Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
On Nov 13, 2005, at 11:49 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote: Why does the TM-org rabidly criticise Deepak Chopra and Sri Sri. Ravishankar.?? TM-governors claim MMY called him Sugar- Caned poison.?? Duh. One word: competition. Falling mantra sales doesn't make M. happy. Isn't that obvious? Of course, it's also easy to rationalize it as some sort of cosmic scenario. I have NEVER heard anyone claim that MMY ever said anything ill about Chopra. I assumed he was talking about SSRS. Perhaps Jason can clarify who this comment was about, Chopra or SSRS? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank God we all know that now. Spending all that time with MMY from the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort of impact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON. --- Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, he was talking about SSRS. Re-Certified TM-governor Frank Lotz mentioned it. Here below From: frank lotz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:37:46 +0100 (CET) The Bigger Picture - Sri Sri. RaviShankar Maharishis commentary on ravi, the so called shankar: Sugar caned poison. He is from my point of view a bad imitator of our Divine Master His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, despite of all his (ravis) so called success, only superficial, not much lasting influence! Lets take recourse to Maharishis Vedic Tradition, whether you call me fanatic or not, thats the point! Râm Frank Lotz From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 06:02:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) I assumed he was talking about SSRS. Perhaps Jason can clarify who this comment was about, Chopra or SSRS? - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:20 AM, Peter wrote:Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank God we all know that now. Spending all that time with MMY from the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort of impact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, "MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON." I don't think that's the point. The point is it shows the extreme jealousy of M. who obviously can't deal with the loss of his movement to SSRS's now larger and more vital movement...so he puts SSRS down to his few remaining students. Not surprising, but not the greatest thing one would want to hear.Kinda like McDonald's bitching about Burger King. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
Hey man, remember, I have nothing to do with this. Some Charlie who calls himself re-certified governor, says it came from Maharishi himself. Some months back, some Charlie misunderstood my post and gave me a bloody nose with his insultomatic, the incident had made me nervous ever since. From: "Peter" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:20:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank Godwe all know that now. Spending all that time with MMYfrom the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort ofimpact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, "MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON." Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
No problems Jason. I was reacting more to the knee-jerk comment by a TB who blindly follows any dictate of an authority figure. --- Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey man, remember, I have nothing to do with this. Some Charlie who calls himself re-certified governor, says it came from Maharishi himself. Some months back, some Charlie misunderstood my post and gave me a bloody nose with his insultomatic, the incident had made me nervous ever since. From: Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:20:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank God we all know that now. Spending all that time with MMY from the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort of impact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON. - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:20 AM, Peter wrote: Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank God we all know that now. Spending all that time with MMY from the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort of impact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON. I don't think that's the point. The point is it shows the extreme jealousy of M. who obviously can't deal with the loss of his movement to SSRS's now larger and more vital movement...so he puts SSRS down to his few remaining students. Not surprising, but not the greatest thing one would want to hear. For the record, the sweet poison warning goes at least as far back as 1998 and referred specifically to a hyperventilation-type breathing technique Shankar taught (called, I believe, Sudarshan Kriya). According to someone on alt.m.t who had spent time in Shankar's ashram in 1978, Shankar had only broken with the TMO fairly recently at the time the person was posting in 1994. He was said then not to be interested in starting a movement (and was known as Pundit Ravi Shankar; Sri Sri apparently came later). The point being that at the time MMY issued the sweet poison warning, probably around 1994, the TMO was still in full swing, and Shankar apparently did not pose any kind of major threat in terms of even starting a movement of his own, let alone one that could compete with the TMO. Perhaps MMY foresaw that he would do so, but that doesn't appear to have been evident at the time. In any case, contrary to Vaj's suggestion, the sweet poison warning about the hyperventilation technique is hardly a recent development. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:20 AM, Peter wrote: Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank God we all know that now. Spending all that time with MMY from the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort of impact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON. I don't think that's the point. The point is it shows the extreme jealousy of M. who obviously can't deal with the loss of his movement to SSRS's now larger and more vital movement...so he puts SSRS down to his few remaining students. Not surprising, but not the greatest thing one would want to hear. Kinda like McDonald's bitching about Burger King. The only difference is that the president of McDonalds and the president of Burger King are actually great friends and talk to each other privately. __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:20 AM, Peter wrote: Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank God we all know that now. Spending all that time with MMY from the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort of impact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON. I don't think that's the point. The point is it shows the extreme jealousy of M. who obviously can't deal with the loss of his movement to SSRS's now larger and more vital movement...so he puts SSRS down to his few remaining students. Not surprising, but not the greatest thing one would want to hear. For the record, the sweet poison warning goes at least as far back as 1998 and referred specifically to a hyperventilation-type breathing technique Shankar taught (called, I believe, Sudarshan Kriya). According to someone on alt.m.t who had spent time in Shankar's ashram in 1978, Shankar had only broken with the TMO fairly recently at the time the person was posting in 1994. He was said then not to be interested in starting a movement (and was known as Pundit Ravi Shankar; Sri Sri apparently came later). The point being that at the time MMY issued the sweet poison warning, probably around 1994, the TMO was still in full swing, and Shankar apparently did not pose any kind of major threat in terms of even starting a movement of his own, let alone one that could compete with the TMO. Perhaps MMY foresaw that he would do so, but that doesn't appear to have been evident at the time. In any case, contrary to Vaj's suggestion, the sweet poison warning about the hyperventilation technique is hardly a recent development. Well, a warning about a technique isn't the same as referring to SSRS himself as sweet poison, which was what I was questioning. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
On Nov 14, 2005, at 9:36 AM, sparaig wrote: Well, a warning about a technique isn't the same as referring to SSRS himself as sweet poison, which was what I was questioning. As was I, but that might not have been obvious to a careless reader.Since none of this is dated or given a clear reference it's hard to tell what the actual comment was.M. has certainly had many comments leveled against him by other gurus as well, so this ain't real surprising behavior in the spiritual supermarket. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 9:36 AM, sparaig wrote: Well, a warning about a technique isn't the same as referring to SSRS himself as sweet poison, which was what I was questioning. As was I, but that might not have been obvious to a careless reader. For reference, in case anyone wants to read what Vaj said more carefully: -- On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:20 AM, Peter wrote: Yes, yes, it's all so true. SSRS is a fraud. Thank God we all know that now. Spending all that time with MMY from the age of 12 onwards must have had some sort of impact on him. IT IS SO TRUE THAT, MEDITATORS SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR SWEET POISON. [Vaj wrote:] I don't think that's the point. The point is it shows the extreme jealousy of M. who obviously can't deal with the loss of his movement to SSRS's now larger and more vital movement...so he puts SSRS down to his few remaining students. Not surprising, but not the greatest thing one would want to hear. Kinda like McDonald's bitching about Burger King. - Since none of this is dated or given a clear reference it's hard to tell what the actual comment was. The actual comment, referring to the hyperventilation technique, was sweet poison, and we know it was made prior to 1998, i.e., well before the TMO could be said to have been lost to Shankar's now larger and more vital movement or that it was a putdown of Shankar by MMY to MMY's few remaining students. As noted, Shankar had broken with the TMO sometime not long prior to 1994, so the sweet poison warning would have had to have been issued at some point in between then and 1998. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
On Nov 14, 2005, at 10:13 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 9:36 AM, sparaig wrote: Well, a warning about a technique isn't the same as referring to SSRS himself as sweet poison, which was what I was questioning. As was I, but that might not have been obvious to a careless reader. For reference, in case anyone wants to read what Vaj said more carefully: snipActually here's what I said:"I assumed he was talking about SSRS. Perhaps Jason can clarify whothis comment was about, Chopra or SSRS?"Please try to read more carefully before commenting (or trying to cause arguments/trouble) Judy.Prems,Vaj To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As noted, Shankar had broken with the TMO sometime not long prior to 1994, so the sweet poison warning would have had to have been issued at some point in between then and 1998. 1993 at the DC course. L B S Born in 1956 in Papanasam, India, His Holiness Sri Sri Ravi Shankar studied with many renowned spiritual masters and became a scholar of Vedic Literature. By the age of seventeen, he obtained an Advanced Degree in Modern Physics. In 1982, His Holiness Sri Sri Ravi Shankar founded the Art of Living Foundation http://www.artofliving.org/founder.html In 1982, he started the Art of Living Foundation, a United Nations NGO and introduced to the world 'Sudarshan Kriya technique'a unique breathing process, which removes stress and negative toxins from the body by rejuvenating each and every cell. The Foundation aims at fostering health at every conceivable human level-mental, physical, emotional as well as spiritual. http://www.webindia123.com/personal/religious/sriravi.htm I took his basic course with him in 1994 or 95. By then, it was quite a mature movement -- in that some friends had been to india with him 4-5 years or more previously, lots of people on courses, including many former initiators, had been with him for a long time -- 6,7 years + Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 10:13 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 9:36 AM, sparaig wrote: Well, a warning about a technique isn't the same as referring to SSRS himself as sweet poison, which was what I was questioning. As was I, but that might not have been obvious to a careless reader. For reference, in case anyone wants to read what Vaj said more carefully: snip Actually here's what I said: Actually I quoted exactly what you said, just apparently from a different post than you were thinking of, although you gave no indication of which one you were referring to. I assumed he was talking about SSRS. Perhaps Jason can clarify who this comment was about, Chopra or SSRS? Please try to read more carefully before commenting (or trying to cause arguments/trouble) Judy. What makes you think I was trying to cause arguments or trouble, Vaj? Do the facts represent trouble as far as you're concerned? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hagen J. Holtz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if you may consider me as somehow arrogant, but I allow myself to tell you that I would like to open your eyes a little bit now. First of all I have already been an independent mind before, while and after having started with TM. My master is my master but he is not my mental guardian or nurse. I am a free man and not a mental slave. This as first preliminary vedic ideal to be mentioned and herewith postulated. Instead of asking, where Maharishi has been stating this or that the question would be much more intelligently raised by asking, how Maharishi would probably react in case you challenged his intellect by some tricky problematics. You may remember the commentary on the Bhagavadgita, where Maharishi described the necessity to challenge one's master in order to make him set free more knowledge. (By the way this challenge according to my opinion is not being taking place sufficiently by his disciples). Now after this introductory citation I come back to the main general point by whose solution your fundamental questioning of authority makes most of the consecutive doubtfully interposed questions at least formally obsolete. I myself took the opportunity to challenge Maharishi several times in my life in direct contact, in order to get the validation of that answer, which I have already been giving to myself through mere setting free of inherent CI (= Creative Intelligence). This is the self-evident purpose and result of this spiritual practice (self-unfolding in double sense of the word). In one case I brought my challenge to the peak point, because I dared to doubt about an old-established model even, which Maharishi had launched as one of his most fundamental ones. The reaction of the master gave me the proof that it was worth to herald him at such high esteem, because his answer was clear, modest and onepointed; I told him that the bubble-diagram must be wrong, because transcending according to the law of irreversability of processes in nature dictates the mind to walk in one direction only, and that is from Atman (point value of inifinity = smaller than the smallest) to Brahman (expanded value of infinity = bigger than the biggest). In fact smaller than the smallest is essentially the same as bigger than the biggest. This is the only reason, why the mind is enabled to transcend, that is to say just by rescuing itself in the most expanded value in order to be able to come back to the starting point of all manífestation. So I said to Maharishi, Transcending is a process of constant engrossment of the mantra until it reaches its most expanded value and such the mind alone can find back to its source. Without hesitation Maharishi agreed. It was in late summer 1979 at the Golden Hall at Seelisberg-Switzerland. He literrally said to me in presence of the audience: You are absolutely right in what you say. We just held this model as a working model for practical reasons only. So thinking by yourself is not only allowed but vital necessary, as already the great philosopher Immanuel Kant found out. His maxims of human thinking (= emancipation) were: 1. Think ! 2. Think by yourself ! 3. Think consecutively ! 4. Think up to the end ! Very often I have to doubt, whether meditators - in their tendency to regressive development - have ever come beyond stage 2. Whereas the majority of the population at average moves at least somwhere in between stage 2 and 3. A genuine spiritual seeker is expetced to range somewhere between thinking level 3 and 4. Maharishi has never taught to surrender in a non-critical manner. This are old-fashioned concepts out of the moth's chest of topsy-turby theories on Yoga, where constantly cause and effect got fatalistically turned upside down (best example: concentration is the input of meditation even though it is the output of the interaction of the three gunas in the mind (= samyama, which leads to the state of ekagrata parinama or constant flow of the mind in one thought (= what is meant by the real meaning of the word concentration). And this again is identical with the state of at least savikalpa-samadhi). Samadhi is by the way also a constant process and not a static state, the same way as diving is always going along with some effort to be able to stay underneath the surface and not a static notion, staying at one spot without further invested dynamics. Thank you for your comments, Hagen. What you have shared often seems to be missing in the various discussions here regarding Maharishi; that we should always 'seek' intelligently and vigorously, asking and challenging along the way. I agree with your assessment that this doesn't occur enough with Maharishi, and yet it is *absolutely vital* if the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
Yes, he was talking about SSRS. Re-Certified TM-governor Frank Lotz mentioned it. Here below From: "frank lotz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:37:46 +0100 (CET) The Bigger Picture - Sri Sri. RaviShankar Maharishis commentary on "ravi", the so called shankar": "Sugar caned poison". He is from my point of view a bad imitator of our Divine Master His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, despite of all his (ravis") so called success, only superficial, not much lasting influence! Lets take recourse to Maharishis Vedic Tradition, whether you call me fanatic or not, thats the point! Râm Frank Lotz From: "Vaj" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 06:02:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) I assumed he was talking about SSRS. Perhaps Jason can clarify whothis comment was about, Chopra or SSRS? Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 13, 2005, at 11:49 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote: Why does the TM-org rabidly criticise Deepak Chopra and Sri Sri. Ravishankar.?? TM-governors claim MMY called him Sugar- Caned poison.?? Duh. One word: competition. Falling mantra sales doesn't make M. happy. Isn't that obvious? Of course, it's also easy to rationalize it as some sort of cosmic scenario. I have NEVER heard anyone claim that MMY ever said anything ill about Chopra. I assumed he was talking about SSRS. Perhaps Jason can clarify who this comment was about, Chopra or SSRS? I tend to doubt that MMY would say anything good or bad about SSRS either. Paying attention to someone gives them strength afterall. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, he was talking about SSRS. Re-Certified TM-governor Frank Lotz mentioned it. Here below From: frank lotz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:37:46 +0100 (CET) The Bigger Picture - Sri Sri. RaviShankar Maharishis commentary on ravi, the so called shankar: Sugar caned poison. He is from my point of view a bad imitator of our Divine Master His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, despite of all his (ravis) so called success, only superficial, not much lasting influence! Lets take recourse to Maharishis Vedic Tradition, whether you call me fanatic or not, that's the point! Râm Frank Lotz Perhaps he DID say that about SSRS. It seems less-than worthwhile to bother responding to questions about former students, but o well. From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 06:02:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) I assumed he was talking about SSRS. Perhaps Jason can clarify who this comment was about, Chopra or SSRS? - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 14, 2005, at 9:36 AM, sparaig wrote: Well, a warning about a technique isn't the same as referring to SSRS himself as sweet poison, which was what I was questioning. As was I, but that might not have been obvious to a careless reader. Since none of this is dated or given a clear reference it's hard to tell what the actual comment was. M. has certainly had many comments leveled against him by other gurus as well, so this ain't real surprising behavior in the spiritual supermarket. Sure. I was just wondering at the claim since MMY has carefully refrained, as far as I know, from criticizing Chopra. If he won't criticize Chopra who was far closer to him emotionally than SSRS ever was, as far as I know, it seemed very strange that he would criticize SSRS. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
on 11/14/05 2:34 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure. I was just wondering at the claim since MMY has carefully refrained, as far as I know, from criticizing Chopra. If he won't criticize Chopra who was far closer to him emotionally than SSRS ever was, as far as I know, How could you have any idea which of them was closer to him emotionally? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure. I was just wondering at the claim since MMY has carefully refrained, as far as I know, from criticizing Chopra. If he won't criticize Chopra who was far closer to him emotionally than SSRS ever was, as far as I know, it seemed very strange that he would criticize SSRS. I would see MMY and SSRS as having a much closer connection than MMY and Chopra. SSRS sees MMY as his guru. MMY saw SSRS when he was 12 when he visited a Brahmin school in India. MMY asked SSRS parents to have him stay with him. They agreed and SSRS was with MMY running the TMO in India for close to 20 years. SSRS has a room for MMY in his ashram in south India always ready for him. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11/14/05 2:34 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure. I was just wondering at the claim since MMY has carefully refrained, as far as I know, from criticizing Chopra. If he won't criticize Chopra who was far closer to him emotionally than SSRS ever was, as far as I know, How could you have any idea which of them was closer to him emotionally? Certainly, Chopra was far more visible in his interactions with Chopra for a good bit longer also. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
on 11/14/05 11:10 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11/14/05 2:34 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure. I was just wondering at the claim since MMY has carefully refrained, as far as I know, from criticizing Chopra. If he won't criticize Chopra who was far closer to him emotionally than SSRS ever was, as far as I know, How could you have any idea which of them was closer to him emotionally? Certainly, Chopra was far more visible in his interactions with Chopra for a good bit longer also. Visible to you, but you don't know the full history of either of them. Also, public visibility does not necessarily equate with closeness of relationship. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
I completely disagree with your analys simply because TM isn't necessary repetition at all. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hagen J. Holtz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the guy MMY was propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the details of that whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip to India during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the Westerners. So Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began experimenting on half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this account from one of them). This seems to be mere speculation without argumentative basis. It is the same way typically mystifying circumstances as you are claiming them instead of as to have been the cause of Maharishi's decision. The Siddhis are the logic consequence out of TM. Look into the Samyama-principle: Dharana (fixing), dhyana (gliding) and samadhi (landing). These three parameters (always) form the natural movement of the mind. The result is concentrating (ekagrata parinama). In TM you start with fixing the mantra in a repetitive manner. The emphasis is on dharana. Due to the three-guna principle the result is samadhi. In the siddhis the fixing aspect is being put into the back-ground. Emphasis is on dhyana (coming back to the simplest form of awareness -= siddhi- instruction). By this you pass through samadhi and end up in dharana (fixation = manifestation). This is pure applicable science of mind. The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect came out when Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign in the UK in which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you can get one of your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon after the sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It was still Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded the research. Yes you think but you don't know it. And anyhow it would not have made any difference: In Science either theory precedes experience or vice versa. This is nothing unusual. Important is that later on theory and practice or the other way round have to match this or that way. In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was bandied about before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent countless hours discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was foisted on him by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. Was there any harm in it ? He was tickled pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to get 10% of the world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't think this particular point has much to do with the failure of the movement. For sure he was looking for some more efficient formula. But this was just for principle reasons and has nothing to do with how many people were meant to be practicing TM. The failure of the movement is by the way its present success. 99% of the TM-Teachers all over the world have been leaving the movement. Many of them are still teaching. That is, what Maharishi wanted. Because it secured that the secret agents in the movement have no access anymore to destroy the movement. Their assumed success of having been destroying now had become a success for Maharishi to have made so many minds become independent, not anymore bound to the master. This is the lesson of freedom Maharishi taught to us. He is always one step ahead. The ideal of 10,000 or so at one place can grow now from the very grass root level. Once it has been established from there it will never be destroyable anymore. Maharishi 1979 in Seelisberg: I have to play a global game, which you may not understand, but which will prevent the movement from ultimate destruction. I have to keep the appearance of the movement ridiculous. Those who are able to think from the heart will yet join and be with us. It is now up to us to organize and realize this ideal step by step. Although the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable folks who were beginning to take it seriously. What should these folks have been taking more serious than the siddhis and scientific research on TM ? All this sounds a bit talkative from your end. In order to reach Kaivalya even the Karma Mimamsa Sutras and the Vedanta Sutras have to be practiced according to the Samyama-Principle. Only under these circumstances the Siddhis could unfold to full extent anyhow. Thanks Rick, for the History lesson, I needed it. At any rate, it really supports my contention that MMY has rested the entire welfare of the TMorg's success on these bogus studies!! There were no bogus studies, there were only bogus
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
Yes you are one of those "progressive" ones, who
have understood all andset off for free flight in mere wide and
infinitespace:-). I wish and prayfor you that you are not ending up
in mere emptiness !
- Original Message -
From: "sparaig" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:31
AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the
sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of
spinach...)
I completely disagree with your analys simply because TM isn't
necessary repetition at all. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hagen
J. Holtz" [EMAIL PROTECTED]...
wrote:The way I heard the
story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the guy MMY
was propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin
to keep the details of that whole
mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip to
India during the Fiuggi course, that he offer
something more to the Westerners. So
Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began
experimenting on half a dozen of the M-group
types around him (I got this account from one
of them). This seems to be mere
speculation without argumentative basis. It is the same
way typically mystifying circumstances as you are claiming them instead
of as "to have been the cause of Maharishi's decision".
The Siddhis are the logic consequence out of TM. Look into the
Samyama-principle: Dharana ("fixing"), dhyana ("gliding") and
samadhi ("landing"). These three parameters (always) form
the natural movement of the mind. The result is
"concentrating" (ekagrata parinama). In TM you start with
fixing the mantra in a repetitive manner. The emphasis is on dharana.
Due to the three-guna principle the result is samadhi. In the
siddhis the fixing aspect is being put into the
back-ground. Emphasis is on dhyana ("coming back to the
simplest form of awareness" -= siddhi- instruction). By
this you pass through samadhi and end up in dharana (fixation =
manifestation). This is pure applicable science of mind. The sidhis
didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect came out
when Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was
a campaign in the UK in
which one of the slogans was "you can be one of the 99 if you
can get one of your
friends to be the one." Square root of 1% came out soon
after the sidhis, and Domash or
Hagelin was physicist at that point. It was
still Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the
theory preceded the research. Yes you
think but you don't know it. And anyhow it would not have made any
difference: In Science either theory precedes experience or vice
versa. This is nothing unusual. Important is that later on
theory and practice or the other way round have to match
this or that way. In other words, the theory of 1% or
square root of 1% was bandied about
before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi
spent countless hours
discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was
foisted on him by cunning physicists. As
always, he was calling the shots. Was there any harm in it
? He was
tickled pink to get a theory that would absolve him
from having to get 10% of the
world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't
think this particular
point has much to do with the failure of the movement. For
sure he was looking for some more efficient formula. But this was just
for principle reasons and has nothing to do with how many people
were meant to be practicing TM.
The failure of the movement is by the way its present success. 99% of
the TM-Teachers all over the world have been leaving the movement.
Many of them are still teaching. That is, what Maharishi
wanted. Because it secured that the secret agents in the
movement have no access anymore to destroy the movement.
Their assumed success of having been destroying now had become a
success for Maharishi to have made so many minds become
independent, not anymore bound to the master. This is the lesson of
freedom Maharishi taught to us. He is always one step
ahead. The ideal of 10,000 or so at one place can grow
now from the very grass root level. Once it has been
established from there it will never be destroyable
anymore. Maharishi 1979 in Seelisberg: "I have to play a global game,
which you may not understand, but which will prevent the movement
from ultimate destruction. I have to keep the appearance
of the movement ridiculous. Those who are able to think
from the heart will yet join and be with us." It is now
up to us to organize and realize this ideal step by step.
Although the advent of the
sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable folks
who were beginning to take it
seriously. What should these folks have been
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
Someone else wrote it, Vajranatha. Some Charlie who rarely posts
---OriginalMessage--
From: "Vaj" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:47:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote:
The Siddhis are the logic consequence out of TM. Look into the Samyama-principle: Dharana ("fixing"), dhyana ("gliding") and samadhi ("landing"). These three parameters (always)form the naturalmovement of the mind. The result is "concentrating" (ekagrata parinama). In TM you start with fixing the mantra in a repetitive manner. The emphasis is on dharana. Due to the three-guna principle the result is samadhi. In the siddhis the fixing aspect is being put into the back-ground. Emphasis is on dhyana ("coming back to the simplest form of awareness" -= siddhi-instruction). By this you pass through samadhi and end up in dharana (fixation = manifestation). This is pure applicable science of mind.
Siddhis, attainment of powers of all kinds, is a great
temptation in the life of an initiate. The danger in the pursuit of
siddhis is twofold:
1. At the slightest appearance of some hunch or some prediction coming through, and so forth, one begins to imagine himself as a siddha, an adept.
2. One becomes tied down to the desires for such powers and dreams of subtle ego. One might say, "Oh, if only 1 had the power to read others' minds I could help many more students." But deep inside the sub-conscious, there lurks the impurity which would not help the students but simply invade the privacy of their minds and derive from these invasions certain vicarious pleasures. Or one thinks, "If only 1 could predict which horse would win the lottery I could help my guru financially." One day I asked Swamiji,
"Why do you have to ask for funds! Why do you not simply buy a lottery ticket on a horse you know would win?" He told me quite sternly, "Don't you even think of that. Work honestly with your body. Work honestly to pay your karma and do not look or such easy ways out."
If one finds that special experiences or powers are coming one's way, the injunction is to conceal them carefully and not make your meditation group into a gossip club, every one vying with each other, everyone saying, "wait till you hear my experience!" The siddhis are not in fact any kind of attainments in the sense that they are additions to one's personality. According to the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, they are simply the unblocking of power. As one advances on the path of meditation one begins to sense the presence of these faculties within. There is a great temptation to sit by the wayside watching this beautiful scenery of siddhis and if one does not resist, the path and the goal are forgotten. The recent trend in certain meditation circles to popularize siddhis and to sell them for a certain fee, is highly frowned upon by the masters of the Himalayas.
-Pundit Usharbudh Arya, lineal holder of Patanjali YS tradition and expert on the practice and commentaries.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote: The Siddhis are the logic consequence out of TM. Look into the Samyama-principle: Dharana (fixing), dhyana (gliding) and samadhi (landing). These three parameters (always) form the natural movement of the mind. The result is concentrating (ekagrata parinama). In TM you start with fixing the mantra in a repetitive manner. The emphasis is on dharana. Due to the three-guna principle the result is samadhi. In the siddhis the fixing aspect is being put into the back-ground. Emphasis is on dhyana (coming back to the simplest form of awareness -= siddhi- instruction). By this you pass through samadhi and end up in dharana (fixation = manifestation). This is pure applicable science of mind. Siddhis, attainment of powers of all kinds, is a great temptation in the life of an initiate. The danger in the pursuit of siddhis is twofold: 1. At the slightest appearance of some hunch or some prediction coming through, and so forth, one begins to imagine himself as a siddha, an adept. 2. One becomes tied down to the desires for such powers and dreams of subtle ego. One might say, Oh, if only 1 had the power to read others' minds I could help many more students. But deep inside the sub-conscious, there lurks the impurity which would not help the students but simply invade the privacy of their minds and derive from these invasions certain vicarious pleasures. Or one thinks, If only 1 could predict which horse would win the lottery I could help my guru financially. One day I asked Swamiji, Why do you have to ask for funds! Why do you not simply buy a lottery ticket on a horse you know would win? He told me quite sternly, Don't you even think of that. Work honestly with your body. Work honestly to pay your karma and do not look or such easy ways out. If one finds that special experiences or powers are coming one's way, the injunction is to conceal them carefully and not make your meditation group into a gossip club, every one vying with each other, everyone saying, wait till you hear my experience! The siddhis are not in fact any kind of attainments in the sense that they are additions to one's personality. According to the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, they are simply the unblocking of power. As one advances on the path of meditation one begins to sense the presence of these faculties within. There is a great temptation to sit by the wayside watching this beautiful scenery of siddhis and if one does not resist, the path and the goal are forgotten. The recent trend in certain meditation circles to popularize siddhis and to sell them for a certain fee, is highly frowned upon by the masters of the Himalayas. -Pundit Usharbudh Arya, lineal holder of Patanjali YS tradition and expert on the practice and commentaries. And the Masters of the Himalayas, is so right. I had a lot of Sidhi experiences as a child and grown-up, living in silence in the forest - Years before I learned TM. And after I stopped with the TM-Sidhi-techniques, they are coming back in a natural way. All the expectations following the TM-Sidhi-teqniques - encouraged by MMY, was not good at all, from my point of view. Ingegerd Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
The Himalayan masters have outdated ideas. Just a single guy manages to float in the air,.. John Hagelin will be the next president of United States of America. ---OriginalMessage-- From: "Ingegerd" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:09:38 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) And the Masters of the Himalayas, is so right. I had a lot of "Sidhi experiences" as a child and grown-up, living in silence in the forest - Years before I learned TM. And after I stopped with the TM-Sidhi-techniques, they are coming back in a natural way. All the expectations following the TM-Sidhi-teqniques - encouraged by MMY, was not good at all, from my point of view. Ingegerd Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Himalayan masters have outdated ideas. Just a single guy manages to float in the air,.. John Hagelin will be the next president of United States of America. And if just one monkey flies out my ass, I'll be on Letterman. John and I both are s close. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) on 11/13/05 11:19 AM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Himalayan masters have outdated ideas. Just a single guy manages to float in the air,.. John Hagelin will be the next president of United States of America. No, the fundamentalist Christians, who are a powerful voting block in this country, would go bananas and oppose him violently if necessary. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11/13/05 11:23 AM, akasha_108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Himalayan masters have outdated ideas. Just a single guy manages to float in the air,.. John Hagelin will be the next president of United States of America. And if just one monkey flies out my ass, I'll be on Letterman. I don't know. Do you think they'd let you demonstrate that on network TV? With Dave? Sure. He'd probably stage on the roof of the Ed Sullivan Theatre (as he does a number of things) and have me aim at windows in buildings across the street to see if I could hit them. And just think of the ratings if I am also the one guy who levitates. A twofer. John Haiglin would be there for running commentary. The levitation is predicted by my 13d virtual loop, tunneling of quantum worlds string theory. The monkey thing, we are still running some ARIMA models to try to correctly predict that sort of thing. The fact that the monkey is also flying, similtaneously with the emittor, shows the self referral, infinite looping parallelism of the universe. But we need more research dollars. Here is my 800 number. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
I think you are sorely mistaken. I don't think many would even take notice of someone floating in the air. I mean who cares, really? What does it have to do with the bulk of people's lives who are primarily concerned with such mundane things like: *earning a living *paying for food *health insurance *gasoline approaching $3/gallon *an administration trying to screw with Social Security *also trying to rewrite the tax code and screw people out of their mortgage deduction to name a few. Add paying $2500 to learn TM so they can spend the next 35 years trying to float? I don't think so. kh --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11/13/05 11:19 AM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Himalayan masters have outdated ideas. Just a single guy manages to float in the air,.. John Hagelin will be the next president of United States of America. No, the fundamentalist Christians, who are a powerful voting block in this country, would go bananas and oppose him violently if necessary. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
Probably most people wouldn't believe it. There are some amazing magic tricks out there, like guys walking through plate glass windows. People know it's a trick even though they can't imagine how it's done. People would assume the same with levitation, even if were done in their living room. David Blaine (http://www.davidblaine.com) levitates on NYC sidewalks, which freaks people out, but they don't elect him president. on 11/13/05 1:14 PM, Kenny H at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you are sorely mistaken. I don't think many would even take notice of someone floating in the air. I mean who cares, really? What does it have to do with the bulk of people's lives who are primarily concerned with such mundane things like: *earning a living *paying for food *health insurance *gasoline approaching $3/gallon *an administration trying to screw with Social Security *also trying to rewrite the tax code and screw people out of their mortgage deduction to name a few. Add paying $2500 to learn TM so they can spend the next 35 years trying to float? I don't think so. kh Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
Kenny H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *also trying to rewrite the tax code and screw people out of their mortgage deduction And who is getting screwed out of thier mortgage deduction? Under the proposal, the average home owner will maintian their full deductiblity. And those who are unable to deduct it now, because they dont save enough by itemizing will be able to deduct it. Who will lose part of their deduction? The upper third or so on the wealth scale. You seem overly concerned for these poor souls. First, they will retain dudutability up to about the average price home regionally. Thus in California, those with a million dollar home, would, under the proposal, be only be able deduct the mortgage interest equivalent to about a $400-500,000 home. And yet, in balance, a lot of these taax payers are not currently able to deduct for such, because at their incomes the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) kicks in. But under the proposal, AMT will be killed, thus the upper third or tax payers trade part of their mortgage deduction for elimination of the onerous AMT. So don't cry too hard for these upper 1/3 of taxpayers who will be affected. (Which seems odd for you -- to cry for such (mostly Republicans), but I guess its just compassion bubbling out for all of God's creatures.) Their taxes will be pretty much uneffected as the AMT gains will balance out the partial mortgage deducability loss. And the lower 2/3s of tax payers will be generally uneffected -- or will actually gain -- by being able to deduct mortgage interest when they can't now. And the overall effect will be to make housing more affordable. A good thing, yes? What is interesting is your implication that mortgage interest deductions is an entitlement. It is a poor policy economically, having been a huge bonanza of a tax shelter for the rich and has contributed to current housing being out of reach for 85% of potential buyers. An effect will be that less money will be sunk into fancy show-off houses and more into capital investments which will raise productivity and wage rates for all. A good thing, yes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
Maybe to most of what you have written However, I don't consider $350,000+ for an 800-1000 sq. foot 2 br/1 bath bungalow (here in Sacramento) in a lousy neighborhood affordable. Go a few blocks over and the same houses are already at half a million. Go a bit further south towards the Bay Area or east towards Tahoe and you start getting to the $500,000+ range for a small-normal size home, not the estate one would have imagined for this kind of money. Do you know that the cost of --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kenny H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *also trying to rewrite the tax code and screw people out of their mortgage deduction And who is getting screwed out of thier mortgage deduction? Under the proposal, the average home owner will maintian their full deductiblity. And those who are unable to deduct it now, because they dont save enough by itemizing will be able to deduct it. Who will lose part of their deduction? The upper third or so on the wealth scale. You seem overly concerned for these poor souls. First, they will retain dudutability up to about the average price home regionally. Thus in California, those with a million dollar home, would, under the proposal, be only be able deduct the mortgage interest equivalent to about a $400-500,000 home. And yet, in balance, a lot of these taax payers are not currently able to deduct for such, because at their incomes the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) kicks in. But under the proposal, AMT will be killed, thus the upper third or tax payers trade part of their mortgage deduction for elimination of the onerous AMT. So don't cry too hard for these upper 1/3 of taxpayers who will be affected. (Which seems odd for you -- to cry for such (mostly Republicans), but I guess its just compassion bubbling out for all of God's creatures.) Their taxes will be pretty much uneffected as the AMT gains will balance out the partial mortgage deducability loss. And the lower 2/3s of tax payers will be generally uneffected -- or will actually gain -- by being able to deduct mortgage interest when they can't now. And the overall effect will be to make housing more affordable. A good thing, yes? What is interesting is your implication that mortgage interest deductions is an entitlement. It is a poor policy economically, having been a huge bonanza of a tax shelter for the rich and has contributed to current housing being out of reach for 85% of potential buyers. An effect will be that less money will be sunk into fancy show-off houses and more into capital investments which will raise productivity and wage rates for all. A good thing, yes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
I know, California real estate is unreal (literally IMO and is not stable at current levels.) Thats one reason I left the state, having been born, raised, educated and careered there. Housing prices are just in fairyland compared to many other nice areas. And with broadband internet being most everywhere (and soon to be wireless, and literally EVERYWHERE, location is less and less important IMO, particularly if you can make a living not tied physically to a large hub business center.) Compare a $500,000 or million dollar home in SF, San Diego or Sac to one in FF. Its a joke. But the mortgage deduction still applies to the 350k bungalow. The proposals are for it to be partially taken away for the kind of basic $million middle class home close to it. And long run, thats a good thing, it will help bring housing and affordability back into synch. 15% affordibility rates are crazy and unsustainable. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kenny H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe to most of what you have written However, I don't consider $350,000+ for an 800-1000 sq. foot 2 br/1 bath bungalow (here in Sacramento) in a lousy neighborhood affordable. Go a few blocks over and the same houses are already at half a million. Go a bit further south towards the Bay Area or east towards Tahoe and you start getting to the $500,000+ range for a small-normal size home, not the estate one would have imagined for this kind of money. Do you know that the cost of --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kenny H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *also trying to rewrite the tax code and screw people out of their mortgage deduction And who is getting screwed out of thier mortgage deduction? Under the proposal, the average home owner will maintian their full deductiblity. And those who are unable to deduct it now, because they dont save enough by itemizing will be able to deduct it. Who will lose part of their deduction? The upper third or so on the wealth scale. You seem overly concerned for these poor souls. First, they will retain dudutability up to about the average price home regionally. Thus in California, those with a million dollar home, would, under the proposal, be only be able deduct the mortgage interest equivalent to about a $400-500,000 home. And yet, in balance, a lot of these taax payers are not currently able to deduct for such, because at their incomes the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) kicks in. But under the proposal, AMT will be killed, thus the upper third or tax payers trade part of their mortgage deduction for elimination of the onerous AMT. So don't cry too hard for these upper 1/3 of taxpayers who will be affected. (Which seems odd for you -- to cry for such (mostly Republicans), but I guess its just compassion bubbling out for all of God's creatures.) Their taxes will be pretty much uneffected as the AMT gains will balance out the partial mortgage deducability loss. And the lower 2/3s of tax payers will be generally uneffected -- or will actually gain -- by being able to deduct mortgage interest when they can't now. And the overall effect will be to make housing more affordable. A good thing, yes? What is interesting is your implication that mortgage interest deductions is an entitlement. It is a poor policy economically, having been a huge bonanza of a tax shelter for the rich and has contributed to current housing being out of reach for 85% of potential buyers. An effect will be that less money will be sunk into fancy show-off houses and more into capital investments which will raise productivity and wage rates for all. A good thing, yes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know, California real estate is unreal (literally IMO and is not stable at current levels.) Thats one reason I left the state, having been born, raised, educated and careered there. Housing prices are just in fairyland compared to many other nice areas. And with broadband internet being most everywhere (and soon to be wireless, and literally EVERYWHERE, location is less and less important IMO, particularly if you can make a living not tied physically to a large hub business center.) Compare a $500,000 or million dollar home in SF, San Diego or Sac to one in FF. Its a joke. But the mortgage deduction still applies to the 350k bungalow. The proposals are for it to be partially taken away for the kind of basic $million middle class home close to it. And long run, thats a good thing, it will help bring housing and affordability back into synch. 15% affordibility rates are crazy and unsustainable. I was just looking at housing prices in my neighborhood in Santa Clara, Cal. which is a middle-class neighborhood, but nothing ritzy- Many retired folks, some families and couples. Houses are typically single story, about 50 years old, 1200 to 1500 square feet. Selling prices are 750 to 900K. You won't find a house for less, although I did see a 2/1, 900 square feet, for 720K... The proposed mortgage deduction would hurt a lot of people here, even if prices softened somewhat. The trend here, just to buy a house, is to take out an interest-only loan. So many homeowners are counting on that large mortgage interest deduction to be able to afford the house. For the last twenty years at least, through good times and bad, people have been predicting housing prices to go down here. There is about a 15% affordability rate in this area, with lots and lots of overseas investor money mostly from Asia keeping prices high, even through recessions. So the SF Bay Area is not purely a domestic real estate market. If the mortgage deduction is adjusted to the 350K range, all that will happen here is that local people will be forced to sell, the properties will be snatched up by investors and we'll have more renters. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was just looking at housing prices in my neighborhood in Santa Clara, Cal. which is a middle-class neighborhood, but nothing ritzy- Many retired folks, some families and couples. Houses are typically single story, about 50 years old, 1200 to 1500 square feet. Selling prices are 750 to 900K. You won't find a house for less, although I did see a 2/1, 900 square feet, for 720K... The proposed mortgage deduction would hurt a lot of people here, even if prices softened somewhat. Well the rent to mortgage cost (after tax) in many parts of the bay area, and other high price areas are quite low, like 50% and less. They are hurt only if they feel the need to buy. Pay 2000 in rent or 4000 in a mortgage. Rentals in sme areas a great deals -- and a great way to ride out the bubble. Some will say, but I don't want to throw my money away in rent. At least with a house I amd building equity. False on so many levels. First, everyone is a renter. They either rent property, or the rent money to to buy housing. A million dollar home costs a lot of rent on money. Just as wasted as property rent. Second, the only thing that makes owning more attractive, financially, than renting when the rent to mortgage ratios are so low, is the expectation of appreciation. But that train has left. Prices everywhere are leveling off or beginning to fall. And when the expectations for apprecation are no longer there, it becomes a double whammy: no appreciation, and demand for housing falls thus bringing pressure for lower prices -- starting a depreciation expectation cycle. Thats when everyone tries to unload and prices plummet. Third, if you are paying 2000 in rent instead of 4000 in mortgage for the same property, you are saving 2000 a month which can be saved, invested etc. Thats your rent equity building up and if there is no or little price appreciation, it will far outstrip any equity build up in property. Fourth, if one is paying interest only, they are not building up any equity -- nothing is going to repay principal. And they may actually be building up negative equity, which gets tacked onto the loan in later years. The only equity build up is if prices keep appreciating -- it becomes a game of the greater fool. Hold risky properties now with the hope someone will be foolish enough to buy at an appreciated price in a flat or declining market in years hence. Fifth, international investors may be holding up the market now, and maybe suffering from information lags -- being sold on price trends of past years and not understanding the dynamics of the local market. But after a year or two of flat and declining prices, the bloom will be off the rose, and hot international money could flood out of the area. By definition, international investors are renting their properties. 50% rent to mortgage ratios may be bearable when prices are appreciating 20-40% a year. But when that stops, for a couple of years, bam, many investors will try to unload. Thus putting more pressure on downward prices. The trend here, just to buy a house, is to take out an interest-only loan. So many homeowners are counting on that large mortgage interest deduction to be able to afford the house. And in 2-5 years they may count their blessings the loss of mortgage deductions prevented them from buying at the peak of the market. For the last twenty years at least, through good times and bad, people have been predicting housing prices to go down here. There is about a 15% affordability rate in this area, with lots and lots of overseas investor money mostly from Asia keeping prices high, even through recessions. But there has never been sustained 15% affordability and 50% rent to mortgage ratios. So the past is not a good predictor. And many parts of california had definite flattening and declines 1985-95 or so. Certainly in San Diego and parts of LA/OC. I thought the bay area had such too -- maybe not. So the SF Bay Area is not purely a domestic real estate market. If the mortgage deduction is adjusted to the 350K range, all that will happen here is that local people will be forced to sell, Well, many owners have morgages in the 500 or less range, having obtained them 5-20 years ago. Who will be initially hurt are new buyers. But they can rent for half the price. I can't feel too sorry for them. the properties will be snatched up by investors and we'll have more renters. Not for too much longer, IMO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote: Why does the TM-org rabidly criticise Deepak Chopra and Sri Sri. Ravishankar.?? TM-governors claim MMY called him Sugar- Caned poison.?? Duh. One word: competition. Falling mantra sales doesn't make M. happy. Isn't that obvious? Of course, it's also easy to rationalize it as some sort of cosmic scenario. I have NEVER heard anyone claim that MMY ever said anything ill about Chopra. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
on 11/13/05 10:49 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote: Why does the TM-org rabidly criticise Deepak Chopra and Sri Sri. Ravishankar.?? TM-governors claim MMY called him Sugar- Caned poison.?? Duh. One word: competition. Falling mantra sales doesn't make M. happy. Isn't that obvious? Of course, it's also easy to rationalize it as some sort of cosmic scenario. I have NEVER heard anyone claim that MMY ever said anything ill about Chopra. No, but TB's have gone so far as to spit on him in airports, or so I heard. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 11/13/05 10:49 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote: Why does the TM-org rabidly criticise Deepak Chopra and Sri Sri. Ravishankar.?? TM-governors claim MMY called him Sugar- Caned poison.?? Duh. One word: competition. Falling mantra sales doesn't make M. happy. Isn't that obvious? Of course, it's also easy to rationalize it as some sort of cosmic scenario. I have NEVER heard anyone claim that MMY ever said anything ill about Chopra. No, but TB's have gone so far as to spit on him in airports, or so I heard. I'm not pleased with him, but I tend to bite my tongue when his name is mentioned. The son of his publicist was on PUrusha for years after he left the TMO. This implies that there wasnot an official stance against Chopra and associated, though the guy did sound a tad defensive when he said to me you know my Mom, I think. He audibly relaxed when I put two and two together and went Oh, Muriel? How is she doing? Havent talk to her in ages, blah blah... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) f
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was just looking at housing prices in my neighborhood in Santa Clara, Cal. which is a middle-class neighborhood, but nothing ritzy- Many retired folks, some families and couples. Houses are typically single story, about 50 years old, 1200 to 1500 square feet. Selling prices are 750 to 900K. You won't find a house for less, although I did see a 2/1, 900 square feet, for 720K... The proposed mortgage deduction would hurt a lot of people here, even if prices softened somewhat. Well the rent to mortgage cost (after tax) in many parts of the bay area, and other high price areas are quite low, like 50% and less. They are hurt only if they feel the need to buy. Pay 2000 in rent or 4000 in a mortgage. Rentals in sme areas a great deals -- and a great way to ride out the bubble. Some will say, but I don't want to throw my money away in rent. At least with a house I amd building equity. False on so many levels. First, everyone is a renter. They either rent property, or the rent money to to buy housing. A million dollar home costs a lot of rent on money. Just as wasted as property rent. Second, the only thing that makes owning more attractive, financially, than renting when the rent to mortgage ratios are so low, is the expectation of appreciation. But that train has left. Prices everywhere are leveling off or beginning to fall. And when the expectations for apprecation are no longer there, it becomes a double whammy: no appreciation, and demand for housing falls thus bringing pressure for lower prices -- starting a depreciation expectation cycle. Thats when everyone tries to unload and prices plummet. Third, if you are paying 2000 in rent instead of 4000 in mortgage for the same property, you are saving 2000 a month which can be saved, invested etc. Thats your rent equity building up and if there is no or little price appreciation, it will far outstrip any equity build up in property. Fourth, if one is paying interest only, they are not building up any equity -- nothing is going to repay principal. And they may actually be building up negative equity, which gets tacked onto the loan in later years. The only equity build up is if prices keep appreciating -- it becomes a game of the greater fool. Hold risky properties now with the hope someone will be foolish enough to buy at an appreciated price in a flat or declining market in years hence. Fifth, international investors may be holding up the market now, and maybe suffering from information lags -- being sold on price trends of past years and not understanding the dynamics of the local market. But after a year or two of flat and declining prices, the bloom will be off the rose, and hot international money could flood out of the area. By definition, international investors are renting their properties. 50% rent to mortgage ratios may be bearable when prices are appreciating 20-40% a year. But when that stops, for a couple of years, bam, many investors will try to unload. Thus putting more pressure on downward prices. The trend here, just to buy a house, is to take out an interest-only loan. So many homeowners are counting on that large mortgage interest deduction to be able to afford the house. And in 2-5 years they may count their blessings the loss of mortgage deductions prevented them from buying at the peak of the market. For the last twenty years at least, through good times and bad, people have been predicting housing prices to go down here. There is about a 15% affordability rate in this area, with lots and lots of overseas investor money mostly from Asia keeping prices high, even through recessions. But there has never been sustained 15% affordability and 50% rent to mortgage ratios. So the past is not a good predictor. And many parts of california had definite flattening and declines 1985-95 or so. Certainly in San Diego and parts of LA/OC. I thought the bay area had such too -- maybe not. So the SF Bay Area is not purely a domestic real estate market. If the mortgage deduction is adjusted to the 350K range, all that will happen here is that local people will be forced to sell, Well, many owners have morgages in the 500 or less range, having obtained them 5-20 years ago. Who will be initially hurt are new buyers. But they can rent for half the price. I can't feel too sorry for them. the properties will be snatched up by investors and we'll have more renters. Not for too much longer, IMO. Actually per your above, an interest-only mortgage is actually cheaper many times than renting is, and you have the possiblity of building equity. Also, I don't know of anyone with a $500 per month mortgage who has purchased here in the last 20 years. And you make
