[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: Turq, I am unable to keep up these conversations in real time, but I have some comments in the exchanges below. Dude, that subject is so last week by now. What you are asking about are multiple experiences that I had with these teachers, several times a week or month, for years. Some felt subjectively similar, some different. I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into it with you in any more depth than that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: Turq, I am unable to keep up these conversations in real time, but I have some comments in the exchanges below. I'll follow up a little, now that I've had my coffee, and try to explain to you why I'm not following up any more than I am. You are a newb here, and unaware to some extent of the history of this place. There are a few people here whose idea of fun is having conversations that resemble two bulldogs tugging at the same bone. They can go on and on and on and on about the things they debate. Some have been known to try to draw out such discussions for weeks, or longer. It's almost as if they believe that someone can win or prove themselves right about matters of pure opinion (as, IMO, all assertions of spiritual 'truth' are). This is just not my idea of fun. I prefer throwing out ideas, for no other purpose than playing with them, and to see whether anyone else can have fun playing with them, too. The conversations I like the best are largely composed of what some would demonize as non-sequiturs, where one person throws out Idea A, the next jumps to Idea Z because he or she sees a link between the two, and the third maybe jumps to Idea M. I see no need to pursue the forms of traditional, linear debate when discussing ideas for fun. You strike me as being somewhat of the bulldog mentality. That's fine, if it floats yer boat, but please don't expect it to float mine. When I get a whiff of someone who seems to want to lock horns and turn what could be a pleasant, short-lived exchange of opinions into a long, protracted exchange or debate, my first impulse is to blow the person off and do something more interesting, like washing my socks. I understand that you have questions about the experiences I presented *for informational purposes only*, and I wish you luck in finding answers to them. I have none for you. I am not selling anything here, least of all my opinion as anything but opinion. IMO none of my ideas are worth forming attachments to, and none are worth defending. As for your comments about me reacting to either criticism or appreciation of what I write the same way (not at all), that in my opinion is a compliment. Thank you for noticing. You may see these things differently, and that is your right. Might I suggest, if you want to get into long, protracted discussions here, that you pick someone on this forum who enjoys such things. I do not. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: Nice idea. I have never encountered this, although I have encountered one teacher that could in the space of a few days get a fair number of persons to experience a shift in SOC, if only temporary, but it was not like a broadcast. If you have encountered such teachers of the second kind, do they have names? Yes, but they would do you no good. Two of the four I've met are now dead, and the other two I have heard went back to Bhutan, and are no longer working with non-Bhutanese or non-Tibetan students. They gave work- ing with Westerners a shot on teaching tours and (from what I am told) now prefer to work only with people who can make a longer-term commitment. They didn't like the drop in approach. And what are the mechanics behind the ability to broadcast an SOC? I have no earthly idea. I report only on my subjective experience of working with these teachers. I am asking this because your description makes it sound like a radio broadcast - a mental projection or something like that? Something like that. Or, as I have suggested in the past about darshan, being able to put on a SOC so powerfully that others in the audience could be in the same room and somehow recognize in the teacher's SOC the counterpart of a matching SOC that was within them, just not realized yet, and as a result access it. That's a more non-doing theory, but this is pure spec- ulation on my part. I have no idea how it was done, only *that* it was done. It makes me think of something like in old science fiction movies (say 1940) where the doctor says If I can just get to the laboratory I can create a ray which will change his SOC. It sounds completely science fictiony, until you have experienced it. Having done so does not make it in the least more understandable or less fantastic; but you've had the subjective experience. With the material you presented here, it seems like you could have just made this up. I could have, but I didn't. On the other hand, if it pleases you to consider it fiction, that is your right and I won't spend even the tiniest bit of effort trying to convince you otherwise. I don't understand it myself; I just experienced it. And clearly I'm not attempting to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: I agree - this is odd, to say the least - that your Master (at the time) would not say something to you quietly just to acknowledge the experience you were having. It never occurred to me before that MMY seemed not to talk to people one on one about their experiences. When I had one of my more major experiences, I was late to get to the lecture hall in Humboldt (could not figure out how to come out of meditation since I thought I had to cause the experience to end before opening my eyes! Finally just gave up, opened my eyes, and went to the cafeteria anyway). So I was late to dinner and then showed up at the lecture hall about 15 minutes into the talk he was giving. I was still having the experience, just the beginning of a fade. I walked in the door way at the back of this huge hall, and it seemed to me that just as I entered MMY turned his head and looked right over at me, right in the eye and nodded - I felt he knew exactly what I was experiencing and nodded to say so. That could have all been wishful thinking. But I continue to think he knew. I had an experience once, and I don't know if it was real or imagined. But I had the intent desire that MMY acknowledge me, or recognize me in some manner. It was a time when I was with him personally in a course setting, and I recall that he looked over at me, and began laughing. As I said, looking back on it, I don't know if it was real or not. If I were pressed on the issue, I would say it happened. When I tried to have his attention or acknowledgment that he even knew I excisted, or during times of bliss when I tried to seek his approoval, he ignored me. Then suddenly, when I was doing something right (apparently) he would give shaktipat resulting in 4-5 days of the most intense bliss and 24/7 wakefullness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of seventhray1 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 10:56 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: There's a big sign up in the dome saying that anybody caught helping any saint will have their dome badge taken away. Way to go MUM. Another bullet in the foot. Well, give them credit. They didn't say anything about the saint helping anybody. But let me ask you a question Rick. Do you feel you have unresolved anger towards the TMO. This is not a rhetorical question. I would like to know. And yes, I think that there is anger that bleeds through in your feelings about the TMO. Yes, a bit. But part of it is that I sincerely would like to see MUM thrive. I devoted 25 years of my life to the movement. I think TM can be of great value for people, as the David Lynch Foundation continues to prove. I think it's a pity that the movement continues to sabotage its own interests by behaving like a blinking cult. But everyone does the best they can, so it's silly of me to expect anyone to do anything other than what they do. Nice answer, your sincerity shines through. For me it's obvious that Maharishi decided to have a bunch of idiots surrounding and close to him for a reason. Old and new generation Nazis, narcissists of the worst order, powerhungry egomanics in all fields of life, dictators etcetc. To save the world and bring on the Sunshine of the Anlightenment he invited them into the TMO for self-healing, and it worked. That he was able to stay alive for so long surrounded by such energies is in itself a miracle.
[FairfieldLife] A few Good Books
Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Thanks for your reply. I have nothing to say about it because, after all, what is there to say? It was your subjective experience and thus essentially valid; there is nothing I or anyone can say about a subjective exper- ience other than That's cool, or Whatever. :-) As I said, from my side I never experienced anything similar with him. Once, in fact, in Fiuggi, I was curious as to whether he'd notice anything different in *my* SOC because I'd been witnessing 24/7 for about a week, my subjective experience pretty much mapping one to one to his descriptions of CC. As it turned out, at the height of this experience he was giving advanced techniques and I got to go up and sit by his side, literally at his feet, and have him spend a few minutes with me one on one, talking to me first and then giving me the advanced technique. He didn't notice a thing. From my side, I didn't notice any change between full- on witnessing and that profound, everpresent silence you spoke of before while sitting a foot away from him, or during, or after. No effect whatsoever, and as I said, he didn't notice any change in my SOC from his side. There was a line of others waiting for their techniques so I didn't bother him with any questions at that time, and before I had a chance to do so the experiences had faded and my questions and any confirmation from him would have been irrelevant. I've actually heard the same experience from others. At the height of their highest experiences, mapping from their perspective one to one to his descriptions of CC, they got to be close to Maharishi and he never noticed. So much for the notion of like knows like. Either that or he really didn't care enough about his students to notice them, period. Or any other explan- ation you prefer. I agree - this is odd, to say the least - that your Master (at the time) would not say something to you quietly just to acknowledge the experience you were having. Thank you again for yet another thoughtful reply. Yes, that thought occurred to me, even at the time. And yet. And yet I was at that point -- 5 months into rounding and not yet made a TM teacher -- such a TB that I found ways to write off this experience as Not Particularly Significant. I mean, what could be significant about it? One of his students having subjectively realized the goal he'd been selling all this time? Even if the student was just experiencing early on experiences of the enlight- enment process and not fully established in CC, if you were a Maha Rishi, shouldn't you have noticed? And yet. At the time, I was such a TB that I felt that any fault -- if there was one -- had to be mine. Here I was, experiencing word-for-word the goal that he'd sold me five years earlier. What sweat off his balls was that, I told myself. He has far larger concerns. Such is youth. :-) It never occurred to me before that MMY seemed not to talk to people one on one about their experiences. It occurred to me, early on, because I had experienced it. When I had one of my more major experiences, I was late to get to the lecture hall in Humboldt (could not figure out how to come out of meditation since I thought I had to cause the experience to end before opening my eyes! Finally just gave up, opened my eyes, and went to the cafeteria anyway). So I was late to dinner and then showed up at the lecture hall about 15 minutes into the talk he was giving. I was still having the experience, just the beginning of a fade. I walked in the door way at the back of this huge hall, and it seemed to me that just as I entered MMY turned his head and looked right over at me, right in the eye and nodded - I felt he knew exactly what I was experiencing and nodded to say so. That could have all been wishful thinking. But I continue to think he knew. And I, for one, am not going to dispute it. This, for me, is a fundamental part of the wonder of the spiritual path. What significance do we give our personal, subjective experiences? Do we consider them true, because we experienced them, or even Truth, because We experienced them, or are they just more data in the input queue of our internal AI servers? I had similar experiences with Rama, although never with Maharishi. I'd walk into a room not having seen him in a week or so and during that time I'd gone through Major Changes and subjectively felt as if I were glowing like a 10,000 watt light bulb. ( Unecological, I admit, but the best metaphor I could think up on the spur of the moment. :-) And he'd notice. Sometimes he'd even come up
RE: [FairfieldLife] A few Good Books
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wayback71 Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 5:26 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] A few Good Books Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? Radhanath Swami's book, The Journey Home http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1601090560?ie=UTF8tag=budatthegaspu-20li nkCode=as2camp=1789creative=9325creativeASIN=1601090560 . I'm rereading it, which I seldom do with books, and loving it as much the 2nd time as the 1st. Wonderful spiritual autobiography/adventure story. Would make a great movie.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
Thank you for your reply. Not informative for my curiosity about these things. I was just curious. I had not intended to 'lock horns' on this one, as you put it. However, I suppose if someone wanted to really get you to talk more openly about things, the spiritual technique of waterboarding might be one of the few that would bring a result. Unfortunately that technique is kind of hands on. I hope you have a generous supply of socks. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: Turq, I am unable to keep up these conversations in real time, but I have some comments in the exchanges below. I'll follow up a little, now that I've had my coffee, and try to explain to you why I'm not following up any more than I am. You are a newb here, and unaware to some extent of the history of this place. There are a few people here whose idea of fun is having conversations that resemble two bulldogs tugging at the same bone. They can go on and on and on and on about the things they debate. Some have been known to try to draw out such discussions for weeks, or longer. It's almost as if they believe that someone can win or prove themselves right about matters of pure opinion (as, IMO, all assertions of spiritual 'truth' are). This is just not my idea of fun. I prefer throwing out ideas, for no other purpose than playing with them, and to see whether anyone else can have fun playing with them, too. The conversations I like the best are largely composed of what some would demonize as non-sequiturs, where one person throws out Idea A, the next jumps to Idea Z because he or she sees a link between the two, and the third maybe jumps to Idea M. I see no need to pursue the forms of traditional, linear debate when discussing ideas for fun. You strike me as being somewhat of the bulldog mentality. That's fine, if it floats yer boat, but please don't expect it to float mine. When I get a whiff of someone who seems to want to lock horns and turn what could be a pleasant, short-lived exchange of opinions into a long, protracted exchange or debate, my first impulse is to blow the person off and do something more interesting, like washing my socks. I understand that you have questions about the experiences I presented *for informational purposes only*, and I wish you luck in finding answers to them. I have none for you. I am not selling anything here, least of all my opinion as anything but opinion. IMO none of my ideas are worth forming attachments to, and none are worth defending. As for your comments about me reacting to either criticism or appreciation of what I write the same way (not at all), that in my opinion is a compliment. Thank you for noticing. You may see these things differently, and that is your right. Might I suggest, if you want to get into long, protracted discussions here, that you pick someone on this forum who enjoys such things. I do not. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: Nice idea. I have never encountered this, although I have encountered one teacher that could in the space of a few days get a fair number of persons to experience a shift in SOC, if only temporary, but it was not like a broadcast. If you have encountered such teachers of the second kind, do they have names? Yes, but they would do you no good. Two of the four I've met are now dead, and the other two I have heard went back to Bhutan, and are no longer working with non-Bhutanese or non-Tibetan students. They gave work- ing with Westerners a shot on teaching tours and (from what I am told) now prefer to work only with people who can make a longer-term commitment. They didn't like the drop in approach. And what are the mechanics behind the ability to broadcast an SOC? I have no earthly idea. I report only on my subjective experience of working with these teachers. I am asking this because your description makes it sound like a radio broadcast - a mental projection or something like that? Something like that. Or, as I have suggested in the past about darshan, being able to put on a SOC so powerfully that others in the audience could be in the same room and somehow recognize in the teacher's SOC the counterpart of a matching SOC that was within them, just not realized yet, and as a result access it. That's a more non-doing theory, but this is pure spec- ulation on my part. I have no idea how it was done, only *that* it was done. It makes me think of something like in old science fiction movies (say 1940) where the doctor says If I can just get to the laboratory I can create a ray which will
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
On Jun 15, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Eh, so, make a choice: help a saint and don't go to the dome, or, don't help a saint and go to the dome. Which is more important and why? [the question of should this be a criterion for keeping your dome badge is another question entirely] That’s the question that interests me. Another one is whether MUM is hurting or helping itself with such policies. I say hurting. Hundreds have been driven away by this silliness. Unfortunately part of their reason for being and their underlying philosophy is that they have people practicing the same precise practices together to magnify the alleged effects of those practices to the community and to the world. It's all for naught if you have people visiting other gurus and then showing up to the domes and in the secrecy of their own heads practicing whatever. Because the subjective world is by it's very nature, private, you have to develop some set of rules to assure uniformity and compliance. The whole thing will not work if it contaminated by other practitioners, no matter how well meaning they might be.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
Dear Rick, sounds like a silly question for you, may be, but seriously WHAT IS CONSIDERED A SAINT?? AND WHAT MEANS helping? A little confusing for an ancient one at mount meru. Hope you do do not mind me asking this. Seems to me a kind of secret American (so called International Staff-danda) code(!) [:D] A more rhetorical question of another kind would be of course : What if I help myself of any kind : can merudanda not continue to go in and save the world?? Because... and this is seriously again ...you may not know merudanda , among other in the TMO( not BE the VAN -as far I know), has been called/praised by H.H. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi- founder of the Golden Dome in FF , to be a Saint of the movement.(Doesn't matter if it has been long long ago) Being self-sufficenet, and helping yourself has been the credo of the Golden Dome founder. So.---Who is afraid that the Saint are marching in? We are trav'ling in the footstepsOf those who've gone before,And we'll all be reunited,On a new and sunlit shore, Oh, when the saints go marching inOh, when the saints go marching inLord, how I want to be in that numberWhen the saints go marching inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyLjbMBpGDA but I used to have a playmateWho would walk and talk with meBut since she got religionShe has turned her back on me.lolBTW celestial laughter beside hope to get an answer of above question of: WHAT IS CONSIDERED A SAINT?? AND WHAT DOES IT MEANS helping a saint? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: There's a big sign up in the dome saying that anybody caught helping any saint will have their dome badge taken away. Way to go MUM. Another bullet in the foot. noch ein, ein anderer, eine andere, ein anderes, noch einer, ein zweiter, ein anderer [another]
Re: [FairfieldLife] A few Good Books
On Jun 16, 2011, at 5:25 AM, wayback71 wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I'm reading Middlemarch right now, and so far it's been well worth the (relatively minor) effort it takes to slog through the local politics of the time in order to get to the wonderful story that she sets you up for. I also just finished Unbroken by Laura Hillenbrand and loved it~~reads like a novel even though it's not. I also downloaded a sample of The Help on my kindle, and while it didn't do much for me lots of others seem to love it. Cutting For Stone, Half-Broke Horses, and the Lincoln Lawyer have all gotten excellent reviews. The Last Of Her Kind, which came out about 5 years ago, is one of the best recent novels I've ever read. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merudanda Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:20 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge Dear Rick, sounds like a silly question for you, may be, but seriously WHAT IS CONSIDERED A SAINT?? AND WHAT MEANS helping? You and I and others could offer our definitions, but what MUM means by this is that Amma is coming here in about a week, and they don't want anyone putting up posters, etc. Several people who had offered their support and who have been seeing her for years, have now withdrawn their support, although they will still see her, albeit with some degree of paranoia.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Rick Archer wrote: You and I and others could offer our definitions, but what MUM means by this is that Amma is coming here in about a week, and they don’t want anyone putting up posters, etc. Several people who had offered their support and who have been seeing her for years, have now withdrawn their support, although they will still see her, albeit with some degree of paranoia. Fairfield's own version of being in the closet. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: My favorite such moment, just as a suddenly-triggered- memory aside, took place in Amsterdam. Me and a bunch of other guys had gone there to teach meditation, for free. The idea was that we would go and offer free courses in meditation, see who came, and then after a few months he'd come over and give a big public talk. So, having the liberty to do so, I went over to Amsterdam for a few weeks, planning to spend the first week teach- ing before he arrived for his talk and spend the two weeks afterwards teaching some more. As it turned out, other students had the same idea about the week before, and they wanted to teach, too. I graciously stepped aside and allowed them to do so, because I knew that I'd still be in Amsterdam, and thus able to do some teaching, for a couple of weeks after they left. This left me with not a whole fucking lot to do there for that first week but wander around and get to know Amsterdam. Good Thing or Big Mistake for me karmically. My life has never been the same since. Anyway, the talk around the teaching apartment, after the students had gone home, was often -- among this group of pseudo-celibate guys -- Who is going to be the first to hit the Red Light District? I listened to their raps about this but to tell the truth wasn't all that interested because I got over my Red Light District fetish when I was 15. I waited until they'd finished and then said, The real ques- tion is who is going to be the first person to hit the coffeehouses and smoke some Amsterweed? Dead silence. You could have heard a flea fart. :-) But then I raised my hand, and broke the silence. Everybody laughed, because they thought I was making a joke. But that's exactly what I did. The next day I found a cool coffeehouse, bought a big fuckin' joint of a brand of Amsterweed called -- no shit -- Laughing Buddha, and inhaled my first puff of that herb since the late Sixties. And it was good. :-) I thoroughly enjoyed having my assemblage point shifted in a major way by the improvements that the Dutch had made to lowly marijuana. :-) The point, and the relevance to the above stories about running into your spiritual teacher after or during a cool period of time for you subjectively, is that after the week was up I wound up sitting across a table from Rama at the five-star hotel he was staying at. It was just me, one other student, and Rama. As you might imagine, I was sitting there thinking, What if he can tell that I've been toking up every night? What will he say? What will he do? He looked at me, not having seem me for a few weeks, and said, This place agrees with you. I haven't seen you this happy and this full of light in years. Go figure. Go fuckin' figure. I know. We were so young then that we did not have the simple wisdom to ask the obvious questions, like what do you make of my current experiences (to MMY), or how can this be if I have been smoking dope for the past week? And we were settled into a mode of thinking that shied away from being so direct and even thinking like that (at least I was) and we were young and respecting our older revered teachers. That was certainly part of it. Thanks again for getting what I was getting at in relating this story. Part of it was indeed that reluctance to ask the dude hard questions like, Now wait a minute...I know you have no hard and fast rules about doing drugs, but how can you reconcile what you just said to me with what you've said before about grass lowering one's state of attention? As you say, I was reluctant to get into that level of detail with him, so I didn't broach the subject at the time (the day he was to give his talk). As it turned out, given the experience at the talk itself, and his reaction to it, which triggered my heavy doubts about him and whether I should continue studying with him, I didn't broach the subject later, either. The reception of the students we had invited to his talk was...uh...less than favorable. They not only didn't like him, some of them hated him. From his side, he took this very personally and started (from my point of view) acting out his frustration with them during the talk itself. Imagine some of the ways Jim Flanegin acted out on this forum when people didn't respond to his announced enlight- enmentitudeness the way he wanted them to, squared. :-) He cancelled the entire Amsterdam teaching experi- ment and called off the game, took his ball and went home, Some of the things he said about the experience soured me forever on him and left me wondering more about *him* than the Dutch folks who had rejected him. He saw absolutely no fault from his side, and I did. He'd rolled into town like a Dick On
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: As it turned out, at the height of this experience he was giving advanced techniques and I got to go up and sit by his side, literally at his feet, and have him spend a few minutes with me one on one, talking to me first and then giving me the advanced technique. He didn't notice a thing. ... There was a line of others waiting for their techniques so I didn't bother him with any questions at that time, and before I had a chance to do so the experiences had faded and my questions and any confirmation from him would have been irrelevant. I've actually heard the same experience from others. At the height of their highest experiences, mapping from their perspective one to one to his descriptions of CC, they got to be close to Maharishi and he never noticed. So much for the notion of like knows like. Either that or he really didn't care enough about his students to notice them, period. Or any other explan- ation you prefer. I agree - this is odd, to say the least - that your Master (at the time) would not say something to you quietly just to acknowledge the experience you were having. Thank you again for yet another thoughtful reply. Yes, that thought occurred to me, even at the time. And yet. And yet I was at that point -- 5 months into rounding and not yet made a TM teacher -- such a TB that I found ways to write off this experience as Not Particularly Significant. I mean, what could be significant about it? One of his students having subjectively realized the goal he'd been selling all this time? Even if the student was just experiencing early on experiences of the enlight- enment process and not fully established in CC, if you were a Maha Rishi, shouldn't you have noticed? And yet. At the time, I was such a TB that I felt that any fault -- if there was one -- had to be mine. Here I was, experiencing word-for-word the goal that he'd sold me five years earlier. What sweat off his balls was that, I told myself. He has far larger concerns. Such is youth. :-) It never occurred to me before that MMY seemed not to talk to people one on one about their experiences. It occurred to me, early on, because I had experienced it. When I had one of my more major experiences, I was late to get to the lecture hall in Humboldt (could not figure out how to come out of meditation since I thought I had to cause the experience to end before opening my eyes! Finally just gave up, opened my eyes, and went to the cafeteria anyway). So I was late to dinner and then showed up at the lecture hall about 15 minutes into the talk he was giving. I was still having the experience, just the beginning of a fade. I walked in the door way at the back of this huge hall, and it seemed to me that just as I entered MMY turned his head and looked right over at me, right in the eye and nodded - I felt he knew exactly what I was experiencing and nodded to say so. That could have all been wishful thinking. But I continue to think he knew. And I, for one, am not going to dispute it. This, for me, is a fundamental part of the wonder of the spiritual path. What significance do we give our personal, subjective experiences? Do we consider them true, because we experienced them, or even Truth, because We experienced them, or are they just more data in the input queue of our internal AI servers? ... And he'd notice. Sometimes he'd even come up to me after the meeting and talk to me about it, asking What have you been up to that has you glowing so brightly? ... He looked at me, not having seem me for a few weeks, and said, This place agrees with you. I haven't seen you this happy and this full of light in years. Go figure. Go fuckin' figure. I know. We were so young then that we did not have the simple wisdom to ask the obvious questions, like what do you make of my current experiences (to MMY), or how can this be if I have been smoking dope for the past week? And we were settled into a mode of thinking that shied away from being so direct and even thinking like that (at least I was) and we were young and respecting our older revered teachers. I heard from others at the time that Rama was able to do these incredible things witnessed by hundreds, not just a few. How in the world do you explain that and then have him say what he did to you? Yeah, go figure sums it up. My experience and observation was that MMY was quite involved in acknowledging and providing feedback on experience. First, in every flower line (4-8 per day) he would stop at at particular person and say Hmm, enjoying, Hmm, very good or
[FairfieldLife] When It Started to Get Crazy
Who of us had not written that as our assessment of the Movement at this or that time, for this or that project. And there are many ways of looking at the same situation. What was crazy for one person was not crazy for another. Part of this may be due to different perspectives on what was happening. It appears many comments about crazy days, crazy projects, strange behavior is from a linear, project management sort of perspective -- thinking if we are trying to accomplish X -- this is NOT the way to do it. Or, alternatively, why the hell are we doing project X. There are other perspectives. Some may be closer to what MMY was actually doing. I'll state a perspective, not THE perspective, simply -- without the nuances. The World Plan, Heaven on Earth, MIU, big projects, unconventional behavior, etc were not about such initiatives. They were simply tools for MMY to help us break our boundaries. Do you think conventional projects, plans and implementation are going to break boundaries? No, they generally confirm the status quo. On the other hand, crazy, outlandish, odd, squirmish projects were just that because we had inner attachments, ego issues, projections, assumptions about how things should be and what is normal, etc. Huge and or crazy projects, often both were a set of tools that MMY used to break these internal boundaries. The outer fruits of the actions were up to nature -- and not the focus.
[FairfieldLife] Business with the mystics (Sudha Ramachandran) - is the Guru paradigm (syndrome?) obsolete?
From the ontologicalethics list: Spirituality has never had it so good. With the economy booming, an increasing number of Indians are turning to spirituality to help them cope with pressures generated by their materialistic lifestyles. Catering to a huge and growing international market for instant relief from stress and alienation, India's gurus and godmen are smartly packaging spirituality and selling it in ways that are in tune with thinking in today's globalized India. Many have successfully built multi-billion dollar empires, confirming that in India today the spirituality business is a booming industry. […] The contrast between these gurus and those of the past is stark. India's spiritual teachers of the past were known for their Spartan lifestyle. They renounced all material comforts, even kingdoms - as did the founder of Buddhism, Gautama Buddha - and spent long periods in solitude to meditate and contemplate the big questions of life and death. They were reclusive, as was Ramana Maharishi. They did not seek crowds, the media or publicity. They owned nothing. Yogis (those who practiced yoga), in particular, led austere lives, subjecting their bodies to incredible hardship and discipline. Compare this with the publicity and power-seeking godmen of today, who in the name of raising money for social causes have built huge empires that would rival even giant business corporations. These gurus come alive under arc lights, surround themselves with the rich, the beautiful and the powerful, and travel in fancy cars and private jets. Acharya Rajneesh, aka Osho, was known to have a huge Rolls Royce collection. In an era of economic globalization, gurus and godmen have restructured their messages to suit their clientele's preoccupations. They do not urge their followers to free themselves of greed. Rather the guru in the age of globalization helps his followers recharge their entrepreneurial energies so that they can acquire more wealth. […] What is distasteful to many is their amassing of wealth, lavish lifestyles, soft spots for Westerners and pursuit of political power. Most of the high-profile gurus wield enormous power over politicians and have close links with parties, especially the Hindu right wing. In the past ashrams (hermitages) offered pilgrims a place to stay for free. Only the super-rich can afford the ashrams run by the new age gurus. In several ashrams it is not uncommon to find separate accommodation and dining rooms for Westerners and Indians. Worse, several ashrams - even the not so fancy ones frequented by backpackers - are out of bounds for Indians. Some Western spirituality seekers, keen to soak to themselves in Indian culture, seem keen to keep their distance from its people, a demand that gurus have no problem meeting. […] Critics of the new age gurus say that they are making knowledge that belongs to all accessible only to those who can pay. If these gurus are indeed good men who want to spread happiness and peace, why can't they do it for free? Why can't they work among India's poorest? The content of their teachings is not their own discovery. It is wisdom passed down through the ages that they are regurgitating in some cases, and giving a new spin in others. What gives them the right then to patent techniques? […] Critics of the new age gurus say that selling spirituality is completely distasteful. Indeed, a true teacher after all wouldn't sell knowledge that wasn't his in the first place. He would share it. Siddha Ramachandran, Business with the mystics (Asia Times Online, 16 June 2011) My teacher Rameshwar Jha, whose favorite banter with his soul-mate Swami Lakshman Joo was to accuse each other of imagining himself to be the latest incarnation of Abhinavagupta, always declared that his was (not a disciple- but) a guru-factory. In short, Abhinava would have recognized himself in the cross-fertilizing multi-faceted aptitudes of all of us involved in this hydra-headed collective enterprise! svAbhinava – an exegesis à la Abhinavagupta (concluding lines) Is the adoption of all these new business propositions, managerial techniques, public relations, etc., the necessary adaptation of traditional Gurudom to the modern (middle-class) life-style or do they sound the death-knell of this ancient mode of spiritual transmission? Sunthar
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: I think it's a pity that the movement continues to sabotage its own interests by behaving like a blinking cult. Many of us think the TM organization's prime interest is to teach TM, but that's a mistake on our part. The TM organization's prime interest is to maintain the purity of the teaching. That's why it bans cross-pollination with other teachings. Behaving like a cult does not interfere with, and may actually promote, the maintenance of the teaching in the form Maharishi transmitted it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] When It Started to Get Crazy
On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:52 AM, tartbrain wrote: Who of us had not written that as our assessment of the Movement at this or that time, for this or that project. I give up~~who. Why do I almost constantly get a vague feeling of lecturing the ignorant masses~~a la Jim, just with slightly less of a condescending tone~~from your posts, tart? Maybe it's me. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] When It Started to Get Crazy
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tartbrain Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:53 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] When It Started to Get Crazy Who of us had not written that as our assessment of the Movement at this or that time, for this or that project. And there are many ways of looking at the same situation. What was crazy for one person was not crazy for another. Part of this may be due to different perspectives on what was happening. It appears many comments about crazy days, crazy projects, strange behavior is from a linear, project management sort of perspective -- thinking if we are trying to accomplish X -- this is NOT the way to do it. Or, alternatively, why the hell are we doing project X. There are other perspectives. Some may be closer to what MMY was actually doing. I'll state a perspective, not THE perspective, simply -- without the nuances. The World Plan, Heaven on Earth, MIU, big projects, unconventional behavior, etc were not about such initiatives. They were simply tools for MMY to help us break our boundaries. Do you think conventional projects, plans and implementation are going to break boundaries? No, they generally confirm the status quo. On the other hand, crazy, outlandish, odd, squirmish projects were just that because we had inner attachments, ego issues, projections, assumptions about how things should be and what is normal, etc. Huge and or crazy projects, often both were a set of tools that MMY used to break these internal boundaries. The outer fruits of the actions were up to nature -- and not the focus. And the ultimate boundary breaker - his sexual affairs. Actually, he hated sex. But he made a great sacrifice, knowing that someday, the whole thing would go public and break boundaries big time. If you don't like that theory, how about this?: both the affairs and the whacky projects were symptomatic of a brilliant, highly-evolved man who may not have been as fully enlightened as he thought he was, and whose unresolved issues threw him off course.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jpgillam Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:59 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer wrote: I think it's a pity that the movement continues to sabotage its own interests by behaving like a blinking cult. Many of us think the TM organization's prime interest is to teach TM, but that's a mistake on our part. The TM organization's prime interest is to maintain the purity of the teaching. That's why it bans cross-pollination with other teachings. Behaving like a cult does not interfere with, and may actually promote, the maintenance of the teaching in the form Maharishi transmitted it. Maharishi used to say the purity of the teaching depends upon the purity of the teachers. If that's true, the teaching was never entirely pure, but it might be made more pure if the teachers got the blessings of a saint or two.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: when people didn't respond to his announced enlight- enmentitudeness the way he wanted them to. As elaborated in an adjacent post, the 10,000 QA at the mic between MMY and those on the course were often about experiences. I never saw a big reaction from MMY. No hot damn! thats IT! You GOT it bro!! High five! One got guidance, but not ego boosting (which is a step in the counter direction). Sometimes there was ego busting. The / a lesson from witnessing this huge QA parade was that: 1) experiences were natural, they were not something to make a big fuss about, no special status was given, everything from normalization to peak experiences were part of the whole, no need to make a big fuss about the whole. 2) even the most detailed clear experiences were basically classified as hmm, something good is happening, but that's not IT. That is, what many self-diagnosed, and perhaps self-confirmed to be higher states were not. It produced a certain healthy rational skepticism about self-confirmed claims of higher states. 3) one generally didn't talk about their experiences outside of the QA with MMY. Progress was being made was the only important thing. No need to talk about it or broadcast it. 4) Sort of like the first rule of enlightenment club is there is no enlightenment club.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
mamma mia(!) Thanks for the response, appreciate --see below... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merudanda Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:20 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge Dear Rick, sounds like a silly question for you, may be, but seriously WHAT IS CONSIDERED A SAINT?? AND WHAT MEANS helping? You and I and others could offer our definitions, but what MUM means by this is that Amma is coming here in about a week, and they don't want anyone putting up posters, etc. Several people who had offered their support and who have been seeing her for years, have now withdrawn their support, although they will still see her, albeit with some degree of paranoia. Ahh a local reaction to a local event---now it makes more sense..an inroad of matriarchal consciousness into patriarchal culture, so to speak(!) Sorry in my time and even now- I would just call a spide a spide... Do not eat Mamma mias's Spaghetti especially avoid Chilli and other Indian spices--no big deal [:D] Aren't there not enough former TM teacher and ex TM student/devotees around Mamma any more to give a helpinghand? Remember From the 80s on quite a lot of them -because of the lack of emphaty in TMO- went for ahug and more sadly .because of the (TMO) circumstances it was difficult to argue with them How about asking Amma to give up the title of sainthood---would that help(there are so many other possible title around---BTW never wanted to be my mamma to be a Saint [:D] ) uuuhhh I was just helping another Saint delete delete delete But Vaj's point is certainly valid but IMHO no contradiction...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
Tart, *not* wishing to argue with you or diminish what you say in any way, just presenting a Deva's Advocate position the same way Curtis might, do you notice that the personalized feedback I have highlighted below, along with my occasional comments in brackets, is a lot like cold reading of pretend psychics or stage magicians or charlatan astrologers? That is, no actual personal information is conveyed at all. Instead, a general statement that could apply to anyone is presented, leaving the person to whom it is presented to project into it whatever meaning they wish to. In other words, each of these statements can be seen as fodder for confirmation bias, and not personal at all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: My experience and observation was that MMY was quite involved in acknowledging and providing feedback on experience. First, in every flower line [* Just pointing out that waiting in a flower line is in itself setting up confirmation bias. You're standing there for minutes or hours waiting, waiting, waiting, priming yourself for something good to happen. Who should be surprised when it does? *] (4-8 per day) he would stop at at particular person and say *Hmm, enjoying, Hmm, very good* or something similar -- which appeared to be an acknowledgment and encouragement of their particular state or experience at that time. For example, as MMY entered into the lecture hall, a woman (said later) she was seeing the heavens open up, and hordes of angels or such descend as MMY entered the hall) and he stopped and said *Hmm, its beautiful, yes*. And he acknowledged personal situations. At the beginning of my TTC he asked each of us to come forward, to approach him (I think we gave him a flower, or simply bowed our heads) and he said to me *ah, you made it*. Prior to that, while I had been on two courses with him, up to that time there was no reason for him to know who I was - I had not met privately with him or been at the mic for questions. But it had been a big production to get to TTC -- and he somehow knew that and acknowledged it. Some years later, a friend who had been teaching in a distant land came back to see him and the first thing MMY said was *Hmm, so you have been bored, yes?* My friend was very clear in his mind that MMY was referring to his many dalliances with local women. [* Again, no specific information was conveyed, merely a vague, generic statement that could have meant anything, but was interpreted by the student to mean whatever he determined it meant. *] snip And sometimes, *it was just a look he gave - and that was all that was needed. Or, he would just start lecturing on a point that was on someones mind* (which may have been coincidental -- but happened a lot.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: When It Started to Get Crazy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:52 AM, tartbrain wrote: Who of us had not written that as our assessment of the Movement at this or that time, for this or that project. I give up~~who. Why do I almost constantly get a vague feeling of lecturing the ignorant masses~~a la Jim, just with slightly less of a condescending tone~~from your posts, tart? Maybe it's me. Lecturing? I was reflecting on a perspective, a thought, an alternative POV, a riff. Maybe not be everyone's cup of tea. Easy to skip over such posts. Sal A) I had a bagel today B) Why do you always think you are so superior just be
Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint Lose Your BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN WHICH DOME?
@ friends do NOT locate the sign in the men's dome? So exactly where is it located so we may verify this??, PLEASE if not present now what date was it there where exactly also 4 verification. Thanks in advance. In a message dated 6/16/2011 10:04:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, r...@searchsummit.com writes: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merudanda Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:20 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge Dear Rick, sounds like a silly question for you, may be, but seriously WHAT IS CONSIDERED A SAINT?? AND WHAT MEANS helping? You and I and others could off er our definitions, but what MUM means by this is that Amma is coming here in about a week, and they don’t want anyone putting up posters, etc. Several people who had offered their support and who have been seeing her for years, have now withdrawn their support, although they will still see her, albeit with some degree of paranoia.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Tart, *not* wishing to argue with you or diminish what you say in any way, just presenting a Deva's Advocate position the same way Curtis might, do you notice that the personalized feedback I have highlighted below, along with my occasional comments in brackets, is a lot like cold reading of pretend psychics or stage magicians or charlatan astrologers? That is, no actual personal information is conveyed at all. Instead, a general statement that could apply to anyone is presented, leaving the person to whom it is presented to project into it whatever meaning they wish to. In other words, each of these statements can be seen as fodder for confirmation bias, and not personal at all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: My experience and observation was that MMY was quite involved in acknowledging and providing feedback on experience. First, in every flower line [* Just pointing out that waiting in a flower line is in itself setting up confirmation bias. You're standing there for minutes or hours waiting, waiting, waiting, priming yourself for something good to happen. Who should be surprised when it does? *] (4-8 per day) he would stop at at particular person and say *Hmm, enjoying, Hmm, very good* or something similar -- which appeared to be an acknowledgment and encouragement of their particular state or experience at that time. For example, as MMY entered into the lecture hall, a woman (said later) she was seeing the heavens open up, and hordes of angels or such descend as MMY entered the hall) and he stopped and said *Hmm, its beautiful, yes*. And he acknowledged personal situations. At the beginning of my TTC he asked each of us to come forward, to approach him (I think we gave him a flower, or simply bowed our heads) and he said to me *ah, you made it*. Prior to that, while I had been on two courses with him, up to that time there was no reason for him to know who I was - I had not met privately with him or been at the mic for questions. But it had been a big production to get to TTC -- and he somehow knew that and acknowledged it. Some years later, a friend who had been teaching in a distant land came back to see him and the first thing MMY said was *Hmm, so you have been bored, yes?* My friend was very clear in his mind that MMY was referring to his many dalliances with local women. [* Again, no specific information was conveyed, merely a vague, generic statement that could have meant anything, but was interpreted by the student to mean whatever he determined it meant. *] snip True. These were vague (understated, or subtle are other perspectives) and surely a LOT of mood making came from such. I am reflecting on my impression -- and my experience. Just providing a counter point to the comments, as I understood them, that MMY did not provide much feedback on experience. Maybe that's true, maybe its not. Maybe there is a huge in between. And sometimes, *it was just a look he gave - and that was all that was needed. Or, he would just start lecturing on a point that was on someones mind* (which may have been coincidental -- but happened a lot.) Again, there is no way to validate this -- other than the people, including myself, got useful feedback. Maybe it was all internal. But even then points to PERHAPS more refined intuition and self-sufficiency (which MMY would have enjoyed more to see, IMO)
RE: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint Lose Your BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN WHICH DOME?
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wle...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint Lose Your BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN WHICH DOME? @ friends do NOT locate the sign in the men's dome? So exactly where is it located so we may verify this??, PLEASE if not present now what date was it there where exactly also 4 verification. Thanks in advance. Maybe just the ladies dome, because the person who told us this is of the female persuasion.
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi Peace Palace of Fairfield Iowa - Summer Celebration announcement.
The Maharishi Peace Palace of Fairfield Iowa Invites you to the 36th Annual Summer Celebration Sun. June 19th at 7:30 PM in Dalby Hall Argiro Student Center Awards will be given to: Rick Stanley presented by Wally DeVasier Isabelle Matzkin presented by Antwan Penn Miryam Lopez And our Special Father's Day Tribute Entertainment provided by Binay Krishna Baral ~ Bansuri Flute Rick Stanley ~ Celtic Harp Bill Graeser ~ Poet Please come and Enjoy the wave of Fullness to usher in the Summer Season! Festivities start at 7:30PM Followed by Organic Carrot Cake Maharishi Peace Palace 1040-1080 North 4th St Fairfield, Iowa 52556 641-472-1174
[FairfieldLife] Re: When It Started to Get Crazy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tartbrain Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:53 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] When It Started to Get Crazy Who of us had not written that as our assessment of the Movement at this or that time, for this or that project. And there are many ways of looking at the same situation. What was crazy for one person was not crazy for another. Part of this may be due to different perspectives on what was happening. It appears many comments about crazy days, crazy projects, strange behavior is from a linear, project management sort of perspective -- thinking if we are trying to accomplish X -- this is NOT the way to do it. Or, alternatively, why the hell are we doing project X. There are other perspectives. Some may be closer to what MMY was actually doing. I'll state a perspective, not THE perspective, simply -- without the nuances. The World Plan, Heaven on Earth, MIU, big projects, unconventional behavior, etc were not about such initiatives. They were simply tools for MMY to help us break our boundaries. Do you think conventional projects, plans and implementation are going to break boundaries? No, they generally confirm the status quo. On the other hand, crazy, outlandish, odd, squirmish projects were just that because we had inner attachments, ego issues, projections, assumptions about how things should be and what is normal, etc. Huge and or crazy projects, often both were a set of tools that MMY used to break these internal boundaries. The outer fruits of the actions were up to nature -- and not the focus. And the ultimate boundary breaker - his sexual affairs. Actually, he hated sex. But he made a great sacrifice, knowing that someday, the whole thing would go public and break boundaries big time. If you don't like that theory, how about this?: both the affairs and the whacky projects were symptomatic of a brilliant, highly-evolved man who may not have been as fully enlightened as he thought he was, and whose unresolved issues threw him off course. That may also be true. I was presenting a perspective, more formally a hypothesis. I am not tied to the hypothesis I presented. The validity of a hypothesis is how well it explains observed data. (And if the model can successfully predict future outcomes.) Both hypotheses could explain the craziness. Or something in between. I said I left out the nuances -- for brevity and simplicity. And we each have our own data points. You may have seen crazy stuff that the hypothesis that I riffed on does not well explain. I may have some observations and experience which is consistent with the hypothesis and less consistent with yours. And vice versa. I can question the value of riffing on such hypotheses. Its not to rationalize the behavior. (Rationality per se is not a strong component of the hypothesis I laid out.) If anything, its an exercise in not being overly attached to a single perspective, to not assume one knows anything with certainty. (a la, how do you know that's true) My life, inner and outer, is not much different either way. I don't have a vested emotional, intellectual or existential interest in either or any such hypotheses. I explored a thought. It may or may not grist for further conversation. Such is the way with posting.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer wrote: I think it's a pity that the movement continues to sabotage its own interests by behaving like a blinking cult. Gillam wrote: Many of us think the TM organization's prime interest is to teach TM, but that's a mistake on our part. The TM organization's prime interest is to maintain the purity of the teaching. That's why it bans cross-pollination with other teachings. Behaving like a cult does not interfere with, and may actually promote, the maintenance of the teaching in the form Maharishi transmitted it. Archer wrote: Maharishi used to say the purity of the teaching depends upon the purity of the teachers. If that's true, the teaching was never entirely pure, but it might be made more pure if the teachers got the blessings of a saint or two. This ^ is where Yahoo! Groups needs a Like button.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jpgillam Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:59 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer wrote: I think it's a pity that the movement continues to sabotage its own interests by behaving like a blinking cult. Many of us think the TM organization's prime interest is to teach TM, but that's a mistake on our part. The TM organization's prime interest is to maintain the purity of the teaching. That's why it bans cross-pollination with other teachings. Behaving like a cult does not interfere with, and may actually promote, the maintenance of the teaching in the form Maharishi transmitted it. Maharishi used to say the purity of the teaching depends upon the purity of the teachers. If that's true, the teaching was never entirely pure, but it might be made more pure if the teachers got the blessings of a saint or two. Is that parallel to telling ones spouse our marriage vows will be stronger if I get the 'blessings' of another lover or two? There appear to be a couple of approaches: smorgasbord and chef' special. In the first, one creates one own meal, as one thinks best suits them. Another is to trust the chef and say, Serve me what your think is the best -- you are the chef. In the latter, one doesn't typically say -- but I want to get a side order from the chef down the street. Both the smorgasbord and chef special approaches may be useful -- one for some, the other for others. But asking for side dishes from another chef when asking the chef's special may not instill the highest devotion and attention from the chef to prepare his utmost best for you. He may wait until you are a serious diner.
[FairfieldLife] Michelle Obama promotes militarism
Apparently the first lady is now in the business of promoting endless war traveling to Hollywood to get them make more movies about military families. Obama said she created the initiative with Jill Biden to help the nation understand that when our country goes to war, we have families that are serving right along with them. Wow, Obama is not the person I voted and now neither is his wife! More government propaganda, shame, shame. Hey Michelle, did you read George Orwell's 1984 sitting on your head? He was talking about a bad society not a plan for future societies. Endless war is not a solution and you have sold your soul to the devils (i.e. military industrial complex). Time to ramp up our attacks on this stupid war machine that has infected our country. The article: http://www.cnbc.com/id/43392498 PS: ever wonder why we glamorize enforcement in shows on TV? It's not that the public is clamoring for them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
when people didn't respond to his announced enlight- enmentitudeness the way he wanted them to... tartbrain: 3) one generally didn't talk about their experiences outside of the QA with MMY. Progress was being made was the only important thing. No need to talk about it or broadcast it... Well it looks like Barry wanted to part of the enlightenment club, to boost his ego? And he was disappointed when MMY didn't recognize his many 'attainments', which is weird, because Barry himself said they were a Big Whoop! Go figure?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
turquoiseb: I *did* experience what I experienced... Perception is reality?
[FairfieldLife] Re: A few Good Books
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Jun 16, 2011, at 5:25 AM, wayback71 wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I'm reading Middlemarch right now, and so far it's been well worth the (relatively minor) effort it takes to slog through the local politics of the time in order to get to the wonderful story that she sets you up for. I also just finished Unbroken by Laura Hillenbrand and loved it~~reads like a novel even though it's not. I also downloaded a sample of The Help on my kindle, and while it didn't do much for me lots of others seem to love it. Cutting For Stone, Half-Broke Horses, and the Lincoln Lawyer have all gotten excellent reviews. The Last Of Her Kind, which came out about 5 years ago, is one of the best recent novels I've ever read. Sal Thanks, I liked Unbroken, too, a real eye opener about Japanese camps. I will do Middlemarch (love that language - it slows you down and sts a pace that is luxurious) and Last of her Kind. I just finished Room by Emma Donoghue - about a young woman kidnapped as a 19 year old and kept in a soundproof shed. She gets pregnant and has a child and they live in the Room. Strange story. Also Jennifer Egan's A Visit from the Goon Squad - not great but interesting- lots about the music of the 70's and 80's since one of the main characters becomes a record producer. Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell is amazing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Rick Archer wrote: You and I and others could offer our definitions, but what MUM means by this is that Amma is coming here in about a week, and they don't want anyone putting up posters, etc. Several people who had offered their support and who have been seeing her for years, have now withdrawn their support, although they will still see her, albeit with some degree of paranoia. Fairfield's own version of being in the closet. Sal Just wonderingis there anything illegal about denying access to programs based on this kind of rule? Could someone make a case about this?
[FairfieldLife] Re: A few Good Books
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I recently read A Hole at the Bottom of the Sea by journalist Joel Achenbach, a very well-done blow-by-blow account for the general reader of the Deepwater Horizon disaster. One big disappointment: he tells you almost nothing about the operators of the underwater remote vehicles that actually did most of the incredibly exacting physical work of rebuilding the wellhead to stop the gusher. I read so much nonfiction on the Web that I stick mostly with fiction for bedtime reading. The Brothers Boswell by Philip Baruth is a sort of literary thriller told from the perspective of the brother of James Boswell, the biographer of Samuel Johnson. Very offbeat, gorgeously written. I found it oddly unsatisfying at the end, but it's one heck of a ride. I'm on a historical mystery kick and have been working my way through two historical detective series that I've been greatly enjoying. One is the Matthew Shardlake novels by C.J. Sansome. Set in Tudor England in the waning days of Henry VIII, they involve the attempts of a middle-aged hunchbacked London lawyer to unravel various murders and political plots. They're generally very well written with a great deal of engrossing period detail (although the author has a few careless tics that can be annoying and should have been cleaned up by his editors). Shardlake is a fascinating character study as he develops through the novels in the series, a good-hearted, honest, intelligent, reflective man with the best of motives whose personality flaws often get him in trouble nonetheless. These are *long* novels, 500-700 pages, and while there's plenty of action, they don't always move at a breakneck pace. You have to be willing to let the author take his time unfolding the story and just let yourself soak in the setting. The other set of historical mysteries is the Sugawara Akitada series, set in 11th-century Japan, by I.J. Parker. Much of what I said above about the Shardlake series applies to this one as well, but the setting is much less familiar and even more colorful. For me, the main attraction here is not so much the plots (which are intricate and certainly compelling) but the main character, who is so enormously engaging in his complexity and humanity that I actually feel bereft of his company when I finish one of the novels. He's such a vivid personality it's hard not to imagine he must have been a real person who has channeled himself through Parker. The quality of Parker's writing is uneven. It's mostly very good--and there are some wonderfully lyrical passages--but every now and then you'll run into awkward bits, especially in the dialogue. Both series, although they're very neatly plotted, are primarily character driven, so you should, if possible, read them in order, as all the important characters develop and change over the course of the series. More than enough light but absorbing reading to last through the summer. (And all but the most recent in each series are available used on Amazon for under a dollar plus $3.98 shipping.) This is my 50th for the week. See you all Friday or Saturday.
[FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an energy transfer or hit during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a powerful person energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process. This time we went individually and brought our questions that we kept in our minds, as Amma could supposedly intuit and respond. Again, a manhandled hug routine (hands placed particularly, head pushed forward on chest, with a monotone repetition of a word in the right ear). I attended the IAM meditation course and enjoyed it, but was put off by the requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement. It was at this point I began to feel like I was being encouraged to pray to Amma - based on the Swami lectures, instruction and visualization received during the meditation. Amma was continually reinforced as the form to keep in our minds. We continued through the weekend - were full of so much energy Sunday evening that we worked out between 10-11 PM. We did our Seva at dinner by helping load dishes into the cart, which was fun. We participated in standing in line for hours and receiving hugs in the morning and evening, wanting to follow the scripted schedule and also waiting to feel this overwhelming love connection that so many talked about. We received blessed candy and got the dolls blessed. Monday I was up at 6:15 to do the yoga class. Monday evening was Dhevi Bhava - lots of ceremony and long, translated talk that was starting to feel very top down and condescending. Blessed water, chanting to music, change in Amma's costume to the crown and gown, and the hugs began with the loud bhajans (music) sung by a swami and group in the background. The music/chanting was very loud, repetitive, and mesmerizing; the Swami's voice was very hypnotic; the Swami lectures were full of what seemed like very conflicting messages which confused me on several levels (is the underlying message that we should all pray to Amma as God?), and I was feeling like I was on some kind of wierd emotional and energetic high. I decided also that I wanted a mantra to aid me on my path of forgiveness. So I said the word mantra at the last hug as instructed. I knew nothing of mantras or initiation and clearly misunderstood what they are. I read the sheet passed around. I was shepherded into a circle with others and asked for my definition of God - I stated the Universe. I was told that a mantra did not address any aspects of God, such as forgiveness, but that this would bring me closer to God and would be a personal, exactly right
[FairfieldLife] Re: When It Started to Get Crazy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: Who of us had not written that as our assessment of the Movement at this or that time, for this or that project. And there are many ways of looking at the same situation. What was crazy for one person was not crazy for another. Part of this may be due to different perspectives on what was happening. It appears many comments about crazy days, crazy projects, strange behavior is from a linear, project management sort of perspective -- thinking if we are trying to accomplish X -- this is NOT the way to do it. Or, alternatively, why the hell are we doing project X. There are other perspectives. Some may be closer to what MMY was actually doing. I'll state a perspective, not THE perspective, simply -- without the nuances. The World Plan, Heaven on Earth, MIU, big projects, unconventional behavior, etc were not about such initiatives. They were simply tools for MMY to help us break our boundaries. Do you think conventional projects, plans and implementation are going to break boundaries? No, they generally confirm the status quo. On the other hand, crazy, outlandish, odd, squirmish projects were just that because we had inner attachments, ego issues, projections, assumptions about how things should be and what is normal, etc. Huge and or crazy projects, often both were a set of tools that MMY used to break these internal boundaries. The outer fruits of the actions were up to nature -- and not the focus. Bingo !
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
MIU anti-saint? WTF! Let's recap the teaching. All humans have an innate capacity to reach the ground of all being, the home of all the laws of nature, the source of thought, the Self in a simple natural, innocent way. Through repeated exposure to this level of life alternated by activity consisting of speaking in a soft lilting voice and eating mountains of celebration cake you stabilize this state of consciousness into a permanent state where you are functioning according to all the laws spontaneously due to the need of the time or in accordance with the dictates of movement lawyers. But if you claim to have gotten there some other way than TM then you are to be shunned? Even if you claim to have gotten there through TM you can't put out a shingle that says I know some stuff you really aught to know, but Maharishi didn't have time to lay on us you are gunna get in trouuble. Sometimes I wonder if the movement believes its own rap. This suspicion of any other system based on the implied arrogance of TM being the best, highest, whateverest technique was totally pervasive when I taught. We could study Kant or Hegel's impenetrable speculations about the nature of reality, but if you slipped into a Muktananda lecture, you could get in some serious shit. But now that people have decades of experience, and if Batgap interviews are to be believed, are popping into awakened states right and left, MIU people need to continue this policy of viewing anyone claiming a higher state as a threat to purity? Like little idiot children, the domers can't be trusted to not become confused by these other teachings. They can't be trusted to listen to another POV and integrate it into SCI like every other discipline at MIU because the people are too close to Maharishi's own viewpoint of the world? They are too unethical to live by a TM and TM sidis in the dome rule? They can't be trusted? Is the reason that it is OK to read the Bible because Jesus is dead, because that isn't what Christians believe. They believe he rose again so he might be able to communicate with you through the Holy Spirit (impregnated Mary, totally hung) and confuse the poor half-wits who have been studying Maharishi's teaching for the last half century. (more drivel after Tart's quote) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: Is that parallel to telling ones spouse our marriage vows will be stronger if I get the 'blessings' of another lover or two? Here is where this breaks down for me. Marriage is a two way street. If my lover lived in say, Vlodrop, and our whole marriage consisted of getting postcards full of honey-do lists every few weeks, I would not be unreasonable to get on Match.com and lay down some lines about how your dream is to walk on the beach with your wife in one hand, your pink Uggs shod daughter in the other and a golden retriever named Jyoti bounding in front of you. And then start dating your ass off till you found one chick who you could have a real relationship with, you know actually talk to (bone) share meaningful perspectives (bone) serve as a support in the challenging reality TV show of life (bone. And of course you could actually bone her instead of that half-baked SKYPE version you have been getting by on. TM is a POV, a teaching. There is nothing universal about it or the states it claims to induce. If there was a universal state of enlightenment reached by TMers (or others for that matter) then we wouldn't hear about signs like this spreading fear and threats supporting brand loyalty. I was in a traditional martial arts Jiu-jitsu dojo when the whole Gracie Jiu-jitsu (proven by actually fighting in the UFC octagon) came out. Our teacher realized many people were defecting to other schools to learn the techniques that were sweeping the martial arts world. He gave us this same kind of rap talking about loyalty and commitment to his school and how these people where betraying him. HE told us that if he heard we had gone to another school he would terminate our contract for instruction. It was an economically based, self-serving bunch of crap. I realized that if in fact he did know all about Gracie techniques he could show us what they were and why he had chosen to go another way. But he couldn't. He was just thinking of lost students and his own self-interest while invoking inappropriate ideals like loyalty. So I left his school where I had done quite well and joined a Gracie school where I experienced months of getting my butt handed to me by students with much less training than I had. But they had gotten the right training, it was obvious. Now the Gracie techniques have revolutionized mixed martial arts and everyone studies them. If TM was truly the Gracie Jiu-jitsu of yoga then there wouldn't be a need for all this isolation and fear of other teachers. If Maharishi's students were getting
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: when people didn't respond to his announced enlight- enmentitudeness the way he wanted them to... tartbrain: 3) one generally didn't talk about their experiences outside of the QA with MMY. Progress was being made was the only important thing. No need to talk about it or broadcast it... Well it looks like Barry wanted to part of the enlightenment club, to boost his ego? And he was disappointed when MMY didn't recognize his many 'attainments', which is weird, because Barry himself said they were a Big Whoop! Go figure? Hehe, Maharishi said or did nothing when the Turqo was convinced he was withnessing, though it might well be moodmaking. Soon later he left (or some says he was kicked out of )the Movement thorougly convinced that Maharishi was not enlightened. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Rick Archer wrote: You and I and others could offer our definitions, but what MUM means by this is that Amma is coming here in about a week, and they don't want anyone putting up posters, etc. Several people who had offered their support and who have been seeing her for years, have now withdrawn their support, although they will still see her, albeit with some degree of paranoia. Fairfield's own version of being in the closet. Sal Just wonderingis there anything illegal about denying access to programs based on this kind of rule? Could someone make a case about this? There are not expectations of freedoms in private groups and since this is not a disability or race issue I can't see what basis you could have to challenge them in court. They could say tomorrow that no one will be admitted who isn't wearing the color purple or who uses past tense verbs in their speech, it is their land, their club and their rules. The question is why would adults submit to this kind of treatment voluntarily? I believe Singer and Lifton had some insights into how this gets put together.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: There's a big sign up in the dome saying that anybody caught helping any saint will have their dome badge taken away. Way to go MUM. Another bullet in the foot. There's a big sign up in the dome saying that anybody caught helping any saint will have their dome badge taken away. Way to go MUM. Another bullet in the foot. Dear Rick, I sympathize completely with the powers that be here. Why? It's pretty simple: if you, when you were devoted to M and TM as a teacher (on Purusha), how would you receive this particular sentiment as expressed by you here? Now of course you believe you are much wiser and more mature than you were then; but think about it: what would be the quality of innocence and conviction that would rise up inside of you in opposition to what you say above, and how secure and confident would you be in standing behind the ruling made that no one helping any saint will be able to keep their badge? The sincere and adamant belief that Maharishi and TM was unique and superior and inviolable went down as deep into us as transcendence itselfmaybe deeper. To countenance any form of eclecticism with regard to spirituality after once having become a teacher of TM and knowing Maharishi, this would seem dangerous, reckless, and treasonous in the extreme. It is only what has emerged from those twilight years of Maharishi when he himself seemed to lose the support of Nature, and so many of his teachers became disillusionedno one achieved enlightenment; no one could fly; there was no peace in the world; the TMO lost any sense of grace etc etc etc.that it then became reasonable to consider experimenting with other traditions, teachers, saints, practices. No, for the authorities at MUM to tolerate this mixing of traditions and gurus and practices would be tantamount to admitting there is nothing special about TM and Maharishi, and that, as it were, 'anything goes'. I bring your mind and heart back to the halcyon and euphoric days in the Movementearly seventies; can you conceive of discovering within your consciousness and heart the impulse to go against this proscription that you now rail against, and consider to be inimical even to the well-being of the TMO? I submit that you cannot. Because your present adherence to Amma arises not so much out of the expansion and deepening of your spiritual understanding of reality and the universe, but rather out of the experience of the enfeeblement of the beauty, power, and majesty of Maharishi and TM. Therefore, your disapproval of this strict sanctioning of those who would flirt with other saints, is implicitly the assertion that TM and Maharishi have lost altogether their claim of singular efficacy and authority when it comes to spiritual truth. No, unless the TMO wants to just capitulate and formally discredit the reputation of Maharishi himself as the greatest saint of the last centurymaybe of all timethey must (and I believe they do this out of real moral and metaphysical integritythey are, ironically, more sincere in upholding this ruling than you are in denouncing it) enforce this big sign in the dome saying that anybody caught helping any saint will have their dome badge taken away. And the idealistic and conscientious governor and Purusha that was Rick Archer, he would unequivocally agree with the signand even rejoice in the opportunity to take the heat from guys like you (in your present spiritual iteration). Imagine being on a Six Month Course and learning there was dozens of persons who were employing some other spiritual practice while we were obediently rounding our brains off. The sense of the vibrational interference and contamination, why it would be construed as nothing less than a diabolical attempt to destroy the purity of The Teachingand to impede our own personal evolution. This is no different, in my opinion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: My favorite such moment, just as a suddenly-triggered- memory aside, took place in Amsterdam. Me and a bunch of other guys had gone there to teach meditation, for free. The idea was that we would go and offer free courses in meditation, see who came, and then after a few months he'd come over and give a big public talk. So, having the liberty to do so, I went over to Amsterdam for a few weeks, planning to spend the first week teach- ing before he arrived for his talk and spend the two weeks afterwards teaching some more. As it turned out, other students had the same idea about the week before, and they wanted to teach, too. I graciously stepped aside and allowed them to do so, because I knew that I'd still be in Amsterdam, and thus able to do some teaching, for a couple of weeks after they left. This left me with not a whole fucking lot to do there for that first week but wander around and get to know Amsterdam. Good Thing or Big Mistake for me karmically. My life has never been the same since. Anyway, the talk around the teaching apartment, after the students had gone home, was often -- among this group of pseudo-celibate guys -- Who is going to be the first to hit the Red Light District? I listened to their raps about this but to tell the truth wasn't all that interested because I got over my Red Light District fetish when I was 15. I waited until they'd finished and then said, The real ques- tion is who is going to be the first person to hit the coffeehouses and smoke some Amsterweed? Dead silence. You could have heard a flea fart. :-) But then I raised my hand, and broke the silence. Everybody laughed, because they thought I was making a joke. But that's exactly what I did. The next day I found a cool coffeehouse, bought a big fuckin' joint of a brand of Amsterweed called -- no shit -- Laughing Buddha, and inhaled my first puff of that herb since the late Sixties. And it was good. :-) I thoroughly enjoyed having my assemblage point shifted in a major way by the improvements that the Dutch had made to lowly marijuana. :-) The point, and the relevance to the above stories about running into your spiritual teacher after or during a cool period of time for you subjectively, is that after the week was up I wound up sitting across a table from Rama at the five-star hotel he was staying at. It was just me, one other student, and Rama. As you might imagine, I was sitting there thinking, What if he can tell that I've been toking up every night? What will he say? What will he do? He looked at me, not having seem me for a few weeks, and said, This place agrees with you. I haven't seen you this happy and this full of light in years. Go figure. Go fuckin' figure. I know. We were so young then that we did not have the simple wisdom to ask the obvious questions, like what do you make of my current experiences (to MMY), or how can this be if I have been smoking dope for the past week? And we were settled into a mode of thinking that shied away from being so direct and even thinking like that (at least I was) and we were young and respecting our older revered teachers. That was certainly part of it. Thanks again for getting what I was getting at in relating this story. Part of it was indeed that reluctance to ask the dude hard questions like, Now wait a minute...I know you have no hard and fast rules about doing drugs, but how can you reconcile what you just said to me with what you've said before about grass lowering one's state of attention? As you say, I was reluctant to get into that level of detail with him, so I didn't broach the subject at the time (the day he was to give his talk). As it turned out, given the experience at the talk itself, and his reaction to it, which triggered my heavy doubts about him and whether I should continue studying with him, I didn't broach the subject later, either. The reception of the students we had invited to his talk was...uh...less than favorable. They not only didn't like him, some of them hated him. From his side, he took this very personally and started (from my point of view) acting out his frustration with them during the talk itself. Imagine some of the ways Jim Flanegin acted out on this forum when people didn't respond to his announced enlight- enmentitudeness the way he wanted them to, squared. :-) He cancelled the entire Amsterdam teaching experi- ment and called off the game, took his ball and went home, Some of the things he said about the experience soured me forever on him and
Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint LoseYour BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN in ladies DOME?
I will check the ladies Dome, checked 4 such. ... ...Exactly where 2 look in the dome? NOT LOCATED IN THE MENS DOME In a message dated 6/16/2011 11:31:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, r...@searchsummit.com writes: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wle...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint Lose Your BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN WHICH DOME? @ friends do NOT locate the sign in the men's dome? So exactly where is it located so we may verify this??, PLEASE if not present now what date was it there where exactly also 4 verification. Thanks in advance. Maybe just the ladies dome, because the person who told us this is of the female persuasion.
RE: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint LoseYour BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN in ladies DOME?
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wle...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:08 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint LoseYour BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN in ladies DOME? I will check the ladies Dome, checked 4 such. ... ... Exactly where 2 look in the dome? Don't know. I'll ask. NOT LOCATED IN THE MENS DOME In a message dated 6/16/2011 11:31:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, r...@searchsummit.com writes: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wle...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint Lose Your BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN WHICH DOME? @ friends do NOT locate the sign in the men's dome? So exactly where is it located so we may verify this??, PLEASE if not present now what date was it there where exactly also 4 verification. Thanks in advance. Maybe just the ladies dome, because the person who told us this is of the female persuasion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A few Good Books
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I recently read A Hole at the Bottom of the Sea by journalist Joel Achenbach, a very well-done blow-by-blow account for the general reader of the Deepwater Horizon disaster. One big disappointment: he tells you almost nothing about the operators of the underwater remote vehicles that actually did most of the incredibly exacting physical work of rebuilding the wellhead to stop the gusher. I read so much nonfiction on the Web that I stick mostly with fiction for bedtime reading. The Brothers Boswell by Philip Baruth is a sort of literary thriller told from the perspective of the brother of James Boswell, the biographer of Samuel Johnson. Very offbeat, gorgeously written. I found it oddly unsatisfying at the end, but it's one heck of a ride. I'm on a historical mystery kick and have been working my way through two historical detective series that I've been greatly enjoying. One is the Matthew Shardlake novels by C.J. Sansome. Set in Tudor England in the waning days of Henry VIII, they involve the attempts of a middle-aged hunchbacked London lawyer to unravel various murders and political plots. They're generally very well written with a great deal of engrossing period detail (although the author has a few careless tics that can be annoying and should have been cleaned up by his editors). Shardlake is a fascinating character study as he develops through the novels in the series, a good-hearted, honest, intelligent, reflective man with the best of motives whose personality flaws often get him in trouble nonetheless. These are *long* novels, 500-700 pages, and while there's plenty of action, they don't always move at a breakneck pace. You have to be willing to let the author take his time unfolding the story and just let yourself soak in the setting. The other set of historical mysteries is the Sugawara Akitada series, set in 11th-century Japan, by I.J. Parker. Much of what I said above about the Shardlake series applies to this one as well, but the setting is much less familiar and even more colorful. For me, the main attraction here is not so much the plots (which are intricate and certainly compelling) but the main character, who is so enormously engaging in his complexity and humanity that I actually feel bereft of his company when I finish one of the novels. He's such a vivid personality it's hard not to imagine he must have been a real person who has channeled himself through Parker. The quality of Parker's writing is uneven. It's mostly very good--and there are some wonderfully lyrical passages--but every now and then you'll run into awkward bits, especially in the dialogue. Both series, although they're very neatly plotted, are primarily character driven, so you should, if possible, read them in order, as all the important characters develop and change over the course of the series. More than enough light but absorbing reading to last through the summer. (And all but the most recent in each series are available used on Amazon for under a dollar plus $3.98 shipping.) This is my 50th for the week. See you all Friday or Saturday. Thanks for the ideas - will start with Sugara Akitada series
Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint LoseYour BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN in ladies DO...
mean while I will find several to look . NONE found in the men's dome as of yesterday Wed 15 June 11 In a message dated 6/16/2011 2:16:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, r...@searchsummit.com writes: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wle...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:08 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint LoseYour BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN in ladies DOME? I will check the ladies Dome, checked 4 such. ... ... Exactly where 2 look in the dome? ; Don’t know. I’ll ask. NOT LOCATED IN THE MENS DOME In a message dated 6/16/2011 11:31:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _rick@searchsummit.com_ (mailto:r...@searchsummit.com) writes: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wle...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife]Help4a Saint Lose Your BadgeWHERE IS THE SIGN WHICH DOME? @ friends do NOT locate the sign in the men's dome? So exactly where is it located so we may verify this??, PLEASE if not present now what date was it there where exactly also 4 verification. Thanks in advance. Maybe just the ladies dome, because the person who told us this is of the female persuasion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A few Good Books
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I rarely buy or read books, but I have purchased three books in recent months. Two are about cooking grass-fed meat, and the third is Wild Fermentation, which is all about making cultured/fermented foods.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: MIU anti-saint? WTF! Let's recap the teaching. All humans have an innate capacity to reach the ground of all being, the home of all the laws of nature, the source of thought, the Self in a simple natural, innocent way. Through repeated exposure to this level of life alternated by activity consisting of speaking in a soft lilting voice and eating mountains of celebration cake ... :-) ...you stabilize this state of consciousness into a permanent state where you are functioning according to all the laws spontaneously due to the need of the time or in accordance with the dictates of movement lawyers. But if you claim to have gotten there some other way than TM then you are to be shunned? Even if you claim to have gotten there through TM you can't put out a shingle that says I know some stuff you really aught to know, but Maharishi didn't have time to lay on us you are gunna get in trouuble. Sometimes I wonder if the movement believes its own rap. This suspicion of any other system based on the implied arrogance of TM being the best, highest, whateverest technique was totally pervasive when I taught. While all of this is true, there is another paradigm in place now. Not only is what Maharishi taught during his lifetime the best, highest, whateverest teaching ever, *it's all you ever need to learn*. There will never be any new teachings of techniques from the TMO. And everyone knows it. There is no one that anyone would trust to come up with anything new. So this new paradigm becomes a default. You have to somehow sell the existing TBs on believing it, and on continuing to believe it for the rest of their lives, otherwise you risk them going to other vendors to supplement what they learned from Maharishi. Can't have that. And since no one in the TMO has the believability or charisma to sell *that*, even to the TBs, they resort to punishment instead. Make it a mortal sin (punish- able by excommunication) to visit other vendors. Come up with a dogma that suggests that not only is it Off The Program to cheat on Maharishi by seeing other teachers, it's somehow an insult to his memory, even though he's...uh...dead. The bottom line of this policy is, We have nothing more we can teach you. We will *never* have anything more we can teach you, because the source of our teachings is now pushing up lotuses in the Ganges. But we will punish you severely if you dare to visit anyone who *does* have anything new they can teach you.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
On 06/16/2011 10:46 AM, Rick Archer wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I saw Ammachi only once while staying at the Kerela ashram. Funny thing was watching Indian teenagers throwing a tantrum because their parents had dragged them along and they didn't like being at an ashram with all the rules. I've visited the San Ramon ashram once when a friend was visiting and wanted to see but that was not when Ammachi was there. At the Kerela ashram I was talking to the videographer and realized the guy standing next to him was a TM mucky-mucky back in the day I knew. I also knew his wife who I spotted later in the distance. However after chatting with him I no longer saw them during the duration of the stay which made me wonder if they had some rule about talking to visitors who had known them in the past. ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Raja Peters Inspiring News
Maharishi’s Global Family Chat Summary June 15, 2011 Inspiring News Did you know? Transcendence, Dr. Norman Rosenthal’s book, is now available from Penguin, and is on the New York Times bestseller list. 235,000 students in 750 educational institutions in 49 countries have been introduced to Transcendental Meditation. There was a 20% increase in the graduation rate in US high schools for students practicing Transcendental Meditation. ‘David Lynch on TM, creativity and peace’ is a 68 minute DVD documentary available through the David Lynch Foundation, and it is powerful, fascinating, entertaining, and profound. David Lynch Music is bringing musicians and the public together to raise funds for world peace. Balancing Weight with Maharishi Ayurveda is a series of CDs and leaflets full of practical information in the entertaining Irish style of Dr. Donn Brennan And that all this and more is contained in the monthly Transcendental Meditation News magazine—all reported by Raja Peter in Maharishi’s Global Family Chat today. http://www.t-m.org.uk/meditation-news/ NEW SERVICE now available for Maharishi Channel 3 on the iPad and iPhone. Subscribe here. See the Maharishi Global Family Chat summaries online Visit the Maharishi’s Global Family Chat Archives Contribute to the Maharishi Channel http://www.maharishichannel.in/econtact_mailing/MAILING_OUT/2011_06/2011_06_15_Raja_Peter_news.html
[FairfieldLife] Man in Bondage?
Hugh Hefner. http://omg.yahoo.com/news/next-playboy-has-runaway-bride-sticker-on-cover/65192
[FairfieldLife] Re: Raja Peters Inspiring News
http://www.types-of-flowers.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/lotus_flower-300x225.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merlin vedamerlin@... wrote: Maharishiâs Global Family Chat Summary June 15, 2011 Inspiring News Did you know? Transcendence, Dr. Norman Rosenthalâs book, is now available from Penguin, and is on the New York Times bestseller list. 235,000 students in 750 educational institutions in 49 countries have been introduced to Transcendental Meditation. There was a 20% increase in the graduation rate in US high schools for students practicing Transcendental Meditation. âDavid Lynch on TM, creativity and peaceâ is a 68 minute DVD documentary available through the David Lynch Foundation, and it is powerful, fascinating, entertaining, and profound. David Lynch Music is bringing musicians and the public together to raise funds for world peace. Balancing Weight with Maharishi Ayurveda is a series of CDs and leaflets full of practical information in the entertaining Irish style of Dr. Donn Brennan And that all this and more is contained in the monthly Transcendental Meditation News magazineâall reported by Raja Peter in Maharishiâs Global Family Chat today. http://www.t-m.org.uk/meditation-news/ NEW SERVICE now available for Maharishi Channel 3 on the iPad and iPhone. Subscribe here. See the Maharishi Global Family Chat summaries online Visit the Maharishiâs Global Family Chat Archives Contribute to the Maharishi Channel   http://www.maharishichannel.in/econtact_mailing/MAILING_OUT/2011_06/2011_06_15_Raja_Peter_news.html  Â
[FairfieldLife] Re: Man in Bondage?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: Hugh Hefner. http://omg.yahoo.com/news/next-playboy-has-runaway-bride-sticker-on-cover/65192 Harsh. Not Hefner's decision to put a Breaking News sticker over her picture on the cover of the already-off-the- presses July issue to let everyone know that the wedding is off. To me that's just good business sense; this issue will sell three to four times more than a normal issue at the newsstands. What's harsh is reading the article and hearing that his runaway bride ran off with the dude's dog. That's harsh. A Playboy Playmate fiance who runs off just before your wedding a man can get over. But the loss of one's dog? Harsh. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Some of the most beautiful photographs you'll ever see
http://www.stevemccurry.com Click on 'Galleries' and start with 'Portraits'. You'll know some of them already. He says that he searches for the unguarded moment, and obviously he finds them. Then work your way through some of the other galleries, like '108 Buddhas' or 'Japan 5-2011' or 'Landscapes'. You could fritter away days on this site.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A few Good Books
Fermentation is the wave of the future; (of course beer has been around a long time), with the Japanese leading the field for innovative applications. One example: a powerful form of Vit. K2 from Natto. Unfortunately the supermarket Natto is loaded with salt. ... Vit K is naturally found in many green veggies but most people don't get enough. Basically, it prevents calcium buildup in the vascular system and puts the calcium where it belongs - in the bones. (not too much in one's brain or arteries.). ... Although heavy metals can cause acute toxic death and severe problems especially in the young (e.g. lead poisoning); the culprit for aging people is calcium - too much of it in the wrong places. Natto K7 (that's a brand name) will take care of that problem. .. A misguided approach would be to take more calcium than needed, which is what many women do, thinking this will offset osteoporosis. Not necessarily. Could cause hardening of the arteries. Look what is does to ordinary pipes. http://textbookofbacteriology.net/themicrobialworld/fermentation_products.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I rarely buy or read books, but I have purchased three books in recent months. Two are about cooking grass-fed meat, and the third is Wild Fermentation, which is all about making cultured/fermented foods.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A few Good Books
Slavery is the Highest Enlightenment: the story of O mmm. by Anarkhia Philosophos, Hierodule Publications, 2009 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
Discriminations and exclusions are acceptable for religious institutions, since many are privately funded. There is wiggle room in the definitions for exclusions. MIU is not described as a religious institution. However, who has the $$$ to challenge it anyway? Who even cares? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Rick Archer wrote: You and I and others could offer our definitions, but what MUM means by this is that Amma is coming here in about a week, and they don't want anyone putting up posters, etc. Several people who had offered their support and who have been seeing her for years, have now withdrawn their support, although they will still see her, albeit with some degree of paranoia. Fairfield's own version of being in the closet. Sal Just wonderingis there anything illegal about denying access to programs based on this kind of rule? Could someone make a case about this?
[FairfieldLife] O-Bama in 2012
O Ba Ma in 2012 Get out and vote... yours truely, Uncle Sama Hadi
[FairfieldLife] Luther, season two
Better writing, acting, and plotting in the first two and a half minutes of the first episode of the new season than in 90% of what I've seen on television since the first season ended. *Incredibly* powerful television. Idris Elba rules. Thanks for the heads-up, Paligap.
Re: [FairfieldLife] O-Bama in 2012
On 06/16/2011 01:13 PM, Robert wrote: O Ba Ma in 2012 Get out and vote... yours truely, Uncle Sama Hadi Certainly not if he starts WWIII shortly. What the hell does he think he is doing in Libya? He's breaking the law. If it were Bush everyone would screaming. And if Obama starts WWIII there may be no one alive in America to vote in 2012. War is war regardless who has the chessboard and real liberals don't play war.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Some of the most beautiful photographs you'll ever see
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of turquoiseb Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 2:45 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Some of the most beautiful photographs you'll ever see http://www.stevemccurry.com Click on 'Galleries' and start with 'Portraits'. You'll know some of them already. He says that he searches for the unguarded moment, and obviously he finds them. Then work your way through some of the other galleries, like '108 Buddhas' or 'Japan 5-2011' or 'Landscapes'. You could fritter away days on this site. beautiful indeed. Thanks.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Some of the most beautiful photographs you'll ever see
Wow what a find. How the hell does he get that color saturation and textures in people's faces? I guess this is one guy who mourned the loss of Kodachrome film processing this year more than anyone. I hope he can pull this off in digital. Amazing! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: http://www.stevemccurry.com Click on 'Galleries' and start with 'Portraits'. You'll know some of them already. He says that he searches for the unguarded moment, and obviously he finds them. Then work your way through some of the other galleries, like '108 Buddhas' or 'Japan 5-2011' or 'Landscapes'. You could fritter away days on this site.
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Jun 11 00:00:00 2011 End Date (UTC): Sat Jun 18 00:00:00 2011 409 messages as of (UTC) Thu Jun 16 23:52:08 2011 50 authfriend jst...@panix.com 39 turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com 30 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 26 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 25 Yifu yifux...@yahoo.com 20 WillyTex willy...@yahoo.com 19 seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net 17 sparaig lengli...@cox.net 16 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 15 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 13 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 13 Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net 12 wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com 12 Robert babajii...@yahoo.com 11 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 11 merudanda no_re...@yahoogroups.com 10 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com 9 Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com 8 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com 7 tartbrain no_re...@yahoogroups.com 6 John jr_...@yahoo.com 5 whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com 5 emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com 5 Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com 4 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 3 wle...@aol.com 3 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net 2 merlin vedamer...@yahoo.de 2 jpgillam jpgil...@yahoo.com 2 feste37 fest...@yahoo.com 2 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 pranamoocher no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 obbajeeba no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 maskedzebra no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 gita gita...@sbcglobal.net 1 dmevans365 dmevans...@yahoo.com 1 Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com 1 PaliGap compost...@yahoo.co.uk Posters: 38 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Vitamin K (was: Re: A few Good Books)
I take a Vit K1/K2 supplement from the folks at LEF: http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/viksukadk2co.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: Fermentation is the wave of the future; (of course beer has been around a long time), with the Japanese leading the field for innovative applications. One example: a powerful form of Vit. K2 from Natto. Unfortunately the supermarket Natto is loaded with salt. ... Vit K is naturally found in many green veggies but most people don't get enough. Basically, it prevents calcium buildup in the vascular system and puts the calcium where it belongs - in the bones. (not too much in one's brain or arteries.). ... Although heavy metals can cause acute toxic death and severe problems especially in the young (e.g. lead poisoning); the culprit for aging people is calcium - too much of it in the wrong places. Natto K7 (that's a brand name) will take care of that problem. .. A misguided approach would be to take more calcium than needed, which is what many women do, thinking this will offset osteoporosis. Not necessarily. Could cause hardening of the arteries. Look what is does to ordinary pipes. http://textbookofbacteriology.net/themicrobialworld/fermentation_products.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I rarely buy or read books, but I have purchased three books in recent months. Two are about cooking grass-fed meat, and the third is Wild Fermentation, which is all about making cultured/fermented foods.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A few Good Books
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I recently read A Hole at the Bottom of the Sea by journalist Joel Achenbach, a very well-done blow-by-blow account for the general reader of the Deepwater Horizon disaster. One big disappointment: he tells you almost nothing about the operators of the underwater remote vehicles that actually did most of the incredibly exacting physical work of rebuilding the wellhead to stop the gusher. I read so much nonfiction on the Web that I stick mostly with fiction for bedtime reading. The Brothers Boswell by Philip Baruth is a sort of literary thriller told from the perspective of the brother of James Boswell, the biographer of Samuel Johnson. Very offbeat, gorgeously written. I found it oddly unsatisfying at the end, but it's one heck of a ride. I'm on a historical mystery kick and have been working my way through two historical detective series that I've been greatly enjoying. One is the Matthew Shardlake novels by C.J. Sansome. Set in Tudor England in the waning days of Henry VIII, they involve the attempts of a middle-aged hunchbacked London lawyer to unravel various murders and political plots. They're generally very well written with a great deal of engrossing period detail (although the author has a few careless tics that can be annoying and should have been cleaned up by his editors). Shardlake is a fascinating character study as he develops through the novels in the series, a good-hearted, honest, intelligent, reflective man with the best of motives whose personality flaws often get him in trouble nonetheless. These are *long* novels, 500-700 pages, and while there's plenty of action, they don't always move at a breakneck pace. You have to be willing to let the author take his time unfolding the story and just let yourself soak in the setting. The other set of historical mysteries is the Sugawara Akitada series, set in 11th-century Japan, by I.J. Parker. Much of what I said above about the Shardlake series applies to this one as well, but the setting is much less familiar and even more colorful. For me, the main attraction here is not so much the plots (which are intricate and certainly compelling) but the main character, who is so enormously engaging in his complexity and humanity that I actually feel bereft of his company when I finish one of the novels. He's such a vivid personality it's hard not to imagine he must have been a real person who has channeled himself through Parker. The quality of Parker's writing is uneven. It's mostly very good--and there are some wonderfully lyrical passages--but every now and then you'll run into awkward bits, especially in the dialogue. Both series, although they're very neatly plotted, are primarily character driven, so you should, if possible, read them in order, as all the important characters develop and change over the course of the series. More than enough light but absorbing reading to last through the summer. (And all but the most recent in each series are available used on Amazon for under a dollar plus $3.98 shipping.) This is my 50th for the week. See you all Friday or Saturday. Thanks for the ideas - will start with Sugara Akitada series For those that like to listen to books, Audible.com has these two. http://www.audible.com/search/ref=sr_lftbox_1_1 a bit pricey at regular price but a credit costs $8-11 or so depending on your subsciption level.
[FairfieldLife] Re: O-Bama in 2012
Yeah, right on! Like J.F. K. or somethin'! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Certainly not if he starts WWIII shortly. What the hell does he think he is doing in Libya? He's breaking the law. If it were Bush everyone would screaming. And if Obama starts WWIII there may be no one alive in America to vote in 2012. War is war regardless who has the chessboard and real liberals don't play war.
[FairfieldLife] Vitamin K (was: Re: A few Good Books)
Excellent!...I devour each issue of LEF cover to cover. Latest issue features Astaxanthin, a very powerful carotenoid found in crustaceans such as krill. Other carotenoids (fat soluble btw) would be beta carotene, lutein (marigolds and greens), and lycopene (tomatoes). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: I take a Vit K1/K2 supplement from the folks at LEF: http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/viksukadk2co.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Fermentation is the wave of the future; (of course beer has been around a long time), with the Japanese leading the field for innovative applications. One example: a powerful form of Vit. K2 from Natto. Unfortunately the supermarket Natto is loaded with salt. ... Vit K is naturally found in many green veggies but most people don't get enough. Basically, it prevents calcium buildup in the vascular system and puts the calcium where it belongs - in the bones. (not too much in one's brain or arteries.). ... Although heavy metals can cause acute toxic death and severe problems especially in the young (e.g. lead poisoning); the culprit for aging people is calcium - too much of it in the wrong places. Natto K7 (that's a brand name) will take care of that problem. .. A misguided approach would be to take more calcium than needed, which is what many women do, thinking this will offset osteoporosis. Not necessarily. Could cause hardening of the arteries. Look what is does to ordinary pipes. http://textbookofbacteriology.net/themicrobialworld/fermentation_products.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Any good reading suggestions for the summer - fiction or non? I rarely buy or read books, but I have purchased three books in recent months. Two are about cooking grass-fed meat, and the third is Wild Fermentation, which is all about making cultured/fermented foods.
[FairfieldLife] Re: O-Bama in 2012
Liberals don't play war? What about Clinton, what about LBJ and Kennedy? I'm not politically savvy, maybe they weren't true liberals. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Yeah, right on! Like J.F. K. or somethin'! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Certainly not if he starts WWIII shortly. What the hell does he think he is doing in Libya? He's breaking the law. If it were Bush everyone would screaming. And if Obama starts WWIII there may be no one alive in America to vote in 2012. War is war regardless who has the chessboard and real liberals don't play war.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge
Gilster, BTW, awesome interview by Jeremy of Benny Blanco http://jeremygillam.com/ http://jeremygillam.com/ If others here don't have teenagers (especially girls) or listen to pop music they may not realize just who he is, and the songs he has helped produce. But here is the real story, behind the story Good stuff. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: I think it's a pity that the movement continues to sabotage its own interests by behaving like a blinking cult. Many of us think the TM organization's prime interest is to teach TM, but that's a mistake on our part. The TM organization's prime interest is to maintain the purity of the teaching. That's why it bans cross-pollination with other teachings. Behaving like a cult does not interfere with, and may actually promote, the maintenance of the teaching in the form Maharishi transmitted it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: when people didn't respond to his announced enlight- enmentitudeness the way he wanted them to. As elaborated in an adjacent post, the 10,000 QA at the mic between MMY and those on the course were often about experiences. I never saw a big reaction from MMY. No hot damn! thats IT! You GOT it bro!! High five! One got guidance, but not ego boosting (which is a step in the counter direction). Sometimes there was ego busting. The / a lesson from witnessing this huge QA parade was that: 1) experiences were natural, they were not something to make a big fuss about, no special status was given, everything from normalization to peak experiences were part of the whole, no need to make a big fuss about the whole. 2) even the most detailed clear experiences were basically classified as hmm, something good is happening, but that's not IT. That is, what many self-diagnosed, and perhaps self-confirmed to be higher states were not. It produced a certain healthy rational skepticism about self-confirmed claims of higher states. 3) one generally didn't talk about their experiences outside of the QA with MMY. Progress was being made was the only important thing. No need to talk about it or broadcast it. 4) Sort of like the first rule of enlightenment club is there is no enlightenment club. Good points, but there seems to be a pretty big reconstructionist movement here. I enjoy your posts because you acknowledge both sides of the issue. I've got to say that Barry pushes, I mean really pushes, the this guy was an average Joe, no more enlightened than the baker down the street POV. If I understand what Barry often says, (and I'm sure I don't), he pretty much debunks the whole notion of higher states of conscioussness. Curtis too seems to be in this camp. Pretty much it can be chalked up to random brain activity, that we humans like to chalk up to something special. I guess since we can't prove it in an objective way, it's all subjective speculation. Me (as Barry would say). I got too much wonder going on to buy into that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Two Approaches To Spiritual Teaching - Theory vs. Practice
Damn, I'm good. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Tart, *not* wishing to argue with you or diminish what you say in any way, just presenting a Deva's Advocate position the same way Curtis might, do you notice that the personalized feedback I have highlighted below, along with my occasional comments in brackets, is a lot like cold reading of pretend psychics or stage magicians or charlatan astrologers? That is, no actual personal information is conveyed at all. Instead, a general statement that could apply to anyone is presented, leaving the person to whom it is presented to project into it whatever meaning they wish to. In other words, each of these statements can be seen as fodder for confirmation bias, and not personal at all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: My experience and observation was that MMY was quite involved in acknowledging and providing feedback on experience. First, in every flower line [* Just pointing out that waiting in a flower line is in itself setting up confirmation bias. You're standing there for minutes or hours waiting, waiting, waiting, priming yourself for something good to happen. Who should be surprised when it does? *] (4-8 per day) he would stop at at particular person and say *Hmm, enjoying, Hmm, very good* or something similar -- which appeared to be an acknowledgment and encouragement of their particular state or experience at that time. For example, as MMY entered into the lecture hall, a woman (said later) she was seeing the heavens open up, and hordes of angels or such descend as MMY entered the hall) and he stopped and said *Hmm, its beautiful, yes*. And he acknowledged personal situations. At the beginning of my TTC he asked each of us to come forward, to approach him (I think we gave him a flower, or simply bowed our heads) and he said to me *ah, you made it*. Prior to that, while I had been on two courses with him, up to that time there was no reason for him to know who I was - I had not met privately with him or been at the mic for questions. But it had been a big production to get to TTC -- and he somehow knew that and acknowledged it. Some years later, a friend who had been teaching in a distant land came back to see him and the first thing MMY said was *Hmm, so you have been bored, yes?* My friend was very clear in his mind that MMY was referring to his many dalliances with local women. [* Again, no specific information was conveyed, merely a vague, generic statement that could have meant anything, but was interpreted by the student to mean whatever he determined it meant. *] snip And sometimes, *it was just a look he gave - and that was all that was needed. Or, he would just start lecturing on a point that was on someones mind* (which may have been coincidental -- but happened a lot.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Ravi Guru will have a word with you. Please hold. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dmevans365 dmevans365@... wrote: I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an energy transfer or hit during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a powerful person energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process. This time we went individually and brought our questions that we kept in our minds, as Amma could supposedly intuit and respond. Again, a manhandled hug routine (hands placed particularly, head pushed forward on chest, with a monotone repetition of a word in the right ear). I attended the IAM meditation course and enjoyed it, but was put off by the requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement. It was at this point I began to feel like I was being encouraged to pray to Amma - based on the Swami lectures, instruction and visualization received during the meditation. Amma was continually reinforced as the form to keep in our minds. We continued through the weekend - were full of so much energy Sunday evening that we worked out between 10-11 PM. We did our Seva at dinner by helping load dishes into the cart, which was fun. We participated in standing in line for hours and receiving hugs in the morning and evening, wanting to follow the scripted schedule and also waiting to feel this overwhelming love connection that so many talked about. We received blessed candy and got the dolls blessed. Monday I was up at 6:15 to do the yoga class. Monday evening was Dhevi Bhava - lots of ceremony and long, translated talk that was starting to feel very top down and condescending. Blessed water, chanting to music, change in Amma's costume to the crown and gown, and the hugs began with the loud bhajans (music) sung by a swami and group in the background. The music/chanting was very loud, repetitive, and mesmerizing; the Swami's voice was very hypnotic; the Swami lectures were full of what seemed like very conflicting messages which confused me on several levels (is the underlying message that we should all pray to Amma as God?), and I was feeling like I was on some kind of wierd emotional and energetic high. I decided also that I wanted a mantra to aid me on my path of forgiveness. So I said the word mantra at the last hug as instructed. I knew nothing of mantras or initiation and clearly misunderstood what they are. I read the sheet passed around. I was shepherded into a circle with others and asked for my definition of God - I stated the Universe. I was told that a mantra did not address any aspects of God, such as forgiveness, but that this would
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NUXrpV4Ao68/TLZm2D22PVI/AFA/pbLjLDm-s_o/s1600/blue-e-meter.jpg (might work) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: O-Bama in 2012
No I wasn't happy with Clinton's war ventures but they were a bit minor compared to the present day crap our military is doing. During the bombing of Belgrade people on the Jyotish group from there complaining about our planes bombing them. That was a weird experience. But Clinton wasn't a liberal either but more middle of the road. LBJ = machine politics. JFK tried to stop the MIC and you see what he got for it. Dennis Kucinich was on Karel's show in the first hour today talking about Obama's war: http://archives2011.gcnlive.com/Archives2011/jun11/Karel/0616111.mp3 BTW, Karel isn't your usual GCN talk show host. I'm wondering what the Chrischun listeners think? :-D On 06/16/2011 06:54 PM, seekliberation wrote: Liberals don't play war? What about Clinton, what about LBJ and Kennedy? I'm not politically savvy, maybe they weren't true liberals. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybillemptybill@... wrote: Yeah, right on! Like J.F. K. or somethin'! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@ wrote: Certainly not if he starts WWIII shortly. What the hell does he think he is doing in Libya? He's breaking the law. If it were Bush everyone would screaming. And if Obama starts WWIII there may be no one alive in America to vote in 2012. War is war regardless who has the chessboard and real liberals don't play war.
[FairfieldLife] One's Own Ishta-Devataa
Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
[FairfieldLife] Re: One's Own Ishta-Devataa
Interesting idea...thx for mentioning it; though I prefer Goddesses such as Kwan Yin; ymmv http://www.mykwanyin.com/images/00kuan_yin_1_.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NUXrpV4Ao68/TLZm2D22PVI/AFA/pbLjLDm-s_\ o/s1600/blue-e-meter.jpg (might work) might work? might work? you're posting state of the art gear. This is is LRH tech that is as cutting edge as the day it was invented. might work, bah! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: One's Own Ishta-Devataa
Are you sure you don't mean this Kwan? http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: Interesting idea...thx for mentioning it; though I prefer Goddesses such as Kwan Yin; ymmv http://www.mykwanyin.com/images/00kuan_yin_1_.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
My auditing sessions at the LA Center long ago ended in disaster. Forgot what they call it, but if the person's being audited have an intense reaction to some of the questions, the e-meter basically goes haywire and the auditor(s) have to record it as such, with very negative consequences to them - the auditors, for letting it happen. I just left and never returned. http://www.scientology.cc/en_US/about/presentation/auditing.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NUXrpV4Ao68/TLZm2D22PVI/AFA/pbLjLDm-s_\ o/s1600/blue-e-meter.jpg (might work) might work? might work? you're posting state of the art gear. This is is LRH tech that is as cutting edge as the day it was invented. might work, bah! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: One's Own Ishta-Devataa
...I'd have to deal with the pet first http://www.fantasygallery.net/bader/art_0_bamboo-Forest.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: Are you sure you don't mean this Kwan? http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Interesting idea...thx for mentioning it; though I prefer Goddesses such as Kwan Yin; ymmv http://www.mykwanyin.com/images/00kuan_yin_1_.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
[FairfieldLife] Re: One's Own Ishta-Devataa
You know of course her mother was human, but her father was Pandorian. That hasn't escaped you I presume. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: ...I'd have to deal with the pet first http://www.fantasygallery.net/bader/art_0_bamboo-Forest.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Are you sure you don't mean this Kwan? http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Interesting idea...thx for mentioning it; though I prefer Goddesses such as Kwan Yin; ymmv http://www.mykwanyin.com/images/00kuan_yin_1_.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
[FairfieldLife] Re: One's Own Ishta-Devataa
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: You know of course her mother was human, but her father was Pandorian. For whatever reason the human gene has always been dominant to the Pandorian one. Not sure why. We see this all the time. That hasn't escaped you I presume. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: ...I'd have to deal with the pet first http://www.fantasygallery.net/bader/art_0_bamboo-Forest.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Are you sure you don't mean this Kwan? http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Interesting idea...thx for mentioning it; though I prefer Goddesses such as Kwan Yin; ymmv http://www.mykwanyin.com/images/00kuan_yin_1_.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
[FairfieldLife] Re: One's Own Ishta-Devataa
I lvvveee those Pandorans! http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2006/celebdatabase/deniserichards/denise_richards1_300_400.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: You know of course her mother was human, but her father was Pandorian. For whatever reason the human gene has always been dominant to the Pandorian one. Not sure why. We see this all the time. That hasn't escaped you I presume. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: ...I'd have to deal with the pet first http://www.fantasygallery.net/bader/art_0_bamboo-Forest.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Are you sure you don't mean this Kwan? http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Interesting idea...thx for mentioning it; though I prefer Goddesses such as Kwan Yin; ymmv http://www.mykwanyin.com/images/00kuan_yin_1_.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
[FairfieldLife] Re: One's Own Ishta-Devataa
Pandora http://www.rctorres.net/wp-content/gallery/2d-work/plight_of_pandora1700.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: I lvvveee those Pandorans! http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2006/celebdatabase/deniserichards/denise_richards1_300_400.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: You know of course her mother was human, but her father was Pandorian. For whatever reason the human gene has always been dominant to the Pandorian one. Not sure why. We see this all the time. That hasn't escaped you I presume. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: ...I'd have to deal with the pet first http://www.fantasygallery.net/bader/art_0_bamboo-Forest.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Are you sure you don't mean this Kwan? http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html http://www.usa-hero.com/kwan_michelle.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: Interesting idea...thx for mentioning it; though I prefer Goddesses such as Kwan Yin; ymmv http://www.mykwanyin.com/images/00kuan_yin_1_.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Can we take our own future enlightenment as our ishta-devataa (meditation deity) in this lifetime? One of the definitions of final enlightenment (samyak.sam.bodhi) is omniscience (sarva-jñana) and supremacy over all states of existence. Patanjali Yoga Sutra 3.49 says: Only one discerning (khaati) the difference (anyataa) between purusha and sattva gains supremacy (adhi.staat.rtva) over all states (bhaava) and all-knowingness (sarvajñaat.rtva). The Buddha is said to be omniscient, but only in the limited sense that although he can see whatever he chooses, he does not perceive everything simultaneously, but must turn his mind to whatever it is he wants to perceive. Thus in the Theravada tradition, the Buddha denies that anyone can see everything in a single act of cognition (ekachaitanyam). However, one of the signal events of a Buddha's enlightenment is direct perception of his own past lives. This means he is not bound by the conventional ideas of separation between the past, the present and future. Thus the obvious question: In the future, in your fully enlightened state, are you looking at yourself right at this very moment? Considering this ultimate universal-supremacy and omniscience, can you take yourself as your own ishta-devatta, as that one who transforms you into Tad-Ekam or That One? Not some airy-fairy higher self but in the immediacy and directness of this present awareness? ..
