to find out what those enhahcements are. (I have discovered after installing SP3 that my Remote Desktop no longer works, so presumably the SP3 changed something there without my knowledge or approval. I now have to spend time tracking it down and changing whatever it is back again). A few years ago, I found myself on someone's mailing list and was bombarded with stuff about an international SOA conference that was coming up. I had never seen that term before, and nowhere did they use
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
find myself frequently asking myself, do I care? Is that something I should know about? More often than not, i say 'no - cant be bothered right now. And all it would have taken is a simple for those that havent seen it yet, WidgetSoft is a small, application that gets you coffee when you need it, and delivers it to you desk 15 seconds before you think of the idea. Crisp, plain language that is free of marketing gobbldegook and motherhood statements. Phrases like gives users a richer experience should be banned, because every product since DOS has claimed that and it's meaningless. That's all I'm saying. And I mentioned Microsoft because it was the Silverlight download thing that prompted two clients in one morning to ask me the same thing, when with a little bit of thought and a little less arrogance, the marketing people who thought up such splendid graphics on that SIlverlight page could have explained it themselves and saved everyone a lot of trouble. It's their bloody product after all, not mine. One of the great truths of motivation is 'if you want to persuade people to do something - get their credit cards out and buy something, change their opinions, vote for you, join your religion, install your software - you have to paint a vivid picture of them getting the benefits. They have to be imagining themselves better off in some way as a result of doing what you want them to do. Confounding them with flowery gobbledegook and motherhood statements wont do it. Of course you might not have been referring to my post. In which case i've taken the opportunity to rant again. And im not sorry. g Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET http://asp.net/ hosting from AUD$15/month On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what your point was :) Is this another Microsoft is a monopolistic company therefore they are evil - sent via Windows owned PC rant? Confidence in which customer? Do you think the average say YouTube punter sits there and ponders about Adobe's ethics, their history and overall what does this runtime install mean to me should I hit Install. I think the whole Flash vs Silverlight debate's are stupid, as usually it's used as a soapbox to denounce Microsoft which *shrug* each to their own. I like the company I work for as do billions of other folks around the world. We have 1.5million+ downloads a day of the runtime. If there were no confidence in the product, it would decrease, not increase? -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
Or for Disneyland packages: Come to Disneyland, spend 15hrs on a plane, pay around $15-20k in total for 4 people only to line up for 60mins per ride in 35 degree heat with little or no shade whilst drinking Coke (see below) that has enormous amounts of Corn Syrup which your body gets confused over and decides to store as fat - Believe in the Magic. (sorry, that was my exp anyway heheh). Anyway it's about promoting a experience, people want to hear the positives and the experience associated to the said products, it's the glass is always half full On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, more towards the one after yours. As for the Widgetsoft... fair enough, don't agree but understand with regards to your current opinion. Everything someone does to promote a product will have marketing spin to it, as all marketers are liars (Seth Godin). I mean would you buy coke if it had on the package: Will rot your teeth, give you a massive sugar high with an equal massively low to follow and although you assume you're re-hydrating your body, you're in fact dehydrating it more Scott. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, it you're referring to my post in this thread, I specifcally said that it isnt a Microsoft is the evil empire rant. It's about how so many people (not just Microsoft but they're the most prominent offender in my view) think that merely using the name of something is enough. How many times have we all seen someone announce proudly that 'version 3.2 of WIdgetSoft is now released!! and wondered, what the hell is WIdgetSoft? I have a machine that's groaning under the weight of around 100 processes. It's working ok, but if i installed everything that people wanted me to install, then I'd end up with a bazillion conflicts and a whole lot of precious RAM used up for things i don't need. As it is, i havent got a clue what some of those 100 processes are. I just know that if i close some of them, things break. So I leave them running, and trust my anti-virus to make sure they're all ok. So my policy is 'just because someone says i need to install this, is not good enough reason. I need to decide for myself whether i need to install it. I remember back to the days when i had Real Audio installed, and it kept taking charge of things and changing my settings, installing spyware and other things. it was a thoroughly unpleasant piece of software to have on my machine. And I had two calls this week from clients asking me what this Silverlight thing is, and should they install it. I was hoping to be able to call them back and say something like yes it's ok to install. have a look at http://url here and you can see for yourself what it does. But there's no such page. The one that I eventually found after 5 clicks to get there by the most direct route, says things like : Custom branded experiences using 2D vector graphics, animation, styling, and skinning.I think i know what that means but it's totally meaningless to my client who's a furniture manufacturer. And the other client who makes and imports high-performance car parts, doesnt understand the difference between Vista and XP. Is confused about the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.I wouldnt even try to explain it to him. It's a pity that Microsoft didnt think any of those uses might want to know what it is. Some more examples of this lack of explanation:When Windows Update says i need to update my machine, i just get a message saying you have some updates but no easy way to find out what those updates are, and decide whether I need them.or XPPro Service Pack 3 - says there are some feature enhancements included, but no way to find out what those enhahcements are. (I have discovered after installing SP3 that my Remote Desktop no longer works, so presumably the SP3 changed something there without my knowledge or approval. I now have to spend time tracking it down and changing whatever it is back again). A few years ago, I found myself on someone's mailing list and was bombarded with stuff about an international SOA conference that was coming up. I had never seen that term before, and nowhere did they use the term in full, so i found myself curious as to what SOA was, and was it some technology i needed to know about. It went on for weeks - SOA this and SOA that - inviting people to this SOA conference - the speakers and SOA experts speaking at the conference none of whom i'd ever heard of. I assumed it was something in IT but no idea what SOA was. So their entire marketing was wasted on me at least. Perhaps they figured 'if they dont know what SOA is, they're not going to spend thousands to come to the conference. Probably right i suppose, but all it would have taken was a simple sentence saying what SOA is, or maybe just spelling out
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
:) Sparkle was the code name for Blend for a start, Jolt is probably the codename you're searching for with Silverlight, so if you're going to trash mah product, do so with the right name ;) A lot of reasons go into why we have Flash at present, mostly they centre around the word legacy. Today Microsoft still uses Flash simply because we helped give birth Flash as well seeded it's actual growth via previous couplings of Flash in all Windows XP installs (that's a hefty machine to migrate across). Tomorrow, Silverlight will be our future, will it happen over night? Nope, but its where we are heading and if you want to keep score, that's fine, personally you'll be worth more to your customers on what type of solutions are being built and how they can suite their needs further instead of Microsoft is using Flash, Adobe is using Windows Vista, Microsoft is using PDF, Adobe is installing Flash Lite on Windows Mobile? scoring. As in the end that yields what? On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 3:30 AM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, Seriously? Microsoft use Flash all over their sites, and there is a very good reason. It's because the one thing that Flash does that Silverlight can't is reach 98% of people. Sparkle has a lot of catching up to do before Microsoft can use it main stream. Regards Dale Fraser *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Monday, 19 May 2008 3:40 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!! There is nothing in this site that can't be done in Silverlight. That being said, I don't have an official reason for the use of Flash inside this site, suffice to say it was most likely an agency decision with whom we outsource the creative to, and not ours. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's all a moment in time. While Flash is on Version 9, Silverlight still hasn't got the coverage (or perhaps features the MS designers want) ... yet. in other words you're talking about today, but not necessarily tomorrow. May the best tool win. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:01 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] br -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
I have no idea what your point was :) Is this another Microsoft is a monopolistic company therefore they are evil - sent via Windows owned PC rant? Confidence in which customer? Do you think the average say YouTube punter sits there and ponders about Adobe's ethics, their history and overall what does this runtime install mean to me should I hit Install. I think the whole Flash vs Silverlight debate's are stupid, as usually it's used as a soapbox to denounce Microsoft which *shrug* each to their own. I like the company I work for as do billions of other folks around the world. We have 1.5million+ downloads a day of the runtime. If there were no confidence in the product, it would decrease, not increase? On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cannot accept that, what you have written, but since we are looking at history, I look for answers as well, and for past history tells me so, VHS versus BetaMax, Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD. At the moment Flash is a good platform, and widely used, Browser wise, you can go to a customer and have some confidence that the customer will not turn around and say Flash is not going to work as not enough people have it. So tomorrow as you say let us speculate that Silverlight improves, but Flash improves more, it would still come down to the confidence in the customer primarily. (Of course if Flash turns nasty then even if the customer has confidence in the numbers the developer may want to look elsewhere. But I digress.) So what could change that confidence in the customer, regards numbers? Microsoft boots the Flash player out of future versions of Windows, whatever form that takes, in favour of Silverlight. Microsoft wouldn't do that would they? That wouldn't be a level playing field would it? They wouldn't make life harder for end users just to win this war would they? That wouldn't be monopolistic would it? What does history tell me? Anyway just my 0.02 cents worth. On May 20, 7:36 pm, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :) Sparkle was the code name for Blend for a start, Jolt is probably the codename you're searching for with Silverlight, so if you're going to trash mah product, do so with the right name ;) A lot of reasons go into why we have Flash at present, mostly they centre around the word legacy. Today Microsoft still uses Flash simply because we helped give birth Flash as well seeded it's actual growth via previous couplings of Flash in all Windows XP installs (that's a hefty machine to migrate across). Tomorrow, Silverlight will be our future, will it happen over night? Nope, but its where we are heading and if you want to keep score, that's fine, personally you'll be worth more to your customers on what type of solutions are being built and how they can suite their needs further instead of Microsoft is using Flash, Adobe is using Windows Vista, Microsoft is using PDF, Adobe is installing Flash Lite on Windows Mobile? scoring. As in the end that yields what? -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Microsoft Uses Flash!!!
There is nothing in this site that can't be done in Silverlight. That being said, I don't have an official reason for the use of Flash inside this site, suffice to say it was most likely an agency decision with whom we outsource the creative to, and not ours. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's all a moment in time. While Flash is on Version 9, Silverlight still hasn't got the coverage (or perhaps features the MS designers want) ... yet. in other words you're talking about today, but not necessarily tomorrow. May the best tool win. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:01 PM, AUG Vic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry to burst your bubble, but Microsoft has been using Flash in certain places for ages, pre Silverlight. The people at end of doing serious stuff need to :-) On May 14, 12:29 pm, Owen West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out... http://www.worldwidetelescope.org Errr...Silverlight? Anybody? Gotta love Microsoft sometimes... Owen West M.SysDev (C.Sturt) MCP MCAD MCSD Computer Programmer Applications Development Team Information Technology Telecommunications Hunter New England Health Ph: (02) 4921 4194 Fax: (02) 4921 4191 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Fwd: Comment added to Blog: CFInsider / Entry: Things ColdFusion is not... and... Why ColdFusion isn't free...
The thing to note here and to highlight Sean's comments: ...Yup, I'll vouch for RB. And she's right about the death comments. I've been railing against the CF community lately on this issue - nearly all of the CF is dead threads start *inside* the CF community which is a disaster for the language! Anything that helps support CF in ANZ is a good thing... He has a valid point, first rule about really bad PR.. don't talk about the fact it's really bad PR. Remember that song from Shaggy, ..It wasn't me.. - Learn it well :) (even if it's the crappiest Song on earth). Even say if it was dying, to acknowledge it just does you little or no favours :) On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 5:28 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep.. When we got more java developers, the conflict started. But we as a company have grown faster in Java development, only because we offer consultations. But my boss an ex Coldfusion developer, got onto the open source bandwagon. Coldfusion was not in his sites anymore. Hence how we could have developed our latest product so fast. *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rae Buerckner *Sent:* Saturday, 10 May 2008 5:22 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Fwd: Comment added to Blog: CFInsider / Entry: Things ColdFusion is not... and... Why ColdFusion isn't free... The problem is that people hear only what they want to know, and at the moment they don't want to know. They don't want to know because they don't understand :) On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 5:18 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well now that we have openBD, that should be made easier. *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rae Buerckner *Sent:* Saturday, 10 May 2008 5:17 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Fwd: Comment added to Blog: CFInsider / Entry: Things ColdFusion is not... and... Why ColdFusion isn't free... That's ok, no offence taken at all. I was glad the thread started, as I was currently having issues with people in Java land not understanding at all that CF was a totally invaluable tool for them to use :) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: ColdFusion Isn't a Programming Language?
representation of the said TIOBE list so if anyone can point me to it I'd be grateful. It appears this list wants to deliver a ranking order of popularity of various means to deliver web applications. Since CF is clearly such a means it belongs on the list. End of story. No need for an internal debate/fight among CF programmers dismayed at possibly a losss of prestige, we should be discussing the means necessary to set TIOBE right, that is, assuming said TIOBE list matters at all to anyone except the analy retentive few that want to argue the finer points. FWIW, Bryn Parrott On May 5, 2:31 pm, Peter Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone else seen anything about this?! http://www.pbell.com/index.cfm/2008/5/5/ColdFusion-Isnt-a-Programming. .. -- Michael Dinowitz (http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdinowitz) President: House of Fusion (http://www.houseoffusion.com) Publisher: Fusion Authority (http://www.fusionauthority.com) Adobe Community Expert / Advanced Certified ColdFusion Professional -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: [OzFlex] First User Group Meeting - 12th May
P.S This is for melbourneites i take it ;) On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:31 AM, ozflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After searching long and hard for a suitable venue for OzFlex finally the wait is OVER! I am happy to announce that OzFlex will be having its first meeting on Monday 12th of May at Loop Bar. Loop bar will be OzFlex's permenant home and the meeting will be held on the second Monday of each month. Its shaping up to be a great night, come down there will be an introduction of OzFlex, Matt Johnston (Manager) a small presentation on Adobe AIR Application Development. Finger Food Beverages provided (limited). A full copy of Flex Builder 3 Professional will be given away as a door prize(RSVP required) and there will be a few other goodies up for grabs too! Arrive 6.30 for a 7-7.15pm start. For more information and to RSVP visit http://ozflex.urbanwise.com/ Venue: http://www.looponline.com.au/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
I in part agree with Rae, that maybe the groups could do with an overhaul, in that are you being to fragmented? or is that a good thing? maybe a Australia wide survey would be in order .. I also think that to isolate in on one technology maybe limiting in some parts - hear me out. In that should consolidate more around themes vs technology specifics, eg: RIA, Enterprise LOB, Branded Experiences etc where is it all heading and what are the moving parts found within the belly of this beast. In that if you all come together as one entity over a theme, the technology influence will happen naturally and it's less religion and more state. Floating a thought is all.. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Rae Buerckner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You really need to add LiveCycle ES to that, contact me for Syd Vic contacts to help you with groups, I can get you LiveCycle people. My head hurts because of an EOI I am responding to that pretty much calls for Flash/Flex/AIR/CF/LiveCycle ES, for an SOA implementation. All people in the above tech arena's should be playing together now, all of the above technologies are in the same business group at Adobe (not sure about Flash). Or perhaps there should be separate groups for Adobe Enterprise Solutions? Being a person who is across all of those technologies is scary stuff and a huge learning curve in some instances, if you don't know SOA terminology. I know 4 out of 5 of the technologies, briefly touched on Flash back the late 90's. Knew LiveCycle 7, LiveCycle 8 ES has been totally rebuilt to target the SOA market with Flex/AIR/AJAX/PDF front and back ends. The issue is that Adobe don't have an ESB, any ideas out there? Cheers, Rae On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice move, I think that this should happen in Vic also. In fact the Flash / Flex / CF UG should become one. Especially the CF / Flex stuff, there is a lot of cross benefit there for both sides. Who knows might happen, the Flex UG Manager was at the CF UG this month :) Regards Dale Fraser -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Velevitch Sent: Thursday, 24 April 2008 5:37 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people? The NSW CFUG is about to merge with Sydney Flash Platform Developers to become Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney. The next meeting is on Monday (RSVP and details on http://apugs2008april.eventbrite.com) On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Eliseo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In that case can someone point me in the direction of the Sydney CFUG? ;) -- Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.flashdev.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney April meeting: Setting Fire To Your Community Date: Mon 28th April 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs2008april.eventbrite.com/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
Barry, I disagree. I've probed people from Php, .NET, RoR, Flash, Silverlight, Java and even COBOL (lol).. I floated the notion that what would you prefer a technology focused group based around one brand, or a themed technology group that is based around many brands but adhere to the theme. I think we are in a new age of technology adoption, the 2002 days of one team vs another is pretty much getting behind us. I for one cannot consume enough around Adobe, Google, Mozilla, Microsoft and even the various partners around the world of each technology and what they are doing. I'd propose and again this is a running thought that you all consider a third option and focus in on themes. eg: Enterprise LOB User Group - How to go from Documents to Digital, a technology oversight. Then various entities from various slices in technology (livecycle, sharepoint, hummingbird etc all get up and throw some possible solutions and theories out there on the floor for others to pick over. I'd wager strongly that you all would grow not only way more mature in your technology focus, but you'll gain appreciation for various other ways to problem solve and then draw on that experience to make your preferred technology better. The worst successful FUD was the notion that people will drop a technology tomorrow and adopt a new one tomorrow overnight, that isn't true. It takes months if not years to ramp up to a technology and usually the older we get, the more firmly planted we are in what we know and trust - thus I work for Microsoft and use Coldfusion (years of using it has left me still trusting it.) my 2c. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: totally honest answer? occasionally it's very good (over two doz), but most of the time, it's poor - for both. On those poor occasions, add both together and it'd be up to good. but there's the problem - throw the Flex stuff in with the CF and the .Net and PHP'ers would wonder why they were there. but the really important number is, to be honest, the number of active members - people willing to put up their hand, or make suggestions and then follow through, or even religiously turning up. and those particular numbers are very poor. in all honesty. I suspect that it's just Brisbane but it has to be a special event - something they're particularly interested in - for bulk people to bother. and in a way it's like kids sport on the weekend. Some parents throw the kids out the car as they try to escape as fast as they can, while others are always at the oval volunteering as goal umpires, timekeeper, linesmen or water carriers. Our little AFL team couldn't play this season without a manager - the wife volunteered eventually, the only one that bothered replying to the coach's email. the place I'm just about to finish up at - half a dozen CF'ers - not one has been to a CFUG, not one has heard of WebDU (that's a story in itself). I asked one today how they kept their ProfDev up, kept their skills current basically they don't. Because there;s been loose talk about using a framework at the place, I sent them a link to Mandel's Transfer Breezo tomorrow (2.00pm, BTW - check his site). I don't think they've seen a Connect presentation either. People on this list have (generally, gut feeling) so much more current skill than a lot of CF'ers who aren't on this list. Forgvie me for stating the obvious but staying still is actually going backwards - there's such a thing as progress, ready to send the unwary the same direction as COBOL programmers. here endith the sermon. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: the great Aussie brain drain (was: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?)
heheh :) I know whom you are talking of and all i can say is it's about bloody time this person got promoted/boosted. As a competitor he will be descent threat but as someone whom has interacted with him/her over the years, take names and kick ass ;) FYI: The catch22 for me is once i hit state-side I'll get privy to secrets (that many competitors will want to know), so I'm likely to go a lot quieter as I'll know things and could let them slip, so it's safer i go quiet for a while. Thus i don't mind getting back to a distraction such as Coldfusion. Play in my sandpit, make some basic CF projects that are outside my charter that way i can still interact but not give the game away. I am looking to spinup a noobie zone for 3D modellers in Maya and i'll be writing some CF based website out of it mixed with various UX possibilities. I won't talk about the how or theories / propaganda about my technology selection(s) but i will talk more about Maya :) So i'm not totally off the reservation and i do fly back to Australia every 3-6 months :) That all being said, i think cross-breeding CF'ers across states/countries is a positive thing. Spread the influence! :) On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:12 AM, barry.b [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well it seems that, in the same fashion as Brisbane talent acts as a feeder into Sydney to fill positions (and Melbourne - g'day Ben.Y), Australia feeds into the U.S a little bird has told me [1] that Barnes isn't the only one to get a promotion and lured state-side. A long-time Adobe/MACR/Allaire -er will be soon making themselves at home in SanFran to help along another Adobe (and former MACR) server product I hold dear. Scott - sounds like you'll soon have another ex-pat drinking and sparing partner [2]. Keep this up and there'll be no one left in the country... [1] the little bird lives in the public domain and is easy to find. Don't give me grief, OK? [2] http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=dhl=engeocode=saddr=San+Francisco,+San+Francisco,+California,+United+Statesdaddr=redmond+washingtonmra=pemrcr=0sll=42.716099,-122.284698sspn=19.036047,36.914062safe=onie=UTF8ll=42.714732,-122.651367spn=19.036047,36.914063z=5 -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: the great Aussie brain drain (was: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?)
p.s I'll be catching up with Spike in Seattle! hehe On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heheh :) I know whom you are talking of and all i can say is it's about bloody time this person got promoted/boosted. As a competitor he will be descent threat but as someone whom has interacted with him/her over the years, take names and kick ass ;) FYI: The catch22 for me is once i hit state-side I'll get privy to secrets (that many competitors will want to know), so I'm likely to go a lot quieter as I'll know things and could let them slip, so it's safer i go quiet for a while. Thus i don't mind getting back to a distraction such as Coldfusion. Play in my sandpit, make some basic CF projects that are outside my charter that way i can still interact but not give the game away. I am looking to spinup a noobie zone for 3D modellers in Maya and i'll be writing some CF based website out of it mixed with various UX possibilities. I won't talk about the how or theories / propaganda about my technology selection(s) but i will talk more about Maya :) So i'm not totally off the reservation and i do fly back to Australia every 3-6 months :) That all being said, i think cross-breeding CF'ers across states/countries is a positive thing. Spread the influence! :) On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:12 AM, barry.b [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well it seems that, in the same fashion as Brisbane talent acts as a feeder into Sydney to fill positions (and Melbourne - g'day Ben.Y), Australia feeds into the U.S a little bird has told me [1] that Barnes isn't the only one to get a promotion and lured state-side. A long-time Adobe/MACR/Allaire -er will be soon making themselves at home in SanFran to help along another Adobe (and former MACR) server product I hold dear. Scott - sounds like you'll soon have another ex-pat drinking and sparing partner [2]. Keep this up and there'll be no one left in the country... [1] the little bird lives in the public domain and is easy to find. Don't give me grief, OK? [2] http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=dhl=engeocode=saddr=San+Francisco,+San+Francisco,+California,+United+Statesdaddr=redmond+washingtonmra=pemrcr=0sll=42.716099,-122.284698sspn=19.036047,36.914062safe=onie=UTF8ll=42.714732,-122.651367spn=19.036047,36.914063z=5 -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
diverted to Redmond instead. [1] wild guess based on gut feeling. ymmv [2] managers and team leaders could be well served to insist their employees keep up to date with their skill set. Resting on the same knowledge that they used 4,5,6 years ago isn't doing anyone any favours: it's short-term thinking and holds the business back from progress and opportunities. Productivity lost on professional development is saved bigtime with better solutions. [3] I know an organisation that have the strategic plan to shrink CF in favour of .NET. Some of them think their VB6 skills will give them a head start into .Net 3.0 ... boy are they in for a rude shock... Neither hear nor there.. VB6 world is complex, there is a lot we at Microsoft could do better here but that's another discussion for another list ;) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
One other point - M@ has a way with just slamming a point right between the eyes, and that's why we deported him to the UK, that and he's just having way to much fun there - is to *buddy up.* Don't do this alone, find your local CFUG and get them to help you, as in the end they'll gain a storm trooper in the CF Battles :) and if the CFUG ditches you, well that's just bloody poor form (highly doubt that will ever happen). There is never a bad developer, just bad teachers and/or students with bad attitudes :) eheh On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:24 PM, M@ Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when I was first interviewed some two years ago by Gruden, MX had only just come out, this is why you shouldn't post so much on a public mailing list, MX has been around now for about 7 years (or at least the beta??) not 2. I agree totally with what Scott said. Also look at it this way, people from all these companies you mentioned are on this list. now if I was a competitor with say Gruden for example and I wanted to have a better team of Ninja's I wouldn't look at these posts and go well gruden don't want him maybe we should take him, its not logical. if you sound to desperate it will sound like something is wrong with your skill set/references that your not mentioning. just let people know your looking for a job and leave it at that. spend less time whinging and more time gaining new skills. most frame works out there you can brush up on in an hour. spend some time getting a basic grasp of the top 4 frameworks. when a new version of CF comes out (preferably in the beta stage) grab a copy and in your own time (don't expect to only work when you employer is paying you, your employer won't be in your next job interview) build a little personal project for yourself that only you will ever see but uses every single tag and function so that way ya know exactly what is there and what they do etc. Hope those tips help, just remember this is a public list, odds are in your next interview the person sitting across from you has read this list etc. There would need to be fairly exceptional circumstances for us to consider such a candidate. why not write back (politely) and say hi, that was 2 years ago, since then I've become a super ninja and have solidly been OO'ing and using XYZ frameworks etc etc. and if you haven't take it as friendly advice from them and get cracking improving on your weaknesses, that's the fun thing about this industry, finding out your weaknesses and improving on them then reaping the rewards. best of luck M@ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: My Yearly WebDU Rant
Actually I used to get a limo between Sydney to North Ryde / Hilton every time i travelled to Sydney. Last week I caught the train for the first time, a whopping $13.50 (heh) and I got to the Hilton in less time. Now by that math, you should arrive at the Casino/Hotel of Choice not only in less time but less outlay. So there you go, you just freed up some beer funds... YESthis year Microsoft aren't going to be there with the AMEX (those limos rack up ya know). Scott. On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:36 PM, M@ Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taxis $200 maybe fly them to sydney airport and get them to get the train to the hotel, instead of flying them to adelaide airport and having them catch a cab to sydney. its been almost 2 years since I've been in oz but surely taxi's haven't gone up that much? surely the person can get a hotel near by the conference and just walk there each day. I guess the further away they are the cheaper the accom, but this could be lost on taxi expense. or am i the only 1 who ever catches the train from the airport and thinks woh what an expensive short train ride lol. M@ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Web on the Piste 2008 - Early Bird Registration closes April 30th!
*Off topic note:* If anyone wants some reasoning or thoughts behind why this is also worth attending let me just say this. My wife was pregnant with my daughter and she was due in August last year (the same time WOTP was on). I not only still attended this fine conference, had blast and made it home 3 hours before she gave birth. Never question my commitment to the community ;) Seriously, Skiing/Snowboarding, Drinking, Quality Geek-out Conversations, Great atmosphere and above all else i learnt a lot :) On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Web on the Piste 2008 will take place on August 20th 21st at the ultimate venue, Queenstown, New Zealand. Visit www.webonthepiste.com for the latest news and to register. Early Bird registration closes on April 30th. Web on the Piste 2007 was an outstanding success with 100% of the attendees surveyed saying they will be back again next year. With 21 top local and International speakers, awesome sessions, the most amazing location, great social events and some skiing to boot it really was the best conference of the year. This years conference is going to be all about Usability and Rich Internet Technologies such as Flex, Silverlight and AJAX. -- Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.flashdev.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney April meeting: Setting Fire To Your Community Date: Mon 28th April 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs2008april.eventbrite.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: My Yearly WebDU Rant
Not true.. I'm still having nightmares about once attending a Web Government Governance Conference in 2007... talk about pain.. :) On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this where I bust out the 'Do you know how much it costs me to go to cf.Objective()?' card? I honestly don't think you can put a price on what you get out of conferences - there is * always * a return on investment. Mark On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Justin Mclean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dale, I live in Sydney and I'm a freelancer/contractor. I've gone every year it has been run and paid for it with my own money (and time). It has paid for itself many times over in terms of new work found, knowledge gained, inspiration and networking. It has the highest ratio of Adobe employees, guru's and interesting people to attendees than of any of the other conferences I've been too. Basically it costs money not to go! Justin -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: adding a label/instructional text to a flashform (CF7)
Barry why not inject the label in via AS code? From memory ASFusion.com had something on their site years ago about doing this. As at the end of the day you've got Flex 1.x for free under the hood, take it out for a test spin ;) http://www.asfusion.com/examples/ On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:28 PM, barry.b [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: many thanx Chris - that's getting me closer. the strange thing is that I'm already using type=horizontal and as soon as I add the CFFORMITEM / ... both text boxes and the label/ text go vertical. remove the label/text and the two text boxes are horizontal again. CFFORMGROUP TYPE=horizontal CFINPUT TYPE=text NAME=UserID VALUE=#UserNo# REQUIRED=yes MESSAGE=name must be in the format 'Surname, FirstName' READONLY=true LABEL=User No.: WIDTH=100 MAXLENGTH=8 STYLE=background-color:##DD; CFINPUT TYPE=text NAME=UserName VALUE=#FullName# REQUIRED=yes message=Please ensire the format is 'Surname, FirstName' READONLY=false LABEL=Name: WIDTH=200 MAXLENGTH=80 STYLE=background-color:##FF; / cfformitem TYPE=html * Please ensure the format is 'Surname, FirstName' /cfformitem /CFFORMGROUP -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Web on the Piste 2008 - Early Bird Registration closes April 30th!
Got held up in customs.. apparently in NZ there is actually a Scott Barnes whom is wanted by interpol for a spree of armed robberies.. I always get pinned for this every time i go through NZ. Wish they'd hurry up and catch him. On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kai Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually think I have a picture of Scott running to the gate in Queenstown after having been paged multiple times :) My wife was pregnant with my daughter and she was due in August last year (the same time WOTP was on). I not only still attended this fine conference, had blast and made it home 3 hours before she gave birth. Never question my commitment to the community ;) Seriously, Skiing/Snowboarding, Drinking, Quality Geek-out Conversations, Great atmosphere and above all else i learnt a lot :) On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Web on the Piste 2008 will take place on August 20th 21st at the ultimate venue, Queenstown, New Zealand. Visit www.webonthepiste.com for the latest news and to register. Early Bird registration closes on April 30th. Web on the Piste 2007 was an outstanding success with 100% of the attendees surveyed saying they will be back again next year. With 21 top local and International speakers, awesome sessions, the most amazing location, great social events and some skiing to boot it really was the best conference of the year. This years conference is going to be all about Usability and Rich Internet Technologies such as Flex, Silverlight and AJAX. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: My Yearly WebDU Rant
I lost a bet, and at the time ..actually I'm boring myself thinking of the story I'm about to tell and i won't inflict that upon you folks. Anywho, 9/10 i rarely attend a conference that leaves me with deep regret - even the ones i help plan somehow turn out good/fun (yeah I'm equally surprised). On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay.. within reason then ;o) What were you even doing... actually, I don't want to know what you were doing there. It sounds more painful than I want to hear ;o) Mark On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not true.. I'm still having nightmares about once attending a Web Government Governance Conference in 2007... talk about pain.. :) On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this where I bust out the 'Do you know how much it costs me to go to cf.Objective()?' card? I honestly don't think you can put a price on what you get out of conferences - there is * always * a return on investment. Mark On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Justin Mclean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dale, I live in Sydney and I'm a freelancer/contractor. I've gone every year it has been run and paid for it with my own money (and time). It has paid for itself many times over in terms of new work found, knowledge gained, inspiration and networking. It has the highest ratio of Adobe employees, guru's and interesting people to attendees than of any of the other conferences I've been too. Basically it costs money not to go! Justin -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
Interesting, it's not a tactic i'd go for in terms of not interviewing a candidate again simply because they failed to make the cut last time. People change, experiences grow and in the end the top 5% of the developers out there aren't looking for jobs, as well they are the top 5% :) Anyway, Gruden and Daemon aren't dumb by any stretch, quite the opposite so there must be a reason and i'd probably think airing this kind of thing on a mailing list isn't going to do you an favours, as you could scare of future companies whom might be interested in looking at your resume, but fear that should they say no, you'll embarass them here. My advice is simple, keep applying and market your resume like a product. A company is about to put down a lease on you for $60k+ a year, and what are the features and benefits that you will bring to the table. Sell yourself as a great investment, not just an employee. P.S I wouldn't punish anyone for bad interview skills, or post-interview skills.. in the end these are peoples livelyhoods and looking for a job isn't the most fun in the world, stress is high, money is tight and career compass at times gets stuck on north... On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Eliseo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought Sydney was the hot spot for CF jobs, Melbourne less so and Adelaide would be near impossible. So does this mean that Sydney is slowing down on CF jobs now? Are all these CF is on the way out comments becoming true? I wonder if Daemon dabble outside of CF? Matthew, it's slowing down, and all the CF roles that are out there are ones I've applied to previously! Some clients are unfortunately very picky and know what they want... I can't really twist their arm... Then again most of them seem to be with the same places... so why apply to the same one over and over? -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
Eliseo, I apologise I misinterpreted the message. I also didn't mean it in that context but simply talking about your job hunt on a public mailing list and the various experiences you've had whilst doing it was more to the point probably not wise. I could also be wrong. Scott. On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Eliseo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, I'm not bagging out Gruden... believe me on that, they're a good company, but I find their recent reason for not proceeding unusual... but that's their decision... As to Daemon, I wouldn't dare bag them out, so I honestly have no idea how you derived that... Daemon are a great company and Geoff just informed me yesterday that they had just filled a position and won't be taking anyone on until later, so I can't do much about that. I can accept that... There are many companies out there that are fantastic, Gruden and Daemon are two such companies... and I wouldn't dare do anything to put them in disrepute... Just trying to find a company that hasn't interviewed me or that I haven't submitted to as yet is the challenge at this point ;) LOL and looking for a job isn't the most fun in the world, stress is high, money is tight and career compass at times gets stuck on north... This is very true... I hope I won't have to be in this position for very long... Eliseo CFCENTS number=2 ownership=mine / PS: Dale, when I was first interviewed some two years ago by Gruden, MX had only just come out, and I knew nothing about CFCs as it simply wasn't required in my situation back then... This time around, whereby my experience has improved now, and my knowledge of CF has increased considerably, my application didn't even go to first interview phase, so I'll let that be and move on. They appear to be quite adamant about their decision, and I won't contest that, I'll respect it and see what else there is out there :) But I will take your advice and ensure that I demonstrate my knowledge about it now. Thanks! -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Has anyone got CF8 to talk to Windows Workflow Foundation?
Has anyone got CF8 to talk to Windows Workflow Foundation successfully? if so ping me...as i am tired of headbutting my code :) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
hey all i can say is my resume owns.. i mean.. am i not in at Microsoft helping set the direction of two of our biggest flagship products since Windows :) :D hehehe. On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:05 PM, barry.b [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [at the risk of suggesting this thread might be better off on the cfjobs list instead of here ...] @Scott keep applying and market your resume like a product. yeah, that's good advice. New Improved candidate with extra VOOM! 30% less fat than last time. I must admit mine is pretty dull and boring ... funny thing is though, Scott, it was using your resume as a template... (talk about Pulp Fiction - just trying to cash in on the mesmorising capabilities it seemed to hold over employers ...) then again, only once in the last 5 jobs has been off a resume instead of word of mouth ... and two directly because of attending CFUG's ... sadly, it's still a case of who you know... and a good number of jobs out there never get advertised... (which is the trigger for this thread I guess) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Who is working for whom in Sydney, and are they looking for new people?
Hey that's actually a really good idea. No we are about to... drum roll.. upgrade the start button to be more like a fisheye dock style menu.. its original thinking on our part, and we are proud of it ;) hehehe On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey all i can say is my resume owns.. i mean.. am i not in at Microsoft helping set the direction of two of our biggest flagship products since Windows :) Don't tell me they are upgrading Notepad and MS Paint?? Awesome! :P Ryan Sabir Technical Director *p:* (02) 9274 8030 *f:* (02) 9274 8099 *m:* 0411 512 454 *w:* www.newgency.com *Newgency Pty Ltd* Web | Multimedia | eMarketing 115 Cooper St Surry Hills NSW 2010 Sydney, Australia -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Has anyone got CF8 to talk to Windows Workflow Foundation?
I think it has to do with the way CF8 consumes .NET web services.. I'm going to try and create a proxy class to pipe the commands direct via CF -- .NET -- WF and see how that plays out.. Was hopeful someone's already tried this somewhere :) if not, well.. poo to me then :) On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott what are some of your problems, feel free to ping me off list if you like. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 9015 8628 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 April 2008 11:26 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Has anyone got CF8 to talk to Windows Workflow Foundation? Has anyone got CF8 to talk to Windows Workflow Foundation successfully? if so ping me...as i am tired of headbutting my code :) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: My Yearly WebDU Rant
Barry and the others have covered this off well, but if allowed i'd like to throw my 2c into the hat. - I've gotten more out of WebDU's in the past years in terms of social networking than any conference i've attended or yet to attend (i'll be going to MAX this year, so jury is out on that one). - Presenting at WebDU is interesting as you truly feel you're at the top of your game yet you are determined not to fail and i see that in a lot of presenters of the past. - Daemon crew do their up most best to put on a good show, and it's worth just viewing the entire Adobe scene unfold etc. - You get to rant at the Adobe staff in a drunken haze, this is good for you especially Dale as i know you have a few opinions on a few issues that you should AIR (hehe see what I did then).. - People put a face to the name (ties in with the first point). If people see and interact with you, they are less likely to continue whining about you behind your back, suffice to say it can even amplify it if you look like a mung bean in person :) (get a facial and buy some new digs before you attend hehehe). - It's a hit miss on the learning. There have been sessions where I've picked up a lot and other times it can be re-hashing the same stuff we see online. That being said, not everyone looks online so different strokes for different folks. - All conferences cost, and after being in the MIX planning etc I can tell you it's money that rarely makes a killer profit. If there is $950 on the tickets, chances are you're paying the bare minimum before it starts costing the organisers personal funds. - If you're looking at this from a perspective of ROI think of it as RD funds. Not so much training, but RD. I once read some research a while ago (think it was gartner) that every company at min should have 20% of the workload dedicated to RD and 80% hands on.. as how else can you learn, innovate and progress. - Just go and stop hesitating :) it's only money and you can always make it back.. Aside from this year, I've only ever missed one of these annual events (i was beyond annoyed) and its a bitter pill to swallow for not attending this year as sadly i'll be setting up Home 2.0 in Seattle. I think this is one of the years to attend, given the new Products coming off the Adobe assembly line and from a competitive standpoint, it will be interesting to see what takes place at this event. As it's probably one of Adobe's key marketing events world-wide. On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No flame wars please, I was looking at sending an Employee up to WebDU this year, originally I wasn't going to, but Mark Mandel bought it up at the VIC UG and it got a good reception, some were going and good things were said about it. I also like the 1 day training pre conference, this would have worked well for me as there was a topic there for the person I was looking to send. And I was all ready to get budget approval for the spend etc, but the guy I wanted to send is on leave. So I could send someone else I guess, but I don't want to send someone just for the sake of it. I would like to get the opinion from people who are going or who have been, if you feel it's worth the spend time. The cost I worked out went something like this Conference $950 Workshop$495 Flights $250 Accommodation $330 Meal Expense$100 Taxis $200 - $2,325 Which if you think about it for 3 days is $96 per hour. Not counting the salary we are paying while he is there. Now my usual rant is about how they should bring it to Melbourne or other States so that more people could attend, I could send all my people? But in reality at $950 a ticket, I wouldn't it's too expensive. The actual cost of not being in melbourne from above is still $880 but the actual ticket price is very high. I think I probably missed an earlybird discount might have saved a couple hundred dollars. At the end of the day $2k isn't insignificantit, but $2k might be a great investment, I consider the $495 workshop to be great value. So what do you think, especially the non Sydney siders, is it worth it, do you have trouble justifying it's cost? Do come back thinking that was money well spent, etc. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Salaries inb CF jobs (was: Re: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?)
In Brisbane 2yrs ago, I was getting around 60-90k mark for CF Work depending on how bad of a shape the company was in and what I was there to do. That being said, I've never meet a bad coldfusion developer, only a developer with a bad attitude :). Some of the noobies I've seen been classed as that, run rings around the seniors as they are still passionate about their choice in technology, eager to learn (which leads to work being actually done instead of talked about) and in all, it's been great to see them thrive in it all. I say, when you interview folks, ask them about what they do outside of work, if they are doing home-projects in CF or whatever, hire them on the spot. Shows they are passionate about their technology and give them a jersey. $45-50k for a Junior, and 60-90k for a Senior. 90k+ for a Architect (but usually they'll come armed with to the teeth with a broad range of technologies). Scott. On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Kai Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eliseo, That's nonsense... there's CF Developers around providing the company wanting to do the hiring has enough $$ to persuade someone to come on board... Oh, let's start a new 100+ post discussion on the topic of salaries paid by CF development shops - I find that really interesting, particularly because everyone here in NZ is talking about the big brain-drain, people leaving the country for overseas work, huge skills shortage etc, and also because I'm running a company myself for a while now. Speaking from a New Zealand point of view - it's not much of a surprise, with for instance seeing advertisement on seek where international media companies up in Auckland (which is shockingly expensive to live at - even with European or US costs of living in mind) are willing to pay 50-65k NZ$ annual salary for an experienced CF/Flex developer. Seriously - you get what you ask for. Paying someone experienced, who might be even motivated enough to continue educating him/herself and is maybe even involved in whatever sort of community activities (even if it's just reading a mailing list), such a salary leads to fluctuation, staff turnover, staff feeling not valued etc. I'm not saying that it all comes down to salary, certainly not. But companies can't expect to get the super-rockstar developers for such a salary. I once read an article written by a well-known business consultant here in NZ and he was saying it wasn't worth it to pay people higher than average salaries, it wasn't worth it to give them an annual salary increase exceeding CPI etc and that his recommendation would be to always get juniors in, train them up and then - even if they leave after one year - just get another junior in to replace the person. Seriously - I think it's absolutely the wrong approach - but that's me. Yes, a company with a certain size would need a certain percentage of junior developers to work more efficiently and to ensure there are new people coming up. Any opinions - really interested in hearing other people's thoughts! Please don't flame if you disagree :) Cheers Kai Kai Koenig Director Software Solutions Architect Ventego Creative Ltd 154 Parkvale Road, Karori Wellington, New Zealand Office: +64 4 476 6781 Mobile: +64 21 928 365 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.ventego-creative.co.nz blog: http://www.bloginblack.de -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Salaries inb CF jobs (was: Re: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?)
Personal Projects can use COBOL for all that matters, the point is - does this person love to program, or do they just clock/clock out. The clock-in/clock-out folks are good, and nothing taken away from them, but are they creative enough to get the job done? that's the intent, to determine can this person do the work ahead of them. That and determine if this person day dreams a lot (which you can coach and contain/work around). On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Eliseo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I say, when you interview folks, ask them about what they do outside of work, if they are doing home-projects in CF or whatever, hire them on the spot. Funny you should say that, I have a few personal projects but more based on PERL and JavaScript, none in ColdFusion at this point in time, but the way I'm going with the progress of my main project, I may have to consider the possibility of porting the project to ColdFusion anyhow... It seems that the jobs I have managed to get have all involved this mentioning of my personal programming projects... Maybe that's what I'll need to keep doing... By the way, KC, do you still have that URL of that Seek role you mentioned, see your previous and my previous posts... -- Eliseo -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
We luv Geoff.. he's been the rock for CF Community for a decade (who here feels old at the decade remark). I think all should give it up for Geoff Bowers, as CF-life-time achievement award (seriously, he deserves a trophy or something) :) I'm fed-exing you a hug Geoff :) On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Geoff Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 9, 9:46 pm, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that Geoff, Mark and a few others are always doing presentations on Coldfusion related products. In recent years I've been talking about: Taming the Code (and other code management topics) Taming the Client (and other client management topics) Igniting Your Community (and other open source evangelism) The future of the web (crazy, eh :) (plus of course all things CF and FarCry) I attend venues such as web standards group, webJam and others more frequently than I do CFUGs. Regardless of the topic my code examples are nearly always CF related -- and why not? Just about any developer can understand CF constructs. (btw anyone wants me to turn up somewhere and talk I'll do my best to oblige). I do this because I'm interested in these sorts of things, and hope that other people might be interested too. It's certainly not because I feel any overriding need to preach ColdFusion to people -- although I do enjoy giving a good CF sermon whenever I get a chance :) I love programming in ColdFusion -- it's just so powerful. I rarely, if ever, think of the demise of CF. It always seems like a silly topic to me. If it ever happens we'll just move, albeit with much regret, to something else. But for now it's a most elegant solution, which can be turned to just about any web project both big and small. I use it because it continues to be the best choice for my company and clients. My advice? Keep building great things. Keep building them on time. Keep exceeding expectations. That may sound like a glib statement -- but its hard for management to face down a team that enjoys their tools and continues to produce working solutions. All the best, -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
*RE: Kay;s comment - compete with .NET (which has MS behind it, with far more resources than Adobe) * Actually a lot of the compete concern doesn't derive from Microsoft itself, your actual real competitors are the partners / customers of .NET technology. Microsoft market .NET in a plethora of ways, we specifically don't actively compete with Coldfusion all that much. In that in the end, folks here also are customers of ours whom buy SQL, Windows Servers etc and I state this as it's easy to demonise us as the bad guys, when in fact we have investment in the success and failures of Coldfusion (both obviously). We've also recently via Expression Web opened our tool(s) offering to support PHP, so in the end it's not a clear cut and dry - us or them, mentality. Like I stated, you have [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the boys from the US at WebDU, put together your draft plan on how to change the world, one CF step at a time and approach them. Tim is by far the most approachable Adobe Staffer I know, and if you calmly state your case(s) on how you could change the perception of community decomposition with an action plan, I'd wager he'd look into ways of supporting it. I wouldn't recommend doing this alone, you will fail. Scott. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Ricardo Russon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But as a developer, why is it my job to promote coldfusion? Short answer: it's not. Long answer: many people feel that if ColdFusion were more popular and widespread, they'd have better job security/job prospects etc. We like coding in ColdFusion so we would like this to happen. ColdFusion's success is our success. So to help ColdFusion compete with .NET (which has MS behind it, with far more resources than Adobe) and PHP/Ruby (which have large proactive open source communities behind them), many people in the CF community feel they that by helping Adobe, we are helping ourselves. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
Anyway, allow me to retort: Correct, Firstly, Tim is arriving NOT Jason/Kristen. Secondly most folks have an EXISTING relationship with Tim via previous WebDU's etc. You could furthermore use others to champion that cause, but Tim does come to mind given the prev experience in the role and the intent of such meeting. Just because a person moves around Product Teams doesn't mean he/show doesn't know the lay of the land :). Again Charlie, knock it off. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:07 AM, charlie arehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, not trying to pick a fight (or let me put it more plainly: please don't jump on me about this Scott), but I do want to offer another clarification. Scott writes, you have [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the boys from the US at WebDU, put together your draft plan on how to change the world, one CF step at a time and approach them. In case it helps anyone seeking to approach the team at WebDU, first know that Tim is no longer on the CF team, having moved to Flex. Maybe, indeed Scott knew that, but he mentioned it in the context of CF, so I'm offering this to help, not to chide. Tim was indeed the CF product manager for a few years, but that he left that role in 2006 and Jason Delmore took it. Tim then returned later that year to become CF Product Marketing manager, but he left last year for the Flex team, and Kristen Schofield took his role, which also means it's no longer just the boys. :-) /charlie *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Monday, April 14, 2008 9:09 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? *RE: Kay;s comment - compete with .NET (which has MS behind it, with far more resources than Adobe) * Actually a lot of the compete concern doesn't derive from Microsoft itself, your actual real competitors are the partners / customers of .NET technology. Microsoft market .NET in a plethora of ways, we specifically don't actively compete with Coldfusion all that much. In that in the end, folks here also are customers of ours whom buy SQL, Windows Servers etc and I state this as it's easy to demonise us as the bad guys, when in fact we have investment in the success and failures of Coldfusion (both obviously). We've also recently via Expression Web opened our tool(s) offering to support PHP, so in the end it's not a clear cut and dry - us or them, mentality. Like I stated, you have [EMAIL PROTECTED] and the boys from the US at WebDU, put together your draft plan on how to change the world, one CF step at a time and approach them. Tim is by far the most approachable Adobe Staffer I know, and if you calmly state your case(s) on how you could change the perception of community decomposition with an action plan, I'd wager he'd look into ways of supporting it. I wouldn't recommend doing this alone, you will fail. Scott. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
Sorry it was a joke ;) hehehe.. I guess i should of added a :) at the end.. defensive much. On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:08 AM, charlie arehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Knock it off? Goodness, Scott, why can't someone offer a correction to something you say without it seeming to be tantamount to a request for a duel? I'm, as always, just trying to help folks. I don't have the emotional/ego investment that it seems you think I do. Anyone else want to speak up on this? Am I coming across the wrong way? /charlie *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Monday, April 14, 2008 6:43 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Anyway, allow me to retort: Correct, Firstly, Tim is arriving NOT Jason/Kristen. Secondly most folks have an EXISTING relationship with Tim via previous WebDU's etc. You could furthermore use others to champion that cause, but Tim does come to mind given the prev experience in the role and the intent of such meeting. Just because a person moves around Product Teams doesn't mean he/show doesn't know the lay of the land :). Again Charlie, knock it off. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
bite me whomever you are detect :) On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Detect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No Charlie it's not you. Scott, why don't you knock it off? You aren't really contributing anything new here and statements like put together your draft plan on how to change the world, one CF step at a time and approach them are ridiculous. I don't give a toss about product evangelizing or coming up with strategies for Adobe. I'd like to concentrate on developing and if CF did die (which it won't) I'd move on to something else just like everyone else would. End of story. On Apr 15, 9:08 am, charlie arehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Knock it off? Goodness, Scott, why can't someone offer a correction to something you say without it seeming to be tantamount to a request for a duel? I'm, as always, just trying to help folks. I don't have the emotional/ego investment that it seems you think I do. Anyone else want to speak up on this? Am I coming across the wrong way? /charlie From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:43 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Anyway, allow me to retort: Correct, Firstly, Tim is arriving NOT Jason/Kristen. Secondly most folks have an EXISTING relationship with Tim via previous WebDU's etc. You could furthermore use others to champion that cause, but Tim does come to mind given the prev experience in the role and the intent of such meeting. Just because a person moves around Product Teams doesn't mean he/show doesn't know the lay of the land :). Again Charlie, knock it off. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
You win.. we done now? On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Detect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry I also was missing my emoticons, I actually meant: Scott, why don't you knock it off? \o/ You aren't really contributing anything new here and statements like put together your draft plan on how to change the world, one CF step at a time and approach them are ridiculous. :) I don't give a toss about product evangelizing or coming up with strategies for Adobe. :O I'd like to concentrate on developing and if CF did die (which it won't) I'd move on to something else just like everyone else would. End of story. (-_-) zzZZ On Apr 15, 10:36 am, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bite me whomever you are detect :) On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Detect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No Charlie it's not you. Scott, why don't you knock it off? You aren't really contributing anything new here and statements like put together your draft plan on how to change the world, one CF step at a time and approach them are ridiculous. I don't give a toss about product evangelizing or coming up with strategies for Adobe. I'd like to concentrate on developing and if CF did die (which it won't) I'd move on to something else just like everyone else would. End of story. On Apr 15, 9:08 am, charlie arehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Knock it off? Goodness, Scott, why can't someone offer a correction to something you say without it seeming to be tantamount to a request for a duel? I'm, as always, just trying to help folks. I don't have the emotional/ego investment that it seems you think I do. Anyone else want to speak up on this? Am I coming across the wrong way? /charlie From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 6:43 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Anyway, allow me to retort: Correct, Firstly, Tim is arriving NOT Jason/Kristen. Secondly most folks have an EXISTING relationship with Tim via previous WebDU's etc. You could furthermore use others to champion that cause, but Tim does come to mind given the prev experience in the role and the intent of such meeting. Just because a person moves around Product Teams doesn't mean he/show doesn't know the lay of the land :). Again Charlie, knock it off. -- Regards, Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
You Win :) On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:18 AM, charlie arehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh it's trailing off, all right, and honestly I don't see the point in contributing any further to the headaches which surely must be arising from this. Let me state for the record: I'm not anti-Microsoft. I'm not even anti ASP.NET http://asp.net/. I'm also not anti-Scott. I was just refuting specific statements. I leave them to stand for all to judge. This, too, is not a zero-sum debate. /charlie *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:32 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Charlie, Here we go.. I'm going to keep this onpoint as best I can as I feel it's trailing off. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
a modifier. ie: you take a dev job with a CF flavour. 1) enabler: the technology becomes the vehicle for people to do things better/faster, etc. 2) enabler: the technology is a joy to use so it gives job statisfaction doing things. 3) enabler: the technology has the platform longevity to keep you doing this for as long as you need it to. and I have no doubt that coding CF could give me both for many years to come. I support the technology to do my bit in it thriving into the future. I have no shares in Adobe so the long-term outcome for me is purely future employment. which is why I try and get people interested in CFUG's, etc - being active in ensuring the platform has logevity and providing job security by platform security, instead of being a passenger blown along with the winds... (as well as keeping skills up (1) which leads to better results (2)) but... if you were hunting for a job, would you follow the technology stack and hang the industry it's used in? Keep in mind the further you progress through the ranks, the less important specific technology becomes as you need to manage outcomes and what the technology has to do as business needs change/grow (as Gary Menzel realised - and planned for - a couple of years ago). or would you follow the path of the industry you know well and that you can apply your skills and domain knowledge into and then use the technology to enable outcomes? Idealy you'd seek one that would do both ... but as I'm finding, they're hard to come by. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
ahhh.. now this is a better conclusion to this thread.. You know on a side note and personal note, when I read internally someone berating Coldfusion (simply because at times they don't know) i catch myself evangelising it or correcting them on it. Now, do what you will with that, but I get a bit of a chuckle out of it. Nice blog posts folks.. and Kay, I am the devil. On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Gary Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've tried to resist... But I can't! So CF has got all these great features, so what are YOU yes YOU going to do about it. Just go back to day job and smile that only YOU know how great Coldfusion is. Humm. Thought about telling someone else besides your CF mates. Considered a light hearted Coldfusion shootout at the next local Barcamp or equivalent :) -- Gary Barber Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect Web: radharc.com.au blog: manwithnoblog.com barry.b wrote: I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed a great deal. and easy integration to Java code and .NET DLL's and MSExchange cfdocument cfreport cfpresentation cfmxml remoting webservices everyone knows this sure, but sometimes it gets forgotten that it's coming from/via just one vendor, not a bunch of ad-hoc libraries with iffy dependancies to worry about (or diff versions for that matter)**. One licence for the lot. year before last: I had an ASP.NET/C# http://asp.net/C# app I wanted to migrate from using .NET 1.1 to 2.0 but I couldn't - it wasn't cost effective to change it and fix the breakages. ColdFusion has the best backwards compatability - per version - of a product I've ever used. Including Windows. On Apr 14, 12:32 pm, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dammit, I wasn't going to get involved in this thread past my blog post about it ( http://kay.smoljak.com/index.php/opening-up-the-coldfusion-community/)... but now I have to speak up! On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Joel Cass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plus I really am starting to like the flexibility and features of other languages, eg. OO features of .net and java, CF has OO. CF is more OO than Java according to Sean Corfield's article in that latest FAQ-U (Vol II, Issue III, pg 7) because it has the onMissingMethod handler like SmallTalk and Ruby. the plethora of functionality in PHP (thanks to it being open source). CF has built in PDF, FTP, image handling, ExtJS grids/trees/etc, encryption, etc etc. What does PHP have that CF doesn't (apart from a whole stack of inconsistent and redundant functions)? Don't get me wrong, I like PHP and use it a lot, but CF is truly state of the art. I don't agree that it hasn't changed much, it has changed a great deal. -- Kay Smoljak business:www.cleverstarfish.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com | heapsbad.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
Robin, Domain statistics don't factor into whether or not the said product is growing or the community is growing. Owning 20 sites per client that mirror the same code base is flawed theory. You need to factor in actual server share (ie how buoyant is the ISP industry with it etc), Developer NSAT's and above all and most important of all, partner growth (whom are using it, why, where and how is it helped them increase profit margins). Deployment is evidence but it can be false positive is all ;) On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Robin Hilliard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/04/2008, at 11:04 AM, Peter Robertson wrote: Is CF holding any kind of parity in the market overall, or is some absolute growth just a default in a growing market? (I dunno, just asking). Remember the domain counts I posted a while back? That was 100% growth in .au domain names with cfm pages over the period 2004-2007 indexed by Google. ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Executive Officer [EMAIL PROTECTED] RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Robin Hilliard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Between reading this thread and responding to some rather uninformed criticism of Cairngorm over on iconara.net this is turning out to He's not misinformed, Theo has some quite unique and valid perspective on the matter. I'd encourage you to listen to his critique more and also look beyond that post to other posts his made (i've been following his blog for quite some time, and they guys the type of engineer/architect Flex should have more of). design patterns enriching frameworks can be a positive and a negative but more importantly folks need to not just focus on a destination, but also the journey it took to arrive there. be a community day. Can I just second Gary's call to get out there in the community - it's YOUR technology, YOUR career. Don't leave it up to the small business people (who seem to grasp this connection with income) and UG managers (who on any reasonable cost/benefit analysis must simply be stark, raving, bonkers). What's an evening a month - if you haven't noticed night time television these days is crap. Agreed. I've just spent a year living breathing the communities and I've got more friends, more contacts and learned more from it all. It's not a geeky experience once you break away from the agendas and simply get to know folks. Have fun with the communities and don't take things so serious is my advice to all (even visit Perth.. heheh, i must get there again before i depart to the US) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
he started it... *points*.. all is good. No children or animals were hurt in the process of making this thread, although I did stub my toe whilst trying to turn on my computer just then.. nice one Barry.. i blame you.. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: struth! I started this thread a couple of days ago to highlight the irony in a conversation with a recruiter. next thing you know incendiary bombs are being thrown from all quarters. well - just to add fuel to the fire... one interesting project I'm looking at - teaching and learning systems/distance education (leveraging my domain knowledge) ... turns out to be a .NET project... -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
Just a bit.. how embarassement.. On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 3:20 AM, Steve Onnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We all know Scott does have a tendency to ramble though -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Renando Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2008 11:36 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Hi Scott, I think you may have your threads crossed. Last time I checked, I was the one making the case for cf devers to cross polinate into other languages because I couldn't find anyone to support CF apps that come in. I think you are aiming at Charlie, the other CH-name-starting-dude. I dont' know half of what you're talking about, but it sounds technical enough where I am wanting to take credit 'cause it sounds like technical. I only know projects in, resources to manage, work out, and making the fit in between. I are manager now, I are not programmer. But if you want, I'll have a piece of you on Donky Kong. You name the place, I'll bring the mame. Chad who gets his behind kicked on the level with the bouncy spring things On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *cracks knuckles* ..oh it's on Chad, it's on like Donkey Kong! :) hehh. Adobe CE Program is as I say, Apples vs Oranges.I see firsthand more benefits in the MVP over Adobe CE and consider it a point of difference in our offering, now what does that have to do with the current thread. Simply that the existing model could be improved better, i won't stipulate exactly how as that's obviously not my job. What I am doing is trying to tease out some folks within the community whom are wanting change, to start thinking about the program, looking at what Microsoft MVP offers and even evolve it further or use it as a benchmark on what not to do, either way, start the dialogue.. I wouldn't consider having a piece of glass that says welcome to the yearly membership, t-shirt, pizzas and beer to be the end of it. Being recognised as a community leader is and should be a big deal, as these are the rockstars of your community. If you simply casually throw it out there to random names that have no story attached to them, or no visual clear definitive way to articulate whom they are and what they did to arrive at such point, then how can others look to getting insight into the value being offered by the program in question. Example: Right now there is a plane loads of MVP's from around the world, being flown into Seattle to meetup at the MVP Summit. In this summit they will have access to various Product Teams and folks from various levels. They'll get to ask the hard questions and get the hard answers, which they then take back to their respective regions and distill into what there peers have asked them to find out and so on. They are the true backbone of a community, the connectors between Corporate and Community as they can/have one on hand praised us but then immediately backhand us for not doing our jobs. Product Teams listen and do what they can so next year at the next Summit, the beatings won't continue.. Benefit Realisation. Now Chad, I like you sport, but you've got to be kidding if you assume I don't follow what Adobe does across the board. CF8 vs CF9 is not as important as where is Adobe taking its product range? More to the point, early this week they announced a bit of an executive overall, now what impact will this have and do you fully comprehend what it means for them to have David Mendels out of the picture? (could be nothing, could be something). Point is, where is this ship sailing towards and which direction. Adobe have a lot of fires on many fronts they are putting out piece by piece. Consolidation of products is obvious and a platform, true platform this time round is likely to happen, the question remains however how does Coldfusion play a role in this puzzle. FYI, I follow CF8 closely as well as CF9. I'll leave the rapid prototyping alone as that could strike a bar fight, as there's some basic truths in this conversation that would be the same as waving a red flag in front of a room of bulls.. suffice to say, make note i used the reference to Ruby on Rails and not ASP.NEThttp://asp.net/ , but i could include that as well. In fact play it safe, lets strike that remark from the record shall we :) Rather then debate blow for blow on my point, i stand by my point's and i put it to you to prove me wrong. In fact, prove them all wrong :) as if there is a problem here, you've just fixed them in one email chad, yet if there isn't well you've just strengthened the entire proposition of Coldfusion - but what if you're wrong. The point is, CF community used to be more vibrant than it is today, and not much in the technology
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
i got paid less then i was contracting, so no ;) - i joined because I saw potential in XAML and wanted to be as close to it as possible as this time i want to influence change.. now i have that chance ;) On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Matt Bourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a reason you down tools and joined bill, its called large ammounts of cash $$$ ka-ching!! M@ Sent from my iPhone On 11 Apr 2008, at 05:47, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I did get promoted and thankfully no more Evangelism. I find the Evangelism scene, political, annoying and if i have one more heated debate with the competitors over something minor and trivial, I'll retire and go paint landscapes.. My new role is Product Manager in the Rich Client Platform Team (WPF/Silverlight). Now that's out of the way. Let me share some of my learned experience around technology adoption (specifically in Australia/New Zealand), and specifically brand awareness. Right now the benefits around why Coldfusion aren't there, in that they may technically be there but the fact is there is limited marketing around the product and not just the product but also the community surrounding the product. My previous role was an Evangelist, and i bet if i asked anyone on this list what does that mean, I'd get various answers. An Evangelist role within Microsoft is simple, help folks with new emerging technology not by ramming it down their throats, but simply connecting them to people. In that, it wasn't my job to make you buy ASP.NET http://asp.net/ or adopt Silverlight, but if you showed an interest I'd connect you with some folks whom can either pay you to do the job, help you learn the technology or provide you with some overview/understanding of what the technologies we had offer could do. I'd also promote the new technology and with our team, do presos etc.. that and travel the world and attend really cool parties (but thats boring right). Evangelism is crucial to keeping technical communities alive, as it's not only a contact sport but it's one that scales quite well - if architected correctly. Find generals in the field, help them, support them, provide as much as you can to enable them to scale. Right now you folks don't have Coldfusion Generals. I mentioned at last years WebDU that Adobe should consider MVP programs or similar nature (I did myself no favours by doing this) and got laughed at, as if i was spreading some FUD around or something. MVP programs are extremely successful inside Microsoft communities, we ensure these folks are kept in the loop as much as possible and can call on the evangelists etc anytime should they need anything, some would say they are almost blue badges themselves. They also have no issue with beating us around the head should we screw up - some have and done really good job of it - we don't punish them for it, we instead fix whatever the heck we stuffed up on and apologise (should it be our fault) as to punish them would cause 20,000 times more pain for us then the original problem causes (basic math right). Some fun facts about MVP's todate: Worldwide there are more than 100 million participants in technical communities. Of these participants there are only 4,000 MVPs located across 93 countries, spanning more than 30 languages and more than 90 Microsoft technologies. There has been a 10 percent to 15 percent MVP audience growth in countries such as China, Russia and Korea Over the past few years new regions with MVPs include the Republic of Congo, Ghana, Nepal, Macedonia and Macao In recent years, a handful of MVPs have been awarded in new categories such as MSN, Xbox, Visual Studio Tools for Office, Microsoft Dynamics and Visual Studio Team System. MVPs are a diverse group that includes accountants, teachers, artists, government workers, engineers and technologists. Now, who's laughing? I'm not. It takes a lot of work to get someone into the MPV program, and just because your the most popular guy/girl on a mailing list doesn't automatically make you an MPV. It's not whom you know, it's what you know and I can say outloud, the paperwork internally to get someone on this program is an effort - but worth it in the end. My point is really raw and simple. Call it FUD, i don't care - in fact i'd prefer to keep the politics out of this one. I spent a lot of years waiting for the Coldfusion scene to pickup. I like most of you at times took the crappy jobs while the market picked up, I also waited for Macromedia to finally get some budget to market and so on.. we got told a lot of promises and fast talkings at WebDU/MXDU's of past and yet nothing much has occurred. Year after year the Coldfusion question would come up, same or similiar responses would pacify us for only so long... eg: Remember Suncorp high-fives? Guess how many CF developers are left - over to you Darren. I raise this point simply to say
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
Sean's a top bloke, and i wouldn't bare any grudges or blame his way. I'm sure he fought a lot untold / unsaid battles within the belly of the beast (just like I and others do inside Microsoft silently to the outside world - what you think it's all roses inside the firewall?). I also wouldn't of thought he was the man to talk to in this regard, but anyway. I think at WebDU, you have your moment with Adobe, as a community decide what action items you want from them, calmly put forward your requirements and needs (as a collective audience) and make sure you get commitment / definitive dates. Don't settle for we're looking into that.. (i know our audiences crucify me the moment i attemp that little question dodge / answer on serious questions) Scott. I think this the first time ever you've agreed with me Andrew.. you have no idea how nervous i feel now.. almost naked like vulnerable. On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:13 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know Scott… We have had our debates over time, and at the end of the day. I can't even raise a finger to disagree with you. Your last few posts have been well put, and for someone who technically is the opposition but I long time poster here has seen and done everything that most of us has. The trials and tribulations of Coldfusion will more than likely as Chad said, be debated again 2 years down the track. I got very heated with Sean Corfield for the reasons that we are talking about here. The attitude was that the sales look good and that was all they cared about, but the point that got lost is that the jobs slowly disappeared and as I said to Sean if the sales are good then why aren't developer numbers increasing, rather than decreasing? I got irate with Sean, because even though I respect his knowledge and who he is. I lost respect for him at the time because he wasn't looking at the bigger picture. That was 5 years ago, and now it is being discussed again. Scott, I must admit I never thought of an MVP style program for adobe but it would be rather good to adopt… Well it would, I could be subject to more applications by the company that I currently don't use now, nor am I aware that they offer. But I don't need to preach that to you Scott. As for promoting the product, we as a developer can go so far. The rest is up to the company, and if there is no support from the company then we as a developer have to do what is right for ourselves. And if that means moving to .Net or Java then so be it, I must admit I love .Net and rather find Java a pain in the rear end. But I am forced to use Java in my job now, and there is nothing more that Adobe can do about that. If the business model was different, and the engine was open sourced it might have been a different story. (Sorry to bring that up again) But for those of you who don't know my boss was a Coldfusion developer, but due to the lack of good developers he looked past that and looked at the money offerings in work from elsewhere. That is the reality of our company, he would have continued with Coldfusion but not at its cost and lack of foreseeable future of support of our products. For web design, Coldfusion will always be seen as the niche application that does everything but costs your first born. Anyway Scott, from me I wish you all the best. I miss our debatesJ Andrew Scott *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 11 April 2008 2:48 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Yes, I did get promoted and thankfully no more Evangelism. I find the Evangelism scene, political, annoying and if i have one more heated debate with the competitors over something minor and trivial, I'll retire and go paint landscapes.. My new role is Product Manager in the Rich Client Platform Team (WPF/Silverlight). Now that's out of the way. Let me share some of my learned experience around technology adoption (specifically in Australia/New Zealand), and specifically brand awareness. Right now the benefits around why Coldfusion aren't there, in that they may technically be there but the fact is there is limited marketing around the product and not just the product but also the community surrounding the product. My previous role was an Evangelist, and i bet if i asked anyone on this list what does that mean, I'd get various answers. An Evangelist role within Microsoft is simple, help folks with new emerging technology not by ramming it down their throats, but simply connecting them to people. In that, it wasn't my job to make you buy ASP.NET http://asp.net/ or adopt Silverlight, but if you showed an interest I'd connect you with some folks whom can either pay you to do the job, help you learn the technology or provide you with some overview/understanding of what
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
around the brand/company. Folks you looked up to and respected because they knew xyz feature better than any and would drop what they were doing to educate you on it. Anyway, enough my nostalgia, fact is there is a lot of weaknesses in Coldfusion right now and seeing a lot jobs for CF is one thing, seeing a lot of the same jobs a month later is equally as bad as not seeing jobs for Coldfusion. There's a distinction in quality vs quantity there. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 8:09 AM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No offence Peter Charlie, But you are both non Australians, and here in Australia the job market is nonexistent and has been that way for 5 years. The point I made to Sean was simple, if the sales of Coldfusion is stronger than ever before. Why are the jobs for Coldfusion not increasing? And since that discussion nothing has changed. The perception is still the same, now whether we get out there more and promote the product is not the issue. But whether Adobe get out there and help us out more on this issue as well. But till there is a market shift in more jobs, this could be discussed for the next 5 years and that's when I want to see more jobs for Coldfusion developers. But right now what incentive is a prospective Coldfusion developer have if there is no job for him/her to go too? Same words, same argument only 5 years later. Andrew Scott *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *charlie arehart *Sent:* Saturday, 12 April 2008 3:19 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Good on ya, Pete. :-) And good point about how more may be being done than is recognized. We clearly have a large hill to climb, and it may seem like we're making no progress. Good to point out that there are indeed some efforts underway. /charlie *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Peter Bell *Sent:* Friday, April 11, 2008 1:11 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? And as mentioned when this came up on another list recently, I think people do evangelize outside the community. In the last year I presented at ooPSLA '07 in Montreal, the Domain Specific Modeling Forum, the British Computer Society Software Practices Advancement group and Code Generation 2007. In each case there are some pretty influential developers and in each case I mention the language I use and why I choose it over Python, PHP, Ruby, C# or Java. Of course, the thing about evangelizing outside of the community is that nobody within the community knows when it's being done! Also Dan Wilson is doing great stuff on DZone and Kay S on SitePoint getting the ColdFusion word out, so it's getting there . . . Best Wishes, Peter -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
*rolls eyes*.. yes that's right, we're so afraid that I secretly joined this list 9+ years ago, waited out my time for this point to seize the day. Bill called me last night and stated Scott, CF is likely to make a comeback, and it's keeping me up at night.. i really need your help on this one pal, can you dig in there, can you do the flip now.. as this is your time, do this and I'll think about promoting you to the next level as by crikey if we can get Kevin switched over to .NET, well everything will fall into place. I mean, how does one make such an ignorant remark and feel good about themselves at the same time? I've never hated a brand, I've been annoyed or ticked off by a brand but never hated a single brand. Ignorance continues to flourish. Fact is, I gave some basic truths. If it annoys you fine, if you think retribution is to weigh in on the cliche windows is dead argument(s) or attack yet another Microsoft employee, knock yourself out, by all means if that's your answer do so. It still hasn't fixed your initial problem, and attacking or whining about Microsoft or my approach is just a waste of email - i really couldn't care :) (typing this on my weekend may i add) Meanwhile friends i have in the CF local scene, and there are a lot of them, have moved onto other languages (not all .NET? does that mean i should break ties with them now? i mean isn't that a rule or something?) and have unsubscribe from this list - not because of topics like this, but because of ignorant stupidity shown by folks like Kevin. Stop the madness now, you're smarter and better than that. Like i said, you win no points for blind faith in technology today, you gain more points for experience in competing technologies. The old days are gone, live in the now... Preacher out. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I DO fully agree with that. Microsoft has ALWAYS done everything possible to crush any potential competition. Im sorry to say, This thread is full of BS. CF is the sleeping giant here. And it scares Microsoft just enough to send their preachers out. On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:18 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I don't fully agree with that. *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *MrBuzzy *Sent:* Saturday, 12 April 2008 11:06 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? This is exactly what I hate about Microsoft. They blind you with noise, give you a whole lot of crap you don't need. Using ASP.net and such is a massive assumption that the general populous will continue to use Windows. There's a few people at Gartner saying Windows is dead :) Scott you do make some good points, however 'going the microsoft way' is not the solution for everything (which generally is what microsoft people will evangelize, ie; what you're indirectly doing now). On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The difference between an MVP and Adobe CE is folks are measured yearly on their efforts. For example, if you make MVP this year because you did an outstanding job last year (and made the criteria that the independent body agreed upon) it doesn't automatically mean you'll get it next year if you decide to get bored with the idea. It's apples for oranges really, but the point I was trying to make is whom are your/our (still consider myself a cfaussie) leaders, what recognition do they get and above all what level of support? (ie Barry Beattie comes to mind a lot when I think of this). I could really go to town on this but I think I'm overstepping my boundaries as be clear, I'm Microsoft and can't speak my mind on this one topic. Suffice to say the following: - *There is lack of maturity in the local CF ranks.* Most of the ranking officers/generals in ANZ are either in management roles or in other languages (Java, .NET etc). This is really bad, as whom are mentoring the Juniors? and more importantly what are they teaching them? - *There is lack of marketing spend.* This doesn't have to be billboards, events, rally points if you will are marketing amongst other means. We had really small budget to market Silverlight with last year, we made it scale and that product was zero install in January last year. - *There is lack of diversity.* Folks, we are never one brand and i encourage you all to consider going beyond your comfort zones. There is a large IT world out there whom will not award you points for being 100% loyal to one brand. Allow yourself to be around other communities whom may not like your technology preferences, but i guarantee you, they will respect you as professional for looking at theres. Diversity is key, as it forms
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg01572.html All answers to your solutions are found within Google/Live Search.. embrace this new found knowledge and go conquer the world! :) hehe On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:19 AM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I removed the beta update 1, on my Vista 64bit which was working fine. Now downloaded the new 64Bit release, and ran it installed with no errors, go to /cfide/administrator and get *HTTP Error 500.0 - Internal Server Error* *Description:* The page cannot be displayed because an internal server error has occurred. *Error Code:* 0x800700c1 *Notification:* ExecuteRequestHandler *Module:* IsapiModule *Requested URL:* http://127.0.0.1:80/CFIDE/administrator/index.cfmhttp://127.0.0.1/CFIDE/administrator/index.cfm *Physical Path:* C:\inetpub\wwwroot\CFIDE\administrator\index.cfm *Logon User:* Anonymous *Logon Method:* Anonymous *Handler:* AboMapperCustom-116337 Now I decided to remove the connectors, and reinstall them the first problem I got was that it can't stop the service and I have to do it. Ok fair enough. Now I am reinstalling the connectors and get a message saying the web server needs to be restarted, standard message many times seen before. Except I get this Version0.0 installed Supported version are 4.x, 5.x, 6.x, 7.x WTF? -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista
my humble apologies ;) i missed the beta context. It shouldn't make a difference but... whom knows. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:56 AM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott… Did you miss the point of me saying that I had the Beta installed and working fine? And did you miss that I downloaded nte new 64bit release? And I thought you we had been on a role and you go and do that to meJ For everyone else's info, I can install the beta 64bit Coldfusion release fine and it runs. The official release WTF happened? *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Saturday, 12 April 2008 11:43 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg01572.html All answers to your solutions are found within Google/Live Search.. embrace this new found knowledge and go conquer the world! :) hehe On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:19 AM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I removed the beta update 1, on my Vista 64bit which was working fine. Now downloaded the new 64Bit release, and ran it installed with no errors, go to /cfide/administrator and get *HTTP Error 500.0 - Internal Server Error* *Description:* The page cannot be displayed because an internal server error has occurred. *Error Code:* 0x800700c1 *Notification:* ExecuteRequestHandler *Module:* IsapiModule *Requested URL:* http://127.0.0.1:80/CFIDE/administrator/index.cfmhttp://127.0.0.1/CFIDE/administrator/index.cfm *Physical Path:* C:\inetpub\wwwroot\CFIDE\administrator\index.cfm *Logon User:* Anonymous *Logon Method:* Anonymous *Handler:* AboMapperCustom-116337 Now I decided to remove the connectors, and reinstall them the first problem I got was that it can't stop the service and I have to do it. Ok fair enough. Now I am reinstalling the connectors and get a message saying the web server needs to be restarted, standard message many times seen before. Except I get this Version0.0 installed Supported version are 4.x, 5.x, 6.x, 7.x WTF? br -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
Kevin, If you're going to make a stand, then do so with commitment. Firstly, MrBuzzy stated he hated Microsoft blah blah, to which Andrew stated he disagreed with what was stated which you then followed with - in your own words - Well, I *DO* fully agree with that. You even made a point of using capital letters with the DO part. Now your saying you don't hate Microsoft? as i recall .NET = Microsoft and I'm pretty sure we base a lot of decisions around .NET ;). It wasn't emotional, it was me be sarcastic (with a smile) and shaking my head at how stupidity continues to flourish. endless cycle of points could be made here, the fact is, I've given my opinion and if outlined what I think are weak points in the reasoning behind why locally there is likely to be a decline in future. You can put stock in a Microsoft conspiracy theory, which i find hilarious or you can weigh it up, make some decisions, work collectively at fixing it and move forward. either way, i get my pay cheque and won't get promoted as my metrics for my role don't even have Coldfusion or ASP.NET adoption on it. How do you like them apples :) (heh, Apple.. get it..) Note: none of this anything to do with the original thread today.. amazing how threads evolve in forums... On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm sensitive guy. Personally, I love .NET, and develop quite extensively on it. I also love JAVA, PHP, ROR.. and many others. I also know bashing any single one of these languages is total BS. Make sure to call Bill and tell him I already dev in .NET and I am an avid MS user. This does seem a bit emotional over a simple comment. On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *rolls eyes*.. yes that's right, we're so afraid that I secretly joined this list 9+ years ago, waited out my time for this point to seize the day. Bill called me last night and stated Scott, CF is likely to make a comeback, and it's keeping me up at night.. i really need your help on this one pal, can you dig in there, can you do the flip now.. as this is your time, do this and I'll think about promoting you to the next level as by crikey if we can get Kevin switched over to .NET, well everything will fall into place. I mean, how does one make such an ignorant remark and feel good about themselves at the same time? I've never hated a brand, I've been annoyed or ticked off by a brand but never hated a single brand. Ignorance continues to flourish. Fact is, I gave some basic truths. If it annoys you fine, if you think retribution is to weigh in on the cliche windows is dead argument(s) or attack yet another Microsoft employee, knock yourself out, by all means if that's your answer do so. It still hasn't fixed your initial problem, and attacking or whining about Microsoft or my approach is just a waste of email - i really couldn't care :) (typing this on my weekend may i add) Meanwhile friends i have in the CF local scene, and there are a lot of them, have moved onto other languages (not all .NET? does that mean i should break ties with them now? i mean isn't that a rule or something?) and have unsubscribe from this list - not because of topics like this, but because of ignorant stupidity shown by folks like Kevin. Stop the madness now, you're smarter and better than that. Like i said, you win no points for blind faith in technology today, you gain more points for experience in competing technologies. The old days are gone, live in the now... Preacher out. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I DO fully agree with that. Microsoft has ALWAYS done everything possible to crush any potential competition. Im sorry to say, This thread is full of BS. CF is the sleeping giant here. And it scares Microsoft just enough to send their preachers out. On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:18 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I don't fully agree with that. *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *MrBuzzy *Sent:* Saturday, 12 April 2008 11:06 AM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? This is exactly what I hate about Microsoft. They blind you with noise, give you a whole lot of crap you don't need. Using ASP.net and such is a massive assumption that the general populous will continue to use Windows. There's a few people at Gartner saying Windows is dead :) Scott you do make some good points, however 'going the microsoft way' is not the solution for everything (which generally is what microsoft people will evangelize, ie; what you're indirectly doing now). On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista
Well this maybe a after the fact tip, but in future i'd recommend you install beta products on virtual machines. In the event an RTM/RTW occurs you can swap out your code base on a fresh install. Thus removing the headache your in now ;) On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:10 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No it shouldn't but it does for some unknown reason… *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Saturday, 12 April 2008 12:02 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 8U1 and Vista my humble apologies ;) i missed the beta context. It shouldn't make a difference but... whom knows. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 11:56 AM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott… Did you miss the point of me saying that I had the Beta installed and working fine? And did you miss that I downloaded nte new 64bit release? And I thought you we had been on a role and you go and do that to meJ For everyone else's info, I can install the beta 64bit Coldfusion release fine and it runs. The official release WTF happened? -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
shhh.. if you let them in on the secret they'll think about putting tinfoil hats on and then i can't read their minds from HQ.. :) On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:27 PM, MrBuzzy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's subliminal :O On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Kai Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that's not what Scott is doing here at the moment (not this time, LOL :) -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
, lighthouse wins). FYI, i recommend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tipping_Point In my experience, FUD is 3 letters layed down on the table, when one can't find reasons why to like or dislike something. On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:53 PM, charlie arehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm really not looking to pick a fight, but folks keep praising the points Scott made, yet I found quite a few that I'd contend: The difference between an MVP and Adobe CE is folks are measured yearly on their efforts. For example, if you make MVP this year because you did an outstanding job last year (and made the criteria that the independent body agreed upon) it doesn't automatically mean you'll get it next year if you decide to get bored with the idea. That's the way the Adobe program works, too. No Adobe CE popes for life. :-) whom are your/our (still consider myself a cfaussie) leaders, what recognition do they get and above all what level of support? Adobe CEs do get recognition, both by their acceptance into the program, and promotion of them as such by Adobe, themselves, and others. As for levels of support, they really get quite a lot, as do UG managers, and these benefits come both from Adobe and 3rd parties who have teamed with Adobe to offer them things, both that make them more capable and that simply give them a form of repayment for their efforts. where do you see Coldfusion heading in 3-5 years? not just the server itself but the surrounding ecosystem. Scott, here's where we have to wonder how much you're still following CF closely. CF8 has been an amazing release, and plans for CF9 are already underway. As for the surrounding ecosystem, Adobe have made it clear that CF is at a big part of the integration story for Flex, Blaze, AIR, and other leading technologies. Do those get the majority of play? Sure. Is CF always mentioned? No, not for now. They also want to reach developers using other backends, but CF is always going to be at the center of easy integration from those client apps to the back end. There is lack of rapid prototyping. Um, really? I guess it depends on what one considers to be rapid prototyping, but I think many would say that CF is quite good at this. Sure, there are many ways to look at this topic, and it would be easy to trot out how much more VS provides to a .Net developer than CFEclipse, DW, or HS/CF Studio, but one may argue that CFML's very ease of use and high-level nature allows folks to develop quickly even without a fully-evolved IDE. There is lack of community spirit. Well, your points are well taken, but I don't think most would agree that they equate to your conclusion. Indeed, the CF community has long (and yes, recently) been regarded highly for its community spirit. I see why some may feel that your statements smacked a bit of FUD, but we have to recognize the position you're in. You could argue (and indeed are) that we are doing the same. This discussion is walking a fine line between a circle jerk and a bar fight, and we need to avoid it degrading into either. Again, I'm not looking to pick a fight. Just offering some contrary thought. /charlie *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, April 11, 2008 8:42 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? The difference between an MVP and Adobe CE is folks are measured yearly on their efforts. For example, if you make MVP this year because you did an outstanding job last year (and made the criteria that the independent body agreed upon) it doesn't automatically mean you'll get it next year if you decide to get bored with the idea. It's apples for oranges really, but the point I was trying to make is whom are your/our (still consider myself a cfaussie) leaders, what recognition do they get and above all what level of support? (ie Barry Beattie comes to mind a lot when I think of this). I could really go to town on this but I think I'm overstepping my boundaries as be clear, I'm Microsoft and can't speak my mind on this one topic. Suffice to say the following: · *There is lack of maturity in the local CF ranks.* Most of the ranking officers/generals in ANZ are either in management roles or in other languages (Java, .NET etc). This is really bad, as whom are mentoring the Juniors? and more importantly what are they teaching them? · *There is lack of marketing spend.* This doesn't have to be billboards, events, rally points if you will are marketing amongst other means. We had really small budget to market Silverlight with last year, we made it scale and that product was zero install in January last year. · *There is lack of diversity.* Folks, we are never one brand and i encourage you all to consider going beyond your comfort zones
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
, year on year we attend, we really get low value out of attending. We'd rather focus our energy on events like WD07, BarCamps etc as these folks are not only agnostic but open to technology discussion, less about brand politics. - Put more pressure on Adobe to get the budgets or better programs in place. I'm amazed that we in Australia have 13 Evangelists whom are kept busy 24/7 and Adobe has 0. One Evangelist for APAC? - how about you have your own local Adobe celeb to lead you instead of waiting for the US guys to fly out once a year? If you think this thread is doing my employer any favours, think otherwise and i'm sure i'll get some feedback for it (Today is my last official day as Evangelist so i have a small amount of free reign here). I leave this as simply a parting gift to you folks before I head over to the US. I loved working in the Coldfusion space for many years, despite our petty email squabbles and thread wars - Taco Fleur, you're still cool - there have been some real quality friendships made out of this community (actually most of my best friends are Coldfusion Devs from past) I'd hate to see that die off, but perception = reality and remember that. You can sit there and take it or whine about Microsoft all you like, but we didn't create this problem and more importantly there was a reason why i simply down tools and went over to Microsoft not knowing a lick of .NET and it wasn't to get one up on the Adobe/Macromedia crew. That being said, my inbox is open to any whom wish to adopt .NET :) On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 8:56 PM, CyberAngel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually he is now a product manager for Silverlight….. No more evangelism for Scott J *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *M@ Bourke *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 April 2008 8:03 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Just in case anyone is new to the list, Scott is a .net product evangelist at Microsoft. of cos he is most likely unbiased and posted his last comment via an iPhone :P -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too?
I'll be upfront and honest and you can take this however you want to.. but.. I've in the past been seeing a healthy amount of requests on folks wanting: - How do I migrate from CF to ASP.NET - How do I retrain CF folks to ASP.NET - Barnesy, hook me up with some .NET jobs.. (thus my butt kicking a while back for daring to ask whom wanted help with this?) These are from customers / friends in the CF biz, does this mean CF Is doomed? no (doubtful).. but its what I'm seeing...I think the skill shortage in Australia is what's driving this perception, my advice is to get back out there, hit the pavements and start stimulating the CF Community again. I state this as I think a large bulk of folks have moved onto Flex development or migrated to another language (Java, .NET, Ruby and PHP are big in Australia). - Scott. On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:14 PM, MrBuzzy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's the recruiters that are 'on the way out' of the CF world ;) I mean, with such a good (but small) community here and OS maybe recruiters don't add as much value as they do for the Java or .Net market. Plus, does a recruiter really know how to recognise a good CF developer? I'm not sure. On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patrick, It still will not happen. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 9015 8628 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Patrick McGLYNN *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 April 2008 4:30 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: recruters say CF on the way out? ... FFS! not FUD from them too? Andrew, I not sure if anyone here has tried it yet but where you say: But that is the reality, I doubt we will ever look for a Coldfusion developer to come on board. Because of the fact we are Java primarily, with a few clients still being maintained in CF. Only because we have gone enterprise, and the tools we use can't be fitted into Coldfusion in its current shape. I say what about BPEL (Business Process Execution Language)? It is designed just for this purpose, that is plugging in external services, sometimes legacy. Check this link out [online] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/livecycle/articles/bpel4people_overview.html One of the points at the bottom of the page Portability - The ability to take design-time artifacts created in one vendor's environment and use them in another vendor's environment. I think that coldfusion is getting ready for a take of with agile development in mind, although people do need to be trained with the knowledge of the tool at Universities. But keeping in mind coldfusion is just an abstraction of Java which is taught. Cheers Patrick McGLYNN --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: [Ann-Syd] Tonight: Rain or Shine: RIA Showcase
Just caught this and sorry I missed it :( hope it went well! and is there any feedback? I'm meeting with Brian Goldfarb on thursday in Seattle so anything anyone wants me to take to the hill' so to speak :) - Scott Barnes Microsoft On Feb 4, 2008 12:33 PM, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The venue is high and dry and has air conditioning On Feb 1, 2008 4:42 PM, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Find out what real applications are being done with Flex. Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group February Meeting Date: Mon 4th February Details RSVP: http://sydneyflashdevfeb2008meeting.eventbrite.com Chris On Jan 29, 2008 11:46 AM, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Monday, 4th Feb at 6pm for 6:30 start. A walk through of Infomedia's Rich Internet Application www.microcatmarket.com an online electronic parts catalog and ordering between the trade repairer's workshop and their parts-supplying dealer. The latest version www.autopartsbridge.com written last year in Flex 2 has desktop integration via C++ ActiveX control / XPI prior to the release of AIR, this has proven to be a nice browser based app with the full integration with the end users desktop. Adobe + Microsoft Development; Infomedia being Microsoft development house, many MS Devs were sceptical about the ability to create Enterprise class applications in a 'banner ad platform'. I will dispel the assumptions will show how Adobe + MS Development Environment integrates seamlessly with the Visual Studio Team System. Integration includes MS Team foundation Server for Source Control, Automated builds using MSbuild and running FlexUNIT, Integrated Project and Task management with MS Project and MS EXCEL. All in all creating a superior RIA in less time with less resources and less costs than a buggy bloated slow memory hogging C Sharp Rich Client. :p Have you been wondering about using MS Silverlight or Adobe Flex for your RIA? So have we (of course I have to), I talked to Brian Goldfarb MS Group Program Manager for UX Tools and Platform. I'll tell you what we discussed at the meeting. Presenters BIO; Clinton Ennis has been Infomedia's lead RIA Developer and Architect for 9 years first writing in ASP classic then AJAX Flex 1.5 now Flex 2.0 Tatsu Clarke was Infomedia's lead RIA Developer for 2 years first writing in Flex 1.5 now Flex 2.0 but now works for the CBA doing Flex 3.0. Infomedia's electronic parts catalogues have become the global standard for the automotive industry, used by more than 50,000 dealers in over 160 countries and 30 languages. Infomedia is an Australian publicly listed company(ASX) with headquarters in Sydney and support centres in Australia, Europe, Japan, Latin America and North America. www.infomedia.com.au We'll be meeting at a venue courtesy of Rocketboots. Details and registration on http://sydneyflashdevfeb2008meeting.eventbrite.com -- Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group m: 0415 469 095 www.flashdev.org.au Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group February Meeting Date: Mon 4th February Details RSVP: http://sydneyflashdevfeb2008meeting.eventbrite.com -- Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group m: 0415 469 095 www.flashdev.org.au Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group February Meeting Date: Mon 4th February Details RSVP: http://sydneyflashdevfeb2008meeting.eventbrite.com -- Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group m: 0415 469 095 www.flashdev.org.au Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group February Meeting Date: Mon 4th February Details RSVP: http://sydneyflashdevfeb2008meeting.eventbrite.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: blogging for fun and profit (BlogCFC Vs Wordpress)
as it will help you distil your idea for a post into a structured flow (post-it note your articles?) I'd love to see more CFAussie peeps blog, as I'm sure there are many insights / lessons you could share. P.S I just redesigned my blog tonight - http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog *--* *Scott Barnes * (RIA Evangelist) Microsoft Pty http://www.microsoft.com/australia | *New!* *The RIA Times:* http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | *Office:* +61 (2) 88179139 | *Mobile:* 0439-072-184 *Twitter*: twitter.com/mossyblog ** * **The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -** **George Bernard Shaw*** --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap
Take a vote then, help the Bowers out.. as hey may get a tad busy planning a little event we like to call WebDU 08... I vote we don't put Andrew Scott in charge but we do consider Barry Beattie ;) hehehe (You know I have love for Andrew.. sending a big *hugs* your way Andrew). On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 AM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: indeed. I remember my first foray into this tech listserv thing nearly 10 years ago with Charles Carrol's LearnASP.com. He moderated every single message. Drove him nuts. On Jan 3, 2008 3:46 AM, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Multiple moderators. :) On Jan 2, 2008 4:30 AM, Geoff Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 12:43 pm, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is possible for the list owner to delete these posts and to ban the users. It' also possible for the list owner to set the list so that new memberships are moderated. As a general note to everyone on this topic. The list owner (aka me) regularly reviews the spam posts and reports, removes, and bans the authors. But heh I take a holiday every now and then ;) -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdinowitz) President: House of Fusion(http://www.houseoffusion.com) Publisher: Fusion Authority( http://www.fusionauthority.com) Adobe Community Expert / Advanced Certified ColdFusion Professional -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CF5 invoking .NET 2.0 webservices
Ok. The mission you are about to undertake Jeremy is evil..in it's purist form.. kidding. Really its not as scary as one would believe, it's a case of making sure you are sending the right metadata to connect initially and then be mindful of the fact that certain types have issues around translating accross the SOAP divide. eg: Array of Strings has issues in how Java vs .NET agree (ahh to have a universal format would be nice.. REST vs SOAP discussion apply here). It's hard to give you an accurate forecast on your pain without seeing the bits, but I will partially agree that you're essentially putting your thumb on the desk, hitting it with a hammer and that's less likely to cause you pain then this mission put forward. It maybe a Coffee in the CBD chat, ping me offline and we can have lunch and tell each other tall stories about whether OSX is better than Vista (my money is on BeOS making a strong comeback.. mark my words, she's the dark horse...) --- Scott Barnes Your Friendly RIA Evangelist Microsoft. On Dec 29, 2007 9:31 PM, Mark Ireland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh Yeah. I think they wish they had created a large java app. They really think they could do a better job of coding a server application language. -- Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:03:37 +1100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF5 invoking .NET 2.0 webservices Interesting point about Java developers. I have come across that more than once where Java developers try their best to kill off ColdFusio. Why? Are they afraid that they will be shown up? Anyone else found that. Simon On 30/11/2007, *Barry Beattie* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and life may not be that simple... ... I know a place that has enterprise-wide CF enterprise licenses for CF7 ... and yet some poor sods there were still working on CF5 systems. sometimes it comes down to the migration process, the QA ... maybe even the politics from a .NET or Java group within the enterprise trying to kill off their CF rivals ... On Nov 30, 2007 2:05 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on Brett, Never let the details get in the way of a good post ;) Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Brett Payne-Rhodes Sent: Friday, 30 November 2007 2:37 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF5 invoking .NET 2.0 webservices I don't think you can assume that it is a $600 upgrade. Could be enterprise. Could be clustered. And I'm not even sure there is an upgrade from CF5 to CF8? That isn't to say that your point isn't a valid one. What IS the cost of the upgrade compared to the $s spent trying to make it work with what could now be construed as a hack? B) Dale Fraser wrote: How much time and $ are you wasting to save yourself a $600 upgrade. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Scott Sent: Friday, 30 November 2007 2:05 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF5 invoking .NET 2.0 webservices Coldfusion 5, uses com objects. Visual Studio can create com objects a pain in the arse, with a lot interop etc., but it can be done. I am sure Scott Barnes will pop in soon enough, and provide some more insight. Or, you could upgrade to CF8 and have it all built in for you:-) Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Sent: Friday, 30 November 2007 1:05 PM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF5 invoking .NET 2.0 webservices Yeah I had thought of that already its just so messy that I don't want to make any more of a mess from what already is there. I have another solution which I will use instead...i.e. .NET Thanks again. Jeremy br -- Join Lavalife for free. What are you waiting for?http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288_t=764581033_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07_m=EXT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap
You had me at hello.. I'm sure if Geoff hates the idea, we'll know soon enough but its merely a suggestion so hold back the tears ;) besides the way I see it is Geoff spends less time wondering if there is spam vs signal and more in TeamFortress 2.. well he just may stop seeing [te] Skittlez is dominating FullAsAGoog :) Oooh yeah Bowers, i went there... On Jan 4, 2008 11:52 AM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm glad you still have your sense of humour, Scott... there are more similarities between me and Mr A.Scott than differences... but this isn't our call. Don't forget it was Geoff that got off his backside years ago, put his hand in his pocket and started up the origional CFAussie (and the 'Goog, for that matter). It's his call and (IMHO) something we should be mindful of. and as a reminder, it's not just this community event called WebDU that Geoff pours energy into... don't forget about a little bit of software called FarCry (new version being developed as we speek)... yet another community thing... On Jan 4, 2008 11:35 AM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a vote then, help the Bowers out.. as hey may get a tad busy planning a little event we like to call WebDU 08... I vote we don't put Andrew Scott in charge but we do consider Barry Beattie ;) hehehe (You know I have love for Andrew.. sending a big *hugs* your way Andrew). On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 AM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: indeed. I remember my first foray into this tech listserv thing nearly 10 years ago with Charles Carrol's LearnASP.com. He moderated every single message. Drove him nuts. On Jan 3, 2008 3:46 AM, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Multiple moderators. :) On Jan 2, 2008 4:30 AM, Geoff Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 12:43 pm, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is possible for the list owner to delete these posts and to ban the users. It' also possible for the list owner to set the list so that new memberships are moderated. As a general note to everyone on this topic. The list owner (aka me) regularly reviews the spam posts and reports, removes, and bans the authors. But heh I take a holiday every now and then ;) -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdinowitz) President: House of Fusion( http://www.houseoffusion.com) Publisher: Fusion Authority( http://www.fusionauthority.com) Adobe Community Expert / Advanced Certified ColdFusion Professional -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Merry Xmas to you all
Happy Festivus... I have my aluminium pole decorated in tinsel up for sale should any want it. On Dec 21, 2007 4:22 PM, Peter Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Merry Christmas to everyone on the list. Looking forward to enjoy my first Christmas on the beach down under! Best Wishes, Peter On 12/21/07 1:11 AM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Merry Christmas to all the cfaussie and VIC UG crew, it was a good year. See you next year. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Taco Fleur *Sent:* Friday, 21 December 2007 4:04 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: Merry Xmas to you all *Same here! May you all have an excellent xmas and happy new year! * Don't forget to donate! ;-) Surf Lifesavers is a good cause. *please pass on to anyone you know *We're going to hop on the push bike this year and do a full 330 K from Eatons Hill to Maryborough! We're raising dough through the following link for *surf lifesavers *http://australian-search-engine.blogspot.com/ http://australian-search-engine.blogspot.com/http://australian-search-engine.blogspot.com/ On 12/21/07, *Andrew Scott* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well for those who are still around. Merry Xmas to you all and a happy new year. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au http://www.aegeon.com.au/ http://www.aegeon.com.au/ Phone: +613 9015 8628 Mobile: 0404 998 273 www.clickfind.com.au http://www.clickfind.com.auhttp://www.clickfind.com.au/ -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap
Ok.. See now I went smack talked Geoff and he schooled me in-game just 20mins ago: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2165299276size=o I stand corrected sir.. well played.. On Jan 4, 2008 12:02 PM, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Happy New Year to you too ScottJ Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 9015 8628 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 4 January 2008 12:36 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap Take a vote then, help the Bowers out.. as hey may get a tad busy planning a little event we like to call WebDU 08... I vote we don't put Andrew Scott in charge but we do consider Barry Beattie ;) hehehe (You know I have love for Andrew.. sending a big *hugs* your way Andrew). On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 AM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: indeed. I remember my first foray into this tech listserv thing nearly 10 years ago with Charles Carrol's LearnASP.com. He moderated every single message. Drove him nuts. On Jan 3, 2008 3:46 AM, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Multiple moderators. :) On Jan 2, 2008 4:30 AM, Geoff Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 12:43 pm, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is possible for the list owner to delete these posts and to ban the users. It' also possible for the list owner to set the list so that new memberships are moderated. As a general note to everyone on this topic. The list owner (aka me) regularly reviews the spam posts and reports, removes, and bans the authors. But heh I take a holiday every now and then ;) -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdinowitz) President: House of Fusion( http://www.houseoffusion.com) Publisher: Fusion Authority( http://www.fusionauthority.com) Adobe Community Expert / Advanced Certified ColdFusion Professional -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap
[te] Skittlez is mine (aka scott email at the spidaweb.com) On Jan 4, 2008 3:21 PM, Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey what are you guys' Steam ids? Mine is RyanNotBrian, might see ya on there. -- *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 4 January 2008 4:14 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap Ok.. See now I went smack talked Geoff and he schooled me in-game just 20mins ago: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2165299276size=o I stand corrected sir.. well played.. On Jan 4, 2008 12:02 PM, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Happy New Year to you too ScottJ Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 9015 8628 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 4 January 2008 12:36 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap Take a vote then, help the Bowers out.. as hey may get a tad busy planning a little event we like to call WebDU 08... I vote we don't put Andrew Scott in charge but we do consider Barry Beattie ;) hehehe (You know I have love for Andrew.. sending a big *hugs* your way Andrew). On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 AM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: indeed. I remember my first foray into this tech listserv thing nearly 10 years ago with Charles Carrol's LearnASP.com. He moderated every single message. Drove him nuts. On Jan 3, 2008 3:46 AM, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Multiple moderators. :) On Jan 2, 2008 4:30 AM, Geoff Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 12:43 pm, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is possible for the list owner to delete these posts and to ban the users. It' also possible for the list owner to set the list so that new memberships are moderated. As a general note to everyone on this topic. The list owner (aka me) regularly reviews the spam posts and reports, removes, and bans the authors. But heh I take a holiday every now and then ;) -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdinowitz) President: House of Fusion( http://www.houseoffusion.com) Publisher: Fusion Authority( http://www.fusionauthority.com) Adobe Community Expert / Advanced Certified ColdFusion Professional -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap
TeamFortress 2. The best first person shooter on the planet in my opinion.. pft...I play XBOX for games like Assasins Creed (Must have game btw) but when it comes to 3rd person shooters there is a line folks... you are either a joystick jockey (controller) or a mouser wrangler (mouser). anyway.. back to the hard slog.. *watches as TeamFortress 2 loads..* On Jan 4, 2008 5:00 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shouldn't you all have been working 20 minutes ago, hmm. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 4 January 2008 4:14 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap Ok.. See now I went smack talked Geoff and he schooled me in-game just 20mins ago: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2165299276size=o I stand corrected sir.. well played.. On Jan 4, 2008 12:02 PM, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Happy New Year to you too ScottJ Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 9015 8628 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 4 January 2008 12:36 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: CFAUSSIE Crap Take a vote then, help the Bowers out.. as hey may get a tad busy planning a little event we like to call WebDU 08... I vote we don't put Andrew Scott in charge but we do consider Barry Beattie ;) hehehe (You know I have love for Andrew.. sending a big *hugs* your way Andrew). On Jan 3, 2008 6:43 AM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: indeed. I remember my first foray into this tech listserv thing nearly 10 years ago with Charles Carrol's LearnASP.com. He moderated every single message. Drove him nuts. On Jan 3, 2008 3:46 AM, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Multiple moderators. :) On Jan 2, 2008 4:30 AM, Geoff Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 12:43 pm, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is possible for the list owner to delete these posts and to ban the users. It' also possible for the list owner to set the list so that new memberships are moderated. As a general note to everyone on this topic. The list owner (aka me) regularly reviews the spam posts and reports, removes, and bans the authors. But heh I take a holiday every now and then ;) -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdinowitz) President: House of Fusion( http://www.houseoffusion.com) Publisher: Fusion Authority( http://www.fusionauthority.com) Adobe Community Expert / Advanced Certified ColdFusion Professional -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Outlook protecting your privacy?
Asking internally what the story behind this is.. Scott. On Nov 30, 2007 5:42 PM, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds like Outlook hasn't been patched. This indeed is how it is supose to work. provided outlook 2003 has all updates applied. On 11/30/07, Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks, Just an interesting thing I found the other day... I was building a little app that embeds a web bug in an email so I can test if a user has read it. It uses a 1 pixel gif image, that has the source pointing back at the server, so it makes a call to a CF page to tell me who's read it... pretty basic tracking behavior... So I get the test emails in my inbox and I get the usual Right-click here to download pictures. To help protect your privacy, Outlook prevented automatic download of this picture from the Internet I expected this, and figured I would need to choose to download pictures before my read would get tracked. However, before I did this, I looked at my tracking database.. lo and behold it had recorded a read event for the email I had just recieved... even though I didn't choose to download pictures. I always thought I Outlook wouldn't sent the GET request for the tracking bug, until after I chose to download pictures. I assumed all the SPAM I get wasn't actually sending messages back to the originators. Was I wrong? Has anyone else noticed this behavioir.. or is there something funky with my system? This is Outlook 2003 on Win XP by the way. thanks! Ryan Sabir Technical Director *p:* (02) 9274 8030 *f:* (02) 9274 8099 *m:* 0411 512 454 *w:* www.newgency.com *Newgency Pty Ltd* Web | Multimedia | eMarketing 115 Cooper St Surry Hills NSW 2010 Sydney, Australia www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Kind of OT - do you guys charge for this?
It comes back to customer expectation. You don't want to slip in hidden charges like well as of now you're paying for my travel and expenses as i'd argue this isn't fair (You never mentioned this when I hired you.. what the...) That being said, I usually when quoting for a job etc, factor in commute / emails / instant message conversations / reports etc into the equation so when the customer does require my butt to be onsite for whatever reason it's factored in. I also used to make it clear that they had x number of units set aside for this, and that should they not be used I'd not charge them for it in the end (even in one case offered a refund on the costs which they declined since the job was done and they liked the outcome). You really need to be disciplined with your clients, in that don't chase the cheapest price as its stuff like this that trips you up and can cascade forward. Quote fairly but make no mistake, your commute time is on their dime as in theory you could be spending time with the family, chasing more work or even working on another project. The transport costs alone addup. But I'd recommend you never say to them ..Sorry, I need to charge you for fuel money as It all adds up.. or something along those lines as it cheapens your consultancy brand firstly and secondly it sends mixed signals to the respective client. If however you are being paid per day basis, then you should be charging them for 10-12hr day ( as that's likely how long you'll be working anyway + it adds enough buffer to absorb a lot of the hidden costs). On Dec 1, 2007 2:25 PM, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry if this is too off-topic. I dont think it is but never mind i'll post anyway . What do you other contractors/freelancers do in this scenario: You work off site for a client, working from your own office on a task, charging by the hour for the job. The client calls and says he wants you in his office for a meeting with some of the stakeholders in the job. The meeting will take 2.5 hours, on a day when you'd otherwise be working by the hour for this client or another ... Travel to the client's office is 90 minutes each way, a total of 3 hours travelling time when you count both trips there and back. You obviously charge the client for the 2.5 hours stakeholders meeting, but do you also charge for the 3 hours travel time?If so, at the full chargeout rate or a special travel time rate? I think if you are going to spend 8 hours at the client office, its' like travel to and from work and therefore not chargeable. but since this is a part of a day that would otherwise be chargeable if you werent going to the meeting, do you charge for the 3 horus taken out of the day travelling? -- Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET http://asp.net/ hosting from AUD$15/month -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Friday arvo O.T - thinking of giving up Apple and going back to Windows.
Err Apple copied IBM .. so who's in the right here? (I'm also pretty sure typewriters have always had CNTRL key that pre-dates Apple Lisa... quick search on Wikipedia found a typewriter with it but it was 1989 photo so can't back this up). At any point, I love how Apple is put on this holy throne of 100% pure innovation. On Nov 23, 2007 1:49 AM, Chris Velevitch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 22, 2007 3:02 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... what the heck is wrong with CTRL + C.. Don't you mean 'what the heck is wrong with COMMAND + C', afterall where did Microsoft get the idea in the first place? Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Sydney Flash Platform Developers Group m: 0415 469 095 www.flashdev.org.au -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Friday arvo O.T - thinking of giving up Apple and going back to Windows.
I'm on the verge of throwing in the Mac towel.. its nothing really specific just that unless I'm using Adobe Products + iLife etc, the majority of my time is spent in Windows Vista.. the one annoyance I have is the keyboard layout vs windows etc.. like APPLE + C for copy? what the heck is wrong with CTRL + C.. I know you can remap the keyboard but not all software inherits this...i now have a MacBook Pro and an iMac so its a bitter pill to swallow :) But .. i still make use of it on the road and thats what matters I guess :) On Nov 18, 2007 4:24 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many reasons do you really need to give up a Mac? if it gets like that, one wonders why travel down that road in the first place... heck, if it's good enough for Scott Barnes to pick up a Mac (and open a Mac.com http://mac.com/ account) then it can't be all bad. Perhaps the question should be how many reasons does it take to give up a Mac? In my case, sadly, just one. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Web-blast 07: Web Community Get Together (Sydney)
I nearly went to Wagga Wagga for Free piss... heh :) On Nov 15, 2007 5:35 PM, MrBuzzy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd almost consider flocking to Canberra for free piss. On Nov 15, 2007 5:43 PM, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know any city that won't flock for free piss? Mark On Nov 15, 2007 5:42 PM, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ROTFL! they won't turn up for bloody user groups but they'll flock in droves for free piss. Ah, Sydney... it hasn't changed in all these years... On 11/15/07, Geoff Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, Just a heads up for a great Christmas bash here in Sydney. Supported in large part by some of your fellow CF community members. Get in early -- as last year was a sell out (free but limited space) within 48 hours. Hope to see at least some of you there :) -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ --- Web-blast 07 --- Web-blast is a huge end-of-year party for Sydney's web community - bringing together web designers, web project managers, interface designers, information architects and other web professionals. Join a range of Sydney's web communities and celebrate the end of year in style. When: Wednesday 12 December 2007 Time: 6pm onwards Where: Bar Broadway Entry: Free Drinks: Free till the bar tab runs out Food: Free finger food provided Registration: Opens on Monday 26 November (see website) More: http://webblast.org/ Hope to see you there! --- PROUDLY SPONSORED BY --- Red Square http://redsquare.com.au One of Australia's leading Internet agencies, delivering exceptional user experiences online. WebDU http://webdu.com.au The latest in web development, tools and techniques -- catch up, meet up and get inspired! 7-9 May 2008, Star City, Sydney Search Marketing Expo Sydney http://searchmarketingexpo.com Keeping you ahead of changes in the fast moving world of search. 10-11 April 2008, Crystal Palace, Luna Park, Sydney Proudly supported by: SitePoint http://www.sitepoint.com Fun, practical and easy-to-understand books for web professionals. -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: OT: Vista Issue
*Jeff:* Can you help Dale out, he locked his keys in the car (so to speak).. i think he busted our software ;) hehe. Dale: Jeff is one of our smartest IT Pro Evangelists and if he can't help you then you've just discovered a new area of hurt and for that..ooops :P On Nov 6, 2007 8:03 PM, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Off topic I know but I've googled a lot and can't find the answer to this. Have a user who is on Vista Business. Stand alone, no domain controller etc. His password expired, when he tries to change it, it gives him permission denied. From references I did find, I think the account might have been setup with Password Expiry and Do Not Allow User to Change Password. Now if this is the case, then Vista is just stupid for allowing this, but to top this off I was thinking CTRL ALT DEL from login twice, get the full login, login as Administrator. Nope, they got rid of this in Vista, and disabled the Administrator account by default. So I have one account on this machine with an expired password and no idea how to change it. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Adobe/Apple Screwed the pooch!
Mactards! :) I won't get my copy of the new feline until next week, but part of me wonders why the move to go from A to B .. as so far reports online make us Microsoftee's smile a bit ;) (welcome to our pain - new OS, new problems). Anyway, Winblows.. now that hurt Jer.. Everytime you say Winblows we execute a kitten, and the blood is on your hands jeremy.. the blood..is...on...your..hands. :) p.s We don't harm kittens it was a joke .. On 10/29/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah thought it may be the case. Bottom line though is that until adobe release the newer versions of pretty much everything MAC users are foobah! I use localhost running port 8500 so using jrun I guess I could use in the mean time IF it works. But it doesn't really matter anyway as I will be programming in .NET anyway. Thus going to Vista. bla bla bla bla. Now we play the waiting game...It's forcing me to build stuff in .NET which is a good thing anyway.hehe. Jeremy On Oct 28, 9:10 pm, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: UPDATE: seen this yet? http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/index.cfm/2007/10/27/Running-ColdFusio... good luck tell us how you get on... b On 10/28/07, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey Jer... this subject is doing the rounds on the user group managers list at the moment - stay tuned for any news that come down the pipleline within Adobe. Additionally, Sean Corfield has a few words to say on this - http://corfield.org/blog/index.cfm/do/blog.entry/entry/Leopard_Compat. .. the short of it - you're probably stuck so it may be a case to roll back to 10.4 if you can, at least until the fixes start coming in (hopefully only days for a hotfix, a month or two for a point release) at least your lucky. my poor little PPC Mac only scrapes in spec-wise - and it's only just had it's second birthday... cheers barry.b Screwed the pooch! ? my, what an imaginative and colourful turn of phrase... I can only guess what it means... On 10/28/07, cfgroupie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was totally excited to get my copy of Mac OSX. So much so that I woke up the night before it came out 2am and thought...ooo only a few more hours till I get it. How Sad! Nevertheless, I did get it and I did get to install it and everything went really smoothly. Love that about a mac. Shit just works. Except. - Adobe ColdFusion8 tanked! I re-installed it and it still didn't work. So being the resourceful programmer I am I went to the Adobe website where I found a link http://www.adobe.com/support/products/pdfs/leopardsupport.pdf No where in the document did it say that it may have issues with ColdFusion8. So I made the assumption it should have worked. When I reinstalled (again) I found in the log there are issues with the java version. ug. We give microsoft shit about not being compatible with stuff but in this case I believe Apple and Adobe dropped the ball. That said I won't be going back to MS for my preferred OS simply because shit just works (except cf8 hehehe). - Apple WTF happen to stacks...what a waste of programming energy! I was really looking forward to this feature but you can't customize it what so ever. better off turning it off until its cleaned up. IF...and I doubt it; anyone is from Adobe and Apple are reading this. Fix it as soon as possible. Strike while the iron is hot with people jumping to MacOSX rather then WIndblows. Although that said I have had to give up ColdFusion for .NET and I have had to take at least 4 other CF'ers with me...so..I can't say to much. Jeremy. PS if anyone else has had the problem. let me know...and if you got it working let me know too. purty please. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: SOT: Some Stats
On 10/26/07, Sean Bucklar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a microsoft weenie through and through. But Vista desperately needs a 'classic' interface at a top level - a user experience wide toggle that will give microsoft applications an XP style UI - they've scared off a massive number of business people with the hassle of learning where all the buttons are now. And then they need an 'advanced user' Sorry to pick over the bones (heh) but that's actually untrue. Where did you source that from? toggle - even if it requires editing the registry or doing something equivalently scary to frighten away mom and dad home users - that will turn off all the incredibly annoying idiot proofing they've tried to implement. I also really have to wonder how long it's going to remain worth the effort to keep up IE. Sure their user base is huge - but it's diminishing at a rapidly expanding rate, and it constantly draws fire for being shit. I really wonder if they wouldn't be better off ditching the damn thing, and just getting on board with Firefox. Not true :) (sorry to be that Microsoft guy on this one). Where did you source that from as well? (ie I'm all for the Firefox argument, I use IE 99% of the time because it's default in vista and it became second nature. Yet when I debug Flex i prefer firefox? *shrug* each to their own. On a Mac, i prefer Safari? do i have a bias against Firefox? nope, but just got used to not using it.. Point is, there is different variances here at play. You have to also factor the Internet growth, PC market share and blah blah ..stats that show we are bubbling outward and the old days of saying If you had 20 apples, and Microsoft sells 10, therefore it's 50% reduction in Apples.. what they didn't say was we grew another 100 apples by the time the 10 were sold.. Also, understand Vista's selling well beyond our expectations (to illustrate this, take into account Adobe CS3 PC market share and that will also give you strong indicators of Windows Vista adoption - inclusive of Bootcamp/Parallels discussions..an install is an install :) Man is this Microsoft chip implanted or what... p.s There are three types of lies: - A lie - A Damn Lie - Statistics. -- Scott Barnes RIA Evangelist Microsoft. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: MSSQL 2005 Developer Edition
you guys owe me ;) so next time i get punchy with Adobe or something like that and you decide to tear me a new one, think of this moment in time. I manage to hunt my way through the org charts here at Microsoft and find someone in the SQL team whom i can bend their ear on a feature that doesn't get added to the wouldn't it be cool pile (as you can imagine SQL 2008 being ready to drop any day now, the folks aren't in the mood for wouldn't it be cool). I can't give you his name to protect the innocent suffice to say, i've taken this thread, highlighted the key messages from Mike etc (using that purty yellow marker) - ignored Barry Beattie.. as well dude wtf are you doing with Access ? :P and seeing what can stick. Hey it's a shot in the dark as there is a lot to consider here (eg how will the security folks - whom are super sensitive to concepts like this.. can't imagine why, especially when we've had a really good Security perception in the past releases of Windows - vista is more secure now, lessons learnt - but ..*shrug*) Your voice was heard Mike. If it makes it's way through to the release cycle of SQL 2009 or whatever the next generation of SQL, then we can all agree that Mike made his mark here today on CFAUSSIE. Oh.. i did burn a favour or two on this one and i think i annoyed the person in questions 2-tiers of bosses for subverting the hierarchy. I'll buy them a beer or two when I'm next in Seattle (Just to punish them for Mike's aggravation, it will be a fosters beer!) (FYI: [EMAIL PROTECTED] is our new Web Platform Architect Evangelist (Hosting sorta) per say, he is widely respected in the biz and is new (chip hasn't been implanted yet, so nows your chance to tackle him). Maybe he can help point Mike etc in the direction of some ISP's that could *possibly* accomodate you folks. He's also a good contact to have if you have IIS7.0 queries, Server Setups etc.. On 10/19/07, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale, I dont think Microsoft is under any obligation to look after my interests. But they had a terrific version of SQLServer in teh 2000 version. It had a great feature called DTS that did everything those of us using shared hosting needed. Then they improved it with SQL2005. Gave us a thing called SSIS instead. NO ONE has been able to show me how to automatically copy a database from one server box to another across the internet. It's alleged it's possible, but I cant make it happen using SSIS and I havent met anyone who can do it. (and would therefore be able to show me how). I can create SSIS projects, and save them, yet when I run the jobs later, they attach the two databases together, appear to validate all the connections/tables etc, then appear to transfer the records from one to the other, but no actual data transfer takes place. That is not a case of my expecting Microsoft to look after my interests. It's a case of my expecting Microsoft's product to DO what they say it does, or else be able to show me what I'm doing wrong. I've asked in SQLServer groups, and forums. I've googled my fingers to the bone. I've searched high and low and asked anyone i thought might be able to help me, and not a single person can tell me they've used SSIS repeatedly how it's alleged it works. I would dearly love someone to show me what I'm doing wrong, because it would save me about 8-10 hours a week, which i currently spend doing routine database maintenance and publishing sites when i really should be doing something else. I repeat. It used to work sweetly. Then they improved it. And broke it. And SSIS doesnt even do what it's supposed to do. Oh and one more thing .. it's not just me - there are DOZENS of others in teh same boat. Just looik at the response when Scott Barnes generously offered to help initially. Thats only this list.Plus there are thousands, perhaps millions, of people with PHP, ASP sites also struggling to keep their in synch. Saying they should all have their own servers is a ridiculous answer. Not everyone can justify several hundred dollars a month for hosting on a colo server. Are you seriously suggesting that all those customers of Hostmysite, Crystaltech, Fasthit, HostingAtoZ etc etc should each cough up for a colo server and everything that entails?? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 10/19/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree at all. Using a hosting provider comes with sacrifices. You can't expect to be able to do everything you like. I'm not sure this is a MS problem, but rather a choice of yours. If you have really specific needs, then it's time to organise your own servers. Let the servers set you free. Regards Dale Fraser http://learncf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie
[cfaussie] Re: MSSQL 2005 Developer Edition
oh and he can code in Coldfusion and is Brisbane based! :P On 10/19/07, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you guys owe me ;) so next time i get punchy with Adobe or something like that and you decide to tear me a new one, think of this moment in time. I manage to hunt my way through the org charts here at Microsoft and find someone in the SQL team whom i can bend their ear on a feature that doesn't get added to the wouldn't it be cool pile (as you can imagine SQL 2008 being ready to drop any day now, the folks aren't in the mood for wouldn't it be cool). I can't give you his name to protect the innocent suffice to say, i've taken this thread, highlighted the key messages from Mike etc (using that purty yellow marker) - ignored Barry Beattie.. as well dude wtf are you doing with Access ? :P and seeing what can stick. Hey it's a shot in the dark as there is a lot to consider here (eg how will the security folks - whom are super sensitive to concepts like this.. can't imagine why, especially when we've had a really good Security perception in the past releases of Windows - vista is more secure now, lessons learnt - but ..*shrug*) Your voice was heard Mike. If it makes it's way through to the release cycle of SQL 2009 or whatever the next generation of SQL, then we can all agree that Mike made his mark here today on CFAUSSIE. Oh.. i did burn a favour or two on this one and i think i annoyed the person in questions 2-tiers of bosses for subverting the hierarchy. I'll buy them a beer or two when I'm next in Seattle (Just to punish them for Mike's aggravation, it will be a fosters beer!) (FYI: [EMAIL PROTECTED] is our new Web Platform Architect Evangelist (Hosting sorta) per say, he is widely respected in the biz and is new (chip hasn't been implanted yet, so nows your chance to tackle him). Maybe he can help point Mike etc in the direction of some ISP's that could *possibly* accomodate you folks. He's also a good contact to have if you have IIS7.0 queries, Server Setups etc.. On 10/19/07, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale, I dont think Microsoft is under any obligation to look after my interests. But they had a terrific version of SQLServer in teh 2000 version. It had a great feature called DTS that did everything those of us using shared hosting needed. Then they improved it with SQL2005. Gave us a thing called SSIS instead. NO ONE has been able to show me how to automatically copy a database from one server box to another across the internet. It's alleged it's possible, but I cant make it happen using SSIS and I havent met anyone who can do it. (and would therefore be able to show me how). I can create SSIS projects, and save them, yet when I run the jobs later, they attach the two databases together, appear to validate all the connections/tables etc, then appear to transfer the records from one to the other, but no actual data transfer takes place. That is not a case of my expecting Microsoft to look after my interests. It's a case of my expecting Microsoft's product to DO what they say it does, or else be able to show me what I'm doing wrong. I've asked in SQLServer groups, and forums. I've googled my fingers to the bone. I've searched high and low and asked anyone i thought might be able to help me, and not a single person can tell me they've used SSIS repeatedly how it's alleged it works. I would dearly love someone to show me what I'm doing wrong, because it would save me about 8-10 hours a week, which i currently spend doing routine database maintenance and publishing sites when i really should be doing something else. I repeat. It used to work sweetly. Then they improved it. And broke it. And SSIS doesnt even do what it's supposed to do. Oh and one more thing .. it's not just me - there are DOZENS of others in teh same boat. Just looik at the response when Scott Barnes generously offered to help initially. Thats only this list.Plus there are thousands, perhaps millions, of people with PHP, ASP sites also struggling to keep their in synch. Saying they should all have their own servers is a ridiculous answer. Not everyone can justify several hundred dollars a month for hosting on a colo server. Are you seriously suggesting that all those customers of Hostmysite, Crystaltech, Fasthit, HostingAtoZ etc etc should each cough up for a colo server and everything that entails?? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET http://asp.net/ hosting from AUD$15/month On 10/19/07, Dale Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't agree at all. Using a hosting provider comes with sacrifices. You can't expect to be able to do everything you like. I'm not sure this is a MS problem, but rather a choice of yours
[cfaussie] Re: MSSQL 2005 Developer Edition
Mike, i know this will sound unfair but.. you need to take that up with the hosting provider(s) in question. I've also flicked this to Jorke our resident Hosting Evangelist here at Microsoft (we now have 13 Evangelist in Australia w00t!) and will leave that on his door step as that's as far as I can go with my current brainpower :) / skillset :) Jorke: Over to you buddy.. :D On 10/18/07, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a postscript to my last post, I have tried using backup as a way to transfer databases from one machine to another. I get these two sorts of problems: [A] i dont have the rights to do backups across the internet, even if it's possible, so i ask the System guy to do it for me and then send me the database. That has the problem that it can't be done NOW. It has to be done by lodging a ticket and it's done sometime in teh next 24 hours or so or whever the system guy gets around to do it. And it can't be automated.We do nightly backups ourselves but they're not brought locally, they're kept at the remote host and there will be a charge to retrieve them and restore them to the production host. [B] when i do get the backup, resotiring it to a different machine to the one it was backedup from is difficult. I havent cracked the secret on how to do that yet, and I'd love to see how that can be done. Whenever I've tried it, i get an error message sayng it's not my database and I dont have the rights to do it. Oh by the way, Peter's flash movie doesnt stream freely. It stops every 2 seconds for half a second. Except when you try to play it a second time, when after 30 seconds it skips straight to the end. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: MSSQL 2005 Developer Edition
Hi All, As per a my promise, here is a Video Cast Peter did to illustrate Network Backups with SQL 2005. http://www.askasqlguru.com/ Hope this helps! :) On 10/2/07, Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott, At the end of the day, even though these are small feedback / enhancements. As you stated if you aren't aware of the problems or what can be done to fix it, it never gets done. The one thing that I do like, is that you do frequent here and are able to give us assistance where you can on such matters. Andrew Scott Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. Ltd. www.aegeon.com.au Phone: +613 8676 4223 Mobile: 0404 998 273 *From:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2007 1:02 PM *To:* cfaussie@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: MSSQL 2005 Developer Edition Hey its brilliant feedback. As in the end it's folks like you guys whom spend a lot on our products, and if you are having trouble with the what should be simple tasks, than in my book something is wrong here. I think i annoyed someone on the SQL Team tonight though .. heh...well that's one more bridge burnt i guess, plenty more lumber out back to fix that hehehe -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: MAX 2007
Thanks for the kind words bazza - payment's coming ;) heh. We have around 70,000+ employees here at Microsoft world wide, and so i'm bound to get on a few of their nerves :) I think I know whom the folks in question were and yeah we don't get a long (welcome to the office politics). Basically if you think I'm punchy towards Adobe via the public forum(s) you should see what i'm like internally... (they've all learnt fast I have a unique way and let him be). I want Silverlight, WPF etc all to be better, and we aren't done by any stretch. In the process, a few toes / ego's get stepped on and they can cry about it at dinner tables @ competitor events in front of customers (which is poor form) or they can build a bridge and get over it :) either way the folks with whom I do interact / care about are the *actual* decision makers of the products. Anywho, suprised I'm the topic of a lunch conversation half away around the world? What was Sean Corfields signature again? If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive - Margaret Atwood On 10/5/07, Barry Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and a little OT side-note, I was sitting with a bunch of Microsoft guys during lunch one day and the topic of Scott Barnes came up. Didn't seem to like him very much. at least he's made an impression on them - which is true all the way up to Scott Guthrie. Harry M. Miller would be the first person to agree that the only bad press coverage is none at all... actually this is a benefit to Microsoft - if you'll allow me to go thru the thinking... I know Barnes, worked with the guy - he haunts me around every corner, being in the same city 'n' all If Barnes is on-form, he'll be stiring the bejesus out of people, just to get people thinking - getting mossy. Microsoft has so many holes that a good bit of shaking could wake them up to smell the roses. Like? sounds like an old-boy's network disapproving of someone from outside because they're not like them. Someone hired Barnes knowing full well what he's like. It's not hard to find his incredibly acidic old blog posts, especially since I was sitting right next to him - going thru the same experiences - watching him document them. And he's *still* there in a MS chair... Nah, Barnes (as a concept) is a cunning plan, Baldric. At the very least it's entertainment... -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[cfaussie] Re: Adobe Refresh 07 - Melbourne and Sydney
I'm in Melbourne around this so, +1 for me ... On 10/2/07, Mark Mandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to get more information than what is being presented on Adobe Refresh, and by who - I'll let everyone know if I find anything out. Mark On 10/2/07, KC Kuok [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just got this off geekglue.blogspot.com (I met Bill at one of the MUG meetings) http://geekglue.blogspot.com/2007/10/adobe-refresh.html in his comical words Adobe Refresh is kind of like a MAX debrief for us poor suckers who couldn't go. :) doesn't seem to be a monetary cost involved... so better register asap folks! -- E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.compoundtheory.com -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups cfaussie group. To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
