from:"robert"

RC that’s the point I was trying to make, but now it would seem a complete lack 
of eloquence and a whole lot of a bull in a china shop.

And Les with regards to the Yaniv character, how would you refer to an 
individual that makes appointments with businesses that deal with “feminine 
hair issues” then proceeds to drag them through the courts because they refused 
to wax his male genitalia?
The same person was also brought up on illegal weapons charges, and complaints 
have been made regarding grooming of underage girls. Not to mention an assault 
charge, where the assault was caught on camera. All but the grooming have been 
dealt with by the caught. Also Yaniv tried to organise a “topless” swimming 
event where teen girls were encouraged not to bring parents or guardians. These 
all for public record. Adding to that there was crowd funding campaign for the 
entry fee for a beauty contest.
Yes I think those actions have proved Yaniv to be a social pest.
As for the instigator of the CofC maybe a better wording would have been his 
actions have been those of a bully and have not been positive.

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 30 Jun 2021, at 00:42, R C  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 6/29/21 8:25 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>>> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 15:18, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> +1 CoC guarantees nontechnical tentacles grab hold on technical projects. 
>>> Nobody needs those "management" types.
>> I don't see any real risk of that happening to LinuxCNC. Apart from
>> anything else I doubt that anyone non-technical has any interest in
>> the project. (This is not the case for a desktop OS, or a graphics
>> package, for example)
>> 
> Might not be about the technical nature/interest,  it might just be that woke 
> "everyone has to do what we say" policy. It's "cancel culture",  if you don't 
> behave like we demand, you're going to be banned. (or not hosted  there 
> anymore) Doesn't matter if it is highly technical or not.
> 
> (look at what is happening at the "woke math" in the K-12 school system, 
> which is spreading to sciences too)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

Les, 
Who was the 2nd person I attacked ?
The Yaniv person and their antics have been widely and truthfully in the media. 
The “shave my b” thing was dealt by the Canadian courts. 
The reason for the “trans thing” is the driving force behind the CofC is trans 
and has spoken of it themselves. If you take time to read past the bits you may 
not like you will note that I have nothing against those that are genuinely 
dealing with these issues.
But children transitioning before they 18 and are fully able the grasp the 
gravity of the situation is not right.
If you look at the wording of the CofC it separates people into groups. That’s 
the issue, it’s about identity or which group you are part of. Rather than 
listing groups what is wrong with just mentioning people ?
Is that not what we all are people before anything else ? All members of the 
human clan ?
I just see more than a so called code of conduct.

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 29 Jun 2021, at 23:21, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 08:57 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 8:46 AM Valerio Bellizzomi <
>> vale...@selnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> In my organization, which also involes machining, it is a question
>>> of
>>> transparency of project management, statement of compliance with
>>> management standards, and commitment to a positive work place. It
>>> is
>>> also a means to resolve controvercies in-house without resorting to
>>> external costly experts.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>> 
>> Apples and oranges.
> 
> they're both fruits, you can mix them in a very good tasting smoothie
> :-)
> 
> 
>>  The only controversies I've ever seen on this list in
>> the last 20 or 30 years have been on a way to do things better, or
>> the
>> direction some folks would like to see this software go.  The beauty
>> of
>> being behind a keyboard is that it tends to keep the in-person
>> conflicts to
>> a very small minimum.
>> 
>> As I said in another post, just apply the Golden Rule.  Short, to the
>> point
>> and says everything that code should say in one sentence without the
>> baggage.
>> 
>> Mark
> 
> 
> but to be clear, I'm not advocating that we must adopt this CoC, only
> suggesting one example that seems adopted worldwide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct


Do you care to point out this..oh hang on I did call someone not
involved in the project a blight and a bully.

The current Code of Conduct is being pushed by those with agendas
outside of OSS Projects. I have heard these agendas referred to as
"Social Engineering".

It is agendas like these that led to a Political Party in Australia
wanting to prosecute doctors for what is best practice regarding Gender
Dysphoria. Up until that time I had been a supporter or this particular
party, but when I read of their policy to do that to Doctors when doing
their job and providing best care I was disgusted.

"Misgendering" someone, which the list of genders seems to get bigger
every day, is a crime in some places.

Then you get people like this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Yaniv who hides behind being trans
to be a social pest. And in effect making life hard for those that are
truly suffering.

On 29/6/21 10:10 pm, Les Newell wrote:

I find it mildly ironic that the introduction of a code of conduct
triggered one of the few posts I've seen on this list that breaks the
code of conduct...


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct


hahaha well said

But aren't all the cool electronics kids well into grbl & arduino ?

On 29/6/21 7:28 pm, Bari wrote:

On 6/29/21 3:52 AM, Robert Murphy wrote:


what are biggest hurdles for running a 3D printer with Linuxcnc.



People telling you that you should be using a *duino and GRBL and
doing less with less.



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

I have a feeling that there is a boiler plate/template for the Code of Conduct. 
Rumours abound relating to projects being forced to have one.
The great thing about forums and mailing list is you can skip those topics you 
want.
3D printing seems to be what the young people jive with. 
Not being with the ins and outs, all tho I have one and use one, what are 
biggest hurdles for running a 3D printer with Linuxcnc.
It’d be great to slap on a heated bed and a print head on the mill and get a 
slightly longer working envelope. Obviously with the right config.

Composed with my Crayons 

On 29 Jun 2021, at 18:30, John Dammeyer  wrote:

>> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
>>> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 04:14, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a bit 
>>> extreme:
>>> 
>>> "Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the 
>>> question asked"
>> 
>> It does seem a little odd. I suspect it is aimed at some manner of
>> behaviour that I have not (knowingly) seen on our forums.
>> It is a bit of a concern to think that I could be accused of breaking
>> the CoC for being too helpful.
>> 
>> I get the feeling that this CoC was written for a somewhat different
>> demographic than LinuxCNC users tend to be. (By which I am mainly
>> referring to age) .
>> 
>> --
>> atp
> 
> I would hope we're also attracting younger people who are interested in 
> controlling machines;  be they robots, mills, lathes or simple pick and place 
> machinery.  
> 
> I'm not even sure that a code of conduct is even needed on these forums.  
> I've been managing the E-Leadscrew forum for more than 10 years.  I've found 
> that just as the book Humankind
> https://www.littlebrown.com/titles/rutger-bregman/humankind/9780316418553/
> states that people are fundamentally and basically kind, so we've really 
> never had issues on that forum.  Dynamic discussions sometimes but name 
> calling and abuse isn't allowed.   We haven't needed a CoC.
> 
> Nor even off topic subjects as there are other forums for that.  For this 
> forum I'd rather learn how I can attach a CANUSB to LCNC and send/receive 
> CANopen messages with the SocketCAN interface.  Not about CoC.
> 
> So my goal, other than trying to figure out how to mount sensors so I can get 
> spindle feedback is Controller Area Network oriented.  To get there I'll 
> probably have to get my Hohman Designs ModIO working since there was an 
> attempt with LCNC for it.  But I think it just sort of dribbled away.  But by 
> working with ModBus I'll learn more and eventually be able to create CANopen 
> stuff.  I have a lot of CAN experience.  Very little LCNC experience.
> 
> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

Look John, 

Part of backlash towards the Code of Conduct in the beginning, I think it was 
2018 that it really became public, was whether code was based on merit or who 
wrote it. Now that goes against the grain of OSS.
I accept that my views can be a “bit out there”, but I wish no harm to anyone 
for any reason, with of course the exception of causing harm to those close to 
me, but when certain squeaky wheels start pushing their views and the law 
makers make laws because of their yells and screams I’ll  speak out.
I agree the “too much help” bit is strange and is open to interpretation.
On the web forums many times I and others have had to give instruction on basic 
Linux usage. Could this be seen beyond the scope of Linuxcnc support ?
What about basic machining questions ?
At the end of the day is it the recipient of such advice decides if it is too 
much ? Or is there something tangible that can be used as a yardstick ?
Personally I rarely think much of where a person comes from when answering a 
query on the forum.I do try to guess their level of Linux experience when 
trying to help with hardware issues. 
When this was first announced on the forum I asked for my account to be deleted 
due to my opinions on the matter. Some more experienced and level headed 
members suggested “don’t be a rude dill” or something along those lines and 
you’ll be fine. 
Why have to mention certain “protected groups” , as has been used in common 
parlance and used in laws ?
Why not just say don’t by a rude dill to anyone for any reason ?
Then everyone knows to be decent to everyone else.
As much as I may seem like a knuckle dragging bogan, sorry for the Aussie 
slang, I’m not. If someone needs help all I see them as is someone who needs 
help.
Tho I will admit mistaking someone for being a scammer and being a smart alec.
I was admonished and I’m a little bit dignified.
Just to restate those that are suffering with issues have my sympathy, but 
those that use it as a cudgel and shield to bully others is not on. 
Everyone’s publicly made ideas, opinions and statements are open to criticism.
Part of the Code of Conduct was to get more “minorities” into OSS projects. 
Whereas what is required is the best people suited to each project.

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 29 Jun 2021, at 16:57, R C  wrote:
> 
> I agree with you John,  and what some others said on here, about this coc 
> thing ...
> 
> 
> 
> I have been lurking on here for a good long while,  and asked some questions 
> lately...   but I think I can say that I have never really seen anything 
> mean/inappropriate posted here (although I don't meticulously read 
> everything) ..
> 
> so, probably like others, I thought .. "where did that came from?"  Well, I 
> guess some are just more pro-active/creative than I am, you know, "just in 
> case" or something like that.
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/29/21 12:43 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> From: Robert Murphy [mailto:robert.mur...@gmx.com]
>> 
>> 
>>> I have a feeling this post maybe violating the Code of Conduct.
>> Your post violates the spirit of what LinuxCNC and open source forims is all 
>> about and IMHO there is no place for that on this forum.
>> 
>> I want to learn from experienced people who are gracious enough to lend 
>> their time and knowledge to not only improve LCNC but also teach and help 
>> others use and perhaps in the future develop 'features'.
>> 
>> My issue with that one line in that CoC, which is a negative for that a new 
>> user, or an old one who is forgetful which comes with age.  The problem is:
>> 
>> "When you don't know what you don't know it's very difficult to look up 
>> information and separate the good from the bad".
>> 
>> This is where the 'experts' come in.  My Shuttle Express was the perfect 
>> example of how it would have worked perfectly on my 2.7.14 PC based system 
>> but was badly broken on the 2.8.1 Pi4.  It took a lot of coaching and 
>> reading and studying and trying things until I finally had the correct 
>> motion.  But without the support I would have bailed.  I learned a lot in 
>> the process.
>> 
>> But a short 4 word answer condensed down to RTFM only helps those who 
>> already know because they don't have to wade through wordy replies or 
>> questions.
>> 
>> I'll leave that subject with this old saw.  "Those that can do, those that 
>> can't teach" which is the biggest pile of rubbish coined but those who 'can' 
>> but haven't got a clue how to teach and rather than look stupid made up the 
>> phrase.  IMHO that one line is penned in by those who have forgotten that.
>> 
>> John Dammeyer
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 29/6/21 3:13 pm

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct


Read the rest of the wiki page, it's there in black & white.

As much as a male tries to transition to a female or the other way
around, biology can not be denied.

Only a biological female can give birth.

Yeah I feel sorry for those for those that suffer from the anguish of
gender dis-morphia, it must be a horrible thing to go through. If they
transition and live the way they feel most comfortable so be it. As long
as they honest about it and don't force you into their fantasy. I feel
those that are genuinely afflicted are likely to be more honest and less
forceful in their actions.

In saying that there seems to be a few, and these are the loudest, that
will use their transgenderism to bully others, bully others in such a
way that if anything is said to oppose their actions their you are
treated as some kind of this or that phobic. They are also the one that
advocate puberty blockers so per-pubescent children can destroy their lives.

In our last federal election is Australia one of the major parties
wanted it to make it an offense for a Doctor to recommend counseling for
a patient presenting with gender dis-morphia. The law would have
compelled them to send them off to transition.

As much as the Code of Conduct targeted is at OSS projects, it goes much
much deeper than that. Take a look at some of the laws that have been
passed in western countries because of these squeaky wheels. This is the
madness that has led to terms such as "birthing person", "chest feeding"
and mediocre male "sportsmen", and I use that tern lightly, being
allowed to compete against biological women and dominating competitions.

I have a feeling this post maybe violating the Code of Conduct.

On 29/6/21 3:13 pm, R C wrote:


On 6/28/21 10:53 PM, Robert Murphy wrote:

Coraline Ada Ehmke is a blight, he's just a trouble maker that likes to
throw his weight around.


I had to google that...   now I am confused  


"based in Chicago <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago>, Illinois
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois>. She began her career as a
web developer" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_developer>





On 29/6/21 1:17 pm, R C wrote:


On 6/28/21 9:11 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a bit
extreme:

"Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the
question asked"


I agree with you,  I am a rookie, as well in machining as in using
linuxcnc,  and I welcome all additional (excessive ?) info. I did get
quite a bit extra info "of the thread" from several here, which only
helps me understand things better


Ron




John Dammeyer


-Original Message-
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jep...@unpythonic.net]
Sent: June-28-21 6:26 PM
To: Jeff Epler
Subject: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

The LinuxCNC community including this mailing list now has a written
code of conduct. Unless it's your idea of fun to harass other people,
this is a big non-event for you.

You can read the code of conduct here:
https://www.linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT/

Jeff


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

2021-06-28 Thread Robert Murphy


Coraline Ada Ehmke is a blight, he's just a trouble maker that likes to
throw his weight around.


On 29/6/21 1:17 pm, R C wrote:


On 6/28/21 9:11 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a bit
extreme:

"Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the
question asked"


I agree with you,  I am a rookie, as well in machining as in using
linuxcnc,  and I welcome all additional (excessive ?) info. I did get 
quite a bit extra info "of the thread" from several here, which only
helps me understand things better


Ron




John Dammeyer


-Original Message-
From: Jeff Epler [mailto:jep...@unpythonic.net]
Sent: June-28-21 6:26 PM
To: Jeff Epler
Subject: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

The LinuxCNC community including this mailing list now has a written
code of conduct. Unless it's your idea of fun to harass other people,
this is a big non-event for you.

You can read the code of conduct here:
https://www.linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT/

Jeff


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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

2021-06-28 Thread Robert Murphy


Sorry Andy, should have really sent out a heartfelt thanks fro all the
hard work by the team.

On 28/6/21 5:25 pm, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 at 07:47, jrmitchellj  wrote:


Andy, if you are going to spin up a new ISO,  It would be really nice to
include/install pciutils in the package.

That's one of the reasons that I am planning a new ISO. The ISO source
is already updated.
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/buster-live-build/blob/master/config/package-lists/desktop.list




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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

2021-06-28 Thread Robert Murphy


Any chance of midnight commander ?

It's a great tool for file management\editing\viewing files when X fails
for whatever reason.

Cheers

Rob

On 28/6/21 5:25 pm, andy pugh wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 at 07:47, jrmitchellj  wrote:


Andy, if you are going to spin up a new ISO,  It would be really nice to
include/install pciutils in the package.

That's one of the reasons that I am planning a new ISO. The ISO source
is already updated.
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/buster-live-build/blob/master/config/package-lists/desktop.list




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Re: [Emc-users] changinging parallel port numbers

2021-06-26 Thread Robert Murphy


Hi,

link to hal_parport docs, for future reference.

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/hal_parport.1.html

Look for a line starting with this in your hal file:

loadrt hal_parport cfg=

On 27/6/21 5:46 am, R C wrote:

Hello,


this probably (somewhat) trivial;   I replaced a pci parallel card
(one gave up) and of course the order of the ports changed.


Where (and what) do I change in the config file(s)  to for example 
move from port 2 to port 0?


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] BeagleBoneBlack

2021-06-14 Thread Robert Murphy

Ok Andy that sounds great. I’ll pull out the little beast and give it a whirl.
One question tho, will this build on Wheezy or do I need something “more” 
modern.
It would be great to put the BBB and the breakout boards back into service, 
even for an overkill project.
Cheers 
Rob

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 14 Jun 2021, at 22:57, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 at 08:32, Robert Murphy  wrote:
>> 
>> What I was thinking of is a simple GUI control the position of the
>> fence, and hooking a ESP32 (via ethernet) to do the motion
>> control..
> 
> This sounds like it might be simple enough to do with a BBB and PRU
> stepgens or even with software stepgens on A BB or a Pi.
> 
> I pulled PRU support into LinuxCNC some time ago, but nobody stepped
> forward to test it. (And without a BBB buildbot builder no packages
> are made)
> git checkout andypugh/bb_pru to try it out.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] BeagleBoneBlack

2021-06-12 Thread Robert Murphy




Hi John,

With regards to the BBB I was running MK (wheezy) on using the PRU,
which for my needs seemed to be ok, I didn't notice any graphics issues.

The thing that turns me off MK is how it's split and so forth.

The reason my interest has piqued is because I have a project on the go
that the BBB would be perfect for. I have a mini table saw that I'm
setting up to cut PCB sleepers for a model railway I'm building. Each
sleeper requires a few cuts, for very precise ones just enough to cut
through the copper.

What I was thinking of is a simple GUI control the position of the
fence, and hooking a ESP32 (via ethernet) to do the motion
control.There is a discussion on the forum regarding this. The code
is very experimental the moment but I think it could just work.

Currently the Mill is controlled by a MESA 7i92 connected to 7i76, 7i73
and a few other cards. This is all hooked up to a Odroid H2 plus.

If the BBB isn't a viable solution I have a x86 based Atom Pi and a
RPi400, so a couple of options.

The ELS sounds interesting having just built a "parts bin special", a
Myford ML7 bed (the bed is almost unworn) and a Super7 head stock (no
back gear, but the vfd should help) and various other S7 & ML7 parts
(complete ones are at stupid prices Down Under and many are rusted and
incomplete). So I guess adding a few steppers and ballscrews shouldn't
be too much of an issue.


Cheers

Rob



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Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 issues with MESA 7i92H

2021-06-11 Thread Robert Murphy


Sorry a bit OT


John you have Linuxcnc working on a BBB using a Mesa ethernet card ?

If so would you mind if I started a new topic to pick your brain.

To the OP please accept my apologies for going so far off topic.


Cheers

Rob

On 12/6/21 1:33 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:

From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 17:05:53 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 



I don't think this is his problem, since his rpi Linuxcnc talks to the 7i92 
just fine. Only mesaflash is having trouble.

Have you tried explicitly specifying --addr 192 168.1.121?

-- Ralph


There is no electrical difference.  Just one DB connector and one header for
the non H variety.  It turns out setting the address as --addr 192.168.1.121
or if the W5 and W6 are changed to reflect EEROM IP address of default
10.10.10.10 then all commands must have --addr 10.10.10.10.

Reading the manual again it appears that --addr is only needed if the default
192.168.1.121 is not in use on the 7i92.  That's incorrect with a Pi4.  It's
correct with a PC and a Beaglebone.

Looking at the code, thats pretty strange. The address default is just
"192.168.1.121" Have you tried without the "sudo"? That's not needed
for Ethernet connected cards

Makes no difference if the sudo is there or not.
First just to show that from a physical perspective the 7i92 is there on 
192.168.1.121

pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ ping 192.168.1.121
PING 192.168.1.121 (192.168.1.121) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.1.121: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.120 ms

But the mesaflash software doesn't know it's supposed to use the default ip.
pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ ./mesaflash  --device 7i92 --readhmid
lbp16_access.send_packet: Resource temporarily unavailable
Aborted
pi@linuxcnc:~/mesaflash $ ./mesaflash  --device 7i92 --addr 192.168.1.121 
--readhmid
Configuration Name: HOSTMOT2

General configuration information:

   BoardName : MESA7I92
   FPGA Size: 9 KGates
   FPGA Pins: 144


BTW.  The upside is that now we have something reproducible.   It may well be 
something outside of mesaflash but the issue doesn't show up with older 
versions of the OS and what really amazed me is it worked on the Beagle.  Has 
me wondering if booted a machinekit onto the beagle would it work?  Probably 
not.  The hm2_eth is probably not compatible with machinekit but just curious.



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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen for LinuxCNC

2021-06-02 Thread Robert Murphy


Sorry been busy today and just saw this.

I bought a 2nd hand touch screen (3M Microtouch). A part from being
cheap, $25 AUD I figured it would be a fairly rugged piece of kit (very
little use). So it's only 17" but with the lack of space in my work area
it fits right in. Touch a little bit of fiddling to calibrate but I
found a great python3 base utility that worked wonders.

On 2/6/21 5:14 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Gregg,

My observation is that in the last decade or so human factors engineering has 
taken a back seat to getting a product out the door.  Possibly with the idea 
that it will be out of date in a couple of years so why bother.

Way back when I was in University it was the Arts Department at the University 
of Alberta that introduced a Industrial Design stream for students to take 
which was exactly about that.  How big should buttons be?  What sort of 
positions should they be in and where.  I was friends with a guy that was doing 
that while I was taking what is now called Computer Engineering but then was 
Computing Science with a few EE courses.  Never forgot the comments he made 
about design.

Lately it appears to take a back seat.

In essence perhaps that's what my question about touch screens is all about.

John



-Original Message-
From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
Sent: June-01-21 11:55 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Cc: Gregg Eshelman
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen for LinuxCNC

I always liked the rotary click wheel on many CRT monitors. Nice big wheel with 
an offset dimple. Put fingertip in dimple and push to
get the menu, spin to highlight the configuration option then push. Spin again 
to select (for example) vertical position then push and
spin to move the raster up or down. No slower (for me it was faster) than a mouse 
interface with "spin" controls that scroll a list or
change a number. Only took me a few seconds to have a CRT's image all tweaked. 
That's why people lamented the loss of the
clickwheel on iPods. It was FAST, easy to use, and didn't need eyes on it to be 
able to use it.

My current LCD has five buttons on the back. Only the bottom one (on/off) has a 
tiny bump. The other four are ??? and after the
menu is brought up, their positions don't align with the order of the menu 
selections so one is literally poking around blindly trying to
find what does what. Even a row of clearly labeled buttons on the front of a 
monitor was slower than a click wheel. If TV and monitor
designers want a "blind poking" physical interface tucked around on the back 
side, they should bring back the click wheel. I have a
couple of Samsung TVs that have, of all things, a tiny joystick *and* some 
buttons on the back. Now that is a crazy thing.

 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 7:38:13 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:
  Personally I like the tactile feedback of a button that moves.� But moving 
from buttons over to a mouse to then select entries is
tedious so I can see either a number of buttons or a touch screen for that sort 
of thing.

For the same reason I really detest those interfaces based on Arduino's that, 
due to limited I/O use a rotary knob and button to select
from all sorts of menus.� Or worse test enter each digit one at a time using 
the rotary knob.
Shudder

Way back HP had the right idea with what they called soft keys.� A row of 
mechanical buttons along the edges of the screen to select
options displayed beside the button.� My Tek scope has those and the stupid 
rotary knobs.� Invariably since they have two of those I
tend to choose the wrong one first.

But to design such a user screen for LinuxCNC implies you also have to provide 
the buttons (and maybe a knob).� Easy to do with
CANopen or ModBus or if you have one of the high i/o count MESA boards but then 
you are also running a bundle of wires up rather
than a network cable.

Thanks for the feedback.
John Dammeyer
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Re: [Emc-users] Pi4 LinuxCNC

2021-05-04 Thread Robert Murphy


file /bin/bash ?

On 5/5/21 9:53 am, John Dammeyer wrote:

How can I find out if the Pi4 running LinuxCNC is an ARM64 or 32 bit version?
Is there a clue with uname -a?

John



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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

2021-01-20 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Hi John,

Good catch! Andy also pointed out that multi-start threading is of course
possible if you do a Z offset like you describe. I was thinking of "native"
support for multi-start in G33 / G33.1, like with a word specifying the
start location in degrees.

-Rob

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

2021-01-20 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Ahh, good point! It would be nice to be able to explicitly specify a
spindle angle too, but that's a good workaround.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:50 PM Andy Pugh  wrote:

>
>
> > On 20 Jan 2021, at 18:14, Robert Ellenberg  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Note that multi-start threading is not currently possible
>
>
> You can do it by offsetting the start point.
> (If there is room)
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed changes with threading.

2021-01-20 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Hi All,

As others have said, during position-synched moves, the axes follow the
spindle position, so you don't need fine control of spindle speed. However,
you should have both a stable spindle RPM and a high-ish resolution encoder
to get the best results. John, for your example, as each encoder pulse
arrives, the TP will be constantly accelerating / decelerating to try to
track that position signal. Luckily, it can't get too far off because of
the axis acceleration limits, but the amplitude of the jitter will
definitely be higher with a low resolution encoder.

Here's how spindle synchronization broadly works from within the TP (i.e.
what occurs in motion after START_FEED_SPEED_SYNCH)

   1. The TP waits (with axes stopped) for a spindle index mark.
   2. Once the spindle has just passed the mark, the machine axes
   accelerate until they reach (spindle speed * requested units/rev).
   3. Once the axes reach the expected velocity, then synchronization is
   declared, and the TP maintains position synchronization from that point
   onwards. At higher spindle RPM, synchronization takes longer, so the
   spindle rotates farther before the axes are synchronized. Multiple
   threading passes at different spindle RPM will not quite follow the same
   path.
   4. After synchronization, the TP computes a position error based on the
   measured spindle position. The axis velocity is nominally spindle speed *
   uu / rev, but that velocity is corrected up or down as needed to drive the
   position error toward zero.

Note that multi-start threading is not currently possible (because the TP
always synchs at 0 deg, i.e. at the index mark), but we could modify the TP
to start synchronization at some angle after the index mark.

Finally, the obvious fix for the inconsistency in the acceleration phase is
to just declare synchronization at the index mark right away. With the axes
starting from rest, there would be a huge initial velocity error for the TP
to correct. It will do so eventually, but there are large position over- /
under-shoots until it stabilizes. Luckily, we know what the axis
acceleration looks like (based on axis max acceleration and nominal spindle
speed), so you can anticipate this and start the axes moving before the
spindle reaches the index mark. That way, the axes are moving at the
nominal speed just as the spindle reaches zero. This removes most of the
position error at the start, and the TP corrects for any residual error
very quickly. This is roughly the approach we used in PathPilot, and I
think LinuxCNC 2.8 or 2.9 would benefit from it as well.

Best,
Rob

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 12:47 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
>
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 16:09, Kirk Wallace 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I left the trail here:
> > > >
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc#L4881-L5028
> >
> > There seems to have been a lot of time spent investigating theory that
> > could have been settled in 5 minutes with an experiment.
> >
> > --
> > atp
>
> Dropping an apple from a tree and observing that it falls and smashes on
> the ground doesn't splatter into the words that spell out laws of motion
> made up of bits of peel and apple.
>
> I'm assuming that the authors of this code were clever enough to take into
> account the motor acceleration relative to spindle speed on each pass.  But
> that doesn't explain how they do that.
>
> And if there are 60 teeth on the spindle encoder with a single sensor then
> 120 edges are the most you get.  That's 3 degrees per edge assuming the
> slots are symmetrical and I don't think there's a rule that they must be.
> Might be 1 and 5 degrees.  So assume then an index single rising edge is
> used every 6 degrees.
>
> A half inch shaft has a circumference of 0.3925" and each 6 degree index
> is 0.00654".  The implication is depending on spindle speed and motor
> acceleration you might be off by almost 0.006".  That's a lot isn't it?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit

2020-12-13 Thread Robert Murphy


Those T series Thinkpads are great, I was using a T61 until I got a T540
(which is awesome with an SSD), after using the Thinkpads I got a 2nd
hand ThinkStation S20. I even got my Mum a ThinkCentre.

On 14/12/20 6:39 am, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 13 Dec 11:22:08 -0800
  John Dammeyer scripsit:

[...]
So I'll throw up the question.  Is as you said, "the Beagle board is grossly 
underpowered", or has LinuxCNC/MachineKit suffered now the same Code Bloat that 
Microsoft Windows and Apple have, making the need for bigger processors with more memory 
mandatory?

I do my daily work on a T61 from 2005. It boots devuan in < 15 seconds from power on to 
TDE. My mill is run by a T60 with Libreboot + TDE. I have a testsystem on a OnangePi Nano 
LTS. It works, just axis (opengl) is a bit laggy - the simpler GUIs work just fine. So for 
me LinuxCNC never has been the problem. The problem is GUIs and "modernisation". 
If you stay away from anything GNOME and systemd, you are fine - and probably will be for 
the years to come.

Nik


John




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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit

2020-12-13 Thread Robert Murphy


I designed and built them for what I wanted. Another thing that was on
my mind was some one switching from Mach 3 to Machine Kit. The goal was
to lay the I\O similar to what you would have with 2 Parallel ports.

For the time I used it work, and I still may put it back into use with
the little Elks mini cnc sitting on the shelf.


The reason for the switch from MK to Linuxcnc, the Linuxcnc project just
has a better feel, IMHO, and the forum appears to have more members that
use it in a commercial setting. I'm not saying that the former statement
is gospel.

On 13/12/20 6:35 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:

The problem with the boards are that they are a little too general purpose.  So 
much more is needed above and beyond isolated outputs or inputs.

For example, say you want RS485 for the spindle controller.  Or maybe CANopen 
CAN bus for pick and place tools to bring in raw material and remove finished 
goods.  Even just a tool changer.

The Beagle has CAN bus and Serial ports along with I2C and SPI.  These should 
be configured so it's possible add an LCD display with touch screen.  If they 
make one of the CAN pins a switch input then the CAN port is lost.  That's what 
happened with the 4D Systems LCD cape I bought (now discontinued).  Useless if 
I also want a CAN cape.

A cape meant for CNC should know that LIMIT and ESTOP switches should be NC 
type for safety.  So no disabling outputs with the ESTOP signal.

  A hardware PWM module on the Beagle should be an output.  And ideally, with a 
jumper, a PWM to 0-10V output or else STEP with the corresponding DIRECTION 
signal.

Inputs tied to the AB and Index input of one of the quadrature encoder modules.

Ultimately what's more cost effective and saleable?  A general purpose board 
that still needs another BoB or a dedicated interface that would work with 
_most_ mills or lathes.

IMHO the latter.

John







-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
Sent: December-12-20 10:37 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit

I just looked.   That is a really nice way to design this.   At first I
thought "Three boards? Why?"  but this gives you some flexibility to change
out one board and also you have some packaging options too.

One thing I want to point out is that anyone here could have this PCB made
for 40 cents each and have a stack of them in hand before the start of
2021.   However it might be worth a re-design using surface mount parts
because JLCPCB now offers to assemble SMT parts at no cost.  They would
solder everything but the connectors and it would cost maybe $1 per PCB
total.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Robert Murphy  wrote:


I used a 3 board solution on my BBB before switching from MK to Linuxcnc.

https://github.com/ozzyrob/pp_cape

https://github.com/ozzyrob/pp_bob_input

https://github.com/ozzyrob/pp_bob_output


The cape attaches as normal and the 2 other boards sit either side
connected by a short ribbon cable.

Still have a few sets of boards left over, and one set of 3 fully built
that I used but no longer have a use for.

There are pretty basic but I found them to work without any issues.

On 13/12/20 7:18 am, Alan Condit wrote:

Marcus,

Jon Elson (Pico-systems) sells the Cramps board designed by Charles
Steinkuehler that can run six Pololu stepper drives (like 35v 1 to 2

amps).

I designed a little PCB that can plug into three of the stepper driver
sockets to allow it to control 3 external drives. They are or were
available on OSHPark as CRAMPS-BOB3-a3.

Alan



From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk
To: EnhancedController 
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 19:38:12 +
Subject: [Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit
John (or anyone else),

Is there a 'cape' currently available to suit the Beaglebone Black
running MachineKit or LinuxCNC?
I know there used to be a cape specifically for that purpose, but it has
been out of production for some time.
I have a Beaglebone I would like to press into service running either
LinuxCNC or MachineKit.
Are images available for both?

Marcus



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--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit

2020-12-12 Thread Robert Murphy


I used a 3 board solution on my BBB before switching from MK to Linuxcnc.

https://github.com/ozzyrob/pp_cape

https://github.com/ozzyrob/pp_bob_input

https://github.com/ozzyrob/pp_bob_output


The cape attaches as normal and the 2 other boards sit either side
connected by a short ribbon cable.

Still have a few sets of boards left over, and one set of 3 fully built
that I used but no longer have a use for.

There are pretty basic but I found them to work without any issues.

On 13/12/20 7:18 am, Alan Condit wrote:

Marcus,

Jon Elson (Pico-systems) sells the Cramps board designed by Charles
Steinkuehler that can run six Pololu stepper drives (like 35v 1 to 2 amps).
I designed a little PCB that can plug into three of the stepper driver
sockets to allow it to control 3 external drives. They are or were
available on OSHPark as CRAMPS-BOB3-a3.

Alan



From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk
To: EnhancedController 
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 19:38:12 +
Subject: [Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit
John (or anyone else),

Is there a 'cape' currently available to suit the Beaglebone Black
running MachineKit or LinuxCNC?
I know there used to be a cape specifically for that purpose, but it has
been out of production for some time.
I have a Beaglebone I would like to press into service running either
LinuxCNC or MachineKit.
Are images available for both?

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] quick question on parallel port cables

2020-11-06 Thread Robert Murphy


A null modem cable wont be any good as they will have RX & TX crossed,
and is primarily a cable for serial use.

You will need a cable that has ALL 25 pins connected (one to one), some
dodgy parallel cables may have the GND lines all connected together.

Here's one from element14:

https://nz.element14.com/multicomp/spc20023/computer-cable-parallel-10ft-gray/dp/1189912?ost=1189912

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1657741.pdf

On 7/11/20 1:10 pm, andrew beck wrote:

hey everyone

I found that I am missing a parallel port cable for between one of my mesa
5i25 and 7i77 cards

I am in new zealand and don't really want to buy a cable from america as
shipping is heaps just for a cable.  if I buy one locally what am I looking
for?

here are some options

pbtech parallel port cable




I have heard that you can't use just any parallel port cable as some have
the wires crossed inside

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] Halscope Log Files

2020-10-22 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Andy,

Try this branch here:


https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/rellenberg/halscope

It adds native CSV-saving capability to halscope (if you specify a .csv
file in the save dialog). It's much easier to parse in something like
octave (and also much faster). It won't do much for the reading-back-in
part, unfortunately.

-Rob

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 12:44 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 at 16:50, Nicklas SB Karlsson  wrote:
> >
> > Did not read very carefully, if you need maybe I could spend a few other
> > try to get the halscope log file into Octave.
>
> I would be much more interested in getting a halcope log back in to
> halscope.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] G93 minimum value/behaviour

2020-09-14 Thread Robert Ellenberg

There is a quirk with G93 in one specific case that causes trouble. G93 for
reasons unknown enforces a minimum feedrate of 0.1 units / min:

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_inverse.cc#L65

...
  length = find_arc_length(x1, y1, z1, cx, cy, turn, x2, y2, z2);
  rate = std::max(0.1, (length * block->f_number));
  enqueue_SET_FEED_RATE(rate);
...

This causes trouble because of how LinuxCNC understands feed rates / motion
distances
.
As long as there is any XYZ motion longer than 1e-7 inches, the length of
the motion is computed solely in terms of XYZ distance, and the ABC axes
move at whatever feed is necessary to be in phase with the XYZ motion.

An extreme example:
N1 G20 G0 X0 Y0 Z0 A0
N2 G93 G1 Z-0.01 A[360*5] F1.0 (1 minute for 5 revolutions)

The "length" in move N2 is 0.01 in. Based on the code above, the natural
feed rate for this would be 0.01, but it's forced to be 0.1, or 10x higher
than you'd expect.

I think a smarter approach would be to check if the effective feed rate is
too small (like below what a machine can actually execute) and throw an
error, rather than silently "fixing" it like this.

-Rob

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:44 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 14 September 2020 10:24:49 Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:
>
> >  Andy
> > I agree this seems more trouble than needed, but if you can get
> > working G code for an example it should help in fixing the post.
> >
> > Could it be a problem with axis wrap (going past 359.999) in the
> > formatting? I understand you can program multiple turns on the rotary
> > axis but what dose the next move expect for an endpoint after rollover
> > on actual position? From A0 to A720 is two rotations but is the next
> > line for two rotations A 720 or A1440?
> >
> > Scott
>
> In my setups, others could be different, but angles are absolute using
> home as a zero reference.
>
> Homeing on a rotary however is to the home switch, you can run it 45000
> degrees as in this thread, but it will rehome to 0, or whatever offset
> from the switch is programmed, in under a turn.
>
> To answer the question, if you have run it to 720 previously, then a cmd
> to go 1440, will turn it two more turns and conversely a cmd to
> goto -1440 will turn it 6 turns in the opposite direction.
> >
> > On Monday, September 14, 2020, 4:30:45 AM CDT, andy pugh
> >  wrote:
> >
> >  On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 at 04:38, Scott Harwell via Emc-users
> >
> >  wrote:
> > >  I found this it might help.
> > > Scott
> > > Rapid Rotary
> >
> > Along the same lines, there is a filter file here that automatically
> > converts XY UV G-code to G93 based on which end is bigger.
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/35141-a-head-
> >scratcher-for-me?start=10#120524
> >
> > The only reason I mention this is that it runs automatically as the
> > G-code file is opened, rather than being a separate application.
> > (And, to be fair, this isn't an option for RapidRotary as it needs to
> > be able to query the working radius)
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

2020-07-21 Thread Robert Ellenberg

I totally agree that a silent failure mode (especially one that can break
taps) is bad news. Perhaps thankfully, we've gotten away with it for a long
time: based on the git history, the 10-rev overshoot limit and this silent
failure mode has been around at least since the 2.6 days, maybe earlier.

I have a few ways in mind to fix this:

   1. Throw an error and abort motion if it reaches some threshold of
   overshoot (say 90% of the maximum), or maybe if the position tracking error
   exceeds some threshold.
   2. Check if the rigid tap motion + max overshoot exceeds the axis limits
   (currently we check before adding the overshoot allowance, which in theory
   could lead to motion past the soft limits)
   3. (optional) Tell motion what the expected spindle acceleration is (via
   HAL pin), so that it can start reversing before it hits the bottom of the
   hole (reducing the overshoot). Leaving this pin at zero (default) would
   give you the current behavior.

 -Rob

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:17 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 21 July 2020 13:09:16 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 at 18:03, Robert Ellenberg 
> wrote:
> > >1. The rigid tapping cycle allows a hard-coded 10 revolutions
> > >
> > > <https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/tp/tc.c#L8
> > >56> of overtravel beyond the nominal bottom of the hole when
> > > reversing direction.
> >
> > That feels like there should be an error message.
> >
> > "Maximum rigid tapping limit exceeded. And furthermore I have just
> > broken your tap"
>
> "Maximum rigid tapping limit exceeded. And furthermore I have just
>  broken your $85 carbide tap"
>
> There, I fixed it for you. :(
>
> 10 turns is way too far. I cut air at least once to measure the
> turnaround (I have that stuff in my .hal file) and in what I have done,
> that has led me to set a personal limit of 2 turns. Taking a broken tap
> out of a valuable blind hole via EDM is a genuine PITA and I will do
> whatever it takes to avoid that. But, I would not uncouple the spindle
> from the tap either, killing the spindle drive ASAP instead, then one
> might be able to  back the tap out of the hole with the spindle,
> salvaging the part so maybe the hole could be finished by hand.
>
> 10 turns, breaking the tap is the wrong thing to do. Shutting down,
> leaving it coupled before the tap breaks is the best thing to do.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

2020-07-21 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Based on the videos and your descriptions of the behavior, you may be
running into a TP issue I've seen (in simulation) with very sluggish
spindles or very high spindle speeds. Here's what I think is going on:

   1. The rigid tapping cycle allows a hard-coded 10 revolutions

   of overtravel beyond the nominal bottom of the hole when reversing
   direction.
   2. The spindle starts reversing direction only after the Z axis has
   reached the bottom, so the spindle has to be able to stop in 10 revolutions
   to stay within the budgeted overtravel.
   3. If the TP hits the end of the overtravel, it prematurely declares the
   motion to be complete and stops following the spindle motion.

Do you still see this behavior if you run the spindle slower? Your spindle
seems to take a long time to reverse, so at high speeds you may be hitting
this limit.

Best,
Rob

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:18 AM Matthew Herd  wrote:

> Ahh, so I do use limit switches and a homing routine.  So it’s homing to
> the same position (plus or minus a few thousandths or so).
>
> > On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> >
> > On 07/21/2020 04:20 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> >> On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 at 10:18, andy pugh  wrote:
> >>
> >>> We are not looking for noise, we are looking for spurious encoder
> count resets.
> >> But, thinking further, even if there _is_ noise on the index line, the
> >> encoder counter should ignore it. It ignores all the _real_ indexes
> >> unless index-enable is set true in HAL.
> >>
> > Yes, the only thing I can think of is he's hitting his soft limits. Over
> time, starting and stopping LinuxCNC,
> > without homing, the machine limits will drift.  If you have rational
> limits in the .ini file, you will eventually reach the end of them and have
> really strange behavior.  it can be fixed by homing in a safe position,
> > but best to put in home switches and actually home the machine to a
> repeatable position every time.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

2020-03-17 Thread Robert Murphy

Go away you are dangerous and educated above and beyond your ability for 
rational thought.
I’m no longer going to respond to your BS.
Find another place to pretend you have any kind of common sense.
I’m done.

Composed with my Crayons 

>> On 18 Mar 2020, at 03:15, Rafael Skodlar  wrote:
>> 
>> On 2020-03-17 01:30, Robert Murphy wrote:
>> Raf,
>> Get a 7i76e and you are done.
>> Don't scratch your head and touch sensitive components.
> 
> That's just one possibility which depends on how much hair and size you have. 
> Just walking around certain kind of floors you generate static electricity 
> that can kill modern electronics very fast. I have yet to see technicians in 
> IT using anti-static wrist strap.I keep two in my toolbox.
> 
>> What you have said is technically and correct and in all the books,it's
>> even what the teach in tertiary educations when you're working towards
>> your certs.  it's not exactly what I've seen in the field. That's was
>> day in and day out repair EFTPOS terminals, mainboards of pokies and
>> other sundry products by a certain large supplier of EFTPOS equipment.
> 
> When you use a not so common (?) acronym it's nice to spell it out.
> 
>> Even with the latest exercise equipment with all the bells & whistles
>> the biggest issues are failure of output drivers due to lack of
>> mechanical maintenance by owners.
>> Not that I'm advocating working with electronic equipment in a vinyl one
>> piece jump suit with balloons attached.
>> I'm not too sure of the certification status of the RPi for industrial
>> use. Where as there is a variant of the BBB that is.
> 
> It depends on what temperature range components you use and how you build the 
> boards.
> 
> https://thepihut.com/products/italtronic-din-rail-raspberry-pi-model-b-plus-case
> 
> https://revolution.kunbus.com/revolution-pi-series/  pay attention to the 
> diagram on the sides. 12-24V DC. And QR code to find additional information 
> easily. It looks to be very good product IMO, all based on open source. [1]
> 
> [1] And I was told earlier to get lost after I commented on LinuxCNC 
> architecture issues.
> 
> DIN is a German standard I'm aware of since I mixed neutral power line with 
> hot 220V. I built a simple one transistor receiver and used a neutral wire as 
> an antenna. That idea (?) came from something I was reading in the 70s if I 
> remember correctly. One day I connected my detector to "antenna" on the wrong 
> side ;-(
> 
> Anybody used oscilloscope to troubleshoot switching power supplies? Not 
> modern battery powered scope mind you. That was fun.
> 
> Since then I touch unknown circuits with one hand but only if I have good 
> shoes on. We have protective gloves now but that was not available in commie 
> paradise.
> 
> Building radio detector was one step in my way to learn electronics trade. 
> Problem is that stupid plug standards in continental EU allow you to plug 
> single phase power cord two ways.
> 
> American standard for power plugs is way better but I don't recommend to use 
> N for an antenna unless it's an emergency and the whole nation is in kernel 
> panic mode. Oh wait, we are.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rafael Skodlar
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

2020-03-16 Thread Robert Murphy

Bashrc could be a way, adjusting the path based on the kernel, a string could 
be added to the kernel command line and by parsing it through 
/proc/somethingicantrememberatm, it’s in the early am here, but I know it exists


Composed with my Crayons 

> On 17 Mar 2020, at 00:48, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 23:32, Robert Murphy  wrote:
>> 
>> I have been thinking of a way to have one Livecd with RTAI & RT_PREEMPT
>> kernels and matching Linuxcnc editions.
> 
> Grub will let you choose kernels.
> 
> When configuring the linuxcnc build LinuxCNC you can choose the
> install destination. ./configure --prefix=~/linuxcnc-uspace or
> --prefix=~/linuxcnc-rtai
> I am not sure how you would automatically choose the right one based
> on kernel, but I bet there is a way.
> 
> -- 
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

2020-03-15 Thread Robert Murphy


Hi Raff,

With Linuxcnc you have the ability to get the sources from git and build
a "Run In Place" setup, doesn't affect your main install and lets you
try out a new version.

I have been thinking of a way to have one Livecd with RTAI & RT_PREEMPT
kernels and matching Linuxcnc editions. A plugin overlay similar to
Salix or Puppy Linux is what I've been thinking of,

but would require creating boot scripts and I feel new user trying it
out may get confused. This is despite how much information is
given.Users tend to gloss over READMEs and instructions.

Luckily running Linuxcnc is not as complicated as a cloud service and
The Management from Above doesn't get involved. If you read the forums
you'd get an idea of some of the things.

Anyways Mate whilst we may not agree on some things there'll will be
some areas where we may.

On 16/3/20 10:15 am, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

On 2020-02-19 00:11, Robert Murphy wrote:


On 19/2/20 5:47 pm, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

. snip

examples of embedded system customization:
https://wiki.st.com/stm32mpu/wiki/OpenEmbedded
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenEmbedded

To naysayers; there's gold in those hills:
https://www.crunchbase.com/hub/hardware-companies#section-recent-activities


One more comment on application distribution. It's based on my
experience from few years ago where "cloud service" was designed on
Centos distribution. Programs, libraries, and configuration files were
packed as RPMs and installed as such. I proposed much simpler and more
flexible packaging, tar files as in Slackware. The advantage would be
in architecture where more than one version of service could be
installed in parallel without interfering with another one.

Active service would be a link 'from the top directory'. Switching
from one version to another one would be simple:
- service  stop,
- relink top directory,
- service  start.

What we were doing was order pizza, stop services, install RPMs on top
of old ones, start services. That process took about 3 hours on all
servers in the evenings when the network traffic was low across the
USA.

In some instances QA requested we roll back. Argghhh! Obviously, same
install process that lasted another 3 hours or so ... My proposed
architecture would be done in less than 15 minutes in my estimation.

Think about LinuxCNC and it's packages. Using Slackware method you
could try to use different version of LCNC to see if it's good for
your CNC setup. If the new version fails (breaks your tool?) you could
run "cnc-admin script" to roll back, i.e. relink the app to previous
version and start it.

/opt/linuxcnc-v2.6/bin  <- binaries or scripts
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.6/etc  <- config files
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.6/lib  <- libraries
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.6/man  <- manual pages
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.8/log  <- log files

/opt/linuxcnc-v2.7/bin
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.7/etc
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.7/lib
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.7/man
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.7/log

/opt/linuxcnc-v2.8/bin
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.8/etc
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.8/lib
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.8/man
/opt/linuxcnc-v2.8/log

Latest release would be:
/opt/linuxcnc -> link to /opt/linuxcnc-v2.8.
Your path to LinuxCNC binaries or scripts would always be
/opt/linuxcnc/bin etc.



Dunno why you are calling that the "Slackware Method" and I've been
running a 24/7 Slackware server for years. Never in all my years I have
seen that method used in Slackware or mentioned in the docs. Actually I

Really?
http://docs.slackware.com/slackware:package_management
" Slackware packages can be found with any of the following extensions:

    tbz - Slackware package archive compressed using bzip2
    tlz - Slackware package archive compressed using lzip
    tgz - Slackware package archive compressed using gzip
    txz - Slackware package archive compressed using xz

... Slackware does not automatically track dependencies and install
dependencies when you install a file"

What's simpler than that???


can't recall any official Slackware packages installing into /opt and
linking as you say. Have you used Slackware ?


Slackware is the first one I used in 1994. Before Ygdrasil, Redhat,
Mandrake, and Debian.

Don't take everything so literally. I was just giving an example for
files locations and a method to switch versions without major changes.
See above.

Ubuntu uses /srv a lot. Put LinuxCNC wherever you want, /cnc,
/usr/local/cnc for what I care. What I wanted to point out is the
simplicity in managing multiple versions of the same application or
service on the same system if tar was used rather than other packaging
system. Dependencies will always be an issue as it was pointed out in
other threads a lot recently.



Puppy Linux and Salix use a "Plug in" file system for apps. But usually
a squashfs file system that can be loaded on boot.

If you read the Linuxcnc docs you'd be aware of a Run In Place install.
Which is the recommended method before a full upgrade.

try this one:
emc

Re: [Emc-users] 6i24 + 7i44 configuration

2020-03-09 Thread Robert Murphy

They are =E2=80=9Ctesting=E2=80=9D in case the guy who put them together mes=
sed up.
All they are is a std Mint ISO with what is required to run linuxcnc. They c=
an be installed and are good for a system, so far as no one has reported any=
 major issues.
Please read the first page fully, then follow the link to the appropriate pa=
ge, read that and download.=20

Composed with my Crayons=20

On 10 Mar 2020, at 04:31, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:

>>=20
>> The kernel in the latest ISOs, from my testing, has better latency than
>> the K=3D
>> ona kernel. Cinnamon is quite resource hungry, MATE is next and XFCE is
>> the l=3D
>> ightest of the three.=3D20
>> Wireless can have a negative effect . Out of interest what machine or
>> mother=3D
>> board specs have you got at your disposal?
>=20
>=20
> I'm using an ASUS A58M-5 with a PCI-Express gpu. I didn't wan to use the
> onboard just in case it increases the latency. The microprocessor is an
> AMD  A4 4000.
>=20
> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:27, Leonardo Marsaglia ()
> escribi=C3=B3:
>=20
>> Why?
>>> The link I gave was to ISO images for prempt-rt and rtai.
>>>=20
>>> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38308-linux-mint-iso-wi=
th-rtai-and-rt?start=3D0
>>=20
>>=20
>> I tried the one on the link to the other thread because the ones shared o=
n
>> drive are meant to be used as live cd for testing, at least that's what i=
t
>> says there. But I can give it a try after work. Let me know if I missed
>> something.
>>=20
>> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 14:13, Robert Murphy ()=

>> escribi=C3=B3:
>>=20
>>> The kernel in the latest ISOs, from my testing, has better latency than
>>> the K=3D
>>> ona kernel. Cinnamon is quite resource hungry, MATE is next and XFCE is
>>> the l=3D
>>> ightest of the three.=3D20
>>> Wireless can have a negative effect . Out of interest what machine or
>>> mother=3D
>>> board specs have you got at your disposal?
>>>=20
>>> Composed with my Crayons=3D20
>>>=20
>>>>> On 10 Mar 2020, at 02:10, andy pugh  wrote:
>>>>> =3D20
>>>>> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 14:18, Leonardo Marsaglia 
>>> w=3D
>>> rote:
>>>>> =3D20
>>>>> I tried Cinnamon desktop and intalled the kernel following the
>>> instructio=3D
>>> ns
>>>>> here :
>>>>>=20
>>> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/36822-linuxcnc-on-linux=
-=3D
>>> mint-19-1-quick-and-easy-installation?start=3D3D0
>>> <https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/36822-linuxcnc-on-linu=
x-=3Dmint-19-1-quick-and-easy-installation?start=3D3D0>
>>>> =3D20
>>>> Why?
>>>> =3D20
>>>> The link I gave was to ISO images for prempt-rt and rtai.
>>>> =3D20
>>>>=20
>>> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38308-linux-mint-iso-wi=
th=3D
>>> -rtai-and-rt?start=3D3D0
>>> <https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38308-linux-mint-iso-w=
ith=3D-rtai-and-rt?start=3D3D0>
>>>> =3D20
>>>> --=3D20
>>>> atp
>>>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>>>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>>>> lunatics."
>>>> =3DE2=3D80=3D94 George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>>> =3D20
>>>> =3D20
>>>> ___
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>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
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>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
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Re: [Emc-users] 6i24 + 7i44 configuration

2020-03-09 Thread Robert Murphy

The kernel in the latest ISOs, from my testing, has better latency than the K=
ona kernel. Cinnamon is quite resource hungry, MATE is next and XFCE is the l=
ightest of the three.=20
Wireless can have a negative effect . Out of interest what machine or mother=
board specs have you got at your disposal?

Composed with my Crayons=20

> On 10 Mar 2020, at 02:10, andy pugh  wrote:
>=20
>> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 14:18, Leonardo Marsaglia  w=
rote:
>>=20
>> I tried Cinnamon desktop and intalled the kernel following the instructio=
ns
>> here :
>> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/36822-linuxcnc-on-linux-=
mint-19-1-quick-and-easy-installation?start=3D0
>=20
> Why?
>=20
> The link I gave was to ISO images for prempt-rt and rtai.
>=20
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38308-linux-mint-iso-with=
-rtai-and-rt?start=3D0
>=20
> --=20
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> =E2=80=94 George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>=20
>=20
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Re: [Emc-users] 6i24 + 7i44 configuration

2020-03-09 Thread Robert Murphy

Which version did you try ?

The XCFE versions, which is the same desktop as Wheezy & Stretch, should
give better latency than the MATE versions.

On 9/3/20 8:51 pm, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

Wheezy is pretty ancient now.
You could try the preempt-rt and rtai ISOs built on Mint here:

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38308-linux-mint-iso-with-rtai-and-rt?start=0

I tried with Mint and then LCNC last night Andy, but the latency test went
crazy as soon as I opened Firefox. I went back to Wheezy for now and I'll
continue testing some other distro to upgrade it later. The good thing is
all the boards are working fine. I only need to test the 7i52s with the
servo motors and I'm ready to switch the control of the lathe.

El dom., 8 mar. 2020 a las 13:18, andy pugh () escribió:

On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 02:29, Leonardo Marsaglia
wrote:

I had really high jitter when I run latency test with Debian Stretch. So

installed Wheezy with LinuxCNC 2.7.14

Wheezy is pretty ancient now.
You could try the preempt-rt and rtai ISOs built on Mint here:

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38308-linux-mint-iso-with-rtai-and-rt?start=0

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC email in /dev/null land

2020-03-07 Thread Robert Murphy

This isn’t a social media platform where ostracism is the answer to “wrong 
think”. It’s all good

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 8 Mar 2020, at 04:09, Rafael Skodlar  wrote:
> 
> This is a test for LinuxCNC broadcasting system.
> 
> For over a week I was wondering if my replies to the thread "Open source CNC 
> architecture" ended in /dev/null. Because there were no other messages from 
> the list it crossed my mind that _somebody in power_ removed me from the 
> mailing list because they don't like my position on that subject matter. 
> Saved emails indicate that some replies to my messages were rather hostile.
> 
> Is it possible that some email is still stuck in the queue?
> 
> My solution to this kind of issue is a proposal to setup a cronjob that sends 
> out a short note about mailing list statistics once a week. Just a few lines 
> or a link to related web page. That way we would know that the mailing list 
> and our subscription, email servers, filters, etc. are all still functional.
> 
> Now that the messages are flowing in again I'm assuming that you guys are 
> simply too busy with your CNC machines to bother with the mailing list. This 
> is good sign.
> 
> -- 
> Rafael Skodlar
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

2020-02-19 Thread Robert Murphy



On 19/2/20 5:47 pm, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

On 2020-02-17 04:49, Les Newell wrote:



  One issue jumps to mind that is different.  The tiny shop I have
doesn't have room for a Keyboard, Mouse and Display by the lathe.  I
currently have a nice work triangle set up for the lathe toolbench
and tool cabinet.  It would require a lot of work to change that at
a cost of space lost somewhere else.


Monitor on the wall behind the lathe? Support arm bolted to the wall
for the keyboard? If you wanted these things you'd make room. As you
don't want them you won't make the room. I'm not saying that's a bad
thing. We just have different requirements.



And that's really, from my perspective all I am talking about.   If
have to add an external intelligence of some sort to do faster
stepping or PWM then the sky's the limit on what is added because
that 3GHz 1GB PC isn't fast enough to do what can be done with a
small 32 bit ARM if the dedicated $250 CNC boxes from China are to
be believed.


Go for it. If you design the board the LinuxCNC developers would be
very willing to help you integrate it with LinuxCNC. Of course you'll
have to be able to produce it at a price that makes it attractive to
buyers.


This is not "start from scratch" situation! We don't live in a vacuum!
SBCs are popping up all over the place:
http://linuxgizmos.com/category/boards/

One sysadmin motto I learned long time ago: "Be a lazy sysadmin. Do
whatever it takes to simplify or minimize your tasks. Just don't tell
to your boss or you'll get even more work to do" ;-)



If you can do it for the right price and if it has the I/O capability
I need I'll buy one for my next machine. The display stuff is of no
interest to me but keypads are always handy. I use modbus for my
keypads at the moment.


First thing to look for is what others are doing using with embedded
systems. Most COTS manufacturers support their products for 5 or even
10 years. And there are alternative HW sources. That should be good
for CNC also.


I guess what I am suggesting is that it's time for LinuxCNC to be
broken apart and a standardized interface for Ethernet control be
developed.  Once that could talk to dumb FPGA devices like the 7i92H
or to full blown standalone CNC controllers that can act as simple
DRO/Power Feed or even simple G-Code like the 3D printers.  Or be
connected to the much more powerful LinuxCNC to add, in addition to
G-Code the fancy tool changing apparatus along with robotic cells
that load and unload the parts.


You are completely missing the point. You don't need to 'break apart'
LinuxCNC. It is designed from the ground up to be modular. The


'break apart' is architectural change just like it happened to so many
GNU-Linux services or programs. Robotics is one of the closest
functions to CNC. Some robots depend on RT kernel but do not have or
need GUI on top of it.

Medical robotics is the most critical example of a device that needs
to work as planned and programmed. What do they use to write programs
or configure the OS? According to one job posting, INTUITIVE SURGICAL
uses something like:
https://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Main_Page
https://www.yoctoproject.org/

Yocto Project works on any architecture. "...You are not locked down
to any one supplier as Yocto Project is both open source and supports
many architectures" except freaky old parallel port!

"...More and more, these types of devices are prototyped (and
sometimes implemented) with easily available consumer hardware devices
such as the Raspberry Pi or the BeagleBone, or MinnowBoard"


trajectory planner is just another module. Want to run an external
box with it's own TP and I/O? No problem. Write a module to replace
it that talks to your TP and you're off to the races. If you have the
knowledge to write your own 6 axis TP on an external board, writing
the HAL module to talk to it will be a piece of cake.

Les


examples of embedded system customization:
https://wiki.st.com/stm32mpu/wiki/OpenEmbedded
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenEmbedded

To naysayers; there's gold in those hills:
https://www.crunchbase.com/hub/hardware-companies#section-recent-activities

One more comment on application distribution. It's based on my
experience from few years ago where "cloud service" was designed on
Centos distribution. Programs, libraries, and configuration files were
packed as RPMs and installed as such. I proposed much simpler and more
flexible packaging, tar files as in Slackware. The advantage would be
in architecture where more than one version of service could be
installed in parallel without interfering with another one.

Active service would be a link 'from the top directory'. Switching
from one version to another one would be simple:
- service  stop,
- relink top directory,
- service  start.

What we were doing was order pizza, stop services, install RPMs on top
of old ones, start services. That process took about 3 hours on all
servers in the evenings when the network traffic was low

Re: [Emc-users] RPI4 is pretty close to a decent machine

2020-02-18 Thread Robert Murphy


John,

I agree the Beagle bone made a very good system, well the first images
from a few years ago. I was using mine to control my mill with a custom
cape.

What turned my to Linuxcnc was just the general support infrastructure.

On 19/2/20 10:26 am, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Wallace,
I've been way more successful although also taken a number of stabs at it 
compared to how easy it was to get MACH2 and then MACH3 working.

Even the BeagleBone was easy because the install came with the hal and ini 
files for  the Xylotex.  So in many ways it was just like installing MACH3.  
Very turnkey.  I probably would have stayed with that config except the Xylotex 
cape was set up for NO switches.  And the enable signal internally on the board 
was the wrong polarity so ultimately that project was shelved.  Perhaps to be 
used with the lathe since limits aren't as big an issue with it.

So I went the route of the dual boot PC and I have used LinuxCNC to mill some 
parts.

Support from both forums has been good.  Given that my hardware is somewhat 
non-standard and has some odd issues, I'm finding that LinuxCNC with respect to 
ENABLE and ESTOP is a bit easier for my system.  I have to much around with the 
big red RESET button and the ONLINE button in MACH to get it to work after a 
fault.

Also all things being equal if it's a simple system with say open loop 
steppers, vfd for spindle I think MACH4 is probably worlds easier to set up and 
the Wizards would be that tipping point for the WOW factor.I was also able 
to easily add the Z probe function to my MACH3 setup on the CNC router and at 
the moment I haven't a clue where to begin on that for the mill.

If your existing mill has a BoB with the standard Parallel Port interface I'd 
suggest you find a PC with a parallel port and start simple.  ESTOP, Home/Limit 
switches and XYZ step/dir.  Don't bother about spindle speed or direction.  Use 
one of the predefined configs if possible.

But if you are used to being able to automatically find the X and Y edges and 
have the 0 set after subtracting half the diameter of your probe you won't find 
that in the standard distribution of  Linux and the AXIS user interface.

If things go well then by this summer I may well have an installation manual 
written that helps someone migrate from a PC WINDOWS MACH3 system to a LinuxCNC 
system.  But there's still a lot to do.

John



-Original Message-
From: Marshland Engineering [mailto:marshl...@marshland.co.nz]
Sent: February-18-20 12:18 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] RPI4 is pretty close to a decent machine

Les - Valuable comments, however, some facts.

I'm and BSc electrical engineer and worked as an industrial control engineer
with PLC, servos etc for a number of years.

I have 2 complete PC with Mesa servo drives, wiring, machines retrofitted
etc.
I been following LinuxCNC for a long time, even years before when it was
EMC2.

I have tried 4+ times over the years to get it all to work. I have yet to get
a one system up and running !!

I do understand that my Linux is limited and that is probably the biggest
factor.

I can buy stuff off the shelf from China and get it working, even Mach3 is
easy.

The only reason I went LinuxCNC is that I can retain the handwheels and use
servo drives.

I am going to make space in my calender this year to try again as I can see
that having it running would be a nice compliment to my SouthWestern
Indistries mill. Thread milling would be great.

PS I forgot, spent 15 years as a commercial programmer.

Cheers Wallace



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Re: [Emc-users] RPI4 is pretty close to a decent machine

2020-02-18 Thread Robert Murphy




On 19/2/20 7:17 am, Marshland Engineering wrote:

Les - Valuable comments, however, some facts.

I'm and BSc electrical engineer and worked as an industrial control engineer
with PLC, servos etc for a number of years.

I have 2 complete PC with Mesa servo drives, wiring, machines retrofitted etc.
I been following LinuxCNC for a long time, even years before when it was EMC2.

I have tried 4+ times over the years to get it all to work. I have yet to get
a one system up and running !!

I do understand that my Linux is limited and that is probably the biggest
factor.

I can buy stuff off the shelf from China and get it working, even Mach3 is
easy.

The only reason I went LinuxCNC is that I can retain the handwheels and use
servo drives.

I am going to make space in my calender this year to try again as I can see
that having it running would be a nice compliment to my SouthWestern
Indistries mill. Thread milling would be great.

PS I forgot, spent 15 years as a commercial programmer.

Cheers Wallace


I'm a basic Builder's\Civil labourer and have had no trouble getting
Linuxcnc up and running.

Linuxcnc had really nothing to do with "Linux Skills" it's being able to
follow instructions as per any new app you would install, regardless of OS.

I can't get my head around Autocad, Fusion 360, is that because my
"Windows Skills" are lacking ?

Rob




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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

2020-02-15 Thread Robert Murphy



On 15/2/20 8:05 pm, Bari wrote:

On 2/15/20 1:42 AM, David Berndt wrote:


How did we get to the point where we decided that the goal is a
"relatively simple embedded system"? I for one am not looking to
trade off the current gui and it's features for what you describe.

It seems like a lot of this thread seems to steer itself in the
machinekit direction in terms of apparent goals/ideals, so I guess
I'd ask, why not start there?



We haven't. Someone just thinks new or different is better. Someone
that has not really worked much with CNC machines but does have an
idea that they think would make things better. It would be newer
without explaining why it would be better, only telling us that it
will be better. So they think newer is better just because it is
newer. I hope I have cleared this up.  :)



Newer is better. Look into my eyes and repeat "newer is better".


Nailed it hahahaha

Come to the Newer is Better side, we have gluten free, sugar free, vegan
soy based cookies.



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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

2020-02-15 Thread Robert Murphy

I've seen mention of the Axis interface being "old fashioned", geesh
what would happen with an extended ASCII interface ?

Maybe cnc routers could be a "plug n play" usually the setups are
relatively easy, materials are more or less flat sheets.

When one starts to delve into milling, well that's a different kettle of
fish. How much time is spent thinking about a setup, then implementing
the setup. In some jobs the actual machining time can seem trivial
compared to the setup. This is where the real skill comes into play,
something I'm still learning and very much in the novice corner in that
respect.

Now what will be the reaction of a user who wants a "plug n play"
solution when they find out about the time spent in setups ?

As much as the Arduino is a great product, it has taken the focus away
from discrete components and to focus on "everything can be done in
software". There are quite a few projects that seem to use an arduino
when it's not really required.

Linuxcnc is somewhat easy to customise by the use of hal comps, would an
embedded system aid in that ?

But I guess the "hipster maker fanbase" wouldn't care, as long as they
can post their latest gizmo on social media.

In relation to Open Source, it's the people who use the software
produced by the project that are creating it. Not some programmer
grinding out code for a day job, that needs an a middle man to be
between the end user & programmer. If that relationship isn't great well
then..

It's seems that this thread is turning more towards an embedded solution
rather than the PC solution Linuxcnc is.

As someone mentioned some of the ideas expressed seem to be more in the
realm of the Machinekit project.

On 15/2/20 5:56 pm, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

On 2020-02-11 01:04, Chris Albertson wrote:

I said people *want* to use CNC like a laser printer. Most
setups are
not that good. It is a goal and if designing a new system. It is
good to
set the bar high and try to do what can't be done today. What I
really
meant was that with a printer, all the critical timing happens in the
printer. There are no servo-loops on the PC and you don't need a
real-time
OS to print to paper. I think people want CNC to work this way.

That's how some CNC machines work. I came across a small woodwork
business owner with very nicely garage that was converted into
workshop. Win PC in the corner for designing parts in CAD, large Axiom
CNC machine with a pendant to control it. Tiny LCD is all that's
needed to select the job, i.e. file from a USB stick.

The owner did not know what's inside the CNC machine itself and he
doesn't care. That's what you say Chris I think and I agree with.

I don't know if there's an option for connecting that CNC machine to
LAN. I would not use wireless connections for such as it's security
issue due to hacking possibility in the neighborhood. Another
possibility is noise on WhyFy frequencies from appliances, bad power
lines, etc.

In any case, that CNC machine does not have or need a PC computer with
modern GUI interface connected directly to run it. That's why I
started this discussion. X-windows is waste of resources, it's another
thing that needs to be maintained and updated in some instances. Too
many things to go bad in what's supposed to be a relatively simple
embedded system.

The tiniest user interface would be possible using extended ASCII
characters as in old DOS. We used to play with that in old email
signatures. My fun with ASCII art in the 1990s:

. . . . . . . . o o o o O o
___ ___ _ O
| Rafael Skodlar | | LINUX | ]OO|_n_n__][.
| ra...@mydomain.com |=| Support |=||=[]_|__|)<
oo~~oo~ ~~oo~~~oo~~ oo oo 'oo -| oo\_
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+

Add colors, lines, and block characters and ... you see the picture
that's taking extremely little memory by today standards.
Simple ASCII DRO + G-code scroll window and 4x4 keypad would be enough
for most work. No need for keyboard, mouse and X-windows on large
monitor.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 3:06 PM Bari wrote:

A laser printer is a good example of how people really want a CNC
mill to
work. You design you document on the computer then press "print"
and the
printer creates it. After the last of the data is moved to the
printer
you can turn the PC off it you like.

Why it's not that simple:

https://www.machinedesign.com/3d-printing-cad/article/21122653/top-11-myths-of-cnc-machining

the article states:
Myth #4: G/M Code is a Thing of the Past

That's true too. It amazes me that the industry did not go away from
primitive code by today standards. G-code was only modified or updated
by some CNC machines manufacturers as far as I know but most of G-code
is still the same. Compare that to computer/software advancements
since 1980s. Perl, php, python, Go, html, etc.

Re: [Emc-users] Linuxcnc 2.9.0 hangs

2020-02-12 Thread Robert Murphy


Have you seen this on the forums

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/gmoccapy/36942-debian-10-dependencies?start=10#149669

On 12/2/20 2:24 pm, Thomas D. Dean wrote:

On 2020-02-05 01:57, andy pugh wrote:

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 04:25, Thomas D. Dean 
wrote:


How do I do a clean install of buster rtai and llinuxcnc?


Experimental at the moment. But:
1) Install Buster
2) Download the .debs at www.linuxcnc.org/temp
3) Install the Linux-image and Linux-headers debs
  sudo apt-get install ./linux-image-4.14.148-rtai-amd64.deb
  sudo apt-get install ./linux-headers-4.14.148-rtai-amd64.deb
4) Reboot and choose the new kernel in the grub menu.
5) Install the remaining .debs

This will give you a version of 2.8 that is a few months old. Buster
is currently being trained to build preemp-rt versions on Buster.



I did this and failed.  There are unmet dependencies.

I installed Debian 10 from debian-10.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
Boot Debian 10 - OK
sudo apt-get install ./linux-image-4.14.148-rtai-amd64.deb - OK
sudo apt-get install ./linux-headers-4.14.148-rtai-amd64.deb - OK
Boot linux-image-4.14.148-rtai-amd64 - There seems to be some problem
  with the gnome display.  I had to use ctrl-alt-f2 and then alt-f1 to
  get the display to start.  This problem repeated on subsequent boots.

# uname -a
Linux sherline 4.14.148-rtai-amd64 #2 SMP PREEMPT Sat Nov 9 16:29:10
GMT 2019 x86_64 GNU/Linux

# sudo apt-get install ./linuxcnc_2.8.0~pre1_amd64.deb \
   ./linuxcnc-dev_2.8.0~pre1_amd64.deb
...
 linuxcnc : Depends: libboost-python1.62.0 but it is not installable
    Depends: python-gtksourceview2 but it is not installable
    Depends: python-vte but it is not installable
    Recommends: hostmot2-firmware-all but it is not installable
 linuxcnc-dev : Depends: yapps2-runtime but it is not installable

These packages do not seem to be in the Debian 10 repository,
including contrib and non-free.  They were installed when the .deb
files were generated.

Where are they?

Tom Dean


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

2020-02-08 Thread Robert Murphy

I think you are referring to a hump yard, usually there are retarders, one on 
each rail that slows the rolling stock. A very sophisticated setup in this 
modern era.

Composed with my Crayons 

On 9 Feb 2020, at 00:27, N  wrote:

>>> On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
>>> Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better 
>>> there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First 
>>> time I heard about the accident there an oil train have 
>>> crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on 
>>> locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later 
>>> however I learned fire department put out fire and did not 
>>> know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system 
>>> is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
>> Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train 
>> loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the 
>> locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake 
>> would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.  
>> One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called 
>> and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.  
>> About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train 
>> rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning 
>> an entire small town to the ground.
>> 
>> As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not 
>> been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was 
>> used on steam locomotives before Diesels.
> 
> Have seen example on youtube there a canadian train break in two there breaks 
> are automatically applied on the last wagons so they stop. Have also seen 
> some movies/examples of runaway train from USA but do not think this is a big 
> problem in other countries. Tried to find information on train brakes in 
> Sweden, compressed air is used to release break, think a spring is used to 
> apply brake but failed to find information. I however know there is some kind 
> of system to realese brakes so they could roll on there own then split and 
> building new trains, it is common a small hill is used for this to get wagons 
> slowly rolling, there is a switch so they could not get out onto ordinary 
> track in this case, maybe some other limitation.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

2020-01-27 Thread Robert Murphy

I'm a hobbyist and I like the fact that Linuxcnc is an all in "one package".

I don't want to be messing with different modules, Machinekit is going
down that route, maybe it be better for you to have a discussion with
the developers there.

Tormach seem to like the LCNC architecture, so much so that they
actually put something back into the project.

I'm interested in a couple of things:

1: Are you a active user of Linuxcnc ?

2: Why venture capital funding ?

3: What are you hoping to gain and how much project control are you
expecting to have ?

4: Why not raise your own capital, fork Linuxcnc and go in the direction
you seem fit ?

This whole thread rings similar to the guy who was wanting grbl support
added on the forum.

On 27/1/20 3:50 pm, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

Never expected that saddle on a cow comment would trigger so many
patties ;-)

LinuxCNC is not only about RT kernel as some threads seem to spin
around to no end. It seems that Chris understood my original post the
best. What he pointed out is use of modern technologies that makes it
possible to create advanced systems we could only dream about years ago.

Those of you that have a problem with that please do some research on
industry trends. Then stick heads together and see how much of that
could be built for DIY crowd that fall in the following categories:
- hobby,
- light industrial use,
- advanced industrial use

GNU Linux and other open source software made it through those stages
in early years. In my opinion CNC systems need to be looked at as
robotic devices instead of exotic things that cannot be improved
beyond what LinuxCNC and alike (?) are doing at this time.

This page describes pretty much what Chris was saying I believe:
https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/modern-cnc-control-systems-for-high-speed-machining

"The CNC consists of the following main components:

Operator panel based on industry-compatible PC technology for the
man/machine interface (MMI)
CNC control unit (NCU)
Programmable controller (PLC)
Drive modules for machine tool axes and spindles (feed drives VSA,
and main spindle drive HSA)
Motors (AC motors and linear drives)
Supply and energy recovery unit (S/E unit)

As each drive module, the NCU, the PLC and the operator's panel each
contain a processor, a modern CNC can also be seen as a multiprocessor
system."

That makes it clear that it's CRAZY to use PC motherboard for running
all functions of a CNC system. I see some on this list keep mentioning
PPort; please get off the dead horse or jump the ship!

If I could, I would tell this to Ken Olson, DEC CEO, in the early 90's
when DEC started to deteriorate in the 90s. To fill the gap, there was
at least one manufacturer making PDP compatible boards that you could
plug into PC-AT if I remember correctly. They might be still around.

Architectures like PDP-8, PDP-11, and HP-1000 that I supported long
ago were designed for industrial use: power plants, electric power
distribution, steel mills, etc. Why is that important to bring up
here? Computer architecture. PC sucks! It's based on the 80's 8086 and
beyond that. It was not designed for industrial use in the first
place. At best, PCs were used as dumb terminals to mainframe size
computers.

PDP CPU, instruction set, memory, interrupts architecture, and Unibus
is where the magic was. Interfaces/controllers were able to interrupt
main program or OS based on their priority. Critical interfaces in the
Unibus backplane had higher priority; disk drive controllers or DIO
over printer or terminal, etc.

What about LinuxCNC? You want to poll parallel port in a loop and
watch it in fake scope? Count motor steps or it's encoder? Really? Or
have smart motors or sensors tell exactly the tool position? CNC
components are getting cheaper so we can afford more and more of them
to assemble CNC machines or upgrade the existing ones and have
LinuxCNC handle all of it.

CNC systems also have sections that have higher priority than others.
Comparing this to supercomputers is just silly. I don't care what any
individual uses for their work as long as it does not scare the horses.

I admire and understand that those who converted huge CNC machines 5+
years ago want to keep them running 'as is' as long as possible. Some
machines might be used as fully functional museum artifacts and that's
fine too. More power to them.

My interest in robotics made me come across interesting but expensive
solutions in that field. Robots loading and unloading material and
parts are interacting with CNC machines. How would LinuxCNC work in
that environment? Watch GUI? Not easily. Give me a break. Leave user
GUI off the main system!

https://www.universal-robots.com/how-tos-and-faqs/how-to/ur-how-tos/remote-control-via-tcpip-16496/

https://www.universal-robots.com/how-tos-and-faqs/how-to/ur-how-tos/real-time-data-exchange-rtde-guide-9/

https://blog.universal-robots.com/how-to-get-robots-to-talk-to-each-other
MODBUS anybody?

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers (Jon Elson)

2020-01-26 Thread Robert Murphy


I think with Machinekit they seem to be trying to add too much too soon.

From my Boof Head point of view, too many Bells & Whistles to keep the
"Maker Community" interested and the basics have seemed to be neglected.
TBH I could also be wrong on this point.

In saying that I did use Machinekit & a BeagleBone Black with a custom
cape. Tho I did jump to Linuxcnc with a couple Mesa boards as I found
LCNC Community support to be light years ahead of Machinekit.

The Machinekit google seems to be active, but no where near as active as
the various LCNC support channels.


Machinekit has done some very nice things. Where they fall down is
they seem to have no stable release model. It seems that anybody can
change anything and there is no fallback to a stable release.

I tried to build Machinekit for the RockPro64 and I ran into changes
several months old that had broken the system but were undiscovered.
The “developers” were running on their own systems that compiled and
ran without testing the current branch. But, there was no way I could
find for someone else to check out a system that compiled and ran.

Eventually I was able to fix the problems and compile, but, it left
me wondering about the whole system.



Yes, Machinekit seems to have collapsed.  There is a fully workable
version from 2-3 years ago, but I can't tell that
there is still any work being done on it.  Which is too bad.  On the
other hand, I think there is a distro for running
LinuxCNC on the Beagle Bone, and maybe that is the best way forward.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Erik Chrstiansen, the Aussie?

2020-01-24 Thread Robert Murphy

I wouldn’t trust those overlay maps, one of those shown by ABC America had 
parts of Central Australia on fire, which truth be told is just sand and a lot 
of Very Hot. If it was flammable the Black Fellas would have set on fire 50k 
years ago or however long they have been here.
The facts for the 3 Eastern states are.
Victoria: they have had much worse in the past
Queensland: As per Victoria
NSW: About the largest area burnt

On a more serious note 3 Americans lost their lives when one of planes used to 
quell the fires went down, a bunch of young blokes in their 40’s. No reason for 
the crash yet, that will take a while to sort out.
Rest In Peace, and our sympathies to their families. 

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 24 Jan 2020, at 23:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
>> On Friday 24 January 2020 05:16:48 Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> 
>>> On 18.01.20 00:08, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> With all the fires down under, he hasn't posted since 12 October.
>>> 
>>> Wondering if he and his new place is ok?
>> 
>> Many thanks, Gene, for the thoughts. (I only come back to town, and
>> the internet two weekends per month, while trying to push the build
>> along - insulating, then painting in Nov/Dec.)
>> 
>> So far, the only strife at the farm is choking smoke when the wind's
>> in the wrong direction - but that is also colouring New Zealand
>> glaciers and making the sky grey in Chile, so it's pretty useless to
>> bitch when I'm only 60 km from the western edge of the big patch (1.4
>> million hectares (3.5 million acres¹) of fires around Mallacoota,
>> Sarsfield, etc. (I am a bit stiff from putting in 150 m of 40 mm poly
>> pipe for a fire main with hydrants at the building corners, and a
>> demountable petrol driven fire pump, so it's harder to pinch. I've
>> bought a Grundfos electric variable speed boost pump for domestic
>> supply from 21,000 gallons of tanks (when they're filled - arrived
>> yesterday, just _after_ we had over 100 mm of rain in 2 days, a third
>> of what we had all last year, or the year before. The electric pump
>> can be cranked up to 62m head, hopefully enough for standing off hours
>> of ember attack prior to fire arrival. I'm adding a valve so it can
>> feed the fire main instead of the house. A fire fighting pump must
>> have continuous flow to keep it cool, which is not good with a finite
>> water supply, but the electric one shuts down when you close off the
>> nozzle on the fire hose. We'll see how it works out.)
>> 
>> Even several weeks after the fire peak, the only way through on the
>> only highway between the east of Victoria and the rest of the state is
>> with the military in Bushmaster armoured cars, as the clearing of
>> fallen and dangerous trees is ongoing. An escorted convoy was allowed
>> out to the north, into New South Wales, then back via Canberra for
>> those wanting back to Victoria - a helluva drive.
>> 
>> Today we lost a 3-man retardant-bombing crew from USA when a C130 went
>> in.
> 
> Ouch. My sympathies for the mens families. I'm reading of quite a few in 
> the entertainment business here who have collectively donated quite a 
> few millions to the firefighting efforts.  Probably just a drop in the 
> bucket compared to whats needed though. 
> 
>> Quite a few firefighters have given their all and then some this 
>> season, one when a fire tornado flipped an 8 tonne firetruck onto its
>> roof. I think we have about a hundred really experienced American
>> firefighters here to rotate with our strike team leaders and managers.
> 
>> The glorious rain didn't put the fires out, but it really reduces the
>> rate of spread.
>> 
>> Much of the burnt country is forest, but there's a lot of stock with
>> nothing but charcoal and ash to eat, so there's a lot of stock feed
>> going past our farm on the highway. I was in town on Saturday, and a
>> convoy of 30 semitrailers loaded to the gunwales with hay went east,
>> and at the petrol station they said another of 15 semitrailers had
>> gone through earlier in the day. A few days before I met a convoy of
>> 15 loads of donated hay. How much is going through the rest of the
>> time?
> I don't have a clue, but I don't imagine theres enough to keep it going 
> for long enough to save all the stock.
> 
>> The rain makes the rest of us at a distance much safer. Heck, for the
>> first time in a year, there's a foot of water in the bottom of the
>> best dam on the property,
> 
> Not much in the grand scheme of things.
> 
>> and there's green grass shooting up all 
>> over. If there's a bit of follow-up rain here and there, we could
>> start farming again. (The only animals on the place are kangaroos,
>> wallabies, and wombats, now. One of the latter started digging a 2
>> foot diameter burrow in the soft sand of the fill pad under the new
>> build. I've twice chased him across the paddock after midnight at 25
>> km/h in the ute, with headlights on high beam and honking the horn. I
>> didn't know they could run that fast on those stubby

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

2020-01-20 Thread Robert Murphy

Based on my research the sky isn’t blue ( bushfires can have a temporary 
affect, and yes the sky ain’t blue at night, but you get my drift) ..but 
that don’t make it the truth.
As for GRBL, as good as the arduino platform is, and I have ideas about what is 
has done to the electronics hobby, it really is not in the same universe as 
LCNC for running a machine. 


Composed with my Crayons 

> On 20 Jan 2020, at 22:03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
>> On Monday 20 January 2020 00:42:17 Rafael Skodlar wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
>>> well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a
>>> permanent setup
>>> 
>>> So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ron
>> 
>> Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting
>> saddle on a caw.
>> 
>> Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production
>> environments or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless
>> hours to find out if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including
>> LinuxCNC with their products. Most small to medium size CNC machines
>> in built or kit forms, come with Mach or some other thing. When the
>> subject matter comes up I don't recommend their product because it's
>> only available on crippled OS.
>> 
>> After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of
>> misunderstanding about using Linux in small business environments. I
>> hate to write it, but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with
>> new or DIY CNC machines. When I tried to get small business owners or
>> others at trade shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are
>> impossible to answer. What kind of computer and other electronics HW
>> are needed, who's supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.
>> 
>> I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list.
>> Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main
>> purpose.
>> 
>> Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are
>> just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in
>> their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to
>> EU I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
>> 
>> LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial
>> use and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the
>> requirements advertised anywhere.
>> 
>> If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC
>> instead of putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would
>> be a headless Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for
>> different size machines. GUI would be running on separate system
>> connected over ethernet, USB, or even wireless in some cases. Numerous
>> robots work that way.
> 
> What utter anti LinuxCNC garbage.  Sure. linuxcnc can run when x is 
> forwarded, but the forward process limits the screen update speed, so 
> its best running X on its own computer.  For instance, using an rpi4b to 
> run my 11x54 Sheldon lathe with a miss-configured kernel, its stuck in 
> the on-demand governor, the axis display frame rate is 60 fps. With a 
> gigabit network, and displaying 2.9-pre linuxcnc on this screen its 
> about 3 fps.
> 
> I bought myself a 6040 gantry mill a year ago. Came with a cd that 
> installed mach. 30 ipm max. Came with a 24 volt motor supply so 
> underrated it actually was in foldback at 14 volts if the rotary axis 
> was plugged in. Couldn't control the builtin vfd with it, China could 
> not/would not supply English docs on its vfd. So I grabbed the computer 
> that had been running a small 4 axis HF mill for about 16 years and 
> junked the control box the 6040 came with, putting the motor drivers and 
> a real vfd into the 6040.  Now it can move XY at 200 ipm and the spindle 
> is operated from linuxcnc at any speed in either direction. Because the 
> spindle is heavy, z-up maxes at about 35 ipm, but it also has a toy 
> motor (smallest nema 23 I've ever seen, lamination stack under 7/8 inch 
> long) on that axis that will get replaced eventually.
> 
> As far as your statement about no commercial use?  Do some research 
> instead of spouting off like the expert you aren't, Tormach makes some 
> nice tabletop cnc machines, for a price of course, but that IS LinuxCNC 
> behind a gui they wrote called PathPilot.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Erik Chrstiansen, the Aussie?

2020-01-17 Thread Robert Murphy

Fires shouldn’t be a problem for a bit, as usual we’ll be having floods soon.
Been raining most of the week, not too much but as sure as, it’ll be out of 
hand soon.

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 18 Jan 2020, at 16:08, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> With all the fires down under, he hasn't posted since 12 October.
> 
> Wondering if he and his new place is ok?
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] GNOME fury: Linux desktop org swings ax at patent troll's infringement claim • The Register

2019-11-25 Thread Robert von Knobloch


May be of interest:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/22/gnome_linux_lausuit/


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

2019-08-16 Thread Robert Murphy


I hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick with the following.

Look in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules

It should be thereif not, you may have to update the Wheezy sources
( if you haven't already as Wheezy is EOL, it's be explained on the
forums) and re install/update Linuxcnc.

You'll want an Preempt-RT kernel rather than the rtai you'd use for the
Parallel port and the uspace version of Linuxcnc. Which now I think
about this could be the issue.

Or you could install the preempt-rt kernel, boot with that kernel and do
a RIP install of uspace linuxcnc and not screw up your existing install.

Or if you have the disk space, shrink the wheezy install (or use some
free space) and install the stretch version of Linuxcnc on a new
partition, if you can avoid it don't share a swap partition between the
2 installs. It can be done, but it's a bit of a hassle when you reboot
the old install.

If you haven't seen JT's pages here's the Wheezy Link

http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian7-rt.html#

On 16/8/19 3:21 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi everyone,
I'm working on creating the hal file for the system using the 7i92H connected 
to the parallel port based PMDX-126 Break Out Board.  I have LinuxCNC running 
with a parallel port so the hardware is good.

Rather than stand in the shop I have a second office PC with an Wheezy version 
of Linux on it.  I can ping the 7i92H so it's visible to the OS.

But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:

loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0 num_pwmgens=0 
num_stepgens=5"

It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".

The Shop PC can also connect to 7i92H and when I run a hal file that has the 
above line it doesn't have any trouble.   I guess I could install the newer 
LinuxCNC on the office PC but I'm curious more than troubled.

And I'd rather work in my office at my bench where I have 4 trace scope, 
agilent pulse generator and some BoB's to be able to simulate and work out the 
details before I connect to real hardware.  It's where my PC is with all the 
reference documents etc.  The one in the shop isn't even connected to the 
internet at the moment.

So what's the best route?  Correct answer is probably upgrade the PC.  But if 
it can't find it either then I'm really no further ahead.  So I'd rather know 
the why...

Thanks
John




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Re: [Emc-users] ... unexpected real time delay --> iptables: Permission denied (you must be root)

2019-07-24 Thread Robert Murphy


DHCP for static leases is good when you have a few machines and change
settings like DNS or gateway addresses for example. Saves having to go
to every machine change settings. Or you want to do a wholesale change
to a networkfrom 192.168.1.xxx to 10.10.xxx.xxx network (netmask
would get changed in this example as well)


As for the error..I've seen that come up when I've installed
linuxcnc on slackware. If you aren't too concerned about security you
can change the permissions on the iptables binary.


On 24/7/19 7:11 pm, Mark wrote:

On 7/23/19 20:24, Chris Albertson wrote:

Here on my network, I have a few fixed location computers and some
notebooks and a pile of phones and tablets.    All but the fixed
location
machines get moved around and are sometimes running on other
networks.   I
don't want my phone of notebooks to be static.  I want these mobile
devices
to connect using DHCP to whatever network they are near.  So I need
DHCP at
home.   If you have any mobile devices that you need to have DHCP.

Once you already have DHCP how much extra work is it to make the IP
lease
fixed?  One or two mouse clicks.  Then you have a central place to do
all
the IP assignments and there is little chance to using the same IP
twice.



You're still talking about mobile devices.  Do you consider a CNC
machine a mobile device?

The "D" in DHCP is for "dynamic."  Why bother with it when you can set
the IP address statically at build/configure time once and you don't
have to worry about it again?  It's not like you're going to take your
CNC machine to Starbucks with you.  A few clicks on your DHCP server
and you can set a range of static IP addresses too.

Mark



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Re: [Emc-users] Possible controller?

2019-07-03 Thread Robert Murphy

I just picked up a HP ML150 gen 5 for AUD $31, Virtualisation can be turned on 
and I haven’t played with the power settings yet. 
Just cos they were cheap I ordered a matched pair of E5450 and a second fan 
heatsink.
The down side is these boxes don’t play nicely with gpus and there is no x16 
slot. 
I have managed to install lubuntu with raid card, which will go, and mess 
around with linuxcnc.
Don’t exactly know what this box will end up as but it was cheap enough to have 
as a mess around box.

Composed with my Crayons 

> On 4 Jul 2019, at 03:38, bari  wrote:
> 
> How often do you find one by HP that actually lets you turn off all the
> virtualization and power management in the BIOS? I haven't been lucky
> with finding one yet.
> 
>> On 7/3/19 12:22 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> If what you
>> are looking for is "compute power per dollar in a compact space" the buy an
>> HP server in a 1U
>> 
>> chassis that just came off lease.  They will be about 4X more powerful and
>> 1/2 the price of these mini-PCs. But they take up more cubic inches of
>> space.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Atomic pi

2019-05-27 Thread Robert Murphy


Quick update..

After seeing JT's thread on the forum I installed Lubuntu Bionic-Beaver.
Followed the instructions for building the kernel (used make deb-pkg),
more or less used the Mint 19 recipe to build Linuxcnc (did this on my
T530 Thinkpad). Installed said kernel & packages on the Atomic Pi.

Running latency-histogram --nobase saw some very promising figures. I
had to add isolcpus=0,1,3 (no that's not a typo).

I have another kernel to try with 1000Hz timer, instead of 250Hz and
we'll see if that has any better results.

I have been trawling the interwebs for some tweaks for RT kernel but
many are old.



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Re: [Emc-users] Atomic pi

2019-05-20 Thread Robert Murphy


Just a quick update.

Installed debian stretch (r13?), all went smooth, installed a backported
kernel (4.19) and ATM am testing various boot options to get latency to
a better value (may even recompile kernel after more research).

So far it looks like it may work with a MESA ethernet card.

Unfortunately it appears the board may have been bought via auction as
excess stock. Another thing the DL website appears to be down when
trying to access OS images & docs. (From Oz anyways)

The Atomic Pi may have been the basis for a robotics project (these
tidbits I got from the Atomic Pi reddit page).


On 20/5/19 10:15 am, Robert Murphy wrote:

My Atomic should be here today.

Ethernet is on the PCIe bus (if that hasn't been mentioned)

The BBB is a great platform for a compact solution but AFAIK machinekit
is the only option for PRU support. I've been running my setup for about
a year now.



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[Emc-users] Atomic pi

2019-05-19 Thread Robert Murphy


My Atomic should be here today.

Ethernet is on the PCIe bus (if that hasn't been mentioned)

The BBB is a great platform for a compact solution but AFAIK machinekit
is the only option for PRU support. I've been running my setup for about
a year now.



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[Emc-users] using Screw Comp file are values interpolated question

2018-10-02 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

Does any one know if the points inbetween nominal values are 
interpolated or not in a screw comp table?


ie if i have 10mm nominal and 20mm nominal with correction values. would 
say 15mm travel become an interpolated value for screw comp?



i had a look in motion.c , control.c and command.c

but i was unable to decide for my self maybe someone thats more able to 
read and understand the code can tell me for sure.


i did see a slope value get worked out in command.c

/* calculate slopes from previous entry to the new one */


thanks, rob



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Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

2018-09-29 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

i will share a program file for "refferance use" , its from a citizen 
twin spindle, sliding head lathe

https://pastebin.com/kBuw1mR4

X , and Y on the main slide with tooling also
Z is on its own slide that the main spindle moves on.

X and Z is on the slide with the sub spindle

$1 is for path 1 in the control
$2 is for path2 in the control
$0 is just a setup file to set the slide platern type, bar size, 
clearance for tool hights ..



each program can address the main or sub spindle or power tooling as 
seen in the program in part off section of code.

and each program can command coolant direction change etc

!L# is wait commands or more so sync commands where the machine has to 
be in postion/done part of a program before one or the other path's can 
carry on.
!L must be increasing values and can not be reused. find this works well 
for syncing over what iv seen other controlls do.


G811 syncs the two Z slides together so as the main slide (z) moves the 
slave (z)follows so you can part off with a chamfer or support a long 
shaft while you work on it from the main turning/power tools.


might give someone afew ideas of how things can be..
nakamuura machines come to mind when talking about real multitasking 
lathes also



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Re: [Emc-users] Water or Air cooled spindles

2018-06-13 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

In our spindles on our Horizontal etc they use Oil as the cooling , with 
a chiller that chills it right now to aset point to keep it at a 
constant temp. , this is put through the motor and the spindle to stop 
any thermal grouth transmitted and also cool motor instead of forced air.


i think its something like ISO 10/15 grade oil

i know oil is not as good at transmitting heat than water etc but at 
least it does not rust or clug things so easy over time. must be why 
they run it at  amuch lower temp than expsected..

plus for hobby use you would need a chiller and not just a pump and rad..




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Re: [Emc-users] Mill head travel

2018-05-08 Thread Robert Ash



  
On Tuesday 08 May 2018 19:57:15 John Dammeyer wrote:

> I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table
> and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the T-Slots. 
> For the work I've done to date it's been adequate.  It fits on my
> surface plate so I could scrape it even flatter and maybe someday it
> will move up to project #42.
>
> John

>And thats the only correct answer, with credits to the Hitch-hikers guide 
>of course. ;-)

>Actually, that does sound like a decent solution to that problem. It 
>would certainly speed it up quite a bit.

>Now to find a disk and flatten it...

Robert Ash-So, would a new disc brake be ok or need finer finish?If it can be 
used as is..I have a new one that someone could get for a ship pickup order. I 
think I gave 4 bucks for it and bearing hub at Flea sale.Robert AshNDBGA
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Gerber Dimension 200 (Todd Zuercher)

2018-04-28 Thread Robert Ash


Time to bone up on reverse engineering skills. If it's operational, a 
meter/scope and structured commands may do. Non-Op-, board analysis by chip and 
trace? My 2%, maybe. **Has 
anyone here ever converted a Gerber Scientific Dimension 200 (D-200) to 
Linuxcnc?

It uses Gerber's ARCStation as a controller, that is connected by a 37 pin 
cable to the driver box, inside which is one large driver board and the power 
supply that drives the 3 stepper motors on the machine.

I am sure that it would probably be easy to control with Linuxcnc if only I 
could find some clue to the wiring of the 37pin cable.  That is an awful lot of 
wires for a simple 3 axis machine, But all of the documentation I can find has 
no wiring schematics, and are rather dumbed down (plug cable A into plug B...) 
with no real useful info.

Todd Zuercher
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[Emc-users] Random Tool changer issue/Bug

2017-08-16 Thread robert - Innovative-RC


Hi

using the machine today i noticed a little odd bug,
this only happens on a machine with random changer and non random does 
not see this bug


when you abort a program with a pre called tool, and run press start 
again, the machine will see first M6 and do a tool change regardless of 
the first T word, see test program below

this happens on 2.7 and checked on pre2.8 still the same

run this problem
g91 g28 z0
t1 m6
t2 g90 g00 g43 h1 z100. (abort here or after it)
g04 p20.
g91 g28 z0
t2 m6
m30

if you run this program, abort on line 3 or after it, then resun it, the 
tool will be changed for Tool 2
its like the precall takes priority , and line 2's T1 has no effect 
untill M6 is carried out


on a non ramdon tool changer machine this bug is not seen running this 
same program


maybe someone can check this, not sure where to look for this bug code wise

rob


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Re: [Emc-users] G-code to support multiple spindles.

2017-07-19 Thread robert - Innovative-RC





But there is another option that has some appeal, but is a marked
departure. G-code does not use the $ character. But it looks a bit
like an S-for-spindle. If we used that to define the spindle then
there is no chance of a "collision" with any other G-code dialect (and
I think that Remapping would then ve free to emulate any other G-code
dialect).




This tends to get used for Multi path contorls that use 1 file per
program construct
$1 (program/path 1)
$2 (program/path 2)

but if linuxcnc did have multipath it could use %1,%2 etc

!n (n=a number in equence) tends to get use for multipath controls where
you need to sync programs or wait for another program etc
L i have seen used but tends to be a basic wait code but again this depends on 
control, this was on a mitsubishi

on one lathe we have which has 3 spindles it uses Sn=

also just S = spindle 0

so
s0=200 is spindle0 200rpm
s1=100 is spindle1 100rpm

 but dont forget some times you need to run Spindle 1 forward, spindle 2
reverse, as if its a sub for pickup one has to be CW, other CCW to grip the 
part and exchange from spindle to spindle
this is why you tend to find on lathes multi direction M codes
ie
M03 M04

M53 M54
etc

but this varys on controls.

i wonder what a more up to date control program looks like on a multi path 
multi spindle machine like the newer nakamuras etc

 rob


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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

2017-05-10 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

i think you are looking for something you get on machines with Pallet 
systems attached mostly

normaly they have a screen on the pallet end where you can set what job 
is set to which pallet, the newer machins you can also set which jobs 
are set to each pallet face (or multi jobs to a pallet face), and then 
turn them on and off as needed (also a program can flag/turn a program 
also if it detect broken tools etc)

kinda of a must if your running production on a pallet system.







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[Emc-users] New Retrofit , using ABS Encoders & Analog or digital servo com

2017-04-07 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

Hi

just in the process of planning out a new retrofit on a machine as the 
old control has fell over and the cost of fixing it  is very high

long storie short its going to get an upgrade to linuxcnc like the other 
machines i have now.

i am just in the process of picking out the new servo motors as i cant 
not reuse whats on there currently
  its been a while since i have had a chance to keep up with current 
devel of linuxcnc

First questoin is
i am just wondering what is the current state of using ABS encoders with 
linuxcnc,
is it fully implemented , ie what about when the encoder bat goes 
flat/postion is lost  can you still rehome machine normlay and does 
linuxcnc know postion is wrong/missing and force a rehome. like other 
machines i have do.
what about multiturn or single turn abs encoder, servo drives i am 
looking at would have a 17bit ABS

2nd question
wondering weather to go with Analog servo drive input or now is the time 
to move on to ethercat servo drive interface. i like the idea of 
ethercat more simple wiring etc.i see alot are using the drive in 
postion mode with ethercat so i guess one needs to tune up the drive 
well on the drive its self like using PID in linuxcnc just you no longer 
have a PID in hal any more correct?
i guess postion loop becomes as good as having the PID with in hal,

throughts on this subject any one?

this is on a 5 axis VMC machine with some large servos , more so a 
Matsuura doign 15m/min rapids

rob





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[Emc-users] Servo Motor Retrofit sizing

2017-04-04 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

Hi

i am planning to retrofit a machine i will change the servo motors as 
current ones are faulty etc
anyways i know the motor ratings on the machine right now as follows

Yaskawa USAFED-30FS20E
Rated 18.6Nm
Continuou Max 22.5Nm
Peak max 54.1Nm
Rated Speed 1500rpm
Max Speed 2000rpm
Torque Constant 0.98Nm/A
Moment of Inertia jm(=GD2/4) 110.0kg.m2x10-4
Power 2.9Kw

now the servo i was looking at replacing with has the same torques but a 
lower Inertia Jm value. what effects does this have on the 
accell/deaccel , i know motor it self takes less toque to accel its 
self.. but how does this related back to the load wanting to carry on 
moving when trying to deaccel it, what are the the realworld or other 
impacts on the motor/drive , am i more likly to see higher bus 
voltage/regen problems from the motor loading, as this motor is on a Z 
axis and has no counter balance so the motor is braked for parking...
motor runs at 1500rpm, screw is 10mm pitch i am not looking to go any 
faster just keep things the same ratings etc

motor i was looking at replacing with is, as torque match's,
Rated 19.1Nm
Peak  57.3Nm
Rated Speed 1000rpm
max speed 1500rpm
Rotor Moment of Inertia 53.5kg.m2x10-4
Power 2.0Kw

or i go the next motor up
Rated 28.7Nm
Peak  86.0Nm
Rated Speed 1000rpm
max speed 1500rpm
Rotor Moment of Inertia 77.8kg.m2x10-4
Power 3.0Kw

maybe someone here can add some insight into what to watch out for when 
resizing/replacing servos in CNC systems etc

just when you look up about servo sizing alot talk about the inertia 
ratio etc..

thanks, Rob


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Re: [Emc-users] Version 2.7 positioning problem during cnc operations

2017-03-29 Thread Robert Ellenberg

I agree on both counts, that G0 should always be exact stop, and that the
behavior should be  configurable via an INI setting (maybe not HAL, because
switching settings online would have weird side effects). It should be an
easy change (there is one location in the TP that does pre-checks for
blending, so it would be simple to make it reject G0 moves).

Rob

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 2:05 PM sam sokolik  wrote:

> I agree somewhat.  :)  I think it should be a hal pin or a ini setting
>
> sam
>
> On 3/29/2017 12:43 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > My personal opinion is that all G0 moves should always be exact stop
> positioning moves not blended moves.  To treat them as anything else seems
> silly.  If the previous behavior of Linuxcnc was to blend them, then it is
> just plane wrong and should be corrected.  Having multiple G0 moves
> executed after each other is somewhat of an unusual situation to start
> with.  And is the reason I had never noticed that G0 moves were blended in
> the old planner.  But neither planner blends a move between a G0 and G1
> move as far as I know.  Because of this most people never notice.  I am
> pretty sure G0 moves are exact stop positioning moves in all the other CNC
> controls I have worked with (Fanuc, and others).
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "sam sokolik" 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2017 11:22:10 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Version 2.7 positioning problem during cnc
>  operations
> >
> > The cheap and dirty way would be to add
> > add in the TRAJ sectio/n
> >
> > ARC_BLEND_ENABLE = 0
> >
> > /This puts the trajectoy planner into pre 2.7 mode (pre circular arc
> > blend - 1 segment look ahead)
> >
> > You obviously lose x segment look ahead.  During testing exact stop mode
> > happened between G0 and contouring moves - but that changed the behavior
> > of linuxcnc so I think it was taken out. (now it blends between all
> > segments types.)
> >
> > Currently the fix is adding G64Px.xxx at the beginning of all programs.
> >
> > sam
> >
> > //
> > On 3/29/2017 9:37 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> >> Gentlemen,
> >> This is connected to the G64 question I asked on the developers list
> >> yesterday.
> >>
> >> G64 P0 does not change the positioning problem on the machine.
> >>
> >> Problem description:
> >> desired machine motion
> >>position XY with Z above the material/work level
> >>move Z to material/work level
> >>face mill top of material
> >>
> >>  encountered machine motion
> >>position XY with Z above the material/work level
> >>  result as expected
> >>move Z to material/work level
> >>  result not as expected - as the tool approaches the final Z
> >> position
> >> the tool moves an
> amount
> >> toward the final XY position
> >> and cuts into the
> >> material/stock
> >> face mill top of material
> >>   result as expected
> >>
> >> The work around has been to add an intermediate point after the z move
> that
> >> will cause the rounding to fall short of the material/stock
> >> The BIG problem is the customer has many proven/certified programs
> making
> >> parts on this machine. The quality manual requires a full first article
> >> inspection procedure to be performed on the resultant machined part
> after
> >> ANY change in the process. This is not acceptable to the customer.
> >> Customer wants the machine to just perform like it did with the previous
> >> (old) linuxcnc version.
> >> Customer is asking for revision to old version if fix is not able to be
> >> accomplished rather quickly.
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> Stuart
> >>
> >
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[Emc-users] Spindle speed signal

2016-12-08 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Hi All,

Does anyone use a spindle encoder with only position output? In other
words, encoder position linked to  motion.spindle-revs, but no input to
motion.spindle-speed-in?

I ask because I'm working on a tweak to spindle synchronization, and I'd
like to use the spindle speed input as part of the position tracking loop.
However, this would require that pins have a valid signal for threading /
spindle position tracking. If the only-position case is common, then I
would make the use of spindle-speed-in controllable by an IN setting.

Thanks!
Rob
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Re: [Emc-users] max_velocity during execution - multiple axis

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:18 PM Chris Albertson 
wrote:

Just to clear up,  DH allows you to specify any set of translation and
rotation devices, one mounted on the other.   The normal XYZ mill is very
simple case, but as soon as you bolt on a rotary table, especially if the
axis of ration is not parallel to the XYZ axis is gets complex.

The best feature of DH is that is already list software that can compute
forward and inverse kinematics from a file of DH parameters, you don't need
to write that very dificult part.

In fact you can have high acceleration rates of the tool path even while
the motors are running at constant speed.  Computing a motor speed so as to
keep acceleration and velocity under a specified limit is non-trivial.  But
the problem is solved.  Google will return thousands of hits


Naturally, there are many such solutions. My point was that integrating
them into LinuxCNC will require a major overhaul. If we want something
workable quickly, a hack solution to the existing trajectory planner may be
enough for simple cases like a fixed rotary axis.

If our long-term goal is optimal motion planning for a general robot, then
it would be smart to use an existing motion planning library, rather than
to roll our own.
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Re: [Emc-users] max_velocity during execution - multiple axis

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM Danny Miller  wrote:

> I did some rotary stuff on Mach3 and was baffled by similar issues.
>
> Seems like it'd be CAM's job to manage the feedrate, and calculate for
> the work radius.  That would make sense if you were cutting a cylinder
> and the G-code move was "X moves 3 inches, A rotates 100 times, feed X
> at 1.5 inches/min"
>
> But if the cartesians aren't moving- which is common- the F value has no
> meaning at all if it's cartesian.  There is no way for G-code language
> to communicate "polar Feed =  200 deg/sec" and it's nonsense to combine
> polar and cartesian vectors into a single scalar for a feedrate.
>

The F word is overloaded. If there's no cartesian motion, then it treats
the number as degrees per min instead of in per min.

Seems like the logical answer is amending G-code Feedrate with syntax
> for an angular vector in addition to cartesian, but no CAM pkg would
> support it.


The "proper" way as I understand it is to use inverse time when doing both
linear and angular moves. It's perfectly sensible to say "move X inches and
A degress within T seconds".
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Re: [Emc-users] max_velocity during execution - multiple axis

In the most general case, you're correct that the tool tip motion is a
function of the machine geometry. Putting it more succinctly, the tool tip
position (world space) is a nonlinear function of the joint positions. In
the general case, a linear motion in world space is not necessarily linear
in joint space. This non-linearity has all kinds of consequences for motion
planning:

   - Joint space limits are not prismatic (i.e. constant limits for every
   joint). Therefore, you can't be sure that a linear move is within joint
   space limits just because the end points are.
   - Joint space velocity is not proportional to tool tip velocity, and in
   general will change as a function of position. Therefore the max velocity /
   acceleration is not constant within a motion segment.

The current TP / motion planning architecture is really designed for
linear, orthogonal kinematics. There's been discussion about the necessary
redesign before (see here
<https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/issues/396>).

So, what we can realistically do in the short term is chip away at the
problem:

   1. Get ABC blending working with a constant effective radius (i.e. some
   fixed conversion from degrees to inches)
   2. Make the effective radius specific to each motion segment, assuming
   each of the ABC axis have a fixed global orientation and origin.

I'm working on (1), and I have a plan for (2).

-Rob

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 1:47 PM Klemen Živkovič <klemen.zivko...@gmail.com>
wrote:

It seems that real motion and speeds are to be viewed from workpiece
coordinate system since one of the main requirements in CNC is to have
constant speed of tool over surface.
Also there is a need to somehow define generic way of calculating real
workpiece coordinates from dX,  dY, dZ and dA, dB, dC dU, dV, dW since
linuxcnc could not know,
what is machine geometry or tool movement dependency on different axis.

Since change A,B,C and U,V,W axes each separately or in combination result
in X,Y,Z movement
would it be possible to put in INI a math expression that would be kind of:

X(dA;dB;dC;dU,dV,dW) = dX + [name of radius A pin] * sin(dA*PI/180) + [name
of radius A pin] * cos(dA*PI/180) + ... (formulas of X dependency from
other axes) ...
Y(dA;dB;dC;dU,dV,dW) = 0
Z(dA;dB;dC;dU,dV,dW) = dZ + [name of radius A pin] * cos(dA*PI/180) + [name
of radius A pin] * sin(dA*PI/180) + ... (formulas of Z dependency from
other axes) ...

final movement would be then

Xnew = X_from_queue + X(dA;dB;dC;dU,dV,dW)
and similar for Y and Z axis.

In this way user could define dependencies of main cartesian axes XYZ from
angular ABC or linear UVW axis.

It seems that would require adding some symbolic computation library...
(check
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11715162/symbolic-computation-library-in-pure-c
).

I hope I am not too much off topic and ideas are not too extreme to
implement.
Also if this is to be part of kinematics module of lcnc please somebody
correct me or direct me how this is to be aproached...

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Robert Ellenberg <rwe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As of now, circular arc blending doesn't work with the ABC axes (which is
> why it's running so slowly for you with short segments), but I'm working
on
> a fix. I had an extensive discussion with Andy Pugh a while back, which
led
> to some great ideas on how to solve this problem. There are two big
reasons
> it doesn't work now:
>
> 1) ABC units are degrees, whereas linear axes (XYZUVW) are in distance. A
> spherical arc doesn't make physical sense between axes of different units.
>
> 2) "Velocity" as defined by the TP is actually velocity in either XYZ,
ABC,
> or UVW axes, depending on the context, but a spherical arc in general
would
> involve change in all 9 axes, so the arc length (and it's derivatives, TP
> velocity and acceleration) needs to be expressed in terms of all axes.
>
> What I'm working on now is to treat ABC axis motion as an equivalent tool
> tip motion in distance units. For example, if the tool is 10 inches above
> the physical A axis, then the A axis has an effective radius of 10 inches.
> Therefore it's easy to convert the angular motion to an equivalent tool
top
> motion. Ex: a 90 deg rotation would be similar to a linear move of pi / 2
*
> 10 ~= 15.71 in.
>
> The good news is, if we assume some constant effective radius for all ABC
> axes, I think it's possible to implement with the same basic structures as
> the ones in my my experimental UVW axes blending branch
> <https://github.com/robEllenberg/linuxcnc-mirror/
> tree/feature/uvw-blending-dev>
> .
>
> The hard part is making the effective radius change with tool tip
position.
> That's my long-term goal with this fix, but it may still be a big
> improvement to assume a constant effective radius.
>
> Best,
> Rob
>
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016

Re: [Emc-users] max_velocity during execution - multiple axis

As of now, circular arc blending doesn't work with the ABC axes (which is
why it's running so slowly for you with short segments), but I'm working on
a fix. I had an extensive discussion with Andy Pugh a while back, which led
to some great ideas on how to solve this problem. There are two big reasons
it doesn't work now:

1) ABC units are degrees, whereas linear axes (XYZUVW) are in distance. A
spherical arc doesn't make physical sense between axes of different units.

2) "Velocity" as defined by the TP is actually velocity in either XYZ, ABC,
or UVW axes, depending on the context, but a spherical arc in general would
involve change in all 9 axes, so the arc length (and it's derivatives, TP
velocity and acceleration) needs to be expressed in terms of all axes.

What I'm working on now is to treat ABC axis motion as an equivalent tool
tip motion in distance units. For example, if the tool is 10 inches above
the physical A axis, then the A axis has an effective radius of 10 inches.
Therefore it's easy to convert the angular motion to an equivalent tool top
motion. Ex: a 90 deg rotation would be similar to a linear move of pi / 2 *
10 ~= 15.71 in.

The good news is, if we assume some constant effective radius for all ABC
axes, I think it's possible to implement with the same basic structures as
the ones in my my experimental UVW axes blending branch

.

The hard part is making the effective radius change with tool tip position.
That's my long-term goal with this fix, but it may still be a big
improvement to assume a constant effective radius.

Best,
Rob

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 10:51 AM Tomaz T.  wrote:

So for now there is no solution to speed this up till TP will be modified
in the way that it will take and "optimize" also moves with rotary axis ...?


PS. yes I'm from Slovenia.



From: klemenzivko...@gmail.com  on behalf of
Klemen Zivkovic 
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 2:10 PM
To: tomaz_...@hotmail.com
Subject: [Emc-users] max_velocity during execution - multiple axis

Hello,


I think your problem is that linuxcnc have x,y,z trajectory planning. As
soon as you add rotary axis to have combined move you end up with single
lookahead in tp, so this limits velocity.
Check this out:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/20-g-code/29662-coordinated-motion-involving-rotary-axis


According to your name - I need to ask you are you native slovenian speaker?


regards
KLemen
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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

2016-10-18 Thread Robert Ellenberg

The discrepancy is likely because the behavior changed in 2.7. In 2.6 and
older, both G61 modes were identical. In 2.7, we added the exact path vs
exact stop distinction (since the new TP could do it).

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016, 12:15 PM Nicklas Karlsson <
nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There seems to be small disreptancy in manual for at least 2.6:
>   G61 - exact path mode. G61 visits the programmed point exactly, even
> though that means temporarily coming to a complete stop.
>   G61.1 - exact stop mode. Same as G61
>
> G61 do not need to stop although it might happen because otherwise it fail
> to reach exact point. G61.1 come to a complete halt at point.
>
> I say to change the manual would make sense.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
> "Todd  Zuercher"  wrote:
>
> > Yes, a quick test seems to show that for co-linear points G61 doesn't
> stop but G61.1 does.  Maybe the docs should be adjusted to reflect that.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "John Thornton" 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:56:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> >
> > Looks like G61.1 stops at every end point and G61 only visits each end
> > point but may stop if needed. Could also be incorrect descriptions of
> > them...
> >
> > JT
> >
> > On 10/18/2016 9:17 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > Stupid question, why do we even have a G61.1 mode?  Is it in anyway
> different from plain G61?
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "John Thornton" 
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> > >
> > > That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> > >
> > > If you set G64 P  you get something else
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> > >
> > > If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > > On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> > >> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
> > >> all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
> > >> rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
> > >> costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
> > >> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
> > >>
> > >> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
> > >> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
> > >>
> > >> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
> > >>
> > >>
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>
>
>

Re: [Emc-users] Emc-users Digest, Vol 118, Issue 61

2016-02-16 Thread Robert von Knobloch

On 16/02/16 14:02, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
>> Pass over the switch might be possible?
> No. The datasheets I've read all say the same that you must activate the
> plunger straigt on. Any angle will give you bad performance. Any
> sideways stress on the plunger can kill the plunger assembly.
>
> The only alternative is to use a level-based micro-switch. That,
> however, will probably make it less accurate. Especially when you move
> over it side-ways. The angle of attack is too small with respect to the
> travel distance.
>
> -- Greetings Bertho
Bertho,

FWIW I made mine by using small, round bar magnets (ca. 6 x 15 mm) and 
reed switch capsules. I milled out small (25mm) pieces of 10 x 10mm 
aluminium and epoxied the switches and magnets each in one. These, I 
glued to the machine with cyanoacrylate such they slide past each 
another horizontally, with a small gap (no contact at all) . I haven't 
measured the repeatability but it seems pretty good and they are cheap 
and sealed against junk getting in.

Cheers,
Bob

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[Emc-users] Rigid Tapping in U,V,W

2016-02-13 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

hi

what would it take to add or finish adding U V W rigid tapping ? as i 
see when you command G33.1 with a W it is accepted but goes to postion 
and just does the next line of code with out doing the tapping move.

so it looks like someone might have started adding rigid tapping in U V W?
i use all drill cycles etc in the W axis but id love to use rigid 
tapping in W also.

i am no coder but id take alook at finishing the job if someone pointed 
us in the right directions, is it just a case of finishing off the 
interp cycles ??

or if there someone much more cleaver than me who would take on 
finishing it off?

thanks, Rob

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Re: [Emc-users] Rigid Tapping in U,V,W

2016-02-13 Thread robert - Innovative-RC

yes you can tap in X Y Z no problem,

if you try it out in the 9axis sim you can see U V W does not follow 
spindle just goes to position in the G code, and then proceeeds to the 
next line of code with no error etc
even if you switch planes or (G18 or G17.1)

my config is on a 3 axis lathe X Z top turret , W bottom turret

soon i have a 5 axis lathe todo
X Z top turret, U W bottom Turret
C axis on spindle, and power tooling on top turret.



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Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z

2016-01-15 Thread Robert Ellenberg

I'd be happy to merge it into either if there's demand. My recent batch of
changes restored the original behavior of the velocity field in EMC status,
so I don't think there are any other obstacles. One minor concern is that
the extra math slightly increases the CPU time for the servo loop, but I
doubt it will matter on reasonably modern hardware.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 2:25 PM Todd Zuercher <zuerc...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Rob,
>
> We've been running this for a little while now and it seems to be working
> well for us.  Is there any plans to move it to the mainstream (Master or
> 2.7)?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Robert Ellenberg" <rwe...@gmail.com>
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 12:31:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
>
> That's consistent with the changes I made, that "velocity"  from the TP's
> perspective is now along the 6D path (instead of just XYZ).
>
> Maybe we could add fields / Hal pins for different interpretations? It
> wouldn't be too hard to calculate XYZ-only velocity, and report it on a
> separate pin. Or, for backwards compatibility, I could tweak the status
> update code so that motion only reports xyz velocity, even though
> internally it uses xyzuvw.
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015, 12:14 PM Todd Zuercher <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ok I got to test it again today some, and here is what I've found so far.
> > It looks like the g-code with Z and W are running the same as the only Z
> > g-code.  The same file runs for the same amount of time both ways.
> >
> > However I have noticed that it looks like the velocity display on the
> DRO,
> > is adding the velocity of the W axis to the Z, so that when milling at
> F80,
> > the DRO will show that the velocity was more than 80.  I'm not quite sure
> > how this could be corrected or if it should be.  There are configurations
> > where you may want the W and Z velocities to be additive (such as a knee
> > mill) but that situation might be better served by configuring it more
> like
> > 2 joints serving the Z axis.  I don't think it would be right to just
> > completely ignore the W velocity either, because there are situations
> where
> > the machine may be using only XYW for carving instead of XYZ or XYZW.
> > Maybe some way of only using the most significant velocity of the 2 (Z
> and
> > W) in the velocity calculation, sounds like a recipe for making something
> > simple (at least on the surface) into something very complicated.
> >
> > Again, it is only what is being shown for the velocity on the DRO that I
> > think is wrong, the actual movement of the the machine looks right, and
> the
> > run times for the files seem to confirm that.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Robert Ellenberg" <rwe...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >
> > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 10:56:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
> >
> > I just tweaked naive cam detection to handle uvw axes too. Can you guys
> > give it a spin and see if it makes up the difference?
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 4:09 PM sam sokolik <sa...@empirescreen.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > the thing that is missing with uvy blends it the nieve cam detector
> > > (combining of short line segments..)  so it will run just a bit slower.
> > >
> > > sam
> > >
> > > On 11/25/2015 12:17 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > > Just for perspective the current version of 2.7 using XYZW runs the
> > file
> > > below in 10min. 44sec.
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Todd Zuercher" <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
> > > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:17:03 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
> > > >
> > > > Seems to be working great.  I haven't found a problem XYZ and XYZW
> code
> > > seem to run mostly the same now, but not exactly.  The first file I
> > tested
> > > ran in 7min. 10 sec. using only XYZ code (with the W slaved to Z) and
> the
> > > same file using XYZW code, ran in 7min. 28sec.
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Robert Ellenberg" <rw

Re: [Emc-users] seasons greetings

2015-12-25 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Merry Christmas all!

https://youtu.be/qEvQLxwp3-A

On Fri, Dec 25, 2015, 9:09 AM Reggie Crane  wrote:

> Merry Christmas!
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015, 10:34 PM Jim Craig 
> wrote:
>
> > Merry Christmas Gene and everyone else.On Dec 24, 2015 10:17 PM, Gene
> > Heskett  wrote:
> > >
> > > Greetings all;
> > >
> > > Its that time of the year again, and there not a PC bone in my body, so
> > >
> > > Merry Christmas everyone!
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > Genes Web page 
> > >
> > >
> >
> --
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> --
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z

2015-12-01 Thread Robert Ellenberg

That's consistent with the changes I made, that "velocity"  from the TP's
perspective is now along the 6D path (instead of just XYZ).

Maybe we could add fields / Hal pins for different interpretations? It
wouldn't be too hard to calculate XYZ-only velocity, and report it on a
separate pin. Or, for backwards compatibility, I could tweak the status
update code so that motion only reports xyz velocity, even though
internally it uses xyzuvw.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015, 12:14 PM Todd Zuercher <zuerc...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Ok I got to test it again today some, and here is what I've found so far.
> It looks like the g-code with Z and W are running the same as the only Z
> g-code.  The same file runs for the same amount of time both ways.
>
> However I have noticed that it looks like the velocity display on the DRO,
> is adding the velocity of the W axis to the Z, so that when milling at F80,
> the DRO will show that the velocity was more than 80.  I'm not quite sure
> how this could be corrected or if it should be.  There are configurations
> where you may want the W and Z velocities to be additive (such as a knee
> mill) but that situation might be better served by configuring it more like
> 2 joints serving the Z axis.  I don't think it would be right to just
> completely ignore the W velocity either, because there are situations where
> the machine may be using only XYW for carving instead of XYZ or XYZW.
> Maybe some way of only using the most significant velocity of the 2 (Z and
> W) in the velocity calculation, sounds like a recipe for making something
> simple (at least on the surface) into something very complicated.
>
> Again, it is only what is being shown for the velocity on the DRO that I
> think is wrong, the actual movement of the the machine looks right, and the
> run times for the files seem to confirm that.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Robert Ellenberg" <rwe...@gmail.com>
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 10:56:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
>
> I just tweaked naive cam detection to handle uvw axes too. Can you guys
> give it a spin and see if it makes up the difference?
>
> -Rob
>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 4:09 PM sam sokolik <sa...@empirescreen.com> wrote:
>
> > the thing that is missing with uvy blends it the nieve cam detector
> > (combining of short line segments..)  so it will run just a bit slower.
> >
> > sam
> >
> > On 11/25/2015 12:17 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > Just for perspective the current version of 2.7 using XYZW runs the
> file
> > below in 10min. 44sec.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Todd Zuercher" <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:17:03 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
> > >
> > > Seems to be working great.  I haven't found a problem XYZ and XYZW code
> > seem to run mostly the same now, but not exactly.  The first file I
> tested
> > ran in 7min. 10 sec. using only XYZ code (with the W slaved to Z) and the
> > same file using XYZW code, ran in 7min. 28sec.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Robert Ellenberg" <rwe...@gmail.com>
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 11:39:38 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
> > >
> > > Ok, i just pushed a fix for that build error, and now it seems to
> compile
> > > and run on my RTAI VM.  Also, I pushed the branch to the main linuxcnc
> > > repository for the buildbot to chew on.
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Robert Ellenberg <rwe...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Todd,
> > >>
> > >> I'll troubleshoot the build tonight, it looks like a symbol is missing
> > in
> > >> the RT build that's available in the sim build.
> > >>
> > >> Rob
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 4:09 PM Todd Zuercher <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I think I forgot to do the sudo make setuid.
> > >>> did that now, and this is what it spits out.
> > >>>
> > >>> LINUXCNC - 2.7.2
> > >>> M

Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z

2015-11-27 Thread Robert Ellenberg

I just tweaked naive cam detection to handle uvw axes too. Can you guys
give it a spin and see if it makes up the difference?

-Rob

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 4:09 PM sam sokolik <sa...@empirescreen.com> wrote:

> the thing that is missing with uvy blends it the nieve cam detector
> (combining of short line segments..)  so it will run just a bit slower.
>
> sam
>
> On 11/25/2015 12:17 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Just for perspective the current version of 2.7 using XYZW runs the file
> below in 10min. 44sec.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Todd Zuercher" <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:17:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
> >
> > Seems to be working great.  I haven't found a problem XYZ and XYZW code
> seem to run mostly the same now, but not exactly.  The first file I tested
> ran in 7min. 10 sec. using only XYZ code (with the W slaved to Z) and the
> same file using XYZW code, ran in 7min. 28sec.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Robert Ellenberg" <rwe...@gmail.com>
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 11:39:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z
> >
> > Ok, i just pushed a fix for that build error, and now it seems to compile
> > and run on my RTAI VM.  Also, I pushed the branch to the main linuxcnc
> > repository for the buildbot to chew on.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Robert Ellenberg <rwe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Todd,
> >>
> >> I'll troubleshoot the build tonight, it looks like a symbol is missing
> in
> >> the RT build that's available in the sim build.
> >>
> >> Rob
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 4:09 PM Todd Zuercher <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think I forgot to do the sudo make setuid.
> >>> did that now, and this is what it spits out.
> >>>
> >>> LINUXCNC - 2.7.2
> >>> Machine configuration directory is
> >>> '/home/digital4/linuxcnc/configs/Digital_4_ZZ'
> >>> Machine configuration file is 'Digital_4w.ini'
> >>> Starting LinuxCNC...
> >>> insmod: can't read '/home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib/rtapi.ko': No
> such
> >>> file or directory
> >>> Realtime system did not load
> >>> Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
> >>> Running HAL shutdown script
> >>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper: Invalid usage
> >>> with args: remove hal_lib
> >>>
> >>> Usage: /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper insert
> >>> /path/to/module.ext [param1=value1 ...]
> >>>
> >>> where module is one of:
> >>> rtai_math
> >>> rtai_sem
> >>> rtai_shm
> >>> rtai_fifos
> >>> rtai_up
> >>> rtai_lxrt
> >>> rtai_hal
> >>> rtai_sched
> >>> rtai_smi
> >>> rtai
> >>> rt_mem_mgr
> >>> adeos
> >>>
> >>> the path starts with one of:
> >>> /lib/modules
> >>> /usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai
> >>>
> >>> and the extension is one of:
> >>> .ko
> >>>
> >>> or the module is in the directory /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib
> >>>
> >>> OR
> >>>
> >>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper remove module
> >>>
> >>> where module is one of the modules listed above.
> >>>
> >>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper: Invalid usage
> >>> with args: remove rtapi
> >>>
> >>> Usage: /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper insert
> >>> /path/to/module.ext [param1=value1 ...]
> >>>
> >>> where module is one of:
> >>> rtai_math
> >>> rtai_sem
> >>> rtai_shm
> >>> rtai_fifos
> >>> rtai_up
> >>> rtai_lxrt
> >>> rtai_hal
> >>> rtai_sched
> >>> rtai_smi
> >>>

Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z

2015-11-24 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Todd,

I'll troubleshoot the build tonight, it looks like a symbol is missing in
the RT build that's available in the sim build.

Rob

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 4:09 PM Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> I think I forgot to do the sudo make setuid.
> did that now, and this is what it spits out.
>
> LINUXCNC - 2.7.2
> Machine configuration directory is
> '/home/digital4/linuxcnc/configs/Digital_4_ZZ'
> Machine configuration file is 'Digital_4w.ini'
> Starting LinuxCNC...
> insmod: can't read '/home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib/rtapi.ko': No such
> file or directory
> Realtime system did not load
> Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
> Running HAL shutdown script
> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper: Invalid usage with
> args: remove hal_lib
>
> Usage: /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper insert
> /path/to/module.ext [param1=value1 ...]
>
> where module is one of:
> rtai_math
> rtai_sem
> rtai_shm
> rtai_fifos
> rtai_up
> rtai_lxrt
> rtai_hal
> rtai_sched
> rtai_smi
> rtai
> rt_mem_mgr
> adeos
>
> the path starts with one of:
> /lib/modules
> /usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai
>
> and the extension is one of:
> .ko
>
> or the module is in the directory /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib
>
> OR
>
> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper remove module
>
> where module is one of the modules listed above.
>
> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper: Invalid usage with
> args: remove rtapi
>
> Usage: /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper insert
> /path/to/module.ext [param1=value1 ...]
>
> where module is one of:
> rtai_math
> rtai_sem
> rtai_shm
> rtai_fifos
> rtai_up
> rtai_lxrt
> rtai_hal
> rtai_sched
> rtai_smi
> rtai
> rt_mem_mgr
> adeos
>
> the path starts with one of:
> /lib/modules
> /usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai
>
> and the extension is one of:
> .ko
>
> or the module is in the directory /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib
>
> OR
>
> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper remove module
>
> where module is one of the modules listed above.
>
> LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more information in the
> log:
> /home/digital4/linuxcnc_debug.txt
> and
> /home/digital4/linuxcnc_print.txt
> as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in the terminal
>
>
> --
> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] calling Todd Z

2015-11-24 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Ok, i just pushed a fix for that build error, and now it seems to compile
and run on my RTAI VM.  Also, I pushed the branch to the main linuxcnc
repository for the buildbot to chew on.

-Rob

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Robert Ellenberg <rwe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Todd,
>
> I'll troubleshoot the build tonight, it looks like a symbol is missing in
> the RT build that's available in the sim build.
>
> Rob
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 4:09 PM Todd Zuercher <zuerc...@embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think I forgot to do the sudo make setuid.
>> did that now, and this is what it spits out.
>>
>> LINUXCNC - 2.7.2
>> Machine configuration directory is
>> '/home/digital4/linuxcnc/configs/Digital_4_ZZ'
>> Machine configuration file is 'Digital_4w.ini'
>> Starting LinuxCNC...
>> insmod: can't read '/home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib/rtapi.ko': No such
>> file or directory
>> Realtime system did not load
>> Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
>> Running HAL shutdown script
>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper: Invalid usage
>> with args: remove hal_lib
>>
>> Usage: /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper insert
>> /path/to/module.ext [param1=value1 ...]
>>
>> where module is one of:
>> rtai_math
>> rtai_sem
>> rtai_shm
>> rtai_fifos
>> rtai_up
>> rtai_lxrt
>> rtai_hal
>> rtai_sched
>> rtai_smi
>> rtai
>> rt_mem_mgr
>> adeos
>>
>> the path starts with one of:
>> /lib/modules
>> /usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai
>>
>> and the extension is one of:
>> .ko
>>
>> or the module is in the directory /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib
>>
>> OR
>>
>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper remove module
>>
>> where module is one of the modules listed above.
>>
>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper: Invalid usage
>> with args: remove rtapi
>>
>> Usage: /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper insert
>> /path/to/module.ext [param1=value1 ...]
>>
>> where module is one of:
>> rtai_math
>> rtai_sem
>> rtai_shm
>> rtai_fifos
>> rtai_up
>> rtai_lxrt
>> rtai_hal
>> rtai_sched
>> rtai_smi
>> rtai
>> rt_mem_mgr
>> adeos
>>
>> the path starts with one of:
>> /lib/modules
>> /usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai
>>
>> and the extension is one of:
>> .ko
>>
>> or the module is in the directory /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/rtlib
>>
>> OR
>>
>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc-uvw/bin/linuxcnc_module_helper remove module
>>
>> where module is one of the modules listed above.
>>
>> LinuxCNC terminated with an error.  You can find more information in the
>> log:
>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc_debug.txt
>> and
>> /home/digital4/linuxcnc_print.txt
>> as well as in the output of the shell command 'dmesg' and in the terminal
>>
>>
>> --
>> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
>> OSs.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551=/4140
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Re: [Emc-users] Turning digital outputs on G-code move without slowing down

2015-11-12 Thread Robert Ellenberg

It just means that for specific moves that involve ABC axes, the planner
will fall back to parabolic blends (i.e. 2.6-style blending). This means
that continuous contouring using the A axis will be slower than the
equivalent 3-axis path, if the program has a lot of short segments. In your
case, the only effect would be a slowdown at the "indexing" moves. The rest
of the XYZ-only moves will run normally.

Rob

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015, 11:31 AM Viesturs Lācis <viesturs.la...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 2015-11-11 14:51 GMT+02:00 Robert Ellenberg <rwe...@gmail.com>:
> > Currently the TP does not support arc blends between rotary axis moves
>
> Rob, are you saying that this code would not be supported?
>
> G01X1.279Z14.031
> X1.544Z13.921
> X1.720Z13.834
> X1.897Z13.735
> X2.073Z13.622
> X2.250Z13.496
> X2.426Z13.352
> X2.470Z13.313
> X2.492Z13.298
> X2.603Z13.292
> X2.691Z13.267
> X2.779Z13.218
> X2.823Z13.180
> X2.867Z13.129
> X2.911Z13.051
> X2.933Z12.983
> X2.944Z12.906
> X2.980Z12.502
> X3.044Z12.495
> X4.367
> A-0.079
> X3.044
> X2.980Z12.502
> X2.939Z12.954
> X2.933Z12.983
> X2.911Z13.051
> X2.867Z13.129
> X2.823Z13.180
> X2.779Z13.218
> X2.691Z13.267
> X2.603Z13.292
>
> It has linear moves in XZ plane with small indexing moves on A
> inbetween. How does the new TP handle such code?
>
> Viesturs
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Turning digital outputs on G-code move without slowing down

2015-11-11 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Hi Marius,

The problem is not the digital IO, but the A axis. Currently the TP does
not support arc blends between rotary axis moves, so it falls back to
parabolic blends (which can be slower for short segments).

Rob

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015, 7:31 AM Marius Alksnys 
wrote:

> I want to control two digital outputs while in motion without slow-down.
> Now I use G1 with A axis. Neither Arc Blend TP settings in ini nor M62,
> 63, 64, 65 seems to help - I get a slowdown at the switching point.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

2015-10-21 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Thanks Jeff, I loaded it up in a 4-axis sim config. I think my initial idea
is wrong about ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ, since all of the blending happens
between 4 axes (parabolic blends only).

Just for fun, here's both clips together:

http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJKNieuI6Hmo=0=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DS0re79zEX5A=11=rellenberg

It seems like it's running faster in your 2.7 video. Has the configuration
/ scale changed between those videos? It might sound better if it runs at
the same speed. For reference, on my test config, the program takes about
36 seconds on both 2.6 and 2.7.

Rob

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:39 PM, Jeff Epler <jep...@unpythonic.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 11:30:14PM +0000, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> > would you mind sharing the g-code so I can
> > take a look at the slow spots?
>
> A version of this program is in the sample nc_files as "daisy.ngc".
>
> It needs to be modified to run on a 3-axis machine, and only "sounds
> good" on a high-accel stepper machine with properly configured scales in
> the gcode.
>
> (set XYZA axis scales)
> O100 call [6400] [6400] [8000] [80]
>
> Jeff
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Question about G2/G3 where Z and P are used

Hi Gene,

That's correct. The P word controls how many turns, independent of the z
height.

Rob


On Mon, Oct 19, 2015, 10:29 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

Greetings all;

Can I assume that when a Z# and a P# are used in a G2 or G3 move, that
the Z descent per full turn is:

Z / P

So that depth Z is accomplished in P full circles?

The docs

only sort of say that, as I read them.

I'll be boring a hole all the way through the center of each finger, but
the last time, a 1/8" tool simply plunged in with a couple flute
cleaning retractions, did not bore a big enough hole for a #8 screws
clearance and I had to enlarge it by hand, and I'd like to bore a hole
that will just clear the tips of the screws threads by doing a circular
descent.  At a low enough rate of descent per turn that I don't have to
dig up the jig very much just to make sure its fully bored to diameter
at the bottom face of the board.

Thanks all;

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

Tom, have you tried playing with the ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ parameter in your
ini file? Increasing it from the default value of 20Hz up to 100Hz or even
1000Hz will make the trajectory planner more aggressive on short segments,
at the expense of more acceleration ripple for programs with lots of short
lines. If that doesn't fix it, would you mind sharing the g-code so I can
take a look at the slow spots?

Thanks,
Rob

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:48 PM Jerry Scharf  wrote:

> I'm hearing you. :)
>
> Sounds like the new planner has a lower acceleration rates so you don't get
> the good attack on pitch that sounds more musical. It's like using a slow
> slide whistle or trombone.
>
> Maybe increasing the acceleration rates might fix this critical issue.
>
> jerry
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Tom Easterday  wrote:
>
> > I’m just sayin’...
> >
> > New:
> > https://youtu.be/JKNieuI6Hmo
> >
> > Old:
> > https://youtu.be/S0re79zEX5A
> >
> > :-)
> > -Tom
> >
> > ps: Here is You Are My Sunshine.  I don’t have it playing on the 2.6 but
> > definitely sounded better before:  https://youtu.be/e1wu2cMpmMY <
> > https://www.youtube.com/upload>
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Path blending

Depending on your machine's acceleration, and the feed you requested, that
could be correct default behavior. The default blend tolerance is
unlimited. Given the speed limitations the TP used to have, it may not have
been able to go fast enough to need a big blend like that, so you might not
have seen it before. Does it still happen at lower feeds?

Another possible cause is a large maximum feed override, which causes the
TP to take larger blends. For example, a maximum feed override of 200%
means that at any time, the TP is prepared to go 2x your requested feed,
and doing so safely means a larger corner radius, even if your requested
feed isn't that fast.

In general, I would always recommend using an explicit tolerance for
blending.

Can you share a code snippet that leads to this behavior (also a config
file so I can see your max acceleration / velocity)?

Rob

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015, 7:33 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I was just forced to add a G64 P0.001 to my code for making the screw
> shank, a circular cut just deep enough to absorb the screw head, topped
> by a square cutout with 1/16" radius corners as left by a 1/8" mill run
> in a square pattern.  Without it, that square pocket was turned into a 1
> corner pointed circle!
>
> That sure seems like way too aggressive path blending to me.  I also
> noted that turning the alpha-blend checkbox on and off, had zero effect
> on the cut result. The initial white backplot trace was perfect, but not
> the wooden result when the code was executed, it was hugely, completely
> unusably bad.
>
> This is 2.7.0, updated Saturday IIRC.
>
> Is that the expected result?
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Path blending