Re: Braindora
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:47 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Quote - Environment Problem an amusing story about a demon giving a man an advance glimpse of Hell, was collected in Space 1, an anthology edited by Richard Davis. Wireheading is of course a term taken from Larry Niven's known space stories, Gil Hamilton and the ARM and so on. Thanks Liz! On 21 October 2013 22:39, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:54 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: This is explored in (amongst other places) the final chapter of A history of the world in 10 1/2 chapters. (The converse is explored in a short story by Michael Moorcock about someone who goes to Hell and finds it quite pleasant after a while.) Liz, thanks for the sci-fi references. I love reading such things. Any idea on where the Michael Moorcock story was published? When I was a kid and had to attend catholic Sunday school, I was terrified of heaven -- it sounded boring and oppressive. Also Sunday school prevented me from watching Battlestar Galactica (the original series). I suspect this was the seed of my deep resentment towards organized religion. Best, Telmo. This is also discussed in literature on Utopias generally (probably going back to someone like Plato) - the problem with wireheading is that it omits some of the supposedly necessary features of utopian existence e.g. breadth and vividness. So although one might be unable to escape it if placed in this situation, that doesn't mean one would choose it (since when *not* perpetually blissed out, one can see its inadequacies). On 21 October 2013 07:43, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:53:41 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: Another way of approaching human emulation. Step 1: Manufacture an inexpensive biofeedback monitor that you plug into your internet enabled device. Step 2: Braindora reads up your personal data and compares it against a huge database of other people’s data, looking for matches. Step 3. Meanwhile, Braindora keeps monitoring what you are looking at online while it tracks your brain data, comparing your history of what you find and how it makes you feel. Matches that correlate to mood improvement, on both a short term and long term basis are flagged. Step 4: Braindora offers to take over your web browsing, steering your computer/TV/Ipod/game system automatically to sources which are most statistically likely to be successful in improving the indicators in ‘people who probably feel like you do’. Step 5: Customers, who are now virtually incapable of being bored, can go to the next level and browse social networks for bio-compatible matches in the same way. Step 6: Gradually all lifestyle decisions can be ported to the system, ensuring that that everything that you eat, buy, do, or experience is optimized at least a little better than you could do on your own. Step 7: The entire process will be recorded and fed back into the system so that it can be compressed into an algorithm which can be pushed back to the customer’s transcranial magnetic stimulation device. As a result, everyone will feel like they have a great and constantly improving life, even as they degenerate into pulpy masses of human squash. If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I might choose it personally, but that is only because my personhood is defined by its deprivations. If I were the universe, an ontology of masturbation is a dead end. I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? I don't think that is actually possible. The intellect can conceive of monotonous bliss, but that does not mean that is the way that bliss could work. A bliss that you cannot escape from is ultimately a prison. Our understanding of sensation points to relation of contrasts, not to mechanical absolutes. Feelings are living responses to meaningful conditions. We quickly adapt to euphoria, build a tolerance, become bored. There may not be any such thing as a bliss which cannot fade into misery eventually. If there were, I think it would constitute a kind of universal halting, just as strong addiction can suspend normal social functions. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
Re: Braindora
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:08 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure. Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint. People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate. Freud saw this as the most basis drive. Sure, the biological program would prevent us from choosing heaven itself. But it's interesting to become aware that this is the case. No rational objections against bliss can be made. Bliss is, by definition, the most desirable state of consciousness. It's the state of consciousness were one doesn't long for any other state. And yet, most of us would pass. Best, Telmo. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:54 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: This is explored in (amongst other places) the final chapter of A history of the world in 10 1/2 chapters. (The converse is explored in a short story by Michael Moorcock about someone who goes to Hell and finds it quite pleasant after a while.) Liz, thanks for the sci-fi references. I love reading such things. Any idea on where the Michael Moorcock story was published? When I was a kid and had to attend catholic Sunday school, I was terrified of heaven -- it sounded boring and oppressive. Also Sunday school prevented me from watching Battlestar Galactica (the original series). I suspect this was the seed of my deep resentment towards organized religion. Best, Telmo. This is also discussed in literature on Utopias generally (probably going back to someone like Plato) - the problem with wireheading is that it omits some of the supposedly necessary features of utopian existence e.g. breadth and vividness. So although one might be unable to escape it if placed in this situation, that doesn't mean one would choose it (since when *not* perpetually blissed out, one can see its inadequacies). On 21 October 2013 07:43, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:53:41 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: Another way of approaching human emulation. Step 1: Manufacture an inexpensive biofeedback monitor that you plug into your internet enabled device. Step 2: Braindora reads up your personal data and compares it against a huge database of other people’s data, looking for matches. Step 3. Meanwhile, Braindora keeps monitoring what you are looking at online while it tracks your brain data, comparing your history of what you find and how it makes you feel. Matches that correlate to mood improvement, on both a short term and long term basis are flagged. Step 4: Braindora offers to take over your web browsing, steering your computer/TV/Ipod/game system automatically to sources which are most statistically likely to be successful in improving the indicators in ‘people who probably feel like you do’. Step 5: Customers, who are now virtually incapable of being bored, can go to the next level and browse social networks for bio-compatible matches in the same way. Step 6: Gradually all lifestyle decisions can be ported to the system, ensuring that that everything that you eat, buy, do, or experience is optimized at least a little better than you could do on your own. Step 7: The entire process will be recorded and fed back into the system so that it can be compressed into an algorithm which can be pushed back to the customer’s transcranial magnetic stimulation device. As a result, everyone will feel like they have a great and constantly improving life, even as they degenerate into pulpy masses of human squash. If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I might choose it personally, but that is only because my personhood is defined by its deprivations. If I were the universe, an ontology of masturbation is a dead end. I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? I don't think that is actually possible. The intellect can conceive of monotonous bliss, but that does not mean that is the way that bliss could work. A bliss that you cannot escape from is ultimately a prison. Our understanding of sensation points to relation of contrasts, not to mechanical absolutes. Feelings are living responses to meaningful conditions. We quickly adapt to euphoria, build a tolerance, become bored. There may not be any such thing as a bliss which cannot fade into misery eventually. If there were, I think it would constitute a kind of universal halting, just as strong addiction can suspend normal social functions. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options,
Re: Braindora
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:08:14 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure.� Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint.� People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate.� Freud saw this as the most basis drive. I guess the conceit would be that this pleasure would simulate experiences of accomplishment, creativity, etc. Interestingly enough, part of the effect of cannabis seems to include an exaggeration of accomplishment which relates to alleviating boredom. Interesting. I heard that said about cocaine. Some guy even argues that cocaine-fuelled self-confidence was the main cause of the current economic crisis. Cannabis is more frequently associated with a disinterest in accomplishment itself -- the ego traps becoming obvious and looking silly. People tell me that it's really hard to not notice bad acting when under the influence of THC. Fakeness overall becomes very obvious. Superficial niceties unbearable. Maybe this is why it's illegal? Imagine listening to a political speech after smoking a joint... The childlike fascination with mundane details and the heightening of minor errands to seem like Ulysses-like odysseys has both profound and silly implications. Who is to say, after all, that driving to the store to get some Doritos isn't an odyssey? There does seem to be a self-limiting feature of cannabis though, as eventually one's own sloth can become the most obvious wonder to meditate on. This I attribute to the transparency of sense to the universe at large. Eventually illusions and simulations are revealed. Not because of any Pollyanna law of truth in the universe, but because representations are not whole. Experiences which are not grounded in the absolute are facades which inevitably reveal their seams under some condition of 'light' over time. Nice, that's an interesting way to put it. Telmo. Craig Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
On Monday, October 21, 2013 5:52:34 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:08:14 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure.� Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint.� People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate.� Freud saw this as the most basis drive. I guess the conceit would be that this pleasure would simulate experiences of accomplishment, creativity, etc. Interestingly enough, part of the effect of cannabis seems to include an exaggeration of accomplishment which relates to alleviating boredom. Interesting. I heard that said about cocaine. Some guy even argues that cocaine-fuelled self-confidence was the main cause of the current economic crisis. Some blamed the dot com bubble on Starbucks. I would not be too surprised if that is at least partially true. Cannabis is more frequently associated with a disinterest in accomplishment itself -- the ego traps becoming obvious and looking silly. People tell me that it's really hard to not notice bad acting when under the influence of THC. Fakeness overall becomes very obvious. Superficial niceties unbearable. Maybe this is why it's illegal? Imagine listening to a political speech after smoking a joint... There is little question that cannabis and psychedelics are suppressed because they are considered a threat to the status quo. Certainly the excuse that there are significant safety issues is fabricated or hysterical. The childlike fascination with mundane details and the heightening of minor errands to seem like Ulysses-like odysseys has both profound and silly implications. Who is to say, after all, that driving to the store to get some Doritos isn't an odyssey? There does seem to be a self-limiting feature of cannabis though, as eventually one's own sloth can become the most obvious wonder to meditate on. This I attribute to the transparency of sense to the universe at large. Eventually illusions and simulations are revealed. Not because of any Pollyanna law of truth in the universe, but because representations are not whole. Experiences which are not grounded in the absolute are facades which inevitably reveal their seams under some condition of 'light' over time. Nice, that's an interesting way to put it. Thanks, cool. Craig Telmo. Craig Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
On Monday, October 21, 2013 5:34:09 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:08 AM, meekerdb meek...@verizon.netjavascript: wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure. Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint. People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate. Freud saw this as the most basis drive. Sure, the biological program would prevent us from choosing heaven itself. But it's interesting to become aware that this is the case. No rational objections against bliss can be made. Bliss is, by definition, the most desirable state of consciousness. It's the state of consciousness were one doesn't long for any other state. And yet, most of us would pass. Yes, that is a great point that I have tried to make in different ways but you hit it more directly. There is something off about the model of feelings which the intellect tends to produce. Like denying the curvature of the Earth because it is made of lengths measured in straight rods. Thought does not know that it arises from feeling. It imagines that it arises instead from super-thought beyond feeling. It's an assumption that requires the evidence of experience to question. Theory alone cannot capture what feeling is and why it compels us. Thanks, Craig Best, Telmo. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 10:11:22 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: Craig: I don't think that is actually possible. The intellect can conceive of monotonous bliss, but that does not mean that is the way that bliss could work. Exactly. That's what I am talking about with Telmo, below. Like the curvature of the Earth, the ontology of feeling does not permit monotony. It is a momentum of accumulated experience with a trajectory. Like monotonous sensations, they tend to be compensated for and suppressed from conscious awareness. Craig A bliss that you cannot escape from is ultimately a prison. Our understanding of sensation points to relation of contrasts, not to mechanical absolutes. Feelings are living responses to meaningful conditions. We quickly adapt to euphoria, build a tolerance, become bored. There may not be any such thing as a bliss which cannot fade into misery eventually. If there were, I think it would constitute a kind of universal halting, just as strong addiction can suspend normal social functions. Richard: Sounds like nirvana On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:08:14 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure.� Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint.� People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate.� Freud saw this as the most basis drive. I guess the conceit would be that this pleasure would simulate experiences of accomplishment, creativity, etc. Interestingly enough, part of the effect of cannabis seems to include an exaggeration of accomplishment which relates to alleviating boredom. The childlike fascination with mundane details and the heightening of minor errands to seem like Ulysses-like odysseys has both profound and silly implications. Who is to say, after all, that driving to the store to get some Doritos isn't an odyssey? There does seem to be a self-limiting feature of cannabis though, as eventually one's own sloth can become the most obvious wonder to meditate on. This I attribute to the transparency of sense to the universe at large. Eventually illusions and simulations are revealed. Not because of any Pollyanna law of truth in the universe, but because representations are not whole. Experiences which are not grounded in the absolute are facades which inevitably reveal their seams under some condition of 'light' over time. Craig Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
On 10/21/2013 2:34 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 1:08 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure. Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint. People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate. Freud saw this as the most basis drive. Sure, the biological program would prevent us from choosing heaven itself. But it's interesting to become aware that this is the case. No rational objections against bliss can be made. Bliss is, by definition, the most desirable state of consciousness. It's the state of consciousness were one doesn't long for any other state. And yet, most of us would pass. Or we have already chosen it. As Nietzsche would say, Love your fate. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
Quote - Environment Problem an amusing story about a demon giving a man an advance glimpse of Hell, was collected in Space 1, an anthology edited by Richard Davis. Wireheading is of course a term taken from Larry Niven's known space stories, Gil Hamilton and the ARM and so on. On 21 October 2013 22:39, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:54 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: This is explored in (amongst other places) the final chapter of A history of the world in 10 1/2 chapters. (The converse is explored in a short story by Michael Moorcock about someone who goes to Hell and finds it quite pleasant after a while.) Liz, thanks for the sci-fi references. I love reading such things. Any idea on where the Michael Moorcock story was published? When I was a kid and had to attend catholic Sunday school, I was terrified of heaven -- it sounded boring and oppressive. Also Sunday school prevented me from watching Battlestar Galactica (the original series). I suspect this was the seed of my deep resentment towards organized religion. Best, Telmo. This is also discussed in literature on Utopias generally (probably going back to someone like Plato) - the problem with wireheading is that it omits some of the supposedly necessary features of utopian existence e.g. breadth and vividness. So although one might be unable to escape it if placed in this situation, that doesn't mean one would choose it (since when *not* perpetually blissed out, one can see its inadequacies). On 21 October 2013 07:43, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:53:41 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: Another way of approaching human emulation. Step 1: Manufacture an inexpensive biofeedback monitor that you plug into your internet enabled device. Step 2: Braindora reads up your personal data and compares it against a huge database of other people’s data, looking for matches. Step 3. Meanwhile, Braindora keeps monitoring what you are looking at online while it tracks your brain data, comparing your history of what you find and how it makes you feel. Matches that correlate to mood improvement, on both a short term and long term basis are flagged. Step 4: Braindora offers to take over your web browsing, steering your computer/TV/Ipod/game system automatically to sources which are most statistically likely to be successful in improving the indicators in ‘people who probably feel like you do’. Step 5: Customers, who are now virtually incapable of being bored, can go to the next level and browse social networks for bio-compatible matches in the same way. Step 6: Gradually all lifestyle decisions can be ported to the system, ensuring that that everything that you eat, buy, do, or experience is optimized at least a little better than you could do on your own. Step 7: The entire process will be recorded and fed back into the system so that it can be compressed into an algorithm which can be pushed back to the customer’s transcranial magnetic stimulation device. As a result, everyone will feel like they have a great and constantly improving life, even as they degenerate into pulpy masses of human squash. If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I might choose it personally, but that is only because my personhood is defined by its deprivations. If I were the universe, an ontology of masturbation is a dead end. I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? I don't think that is actually possible. The intellect can conceive of monotonous bliss, but that does not mean that is the way that bliss could work. A bliss that you cannot escape from is ultimately a prison. Our understanding of sensation points to relation of contrasts, not to mechanical absolutes. Feelings are living responses to meaningful conditions. We quickly adapt to euphoria, build a tolerance, become bored. There may not be any such thing as a bliss which cannot fade into misery eventually. If there were, I think it would constitute a kind of universal halting, just as strong addiction can suspend normal social functions. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at
Re: Braindora
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Another way of approaching human emulation. Step 1: Manufacture an inexpensive biofeedback monitor that you plug into your internet enabled device. Step 2: Braindora reads up your personal data and compares it against a huge database of other people’s data, looking for matches. Step 3. Meanwhile, Braindora keeps monitoring what you are looking at online while it tracks your brain data, comparing your history of what you find and how it makes you feel. Matches that correlate to mood improvement, on both a short term and long term basis are flagged. Step 4: Braindora offers to take over your web browsing, steering your computer/TV/Ipod/game system automatically to sources which are most statistically likely to be successful in improving the indicators in ‘people who probably feel like you do’. Step 5: Customers, who are now virtually incapable of being bored, can go to the next level and browse social networks for bio-compatible matches in the same way. Step 6: Gradually all lifestyle decisions can be ported to the system, ensuring that that everything that you eat, buy, do, or experience is optimized at least a little better than you could do on your own. Step 7: The entire process will be recorded and fed back into the system so that it can be compressed into an algorithm which can be pushed back to the customer’s transcranial magnetic stimulation device. As a result, everyone will feel like they have a great and constantly improving life, even as they degenerate into pulpy masses of human squash. If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:53:41 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Another way of approaching human emulation. Step 1: Manufacture an inexpensive biofeedback monitor that you plug into your internet enabled device. Step 2: Braindora reads up your personal data and compares it against a huge database of other people’s data, looking for matches. Step 3. Meanwhile, Braindora keeps monitoring what you are looking at online while it tracks your brain data, comparing your history of what you find and how it makes you feel. Matches that correlate to mood improvement, on both a short term and long term basis are flagged. Step 4: Braindora offers to take over your web browsing, steering your computer/TV/Ipod/game system automatically to sources which are most statistically likely to be successful in improving the indicators in ‘people who probably feel like you do’. Step 5: Customers, who are now virtually incapable of being bored, can go to the next level and browse social networks for bio-compatible matches in the same way. Step 6: Gradually all lifestyle decisions can be ported to the system, ensuring that that everything that you eat, buy, do, or experience is optimized at least a little better than you could do on your own. Step 7: The entire process will be recorded and fed back into the system so that it can be compressed into an algorithm which can be pushed back to the customer’s transcranial magnetic stimulation device. As a result, everyone will feel like they have a great and constantly improving life, even as they degenerate into pulpy masses of human squash. If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I might choose it personally, but that is only because my personhood is defined by its deprivations. If I were the universe, an ontology of masturbation is a dead end. I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? I don't think that is actually possible. The intellect can conceive of monotonous bliss, but that does not mean that is the way that bliss could work. A bliss that you cannot escape from is ultimately a prison. Our understanding of sensation points to relation of contrasts, not to mechanical absolutes. Feelings are living responses to meaningful conditions. We quickly adapt to euphoria, build a tolerance, become bored. There may not be any such thing as a bliss which cannot fade into misery eventually. If there were, I think it would constitute a kind of universal halting, just as strong addiction can suspend normal social functions. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:08:14 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure.� Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint.� People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate.� Freud saw this as the most basis drive. I guess the conceit would be that this pleasure would simulate experiences of accomplishment, creativity, etc. Interestingly enough, part of the effect of cannabis seems to include an exaggeration of accomplishment which relates to alleviating boredom. The childlike fascination with mundane details and the heightening of minor errands to seem like Ulysses-like odysseys has both profound and silly implications. Who is to say, after all, that driving to the store to get some Doritos isn't an odyssey? There does seem to be a self-limiting feature of cannabis though, as eventually one's own sloth can become the most obvious wonder to meditate on. This I attribute to the transparency of sense to the universe at large. Eventually illusions and simulations are revealed. Not because of any Pollyanna law of truth in the universe, but because representations are not whole. Experiences which are not grounded in the absolute are facades which inevitably reveal their seams under some condition of 'light' over time. Craig Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Braindora
Craig: I don't think that is actually possible. The intellect can conceive of monotonous bliss, but that does not mean that is the way that bliss could work. A bliss that you cannot escape from is ultimately a prison. Our understanding of sensation points to relation of contrasts, not to mechanical absolutes. Feelings are living responses to meaningful conditions. We quickly adapt to euphoria, build a tolerance, become bored. There may not be any such thing as a bliss which cannot fade into misery eventually. If there were, I think it would constitute a kind of universal halting, just as strong addiction can suspend normal social functions. Richard: Sounds like nirvana On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: On Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:08:14 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 10/20/2013 3:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: If this was possible, wouldn't you choose it? If not, why not? I have a recurring similar discussion with a friend: suppose you could be put in a capsule on life support and given a steady supply of a drug that makes you feel pure bliss for the rest of your natural life. Would you agree? If not, why not? Nietzshce would say, because human motivation is the will to power, the satisfaction of accomplishment, creativity - not bliss or pleasure.� Which makes sense from an evolutionary viewpoint.� People (and other animals) will risk and suffer and sacrifice in order to procreate.� Freud saw this as the most basis drive. I guess the conceit would be that this pleasure would simulate experiences of accomplishment, creativity, etc. Interestingly enough, part of the effect of cannabis seems to include an exaggeration of accomplishment which relates to alleviating boredom. The childlike fascination with mundane details and the heightening of minor errands to seem like Ulysses-like odysseys has both profound and silly implications. Who is to say, after all, that driving to the store to get some Doritos isn't an odyssey? There does seem to be a self-limiting feature of cannabis though, as eventually one's own sloth can become the most obvious wonder to meditate on. This I attribute to the transparency of sense to the universe at large. Eventually illusions and simulations are revealed. Not because of any Pollyanna law of truth in the universe, but because representations are not whole. Experiences which are not grounded in the absolute are facades which inevitably reveal their seams under some condition of 'light' over time. Craig Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
