date:20231018

One of my Bermuda crew has covid.  We are planning to leave Annapolis
Monday.  Contact me if interested.

-- 
Joel
Hylas 49
Rule One
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread John Read via CnC-List

Tipping is one of the main reasons I store mast down.  Mast presents a lot of 
windage in cold winter storms.  Puts a lot of pressure on small area of poppet 
that actually contacts the hull.  To experience how much just stick your arm 
out the window of a car going 60!!  Use steel cradle purpose built for the 
boat.  Yard adds one extra stand port and starboard.  No problems in 25 years.

 

John Read

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 5:52 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike ; Robert Abbott 

Subject: Stus-List winter storage

 

The key to keeping mast up during winter is the cradlethe boats with 
inadequate or damaged cradles are at risk.  I have seen several boats at my 
club where the boats have toppled and it was the cradle that failed in every 
instance.

And for loosening the rigging in winterno need if the rig is properly tuned 
at storagebesides, as someone here mentioned, the aluminum mast shrinks 
first in extreme cold.  

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32- #277
halifax, N.S. 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

2023-10-18 Thread Dave S via CnC-List

Chuck - do some research on lithium, they are way cheaper now than even a year 
or two ago.  I’m in curacao at the moment refitting my new boat and am 
installing two 230ah LiFePo  batteries.  
As others have said you need to determine the math regarding the ac.   I’d 
strongly suggestadding a 3rd smaller agm as a start battery, setting up the 
switching appropriately, then using lithium batteries for the house.  You’ll 
never look back. 
I documented this on the windstar blog and I think the switching/acr setup 
would work for you but you’d need to be sure of your real overnight load 
(fridge, anchor light, ac, Netflix?).  And the recharge capacity of your charge 
sources.  

Dave 
Ex c 33-2 windstar 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2023, at 8:02 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hey Josh,
>  
> Good ideas as always.
>  
> I'd really prefer to run AC off the batteries while on the hook. 
> It doesn't run continuous all night, but cycles and most nights, I turn off 
> the AC for the night after it's cooled down the cabin.  Usually around 11pm. 
>  
> I would invest in Lithium to a point.  Two lithium 200ah batteries weigh 
> almost the same weight as two 100 Ah AGMs. 
> tMy goal is to determine the best way to build a reliable system, identify 
> all the components needed, price those and consider all the wiring issues.  
> if it's too expensive, it will justify staying at a marina on hot nights, and 
> plugging in.
>  
>  
> Chuck
>  
>  
>  
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

Well said, Jeff.
 
 

> On 10/18/2023 7:12 PM EDT Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>  
>  
> Aluminum coefficient of thermal expansion is about 13e-6 and SS about 6.5e-6. 
> If the mast from keel to head is 50 ft, and temp change is 100 degrees F mast 
> contracts about 3/4" and stays, which are shorter but angled, contract about 
> 5/16". So, effectively, the temperature loosens the stays for you. If that's 
> a concern for some reason.
> Jeff Laman
> 81 C
>  
> Get Outlook for Android https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
> 
> -
> From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 3:52:18 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: Hoyt, Mike ; Robert Abbott 
> 
> Subject: Stus-List winter storage
>  
> The key to keeping mast up during winter is the cradlethe boats with 
> inadequate or damaged cradles are at risk.  I have seen several boats at my 
> club where the boats have toppled and it was the cradle that failed in every 
> instance.
> 
> And for loosening the rigging in winterno need if the rig is properly 
> tuned at storagebesides, as someone here mentioned, the aluminum mast 
> shrinks first in extreme cold.  
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32- #277
> halifax, N.S.
> 
> On 2023-10-18 11:19 a.m., Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Re mast up.  A friend stored his C 33-2 with mast up and it blew over in 
> > a winter storm.  He now has no mast.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > With mast down possibly the reduced windage would have prevented the boat 
> > from blowing over but certainly would have not resulted in a mast broken in 
> > three areas.  The boat was on a cradle.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Food for thought
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Mike Hoyt
> > 
> > Persistence
> > 
> > Halifax, NS
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: Bob Mann via CnC-List  
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:45 AM
> > To: Stus-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Cc: Bob Mann  mailto:sailrm...@comcast.net
> > Subject: Stus-List winter storage
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For those 
> > who store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or 
> > do you loosen the shrouds for the winter? Bob Mann Mystic ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ 
> > ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those 
> > who store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or 
> > do you loosen the shrouds for the winter?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Bob Mann
> > 
> > Mystic
> > 
> > 
> > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
> > help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > Thanks for your help.
> > Stu
> > 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

Hey Josh,
 
Good ideas as always.
 
I'd really prefer to run AC off the batteries while on the hook. 
It doesn't run continuous all night, but cycles and most nights, I turn off the 
AC for the night after it's cooled down the cabin.  Usually around 11pm. 
 
I would invest in Lithium to a point.  Two lithium 200ah batteries weigh almost 
the same weight as two 100 Ah AGMs. 
tMy goal is to determine the best way to build a reliable system, identify all 
the components needed, price those and consider all the wiring issues.  if it's 
too expensive, it will justify staying at a marina on hot nights, and plugging 
in.
 
 
Chuck
 
 
 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List

Aluminum coefficient of thermal expansion is about 13e-6 and SS about 6.5e-6. 
If the mast from keel to head is 50 ft, and temp change is 100 degrees F mast 
contracts about 3/4" and stays, which are shorter but angled, contract about 
5/16". So, effectively, the temperature loosens the stays for you. If that's a 
concern for some reason.
Jeff Laman
81 C

Get Outlook for Android

From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 3:52:18 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike ; Robert Abbott 

Subject: Stus-List winter storage

The key to keeping mast up during winter is the cradlethe boats with 
inadequate or damaged cradles are at risk.  I have seen several boats at my 
club where the boats have toppled and it was the cradle that failed in every 
instance.

And for loosening the rigging in winterno need if the rig is properly tuned 
at storagebesides, as someone here mentioned, the aluminum mast shrinks 
first in extreme cold.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32- #277
halifax, N.S.

On 2023-10-18 11:19 a.m., Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:

Re mast up.  A friend stored his C 33-2 with mast up and it blew over in a 
winter storm.  He now has no mast.



With mast down possibly the reduced windage would have prevented the boat from 
blowing over but certainly would have not resulted in a mast broken in three 
areas.  The boat was on a cradle.



Food for thought



Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS



From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:45 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bob Mann 
Subject: Stus-List winter storage



Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter? Bob Mann Mystic ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ 
‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?



Bob Mann

Mystic



Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread Robert Abbott via CnC-List

The key to keeping mast up during winter is the cradlethe boats with
inadequate or damaged cradles are at risk. I have seen several boats at
my club where the boats have toppled and it was the cradle that failed
in every instance.

And for loosening the rigging in winterno need if the rig is
properly tuned at storagebesides, as someone here mentioned, the
aluminum mast shrinks first in extreme cold.

Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32- #277
halifax, N.S.

On 2023-10-18 11:19 a.m., Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:

Re mast up. A friend stored his C 33-2 with mast up and it blew
over in a winter storm. He now has no mast.

With mast down possibly the reduced windage would have prevented the
boat from blowing over but certainly would have not resulted in a mast
broken in three areas. The boat was on a cradle.

Food for thought

Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS

*From:*Bob Mann via CnC-List
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:45 AM
*To:* Stus-List
*Cc:* Bob Mann
*Subject:* Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For
those who store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud
tension alone or do you loosen the shrouds for the winter? Bob Mann
Mystic ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For
those who store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud
tension alone or do you loosen the shrouds for the winter?

Bob Mann

Mystic

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help
me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help
me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

2023-10-18 Thread Josh Muckley via CnC-List

I was estimating 3000A-hr too.  That's 30 group 27 batteries!  Not sure you 
want to do that. 

Most people opt for generators to power the air conditioning overnight.  You 
only need a small 2kw unit.  The little red Hondas are popular for this 
purpose.  You can set them on the foredeck and run a shore power cord aft to 
your normal shore power plug.  Not sure how long they are rated to run on one 
tank of gas.  Of course this means keeping gasoline on board too.  A little 
diesel genset is the best option if you can make room to mount it.  Then it can 
be fuelled from the ship's tank.

Oct 18, 2023 15:13:56 Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List :

> The simple math shows that if you need 12.5 A at 120 V, you will need 125 A 
> at 12 V. This is assuming 100% efficiency of the inverter. I bet that they 
> are around 80%, so add 20% to that number (1.2 x 125 A = 150 A). Run this for 
> 12 h and you will use 150 A x 12 h = 1800 Ah. In order to accomplish that, 
> you need a 3600 Ah battery bank (lead-acid), or around 2250 Ah if lithium.
> 
> In short, you will need a small power station to power it (a 2000 W generator 
> will recharge that battery bank in more than 12 h).
> 
> These calculations did not include the Paukert effect or potential issues 
> related to heat generated when discharging or charging the batteries.
> 
> The only good news I could think of is that you won't need 12.5 A all the 
> time (a good chance is that after the initial run, the AC will be cycling on 
> and off, and will run about half of the time). Which means that a smaller 
> battery bank will be needed (2000 Ah (L-A)/1250 Ah (Li)).
> 
> 
> There might be other considerations that might help reducing that size (e.g., 
> AC that draws less current).
> 
> Hope it helps 
> 
> Marek
> Ottawa, ON
> 
> Sent from my Android-based can on a string
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
> Date: 2023-10-18 20:18 (GMT+01:00)
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" , CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
> 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter
> 
>  Original message 
> From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
> Date: 2023-10-18 20:18 (GMT+01:00)
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" , CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
> 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter
> 
> Very helpful.
>  
> What is the proper math to determine battery bank size needed to run our AC 
> unit for twelve hours?  I know a softstart would make it possible, and the 
> rated amp draw is 12.5 amps at 120vac.   I'm considering getting a lithium 
> 200 ah and keeping a 100 ah AGM as a start battery.    Solar panels are being 
> considered also.
>  
>  
>  
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>  
>  
>> On 10/18/2023 12:50 PM EDT Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> If it helps, think of the inverter as a special kind of extension cord. It 
>> passes power from Point A to Point B. It does not create or store power. It 
>> needs to be bigger than the expected load put on it.
>> 
>> The batteries need to be up to the task, but they do not create any power, 
>> they store it. If you want to use a lot of power, you have to generate a lot 
>> of power somehow.
>> 
>> A huge battery bank, say big enough to run an air conditioner overnight, on 
>> a C with a stock charging system would work one night and then you would 
>> need to motor about 8-10 hours if you wanted to do it again.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> Coquina
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> *From:* Dreuge via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2023 12:06 PM
>> *To:* Richard Bush 
>> *Cc:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Dreuge 
>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Richard,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> My point is that one should not size an inverter relative a battery, but 
>> size it to ones expected needs.    Folks often mix up or misuse terminology. 
>>    If the maximum power consumed from an electric coffee pot is 1000 Watts.  
>> Then one would need at least a 1kW inverter, but should get something larger 
>> to avoid maxing the operating limits.   Now the question is what battery can 
>> provide a constant 1000W for the 5 minutes to brew coffee.  Of course 
>> battery needs are greater than brewing coffee and an energy audit would give 
>> a better estimate, but for the sake of simplicity, let’s only consider 
>> coffee needs.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  For a 12V battery system (12.5V lead acid), the 1000W of power (P = 
>> voltage* current) is  provided by a battery current of 1000W/12.5V = 80A.  
>> So one would need a battery that can provide 80A of current for 5 minutes.  
>> A single 100A*hr lead acid type battery would be a poor choice as it would 
>> end up nearly depleted.   Relative to a 100 A*hr LiFePO4 battery, the 
>> LiFePO4 battery would brew about 10 times more coffee! 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -
>> Paul E.
>> 
>> 1981 C Landfall 38 
>> S/V Johanna Rose
>> Fort Walton Beach, FL
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

2023-10-18 Thread Andrew Burton via CnC-List

I have a meeting at RBYC on the 4th that I’d like to make. So see you before or after. Andrew Burton26 Beacon HillNewport, RI USA 02840+401 965 5260https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/On Oct 18, 2023, at 16:27, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote:We will be at RHADC, but we can take a bus to St G. On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 2:36 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List  wrote:Will do. Where are going to be? I usually stay in St G but may go around to RBYC this time. Andrew Burton26 Beacon HillNewport, RI USA 02840+401 965 5260https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/On Oct 18, 2023, at 14:05, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote:We will be there until about the 10th. Let me know when you get there. Joel On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 1:23 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List  wrote:How long will you stay in Bermuda, Joel? I’m hoping to get out of Newport on the 31st and head there.Andrew Burton26 Beacon HillNewport, RI USA    02840http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/+401 965-5260On Oct 18, 2023, at 12:39, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote:Sounds like fun!We are planning to leave for Bermuda Monday.  After a stop over, we head to the Carib for the winter before returning to Bermuda in April to hopefully stage a Med crossing mid May.JoelHylas 49Rule OneFormer owner The Office C 35/3On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 12:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  wrote:

  
   
 
 
  
   That's inspiring.  
   
  
    
   
  
   I am considering racing to Baltimore this Saturday, but the weather looks shitty;  winds on the nose, 14 to 25 knots, and rainy, temps 57 to 65 for a four to five hour long race.  I'll probably work inside the cabin on projects and daysail if the sun comes out.
   
  
    
   
  
   Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, near Annapolis
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
   
   
On 10/18/2023 11:16 AM EDT Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

   
 

   
 

   
Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is: 

  
 

 Gulfport, MS
 

 Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
 

 Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
 

 Navarre Beach, FL
 

 Pensacola area for 2-4 days
 

 Head home
 
 
 
   
  -- 
  
  
  
   Dennis C. 
   
Touche' 35-1 #83

   
Mandeville, LA

   
  
 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
   Thanks for your help.
   Stu
  
 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu-- Joel 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayThanks for your help.StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayThanks for your help.StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayThanks for your help.StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

We will be at RHADC, but we can take a bus to St G.

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 2:36 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Will do. Where are going to be? I usually stay in St G but may go around
> to RBYC this time.
>
> Andrew Burton
> 26 Beacon Hill
> 
> Newport, RI
> 
>
> USA 02840
> 
>
> +401 965 5260
> https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2023, at 14:05, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> We will be there until about the 10th. Let me know when you get there.
>
> Joel
>
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 1:23 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> How long will you stay in Bermuda, Joel? I’m hoping to get out of Newport
>> on the 31st and head there.
>>
>> Andrew Burton
>> 26 Beacon Hill
>> 
>> Newport, RI
>> 
>>
>> USA
>> 
>>  02840
>> 
>>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>> +401 965-5260
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2023, at 12:39, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Sounds like fun!
>>
>> We are planning to leave for Bermuda Monday.  After a stop over, we head
>> to the Carib for the winter before returning to Bermuda in April to
>> hopefully stage a Med crossing mid May.
>>
>> Joel
>> Hylas 49
>> Rule One
>> Former owner The Office C 35/3
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 12:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's inspiring.
>>>
>>> I am considering racing to Baltimore this Saturday, but the weather
>>> looks shitty;  winds on the nose, 14 to 25 knots, and rainy, temps 57 to 65
>>> for a four to five hour long race.  I'll probably work inside the cabin on
>>> projects and daysail if the sun comes out.
>>>
>>> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, near Annapolis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/18/2023 11:16 AM EDT Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and
>>> back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is:
>>>
>>> Gulfport, MS
>>> Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
>>> Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
>>> Navarre Beach, FL
>>> Pensacola area for 2-4 days
>>> Head home
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dennis C.
>>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>>> Mandeville, LA
>>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
>>> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>> Stu
>>>
>>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
>>> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>> Stu
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>>
>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
>> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks for your help.
>> Stu
>>
>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
>> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks for your help.
>> Stu
>
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
>
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

2023-10-18 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

The simple math shows that if you need 12.5 A at 120 V, you will need 125 A at 
12 V. This is assuming 100% efficiency of the inverter. I bet that they are 
around 80%, so add 20% to that number (1.2 x 125 A = 150 A). Run this for 12 h 
and you will use 150 A x 12 h = 1800 Ah. In order to accomplish that, you need 
a 3600 Ah battery bank (lead-acid), or around 2250 Ah if lithium.

In short, you will need a small power station to power it (a 2000 W generator 
will recharge that battery bank in more than 12 h).

These calculations did not include the Paukert effect or potential issues 
related to heat generated when discharging or charging the batteries.

The only good news I could think of is that you won't need 12.5 A all the time 
(a good chance is that after the initial run, the AC will be cycling on and 
off, and will run about half of the time). Which means that a smaller battery 
bank will be needed (2000 Ah (L-A)/1250 Ah (Li)).


There might be other considerations that might help reducing that size (e.g., 
AC that draws less current).

Hope it helps

Marek
Ottawa, ON

Sent from my Android-based can on a string




 Original message 
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
Date: 2023-10-18 20:18 (GMT+01:00)
To: Stus-List 
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" , CHARLES SCHEAFFER 

Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

 Original message 
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
Date: 2023-10-18 20:18 (GMT+01:00)
To: Stus-List 
Cc: "Della Barba, Joe" , CHARLES SCHEAFFER 

Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

Very helpful.

What is the proper math to determine battery bank size needed to run our AC 
unit for twelve hours?  I know a softstart would make it possible, and the 
rated amp draw is 12.5 amps at 120vac.   I'm considering getting a lithium 200 
ah and keeping a 100 ah AGM as a start battery.Solar panels are being 
considered also.



Thanks,
Chuck


On 10/18/2023 12:50 PM EDT Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:


If it helps, think of the inverter as a special kind of extension cord. It 
passes power from Point A to Point B. It does not create or store power. It 
needs to be bigger than the expected load put on it.
The batteries need to be up to the task, but they do not create any power, they 
store it. If you want to use a lot of power, you have to generate a lot of 
power somehow.
A huge battery bank, say big enough to run an air conditioner overnight, on a 
C with a stock charging system would work one night and then you would need 
to motor about 8-10 hours if you wanted to do it again.
Joe
Coquina

From: Dreuge via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 12:06 PM
To: Richard Bush 
Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Dreuge 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter

Richard,

My point is that one should not size an inverter relative a battery, but size 
it to ones expected needs.Folks often mix up or misuse terminology.If 
the maximum power consumed from an electric coffee pot is 1000 Watts.  Then one 
would need at least a 1kW inverter, but should get something larger to avoid 
maxing the operating limits.   Now the question is what battery can provide a 
constant 1000W for the 5 minutes to brew coffee.  Of course battery needs are 
greater than brewing coffee and an energy audit would give a better estimate, 
but for the sake of simplicity, let’s only consider coffee needs.

 For a 12V battery system (12.5V lead acid), the 1000W of power (P = voltage* 
current) is  provided by a battery current of 1000W/12.5V = 80A.  So one would 
need a battery that can provide 80A of current for 5 minutes.  A single 100A*hr 
lead acid type battery would be a poor choice as it would end up nearly 
depleted.   Relative to a 100 A*hr LiFePO4 battery, the LiFePO4 battery would 
brew about 10 times more coffee!




-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


On Oct 18, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Richard Bush 
mailto:bushma...@aol.com>> wrote:

Paul, If I understand your point, it is that we shouldn't be relying on battery 
power for any appliances or coffee pots...etc.; is there any alternative that 
doesn't involve solar? thanks!

Richard
1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584:
Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220
(502) 584-7255


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 07:12:19 AM EDT, Dreuge via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Hi Chuck,

First off,  12V * 100 A*hr = 1200 W*hr.  But keep in mind that A*hr battery 
ratings for a 100 A*hr battery is tested typical at 5 amps(or 0.05C).  That is 
your 100 A*hr is 5A * 20hr. At this rate the battery is only providing 12.5V * 
5A = 63 Watts.At higher current loads, your effective battery capacity will 
be much much less  due to Peuket Effect losses.   In fact, a 100 A*hr rated 
lead-acid battery at 100 amp load would only provide about 20 A*hr of 
energy(and lots of

Stus-List Re: Wet Vac

We recently had a situation here where a guy was using the wet vac to clean up 
gasoline...guess what happened...he's in the hospital with 2nd degree burns and 
in an induced comathe boat was destroyed.  Why would someone do that, you 
ask? He was a life long sailor who had just purchased his first power boat, a 
43 ft cruiser!

Richard
1985 C 37 CB: Out for repairs...
Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, 
Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255
 

On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 12:33:00 PM EDT, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Agree re wet vac.  Best tool for removing fouled bilge water if you have a 
crankcase oil spill. Just remember to remove the filter when you use as a wet 
vac.
Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:56:45 AM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Stus-List Wet Vac I think I've stated before that my all-time favorite 
tool out of all my battery tools and corded tools is a small cordedwet/vac.  It 
has a small, all plastic tank and large and strong motor.  I took off the 
castors and glued a piece of carpet to the bottom, so it dosn't scratch the 
varnished sole, or the paint on deck.  I think it has a five gallon tank and a 
5hp motor and an 18 ft long 1 1/2" hose, so it can really reach everywhere in 
the boat.  I keep it in a dock box and use it all the time and lend it out to 
others.  I'd love to have it mounted aboard, but my boat is just too small.  
Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, AnnapolisPlease show your appreciation 
for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  
Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu  Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

2023-10-18 Thread Andrew Burton via CnC-List

Will do. Where are going to be? I usually stay in St G but may go around to RBYC this time. Andrew Burton26 Beacon HillNewport, RI USA 02840+401 965 5260https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/On Oct 18, 2023, at 14:05, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote:We will be there until about the 10th. Let me know when you get there. Joel On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 1:23 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List  wrote:How long will you stay in Bermuda, Joel? I’m hoping to get out of Newport on the 31st and head there.Andrew Burton26 Beacon HillNewport, RI USA    02840http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/+401 965-5260On Oct 18, 2023, at 12:39, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote:Sounds like fun!We are planning to leave for Bermuda Monday.  After a stop over, we head to the Carib for the winter before returning to Bermuda in April to hopefully stage a Med crossing mid May.JoelHylas 49Rule OneFormer owner The Office C 35/3On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 12:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  wrote:

  
   
 
 
  
   That's inspiring.  
   
  
    
   
  
   I am considering racing to Baltimore this Saturday, but the weather looks shitty;  winds on the nose, 14 to 25 knots, and rainy, temps 57 to 65 for a four to five hour long race.  I'll probably work inside the cabin on projects and daysail if the sun comes out.
   
  
    
   
  
   Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, near Annapolis
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
   
   
On 10/18/2023 11:16 AM EDT Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

   
 

   
 

   
Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is: 

  
 

 Gulfport, MS
 

 Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
 

 Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
 

 Navarre Beach, FL
 

 Pensacola area for 2-4 days
 

 Head home
 
 
 
   
  -- 
  
  
  
   Dennis C. 
   
Touche' 35-1 #83

   
Mandeville, LA

   
  
 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
   Thanks for your help.
   Stu
  
 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu-- Joel 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayThanks for your help.StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayThanks for your help.StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

Very helpful.
 
What is the proper math to determine battery bank size needed to run our AC 
unit for twelve hours?  I know a softstart would make it possible, and the 
rated amp draw is 12.5 amps at 120vac.   I'm considering getting a lithium 200 
ah and keeping a 100 ah AGM as a start battery.Solar panels are being 
considered also.
 
 
 
Thanks,
Chuck
 
 

> On 10/18/2023 12:50 PM EDT Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
>  
>  
> 
> If it helps, think of the inverter as a special kind of extension cord. It 
> passes power from Point A to Point B. It does not create or store power. It 
> needs to be bigger than the expected load put on it.
> 
> The batteries need to be up to the task, but they do not create any power, 
> they store it. If you want to use a lot of power, you have to generate a lot 
> of power somehow.
> 
> A huge battery bank, say big enough to run an air conditioner overnight, on a 
> C with a stock charging system would work one night and then you would need 
> to motor about 8-10 hours if you wanted to do it again.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Coquina
> 
>  
> 
> From: Dreuge via CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 12:06 PM
> To: Richard Bush 
> Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Dreuge 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter
> 
>  
> 
> Richard,
> 
>  
> 
> My point is that one should not size an inverter relative a battery, but size 
> it to ones expected needs.Folks often mix up or misuse terminology.If 
> the maximum power consumed from an electric coffee pot is 1000 Watts.  Then 
> one would need at least a 1kW inverter, but should get something larger to 
> avoid maxing the operating limits.   Now the question is what battery can 
> provide a constant 1000W for the 5 minutes to brew coffee.  Of course battery 
> needs are greater than brewing coffee and an energy audit would give a better 
> estimate, but for the sake of simplicity, let’s only consider coffee needs.
> 
>  
> 
>  For a 12V battery system (12.5V lead acid), the 1000W of power (P = voltage* 
> current) is  provided by a battery current of 1000W/12.5V = 80A.  So one 
> would need a battery that can provide 80A of current for 5 minutes.  A single 
> 100A*hr lead acid type battery would be a poor choice as it would end up 
> nearly depleted.   Relative to a 100 A*hr LiFePO4 battery, the LiFePO4 
> battery would brew about 10 times more coffee! 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -
> Paul E.
> 
> 1981 C Landfall 38 
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Fort Walton Beach, FL
> 
>  
> 
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > On Oct 18, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Richard Bush  > mailto:bushma...@aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Paul, If I understand your point, it is that we shouldn't be relying on 
> > battery power for any appliances or coffee pots...etc.; is there any 
> > alternative that doesn't involve solar? thanks!
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> > 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584: 
> > 
> > Richard N. Bush Law Offices
> > 
> > 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> > 
> > Louisville, Kentucky 40220
> > 
> > (502) 584-7255
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 07:12:19 AM EDT, Dreuge via CnC-List 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Hi Chuck,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > First off,  12V * 100 A*hr = 1200 W*hr.  But keep in mind that A*hr battery 
> > ratings for a 100 A*hr battery is tested typical at 5 amps(or 0.05C).  That 
> > is your 100 A*hr is 5A * 20hr. At this rate the battery is only providing 
> > 12.5V * 5A = 63 Watts.At higher current loads, your effective battery 
> > capacity will be much much less  due to Peuket Effect losses.   In fact, a 
> > 100 A*hr rated lead-acid battery at 100 amp load would only provide about 
> > 20 A*hr of energy(and lots of heat).  To add to the insult, lead acid based 
> > batteries like AGM should not be depleted below 50% capacity to limit 
> > damage, so reserving 1 battery for start leaves only 50 A*hr for your house 
> > bank at loads of about 5 amps.At a 20A load, the 100 A*hr (50 A*hr 
> > effective) only provides 60 A*hr (30 A*hr effective).  That’s about 30 A*hr 
> > / 20A = 1.5 hrs of use.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > A 1000 W inverter could draw a max of 1000W / 12.5V = 80 Amps (but likely 
> > higher due to a voltage drop).  This would drain your battery in 6 - 10 
> > minutes.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I gave a talk to some local Hams about Solar Off-Grid Systems.  I posted 
> > the slides on my blog (see link below).On slides 5 & 6, I discuss 
> > battery discharge capacity and bank sizes.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/10/solar-off-grid-system.html
> 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  On Johanna Rose, I have a 2000W inverter charger.  When I run my 
> > microwave, it draws about 100A from a 560 A*hr  LiFePO4 battery.   Like 
> > Dennis, I have my inverter connected to my panel powering all AC loads 
> > except for my A/C unit and water heater.

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

We will be there until about the 10th. Let me know when you get there.

Joel

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 1:23 PM Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> How long will you stay in Bermuda, Joel? I’m hoping to get out of Newport
> on the 31st and head there.
>
> Andrew Burton
> 26 Beacon Hill
> 
> Newport, RI
> 
>
> USA
> 
>  02840
> 
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
> On Oct 18, 2023, at 12:39, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Sounds like fun!
>
> We are planning to leave for Bermuda Monday.  After a stop over, we head
> to the Carib for the winter before returning to Bermuda in April to
> hopefully stage a Med crossing mid May.
>
> Joel
> Hylas 49
> Rule One
> Former owner The Office C 35/3
>
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 12:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> That's inspiring.
>>
>> I am considering racing to Baltimore this Saturday, but the weather looks
>> shitty;  winds on the nose, 14 to 25 knots, and rainy, temps 57 to 65 for a
>> four to five hour long race.  I'll probably work inside the cabin on
>> projects and daysail if the sun comes out.
>>
>> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, near Annapolis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/18/2023 11:16 AM EDT Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and
>> back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is:
>>
>> Gulfport, MS
>> Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
>> Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
>> Navarre Beach, FL
>> Pensacola area for 2-4 days
>> Head home
>>
>> --
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
>> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks for your help.
>> Stu
>>
>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
>> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks for your help.
>> Stu
>
>
>
> --
> Joel
>
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
>
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: winter storage

I haul out in August, so I guess I need not worry 

From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 1:59 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: winter storage

But in Maryland, you don’t have real winter (). I think that any issues with 
tightening/loosening the shrouds starts making any difference when you have 
longer periods of low temperatures (-20 °C/ below 0 °F). So, this would only 
apply to Canada in-shore and Mid-West in the US. Along the coasts, even in 
Canada or Alaska, it does not get cold enough to worry about that issue.

Marek
Ottawa, ON
(already on the hard with the mast down)

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:45 PM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: winter storage

In Maryland most boats are hauled mast up if they get hauled at all and I have 
never heard of anyone doing anything to the rigging.
FYI
YMMV
Joe
Coquina

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:19 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: winter storage

Re mast up.  A friend stored his C 33-2 with mast up and it blew over in a 
winter storm.  He now has no mast.

With mast down possibly the reduced windage would have prevented the boat from 
blowing over but certainly would have not resulted in a mast broken in three 
areas.  The boat was on a cradle.

Food for thought

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:45 AM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Bob Mann mailto:sailrm...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter? Bob Mann Mystic ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ 
‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?

Bob Mann
Mystic
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

But in Maryland, you don’t have real winter (). I think that any issues with 
tightening/loosening the shrouds starts making any difference when you have 
longer periods of low temperatures (-20 °C/ below 0 °F). So, this would only 
apply to Canada in-shore and Mid-West in the US. Along the coasts, even in 
Canada or Alaska, it does not get cold enough to worry about that issue.

Marek
Ottawa, ON
(already on the hard with the mast down)



From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:45 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: winter storage

In Maryland most boats are hauled mast up if they get hauled at all and I have 
never heard of anyone doing anything to the rigging.
FYI
YMMV
Joe
Coquina

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:19 AM
To: 'Stus-List' mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: winter storage

Re mast up.  A friend stored his C 33-2 with mast up and it blew over in a 
winter storm.  He now has no mast.

With mast down possibly the reduced windage would have prevented the boat from 
blowing over but certainly would have not resulted in a mast broken in three 
areas.  The boat was on a cradle.

Food for thought

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:45 AM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Bob Mann mailto:sailrm...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter? Bob Mann Mystic ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ 
‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?

Bob Mann
Mystic
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

Dennis, that sounds great! I envy you!

Richard
1985 C 37 CB; out for repairs
Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, 
Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255
 

On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 11:32:57 AM EDT, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and back. 
 Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is:
Gulfport, MSPelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, ALBig Lagoon near 
Pensacola, FLNavarre Beach, FLPensacola area for 2-4 daysHead home
-- 
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LAPlease show your appreciation for this 
list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a 
contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu  Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

2023-10-18 Thread Andrew Burton via CnC-List

How long will you stay in Bermuda, Joel? I’m hoping to get out of Newport on the 31st and head there.Andrew Burton26 Beacon HillNewport, RI USA    02840http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/+401 965-5260On Oct 18, 2023, at 12:39, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote:Sounds like fun!We are planning to leave for Bermuda Monday.  After a stop over, we head to the Carib for the winter before returning to Bermuda in April to hopefully stage a Med crossing mid May.JoelHylas 49Rule OneFormer owner The Office C 35/3On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 12:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  wrote:

  
   
 
 
  
   That's inspiring.  
   
  
    
   
  
   I am considering racing to Baltimore this Saturday, but the weather looks shitty;  winds on the nose, 14 to 25 knots, and rainy, temps 57 to 65 for a four to five hour long race.  I'll probably work inside the cabin on projects and daysail if the sun comes out.
   
  
    
   
  
   Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, near Annapolis
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
  
    
   
   
   
On 10/18/2023 11:16 AM EDT Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:

   
 

   
 

   
Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is: 

  
 

 Gulfport, MS
 

 Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
 

 Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
 

 Navarre Beach, FL
 

 Pensacola area for 2-4 days
 

 Head home
 
 
 
   
  -- 
  
  
  
   Dennis C. 
   
Touche' 35-1 #83

   
Mandeville, LA

   
  
 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
   Thanks for your help.
   Stu
  
 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu-- Joel 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:https://www.paypal.me/stumurrayThanks for your help.StuPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

If it helps, think of the inverter as a special kind of extension cord. It 
passes power from Point A to Point B. It does not create or store power. It 
needs to be bigger than the expected load put on it.
The batteries need to be up to the task, but they do not create any power, they 
store it. If you want to use a lot of power, you have to generate a lot of 
power somehow.
A huge battery bank, say big enough to run an air conditioner overnight, on a 
C with a stock charging system would work one night and then you would need 
to motor about 8-10 hours if you wanted to do it again.
Joe
Coquina

From: Dreuge via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 12:06 PM
To: Richard Bush 
Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Dreuge 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter

Richard,

My point is that one should not size an inverter relative a battery, but size 
it to ones expected needs.Folks often mix up or misuse terminology.If 
the maximum power consumed from an electric coffee pot is 1000 Watts.  Then one 
would need at least a 1kW inverter, but should get something larger to avoid 
maxing the operating limits.   Now the question is what battery can provide a 
constant 1000W for the 5 minutes to brew coffee.  Of course battery needs are 
greater than brewing coffee and an energy audit would give a better estimate, 
but for the sake of simplicity, let’s only consider coffee needs.

 For a 12V battery system (12.5V lead acid), the 1000W of power (P = voltage* 
current) is  provided by a battery current of 1000W/12.5V = 80A.  So one would 
need a battery that can provide 80A of current for 5 minutes.  A single 100A*hr 
lead acid type battery would be a poor choice as it would end up nearly 
depleted.   Relative to a 100 A*hr LiFePO4 battery, the LiFePO4 battery would 
brew about 10 times more coffee!




-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


On Oct 18, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Richard Bush 
mailto:bushma...@aol.com>> wrote:

Paul, If I understand your point, it is that we shouldn't be relying on battery 
power for any appliances or coffee pots...etc.; is there any alternative that 
doesn't involve solar? thanks!

Richard
1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584:
Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220
(502) 584-7255


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 07:12:19 AM EDT, Dreuge via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Hi Chuck,

First off,  12V * 100 A*hr = 1200 W*hr.  But keep in mind that A*hr battery 
ratings for a 100 A*hr battery is tested typical at 5 amps(or 0.05C).  That is 
your 100 A*hr is 5A * 20hr. At this rate the battery is only providing 12.5V * 
5A = 63 Watts.At higher current loads, your effective battery capacity will 
be much much less  due to Peuket Effect losses.   In fact, a 100 A*hr rated 
lead-acid battery at 100 amp load would only provide about 20 A*hr of 
energy(and lots of heat).  To add to the insult, lead acid based batteries like 
AGM should not be depleted below 50% capacity to limit damage, so reserving 1 
battery for start leaves only 50 A*hr for your house bank at loads of about 5 
amps.At a 20A load, the 100 A*hr (50 A*hr effective) only provides 60 A*hr 
(30 A*hr effective).  That’s about 30 A*hr / 20A = 1.5 hrs of use.

A 1000 W inverter could draw a max of 1000W / 12.5V = 80 Amps (but likely 
higher due to a voltage drop).  This would drain your battery in 6 - 10 minutes.

I gave a talk to some local Hams about Solar Off-Grid Systems.  I posted the 
slides on my blog (see link below).On slides 5 & 6, I discuss battery 
discharge capacity and bank sizes.




https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/10/solar-off-grid-system.html


 On Johanna Rose, I have a 2000W inverter charger.  When I run my microwave, it 
draws about 100A from a 560 A*hr  LiFePO4 battery.   Like Dennis, I have my 
inverter connected to my panel powering all AC loads except for my A/C unit and 
water heater.   The inverter has a built in transfer switch which automatically 
(and smoothly) transfers to shore power when available.

-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


On Oct 17, 2023, at 7:27 PM,  via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

OK, an DC/AC Pure Sine Wave inverter looks attractive

I've heard some boats have 1000 watt, some 2000watt and some 3000 or more.
What size inverter is right for a boat equipped with two 100Ah AGM batteries?
One battery provides 12v x 100ah: 1200watts.  My system can provide 2400 watts 
but I usually reserve one battery to restart the engine and run on the other 
battery.  Does the inverter get fed from a bus common to both batteries, or to 
the selector switch marked, "Off, 1, both, 2"?

Thanks,
Chuck S


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: winter storage

In Maryland most boats are hauled mast up if they get hauled at all and I have 
never heard of anyone doing anything to the rigging.
FYI
YMMV
Joe
Coquina

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:19 AM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: winter storage

Re mast up.  A friend stored his C 33-2 with mast up and it blew over in a 
winter storm.  He now has no mast.

With mast down possibly the reduced windage would have prevented the boat from 
blowing over but certainly would have not resulted in a mast broken in three 
areas.  The boat was on a cradle.

Food for thought

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:45 AM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Bob Mann mailto:sailrm...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter? Bob Mann Mystic ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ 
‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?

Bob Mann
Mystic
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

Sounds like fun!

We are planning to leave for Bermuda Monday.  After a stop over, we head to
the Carib for the winter before returning to Bermuda in April to hopefully
stage a Med crossing mid May.

Joel
Hylas 49
Rule One
Former owner The Office C 35/3

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 12:17 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> That's inspiring.
>
> I am considering racing to Baltimore this Saturday, but the weather looks
> shitty;  winds on the nose, 14 to 25 knots, and rainy, temps 57 to 65 for a
> four to five hour long race.  I'll probably work inside the cabin on
> projects and daysail if the sun comes out.
>
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, near Annapolis
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/18/2023 11:16 AM EDT Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and
> back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is:
>
> Gulfport, MS
> Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
> Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
> Navarre Beach, FL
> Pensacola area for 2-4 days
> Head home
>
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
>
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu



-- 
Joel
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Cruising Gulf Coast

That's inspiring. 
 
I am considering racing to Baltimore this Saturday, but the weather looks 
shitty;  winds on the nose, 14 to 25 knots, and rainy, temps 57 to 65 for a 
four to five hour long race.  I'll probably work inside the cabin on projects 
and daysail if the sun comes out.
 
Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Magothy River, near Annapolis
 
 
 
 

> On 10/18/2023 11:16 AM EDT Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and 
> back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is:
>  
> Gulfport, MS
> Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
> Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
> Navarre Beach, FL
> Pensacola area for 2-4 days
> Head home
>  
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter

2023-10-18 Thread Dreuge via CnC-List

Richard,

My point is that one should not size an inverter relative a battery, but size 
it to ones expected needs.Folks often mix up or misuse terminology.If 
the maximum power consumed from an electric coffee pot is 1000 Watts.  Then one 
would need at least a 1kW inverter, but should get something larger to avoid 
maxing the operating limits.   Now the question is what battery can provide a 
constant 1000W for the 5 minutes to brew coffee.  Of course battery needs are 
greater than brewing coffee and an energy audit would give a better estimate, 
but for the sake of simplicity, let’s only consider coffee needs.

 For a 12V battery system (12.5V lead acid), the 1000W of power (P = voltage* 
current) is  provided by a battery current of 1000W/12.5V = 80A.  So one would 
need a battery that can provide 80A of current for 5 minutes.  A single 100A*hr 
lead acid type battery would be a poor choice as it would end up nearly 
depleted.   Relative to a 100 A*hr LiFePO4 battery, the LiFePO4 battery would 
brew about 10 times more coffee! 




-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Oct 18, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Richard Bush  wrote:
> 
> Paul, If I understand your point, it is that we shouldn't be relying on 
> battery power for any appliances or coffee pots...etc.; is there any 
> alternative that doesn't involve solar? thanks!
> 
> Richard
> 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584: 
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220
> (502) 584-7255
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 07:12:19 AM EDT, Dreuge via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Chuck,
> 
> First off,  12V * 100 A*hr = 1200 W*hr.  But keep in mind that A*hr battery 
> ratings for a 100 A*hr battery is tested typical at 5 amps(or 0.05C).  That 
> is your 100 A*hr is 5A * 20hr. At this rate the battery is only providing 
> 12.5V * 5A = 63 Watts.At higher current loads, your effective battery 
> capacity will be much much less  due to Peuket Effect losses.   In fact, a 
> 100 A*hr rated lead-acid battery at 100 amp load would only provide about 20 
> A*hr of energy(and lots of heat).  To add to the insult, lead acid based 
> batteries like AGM should not be depleted below 50% capacity to limit damage, 
> so reserving 1 battery for start leaves only 50 A*hr for your house bank at 
> loads of about 5 amps.At a 20A load, the 100 A*hr (50 A*hr effective) 
> only provides 60 A*hr (30 A*hr effective).  That’s about 30 A*hr / 20A = 1.5 
> hrs of use.
> 
> A 1000 W inverter could draw a max of 1000W / 12.5V = 80 Amps (but likely 
> higher due to a voltage drop).  This would drain your battery in 6 - 10 
> minutes.
> 
> I gave a talk to some local Hams about Solar Off-Grid Systems.  I posted the 
> slides on my blog (see link below).On slides 5 & 6, I discuss battery 
> discharge capacity and bank sizes.
> 
> 
> 
https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/10/solar-off-grid-system.html
> 
> 
> 
>  On Johanna Rose, I have a 2000W inverter charger.  When I run my microwave, 
> it draws about 100A from a 560 A*hr  LiFePO4 battery.   Like Dennis, I have 
> my inverter connected to my panel powering all AC loads except for my A/C 
> unit and water heater.   The inverter has a built in transfer switch which 
> automatically (and smoothly) transfers to shore power when available. 
> 
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C Landfall 38 
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Fort Walton Beach, FL
> 
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2023, at 7:27 PM,  via CnC-List  wrote:
>> 
> 
> OK, an DC/AC Pure Sine Wave inverter looks attractive  
>  
> I've heard some boats have 1000 watt, some 2000watt and some 3000 or more.
> What size inverter is right for a boat equipped with two 100Ah AGM batteries? 
>  
> One battery provides 12v x 100ah: 1200watts.  My system can provide 2400 
> watts but I usually reserve one battery to restart the engine and run on the 
> other battery.  Does the inverter get fed from a bus common to both 
> batteries, or to the selector switch marked, "Off, 1, both, 2"? 
>  
> Thanks,
> Chuck S   
>  
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Cruising Gulf Coast

2023-10-18 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List

Getting underway in the morning for 11 days of cruising to Pensacola and
back.  Weather looks good.  Initial itinerary is:

Gulfport, MS
Pelican Cove on south side of Dauphin Island, AL
Big Lagoon near Pensacola, FL
Navarre Beach, FL
Pensacola area for 2-4 days
Head home

-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wet Vac

2023-10-18 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List

I bring a small wet vac from home for "big" jobs or wet jobs.  However, I
keep a 12 VDC car vac with cigarette lighter plug on board for use underway.

-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List

Re mast up.  A friend stored his C 33-2 with mast up and it blew over in a 
winter storm.  He now has no mast.

With mast down possibly the reduced windage would have prevented the boat from 
blowing over but certainly would have not resulted in a mast broken in three 
areas.  The boat was on a cradle.

Food for thought

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:45 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bob Mann 
Subject: Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April. For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter? Bob Mann Mystic ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ 
‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?

Bob Mann
Mystic
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

Good question.  Should you loosen the rig for winter storage?
I've been advised to leave the rig tension alone unless you cranked it up to 
banjo tight and can play tunes on it.  If you tensioned the rig for racing, you 
might want to remove any excessive tension, a turn, but unless it's bar tight, 
live it alone.  The reason given is that the aluminum mast will shrink more 
than the stainless rod during the colder temperatures.  
 
Chuck S
 
 

> On 10/18/2023 9:49 AM EDT Korbey Hunt via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> I keep my boat in Ketchikan Alaska all winter with a dehumidifier running.  I 
> remive the foresail and store in the cabin, cover main.   I have not adjusted 
> rigging.  I'm interested in seeing replys to this topic.
>  
> Get Outlook for Android https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
> 
> -
> From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:45:04 AM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: Bob Mann 
> Subject: Stus-List winter storage
>  
> Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
> store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do 
> you loosen the shrouds for the winter?
>  
> Bob Mann
> Mystic
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Wet Vac

Agree re wet vac.  Best tool for removing fouled bilge water if you have a 
crankcase oil spill. Just remember to remove the filter when you use as a wet 
vac.

Get Outlook for Android

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:56:45 AM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Stus-List Wet Vac

I think I've stated before that my all-time favorite tool out of all my battery 
tools and corded tools is a small corded wet/vac.  It has a small, all plastic 
tank and large and strong motor.  I took off the castors and glued a piece of 
carpet to the bottom, so it dosn't scratch the varnished sole, or the paint on 
deck.  I think it has a five gallon tank and a 5hp motor and an 18 ft long 1 
1/2" hose, so it can really reach everywhere in the boat.  I keep it in a dock 
box and use it all the time and lend it out to others.  I'd love to have it 
mounted aboard, but my boat is just too small.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, Annapolis
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List

Leave it. I assume you are concerned about creep of the rods? If so, any metal 
creep under load occurs in the very early stages. Regardless, the at rest load 
on the rigging is not at a level to cause any measurable creep
Jeff Laman
81 C
Ludington, Mi

Get Outlook for Android

From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 7:45:04 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bob Mann 
Subject: Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?

Bob Mann
Mystic
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter

I recommend you size your inverter at 2x anticipated load.  Also, if you use a 
lithium battery the internal BMS output may limit draw.  My 200 ah lithium has 
a 100 ah limiter, do max output of inverter 100x 12 = 1,200 watts.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 3:31:05 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Cc: 'CHARLES SCHEAFFER' ; j...@dellabarba.com 

Subject: Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter

Inverters are sized to the expected loads.

Batteries are sized to how long you want to run those loads.

Example: My wife’s hair dryer on 500 watts is drawing about 50 amps. If she ran 
it for an hour that would be 50 amp/hours, which would be all you can use out 
of a 100AH battery. Thanks to Peukert’s equation, with lead acid batteries it 
is a little worse than that. (heavy loads draw them down faster than the 
formula, light loads a little less than the formula)

As for the switches, I don’t know how your boat is wired. My inverter runs off 
the house bank with its own switch.

BTW – your math is a bit off. A 100 amp hour battery can probably supply around 
500 amps or more, which is 6,000 watts. It can’t do it for very long though, 
but long enough to start an engine. Amps, amp-hours, watt-hours, and so on can 
get confusing.

I’ll post how to figure this out when I get a chance.

Joe

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 4:03 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Stus-List Sizing an inverter

OK, an DC/AC Pure Sine Wave inverter looks attractive

I've heard some boats have 1000 watt, some 2000watt and some 3000 or more.

What size inverter is right for a boat equipped with two 100Ah AGM batteries?

One battery provides 12v x 100ah: 1200watts.  My system can provide 2400 watts 
but I usually reserve one battery to restart the engine and run on the other 
battery.  Does the inverter get fed from a bus common to both batteries, or to 
the selector switch marked, "Off, 1, both, 2"?

Thanks,

Chuck S

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Wet Vac

I think I've stated before that my all-time favorite tool out of all my battery 
tools and corded tools is a small corded wet/vac.  It has a small, all plastic 
tank and large and strong motor.  I took off the castors and glued a piece of 
carpet to the bottom, so it dosn't scratch the varnished sole, or the paint on 
deck.  I think it has a five gallon tank and a 5hp motor and an 18 ft long 1 
1/2" hose, so it can really reach everywhere in the boat.  I keep it in a dock 
box and use it all the time and lend it out to others.  I'd love to have it 
mounted aboard, but my boat is just too small.
 
Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C 34R, AnnapolisPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I recommend a SS percolater., about $35 on Amazon.  Order the basket filters 
from Melita.  A good SS thermos will keep coffee warm but it is also easy to 
reheat.  Starbucks sells Via, quality single use instant packets about $1 each.

Get Outlook for Android

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:43:28 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe ; CHARLES SCHEAFFER 

Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

For me, coffee is a personal taste you get used to.
The french press flavor, is great, but too much to clean up for me.  (I'll have 
to check the newer model press suggested by Josh.)  I keep a $12) 12 cup 
electric Mr Coffee on the boat for when we have shorepower.  Bought during my 
refit while on the hard, I've had it for four years now.  For off grid, we boil 
water on the propane stove and use instant coffee.  There are some pretty good 
instant coffee's available now, but you have to try a few to find one you like. 
 We prefer the packets from Nescafe.  There are several blends.  It's great to 
boil water in the kettle and then have choices of coffee, tea, or hot chocolate.

I'm considering a stainless coffee perculator I can sit on the stovetop and 
brew 8 or 9 cups.  That would make four mugs of coffee and could be reheated in 
the same container.   I'd also like to have is a good carafe to keep it hot 
longer while underway.

Chuck S
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread Matt Wolford via CnC-List

In my experience, loosening results in more shaking.  I keep mine tensioned, 
including about 500 psi on the backstay.

From: Bob Mann via CnC-List  
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 9:45 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bob Mann 
Subject: Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter? 

Bob Mann 

Mystic 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

2023-10-18 Thread Jeff Nelson via CnC-List

With the stove top coffee perc, you need to grind coffee a little 
courser so you don't end up needing a spoon to drink it.  :-)


Our crews all use Contigo coffee mugs, different colour for each 
person.  They keep the coffee hot for hours, are super durable
and do not leak!  As a bonus, they can be used as a cocktail shaker 
after coffee time is well over.  :-)


Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

On 2023-10-18 10:43, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

For me, coffee is a personal taste you get used to.
The french press flavor, is great, but too much to clean up for me. 
(I'll have to check the newer model press suggested by Josh.) I keep a 
$12) 12 cup electric Mr Coffee on the boat for when we have 
shorepower.  Bought during my refit while on the hard, I've had it for 
four years now.  For off grid, we boil water on the propane stove and 
use instant coffee.  There are some pretty good instant coffee's 
available now, but you have to try a few to find one you like.  We 
prefer the packets from Nescafe.  There are several blends.  It's 
great to boil water in the kettle and then have choices of coffee, 
tea, or hot chocolate.
I'm considering a stainless coffee perculator I can sit on the 
stovetop and brew 8 or 9 cups.  That would make four mugs of coffee 
and could be reheated in the same container.  I'd also like to have is 
a good carafe to keep it hot longer while underway.

Chuck S

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: winter storage

I keep my boat in Ketchikan Alaska all winter with a dehumidifier running.  I 
remive the foresail and store in the cabin, cover main.   I have not adjusted 
rigging.  I'm interested in seeing replys to this topic.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Bob Mann via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:45:04 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Bob Mann 
Subject: Stus-List winter storage

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?

Bob Mann
Mystic
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I also have a stove top espresso maker.  $35 on Amazon.  Starbucks Verona roast 
works well or for esspresso.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Jeff Nelson via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:41:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jeff Nelson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I also use stove top perc.  Love the smell of coffee brewing in the am.  I use 
a big hand grinder/mill so it only takes a few moments to
grind a batch.  Beans come from beanville (Halifax, NS) usually as they are 
handy and the people there are great.

I've only had one problem with the stove top percone of the crew threw the 
basket overboard in an over zealous cleaning moment.

I've been thinking of getting an espresso type...but the perc works good enough 
for me and crew has never complained...

Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

On 2023-10-18 10:35, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List wrote:
I use a stove top percolator with a disc filter at the bottom of the basket.  
It heats the cabin nicely in the am.  I use a variety of beans.  One of the 
best is Vita coffee, a Seattle roaster.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:11:17 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; 
Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I use Rise Up beans from a local roaster in Easton, a Bosch electric grinder, 
and a French press.

Joe

Coquina

From: Richard Bush via CnC-List 

Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 8:59 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; 
Richard Bush 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I agree with Chuck, this is a great conversation and deserves its own heading 
and link! I've learned more about coffee here than I ever knew...we use a 
Walmart 4 cup electric drip coffee maker, and thought we were being cool! Ha!

Richard

1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584

Richard N. Bush Law Offices

2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine

Louisville, Kentucky 40220

(502) 584-7255

On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 05:39:17 PM EDT, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I appreciate all the responses but it might be better to capture your great 
coffee making ideas under a proper subject title so future coffee nerds can 
find them.

Chuck S

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List winter storage

2023-10-18 Thread Bob Mann via CnC-List

Here in Michigan it's time to winterize our boats until April.  For those who 
store their boat with the mast up, do you leave shroud tension alone or do you 
loosen the shrouds for the winter?
 
Bob Mann
MysticPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

For me, coffee is a personal taste you get used to.
The french press flavor, is great, but too much to clean up for me.  (I'll have 
to check the newer model press suggested by Josh.)  I keep a $12) 12 cup 
electric Mr Coffee on the boat for when we have shorepower.  Bought during my 
refit while on the hard, I've had it for four years now.  For off grid, we boil 
water on the propane stove and use instant coffee.  There are some pretty good 
instant coffee's available now, but you have to try a few to find one you like. 
 We prefer the packets from Nescafe.  There are several blends.  It's great to 
boil water in the kettle and then have choices of coffee, tea, or hot chocolate.
 
I'm considering a stainless coffee perculator I can sit on the stovetop and 
brew 8 or 9 cups.  That would make four mugs of coffee and could be reheated in 
the same container.   I'd also like to have is a good carafe to keep it hot 
longer while underway.
 
Chuck SPlease show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

We have an old fashioned electric percolater we run off the inverter.  It
draws abut 75 amps for 3-4 minutes, so not much worse than the hair dryer.

Joel

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 9:10 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You can, you just have to think it through.
>
> My wife can dry her hair, that draws about 50 amps for 5 minutes or so. I
> can’t run my cabin heater at 500 or 1000 watts off the battery, it would
> run the battery dead before the boat got very warm. Given most of our C
> were designed to be relatively light boats without huge battery banks, we
> are mostly a poor fit for trying to use high-draw AC house appliances
> running off of batteries. I use an AC vacuum and an AC coffee grinder, but
> I don’t try and use an electric coffee pot. Using the stove is far more
> efficient as far as turning fuel into hot water.
>
> What is it you want to run on the boat?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Richard Bush via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2023 8:56 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Richard Bush 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter
>
>
>
> Paul, If I understand your point, it is that we shouldn't be relying on
> battery power for any appliances or coffee pots...etc.; is there any
> alternative that doesn't involve solar? thanks!
>
>
>
> Richard
>
> 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584:
>
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
>
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220
>
> (502) 584-7255
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 07:12:19 AM EDT, Dreuge via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
>
>
> First off,  12V * 100 A*hr = 1200 W*hr.  But keep in mind that A*hr
> battery ratings for a 100 A*hr battery is tested typical at 5 amps(or
> 0.05C).  That is your 100 A*hr is 5A * 20hr. At this rate the battery is
> only providing 12.5V * 5A = 63 Watts.At higher current loads, your
> effective battery capacity will be much much less  due to Peuket Effect
> losses.   In fact, a 100 A*hr rated lead-acid battery at 100 amp load would
> only provide about 20 A*hr of energy(and lots of heat).  To add to the
> insult, lead acid based batteries like AGM should not be depleted below
> 50% capacity to limit damage, so reserving 1 battery for start leaves only
> 50 A*hr for your house bank at loads of about 5 amps.At a 20A load, the
> 100 A*hr (50 A*hr effective) only provides 60 A*hr (30 A*hr effective).
> That’s about 30 A*hr / 20A = 1.5 hrs of use.
>
>
>
> A 1000 W inverter could draw a max of 1000W / 12.5V = 80 Amps (but likely
> higher due to a voltage drop).  This would drain your battery in 6 - 10
> minutes.
>
>
>
> I gave a talk to some local Hams about Solar Off-Grid Systems.  I posted
> the slides on my blog (see link below).On slides 5 & 6, I discuss
> battery discharge capacity and bank sizes.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/10/solar-off-grid-system.html
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Johanna Rose, I have a 2000W inverter charger.  When I run my
> microwave, it draws about 100A from a 560 A*hr  LiFePO4 battery.   Like
> Dennis, I have my inverter connected to my panel powering all AC loads
> except for my A/C unit and water heater.   The inverter has a built in
> transfer switch which automatically (and smoothly) transfers to shore power
> when available.
>
>
>
> -
> Paul E.
>
> 1981 C Landfall 38
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Fort Walton Beach, FL
>
>
>
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> On Oct 17, 2023, at 7:27 PM,  via CnC-List  wrote:
>
>
>
> OK, an DC/AC Pure Sine Wave inverter looks attractive
>
>
>
> I've heard some boats have 1000 watt, some 2000watt and some 3000 or more.
>
> What size inverter is right for a boat equipped with two 100Ah AGM
> batteries?
>
> One battery provides 12v x 100ah: 1200watts.  My system can provide 2400
> watts but I usually reserve one battery to restart the engine and run on
> the other battery.  Does the inverter get fed from a bus common to both
> batteries, or to the selector switch marked, "Off, 1, both, 2"?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chuck S
>
>
>
>
>
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and
> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
>


-- 
Joel
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

2023-10-18 Thread Jeff Nelson via CnC-List

I also use stove top perc.  Love the smell of coffee brewing in the am.  
I use a big hand grinder/mill so it only takes a few moments to
grind a batch.  Beans come from beanville (Halifax, NS) usually as they 
are handy and the people there are great.


I've only had one problem with the stove top percone of the crew 
threw the basket overboard in an over zealous cleaning moment.


I've been thinking of getting an espresso type...but the perc works good 
enough for me and crew has never complained...


Cheers,
  Jeff Nelson
  Muir Caileag
  C 30 - 549
  Armdale Y.C.

On 2023-10-18 10:35, Korbey Hunt via CnC-List wrote:
I use a stove top percolator with a disc filter at the bottom of the 
basket.  It heats the cabin nicely in the am.  I use a variety of 
beans.  One of the best is Vita coffee, a Seattle roaster.


Get Outlook for Android 

*From:* Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:11:17 AM
*To:* Stus-List 
*Cc:* CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; Della Barba, Joe 

*Subject:* Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a 
boat


I use Rise Up beans from a local roaster in Easton, a Bosch electric 
grinder, and a French press.


Joe

Coquina

*From:* Richard Bush via CnC-List 
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2023 8:59 AM
*To:* Stus-List 
*Cc:* CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; Richard Bush 


*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I agree with Chuck, this is a great conversation and deserves its own 
heading and link! I've learned more about coffee here than I ever 
knew...we use a Walmart 4 cup electric drip coffee maker, and thought 
we were being cool! Ha!


Richard

1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584

Richard N. Bush Law Offices

2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine

Louisville, Kentucky 40220

(502) 584-7255

On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 05:39:17 PM EDT, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via 
CnC-List  wrote:


I appreciate all the responses but it might be better to capture your 
great coffee making ideas under a proper subject title so future 
coffee nerds can find them.


Chuck S

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site 
and help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:

https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I use a stove top percolator with a disc filter at the bottom of the basket.  
It heats the cabin nicely in the am.  I use a variety of beans.  One of the 
best is Vita coffee, a Seattle roaster.

Get Outlook for Android

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:11:17 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; Della Barba, Joe 

Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I use Rise Up beans from a local roaster in Easton, a Bosch electric grinder, 
and a French press.

Joe

Coquina

From: Richard Bush via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 8:59 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; Richard Bush 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I agree with Chuck, this is a great conversation and deserves its own heading 
and link! I've learned more about coffee here than I ever knew...we use a 
Walmart 4 cup electric drip coffee maker, and thought we were being cool! Ha!

Richard

1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584

Richard N. Bush Law Offices

2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine

Louisville, Kentucky 40220

(502) 584-7255

On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 05:39:17 PM EDT, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I appreciate all the responses but it might be better to capture your great 
coffee making ideas under a proper subject title so future coffee nerds can 
find them.

Chuck S

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

2023-10-18 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

Not about coffee, but…

There are now available vacuum cleaners that run off 18 V (20 V?) used for 
power tools (you can get a Dyson version, but then the whole discussion about 
saving costs is out to lunch). If you have a power tool on board, a vacuum like 
that can save your house battery a bit. I happen to have all my power tools 
from Ryobi, so I got a Ryobi version. Works well enough that I use it 
occasionally at home, as well.

Marek

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 3:10 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

You can, you just have to think it through.
My wife can dry her hair, that draws about 50 amps for 5 minutes or so. I can’t 
run my cabin heater at 500 or 1000 watts off the battery, it would run the 
battery dead before the boat got very warm. Given most of our C were 
designed to be relatively light boats without huge battery banks, we are mostly 
a poor fit for trying to use high-draw AC house appliances running off of 
batteries. I use an AC vacuum and an AC coffee grinder, but I don’t try and use 
an electric coffee pot. Using the stove is far more efficient as far as turning 
fuel into hot water.
What is it you want to run on the boat?


Joe Della Barba
Coquina


From: Richard Bush via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 8:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Richard Bush mailto:bushma...@aol.com>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter

Paul, If I understand your point, it is that we shouldn't be relying on battery 
power for any appliances or coffee pots...etc.; is there any alternative that 
doesn't involve solar? thanks!

Richard
1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584:
Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220
(502) 584-7255


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 07:12:19 AM EDT, Dreuge via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Hi Chuck,

First off,  12V * 100 A*hr = 1200 W*hr.  But keep in mind that A*hr battery 
ratings for a 100 A*hr battery is tested typical at 5 amps(or 0.05C).  That is 
your 100 A*hr is 5A * 20hr. At this rate the battery is only providing 12.5V * 
5A = 63 Watts.At higher current loads, your effective battery capacity will 
be much much less  due to Peuket Effect losses.   In fact, a 100 A*hr rated 
lead-acid battery at 100 amp load would only provide about 20 A*hr of 
energy(and lots of heat).  To add to the insult, lead acid based batteries like 
AGM should not be depleted below 50% capacity to limit damage, so reserving 1 
battery for start leaves only 50 A*hr for your house bank at loads of about 5 
amps.At a 20A load, the 100 A*hr (50 A*hr effective) only provides 60 A*hr 
(30 A*hr effective).  That’s about 30 A*hr / 20A = 1.5 hrs of use.

A 1000 W inverter could draw a max of 1000W / 12.5V = 80 Amps (but likely 
higher due to a voltage drop).  This would drain your battery in 6 - 10 minutes.

I gave a talk to some local Hams about Solar Off-Grid Systems.  I posted the 
slides on my blog (see link below).On slides 5 & 6, I discuss battery 
discharge capacity and bank sizes.


https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/10/solar-off-grid-system.html


 On Johanna Rose, I have a 2000W inverter charger.  When I run my microwave, it 
draws about 100A from a 560 A*hr  LiFePO4 battery.   Like Dennis, I have my 
inverter connected to my panel powering all AC loads except for my A/C unit and 
water heater.   The inverter has a built in transfer switch which automatically 
(and smoothly) transfers to shore power when available.

-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

On Oct 17, 2023, at 7:27 PM,  via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

OK, an DC/AC Pure Sine Wave inverter looks attractive

I've heard some boats have 1000 watt, some 2000watt and some 3000 or more.
What size inverter is right for a boat equipped with two 100Ah AGM batteries?
One battery provides 12v x 100ah: 1200watts.  My system can provide 2400 watts 
but I usually reserve one battery to restart the engine and run on the other 
battery.  Does the inverter get fed from a bus common to both batteries, or to 
the selector switch marked, "Off, 1, both, 2"?

Thanks,
Chuck S


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I use Rise Up beans from a local roaster in Easton, a Bosch electric grinder, 
and a French press.
Joe
Coquina

From: Richard Bush via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 8:59 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER ; Richard Bush 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: best coffee making setup on a boat

I agree with Chuck, this is a great conversation and deserves its own heading 
and link! I've learned more about coffee here than I ever knew...we use a 
Walmart 4 cup electric drip coffee maker, and thought we were being cool! Ha!

Richard
1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584

Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220
(502) 584-7255

On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 05:39:17 PM EDT, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I appreciate all the responses but it might be better to capture your great 
coffee making ideas under a proper subject title so future coffee nerds can 
find them.

Chuck S

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Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sizing an inverter

You can, you just have to think it through.
My wife can dry her hair, that draws about 50 amps for 5 minutes or so. I can’t 
run my cabin heater at 500 or 1000 watts off the battery, it would run the 
battery dead before the boat got very warm. Given most of our C were 
designed to be relatively light boats without huge battery banks, we are mostly 
a poor fit for trying to use high-draw AC house appliances running off of 
batteries. I use an AC vacuum and an AC coffee grinder, but I don’t try and use 
an electric coffee pot. Using the stove is far more efficient as far as turning 
fuel into hot water.
What is it you want to run on the boat?


Joe Della Barba
Coquina


From: Richard Bush via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 8:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Richard Bush 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter

Paul, If I understand your point, it is that we shouldn't be relying on battery 
power for any appliances or coffee pots...etc.; is there any alternative that 
doesn't involve solar? thanks!

Richard
1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584:
Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220
(502) 584-7255


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 07:12:19 AM EDT, Dreuge via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Hi Chuck,

First off,  12V * 100 A*hr = 1200 W*hr.  But keep in mind that A*hr battery 
ratings for a 100 A*hr battery is tested typical at 5 amps(or 0.05C).  That is 
your 100 A*hr is 5A * 20hr. At this rate the battery is only providing 12.5V * 
5A = 63 Watts.At higher current loads, your effective battery capacity will 
be much much less  due to Peuket Effect losses.   In fact, a 100 A*hr rated 
lead-acid battery at 100 amp load would only provide about 20 A*hr of 
energy(and lots of heat).  To add to the insult, lead acid based batteries like 
AGM should not be depleted below 50% capacity to limit damage, so reserving 1 
battery for start leaves only 50 A*hr for your house bank at loads of about 5 
amps.At a 20A load, the 100 A*hr (50 A*hr effective) only provides 60 A*hr 
(30 A*hr effective).  That’s about 30 A*hr / 20A = 1.5 hrs of use.

A 1000 W inverter could draw a max of 1000W / 12.5V = 80 Amps (but likely 
higher due to a voltage drop).  This would drain your battery in 6 - 10 minutes.

I gave a talk to some local Hams about Solar Off-Grid Systems.  I posted the 
slides on my blog (see link below).On slides 5 & 6, I discuss battery 
discharge capacity and bank sizes.


https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2021/10/solar-off-grid-system.html


 On Johanna Rose, I have a 2000W inverter charger.  When I run my microwave, it 
draws about 100A from a 560 A*hr  LiFePO4 battery.   Like Dennis, I have my 
inverter connected to my panel powering all AC loads except for my A/C unit and 
water heater.   The inverter has a built in transfer switch which automatically 
(and smoothly) transfers to shore power when available.

-
Paul E.
1981 C Landfall 38
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/


On Oct 17, 2023, at 7:27 PM,  via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

OK, an DC/AC Pure Sine Wave inverter looks attractive

I've heard some boats have 1000 watt, some 2000watt and some 3000 or more.
What size inverter is right for a boat equipped with two 100Ah AGM batteries?
One battery provides 12v x 100ah: 1200watts.  My system can provide 2400 watts 
but I usually reserve one battery to restart the engine and run on the other 
battery.  Does the inverter get fed from a bus common to both batteries, or to 
the selector switch marked, "Off, 1, both, 2"?

Thanks,
Chuck S


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: best coffee making setup on a boat


I agree with Chuck, this is a great conversation and deserves its own heading 
and link! I've learned more about coffee here than I ever knew...we use a 
Walmart 4 cup electric drip coffee maker, and thought we were being cool! Ha! 

Richard
1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584

Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, 
Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255
 

On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 05:39:17 PM EDT, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
   I appreciate all the responses but it might be better to capture your great 
coffee making ideas under a proper subject title so future coffee nerds can 
find them.     Chuck S  
 Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu  Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Sizing an inverter