[FairfieldLife] Re: Aut horative Words on Enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The following is not a jibe, more an observation of a paradox or contradiction. You can comment if you like -- clever, I am sure the response it will be. You indicate that you are not enlightened, yet talk in great detail and apparent authority as to what it enlightenment is and what the path is and what the path is not. I just rap, from whatever my state of consciousness may be when I feel like writing. If you see any authority in my posts, you're projecting it there...I see only opinion, which changes from minute to minute. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and: what is there about permanent witnessing that is NOT a benchmark of some sort, enlightenment-wise? Permanent witnessing is to enlightenment as having toenails is to being human. Just a tiny part of a larger phenomenon... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] MMY still plans worlds tallest building
Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. See more news stories that match my keyword You received this email because you subscribed to Yahoo! Alerts. Use this link to unsubscribe from this alert. To change your communications preferences for other Yahoo! business lines, please visit your Marketing Preferences. To learn more about Yahoo!'s use of personal information, including the use of web beacons in HTML-based email, please read our Privacy Policy. Yahoo! is located at 701 First Avenue, Sunnyvale, CA 94089. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Excellent post. My comments in between marked by . --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me take a stab at trying to straighten this out, as briefly as I can. Intellectually, I know all this stuff, everything Rory has said, everything Barry has said in this post, about the nature of ignorance. I've heard it over and over and *over* again, and not only that, I'm completely convinced it's true. I'm absolutely positive that I were I to become realized, I'd be saying the same things on my own hook. What I hope I *wouldn't* be doing is to couch them in terms that suggest realization is a matter of psychology, of intention, of ideas, of stories, that the willingness to do a little tweaking here and there of how one thinks and reacts can bring realization about. That may turn out to be difficult, because that may be how it all looks to me then; and because we lack a good vocabulary for expressing what it looks like in other terms. But I hope I remember MMY's dictum Knowledge is structured in consciousness--not in psychology, not in the mind, but in consciousness--and its corollary, Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. That's *experiential* knowledge, not intellectual knowledge, not psychological insight. Another way to say it is, One's experiential reality is different in different states of consciousness. This is very true. I have difficulties to remember, what my experiential reality was before an awakening. In the state of consciousness we've been calling ignorance, one *cannot know* experientially that the bars of the cage don't exist; and the intellectual conviction that they don't exist *does not affect* the experiential knowledge that they do. As I said in earlier posts, something *else* has to happen for experiential knowledge, the experiential reality, to change. Attachment in the sense MMY uses the term is not something that can be dissolved by intention (other than the intention to sit down, close one's eyes, and begin TM). Nor can it be dissolved via intellectual examination or psychological probing. I think intellectual self inquiry, psychological probing and recognizing and transforming suppressed emotions are important techniques along with meditation that help you better navigate in life and makes you faster ready for the next shift in awareness, but the shift in itself doesn't happen through these means. snip In these discussions, Rory has been telling you that you are free, and you have been asserting, over and over, that he is mistaken and that you are not. He is speaking from his state of consciousness, in which the experiential reality is that I am free. And I'm speaking from my state of consciousness, in which the experiential reality is that I am not. Both of us can be right; these are not mutually exclusive propositions as I just phrased them. The mistake is for him to suggest *my* experiential reality is that I am free. snip For now, in my opinion, you seem to be terribly attached to the cell being real. You don't even try to rattle the bars or to examine them to see if they're real. Very much au contraire. I'm constantly rattling them. And they make a lot of noise when I do. You already know that they're real. Anyone who says differently is obviously fucking with you. So what you do when some- one tells you that the bars aren't real is to try to make the person who's telling you the truth feel bad about telling you the truth. You try to make the person who has caused you pain feel pain himself. And here, sadly, you veer off into putdowns, and inaccurate ones at that (as per usual). I made it *explicit* to Rory, and I'm pretty sure he understood, that I was NOT suggesting he had any intention of fucking with me, to the contrary, in fact. Nor was I trying to make him feel bad; I told him that as well. What I wanted him to do was to *empathize* with my pain. And indeed he did, to his credit. Moreover, as I also made clear, he was causing me no more than annoyance at the misunderstanding. When I described my pain, I was recalling what I had felt the first time I'd been told, Oh, you're not really overshadowed; you're not in ignorance; you're already enlightened. That was years ago, and I got over it, but it did leave a scar. I just hate to think of other people having to experience the same kind of pain when it's so utterly unnecessary. I *hoped* I might be able to communicate the nature of the problem, but I don't think I was very successful. Bottom line, I'd suggest to realized people that while speaking the truth of their own experiential reality is fine and important, if they can't empathize with the experiential reality of the unrealized, at least they should try to avoid contradicting what the unrealized say about their
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating everyone one encounters during the day with respect, doing their best for them, stuff like that. The former (the Grand Gesture traditions) on the whole *don't* seem to think of selfless service as something that you do all day, every day, on a personal and interpersonal level. I've noticed that the people within the Grand Gesture groups often tend to reserve their feeling of performing selfless service *for* the Grand Gestures. They scrimp and save to be able to donate to the big fundraising projects for the Grand Gestures. But at the same time, they *rarely* seem to put much energy into the *daily* performance of selfless service in terms of doing the best they can for the people whom they interact with in their lives. Sometimes it seems that the Grand Gestures are a way to *fool* the people in the organizations into believing that they're actually creating good karma and doing something good in the world, while they spend the majority of their everyday lives looking down on the people they meet and treating them with disdain, and from a platform of moral and spiritual superiority. Then you've got the folks like the Buddhist monks I used to meet in Santa Fe, who use their *everyday lives* as the vehicle for selfless service. Every person they meet is looked upon as an opportunity to put some energy back into the system, to do good for others. The difference is profound to witness and experience. It's an overgeneralization, but I think it's to some extent an accurate one. Me, I tend to prefer being around the people who walk the walk of the spiritual life on a daily basis rather than the ones who save up their good works for the occasional Grand Gesture. The Rama trip was all about Grand Gestures, and it wound up creating a group of people who put a lot of money into teaching meditation for free, but who treated the people they worked with and the people they ran into on the streets like shit. I've cer- tainly seen the same thing in the TMO. And then there were the traditions I've encountered since who put their focus on treating everyone they met with respect and trying to do their best for them, and allowed the Grand Gestures to take care of themselves. Just a pre-coffee rap... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Expectations
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is a desire without expectation? A desire without expectation means dedication to work on the desire without expectation of outcome. I have intense desire to heal myself, but less attachment to the outcome. It is like enjoying the journey itself. Expectations are limiting because you cannot know the outcome. Expecting certain kind of outcome disturbs your walking attentively with open eyes. Your perception gets distorted and rigid. Especially healing means opening of new pathways and perceptions. You cannot know them in forward. It is tiny experiences of healing and aliveness in the present moment that gradually accumulates to results I don't know in forward. Irmeli To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Expectations
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is a desire without expectation? A desire without expectation means dedication to work on the desire without expectation of outcome. Exactly. Work for the joy of working. The results take care of themselves and the desires just pass through like a stick through water, leaving no mark and no samskaras. If you had allowed the desires to turn into expect- ations, those expectations would have formed new samskaras, and perpetuated the cycle of karma. But if you just allow the desires to pass through with no more attachment ot the fruit of them or aversion to them not being fulfilled...no harm, no foul. The desire becomes Just Another Passing Thought. Plus, one gains the benefit of being in the moment, doing the work for the sheer joy of doing the work. It's a great high...much more fulfilling than doing the work in expectation of a result. I have intense desire to heal myself, but less attachment to the outcome. It is like enjoying the journey itself. One of my favorite quotes from the Tao Te Ching is: A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent upon arriving. The journey IS the destination. Anything else involves not living in the present. Expectations are limiting because you cannot know the outcome. Expecting certain kind of outcome disturbs your walking attentively with open eyes. Your perception gets distorted and rigid. Especially healing means opening of new pathways and perceptions. You cannot know them in forward. It is tiny experiences of healing and aliveness in the present moment that gradually accumulates to results I don't know in forward. One benefit of dumping expectations is that you regain the ability to be pleasantly surprised by life. Think how incredibly BORING life would be if all that it offered you was what you expected of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] IDENTIFICATION Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates....)
And then there's the ever-popular 200 percent of life, 100/100 Absolute/relative. That's now been replaced by 300 percent of life: 100% absolute 100% relative and maxing out the followers credits cards 100%. :-) It's all part of the Grand Plan, which is set up to insure that the True Believers don't have a pot to piss in, money- wise or asset-wise when it comes time to die and dive into the Bardo. In the absence of actual Bardo teachings, the lack of possessions back in the relative world is sup- posed to make overcoming the attachment to that world and moving effortlessly to the next easier for the students. Being stronger and more evolved and more able to overcome attachment, Maharishi is performing selfless service by accumulating his students' wealth. He can *handle* having all that money and walking away from it effortlessly at the time of his deah, and they can't. So the transfer of assets is really an act of kindness. It's all in one's POV. I've actually heard this argument presented seriously. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. Buddha walked away from one teacher and one tradition and found enlightenment. Hundreds of other seekers have had the same experience, even though what they walked away *from* was always different. Maybe the act of dropping one's attachment to a tradition and its dogma -- *whatever* that tradition and dogma may be -- is what acts as a catalyst for realization. Doesn't matter if it's TM one walks away from or Buddhism, or Christianity or whatever. Walking away means finally coming to trust oneself and one's intuition more than one trusts outside authorities or lineage or tradition. That trust may be the catalyst IMO. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Especially the correlation between noticing the witnessing and the lower level of activity (sitting on the terrace at twilight as opposed to moving furniture in Barry's case, and sitting in the car driving around versus digging out the cistern in Alex's case). The lower the activity level, the less competition the Self has for one's attention. Both of them mention the heat in which they had to do their more active task, which also would grab some attention, both from mind/ senses and physiology. Actually, to provide a little more information, I think that coorelation is a little too simplistic to be true, based on my own past experiences. That was just yesterday's experience that I wrote about yesterday. In the past, the most present or noticeable witnessing I've experienced often took place during times of the most *heightened* activity, not the most low level. One of my most intense experiences of witnessing took place when someone tried to mug me in Amsterdam. The intense witnessing started *during* the mugging, kept going when I turned the tables on the guy and wound up chasing *him* down the street rather than giving him my wallet, and lasted for a week or so afterwards. Several other times the witnessing seemed to be triggered by equally intense and active foreground events, such as making love or having to speak in front of thousands of people or climbing a mountain while fighting 100 mph winds. Go figure. Then again, there have been times when the witnessing has been triggered by the opposite, by the sudden perception of silence. I remember once I was hiking through a forest in Westchester County, enjoying what I perceived as the relative silence, compared to my normal workday in NYC. It was neat, but there was no direct appreciation of witnessing or anything like that. Then a big noise happened (they were doing construc- tion nearby, and someone set off some dynamite) and the forest *really* went silent. And I realized at that moment that on one level it had *not* been silent before. There had been frogs croaking, birds singing, lots and lots of sounds. They all went silent after the dynamite blast, and bam! there was the appreciation of the witnessing phenomenon. And then there have been times when it became notice- able when absolutely *nothing* out of the ordinary, either in terms of heightened activity or lessening activity, was going on. Bottom line for me is that after 30+ years of dealing with this coming and going of the appreciation of witnessing, I can pinpoint NO cause and effect relationship. NONE. It comes when it wants to, and it goes when it wants to, and on another level it's always present. Go figure. It just does its own thing. Nothing I have ever done to try to figure out a way to trigger it has EVER worked out. At this point I don't think that there IS anything that one can do to bring this appreciation of witnessing about. It's not up to me. And it's not up to any outside agency such as God. It is just what is. Sometimes it's noticeable, sometimes it's not, and it Really Doesn't Matter which is which. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] You've had witnessing 24/7 for the past several years? I think taste of witnessing implies that it was neither 27/7 nor for years. You seem fixated on witnessing as if it's some sort of absolute benchmark of awakening. However, if you listen to what awakened people have to say, you'll find that witnessing is not at all the benchmark that the TMO makes it out to be. A couple of issues: by what criteria do you consider someone to be awakened? As has been discussed, awakening is not something the intellect can wrap itself around, so words will always fail. But, as I understand it, the awakened person, on the level of awareness, identifies with and as the non-localized infinite. Personally, I remain aware of only separation; I am here, you are there. and: what is there about permanent witnessing that is NOT a benchmark of some sort, enlightenment-wise? As Barry said, it's only a fraction. It's also a quality that can come and go, even in the awakened. And, another thing just occurred to me: the other day, when I was completely overshadowed by the irritation of having to dig through baked clay in 100 degree heat, at the same time I was still not at all overshadowed by the emotional, psycho-sexual wiring that had been the cause of so much pain and suffering for decades. That wiring remains exactly as it has always been, but when I put my attention on it, the perception of it is detached and not involved. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Real Estate in FF Poll
I'm curious what the MSV houses are going for in Ffld. In my neck of the woods, South Florida, Broward county, the median price of a home rose $89,000 over the last year. My wife and I bought our house a little over 4 years ago for $160,000. The same house now sells for $360,000. Talk about appreciation! I don't see the real estate bubble bursting here. Almost all available land has been built-out. The only problem is going to be in the rising interest rates and the financial con of interest free mortgages. What's killing people here are the property taxes on new properties. --- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does anyone out there think about real estate prices in FF and what will happen to them? It seems that not much land is being sold right now maybe the contractors online can address this so that means only those with land already bought and planning to build this year will give any work to the contractors. The architects I assume most who follow MMY are at a crossroads of whether they wait and follow his new direction for Peace Palace Colonies or build exisiting home plans that were once approved to new home builders or if they are on hold. There are 12 or more MSV houses just sitting on the market at unrealistic prices. The smartest seller in town took a loss and moved on the rest are keeping their prices where they need them to be to recoup their exspense but no one will pay or can pay those prices and in the meantime they have taxes to pay and maintenance. Then there is the nationwide bubble they claim will break in the next few years if you read any of the real estate articles in various cities by various percentages. In it it states the things that drive a market to appreicate are jobs, population all the things we dont have and have never have. I wonder how long these various home owners will hold out and when some of them will get real and sell out for anything to cut their loses and move on. Most who are selling are moving away or are financially in trouble or are not empty nesters and did not stop to think 8 years ago who would want their large house fast forward 8years when everyone else was in the same spot plus aging and going to smaller and one story. I could go on and on just wanting to know if anyone thinks about this and what their feelings are. I feel a very big slow down right now. there are always those hopeful for pundits and hopeful for appreciation but those of us on this site know these things will not occur. Are we the only ones? What are these homeowners thinking and what were they thinking when they paid $40 for a one acres or less lot and built these houses? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] More from Guru Dev
The text of 'Amrit Kana'(Droplets of the Nectar of Immortality) - a compilation of quotations from Guru Dev (Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati) is currently being translated into English. Responding to interest in this work I have created a link so that anyone interested can see the work-in-progress text but it should be noted that this text is only in a very formative state at present. It is an onging project and will be frequently updated and improved. Link to translation http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm#amrit To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
On Jul 28, 2005, at 12:58 AM, sparaig wrote: Of course, there's debate about whether or not chakras are part of the Vedic tradition in the first place. I want to see research on what each of these types of witnessing etails, physiologically speaking... There is very little that remains from the Vedic tradition--in fact most of what the TMO/M. promotes as Vedic is not Vedic at all. Chakras in the popular usage comes primarily from the first translation of the Sat Chakra Nirupana, a relatively recent text. I doubt there would be any measurable physiological correlation with our current level of technology, although these different states do correspond do specific styles of meditation, all of which ARE being studied and do possess certain styles of neurological epxression. Ultimately their goal is relax beyond dualistic witnessing and simply to be able to integrate the state of non-dual presence whether with thoughts or without thoughts or whatever. I cannot see how you'd measure that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] You've had witnessing 24/7 for the past several years? I think taste of witnessing implies that it was neither 27/7 nor for years. You seem fixated on witnessing as if it's some sort of absolute benchmark of awakening. However, if you listen to what awakened people have to say, you'll find that witnessing is not at all the benchmark that the TMO makes it out to be. A couple of issues: by what criteria do you consider someone to be awakened? As has been discussed, awakening is not something the intellect can wrap itself around, so words will always fail. But, as I understand it, the awakened person, on the level of awareness, identifies with and as the non-localized infinite. Personally, I remain aware of only separation; I am here, you are there. and: what is there about permanent witnessing that is NOT a benchmark of some sort, enlightenment-wise? As Barry said, it's only a fraction. It's also a quality that can come and go, even in the awakened. Seems to me that one can't be awakened without witnessing. And, another thing just occurred to me: the other day, when I was completely overshadowed by the irritation of having to dig through baked clay in 100 degree heat, at the same time I was still not at all overshadowed by the emotional, psycho-sexual wiring that had been the cause of so much pain and suffering for decades. That wiring remains exactly as it has always been, but when I put my attention on it, the perception of it is detached and not involved. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and: what is there about permanent witnessing that is NOT a benchmark of some sort, enlightenment-wise? Permanent witnessing is to enlightenment as having toenails is to being human. Just a tiny part of a larger phenomenon... Except, of course, you don't need toenails to be human. Are you saying that witnessing isn't a defining characteristic, however beginning-level it actually is, of enlightenment? I am suggesting, since the consistent experience of people who have begun witnessing frequently has been that, once it started they realized it had never *not* been present, that witnessing has no more physiological coorelation to enlight- enment than having toenails does. The witnessing was present before it was noticed. It is there after it has been noticed. What is to test for? I am unconvinced that anyone will *ever* find physiological coorelates to enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 28, 2005, at 12:58 AM, sparaig wrote: Of course, there's debate about whether or not chakras are part of the Vedic tradition in the first place. I want to see research on what each of these types of witnessing etails, physiologically speaking... There is very little that remains from the Vedic tradition--in fact most of what the TMO/M. promotes as Vedic is not Vedic at all. How so? Chakras in the popular usage comes primarily from the first translation of the Sat Chakra Nirupana, a relatively recent text. I doubt there would be any measurable physiological correlation with our current level of technology, although these different states do correspond do specific styles of meditation, all of which ARE being studied and do possess certain styles of neurological epxression. Ultimately their goal is relax beyond dualistic witnessing and simply to be able to integrate the state of non-dual presence whether with thoughts or without thoughts or whatever. I cannot see how you'd measure that. States of consciousness have physiological signatures, regardless of mental content. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
On Jul 28, 2005, at 7:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Except, of course, you don't need toenails to be human. Are you saying that witnessing isn't a defining characteristic, however beginning-level it actually is, of enlightenment? Not all styles of meditation recognize witnessing as important. It is really only a characteristic of certain styles of meditation--in this case mantra yoga. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: States of consciousness have physiological signatures, regardless of mental content. Might I remind you that this is a hypotheis that has been taught to you, one that you hope is true but do not know is true? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
On Jul 28, 2005, at 8:01 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: States of consciousness have physiological signatures, regardless of mental content. Might I remind you that this is a hypotheis that has been taught to you, one that you hope is true but do not know is true? Pavlov's meditator? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent post. My comments in between marked by . Thanks, Irmeli. Great comments too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As I said in earlier posts, something *else* has to happen for experiential knowledge, the experiential reality, to change. Attachment in the sense MMY uses the term is not something that can be dissolved by intention (other than the intention to sit down, close one's eyes, and begin TM). Nor can it be dissolved via intellectual examination or psychological probing. I think intellectual self inquiry, psychological probing and recognizing and transforming suppressed emotions are important techniques along with meditation that help you better navigate in life and makes you faster ready for the next shift in awareness, but the shift in itself doesn't happen through these means. I'll buy that. I do think one needs to strike a good balance, though, and not get so self-involved (lower- case s!) that it kills one's ability to be spontaneous. snip It seems to me, based on my observation of what realized people have said about the state of ignorance, that the stages of experiential reality are not backward-compatible, as it were. You can't fully recall the experiential reality of the dream state once you are awake. I often like to metaphorically think of these different stages of experiential reality ( this is a very good expression) as different operating systems in a computer. I think it is also possible that, when a new more advanced operating system gets installed, the new one may be lacking some good properties the old operating system had. It's the throwing away the baby with the bath water syndrome. The more advanced operating system can pick up those properties, once the defect is recognized. The old operating system cannot pick up the more advanced qualities of the new operating system. Terrific metaphor, and very interesting observation about the new OS lacking some good properties of the old one! And I should think it might be harder to recognize personality defects when one is in a state of wholeness with regard to one's consciousness, at least until the novelty wears off. I have realized that if I really want to help another person, I must be able to experientially share her reality. In that position I look at the conflicts of her life and we try to navigate through them the best we can together. This kind of sharing is very difficult to do in a chat group in internet Yes, one's Internet persona can be different in many respects from one's live persona. But by the same token, it may be easier to reveal certain kinds of things about oneself when one is at an electronic distance. , clearly easier in the physical presence of the person. In every day life I feel it is more rewarding to meet each person this way to the extent I can. It doesn't feel a bit good to take a superior position. Yup. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating everyone one encounters during the day with respect, doing their best for them, stuff like that. The former (the Grand Gesture traditions) on the whole *don't* seem to think of selfless service as something that you do all day, every day, on a personal and interpersonal level. I've noticed that the people within the Grand Gesture groups often tend to reserve their feeling of performing selfless service *for* the Grand Gestures. They scrimp and save to be able to donate to the big fundraising projects for the Grand Gestures. But at the same time, they *rarely* seem to put much energy into the *daily* performance of selfless service in terms of doing the best they can for the people whom they interact with in their lives. Sometimes it seems that the Grand Gestures are a way to *fool* the people in the organizations into
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: States of consciousness have physiological signatures, regardless of mental content. Might I remind you that this is a hypotheis that has been taught to you, one that you hope is true but do not know is true? Oh, good heavens, not at all. There's no question that waking, dreaming, and sleeping have distinct physiological signatures; that was well established before TM even came on the scene. And there's some pretty solid evidence that transcendence-- what Wallace called the wakeful hypometabolic state-- has distinct physiological features as well. And now of course they're studying sleep witnessing and seem to have some very suggestive results for that state too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 28, 2005, at 8:01 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: States of consciousness have physiological signatures, regardless of mental content. Might I remind you that this is a hypotheis that has been taught to you, one that you hope is true but do not know is true? Pavlov's meditator? More like Heisenberg's Hunch. :-) When one sets out to measure a phenomenon, one's expectations and assumptions, if present, cannot help but affect what is found. Many scientists go into their experiments on the nature of states of consciousness wearing an assumption that states of consciousness are physiologically different, and that difference is measurable. They *expect* to find differences. And so they do. Their expectations create the differences. But the differences do not necessarily have anything to do with the different states of consciousness. IMO they have more to do with the nature of expectation that the scientists bring to the experiment. I think that experiments such as the ones you posted recently, about the real-world, practical-over-time benefits of meditation, are valuable and probably valuable, in that they would interest more people in the possible benefits of meditation. But experiments to prove the existence of something that has never even been *described* accurately in the entire history of human experience, and by definition *cannot* be? Give me a break. Scientists attempting to pinpoint the physiological nature of enlightenment *will* find things that they believe are indicators of enlightenment. They will find these things because they expect to find them. But the things they find may not necessarily have anything to do with enlightenment. One need look no further back than the original Wallace experiments and their emphasis on the presence of certain types of brainwaves to see this tendency to find what one already expects to find. Wallace found a bunch of brainwaves that, because of the nature of his belief in TM and what Maharishi had told him, he *expected* to find something. And he did. He associated these brainwave patterns with transcendence. Well, as time has passed it's turned out that these patterns occur in many circumstances, as a result of many different things, and thus probably has no real relationship to transcendence, right? But it seemed like a logical scientific find at the time. My suspicion is that this is *exactly* what is going to happen with future experiments that set out to find a physiological counterpart to enlightenment. The scientists are definitely going to find things. They *expect* to find things, so they will. And it'll seem to make sense at the time, and everyone in the TM movement (or whatever movement is spon- soring the experiments) will be excited because at last they'll have proof that enlightenment exists and what physiological indicators make it enlightenment. And this excitement will last for a year or two, and then someone will notice that the indicators also show up as a result of, say, eating too much chili. And the whole process will start all over again. :-) That's my feeling for what will happen as a result of the desire to scientifically validate enlightenment. I could be wrong. I often am. But I don't think I am in this case. I don't see the universe having created something (enlightenment) that has defied descrip- tion for this long (millennia) just up and relinquishing its mysteries just because people are afraid to accept their own subjective experience as sufficient proof of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and: what is there about permanent witnessing that is NOT a benchmark of some sort, enlightenment-wise? Permanent witnessing is to enlightenment as having toenails is to being human. Just a tiny part of a larger phenomenon... Except, of course, you don't need toenails to be human. Are you saying that witnessing isn't a defining characteristic, however beginning-level it actually is, of enlightenment? I am suggesting, since the consistent experience of people who have begun witnessing frequently has been that, once it started they realized it had never *not* been present, that witnessing has no more physiological coorelation to enlight- enment than having toenails does. Witnessing refers to conscious awareness of Self along with activity (or sleep). Obviously Self has always been present. What distinguishes witnessing from not-witnessing is *recognizing* that Self is present. The witnessing was present before it was noticed. No, the *Self* was present before it was noticed. Witnessing is when it's noticed. It is there after it has been noticed. What is to test for? Whether there's a difference between the markers of noticing and the markers of not-noticing, of course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. Pretty fascinating quote, Mark. Because one of my hobbies or fascinations is comparative religion / comparitive spirituality, I've seen this scenario work itself out dozens of times. On the other hand, I have seen traditions *avoid* this scenario. They started clean and they ended clean. By ended I mean the primary teacher died, and no serious disintegration of the organization occured until long after the teacher died. The latter give me hope. But I do not expect the TM movement to be one of them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Sparaig wrote:] Allof these things appear to me to be contained in MMY's theory about progression in CC... Especially the correlation between noticing the witnessing and the lower level of activity (sitting on the terrace at twilight as opposed to moving furniture in Barry's case, and sitting in the car driving around versus digging out the cistern in Alex's case). The lower the activity level, the less competition the Self has for one's attention. Both of them mention the heat in which they had to do their more active task, which also would grab some attention, both from mind/ senses and physiology. Actually, to provide a little more information, I think that coorelation is a little too simplistic to be true, Any particular reason for the scare quotes? based on my own past experiences. That was just yesterday's experience that I wrote about yesterday. In the past, the most present or noticeable witnessing I've experienced often took place during times of the most *heightened* activity, not the most low level. Yeah, I don't believe I said anything about the correlation *always* being the case, did I? In context (restored above), the question was whether the experiences you and Alex reported were consistent with MMY's explanations of witnessing. One would *expect* to be able to notice the Self more easily when one's activity level is low, but that doesn't mean it's always going to be the case, nor did I suggest it did. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious what the MSV houses are going for in Ffld. snip MSV houses in Ffld range from 400 sq.ft. trailers to Earl Kaplan's taj mahal like mansion, with everything in between, so there's no avg. price. MSV houses have sold for a large premium over similarly sized and constructed homes in town, so the owners are at risk as the demand seems to be slowing down now. Plus the premium was just for having the official MSV approval -- many MSV homes were built very cheaply and with toxic materials, ie, you were buying vastu not a quality green home. To be official MSV you had to have your home designed and built by maharishi global construction. I'm told by someone working there that MGC has been told to shut down their residential business as all new MSV homes will now be delivered prefab from a few officially approved designs from int'l. Maybe someone here knows more about this. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. But maybe what the student has jumped off of has something to do with the jumping-off being able to trigger the realization. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. You'd probably have to do a much larger analysis of seekers who left a trip to see what *percentage* of them then had realizations compared to the percentage who left a *different* trip and then had realizations. If the percentages of realizations after leaving various trips were roughly the same, that would be evidence for your case. If one or more trips had significantly higher percentages, then you'd want to think about giving some credit to those specific trips themselves. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 28, 2005, at 8:01 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: States of consciousness have physiological signatures, regardless of mental content. Might I remind you that this is a hypotheis that has been taught to you, one that you hope is true but do not know is true? Pavlov's meditator? More like Heisenberg's Hunch. :-) When one sets out to measure a phenomenon, one's expectations and assumptions, if present, cannot help but affect what is found. Many scientists go into their experiments on the nature of states of consciousness wearing an assumption that states of consciousness are physiologically different, and that difference is measurable. They *expect* to find differences. And so they do. Their expectations create the differences. But the differences do not necessarily have anything to do with the different states of consciousness. IMO they have more to do with the nature of expectation that the scientists bring to the experiment. I think that experiments such as the ones you posted recently, about the real-world, practical-over-time benefits of meditation, are valuable and probably valuable, in that they would interest more people in the possible benefits of meditation. But experiments to prove the existence of something that has never even been *described* accurately in the entire history of human experience, and by definition *cannot* be? Give me a break. It isn't a matter of proving the existence of anything. It's a matter of demonstrating a high degree of correlation between subjective reports of experiences and specific neurophysiological signatures. The studies that established the neurophysiological signature of dreaming did not prove that people had vivid fantasy experiences while asleep; it demonstrated that there was a high degree of correlation between the signatures and the subjective reports of those experiences. You can't really say dreaming has been described accurately either; you can cite some features that seem to be common to most people's dreaming experience, but it's very difficult, if not impossible, to describe the state itself. For that matter, we can't accurately describe even waking state *as a state*. snip One need look no further back than the original Wallace experiments and their emphasis on the presence of certain types of brainwaves to see this tendency to find what one already expects to find. Wallace found a bunch of brainwaves that, because of the nature of his belief in TM and what Maharishi had told him, he *expected* to find something. And he did. He associated these brainwave patterns with transcendence. Well, as time has passed it's turned out that these patterns occur in many circumstances, as a result of many different things, and thus probably has no real relationship to transcendence, right? Got citations to the studies that ruled out such a relationship? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 28, 2005, at 7:30 AM, sparaig wrote: Except, of course, you don't need toenails to be human. Are you saying that witnessing isn't a defining characteristic, however beginning-level it actually is, of enlightenment? Not all styles of meditation recognize witnessing as important. It is really only a characteristic of certain styles of meditation--in this case mantra yoga. In the TM context, witnessing is not a characteristic of meditation but of one's experience across the board. It *usually* refers to witnessing during activity, not during meditation, although it can certainly occur during meditation as well. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. But maybe what the student has jumped off of has something to do with the jumping-off being able to trigger the realization. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. You'd probably have to do a much larger analysis of seekers who left a trip to see what *percentage* of them then had realizations compared to the percentage who left a *different* trip and then had realizations. If the percentages of realizations after leaving various trips were roughly the same, that would be evidence for your case. If one or more trips had significantly higher percentages, then you'd want to think about giving some credit to those specific trips themselves. If all you believe in is objective evidence, by all means do your study. I was merely stating opinion, based on nothing more than watching trends in spiritual organizations for a lifetime (at least). I'm still convinced that the process of challenging one's assumptions and core beliefs can have some- thing to do with triggering further realizations. And that this process can occur whether one's self- challenges result in walking away from one's current course of study or not. As I've mentioned before on another forum ( and possibly here, because as a Sagg I tend to repeat myself :-), I had a good friend who was a Paulist priest. He told me something about his order that really appealed to me. He said that no one was *ever* considered for a position of responsibility in the order unless they'd gone through their own personal dark night of the soul and almost left the Church. The process of doubting and confront- ing one's doubts (as opposed to stuffing them or ignoring them) was considered absolutely neces- sary for someone to be considered worthy of holding a high office. Those who had *not* gone through their period of doubt and come out the other side with their faith renewed were looked upon as blissninnies, and not to be trusted. So for me this is the same process. It's the *process* that is important -- the active challenging of one's assumptions and beliefs -- not the outcome. That *process* is what I suspect can trigger realization. But then, I could be wrong about this. And that wouldn't bother me one bit. I'm comfortable with my opinion being mere opinion. I don't have to believe it's fact, or try to convince others it's fact. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
On Jul 28, 2005, at 9:24 AM, authfriend wrote: Oh, good heavens, not at all. There's no question that waking, dreaming, and sleeping have distinct physiological signatures; that was well established before TM even came on the scene. I believe, given the context of the conversation, he was referring the higher states of consciousness or at least other states of consciousness (than waking/dreaming/sleeping). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
On Jul 28, 2005, at 10:14 AM, authfriend wrote: Not all styles of meditation recognize witnessing as important. It is really only a characteristic of certain styles of meditation--in this case mantra yoga. In the TM context, witnessing is not a characteristic of meditation but of one's experience across the board. It *usually* refers to witnessing during activity, not during meditation, although it can certainly occur during meditation as well. And thus the same is true of mantra-yoga of course--and other methods like TM. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. But maybe what the student has jumped off of has something to do with the jumping-off being able to trigger the realization. That is, if one analyzes the hundreds of stories of seekers who had their first serious realization shortly after walking away from a long-term spiritual trip, the process may have more to do with the walking away than it does with what has been walked away from. You'd probably have to do a much larger analysis of seekers who left a trip to see what *percentage* of them then had realizations compared to the percentage who left a *different* trip and then had realizations. If the percentages of realizations after leaving various trips were roughly the same, that would be evidence for your case. If one or more trips had significantly higher percentages, then you'd want to think about giving some credit to those specific trips themselves. If all you believe in is objective evidence, by all means do your study. Non sequitur. Did I say somewhere that all I believed in was objective evidence? I was merely stating opinion, based on nothing more than watching trends in spiritual organizations for a lifetime (at least). Non sequitur. Watching trends in spiritual organizations and analyzing the stories of hundreds of seekers are both objective approaches in which you evaluated evidence and then derived a conclusion from that evaluation. In other words, you did a study. I'm pointing out that to make it a *solid* conclusion, you have to take the same kind of analysis a bit further. The study you did wasn't thorough enough to support your conclusion. I'm still convinced that the process of challenging one's assumptions and core beliefs can have some- thing to do with triggering further realizations. I never said that wasn't the case. What I said was that if you found leaving some trips more often triggered realization than did leaving other trips, you'd want to think about giving some credit to the trips themselves, in terms of what they provided by way of preparation. The propositions aren't mutually exclusive, you see. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
. What I saidwas that if you found leaving some trips moreoften triggered realization than did leaving othertrips, you'd want to think about giving somecredit to the trips themselves, in terms of whatthey provided by way of preparation.The propositions aren't mutually exclusive, you see.I think that like when someone leaves their parents and learn they can do things for themselves, that would sort of simply explain the phenomenon. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 28, 2005, at 9:24 AM, authfriend wrote: Oh, good heavens, not at all. There's no question that waking, dreaming, and sleeping have distinct physiological signatures; that was well established before TM even came on the scene. I believe, given the context of the conversation, he was referring the higher states of consciousness or at least other states of consciousness (than waking/dreaming/sleeping). Right. My point was that a basis for the assumption that different states of consciousness have unique neurophysiological signatures was already established prior to TM. I went on to point out (which you seem to have snipped) that there is some pretty good evidence that other states of consciousness than waking/dreaming/sleeping also have their own unique signatures. So it is not, contrary to Barry's claim, just something TMers have been taught. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
Watching trends in spiritual organizations and analyzing the stories of hundreds of seekers are both objective approaches in which you evaluated evidence and then derived a conclusion from that evaluation. In other words, you did a study. I'm pointing out that to make it a *solid* conclusion, you have to take the same kind of analysis a bit further. I don't have to do jackshit. :-) I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating everyone one encounters during the day with respect, doing their best for them, stuff like that. The former (the Grand Gesture traditions) on the whole *don't* seem to think of selfless service as something that you do all day, every day, on a personal and interpersonal level. I've noticed that the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
MMY will be remembered for his monumental success for what he did and his monumental failure for what he could have done. --- Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. I met a traveler from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whos frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandius, king of kings: Look on my words, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. Ozymandius, by Percy Bysshe Shelley To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. I met a traveler from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whos frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandius, king of kings: Look on my words, ye Mighty, and despair! Works. Whoever put this up on the Web couldn't spell. :-) Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. Ozymandius, by Percy Bysshe Shelley To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, I think you take the high road with regards to TM philosophy because it's what you're most comfortable with. Not sure what you mean by take the high road. Not sure what you're getting at in this post generally, but I'll make what comments I can. Now think about this. If the philosophy wasn't simple and easy to understand could you really be such an expert on it? That is, could any of us? Well, I dunno. In the first place, I don't consider myself an expert. But whatever degree of mastery I've achieved, I've probably studied MMY's teaching more thoroughly than any other. Maybe I could be as knowledgeable about others if I studied them as much. Considering this stupefying simplicity, could it be anything besides a bit too simple? I'm not sure it's all that easy to understand once you get beyond the basics, first (based on the amount of misunderstanding floating around); and second, I'm not sure simplicity--such as it may be-- is a negative characteristic when it comes to philosophy. In higher math, as I understand it, simplicity is valued; a simpler solution to a problem tends to be seen as better than one that's more complex (also see Occam's razor). The term scientists use for neat theories is elegant. I think MMY's teaching (Advaita plus Yoga) is incredibly elegant. One way of defining elegance in this context would have to do with the proportion of theory to its explanatory value. TM theory has, it seems to me, a tremendous amount of explanatory value contained in a relatively small collection of premises. Finally, the term I'd use would be metaphysical system rather than philosophy. It's also important that the TM metaphysics has a systematic experiential component, which distinguishes it from a philosophy per se. Over to you...dunno if I've addressed what you were getting at. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . What I said was that if you found leaving some trips more often triggered realization than did leaving other trips, you'd want to think about giving some credit to the trips themselves, in terms of what they provided by way of preparation. The propositions aren't mutually exclusive, you see. I think that like when someone leaves their parents and learn they can do things for themselves, that would sort of simply explain the phenomenon. Well, sure. But are some children better at learning to do things for themselves than others, and does that have anything to do with the preparation their parents gave them before the children left? When I left home for the first time to go to college, for the first few weeks of the semester many of the women in my dorm were miserably homesick, really unhappy and scared. I wasn't the least bit homesick or scared. (I had a great home life, so it wasn't that I was happy to get away!) Somehow my parents managed to prepare me to leave home and start fending for myself better than some of the other freshmen's parents. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Watching trends in spiritual organizations and analyzing the stories of hundreds of seekers are both objective approaches in which you evaluated evidence and then derived a conclusion from that evaluation. In other words, you did a study. I'm pointing out that to make it a *solid* conclusion, you have to take the same kind of analysis a bit further. I don't have to do jackshit. :-) Yes, you do, if you want to make it a solid conclusion. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Non sequitur. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
markmeredith2002 wrote: Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. C. Northcote Parkinson, In _Parkinson's Law_, points out that institutions do their really important work in makeshift quarters. By the time they get around to building edifices to themselves, their real work is done. From the book: A perfection of planned layout [of a building] is achieved only by institutions on the point of collapse. ... During a period of exciting discovery or progress there is no time to plan the perfect headquarters. The time for that comes later, when all the important work has been done. Perfection, we know, is finality; and finality is death. He cites many examples, including the Palace of Versailles, completed just as the decline of Louis's power had begun, and the British colonial capital of New Delhi, into which Lord Irwin moved in 1929, just as the Indian Congress demanded independence. In the United States we can think of our own Capital, not completed until nearly four score and seven years after the Declaration of Independence; and the Pentagon, completed at the end of World War II. The Sears Tower rose as that company's empire fell to Wal-Mart and all the other stores that now dominate retailing. Think of all the vaastu-compliant buildings built by now-closed businesses in Fairfield. For all of you laboring in cramped, inadequate quarters, be thankful. - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
MGC is closing Aug 1. Apparently MMY called Doug Greenfield in Florida where he is doing some investing. Now when MMY calls anyone Doug or Chris Johnson who runs Mandala 6 I am not sure what this means. I am sure he does not pick up the phone probably someone sets the call up and maybe he gets on. Who knows but that is another whole discussion. Also Doug Greenfield investing out of state and town as his office buildings are pretty empty here another whole discussion. So MCG is closing they say because MMY felt it was a waste to be spending time building these individual homes here and around the country but mostly here and more focus needed to be put on building Peace Palaces with matching Peace Colony Homes built in mass right away yes shipped from somewhere overseas and pre fab. No one I know even would want one and the people I know in the process of building MSV either had already approved plans from MGC and are going ahead or dont give a flying hoot and when they build in the future on their land they will build whatever they want. I dont know if that starts happening if some entity with take MGC constructions place. They made about $15,000 in fees on each house not a whole lot to them with building slowing down and to the home owner alot. My negative guess is the movement did not like the small amount of money coming out of this plus the positive MMY really does want these Peace Colonies all over the world and is naive enought to think one prefab house will be suitable for all or any. I have no feelings what so ever that this is just another failed project and have heard nothing positive from the field about Peace Palaces or anyone getting paid etc. If any do work it will take years and my best guess is it will be a bunch of old TM Centers resurecting that after a few years due to lack of funds will close again. It is very sad really because we all came up thru those old days and they were great. But I think those days are over and I really give MMY kudos for trying but too little too late his army is now too small and not trusting. So there will be a big shift and transition here in FF hosuing whise building wise and the architext and builders who have here to for felt an alligance and ethical responsibity to only build what was certified will now have to chose do they eat or not eat and hopefully for the better where one can build what they want with no fees to the movement and the house will still be considered a viable house for resale. The reality is even a MSV certified house has little chance of resale at the price you pay to build it and if you get away with a small lose you are doing well. Any house here over $100,000 is risky and only a few people a year buy a house for a hundred thousand according to one local realtor. There is no appreciation here no investment like all our friends who live elsewhere whose house prices triple in 10-15 years or have over the past. So with all of that said it is just a new nice place to live that may if you chose have some SV principals and feel great for you for the next 20 years of your life. Still alot to have a nice new shiny clean house but you need to have the financial reserves and be smart about it and not pay $40,000 for a lot that is one acres etc Many here think that when Chris Johnson gives them a small lot for $26,000 that is a deal when you can buy outside of Vedic City for a few thousand an acres. I guess if you want Vedic City you pay the price or have the last 5 year. If demand slows down and he wants to eat guess he will have to lower his prices too. It is all in the eating factor :-) My guess is that is is buttoming out finally and there are steal of deals coming up so if you are in the market for a new SV house wait and watch. There have to be 15 or so MSV homes on the market and a few that realtors and accountants in town know are coming up and cant say and a few big not on the listings but hey if you want Earl Kaplans house sure you can buy it. Dimicks left behind one that are trying to dump for 1.9 million no one has that kind of money. I hear they may surface in a few years but dont want their house with kids being grown at that point but they are paying the taxes and maintenance they might as well live in it . As far as I see no one wants it and Chromens got off easy when some CA man who is not a Ru found theirs to be a great hidea way and bought it for under a million. I hear he comes with his kids but his wife hates it and does not come here. They took a huge lose but cut their loses and went. David and CAthy Chaladoff took less of a lose a few hundred thousand but they did and were smart and sold their home to the Jorgensens who got a good deal and they moved Chaladoffs to a 2 million dollar home in Carmel. He could have waited for a better buyer but he was smart and let it go for less. But currently the others sellers are delusional and think they can
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. I met a traveler from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whos frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandius, king of kings: Look on my words, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. Ozymandius, by Percy Bysshe Shelley Beautiful! Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Judy, I think you take the high road with regards to TM philosophy because it's what you're most comfortable with. Not sure what you mean by "take the high road."Not sure what you're getting at in this postgenerally, but I'll make what comments I can. --I think you define perfectly what 'taking the high road' is, better than any amount of explanation I could provide. Lines such as, "Finally, the term I'd use would be "metaphysicalsystem" rather than "philosophy." It's alsoimportant that the TM metaphysics has asystematic experiential component, whichdistinguishes it from a philosophy per se." Actually, the former three paragraphs before the above quote were all pretty, 'high-roadish.' I mean, that you need to tell us, many of whom are MIU grads and such, what Maharishi's system is is sort of like preaching to the choir? Or maybe more like preaching to the molested little boys of the choir? Now think about this. If the philosophy wasn't simple and easy to understand could you really be such an expert on it? That is, could any of us?Well, I dunno. In the first place, I don't considermyself an "expert." But whatever degree of masteryI've achieved, I've probably studied MMY's teachingmore thoroughly than any other. Maybe I could be asknowledgeable about others if I studied them as much. -Whether you consider yourself a expert is not really true. You obviously consider yourself an expert since you can say such things as, "The term scientists use for neat theories is"elegant." I think MMY's teaching (Advaitaplus Yoga) is incredibly elegant." It shouldn't need much explanation that if you think that Maharishi's system is elegant that means that you also know what inelegant systems look like. Moreover, you even describe elegance in the next paragraph (which I won't quote). Thus assuming that you are ipso fact the judge and jury of philosophical systems, or an expert, at least of their various levels of elegance ;) Considering this stupefying simplicity, could it be anything besides a bit too simple?I'm not sure it's all that easy to understand onceyou get beyond the basics, first (based on theamount of misunderstanding floating around); andsecond, I'm not sure simplicity--such as it may be--is a negative characteristic when it comes tophilosophy. Again, you said you didn't consider yourself an expert but you then say that there's a lot of "misunderstanding floating around." I wonder if you ever had the Forest Academy on Vedic Science where Maharishi discussed the difference between Vedic Cognition and Vedanga Cognition? The term scientists use for neat theories is"elegant." I think MMY's teaching (Advaitaplus Yoga) is incredibly elegant.One way of defining "elegance" in this contextwould have to do with the proportion of theoryto its explanatory value. TM theory has, itseems to me, a tremendous amount of explanatoryvalue contained in a relatively small collectionof premises.Finally, the term I'd use would be "metaphysicalsystem" rather than "philosophy." It's alsoimportant that the TM metaphysics has asystematic experiential component, whichdistinguishes it from a philosophy per se. There can be no elegance with regards to an oversimplified collection of tenets regarding life, its nature, or its solutions. There is no Occam's razor with regard to the summum bonum of existance. Paradox cannot be reconciled, and finding Maharishi's system to be advaita disregards the other aspects of Maharishi's teachings such as heavy reliance on Yagyas for solving the various 'problems' of life. As you should well know the advaita of Maharishi is Advaita Vedanta, or the advaita of where the Vedas leave off. That advaita presupposes that the vedas themselves are not in fact the solution to the problems of like, and hence moksha or liberation begins once the Veda ends. This "metaphysical" advaita that you ascribe to Maharishi, is odd considering that Maharishi, has never even used the word advaita in anything he ever spoke. If I am mistaken then please give us the quote. Over to you...dunno if I've addressed what youwere getting at. Frankly I forget as well, at this point. Oh yeah, I suggest that the reason you agree with maharishi at all is because like a coloring book, Maharishi's system of Vedic restructuring is so vague and simple as to let you fill in all the color until it truely becomes you. And I think you have done an admirable job with that. I think it would be an incredibly liberating option for you personally to get a divorce from it, and then find true love again with another, and then realize that all that you really loved was the colors from within. Personally, I am only really about liberation. All the fancy houses, gigantic penile monuments, gigantic penile crowning adventures, huge spurting yagyas and other phallic
Re: [FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
I think he'll be remembered as the foremost guru example of the Napolean complex. - Original Message - From: Peter To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building) MMY will be remembered for his monumental success forwhat he did and his monumental failure for what hecould have done.--- Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in IndiaGulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDTCHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book "The Guru Papers" mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing:"Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru.This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him.As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power...When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy." This announcement has retriggered for me something Iwas thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the "good works" they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, "saving the world," enlightening all of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
I think that like when someone leaves their parents and learn they can do things for themselves, that would sort of simply explain the phenomenon.Well, sure. But are some children better atlearning to do things for themselves than others,and does that have anything to do with thepreparation their parents gave them before thechildren left?When I left home for the first time to go tocollege, for the first few weeks of the semestermany of the women in my dorm were miserablyhomesick, really unhappy and scared. I wasn'tthe least bit homesick or scared. (I had a greathome life, so it wasn't that I was happy to getaway!) Somehow my parents managed to prepare meto leave home and start fending for myself betterthan some of the other freshmen's parents.-And yet, you left, and discovered for yourself that you didn't any longer need them telling you what to do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$150,000-$200,000page1.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/20+1.htm FF Listing Brokers on Net http://www.goodearthfairfield.com/ http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/ http://www.c21hayesfairfieldiowa.com/ http://www.davisandpalmerrealestate.com/listings.html http://www.fairfieldiowarealestate.com/ (the above site is currently not working, though it had been up and running for some time. Did they go out of business? They had some MSV homes listed ) Some of the homes listed have been on the market for 6-12 months. I assume most homes would sell for quite discounted offers off the list price. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious what the MSV houses are going for in Ffld. In my neck of the woods, South Florida, Broward county, the median price of a home rose $89,000 over the last year. My wife and I bought our house a little over 4 years ago for $160,000. The same house now sells for $360,000. Talk about appreciation! I don't see the real estate bubble bursting here. Almost all available land has been built-out. The only problem is going to be in the rising interest rates and the financial con of interest free mortgages. What's killing people here are the property taxes on new properties. --- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does anyone out there think about real estate prices in FF and what will happen to them? It seems that not much land is being sold right now maybe the contractors online can address this so that means only those with land already bought and planning to build this year will give any work to the contractors. The architects I assume most who follow MMY are at a crossroads of whether they wait and follow his new direction for Peace Palace Colonies or build exisiting home plans that were once approved to new home builders or if they are on hold. There are 12 or more MSV houses just sitting on the market at unrealistic prices. The smartest seller in town took a loss and moved on the rest are keeping their prices where they need them to be to recoup their exspense but no one will pay or can pay those prices and in the meantime they have taxes to pay and maintenance. Then there is the nationwide bubble they claim will break in the next few years if you read any of the real estate articles in various cities by various percentages. In it it states the things that drive a market to appreicate are jobs, population all the things we dont have and have never have. I wonder how long these various home owners will hold out and when some of them will get real and sell out for anything to cut their loses and move on. Most who are selling are moving away or are financially in trouble or are not empty nesters and did not stop to think 8 years ago who would want their large house fast forward 8years when everyone else was in the same spot plus aging and going to smaller and one story. I could go on and on just wanting to know if anyone thinks about this and what their feelings are. I feel a very big slow down right now. there are always those hopeful for pundits and hopeful for appreciation but those of us on this site know these things will not occur. Are we the only ones? What are these homeowners thinking and what were they thinking when they paid $40 for a one acres or less lot and built these houses? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he'll be remembered as the foremost guru example of the Napolean complex. Personally, I don't think he'll be remembered as the foremost *anything*. Just another guru in a world full of them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
The problem with identifying ones spiritual state upon anything material whatsoever is that you can't take it with you. I have learned alot from this message. Stuff I knew but I have applied it to some other things I had been thinking about like the Kalachakra system. The Kalachakra people always told me to not take the creation of Shambala on Earth tooo seriously as that's not what Kalachakra is about. But I wanted to identify Heaven on Earth with someplace. But now I see why that is a wrongful waste of personal effort. Because all things do change. Gurus, their systems, valuations, ones own self identity. To base ones self perception upon even the master's assessment of one is a foolish waste of self worth. No amount of sadhana is a loss. One must simply be what they are, strive for what they believe, and not tie their awareness to material abstractions.Or even philosophical abstractions for that matter. - Original Message - From: pibssmith To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years Sharalyn. (If shit doesn't hit the fan first) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
More SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+2.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+page3.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/200,000+page4.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$150,000-$200,000page1.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/20+1.htm FF Listing Brokers on Net http://www.goodearthfairfield.com/ http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/ http://www.c21hayesfairfieldiowa.com/ http://www.davisandpalmerrealestate.com/listings.html http://www.fairfieldiowarealestate.com/ (the above site is currently not working, though it had been up and running for some time. Did they go out of business? They had some MSV homes listed ) Some of the homes listed have been on the market for 6-12 months. I assume most homes would sell for quite discounted offers off the list price. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious what the MSV houses are going for in Ffld. In my neck of the woods, South Florida, Broward county, the median price of a home rose $89,000 over the last year. My wife and I bought our house a little over 4 years ago for $160,000. The same house now sells for $360,000. Talk about appreciation! I don't see the real estate bubble bursting here. Almost all available land has been built-out. The only problem is going to be in the rising interest rates and the financial con of interest free mortgages. What's killing people here are the property taxes on new properties. --- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does anyone out there think about real estate prices in FF and what will happen to them? It seems that not much land is being sold right now maybe the contractors online can address this so that means only those with land already bought and planning to build this year will give any work to the contractors. The architects I assume most who follow MMY are at a crossroads of whether they wait and follow his new direction for Peace Palace Colonies or build exisiting home plans that were once approved to new home builders or if they are on hold. There are 12 or more MSV houses just sitting on the market at unrealistic prices. The smartest seller in town took a loss and moved on the rest are keeping their prices where they need them to be to recoup their exspense but no one will pay or can pay those prices and in the meantime they have taxes to pay and maintenance. Then there is the nationwide bubble they claim will break in the next few years if you read any of the real estate articles in various cities by various percentages. In it it states the things that drive a market to appreicate are jobs, population all the things we dont have and have never have. I wonder how long these various home owners will hold out and when some of them will get real and sell out for anything to cut their loses and move on. Most who are selling are moving away or are financially in trouble or are not empty nesters and did not stop to think 8 years ago who would want their large house fast forward 8years when everyone else was in the same spot plus aging and going to smaller and one story. I could go on and on just wanting to know if anyone thinks about this and what their feelings are. I feel a very big slow down right now. there are always those hopeful for pundits and hopeful for appreciation but those of us on this site know these things will not occur. Are we the only ones? What are these homeowners thinking and what were they thinking when they paid $40 for a one acres or less lot and built these houses? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates H
TurguoiseB writes: At this point I don't think that there IS anything that one can do to bring this appreciation of witnessing about. It's not up to me. And it's not up to any outside agency such as God. It is just what is. Sometimes it's noticeable, sometimes it's not, and it Really Doesn't Matter which is which. Tom T writes: It has been my experience over the last 18 months that the appreciation is the key rather than the witnessing. The understanding that has emerged is that the outward stroke of this appreciation is the continual deepening of the appreciation. The inward stroke (or curving back upon myself) is ever finer levels of intimacy with all of creation. At this point there seems to be no end to how much this physiology can appreciate and how intimate one can be with all of creation. One morning after about 6 months into this finer and finer appreciation it became apparent to me that Mother Divine had consummated this relationship. I lay in bed and was cuddled by the understanding of this consummated relationship. The effect of this deepening is that desires have now been transformed into waves of appreciation. This also answers one of the other threads here about what happens to desires as we deepen into the wholeness. Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'] witnessing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and: what is there about permanent witnessing that is NOT a benchmark of some sort, enlightenment-wise? Permanent witnessing is to enlightenment as having toenails is to being human. Who told you that? Just a tiny part of a larger phenomenon... I remember some sort of a disassociation between what I was doing and my subjective experience of it after a TM in-residence course, and I think that is what you are referring to as witnessing, but honestly I have no desire whatsoever for such an experience again. I certainly would not want to have such an experience permanently!! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
I suspect in the mood you're in at the moment, anything I could say would only piss you off more, so I'll just note that from my perspective, it appears you misread just about everything I wrote. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, I think you take the high road with regards to TM philosophy because it's what you're most comfortable with. Not sure what you mean by take the high road. Not sure what you're getting at in this post generally, but I'll make what comments I can. --I think you define perfectly what 'taking the high road' is, better than any amount of explanation I could provide. Lines such as, Finally, the term I'd use would be metaphysical system rather than philosophy. It's also important that the TM metaphysics has a systematic experiential component, which distinguishes it from a philosophy per se. Actually, the former three paragraphs before the above quote were all pretty, 'high-roadish.' I mean, that you need to tell us, many of whom are MIU grads and such, what Maharishi's system is is sort of like preaching to the choir? Or maybe more like preaching to the molested little boys of the choir? Now think about this. If the philosophy wasn't simple and easy to understand could you really be such an expert on it? That is, could any of us? Well, I dunno. In the first place, I don't consider myself an expert. But whatever degree of mastery I've achieved, I've probably studied MMY's teaching more thoroughly than any other. Maybe I could be as knowledgeable about others if I studied them as much. -Whether you consider yourself a expert is not really true. You obviously consider yourself an expert since you can say such things as, The term scientists use for neat theories is elegant. I think MMY's teaching (Advaita plus Yoga) is incredibly elegant. It shouldn't need much explanation that if you think that Maharishi's system is elegant that means that you also know what inelegant systems look like. Moreover, you even describe elegance in the next paragraph (which I won't quote). Thus assuming that you are ipso fact the judge and jury of philosophical systems, or an expert, at least of their various levels of elegance ;) Considering this stupefying simplicity, could it be anything besides a bit too simple? I'm not sure it's all that easy to understand once you get beyond the basics, first (based on the amount of misunderstanding floating around); and second, I'm not sure simplicity--such as it may be-- is a negative characteristic when it comes to philosophy. Again, you said you didn't consider yourself an expert but you then say that there's a lot of misunderstanding floating around. I wonder if you ever had the Forest Academy on Vedic Science where Maharishi discussed the difference between Vedic Cognition and Vedanga Cognition? The term scientists use for neat theories is elegant. I think MMY's teaching (Advaita plus Yoga) is incredibly elegant. One way of defining elegance in this context would have to do with the proportion of theory to its explanatory value. TM theory has, it seems to me, a tremendous amount of explanatory value contained in a relatively small collection of premises. Finally, the term I'd use would be metaphysical system rather than philosophy. It's also important that the TM metaphysics has a systematic experiential component, which distinguishes it from a philosophy per se. There can be no elegance with regards to an oversimplified collection of tenets regarding life, its nature, or its solutions. There is no Occam's razor with regard to the summum bonum of existance. Paradox cannot be reconciled, and finding Maharishi's system to be advaita disregards the other aspects of Maharishi's teachings such as heavy reliance on Yagyas for solving the various 'problems' of life. As you should well know the advaita of Maharishi is Advaita Vedanta, or the advaita of where the Vedas leave off. That advaita presupposes that the vedas themselves are not in fact the solution to the problems of like, and hence moksha or liberation begins once the Veda ends. This metaphysical advaita that you ascribe to Maharishi, is odd considering that Maharishi, has never even used the word advaita in anything he ever spoke. If I am mistaken then please give us the quote. Over to you...dunno if I've addressed what you were getting at. Frankly I forget as well, at this point. Oh yeah, I suggest that the reason you agree with maharishi at all is because like a coloring book, Maharishi's system of Vedic restructuring is so vague and simple as to let you fill in all the color until it truely becomes you. And I think you have done an admirable job with that. I think it would be an
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing (was 'Former Meditator Creates H
Tom T writes: It has been my experience over the last 18 months that the appreciation is the key rather than the witnessing. The understanding that has emerged is that the outward stroke of this appreciation is the continual deepening of the appreciation. The inward stroke (or curving back upon myself) is ever finer levels of intimacy with all of creation. At this point there seems to be no end to how much this physiology can appreciate and how intimate one can be with all of creation. One morning after about 6 months into this finer and finer appreciation it became apparent to me that Mother Divine had consummated this relationship. I lay in bed and was cuddled by the understanding of this consummated relationship. The effect of this deepening is that desires have now been transformed into waves of appreciation. This also answers one of the other threads here about what happens to desires as we deepen into the wholeness. I can dig that. 'Appreciation' for whatever arises is a much better term than desire, and a much cleaner model for how to interact with creation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dimicks left behind one that are trying to dump for 1.9 million no one has that kind of money. I hear they may surface in a few years but dont want their house with kids being grown at that point but they are paying the taxes and maintenance they might as well live in it . As far as I see no one wants it http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/Dimickpage1.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with identifying ones spiritual state upon anything material whatsoever is that you can't take it with you. snip - Original Message - From: pibssmith To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years Sharalyn. (If shit doesn't hit the fan first) Surely, this is not Sharalyn of Fairfield Community Kiosk fame using such negative words as sh*t!? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'] witnessing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and: what is there about permanent witnessing that is NOT a benchmark of some sort, enlightenment-wise? Permanent witnessing is to enlightenment as having toenails is to being human. Who told you that? Nobody. Like most of the other stuff I write here, it's just something that came to me at the time. You aren't looking for actual profundity, are you? :-) Just a tiny part of a larger phenomenon... I remember some sort of a disassociation between what I was doing and my subjective experience of it after a TM in-residence course, and I think that is what you are referring to as witnessing, but honestly I have no desire whatsoever for such an experience again. I certainly would not want to have such an experience permanently!! I am definitely not referring to any feeling of disassociation. I understand the difference. I'm just using the term 'witnes- sing,' although I don't think much of it, because that was the term being used by others here to label a certain phenom- enon. The phenomenon I have in mind is direct awareness of the transcendent or pure consciousness at the same time one is directly aware of waking, dreaming and sleeping. Having experienced drug-induced disassociation back in the 60s, there is a vast difference between that phenomenon and the one that I thought we were discussing here. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
Now that's a friggin' house! --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dimicks left behind one that are trying to dump for 1.9 million no one has that kind of money. I hear they may surface in a few years but dont want their house with kids being grown at that point but they are paying the taxes and maintenance they might as well live in it . As far as I see no one wants it http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/Dimickpage1.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wonderded if anyone else had similar opinions and seems they do. I definitley feel a major slow down. The rich have left town the ones who built 5 years ago cant afford to stay in their houses due to no jobs, ill health, empty nesters , movment is slowing down for sure , popultion here is shrinking, all of the above. Life changes and you have to really protect any assest you have in FF. All said I would love one of these house just for the fact that it is new and mine is old but at a steal of a deal only as I know I will never recoup that money or very little. lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years that would even buy it. We will all be old going to smaller one story or the assited living home or moving in with each other and taking care of each other and our less fortunate friends and will be poorer most and the movement and schools here and shrinking. One factor that limits exposure and therefore the interest in FF properties is that most properties apparently are not on MLS (multiple listing service) and thus national realty databases such as Reatlor.com don't pick them up. Realtor.com shows only 5 listings for FF, mostly lots. http://realtor.com/FindHome/HomeListings.asp?locallnk=yesfrm=bymapmnbed=0mnbath=0mnprice=0mxprice=js=offpgnum=1lnksrc=fid=somnsqft=mls=xmlsareaid=92855typ=1%2C+2%2C+3%2C+4%2C+5%2C+6%2C+7poe=realtorct=Fairfieldst=IAsbint=vtsort= A lot of people search the country on these data bases looking for value, particularly as west/east coast properties skyrocket well beyond the affordability of most residents (based on income). With greater exposure, FF real estate might be viewed as quite a bargin for some -- retireees, and workers not tied geographically to their jobs (writers, programmers, tele-commuters, etc.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that's a friggin' house! Make Michael an offer. --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dimicks left behind one that are trying to dump for 1.9 million no one has that kind of money. I hear they may surface in a few years but dont want their house with kids being grown at that point but they are paying the taxes and maintenance they might as well live in it . As far as I see no one wants it http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/Dimickpage1.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
Those SV are so over=priced for the Ffld market! --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+2.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+page3.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/200,000+page4.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$150,000-$200,000page1.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/20+1.htm FF Listing Brokers on Net http://www.goodearthfairfield.com/ http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/ http://www.c21hayesfairfieldiowa.com/ http://www.davisandpalmerrealestate.com/listings.html http://www.fairfieldiowarealestate.com/ (the above site is currently not working, though it had been up and running for some time. Did they go out of business? They had some MSV homes listed ) Some of the homes listed have been on the market for 6-12 months. I assume most homes would sell for quite discounted offers off the list price. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious what the MSV houses are going for in Ffld. In my neck of the woods, South Florida, Broward county, the median price of a home rose $89,000 over the last year. My wife and I bought our house a little over 4 years ago for $160,000. The same house now sells for $360,000. Talk about appreciation! I don't see the real estate bubble bursting here. Almost all available land has been built-out. The only problem is going to be in the rising interest rates and the financial con of interest free mortgages. What's killing people here are the property taxes on new properties. --- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does anyone out there think about real estate prices in FF and what will happen to them? It seems that not much land is being sold right now maybe the contractors online can address this so that means only those with land already bought and planning to build this year will give any work to the contractors. The architects I assume most who follow MMY are at a crossroads of whether they wait and follow his new direction for Peace Palace Colonies or build exisiting home plans that were once approved to new home builders or if they are on hold. There are 12 or more MSV houses just sitting on the market at unrealistic prices. The smartest seller in town took a loss and moved on the rest are keeping their prices where they need them to be to recoup their exspense but no one will pay or can pay those prices and in the meantime they have taxes to pay and maintenance. Then there is the nationwide bubble they claim will break in the next few years if you read any of the real estate articles in various cities by various percentages. In it it states the things that drive a market to appreicate are jobs, population all the things we dont have and have never have. I wonder how long these various home owners will hold out and when some of them will get real and sell out for anything to cut their loses and move on. Most who are selling are moving away or are financially in trouble or are not empty nesters and did not stop to think 8 years ago who would want their large house fast forward 8years when everyone else was in the same spot plus aging and going to smaller and one story. I could go on and on just wanting to know if anyone thinks about this and what their feelings are. I feel a very big slow down right now. there are always those hopeful for pundits and hopeful for appreciation but those of us on this site know these things will not occur. Are we the only ones? What are these homeowners thinking and what were they thinking when they paid $40 for a one acres or less lot and built these houses? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' === message truncated === Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that's a friggin' house! Did you check out the arial shots? http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/DimickPage2.htm --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dimicks left behind one that are trying to dump for 1.9 million no one has that kind of money. I hear they may surface in a few years but dont want their house with kids being grown at that point but they are paying the taxes and maintenance they might as well live in it . As far as I see no one wants it http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/Dimickpage1.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
Assume they would accept a $1.2 offer. Mortgage payments would be about 6,000 / mo. Buy the place with 5 friends, each paying $1000 / mo (plus taxes and maintenance - tax deductions). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that's a friggin' house! Make Michael an offer. http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/Dimickpage1.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that's a friggin' house! Make Michael an offer. 1 million even. If he pays me that much I'll take the house off his hands, as long as I don't have to live there, or in the US, period. I'll give most of the million to Buddhist charities I know of and let you guys move into the house if you'll promise to do something about the tacky decor. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
But these are only list prices. Sellers, tired of holding on, and needing cash, could sell for substantial discounts -- pegged to prices of equivalent regular homes. What is the word on ths street. Are SV owners (or any property owners) refusing deep discount offers, e.g. 40% off list? Or is demand so weak that there are not even offers at this level (that is, no buyers can even afford the properties at the discounted levels.? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those SV are so over=priced for the Ffld market! --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+2.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+page3.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/200,000+page4.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$150,000-$200,000page1.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/20+1.htm FF Listing Brokers on Net http://www.goodearthfairfield.com/ http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/ http://www.c21hayesfairfieldiowa.com/ http://www.davisandpalmerrealestate.com/listings.html http://www.fairfieldiowarealestate.com/ (the above site is currently not working, though it had been up and running for some time. Did they go out of business? They had some MSV homes listed ) Some of the homes listed have been on the market for 6-12 months. I assume most homes would sell for quite discounted offers off the list price. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious what the MSV houses are going for in Ffld. In my neck of the woods, South Florida, Broward county, the median price of a home rose $89,000 over the last year. My wife and I bought our house a little over 4 years ago for $160,000. The same house now sells for $360,000. Talk about appreciation! I don't see the real estate bubble bursting here. Almost all available land has been built-out. The only problem is going to be in the rising interest rates and the financial con of interest free mortgages. What's killing people here are the property taxes on new properties. --- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does anyone out there think about real estate prices in FF and what will happen to them? It seems that not much land is being sold right now maybe the contractors online can address this so that means only those with land already bought and planning to build this year will give any work to the contractors. The architects I assume most who follow MMY are at a crossroads of whether they wait and follow his new direction for Peace Palace Colonies or build exisiting home plans that were once approved to new home builders or if they are on hold. There are 12 or more MSV houses just sitting on the market at unrealistic prices. The smartest seller in town took a loss and moved on the rest are keeping their prices where they need them to be to recoup their exspense but no one will pay or can pay those prices and in the meantime they have taxes to pay and maintenance. Then there is the nationwide bubble they claim will break in the next few years if you read any of the real estate articles in various cities by various percentages. In it it states the things that drive a market to appreicate are jobs, population all the things we dont have and have never have. I wonder how long these various home owners will hold out and when some of them will get real and sell out for anything to cut their loses and move on. Most who are selling are moving away or are financially in trouble or are not empty nesters and did not stop to think 8 years ago who would want their large house fast forward 8years when everyone else was in the same spot plus aging and going to smaller and one story. I could go on and on just wanting to know if anyone thinks about this and what their feelings are. I feel a very big slow down right now. there are always those hopeful for pundits and hopeful for appreciation but those of us on this site know these things will not occur. Are we the only ones? What are these homeowners thinking and what were they thinking when they paid $40 for a one acres or less lot and built these houses? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to:
[FairfieldLife] gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop
http://www.wulfmusic.de/WELCOME_SAT_YUGA/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More from Guru Dev
The webpage on which are some rough translations of 'Amrit Kana' - quotations of Guru Dev, can be accessed more directly by using the following link. http://www.paulmason.info/x/AKroughttrans.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The text of 'Amrit Kana'(Droplets of the Nectar of Immortality) - a compilation of quotations from Guru Dev (Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati) is currently being translated into English. Responding to interest in this work I have created a link so that anyone interested can see the work-in-progress text but it should be noted that this text is only in a very formative state at present. It is an onging project and will be frequently updated and improved. Link to translation http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm#amrit To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years Sharalyn. (If shit doesn't hit the fan first)Surely, this is not Sharalyn of Fairfield Community Kiosk fame using such negative words as "sh*t"!?---It's an answer to the question. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
I suspect in the mood you're in at the moment,anything I could say would only piss you offmore, so I'll just note that from my perspective,it appears you misread just about everythingI wrote. Strange you perceive me that way. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Judy, I think you take the high road with regards to TM philosophy because it's what you're most comfortable with. Not sure what you mean by "take the high road." Not sure what you're getting at in this post generally, but I'll make what comments I can. --I think you define perfectly what 'taking the high road' is, better than any amount of explanation I could provide. Lines such as, "Finally, the term I'd use would be "metaphysical system" rather than "philosophy." It's also important that the TM metaphysics has a systematic experiential component, which distinguishes it from a philosophy per se."Actually, the former three paragraphs before the above quote were all pretty, 'high-roadish.' I mean, that you need to tell us, many of whom are MIU grads and such, what Maharishi's system is is sort of like preaching to the choir? Or maybe more like preaching to the molested little boys of the choir? Now think about this. If the philosophy wasn't simple and easy to understand could you really be such an expert on it? That is, could any of us? Well, I dunno. In the first place, I don't consider myself an "expert." But whatever degree of mastery I've achieved, I've probably studied MMY's teaching more thoroughly than any other. Maybe I could be as knowledgeable about others if I studied them as much. -Whether you consider yourself a expert is not really true. You obviously consider yourself an expert since you can say such things as, "The term scientists use for neat theories is "elegant." I think MMY's teaching (Advaita plus Yoga) is incredibly elegant." It shouldn't need much explanation that if you think that Maharishi's system is elegant that means that you also know what inelegant systems look like. Moreover, you even describe elegance in the next paragraph (which I won't quote). Thus assuming that you are ipso fact the judge and jury of philosophical systems, or an expert, at least of their various levels of elegance ;) Considering this stupefying simplicity, could it be anything besides a bit too simple? I'm not sure it's all that easy to understand once you get beyond the basics, first (based on the amount of misunderstanding floating around); and second, I'm not sure simplicity--such as it may be-- is a negative characteristic when it comes to philosophy. Again, you said you didn't consider yourself an expert but you then say that there's a lot of "misunderstanding floating around." I wonder if you ever had the Forest Academy on Vedic Science where Maharishi discussed the difference between Vedic Cognition and Vedanga Cognition? The term scientists use for neat theories is "elegant." I think MMY's teaching (Advaita plus Yoga) is incredibly elegant. One way of defining "elegance" in this context would have to do with the proportion of theory to its explanatory value. TM theory has, it seems to me, a tremendous amount of explanatory value contained in a relatively small collection of premises. Finally, the term I'd use would be "metaphysical system" rather than "philosophy." It's also important that the TM metaphysics has a systematic experiential component, which distinguishes it from a philosophy per se. There can be no elegance with regards to an oversimplified collection of tenets regarding life, its nature, or its solutions. There is no Occam's razor with regard to the summum bonum of existance. Paradox cannot be reconciled, and finding Maharishi's system to be advaita disregards the other aspects of Maharishi's teachings such as heavy reliance on Yagyas for solving the various 'problems' of life. As you should well know the advaita of Maharishi is Advaita Vedanta, or the advaita of where the Vedas leave off. That advaita presupposes that the vedas themselves are not in fact the solution to the problems of like, and hence moksha or liberation begins once the Veda ends. This "metaphysical" advaita that you ascribe to Maharishi, is odd considering that Maharishi, has never even used the word advaita in anything he ever spoke. If I am mistaken then please give us the quote.Over to you...dunno if I've addressed what you were getting at. Frankly I forget as well, at this point. Oh yeah, I suggest that the reason you agree with maharishi at all is because like a coloring book, Maharishi's system of Vedic restructuring is so vague and simple as to let you fill in all the color until it truely becomes you. And I think you have done an admirable job with that. I think it would
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you don't think any of MMY's teaching about the nature of realization is accurate or useful from the vantage point of ignorance? No, I don't, particularly. Rather, at a certain point it appears to allow one to more or less happily remain in ignorance, locked into a conceptual framework of other-than-now and a belief in fully automatic, painless, effortless, mythical enlightenment by-and-by, measuring oneself by our ideas of criteria set by others, not by those actual criteria honestly set by oneself. In other words, seen from one vantage point it appears to be truly magnificent at keeping many people asleep. While the description of the states of consciousness is stunningly beautiful, even this at best is a conceptual fairy-tale :-) Never been said better. Thank you. A thousand or so messages earlier I noticed that a lot of the 'newly awakened' didn't get that way until they left the TMO and/or TM. I find this interesting. I seems that TM provides a good platform that sometimes needs to be jumped off of...Rory is spot on! And possibly it's the jumping off itself that acts as the catalyst for realization, rather than what it is the student is jumping off *of*. snip Walking away means finally coming to trust oneself and one's intuition more than one trusts outside authorities or lineage or tradition. That trust may be the catalyst IMO. Thanks - hadn't thought of it that way before - makes sense. It is a curious phenomena. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suspect in the mood you're in at the moment, anything I could say would only piss you off more, so I'll just note that from my perspective, it appears you misread just about everything I wrote. Strange you perceive me that way. Oh? snip Personally, I am only really about liberation. All the fancy houses, gigantic penile monuments, gigantic penile crowning adventures, huge spurting yagyas and other phallic overkill I can perform myself, on a scale I can live with. Maybe being a woman, you are attracted, however, to the grandious. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop
Oh I get it. No more black people. Yeah that figures. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:37 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop http://www.wulfmusic.de/WELCOME_SAT_YUGA/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
It's friggin house allrightin the middle of nowhere. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:15 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Now that's a friggin' house!Did you check out the arial shots?http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/DimickPage2.htm --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Dimicks left behind one that are trying to dump for 1.9 million no one has that kind of money. I hearthey may surface in a few years but dont want their house with kidsbeing grown at that point but they are paying the taxes andmaintenance they might as well live in it . As far as I see no one wants it http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/dimick/Dimickpage1.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
- Original Message - From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...' I suspect in the mood you're in at the moment,anything I could say would only piss you offmore, so I'll just note that from my perspective,it appears you misread just about everythingI wrote. -I guess it seems like I was mean. But I wasn't trying to be. I just think you sell yourself short. Often on purpose, or just for the sake of argument. Or so it seems to me after a thread goes on in circles for close to 200 posts. I mean. At the very least it's sort of masochistic. Or sadistic. Again, I'm not angry. I honestly don't know why you thought that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years Sharalyn. (If shit doesn't hit the fan first) Surely, this is not Sharalyn of Fairfield Community Kiosk fame using such negative words as sh*t!? She means sh*t as in manure, that which nourishes the pretty flowers, which symbolize the beautiful unfolding of life in sat yuga bliss. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh I get it. No more black people. Yeah that figures. Funny. I noticed an almost total absence of young people. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:37 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop http://www.wulfmusic.de/WELCOME_SAT_YUGA/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years Sharalyn. (If shit doesn't hit the fan first) Surely, this is not Sharalyn of Fairfield Community Kiosk fame using such negative words as sh*t!? She means sh*t as in manure, that which nourishes the pretty flowers, which symbolize the beautiful unfolding of life in sat yuga bliss. lolnow, I understand.as usual, it is me seeing negativity when it is not even there, not Sharalyn expressing negativity To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Holland Rumore
Latest rumor right off the airplanes from Holland is that MMY wants 2000 persons living in Vedic City immediately and told Raja Wynne to errect some prefab houses immeditely not waiting for them to be claimed just build and they shall come attitude. Also he wants 500 to fly in the dome for an hour then 500 more an hour after that. Those figures are about are whole Ru and non townie Population. And I dont see many conforming wonder if we will get shut down like England. How many times have these crazy plans been executed? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with identifying ones spiritual state upon anything material whatsoever is that you can't take it with you. snip - Original Message - From: pibssmith To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years Sharalyn. (If shit doesn't hit the fan first) Surely, this is not Sharalyn of Fairfield Community Kiosk fame using such negative words as sh*t!? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Expectations
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is a desire without expectation? A desire without expectation means dedication to work on the desire without expectation of outcome. I have intense desire to heal myself, but less attachment to the outcome. It is like enjoying the journey itself. Expectations are limiting because you cannot know the outcome. Expecting certain kind of outcome disturbs your walking attentively with open eyes. Your perception gets distorted and rigid. Especially healing means opening of new pathways and perceptions. You cannot know them in forward. It is tiny experiences of healing and aliveness in the present moment that gradually accumulates to results I don't know in forward. Irmeli Thata a fine rap as unc would say. But it has little to do with the question I posed in the original post (at end). Not to say that you need to address my points -- you are free to go off on your own thoughts and tangents. But you certainly did not address the central point of my post, if thats what you intended to do. I am not against giving up expectations in many contexts. I am asking what remains of a desire if there is no expectation. Perhaps reread what I wrote in the original post below. A desire seems tied to some thought of an outcome. If there is no thought of outcome, there is no desire, there is only an impulse towards action. If there is no expectation, it implies all outcomes are random. If so, then what is the role of desire? If I desire to watch a DVD movie, but if the action of opening the refrigerator, taking a nap or turning on the DVD player all have the equal random probability of producing a movie, then the link between desire and outcome is so weak, I hold one would lose desire. If I have no credible and repeatable way to play a movie, then why desire it. Its like a desire to be a trillionaire. I have no credible way of becoming one, so the desire is not really there. I have no credible way of dating Heather Graham, so I don't really desire it. I have no credible way of becoming President of the United States, at this point in my life, so I don't really desire it. Beyond this theme, is another absurdity in the idea of giving up expectations It can can go to abusrd levels if taken to all contexts. If all actions and outcomes are just random, for example, if you walk towards a wall, do you hold thre is an equal probability that you will walk through it as being bumped by it? The very basis of rational thought, inquiry, scientific method and understanding of nature is the systematic study of what outcomes occur when particular actions are take. And the EXPECTATION that the outcomes will repeat themselves when the action is repeated. For example, when you turn on the light switch, do you not have an expectation of light? I have this image, not of you, but the image becomes comic, seeing a new-age, daffy type girl (Lisa Kudrow's character Phoebe on Friends perhaps) turning on the lightswitch and going, well, what ever happens is total kewl. I don't really expect the light to go on, or to stay off. I am just playing with the switch, clicking it, another random act with any number of possible random outcomes. la de da. The universe will do what the universe will do. (well maybe thats a bit to involved for phoebe.) So my thoughts are: 1) Giving up expectations for uncontrollable actions/outcomes is a good thing. 2) When expectations are given up for actions that have uncontrollable outcomes, then the ensuing link to desire is weakened and desire shivels to an impotent form, or dissappears altogether. 3) The process of identifying the link between actions and outcomes, and EXPECTING these found dis covered links to be repeateable, and having an expectation they will repeatly occur when the causal action is taken, is a good thing, and the basis of science and technology. What are your thoughts on such? --- What is a desire without expectation? It seems, at best, to be a eunuch desire. Or a paraplaegic desire. If there is no expectation, then there is no link between an impulse towards action and its result. Desires in that context appear empty, phantom, vacuous. I am not questioning the beauty of letting go of expectations -- and all of its offspring such as judgements. (How can you judge a person if you have no expectations of their behavior?) I don't see how desires exist (or last very long) without expectations. Without expectation, what remains are impulses towards activity. Do that which ought to be done captures part of that mode but can imply a moral authority. Its more Do that which ought to be done -- the 'ought' not being dictated by some moral authority or code, but from rational analysis, common sense and sometimes intuition. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
Sellers are refusing to take less. But these are only list prices. Sellers, tired of holding on, and needing cash, could sell for substantial discounts -- pegged to prices of equivalent regular homes. What is the word on ths street. Are SV owners (or any property owners) refusing deep discount offers, e.g. 40% off list? Or is demand so weak that there are not even offers at this level (that is, no buyers can even afford the properties at the discounted levels.? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those SV are so over=priced for the Ffld market! --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+2.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+page3.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/200,000+page4.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$150,000-$200,000page1.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/20+1.htm FF Listing Brokers on Net http://www.goodearthfairfield.com/ http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/ http://www.c21hayesfairfieldiowa.com/ http://www.davisandpalmerrealestate.com/listings.html http://www.fairfieldiowarealestate.com/ (the above site is currently not working, though it had been up and running for some time. Did they go out of business? They had some MSV homes listed ) Some of the homes listed have been on the market for 6-12 months. I assume most homes would sell for quite discounted offers off the list price. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious what the MSV houses are going for in Ffld. In my neck of the woods, South Florida, Broward county, the median price of a home rose $89,000 over the last year. My wife and I bought our house a little over 4 years ago for $160,000. The same house now sells for $360,000. Talk about appreciation! I don't see the real estate bubble bursting here. Almost all available land has been built-out. The only problem is going to be in the rising interest rates and the financial con of interest free mortgages. What's killing people here are the property taxes on new properties. --- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does anyone out there think about real estate prices in FF and what will happen to them? It seems that not much land is being sold right now maybe the contractors online can address this so that means only those with land already bought and planning to build this year will give any work to the contractors. The architects I assume most who follow MMY are at a crossroads of whether they wait and follow his new direction for Peace Palace Colonies or build exisiting home plans that were once approved to new home builders or if they are on hold. There are 12 or more MSV houses just sitting on the market at unrealistic prices. The smartest seller in town took a loss and moved on the rest are keeping their prices where they need them to be to recoup their exspense but no one will pay or can pay those prices and in the meantime they have taxes to pay and maintenance. Then there is the nationwide bubble they claim will break in the next few years if you read any of the real estate articles in various cities by various percentages. In it it states the things that drive a market to appreicate are jobs, population all the things we dont have and have never have. I wonder how long these various home owners will hold out and when some of them will get real and sell out for anything to cut their loses and move on. Most who are selling are moving away or are financially in trouble or are not empty nesters and did not stop to think 8 years ago who would want their large house fast forward 8years when everyone else was in the same spot plus aging and going to smaller and one story. I could go on and on just wanting to know if anyone thinks about this and what their feelings are. I feel a very big slow down right now. there are always those hopeful for pundits and hopeful for appreciation but those of us on this site know these things will not occur. Are we the only ones? What are these homeowners thinking and what were they thinking when they paid
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop
Nothing that might impinge upon perfect bliss. Pratyekabuddhas...rich onesmay they be happy...la la l a aalalalaalla - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: Oh I get it. No more black people. Yeah that figures.Funny. I noticed an almost total absence of young people. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:37 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop http://www.wulfmusic.de/WELCOME_SAT_YUGA/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More from Guru Dev
Thank you, Paul, for the great work you have done here, It is so blissful to read the quotations of Guru Dev! Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The webpage on which are some rough translations of 'Amrit Kana' - quotations of Guru Dev, can be accessed more directly by using the following link. http://www.paulmason.info/x/AKroughttrans.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The text of 'Amrit Kana'(Droplets of the Nectar of Immortality) - a compilation of quotations from Guru Dev (Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati) is currently being translated into English. Responding to interest in this work I have created a link so that anyone interested can see the work-in-progress text but it should be noted that this text is only in a very formative state at present. It is an onging project and will be frequently updated and improved. Link to translation http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm#amrit To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Holland Rumore
How many times have these crazy plans been executed? -Speaking of executions. Maybe a couple human sacrifices to Kali would really get the numbers there. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'] witnessing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The phenomenon I have in mind is direct awareness of the transcendent or pure consciousness at the same time one is directly aware of waking, dreaming and sleeping. That sounds awfully convoluted to me. Is it an escape from suffering? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suspect in the mood you're in at the moment, anything I could say would only piss you off more, so I'll just note that from my perspective, it appears you misread just about everything I wrote. Strange you perceive me that way. Oh? snip Personally, I am only really about liberation. All the fancy houses, gigantic penile monuments, gigantic penile crowning adventures, huge spurting yagyas and other phallic overkill I can perform myself, on a scale I can live with. Maybe being a woman, you are attracted, however, to the grandious. That's not a mean thing to say if it's true. There's no way I could know that. It's sexist and belittling. And not only could you not know that, you have to reason to even *suspect* that. I haven't been promoting any of MMY's grandiosities. They certainly aren't the aspect of TM I find interesting or admirable. We're all friends here right? Well, many of us are! I mean, it's like with men with big guns, big hats, freaky ties, men who carry huge rolls of cash. That's all about sexual displacement. Men who are OK with their sexuality need not show any telltale signs of their masculinity. So conversely, would you be satisfied with a guru who had only five followers, erected no monuments, had no books, had taught only one thing, but that thing well. Etc... It's just a theory. If his or her teaching suited me as well as MMY's does, sure. In reality there's nothing that isn't about sex, either outright or on a subtle level. God is the Lingam, and the Yoni, etc... Maybe so, but personally I'd rather talk about sex *qua* sex and talk about other things in terms of whatever they're about other than sex. Sometimes it's interesting to make the connection, but if all you do is reduce everything to sex, it gets boring, IMHO. snip More simply, the person who wants to erect, or who respects huge buildings feels powerless, as if they couldn't attain a hard-on. Much of this could be penis envy. I'm not much of a psychologist. It's a pretty common speculation. New Yorkers often refer to Donald Trump's building projects as his erections, intending the double meaning. I'm sorry, I just feel that since you argue circles with people that you need some counseling. It's not that I'm mad or hateful, even. Just curious what the need is to be right like that? I enjoy debating. It's exercise for the brain. I also think when folks are trying to figure out what's what, as most of us are, it helps to get as many things as we can as right as possible. (Fantasizing and speculating wildly are fun too, but they shouldn't be confused with figuring out what's what. Although sometimes one does lead to the other.) But why would you think enjoying debate is a malady that requires counseling? Or maybe you argue with Barry because you really hate him. Don't get me started on why I argue with Barry. snip Not recognizing sexuality as all pervasive is ignoring laws which superceed any creed of dvaita or advaita. OK, so let's stipulate that sexuality is all-pervasive. Now what? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Oil Depletion and the Collapse of the American Dream
anonymousff wrote: more: Ours is a gluttonous society predicated on cheap, plentiful and dependable fossil fuels. But analysis of world oil reserves (particularly those in the Middle East) raises the specter that production has peaked and, in the years ahead, supply will decline. Some predict the drop will be precipitous and could well plunge the world into chaos. We don't have a Plan B to replace the lost oil production, the documentary notes. Made by Toronto filmmakers Gregory Greene and Barry Silverthorn, The End of Suburbia challenges the notions that the oil won't run out and we can continue to drive our SUVs and live in far-flung neighborhoods without concern. SUBURBAN WAY OF LIFE EMBEDDED IN OUR CONSCIOUSNESS The documentary lays out its arguments provocatively, noting that since World War II, North Americans have invested much of their newfound wealth in suburbia, with its abundant promise of wide open space, affordability, family life and upward mobility. As the population of suburban sprawl has exploded in the past 50 years, so too the suburban way of life has become embedded in the North American consciousness. WE'RE SLAVES TO PETROLEUM Our North American dependence on petroleum makes us utterly slave to it. We heat our homes with fossil fuels, we eat food grown and transported with the assistance of fossil fuels, we watch televisions and use computers powered with electricity generated by fossil fuels. Worldwide, there are now 600 million internal combustion engine vehicles on the roads, and a third of them are operating in the United States. Americans who live in suburbs typically drive 50 to 100 miles round trip each day to get to work, to shop and to play. North Americans use a highly disproportionate amount of the world's resources. The United States contains just 4 percent of the world's population, but gobbles up 25 percent of its oil. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that such massive use of non-renewable resources is just not sustainable. It's in everybody's interest to maintain the façade that this way of life is normal… and we should continue buying and consuming like there is no tomorrow. Says author Richard Heinberg. The issue of energy resource depletion has been largely ignored by the mainstream media because, as he puts it, there's no upside for them. If they decide to tell the people of North America that in fact we are running out of the very resources that fuel economic growth, does that make anybody's stock price go up, except for a few tiny niche companies that make solar panels and wind turbines? Finding other solutions won't be easy because we've yet to find an energy source as efficient as oil. Hydrogen and ethanol, touted as potential replacements for oil, take more energy to create than they deliver. Hydrogen, after all, isn't even a form of energy, but a form of energy storage, created with electricity and water. The electricity has to be generated using some form of energy-typically fossil fuels. SLUMS OF THE FUTURE As less oil is pumped from the ground and prices surge ever upward, driven by the forces of supply and demand, the documentary predicts the property values of suburban homes will plummet. There will be a great scramble to flee what Kunstler calls the slums of the future. The documentary postulates that the answer to the coming oil shortage and the imminent collapse of industrial civilization, at least partly, resides in new urbanism. It is the re-establishment of the sorts of elements that comprised great cities in the days before the internal combustion engine. Local retail clusters, walkable neighborhoods, work and living spaces in closer proximity and local energy generation are all ingredients for sustainable urban living for the age after fossil fuels. The Canadian film has been making the rounds on the festival circuit and has already sold nearly 5,000 copies on DVD and video. Nearly 10 percent of the sales have gone to California, where urban sprawl, air pollution from the state's millions of vehicles and a fragile electrical energy grid are hot button issues. The success and popularity of recent documentaries (like Fahrenheit 9/11) have opened the door a little wider for alternative media, producer Silverthorn says. People are not getting what they need from the corporate media, which sadly lacks balance and challenge and we've been delighted at the response to our film. For more information and to order copies of the documentary, visit http://www.endofsuburbia.com/. If you'd like to offer your thoughts, please drop me an email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] For information on reprints of previously published articles, check out my Web site at http://www.lawrenceherzog.com. Peak Oil is nothing new, it was first a topic back in the early 20th century. That's when the Brits and the US began courting the Arabs for their oil. It's interesting how people
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sellers are refusing to take less. What is the status of most sellers? Have they moved out of town? If so, they probably need the equity to buy a new home elsewhere. How long can they hold out as their lives move on. Are they in town but need cash? How long can they hold out? How is the job market in FF? Downsizing as kids move away? How many new families are forming vs. those becoming empty nesters? How is the demand for housing? How many kids are staying in FF? How many are moving in to FF compared to migrating out? What the rhe expectations for long run price increases or decreases? What is the demand for SV houses? How many in FF are willing to pay much of a premium for such? Maybe 5-10%? But 50-100%??? If or as prices decline in other areas, if/as housing price bubble pops or slowly deflates, how will prices hold up in FF? How does credibility gap of TMO and jadenizing of TMOers bode for the growth or decline of the FF population. For example, how many were holding out for the pundits? Assuming the pundits don't come in any numbers, will FF become less attractive for some residents? I would assume most of the answers are stacked against sellers holding out for a firm, unrealistic price. It would seem that as some/more decide to sell at deep discounts, it will put a downward pressure on prices as the clearing price is established and comps are established at new, lower levels. But these are only list prices. Sellers, tired of holding on, and needing cash, could sell for substantial discounts -- pegged to prices of equivalent regular homes. What is the word on ths street. Are SV owners (or any property owners) refusing deep discount offers, e.g. 40% off list? Or is demand so weak that there are not even offers at this level (that is, no buyers can even afford the properties at the discounted levels.? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those SV are so over=priced for the Ffld market! --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+2.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+page3.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/200,000+page4.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'] witnessing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The phenomenon I have in mind is direct awareness of the transcendent or pure consciousness at the same time one is directly aware of waking, dreaming and sleeping. That sounds awfully convoluted to me. Is it an escape from suffering? I guess you could consider it that, if you consider waking, dreaming and sleeping to be suffering. Since I don't, I consider it a neat addition to those things. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'
OK, so let's stipulate that sexuality isall-pervasive.Now what?It makes much circular arguing seem masturbatory. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
All of the reasons you stated our ture. Probably most financial and nojobs a long time coming. aFter not working a few years or trying to start some biz they have finally gotten realistic they have to move . Most are moving or at least need the cash out of their house but still are not realistic and obviously not yet that desperate or they would list for less. One couple just listed their refurbished house for a decent price not SV but East and North entrance ran their own 1/4 age in the local Ru paper and sold it price $169 what they acutally sold it for dont know yet but I am sure less. That price range still works if the place is nice. But most of the SV houses are over $300 and $400 and according to the top realtor in town here only a few of those sell per year sometimes one per year depending on the year. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sellers are refusing to take less. What is the status of most sellers? Have they moved out of town? If so, they probably need the equity to buy a new home elsewhere. How long can they hold out as their lives move on. Are they in town but need cash? How long can they hold out? How is the job market in FF? Downsizing as kids move away? How many new families are forming vs. those becoming empty nesters? How is the demand for housing? How many kids are staying in FF? How many are moving in to FF compared to migrating out? What the rhe expectations for long run price increases or decreases? What is the demand for SV houses? How many in FF are willing to pay much of a premium for such? Maybe 5-10%? But 50-100%??? If or as prices decline in other areas, if/as housing price bubble pops or slowly deflates, how will prices hold up in FF? How does credibility gap of TMO and jadenizing of TMOers bode for the growth or decline of the FF population. For example, how many were holding out for the pundits? Assuming the pundits don't come in any numbers, will FF become less attractive for some residents? I would assume most of the answers are stacked against sellers holding out for a firm, unrealistic price. It would seem that as some/more decide to sell at deep discounts, it will put a downward pressure on prices as the clearing price is established and comps are established at new, lower levels. But these are only list prices. Sellers, tired of holding on, and needing cash, could sell for substantial discounts -- pegged to prices of equivalent regular homes. What is the word on ths street. Are SV owners (or any property owners) refusing deep discount offers, e.g. 40% off list? Or is demand so weak that there are not even offers at this level (that is, no buyers can even afford the properties at the discounted levels.? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those SV are so over=priced for the Ffld market! --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More SV homes http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+2.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/$200,000+page3.htm http://www.heartlandfairfield.com/200,000+page4.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip How does credibility gap of TMO and jadenizing of TMOers bode for the growth or decline of the FF population. For example, how many were holding out for the pundits? Assuming the pundits don't come in any numbers, will FF become less attractive for some residents? Jadenizing, sounds like an exotic wood finish or something! And what about those pundits? Wasn't the word on the street that they were going to show-up any day? I've never seen such a manipulative con played on so many nice people. Really quite the shame. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Holland Rumore
MMY has gone mental! Love that ol' cosmic coot, but he's gone off his cosmic rocker! --- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Latest rumor right off the airplanes from Holland is that MMY wants 2000 persons living in Vedic City immediately and told Raja Wynne to errect some prefab houses immeditely not waiting for them to be claimed just build and they shall come attitude. Also he wants 500 to fly in the dome for an hour then 500 more an hour after that. Those figures are about are whole Ru and non townie Population. And I dont see many conforming wonder if we will get shut down like England. How many times have these crazy plans been executed? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with identifying ones spiritual state upon anything material whatsoever is that you can't take it with you. snip - Original Message - From: pibssmith To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll lets face it even if things were different who is going to be around in 20 years Sharalyn. (If shit doesn't hit the fan first) Surely, this is not Sharalyn of Fairfield Community Kiosk fame using such negative words as sh*t!? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Real Estate in FF Poll
--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that's a friggin' house! Make Michael an offer. 1 million even. If he pays me that much I'll take the house off his hands, as long as I don't have to live there, or in the US, period. I'll give most of the million to Buddhist charities I know of and let you guys move into the house if you'll promise to do something about the tacky decor. Prissy decor, yes? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: 'Former Meditator Creates High-Tech Enlightenment...'] witnessing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The phenomenon I have in mind is direct awareness of the transcendent or pure consciousness at the same time one is directly aware of waking, dreaming and sleeping. That sounds awfully convoluted to me. Is it an escape from suffering? I guess you could consider it that, if you consider waking, dreaming and sleeping to be suffering. Since I don't, I consider it a neat addition to those things. :-) Just curious, how's the weather in your part of France? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: gurupurnima celebration in vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What freaky images! Loved them. The pictures look as if they were shot with a hidden, low-resolution camera, then had the colors amped to give them that hand-painted, surreal quality. The aged quality of the participants gives the event the air of a tontine. The last one standing wins. - Patrick Gillam --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.wulfmusic.de/WELCOME_SAT_YUGA/ Looks like a rather stilted cocktail party without the liquor...I'm sure a good time was had by all though. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
