RE: Gonna love this...
We got Citrix here and actively discourage our users from creating .pst's. (They tend to save them to temporary areas then wonder why all their mail goes missing when they log off) You could consider using the disablepst reg hack, but that might give your desktop support team hassle whenever they want to juggle data around for any reason. Are you using Exchange 2000 or 5.5? Just curious because since we went to 2000 we have had some strange problems with PST's on mapped drives. -Matt We are testing Outlook 2002 in Windows 2000/Citrix terminal server and ran into issues with PST files on the users' mapped home drive. We opened a PSS call and were told that Microsoft does not support PST files on mapped drives. The support person then quoted a q article which basically says that performance of a PST file on a network drive will not match a local drive (duh...). Sheesh... _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Yeah, but you didn't say you weren't! :) Impugning my personal integrity?[1][2][3] [1] Ponders recommendation to several people this week of Infonition software. [2] Wonders if his statements about the abilities of Herr Deckler to a customer they met with today should be amended. [3] Decides to cross him off Christmas card list instead.. On 2/6/03 19:03, Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's probably one of those Microsoft MVP's anyway, so he's on their payroll to be a bigot. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP, so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more accurate than your defense thereof. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:04 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Well, that was how I took it as well, but he was just doing such a terrible job at it that it was really more just stupid than funny or anything else. I mean, if you are going to go down that path, then make it funny or at least mildly humorous versus coming out of left field with a DOS reference. Yes, you want to take the argument to the extreme to prove a point, but you cannot do it in such a way that your point comes across as invalid. I could just as easily argue the other side and point out how much fun it would be if every hotfix or service pack caused some major component of the OS to change drastically. Let's say that every hotfix from Microsoft changed the way printers were configured such that you had to go out and reconfigure all of the printers on everyone's desktop every time you applied a hotfix. And I hardly think that I am the biggest Microsoft basher on the planet. They have fundamental flaws in their products and the way that they operate as a company. I point out those flaws when I see them. That's it. However, in some circles, any complaint against Microsoft, no matter how insignificant, is deemed heresy. He's probably one of those Microsoft MVP's anyway, so he's on their payroll to be a bigot. I think I get his point, and you don't, so I'll explain it to you. It's that every time you perceive that something doesn't work, Greg, you paint it as a giant Microsoft crusade to ruin your life. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:15 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point was that this is the straw that breaks the camels back. First my application written for DOS 3.22 stops working on Windows X, then they change core OS functionality like the ability to create an Outlook:// shortcut on the desktop. I say it's time to switch to Linux and Samsung Contact. Screw Microsoft and their poor, very poor backwards compatibility. On 2/6/03 7:00, Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly is your point in all of this? To be honest, I can't follow any line of reasoning or an actual point to this post. You seem to be complaining a lot about something, but I am not sure exactly what it is. There's lots of sarcasm in the post, which seems to be a substitute for actual substance. My DOS application worked under Windows 2000 server, but now doesn't under XP. How is that any different than something working under Outlook 97 and not under Outlook 2002[1]? Hell, there's functionality that worked in Outlook 2000 that was stripped out in Outlook 2000 SR1. Damn that Microsoft! Bastards the whole lot of 'em. Stripping out core OS functionality like Outlook object hyperlinks. Ye gods, that's more critical than preemptive multi-tasking! Next thing you know they'll want us all to upgrade to Exchange 2000 and use these uniquely addressable hyperlink thingies and webdav. When will they learn that 640k is enough RAM for anyone? I have no idea what if any syntax will work for your Outlook:// hyperlinks Greg, but thanks for the entertainment. I'd test, but I don't exactly use Outlook 2002 any longer. [1] Counts on fingers.. Outlook 97, Outlook 98, Outlook 98, Outlook 2000, Outlook 2001, Outlook 2002... Six. Yep, only six versions. What were they thinking?[2] [2] There wasn't a similar hyperlink syntax for the Exchange client was there? Cause then I'd really be mad at them for changing things TWICE!!! On 2/5/03 18:42, Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, I've already seen that Q-article. Still cannot get it to link correctly to an Excel file in Public Folder Favorites. I guess I'll just have to keep trying different combinations until I hit the magic syntax that makes it work, if it is even possible. Second, it is completely different. Last time I checked, I could still pop out to a command prompt and enter \temp\picture.gif or notepad c:\temp\file.txt and I can look at a file. This is equivalent.
RE: OWA install without installing exchange
1. Yes 2. There is none 3. None which I am aware of. -- Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE Sr. Systems Administrator Inovis - Formerly Harbinger and Extricity Atlanta, GA -Original Message- From: Thompson, Elizabeth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:15 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: OWA install without installing exchange System setup NT 4 Domain Exchange 5.5 Enterprise Ed SP 4 (on NT 4 SP6) OWA for Exchange 5.5.on NT 4 SP6 with an empyt exhange setup Plumtree Intranet System on Win2k (sp unknown) Plumtree wish to install their Exchange gadet (java powered web app) but need OWA installed on the Plumtree server box. 1) They say they can install OWA without installing exchange. Is that Correct? What would it take? Has anyone done anything like that? 2) what would be the result of having 2 OWA interfaces on the SAME NT 4 Domain? 3) how will having 2 OWA effect moving to AD and Exchange 2000? They are not playing nice the the other kiddies and I need some truth (hence this e-mail). Liz _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Exchange Server 5.5 and Win 2000 network
Um, no. I believe that's even spelled out in those pesky release notes. -- Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE Sr. Systems Administrator Inovis - Formerly Harbinger and Extricity Atlanta, GA -Original Message- From: Bingel, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:28 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Exchange Server 5.5 and Win 2000 network You can't run it with the AD client on NT4? -Original Message- From: Woodruff, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:27 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Exchange Server 5.5 and Win 2000 network Its not only possible, its required. -Original Message- From: Keith Boettcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:20 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Exchange Server 5.5 and Win 2000 network We are changing our Windows NT network to Win2K. We have a procedure for upgrading NT PDCs to Win2K Active Directory with DNS, etc. How will our Exchange 5.5 server on an NT server box work with this? Should we upgrade that box from NT server to Win2K server and still run Exchange 5.5 on it? We want to upgrade to Win2K before we upgrade to Exchange 2000. Is this possible? What are the dangers? Keith Boettcher _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP, so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more accurate than your defense thereof. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:04 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Well, that was how I took it as well, but he was just doing such a terrible job at it that it was really more just stupid than funny or anything else. I mean, if you are going to go down that path, then make it funny or at least mildly humorous versus coming out of left field with a DOS reference. Yes, you want to take the argument to the extreme to prove a point, but you cannot do it in such a way that your point comes across as invalid. I could just as easily argue the other side and point out how much fun it would be if every hotfix or service pack caused some major component of the OS to change drastically. Let's say that every hotfix from Microsoft changed the way printers were configured such that you had to go out and reconfigure all of the printers on everyone's desktop every time you applied a hotfix. And I hardly think that I am the biggest Microsoft basher on the planet. They have fundamental flaws in their products and the way that they operate as a company. I point out those flaws when I see them. That's it. However, in some circles, any complaint against Microsoft, no matter how insignificant, is deemed heresy. He's probably one of those Microsoft MVP's anyway, so he's on their payroll to be a bigot. I think I get his point, and you don't, so I'll explain it to you. It's that every time you perceive that something doesn't work, Greg, you paint it as a giant Microsoft crusade to ruin your life. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:15 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point was that this is the straw that breaks the camels back. First my application written for DOS 3.22 stops working on Windows X, then they change core OS functionality like the ability to create an Outlook:// shortcut on the desktop. I say it's time to switch to Linux and Samsung Contact. Screw Microsoft and their poor, very poor backwards compatibility. On 2/6/03 7:00, Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly is your point in all of this? To be honest, I can't follow any line of reasoning or an actual point to this post. You seem to be complaining a lot about something, but I am not sure exactly what it is. There's lots of sarcasm in the post, which seems to be a substitute for actual substance. My DOS application worked under Windows 2000 server, but now doesn't under XP. How is that any different than something working under Outlook 97 and not under Outlook 2002[1]? Hell, there's functionality that worked in Outlook 2000 that was stripped out in Outlook 2000 SR1. Damn that Microsoft! Bastards the whole lot of 'em. Stripping out core OS functionality like Outlook object hyperlinks. Ye gods, that's more critical than preemptive multi-tasking! Next thing you know they'll want us all to upgrade to Exchange 2000 and use these uniquely addressable hyperlink thingies and webdav. When will they learn that 640k is enough RAM for anyone? I have no idea what if any syntax will work for your Outlook:// hyperlinks Greg, but thanks for the entertainment. I'd test, but I don't exactly use Outlook 2002 any longer. [1] Counts on fingers.. Outlook 97, Outlook 98, Outlook 98, Outlook 2000, Outlook 2001, Outlook 2002... Six. Yep, only six versions. What were they thinking?[2] [2] There wasn't a similar hyperlink syntax for the Exchange client was there? Cause then I'd really be mad at them for
automating the change of delivery outlook
Hi Does any one know how to change the delivery in outlook to mailbox by using scripts or resource kit utility Regards Santhosh.H E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** This message and any attachments are intended for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward, copy, print, use or disclose this communication to others; also please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it from your system. The Timken Company ** _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Removing NAV from E2K
Well, then, I'd expect you'd have several issues with your Exchange server. You may want to format your C: drive in a lab environment to be sure, though. It's hard to tell. -Original Message- From: Hague, Jeff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:41 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Removing NAV from E2K Subject: RE: Removing NAV from E2K Thanks but I didn't ask HOW to uninstall it, I asked if anyone knew of any issues to look out for WHILE uninstalling it. I know how to do it - Start Run CMD enter format c: yes enter - right? Jeff -Original Message- From: Jim Helfer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:09 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Removing NAV from E2K http://tinyurl.com/5gi1 Strangely enough, it was the FIRST LINK when I typed the word uninstall into the (strangely enough) knowledge base at (strangely enough) Symantec. I sometimes look in these crazy places that nobody else would think of. I'm a maverick like that. Stop it. You're scaring me. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
owa dns
I get the following. I assume I need to create an A record but if I try to create one called mail.phytoceutica.com I can not. Perioeds don't appear. What am I doing wrong here? nslookup mail.phytoceutica.com Server: nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com Address: 192.168.70.10 *** nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com can't find mail.phytoceutica.com: Non-existent domain Jim Liddil _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
And the Oscar goes to... Greg Deckler!! -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Hey Greg I see you are an ONU alumni. How did you like Ada? The beagle? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SAN Recommendations
In preparation for our migration to Exchange 2000, we are working on choosing a SAN to place behind the clustered Exchange servers. We will also be moving various other application and file servers to the SAN as time goes on. Our current data center standard is Dell PowerEdge servers running a mix of NetWare 5.1/6 and Windows NT4/2000. We are looking at the Dell|EMC CX400 and CX600 SANs. In addition to these models, a consultant has proposed the IBM FAStT700 SAN. I'd be interested in getting feedback on performance, service, reliability, etc. from anyone running either of these SANs. Thank you. -- Mark A. Puchalski Network Engineer Honigman Miller Schwartz and Cohn LLP Office: 313.465.7167 Fax: 313.465.8267 * Confidential: This electronic message and all contents contain information from the law firm of Honigman Miller Schwartz and Cohn LLP which may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us immediately (313.465.7000) and destroy the original message and all copies. * _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
No kidding. Until you have sat in a room with 10 MVP's and some MS development people, you have no idea. Martin Blackstone Microsoft MVP. M MVP -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
-Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 February 2003 14:05 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. Really? What secret direct compensation do I receive? But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. Lets see now. My sig (for the rare occasions I bother to append it): -- Robert Moir, MSMVP Senior IT Systems Engineer, Luton Sixth Form College Dogs have owners, Cats have staff Notice it says MSMVP ? So, that's two strikes and two misses so far. I don't get Secret compensation and I appear to have the word MVP in my sig block. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. I'm not any kind of consultant for anybody. I'm an employee of a college. I don't get paid by anyone to sell solutions based on Microsoft products or anyone else's products, and I'm certainly not paid to advocate any particular platform. That's strike three. Thanks for playing. -- Robert Moir, MSMVP Senior IT Systems Engineer, Luton Sixth Form College If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Oooh. I should change my sig. How's this? Martin Blackstone MSMVP Not MCP, MCSENothing else. -Original Message- From: Robert Moir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:18 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 February 2003 14:05 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. Really? What secret direct compensation do I receive? But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. Lets see now. My sig (for the rare occasions I bother to append it): -- Robert Moir, MSMVP Senior IT Systems Engineer, Luton Sixth Form College Dogs have owners, Cats have staff Notice it says MSMVP ? So, that's two strikes and two misses so far. I don't get Secret compensation and I appear to have the word MVP in my sig block. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. I'm not any kind of consultant for anybody. I'm an employee of a college. I don't get paid by anyone to sell solutions based on Microsoft products or anyone else's products, and I'm certainly not paid to advocate any particular platform. That's strike three. Thanks for playing. -- Robert Moir, MSMVP Senior IT Systems Engineer, Luton Sixth Form College If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EX2k SP 3 OWA missing sent items
Since I upgraded to SP3 my users viewing their mailboxes through OWA only see messages in the sent item folder that were actually sent using OWA. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: owa dns
where is the zone file for the delegated mail.phytoceutica.com subdomain? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Liddil Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:57 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: owa dns I get the following. I assume I need to create an A record but if I try to create one called mail.phytoceutica.com I can not. Perioeds don't appear. What am I doing wrong here? nslookup mail.phytoceutica.com Server: nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com Address: 192.168.70.10 *** nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com can't find mail.phytoceutica.com: Non-existent domain Jim Liddil _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
owa url
Once upon a time sometime gave me the url syntax to access other folks mailboxes via OWA as admin. Can someone help me out here? Jim Liddil _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: owa url
./exchange/username Alex Gonzalez Sr. Systems Administrator Handleman Company [EMAIL PROTECTED] (248) 362-4400 Ext. 4914 -Original Message- From: James Liddil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:07 AM To: Exchange Discussions Once upon a time sometime gave me the url syntax to access other folks mailboxes via OWA as admin. Can someone help me out here? Jim Liddil _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Trans logs
All the backups being performed are full, and yet the logs are not getting deleted. Where would you start in troubleshooting that problem, the backup system or Exchange? Thanks. Liz Ashraph -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:32 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs There is no such option in backup packages, including NTBACKUP, I've worked with. If you perform a full (normal) or incremental backup, the backup program purges the logs. If you perform a differential or copy backup, the logs are not purged. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of knighTslayer Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:23 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs Your Exchange aware backup product does that. Or you do if you manually do so after a successful off-line backup. If the logs were not purged, then the option to do so wasn't set. knighTslayer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ashraph, Elizabeth A. Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:15 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Trans logs Please forgive me in advance for asking this, but in Ex5.5 who deletes the transaction logs after a full backup, does Exchange or the Exchange aware Backup software (like Veritas). Has anyone seen cases where backups are successful but the logs don't get purged, what might cause this. Thanks. Liz Ashraph [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Trans logs
Check the backup logs. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ashraph, Elizabeth A. Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:16 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs All the backups being performed are full, and yet the logs are not getting deleted. Where would you start in troubleshooting that problem, the backup system or Exchange? Thanks. Liz Ashraph -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:32 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs There is no such option in backup packages, including NTBACKUP, I've worked with. If you perform a full (normal) or incremental backup, the backup program purges the logs. If you perform a differential or copy backup, the logs are not purged. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of knighTslayer Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:23 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs Your Exchange aware backup product does that. Or you do if you manually do so after a successful off-line backup. If the logs were not purged, then the option to do so wasn't set. knighTslayer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ashraph, Elizabeth A. Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:15 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Trans logs Please forgive me in advance for asking this, but in Ex5.5 who deletes the transaction logs after a full backup, does Exchange or the Exchange aware Backup software (like Veritas). Has anyone seen cases where backups are successful but the logs don't get purged, what might cause this. Thanks. Liz Ashraph [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Trans logs
Take a look at the log directory and make a not of when the logs were created. I've seen instances where it appeared as though logs were not getting purged by backup when in fact they were, but there was a huge amount of data being processed since the backup due to mail looping and a lack of prohibit send/receive. If the logs are all dated after your last backup, then I would diagnose in Exchange, if the logs predate your backup job, then perhaps review your backup configuration. I hope this helps Jim Collins Sr. Systems Engineer Competitive Computing, Inc. www.competitive.com -Original Message- From: Ashraph, Elizabeth A. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:16 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs All the backups being performed are full, and yet the logs are not getting deleted. Where would you start in troubleshooting that problem, the backup system or Exchange? Thanks. Liz Ashraph -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:32 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs There is no such option in backup packages, including NTBACKUP, I've worked with. If you perform a full (normal) or incremental backup, the backup program purges the logs. If you perform a differential or copy backup, the logs are not purged. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of knighTslayer Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:23 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs Your Exchange aware backup product does that. Or you do if you manually do so after a successful off-line backup. If the logs were not purged, then the option to do so wasn't set. knighTslayer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ashraph, Elizabeth A. Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:15 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Trans logs Please forgive me in advance for asking this, but in Ex5.5 who deletes the transaction logs after a full backup, does Exchange or the Exchange aware Backup software (like Veritas). Has anyone seen cases where backups are successful but the logs don't get purged, what might cause this. Thanks. Liz Ashraph [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL
Re: Trans logs
Have you tried a full online backup with NTBACKUP? - Original Message - From: Ashraph, Elizabeth A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:15 AM Subject: RE: Trans logs All the backups being performed are full, and yet the logs are not getting deleted. Where would you start in troubleshooting that problem, the backup system or Exchange? Thanks. Liz Ashraph -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:32 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs There is no such option in backup packages, including NTBACKUP, I've worked with. If you perform a full (normal) or incremental backup, the backup program purges the logs. If you perform a differential or copy backup, the logs are not purged. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of knighTslayer Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:23 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Trans logs Your Exchange aware backup product does that. Or you do if you manually do so after a successful off-line backup. If the logs were not purged, then the option to do so wasn't set. knighTslayer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ashraph, Elizabeth A. Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:15 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Trans logs Please forgive me in advance for asking this, but in Ex5.5 who deletes the transaction logs after a full backup, does Exchange or the Exchange aware Backup software (like Veritas). Has anyone seen cases where backups are successful but the logs don't get purged, what might cause this. Thanks. Liz Ashraph [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Me too. Sounds like we've all been missing out. -Original Message- From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri 07/02/2003 15:24 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
ONU is a great college. I spent many a night/afternoon at the Beagle! You from around the area? Hey Greg I see you are an ONU alumni. How did you like Ada? The beagle? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is=20 unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa=20 about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? =20 Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? =20 -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=3D20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =3D20 =3D20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=3D20 so = whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =3D20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is=20 more=3D20 accurate than your defense thereof. =3D20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =3D20 =3D20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Its a thong with MSFT on the back. - Original Message - From: Robert Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Me too. Sounds like we've all been missing out. -Original Message- From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri 07/02/2003 15:24 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gonna love this...
Well, for better worse, PSTs are the preferred solution for certain
situations here. We have instructions to show the users how to put them
on their home drives, and their care and feeding. So far, it has worked
well.
We did resolve our original problem. Most all of our users' home drives
reside on an EMC Celerra NAS. The Celerra has a nifty feature where you
can use the UNC \\servername\HOME to refer to your home directory (ala
Samba) so that you don't have to create thousands of shares. Our docs
tell the users to create their PST as Y:\user.pst (literally user, not
their userid). Y: is mapped to \\nas\HOME. Running outlook 2002 fat
handles this setup just fine. However, something in the mix of terminal
server, ol2002, and Celerra seems to think that all the
\\nas\HOME\user.pst files are the same file.
We simply changed the users' PST files to be Y:\{userid}.pst. Works like
a charm.
We are seeing a few other minor quirks when using Office XP applications
against files on the NAS. Is anyone else seeing incompatibility issues
when using non-Microsoft SMB servers? We saw no problems whatsoever with
Office 97.
-Original Message-
From: Busby, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:36 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Gonna love this...
We got Citrix here and actively discourage our users from creating
.pst's. (They tend to save them to temporary areas then wonder why all
their mail goes missing when they log off) You could consider using the
disablepst reg hack, but that might give your desktop support team
hassle whenever they want to juggle data around for any reason.
Are you using Exchange 2000 or 5.5? Just curious because
since we went
to 2000 we have had some strange problems with PST's on mapped drives.
-Matt
We are testing Outlook 2002 in Windows 2000/Citrix terminal server
and ran into issues with PST files on the users' mapped home drive.
We opened a PSS call and were told that Microsoft does not support
PST files on mapped drives. The support person then quoted a q
article which basically says that performance of a PST file on a
network drive will not match a local drive (duh...).
Sheesh...
_
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RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
m thong backs -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri 07/02/2003 15:40 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Its a thong with MSFT on the back. - Original Message - From: Robert Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Me too. Sounds like we've all been missing out. -Original Message- From: Martin Blackstone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri 07/02/2003 15:24 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler
RE: owa dns
W2K/AD Environment. First off it is a flat domain one site. The VAR set up the server (NHSERVER)with Forward lookup AD zone as newhaven.phytoceutica.com. They also set up a forward lookup zone of phytoceutica.com and set it as a standard Primary. They then made the second server (COMPUTE) an AD DNS with the secondary primary lookup zone. Good or bad I have changed the phytoceutica.com FLZs to AD. And I have the RLZ with the 192.168.70. If I enter mail.newhaven.phytoceutica.com it works, but not mail.phytoceutica.com. Jim Liddil -Original Message- From: Charles Marriott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:43 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: owa dns where is the zone file for the delegated mail.phytoceutica.com subdomain? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Liddil Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:57 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: owa dns I get the following. I assume I need to create an A record but if I try to create one called mail.phytoceutica.com I can not. Perioeds don't appear. What am I doing wrong here? nslookup mail.phytoceutica.com Server: nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com Address: 192.168.70.10 *** nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com can't find mail.phytoceutica.com: Non-existent domain Jim Liddil _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Domain used by Spammers
For the last few weeks I have been plagued by what I had originally considered to be spam attacks. These were showing up as NDR's which I have forwarded to my own mailbox for review. They were always some nonexistent random alphanumeric user i.e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] . This morning I had over one hundred of them so decided to investigate further and see if there was way to screen them out. As it turns out, these are not emails being sent to me, but rather someone is spamming using these random alphanumeric in the From field and the NDR's are coming back to me from whoever is in the To field. I re-tested my own exchange server to ensure that they were not relaying of the Exchange server. I then telneted to my personal attbi.com mail server and sent and email as a nonexistent user in my domain to a bogus mail address. The attbi.com server promptly sent back and NDR to my domain. I concerned about any implications of getting on any RBL lists. I guess I would equate this to identity theft but have no how to address this serious issue. Thanks -Dave Vantine _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Removing NAV from E2K
Don't worry. Tom scares me on close to a daily basis. -- Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE Sr. Systems Administrator Inovis - Formerly Harbinger and Extricity Atlanta, GA -Original Message- From: Jim Helfer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:09 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Removing NAV from E2K http://tinyurl.com/5gi1 Strangely enough, it was the FIRST LINK when I typed the word uninstall into the (strangely enough) knowledge base at (strangely enough) Symantec. I sometimes look in these crazy places that nobody else would think of. I'm a maverick like that. Stop it. You're scaring me. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Taken from the MVP site FAQ Do Microsoft MVPs receive any payment from Microsoft? No. Microsoft does provide a small award of software, but MVPs do not receive any monetary payment from Microsoft. As its mentioned in the FAQ, I don't think the software stuff is Secret Direct Compensation. Which is what you claimed originally. Do try to keep your story straight between one posting and the next. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri 07/02/2003 15:49 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
You would appear to have issues with the MVP program, and apparently Microsoft as a whole. My personal suggestion would be that you get over yourself. You've been in this forum long enough to know that neither Ed nor Chris is a Microsoft appologist. My personal experiences[1] with both over the last 4 years or so also shows that. -- Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE Sr. Systems Administrator Inovis - Formerly Harbinger and Extricity Atlanta, GA [1] Including a 6 month stint with one of them on contract to my previous employer on one of my projects -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:43 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP, so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more accurate than your defense thereof. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:04 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Well, that was how I took it as well, but he was just doing such a terrible job at it that it was really more just stupid than funny or anything else. I mean, if you are going to go down that path, then make it funny or at least mildly humorous versus coming out of left field with a DOS reference. Yes, you want to take the argument to the extreme to prove a point, but you cannot do it in such a way that your point comes across as invalid. I could just as easily argue the other side and point out how much fun it would be if every hotfix or service pack caused some major component of the OS to change drastically. Let's say that every hotfix from Microsoft changed the way printers were configured such that you had to go out and reconfigure all of the printers on everyone's desktop every time you applied a hotfix. And I hardly think that I am the biggest Microsoft basher on the planet. They have fundamental flaws in their products and the way that they operate as a company. I point out those flaws when I see them. That's it. However, in some circles, any complaint against Microsoft, no matter how insignificant, is deemed heresy. He's probably one of those Microsoft MVP's anyway, so he's on their payroll to be a bigot. I think I get his point, and you don't, so I'll explain it to you. It's that every time you perceive that something doesn't work, Greg, you paint it as a giant Microsoft crusade to ruin your life. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:15 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point was that this is the straw that breaks the camels back. First my application written for DOS 3.22 stops working on Windows X, then they change core OS functionality like the ability to create an Outlook:// shortcut on the desktop. I say it's time to switch to Linux and Samsung Contact. Screw Microsoft and their poor, very poor backwards compatibility. On 2/6/03 7:00, Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly is your point in all of this? To be honest, I can't follow any line of reasoning or an actual point to this post. You seem to be complaining a lot about something, but I am not sure exactly what it is. There's lots of sarcasm in the post, which seems to be a substitute for actual substance. My DOS application worked under Windows 2000 server, but now doesn't under XP. How is that any different than something working under Outlook 97 and not under Outlook 2002[1]? Hell, there's functionality that worked in Outlook 2000 that was stripped out in Outlook 2000 SR1. Damn that Microsoft! Bastards the whole lot of 'em. Stripping out core OS functionality like Outlook object hyperlinks. Ye gods, that's more critical than preemptive multi-tasking! Next thing you know they'll want us all to upgrade to Exchange 2000 and use these uniquely addressable hyperlink thingies and webdav. When will they learn that 640k is enough RAM for anyone? I have no idea what if any syntax will work for your Outlook:// hyperlinks Greg, but thanks for the entertainment. I'd test, but I don't
Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
You mean the I Grock Spock one? - Original Message - From: Schwartz, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:21 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump in a lake. More people need to take this approach and be true consultants, not advocates. Are you saying that your own interpretation of your own attitude is unbiased? Or that your own evaluation of whether or not your paranioa about how Microsoft are out to get you is unbiased? Rob Also an MVP by the way. Want to throw some mud at me too? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: 07 February 2003 11:43 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 And Ed, if I am not mistaken, you are also a Microsoft MVP,=20 so whose interpretation is unbiased, mine or yours? =20 I continue to believe my interpretation of your attitude is more=20 accurate than your defense thereof. =20 Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! =20 =20 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe:
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
You are so wrong that it pains me to even read your e-mail. I've gotten more critical feedback from those folks that are MVP's than most others. Not just generalities that Outlook doesn't have very good backwards compatibility, but why the development team did that and why they think they were wrong. They've said it in public forums as well. Ask a lawyer if they've received anything for free and they'll answer, damn right they have. I'm stunned that you would say that I have no ethics or are you just throwing around generalities in a trollish way? A vendor can give me a shirt, or a coffee mug doesn't mean that I won't call them to the carpet on their product. Just ask ANY of my vendors. If there is something wrong with their product or it doesn't do something I want it to do, then I let them know to fix their BAS. The title of MVP doesn't mean Microsoft pet. It's given to those people that have demonstrated knowledge in the field and a willingness to help others get the most from the product. If Chris or Ed or Missy or the Andy's or Martin or Robert or Tom tells me that something works or doesn't work, I know it's from their belief in what they've seen in the product. Not from something that the vendor told them to say. I've never seen one of them not tell it like it is. I've seen them be more critical of Microsoft than most anyone else. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Viewing messages that are in the queue
This may seem like ridiculous question but I can't seem to find a way to view the messages that are in the IMS outbound queue. Mario Fernandez Network Administrator DataSynapse 632 Broadway 5th Floor New York, NY 10012 tel. (212) 842-8849 fax. (212) 842-8843 [EMAIL PROTECTED] View the DataSynapse e-mail disclaimer here: http://www.datasynapse.com/legal/emailprivacy.jsp _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
And everyone could do everything that they do now in terms of helping people WITHOUT the MVP status. So what is the fascination with it? It is ego or something, it mystifies me. I keep hearing MVP's are so helpful, yadda yadda. But there is nothing stopping you from doing exactly the same things that you are doing WITHOUT being an MVP. Lawyers have actual ethics, written down and agreed to by everyone in the profession and if you violate those ethics, there are consequences, just ask Bill Clinton. There is nothing even close in IT. People may have personal their own personal ethics, but who cares? As long as the IT industry is tied to vendors and tools, it will continue to be polarized and it will continue to be a trade. The MVP program is part of this problem. It is not the entire part, but I think that it is much more insidious than going to a trade show and picking up free stuff, because it is the granting of a title. That, in and of itself is a big problem. You are so wrong that it pains me to even read your e-mail. I've gotten more critical feedback from those folks that are MVP's than most others. Not just generalities that Outlook doesn't have very good backwards compatibility, but why the development team did that and why they think they were wrong. They've said it in public forums as well. Ask a lawyer if they've received anything for free and they'll answer, damn right they have. I'm stunned that you would say that I have no ethics or are you just throwing around generalities in a trollish way? A vendor can give me a shirt, or a coffee mug doesn't mean that I won't call them to the carpet on their product. Just ask ANY of my vendors. If there is something wrong with their product or it doesn't do something I want it to do, then I let them know to fix their BAS. The title of MVP doesn't mean Microsoft pet. It's given to those people that have demonstrated knowledge in the field and a willingness to help others get the most from the product. If Chris or Ed or Missy or the Andy's or Martin or Robert or Tom tells me that something works or doesn't work, I know it's from their belief in what they've seen in the product. Not from something that the vendor told them to say. I've never seen one of them not tell it like it is. I've seen them be more critical of Microsoft than most anyone else. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
I think someone needs a hug. - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:29 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And everyone could do everything that they do now in terms of helping people WITHOUT the MVP status. So what is the fascination with it? It is ego or something, it mystifies me. I keep hearing MVP's are so helpful, yadda yadda. But there is nothing stopping you from doing exactly the same things that you are doing WITHOUT being an MVP. Lawyers have actual ethics, written down and agreed to by everyone in the profession and if you violate those ethics, there are consequences, just ask Bill Clinton. There is nothing even close in IT. People may have personal their own personal ethics, but who cares? As long as the IT industry is tied to vendors and tools, it will continue to be polarized and it will continue to be a trade. The MVP program is part of this problem. It is not the entire part, but I think that it is much more insidious than going to a trade show and picking up free stuff, because it is the granting of a title. That, in and of itself is a big problem. You are so wrong that it pains me to even read your e-mail. I've gotten more critical feedback from those folks that are MVP's than most others. Not just generalities that Outlook doesn't have very good backwards compatibility, but why the development team did that and why they think they were wrong. They've said it in public forums as well. Ask a lawyer if they've received anything for free and they'll answer, damn right they have. I'm stunned that you would say that I have no ethics or are you just throwing around generalities in a trollish way? A vendor can give me a shirt, or a coffee mug doesn't mean that I won't call them to the carpet on their product. Just ask ANY of my vendors. If there is something wrong with their product or it doesn't do something I want it to do, then I let them know to fix their BAS. The title of MVP doesn't mean Microsoft pet. It's given to those people that have demonstrated knowledge in the field and a willingness to help others get the most from the product. If Chris or Ed or Missy or the Andy's or Martin or Robert or Tom tells me that something works or doesn't work, I know it's from their belief in what they've seen in the product. Not from something that the vendor told them to say. I've never seen one of them not tell it like it is. I've seen them be more critical of Microsoft than most anyone else. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
plonk -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:29 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And everyone could do everything that they do now in terms of helping people WITHOUT the MVP status. So what is the fascination with it? It is ego or something, it mystifies me. I keep hearing MVP's are so helpful, yadda yadda. But there is nothing stopping you from doing exactly the same things that you are doing WITHOUT being an MVP. Lawyers have actual ethics, written down and agreed to by everyone in the profession and if you violate those ethics, there are consequences, just ask Bill Clinton. There is nothing even close in IT. People may have personal their own personal ethics, but who cares? As long as the IT industry is tied to vendors and tools, it will continue to be polarized and it will continue to be a trade. The MVP program is part of this problem. It is not the entire part, but I think that it is much more insidious than going to a trade show and picking up free stuff, because it is the granting of a title. That, in and of itself is a big problem. You are so wrong that it pains me to even read your e-mail. I've gotten more critical feedback from those folks that are MVP's than most others. Not just generalities that Outlook doesn't have very good backwards compatibility, but why the development team did that and why they think they were wrong. They've said it in public forums as well. Ask a lawyer if they've received anything for free and they'll answer, damn right they have. I'm stunned that you would say that I have no ethics or are you just throwing around generalities in a trollish way? A vendor can give me a shirt, or a coffee mug doesn't mean that I won't call them to the carpet on their product. Just ask ANY of my vendors. If there is something wrong with their product or it doesn't do something I want it to do, then I let them know to fix their BAS. The title of MVP doesn't mean Microsoft pet. It's given to those people that have demonstrated knowledge in the field and a willingness to help others get the most from the product. If Chris or Ed or Missy or the Andy's or Martin or Robert or Tom tells me that something works or doesn't work, I know it's from their belief in what they've seen in the product. Not from something that the vendor told them to say. I've never seen one of them not tell it like it is. I've seen them be more critical of Microsoft than most anyone else. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
My comment is a reflection of how I perceive your posts. It's a perception that hasn't changed much in the seven-odd years I've read your posts. Again, verbatim, my post was: I think I get his point, and you don't, so I'll explain it to you. It's that every time you perceive that something doesn't work, Greg, you paint it as a giant Microsoft crusade to ruin your life. Nowhere did I suggest that you prostrate yourself or kiss Bill Gates' ring. Greg, a very high percentage of your posts take this attitude. Your comment, and this is a direct quote, I hate all vendors of software tools equally, proves my point. Just about every post you make to this forum displays that you have an axe to grind. Frankly, I find that attitude to be tiresome. Perhaps you should see a professional about that. Or, at least, adopt an attitude that you'll lighten up. (Listen to Sheryl Crow's Soak Up the Sun a hundered times, why not?) At the least, it might make you a tiny bit less insufferable. As to direct compensation, please allow me this opportunity to make a few things clear. 1. Every single post I make to this forum (except on rare occasions where my autosignature doesn't work) I fess up that I am an MVP. Look down. 2. I did not apply to be an MVP. It was something that Microsoft bestowed upon me as a small recognition that I help people in a forum such as this one. As far as I know, the only thing I have to do to stay an MVP is to sign the NDA and continue to help people. 3. You would be silly to assert that MVPs feel that they aren't free to criticize Microsoft's products. Chris Scharff is an MVP. You haven't read my posts on clusters? 4. Any direct compensation I get is in the form of gifts, some of which are tokens, some of which are significant (although personally the nicest gift is one I could pretty much get through my employer anyway), and all of which are appreciated. I have received not one penny in cash compensation directly from Microsoft. I certainly have made a nice several-year career out of working with Microsoft's products, but the same could be said for all MVPs, and for most subscribers to this forum for that matter. I would continue to participate in these forums with or without such recognition from Microsoft. I started my participation before I was recognized, and I participated for quite a while before I ever even knew about the MVP program at all. So it is pure silliness to suggest that I or any other MVP has been bought and paid for by Microsoft. Speaking for myself, my price is far higher than what I get from Microsoft. 5. Nowhere in my NDA, by the way, does it say that the stuff Microsoft gives us is secret. I believe it is published that we get stuff in the MVP web pages (http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/). But wouldn't it be silly for me to add Microsoft gives me some stuff in my autosignature? 6. As to villification, prove your point. I am aware that those who use the unoriginal M$ are villified to the extent that they are cautioned that there are some people on this list that might find that to be offensive. Personally, I don't believe that I've personally ever cautioned people in that way, nor have I taken offense. In this particular case, I commented to you because of your personal attitude. If you recall, you asked what Chris was saying, so I felt it was appropriate to explain it to you. It's not because you're anti-Microsoft, anti-software-vendor, or paranoid, but because you have a particularly tiresome attitude. Greg, the problem is not that people can't criticize Microsoft's products, it's because your posts make you look like a jerk. Look in the mirror. It's YOU. Not me or other MVPs or others on this list. I'm happy for you that you feel proud to have declined Micosoft's offer to be an MVP. I chose to accept it and am proud that I was nominated. I'm sorry that you feel that because it would have made you feel like a whore, that the rest of us are whores because we accepted it. Not everyone thinks like you do. And this community, and the world, is certainly better off because of that. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:05 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Speak for yourself. In my opinion, and as it applies to me, everything you said is bull$hit. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and tool focused and that is a huge problem in IT. It tends to polarize people such that everyone is grouped into two categories, people that hate a particular vendor or tool and people that love a particular vendor or tool. This is just plain stupid. The IT industry has some fundamental problems. Microsoft, as part of that industry suffers from some of the same problems as well as some of their own unique deficiencies. Novell has their own unique issues, so does IBM and so does every other vendor in this space. But it seems that you cannot point out these deficiencies without people categorizing and stereotyping you in one way or another. I reject that. I hate all vendors of software tools equally. I find this an absolute requirement to provide true, unbiased consulting services. If you were to follow my posts on a GroupWise board or a Notes board, you would see me make similar arguments regarding the deficiencies of their products and company. However, since I make most of my revenue from Microsoft products and Exchange, I tend to be more active in that area. And the other thing that REALLY chaps me is people that cast aspersions on others without fessing up to their own biases. MVP's are the worst of this lot. They secretly get direct compensation from Microsoft and then try to pass themselves off as unbiased. But you look at their posts and it is obvious that they are simply paid advocates for Microsoft and part of their responsibility is to vilify anyone that says anything negative with regards to Microsoft. And these are the same people that list every last certification and other acronym that they can paste onto the end of their sig, but you never see Microsoft MVP. I wonder why? Microsoft asked me to become an MVP and I told them to go jump
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
...and some of us worked hard and got it without knowing of its existence. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Martin Blackstone Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:10 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? -Original Message- From: Schwartz, Jim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Yeah. You should see the developers run whenever Chris starts walking towards them. Andy, you forgot to tell me about that direct compensation you get for being an MVP. Unless he's talking about that t-shirt? -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:11 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects lol Thanks for the good laugh. I have found that the harshest critics of Microsoft products are the MVPS themselves. Andy David Microsoft MVP. There, is that better? - Original Message - From: Greg Deckler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects My point is that it serves no useful purpose to cast aspersions as to people's attitudes and motivations because everyone is biased in one way or another. I believe that this is really systemic with regards to the problems of the IT industry as a whole. The entire industry is vendor and
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
You're one to talk about ego! Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Leggo my Eggo! - Original Message - From: Ed Crowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects You're one to talk about ego! Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Look who's talking -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:52 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects You're one to talk about ego! Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Exactly the point I made earlier. I helped people in this forum (when Peter ran it) before I knew anything about the MVP program. I was nominated to be an MVP and only learned what it was from someone who nominated me. I was anointed an MVP (I did not apply for the recognition!) before I knew that I would get some free stuff. And I continue to help people today. Finally, I would probably devote just as much time and offer the same opinions if I were not an MVP. To suggest otherwise is simply a product of your own self-reflection. It's too bad your price is so cheap, Greg. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:29 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And everyone could do everything that they do now in terms of helping people WITHOUT the MVP status. So what is the fascination with it? It is ego or something, it mystifies me. I keep hearing MVP's are so helpful, yadda yadda. But there is nothing stopping you from doing exactly the same things that you are doing WITHOUT being an MVP. Lawyers have actual ethics, written down and agreed to by everyone in the profession and if you violate those ethics, there are consequences, just ask Bill Clinton. There is nothing even close in IT. People may have personal their own personal ethics, but who cares? As long as the IT industry is tied to vendors and tools, it will continue to be polarized and it will continue to be a trade. The MVP program is part of this problem. It is not the entire part, but I think that it is much more insidious than going to a trade show and picking up free stuff, because it is the granting of a title. That, in and of itself is a big problem. You are so wrong that it pains me to even read your e-mail. I've gotten more critical feedback from those folks that are MVP's than most others. Not just generalities that Outlook doesn't have very good backwards compatibility, but why the development team did that and why they think they were wrong. They've said it in public forums as well. Ask a lawyer if they've received anything for free and they'll answer, damn right they have. I'm stunned that you would say that I have no ethics or are you just throwing around generalities in a trollish way? A vendor can give me a shirt, or a coffee mug doesn't mean that I won't call them to the carpet on their product. Just ask ANY of my vendors. If there is something wrong with their product or it doesn't do something I want it to do, then I let them know to fix their BAS. The title of MVP doesn't mean Microsoft pet. It's given to those people that have demonstrated knowledge in the field and a willingness to help others get the most from the product. If Chris or Ed or Missy or the Andy's or Martin or Robert or Tom tells me that something works or doesn't work, I know it's from their belief in what they've seen in the product. Not from something that the vendor told them to say. I've never seen one of them not tell it like it is. I've seen them be more critical of Microsoft than most anyone else. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate?
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
I cant. I'm counting my secret MVP money. -Original Message- From: Andy David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:54 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Leggo my Eggo! - Original Message - From: Ed Crowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects You're one to talk about ego! Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
A. Did little Chris get a snow day off from school? - Original Message - From: Christopher Hummert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:53 AM Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Look who's talking -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:52 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects You're one to talk about ego! Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
In part. I have an ego. Why not? I'm good at what I do and I'm proud of it. Why shouldn't I be? MS comes to me and says Hey, we just want to say thanks for all your work in the public groups. Here is an award. I think that's pretty cool. There are also a number of things I'm not good at. Ill be the first to admit that too. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Titles? Big problem? Nah? My full title is Devine Master of the Entire Universe and I've never had a problem with that. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 February, 2003 17:29 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And everyone could do everything that they do now in terms of helping people WITHOUT the MVP status. So what is the fascination with it? It is ego or something, it mystifies me. I keep hearing MVP's are so helpful, yadda yadda. But there is nothing stopping you from doing exactly the same things that you are doing WITHOUT being an MVP. Lawyers have actual ethics, written down and agreed to by everyone in the profession and if you violate those ethics, there are consequences, just ask Bill Clinton. There is nothing even close in IT. People may have personal their own personal ethics, but who cares? As long as the IT industry is tied to vendors and tools, it will continue to be polarized and it will continue to be a trade. The MVP program is part of this problem. It is not the entire part, but I think that it is much more insidious than going to a trade show and picking up free stuff, because it is the granting of a title. That, in and of itself is a big problem. You are so wrong that it pains me to even read your e-mail. I've gotten more critical feedback from those folks that are MVP's than most others. Not just generalities that Outlook doesn't have very good backwards compatibility, but why the development team did that and why they think they were wrong. They've said it in public forums as well. Ask a lawyer if they've received anything for free and they'll answer, damn right they have. I'm stunned that you would say that I have no ethics or are you just throwing around generalities in a trollish way? A vendor can give me a shirt, or a coffee mug doesn't mean that I won't call them to the carpet on their product. Just ask ANY of my vendors. If there is something wrong with their product or it doesn't do something I want it to do, then I let them know to fix their BAS. The title of MVP doesn't mean Microsoft pet. It's given to those people that have demonstrated knowledge in the field and a willingness to help others get the most from the product. If Chris or Ed or Missy or the Andy's or Martin or Robert or Tom tells me that something works or doesn't work, I know it's from their belief in what they've seen in the product. Not from something that the vendor told them to say. I've never seen one of them not tell it like it is. I've seen them be more critical of Microsoft than most anyone else. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Domain used by Spammers
trace the header ip's to track down the originator and get in contact with the isp? -Original Message- From: Dave Vantine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:57 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Domain used by Spammers For the last few weeks I have been plagued by what I had originally considered to be spam attacks. These were showing up as NDR's which I have forwarded to my own mailbox for review. They were always some nonexistent random alphanumeric user i.e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] . This morning I had over one hundred of them so decided to investigate further and see if there was way to screen them out. As it turns out, these are not emails being sent to me, but rather someone is spamming using these random alphanumeric in the From field and the NDR's are coming back to me from whoever is in the To field. I re-tested my own exchange server to ensure that they were not relaying of the Exchange server. I then telneted to my personal attbi.com mail server and sent and email as a nonexistent user in my domain to a bogus mail address. The attbi.com server promptly sent back and NDR to my domain. I concerned about any implications of getting on any RBL lists. I guess I would equate this to identity theft but have no how to address this serious issue. Thanks -Dave Vantine _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gonna love this...
what does Exchange have to to with PSTs? -Original Message- From: Bailey, Matthew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:55 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Gonna love this... Are you using Exchange 2000 or 5.5? Just curious because since we went to 2000 we have had some strange problems with PST's on mapped drives. -Matt Matthew Bailey LAN Engineer CSK Auto, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: (602) 631-7486 Fax: (602) 294-7486 Chaos reigns within. Reflect, repent, and reboot. Order shall return. -Original Message- From: Ken Cornetet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:52 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Gonna love this... We are testing Outlook 2002 in Windows 2000/Citrix terminal server and ran into issues with PST files on the users' mapped home drive. We opened a PSS call and were told that Microsoft does not support PST files on mapped drives. The support person then quoted a q article which basically says that performance of a PST file on a network drive will not match a local drive (duh...). Sheesh... _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gonna love this...
Do you use outlook? :P Drew Nicholson Technical Writer Network Engineer LAN Manager RapidApp 312-372-7188 (work) 312-543-0008 (cell) Born To Edit -Original Message- From: Andrey Fyodorov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:10 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Gonna love this... what does Exchange have to to with PSTs? -Original Message- From: Bailey, Matthew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:55 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Gonna love this... Are you using Exchange 2000 or 5.5? Just curious because since we went to 2000 we have had some strange problems with PST's on mapped drives. -Matt Matthew Bailey LAN Engineer CSK Auto, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: (602) 631-7486 Fax: (602) 294-7486 Chaos reigns within. Reflect, repent, and reboot. Order shall return. -Original Message- From: Ken Cornetet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:52 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Gonna love this... We are testing Outlook 2002 in Windows 2000/Citrix terminal server and ran into issues with PST files on the users' mapped home drive. We opened a PSS call and were told that Microsoft does not support PST files on mapped drives. The support person then quoted a q article which basically says that performance of a PST file on a network drive will not match a local drive (duh...). Sheesh... _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: owa dns
Well, it isn't a flat domain because you are not root. :-) com delegated phytoceutica.com and the admin of phytoceutica.com apparently delegated newhaven but not mail. Looks like newhaven delegated mail. I'm not sure what a secondary primary is. You can only have Fwd ADI, Primary, and/or Secondary and in-addr.arpa zones afaik. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Liddil Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:56 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: owa dns W2K/AD Environment. First off it is a flat domain one site. The VAR set up the server (NHSERVER)with Forward lookup AD zone as newhaven.phytoceutica.com. They also set up a forward lookup zone of phytoceutica.com and set it as a standard Primary. They then made the second server (COMPUTE) an AD DNS with the secondary primary lookup zone. Good or bad I have changed the phytoceutica.com FLZs to AD. And I have the RLZ with the 192.168.70. If I enter mail.newhaven.phytoceutica.com it works, but not mail.phytoceutica.com. Jim Liddil -Original Message- From: Charles Marriott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:43 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: owa dns where is the zone file for the delegated mail.phytoceutica.com subdomain? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Liddil Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:57 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: owa dns I get the following. I assume I need to create an A record but if I try to create one called mail.phytoceutica.com I can not. Perioeds don't appear. What am I doing wrong here? nslookup mail.phytoceutica.com Server: nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com Address: 192.168.70.10 *** nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com can't find mail.phytoceutica.com: Non-existent domain Jim Liddil _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gonna love this...
An alternate delivery location from the message store. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:10 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Gonna love this... what does Exchange have to to with PSTs? -Original Message- From: Bailey, Matthew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:55 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Gonna love this... Are you using Exchange 2000 or 5.5? Just curious because since we went to 2000 we have had some strange problems with PST's on mapped drives. -Matt Matthew Bailey LAN Engineer CSK Auto, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: (602) 631-7486 Fax: (602) 294-7486 Chaos reigns within. Reflect, repent, and reboot. Order shall return. -Original Message- From: Ken Cornetet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 2:52 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Gonna love this... We are testing Outlook 2002 in Windows 2000/Citrix terminal server and ran into issues with PST files on the users' mapped home drive. We opened a PSS call and were told that Microsoft does not support PST files on mapped drives. The support person then quoted a q article which basically says that performance of a PST file on a network drive will not match a local drive (duh...). Sheesh... _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Nor have I. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of McCarthy, Eugene (AFIT) Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:05 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Titles? Big problem? Nah? My full title is Devine Master of the Entire Universe and I've never had a problem with that. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 February, 2003 17:29 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects And everyone could do everything that they do now in terms of helping people WITHOUT the MVP status. So what is the fascination with it? It is ego or something, it mystifies me. I keep hearing MVP's are so helpful, yadda yadda. But there is nothing stopping you from doing exactly the same things that you are doing WITHOUT being an MVP. Lawyers have actual ethics, written down and agreed to by everyone in the profession and if you violate those ethics, there are consequences, just ask Bill Clinton. There is nothing even close in IT. People may have personal their own personal ethics, but who cares? As long as the IT industry is tied to vendors and tools, it will continue to be polarized and it will continue to be a trade. The MVP program is part of this problem. It is not the entire part, but I think that it is much more insidious than going to a trade show and picking up free stuff, because it is the granting of a title. That, in and of itself is a big problem. You are so wrong that it pains me to even read your e-mail. I've gotten more critical feedback from those folks that are MVP's than most others. Not just generalities that Outlook doesn't have very good backwards compatibility, but why the development team did that and why they think they were wrong. They've said it in public forums as well. Ask a lawyer if they've received anything for free and they'll answer, damn right they have. I'm stunned that you would say that I have no ethics or are you just throwing around generalities in a trollish way? A vendor can give me a shirt, or a coffee mug doesn't mean that I won't call them to the carpet on their product. Just ask ANY of my vendors. If there is something wrong with their product or it doesn't do something I want it to do, then I let them know to fix their BAS. The title of MVP doesn't mean Microsoft pet. It's given to those people that have demonstrated knowledge in the field and a willingness to help others get the most from the product. If Chris or Ed or Missy or the Andy's or Martin or Robert or Tom tells me that something works or doesn't work, I know it's from their belief in what they've seen in the product. Not from something that the vendor told them to say. I've never seen one of them not tell it like it is. I've seen them be more critical of Microsoft than most anyone else. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:50 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. In IT, it is a different story and the difference is because IT is a trade and lawyers are professionals. As long as we in IT continue to operate in this mode, we will be seen as trades-people, the air-conditioning repair guy or plumber, not professionals. The MVP program is a horrible, horrible insidious device that will help keep IT at the trade level. Plus, once you accept the title, you are now the property of the vendor. You will consciously or unconsciously have a bias toward that vendor and keeping that title. This means that you will not tell it like it is in public and instead voice concerns in private to your vendor. If you all want to be trades-people instead of professionals, then keep on with your MVP program. I tend to believe that the entire IT industry is irrevocably broken. Compare it to engineers, lawyers and other professionals and it does not stack up well. And that is sad, because we could be professional, but we have no ethics. I'm very interested to know what secret compensation he is speaking of. Deckler, care to elaborate? _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
What, can't find any porn sites to download from just now? Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Christopher Hummert Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:53 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Look who's talking -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:52 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects You're one to talk about ego! Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:22 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects But you could do all that and NOT be an MVP. So why do you cherish it so? Is it ego? Oh please. I have things from vendors all over my desk. F5, Zones, Quest, Printer Ribbons Plus, MS, Dell, Compaq, Jack in the Box, etc. None of this stuff had nothing to do with being an MVP. I also don't do business with all those vendors. If you think I am going to be influenced by a 2.00 stuffed animal with a logo on it when I go to spend $10K or more, you are insane. People work hard to get that MVP and they work hard to keep it. We give of our own free time to help others who may not have the skill level or the knowledge to help themselves yet. Its help and training for them. If I can help someone shut down their open relay or stop virus's, I am helping myself in the long run. It is also VERY educational. My company reaps those rewards and encourages me to continue doing what I do. I'm not sure where you work, but where I work I am treated as a professional. It wasn't always like that here. I was shunned when I first started here because of their experience with past IT people. I earned their trust every step of the way. Now I am consulted on all levels and my work carries heavy weight here. One reason is because I am ethical. I stand by word and my word is golden. The other reason is because I am a professional. I give them honest, insightful an thoughtful opinions and responses. I also listen. I am open to ideas of others. I work for an MS centric shop. It was like that before I got here and it will be like that long after I am gone. But you cant do everything on MS products. If there is something that cant be done via MS, we find other products that may do the job. It doesn't have to be The MS way or the highway regardless of what you may think. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Haiku Friday (WAS: Shortcuts to Outlook objects)
Thread quickly lengthens The snow falls, deep on 9th Street BBQ time, Deaned. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox
Don't trivialize the question. I have seen where users' Outlook sessions are active on an Exchange 5.5 server, and their mailbox is moved to Exchange 2000, the Exchange 5.5 mailbox stays or is recreated. This, of course, causes problems because Exchange 5.5 mail continues to get routed to the old mailbox. It's pretty important to block logons when using a move mailbox migration strategy from 5.5 to 2000. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Edgington, Jeff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:44 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox When the mailbox is being moved, the user won't be able to logon anyway. Matter of fact it will be a few minutes after the move is complete before they regain access to the mailbox... if you're not liking this.. then Ed has the better option... don't let them into the subnet that the exchange boxes are on. -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:35 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Better to disconnect them from the network on which the clients reside. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:12 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Move them at 3 AM. On 2/6/03 17:48, Microsoft Exchange List Server [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MSX2000+SP3 1 forest Do we have any Qarticle explaining how to prevent logon during an exchage 2000 move mailbox process? I have tried the article below it does work for msx2000 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;218920 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Viewing messages that are in the queue
Assuming EX55, you can always use a text editor to view the files in \exchsrvr\imcdata\out. -Peter -Original Message- From: Mario Fernandez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:26 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Viewing messages that are in the queue This may seem like ridiculous question but I can't seem to find a way to view the messages that are in the IMS outbound queue. Mario Fernandez Network Administrator DataSynapse 632 Broadway 5th Floor New York, NY 10012 tel. (212) 842-8849 fax. (212) 842-8843 [EMAIL PROTECTED] View the DataSynapse e-mail disclaimer here: http://www.datasynapse.com/legal/emailprivacy.jsp _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ This message is private or privileged. If you are not the person for whom this message is intended, please delete it and notify me immediately, and please do not copy or send this message to anyone else. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox
Another thing you may want to consider when moving 5.5 mailboxes to 2000: stop the pertinent ADC connection agreement. There is a race condition possible which can cause AD to forget that the mailbox was moved. You can start it again after the move. -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:27 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Don't trivialize the question. I have seen where users' Outlook sessions are active on an Exchange 5.5 server, and their mailbox is moved to Exchange 2000, the Exchange 5.5 mailbox stays or is recreated. This, of course, causes problems because Exchange 5.5 mail continues to get routed to the old mailbox. It's pretty important to block logons when using a move mailbox migration strategy from 5.5 to 2000. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Edgington, Jeff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:44 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox When the mailbox is being moved, the user won't be able to logon anyway. Matter of fact it will be a few minutes after the move is complete before they regain access to the mailbox... if you're not liking this.. then Ed has the better option... don't let them into the subnet that the exchange boxes are on. -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:35 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Better to disconnect them from the network on which the clients reside. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:12 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Move them at 3 AM. On 2/6/03 17:48, Microsoft Exchange List Server [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MSX2000+SP3 1 forest Do we have any Qarticle explaining how to prevent logon during an exchage 2000 move mailbox process? I have tried the article below it does work for msx2000 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;218920 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox
We just went through a large mailbox move of over 900 users. I just broke them off by department and did them at night. Took me a week, but it didn't impact any business. I don't know if your situation is such where you could do that but I liked doing it that way. That way you don't even have to worry about them logging on and it's totally seamless. They just open Outlook up in the morning and nothing has changed. Alex Gonzalez Sr. Systems Administrator Handleman Company [EMAIL PROTECTED] (248) 362-4400 Ext. 4914 -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:27 PM To: Exchange Discussions Don't trivialize the question. I have seen where users' Outlook sessions are active on an Exchange 5.5 server, and their mailbox is moved to Exchange 2000, the Exchange 5.5 mailbox stays or is recreated. This, of course, causes problems because Exchange 5.5 mail continues to get routed to the old mailbox. It's pretty important to block logons when using a move mailbox migration strategy from 5.5 to 2000. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Edgington, Jeff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:44 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox When the mailbox is being moved, the user won't be able to logon anyway. Matter of fact it will be a few minutes after the move is complete before they regain access to the mailbox... if you're not liking this.. then Ed has the better option... don't let them into the subnet that the exchange boxes are on. -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:35 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Better to disconnect them from the network on which the clients reside. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:12 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Move them at 3 AM. On 2/6/03 17:48, Microsoft Exchange List Server [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MSX2000+SP3 1 forest Do we have any Qarticle explaining how to prevent logon during an exchage 2000 move mailbox process? I have tried the article below it does work for msx2000 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;218920 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Viewing messages that are in the queue
Thanks Mario Fernandez Network Administrator DataSynapse 632 Broadway 5th Floor New York, NY 10012 tel. (212) 842-8849 fax. (212) 842-8843 [EMAIL PROTECTED] View the DataSynapse e-mail disclaimer here: http://www.datasynapse.com/legal/emailprivacy.jsp -Original Message- From: Durkee, Peter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:32 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Viewing messages that are in the queue Assuming EX55, you can always use a text editor to view the files in \exchsrvr\imcdata\out. -Peter -Original Message- From: Mario Fernandez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:26 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Viewing messages that are in the queue This may seem like ridiculous question but I can't seem to find a way to view the messages that are in the IMS outbound queue. Mario Fernandez Network Administrator DataSynapse 632 Broadway 5th Floor New York, NY 10012 tel. (212) 842-8849 fax. (212) 842-8843 [EMAIL PROTECTED] View the DataSynapse e-mail disclaimer here: http://www.datasynapse.com/legal/emailprivacy.jsp _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ This message is private or privileged. If you are not the person for whom this message is intended, please delete it and notify me immediately, and please do not copy or send this message to anyone else. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
You're missing the point Ed. Any form of compensation is a conflict of interest. Period. I made an off-hand reference that it is too bad that Microsoft continually changes core functionality like the operation of URL's and shortcuts and got a bunch of sarcasm and static back about hating Microsoft and Microsoft is evil. I fail to see how that makes me a jerk, but then again, I do not really care about people's perceptions in that regard. The discussion is not being advanced in any regard. The view that I have is that the IT industry's focus on vendors and tools will keep the IT industry from becoming a profession. And, accepting any form of compensation is a fundamental conflict of interest. In all of the posts, nothing refutes theses points. The term hate all vendors equally is a just that, a term. It means that I do not accept anything from vendors and call things like I see them regardless of consequences. It is not my fault that Microsoft, like every other software vendor out there, does so many things wrong. Microsoft has a whole raft of advocates and a billion dollar marketing budget to promote their story. How is it that pointing out their flaws could possibly put a dent in any of that? It doesn't, but people should be made aware of those flaws. People should get the bad with the good, always. I could sit down and author a thousand emails on what Microsoft does right, but how would that do anything to fix all of the things they do wrong? If you do certain things right, that's great, now, let's talk about what you do wrong and fix it. Seems like a better way to go. What is the converse of changing how URL's and shortcuts function without providing backwards compatibility? Reference the printer example. How is this a good thing that software vendors can provide abysmal backwards compatibility? Where is the argument against providing backwards compatibility? Other vendors in this space do it without sacrificing functionality. This is a core failing of Microsoft, they simply expect people to continue to upgrade and upgrade and upgrade and shoulder the cost of poor backwards compatiblity without thought to the costs that they are forcing their customers. Microsoft is so blind to it that they cannot understand the industry's facination with Linux and Microsoft alternatives. I will state for the record that this is the source of much of the hard feelings towards Microsoft in the IT industry. It is the root cause of much of these feelings. We are big, you rely on our products and we can make your lives miserable but you still need us so deal with it. I'm not saying these are my views, but I am not blind to it and I can see the point. Novell, as a whole, does an much better job of backwards compatibility. This is not an endorsement, but it explains why many Novell people are very loyal. Novell has made their lives easier by bending over backwards at times to supply backwards compatibility. I have done GroupWise upgrades and I have done Notes upgrades and I have done Exchange upgrades. As a whole, GroupWise versions are much better at backwards compatibility and that translates through to many of Novell's products. I understand that I will get back a torrent of specific examples with regards to where Novell failed in this, but I am talking in terms of Novell and Microsoft as a whole, not specific examples. Why can't people openly discuss these issues intelligently without being branded a Microsoft basher, getting static or receiving sarcasm? My comment is a reflection of how I perceive your posts. It's a perception that hasn't changed much in the seven-odd years I've read your posts. Again, verbatim, my post was: I think I get his point, and you don't, so I'll explain it to you. It's that every time you perceive that something doesn't work, Greg, you paint it as a giant Microsoft crusade to ruin your life. Nowhere did I suggest that you prostrate yourself or kiss Bill Gates' ring. Greg, a very high percentage of your posts take this attitude. Your comment, and this is a direct quote, I hate all vendors of software tools equally, proves my point. Just about every post you make to this forum displays that you have an axe to grind. Frankly, I find that attitude to be tiresome. Perhaps you should see a professional about that. Or, at least, adopt an attitude that you'll lighten up. (Listen to Sheryl Crow's Soak Up the Sun a hundered times, why not?) At the least, it might make you a tiny bit less insufferable. As to direct compensation, please allow me this opportunity to make a few things clear. 1. Every single post I make to this forum (except on rare occasions where my autosignature doesn't work) I fess up that I am an MVP. Look down. 2. I did not apply to be an MVP. It was something that Microsoft bestowed upon me as a small recognition that I help people in a forum such as this one. As far as I know, the only thing I have to do to stay an MVP is to
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
-Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:55 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects You're missing the point Ed. Any form of compensation is a conflict of interest. Period. Nice absolute statement there, but this isn't an absolute subject. I've had a pink squeezie pig with a Motorola logo on my monitor for six years now. Sometimes I bounce it against the wall to help me think. But no-one accuses me of being a Motorola apologist, and I've bought a sum total of $0 worth of Motorola kit in that time. As for that making us tradespeople and not professionals, have a look around your doctor's office next time you go there. The discussion is not being advanced in any regard. The view that I have is that the IT industry's focus on vendors and tools will keep the IT industry from becoming a profession. What on earth is that supposed to mean? Is there a ISO9001 definition of profession that the IT industry has failed to apply for? Some people who work in the IT field can indeed be seen as tradespeople, others as professionals - the guy who assembles PCs on the line versus Michael Dell, for example. But if you try to tell a CTO with an MBA that he's not in a profession s/he will most likely still be laughing by the time the security people have carried you out of the bulding. And, accepting any form of compensation is a fundamental conflict of interest. Sure it is. That's why Congresspeople, doctors, lawyers, or architects aren't allowed to do it. Oops, they all are, aren't they? Just usually there is a limit on it. In all of the posts, nothing refutes theses points. I hope I've rectified that. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Undeliverable Reattempt Period at SMTP Gateway
A survey: How many days to you have your smtp gateway servers (wexchsrvr or otherwise) set to reattempt delivery of messages to unreachable hosts? Tim. x3683 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the requirements. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they are answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct and enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the military's justice system. We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for free. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners have no such ethical constraints. Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a conflict of interest. Some of these industries are more lax than others. Look at the medical industry and how drug reps are viewed treated. Then compare that with IT's views on vendors. The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:55 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects You're missing the point Ed. Any form of compensation is a conflict of interest. Period. Nice absolute statement there, but this isn't an absolute subject. I've had a pink squeezie pig with a Motorola logo on my monitor for six years now. Sometimes I bounce it against the wall to help me think. But no-one accuses me of being a Motorola apologist, and I've bought a sum total of $0 worth of Motorola kit in that time. As for that making us tradespeople and not professionals, have a look around your doctor's office next time you go there. The discussion is not being advanced in any regard. The view that I have is that the IT industry's focus on vendors and tools will keep the IT industry from becoming a profession. What on earth is that supposed to mean? Is there a ISO9001 definition of profession that the IT industry has failed to apply for? Some people who work in the IT field can indeed be seen as tradespeople, others as professionals - the guy who assembles PCs on the line versus Michael Dell, for example. But if you try to tell a CTO with an MBA that he's not in a profession s/he will most likely still be laughing by the time the security people have carried you out of the bulding. And, accepting any form of compensation is a fundamental conflict of interest. Sure it is. That's why Congresspeople, doctors, lawyers, or architects aren't allowed to do it. Oops, they all are, aren't they? Just usually there is a limit on it. In all of the posts, nothing refutes theses points. I hope I've rectified that. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: owa dns
You are right. :-) I miss typed, it was a secondary, period. It is now AD. So I am a few watts short on fully understanding DNS. I have two AD FLZs under NHSERVER. newhaven.phytoceutica.com and phytoceutica.com. Are you suggesting I also make a zone called mail.phytoceutica.com? Jim -Original Message- From: Charles Marriott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:22 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: owa dns Well, it isn't a flat domain because you are not root. :-) com delegated phytoceutica.com and the admin of phytoceutica.com apparently delegated newhaven but not mail. Looks like newhaven delegated mail. I'm not sure what a secondary primary is. You can only have Fwd ADI, Primary, and/or Secondary and in-addr.arpa zones afaik. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Liddil Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:56 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: owa dns W2K/AD Environment. First off it is a flat domain one site. The VAR set up the server (NHSERVER)with Forward lookup AD zone as newhaven.phytoceutica.com. They also set up a forward lookup zone of phytoceutica.com and set it as a standard Primary. They then made the second server (COMPUTE) an AD DNS with the secondary primary lookup zone. Good or bad I have changed the phytoceutica.com FLZs to AD. And I have the RLZ with the 192.168.70. If I enter mail.newhaven.phytoceutica.com it works, but not mail.phytoceutica.com. Jim Liddil -Original Message- From: Charles Marriott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:43 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: owa dns where is the zone file for the delegated mail.phytoceutica.com subdomain? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Liddil Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:57 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: owa dns I get the following. I assume I need to create an A record but if I try to create one called mail.phytoceutica.com I can not. Perioeds don't appear. What am I doing wrong here? nslookup mail.phytoceutica.com Server: nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com Address: 192.168.70.10 *** nhserver.newhaven.phytoceutica.com can't find mail.phytoceutica.com: Non-existent domain Jim Liddil _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a broken installation of $technology for x period of time. I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the requirements. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they are answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct and enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the military's justice system. We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for free. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners have no such ethical constraints. Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a conflict of interest. Some of these industries are more lax than others. Look at the medical industry and how drug reps are viewed treated. Then compare that with IT's views on vendors. The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox
Mailboxes can be moved while the user has them opened; neither the server push, pulling, or driving the move will complain, nor will the Outlook client. Bottom line, for issue-free movement of mailboxes, null the PriNTacct prior to moving the mailbox. MS recommends the user be prevented from accessing their mbx prior to the move, but does not state it must be done. The business of moving-a-mbx-while-the-user-is-logged-in vs. moving it w/o a PriNTacct association seemed worthy of testing. I investigated this for a couple hours back on exchsrvr5 with a few of easy tests using mbxs Mail Storm. The results were mixed (I have a results matrix of the test someplace). Bottom line: utter intermittency across the board and no consistency of retests. In most cases, mbxs moved with the user logged in moved w/o incident; but there where instances where messages sent to the moved mbx NDR'd. The mbx DN seemed to be the source of problems. I thought setting the tombstone to 1 day might have some positive effect, but it didn't matter. Tim. x3683 -Original Message- From: Edgington, Jeff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:44 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox When the mailbox is being moved, the user won't be able to logon anyway. Matter of fact it will be a few minutes after the move is complete before they regain access to the mailbox... if you're not liking this.. then Ed has the better option... don't let them into the subnet that the exchange boxes are on. -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:35 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Better to disconnect them from the network on which the clients reside. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP kcCC+I Tech Consultant hp Services Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:12 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: Re: how to prevent logon during move mailbox Move them at 3 AM. On 2/6/03 17:48, Microsoft Exchange List Server [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MSX2000+SP3 1 forest Do we have any Qarticle explaining how to prevent logon during an exchage 2000 move mailbox process? I have tried the article below it does work for msx2000 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;218920 _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having = an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a = lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the = requirements. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they = are answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct = and enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the military's justice system. We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for free. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners have no such ethical constraints. Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a conflict of interest. Some of these industries are more lax than others. Look at the medical industry and how drug reps are viewed treated. Then compare that with IT's views on vendors. The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Greg Deckler wrote: So, you are going to tell me that you have never received any sort of compensation at all for being an MVP. I am talking T-Shirts, plastic toys, anything and even the TITLE of MVP. If you receive ANY FORM OF COMPENSATION, it is a conflict of interest. Plain and simple. Ask any lawyer if they are allowed to accept ANYTHING for free. The answer is absolutely not. You should have quit when you were behind. No you're just having a paranoid rant. Jim Helfer _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
rant I'm sorry, but I have to finally step in here and add my $.02 worth. You state and I quote: Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects...The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. What a crock of $H!T! It is COMMON practice, for drug reps to leave piles of free samples with every doctor they visit. Doctors are then able to let patients try different brands/different types or strengths of medicines in order to see what works for them, without what can sometimes be HUGE out-of-pocket expenses to the patient, for a product that doesn't work for them. It also keeps the doctors from having to fight with an HMO over paying for a prescription, until such time as they know for sure which one works. As Bill Cosby would say, Grab a Coke and a smile and go buy a clue somewhere. IT people can be viewed as a Professionals instead of craftpeople, anytime they want by simply following a few simple rules: 1. Dress professionally. For guys, this means slacks, dress shoes and a button-down, collared shirt...maybe with a tie. It does NOT mean raggedy, holey jeans/shorts with stained T-shirts and sandals. For women, it means slacks, dresses or a professional length skirt nice blouse and dress shoes. It does NOT mean mini-skirts, flip-flops, short-shorts and blouses that expose all their cleavage. 2. Know your product, make an INFORMED decision and consider all your options, before opening your mouth in front of management or outside of your own IT group. Your status as a Professional will be greatly enhanced and your opinions will carry much more weight, if your work and your advice stand up to the test of time. 3. Don't go out partying / socializing in public with your management or subordinates. Keep work at work and your social life separate. There is nothing that will damage a person's professional reputation in the company they work for faster, than to go out and get drunk and rowdy with their boss and everyone else in the company. Some of the biggest problems in companies are caused when former co-workers get promoted up the management chain, they still go out partying together and then the subordinates expect special treatment from their buddy. I have met almost every single one of the people that have taken the time to participate in this discussion. Every single one of them in my opinion, displays the utmost in Professionalism and represents our industry VERY well. I could have a discussion about any IT-related topic I wanted to and this group of people would be the FIRST ones to propose changes to my configuration or propose alternate Non-MS related solutions to my problem. They do what it takes to get the job done. Most of them are my what I strive to emulate professionally, because they follow the rules I've outlined above (well, except for Andy. He does tend to get a tad bit rowdy now and then...but he's a lot of fun anyway. :0P ) and are respected by their peers because of it. I'd say that if you don't view yourself as a Professional, it's because of your attitude or because of a shortcoming of your own...not theirs. /rant -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:30 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the requirements. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they are answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct and enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the military's justice system. We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for free. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners have no such ethical constraints. Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a conflict of interest. Some of these industries are more lax than others. Look at the medical industry and how
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
-Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:30 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. So where is the line drawn? You had said Any form of compensation is a conflict of interest. But squeezie pigs are unquestionably a form of compensation. So are free lunches from vendors, or free drinks at MEC, or the title of MVP. Are some squeezie pigs more equal than others? There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. I've always thought that the W3C did a good job of that, but please note that I have not yet accepted your proposition that there is an IT industry, at least insofar as you seem to mean it. I work in the finance industry right now and I am beholden to follow the rules and regulations of the NCUA. I was in the insurance industry for a while and the medical industry before then. Mayhap the IT vendors need to get together and form a governing professional body, but in my case at least the rules and regulations of my employers have been sufficient to keep me on the straight and narrow. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the requirements. Oh, well that's all right then. Doctors, lawyers, accountants, and engineers aren't professionals. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they are answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct and enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the military's justice system. I always thought it was because they had nuclear weapons. We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for free. So, here is a gift that they cannot accept. Does that mean that they cannot accept any gifts? That specific case doesn't expand to a general rule. Anyway, they're not a real profession. Just the people with depleted uranium are. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners have no such ethical constraints. You are confusing ethics with rules of professional conduct here. Whether they have ethical restraints is moot. Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a conflict of interest. Once again, here is the point that you seem to be missing. SOME gifts are seen as conflicts of interest. Others are not. Should we look at the American Bar Association's /Lawyers' Manual on Professional Conduct/? Section 51 deals with gifts in great detail, setting out guidelines for which might be acceptable and which might not. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery Yet another absolute statement, that is absolutely wrong. Here's a word that will help you fix it: some Some of these industries are more lax than others. Look at the medical industry and how drug reps are viewed treated. Then compare that with IT's views on vendors. The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. The AMA, the governing body of the medical profession, says: Any gifts accepted by physicians individually should primarily entail a benefit to patients and should not be of substantial value. (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/article/4001-4236.html) The AMA suggests in its guidelines that drug samples should be given to patients first, family second, but it certainly does not say that giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem So let's review: In some fields, receiving gifts that are of certain types or are above certain values from vendors is not permitted. This includes the field in which I am employed (Credit Unions) and the one in which certain MVPs are employed (Cheesebucketing). This is not the same as And, accepting any form of compensation is a fundamental conflict of interest. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:55 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Everthing in IT is not vendor based. Just off the top of my head A+ Certification SANS GIAC CISSP These are all certifications that are not based on any vendor's products. Dennis Depp -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having = an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a = lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the = requirements. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they = are answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct = and enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the military's justice system. We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for free. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners have no such ethical constraints. Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a conflict of interest. Some of these industries are more lax than others. Look at the medical industry and how drug reps are viewed treated. Then compare that with IT's views on vendors. The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. _ List posting FAQ:
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Not to mention the British Computer Society (of which I am a member) and no doubt countless other professional bodies around the world. -Original Message- From: Dennis Depp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri 07/02/2003 19:36 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Everthing in IT is not vendor based. Just off the top of my head A+ Certification SANS GIAC CISSP These are all certifications that are not based on any vendor's products. Dennis Depp -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having = an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a = lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the = requirements. In terms of their management
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Man. It does not matter how you view yourself, it is a matter of how others perceive you. Military, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. are held in much higher regard in society than the computer guy. Why? The reason this is the case is because these are viewed as professions whereas the computer industry is viewed as a trade. Actually, it really makes no sense to discuss this anymore. Profession vs. trade, go look it up and then compare IT to the other professions I have mentioned. Look at the real differences between these industries. Open your mind a little bit and really look. There are stark differences. The problem is, until the IT industry gets over its fascination with vendors and products (tools). For example, take a hematologist. A hematologist is a specialist in the process of taking blood. A hematoligist is NOT a specialist in this or that needle or syringe. By being a specialist in the PROCESS, they automatically have to be specialists in the tools of their profession. It is a completely different paradigm. Look at how long the IT industry has been around, only several decades. Doctors, lawyers, engineering, etc. have been around for centuries. Who do you think has things figured out, us or them? If we ever want the IT industry to be considered a profession on par with other professions, then we need to take steps to emulate those other professions. Chief among these is getting rid of this fascination with vendors and tools. It is idiotic. You get certified in a tool and a year later that cert is worthless. How about getting certified in email migrations, a process? Learn the process, don't learn the tool. By learning the process, you by definition must learn the tools in order to execute the process. Well, I guess this problem really is systemic to the IT industry and there is quite likely no hope. In a century or two, maybe the IT industry will mature to the point that it can become a true profession. But if this myopia continues, it will never get there. And there are many, many reasons that we, as an industry, should WANT to get there. But until people recognize this issue, we will forever be mired in a trade. rant I'm sorry, but I have to finally step in here and add my $.02 worth. You state and I quote: Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects...The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. What a crock of $H!T! It is COMMON practice, for drug reps to leave piles of free samples with every doctor they visit. Doctors are then able to let patients try different brands/different types or strengths of medicines in order to see what works for them, without what can sometimes be HUGE out-of-pocket expenses to the patient, for a product that doesn't work for them. It also keeps the doctors from having to fight with an HMO over paying for a prescription, until such time as they know for sure which one works. As Bill Cosby would say, Grab a Coke and a smile and go buy a clue somewhere. IT people can be viewed as a Professionals instead of craftpeople, anytime they want by simply following a few simple rules: 1. Dress professionally. For guys, this means slacks, dress shoes and a button-down, collared shirt...maybe with a tie. It does NOT mean raggedy, holey jeans/shorts with stained T-shirts and sandals. For women, it means slacks, dresses or a professional length skirt nice blouse and dress shoes. It does NOT mean mini-skirts, flip-flops, short-shorts and blouses that expose all their cleavage. 2. Know your product, make an INFORMED decision and consider all your options, before opening your mouth in front of management or outside of your own IT group. Your status as a Professional will be greatly enhanced and your opinions will carry much more weight, if your work and your advice stand up to the test of time. 3. Don't go out partying / socializing in public with your management or subordinates. Keep work at work and your social life separate. There is nothing that will damage a person's professional reputation in the company they work for faster, than to go out and get drunk and rowdy with their boss and everyone else in the company. Some of the biggest problems in companies are caused when former co-workers get promoted up the management chain, they still go out partying together and then the subordinates expect special treatment from their buddy. I have met almost every single one of the people that have taken the time to participate in this discussion. Every single one of them in my opinion, displays the utmost in Professionalism and represents our industry VERY well. I could have a discussion about any IT-related topic I wanted to and this group of people would be the FIRST ones to propose changes to my configuration or propose alternate Non-MS related solutions to my problem. They do what it takes to get the job done. Most of them are my what
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
How about the fact that all the professions you mention have been around for hundreds of years? Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:45 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Man. It does not matter how you view yourself, it is a matter of how others perceive you. Military, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. are held in much higher regard in society than the computer guy. Why? The reason this is the case is because these are viewed as professions whereas the computer industry is viewed as a trade. Actually, it really makes no sense to discuss this anymore. Profession vs. trade, go look it up and then compare IT to the other professions I have mentioned. Look at the real differences between these industries. Open your mind a little bit and really look. There are stark differences. The problem is, until the IT industry gets over its fascination with vendors and products (tools). For example, take a hematologist. A hematologist is a specialist in the process of taking blood. A hematoligist is NOT a specialist in this or that needle or syringe. By being a specialist in the PROCESS, they automatically have to be specialists in the tools of their profession. It is a completely different paradigm. Look at how long the IT industry has been around, only several decades. Doctors, lawyers, engineering, etc. have been around for centuries. Who do you think has things figured out, us or them? If we ever want the IT industry to be considered a profession on par with other professions, then we need to take steps to emulate those other professions. Chief among these is getting rid of this fascination with vendors and tools. It is idiotic. You get certified in a tool and a year later that cert is worthless. How about getting certified in email migrations, a process? Learn the process, don't learn the tool. By learning the process, you by definition must learn the tools in order to execute the process. Well, I guess this problem really is systemic to the IT industry and there is quite likely no hope. In a century or two, maybe the IT industry will mature to the point that it can become a true profession. But if this myopia continues, it will never get there. And there are many, many reasons that we, as an industry, should WANT to get there. But until people recognize this issue, we will forever be mired in a trade. rant I'm sorry, but I have to finally step in here and add my $.02 worth. You state and I quote: Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects...The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. What a crock of $H!T! It is COMMON practice, for drug reps to leave piles of free samples with every doctor they visit. Doctors are then able to let patients try different brands/different types or strengths of medicines in order to see what works for them, without what can sometimes be HUGE out-of-pocket expenses to the patient, for a product that doesn't work for them. It also keeps the doctors from having to fight with an HMO over paying for a prescription, until such time as they know for sure which one works. As Bill Cosby would say, Grab a Coke and a smile and go buy a clue somewhere. IT people can be viewed as a Professionals instead of craftpeople, anytime they want by simply following a few simple rules: 1. Dress professionally. For guys, this means slacks, dress shoes and a button-down, collared shirt...maybe with a tie. It does NOT mean raggedy, holey jeans/shorts with stained T-shirts and sandals. For women, it means slacks, dresses or a professional length skirt nice blouse and dress shoes. It does NOT mean mini-skirts, flip-flops, short-shorts and blouses that expose all their cleavage. 2. Know your product, make an INFORMED decision and consider all your options, before opening your mouth in front of management or outside of your own IT group. Your status as a Professional will be greatly enhanced and your opinions will carry much more weight, if your work and your advice stand up to the test of time. 3. Don't go out partying / socializing in public with your management or subordinates. Keep work at work and your social life separate. There is nothing that will damage a person's professional reputation in the company they work for faster, than to go out and get drunk and rowdy with their boss and everyone else in the company. Some of the biggest problems in companies are caused when former co-workers get promoted up the management chain, they still go out partying together and then the subordinates expect special treatment from their buddy. I have met almost every single one of the people that have taken the time to participate in this discussion. Every single one of them in
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having = an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a = lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the = requirements. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they = are answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct = and enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the military's justice system. We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer. -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having = an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a = lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the military is the only profession that truly meets all of the = requirements. In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they = are
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Yes, I said that. Read. How about the fact that all the professions you mention have been around = for hundreds of years? Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:45 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Man. It does not matter how you view yourself, it is a matter of how = others perceive you. Military, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. are = held in much higher regard in society than the computer guy. Why? The = reason this is the case is because these are viewed as professions = whereas the computer industry is viewed as a trade. Actually, it really makes no sense to discuss this anymore. Profession = vs. trade, go look it up and then compare IT to the other professions I = have mentioned. Look at the real differences between these industries. = Open your mind a little bit and really look. There are stark = differences. The problem is, until the IT industry gets over its fascination with = vendors and products (tools). For example, take a hematologist. A = hematologist is a specialist in the process of taking blood. A = hematoligist is NOT a specialist in this or that needle or syringe. By = being a specialist in the PROCESS, they automatically have to be = specialists in the tools of their profession. It is a completely = different paradigm. Look at how long the IT industry has been around, only several decades. = Doctors, lawyers, engineering, etc. have been around for centuries. Who = do you think has things figured out, us or them? If we ever want the IT = industry to be considered a profession on par with other professions, = then we need to take steps to emulate those other professions. Chief = among these is getting rid of this fascination with vendors and tools. = It is idiotic. You get certified in a tool and a year later that cert is = worthless. How about getting certified in email migrations, a process? = Learn the process, don't learn the tool. By learning the process, you by = definition must learn the tools in order to execute the process. Well, I guess this problem really is systemic to the IT industry and = there is quite likely no hope. In a century or two, maybe the IT = industry will mature to the point that it can become a true profession. = But if this myopia continues, it will never get there. And there are = many, many reasons that we, as an industry, should WANT to get there. = But until people recognize this issue, we will forever be mired in a = trade. rant =20 I'm sorry, but I have to finally step in here and add my $.02 worth. =20 You state and I quote: =20 Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects...The difference is stark. = In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem,=20 in IT it is not. =20 What a crock of $H!T! It is COMMON practice, for drug reps to leave=20 piles of free samples with every doctor they visit. Doctors are then=20 able to let patients try different brands/different types or strengths = of medicines in order to see what works for them, without what can=20 sometimes be HUGE out-of-pocket expenses to the patient, for a product = that doesn't work for them. It also keeps the doctors from having to=20 fight with an HMO over paying for a prescription, until such time as=20 they know for sure which one works. =20 As Bill Cosby would say, Grab a Coke and a smile and go buy a clue=20 somewhere. =20 IT people can be viewed as a Professionals instead of craftpeople,=20 anytime they want by simply following a few simple rules: 1. Dress=20 professionally. For guys, this means slacks, dress shoes and a=20 button-down, collared shirt...maybe with a tie. It does NOT mean=20 raggedy, holey jeans/shorts with stained T-shirts and sandals. For=20 women, it means slacks, dresses or a professional length skirt nice=20 blouse and dress shoes. It does NOT mean mini-skirts, flip-flops,=20 short-shorts and blouses that expose all their cleavage. =20 2. Know your product, make an INFORMED decision and consider all your = options, before opening your mouth in front of management or outside=20 of your own IT group. Your status as a Professional will be greatly=20 enhanced and your opinions will carry much more weight, if your work=20 and your advice stand up to the test of time. =20 3. Don't go out partying / socializing in public with your management = or subordinates. Keep work at work and your social life separate. =20 There is nothing that will damage a person's professional reputation=20 in the company they work for faster, than to go out and get drunk and=20 rowdy with their boss and everyone else in the company. Some of the=20 biggest problems in companies are caused when former co-workers get=20 promoted up the management chain, they still
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer. -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having = an independent governing body that defines and enforces the rules and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, lawyers and to a = lesser degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
You really believe thathow many lawyers do you know? Ethics is personal not Professional Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:54 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer. -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having = an
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
ENRON? Aurthur Anderson? These guys have 'ethical' lawyers looking over their shoulder all the time. Thank you, but I prefer to remain a trades-person. Personal integrity cannot be imposed through rules and ritualized conduct. PERIOD! -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:54 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer. -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second. There are very specific
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
You are 100% wrong. They do have a code of ethics. Whether they decide to follow them is up for debate. Regardless you are making broad assumptions. You can say IT has no ethics. While that certainly may be true for you, it isn't for me. Why are you even in IT? You do nothing but talk bad about it. What are you doing to change it? Other than complaining, what have you done to bring about these needed changes? What action have you taken, what groups do you support? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:54 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer. -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Yes! Well said! Kudos to you -Original Message- From: Rachel Pickens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:57 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Personal integrity cannot be imposed through rules and ritualized conduct. PERIOD! -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:54 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer. -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold. -tom -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines. Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There is no relationship implied with the
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
There is no other way to say this except that you are wrong. Lawyers have written-down ethics that they must follow or face the consequences. These ethics are NOT personal, they are the ethics of the profession. Go talk to a lawyer about the difference. You really believe thathow many lawyers do you know? Ethics is personal not Professional Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:54 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a=20 lawyer. =20 -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: = You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in=20 things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers = and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist,=20 Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, = Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk = into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You = could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a=20 profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist=20 to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is = beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. =20 Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in=20 please find something else to do. =20 =20 Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the=20 time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, = PHD or anything. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] =20 =20 -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our=20 industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft=20 certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor=20 gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how=20 the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not=20 based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If = we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people=20 getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not,=20 everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry=20 wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on=20 par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE=20 impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people=20 traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other=20 remedies to cure all your ills. =20 I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the=20 accountability =3D lapse in our profession is because of the paucity = of meaningful =3D credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and = then (potentially) =3D get board-certified in his or her specialty. = Same with medical doctors. =3D Same with psychologists. Aside from = the CCIE program and very few =3D others, the certification process = in=20 our industry is ludicrous and =3D meaningless. As long as built a=20 Quake server in my parents' garage is =3D considered a credential,=20 and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are =3D considered credentials, = the=20 problem will exist. The other problem that =3D goes hand-in-hand = with=20 this is that hiring authorities for some reason =3D believe that = they=20 can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications =3D based upon=20 buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and =3D years = of=20 experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a =3D week = to=20 get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a =3D=20 tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a=20 =3D broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =3D20 =20 I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = =3D objectivity. Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and = =3D probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and=20 shaped =3D in such a way that my coffee gets cold. =20 -tom =20 -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
According to Merriam-Webster, profession and trade are synonyms: Entry Word: profession Function: noun Text: Synonyms TRADE 1, art, calling, craft, handicraft, metier, vocation Seriously, Greg, if you are so disgusted with this profession, why are you still doing it? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:45 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Man. It does not matter how you view yourself, it is a matter of how others perceive you. Military, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. are held in much higher regard in society than the computer guy. Why? The reason this is the case is because these are viewed as professions whereas the computer industry is viewed as a trade. Actually, it really makes no sense to discuss this anymore. Profession vs. trade, go look it up and then compare IT to the other professions I have mentioned. Look at the real differences between these industries. Open your mind a little bit and really look. There are stark differences. The problem is, until the IT industry gets over its fascination with vendors and products (tools). For example, take a hematologist. A hematologist is a specialist in the process of taking blood. A hematoligist is NOT a specialist in this or that needle or syringe. By being a specialist in the PROCESS, they automatically have to be specialists in the tools of their profession. It is a completely different paradigm. Look at how long the IT industry has been around, only several decades. Doctors, lawyers, engineering, etc. have been around for centuries. Who do you think has things figured out, us or them? If we ever want the IT industry to be considered a profession on par with other professions, then we need to take steps to emulate those other professions. Chief among these is getting rid of this fascination with vendors and tools. It is idiotic. You get certified in a tool and a year later that cert is worthless. How about getting certified in email migrations, a process? Learn the process, don't learn the tool. By learning the process, you by definition must learn the tools in order to execute the process. Well, I guess this problem really is systemic to the IT industry and there is quite likely no hope. In a century or two, maybe the IT industry will mature to the point that it can become a true profession. But if this myopia continues, it will never get there. And there are many, many reasons that we, as an industry, should WANT to get there. But until people recognize this issue, we will forever be mired in a trade. rant I'm sorry, but I have to finally step in here and add my $.02 worth. You state and I quote: Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects...The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. What a crock of $H!T! It is COMMON practice, for drug reps to leave piles of free samples with every doctor they visit. Doctors are then able to let patients try different brands/different types or strengths of medicines in order to see what works for them, without what can sometimes be HUGE out-of-pocket expenses to the patient, for a product that doesn't work for them. It also keeps the doctors from having to fight with an HMO over paying for a prescription, until such time as they know for sure which one works. As Bill Cosby would say, Grab a Coke and a smile and go buy a clue somewhere. IT people can be viewed as a Professionals instead of craftpeople, anytime they want by simply following a few simple rules: 1. Dress professionally. For guys, this means slacks, dress shoes and a button-down, collared shirt...maybe with a tie. It does NOT mean raggedy, holey jeans/shorts with stained T-shirts and sandals. For women, it means slacks, dresses or a professional length skirt nice blouse and dress shoes. It does NOT mean mini-skirts, flip-flops, short-shorts and blouses that expose all their cleavage. 2. Know your product, make an INFORMED decision and consider all your options, before opening your mouth in front of management or outside of your own IT group. Your status as a Professional will be greatly enhanced and your opinions will carry much more weight, if your work and your advice stand up to the test of time. 3. Don't go out partying / socializing in public with your management or subordinates. Keep work at work and your social life separate. There is nothing that will damage a person's professional reputation in the company they work for faster, than to go out and get drunk and rowdy with their boss and everyone else in the company. Some of the biggest problems in companies are caused when former co-workers get promoted up the management chain, they still go out partying together and then the subordinates expect special treatment from their buddy. I have met almost every single one of the people that have taken
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Its hard to tell what you are talking about. Every time someone says something you can't refute, you change your arguement slightly. You talk about ethics and yet you throw around wild accusations about others while not even managing to stick to the generally accepted ground rules for debate. Which reminds me: I asked you earlier what Secret Direct Compensation my fellow MVPs and I are supposed to receive from Microsoft. I'm still waiting for my reply. Rob MS MVP. -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri 07/02/2003 19:59 To: Exchange Discussions Cc: Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly the attitude that I am talking about. .+-¦-xm¶ÿà ,Â)Ür¿ë(º· ýì\ öªÙÈb½ë!¶Úÿ 0³ §ÊþÈzÇȱæ«r¬¥:.˱Êâmé[hæ¯yì\ ©àz[,Ã)ärÅÈZËZvh§+-iÙ¢Ì2G(
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
How am I 100% wrong when I said that lawyers have ethics? That's what I said, lawyers have ethics, IT does not. I have my own business that I run the way I think a professional consulting firm should be run, with written ethics. All of my employees must agree to and sign these ethics and if they violate them, they will face consequences. Name me an IT organization with any weight that subscribes to my views and I would join it. I have not found it to date. However, I live this stuff every day. I am working every day to change the IT industry. I think that the way to do this is to create an organization that lives it and that is exactly what I am doing. What are you doing to make the IT industry better? You are 100% wrong. They do have a code of ethics. Whether they decide to follow them is up for debate. Regardless you are making broad assumptions. You can say IT has no ethics. While that certainly may be true for you, it isn't for me. Why are you even in IT? You do nothing but talk bad about it. What are you doing to change it? Other than complaining, what have you done to bring about these needed changes? What action have you taken, what groups do you support? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:54 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer. -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist, Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please find something else to do. Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything. Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all your ills. I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the accountability = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially) = get board-certified in his or her specialty. Same with medical doctors. = Same with psychologists. Aside from the CCIE program and very few = others, the certification process in our industry is ludicrous and = meaningless. As long as built a Quake server in my parents' garage is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist. The other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and = years of experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a = week to
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Oh my GOD! you guy's still beating this dead horse. How does this at this point relate to exchange? let it go I think the snow and cabin fever is getting to you guy's bill -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects There is no other way to say this except that you are wrong. Lawyers have written-down ethics that they must follow or face the consequences. These ethics are NOT personal, they are the ethics of the profession. Go talk to a lawyer about the difference. You really believe thathow many lawyers do you know? Ethics is personal not Professional Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]=20 Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:54 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics. Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a=20 lawyer. =20 -Original Message- From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below: = You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in=20 things like The Purple Pill well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers = and engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist,=20 Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer And to say that Doctors, = Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk = into a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You = could almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a=20 profession. I mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist=20 to be there, if I am having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is = beyond my ability to fix) I want someone more specialized than me. =20 Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in=20 please find something else to do. =20 =20 Joshua Morgan Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the=20 time and $$$ As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, = PHD or anything. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Joshua Morgan Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] =20 =20 -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects =20 =20 This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our=20 industry are based around vendors and their tools. I get Microsoft=20 certified. But that is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor=20 gets certified in The Purple Pill. That's nonsense, but that is how=20 the IT industry works. We get certifications based upon vendors, not=20 based upon the services or processes we provide or our specialties. If = we were to operate more like a profession, we would have people=20 getting certified in Email and Network OS, etc. But we do not,=20 everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our industry=20 wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a profession on=20 par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE=20 impact on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people=20 traveling around in our medicine wagon peddling snake oil and other=20 remedies to cure all your ills. =20 I agree with you, to an extent. However, I believe the=20 accountability =3D lapse in our profession is because of the paucity = of meaningful =3D credentials. An attorney has to pass the bar, and = then (potentially) =3D get board-certified in his or her specialty. = Same with medical doctors. =3D Same with psychologists. Aside from = the CCIE program and very few =3D others, the certification process = in=20 our industry is ludicrous and =3D meaningless. As long as built a=20 Quake server in my parents' garage is =3D considered a credential,=20 and as long as a paper MCSE or CNE are =3D considered credentials, = the=20 problem will exist. The other problem that =3D goes hand-in-hand = with=20 this is that hiring authorities for some reason =3D believe that = they=20 can accurately judge an applicant's qualifications =3D based upon=20 buzzword bingo, meaningless certs papering the wall, and =3D years = of=20 experience. Then they get some monkey that crammed for a =3D week = to=20 get his MCSE, throws around a bunch of lingo that he read in a =3D=20 tech journal in the waiting room, and shared breathing space with a=20 =3D broken installation of $technology for x period of time. =3D20 =20 I
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
I bet I can guess what the subject of the next email I receive from this list will be! -Original Message- From: Parrett, Sue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:04 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects According to Merriam-Webster, profession and trade are synonyms: Entry Word: profession Function: noun Text: Synonyms TRADE 1, art, calling, craft, handicraft, metier, vocation Seriously, Greg, if you are so disgusted with this profession, why are you still doing it? -Original Message- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:45 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects Man. It does not matter how you view yourself, it is a matter of how others perceive you. Military, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. are held in much higher regard in society than the computer guy. Why? The reason this is the case is because these are viewed as professions whereas the computer industry is viewed as a trade. Actually, it really makes no sense to discuss this anymore. Profession vs. trade, go look it up and then compare IT to the other professions I have mentioned. Look at the real differences between these industries. Open your mind a little bit and really look. There are stark differences. The problem is, until the IT industry gets over its fascination with vendors and products (tools). For example, take a hematologist. A hematologist is a specialist in the process of taking blood. A hematoligist is NOT a specialist in this or that needle or syringe. By being a specialist in the PROCESS, they automatically have to be specialists in the tools of their profession. It is a completely different paradigm. Look at how long the IT industry has been around, only several decades. Doctors, lawyers, engineering, etc. have been around for centuries. Who do you think has things figured out, us or them? If we ever want the IT industry to be considered a profession on par with other professions, then we need to take steps to emulate those other professions. Chief among these is getting rid of this fascination with vendors and tools. It is idiotic. You get certified in a tool and a year later that cert is worthless. How about getting certified in email migrations, a process? Learn the process, don't learn the tool. By learning the process, you by definition must learn the tools in order to execute the process. Well, I guess this problem really is systemic to the IT industry and there is quite likely no hope. In a century or two, maybe the IT industry will mature to the point that it can become a true profession. But if this myopia continues, it will never get there. And there are many, many reasons that we, as an industry, should WANT to get there. But until people recognize this issue, we will forever be mired in a trade. rant I'm sorry, but I have to finally step in here and add my $.02 worth. You state and I quote: Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects...The difference is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge problem, in IT it is not. What a crock of $H!T! It is COMMON practice, for drug reps to leave piles of free samples with every doctor they visit. Doctors are then able to let patients try different brands/different types or strengths of medicines in order to see what works for them, without what can sometimes be HUGE out-of-pocket expenses to the patient, for a product that doesn't work for them. It also keeps the doctors from having to fight with an HMO over paying for a prescription, until such time as they know for sure which one works. As Bill Cosby would say, Grab a Coke and a smile and go buy a clue somewhere. IT people can be viewed as a Professionals instead of craftpeople, anytime they want by simply following a few simple rules: 1. Dress professionally. For guys, this means slacks, dress shoes and a button-down, collared shirt...maybe with a tie. It does NOT mean raggedy, holey jeans/shorts with stained T-shirts and sandals. For women, it means slacks, dresses or a professional length skirt nice blouse and dress shoes. It does NOT mean mini-skirts, flip-flops, short-shorts and blouses that expose all their cleavage. 2. Know your product, make an INFORMED decision and consider all your options, before opening your mouth in front of management or outside of your own IT group. Your status as a Professional will be greatly enhanced and your opinions will carry much more weight, if your work and your advice stand up to the test of time. 3. Don't go out partying / socializing in public with your management or subordinates. Keep work at work and your social life separate. There is nothing that will damage a person's professional reputation in the company they work for faster, than to go out and get drunk and rowdy with their boss and everyone else in the
RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
Haven't seen the majority of your messages because they come through like this. SXRzIGhhcmQgdG8gdGVsbCB3aGF0IHlvdSBhcmUgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dC4gRXZlcnkgdGltZSBz b21lb25lIHNheXMgc29tZXRoaW5nIHlvdSBjYW4ndCByZWZ1dGUsIHlvdSBjaGFuZ2UgeW91ciBh cmd1ZW1lbnQgc2xpZ2h0bHkuIFlvdSB0YWxrIGFib3V0IGV0aGljcyBhbmQgeWV0IHlvdSB0aHJv dyBhcm91bmQgd2lsZCBhY2N1c2F0aW9ucyBhYm91dCBvdGhlcnMgd2hpbGUgbm90IGV2ZW4gbWFu YWdpbmcgdG8gc3RpY2sgdG8gdGhlIGdlbmVyYWxseSBhY2NlcHRlZCBncm91bmQgcnVsZXMgZm9y IGRlYmF0ZS4NCiANCldoaWNoIHJlbWluZHMgbWU6IEkgYXNrZWQgeW91IGVhcmxpZXIgd2hhdCAi U2VjcmV0IERpcmVjdCBDb21wZW5zYXRpb24iIG15IGZlbGxvdyBNVlBzIGFuZCBJIGFyZSBzdXBw b3NlZCB0byByZWNlaXZlIGZyb20gTWljcm9zb2Z0LiBJJ20gc3RpbGwgd2FpdGluZyBmb3IgbXkg cmVwbHkuDQogDQpSb2IgDQpNUyBNVlAuDQoNCgktLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLSAN CglGcm9tOiBHcmVnIERlY2tsZXIgW21haWx0bzpncmVnQGluZm9uaXRpb24uY29tXSANCglTZW50 OiBGcmkgMDcvMDIvMjAwMyAxOTo1OSANCglUbzogRXhjaGFuZ2UgRGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgDQoJQ2M6 IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBTaG9ydGN1dHMgdG8gT3V0bG9vayBvYmplY3RzDQoJDQoJDQoNCglU aGlzIGlzIGV4YWN0bHkgdGhlIGF0dGl0dWRlIHRoYXQgSSBhbSB0YWxraW5nIGFib3V0LiANCg0K CSANCg0K _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
