Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Andy,

As I understand it the PCI Address configuration space is handled mostly by the 
BIOS and the CPU.  The bus is enumerated by the BIOS and then configuration 
takes place.  A good lecture on this topic can be found at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihgMcP2353I

HTH,

Joe

> 
> What sets the base address of a card? Is it the card or the PC / BIOS?
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Jon,

I guess you just have to 'love' standards huh?  heh.  Not to give away my age, 
but the last 'standard' I tried to decipher was NAPLPS.

Now, overlook my ignorance here, please.  What boards do you make?  Mesa boards?

Joe


- On Apr 23, 2019, at 8:39 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

> On 04/23/2019 11:21 AM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> Jon,
>>
>>> I make boards that use the parallel port as a communications
>>> channel for motion control.
>>> These use the IEEE-1284 (EPP) mode for faster communication.
>> How do you test if a card works properly in EPP mode?  This would be good
>> information to add to the list for those using your hardware.
>>
>>
> All I am concerned with is if it works with my boards.  But,
> in the process, I learned more than I ever WANTED to know
> about EPP.  EPP is a horrible "standard", because it really
> doesn't seem to be a standard.  There is the IEEE-1284
> designation, but I've never seen the standards document,
> probably because I can't afford it.  The best thing I ever
> found was the datasheet from an old ISA-bus multi-IO chip.
> Also, there is a Microsoft document that generally lays out
> how it is supposed to work.  But, chip makers don't follow
> any of that.  The Microsoft doc shows timing diagrams with
> no numbered specs on timing.  But, at least, the data bus is
> shown as stable before the strobes are asserted.  Well, some
> chips assert the strobes FIRST, then the data FOLLOWS.  Not
> even at the same time, but the strobes come 50 ns FIRST!  Crazy!
> 
> There was a very old PCI board that failed to hold the CPU
> in a wait state, so the strobe would come on and then a
> bunch of bytes would be sent rapidly on the data bus.  No
> WAY to fix that one in software.
> 
> Anyway, one of the areas of confusion is how the data bus
> direction is handled.  One way is the driver program
> commands all direction changes by setting/clearing a bit in
> the control register.  Another way is the use of INB and
> OUTB CPU instructions allows the board to turn the bus
> around as needed, automatically.  Some boards require the
> first way, some require the second, and some will handle
> either.  So, I had to put in a command line switch on the
> hal_ppmc driver to allow the user to select which mode the
> driver used.  This allowed just about any EPP board to work.
> 
> As for testing, I have a set of public diagnostic programs
> on my web site for my boards, and they do communications
> reliability testing by sending random data to the board and
> then reading it back.
> 
> If I had ONLY KNOWN how big a muddle the EPP was, I likely
> would have done something different.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Thank you Dave, I have it in the list.

Joe


> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 4:40 PM Dave Matthews  wrote:
>>
>> This is what I am running.
>>
>> 03:06.0 Communication controller [0780]: MosChip Semiconductor
>> Technology Ltd. PCI 9835 Multi-I/O Controller [9710:9835] (rev 01)
>>
>> It is a Rosewell (NewEgg brand).  Looking through my order history it
>> looks like I got it in 2009 and they still sell it.
>> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166006 for
>> all of $15 then and it is still $15.
>>
>> Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Andy,

Thank you for follow up.  I have them added to the list.  One last question, 
are these all PCI cards?

Joe

> On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 21:03, Joe Hildreth  
> wrote:
> 
> Vendor ID: 1415
> Device ID:  8403
> Chipset: OX9162
> Manufacturer: Oxford Semiconductor
> Model: PCI-1284
> Notes: Works well in EPP mode with Mesa 7i43
> 
> Vendor ID: 4651
> Device ID: 5073
> Chipset: PCI 60806A
> Manufacturer:
> Model:
> Notes: Does not work. May be a serial card as it declares as-such.
> 
> Vendor ID: 9710
> Device ID: 9865
> Chipset: Moschip
> Manufacturer:
> Model: PCI 9865 Multi-I/O Controller
> Notes: Potentially useful dual-port card. Works with hal_parport, but
> does not appear to work in EPP mode with a 7i43.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B014P55X8O/
> (Goliton card) could not be made to work as it is an uncommitted IO
> chip without the driver. I threw it away so don't have the ID)


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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Thanks Andy.  I should bite the bullet and scrape up a little money for some 
Mesa cards.  They will be an excellent addition to the tutorial series.

Joe


- On Apr 23, 2019, at 11:52 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 at 17:24, Joe Hildreth  
> wrote:
> 
>> How do you test if a card works properly in EPP mode?  This would be good
>> information to add to the list for those using your hardware.
> 
> I have tested by plugging it in to a Mesa 7i43.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Jon,

> I make boards that use the parallel port as a communications
> channel for motion control.
> These use the IEEE-1284 (EPP) mode for faster communication.

How do you test if a card works properly in EPP mode?  This would be good 
information to add to the list for those using your hardware.

Joe


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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Tomp,

Perfect, the chipset is MCS9865IV and looking at the specification sheet looks 
like it can be configured in a number of formats.  Since yours has a header 
available for the second PP and no UART populated I just listed it as 2 
parallel ports.  One last question and I will leave you alone.  Is the card, 
ISA, PCI or PCIe

I have added it to the list.

Joe

Joe Hildreth 
IT Manager 
Three Rivers Hospital 
451 Hwy 13 South 
Waverly, TN 37185 
(931) 296-0217 (office) 
(931) 622-3130 (cell)

- On Apr 23, 2019, at 11:04 AM, TJoseph Powderly tjt...@gmail.com wrote:

> Joe
> On 04/23/2019 10:27 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> Tomp, Can you give me the chipset ID and what IO the card has? (#
>> Parallel Ports and # serial Ports) Joe
> lspci -vknn
> reports
> snip...
> 04:00.0 Parallel controller [0701]: NetMos Technology PCI 9865 Multi-I/O
> Controller [9710:9865] (prog-if 03 [IEEE1284])

> MCS9865IV=AA
> PCJCL9-010
> 1515
> FSA0AC229AB   on the main chip
> ---
> G536PIO9865V2.0   in green on green mask
> 
> the 2nd parport is accessed on an ide header.
> theres places for 2 serials but not populated.


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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Tomp,

Can you give me the chipset ID and what IO the card has?  (# Parallel Ports and 
# serial Ports)

Joe


- On Apr 22, 2019, at 10:49 PM, TJoseph Powderly tjt...@gmail.com wrote:

> On 04/23/2019 10:07 AM, bari wrote:
>> LSPCI
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lspci
>>
>> http://www.tutorialspoint.com/unix_commands/lspci.htm
>>
>> On 4/22/19 9:03 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> Is there a way to show this P info on a running system?
>>
> lspci -nn gets text and numbers
> ...snip...
> 04:00.0 Parallel controller [0701]: NetMos Technology PCI 9865 Multi-I/O
> Controller [9710:9865]
> 04:00.2 Parallel controller [0701]: NetMos Technology PCI 9865 Multi-I/O
> Controller [9710:9865]
> ...snip...
> hth tomp
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Jon,

I have it added to the list, can you give me the chipset numbers?

Joe


- On Apr 22, 2019, at 10:28 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

> OK, so the Siig dual-port PCI card is 131f : 2021
> 
> I'll try to get some of the other IDs shortly.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

> I make boards that use the parallel port as a communications
> channel for motion control.
> These use the IEEE-1284 (EPP) mode for faster communication.
> 
> Right now, I'm selling the Syba SD-PEX10005 board with
> MOSCHIP MCS9900CV-AA.
> It appears that the MOSCHIP MCS9901 chips also work fine.
> These are PCIe chips.
> Siig PCIe boards with the OXPCIe952 chip work with later
> versions of the Pico Systems hal_ppmc driver (mostly
> LinuxCNC 2.7 versions.)
> 
> 
> For PCI, I recommend the Siig Cyberparallel boards.  These
> use the Oxford OX9162 chip.
> Also, generic boards with the NetMos 9835 and MCS9865 work,
> with an option setting to the hal_ppmc driver for Pico
> Systems boards, it seems that these work fine with other
> drivers.
> 
> Sorry, I don't have the Vendor ID and Device ID's handy at
> the moment.  Is there a way to show this P info on a
> running system?


Jon,

running the following command will give the Vendor ID and Device ID

lspci -vvknn

vv = verbosity
k = kernel driver loaded
nn = gives both the names and ids of the vendor and device.  The numbers will 
be listed as [:]

The chipset I have discovered is best read from the chip on the card.

Joe


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Re: [Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

> 
> I bought some parport cards from Amazon and eBay a while ago to do
> something of a survey along these lines.
> One turned out to be a SCSI card :-)
> One turned out to need a driver download every restart (without which
> it had an uncommitted generic IO chip. Which might potentially be a
> really useful thing with a dedicated LinuxCNC driver
> One turned out to be fine for P-port use but not support EPP.
> And one (OxSemi chip) worked fine in all regards.
> 
> I will try to run through them again and get the data you are wanting.
> 
> What sets the base address of a card? Is it the card or the PC / BIOS?

Andy,

Thank you for helping me with this little side project.  I am looking forward 
to adding your findings to the list.

Joe



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[Emc-users] Looking fro some input from the community

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello everyone. 

I have been working on a series of videos about linuxcnc targeted towards new 
user just starting to learn about the controller. In one of my videos I talked 
about LCNC and the Parallel port. What I didn't realize was that all parallel 
ports are not the same. Some are not really parallel ports at all but rather do 
a little VooDoo with the driver to make them work, which will not work with 
LCNC. I have a few startech.com parallel addon cards that work fine with LCNC 
and have saw others on different websites that work. I also think I read 
somewhere about some cards that do not support EPP so don't work with some FPGA 
hardware. 

So the little side project I want to do, with your help, is to create a list of 
parallel port cards and their status with LinuxCNC. Currently, this page is 
located at 
http://www.myheap.com/cnc-stuff/linuxcnc-emc2/80-my-heap-articles/computer-numerical-control/linuxcnc/196-lcnc-parallel-port-cards.html
 

I would be more than happy to place a copy on the LinuxCNC wiki, forums and 
other places so that its usefulness can be fully realized. The fields of 
interest I am looking for are: 

Vendor ID: 
Device ID: 
Chipset: 
Manufacturer: 
Model: 
Notes (This will include any extra information known about the card that would 
be helpful to the end user) 

There may be more information that should be added to the list of fields, but I 
am unsure of what it would be. Leaning on your expertise can help here. 

If any of you are running LinuxCNC using an addon parallel port card, if you 
would be willing to share the information so I can add it to the list, that 
would be very helpful. If any of you have an idea on additional information 
that should be added to make it better for the next person to use, that would 
be awesome too. 

If you want to share but keep the noise down on the mailing list, feel free to 
email me at xav...@gtec.com direct. 

If you are curious, the playlist I have created from the videos is on the 
LinuxCNC forums, or you can get there direct by 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaamliiI72ntlrHKIFjh2VjmehRGgZpjm 

Thanks for your time and patience with me. 

Joe Hildreth 


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[Emc-users] Parallel Port Docs revisited

[Joe Hildreth]

I think I done a poor job of explaining my question, although I believe Andy 
Pugh got it. I created a video demonstrating what I mean, although not the 
great. Was wondering if someone would correct my mis-information or confirm 
what I think to be true. If I am correct, can we get it changed in the 
documentation. 

Here is the video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE6tW6W_5Po 

I am sorry if I am being a pain in the a$$ 

Regards, 

Joe 

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Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Port Driver Docs

[Joe Hildreth]

Thank you Andy.

  I think the driver works just fine.  I agree that the control port is 
bidirectional.  I would think that the entire control group of pins is set to 
either output (for modes in and out) and set to input (for mode x).  I am just 
trying to confirm this.  This is why I think there is a typo in the table in 
the docs.  If this is the case, can the documentation be corrected?  Honest, I 
am not trying to be a PITA.  Just trying to prepare accurate information for my 
next tutorial.

Joe Hildreth

- On 11 Jul, 2018, at 16:45, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

> On 11 July 2018 at 21:36, Joe Hildreth  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On this chart or table, it shows for the "in" column that pin 14 is an input
>> pin.  I think this is in error and should be labelled as an output.  To test 
>> my
>> theory, I installed a second PCI PP in a computer and run the stepper config
>> wizard.  I set up the first port as output and the second as input.
>>
>> In both output modes and input modes (for the ports) pin 14 is labelled as an
>> output pin.  This would make sense considering that pins 1, 14, 16 and 17
>> belong to the control group.
> 
> Wikipedia shows pin 14 as bidirectional.
> 
> I can't help feeling that someone else would have noticed by now if
> the parallel port driver didn't work?
> 
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/drivers/hal_parport.c#L707
> Shows all the control group being set as inputs or outputs.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Port Driver Docs

[Joe Hildreth]

Great article.  Thanks for sharing.

Joe

- On 11 Jul, 2018, at 16:31, John Dammeyer jo...@autoartisans.com wrote:

> I realize it's a tad off topic but I think Bjorn Ekwall wrote the first 
> parallel
> port driver for Linux a long time ago.  I worked with Bjorn in 2000 in the UK.
> Bjorn died from a Heart Attack around 2001.  He was one of the Linux Pioneers.
> https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5043
> 
> Search for his name and you mostly find a different Bjorn.  Sad that he 
> doesn't
> show up more easily with Google.
> 
> I miss our discussions
> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Joe Hildreth [mailto:j...@threerivershospital.com]
>> Sent: July-11-18 1:37 PM
>> To: emc-users
>> Subject: [Emc-users] Parallel Port Driver Docs
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I have been working on a series of tutorial videos on YouTube on CNC for
>> the Home Hobbyist.� In the tutorial I am currently working on, I am
>> discussing the parallel port.� I want to give as accurate information as I am
>> able.� My question is about the documentation found at [
>> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/parallel-port.html |
>> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/parallel-port.html ] This
>> documentation primarily talks about adding additional Parallel ports to
>> LCNC.� It states that there are three modes in which LCNC can use a PP.�
>> These are in, out and x.� It also provides a chart showing the pin direction
>> based on the mode that the port is set in.
>> 
>> On this chart or table, it shows for the "in" column that pin 14 is an input
>> pin.� I think this is in error and should be labelled as an output.� To test 
>> my
>> theory, I installed a second PCI PP in a computer and run the stepper config
>> wizard.  I set up the first port as output and the second as input.
>> 
>> In both output modes and input modes (for the ports) pin 14 is labelled as
>> an output pin.� This would make sense considering that pins 1, 14, 16 and 17
>> belong to the control group.
>> 
>> So if this is correct, then the documentation needs to be updated to reflect
>> that.� If I am incorrect, can someone explain why this pin is input when the
>> mode is set to input?
>> 
>> I also understand that in mode x, that the control port (pins 1, 14, 16 and 
>> 17)
>> are set to inputs but at risk because the physical pins on the port may not 
>> be
>> open collector.
>> 
>> If you are interested, the play list for the tutorials can be found here: [
>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaamliiI72ntlrHKIFjh2VjmehRGgZp
>> jm |
>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaamliiI72ntlrHKIFjh2VjmehRGgZp
>> jm ] I have 9 tutorials there and working on number 10.� The idea behind
>> them is to give enough information over time that a new hobbyist can get
>> into some form of CNC.� Rather than giving specific case examples, I want
>> the information to be applicable to whatever they are wanting to set up.�
>> Router, mill, plasma, lathe, 3D printer or whatever.� Constructive criticism
>> is welcome, but I do give a disclaimer.� I am not a teacher, engineer or a
>> machinist.� Just a home hobbyist who wants to give back to the community.
>> 
>> Thanks for your help and input.� It is greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Joe Hildreth
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[Emc-users] Parallel Port Driver Docs

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all,

I have been working on a series of tutorial videos on YouTube on CNC for the 
Home Hobbyist.  In the tutorial I am currently working on, I am discussing the 
parallel port.  I want to give as accurate information as I am able.  My 
question is about the documentation found at [ 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/parallel-port.html | 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/parallel-port.html ] This documentation 
primarily talks about adding additional Parallel ports to LCNC.  It states that 
there are three modes in which LCNC can use a PP.  These are in, out and x.  It 
also provides a chart showing the pin direction based on the mode that the port 
is set in.

On this chart or table, it shows for the "in" column that pin 14 is an input 
pin.  I think this is in error and should be labelled as an output.  To test my 
theory, I installed a second PCI PP in a computer and run the stepper config 
wizard.  I set up the first port as output and the second as input.

In both output modes and input modes (for the ports) pin 14 is labelled as an 
output pin.  This would make sense considering that pins 1, 14, 16 and 17 
belong to the control group.

So if this is correct, then the documentation needs to be updated to reflect 
that.  If I am incorrect, can someone explain why this pin is input when the 
mode is set to input?

I also understand that in mode x, that the control port (pins 1, 14, 16 and 17) 
are set to inputs but at risk because the physical pins on the port may not be 
open collector.

If you are interested, the play list for the tutorials can be found here: [ 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaamliiI72ntlrHKIFjh2VjmehRGgZpjm | 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaamliiI72ntlrHKIFjh2VjmehRGgZpjm ] I 
have 9 tutorials there and working on number 10.  The idea behind them is to 
give enough information over time that a new hobbyist can get into some form of 
CNC.  Rather than giving specific case examples, I want the information to be 
applicable to whatever they are wanting to set up.  Router, mill, plasma, 
lathe, 3D printer or whatever.  Constructive criticism is welcome, but I do 
give a disclaimer.  I am not a teacher, engineer or a machinist.  Just a home 
hobbyist who wants to give back to the community.

Thanks for your help and input.  It is greatly appreciated.

Joe Hildreth 
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Re: [Emc-users] parallel ports configuration

[Joe Hildreth]

I think that would depend on the machine you are placing the cards in.  A SFF 
(Small Form Factor) machine will require a low profile card while a regular 
desktop will take a full size card.

Joe

- On 11 Jul, 2018, at 13:13, yomin estiven jaramillo munera 
yejm...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi, Gene. we have decided to use the Mesa 5i25 for our application, in this
> case could you recommended us to use the standard profile or the low
> profile?, so i would like to known, how is the installation process of this
> card in the machine? thanks you.
> 
> El mar., 10 de jul. de 2018 a la(s) 21:53, Gene Heskett (
> ghesk...@shentel.net) escribió:
> 
>> On Tuesday 10 July 2018 20:13:27 yomin estiven jaramillo munera wrote:
>>
>> > Hi guys, I need configure 2 parallel ports  PCI express (
>> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WCH) for a application of 6
>> > axis. however I am having some problems with the recognition of
>> > parallel ports in Debian.
>> > Someone knows what can I do with that?
>> > I need that linuxcnc recognizes the 2 ports. but i must do a initial
>> > configuration from terminal.
>> > can you help me?
>>
>> Does this machine have a std pci slot? If it does, a Mesa 5i25 card will
>> give you a pair of parports, independent of the machines own parport,
>> and do it with more i/o bandwidth than you'll get from adding another
>> parport card. I have 2 machines setup with the 5i25, and both work well.
>> A 4 axis G0704, which uses both ports and and a 7x12 lathe that so far
>> is only using one of them.
>>
>> You can use 2 more or less std parport breakout boards, and I highly
>> recommend the SainSmart boards for that as they have no signal
>> distorting opto-isolators in any output. They do isolate the inputs
>> however, which limits the speed of any spindle encoders involved unless
>> the opto is snipped out of the circuit and bypassed in those two inputs.
>> I am an old C.E.T., so thats easy for me to do.
>>
>> I have no clue if Peter (mesanet) has a pci-express version of that card.
>> You might ask, or an old off lease Dell usually has a pair of pci slots,
>> and can be had for less than a 100 dollar bill from places like
>> pcliquidater.com.
>>
>> Another, more pricey way might be to use a 7i90HD and a trio of 7i42TA's,
>> which are required to protect the 3 volt circuitry of the 7i90, which I
>> am running a converted Sheldon 11x36 with, that gives you 72 gpio's and
>> several choices of FPGA configs. So I am doing what needs to be done to
>> run this lathe and still have around 25 gpio's I haven't used. This card
>> can be driven from a parport, or from an SPI, which I am doing from a
>> raspi 3b on that machine.
>>
>> I hope this helps, yomin estiven jaramillo munera, where are you?
>>
>> --
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> Genes Web page 
>>
>>
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[Emc-users] Beginner Development questions concerning github and git

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all, 

I am new to using git and github and have run into a problem. I apologise for 
the length. 

So first the back story. 

I created a manpage for the hal_manualtoolchange userspace component and I 
would like it added to the linuxcnc repo. These are the steps I took. 

1) I forked the linuxcnc repository to my github account. 
2) I cloned my copy of the repository to my local machine. 
3) While in the master branch, I copied the manpage to 
docs/man/man1/hal_manualtoolchange.1 
4) In git, I added the file to the staging area. 
5) I done a commit and signed it 
6) I pushed the changes back to my repository on github. 
7) I made a pull request to add my changes. 

At this point, I went to the linuxcnc-devel channel on the IRC to make sure 
that I done it correct. Chris Radek was very kind and helpful to me there. He 
seen the changes and merged them. Now when I signed, I misread the docs and 
obfuscated my email address. Chris, seeing this changed the email address so 
that it was not obfuscated and also merged it with the 2.7 branch. Well, the 
next thing I know, as whatever magic happens there, when I go to the website I 
see the manpage in both the 2.7 docs and the 2.8-pre docs. I am happy and feel 
like I accomplished something. 

So I come back here to brag, and sebastian suggests that I am in error about a 
portion of the document. So I want to fix it, so I do the following. 

1) On my local machine, I create am upstream remote pointing to the main 
linuxcnc repository 
2) I pull the upstream to my computer 

This is where it gets fuzzy. 

3) I merge the upstream to my local master and get a message about a conflict. 
4) I done a commit and was supposed to edit the file, but didn't and now it 
shows both changes merged. 

Rememeber Chris changed my email to be correctly formatted. 

5) I committed and signed the pushed to my copy of the repo on github. 

Then I made the following observations. 

It updated the pull request, reflecting my new commit. When I look at the 
changed files, you will see that I didn't make the edit and it shows the plus 
lines and minus lines etc. 

So I need to fix this, and need some advice. My thoughts are to do the 
following. 

1) run a git reset to the previous commit on my local machine, which is Chris' 
merge to branch 2.7. 

If I do this, then commit again, will I get the chance to edit the file? 

What is the best way for me to handle this, so that everything in the pull 
request is right. 

Additionally, When Chris merged the file to branch 2.7, why is the pull request 
still open? 

I am sorry for all the blabber here, but it is kicking my arse a bit. 

Joe 

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Re: [Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

I will be happy to do that.  Did you notice any other discrepancies with the 
man page.  It was a shot from the hip in a way since I am trying to learn and 
document at the same time.  :-)

Joe

- On Apr 6, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 11:25:06AM -0500, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> I probably should correct that and resubmit it, yes?  Thanks for
>> reading it, hind-sight being 20/20 and all, I probably should have
>> asked you to look it over before submitting it.
> 
> No problem.  It's already a solid step forward, and iterating is how we
> make things better.
> 
> Update your local linuxcnc git clone, then make a new commit that fixes
> the issue, and make another PR and one of us will merge it.
> 
> Ask here or on IRC if any of that is unclear.
> 
> 
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

I probably should correct that and resubmit it, yes?  Thanks for reading it, 
hind-sight being 20/20 and all, I probably should have asked you to look it 
over before submitting it.

Joe

- On Apr 6, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 10:46:56AM -0500, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> Well, what a learning experience that was.  Have the manpage written,
>> forked the linuxcnc project, added my page, committed and signed,
>> and done a pull request. (With some help from some folks on the devel
>> IRC channel).  At any rate, it shows up in the documentation for 2.7
>> and 2.8-pre so I am happy.  Hopefully, I didn't butcher the manpage
>> up too bad.
> 
> It looks great, thanks!
> 
> A nit-pick about the Description section: it seems to imply that
> hal_manualtoolchange stops the spindle and pauses the program, but it's
> actually Motion that does that, before asking hal_manualtoolchange to
> change tools.
> 
> 
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

Sebastian,

Well, what a learning experience that was.  Have the manpage written, forked 
the linuxcnc project, added my page, committed and signed, and done a pull 
request. (With some help from some folks on the devel IRC channel).  At any 
rate, it shows up in the documentation for 2.7 and 2.8-pre so I am happy.  
Hopefully, I didn't butcher the manpage up too bad.

Thanks for the encouragement.  

Joe

- On Apr 4, 2017, at 7:03 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

> On 04/04/2017 05:54 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> DOH!
>>
>> I guess I should have dug a little more.  Thanks Andy.
>>
>> So would you guys still like me to tackle the man page for the component.  
>> Been
>> reading up on how to construct them, and I am willing to give it a go.
> 
> It would be good to have a manpage for that component, but I think it's
> not urgent.  Your is the first request for information i remember seeing
> about it.
> 
> Writing manpages in roff is rough, but the halstreamer manpage i
> mentioned earlier is written in asciidoc, which is much simpler.
> 
> 
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Documentation - hal_manualtoolchange manpage

[Joe Hildreth]

OK, I see what you mean, the change_button is an input pin of the component, 
when it is triggered the component will set the changed pin high.

Some days, I wonder why I get out of bed.  haha

Sorry for all the chatter.

Joe

- On Apr 5, 2017, at 1:48 PM, Joe Hildreth j...@threerivershospital.com 
wrote:

> Sebastian,
> 
> Thanks for the information and the patience with me.  In the config created by
> stepconf on my machine I see the following in the hal file.
> 
> loadusr -W hal_manualtoolchange
> net tool-change iocontrol.0.tool-change => hal_manualtoolchange.change
> net tool-changed iocontrol.0.tool-changed <= hal_manualtoolchange.changed
> net tool-number iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number => hal_manualtoolchange.number
> net tool-prepare-loopback iocontrol.0.tool-prepare => 
> iocontrol.0.tool-prepared
> 
> So to add the external button, assuming it is on parallel port pin 15 I would
> add the following?
> 
> net tool-changed-btn iocontrol.0.tool-changed <= parport.0.pin-15-in
> 
> I thought that there would need to be some separation of the two output pins,
> parport.0.pin-15-in and hal_manualtoolchange.changed in order to feed it to 
> the
> input pin iocontrol.0.tool-changed.  That is why I thought of using the OR
> gate.  I was led to this reasoning from the
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html page with this line ( I
> have Marked with ***):
> 
> =
> A pin can be connected to a signal if it obeys the following rules:
> 
>An IN pin can always be connected to a signal
> 
>An IO pin can be connected unless there’s an OUT pin on the signal
> 
> ***An OUT pin can be connected only if there are no other OUT or IO pins 
> on
> the signal
> ===
> 
> It looks like I didn't quite understand that.
> 
> Joe
> 
> - On Apr 5, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:
> 
>> On 04/05/2017 09:58 AM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>>> I have a good portion of the manpage written for this user component,
>>> but have a question.
>> 
>> Great!
>> 
>> 
>>> If one wanted to use the hal_manualtoolchange.change_button as an
>>> external button, should this input be ORed with the
>>> hal_manualtoolchange.changed and then the OR output sent to
>>> iocontrol.0.tool-changed this giving the option of either the dialog
>>> continue button OR an external button?
>> 
>> No.
>> 
>> hal_manualtoolchange treats its .change_button input pin exactly like it
>> treats a click on the button in its GUI window.
>> 
>> The intended use of that pin is for if you want a physical button on the
>> machine's control panel to let the operator signal completion of a
>> manual tool change.  You'd bring the physical button into HAL (via a
>> parport input pin or a hostmot2 gpio input or similar), and wire it
>> directly to the .change_button input.  Then when LinuxCNC executes M6,
>> hal_manualtoolchange will pop up its GUI window, and *either* a mouse
>> click in the GUI or pushing the physical button will signal to
>> hal_manualtoolchange that the tool change is complete.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sebastian Kuzminsky
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Documentation - hal_manualtoolchange manpage

[Joe Hildreth]

Sebastian,

Thanks for the information and the patience with me.  In the config created by 
stepconf on my machine I see the following in the hal file.

loadusr -W hal_manualtoolchange
net tool-change iocontrol.0.tool-change => hal_manualtoolchange.change
net tool-changed iocontrol.0.tool-changed <= hal_manualtoolchange.changed
net tool-number iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number => hal_manualtoolchange.number
net tool-prepare-loopback iocontrol.0.tool-prepare => iocontrol.0.tool-prepared

So to add the external button, assuming it is on parallel port pin 15 I would 
add the following?

net tool-changed-btn iocontrol.0.tool-changed <= parport.0.pin-15-in

I thought that there would need to be some separation of the two output pins, 
parport.0.pin-15-in and hal_manualtoolchange.changed in order to feed it to the 
input pin iocontrol.0.tool-changed.  That is why I thought of using the OR 
gate.  I was led to this reasoning from the 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html page with this line ( I 
have Marked with ***):

=
A pin can be connected to a signal if it obeys the following rules:

An IN pin can always be connected to a signal

An IO pin can be connected unless there’s an OUT pin on the signal

***An OUT pin can be connected only if there are no other OUT or IO pins on 
the signal
===

It looks like I didn't quite understand that.

Joe

- On Apr 5, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

> On 04/05/2017 09:58 AM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> I have a good portion of the manpage written for this user component,
>> but have a question.
> 
> Great!
> 
> 
>> If one wanted to use the hal_manualtoolchange.change_button as an
>> external button, should this input be ORed with the
>> hal_manualtoolchange.changed and then the OR output sent to
>> iocontrol.0.tool-changed this giving the option of either the dialog
>> continue button OR an external button?
> 
> No.
> 
> hal_manualtoolchange treats its .change_button input pin exactly like it
> treats a click on the button in its GUI window.
> 
> The intended use of that pin is for if you want a physical button on the
> machine's control panel to let the operator signal completion of a
> manual tool change.  You'd bring the physical button into HAL (via a
> parport input pin or a hostmot2 gpio input or similar), and wire it
> directly to the .change_button input.  Then when LinuxCNC executes M6,
> hal_manualtoolchange will pop up its GUI window, and *either* a mouse
> click in the GUI or pushing the physical button will signal to
> hal_manualtoolchange that the tool change is complete.
> 
> 
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky

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[Emc-users] Documentation - hal_manualtoolchange manpage

[Joe Hildreth]

I have a good portion of the manpage written for this user component, but have 
a question. 

If one wanted to use the hal_manualtoolchange.change_button as an external 
button, should this input be ORed with the hal_manualtoolchange.changed and 
then the OR output sent to iocontrol.0.tool-changed this giving the option of 
either the dialog continue button OR an external button? 

Thanks, 

Joe 

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Re: [Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

DOH!

I guess I should have dug a little more.  Thanks Andy.

So would you guys still like me to tackle the man page for the component.  Been 
reading up on how to construct them, and I am willing to give it a go.

- On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:21 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

> On 4 April 2017 at 19:56, Joe Hildreth <j...@threerivershospital.com> wrote:
>> I am looking through the docs and cannot find a man page for the
>> hal_manualtoolchange userspace component,
> 
> It is hidden:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gui/axis.html#_manual_tool_change
> 
> --
> atp

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Re: [Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

Thanks Dewey that helped a bunch.

- On Apr 4, 2017, at 4:42 PM, Dewey Garrett dgarr...@panix.com wrote:

>> So this tells me what pins are created,
>> the only one I am unsure of is the
>> change_button, can someone explain this one?
> 
> By default, one must click the 'Continue'
> button on the tool change popup gui to
> acknowledge the manual tool change.
> 
> The pin 'hal_manualtoolchange.change_button'
> may be connected through hal to a pin
> wired to a physical hardware button to
> allow acknowledgement by other means.  The
> button could be part of a panel or pendant
> for instance.
> 
> To demonstrate usage from the command line:
> 
> $ sim_pin: hal_manualtoolchange.change_button
> --
> Dewey Garrett

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Re: [Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

Sebastian,

I will be happy to try to write it.

Joe

- On Apr 4, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

> On 04/04/2017 01:13 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
>> Looking at the ha;_manualtoolchange.py file, I see the following:
>>
>> h = hal.component("hal_manualtoolchange")
>> h.newpin("number", hal.HAL_S32, hal.HAL_IN)
>> h.newpin("change", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN)
>> h.newpin("change_button", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN)
>> h.newpin("changed", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
>> h.ready()
>>
>> So this tells me what pins are created, the only one I am unsure of is the
>> change_button, can someone explain this one?
>>
>> I know this seems petty, but I am trying to wrap my head around it enough so 
>> I
>> can teach a few high schoolers what is going on.  Or maybe a little glimpse 
>> of
>> how the parts fit and work together.  Before I can do that, I need to teach
>> myself.
>>
>> My impression is the hal_manualtoolchange component does the following:
>>
>> a) receives the tool number via hal_manualtoolchange.number pin
>> b) receives a command to change the tool via hal_manualtoolchange.change pin
>> c) The component then opens the dialog informing the user to change to tool 
>> #X
>> d) User does the tool change and clicks the okay button.
>> e) the okay button send signal via hal_manualtoolchange.changed
>>
>> am I close?
> 
> You're exactly correct, that's what hal_manualtoolchange does.
> 
> The M6 g-code triggers the tool change operation, and blocks until
> hal_manualtoolchange asserts the .changed pin.
> 
> 
> You're also right that we don't have a manpage for that component.
> Since you know it so well now, why not try writing one?  It's easy and
> fun!  ;-)
> 
> Take a look at docs/src/man/man1/halstreamer.txt for inspiration.
> 
> Some docs on how to check out and modify LinuxCNC and how to contribute
> the changes back to the community can be found here:
> 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/code/building-linuxcnc.html
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/code/contributing-to-linuxcnc.html
> 
> 
> --
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

Looking at the ha;_manualtoolchange.py file, I see the following:

h = hal.component("hal_manualtoolchange")
h.newpin("number", hal.HAL_S32, hal.HAL_IN)
h.newpin("change", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN)
h.newpin("change_button", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_IN)
h.newpin("changed", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
h.ready()

So this tells me what pins are created, the only one I am unsure of is the 
change_button, can someone explain this one?

I know this seems petty, but I am trying to wrap my head around it enough so I 
can teach a few high schoolers what is going on.  Or maybe a little glimpse of 
how the parts fit and work together.  Before I can do that, I need to teach 
myself.

My impression is the hal_manualtoolchange component does the following:

a) receives the tool number via hal_manualtoolchange.number pin
b) receives a command to change the tool via hal_manualtoolchange.change pin
c) The component then opens the dialog informing the user to change to tool #X
d) User does the tool change and clicks the okay button.
e) the okay button send signal via hal_manualtoolchange.changed

am I close?  

Joe

- On Apr 4, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Joe Hildreth j...@threerivershospital.com 
wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I am looking through the docs and cannot find a man page for the
> hal_manualtoolchange userspace component, and only see reference to it in the
> HAL Examples section of the doc. Also missing is the man page for the parport
> rt module. Who do I need to request for these docs, or is it worth the time?
> 
> Thanks for putting up with me folks! :-)
> 
> Joe
> 
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[Emc-users] Missing Documentation - I think

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all, 

I am looking through the docs and cannot find a man page for the 
hal_manualtoolchange userspace component, and only see reference to it in the 
HAL Examples section of the doc. Also missing is the man page for the parport 
rt module. Who do I need to request for these docs, or is it worth the time? 

Thanks for putting up with me folks! :-) 

Joe 

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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[Joe Hildreth]

Gene,

I commented out the following variables:

[EMCMOT] section
 COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
 COMM_WAIT = 0.010

[TRAJ] section
 CYCLE_TIME = 0.010

Fired up the machine with the link on the desktop and didn't see any warnings 
or anything through the axis gui.  Was able to jog all three axis of the 
machine.  I didn't have time before leaving for work to do any more testing.  
(After reading your response a second time, I see you also removed the 
CYCLE_TIME for [EMCIO].  That was not one I was asking about because I found it 
in the INI documentation. although I see your point.)

My setup is parport driven stepper system with configs created by stepconf 
using the axis gui.  I launched the controller with the link that stepconf 
placed on the destop.  Should I be starting it from command line to see the 
error you have or something else?

John suggest I open an issue on this but want to make sure I am not including 
something that I shouldn't or vice versa before I do.

Regards.

Joe Hildreth 

> 
> Interesting comment, John K.
> 
> So I fired up the editor and took both CYCLE_TIME settings in the .ini
> file out of the ini file for my small mill.
> 
> On running it, trajectory did not complain, but emcio did, saying it was
> useing the default timing of .01 seconds, same as the ini file setting.
> That did not prevent it from running. So I restored that one, but left
> it commented out in the [TRAJ] section.
> 
> Based on that, the [TRAJ] section CYCLE_TIME could probably go away.
> 
> But does changing the one in [EMCIO] actually do anything in the way of
> optimizing things better when generating motor steps in software? Or
> conversely in a 5i25 or work-alike card where there is not a base
> thread?
> 
> Whomever has kicked those "tires" recently should be able to comment.
> Adding to the wiki files under EMCIO would also be a nice clarification.
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[Joe Hildreth]

John,

These entries were generated with stepconf, should stepconf be updated so as 
not to include them.  Also, just to verify, all three variable can be removed 
from these two sections?

[EMCMOT] section
COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
COMM_WAIT = 0.010

[TRAJ] section
CYCLE_TIME = 0.010


Joe Hildreth

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 2:32 PM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:

> You can comment them out and LinuxCNC runs just fine, that tells me they
> are leftover bit rot.
> 
> JT
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

John,
Todd,
Nicklas,

Just wanted to thank you gentlemen one more time for the help.  I really 
appreciate it.

Regards,

Joe Hildreth 

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

John,

Thank you again for the help and information.  I will try this out when I get 
home.  One last question, when 2.8 is released, is it a matter then of just 
changing the software sources to be on that release or would it be best to just 
keep on the buildbot sources?

Thank you again for your help.

Regards,

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:35 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:

> Hi Joe,
> 
> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
> 
> You just need to change the deb line in the synaptic package manager to
> point to:
> 
> deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt
> and
> deb-src http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rtpreempt
> 
> and follow the instructions to add the key.
> JT

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

John,

Thank you for the information.  Todd mentioned that I could run the 2.8-pre 
version, but I am unsure how to get it to my wheezy box.  Are there software 
sources I need to point to to do this, or something else.  I would be happy 
with a link to some instructions.

Also, is there a time line for the 2.8 release?  Should I just wait?

Regards,

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:13 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:

> The gantry component was a work around for 2.7. The JA branch has been
> merged into Master for some time now. Master is the development branch
> and when 2.8 is released it will contain most if not all of the things
> currently in master.
> 
> JT

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

Todd,

Thank you for the feedback.  Can you point me to some information on how to get 
the 2.8-pre installed on my debian wheezy box?

Thanks,

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 30, 2017, at 11:05 AM, Todd Zuercher zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:

> The current Master branch (2.8-pre) is a descendant of JA14, and would be the
> preferred method for a gantry with independent parallel joints on a single
> axis.
> 

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[Emc-users] Looking for advice on LinuxCNC Version

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all, 

I built a gantry type router a year or so ago and was more interested in 
getting it running than anything else. My gantry runs along the Y axis and has 
2 motors (joints). I am running the Axis GUI on LinuxCNC 2.6.x. 

My current setup has the ystep and ydir signals driving two motors. Slaved 
together is maybe the word I am looking for. See HAL snippet: 

net ystep => parport.0.pin-04-out 
net ydir => parport.0.pin-05-out 
net ystep => parport.0.pin-06-out 
net ydir => parport.0.pin-07-out 

I have cut loads of stuff with the machine and feel like I am at a point I want 
to make it better. Up to now, I would bump the gantry against a hard stop to 
square it and home the axes by hand. I want to add homing switches which brings 
me to my first observations. 

1) I know that the 2.7 version of LinuxCNC has the gantry component and I have 
looked at a couple of configurations on how that it set up, so I believe the 
gantry joints can be homed independently and squared by adjusting how far the 
joint is moved off the switch. 

2) I have seen a couple of post from BigJohnT were he recommends using the 2.8 
pre version (JA14 branch) as trivkins now handles an axis with multiple joints. 
I have found a little information on this but may be able to muddle my way 
through configuration. 

So, my questions are: 

1) If I am going to go through all the work of setting this up, which would be 
the recommended version? 2.7 with the gantry component, or the JA14 using 
trivkins? 

2) If the JA14 branch is the recommended version to use, how do I get it 
installed? My controller computer was installed using the Debian Wheezy hybrid 
ISO. 

3) Will the JA14 branch eventually be released as version 2.8? If I use the 
JA14 branch and it is released as 2.8, how does that affect me? Does it 
auto-magically become 2.8 or am I still on a developmental branch? If not, how 
do I switch back over to the 2.8 stable release after it comes out. 

If you have references you would recommend for reading, I will be happy to read 
them. Or other advice. I know you guys get a lot of gantry homing question 
stuff and I hope I am not being too much of a pain. 

Thank you for your advice, 

Joe Hildreth 
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Re: [Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[Joe Hildreth]

It's me again ... :-)

While in the [TRAJ] section of the INI file is see the variable CYCLE_TIME = 
0.010, but is not mentioned in the INI config documents.  I am only guessing 
that this is the polling interval time for the trajectory planner but am not 
sure.  Can I add this to my list?

Thanks again, sorry to be a pain.

Joe Hildreth 

- On Mar 29, 2017, at 3:35 PM, Joe Hildreth j...@threerivershospital.com 
wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I am going through the INI file of my stepper based Gantry machine and am
> looking at the [EMCMOT] section. In this section I see two variables:
> 
> COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
> COMM_WAIT = 0.010
> 
> I am guessing they have something to do with the communication times, but the
> INI Configuration section of the documentation does not mention these, and I
> see no reference to them in the core component motion section of the
> documentation.
> 
> Can someone explain these to me and maybe add them to the INI config docs?
> 
> Many thanks for your help, patience and time.
> 
> Joe Hildreth
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[Emc-users] Documentaion Question / Addition

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all, 

I am going through the INI file of my stepper based Gantry machine and am 
looking at the [EMCMOT] section. In this section I see two variables: 

COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0 
COMM_WAIT = 0.010 

I am guessing they have something to do with the communication times, but the 
INI Configuration section of the documentation does not mention these, and I 
see no reference to them in the core component motion section of the 
documentation. 

Can someone explain these to me and maybe add them to the INI config docs? 

Many thanks for your help, patience and time. 

Joe Hildreth 
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[Emc-users] Documentation Clarification

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all, 

Was reading in the HAL documentation and I found an inconsistency. 

 
2.2 Examining the HAL 

In the section under Show Pins the following text appears: 

"... hundreds of pins. But right now there are only nine pins. All eight of 
these pins are floating point, and carry data out of the siggen component. 
Since ..." 

I think the work "All" in the "All eight of these pins" Should be removed, or 
perhaps the text changed to mention the other "bit" pin. 
 

I hope this was the place to mention it. 

Thanks, 

Joe 


Joe Hildreth 
IT Manager 
Three Rivers Hospital 
451 Hwy 13 South 
Waverly, TN 37185 
(931) 296-0217 (office) 
(931) 622-3130 (cell) 
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[Emc-users] Classic Ladder and PyVCP Question in Stepconf

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello all, 

I posted the stuff below to the forums, but thought I would ask here as well. 

I was playing around with StepConf Wizard last night, looking at what exactly 
was added to the configuration files when you make selections on the Advanced 
Configuration page. I have determined the following. 

To keep it short, when selecting the check box under PyVCP to include 
connections to HAL seems to produce no new code, but I suspect that is where 
the line 

POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal 

is added to the [HAL] section of the machine's INI file. 

Is mu assumption correct on this? 

Second, when selecting the checkbox for including connections to HAL under the 
classic ladder section seems to produce no changes in the config files, but 
again I suspect that this line 

HALFILE = custom.hal 

is added to the [HAL] section of the machine's INI file. 

Is this assumption correct. 

Also, I noted on a new Stepconf Wizard config, without using PyVCP or HALUI, or 
Classic Ladder, the same two files are added to the machine's INI file. 

Now, I understand that custom.hal is where you can put connections for your 
ladder program and not worry about them being overwritten if you use Stepconf 
again, and the custom_postgui.hal file exits to create connections after the 
GUI has been created. So I suppose my question is the following? 

Are the two above mentioned check boxes meant to perform this function or do 
they actually do something else? 

If they are meant to provide this functionality, then they seem unneeded 
because stepconf will create the entries whether you want them or not. 

I know it is an obtuse question, but I just want to make sure I understand what 
is happening behind the scenes. 

Joe 

Joe Hildreth 
IT Manager 
Three Rivers Hospital 
451 Hwy 13 South 
Waverly, TN 37185 
(931) 296-0217 (office) 
(931) 622-3130 (cell) 
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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

All,

I just wanted to take a minute and thank all of you for the help, links, 
advice, (c).  I really appreciate it.

I have decided that I will bring the software estop out and use it with the 
mechanical estop(s) to just drop all the power from the motor drivers, Router, 
Vacuum, (c).  I will also bring the estop condition back into LinuxCNC, not 
because it really matters, but just so the software recognizes the stopped 
condition.

Again, thanks so much for all you help and advice.  I really was over thinking 
it or something.  Having been in computer networking in the healthcare industry 
for the last 15 years, I have got into the habit of over thinking as part of 
the CYA you perpetually have to do because the government constantly mandates 
it.

You folk really are a blessing to have as a community.

Joe Hildreth 

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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

Bruce,

Yeah, I suppose I have been beating the horse to death with the questions. 
Sorry.  But hey, when you don't know a lot about it you have to start 
somewhere, right?  Thanks for all the help and clarification.

After I sent the email, I went off in search of relay logic circuits.  After 
reading a couple of articles I seen that I had it wron in my head.

Talking about easy cheap MC's, I loved the PIC, simple to code, implement and 
cheap on the wallet.

I am off to look for circuit examples.  Thanks for being so patient.

Regards,

Joe

- On Nov 7, 2014, at 11:05 PM, Bruce Layne linux...@thinkingdevices.com 
wrote:

 Joe,
 
 In the words of Roseanne Rosannadanna, you ask a lot of questions! :-)
 
 You don't wire the coils of relays in series for relay logic.  The coil
 voltage is selected to match the voltage you want to use to activate
 it... 5VDC, 12VDC, 24VDC, 120VAC, etc.  You wire the relay contacts in
 series to implement an AND function (as is the case with your E-stop
 switches and a relay that mirrors the status of the internal LinuxCNC
 E-stop signal, and any other relay controlled signal you want to
 generate an E-stop).  You'd wire the contacts from different relays in
 parallel to implement an OR function.
 
 The reason I suggested using relay logic for this application is
 simplicity.   You'll need a relay to externalize the internal E-stop
 status anyway, so just wire the contacts in series with any E-stop
 switches you have and you're finished.  Why add any discrete logic ICs
 to that?  It's needless complexity.
 
 I'm generally a big fan of implementing logic in software or firmware.
 I've replaced a lot of goofy 1950s technology relay logic where relays
 and electromechanical timers were used in the 1990s because someone
 didn't know how to use a PLC or (my favorite) a one dollar RISC
 microcontroller.  But if you already have the relay and that's all you
 need, why add an Arduino to drive the relay?
 
 If you search for E-stop circuit and look at the images, you'll see
 lots of examples and it'll make sense.
 
 There are also some standard circuits for input power disconnects (I
 don't go to that formality for my small CNC machines) with
 fuses/breakers, ON and OFF pushbutton switches that latch the ON
 condition until the OFF button is pressed, etc.
 
 
 Bruce

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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

John,

Thanks for the link.  I took a close look at it and then read the man pages for 
estop_latch and iocontrol.  I think I have a grip on it.  Well for now.  Thanks 
again for the link.

Joe

- On Nov 8, 2014, at 6:37 AM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

 Coordinating an external E-Stop with LinuxCNC can be done with the
 ESTOP_LATCH component as described here:
 
 http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/47-hal-examples/25861-external-e-stop
 
 JT
 
 On 11/7/2014 3:35 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
 Bruce,

 One more question.  If I wired it like my last email, then LinuxCNC would not
 have any clue that I hit the external E-Stop.  Would it be benifitial to 
 bring
 the signal back in anyway, just to let the software know we killed it
 externally?  Otherwise, I imagine that the software will continue to send
 motion information and continue to plot like nothing ever happened.

 Thanks,

 Joe

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[Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello everyone, 

I am sure these questions are asked all the time but I have found nothing that 
really covers what I am looking for. (But maybe I am not too good with the 
search.) 

I have built a CNC Gantry router based on the KRMx01 design from Kronos 
Robotics. But instead of using the electronics and Mach3 he suggested, I am 
using electronics, motors and Linux CNC. 

The basic machine is up and running and I am using it to cut more parts for the 
machine. I am to the point now that I need to think E-stop, limit and home 
switches, vacuum control (dust collection) and router PID. 

My setup is a C10 (cnc4pc) BOB, (4) CW230 stepper drivers, (2) 36vdc power 
supplies (each feeding 2, CW230 drivers) and (1) 5vdc supply enabling the BOB. 
The CW230 drivers do not have a charge pump or anything like that, though they 
do have a pin called REST that according to the sparse documentation says will 
allow the motor to free spin. (I guess it may be considered an enable) 

Because I have a couple of teenage boys and a wife who have expressed an 
interest in using the machine, I need to make sure it can be stopped in the 
event something unplanned happened. Here is my thought and also where I need 
some guidance on best practice or acceptable practice. 

1) Connect external E-Stop to input pin on controller 
2) Use HAL to logic glue the AXIS GUI estop and AXIS GUI Power button together 
so that IF both E-Stops are on the closed position AND the power is on in AXIS 
GUI THEN allow charge pump signal on output pin of BOB 
3) Connect cnc4pc part C4 (charge pump) inputs to charge pump signal on the 
corresponding output pin on the BOB. The output of the charge pump is a relay 
with the choice of NO or NC contacts. If the charge pump frequency falls above 
or below the operating threshhold, then use this output as a trigger. 
4) Connect the output to (2) C8 (cnc4pc part number) AC relays with 5 volt 
input to connect / disconnect the AC side of the (2) 36vdc power supplies that 
power the CW230 stepper drivers. 

In my simple mind, this should provide the following safety feature. 

A) The machine will only run if both E-Stops (external E-Stop and AXIS GUI 
E-stop) are in the closed positions AND the power button (AXIS GUI) is on. 
Allowing the Charge pump signal to be generated on the output pin of the BOB 
enabling the power to the motors through the Charge Pump and AC Relays. 

B) If either Estop is opened, then the Charge pump signal will be stopped 
causing the power to the supplies to be cut by the AC Relays from the Charge 
Pump. 

C) If the computer crashes and the LPT port is left in an unknown state, the 
charge pump signal should be gone causing the power to the motors to be cut. 

D) Avoid any start up random signals to the LPT port being sent to the motors 
because the drivers will not be powered up. 

Kind of long, but am I on the right track here. Just want to have a margin of 
safety if my boys or wife is trying to use the machine. 

If you are interested, I have a detailed build of this machine, including 
screen casts of LinuxCNC hybrid install, configuration to this point, etc on my 
website which you can see by going to 
http://myheap.com/krmx01-cnc-router/krmx01-build-log.html 

I will be adding this (E-Stop, charge pump, AC relays) to the pages too 
including how to configure and the logic behind the solution. I am hoping it to 
be a resource to others like me who are only in it on the hobby level and still 
have the HUGE learning curves to make it over. 

Many thanks, 

Joe 

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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

Bruce,

Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.

So I can take this approach then:

1) Use the internal E-Stop as an output on the BOB (Use this as in input to my 
AND gate)
2) Use the external E-stop which is normally closed as the second input to my 
AND gate)
3) Use the output of the Charge pump signal from the BOB as the third input to 
the AND gate.

4) The output of the AND gate to drive the TTL inputs of my AC Relays to 
enable/disable power to the motors.

This way, I still have both E-Stops (Or additional ones by cascading E-stops) 
and the charge pump signal to rely on?

I could make a PC board for an AND gate with Vcc and ground in with a 
decoupling cap and just bring the inputs and out puts to screw terminals.  This 
way, it would be nice and modular, cheap and fit in any corner of my 
electronics drawer that slides in the computer rack.

My spindle is a Hitachi router, so not sure if it is even possible to brake.  
It will get wired to a SuperPID so that I can control on/off and motor speed 
via software.  I need to look at the documentation and see what I have 
available in terms of E-Stop control.  It may be that I have to treat it like 
the stepper driver power supplies.  I am just not there yet.  I still consider 
myself a newbie so am trying to take it in digestible BYTES.

As far as the external charge pump.  I am thinking that LinuxCNC will only 
generate the carrier frequency (charge pump signal) when it has control.  This 
way if the computer hangs or crashed I would at least have an additional level 
of safety.  Or am I just over thinking it?

Thanks again for your help.

Joe

- On Nov 7, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Bruce Layne linux...@thinkingdevices.com 
wrote:

 Hi Joe,
 
 The industry preferred method of implementing an E-stop would be the
 opposite of what you propose.  Rather than using the mechanical E-Stop
 switch as an input and logically ANDing the external E-stop switch and
 the internal E-stop machine state, you should use the internal E-stop
 machine state as an output and use electronic hardware (relay logic) to
 AND the E-stop switch and the E-stop machine state to enable the spindle
 motion and the X/Y/Z motion.  To be clear, you're actually ANDing the
 non-E-stop conditions, or NANDing two E-stop signals.  However you want
 to say it, motion should only be possible when the PC based controller
 says it's OK to run, and when the E-stop switch says it's OK to run.
 
 The issue is the reliability of computer hardware and software. These
 have greatly improved, but are still not up to the reliability standards
 of relays.
 
 I like solid state relays, although E-Stop relays are usually clackity
 relays with mechanical contacts.
 
 Consider using multiple E-stop switches if someone could be pinned by
 part of the machine.  Try think of all of the things that could go wrong
 and make sure someone could quickly reach an E-stop.
 
 When wiring your E-stop circuit, make sure the E-stop switch contacts
 are closed when you want the machine to run, and open when the E-stop
 switch is activated.  That way, if there is any loose connection in your
 E-stop circuit, the wiring fault causes the machine to fail in the
 E-stopped condition.
 
 The simplest E-stop wiring would cut power to the spindle motor and all
 of your stepper motor power supplies, even though the spindle could
 probably be actively stopped faster if left under power and commanded to
 stop rather than coasting to a stop.
 
 Bruce

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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

Bruce,

One more question.  If I wired it like my last email, then LinuxCNC would not 
have any clue that I hit the external E-Stop.  Would it be benifitial to bring 
the signal back in anyway, just to let the software know we killed it 
externally?  Otherwise, I imagine that the software will continue to send 
motion information and continue to plot like nothing ever happened.

Thanks,

Joe

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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

Jack,

Thank you.  I see your point.  Sometimes I get tunnel vision.  Would you 
recommend the external charge pump in the mix like I suggested?  I am thinking 
that this would just be an extra level of safety.  Am I correct?

Joe

- On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 Joe,
 
 Your last request is what happens where you hit 'pause', e-stop is for
 emergencies.  It should be used to keep from loosing a hand, or to
 keep the equipment from tearing itself apart.  Pause is to stop in a
 restartable manner.  The machine may have to finish a cut before it
 can pause, but using e-stop means you are willing to lose the piece or
 repair it if something is wrong.
 
 I hope that helps.
 
 ... Jack
 
 
 On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Joe Hildreth
 j...@threerivershospital.com wrote:
 Bruce,

 One more question.  If I wired it like my last email, then LinuxCNC would not
 have any clue that I hit the external E-Stop.  Would it be benifitial to 
 bring
 the signal back in anyway, just to let the software know we killed it
 externally?  Otherwise, I imagine that the software will continue to send
 motion information and continue to plot like nothing ever happened.

 Thanks,

 Joe

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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

Kirk,

Great information.  I am still reading it.  I wonder though, if a brake could 
be used with my router along side the PID.  You gave me some great info to chew 
on.  Thanks again.

Joe


- On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:05 PM, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com 
wrote:

 While following this thread, I found these links:
 
 
 http://madpenguin.ca/blog/2012/02/16/an-emergency-stop-circuit-with-emc2/
 
 the above has a brocken link to here:
 http://www.hs-compliance.com/uploaded/documents/THE%20EMERGENCY%20STOP%20-%202012%20ver%202.0.pdf
 
 For spindles, Warner makes a magnetic release brake which brakes when
 power is cut:
 http://www.altraliterature.com/pdfs/FB%20Series-Permanent%20Magnet%20Brakes.pdf
 
 These fail to a safe condition. eBay can be a good source.
 
 A little less fail-safe is braking an AC motor with a DC current:
 http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/news/sep01/sep01.html
 
 http://www.electrical4u.com/induction-motor-braking/
 
 There should be a version for router motors.
 
 --
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 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/
 
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Re: [Emc-users] A beginners question about E-Stop and Charge Pumps

[Joe Hildreth]

 can find a
 lot of circuit diagrams that are wired as I'm describing.  There will be
 minor differences depending on the specifics of the machine hardware,
 but the basic concept is the same.  Use those as examples and draw
 something similar for your machine.
 
 Good luck!
 
 
 Bruce
 
 
 
 
 On 11/07/2014 04:30 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
 Bruce,

 Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.

 So I can take this approach then:

 1) Use the internal E-Stop as an output on the BOB (Use this as in input to 
 my
 AND gate)
 2) Use the external E-stop which is normally closed as the second input to my
 AND gate)
 3) Use the output of the Charge pump signal from the BOB as the third input 
 to
 the AND gate.

 4) The output of the AND gate to drive the TTL inputs of my AC Relays to
 enable/disable power to the motors.

 This way, I still have both E-Stops (Or additional ones by cascading E-stops)
 and the charge pump signal to rely on?

 I could make a PC board for an AND gate with Vcc and ground in with a 
 decoupling
 cap and just bring the inputs and out puts to screw terminals.  This way, it
 would be nice and modular, cheap and fit in any corner of my electronics 
 drawer
 that slides in the computer rack.

 My spindle is a Hitachi router, so not sure if it is even possible to brake. 
  It
 will get wired to a SuperPID so that I can control on/off and motor speed via
 software.  I need to look at the documentation and see what I have available 
 in
 terms of E-Stop control.  It may be that I have to treat it like the stepper
 driver power supplies.  I am just not there yet.  I still consider myself a
 newbie so am trying to take it in digestible BYTES.

 As far as the external charge pump.  I am thinking that LinuxCNC will only
 generate the carrier frequency (charge pump signal) when it has control.  
 This
 way if the computer hangs or crashed I would at least have an additional 
 level
 of safety.  Or am I just over thinking it?

 One more question.  If I wired it like my last email, then LinuxCNC would not
 have any clue that I hit the external E-Stop.  Would it be benifitial to 
 bring
 the signal back in anyway, just to let the software know we killed it
 externally?  Otherwise, I imagine that the software will continue to send
 motion information and continue to plot like nothing ever happened.


 Thanks again for your help.

 Joe

 - On Nov 7, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Bruce Layne linux...@thinkingdevices.com
 wrote:

 Hi Joe,

 The industry preferred method of implementing an E-stop would be the
 opposite of what you propose.  Rather than using the mechanical E-Stop
 switch as an input and logically ANDing the external E-stop switch and
 the internal E-stop machine state, you should use the internal E-stop
 machine state as an output and use electronic hardware (relay logic) to
 AND the E-stop switch and the E-stop machine state to enable the spindle
 motion and the X/Y/Z motion.  To be clear, you're actually ANDing the
 non-E-stop conditions, or NANDing two E-stop signals.  However you want
 to say it, motion should only be possible when the PC based controller
 says it's OK to run, and when the E-stop switch says it's OK to run.

 The issue is the reliability of computer hardware and software. These
 have greatly improved, but are still not up to the reliability standards
 of relays.

 I like solid state relays, although E-Stop relays are usually clackity
 relays with mechanical contacts.

 Consider using multiple E-stop switches if someone could be pinned by
 part of the machine.  Try think of all of the things that could go wrong
 and make sure someone could quickly reach an E-stop.

 When wiring your E-stop circuit, make sure the E-stop switch contacts
 are closed when you want the machine to run, and open when the E-stop
 switch is activated.  That way, if there is any loose connection in your
 E-stop circuit, the wiring fault causes the machine to fail in the
 E-stopped condition.

 The simplest E-stop wiring would cut power to the spindle motor and all
 of your stepper motor power supplies, even though the spindle could
 probably be actively stopped faster if left under power and commanded to
 stop rather than coasting to a stop.

 Bruce
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Re: [Emc-users] Getting Started Guide error (confusion)

[Joe Hildreth]

Sebastian,

If you want to show me how to make the changes, I'd be happy to help out.

Joe

- On Sep 25, 2014, at 9:32 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

 On 9/24/14 9:56 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
 Sebastian,

 That fixes it up quite nice.  Hope I am not being a pain.  Just thought that
 proof reading would be a way i could contribute to the project.
 
 The proof reading is very helpful, and i appreciate your bug reports.
 
 I'd be happy to keep getting bug reports from you, and if you want to
 i'd be happy to show you how to make the changes yourself and send them
 to us - this way you'd get the attribution for the improvements more
 clearly.  Either way you want to do it is fine by me.
 
 
 --
 Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Getting Started Guide error (confusion)

[Joe Hildreth]

 The rough outline for how to contribute is in this document:
 
 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/code/Contributing-to-LinuxCNC.html
 
 Read that and send any questions you have to the emc-developers list.
 Also consider joining us on IRC for chatting in real time (details are
 in the document above).
 
 Welcome aboard!


Thanks.  I will read up and do what I can.  :-)  

Joe

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Re: [Emc-users] Getting Started Guide error (confusion)

[Joe Hildreth]

Sebastian,

That fixes it up quite nice.  Hope I am not being a pain.  Just thought that 
proof reading would be a way i could contribute to the project.

Joe

- On Sep 24, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

 On 9/22/14 1:19 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
 The image on section 5.2 (Figure 5.2: Basic information Page) shows 20,000 ns
 for both Direction Hold and Direction Setup. The definitions below for
 Direction Hold and Direction setup suggest 200,000 ns as a default value if 
 you
 don't know the timing information. Should this read 20,000 like the image, or
 should the image be fixed to reflect 200,000.
 
 Can you see if this is fixed and less confusing in 2.6.3-24 (currently
 on the linuxcnc.org/docs website)?
 
 
 --
 Sebastian Kuzminsky

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[Emc-users] Getting Started Guide error (confusion)

[Joe Hildreth]

The image on section 5.2 (Figure 5.2: Basic information Page) shows 20,000 ns 
for both Direction Hold and Direction Setup. The definitions below for 
Direction Hold and Direction setup suggest 200,000 ns as a default value if you 
don't know the timing information. Should this read 20,000 like the image, or 
should the image be fixed to reflect 200,000. 

Thanks, 

Joe 

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.6.3 Getting Started Manual correction

[Joe Hildreth]

Thanks Sebastian.

Joe

- On Sep 19, 2014, at 8:04 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

 On September 19, 2014 9:07:32 AM MDT, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com
 wrote:
On 9/17/14 1:58 PM, Joe Hildreth wrote:
 Hello,

 I was reading through the Getting Started V2.6.3-19-g06655d0,
2014-09-16 manual.

 Section 4.6 Mechanical Information.

 In the first example calculation, the text list 8 microsteps in the
formula, but should read 10 microsteps

 I hope it is OK to pass along corrections.

Thanks for the bug report!  This mailing list is a fine place to report

bugs.

I will fix it.
 
 It's fixed in 2.6.3-20.  Thanks for the bug report!
 
 
 --
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[Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.6.3 Getting Started Manual correction

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello, 

I was reading through the Getting Started V2.6.3-19-g06655d0, 2014-09-16 
manual. 

Section 4.6 Mechanical Information. 

In the first example calculation, the text list 8 microsteps in the formula, 
but should read 10 microsteps 

I hope it is OK to pass along corrections. 

Regards, 

Joe 


Joe Hildreth 
IT Manager 
Three Rivers Hospital 
451 Hwy 13 South 
Waverly, TN 37185 
(931) 296-0217 (office) 
(931) 622-3130 (cell) 
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[Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.6.3 Getting Started Manual correction

[Joe Hildreth]

Hello, 

I was reading through the Getting Started V2.6.3-19-g06655d0, 2014-09-16 
manual. 

Section 4.6 Mechanical Information. 

In the first example calculation, the text list 8 microsteps in the formula, 
but should read 10 microsteps 

I hope it is OK to pass along corrections. 

Regards, 

Joe 


Joe Hildreth 
IT Manager 
Three Rivers Hospital 
451 Hwy 13 South 
Waverly, TN 37185 
(931) 296-0217 (office) 
(931) 622-3130 (cell) 
--
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Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce
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