subject:"\[slim\] Re\: New Slim Devices Product\? The Transporter per 6moons.com\?\?"


I think the SB's plus point was its low price and audioserver bang for
the buck given the features. If you start making it an audiophile
component from the get go though, the glaring problems with navigation,
etc start becoming exposed. The Wheel MAY address some of those issues,
but the encoder doesn't fully compensate for the lack of a 10-foot
display. 

I don't doubt the Transporter will work for some, but equally I think a
Mac Mini or a silenced MITX machine + RME Fireface 400 will give equally
good audio results combined with a higher degree of flexibility - for
significantly less money, if the Transporter is $1999.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-08-02 Thread Mark Lanctot


rhyzome Wrote: 
 The Wheel MAY address some of those issues, but the encoder doesn't
 fully compensate for the lack of a 10-foot or multiline display, which
 I think you need to be able to fulfil the purpose of navigation a large
 library.

Hmm?  I can easily read the display from 15 feet away (and I wear
glasses) plus it is a multiline display (2 lines).

Also with the new 2-display Transporter, you may be able to stretch
text over both displays, which would make the text width at least as
wide as you'd get with a 15 monitor, even a 17 monitor.

Take a helluva lot less real estate and power than a PC too, and even
quieter than a low noise fan.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-08-02 Thread Jacob Potter


On 8/2/06, rhyzome
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don't doubt the Transporter will work for some, but equally I think a
Mac Mini or a silenced MITX machine + RME Fireface 400 will give equally
good audio results combined with a higher degree of flexibility - for
significantly less money, if the Transporter is $1999.


If it has a hard drive, it's not silent. :)

- Jacob
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


radish Wrote: 
 Not a chance. I'm not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination,
 but... just... no.

Any reason why? 

The output from my Mini + Fireface (800) goes into the dCS Elgar Plus,
clocked by the Verona. It gives generally as good a result as I've ever
heard out of a transport (including the Verdi La Scala sitting on the
top of my stack).


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


Mark Lanctot Wrote: 
 Hmm?  I can easily read the display from 15 feet away (and I wear
 glasses) plus it is a multiline display (2 lines).
 
 Also with the new 2-display Transporter, you may be able to stretch
 text over both displays, which would make the text width at least as
 wide as you'd get with a 15 monitor, even a 17 monitor.
 
 Take a helluva lot less real estate and power than a PC too, and even
 quieter than a low noise fan.


The two displays are intersected by the knob. You may be able to
stretch it, but then you may not. 

As for 15 17 monitors or whatever, there's this thing called a TV,
Plasma or in my case Bravia in most people's living rooms. And that's
what my Mini is hooked up to.

I wonder how many of you actually have experience of comparing the two.


You know, I sweated for ages trying to silence my PC's. It was rapidly
coming to the situation where I was about to throw in the towel. Then I
got the Mac Mini and I realised I'd been completely wasting my time with
PC's. Mini-ITX solutions I'm told are exceptionally silenceably these
days, and these systems run on 2.5 discs (which don't generally whine
or whirr much). Noise is not an issue with these ultra silent
computers.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


radish Wrote: 
 Not a chance. I'm not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination,
 but... just... no.

Any reason why? 

The output from my Mini + Fireface (800) goes into the dCS Elgar Plus,
clocked by the Verona. It gives generally as good a result as I've ever
heard out of a transport (including the Verdi La Scala sitting on the
top of my stack. The Verdi is better but not definitively so).


Mark Lanctot Wrote: 
 Hmm?  I can easily read the display from 15 feet away (and I wear
 glasses) plus it is a multiline display (2 lines).
 
 Also with the new 2-display Transporter, you may be able to stretch
 text over both displays, which would make the text width at least as
 wide as you'd get with a 15 monitor, even a 17 monitor.
 
 Take a helluva lot less real estate and power than a PC too, and even
 quieter than a low noise fan.


The two displays are intersected by the knob. You may be able to
stretch it, but then you may not. 2 lines is not multiline. It's 2
lines. 

As for 15 17 monitors or whatever, there's this thing called a TV in
most people's living rooms, or in my case an ultra-quiet  LCD panel.
That's what my Mini is hooked up to and I don't have to squint at all
to look at that. 

I wonder how many of you actually have experience of comparing the two.
You know, I sweated for ages trying to silence my PC's. It was rapidly
coming to the situation where I was about to throw in the towel. Then I
got the Mac Mini and I realised I'd been completely wasting my time with
PC's. Mini-ITX solutions I'm told are exceptionally silenceably these
days, and many of these systems (including the Mini) run on 2.5 discs
(which don't generally whine or whirr much). Noise is generally not an
issue with these ultra silent computers. It pays to try lots of things
as I've done before you pass judgement. The Transporter is I'm sure a
very good option but it really needs more in terms of display and
navigation (main and remote) capabilities, and as I said it seems
overpriced compared to PC/pro soundcard-based solutions which offer I
would say superior flexibility and as I said, audio ability on a par
with the Transporter, especially if you're clocking/DACing for maximum
results.

I would imagine I'm part of the target market for the Transporter based
on my audio expenditure at least. But -I- see better solutions.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-08-02 Thread radish


rhyzome Wrote: 
 The output from my Mini + Fireface (800) goes into the dCS Elgar Plus,
 clocked by the Verona. It gives generally as good a result as I've ever
 heard out of a transport (including the Verdi La Scala sitting on the
 top of my stack, which is actually used these days only to play back my
 SACD's. The Verdi is better but not definitively so as a redbook
 transport even considering the various manipulations subjected by the
 dCS hard/software).
 
Of course no-one outside of SD has heard the transporter yet, but the
expectation is it will be on a par with the very best transports
available. The amount of design and engineering put into (for example)
minimising jitter on the SP/DIF far exceeds that in any commodity
computer audio device. You say yourself that the La Scala is better
than the mini, it's simply my opinion that whilst the mini may well be
-good enough- (and probably would be for me, given the rest of my
system) I'd be amazed if it were -as good- as the Transporter - or even
an SB3 to be honest.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-08-02 Thread Mark Lanctot


rhyzome Wrote: 
 As for 15 17 monitors or whatever, there's this thing called a TV in
 most people's living rooms, or in my case an ultra-quiet  LCD panel.
 That's what my Mini is hooked up to and I don't have to squint at all
 to look at that. 

I have indeed heard of a TV, thanks for the sarcasm.

IMO it has no place in an audio setup.  To have to turn it on every
time you just want to listen to music would get old in a hurry.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-08-02 Thread Jacob Potter


On 8/2/06, radish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

You say yourself that the La Scala is better
than the mini, it's simply my opinion that whilst the mini may well be
-good enough- (and probably would be for me, given the rest of my
system) I'd be amazed if it were -as good- as the Transporter - or even
an SB3 to be honest.


Er, I don't think anyone's suggesting the Mini's line output...
rhyzome's using an external Firewire DAC.

- Jacob
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-08-02 Thread mkozlows


rhyzome Wrote: 
 I think the SB's plus point was its low price and audioserver bang for
 the buck given the features. If you start making it an audiophile
 component from the get go though, the glaring problems with navigation,
 etc start becoming exposed. 

I strongly disagree.  I've used Windows Media Center (which is not bad
at all), but the Squeezebox UI is much, much better.  It's faster, it's
less awkward, and it doesn't require a TV.  

I don't get people who think the Squeezebox has a bad UI.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-08-02 Thread radish


Jacob Potter Wrote: 
 On 8/2/06, radish radish.2bxkpz1154552401 (AT) no-mx (DOT)
 forums.slimdevices.com wrote:
  You say yourself that the La Scala is better
  than the mini, it's simply my opinion that whilst the mini may well
 be
  -good enough- (and probably would be for me, given the rest of my
  system) I'd be amazed if it were -as good- as the Transporter - or
 even
  an SB3 to be honest.
 
 Er, I don't think anyone's suggesting the Mini's line output...
 rhyzome's using an external Firewire DAC.
 
 - Jacob
Well in that case I misunderstood, but that also negates any price
difference- the Fireface 800 is $1500 on it's own.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-29 Thread Michaelwagner


I think this man has a valid point.

Masterbaron Wrote: 
 SD is truly a responsive company 
 
 SD has addressed most of the audiophile Mods..
 SD has addressed the long sought-after form factor..
 SD had addressed the blessed knob..
 SD has addressed potential sound quality..dac, ps, etc.



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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread snarlydwarf


Heh, was just a joke, kdf.. the year of testing was just too much of a
straight line and Microsoft is always such an easy target.  Slimserver
even keeps most of the planned features.

But, really it's not like Slimserver is being used to guide the space
shuttle... The guessed timeline of Radish sounds very feasible.  6.5
got pretty stable after the Big Merge settled down and it has had lots
of tweaking.  It's certainly not perfect yet, but it has made a lot of
progress and is nearly there.

Midseptember seems very feasible to me.  The number of issues that come
up depend really a lot on how many people try to install it in the last
few days before it is official: I expect most of the issues to be in
the install process.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread NWP


dangerous_dom Wrote: 
 You can argue all you like about DAC's, remotes and power suplies, but
 what will really make or break this product is Slimserver. I dont care
 what anyone says, it's not looking too hot right now where i am
 sitting. I have tried so many 6.5's in the last few days and i am
 starting to lose the will to live. Bad handling of CUE sheets,
 compilation album issues (Still?!) and i cant even get the last few
 version i have tried to even start after a reboot.
 

I've been running 6.5 for months now.  There are a few features in 6.5
(like the nokia skin and the ability to search shoutcast) that I
wouldn't want to be without.  I've heard from time to time that there
have been some unstable nightly builds, but I must have missed them.

I've also installed it for two other people at different times and have
heard no complaints.  Perhaps there have been some problems inroduced
recently, but I find it hard to believe they are very behind schedule.

MrSinatra Wrote: 
 
 i wonder if anyone would bother to take a double blind test b4 forking
 over that kind of dough?
 

A double blind test? Isn't that like Kryptonite for Audiophiles?

The new device is definitely out of my price range, but then again the
Squeezebox is out of my range.  I just recommend them to others and
play my music on my stereo through my motherboard's crappy onboard
sound.

I wish Slim Devices luck on the Transporter.  I am glad to see you
expanding your product line.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread kdf



On 27-Jul-06, at 11:16 PM, snarlydwarf wrote:



Heh, was just a joke, kdf..

yup...me too


the year of testing was just too much of a
straight line and Microsoft is always such an easy target.  Slimserver
even keeps most of the planned features.


yeah, but not the only only target.


But, really it's not like Slimserver is being used to guide the space
shuttle...


sean did say there were more surprises.  after all, with those who are 
certain that Transporter will be a flop, there has to be a revenue 
stream somehwere.
I heard Bush wants to get to the moon again.  They'll need music to 
pass the 6 days, surely.



It's certainly not perfect yet, but it has made a lot of
progress and is nearly there.

Won't be perfect on release either. It would be silly to claim 
otherwise. The feature set is more or less frozen already, but that 
doesn't mean the feature set is all announced yet. There is a lot to 
cover with what is already there.



Midseptember seems very feasible to me.  The number of issues that come
up depend really a lot on how many people try to install it in the last
few days before it is official: I expect most of the issues to be in
the install process.

oh yes, tricky issues there. as always with such large scale migration. 
Not to mention a much greater number of plugins in the wild that will 
need some careful rework in order to convert from 6.3.x to 6.5.  
Currently any that are using custom graphics are a sure fire crash.  I 
hope that authors make the effort to try 6.5 and work out the kinks.  
Not good if their all waiting for release.  Lots of people willing to 
help in the Dev forum for anyone who has questions on the new stuff.

-kdf

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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread dangerous_dom


radish Wrote: 
 6.5 is not even in beta, it's in development. 

On the download page is says,

 
 # 6.5b1 - This is the latest alpha pre-release (yes, we really mean it)
 development version of SlimServer.
 

I thought Aplha was a more advanced stage than beta?

Sorry, my bad.

Then why still use the 'b' prefix?

But the point still remains, that i really think SS will be the making
for breaking of the Transporter.

I have tried 6.3.0, 6.3.1, and several versions of 6.5b. Most are
'stable', but with broken features.

I knew i was going to get a little flammig for this, but i hope people
understand my frustrations and what i am trying to say. Just imagine
the frustation of a Tranporter customer. But i am sorry if i have
sounded arrogant, i dont really mean it to be that way. I just want my
music libary working properly.

Keep up the good work people, i know you are working like crazy to make
this great for everyone. SD cant be faulted in that respect. If anyone
could make a product like the Transporter work its SD. I would not
trust it with anyone else.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread Michaelwagner


Dom:

An alpha release in software is more tentative, more developmental than
a beta release.

From the greek letters alpha, beta, gamma, delta.

Corresponding roughly to A, B, C/G, D.

I guess you'd have to say that the real release was the gamma.

Delta's are usually small incremental updates to a released base, so
like 6.3.1 was to 6.3.

This use of the letter delta probably comes from calculus, where delta
is the difference from the previous result, used for improving the
accuracy of the next result in an iterative solution.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread Marc Sherman


dangerous_dom wrote:


I thought Aplha was a more advanced stage than beta?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_stage

- Marc
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread radish


dangerous_dom Wrote: 
 
 But the point still remains, that i really think SS will be the making
 for breaking of the Transporter.
 
 I have tried 6.3.0, 6.3.1, and several versions of 6.5b. Most are
 'stable', but with broken features.
 
I actually do agree - that the software is key and that with the
Transporter SD are going after a different market with different
expectations. This is new to them, and I wish them luck, but you're
right in that it's going to be a challenge. I just don't see any
evidence to call it a failure just yet :)


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread tamanaco


For us poor SB3 owners the Transporter might be a blessing in
disguise. SD will be a bit more pressed to improve the quality and
reliability of the SS to meet the expectations of the Transporter
owners.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread dangerous_dom


They should also consider the fact that if they give away an SB3 for use
before the Transporter starts shipping, they the person with a
transporter hits the problems with 6.3.1 and 6.5b, it could put them
off and that 30 refund policy might just start getting used.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-28 Thread Masterbaron


Well Alright!!! SD is truly a responsive company - let's focus on the
positive...

SD has addressed most of the audiophile Mods..
SD has addressed the long sought-after form factor..
SD had addressed the blessed knob..
SD has addressed potential sound quality..dac, ps, etc.

Please consider these facts when you debate the UI and the price.

SD released this product in response to our ideas and needs - what more
is there to ask? - do you really think they will let that investment
fail behind a UI?

i tend to think things will only get better and I for one believe SD is
on the right track - as far as price.. be careful what you ask for?
Don't you think they deserve it - especially since they have probably
staged they next UI for release by September.

I can't wait - hell, I don't even mind it will retire my latest
purchase from them.

They will definitely get my contribution for their responsiveness.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


I also think the current remote is fine basic remote. What I have been
looking for is an improvement on the basic. If you're using a Universal
Remote instead of the SB remote then you paid for a remote that you're
not using. (Believe me, SD factored their cost of the remote in the
final price of the SB)

Most hardware manufacturers price their products based on a single set
of basic accessories bundled with their gadgets. Lately, some
manufacturers are providing different bundles with enhanced
accessories at higher prices. This allows them to cast a wider net.
You want basic; buy the basic... you want enhanced...  (fill the
blank) Look at the Xbox. You can buy either the basic or the premium
package. Incomplete toys are good source of profits. SD can get revenue
from licensing the SD logo to a specialized remote control manufacturer.
Look at the iPod accessories market... I know... a big stretch.

This is what I'd like to see from SD. The remote does not have to be
manufactured by SD or branded SD. (I don't know if SD makes their
remote or if it's re-branded) I believe that SD or someone else can
develop a Wi-Fi remote with a color LCD for the SB/Transporter family
that works like an MP3 player. I want to walk around the house and
select the song(s) I want without having to walk up to the SB. I admit
it... I'm almost 50 years old and I can't see too well. But even at
this late age I have come to enjoy the ease with which I can navigate a
large music library from an MP3 player. There is no need to reinvent the
wheel. The technology to get this done is all there. To me the icing on
the cake would be if SD bundled an enhanced Wi-Fi MP3-like remote that
could also act as a Universal IR/RF remote. I'd gladly pay the premium.


Currently, to solve my remote problems, I'm going to spend more money
buying someone else's remote. I'm looking to get a Logitech 880 and so
the money spent under the table on the SD remote was wasted. Oh, I
forgot... I might need it to update the firmware.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread Ben Sandee

On 7/27/06, tamanaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I also think the current remote is fine basic remote. What I have beenlooking for is an improvement on the basic. If you're using a Universal
Remote instead of the SB remote then you paid for a remote that you'renot using. (Believe me, SD factored their cost of the remote in thefinal price of the SB)What, like $1? Seriously, that remote control does impact the price of a SB very much at all.
Ben 
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


Ben Sandee Wrote: 
 What, like $1?  Seriously, that remote control does impact the price of
 a SB
 very much at all. Ben

Using real cost analogy... for any of digital circuit components that
makes up the SB3... not many of the components add up to impact the
price of the SB that much either. Regardless of the components cost, I
think the issue being discussed is about the possibility of a future
remote. A remote that can enhance the usabiltiy of the SB by providing
a more natural way of navigating a large music library while allowing
you to control the rest of your AV system. 

In other words... I would like a remote to control the music comming
out of my AV system while I lay down on the couch without having to
turn my head and squint to look at what's playing or what I want to
play next in the SB3. I also don't want to get up to pick up another
remote. Yep... I'm old and lazy too.

Quoting the SD CEO from Audiophile/Transporter question for the CEO
thread.
btw, i have to agree about the remote, i don't see why at $2k someone
can't get a great remote, not a cheesy looking one, that looks like it
has all the problems the other one does.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread Ben Sandee

On 7/27/06, tamanaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben Sandee Wrote: What, like $1?Seriously, that remote control does impact the price of
a SB very much at all. BenUsing real cost analogy... for any of digital circuit components thatmakes up the SB3... not many of the components add up to impact theprice of the SB that much either. Regardless of the components cost, I
think the issue being discussed is about the possibility of a futureremote. A remote that can enhance the usabiltiy of the SB by providinga more natural way of navigating a large music library while allowing
you to control the rest of your AV system.I was responding specifically to your point that people are somehow throwing money down the toilet by being forced to buy a sub-par remote. The truth is that if SD added a higher end remote, people *would* need to pay for it (even if it were optional). However, the current remote is so cheap that you wouldn't see any appreciable price drop if it were dropped off the bundle.
I'm not arguing that there isn't a market for a more advanced remote but I think that if SD were to offer it, it would make the most sense to offer this as a sensibly-priced add-on product rather than creating different SB3 bundles with different remotes. That way all of their existing customers can take advantage of it as well and not feel like they wasted their money buying a $1 remote that they no longer need.
Ben
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread dangerous_dom


You can argue all you like about DAC's, but what will really make or
break this product is Slimserver. i dont care what anyone says, it's
not looking too hot right now. I have tried some many 6.5's in the
laster few days and i am starting to lose the will to live. Bad
handling of CUE sheets, compilation album issues (Still?!) and i cant
even get the last few version i have tried to even start after a
reboot.

Audiophles DEMAND robustness and reliablity. It may or may not be
better than a $10,000 CD play, but CD players just WORK. You plug them
in and they work. No silly bugs, constant messing around and solving
one problem only to find it caused another.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

If you don't care what anyone says, this will be a dull discussion!On 7/27/06, dangerous_dom 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:break this product is Slimserver. i dont care what anyone says, it's
not looking too hot right now. I have tried some many 6.5's in the
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread dangerous_dom


Mitch Harding Wrote: 
 If you don't care what anyone says, this will be a dull discussion!
 
 On 7/27/06, dangerous_dom 
 dangerous_dom.2bmhvn1154035501 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com
 wrote:
 
 
  break this product is Slimserver. i dont care what anyone says, it's
  not looking too hot right now. I have tried some many 6.5's in the
 

Esspecially with replies like that :P

Anyway, you get my point. Or not it seems?


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

I agree SS has room for improvement. On the other hand, 6.3 is working fine for me. I had assumed that 6.5 was still in beta mode. Given that Transporter doesn't ship until September, I'd say that 6.5 still has some time to mature.
I'd prefer to see SS be more of an application than a web app, but I can understand the OS portability benefits of the current model. I'm on the fence.On 7/27/06, 
dangerous_dom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mitch Harding Wrote: If you don't care what anyone says, this will be a dull discussion! On 7/27/06, dangerous_dom  dangerous_dom.2bmhvn1154035501 (AT) no-mx (DOT) 
forums.slimdevices.com wrote:break this product is Slimserver. i dont care what anyone says, it's  not looking too hot right now. I have tried some many 
6.5's in the Esspecially with replies like that :PAnyway, you get my point. Or not it seems?--dangerous_dom
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


Ben Sandee Wrote: 
 
 I was responding specifically to your point that people are somehow
 throwing
 money down the toilet by being forced to buy a sub-par remote.  The
 truth is
 that if SD added a higher end remote, people *would* need to pay for
 it
 (even if it were optional).  However, the current remote is so cheap
 that
 you wouldn't see any appreciable price drop if it were dropped off the
 bundle.
 

I get your point now... I agree

Ben Sandee Wrote: 
 
 I'm not arguing that there isn't a market for a more advanced remote
 but I
 think that if SD were to offer it, it would make the most sense to
 offer
 this as a sensibly-priced add-on product rather than creating different
 SB3
 bundles with different remotes.  That way all of their existing
 customers
 can take advantage of it as well and not feel like they wasted their
 money
 buying a $1 remote that they no longer need.
 

They can offer the remotes bundled for new users and unbundled for us
old folks


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


dangerous_dom Wrote: 
 You can argue all you like about DAC's, remotes and power suplies, but
 what will really make or break this product is Slimserver. 

There are several pieces to this puzzle, but as dangerous_dom mentions,
the Slimserver is a critical piece. To charge 2K is fine as long as
you have a functional system that you can enjoy. The SB3 and Slimserver
remind me of my first car. I couldn't afford anything else and so I had
to learn to be a bit of a mechanic. Now I can afford and own a new
car... it better start when I turn that key! I can live with some of
the Slimserver deficiecies because I bought a $249 SB3, but if I bought
a Transporter... the Slimserver better Transport.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread tomsi42


Mitch Harding Wrote: 
 
 I'd prefer to see SS be more of an application than a web app, but I
 can
 understand the OS portability benefits of the current model.  I'm on
 the
 fence.]

OS Portability is a major issue for many people. So for the server
itself, I find the current model find.

Another nice feature of the slimserver design is that it is possible to
add different front ends to it. 

I will venture a guess that it is a more fancy/sexy/nice frontend that
most want. Which isn't slimserver's job...

Tom


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

It may not be SS job, but I do agree that some people may feel entitled to a slicker UI if they paid $2000 for the player. Whether that is justified or not is, of course, debatable.On 7/27/06, 
tomsi42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mitch Harding Wrote: I'd prefer to see SS be more of an application than a web app, but I can understand the OS portability benefits of the current model.I'm on the fence.]
OS Portability is a major issue for many people. So for the serveritself, I find the current model find.Another nice feature of the slimserver design is that it is possible toadd different front ends to it.
I will venture a guess that it is a more fancy/sexy/nice frontend thatmost want. Which isn't slimserver's job...Tom--tomsi42SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre.
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread radish


Mitch Harding Wrote: 
 I agree SS has room for improvement.  On the other hand, 6.3 is working
 fine
 for me.  I had assumed that 6.5 was still in beta mode.  Given that
 Transporter doesn't ship until September, I'd say that 6.5 still has
 some
 time to mature.
 
6.5 is not even in beta, it's in development. It will break, it will
have bugs and it will be unusable for much of the time. If you're using
it, well good luck - now you know what to expect. To criticize an
application based on a pre-beta dev build of a future version is absurd
- but of course people should feel free to criticize (constructively!)
the current release (6.3.1) all they like.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread tomsi42


Mitch Harding Wrote: 
 It may not be SS job, but I do agree that some people may feel entitled
 to a
 slicker UI if they paid $2000 for the player.  Whether that is
 justified or
 not is, of course, debatable.

No problems with that. 

I am not sure how to create the slicker UI though. Should it be a fancy
remote (like Sonos), a software frontend (like moose, but OS agnostic)
or implemented in the player itself ? In an ideal world it would be all
of them.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

Based on how I use my SB3, I'd love a UI that is similar to iTunes or WinAmp or such, where searching the library and building playlists is easier and faster. Ideally this would be OS agnostic, and also have a PDA/remote interface.
In practice, I think this is a tall order. And for me, it's not a dealbreaker. But I am head-over-heels in love with the SB3, so I am willing to accept a level of inconvenience with SS. If I was less enamoured of the SB3, I imagine I would be less tolerant of the rough edges of SS.
On 7/27/06, tomsi42 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:Mitch Harding Wrote: It may not be SS job, but I do agree that some people may feel entitled
 to a slicker UI if they paid $2000 for the player.Whether that is justified or not is, of course, debatable.No problems with that.I am not sure how to create the slicker UI though. Should it be a fancy
remote (like Sonos), a software frontend (like moose, but OS agnostic)or implemented in the player itself ? In an ideal world it would be allof them.--tomsi42SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre.
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread tomsi42


Mitch Harding Wrote: 
 Based on how I use my SB3, I'd love a UI that is similar to iTunes or
 WinAmp
 or such, where searching the library and building playlists is easier
 and
 faster.  Ideally this would be OS agnostic, and also have a PDA/remote
 interface.
 

Agree.

Mitch Harding Wrote: 
 
 In practice, I think this is a tall order.  And for me, it's not a
 dealbreaker.  But I am head-over-heels in love with the SB3, so I am
 willing
 to accept a level of inconvenience with SS.  If I was less enamoured of
 the
 SB3, I imagine I would be less tolerant of the rough edges of SS.
 

Agree again. The SB3 is awesome!


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread mbonsack


radish Wrote: 
 6.5 is not even in beta, it's in development. It will break, it will
 have bugs and it will be unusable for much of the time. If you're using
 it, well good luck - now you know what to expect. To criticize an
 application based on a pre-beta dev build of a future version is absurd
 - but of course people should feel free to criticize (constructively!)
 the current release (6.3.1) all they like.

From a software development standpoint, then, SS is at extreme risk for
not making the Sept 18 deadline.  The software should be in beta with
only 50 or so days left before release. Though I'm happy with 6.3.x and
not using 6.5, from the traffic in these forums it looks like there's
*no way* it's ready to enter beta, and a 60-day beta is the absolute
minimum I've seen to get a true quality release out the door -- both on
software I've worked on and that which I've purchased.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread radish


mbonsack Wrote: 
 From a software development standpoint, then, SS is at extreme risk for
 not making the Sept 18 deadline.  The software should be in beta with
 only 50 or so days left before release. Though I'm happy with 6.3.x and
 not using 6.5, from the traffic in these forums it looks like there's
 *no way* it's ready to enter beta, and a 60-day beta is the absolute
 minimum I've seen to get a true quality release out the door -- both on
 software I've worked on and that which I've purchased.

You can't throw random numbers like that around, they're entirely
dependent on the software in question and the team building it. I used
to work on an application many orders of magnitude larger and more
complex than Slimserver and our entire release cycle was 6 weeks -
essentially 3 weeks for dev and 3 for test  fix. Worked well for a
number of years. On the other hand, some companies can spend a year or
more in public beta and still produce a sub-par end result. Personally,
I'm not at all concerned about 6.5 right now (not that it would matter
if I were!). They've got a good solid few weeks of dev left, middle of
august would be a good time to solidify the feature list and throw out
anything not done or looking patchy, a week or so to tie up loose ends
and then still 3+ weeks for a solid testing phase. With the level of
interaction from tech savvy community members I'd be pretty confident
of getting a good result. But I'm not the QA manager :)


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread snarlydwarf


radish Wrote: 
 On the other hand, some companies can spend a year or more in public
 beta and still produce a sub-par end result. 

:: cough :: Vista :: cough ::


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-27 Thread kdf



On 27-Jul-06, at 10:11 PM, snarlydwarf wrote:



radish Wrote:

On the other hand, some companies can spend a year or more in public
beta and still produce a sub-par end result.


:: cough :: Vista :: cough ::

just as bad as what ppl are doing here.  can't really slag a release 
that isn't released.


win95: now THAT was harsh after being the most tested software ever 
at the time.


win2k finally got something right (well, after SP1)

linux: always a work in progress.

osx: never crashesexcept when it does.

life still goes on, except for those who lose the will to live over 
minor software issues. I certainly don't

plan to take away a person's right to make that choice.
-kdf

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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Fifer


radish Wrote: 
 Thanks all :)  I didn't mean to hijack the thread!  But yes, weddings
 are expensive, particularly when they're in NYC. It's not going to be
 particularly extravagent in the grand scheme of things,  but with 100
 people @ $200 a head (plus tax  tip!), a dress, a honeymoon, a
 photographer, a cake, dinner the night before, breakfast the morning
 after, flowers, decorations, invites and everything else it all adds
 up.
Congratulations radish! 

Why not do what we did: registry office wedding, photographer, 20 close
friends and family for a meal and a few drinks at a nice restaurant then
use the change for a Transporter and system upgrade? (OK, I didn't get
away with the last bit, but you might ... ) ;)


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Michaelwagner


radish Wrote: 
 I am very pleased to be able to confirm the cheesy DJ will be replaced
 by a laptop  a squeezebox with a bunch of custom playlists. 
Hey!

Some of us non-cheesy DJs (who DJ with a laptop and an SB1) object
strenuously :-)


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Michaelwagner


radish Wrote: 
 What I'm looking at now is how to add an idiot-proof jukebox style
 browser so people can choose tunes themselves and have them added to
 the queue.
Have you looked at Moose? I haven't looked at it in a while but it
seemed not bad last I looked.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread bobharp


radish Wrote: 
 I know. I'm one myself :)  But for what we have planned a human just
 isn't required. What I'm looking at now is how to add an idiot-proof
 jukebox style browser so people can choose tunes themselves and have
 them added to the queue.

Congrats radish and congrats to SD on the new product and gaining
radishes spouse approval factor (SAF).


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread sfraser


radish Wrote: 
 That's a bargain. I thought I was getting the cheap option by only
 shelling out $20 for a months membership of match.com and now I'm
 having to find $40k for a wedding! That's 20 transporters! Damn. Time
 to reevaluate priorities...

Your scaring me man! I proposed two weeks ago, and it is full speed
ahead for a 07 wedding! $40K gee-sus H 


Scott


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread shabbs


radish Wrote: 
 What I'm looking at now is how to add an idiot-proof jukebox style
 browser so people can choose tunes themselves and have them added to
 the queue.
Like a Windows Media Player interface where you can drag songs to the
Squeezebox queue?


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[shabbs]

*iPod:* 4G [40GB]  |  *OS:* Windows XP Pro SP2 | *iPod audio:* Sony '
MDR-EX71SL'
(http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=16xGo7sNu5VGifp5w5lMqPQCC6R64p2DISc=?ProductSKU=MDREX71SLDept=acc_HeadphonesCategoryName=acc_Headphones_Fontopia%2e%2fEarbud)
and 'MDR-V600'
(http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=_kMTDIIA2joTVcNyXogZB80QbAefQPuz-8U=?ProductSKU=MDRV600)
headphones
*MP3s:* 59.3 GB / 8,609 songs and growing! | *MP3 ripper:* 'EAC'
(http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) 0.95b4 [secure] w/ 'Lame'
(http://www.rarewares.org/mp3.html) v3.97b2 [-V 0]
*Manager:* 'Anapod Explorer' (http://www.redchairsoftware.com/anapod/)
v8.9.7a | *Extras:* 'Squeezebox v1'
(http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_overview.html), 'Linksys NSLU2'
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Pale Blue Ego


I actually got married on my lunch hour, then went back to work.  How's
that for romance?

Still, it's one of the greatest days of my life; a happy memory, a few
cherished photos, and a wonderful life together.

Priceless.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread shabbs


radish Wrote: 
 Something along those lines yes. I used to use Meedio (RIP) on a HTPC
 and that had a great party mode which allowed you to browse (by name or
 artwork) and add to the queue, and nothing else. Utterly idiot proof and
 nice to look at.
It would be cool if WMP could integrate like that and have a kiosk
mode that only allowed users to modify the songs in the queue.


-- 
shabbs

[shabbs]

*iPod:* 4G [40GB]  |  *OS:* Windows XP Pro SP2 | *iPod audio:* Sony '
MDR-EX71SL'
(http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=16xGo7sNu5VGifp5w5lMqPQCC6R64p2DISc=?ProductSKU=MDREX71SLDept=acc_HeadphonesCategoryName=acc_Headphones_Fontopia%2e%2fEarbud)
and 'MDR-V600'
(http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=_kMTDIIA2joTVcNyXogZB80QbAefQPuz-8U=?ProductSKU=MDRV600)
headphones
*MP3s:* 59.3 GB / 8,609 songs and growing! | *MP3 ripper:* 'EAC'
(http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) 0.95b4 [secure] w/ 'Lame'
(http://www.rarewares.org/mp3.html) v3.97b2 [-V 0]
*Manager:* 'Anapod Explorer' (http://www.redchairsoftware.com/anapod/)
v8.9.7a | *Extras:* 'Squeezebox v1'
(http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_overview.html), 'Linksys NSLU2'
(http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2childpagename=US%2FLayoutcid=1118334819312pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper),
WD Dual-option 250GB External Drive

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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread bklaas


There's absolutely no reason that a skin couldn't be built specifically
for kiosk/jukebox mode. In fact, this has me thinking that maybe I'll
build it into Touch/Nokia770 as an option. 

Basically all it would do is, if jukebox mode is selected (through
server settings), remove a bunch of the controls from the UI--player
controls plus all shuffle and repeat settings on the 'now playing
page', remove the 'play now' button from all browse pages and only
leave 'add to queue', remove all of the playlist management controls
from the playlist page.

I'm going to add it to my to-do list to explore, it's an intriguing
option for parties. Not that I have any parties any more... :(

cheers,
#!/ben


-- 
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread shabbs


Very cool idea. Should you still be able to change the order of the
songs in the queue (move up/move down)?


-- 
shabbs

[shabbs]

*iPod:* 4G [40GB]  |  *OS:* Windows XP Pro SP2 | *iPod audio:* Sony '
MDR-EX71SL'
(http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=16xGo7sNu5VGifp5w5lMqPQCC6R64p2DISc=?ProductSKU=MDREX71SLDept=acc_HeadphonesCategoryName=acc_Headphones_Fontopia%2e%2fEarbud)
and 'MDR-V600'
(http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=_kMTDIIA2joTVcNyXogZB80QbAefQPuz-8U=?ProductSKU=MDRV600)
headphones
*MP3s:* 59.3 GB / 8,609 songs and growing! | *MP3 ripper:* 'EAC'
(http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) 0.95b4 [secure] w/ 'Lame'
(http://www.rarewares.org/mp3.html) v3.97b2 [-V 0]
*Manager:* 'Anapod Explorer' (http://www.redchairsoftware.com/anapod/)
v8.9.7a | *Extras:* 'Squeezebox v1'
(http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_overview.html), 'Linksys NSLU2'
(http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2childpagename=US%2FLayoutcid=1118334819312pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper),
WD Dual-option 250GB External Drive

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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread MrSinatra


i wonder what music out there actually takes advantage of a $2k piece of
transporting hardware?

i wonder if anyone would bother to take a double blind test b4 forking
over that kind of dough?

i've been dating my other squeezebox for 5 years, and i'm still
blindly testing the waters.  

i listen to a lot of older rock, it was recorded b4 digital.  not much
help there.  and remastering can often do more harm than good,
(although the hendrix stuff sounds GREAT)

i hope the next SB gets a better remote tho, the current one flat out
sucks.  u can get the rca lyra for $20 shipped and it has a universal
remote that works from anywhere in the house, (radio i assume). 
backlit would be nice, and a power button that actually cycles power,
and a playlists button.


-- 
MrSinatra

www.LION-Radio.org
Using:
Squeezebox2 w/SS 6.3.1 - Win XP Pro SP2 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram

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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Mitch Harding

I must be the only one who finds the current SB remote to be fine. It does what it needs to do in order for me to enjoy the SB. Sure, if they made a souped up remote I might be interested, but I have no complaints with the existing one.
On 7/26/06, MrSinatra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:i wonder what music out there actually takes advantage of a $2k piece of
transporting hardware?i wonder if anyone would bother to take a double blind test b4 forkingover that kind of dough?i've been dating my other squeezebox for 5 years, and i'm stillblindly testing the waters.
i listen to a lot of older rock, it was recorded b4 digital.not muchhelp there.and remastering can often do more harm than good,(although the hendrix stuff sounds GREAT)i hope the next SB gets a better remote tho, the current one flat out
sucks.u can get the rca lyra for $20 shipped and it has a universalremote that works from anywhere in the house, (radio i assume).backlit would be nice, and a power button that actually cycles power,and a playlists button.
--MrSinatrawww.LION-Radio.orgUsing:Squeezebox2 w/SS 6.3.1 - Win XP Pro SP2 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Mark Lanctot


Mitch Harding Wrote: 
 I must be the only one who finds the current SB remote to be fine.  It
 does
 what it needs to do in order for me to enjoy the SB.  Sure, if they
 made a
 souped up remote I might be interested, but I have no complaints with
 the
 existing one.

No, you're not the only one.  I find the remote pretty basic but it
does the job.  I'd rather not pay for an upgraded version especially
when it can be replaced with a universal remote so easily.

Outlaw Audio has the same approach - provide the most basic remote that
does the job to keep the cost low.  If the user wants a better remote,
there are multiple universal remotes that will do the job.

I use a Marantz RC1400 that came with my receiver.  Works perfectly. 
For functions that aren't replicated by hard buttons, I programmed
1-1/2 pages of custom items.


-- 
Mark Lanctot

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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Mark Lanctot


Michaelwagner Wrote: 
 The first year I had the box, I only ever used the remote to flash the
 Prom. I kinda forgot it was there. I only ever used the web interface.

Now that I think about it, between my SB2 and my SB3, I only use one
remote.  I used the first remote to program the universal and continue
to use it with the SB2 but I've never used the second remote.

The unused one still has the faceplate protector on it.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Michaelwagner


I bought one white SB3.

About 6 months later I noticed, on the picture on the web site, that
the white SB3 comes with a white remote. Sure enough, I looked in the
box, there it was unused. I'd never noticed it was white. Never took it
out of the box.

Saved on batteries, I guess.


-- 
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-26 Thread Pale Blue Ego


I think the current remote is fine.  I know it so well I use it in total
darkness with no problems.  It's an extension of my hand, actually.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


Pale Blue Ego Wrote: 
 I am also very interested in seeing how this flies with the high-end
 community.  I think this could be the machine that pushes computer
 audio into the audiophile mainstream

Me too, but I think those displays are a mistake. Many audiophiles
dislike anything other than audio amplification consuming power. I
never have visualisations on and I turn off the display a lot of the
time simply because they are distracting. When this thing gets a
serious review, there will be comments about the sound with the
displays on and off. I would have preferred to see no display or a
small one and a much better remote with a display, it's more practical,
if a little harder to accomplish from the SB3 starting point.

I have to say, I'm not keen on the design, it's too fussy with loads of
buttons that will never get used. I have Copland gear that is clean
looking and functional and I wish it had been more like that. Overall
though I applaud Slim for the product - it's what the market needs and
a good move. I hope the server software is vastly improved too.

Paul


-- 
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread agentsmith


I echo similar concerns.  While it looks very slick, the multiple
buttons and screen dominating the front makes this look less serious
than a typical high end device.

Coming from the Naim school of thought..

CardinalFang Wrote: 
 Me too, but I think those displays are a mistake. Many audiophiles
 dislike anything other than audio amplification consuming power. I
 never have visualisations on and I turn off the display a lot of the
 time simply because they are distracting. When this thing gets a
 serious review, there will be comments about the sound with the
 displays on and off. I would have preferred to see no display or a
 small one and a much better remote with a display, it's more practical,
 if a little harder to accomplish from the SB3 starting point.
 
 I have to say, I'm not keen on the design, it's too fussy with loads of
 buttons that will never get used. I have Copland gear that is clean
 looking and functional and I wish it had been more like that. Overall
 though I applaud Slim for the product - it's what the market needs and
 a good move. I hope the server software is vastly improved too.
 
 Paul


-- 
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread 325xi


Very good. When is it going to be reviewed by Stereophile? :)
I'm starting saving money... no ice cream for me anymore...

Interesting, if I'd connect it and SB3 to the same outboard DAC, how
much difference in SQ should I expect? Beyond the new features, how
different the digital section in them?


-- 
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


agentsmith Wrote: 
 I echo similar concerns.  While it looks very slick, the multiple
 buttons and screen dominating the front makes this look less serious
 than a typical high end device.

Also, I really wish that there was a transport-only option. The price
point is fair for what's inside, but a lot of that is unnecessary
clutter and stuff that will never get used in my view - I don't need a
DAC, two displays, a fancy wheel and all those buttons, what I was
hoping for was a clean looking transport with a graphical remote. 

I think it will have a tough time against an SB3 plus a $1500 DAC. OK,
so you can use the Transport DAC for other inputs, but audiophiles will
most likely already have a DAC at this price point.

Thinking about it some more, I'm really disappointed. I'm in the
minority I know, but right now, my money would go on a Sonos with a
Benchmark or Musical Fidelity DAC for the same price. 

Paul


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Grumpy_Git


awetmore Wrote: 
 I like the form factor and the front panel buttons and knob.  I don't
 need the three power supplies, gold plated circuit board, and other
 audiophile features.  I wish there was a $400 version that looked
 roughly like this with a knob and buttons and a single display.


Agreed, thats exactly what i want, maybe with a transformer coupled BNC
for spdif and analogue supplies.

One last thing would be to supply that lovely new rotary switch as a
geekport device for the SB3


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread rickwookie


CardinalFang Wrote: 
 Also, I really wish that there was a transport-only option. The price
 point is fair for what's inside, but a lot of that is unnecessary
 clutter and stuff that will never get used in my view - I don't need a
 DAC, two displays, a fancy wheel and all those buttons, what I was
 hoping for was a clean looking transport with a graphical remote. 
 
 I think it will have a tough time against an SB3 plus a $1500 DAC. OK,
 so you can use the Transport DAC for other inputs, but audiophiles will
 most likely already have a DAC at this price point.
 
 Thinking about it some more, I'm really disappointed. I'm in the
 minority I know, but right now, my money would go on a Sonos with a
 Benchmark or Musical Fidelity DAC for the same price. 
 
 Paul

I don't understand what you mean when you say transport-only option.
Surely if you don't need a DAC then a squeezebox IS that option. This
product is a serious DAC with a squeezebox built in.

As for the whole Sonos thing I don't get the appeal there at all. How
does that work if there's more that one person in your house wanting to
listen to different music in different rooms? You have to buy several
remotes at £319 each or wait and take it in turns? How's the jitter
from the Sonos' digital out compared to the '35ps at S/PDIF receiver'
quoted for this device?

Anyway back to the I'm really disappointed, what were you hoping for
for in this new product?


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Fifer


I think it's an exciting development and I'm seriously considering
whether I can justify it or not (a lot depends on the UK pricing). I
have to confess to being a wee bit disappointed that the pre-order
promo appears to be firmly targeted at new customers only, as most
existing customers are more likely to be thinking of selling a previous
model rather than acquiring yet another. I've still got a SB1 and my
current SB2 and I certainly don't need a SB3 and a transporter to go
with them. I totally understand why SD would want to target new
customers, but some alternative promotion for those of us who already
have SB2s or SB3s wouldn't go amiss surely?

When can we expect to see the transporter reviewed? Have any review
models gone out yet?


-- 
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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread ajmitchell


CardinalFang Wrote: 
 Also, I really wish that there was a transport-only option. 

If you don't need the on-board DAC I doubt you will see a signnificant
benefit that will justify the outlay - no doubt someone will eventually
do a high end SB3 +DAC vs Transporter comparison...maybe me in 6
months or so!

 I was hoping for was a clean looking transport with a graphical remote. 

Agreed a graphic remote would be great, but as SONOS already offer this
I suppose its easier for slimdevices to look to aftermarket
solutions...although admittedly this will always be a compromise.

 I think it will have a tough time against an SB3 plus a $1500 DAC. 

I am sure your right, and this is exactly what I am thinking about
right now (although the Music Fideilty DAC is a cool $4000!]:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=123933
 
 OK, so you can use the Transport DAC for other inputs 

Are you sure about this? Lets wait for confirmation

The other big issue (already mentioned) is how does it integrate into
multi-room with Sb3 etc. If there is no problem here (as I suspect)
then bundling the Sb3 for free is a nice sweetener IMHO

Alex


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread rickwookie


ajmitchell Wrote: 
 Are you sure about this? Lets wait for confirmation
 
 Alex

I think it says it here

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html

at the end of the paragraph 'Astounding Analog'...

In addition, Transporter's digital inputs allow its built-in DAC to be
used with other sources.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


rickwookie Wrote: 
 I don't understand what you mean when you say transport-only option.
 Surely if you don't need a DAC then a squeezebox IS that option. This
 product is a serious DAC with a squeezebox built in.
 

Yes, but the SB3 form factor isn't right for me and it doesn't have a
linear PSU or professional socketry. I wanted an Audiophile SB3, not a
DAC with a squeezebox thrown in. I already have a very good DAC - and
it doesn't have all those displays and buttons I don't need and don't
want to pay for.

rickwookie Wrote: 
 
 As for the whole Sonos thing I don't get the appeal there at all. How
 does that work if there's more that one person in your house wanting to
 listen to different music in different rooms? You have to buy several
 remotes at £319 each or wait and take it in turns? How's the jitter
 from the Sonos' digital out compared to the '35ps at S/PDIF receiver'
 quoted for this device?
 

No, just the one remote, but I can read it from my sofa and it displays
album art, plus it isn't in the same box as the audio components and
therefore potentially affecting audio quality. You can argue whether it
does or not, but if there was no display in the transporter and instead
it was on a remote, then it definitely wouldn't be degrading audio.

If you think you can hear that sort of difference in jitter, then
congratulations. It's a lot lower than most highly regarded kit out
there and I suspect only a handful of people could reliably detect it.
I have no idea what the Sonos jitter is, but I am a Slim customer right
now - I have a modded SB2 feeding a Musical Fidelity DAC.

rickwookie Wrote: 
 
 Anyway back to the I'm really disappointed, what were you hoping for
 for in this new product?

As I said a clean-looking, uncluttered standard sized audio component
with a graphical remote control. The transport would not have a DAC,
but would have high grade power supplies, components and socketry. With
it I'd want a Sonos-like remote so I can browse music from where I'm
sitting without needing binoculars.

I guess I'm no longer in line with where Slim are heading. That's fine,
most of you are and the best of luck to Slim, I just don't  like this
new component. To my mind the aesthetics and features are wrong for the
audiophile community.

Paul


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread rickwookie


CardinalFang Wrote: 
 it isn't in the same box as the audio components and therefore
 potentially affecting audio quality. You can argue whether it does or
 not, but if there was no display in the transporter and instead it was
 on a remote, then it definitely wouldn't be degrading audio.

I think they've probably gone out of their way to ensure that there is
no noise from the display

CardinalFang Wrote: 
 If you think you can hear that sort of difference in jitter, then
 congratulations. It's a lot lower than most highly regarded kit out
 there and I suspect only a handful of people could reliably detect it.
 I have no idea what the Sonos jitter is, but I am a Slim customer right
 now - I have a modded SB2 feeding a Musical Fidelity DAC.

Erm, that was my point. There's no way anyone on earth could hear that
jitter. I was suggesting therefore that there wasn't possibly going to
be any better digital output to any DAC from the Sonos' digital out.
But since this was not your reason for prefering a Sonos / High-end DAC
combo, more the asthetics / graphic remote, then I guess it's moot.

Since all the circuitry is in effect there in the transporter to
achieve the device that you want, and I would imagine exceed
performance expectations, I would be surprised if Slim didn't bring an
in-between device out that would fit the bill. Surely it would just be
a case of 'stripping-out' the bits that you don't need.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??


rickwookie Wrote: 
 I think they've probably gone out of their way to ensure that there is
 no noise from the display
 

I'm sure they have, but the audiophile community is pretty picky about
stuff like that and you have to convince them that 2 displays are a
good move in a high-end player. Be ready for reviewers who are
convinced it sounds better with them turned off, after all these guys
have $200 power cords.

rickwookie Wrote: 
 Since all the circuitry is in effect there in the transporter to achieve
 the device that you want, and I would imagine exceed performance
 expectations, I would be surprised if Slim didn't bring an in-between
 device out that would fit the bill. Surely it would just be a case of
 'stripping-out' the bits that you don't need.

I hope they do, this one has just got too much in it that is irrelevant
to the sound quality and merely makes it more expensive.

Paul


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread 325xi


I'm pretty sure SD people got ready for complaints regarding the
direction their design is heading - there is no high fidelity device on
earth that wouldn't produce at least some negative comments. That's just
perfectly normal.

I'm not interested in built-in DAC either, unless it confirmed to match
Lavry DA-10 level - and it's not necessarily any worse, we'll see.
However I'm not going to reject the device just because they put there
something I personally don't need. I consider SD to be pioneers in that
area, and kudos to them for that.

Re: jitter. You don't have to have golder ear to hear that. If it's
higher then some ns (not ps) it can alter sound so everybody would note
it. However it doesn't have to - depends also on the spectrum.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread bprager


I love my various SB's and with some effort, have gotten a reasonable
WAF.  But the one factor that continues to be a problem is the display.
As good as it is, (especially compared to other devices), it can't show
long album/track names without scrolling.
Yes, I know you can shrink the font, but then distance readability goes
to hades quick.
In classical music especially, many albums have the same starting
words.  Even now, you have to do a lot of scrolling to even pick out
the right album and that factor more than anything has prevented me
from making the SB's the centerpiece of my whole house system.
When I saw the transporter, the first thing that struck me was - great!
- one huge display that could easily display any album/track  title
known to man, at a highly readable font size.  If you wanted VU meters
(let's be honest - how many audiphiles will give a damn about cute
graphics for the music), you could use part of the display just like
the SB's.
At least, you could have had the display for album/track searching,
then during playback, use 1/2 of it (programable would have been nice)
to show any info you want incl cute graphics if that's your thing.
To split it into 2 displays I think was a major mistake, and missed an
incredible opportunity to allow a level of interaction with a digital
music library backend that would almost have equaled a seperate PC
monitor display.
At the audiophile level, its trivial to run the SB3 thru a better DAC,
I've been doing it for years.
But only Slim can improve the display.  Until it does, this device
doesn't improve enough beyond what I can put together right now.


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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Simon Still

Congratulations - this isn't for me (theres no way I could drop that much on a player) but it's a supurb product. With the stable, fast, Slimserver (lets hope) that is promised by 6.5 this will redefine the market.
I've never been a great fan of the industrial design of the squeezebox in either incarnation but this looks great. I love the curves on the case edge and whilst it wouldn't match any of my other kit it is more than any other the item to put on show. The row of identical buttons along the bottom don't suggest 'form follows function' has been the design mantra but look good.
Even the remote looks a cut above (and much more of a match for the SB3 than the current model - after market upgrade anyone?)The knob is cool, the twin displays will be full configurable (a new version of music info screensaver anyone?) and can be switched off for the minimalist look. 
It's a lot of money but not for an audiophile product. Those connections parts and case will have cost a packet. Heres hoping for the trickle down product before too long - same case and controls, standard SB3 parts inside. 300usd ;-) I'll dream on. ... 

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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread rick's cafe


Simon Still Wrote: 
 
 Even the remote looks a cut above (and much more of a match for the SB3
 than
 the current model - after market upgrade anyone?)
 


Agreed... but can the new remote work with SB3 .. would assume so.. 

can slim release better pics of the remote .. plus images with the
backlit display on


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WHEN MUSIC HIT YOU YOU FEEL NO PAIN!!!

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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Michaelwagner


ajmitchell Wrote: 
 Are you sure about this? Lets wait for confirmation
Yes, on the detailed specs page it lists inputs to the dac.
 Digital Outputs and Inputs
 
 Optical, coax, BNC, and XLR digital connectors 
 Word clock input for synchronization with an external clock 
 Linear-regulated power for all clock paths 
 Dedicated high-precision crystal oscillators (no PLL, no resampling) 
 Standard IEC-958 (S/PDIF) or AES/EBU encoding 
 Optical connector: TOSLINK 660nm 
 RCA connector: capacitor-coupled 500mVpp into 75 ohms 
 BNC connector: transformer-coupled, 500mVpp into 75 ohms 
 XLR connector: 4.7Vpp into 100 ohms 
 Sample rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 96kHz 
 Audio format: linear PCM, 16 or 24 bits per sample 
 Jitter (standard deviation): 
 11ps at oscillator (intrinsic jitter) 
 17ps at DAC 
 35ps at S/PDIF receiver



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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread EnochLight


pfarrell Wrote: 
 Not at all. It is aimed at audiophiles and they regularly spend
 unimaginable amounts of money.
 
 The Audiophile magazines regularly review turntables that cost
 $10,000, and a favorite costs $75,000.
 
 You're just not the target market.
 

You got that I right I'm not the target market!  ;-)  I whole hearedly
believe that a $75,000 turntable is ridiculous!  Audiophiles or not,
spending that kind of cash on a device like that is insane.  But hey,
I'm sure it'll (Transporter) sell.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Michaelwagner


Face it. We're not the target market. It hurts but it's possible to get
past it.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread 27ph


CardinalFang Wrote: 
 
 
 I think it will have a tough time against an SB3 plus a $1500 DAC. OK,
 so you can use the Transport DAC for other inputs, but audiophiles will
 most likely already have a DAC at this price point.
 
 Thinking about it some more, I'm really disappointed. I'm in the
 minority I know, but right now, my money would go on a Sonos with a
 Benchmark or Musical Fidelity DAC for the same price. 
 
 

I second that. If the price follows the SB3 trend this unit will cost
around $2700-2800 here in Scandinavia. At this price it would have to
beat just about every DAC out there. There are some pretty terrific
ones at a much lower price. For me, this is going to be a tough sale.

vH pH


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread tamanaco


bprager Wrote: 
 I love my various SB's and with some effort, have gotten a reasonable
 WAF.  But the one factor that continues to be a problem is the display.
 As good as it is, (especially compared to other devices), it can't show
 long album/track names without scrolling.
 Yes, I know you can shrink the font, but then distance readability goes
 to hades quick.
 In classical music especially, many albums have the same starting
 words.  Even now, you have to do a lot of scrolling to even pick out
 the right album and that factor more than anything has prevented me
 from making the SB's the centerpiece of my whole house system.
 When I saw the transporter, the first thing that struck me was - great!
 - one huge display that could easily display any album/track  title
 known to man, at a highly readable font size.  If you wanted VU meters
 (let's be honest - how many audiophiles will give a damn about cute
 graphics for the music), you could use part of the display just like
 the SB's.
 At least, you could have had the display for album/track searching,
 then during playback, use 1/2 of it (programable would have been nice)
 to show any info you want incl cute graphics if that's your thing.
 To split it into 2 displays I think was a major mistake, and missed an
 incredible opportunity to allow a level of interaction with a digital
 music library backend that would almost have equaled a seperate PC
 monitor display.
 At the audiophile level, its trivial to run the SB3 thru a better DAC,
 I've been doing it for years.
 But only Slim can improve the display.  Until it does, this device
 doesn't improve enough beyond what I can put together right now.

I think that a lot of your display concerns could be better addressed
with a graphical remote. You would no longer need to be in front of the
SB to read what's playing. As I mentioned before, a Wi-Fi/IR/RF SB
Universal remote control would allow you to control not only the SB,
but all your AV components. A color LCD on the remote would resolve the
distance readibility issues of the VFD that you mentioned. With a remote
with graphical interface the Classical Music naming issues go away. You
can get album art, lirics or any other album/song info you can think
of. Not to mention one's friends Wao! factor when they hear you sing
along with Pavoratti in Italian using phonetic lirics being fed to the
remote. I'd also like to get thumb wheel a la Ipod to scroll a little
more naturaly throught my music library. It can also be implemented to
support some of the plug-ins to allow you to create dynamic playlists,
display the weather... etc, etc. I want a Wi-Fi/IR/RF SB Universal
remote to be the center piece of my AV system as it would be only
component that'd need to interact from anywhere I sit in my one bedroom
NYC apartment. I'm sure it would make the place seem bigger than it
really is... I can already see myself sitting in the room with my white
throne as I build my new playlist.


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Fifer


tamanaco Wrote: 
 I want a Wi-Fi/IR/RF SB Universal remote to be the center piece of my
 AV system as it would be only component that'd need to interact from
 anywhere I sit in my one bedroom NYC apartment. I'm sure it would make
 the place seem bigger than it really is... I can already see myself
 sitting in the room with my white throne as I build my new playlist.
Nokia 770?


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread ModelCitizen


dangerous_dom Wrote: 
 
 I have no doubt there is a market for this, but one thing is for sure;
 they will really have to sort out SlimServer. I love it, but it has
 faults and bugs. Those bugs are annoying with the SB3, but if i had
 forked out $2000 (plus the other few grand for app/speakers to do it
 justice) i would be more than annoyed, i would be going absolutly nuts.
I couldn't agree with this more. Now we know that 6.5 is going to be
rock solid by September.. and why the increase in quality control
personel at SDs.
MC


-- 
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Squeezebox2  Benchmark Dac1  Naim NAC 82  Naim NAP 250  Shahinian
Arcs.
Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt

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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Marc Sherman


EnochLight wrote:

Am I the only one that has a major issue with this equipment costing
$2000?

I'm all about the new design and hardware, but... all of us knowing how
much it costs to build a high-end PC from scratch, even with a quality
soundcard and huge flat panel display... I feel that $2K is killing off
a huge amount of potential buyers.


Obviously, you're nowhere near the target market. I'm not either. I'm 
pretty sure SD's marketing department know what they're doing here.


- Marc

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Re: [slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??

2006-07-25 Thread Marc Sherman


CardinalFang wrote:


As I said a clean-looking, uncluttered standard sized audio component
with a graphical remote control. The transport would not have a DAC,
but would have high grade power supplies, components and socketry. With
it I'd want a Sonos-like remote so I can browse music from where I'm
sitting without needing binoculars.


Slim needs to come out with a snap on front plate that locks over top of 
the transporters front panel, hiding the displays, buttons, and the 
knob. All it needs is a logo painted on and an extension lens for the IR 
receiver. Since it's an audiophile accessory, they can charge $500 for 
it. :)


- Marc


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[slim] Re: New Slim Devices Product? The Transporter per 6moons.com??