[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment in about 5 minutes??
https://youtu.be/uhfAxUBqEfs?t=20m10s https://youtu.be/uhfAxUBqEfs?t=20m10s
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment: What is it like?
Response by Eckert Tolle, 11 min video. His answer emphasizes mental peace on various levels such as reduction in the numbers of thoughts, diminished labeling without giving up labeling when necessary, and (but more important), an actual "state" of peace, although he doesn't use the word state. On the whole I'd say he failed to fully answer the key part about the questioner's term "perception". To say that everything's peaceful doesn't touch upon the components of perception. Also, his reply differs from some of the Batgappers, but offhand, I'd say that his orientation is largely Neo-Advaitin, like most of the Batgappers. Eckhart Tolle - What Is Enlightenment Like? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F-l28k-be4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F-l28k-be4 Eckhart Tolle - What Is Enlightenment Like? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F-l28k-be4 Trust The PAIN In Your Life. View Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCMunBFFY_A I Need Say Nothing. View Here: https://www.youtube.com/w... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F-l28k-be4 Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Story of Wayne Wirs
Another Advaitin like most of the Batgappers. (a claimant to Enlightenment, but I doubt it) Says that his main approach was neti neti but the last stage of his quest was inspired by a frog that he saw while climbing Mt. Hood.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8R2yEYxbPk at Wayne http://www.waynewirs.com http://www.waynewirs.com Wayne http://www.waynewirs.com Enlightened author, photographer, and nomad Wayne (Wirs) blogs on Mystical Oneness. View on www.waynewirs.com http://www.waynewirs.com Preview by Yahoo .
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Yup, whence faced with all the ignorance and negativity around here things like this needs to be said periodically as good reminder of the truth of matters, Maharishi Said: “The Veda [Scripture] reveals the unchanging Unity of life which underlies the evident multiplicity of creation, for Reality is both manifest and unmanifest, and That alone is “I am That, thou art That, and all this is That is the Truth”; and this is the kernel of the Vedic teaching, which the Rishis extold as teaching “worthy of hearing, contemplating, and realizing” fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Perfectly expressed. Barry unwittingly solidifies his position of ignorance. He is being absolutely truthful here. He doesn't know the first thing about enlightenment, except for his lifetime total of three weeks of dirty (unstable) witnessing. Enlightenment will always remain in the fiction section of his library. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I agree. Just make sure that when it comes out it's stored in the Fiction section of the library. :-) Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment A collection of Fleet's published FFL writings here about enlightenment would make a really fine anthology on the subject. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb wrote : Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-) Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was: Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-) The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-) Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment and the younger generation
Very interesting this younger gen I spoke of earlier. Unlike those of us, who have watched the progression from our ignorance, to our enlightenment, occur in this lifetime, these young, bright souls have no such path to travel. They don't see enlightenment or ignorance, for they were born fully awakened to their essential nature, pure consciousness. There is no interest for them, in something already accomplished. To interact with them is to see the future. We are very much the transitional generation, bringing consciousness to the fore, as a mediator of experience, for the first time, in many thousands of years. We can watch the transition from an ignorant world, to an enlightened one, as those who have now incarnated, simply grow up, and change the world for the better.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
A collection of Fleet's published FFL writings here about enlightenment would make a really fine anthology on the subject. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb wrote : Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-) Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was: Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-) The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-) Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I agree. Just make sure that when it comes out it's stored in the Fiction
section of the library. :-)
From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
A collection of Fleet's published FFL writings here about enlightenment
would make a really fine anthology on the subject. -Buck in the Dome
turquoiseb wrote :
Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him.
Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass,
thanks. :-) :-) :-)
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate
to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in
his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck
turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES
HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for
being enlightened.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :
That's pretty funny, Share.
I imagine the exchange went something like this.
Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this.
BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like,
people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about.
BS: But sir, I think..
BW: Okay, what is it already!
BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious
of his enlightenment.
BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let
me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any
other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold!
BS: Yes sir.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?!
From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!!
I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux
Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard.
The quote was:
Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state.
I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless,
Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he
managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really
angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing
could *possibly* be more stupid than that.
But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-)
The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED
somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened.
Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened*
to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent
turnips. :-) :-) :-)
Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are
enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state.
You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Perfectly expressed. Barry unwittingly solidifies his position of ignorance. He is being absolutely truthful here. He doesn't know the first thing about enlightenment, except for his lifetime total of three weeks of dirty (unstable) witnessing. Enlightenment will always remain in the fiction section of his library. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I agree. Just make sure that when it comes out it's stored in the Fiction section of the library. :-) From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment A collection of Fleet's published FFL writings here about enlightenment would make a really fine anthology on the subject. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb wrote : Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-) Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was: Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-) The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-) Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
On 11/21/2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: */I agree. Just make sure that when it comes out it's stored in the Fiction section of the library. :-) /* / Put it in the fiction section right next to your book, Road Trip Mind? **/ *From:* dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, November 21, 2014 1:48 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment *A collection of Fleet's published FFL writings here about enlightenment would make a really fine anthology on the subject. -Buck in the Dome* turquoiseb wrote : */Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. /* */ /* */Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-)/* *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment **I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck** *//* */*/ /*/* */turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened./* ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! */I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was:/* */ /* *Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state.* */ /* */I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. /* */ /* */But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-)/* */ /* */The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. /* */ /* */Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-)/* */ /* */Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism. /* */ /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Sorry but there ain't no stinkun Litemint. Them hindoos stole it from Buddhists and it's worth about that much. Not before, during or after a human lifetime is there Litemint. We are not born with it. Anything born will perish and therefore is just another blow job. Such a Litemint is just another toke on the prana-pipe. Invert attention to its source-field - just as it is now. That is what we are and the rest is just the fantasy of this world. WTF om gomaya svaha
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
On 11/21/2014 7:54 PM, emptybill wrote: Sorry but there ain't no stinkun Litemint. Them hindoos stole it from Buddhists and it's worth about that much. Not before, during or after a human lifetime is there Litemint. We are not born with it. Anything born will perish and therefore is just another blow job. Such a Litemint is just another toke on the prana-pipe. Invert attention to its source-field - just as it is now. That is what we are and the rest is just the fantasy of this world. WTF om gomaya svaha /Nihilism is the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless, purposeless, or lacks any intrinsic value.// // //http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism/
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment, the Most Absurd Rumor?
Defining Enlightenment, Anartaxius wrote : I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. Hows about this as an alternative for the sake of discussion: “GURU DEV, The Unified Field, bliss of the Absolute, transcendental joy, the Self-Sufficient, the embodiment of pure knowledge which is beyond and above the universe like the sky, the aim of Thou art That and other such expressions which unfold eternal truth, the One, the Eternal, the Pure, the Immoveable, the Witness of all intellects, whose status transcends thought, the Transcendent along with the three gunas, the true preceptor, to the UNIFIED FIELD SHRI GURU DEV, I bow down.” -Buck There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. -Xenophaneros Anartaxius 404951 Oblivious or Willful morally unbound? Bringing in and using the TMO as an example may not be illustrative of the nature or nurture of spiritual enlightenment lived in life. Go too far with the TMO example polluted with the story of many people then the conversation goes over to entertaining negativity and would start in to denouncing people in culture. That goes beyond spirituality and enlightenment the way Fleet is clearly talking by example. -Buck anartaxius@... wrote : I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these. Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was: Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-) The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-) Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him.
Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass,
thanks. :-) :-) :-)
From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 3:01 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can
relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and
accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck
turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES
HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for
being enlightened.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :
That's pretty funny, Share.
I imagine the exchange went something like this.
Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this.
BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like,
people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about.
BS: But sir, I think..
BW: Okay, what is it already!
BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious
of his enlightenment.
BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let
me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any
other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold!
BS: Yes sir.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?!
From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!!
I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux
Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard.
The quote was:
Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state.
I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless,
Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he
managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really
angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing
could *possibly* be more stupid than that.
But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-)
The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED
somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened.
Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened*
to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent
turnips. :-) :-) :-)
Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are
enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state.
You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
So Buck as long as someone talks the talk, you just take him at his word? Shit,
I screwed up - I should have claimed the same blabber when I first got on FFL,
claimed enlightenment and done a Meet the Enlightened Guy Tour in Fairfield
and cleaned all your wallets out. Lesson learned.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of
him.
Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass,
thanks. :-) :-) :-)
From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 3:01 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can
relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and
accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck
turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES
HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for
being enlightened.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote :
That's pretty funny, Share.
I imagine the exchange went something like this.
Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this.
BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like,
people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about.
BS: But sir, I think..
BW: Okay, what is it already!
BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious
of his enlightenment.
BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let
me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any
other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold!
BS: Yes sir.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?!
From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!!
I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux
Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard.
The quote was:
Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state.
I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless,
Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he
managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really
angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing
could *possibly* be more stupid than that.
But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-)
The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED
somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened.
Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened*
to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent
turnips. :-) :-) :-)
Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are
enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state.
You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Dear Turq's secretary, please forward the following response (and his choice of puppy chow), to our common acquaintance: Buck is not envious of me, nor is anyone else on this forum, except YOU. :-) :-) :-) The question (for you) is, WHY? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-) From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was: Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-) The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-) Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
No one is just spouting empty words, except you, and the one in the dog house. I made the point a few weeks ago, when responding to Curtis, that Enlightenment means success in the world, with family, friends, career, finances, and general accomplishment of desires. Enlightenment by itself means nothing to a householder. Pure awareness, accompanying waking, sleeping, and dreaming, brings success. I find it hilarious when I say this, and the three of you clam up, like, wellclams. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : So Buck as long as someone talks the talk, you just take him at his word? Shit, I screwed up - I should have claimed the same blabber when I first got on FFL, claimed enlightenment and done a Meet the Enlightened Guy Tour in Fairfield and cleaned all your wallets out. Lesson learned. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-) From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was: Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-) The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-) Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
On 11/20/2014 8:01 AM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote: * *I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts.* * ** /Is there any way for anyone to prove their own subjective experiences?/ /Why do you suppose Barry feels so threatened by Jim's subjective experiences? / * *I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck* * / I can understand why Barry would be JELLOS of Jim's material situation, but why or how could anyone be envious of another person's subjective state of consciousness? Go figure. / */turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened./* ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! */I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was:/* */ /* *Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state.* */ /* */I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. /* */ /* */But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-)/* */ /* */The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. /* */ /* */Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-)/* */ /* */Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism. /* */ /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
On 11/20/2014 9:35 AM, fleetwood_macncheese wrote: No one is just spouting empty words, except you, and the one in the dog house. I made the point a few weeks ago, when responding to Curtis, that Enlightenment means success in the world, with family, friends, career, finances, and general accomplishment of desires. Enlightenment by itself means nothing to a householder. Pure awareness, accompanying waking, sleeping, and dreaming, brings success. I find it hilarious when I say this, and the three of you clam up, like, wellclams. /It's understandable that others might be JELLOS of your material situation, Jim, but most normal people don't display such emotions in public. Years ago I stated that we are all enlightened at birth - all we have to do is realize our own birthright. //There's really nothing anyone can DO to get into the enlightened state - we are all born with it, but we lose it very early on due to karmic circumstances. All an individual can really do is try to provide for themselves the ideal opportunity for the realization to dawn. //Rita and I worked hard all our life to get where we are, to be able to retire with a few bucks in the bank and enjoy life. All our children are grown up now, so we feel we've done what had to be done. All along we've done the Work as householders, but w//e know that we are only going to get as much enlightenment as we are going to get. It's way too late for us to complain that others have more than we do. We believe in Life - what it does to you and what you do back. / ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : So Buck as long as someone talks the talk, you just take him at his word? Shit, I screwed up - I should have claimed the same blabber when I first got on FFL, claimed enlightenment and done a Meet the Enlightened Guy Tour in Fairfield and cleaned all your wallets out. Lesson learned.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Hi, Just to tweak your story a bit, I wasn't born enlightened. I barely made it out alive, and it was awhile before I could breathe by myself (a couple of months, at least). I like life infinitely better, now. Enlightenment is not a static state, either, as you seem to imply. Just as there are techniques to increase our skill in any area of life, so it is with enlightenment, also - Unbounded awareness is not just a catch phrase. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/20/2014 9:35 AM, fleetwood_macncheese wrote: No one is just spouting empty words, except you, and the one in the dog house. I made the point a few weeks ago, when responding to Curtis, that Enlightenment means success in the world, with family, friends, career, finances, and general accomplishment of desires. Enlightenment by itself means nothing to a householder. Pure awareness, accompanying waking, sleeping, and dreaming, brings success. I find it hilarious when I say this, and the three of you clam up, like, wellclams. It's understandable that others might be JELLOS of your material situation, Jim, but most normal people don't display such emotions in public. Years ago I stated that we are all enlightened at birth - all we have to do is realize our own birthright. There's really nothing anyone can DO to get into the enlightened state - we are all born with it, but we lose it very early on due to karmic circumstances. All an individual can really do is try to provide for themselves the ideal opportunity for the realization to dawn. Rita and I worked hard all our life to get where we are, to be able to retire with a few bucks in the bank and enjoy life. All our children are grown up now, so we feel we've done what had to be done. All along we've done the Work as householders, but we know that we are only going to get as much enlightenment as we are going to get. It's way too late for us to complain that others have more than we do. We believe in Life - what it does to you and what you do back. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : So Buck as long as someone talks the talk, you just take him at his word? Shit, I screwed up - I should have claimed the same blabber when I first got on FFL, claimed enlightenment and done a Meet the Enlightened Guy Tour in Fairfield and cleaned all your wallets out. Lesson learned.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
On 11/20/2014 9:17 AM, fleetwood_macncheese wrote: Dear Turq's secretary, please forward the following response (and his choice of puppy chow), to our common acquaintance: So, the bottom line is that being in an enlightened state is a subjective state that defies any material proof. Having said that, someone, anyone, please explain to me what Barry meant when he posted this message below, because now I'm getting confused and you don't want to confuse the willytex. /I cannot expect anyone else to believe that these experiences had anything to do with enlightenment. And I don't. Also, I might interpret the experiences in my own way, but that doesn't mean that anyone else hearing them can't, and won't, interpret them differently. That they do so doesn't mean that they're attacking me, merely that they see things a different way, from another point of view. - /TurquoiseB http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg96217.html Buck is not envious of me, nor is anyone else on this forum, except YOU. :-) :-) :-) The question (for you) is, WHY? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : */Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. /* */ /* */Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-)/* *From:* dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 3:01 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment **I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck** *//* */*/ /*/* */turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened./* ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! */I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was:/* */ /* *Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state.* */ /* */I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. /* */ /* */But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-)/* */ /* */The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. /* */ /* */Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-)/* */ /* */Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism. /* */ /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
On 11/20/2014 10:32 AM, fleetwood_macncheese wrote: Hi, Just to tweak your story a bit, I wasn't born enlightened. I barely made it out alive, and it was awhile before I could breathe by myself (a couple of months, at least). /The important thing is that you awakened from your slumber - that's what a Buddha does. / I like life infinitely better, now. Yogis enjoy - ascetics suffer. Enlightenment is not a static state, either, as you seem to imply. /You're just trying to confuse us now, Jim - everyone knows that the Absolute is a static state - it's the relative gunas that move around, change and react to the other gunas./ /Two birds sat on a tree; one ate the fruit, the other looked on. - Upanishads/ Just as there are techniques to increase our skill in any area of life, so it is with enlightenment, /That's called skill-in-action - grounded in Being, then act. / also - Unbounded awareness is not just a catch phrase. /SBS said that Brahman is the already existent Light - it needs no other light for illumination. //According to Maharishi, TM meditation is NOT the cause of enlightenment - it merely provides the ideal opportunity for transcending./ ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/20/2014 9:35 AM, fleetwood_macncheese wrote: No one is just spouting empty words, except you, and the one in the dog house. I made the point a few weeks ago, when responding to Curtis, that Enlightenment means success in the world, with family, friends, career, finances, and general accomplishment of desires. Enlightenment by itself means nothing to a householder. Pure awareness, accompanying waking, sleeping, and dreaming, brings success. I find it hilarious when I say this, and the three of you clam up, like, wellclams. /It's understandable that others might be JELLOS of your material situation, Jim, but most normal people don't display such emotions in public. Years ago I stated that we are all enlightened at birth - all we have to do is realize our own birthright. //There's really nothing anyone can DO to get into the enlightened state - we are all born with it, but we lose it very early on due to karmic circumstances. All an individual can really do is try to provide for themselves the ideal opportunity for the realization to dawn. // //Rita and I worked hard all our life to get where we are, to be able to retire with a few bucks in the bank and enjoy life. All our children are grown up now, so we feel we've done what had to be done. All along we've done the Work as householders, but w//e know that we are only going to get as much enlightenment as we are going to get. It's way too late for us to complain that others have more than we do. We believe in Life - what it does to you and what you do back. / ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : So Buck as long as someone talks the talk, you just take him at his word? Shit, I screwed up - I should have claimed the same blabber when I first got on FFL, claimed enlightenment and done a Meet the Enlightened Guy Tour in Fairfield and cleaned all your wallets out. Lesson learned.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
On 11/20/2014 8:57 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: So Buck as long as someone talks the talk, you just take him at his word? /So, we are taking your word that you took a bus up to IA in the dead of winter, to live in a small pod, and that you learned on the job how to set tables in the campus cafeteria. You do kind of talk the talk, like a bus-boy. / Shit, I screwed up - I should have claimed the same blabber when I first got on FFL, claimed enlightenment and done a Meet the Enlightened Guy Tour in Fairfield /You could have been anything when you first got on FFL, but you chose to act like a washed up, old red-neck bigot. Go figure./ and cleaned all your wallets out. Lesson learned. /In your home computer repair business, is there a difference - if it ain't broke, fix it?/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Uh, Michael, remember, you did talk in detail about your enlightenment, and all the great experiences you had practicing the technique until you remembered, hey, I'm supposed to be Mr. Negative about TM, oops That was kinda cute when you did that. We got to witness the Great Retraction, which took about three days, and ten pages. Can we get treated to that again? Pretty please? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : So Buck as long as someone talks the talk, you just take him at his word? Shit, I screwed up - I should have claimed the same blabber when I first got on FFL, claimed enlightenment and done a Meet the Enlightened Guy Tour in Fairfield and cleaned all your wallets out. Lesson learned. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Fine. If that's how low your standards are, then *you* can be envious of him. Since I've met canines who were more enlightened than Jim Flanegin, I'll pass, thanks. :-) :-) :-) From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 3:01 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment I know he is enlightened because of his first person accounts. I can relate to what he is talking about by experience. He is very clear and accurate in his writings. You seem threatened by his writing. -Buck turquoiseb writes: The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That's pretty funny, Share. I imagine the exchange went something like this. Barry's FFL Secretary: Sir, I think you should see this. BW: What is it! Can't you see I'm busy updating my list of things I don't like, people I find stupid, and, of course, things I can berate believers about. BS: But sir, I think.. BW: Okay, what is it already! BS: Sir, it 's from Flannegan. he says, sir, that, .that, you're envious of his enlightenment. BW: What! Why didn't you tell me this before! What am I paying you for? Let me exit out of this list, page 4 and address this. And keep me informed of any other developments along these lines. I have a reputation to uphold! BS: Yes sir. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear FFL Person who has become turq's secretary...REALLY?! From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] There IS someone on FFL dumber than JohnR !!! I have to thank the person who just forwarded a quote from Jimbo The Faux Enlightened to me, cuz otherwise I wouldn't have seen it and laughed this hard. The quote was: Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. I really LOVE this, because it actually tops JohnR's ludicrous and clueless, Atheists are really angry at God quote. That one was laughable because he managed to convince himself that people who don't believe in a God are really angry at the being they don't believe exists. I foolishly thought that nothing could *possibly* be more stupid than that. But now comes Jimbo's quote, putting JohnR's in the shade. :-) The person WHO CANNOT PRODUCE A *SINGLE PERSON* WHO BELIEVES HE IS ENLIGHTENED somehow wants you to believe that I am *envious* of him for being enlightened. Did these people spend their time in meditation sniffing glue? What *happened* to their brains to make them this dense? I've honestly met more intelligent turnips. :-) :-) :-) Free clue, Mr. Enlightened Trailer Trash -- NO ONE believes you are enlightened. Thus NO ONE is in any way envious of your enlightened state. You're just demonstrating the extent of your narcissism.
[FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT TRUTHS
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT TRUTHS
Like. On 6/9/2014 12:32 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I would have at least skimmed the essay. I skimmed enough of it to know that I didn't want to waste a sunny day in the Netherlands reading it. It was just more intellectualizing about a subject that can't be intellectualized, or as I put it below, spiritual porn. Better to enjoy the day, IMO, so I did. But I see this morning that a few people here had nothing more interesting going on in their lives yesterday than me. As I've suggested many times about my role on this forum, I discuss ideas, the ideas piss them off, and they discuss me. It's tough providing starter ideas for people who aren't smart enough to come up with their own, but hey...I guess somebody's gotta do it... :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus. But then, I tend to believe that talking about enlightenment is a lot like watching porn and believing that you're having sex. My bad. I suppose talking about enlightenment is best for those who have a natural inclination to tell people about it, and a situation arises that supports that inclination. For a while I wanted to talk about it, mainly to clarify what was going on intellectually in my head, but that tendency seems to be fading. Most of the talk on FFL is not about enlightenment but about the people who have intersected with that idea and became fucked up. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Thanks for posting this, Anartaxius. I have successfully downloaded the attachment, and will try to read it later today or later this weekend, when I have time to do so, and will comment if I feel I have comments to make. For now, I will say that I agree with his list of myths about enlightenment, and agree with the basic principle that they ARE myths. I do NOT hold that what people have called enlightenment does not exist. I believe it does, but that it is a purely subjective experience that 1) defies description, 2) defies categorization or hierarchization, 3) is no better or higher than any other experience, and 4) may not be duplicatible. By #4 I mean that it is possible IMO that every person who experiences the subjective experience that they call enlightenment is experiencing a *different* experience or set of experiences. They may have some similarities with what others claim to experience and call enlightenment, but essentially they'll all be different, even though the claimants CLAIM that they're all the same. If I feel like commenting more after reading the essay, I will. If not, the above can stand as my take on enlightenment. I think it's an OK experience, as experiences go, but no more important or special than any other experience. The attempt to claim otherwise is IMO *always* an attempt to sell somebody something -- whether that something be a technique or membership in some supposedly special or elite lineage or group. From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] included below] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Some days ago emptybill posted (Lightmint vs EEG Claptrap) a quote by James Swartz. After poking around for a while I found this fellow's web site. Just after I came on FFL in 2011, yuxifero also responded to a post I had made with a link to his site. Swartz had written a book called 'How to Attain Enlightenment'. I do not think I followed up on that. But I did find a sample chapter from that book a few days ago titled 'What is Enlightenment'. This was really interesting as it is an attempt to explain enlightenment from the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta. Of special interest to me was a series of discussions he called 'enlightenment myths'. I have attached that sample chapter to this post but would like to make brief mention of the discussions in it. It is divided into several sections, but most interest were the sub headings of the enlightenment myths. As you read these you might notice that these myths cover just about everything we find in the TM scheme, and in many other traditions as well. Swartz has a very sharp intellect and handles most of his discussion well, and takes apart these ideas one by one. Reminds me of Curtis, (and even Robin, were he not off the deep end - this is now Robin might sound if he knew what he was talking about, and was not trying to exorcise everybody, and trying
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
From: authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I consider Xeno's views of both Barry and Robin to be so biased--one pro, the other con--as to be twisted. It did take a bit of effort to read some of Robin's posts, but they weren't obfuscatory or intended to entrap, nor was he putting on airs. She says, writing in such a way as to infer that she know the 'truth' about Robin, and no one else does. See what I mean about how NPD attracts NPD? :-) (That's the twisted part.) I think Xeno had problems similar to Barry's in reading Robin's posts, and this made him feel inadequate and resentful as well.How Xeno can see anything less than the purest hatred in Barry's obsessive comments about Robin, I can't imagine. But then Xeno has been angling for strokes from Barry for quite some time now. Sounds to me as if Judy is a little resentful because Xeno and Share don't hate someone she's *told* them repeatedly that they should hate. How dare they? :-) What I find interesting about *Judy's* ongoing obsession with Robin is how she manages to drool over and defend a guy who on the one hand infers that the claim that he was once enlightened is a Really Big Deal (to the point of feeling that he has to actively confront anyone who denies this), and on the other hand infers that he's a Really Big Deal because he *quit* that shit, cold turkey. You would think that someone who claims to be an editor would notice the NPD tendency to insist on being a Really Big Deal, both past and present. Maybe it's that she actually believes he actually was/is one. Who knows? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I would say Barry disliked Robin. Obsessive hatred seems a little extreme. Barry doesn't like long sprawling tracts of text, Robin's speciality, and he seems to have a very short fuse with people who think of themselves excessively or put on airs. I did not care for Robin's writing style either. I consider Robin's writing obfuscatory rather than illuminating. He was not out to explain, I think he used his skills to entrap rather than to free. He has a shorter attention span than I do. But much longer than a gnat. He does write some long posts, and they usually stay on topic, even if those who read them do not like what he says. I do not always like what he says, but that is my reaction to certain things. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Barry appears to have the attention span of a gnat. I suspect that may be why he developed such an obsessive hatred of Robin. Here were others reading Robin's posts with interest and understanding, and Barry couldn't get past the first few lines. Made him feel inadequate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
I really don't understand this ongoing interest with Robin, that you have. I thought he had the ability, here on FFL, more than most, to put the active turnings of his mind, on paper, with the movement intact. I was fascinated by it, at first, and he is clearly a brilliant guy. I saw him as a spiritual performance artist, more than anything else, and that's it - no big deal, either way. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I consider Xeno's views of both Barry and Robin to be so biased--one pro, the other con--as to be twisted. It did take a bit of effort to read some of Robin's posts, but they weren't obfuscatory or intended to entrap, nor was he putting on airs. She says, writing in such a way as to infer that she know the 'truth' about Robin, and no one else does. See what I mean about how NPD attracts NPD? :-) (That's the twisted part.) I think Xeno had problems similar to Barry's in reading Robin's posts, and this made him feel inadequate and resentful as well. How Xeno can see anything less than the purest hatred in Barry's obsessive comments about Robin, I can't imagine. But then Xeno has been angling for strokes from Barry for quite some time now. Sounds to me as if Judy is a little resentful because Xeno and Share don't hate someone she's *told* them repeatedly that they should hate. How dare they? :-) What I find interesting about *Judy's* ongoing obsession with Robin is how she manages to drool over and defend a guy who on the one hand infers that the claim that he was once enlightened is a Really Big Deal (to the point of feeling that he has to actively confront anyone who denies this), and on the other hand infers that he's a Really Big Deal because he *quit* that shit, cold turkey. You would think that someone who claims to be an editor would notice the NPD tendency to insist on being a Really Big Deal, both past and present. Maybe it's that she actually believes he actually was/is one. Who knows? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I would say Barry disliked Robin. Obsessive hatred seems a little extreme. Barry doesn't like long sprawling tracts of text, Robin's speciality, and he seems to have a very short fuse with people who think of themselves excessively or put on airs. I did not care for Robin's writing style either. I consider Robin's writing obfuscatory rather than illuminating. He was not out to explain, I think he used his skills to entrap rather than to free. He has a shorter attention span than I do. But much longer than a gnat. He does write some long posts, and they usually stay on topic, even if those who read them do not like what he says. I do not always like what he says, but that is my reaction to certain things. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Barry appears to have the attention span of a gnat. I suspect that may be why he developed such an obsessive hatred of Robin. Here were others reading Robin's posts with interest and understanding, and Barry couldn't get past the first few lines. Made him feel inadequate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
What's your problem, Barry? I'm simply stating my opinions (albeit not necessarily those you impute to me). (BTW, you need to look up the distinction between infer and imply. In this post, you are the one doing the inferring. Check it out.) Given the huge number of words Barry has written about Robin, while he was here and after he left, right up to the present, I think we can (ahem) infer that for Barry, Robin was a Really Big Deal. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I consider Xeno's views of both Barry and Robin to be so biased--one pro, the other con--as to be twisted. It did take a bit of effort to read some of Robin's posts, but they weren't obfuscatory or intended to entrap, nor was he putting on airs. She says, writing in such a way as to infer that she know the 'truth' about Robin, and no one else does. See what I mean about how NPD attracts NPD? :-) (That's the twisted part.) I think Xeno had problems similar to Barry's in reading Robin's posts, and this made him feel inadequate and resentful as well. How Xeno can see anything less than the purest hatred in Barry's obsessive comments about Robin, I can't imagine. But then Xeno has been angling for strokes from Barry for quite some time now. Sounds to me as if Judy is a little resentful because Xeno and Share don't hate someone she's *told* them repeatedly that they should hate. How dare they? :-) What I find interesting about *Judy's* ongoing obsession with Robin is how she manages to drool over and defend a guy who on the one hand infers that the claim that he was once enlightened is a Really Big Deal (to the point of feeling that he has to actively confront anyone who denies this), and on the other hand infers that he's a Really Big Deal because he *quit* that shit, cold turkey. You would think that someone who claims to be an editor would notice the NPD tendency to insist on being a Really Big Deal, both past and present. Maybe it's that she actually believes he actually was/is one. Who knows? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I would say Barry disliked Robin. Obsessive hatred seems a little extreme. Barry doesn't like long sprawling tracts of text, Robin's speciality, and he seems to have a very short fuse with people who think of themselves excessively or put on airs. I did not care for Robin's writing style either. I consider Robin's writing obfuscatory rather than illuminating. He was not out to explain, I think he used his skills to entrap rather than to free. He has a shorter attention span than I do. But much longer than a gnat. He does write some long posts, and they usually stay on topic, even if those who read them do not like what he says. I do not always like what he says, but that is my reaction to certain things. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Barry appears to have the attention span of a gnat. I suspect that may be why he developed such an obsessive hatred of Robin. Here were others reading Robin's posts with interest and understanding, and Barry couldn't get past the first few lines. Made him feel inadequate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
On 6/8/2014 5:06 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sounds to me as if Judy is a little resentful because Xeno and Share don't hate someone she's *told* them repeatedly that they should hate. How dare they? :-) So, it's all about Judy. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
Thanks for posting this, Anartaxius. I have successfully downloaded the attachment, and will try to read it later today or later this weekend, when I have time to do so, and will comment if I feel I have comments to make. For now, I will say that I agree with his list of myths about enlightenment, and agree with the basic principle that they ARE myths. I do NOT hold that what people have called enlightenment does not exist. I believe it does, but that it is a purely subjective experience that 1) defies description, 2) defies categorization or hierarchization, 3) is no better or higher than any other experience, and 4) may not be duplicatible. By #4 I mean that it is possible IMO that every person who experiences the subjective experience that they call enlightenment is experiencing a *different* experience or set of experiences. They may have some similarities with what others claim to experience and call enlightenment, but essentially they'll all be different, even though the claimants CLAIM that they're all the same. If I feel like commenting more after reading the essay, I will. If not, the above can stand as my take on enlightenment. I think it's an OK experience, as experiences go, but no more important or special than any other experience. The attempt to claim otherwise is IMO *always* an attempt to sell somebody something -- whether that something be a technique or membership in some supposedly special or elite lineage or group. From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] included below] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Some days ago emptybill posted (Lightmint vs EEG Claptrap) a quote by James Swartz. After poking around for a while I found this fellow's web site. Just after I came on FFL in 2011, yuxifero also responded to a post I had made with a link to his site. Swartz had written a book called 'How to Attain Enlightenment'. I do not think I followed up on that. But I did find a sample chapter from that book a few days ago titled 'What is Enlightenment'. This was really interesting as it is an attempt to explain enlightenment from the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta. Of special interest to me was a series of discussions he called 'enlightenment myths'. I have attached that sample chapter to this post but would like to make brief mention of the discussions in it. It is divided into several sections, but most interest were the sub headings of the enlightenment myths. As you read these you might notice that these myths cover just about everything we find in the TM scheme, and in many other traditions as well. Swartz has a very sharp intellect and handles most of his discussion well, and takes apart these ideas one by one. Reminds me of Curtis, (and even Robin, were he not off the deep end - this is now Robin might sound if he knew what he was talking about, and was not trying to exorcise everybody, and trying to convince us he was also at one time, enlightened, but not now). 1. The Path of Experience 2. The Path of Knowledge 3. The Value of a Means of Knowledge 4. Enlightenment Myths a. No Mind, Blank Mind, Empty Mind, Stopped Mind b. No Ego, Ego Death c. Nirvana d. The Now e. Experience of Oneness f. Transcendental State g. Enlightenment as Eternal Bliss h. Levels of Enlightenment i. Enlightenment as Special Status j. Enlightenment as Energy k. Fulfillment of All Desires I think Barry might like this essay because it undermines the idea of enlightenment as giving anyone some special kind of something that makes them, well, holier than thou. Barry might disagree with the idea Swartz has about enlightenment being 'real'. I think this is as one of the finest essays on enlightenment I have ever read. Maharishi did talk of the path of experience and the path of knowledge, but the path of knowledge seems to have gotten buried in the TMO in favour of the path of experience, and especially devotion to guru as time went on. Swartz basically says the path of experience (meditation etc.) helps clear the way for enlightenment, but does not in fact result in it. At any rate I find this essay a refreshing counter to the TMO's increasing descent into endarkenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus. But then, I tend to believe that talking about enlightenment is a lot like watching porn and believing that you're having sex. My bad. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Thanks for posting this, Anartaxius. I have successfully downloaded the attachment, and will try to read it later today or later this weekend, when I have time to do so, and will comment if I feel I have comments to make. For now, I will say that I agree with his list of myths about enlightenment, and agree with the basic principle that they ARE myths. I do NOT hold that what people have called enlightenment does not exist. I believe it does, but that it is a purely subjective experience that 1) defies description, 2) defies categorization or hierarchization, 3) is no better or higher than any other experience, and 4) may not be duplicatible. By #4 I mean that it is possible IMO that every person who experiences the subjective experience that they call enlightenment is experiencing a *different* experience or set of experiences. They may have some similarities with what others claim to experience and call enlightenment, but essentially they'll all be different, even though the claimants CLAIM that they're all the same. If I feel like commenting more after reading the essay, I will. If not, the above can stand as my take on enlightenment. I think it's an OK experience, as experiences go, but no more important or special than any other experience. The attempt to claim otherwise is IMO *always* an attempt to sell somebody something -- whether that something be a technique or membership in some supposedly special or elite lineage or group. From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] included below] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Some days ago emptybill posted (Lightmint vs EEG Claptrap) a quote by James Swartz. After poking around for a while I found this fellow's web site. Just after I came on FFL in 2011, yuxifero also responded to a post I had made with a link to his site. Swartz had written a book called 'How to Attain Enlightenment'. I do not think I followed up on that. But I did find a sample chapter from that book a few days ago titled 'What is Enlightenment'. This was really interesting as it is an attempt to explain enlightenment from the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta. Of special interest to me was a series of discussions he called 'enlightenment myths'. I have attached that sample chapter to this post but would like to make brief mention of the discussions in it. It is divided into several sections, but most interest were the sub headings of the enlightenment myths. As you read these you might notice that these myths cover just about everything we find in the TM scheme, and in many other traditions as well. Swartz has a very sharp intellect and handles most of his discussion well, and takes apart these ideas one by one. Reminds me of Curtis, (and even Robin, were he not off the deep end - this is now Robin might sound if he knew what he was talking about, and was not trying to exorcise everybody, and trying to convince us he was also at one time, enlightened, but not now). 1. The Path of Experience 2. The Path of Knowledge 3. The Value of a Means of Knowledge 4. Enlightenment Myths a. No Mind, Blank Mind, Empty Mind, Stopped Mind b. No Ego, Ego Death c. Nirvana d. The Now e. Experience of Oneness f. Transcendental State g. Enlightenment as Eternal Bliss h. Levels of Enlightenment i. Enlightenment as Special Status j. Enlightenment as Energy k. Fulfillment of All Desires I think Barry might like this essay because it undermines the idea of enlightenment as giving anyone some special kind of something that makes them, well, holier than thou. Barry might disagree with the idea Swartz has about enlightenment being 'real'. I think this is as one of the finest essays on enlightenment I have ever read. Maharishi did talk of the path of experience and the path of knowledge, but the path of knowledge seems to have gotten buried in the TMO in favour of the path of experience, and especially devotion to guru as time went on. Swartz basically says the path of experience (meditation etc.) helps clear the way for enlightenment, but does not in fact result in it. At any rate I find this essay
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
Watch a lot of porn, do you, Barry? Real sex, like real enlightenment, is much preferred. Please, take my word for it.:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus. But then, I tend to believe that talking about enlightenment is a lot like watching porn and believing that you're having sex. My bad. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Thanks for posting this, Anartaxius. I have successfully downloaded the attachment, and will try to read it later today or later this weekend, when I have time to do so, and will comment if I feel I have comments to make. For now, I will say that I agree with his list of myths about enlightenment, and agree with the basic principle that they ARE myths. I do NOT hold that what people have called enlightenment does not exist. I believe it does, but that it is a purely subjective experience that 1) defies description, 2) defies categorization or hierarchization, 3) is no better or higher than any other experience, and 4) may not be duplicatible. By #4 I mean that it is possible IMO that every person who experiences the subjective experience that they call enlightenment is experiencing a *different* experience or set of experiences. They may have some similarities with what others claim to experience and call enlightenment, but essentially they'll all be different, even though the claimants CLAIM that they're all the same. If I feel like commenting more after reading the essay, I will. If not, the above can stand as my take on enlightenment. I think it's an OK experience, as experiences go, but no more important or special than any other experience. The attempt to claim otherwise is IMO *always* an attempt to sell somebody something -- whether that something be a technique or membership in some supposedly special or elite lineage or group. From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=0b8m3ft1a6o9h#TopText from anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] included below] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Some days ago emptybill posted (Lightmint vs EEG Claptrap) a quote by James Swartz. After poking around for a while I found this fellow's web site. Just after I came on FFL in 2011, yuxifero also responded to a post I had made with a link to his site. Swartz had written a book called 'How to Attain Enlightenment'. I do not think I followed up on that. But I did find a sample chapter from that book a few days ago titled 'What is Enlightenment'. This was really interesting as it is an attempt to explain enlightenment from the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta. Of special interest to me was a series of discussions he called 'enlightenment myths'. I have attached that sample chapter to this post but would like to make brief mention of the discussions in it. It is divided into several sections, but most interest were the sub headings of the enlightenment myths. As you read these you might notice that these myths cover just about everything we find in the TM scheme, and in many other traditions as well. Swartz has a very sharp intellect and handles most of his discussion well, and takes apart these ideas one by one. Reminds me of Curtis, (and even Robin, were he not off the deep end - this is now Robin might sound if he knew what he was talking about, and was not trying to exorcise everybody, and trying to convince us he was also at one time, enlightened, but not now). 1. The Path of Experience 2. The Path of Knowledge 3. The Value of a Means of Knowledge 4. Enlightenment Myths a. No Mind, Blank Mind, Empty Mind, Stopped Mind b. No Ego, Ego Death c. Nirvana d. The Now e. Experience of Oneness f. Transcendental State g. Enlightenment as Eternal Bliss h. Levels of Enlightenment i. Enlightenment as Special Status j. Enlightenment as Energy k. Fulfillment of All Desires I think Barry might like this essay because it undermines the idea of enlightenment as giving anyone some special kind of something that makes them, well, holier than thou. Barry might disagree with the idea Swartz has about enlightenment being 'real'. I think this is as one of the finest essays on enlightenment I have ever read. Maharishi did talk of the path of experience and the path of knowledge, but the path of knowledge seems to have gotten buried in the TMO in favour of the path
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
I would have at least skimmed the essay. Peter Schaffer's screenplay (based on his stage version) of Amadeus portrays Emperor Joseph II, who spoke the words 'too many notes', as somewhat of a dilettante as far as music, in fact he could not come up with those words, having been prompted by one of his lackeys. Mozart did write a lot of notes, though no denser than his contemporaries, but played more when he played the piano, improvising, especially in repeated passages, elaborating the musical line. He wrote out examples of this for his students, showing them how to vary what was on the written page to make a performance more interesting. Well, I like Mozart. You like Bruce Cockburn (too few notes, but very nice). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus. But then, I tend to believe that talking about enlightenment is a lot like watching porn and believing that you're having sex. My bad. I suppose talking about enlightenment is best for those who have a natural inclination to tell people about it, and a situation arises that supports that inclination. For a while I wanted to talk about it, mainly to clarify what was going on intellectually in my head, but that tendency seems to be fading. Most of the talk on FFL is not about enlightenment but about the people who have intersected with that idea and became fucked up. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Thanks for posting this, Anartaxius. I have successfully downloaded the attachment, and will try to read it later today or later this weekend, when I have time to do so, and will comment if I feel I have comments to make. For now, I will say that I agree with his list of myths about enlightenment, and agree with the basic principle that they ARE myths. I do NOT hold that what people have called enlightenment does not exist. I believe it does, but that it is a purely subjective experience that 1) defies description, 2) defies categorization or hierarchization, 3) is no better or higher than any other experience, and 4) may not be duplicatible. By #4 I mean that it is possible IMO that every person who experiences the subjective experience that they call enlightenment is experiencing a *different* experience or set of experiences. They may have some similarities with what others claim to experience and call enlightenment, but essentially they'll all be different, even though the claimants CLAIM that they're all the same. If I feel like commenting more after reading the essay, I will. If not, the above can stand as my take on enlightenment. I think it's an OK experience, as experiences go, but no more important or special than any other experience. The attempt to claim otherwise is IMO *always* an attempt to sell somebody something -- whether that something be a technique or membership in some supposedly special or elite lineage or group. From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 10:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=0b8m3ft1a6o9h#TopText from anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] included below] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Some days ago emptybill posted (Lightmint vs EEG Claptrap) a quote by James Swartz. After poking around for a while I found this fellow's web site. Just after I came on FFL in 2011, yuxifero also responded to a post I had made with a link to his site. Swartz had written a book called 'How to Attain Enlightenment'. I do not think I followed up on that. But I did find a sample chapter from that book a few days ago titled 'What is Enlightenment'. This was really interesting as it is an attempt to explain enlightenment from the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta. Of special interest to me was a series of discussions he called 'enlightenment myths'. I have attached that sample chapter to this post but would like to make brief mention of the discussions in it. It is divided into several sections, but most interest were the sub headings of the enlightenment myths. As you read these you might notice that these myths cover just about everything we find in the TM scheme, and in many other traditions as well. Swartz has a very sharp intellect and handles most of his discussion well, and takes apart these ideas one by one. Reminds me of Curtis, (and even Robin, were he not off the deep end - this is now Robin might sound if he knew what he was talking about, and was not trying to exorcise everybody, and trying to convince
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
Barry appears to have the attention span of a gnat. I suspect that may be why he developed such an obsessive hatred of Robin. Here were others reading Robin's posts with interest and understanding, and Barry couldn't get past the first few lines. Made him feel inadequate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
I would say Barry disliked Robin. Obsessive hatred seems a little extreme. Barry doesn't like long sprawling tracts of text, Robin's speciality, and he seems to have a very short fuse with people who think of themselves excessively or put on airs. I did not care for Robin's writing style either. I consider Robin's writing obfuscatory rather than illuminating. He was not out to explain, I think he used his skills to entrap rather than to free. He has a shorter attention span than I do. But much longer than a gnat. He does write some long posts, and they usually stay on topic, even if those who read them do not like what he says. I do not always like what he says, but that is my reaction to certain things. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Barry appears to have the attention span of a gnat. I suspect that may be why he developed such an obsessive hatred of Robin. Here were others reading Robin's posts with interest and understanding, and Barry couldn't get past the first few lines. Made him feel inadequate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS
I consider Xeno's views of both Barry and Robin to be so biased--one pro, the other con--as to be twisted. It did take a bit of effort to read some of Robin's posts, but they weren't obfuscatory or intended to entrap, nor was he putting on airs. (That's the twisted part.) I think Xeno had problems similar to Barry's in reading Robin's posts, and this made him feel inadequate and resentful as well. How Xeno can see anything less than the purest hatred in Barry's obsessive comments about Robin, I can't imagine. But then Xeno has been angling for strokes from Barry for quite some time now. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I would say Barry disliked Robin. Obsessive hatred seems a little extreme. Barry doesn't like long sprawling tracts of text, Robin's speciality, and he seems to have a very short fuse with people who think of themselves excessively or put on airs. I did not care for Robin's writing style either. I consider Robin's writing obfuscatory rather than illuminating. He was not out to explain, I think he used his skills to entrap rather than to free. He has a shorter attention span than I do. But much longer than a gnat. He does write some long posts, and they usually stay on topic, even if those who read them do not like what he says. I do not always like what he says, but that is my reaction to certain things. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Barry appears to have the attention span of a gnat. I suspect that may be why he developed such an obsessive hatred of Robin. Here were others reading Robin's posts with interest and understanding, and Barry couldn't get past the first few lines. Made him feel inadequate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : As a followup, although I recognize that it is well and clearly written, I couldn't make my way through it. Too many notes, to quote the film Amadeus.
[FairfieldLife] ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS [1 Attachment]
ENLIGHTENMENT MYTHS Some days ago emptybill posted (Lightmint vs EEG Claptrap) a quote by James Swartz. After poking around for a while I found this fellow's web site. Just after I came on FFL in 2011, yuxifero also responded to a post I had made with a link to his site. Swartz had written a book called 'How to Attain Enlightenment'. I do not think I followed up on that. But I did find a sample chapter from that book a few days ago titled 'What is Enlightenment'. This was really interesting as it is an attempt to explain enlightenment from the viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta. Of special interest to me was a series of discussions he called 'enlightenment myths'. I have attached that sample chapter to this post but would like to make brief mention of the discussions in it. It is divided into several sections, but most interest were the sub headings of the enlightenment myths. As you read these you might notice that these myths cover just about everything we find in the TM scheme, and in many other traditions as well. Swartz has a very sharp intellect and handles most of his discussion well, and takes apart these ideas one by one. Reminds me of Curtis, (and even Robin, were he not off the deep end - this is now Robin might sound if he knew what he was talking about, and was not trying to exorcise everybody, and trying to convince us he was also at one time, enlightened, but not now). 1. The Path of Experience 2. The Path of Knowledge 3. The Value of a Means of Knowledge 4. Enlightenment Myths a. No Mind, Blank Mind, Empty Mind, Stopped Mind b. No Ego, Ego Death c. Nirvana d. The Now e. Experience of Oneness f. Transcendental State g. Enlightenment as Eternal Bliss h. Levels of Enlightenment i. Enlightenment as Special Status j. Enlightenment as Energy k. Fulfillment of All Desires I think Barry might like this essay because it undermines the idea of enlightenment as giving anyone some special kind of something that makes them, well, holier than thou. Barry might disagree with the idea Swartz has about enlightenment being 'real'. I think this is as one of the finest essays on enlightenment I have ever read. Maharishi did talk of the path of experience and the path of knowledge, but the path of knowledge seems to have gotten buried in the TMO in favour of the path of experience, and especially devotion to guru as time went on. Swartz basically says the path of experience (meditation etc.) helps clear the way for enlightenment, but does not in fact result in it. At any rate I find this essay a refreshing counter to the TMO's increasing descent into endarkenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
Richard, just to set the record straight, I didn't write that sentence about enlightenment. Judy did. On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:22 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 2/11/2014 10:35 AM, Share Long wrote: It imposes a delusionary experience of oneself, of the world, and of one's relationship to God. In the Advaita Vedanta which Robin practiced it is the ego that is the delusion, but this delusion was not caused by God, but by Maya through prakriti and the gunas born of nature. When the ego is subsumed there is a lifting of the veil, an awakening from the dream of illusion. This follows the typology of the seven states of consciousness purported by MMY. So, it may have been difficult at times for Robin to adopt the theistic view after having immersed himself in non-theistic non-dualism. According to Robin, at the time of his enlightenment he experienced all these boundaries of perception dissolving.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
Richard, again setting the record straight: I did not write that sentence about enlightenment. Judy did. On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:13 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 2/11/2014 10:35 AM, Share Long wrote: Enlightenment reached by Eastern systems is, according to Robin, the real, genuine state of enlightenment. All religious systems seem to come from the East, except Mormonism, which seems to have sprung from the mind of Moroni. But, the enlightenment tradition in India was founded by the historical Buddha. The notion of enlightenment in Yoga seems to be restricted to South Asia. According to Mircea Eliade, the Ascetic methods and techniques of ecstasy are documented among the other Indo-European peoples, to say nothing of the other peoples of Asia, whereas Yoga is to be found only in India and in cultures influenced by Indian spirituality. Reference: 'Myths and Symbols in India Art and Civilization' by Heinrich Zimmer Edited by Joseph Campbell Bolingen Series, Princeton U.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
On 2/12/2014 7:00 AM, Share Long wrote: Richard, again setting the record straight: I did not write that sentence about enlightenment. Judy did. All that matters in discussing Robin's enlightenment is what Robin said about his own experience: And then I as if woke up. The spell was broken. I knew myself to have always existed. All my suffering, all my strivings, time, space, personal history was but a dream. There had never been anything but the light of consciousness. I had never been born nor would I ever die. - Robin Carlsen
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
On 2/12/2014 6:58 AM, Share Long wrote: Richard, just to set the record straight, I didn't write that sentence about enlightenment. Judy did. That's what I'm talking about. Robin said: Something disappeared forever, and I later came to know what that was. Something continued to form the apparent boundaries of Robin but the ego that had previously had so much to say about my sensation and experience of the world was now the individuated expression of what was the unmanifest reality of God.
[FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
I think enlightenment, or a very, very high state of human development, and without delusion or possession, has occurred in Native Americans, shamans, tantrics, Taoists, Buddhists, Sufis, Christians, Jews and atheists. I think it included ontological union with what some people call God, but which I think could also be called life. I think it has occurred in people like Byron Katie and Eckhart Tolle who had no spiritual tradition at all. Finally I think it has occurred in some people who followed an Eastern tradition. I think it did not include delusion or possession. I think it lasted. I think it included ontological union with God or, for the atheists, life. Now for the scientists: I think if we wired such individuals up to an fMRI machine, I think we would find that 99% of their brain was functioning in a very, very healthy way. This is what I've been attempting to say these last few days. And yes, I recognize that it's been gripping me! Why? To honor the possibility and actuality of a very, very high state of human development.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
On 2/11/2014 9:32 AM, Share Long wrote: To honor the possibility and actuality of a very, very high state of human development. The state of enlightenment is like a waking up to reality. You wake up from a dream state or from a deluded state of consciousness. Robin's, experience of enlightenment consisted of a waking up to the insight that he had always existed and that all his suffering, all his striving, his time and space, and even his personal history was just a dream. In a flash, Robin realized that there had never been anything but the light of consciousness. Like Lord Krishna, Robin the person had never been born nor would he ever die. That is when Robin's ego disappeared forever and his soul individuated into an expression of the unmanifested God. At that moment, Robin had reached enlightenment, an awakening. According to MMY, Robin Carlsen was the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
Richard, what do you think these 2 sentences of Judy mean: Enlightenment reached by Eastern systems is, according to Robin, the real, genuine state of enlightenment. ...It imposes a delusionary experience of oneself, of the world, and of one's relationship to God. On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:25 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 2/11/2014 9:32 AM, Share Long wrote: To honor the possibility and actuality of a very, very high state of human development. The state of enlightenment is like a waking up to reality. You wake up from a dream state or from a deluded state of consciousness. Robin's, experience of enlightenment consisted of a waking up to the insight that he had always existed and that all his suffering, all his striving, his time and space, and even his personal history was just a dream. In a flash, Robin realized that there had never been anything but the light of consciousness. Like Lord Krishna, Robin the person had never been born nor would he ever die. That is when Robin's ego disappeared forever and his soul individuated into an expression of the unmanifested God. At that moment, Robin had reached enlightenment, an awakening. According to MMY, Robin Carlsen was the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Richard, what do you think these 2 sentences of Judy mean: Enlightenment reached by Eastern systems is, according to Robin, the real, genuine state of enlightenment. ...It imposes a delusionary experience of oneself, of the world, and of one's relationship to God. Am I the only one here who thinks arguing about enlightenment is a waste of time? Sometimes I think Share just does this to create problems. Like here for example, she knows exactly where this is going to lead. On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:25 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... wrote: On 2/11/2014 9:32 AM, Share Long wrote: To honor the possibility and actuality of a very, very high state of human development. The state of enlightenment is like a waking up to reality. You wake up from a dream state or from a deluded state of consciousness. Robin's, experience of enlightenment consisted of a waking up to the insight that he had always existed and that all his suffering, all his striving, his time and space, and even his personal history was just a dream. In a flash, Robin realized that there had never been anything but the light of consciousness. Like Lord Krishna, Robin the person had never been born nor would he ever die. That is when Robin's ego disappeared forever and his soul individuated into an expression of the unmanifested God. At that moment, Robin had reached enlightenment, an awakening. According to MMY, Robin Carlsen was the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
Share, Richard doesn't know from shit what they mean. He'll just blab whatever comes to mind. And I've already explained, umpty times now, what I mean by them, as has Ann. Pretty silly to ask someone else. Richard, what do you think these 2 sentences of Judy mean: Enlightenment reached by Eastern systems is, according to Robin, the real, genuine state of enlightenment. ...It imposes a delusionary experience of oneself, of the world, and of one's relationship to God. On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:25 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... wrote: On 2/11/2014 9:32 AM, Share Long wrote: To honor the possibility and actuality of a very, very high state of human development. The state of enlightenment is like a waking up to reality. You wake up from a dream state or from a deluded state of consciousness. Robin's, experience of enlightenment consisted of a waking up to the insight that he had always existed and that all his suffering, all his striving, his time and space, and even his personal history was just a dream. In a flash, Robin realized that there had never been anything but the light of consciousness. Like Lord Krishna, Robin the person had never been born nor would he ever die. That is when Robin's ego disappeared forever and his soul individuated into an expression of the unmanifested God. At that moment, Robin had reached enlightenment, an awakening. According to MMY, Robin Carlsen was the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
Judy, I was asking him to explain in the context of what he had written. And I found his dream analogy useful. On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:25 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Share, Richard doesn't know from shit what they mean. He'll just blab whatever comes to mind. And I've already explained, umpty times now, what I mean by them, as has Ann. Pretty silly to ask someone else. Richard, what do you think these 2 sentences of Judy mean: Enlightenment reached by Eastern systems is, according to Robin, the real, genuine state of enlightenment. ...It imposes a delusionary experience of oneself, of the world, and of one's relationship to God. On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:25 AM, Richard J. Williams punditster@... wrote: On 2/11/2014 9:32 AM, Share Long wrote: To honor the possibility and actuality of a very, very high state of human development. The state of enlightenment is like a waking up to reality. You wake up from a dream state or from a deluded state of consciousness. Robin's, experience of enlightenment consisted of a waking up to the insight that he had always existed and that all his suffering, all his striving, his time and space, and even his personal history was just a dream. In a flash, Robin realized that there had never been anything but the light of consciousness. Like Lord Krishna, Robin the person had never been born nor would he ever die. That is when Robin's ego disappeared forever and his soul individuated into an expression of the unmanifested God. At that moment, Robin had reached enlightenment, an awakening. According to MMY, Robin Carlsen was the first governor of the Age of Enlightenment.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
On 2/11/2014 10:35 AM, Share Long wrote: Enlightenment reached by Eastern systems is, according to Robin, the real, genuine state of enlightenment. All religious systems seem to come from the East, except Mormonism, which seems to have sprung from the mind of Moroni. But, the enlightenment tradition in India was founded by the historical Buddha. The notion of enlightenment in Yoga seems to be restricted to South Asia. According to Mircea Eliade, the Ascetic methods and techniques of ecstasy are documented among the other Indo-European peoples, to say nothing of the other peoples of Asia, whereas Yoga is to be found only in India and in cultures influenced by Indian spirituality. Reference: 'Myths and Symbols in India Art and Civilization' by Heinrich Zimmer Edited by Joseph Campbell Bolingen Series, Princeton U.
Re: [FairfieldLife] enlightenment has occurred
On 2/11/2014 10:35 AM, Share Long wrote: It imposes a delusionary experience of oneself, of the world, and of one's relationship to God. In the Advaita Vedanta which Robin practiced it is the ego that is the delusion, but this delusion was not caused by God, but by Maya through prakriti and the gunas born of nature. When the ego is subsumed there is a lifting of the veil, an awakening from the dream of illusion. This follows the typology of the seven states of consciousness purported by MMY. So, it may have been difficult at times for Robin to adopt the theistic view after having immersed himself in non-theistic non-dualism. According to Robin, at the time of his enlightenment he experienced all these boundaries of perception dissolving.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Ain't For Sissies: the computer game
Fascinating article: http://www.kernelmag.com/features/report/5889/the-rush-to-solve-grand-th\ eft-auto-vs-biggest-mystery/ http://www.kernelmag.com/features/report/5889/the-rush-to-solve-grand-t\ heft-auto-vs-biggest-mystery/ It's made me think that TB TMers who want to reach the maximum number of potential meditators with their message shouldn't be giving intro lectures; they should be busy writing computer games. EAFS could be a big hit. On the lower levels, as with any computer game, you just have to run around collecting tokens for a long time. You need the tokens to buy admittance to the residence courses and advanced teachings where the real action is. What entices you to go through all of this are the glowing auras surrounding the avatars of fellow players who have made it to that level -- TM teacher, or Governor of the Age of Enlightenment, or gawd help us Raja. Their avatars have more style than Ron Burgundy...who *wouldn't* want that? And as you progress in the game, gather your tokens, and use them to buy more courses and thus more aura, you start to notice the easter eggs dropped all along the way. The easter eggs all hint at something *more* than just a cool aura...they hint at Enlightenment Itself. You just *know* that EI is way cool, because so few fellow players seem to have attained that level. So you keep pursuing the game even after reaching the TM teacher, Governor, or Raja level, because the big EI is still out there, beckoning. Sects and splinter groups and cliques arise, as players who claim to have attained EI set up shop and tell other players how to attain EIness the way they have. And the whole time, the big EI remains as elusive and as it was when you first started playing. It's the perfect computer game, the kind people play for whole lifetimes...
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
morning light abiding in the beauty of yonder shore Enlightenment. Is it . . . Being in harmony with our own state of evolution. Each state of consciousness with its own reality, each inseparable yet distinct from one another. As night is from day.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
light and dark the yonder shores of each other, somewhere in the middle they meet, lost and found in the beauty of the other From: sound of stillness soundofstilln...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 12:35 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment morning light abiding in the beauty of yonder shore Enlightenment. Is it . . . Being in harmony with our own state of evolution. Each state of consciousness with its own reality, each inseparable yet distinct from one another. As night is from day.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 ***
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
Carol me and many of my long term TM friends could care less if we're enlightened. But I want to respond to your exchange with Emily about backpacking, walking the dog, etc. I remember the first time I meditated in March 1975 I thought, oh, I've had this before. It was very familiar to me. From sometimes getting in the zone when I played sports. Sometimes snoozing in the hammock in the backyard after work. Sometimes from dancing to my favorite music. Body surfing! Sometimes from marijuana. And I definitely wanted that relaxed but alive experience in a natural way. I think that's what I get with TM. I really like Maharishi's analogy for this: meditating is like dipping a cloth in the dye where the cloth is your nervous system and the dye is Being or pure consciousness or what Doc calls Silence. Then engaging in daily activity is like putting the cloth in the sun. The color fades, but not completely. What color is left after fading in the sun, that color is permanent. Then dip in dye again, then fade again, over and over until one day the color is totally permanent. Being or Silence is permanently experienced along with all other states. Maharishi calls it restful alertness and for me that phrase captures its quality of being both settled and potentially full of activity. I'd say practicing TM makes the whole process not necessarily faster but more reliable. From: Carol jchwe...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 ***
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
Oh Share I love this! I wish I could see Bob Roth and his TMO buddies response to the statement that TM transcending thru TM and smoking pot sometimes give the same experience! Thanks for posting this! From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words Carol me and many of my long term TM friends could care less if we're enlightened. But I want to respond to your exchange with Emily about backpacking, walking the dog, etc. I remember the first time I meditated in March 1975 I thought, oh, I've had this before. It was very familiar to me. From sometimes getting in the zone when I played sports. Sometimes snoozing in the hammock in the backyard after work. Sometimes from dancing to my favorite music. Body surfing! Sometimes from marijuana. And I definitely wanted that relaxed but alive experience in a natural way. I think that's what I get with TM. I really like Maharishi's analogy for this: meditating is like dipping a cloth in the dye where the cloth is your nervous system and the dye is Being or pure consciousness or what Doc calls Silence. Then engaging in daily activity is like putting the cloth in the sun. The color fades, but not completely. What color is left after fading in the sun, that color is permanent. Then dip in dye again, then fade again, over and over until one day the color is totally permanent. Being or Silence is permanently experienced along with all other states. Maharishi calls it restful alertness and for me that phrase captures its quality of being both settled and potentially full of activity. I'd say practicing TM makes the whole process not necessarily faster but more reliable. From: Carol jchwe...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 ***
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
dear MJ, silly boy, you know that's not what I meant. Anyway, I'm not a gov so probably I got something wrong. And I did fall on the ice this morning so maybe vata is very vitiated. I'm just sayin. But hey, if you're happy, I'm happy (-: BTW, I just made it across the verges, across the sidewalks, across the street and to my car which is now ice free. Next, a trip to the grocery store. I'm so brave! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words Oh Share I love this! I wish I could see Bob Roth and his TMO buddies response to the statement that TM transcending thru TM and smoking pot sometimes give the same experience! Thanks for posting this! From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words Carol me and many of my long term TM friends could care less if we're enlightened. But I want to respond to your exchange with Emily about backpacking, walking the dog, etc. I remember the first time I meditated in March 1975 I thought, oh, I've had this before. It was very familiar to me. From sometimes getting in the zone when I played sports. Sometimes snoozing in the hammock in the backyard after work. Sometimes from dancing to my favorite music. Body surfing! Sometimes from marijuana. And I definitely wanted that relaxed but alive experience in a natural way. I think that's what I get with TM. I really like Maharishi's analogy for this: meditating is like dipping a cloth in the dye where the cloth is your nervous system and the dye is Being or pure consciousness or what Doc calls Silence. Then engaging in daily activity is like putting the cloth in the sun. The color fades, but not completely. What color is left after fading in the sun, that color is permanent. Then dip in dye again, then fade again, over and over until one day the color is totally permanent. Being or Silence is permanently experienced along with all other states. Maharishi calls it restful alertness and for me that phrase captures its quality of being both settled and potentially full of activity. I'd say practicing TM makes the whole process not necessarily faster but more reliable. From: Carol jchwe...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:45 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 ***
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
On 01/27/2013 10:45 AM, Carol wrote: I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 *** I think that Maharishi really confused his followers by giving them the idea there was these plateaus. And if these plateaus weren't achieved you are not enlightened. But go to India and they will tell you if that inner silence doesn't go away after meditation you are well on the road of enlightenment. On the road because it is an ongrowing experience. About two years after learning TM I found that I wasn't really coming out of meditation as the state stayed with me. After a while it is like the self doesn't exist unless it is drawn attention to by some demand (like a tax collector). I think many meditators thought that enlightenment was going to be a big flashy thing with all kinds of lights auras and very powerful. What they often describe would be something that would leave a person unable to interact in daily life. They would be sitting in a chair dazzled as if on LSD. Instead it is that vast inner silence that permeates everything and is very grounding. And it doesn't stop there.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
That is a pretty cool description - if you don't mind my asking as a relative newcomer to FFL - did you learn TM in India or the US? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words On 01/27/2013 10:45 AM, Carol wrote: I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 *** I think that Maharishi really confused his followers by giving them the idea there was these plateaus. And if these plateaus weren't achieved you are not enlightened. But go to India and they will tell you if that inner silence doesn't go away after meditation you are well on the road of enlightenment. On the road because it is an ongrowing experience. About two years after learning TM I found that I wasn't really coming out of meditation as the state stayed with me. After a while it is like the self doesn't exist unless it is drawn attention to by some demand (like a tax collector). I think many meditators thought that enlightenment was going to be a big flashy thing with all kinds of lights auras and very powerful. What they often describe would be something that would leave a person unable to interact in daily life. They would be sitting in a chair dazzled as if on LSD. Instead it is that vast inner silence that permeates everything and is very grounding. And it doesn't stop there.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words to bhairitu
Around MIU in the late 70s I always heard that flash is trash, not something to be sought. I've noticed that flash tends to happen more with those who did LSD. Which I did not. And I never heard Maharishi talk about plateaus. Anyway, with practice of the sidhis, the silence I've noticed can be leaning a little more towards liveliness than towards pure silence. Which I also associate with Purusha so maybe more likely for a guy. Or more likely for kapha types? Anyway, silence is not to be tried for. Nor is it useful to try and get deep. My understanding is that from CC to GC the depth comes up to the surface. Pointless to try and feel deep in or out of meditation. Actually counter productive. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words On 01/27/2013 10:45 AM, Carol wrote: I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 *** I think that Maharishi really confused his followers by giving them the idea there was these plateaus. And if these plateaus weren't achieved you are not enlightened. But go to India and they will tell you if that inner silence doesn't go away after meditation you are well on the road of enlightenment. On the road because it is an ongrowing experience. About two years after learning TM I found that I wasn't really coming out of meditation as the state stayed with me. After a while it is like the self doesn't exist unless it is drawn attention to by some demand (like a tax collector). I think many meditators thought that enlightenment was going to be a big flashy thing with all kinds of lights auras and very powerful. What they often describe would be something that would leave a person unable to interact in daily life. They would be sitting in a chair dazzled as if on LSD. Instead it is that vast inner silence that permeates everything and is very grounding. And it doesn't stop there.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Carol jchwe...@gmail.com wrote: ** I find your response interesting. Ravi, I started another thread regarding enlightenment here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333764 Would you mind commenting on that thread? (Just to keep the comments together. Hope that is an okay request here on FFL.) In your words, what is enlightenment? Thank you Carol. Here's what I came up for your question. Enlightenment creates a state of consciousness, a context of self-freedom in which one is not constrained by anything outside of oneself even as one performs normal actions and goes through normal moods as everyone else. An unperturbed inner state of mind untouched, untainted, unconditioned by anything. Thank you! * --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Meditation gets you there faster, no? No this is a wrong notion that I see being perpetuated by everyone I hear. Meditation lets you purify your body, mind and senses so the transition is smoother, easier when the mystical energy descends. When this happens and if it indeed happens is a big question mark and has no relation to a regular meditation practice such as in my case. Two years down the line I seem to agree with Vaj that TM is an unhealthy meditation technique that can cause abnormal states of mind - better to stick with hatha yoga, pranaayama etc. So enlightenment is not an achievement. This is the problem I had with most on Batgap - what most are describing there are some altered states of consciousness created by their meditation techniques.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words
In the US. I didn't get to India until 1996. On 01/27/2013 12:24 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: That is a pretty cool description - if you don't mind my asking as a relative newcomer to FFL - did you learn TM in India or the US? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words On 01/27/2013 10:45 AM, Carol wrote: I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 *** I think that Maharishi really confused his followers by giving them the idea there was these plateaus. And if these plateaus weren't achieved you are not enlightened. But go to India and they will tell you if that inner silence doesn't go away after meditation you are well on the road of enlightenment. On the road because it is an ongrowing experience. About two years after learning TM I found that I wasn't really coming out of meditation as the state stayed with me. After a while it is like the self doesn't exist unless it is drawn attention to by some demand (like a tax collector). I think many meditators thought that enlightenment was going to be a big flashy thing with all kinds of lights auras and very powerful. What they often describe would be something that would leave a person unable to interact in daily life. They would be sitting in a chair dazzled as if on LSD. Instead it is that vast inner silence that permeates everything and is very grounding. And it doesn't stop there.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words to bhairitu
I have long said on FFL that one is on the road to enlightenment as soon as they stop being so concerned (or obsessed) about it. But I am also perplexed about people who have practiced meditation for years but say they've only had one or two clear experiences of transcending. I also think that many people were so confused about CC, GC, UC and BC that they might miss they developed some inner silence that is growing daily. Often some advaita exercises will make them aware of it. In other paths it's just called moksha and no levels to it. Obsessing about different levels is just a distraction and impediment. On 01/27/2013 12:37 PM, Share Long wrote: Around MIU in the late 70s I always heard that flash is trash, not something to be sought. I've noticed that flash tends to happen more with those who did LSD. Which I did not. And I never heard Maharishi talk about plateaus. Anyway, with practice of the sidhis, the silence I've noticed can be leaning a little more towards liveliness than towards pure silence. Which I also associate with Purusha so maybe more likely for a guy. Or more likely for kapha types? Anyway, silence is not to be tried for. Nor is it useful to try and get deep. My understanding is that from CC to GC the depth comes up to the surface. Pointless to try and feel deep in or out of meditation. Actually counter productive. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment...in your own words On 01/27/2013 10:45 AM, Carol wrote: I'm curious to hear/read different folks descriptions of what it is like to have the Silence permeate other areas of your life. And why is this state of grounded in the self and permanent silence called Enlightenment? Thanks! PS: Jim (doctordumbass) stated in his own words regarding Enlightenment: It is anything but a static state, first experienced as always being grounded in the Self, or permanent silence. Once a person is established in Silenc within, the enlightenment begins to infect everything else. The Silence within can no longer be overshadowed, destroyed, or disrupted. Sounds crazy, huh?:-) He stated that here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/333754 *** I think that Maharishi really confused his followers by giving them the idea there was these plateaus. And if these plateaus weren't achieved you are not enlightened. But go to India and they will tell you if that inner silence doesn't go away after meditation you are well on the road of enlightenment. On the road because it is an ongrowing experience. About two years after learning TM I found that I wasn't really coming out of meditation as the state stayed with me. After a while it is like the self doesn't exist unless it is drawn attention to by some demand (like a tax collector). I think many meditators thought that enlightenment was going to be a big flashy thing with all kinds of lights auras and very powerful. What they often describe would be something that would leave a person unable to interact in daily life. They would be sitting in a chair dazzled as if on LSD. Instead it is that vast inner silence that permeates everything and is very grounding. And it doesn't stop there.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I love it! From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment A saw a healer, who I didn't realize was Hindu-based at the time and told me that if I didn't do my spiritual work, I'd reincarnate as a lower life form. I asked her for an example - she said cat. I said, I'm O.K. with that. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:12 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Thought I would offer this for purposes of discussion. These are my own beliefs at this time: From the teachings or musings if you will of people like Eckhart Tolle and Anita Moorjani, Adyashanti one has to believe that the whole thing about enlightenment and the whole schtick that goes with it is complete made up bullshit. Some meditation teachers like to teach that enlightenment is something that is achievable in this lifetime, but in truth it is already here, covered over by egoic perception. Maharishi was particularly prone to promulgate this idea that enlightenment was something to precious and rare that needed to be pursued, to be chased, and he and teachers like him do that to be able to get more people to buy their nosturms. But evidently what we have called “enlightenment” is our natural state must by virtue of being, just by being. You don’t have to go anywhere or do anything to become this “state” of awareness or being, but just be. It must mean that meditation and seeking will never lead to the experience of enlightenment, and when most people talk about their enlightenment they are referring to a fluctuating experience of consciousness. This to me also means that the old Hindu stuff about having to spend countless lifetimes as plants, bugs, animals and so forth until you “merit” a human body is also complete made up bullshit. Why would the Infinite Magnificence, the Unlimited Love that we are choose to do that? I can’t think of a reason. Any thoughts folks?
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
Thought I would offer this for purposes of discussion. These are my own beliefs at this time: From the teachings or musings if you will of people like Eckhart Tolle and Anita Moorjani, Adyashanti one has to believe that the whole thing about enlightenment and the whole schtick that goes with it is complete made up bullshit. Some meditation teachers like to teach that enlightenment is something that is achievable in this lifetime, but in truth it is already here, covered over by egoic perception. Maharishi was particularly prone to promulgate this idea that enlightenment was something to precious and rare that needed to be pursued, to be chased, and he and teachers like him do that to be able to get more people to buy their nosturms. But evidently what we have called “enlightenment” is our natural state must by virtue of being, just by being. You don’t have to go anywhere or do anything to become this “state” of awareness or being, but just be. It must mean that meditation and seeking will never lead to the experience of enlightenment, and when most people talk about their enlightenment they are referring to a fluctuating experience of consciousness. This to me also means that the old Hindu stuff about having to spend countless lifetimes as plants, bugs, animals and so forth until you “merit” a human body is also complete made up bullshit. Why would the Infinite Magnificence, the Unlimited Love that we are choose to do that? I can’t think of a reason. Any thoughts folks?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
A saw a healer, who I didn't realize was Hindu-based at the time and told me that if I didn't do my spiritual work, I'd reincarnate as a lower life form. I asked her for an example - she said cat. I said, I'm O.K. with that. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:12 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Thought I would offer this for purposes of discussion. These are my own beliefs at this time: From the teachings or musings if you will of people like Eckhart Tolle and Anita Moorjani, Adyashanti one has to believe that the whole thing about enlightenment and the whole schtick that goes with it is complete made up bullshit. Some meditation teachers like to teach that enlightenment is something that is achievable in this lifetime, but in truth it is already here, covered over by egoic perception. Maharishi was particularly prone to promulgate this idea that enlightenment was something to precious and rare that needed to be pursued, to be chased, and he and teachers like him do that to be able to get more people to buy their nosturms. But evidently what we have called “enlightenment” is our natural state must by virtue of being, just by being. You don’t have to go anywhere or do anything to become this “state” of awareness or being, but just be. It must mean that meditation and seeking will never lead to the experience of enlightenment, and when most people talk about their enlightenment they are referring to a fluctuating experience of consciousness. This to me also means that the old Hindu stuff about having to spend countless lifetimes as plants, bugs, animals and so forth until you “merit” a human body is also complete made up bullshit. Why would the Infinite Magnificence, the Unlimited Love that we are choose to do that? I can’t think of a reason. Any thoughts folks?
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment in a box
This is from an older post I wrote about 10 years back. I guess it's a kind of fashion here to cite older posts. For me this post is interesting, because it describes my relationship to TM or actually any formal meditation practice even now, and I really didn't change my basic view. For some of you here, who may not know me so well, you can also more easily see where I am coming from, form here. Here it is: 1.While you are disallowed to have any expectation during meditation, it is nevertheless absolutely clear, that, before starting the process people do indeed have a lot of expectations from meditation, e.g. getting enlightened. This expectation is in itself counterproductive to realization. You will hardly be able to avoid, that such an expectation is still there in a subtle, and however hidden form during meditation (which you can of course call incorrect meditation). 2.Basically I think that there are two views on enlightenment: one view is the one from the relative side, which says, there is a way; while the other view is the one from the absolute side of it, which says there is no way, everyone is enlightened already. Both these views are diametrically opposite, and there is really nothing which connects them. To switch from one view to the other, can therefore only be a rather sudden shift. Even so Maharishi in his general teaching adheres to to the first view, he on many occasions, contradicted himself to present the second view. I especially remember one lecture series where he states at almost every lecture, that bit by bit (i.e.by practice) Brahman grows, just to say the very opposite in the next lecture, that this concept of Brahman growing is complete ignorance, as Brahman is already always whole, and that the whole path is illusory, in the desert of ignorance. So Maharishi gives different views, according to the level of understanding of his audience. 3. Don't forget, that the ego-mind has basically no interest in getting dissolved, and will therefore use anything to hide. And this can of course be meditation, the path, itself. In that way, the ego will try to *use* meditation, to avoid to be in the now. It will try to use anything, so its not the fault of the meditation-process. It will use other things too of course. 4. I think, that the explanation of how TM works is taken too absolute in the TM community. Maharishi once said, that an elephant has two kinds of teeth: two to show, and two to chew. This was with regard to some question about the prep. lecture, and the mechanics how thoughts arise. He thereby indicated that the explanation model was not absolutely accurate in the strict sense, but was sufficient to carry the basic message across. He also said once, that for each level of awareness, knowledge is different, and the teaching will be also different. What was a Truth on one level, maybe a lie on the next higher level. There is not one Truth for all levels. He also said once that the knowledge we learn now intellectually must be forgotten before we can actually experience this. For example, in order to reach enlightenment, all concepts of high and low, and of different states must be forgotten. Basically it is a process, which leads to the destruction of all concepts, especially the once so cherished ones, of how we can attain enlightenment, and what it actually is. A man whom I regard very highly once told me: the more you learn, the more you have to unlearn. 5. As such it may very well be, that someone will stop meditation, if this is found to be his last attachment, which has to be broken. Or he/she may carry on, but the process seems to be rather irrelevant now. Or meditation will occur by itself without volition on ones own side. I think in any of these cases, there simply won't be a choice any more (as there is no one there anymore who chooses). At this point its simply a surrender of the mind-ego complex, and the question of the technique is irrelevant. You might argue that this is the case only *after* you gained freedom, but this process of detachment and breaking concepts may take its time, and it will be hard to say, where the line of division is. Please don't misunderstand me here: I am not suggesting that you should stop meditating, nor am I saying that at a certain situation you should stop, or that you should change your practice. I am just saying that this might occur spontaneously in this situation. 6. In a certain way TM is really like enlightenment in a box. I mean during meditation, the process is completely guided by nature, you are just witnessing thoughts, there is no volition to achieve anything, and no expectation. This is not so in real life afterwards, as I already pointed out, there are lot of expectations about achieving something. (There are also lot of techniques and aids offered nowadays). Why not? It would certainly be a good idea to not meditate to become enlightened, but instead
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Test
Scoring: 0-10 = possibly enlightened 11-15 = possibly enlightened 15-20 = possibly enlightened 21-43 = possibly enlightened 44-75 = possibly enlightened The number of points to ascribe to each question will be discovered once you have answered each question correctly. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment and freedom from mistakes
MMY used to claim that someone who was enlightened would be unable to make a mistake, or similar words. What did he mean? L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment and freedom from mistakes
On Apr 11, 2012, at 12:32 PM, sparaig wrote: MMY used to claim that someone who was enlightened would be unable to make a mistake, or similar words. What did he mean? He was talking about the difference between deluded perception and direct perception.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment of the Dominators
by Maura Holden http://visionaryrevue.com/webmedia4/holdenmedia/hold.enlighten.html
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment and its relationship to buttons
Still tripping on HBO's Enlightened (you can tell I like it), I'm thinkin' in this cafe about the things it's gotten me thinkin' about since viewing its first episode. The nature of the trains of thoughts it's spun off for me are as interesting to me as the series itself. For example, it's gotten me thinkin' about what my definition of an enlightened being might be, were I to run into one. I have been able to come up with only a couple of things I would look for. The first is sense of humor, and an accompanying sense of delight in life. Call me crazy, but I cannot conceive of enlightenment as lacking that quality. The second is having the ability to resist having their emotional buttons pushed easily, and reacting to that button-pushing by dropping into reactive or samskaric mindstates. This criterion is merely a belief on my part. I can't even cite you a scriptural source for it, other than Maharishi's line on stone rap. But I intuitively feel it to be true. Or as close to true or truth as I am able to believe in. This is the area in which I think that many of the famous and the far less famous Supposedly Enlightened I've run into in this life fall a little short of walking their talk. Like Amy on HBO, many of these folks talk the talk just fine, as long as everything is going their way and no one is making any waves. But the moment the waves get a little choppy, almost all of them I've met personally or over the Internet tend to be just as prey to having their emotional buttons pushed as anyone else. And when they do get their buttons pushed, they seem to be just as prone to becoming a tad reactive, and feeling the need to get samskaric on the button-pusher's ass as anyone else. I'm gonna hold out for an image of enlightenment that doesn't include having such a thin skin that you can still get your buttons pushed. It may be an unrealistic definition, but hey! we're talking about enlightenment, and what could be more unrealistic than the definitions we've been given of that?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment and its relationship to buttons
On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:22 AM, turquoiseb wrote: For example, it's gotten me thinkin' about what my definition of an enlightened being might be, were I to run into one. I have been able to come up with only a couple of things I would look for. The first is sense of humor, and an accompanying sense of delight in life. Call me crazy, but I cannot conceive of enlightenment as lacking that quality. I've told this story before, but a friend who was an advanced chi- kung practitioner was to make a journey to some remote region of China to attempt to receive teachings from a very widely respected master and to receive specific teachings. It was not known whether or not the teacher would even grant audience with him after the difficult journey, but after much difficulty he finally arrived and was told the teacher would see him in a couple of days. At last the day arrived, but the teacher said we would need to see if the student was ready. So with some intrepidation my friend entered the interview room. The teacher said he only had one question for him: Do you know how to laugh at yourself? It just happened our teacher had placed great emphasis on this and how to let the positive influence of laughter and smiling and openness circulate through the body as a preliminary to all practices. So without hesitation the master answered yes. The teacher accepted him as his student and he received all the teachings he sought. Laughter is so important an element of basic openness as to be considered indispensable. The second is having the ability to resist having their emotional buttons pushed easily, and reacting to that button-pushing by dropping into reactive or samskaric mindstates. We now know what's happening is many people when they become reactive they actually drop into the primitive reptilian part of the brain. Blood supply is shunted to the arms and legs and leaves the higher brain without the blood to think clearly. I see that happen a lot here. The common place this happens is when there's great emotional stakes which a person perceives being high, and one is attached to a certain outcome or opinon. They'll drop right into that ole brainstem. All the awakeners I know, will not and do not fall into this pattern. Even elements of surprise leave them undisturbed as if they were a calm unperturbable center. I've met several Dzogchen masters who would use this is an element of play with which to point out the Natural State.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment and FFL
Still pondering the new HBO series Enlightened, I am struck by how good Laura Dern's performance in it was. I am also struck by how much fodder it may produce for discussion here on FFL, if people treat it as the opportunity for intelligent discussion it is. Laura Dern is, after all, a talented actress; she has been nominated for an Oscar, and was often arguably the only redeeming factor in any number of David Lynch films. She's also a multi-year TMer, and thus probably familiar with the phenomenon of someone having -- or merely claiming to have had -- a realization or enlightenment experience. So her performance is nuanced and real. More important, she's been given dialogue by writers who seem to understand that from an objective bystander's point of view, there is often very little difference between a person claiming to be enlightened and a person suffering from full-on manic depression. In their manic phases, both are completely convinced of the validity of their subjective experiences, and often equally con- vinced that others around them should see them the way that they see themselves. Those others...uh...not so much; for them, if it quacks like a manic-depressive, they may be more likely to perceive it as one, as opposed to perceiving it as enlightenment. Laura Dern's Amy is admittedly off her meds, after having first suffered a breakdown, and then subsequently having had a realization experience. So which is she -- realized or merely manic-depressive and off her meds? That seems to be the theme that will be explored by this TV series. Interestingly, here on FFL we also tend to explore the same theme. Think Ravi, when he first descended here. Think Robin. Think any number of other crazy wisdom gurus or wannabee gurus whose exploits have been related here. From their subjective points of view, they are certainly experiencing *something*. They choose to call it realization or enlightenment. From the points of view of others around them, what they are experiencing may be legitimately seen as something else, something more from the off the meds mundane world than the off the wheel spiritual world. Which is real? Does real even exist? All good fodder for discussion, from my point of view. Whether that can actually happen here without people getting all uptight behind defending their particular point of view is another question entirely.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment is a trap?
Enlightenment is a trap? [Re: [Psychognosis_Archive] You havenât achieved Enlightenment yet? I dropped enlightenment! Living 'with' people is much more satisfying! Enlightenment is not an achievement but a state to avoid as it has nothing to do with enjoying life more.. I suggest knowing and enjoying yourself with everyday an exciting venture. 'Enlightenment' is a trap of the ego. Arhata ] Ahh, so that is what enlightenment is eh. Slap me bloody vitals I didn't know that. But anyway it aint my ball park. I talk and write about mystical experience and life not enlightenment. Anyway, feel free to tell us what it is like living with people. I have never known that. Oh you are a funny little Osho aren't you and you cant even see it :- ) Do you ware pink knickers too? Merlin
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment: inside and outside the same
Is this what all the Enlightenment talk is about: inside = outside? http://billyshirefinearts.com/09Ulrich/insideandoutside.html
[FairfieldLife] 'Enlightenment is not a function of the Mind'
Enlightenment is not of the Rational Mind... It is an intuitive reality... Ego is a funtion of the rational mind... Ego is what divides us all... Human Being are the only beings on the planet that have developed Ego... Human Beings are the only beings on the planet that have created war, greed, lust and all the rest of it... Developing the mind and the intellect has gotten humanity where it is today...on the brink of collapse... The only way to save this planet from Destruction is to form some kind of Intuition that we are all One... This was Jesus' essential teaching also... Don't be deluded by the ego...in whatever form it takes... And especially by one's whose egos have gotten beyond the brink.. Hitler was also a teacher of seperation... The South still wants to be seperate from the Union... Seperateness breeds contempt... Seperateness breeds death... Seperateness is not the ultimate reality, period.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment in Nichiren's Buddhism
Enlightenment is a process, not an end-goal. http://www.nichirenbuddhist.org/LearnBuddhism/IntroBook/ch2.html
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Makes You Thoughtless
Actually this is NOT a theory at all, it is a fact of experience - for those who have known it. Knowledge, Innate Understanding, and Vision, yet no possibility to think. Thinking requires Time, but in the domain of the SELF time and change do not exist there. One can of course think when one comes back here again - and one then has more to think about :- ) Not everybody calls it enlightenment however. I don't either, and never have since I found it one evening for three hours in 1964. THAT was a shock to be sure. But you get over the shock and then Synthesise it all. THAT is the hard bit. Well, for a while anyway. But it comes. Dick Richardson.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment and pulse
Under the kapha finger one might also find a padma gati, a lotus pulse.[...] This pulse is present during deep meditation and indicates enlightenment and a blissfull state. - Lad, Secrets of the Pulse
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment for Begineers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB0NsAukay4NR=1
[FairfieldLife] [Enlightenment and Justice for All the World]
On Behalf of His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi...I would like to invite, all
the children and adults of planet earth...
To, take a minute(actually 20, twice a day)To meditate, the 'TM Way'
Now, the 'TM Way'..is a simple natural technique...Whereby the 'Mind' is
'Transcended'...and,{Pure Conscious Arises in 'One's Awareness'...}
So, that's it, in a nutshell...
Not necessary to 'Believe in Any Religion'...As this technique, actually
produces, what 'Religious/Mystical'...Experience, which the, 'Religion is Based
On'...
You see, all of the 'World's Religions'...Are based on the 'Teachings of the
Enlightened Ones'...
And therefore, like the man said: 'The KIngdom of Heaven Within, YOU!'
The End.
[FairfieldLife] 'enlightenment' personified...a conversation between two 'masters'
Vaj: It is the Stream Enterer that Buddha speaks of as being the minor boddhisatva, while being the Path Walker in his state of Three Jeweled Attention. Turq: Yes, it is the ego born of the intellect that makes such words worth arguing for, you dumb cunt- I meant you are a dumb English cunt, not an American cunt, a non gender specific cunt Vaj: How sad, to see the unwashed masses indulging in the pedophile, robber baron Mahesh's sick and twisted techniques, that will unable to make them bridge many lifetimes as the dzogen teachings become Clearer. Turq: As it the same I have found that TMers in their brainwashed states of ignorance, BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD THEM TO, while I was on my Way to convince them that all is just an ego battle, those angry cunts. Vaj: I totally agree that it is they who nitpick with each other when ironically it could just be said that His Holiness the Dalai Llama, the Stream Issuer of Yellow Snow in its purity would quite often assume the bearing of the three Worlds of Attention Based Meditation. (c.2002- Jenkins vs. Adkins vs. Cuddles). Turq: Exactly my point. What he really meant when he said that was because I told him the Way things were, and the only reason he said that was he is a cunt, not yet cured of his angry, ego-based emotions, BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD HIM TO. The other Way is JUST MY OPINION.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment Therapy
I. The Invisible Man If he hadn't been so distraught, he might have laughed at the absurdity of it: a Zen master in the waiting room of a psychoanalyst. Interesting article from today's New York Times Sunday Magazine. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/magazine/26zen-t.html?ref=magazine Science
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment as a Ponzi scheme (Bringing Bernie Madoff down to our level)
Best article on the Madoff scandal I've read so far, from NPR's Alex Blumberg: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101838294 And as you read it, think about enlight- enment in 5-8 years and Nabby's still- hopeful We'll be flying any day now and Everything will be fine when Maitreya gets here. Sweet Memories Of A Snack Food Financial Scheme by Alex Blumberg Morning Edition, March 13, 2009 · Today, Josh Bearman has gone straight. He's a successful writer in Los Angeles. But he was briefly a criminal mastermind in 1980 when he transferred to a new school in Minneapolis and joined the third grade. It was a fancy school where all the kids had fancy snacks like chewy granola bars and Rice Krispies treats. Bearman himself grew up in a spartan home with no sugar. To make matters worse, kids wouldn't just eat their lunches they'd flaunt them. Every day, a brisk trade in lunch snacks would take place. Kids would pile all their best items onto one main table and start bartering. People would say, 'Oh, well listen, I've just had my fill of Rice Krispies treats for two weeks in a row, straight. Why don't I have some of your Fruit Roll-Ups?' And so they would trade it all around, Bearman recalls. And it actually is a pretty efficient system. Everyone got what they wanted. It kind of all worked out for them. It didn't work out for me at all because I was totally outside of this economy. Because my peanut butter and jelly sandwich had no currency value in this market whatsoever. Cake Futures And so, Bearman came up with a plan. A scheme. A lie. He told his classmates that every year, on the last day of class, his mother would bake a cake. A huge cake. The most delicious cake you've ever tasted. So what I said was, 'Listen, that's going to be a great day. But in the meantime, I can offer you this special opportunity. And what we can do is, if you give me those Cheetos now, today, you can lay a claim you know, on a share of this future cake. You can have a deposit, and have a piece of this cake when it comes.' So, basically, I developed this sort of derivative lunchroom market for delicious cake futures. This idea took hold and spread, totally disrupting the old lunchroom economy. Bearman's classmates would line up in front of him at a new table: One Fruit Roll-Up bought a share worth one slice of cake; one chewy granola bar was worth two slices. To keep up appearances, Bearman would dutifully record the transactions in his Trapper Keeper. He'd even customize them. If a fellow classmate had a snack Bearman really wanted, something with giant-sized marshmallows for example, he'd say they could specially request what kind of cake they wanted red velvet, chocolate or angel food. Even, at a certain point, I believed in the cake, even though I'd made it up. Because I just imagined the hero's welcome I was going to receive when they wheeled this Technicolor, baked colossus into the schoolyard, and how incredible it was going to be, Bearman says. So there was this mutually reinforcing psychology: We all just bought into the idea of this cake. Well, not all. One kid named Spencer, who had been the king of the old lunchroom economy because of all the delicious treats he regularly pulled out of his lunch box, was suspicious of Bearman and the ever-expanding ledger in his Trapper Keeper. Suspicious, and good at math. Mr. Fundamentals, Spencer, is over there saying, 'Hey, the numbers don't add up,' Bearman recalls. Lessons From The Old Lunchroom Economy And here, Bearman's third-grade financial confidence game took on the exact contours of many of our current financial scandals. There's the group, taken in by the promise of a glorious future, and then there's the skeptic, saying this all doesn't add up. These two viewpoints tussle for a while, but eventually, the truth wins out. The dynamics are as true today as they were at a third-grade lunch table in 1980. Listen, I was giving the people what they wanted, Bearman says. They wanted they liked the idea of this cake. And also, they figured they were too far in. They were into this cake for 40 bags of Cheetos and 20 Nutter Butters. And so they couldn't walk away from all their investment! Eventually, the regulator, the school administration, who had previously turned a blind eye on the whole fraudulent enterprise, got involved long after, it must be said, anything could be done to help the victims. Bearman was punished but, as he says, those Cheetos and Nutter Butters, they were never coming back.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment: Benefit or Disorder? (was nature of attachment)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: i am enjoying the de facto title of this post; what is the nature of attachment? I changed it. My bad. :-) [ I'm going to reply as if you were serious in this post, and not just evading. BTW, I don't give a frak about your identity behind your screen name...that is a given as far as I am concerned. What I am interested in pinning down is how that identity thinks. ] especially in light of Barry's latest post to me, in which he attempts to pin down my perspective and identity, to verify...what? what if there is really nothing there? What if? I mean, wouldn't it be *nice* if there were no one there behind your screen name and identity here on this forum? Then you wouldn't have to care about your actions, and whether they were remembered, and whether they had consequences. No karma. Just say shit, and assume that everyone else has forgotten it as soon as it is out of your mouth, the way you seem to. That would be cool, wouldn't it? The ultimate Get Out Of Jail Free card. No cares, no responsibility. Why I'm saying this is that this is *exactly* many people on this forum's issue with the real-world actions of spiritual teachers and others who have in the past claimed enlightenment. They acted out in the real world what you seem to want to act out here in cyberspace. With sometimes less than positive results. I'm trying to pin down what the thinking is that leads people to do this -- announce their enlight- enment and then act as if the Big E gives them a Karmic Get Out Of Jail Free card, and that they no longer have any responsibility for their actions from that point onwards. It really ISN'T about picking on you at all. I'm more curious about the larger issue, because it seems to pervade not just the TM movement but many other spiritual movements, both now and in the past. I'm curious as to whether enlightenment is a benefit or a disorder. and that is what my post is about- how dynamics on a forum are different than what we look for in other printed material. none of us here is much more than a composite of what we say we are, how we express ourselves, and what others think of it and us as a result. i may claim all sorts of things about myself, and others, that trigger thoughts in others about what i have said. or not. and that's it. While there is some truth to the notion that a dif- ferent set of dynamics are in place on cyberforums ( they have been documented and studied and discussed often among scientists and sociologists ), still cyberspace is an interaction of *human beings*. Human beings act. Beings in cyberspace act. In the real world, the actions of human beings generate karma. In cyberspace, the actions of composites generate karma. Your first paragraph above ( and some of your composite's behavior on this forum ) leads me to believe that it believes that, for whatever reason, it has no more karma. It no longer needs to be concerned about what it said yesterday, or did yesterday. And it certainly isn't responsible for anything it did yesterday. If I were describing a mental patient, I think that you might agree with me that this patient is a few cans short of an ethical and moral and conceptual six-pack. Right? So what makes a cyberspace composite any different than the mental patient? And, to turn the conversation back to my real point again, what are the implications when a spiritual teacher or one of their followers seems to believe that now that they are enlightened they are not responsible for any of their actions? no one has a past or future here, or is any more valid than anyone else here. Uh...excuse me? Did you really say that? Go back and read it again. And then, after you do, skim back up and read the paragraph about mental patients again. I'm sorry, but *everyone* here has a past and a future. So do all of the enlightened beings in the world today. What makes many of us question the *value* of enlight- enment is that many of these supposedly enlightened beings say stupid shit like We don't have a past or a future, and ACT that way in terms of refusing to acknowledge any responsibility for the things they do and say. like ruth was asking, why are we here? me, i enjoy swapping energy here. that is what this place is for me; swapping energy. Cool. That is why I'm here, too. And most of us. But to be honest, I don't think you hear too many of the rest of us claiming that we have no past or future. Or responsibility for our actions. You yourself have been recently giving Vaj a shitload of grief for his past actions. Howcum he has a past and a need to be held accountable for it and you don't? :-) it is all about the energy of the moment, that last post. I am fairly certain that you're being honest here, and would like to believe that this is true. But it isn't. Cyberspace is a lot like life -- a *succession* of moments, one
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment: Benefit or Disorder? (was nature of attachment)
On Feb 14, 2009, at 1:06 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: I'm trying to pin down what the thinking is that leads people to do this -- announce their enlight- enment and then act as if the Big E gives them a Karmic Get Out Of Jail Free card, and that they no longer have any responsibility for their actions from that point onwards. From both a Buddhist/Abhidharma perspective and an Advaita Vedanta perspective it appears to be a confusion and/or failure to experientially grok the Two Truths, the relative and the absolute. It's quite common IME to see claimants of E. fall into extremes, i.e. become absolutists or nihilists. It is often what makes it clear they're holding a false view (of reality). It's like having a booger on your face and bragging about how good looking you are.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment: Benefit or Disorder? (was nature of attachment)
Vaj wrote: On Feb 14, 2009, at 1:06 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: I'm trying to pin down what the thinking is that leads people to do this -- announce their enlight- enment and then act as if the Big E gives them a Karmic Get Out Of Jail Free card, and that they no longer have any responsibility for their actions from that point onwards. From both a Buddhist/Abhidharma perspective and an Advaita Vedanta perspective it appears to be a confusion and/or failure to experientially grok the Two Truths, the relative and the absolute. It's quite common IME to see claimants of E. fall into extremes, i.e. become absolutists or nihilists. It is often what makes it clear they're holding a false view (of reality). It's like having a booger on your face and bragging about how good looking you are. I think it is okay for people to say that they are experiencing enlightenment but stupid or wrong to say they are enlightened. Most people who have working meditation techniques should be experiencing enlightenment. They should be starting to see a bigger picture. Often that comprehension goes beyond the boundaries of the comprehension of the average person. You might start seeing that many laws and morals were nothing but a form of mind programming to keep masses under control down through the centuries. But if you point that out to the average individual who has not thought about it that way they think you are either crazy or dangerous. :-D
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment as a Myth
the horsehead nebula in the constellation orion. one Zen story. Bokuju was meditating – meditating very deeply, meditating with his whole heart. His master would come every day, and he would just laugh and go back. Bokuju became annoyed. The master would not say anything, he would just come and look at him, laugh and go away. And Bokuju was feeling very good in meditation. His meditation was deepening, and he needed someone to appreciate him. He was waiting for the master to pat him and say, Good, Bokuju. You did well. But the master just laughed. The laughter felt insulting – as if Bokuju was not progressing, and he was progressing. As he progressed more, the laughter grew more and more insulting. It was impossible to tolerate it now. One day the master came, and Bokuju was feeling absolutely silent as far as mind can go; there was no noise within, no thought. The mind was absolutely transparent; no barrier was felt. He was filled with a subtle deep happiness, joy was bubbling all over, he was in ecstasy. Thus, he thought, Now my master will not laugh. Now the moment has come, and he is going to tell me, `Now Bokuju, you have become enlightened. ' That day the master came: the master came with a brick in his hand, and he started rubbing that brick on the rock on which Bokuju was sitting. He was so silent, and the rubbing of the brick created noise. He became annoyed. At last he couldn't tolerate it, so he opened his eyes and asked his master, What are you doing? The master said, I am trying to make this brick a mirror, and by continuously rubbing it I hope that someday this brick will become a mirror. Bokuju said, You are behaving stupidly. This stone, this brick, is not going to become a mirror. No matter how much you rub it, it is not going to become a mirror. The master laughed and said, Then what are you doing? This mind can never become enlightened, and you go on rubbing and rubbing it. You are polishing it, and you are feeling so good that when I laugh you feel annoyed. And suddenly, as the master threw his brick, Bokuju became aware. When the master threw his brick, suddenly he felt that the master was right, and the mind broke. Then from that day on there was no mind and no meditation. He became enlightened. The master said to him, Now you can move anywhere. Go, and teach others also. First teach them meditation; then teach them non- meditation. First teach them how to make the mind clear, because only a very clear mind can understand that now even this clear mind is a barrier. Only a deeply meditative mind can understand that now even meditation has to be thrown. Zen Story http://www.freedomofspeech.netfirms.com/
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment means literally aligning...
Enlightenment means literally aligning to the Energy of my Source. And genius is only about focusing. Law of Attraction takes care of everything else. Physical humans often want to make enlightenment about finding some process and moving through the process that has been pre-described. But true enlightenment is moving to the rhythm of the internal inspiration that is coming in response to the individual desire. Enlightenment is about allowing my Connection to the Source that is me for the fulfillment of the things that I have individually defined here in my time-space-reality. That's as good as it gets! --- Abraham Hicks- http://www.abraham-hicks.com/lawofattractionsource/lawofattractionquotes.php Excerpted from the workshop in Boulder, CO on Saturday, June 7th, 2003
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment according to Dattareya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3hM6LFzWlUfeature=related
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment is a gift from the Guru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-0lOWVKGwfeature=channel
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment by accident....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/fashion/25brain.html The video is well worth a look for her descrition of the experience and how it affects her still. Fascinating stuff. http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment by accident....
It is a fascinating video that everyone should try to see. I've shared it with over half a dozen people and the response has been that it's very inspiring and uplifting and actually seems to give a great sense of hope to those who watch it. This same topic, of lateral shifts in brain dominance, is also one of great interest to meditation researchers. On Jun 23, 2008, at 8:08 AM, Hugo wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/fashion/25brain.html The video is well worth a look for her descrition of the experience and how it affects her still. Fascinating stuff. http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment, Alzhiemers and Stoned Memory Loss -- was Byron Katie's
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: So, for example, if I go outside and it is cold, my body gets cold and I come inside and say, its cold outside. Then my body warms up because it is warmer inside and then I don't know any longer whether it is cold outside. Why must I hold onto the belief that it is cold outside, when in fact I don't really know one way of the other? Your description reminds me of Tom Hank's character on SNL: Jingle: Mr. Short-Term Memory. He shouldn't have stood under that pear tree. Now there's just no remedy. He'll frustrate you so But he'll never know. Because he's Mr. Short-Term Memory. funny-- except the guy sounds retarded- no skill in action. Otherwise, spot on. Interesting. I think MMY's starting a new project everyday -- irrespective of all of the unfinished 500-1000 projects of the prior 500-1000 days, may be that he simply forgot what he started yesterday. Or it was faint. Too faint to be bothered with. Particularly when the current idea, right now, is so bright and fabulous. The classic short memory loss is Alzheimers. I watched my mom's progression -- from typical senior moments of lapsed ST memory -- to the end state of nothingness. All the while maintaining long term memories (except the last few months when the whole brain function apparently collapsed.) Having seen it up close, I don't fully buy into Alzhiemers being as horrible as many, and the popular press, cast it. Its NOT a great thing in many ways, but it has its own style and joy. I watched her lose layers of outer shells and revealed more of the real authentic person inside the shells -- very sweet, insightful and caring. Just not concerned about what happened a minute ago. Or yesterday. It was if I got to meet her in her earlier years -- as a young adult, as a teenager, as a child. She functioned pretty well in many things -- an had skill in action in a number of ways. However, the memory loss was progressive, so the style and skill changed to adapt over time. As things progressed, the balance changed changed. The balance of 'maintaining, functioning, and being liberated from the chains of the (nearer term ) past. Lots of things dropped away -- near term things no longer clutching on to her, no longer shaping or binding her. At times, as things progressed, her description of things became primitive in the real, down to earth, full-spectrum nowness of the term. Sitting in the back yard, a favorite past time, she would look at the sky , clouds and sunset and say things like Big Bloom or something -- usually a bit more detailed -- but very simple, basic, without the filters of current conventions and conditioning. And she was aware, at least for a while, that she was losing her short term grasp. Or being liberated from it. She would joke, The great thing about losing your memory is you can watch the same terrific movie each night, and its just like it was brand new. She laughed and laughed about that. Everything was brand new. No pre-conceptions. No filters. to short-term conditioning. Living in the moment. And the Nearer Term progressed from a hour ago, a day ago, a month ago, 10 years ago, 50 years ago. Thus, some day-to-day functional abilities were lost traded for a ever expanding type of freedom an Nowness. Which occurred to me when I read Jim's comment -- that the ST memory of Hanks was spot on, but he didn't or couldn't maintain or be sufficiently skillfulness to integrate figuring out each new moment -- with functioning in the world. And that this balance may change and progress also. More NOW over time, and less ability to maintain. Or caring about such. Bringing to mind stories of saints who have lost it. I have thought of progressive memory loss as a natural and reasonable way to wind down ones current life -- getting progressively detached over time -- before dropping the dross and moving on to a new life -- beyond the limits, conditioning and boundaries of this one. Another form of ST memory loss is, as ironically, I recall, from ganga -- Shiva's secret ingredient. And reading accounts of others in more recent years. Its a different focus and skill set. As if the near past is over rated. What is way more important is what is happening right now -- not five minutes ago. And not being conditioned by the near-past. Thus the affinity with artists and musicians amongst other creative types. The boundaries and prison of the past gone, or diminished. But can you maintain -- function in the world while in the moment -- was a frequent query if not retort current in those those days. So enlightenment, Alzheimers and being experienced -- all have siimilar characteristics of ST memory (or conditioning) loss / liberation. And the challenge of maintaining.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment, Narcissism, and the Abuser Personality
Springboarding off of an earlier discussion: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip One of my teachers once said (and should have listened to his own advice IMO): Listen to what people say, but watch what they DO. Mr. Enlightened Guy: Some teacher. you have some knack for picking them, huh? first it was the Maharishi who was fucked up, according to you, Next its Rama, who was fucked up, according to you, and you don't like me either-- not that I am a teacher, but it seems unless someone believes exactly the things you do, and lives the way you do, you have big issues with them. Sounds like a case of the whole world is crazy, except Barry. How infantile of you. Let's examine this. Who is it exactly, in the last couple of days, who has been acting infantile? Who is it that, when his holy word was questioned -- first about his claim that no one had ever stood up to Maha- rishi (a complete untruth), and second, when he claimed to know how heaven was decorated -- flew into what appears to many people on this forum as an uncontrollable rage and proceeded to claim that one of his critics was gay and that another was crazy and needed medication? Who basically LOST IT HEAVILY in public and turned abusive? And who, today, is now spouting more pseudo- enlightened bullshit AS IF NOTHING HAD HAPPENED, and expects people to react to his pseudo-enlightened bullshit as if he were really enlightened? There are many names for this. Chronic Abuser Syndrome is one of them. It's the same phenomenon that allows someone lost in narcissism to beat the crap out of his wife and kids one day, and expect them to love him the next. The chronic abuser expects them to forgive and forget, because he HAS forgotten; he honestly can't really *remember* being abusive. But he was. Now apply this syndrome to spiritual teachers you have known and worked with. Have any of them had the occasional problem with flying into rages and ripping someone (possibly even you) a new asshole, and then, often only minutes later, expected you to not only forgive them, but to place your entire future spiritual life in their hands and trust them without question? In my opinion, this is the cycle that our resident Mr. Enlightened Guy is caught in. He really doesn't seem to be able to *remember* embarrassing himself thoroughly the day before. He can't seem to recall that not only did only one person on this forum fall for his gay-baiting troll, *all* others who replied soundly criticized him for pulling it. He can't seem to recall having insulted Sal and do.rflex and others on this forum for having committed the Ultimate Sin -- not taking him as seriously as he takes himself. And now he expects everyone else's memory to be as faulty and as selective as his own. He starts a new day spouting pseudo-enlightened bullshit *as if no one here has any memory of yesterday*, and how abusive and out of control he was then. He expects them to start over and pretend that yesterday never existed, just as he has. (And just as he did when he threw a snit-fit and stalked off the forum some months ago, only to appear a little later with a new user ID, as if *that* could make his embarrassing past go away.) And, mark my words, this new, improved Mr. Enlight- ened Guy ain't gonna last. Within a few more posts, possibly even today, he's going to be back in the abuse cycle again. It'll start the moment someone challenges his holy word, and fails to treat him like the teacher he has delusions of being, while claiming the opposite. He'll lash out at me, or at Sal, or at someone else here, and in his mind that will be the mysterious and unfathomable and unchallengeable workings of enlightenment. And then later he'll spout some more pseudo-enlightened bullshit he picked up from a comic book about enlightenment, and he'll expect everyone here to forget the abuse part of the cycle just as thoroughly as he has. And if they don't, the abuse will start over again. Mr. Enlightened Guy is right about one thing. I had somewhat questionable taste in spiritual teachers. Like many others, I allowed them both to pull this chronic abuser shit for many years until I caught on to it, and stopped being a codependent partici- pant in it through my acceptance of the abuse. I'm certainly not going to enter into a similar code- pendant relationship with another asshole with a narcissism complex out the yin-yang who wants to play abuse games so that people will focus on him. At *least* Maharishi and Rama could talk the talk. Mr. Enlightened Guy can't even do that. Using one's own out-of-control narcissism as an excuse to abuse others isn't enlightenment in my book; it's insanity.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment according to Lee Lozowick
The magazine What Is Enlightenment? interviewed Lee Lozowick in 1995 and published it here: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/lozowick.html In this excerpt, Lozowick explains his notion of enlighenment: [begin excerpt] WIE: From your own experience, what is enlightenment? LL: It's an unflagging, not necessarily always willing, but an unflagging, irrevocable commitment to serve what I call the great process of divine evolution. Basically that's God, and we articulate what the process of God is in a very complex way. But enlightenment is an unflagging and irrevocable slavery to serving that which is God, the divine, in whatever way the divine deems is service. [end excerpt] Two things I like in this explanation are its humility and how the human and the divine are bound together. I do take issue with his use of the word slavery. Commitment to the divine feels like the opposite of slavery to me, because slavery is unwilling bondage. My bond with the divine is a willing surrender and a partnership. Surrender also is volitional as opposed to slavery which is forced. He apparently felt pushed into his commitment, where I feel like I am growing into mine. Besides that difference about wording, I like what he has to say in his interview. I first learned about him 4 years ago when I read his book The Alchemy of Love and Sex, which I consider to be the best sex advice I'd ever read. No pictures, by the way. Although it's my personal favorite, not one of the five or so men I lent it to agreed. Oh well.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enlightenment according to Lee Lozowick
On Apr 16, 2008, at 1:38 PM, ispiritkin wrote: I do take issue with his use of the word slavery. Commitment to the divine feels like the opposite of slavery to me, because slavery is unwilling bondage. My bond with the divine is a willing surrender and a partnership. Surrender also is volitional as opposed to slavery which is forced. He apparently felt pushed into his commitment, where I feel like I am growing into mine. I think it was the Western tantric Aleister Crowley who coined the phrase the slave-gods referring to the gods of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Given what these religions require of their adherents I always found it quite accurate and spot on (of course it's often not something popular to point out...). Not finding the idea of such an imaginary friend really all that helpful in my own life, I found this description of enlightenment quite bizarre and also way off. Why would I need an imaginary friend, a god, to be enlightened? What about 'non-divine evolution'? Do the non-divine not evolve?
[FairfieldLife] Enlightenment
I need a review. I just can't really remember how the seven states of consciousness worked and a brief googling didn' get me much other than this: http://www.tmbulletin.com/volume6/TMBulletinV6I05.htm Maharishi: Right from the beginning, higher states of consciousness has meant seven states of consciousness. There is sleeping, dreaming, waking, and Transcendental Consciousnessthe fourth state of consciousness. Then there is Cosmic Consciousnessthe fifth state of consciousness. Cosmic means the fourth state, Transcendental Consciousness, along with the other three, because all the other three are influenced by the experience of the fourth state of consciousness. Then comes God Consciousness, which is a very special state of consciousness where the supreme quality of relativity is brought into consideration. Of course Unity is very clear. Unity is the unity of all diversity. All diversity means two valuesall values of knowledge and all values of actionall diverse values completely unified. So it is a holistic valueUnity. And MMY on enlightenment: http://www.tmscotland.org/enlightenment.html Enlightenment is the normal, natural state of health for the body and mind. It results from the full development of consciousness and depends upon the perfect and harmonious functioning of every part of the body and nervous system. When one is using the full potential of the mind and body in this way, every thought and action is spontaneously correct and life-supporting. This is life free from suffering, life lived in its full stature and significance. The goal of the Transcendental Meditation Technique is the state of enlightenment. This means we experience that inner calmness, that quiet state of least excitation, even when we are dynamically busy. And from another TM site: http://www.globalcountry.org.uk/news.php?f=uk20021125n_breakthrough_research_on.htmy=2002cat=n A new breakthrough study is the first to begin to quantify the fifth state of consciousness - Enlightenment or Cosmic Consciousness - using a new Integration Scale. So, is enlightenment according to TM theory cosmic consciousness? what are the characteristics of CC? Where does the ability to mess with the laws of physics come in? I.e., the ability to fly, be invisible, etc. I get unity consciousness, but not god consciousness. Can anyone give me a quick review? Also, I remember a lot of talking about bliss consciousness. Where does that fit in the seven states?
