subject:"Religious Robots"

On 23 Mar 2013, at 23:55, Craig Weinberg wrote:

On Friday, March 22, 2013 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote:
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi   
wrote:

> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
>>> simply wishful thinking?
>
>
> ...
>
>>
>> Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
>> humans. Richard
>
>
> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they  
programmed

> or not?
>

Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience.

There are religious experiences too.

Yes. But they are by nature secrete, and we can only encourage them by  
example or by suggesting technic. In religion the wise remains silent.  
The rest is bad politics.

Bruno

Craig

Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will
not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill
skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for
most of us. Richard

> Evgenii
>
>
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Re: Religious Robots



On 23 Mar 2013, at 01:12, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

These inmanentist religions (eartly utopianism) it is clear that  
substitute God by Man (upper case).  A divinized man . This has the  
most evident form of personality cult to the chosen ones that have  
the knowledge and/or are at the control of the transformation  
process, that in the modernity is called "revolution". In the case  
of Nazism and comunism it is evident. but this pattern is also  
clearly visible in every modern movement, be it theological,  
philosophical or scientific . The displacement  from the former to  
the latter in recent movements shows for itself how the  
inmanentization works: The dualism is exacerbated because every  
failure is blamed  on the " reaction", which is conceptualized as an  
absolute evil force that opposes to the absolute Good of the utopia,  
instead of blaming the mismatch between the utopic model and the  
reality.


When the inevitable defeath happens, the failure of the model is  
admitted. Then a new uthopia is created based on a worldview that  
drop out the elements of the former that supposedly failed. At the  
same time, the new revolutionaries blame not being strict enough  
with the "reactionaries". Then the new movement is more radical and  
has less and less elements of common sense guidelines for dealing  
with reality.


Lets say that the ideological descendants of the radical sects that  
expected the second coming of christ at a certain date, became  
french revolutionaries, then atheist marxists and so on.


Somehow this divinization of man of the modern uthopias have much in  
common with the most primitive religions, since the cult to the  
tribal leader or the founder leader, and thus, the cult of Man, is  
the most primitive religión.


But in fact the cult of the leader has an  associate cult to oneself  
if only by the fact that oneself has an special knowledge that will  
transform reality and oneself. That can be applied to the AI  
apocalipticists, as wellas to the radical puritans of the XXVII  
century or the marxist revolutionaries



The problem is that we have been programmed to believe that some  
humans can think in our places. That has given some advantage to our  
species, but in the long run it is a fatal bullet.


Bruno







2013/3/23 Stephen P. King 

On 3/22/2013 3:27 PM, meekerdb wrote:

On 3/22/2013 4:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in  
Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality


p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be  
more spiritual than human being and believes that the future will  
include real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent  
machines will congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since  
all human mental phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view,  
computational processes, religious experiences must be as well. "


p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into  
their religious communities and some robots might wish to join  
them. Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter,  
acquire 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and  
meaning, then some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both  
theologians and computer scientists have supported such a view,  
including Anne Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."


p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has  
argued that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary  
by-product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."


p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have  
in the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that  
theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."




At least they will have the more realistic view that "The Creator"  
is neither omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnibenevolent, and isn't  
even a single person.


Brent


Such demiurges tend to be soliopathic...

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Re: Religious Robots



On 22 Mar 2013, at 21:42, meekerdb wrote:


On 3/22/2013 6:41 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi   
wrote:

On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
 wrote:

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
simply wishful thinking?


...


Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
humans. Richard


What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they  
programmed

or not?


Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you  
will
not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is  
downhill

skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening  
for

most of us. Richard


There are more people killed due to religious beliefs everyday that  
those killed by skiing in a year.


I guess you mean wrong religious beliefs. Being wrong on anything is  
always being in danger, at some level.


Bruno






Brent

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Re: Religious Robots



On 22 Mar 2013, at 20:27, meekerdb wrote:


On 3/22/2013 4:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in  
Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality


p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be  
more spiritual than human being and believes that the future will  
include real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent  
machines will congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all  
human mental phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view,  
computational processes, religious experiences must be as well. "


p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into  
their religious communities and some robots might wish to join  
them. Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter,  
acquire 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and  
meaning, then some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both  
theologians and computer scientists have supported such a view,  
including Anne Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."


p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has  
argued that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary  
by-product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."


p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have  
in the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that  
theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."




At least they will have the more realistic view that "The Creator"  
is neither omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnibenevolent,


I can be OK with this.




and isn't even a single person.


I have no certainty about that. Open problem in the weak comp frame.

Bruno





Brent

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Re: Religious Robots



On 22 Mar 2013, at 16:45, Richard Ruquist wrote:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi   
wrote:

On 22.03.2013 14:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi 
wrote:


On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
 wrote:



These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it
is simply wishful thinking?




...



Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
humans. Richard




What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they
programmed or not?



Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish
what you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an
example. You predict that you are capable of driving and also  
believe

that you will not get caught. A better example of prediction and
control is downhill skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up
skiing and believed he could handle any slope, ran into a tree and  
is

now a vegtable. Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less
life threatening for most of us. Richard



What about beliefs in some metaphysical entities like for example
superstrings? Or in multverse?


I have those beliefs. See http://yanniru.blogspot.com/2013/ and I do
not consider them life threatening. But the question is whether those
beliefs have been programmed.

I think not since the key features of my work are unique. Those
features are: a string theory comp machine based on Calabi-Yau compact
manifolds and the resulting number system having degrees completeness
based on universe size.

So I claim that (abstract) beliefs are not programmed if they are
based on independent experience and not something that you have read
or been told. For example I do not believe in the MWI multiverse based
on my work
referenced above.

However, the real question is whether a robot can create its own
beliefs beyond ones that are programmed. I say no problem. Already
robots are being designed to learn from experience. And they never
forget.


You have to forget to learn. Not forgetting is an handicapping disease  
(hypermnesia).


Bruno






Richard





Evgenii

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Re: Religious Robots



On 22 Mar 2013, at 16:00, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:


On 22.03.2013 14:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi 
wrote:

On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
 wrote:


These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it
is simply wishful thinking?



...



Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
humans. Richard



What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they
programmed or not?



Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish
what you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an
example. You predict that you are capable of driving and also believe
that you will not get caught. A better example of prediction and
control is downhill skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up
skiing and believed he could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is
now a vegtable. Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less
life threatening for most of us. Richard


What about beliefs in some metaphysical entities like for example  
superstrings? Or in multverse?


Or in the sun, or the moon. Machines will believe the same kind of  
hypotheses we do, if their goal consists in satifying themselves. But  
man made machine are slaves at the start, and will not be encouraged  
to develop their own motivations, a bit like children in authoritative  
countries.


Bruno





Evgenii

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Re: Religious Robots



On 22 Mar 2013, at 13:49, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:


On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
 wrote:

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
simply wishful thinking?


...



Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
humans. Richard


What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they  
programmed or not?


I would say that they are engrammed. It is like programming, but but  
trials and error in very long stories, driven by simple goal, like  
"help yourself".


Bruno





Evgenii

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Re: Religious Robots

On 22 Mar 2013, at 13:47, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

On 22.03.2013 13:06 Alberto G. Corona said the following:

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
simply wishful thinking?

In the book, the author just describes/documents what other people  
say. The reason from others, as far as I have understood it  
correctly, is similar to what Brent recently has written

On 21.03.2013 01:26 meekerdb said the following:

> When we can build robots that act just like people and
> report their qualia to us - then we'll think we've explained qualia,
> and questions like "Yes, but what is it really?" will seem
> anachronistic.

If robots could do that, then presumably they could also tell us  
about their attitude to God. I mean that if someone believes that  
robot could be conscious then as a corollary robot's beliefs follow.

Machines does already that. The problem is on the human side. We don't  
listen. Of course today, there is still a need of doing some math to  
"listen" to the machine.

Bruno

Evgenii

2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 

Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in
Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality

p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be
more spiritual than human being and believes that the future will
include real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent
machines will congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all
human mental phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view,
computational processes, religious experiences must be as well. "

p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into
their religious communities and some robots might wish to join
them. Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter,
acquire 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and
meaning, then some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both
theologians and computer scientists have supported such a view,
including Anne Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."

p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has
argued that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary
by-product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."

p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have
in the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that
theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."

--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/03/**religious-robots.html

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Re: Religious Robots



On 22 Mar 2013, at 13:41, Richard Ruquist wrote:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona > wrote:
These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is  
simply

wishful thinking?


2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 


Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in  
Robotics,

Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality

p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more
spiritual than human being and believes that the future will  
include real
and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will  
congregate
(Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental phenomena  
are, from
Kurzweil's point of view, computational processes, religious  
experiences

must be as well. "

p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into  
their

religious communities and some robots might wish to join them.
Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire
'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then  
some of
those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and  
computer
scientists have supported such a view, including Anne Foerst,  
David Levy,

and Edmund Furse."

p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has  
argued that
robots will join in religious practices as a necessary by-product  
of their

emotional range and conscious beliefs."

p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have  
in the
religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that  
theologians have

engaged robotics is considerably more so."

--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/03/religious-robots.html

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--
Alberto.



Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most humans.



That kind of things will happen for any type of beliefs, with human  
and machines, as long as we tolerate the argument per authority, and  
lack trust or faith. The kind of faith anyone can develop by looking  
inward.


Bruno






Richard


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Re: Religious Robots



On 22 Mar 2013, at 13:06, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is  
simply wishful thinking?


We can already listen to the ideally correct machines on this. They  
already grasp UDA and provides the solution in the shape of a  
theology, in the greek sense which include physics, and this makes  
their theology, as a whole, completely testable, and thanks to QM, it  
fits up to now. In a nutshell, the answer is that Plato is right, and  
Aristotle and physicalist are wrong.

See my URL for the details, or ask question.

Bruno






2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 
Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in  
Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality


p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more  
spiritual than human being and believes that the future will include  
real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will  
congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental  
phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view, computational  
processes, religious experiences must be as well. "


p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into  
their religious communities and some robots might wish to join them.  
Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire  
'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then  
some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and  
computer scientists have supported such a view, including Anne  
Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."


p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued  
that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary by- 
product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."


p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in  
the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that  
theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."


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Re: Religious Robots

2013-03-23 Thread Craig Weinberg



On Friday, March 22, 2013 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, yanniru wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi 
> > 
> wrote: 
> > On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following: 
> > 
> >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona 
> >> > wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is 
> >>> simply wishful thinking? 
> > 
> > 
> > ... 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most 
> >> humans. Richard 
> > 
> > 
> > What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they 
> programmed 
> > or not? 
> > 
>
> Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on 
> experience. 


There are religious experiences too.

Craig
 

> Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what 
> you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You 
> predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will 
> not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill 
> skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he 
> could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable. 
> Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for 
> most of us. Richard 
>
> > Evgenii 
> > 
> > 
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Re: Religious Robots

2013-03-23 Thread meekerdb

On 3/23/2013 3:33 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

One more idea about religión and robots:
A religión can not be hardcoded. Religión implies belief and a belief is something that
can be or can be not that way, but anyway the individual is committed to asume it, This
is vital for cooperative entities that compite with others or, put another way, when the
individuals have different affiliation alternatives. But all ot this complication is
meaningles in pure cooperative entities.
An example: the CPU and the memory chip of my laptop does not need to meet to repeat
aloud the rules of memory transfer - They don´t need to offer sacrifices as a sign of
commitment to these rules- They have the memory transfer rules hardcoded. They don't
need to enforce them trough rites.
Instead, an organized group of people, like a group of free robots need religion,
because neither their affiliation neither their rules are hardcoded, so each one need to
be sure that each other invest time and effort in learning and accepting the ruules, by
means of a form of sacrifice for them. Game theorist would say that the sacrifice makes
the collaboration stable.

I think that's true. But people do have some 'hardcoded' ethics. The problem is that they
were hardcoded by evolution for people living in small tribal groups. Now people form
much bigger societies: cities, states, nations,... So they have built-in ethical values,
empathies, sense of fairness, etc that are hard to satisfy living essentially in a society
of strangers.

In a robot society there's no reason that the 'hardwired' empathy for example could not
extend to all other sentient beings - at least if it was hardwired by us. But once robots
reproduce and evolve all bets are off.

Brent

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Re: Religious Robots

2013-03-23 Thread Alberto G. Corona

One more idea about religión and robots:

 A religión can not be hardcoded. Religión implies belief and a belief is
something that can be or can be  not that way, but anyway the individual is
committed to asume it, This is vital for cooperative entities that compite
with others or, put another way, when the individuals have different
affiliation alternatives.  But all ot this complication  is meaningles in
pure cooperative entities.

An example: the CPU and the memory chip of my laptop does not need to meet
to repeat aloud the rules of memory transfer - They don´t need to offer
sacrifices as a sign of commitment to these rules- They have the memory
transfer rules hardcoded. They don't need to enforce them trough rites.


Instead, an organized group of people, like a group of free robots need
religion, because neither their affiliation neither their rules are
hardcoded, so each one need to be sure that each other invest time and
effort in learning and accepting the ruules, by means of a form of
sacrifice for them. Game theorist would say that the sacrifice makes the
collaboration stable.



2013/3/23 Richard Ruquist 

> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
> > On 3/22/2013 6:41 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
> >>>
>  On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
>   wrote:
> >
> > These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
> > simply wishful thinking?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>>
>  Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
>  humans. Richard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they
> >>> programmed
> >>> or not?
> >>>
> >> Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
> >> experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
> >> you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
> >> predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will
> >> not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill
> >> skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
> >> could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
> >> Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for
> >> most of us. Richard
> >
> >
> > There are more people killed due to religious beliefs everyday that those
> > killed by skiing in a year.
> >
> >
> I doubt if that is true on a per capita basis.
> There are billions of people with religious beliefs
> and relatively few skiers.
> However, I do not understand what that has to do with the discussion.
> Richard
>
>
>
> > Brent
> >
> > --
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Re: Religious Robots

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:42 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
> On 3/22/2013 6:41 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>>>
 On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
  wrote:
>
> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
> simply wishful thinking?
>>>
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
 Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
 humans. Richard
>>>
>>>
>>> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they
>>> programmed
>>> or not?
>>>
>> Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
>> experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
>> you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
>> predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will
>> not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill
>> skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
>> could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
>> Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for
>> most of us. Richard
>
>
> There are more people killed due to religious beliefs everyday that those
> killed by skiing in a year.
>
>
I doubt if that is true on a per capita basis.
There are billions of people with religious beliefs
and relatively few skiers.
However, I do not understand what that has to do with the discussion.
Richard



> Brent
>
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Re: Religious Robots

These inmanentist religions (eartly utopianism) it is clear that substitute
God by Man (upper case).  A divinized man . This has the most evident form
of personality cult to the chosen ones that have the knowledge and/or are
at the control of the transformation process, that in the modernity is
called "revolution". In the case of Nazism and comunism it is evident. but
this pattern is also clearly visible in every modern movement, be it
theological, philosophical or scientific . The displacement  from the
former to the latter in recent movements shows for itself how the
inmanentization works: The dualism is exacerbated because every failure is
blamed  on the " reaction", which is conceptualized as an absolute evil
force that opposes to the absolute Good of the utopia, instead of blaming
the mismatch between the utopic model and the reality.

When the inevitable defeath happens, the failure of the model is admitted.
Then a new uthopia is created based on a worldview that drop out the
elements of the former that supposedly failed. At the same time, the new
revolutionaries blame not being strict enough with the "reactionaries".
Then the new movement is more radical and has less and less elements of
common sense guidelines for dealing with reality.

Lets say that the ideological descendants of the radical sects that
expected the second coming of christ at a certain date, became french
revolutionaries, then atheist marxists and so on.

Somehow this divinization of man of the modern uthopias have much in common
with the most primitive religions, since the cult to the tribal leader or
the founder leader, and thus, the cult of Man, is the most primitive
religión.

But in fact the cult of the leader has an  associate cult to oneself if
only by the fact that oneself has an special knowledge that will transform
reality and oneself. That can be applied to the AI apocalipticists, as
wellas to the radical puritans of the XXVII century or the marxist
revolutionaries

2013/3/23 Stephen P. King 

>
> On 3/22/2013 3:27 PM, meekerdb wrote:
>
> On 3/22/2013 4:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>
> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics,
> Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>
> p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more
> spiritual than human being and believes that the future will include real
> and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will congregate
> (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental phenomena are, from
> Kurzweil's point of view, computational processes, religious experiences
> must be as well. "
>
> p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into their
> religious communities and some robots might wish to join them.
> Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire
> 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then some of
> those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and computer
> scientists have supported such a view, including Anne Foerst, David Levy,
> and Edmund Furse."
>
> p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued that
> robots will join in religious practices as a necessary by-product of their
> emotional range and conscious beliefs."
>
> p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in the
> religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that theologians have
> engaged robotics is considerably more so."
>
>
> At least they will have the more realistic view that "The Creator" is
> neither omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnibenevolent, and isn't even a single
> person.
>
> Brent
>
>
> Such demiurges tend to be soliopathic...
>
> --
> Onward!
>
> Stephen
>
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Re: Religious Robots


On 3/22/2013 4:42 PM, meekerdb wrote:
> On 3/22/2013 6:41 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi 
>> wrote:
>>> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>>>
 On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
  wrote:
> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
> simply wishful thinking?
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
 Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
 humans. Richard
>>>
>>> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they
>>> programmed
>>> or not?
>>>
>> Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
>> experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
>> you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
>> predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will
>> not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill
>> skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
>> could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
>> Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for
>> most of us. Richard
>
> There are more people killed due to religious beliefs everyday that
> those killed by skiing in a year.
>
> Brent
>

Hi Brent,

I would go so far to say that religious zeatotry is the #1 killer of
humans as I include secular religions such as Leninism and Maoism...

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Re: Religious Robots


On 3/22/2013 3:27 PM, meekerdb wrote:
> On 3/22/2013 4:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in
>> Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>>
>> p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more
>> spiritual than human being and believes that the future will include
>> real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will
>> congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental
>> phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view, computational
>> processes, religious experiences must be as well. "
>>
>> p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into
>> their religious communities and some robots might wish to join them.
>> Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire
>> 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then
>> some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and
>> computer scientists have supported such a view, including Anne
>> Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."
>>
>> p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued
>> that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary
>> by-product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."
>>
>> p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in
>> the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that
>> theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."
>>
>
> At least they will have the more realistic view that "The Creator" is
> neither omnipotent, omniscient, nor omnibenevolent, and isn't even a
> single person.
>
> Brent

Such demiurges tend to be soliopathic...

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Re: Religious Robots


On 3/22/2013 2:42 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
> Ok. I understand.
>  
> Well this eartly salvation is not only typical of AI. Voegelin coined
> the term "inmanentization of the eschaton" as the common caracteristic
> of the modern political and scientific movements.
>  
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton
>  
> which means the belief of a heaven on earth accesible by means of some
> form of hidden knowledge, that make people transcend the reality
> towards another reality free of suffering and contradictions. That
> knowledge could be transfered  generation by generation (masons,
> gnostics etc)  or discovered/read in nature by choosen people. This
> knowledge can have a theological nature  a philosophical nature
> (marxists, niettzcheans, progressivists) or a scientific nature
> (scientists). 
>  
> Voegelin say that what drives modernity in the Western world is -more
> or less- the desire of the Christian eschatology and the despair of
> it.  the desire for salvation and the impatience with the Christian
> parousía (the end of the time). This impatience  generates heresy
> after heresy each one more radical and promises a more close coming of
> heaven in Earth. According with voegelin, there is a continuum between
> the ancient gnostics and the modern uthopias, and share the same basic
> impulses.
>  
> So this apocaliptic AI is one more scientist wave in this vast
> historical process.  Almost  every scientific discipline has promised
> a kind of salvation for himself.

A friend and I gave a talk on Tipler's Omega Point book once, it
involves a version of Eschaton... Platonia is the Ultimate Eschaton, IMHO...


>  
>
>
> 2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi mailto:use...@rudnyi.ru>>
>
> On 22.03.2013 15:31 Alberto G. Corona said the following:
>
> I a previous discussion in this list ("robotic truth")  I
> argue that
> a robot in a competitive environment has to develop (or be
> programmed for) all the elements of  religión and beliefs to
> cooperate and survive.
>
>
> The goal of the book of Robert Geraci is different. He is after
> all a professor of religious studies. His goal were rather to
> compare typical Christian ideas of Apocalypse with the ideas that
> one can find in the AI community. The book as such is academic in
> nature and as a result a bit boring. Yet, he is convincing and the
> book seems justifie what he writes in the introduction:
>
> p. 7 "Apocaliptic AI is a powerful reconciliation of religion and
> science. The sacred categories of Jewish and Christian apocalyptic
> traditions have thoroughly penetrated the futuristic musings of
> important researches in robotics and artificial intelligence.
> Those categories have serious effects in robotics research,
> virtual reality/online gaming, and contemporary disputes over the
> nature of consciousness and personhood, public policy, and theology."
>
> The author seemingly enjoys it. The book could though be a warning
> for atheists who fight with Church and forget to check what one
> can find among AI studies.
>
> Evgenii
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi  >
>
> On 22.03.2013 13:47 Stephen P. King said the following:
>
>
> On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>
> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions
> of Heaven
> in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual
> Reality
>
>
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Re: Religious Robots

2013-03-22 Thread meekerdb

On 3/22/2013 6:41 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
wrote:

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
simply wishful thinking?

...

Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
humans. Richard

What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they programmed
or not?

Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will
not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill
skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for
most of us. Richard

There are more people killed due to religious beliefs everyday that those killed by skiing
in a year.

Brent

Re: Religious Robots

2013-03-22 Thread meekerdb


On 3/22/2013 4:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics, Artificial 
Intelligence, and Virtual Reality


p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more spiritual than 
human being and believes that the future will include real and virtual houses of worship 
where intelligent machines will congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all 
human mental phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view, computational processes, 
religious experiences must be as well. "


p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into their religious 
communities and some robots might wish to join them. Fundamentally, if robots become 
conscious and, thereafter, acquire 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and 
meaning, then some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and 
computer scientists have supported such a view, including Anne Foerst, David Levy, and 
Edmund Furse."


p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued that robots will 
join in religious practices as a necessary by-product of their emotional range and 
conscious beliefs."


p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in the religious life 
of robots is fascinating but the fact that theologians have engaged robotics is 
considerably more so."




At least they will have the more realistic view that "The Creator" is neither omnipotent, 
omniscient, nor omnibenevolent, and isn't even a single person.


Brent

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Re: Religious Robots

Ok. I understand.

Well this eartly salvation is not only typical of AI. Voegelin coined the
term "inmanentization of the eschaton" as the common caracteristic of the
modern political and scientific movements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton

which means the belief of a heaven on earth accesible by means of some form
of hidden knowledge, that make people transcend the reality towards another
reality free of suffering and contradictions. That knowledge could be
transfered  generation by generation (masons, gnostics etc)  or
discovered/read in nature by choosen people. This knowledge can have a
theological nature  a philosophical nature (marxists, niettzcheans,
progressivists) or a scientific nature (scientists).

Voegelin say that what drives modernity in the Western world is -more or
less- the desire of the Christian eschatology and the despair of it.  the
desire for salvation and the impatience with the Christian parousía (the
end of the time). This impatience  generates heresy after heresy each one
more radical and promises a more close coming of heaven in Earth. According
with voegelin, there is a continuum between the ancient gnostics and the
modern uthopias, and share the same basic impulses.

So this apocaliptic AI is one more scientist wave in this vast historical
process.  Almost  every scientific discipline has promised a kind of
salvation for himself.

2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 

> On 22.03.2013 15:31 Alberto G. Corona said the following:
>
>  I a previous discussion in this list ("robotic truth")  I argue that
>> a robot in a competitive environment has to develop (or be
>> programmed for) all the elements of  religión and beliefs to
>> cooperate and survive.
>>
>
> The goal of the book of Robert Geraci is different. He is after all a
> professor of religious studies. His goal were rather to compare typical
> Christian ideas of Apocalypse with the ideas that one can find in the AI
> community. The book as such is academic in nature and as a result a bit
> boring. Yet, he is convincing and the book seems justifie what he writes in
> the introduction:
>
> p. 7 "Apocaliptic AI is a powerful reconciliation of religion and science.
> The sacred categories of Jewish and Christian apocalyptic traditions have
> thoroughly penetrated the futuristic musings of important researches in
> robotics and artificial intelligence. Those categories have serious effects
> in robotics research, virtual reality/online gaming, and contemporary
> disputes over the nature of consciousness and personhood, public policy,
> and theology."
>
> The author seemingly enjoys it. The book could though be a warning for
> atheists who fight with Church and forget to check what one can find among
> AI studies.
>
> Evgenii
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> 2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 
>>
>>  On 22.03.2013 13:47 Stephen P. King said the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

  Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven
> in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>

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Re: Religious Robots

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi  wrote:
> On 22.03.2013 14:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>>>
 On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
  wrote:
>
>
> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it
> is simply wishful thinking?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ...
>>>

 Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
 humans. Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they
>>> programmed or not?
>>>
>>
>> Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
>> experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish
>> what you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an
>> example. You predict that you are capable of driving and also believe
>> that you will not get caught. A better example of prediction and
>> control is downhill skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up
>> skiing and believed he could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is
>> now a vegtable. Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less
>> life threatening for most of us. Richard
>
>
> What about beliefs in some metaphysical entities like for example
> superstrings? Or in multverse?

I have those beliefs. See http://yanniru.blogspot.com/2013/ and I do
not consider them life threatening. But the question is whether those
beliefs have been programmed.

I think not since the key features of my work are unique. Those
features are: a string theory comp machine based on Calabi-Yau compact
manifolds and the resulting number system having degrees completeness
based on universe size.

So I claim that (abstract) beliefs are not programmed if they are
based on independent experience and not something that you have read
or been told. For example I do not believe in the MWI multiverse based
on my work
referenced above.

However, the real question is whether a robot can create its own
beliefs beyond ones that are programmed. I say no problem. Already
robots are being designed to learn from experience. And they never
forget.

Richard


>
>
> Evgenii
>
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Re: Religious Robots


On 22.03.2013 15:31 Alberto G. Corona said the following:

I a previous discussion in this list ("robotic truth")  I argue that
a robot in a competitive environment has to develop (or be
programmed for) all the elements of  religión and beliefs to
cooperate and survive.


The goal of the book of Robert Geraci is different. He is after all a 
professor of religious studies. His goal were rather to compare typical 
Christian ideas of Apocalypse with the ideas that one can find in the AI 
community. The book as such is academic in nature and as a result a bit 
boring. Yet, he is convincing and the book seems justifie what he writes 
in the introduction:


p. 7 "Apocaliptic AI is a powerful reconciliation of religion and 
science. The sacred categories of Jewish and Christian apocalyptic 
traditions have thoroughly penetrated the futuristic musings of 
important researches in robotics and artificial intelligence. Those 
categories have serious effects in robotics research, virtual 
reality/online gaming, and contemporary disputes over the nature of 
consciousness and personhood, public policy, and theology."


The author seemingly enjoys it. The book could though be a warning for 
atheists who fight with Church and forget to check what one can find 
among AI studies.


Evgenii







2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 


On 22.03.2013 13:47 Stephen P. King said the following:



On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:


Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven
in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality


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Re: Religious Robots


On 22.03.2013 14:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi 
wrote:

On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:


On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
 wrote:


These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it
is simply wishful thinking?



...



Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
humans. Richard



What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they
programmed or not?



Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish
what you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an
example. You predict that you are capable of driving and also believe
that you will not get caught. A better example of prediction and
control is downhill skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up
skiing and believed he could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is
now a vegtable. Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less
life threatening for most of us. Richard


What about beliefs in some metaphysical entities like for example 
superstrings? Or in multverse?


Evgenii

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Re: Religious Robots

I a previous discussion in this list ("robotic truth")  I argue that a
robot in a competitive environment has to develop (or be programmed
for) all the elements of  religión and beliefs to cooperate and survive.




2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 

> On 22.03.2013 13:47 Stephen P. King said the following:
>
>
>> On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>>
>>> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in
>>> Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>>>
>>
> ...
>
>
>
>>>  Dear Evgennii,
>>
>> In your reading of Kurzweil, does he ever explain how AI minds come
>> to be aware of themselves as 'being in a world' with other being
>> that have minds of their own? Does it seem that he just assumes that
>> AI have no solipsism problem when 'born'?
>>
>>
> I know about Kurzweil's view from secondary sources only. Otherwise a good
> question.
>
> Evgenii
>
>
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Re: Religious Robots

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi  wrote:
> On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
>>> simply wishful thinking?
>
>
> ...
>
>>
>> Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
>> humans. Richard
>
>
> What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they programmed
> or not?
>

Not, by and large. Most human non-religious beliefs are based on
experience. Most important is the belief that you can accomplish what
you plan or predict that you can do. Driving drunk is an example. You
predict that you are capable of driving and also believe that you will
not get caught. A better example of prediction and control is downhill
skiing. Recently a Swiss friend who grew up skiing and believed he
could handle any slope, ran into a tree and is now a vegtable.
Religious beliefs are much more abstract and less life threatening for
most of us. Richard

> Evgenii
>
>
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>

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Re: Religious Robots


On 22.03.2013 13:47 Stephen P. King said the following:


On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in
Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality


...




Dear Evgennii,

In your reading of Kurzweil, does he ever explain how AI minds come
to be aware of themselves as 'being in a world' with other being
that have minds of their own? Does it seem that he just assumes that
AI have no solipsism problem when 'born'?



I know about Kurzweil's view from secondary sources only. Otherwise a 
good question.


Evgenii

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Re: Religious Robots


On 22.03.2013 13:41 Richard Ruquist said the following:

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona
 wrote:

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
simply wishful thinking?


...



Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most
humans. Richard


What about non-religious beliefs in humans and robots. Are they 
programmed or not?


Evgenii

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Re: Religious Robots


On 3/22/2013 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
> simply wishful thinking?

I share this question!

>
>
> 2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi mailto:use...@rudnyi.ru>>
>
> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in
> Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>
> p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be
> more spiritual than human being and believes that the future will
> include real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent
> machines will congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since
> all human mental phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view,
> computational processes, religious experiences must be as well. "
>
> p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into
> their religious communities and some robots might wish to join
> them. Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter,
> acquire 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and
> meaning, then some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both
> theologians and computer scientists have supported such a view,
> including Anne Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."
>
> p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has
> argued that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary
> by-product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."
>
> p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have
> in the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that
> theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."
>
> -- 
> http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/03/religious-robots.html
>
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Onward!

Stephen

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Re: Religious Robots


On 22.03.2013 13:06 Alberto G. Corona said the following:

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is
simply wishful thinking?


In the book, the author just describes/documents what other people say. 
The reason from others, as far as I have understood it correctly, is 
similar to what Brent recently has written


On 21.03.2013 01:26 meekerdb said the following:

> When we can build robots that act just like people and
> report their qualia to us - then we'll think we've explained qualia,
> and questions like "Yes, but what is it really?" will seem
> anachronistic.

If robots could do that, then presumably they could also tell us about 
their attitude to God. I mean that if someone believes that robot could 
be conscious then as a corollary robot's beliefs follow.


Evgenii



2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 


Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in
Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality

p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be
more spiritual than human being and believes that the future will
include real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent
machines will congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all
human mental phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view,
computational processes, religious experiences must be as well. "

p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into
their religious communities and some robots might wish to join
them. Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter,
acquire 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and
meaning, then some of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both
theologians and computer scientists have supported such a view,
including Anne Foerst, David Levy, and Edmund Furse."

p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has
argued that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary
by-product of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."

p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have
in the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that
theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."

--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/03/**religious-robots.html


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Re: Religious Robots


On 3/22/2013 7:16 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in
> Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>
> p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more
> spiritual than human being and believes that the future will include
> real and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will
> congregate (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental
> phenomena are, from Kurzweil's point of view, computational processes,
> religious experiences must be as well. "
>
> p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into their
> religious communities and some robots might wish to join them.
> Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire
> 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then some
> of those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and
> computer scientists have supported such a view, including Anne Foerst,
> David Levy, and Edmund Furse."
>
> p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued
> that robots will join in religious practices as a necessary by-product
> of their emotional range and conscious beliefs."
>
> p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in
> the religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that
> theologians have engaged robotics is considerably more so."
>
Dear Evgennii,

In your reading of Kurzweil, does he ever explain how AI minds come
to be aware of themselves as 'being in a world' with other being that
have minds of their own? Does it seem that he just assumes that AI have
no solipsism problem when 'born'?

-- 
Onward!

Stephen


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Re: Religious Robots

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Alberto G. Corona  wrote:
> These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is simply
> wishful thinking?
>
>
> 2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 
>>
>> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics,
>> Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>>
>> p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more
>> spiritual than human being and believes that the future will include real
>> and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will congregate
>> (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental phenomena are, from
>> Kurzweil's point of view, computational processes, religious experiences
>> must be as well. "
>>
>> p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into their
>> religious communities and some robots might wish to join them.
>> Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire
>> 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then some of
>> those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and computer
>> scientists have supported such a view, including Anne Foerst, David Levy,
>> and Edmund Furse."
>>
>> p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued that
>> robots will join in religious practices as a necessary by-product of their
>> emotional range and conscious beliefs."
>>
>> p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in the
>> religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that theologians have
>> engaged robotics is considerably more so."
>>
>> --
>> http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/03/religious-robots.html
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alberto.
>

Religious beliefs will be programmed just as they are in most humans.
Richard

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Re: Religious Robots

These beliefs in robotic religión has some reasons behind or it is simply
wishful thinking?


2013/3/22 Evgenii Rudnyi 

> Quotes from Robert Geraci, Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics,
> Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>
> p. 133 "Ray Kurzweil believes that intelligent machines will be more
> spiritual than human being and believes that the future will include real
> and virtual houses of worship where intelligent machines will congregate
> (Kurzweil 1999, 153). Naturally, since all human mental phenomena are, from
> Kurzweil's point of view, computational processes, religious experiences
> must be as well. "
>
> p. 133-134 "Some human being, however, might welcome robots into their
> religious communities and some robots might wish to join them.
> Fundamentally, if robots become conscious and, thereafter, acquire
> 'beliefs', a state that involves intentionality and meaning, then some of
> those beliefs will surely be religious. Both theologians and computer
> scientists have supported such a view, including Anne Foerst, David Levy,
> and Edmund Furse."
>
> p. 134 "The artificial intelligence researcher David Levy has argued that
> robots will join in religious practices as a necessary by-product of their
> emotional range and conscious beliefs."
>
> p. 134 "Without doubt, the interest that computer scientists have in the
> religious life of robots is fascinating but the fact that theologians have
> engaged robotics is considerably more so."
>
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> http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2013/03/**religious-robots.html
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Alberto.

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Religious Robots