[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Forget that hippy stuff... time to turn it over to a new generation. What we need now is hip-hop music with twerking Mother Divine ladies in tight, flesh-colored, neck-to-ankle dresses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Transcendentalism has always been the counter-point and criticism to materialism and the materialist. Revolutionary transcendentalism standing for broad spiritual change is our revival message. We should just own it in fact. I feel we should adopt the musical cords of the guitar and keyboard in the Jefferson Airplane Volunteers from Woodstock as our branding musical introduction now to TM/David Lynch movement video productions. Enough of that German male choral thing, old Pachelbel or that Mother Divine vocal they use now for video theme music. Certainly the patriotic Airplane cords of revolution would bring people as American Volunteers back to the Domes to join in meditation for large purpose again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SboRijhWFDU -Buck in the Dome [snip]
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yeah, sound design introducing our TM leadership at public forum meetings on stage, instead of Hail to the Chief should play Joe Cocker's Something's Coming On as theme song for introducing John Hagelin as he comes up on stage to speak. Would be fabulous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viL7VxR__34 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: Forget that hippy stuff... time to turn it over to a new generation. What we need now is hip-hop music with twerking Mother Divine ladies in tight, flesh-colored, neck-to-ankle dresses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Transcendentalism has always been the counter-point and criticism to materialism and the materialist. Revolutionary transcendentalism standing for broad spiritual change is our revival message. We should just own it in fact. I feel we should adopt the musical cords of the guitar and keyboard in the Jefferson Airplane Volunteers from Woodstock as our branding musical introduction now to TM/David Lynch movement video productions. Enough of that German male choral thing, old Pachelbel or that Mother Divine vocal they use now for video theme music. Certainly the patriotic Airplane cords of revolution would bring people as American Volunteers back to the Domes to join in meditation for large purpose again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SboRijhWFDU -Buck in the Dome [snip]
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Funny reply. A 'smerican hugh? Pro'ly you didn't want to live in the land of the Once Free. However, I think chanuckistan's political system is even more f'd up than here - although we're fast turning into a crime ridden, illegal overwhelmed, drug house of horrors. If I didn't have two daughters needing me, I'd be better off down under. Damn gotta go to work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill wrote: AnniePurna You got yer psycho-RN training from the World Teacher, so I know you already know how those demons subvert the innocents from using their free-will power-to-choose. Heh, Heh. I like that image of psycho-RN training from the World Teacher. It has such a cool ring to it. Am I really that formidable? A Nurse Ratched? OK, I'm game if you are. Now turn around, bend over and down with the... well we could play nurse all day but I better answer the rest of your post. FYI - A chamber has to be empty to receive the trust of the fitted bullet - but the heat only erupts as the round explodes. Yea, yea, of course it's empty, you just fired all the bullets and now it is hot, very hot. I'm not sure you hit anything but it made a big sound. Also FYI - My mom was a jumper. My parents bred quarter-horse and appaloosa. One of the apps was a cutting horse and a joy to ride. But that was never my main interest. Whoa cowboy. Quarter horses are not known for their jumping prowess but they can cut alright. You need to have some pretty good stickem to stay on those babies. They turn and stop and wheel like nobody's business. I couldn't stay on one of those even. You wouldn't have a chance. Appys can be pretty to look at but they're also stubborn as mules for some reason. They never have decent tails either, no hair. BTW - Enjoy your North American domicile while you can - after all the 'smericans you chanuckistani's hate are the sole protectors of your sweet hyperborean paradise. Whoa again sweet cheeks. I'm American. Just remember that death is stalking us all, even when we're acting like it isn't so. Well, being the Woody Allenish hypochondriac that I am I am infinitely aware of death and disease every waking moment. I live death baby, believe me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Annie Gottagun Oh empty chamber, all those bullets you keep expelling and now you're smoking hot. Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. in secret? You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Are you a demon?! Yoiks and all this time I mistook you for this kinda bitter guy without the sweetness but a man nevertheless. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? Well, not a circle exactly, more like a trapezoidal figure. I'm not sure they're disciples exactly, they come and ride with me sometimes or help me pick apples in the orchard. Do you ever pick apples empty chamber/smoking gun? We have a rather large, abandoned orchard with pears and figs and plums (both golden and purple) blackberries, holly, peaches, cherries and the deer and rats and birds love to eat there. This is where I and my would-be disciples sometimes pick apples for the horses which we gather in wheelbarrows; there are just so many apples and these are many types of heritage apples grafted onto other apples trees by the previous property owner. Oh, and we have one horse buried in that orchard. An old jumper who deserved to be placed in the ground underneath the fruit trees so that he didn't have to be carted off and thrown into a pit at the local dump. He wasn't my horse but he earned the privilege to come and find a quiet resting spot after a life of racing for 8 years and jumping for another 12. My old mare of 29 years will be buried in that orchard next to him. Her name is Annapurna. You might like her; she is wise and gentle and beautiful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Funny reply. A 'smerican hugh? Pro'ly you didn't want to live in the land of the Once Free. Being head nurse of the psycho WT ER up here and having vowed to overlook the land of the World Teacher for eternity I am bound to stay in this sacred place called Victoria. I take my position and status seriously so I am bound to the land up here. You never know, one day the WT himself might return to claim his rightful status once again and for that we can all rejoice. Only this time you better be boned up on your first person ontology and forget the demon thing - so passe. However, I think chanuckistan's political system is even more f'd up than here - although we're fast turning into a crime ridden, illegal overwhelmed, drug house of horrors. From afar what I see is a country riddled with the wrong kind of patriotism based on erroneous reasoning and reaction. While the US has a lot going for it I can't handle all that Star Spangled Banner and in my 57 years on this planet I have only spent about 20 years of that on your side of the border. And as far as politics goes, government is doomed to be run by humans therefore what do you expect? If you go Down Under you will have to listen to that accent though and that is almost worse than knowing you live in a country where Duck Dynasty was conceived of and broadcast. Lawd, help us. If I didn't have two daughters needing me, I'd be better off down under. Damn gotta go to work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill wrote: AnniePurna You got yer psycho-RN training from the World Teacher, so I know you already know how those demons subvert the innocents from using their free-will power-to-choose. Heh, Heh. I like that image of psycho-RN training from the World Teacher. It has such a cool ring to it. Am I really that formidable? A Nurse Ratched? OK, I'm game if you are. Now turn around, bend over and down with the... well we could play nurse all day but I better answer the rest of your post. FYI - A chamber has to be empty to receive the trust of the fitted bullet - but the heat only erupts as the round explodes. Yea, yea, of course it's empty, you just fired all the bullets and now it is hot, very hot. I'm not sure you hit anything but it made a big sound. Also FYI - My mom was a jumper. My parents bred quarter-horse and appaloosa. One of the apps was a cutting horse and a joy to ride. But that was never my main interest. Whoa cowboy. Quarter horses are not known for their jumping prowess but they can cut alright. You need to have some pretty good stickem to stay on those babies. They turn and stop and wheel like nobody's business. I couldn't stay on one of those even. You wouldn't have a chance. Appys can be pretty to look at but they're also stubborn as mules for some reason. They never have decent tails either, no hair. BTW - Enjoy your North American domicile while you can - after all the 'smericans you chanuckistani's hate are the sole protectors of your sweet hyperborean paradise. Whoa again sweet cheeks. I'm American. Just remember that death is stalking us all, even when we're acting like it isn't so. Well, being the Woody Allenish hypochondriac that I am I am infinitely aware of death and disease every waking moment. I live death baby, believe me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Annie Gottagun Oh empty chamber, all those bullets you keep expelling and now you're smoking hot. Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. in secret? You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Are you a demon?! Yoiks and all this time I mistook you for this kinda bitter guy without the sweetness but a man nevertheless. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? Well, not a circle exactly, more like a trapezoidal figure. I'm not sure they're disciples exactly, they come and ride with me sometimes or help me pick apples in the orchard. Do you ever pick apples empty chamber/smoking gun? We have a rather large, abandoned orchard with pears and figs and plums (both golden and purple) blackberries, holly, peaches, cherries and the deer and rats and birds love to eat there. This is where I and my would-be disciples sometimes pick apples for the horses which we gather in wheelbarrows; there are just so many apples and these are many types of heritage apples grafted onto other apples trees by the previous property owner. Oh, and we have one horse buried in that orchard. An
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. --- turquoiseb wrote: I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. --- Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect they do not really have any training to handle them. I found a solution in what I was reading. It seems that after a clear awakening, one's ability to keep repressed material repressed simply falls apart. The can of worms is open, and if something triggers the experience, you cannot close it, and the experience really does seem like you are coming apart at the seams. All you can do is endure it. Nothing helps. It is as if finally there is enough room in your world to experience this. The intellectual knowledge that this is common, that others experienced it, and that it is super intense, and that you have to go through it because there is no way to back out, is really useful. Kind of like the emotional equivalent of childbirth as far as pain. That information, along with the stability conferred by awakening allowed me to get through it, just barely. Without that information I would have been a lot more confused, and perhaps would have done things even more stupid than had occurred to me to attempt at the time. Half of my time during this was acting on a mental delusion caused by the release. Finally it subsided after a few years. It was a strangely miserable/wonderful several years. After that my sense of stability was much, much greater, and the character of the experience that I had had before this happened was much clearer. Maybe it will happen again. I simply do not know. The result now I would not call bliss, but a sense of profound evenness that has been stable for some time. I have no illusions that this evenness will never be disrupted again. But it has been pretty nice. An example of evenness occurred a couple of days ago. I was preparing breakfast. I had put a small amount of oil in a frying pan. Then while it heated up, I sat down at the table and started to read the following comic (courtesy of Randall Monroe at xkcd.com): [xkcd comic: Questions] I found this comic hilarious, but because it was so dense, I just kept
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Bob, you leave me without words - a good thing. :) And, thank you for the documentary and musical links of last Thurs. Here's a picture from the WA coast last week. Love, Emily http://www.flickr.com/photos/71633812@N08/9615960464/ From: bobpriced bobpri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqyXjjbsOos --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn wrote: Hi Xeno, thanks for sharingRe: thisThen all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. Something akin to this happened to me once.except that I thought it was real. Smile. Keep 'em coming Xeno. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect they do not really have any training to handle them. I found a solution in what I was reading. It seems that after a clear awakening, one's ability to keep repressed material repressed simply falls apart. The can of worms is open, and if something triggers the experience, you cannot close it, and the experience really does seem like you are coming apart at the seams. All you can do is endure it. Nothing helps. It is as if finally there is enough room in your world to experience this. The intellectual knowledge that this is common, that others experienced it, and that it is super intense, and that you have to go through it because
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I'm still waiting for the Lesbo Love Scene. I'm still waiting for the gay and lesbian neo-nazi skinhead love scene. And, waiting for you to learn how to snip posts. At least you're top posting the one-liners now. LoL! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Well dear Ann - the thing to remember is Obba is basically a crazy woman. SNIP
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
emptybill: Pro'ly you didn't want to live in the land of the Once Free. However, I think chanuckistan's political system is even more f'd up than here - although we're fast turning into a crime ridden, illegal overwhelmed, drug house of horrors. Have you been watching cable TV lately? Breaking Bad or Dexter? If I didn't have two daughters needing me, You've got two daughters - I've got grand kids to take care of. One is graduating from Beauty College - we're going to start a wig business down in San Diego. I'd be better off down under. Maybe - Rita went there several years ago to visit a friend, down under in Australia, to Adelaide, which is down under down under. We may be visiting there on our trip next year. But, did you mean down under, under the ground? I know things are bad out there. Go figure. Damn gotta go to work. Now that's better! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill wrote: AnniePurna You got yer psycho-RN training from the World Teacher, so I know you already know how those demons subvert the innocents from using their free-will power-to-choose.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I'd say you have the makings of a pretty good picture maker. What John Ford said to Spielberg: https://plus.google.com/110761352298487979695/posts/EXKFgHgtgge https://plus.google.com/110761352298487979695/posts/EXKFgHgtgge --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Emily Reyn wrote: Bob, you leave me without words - a good thing. :) And, thank you for the documentary and musical links of last Thurs. Here's a picture from the WA coast last week.  Love, Emily http://www.flickr.com/photos/71633812@N08/9615960464/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/71633812@N08/9615960464/ From: bobpriced bobpriced@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqyXjjbsOos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqyXjjbsOos --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , emilymae.reyn wrote: Hi Xeno, thanks for sharingRe: thisThen all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. Something akin to this happened to me once.except that I thought it was real. Smile. Keep 'em coming Xeno. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Diamonds and rust. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MSwBM_CbyY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MSwBM_CbyY Emmylou Harris, Joan Baez and Jackson Browne - July 27, 2013 http://youtu.be/giY3W6fxK_c http://youtu.be/giY3W6fxK_c http://youtu.be/giY3W6fxK_c
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Now Judy, you're also trying to practice mind reading, and unsuccessfully so. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Now Judy, you're also trying to practice mind reading, and unsuccessfully so. Now, Share, you know I don't trust you to tell the truth, especially about yourself. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Ha ha. Share, I laughed heartily at what you said also. What is triggered within you about yourself and your attempts at snide and sly? P.S. This is a direct question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Share, here's another direct question for you. Re: Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks, how does being very triggered manifest within you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Ha ha. Share, I laughed heartily at what you said also. What is triggered within you about yourself and your attempts at snide and sly? P.S. This is a direct question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Share, as you go about your day, remember to watch those triggers of yours and take heed of what you are learning in your own words: I'm learning, especially here on FFL, that it's best NEVER to blast someone unkindly. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Share, here's another direct question for you. Re: Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks, how does being very triggered manifest within you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Ha ha. Share, I laughed heartily at what you said also. What is triggered within you about yourself and your attempts at snide and sly? P.S. This is a direct question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Judy, I think Xeno has addressed this topic with you quite thoroughly. I'll add that you think you know THE truth about people's motivations, etc. but all you have, just like the rest of us, are your opinions. Staunchly held and defended, but opinions nonetheless. Carry on... From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Now Judy, you're also trying to practice mind reading, and unsuccessfully so. Now, Share, you know I don't trust you to tell the truth, especially about yourself. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, I think Xeno has addressed this topic with you quite thoroughly. Well, no, he didn't, Share. He took a shot, but it was rather feeble. I'll add that you think you know THE truth about people's motivations, Now who's mind-reading? guffaw In some cases, yes. Not all but some (as I explained to Xeno, but I guess you missed that). etc. but all you have, just like the rest of us, are your opinions. Staunchly held and defended, Not just like the rest of us. Or at least not just like *some* of the rest of us. All opinions are not on an equal footing as to their validity, you see. but opinions nonetheless. Carry on... From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Now Judy, you're also trying to practice mind reading, and unsuccessfully so. Now, Share, you know I don't trust you to tell the truth, especially about yourself. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Emily, I get really triggered by yahoo a lot these days. Does that count? From: emilymae.reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world Share, as you go about your day, remember to watch those triggers of yours and take heed of what you are learning in your own words: I'm learning, especially here on FFL, that it's best NEVER to blast someone unkindly. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Share, here's another direct question for you. Re: Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks, how does being very triggered manifest within you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Ha ha. Share, I laughed heartily at what you said also. What is triggered within you about yourself and your attempts at snide and sly? P.S. This is a direct question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Share, the question was not *what* do you get triggered by, the question was: how does being very triggered manifest within you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Emily, I get really triggered by yahoo a lot these days. Does that count? From: emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Share, as you go about your day, remember to watch those triggers of yours and take heed of what you are learning in your own words: I'm learning, especially here on FFL, that it's best NEVER to blast someone unkindly. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Share, here's another direct question for you. Re: Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks, how does being very triggered manifest within you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Ha ha. Share, I laughed heartily at what you said also. What is triggered within you about yourself and your attempts at snide and sly? P.S. This is a direct question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, obviously we have different definitions of snide and sly No, I don't think so, Share. At least, we didn't up until the moment you read my post. and also obviously you think yours is the right one. BTW, I don't consider this post snide and sly either. No, this one's just straightforwardly dishonest. But interesting to see that you're always on the alert for whatever it is you're always on the alert for. My, what an intelligent observation. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: See, emptybill, according to Ann, it's ok if you scold Buck, but not ok if you scold Ravi. No go figuring needed, right? Share, Monday: I think I'm less bothered by turq because his attacks are straight forward. Whereas I'm very triggered by what I call snide and sly attacks. I guffawed at the hyposcrisy when I read that, since Share's primary mode of attack on FFL has always been snide and sly. But I figured I'd wait to make that observation until her next snide/sly attack. I didn't even have to wait 24 hours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Annie Gottagun Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect they do not really have any training to handle them. I found a solution in what I was reading. It seems that after a clear awakening, one's ability to keep repressed material repressed simply falls apart. The can of worms is open, and if something triggers the experience, you cannot close it, and the experience really does seem like you are coming apart at the seams. All you can do is endure it. Nothing helps. It is as if finally there is enough room in your world to experience this. The intellectual knowledge that this is common, that others experienced it, and that it is super intense, and that you have to go through it because there is no way to back out, is really useful. Kind of like the emotional equivalent of childbirth as far as pain. That information, along with the stability conferred by awakening allowed me to get through it, just barely. Without that information I would have been a lot more confused, and perhaps would have done things even more stupid than had occurred to me to attempt at the time. Half of my time during this was acting on a mental delusion caused by the release. Finally it subsided after a few years. It was a strangely miserable/wonderful several years. After that my sense of stability was much, much greater, and the character of the experience that I had had before this happened was much clearer. Maybe it will happen again. I simply do not know. The result now I would not call bliss, but a sense of profound evenness that has been stable for some time. I have no illusions that this evenness will never be disrupted again. But it has been pretty nice. An example of evenness occurred a couple of days ago. I was preparing breakfast. I had put a small amount of oil in a frying pan. Then while it heated up, I sat down at the table and started to read the following comic (courtesy of Randall Monroe at xkcd.com): [xkcd comic: Questions] I found this comic hilarious, but because it was so dense, I just kept reading. After an interval, the smoke detector in the home began to screech.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect they do not really have any training to handle them. I found a solution in what I was reading. It seems that after a clear awakening, one's ability to keep repressed material repressed simply falls apart. The can of worms is open, and if something triggers the experience, you cannot close it, and the experience really does seem like you are coming apart at the seams. All you can do is endure it. Nothing helps. It is as if finally there is enough room in your world to experience this. The intellectual knowledge that this is common, that others experienced it, and that it is super intense, and that you have to go through it because there is no way to back out, is really useful. Kind of like the emotional equivalent of childbirth as far as pain. That information, along with the stability conferred by awakening allowed me to get through it, just barely. Without that information I would have been a lot more confused, and perhaps would have done things even more stupid than had occurred to me to attempt at the time. Half of my time during this was acting on a mental delusion caused by the release. Finally it subsided after a few years. It was a strangely miserable/wonderful several years. After that my sense of stability was much, much greater, and the character of the experience that I had had before this happened was much clearer. Maybe it will happen again. I simply do not know. The result now I would not call bliss, but a sense of profound evenness that has been stable for some time. I have no illusions that this evenness will never be disrupted again. But it has been pretty nice. An example of evenness occurred a couple of days ago. I was preparing breakfast. I had put a small amount of oil in a frying pan. Then while it heated up, I sat down at the
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
This is how the guile, artifice and self-indulgence of a fool displays itself o' ego-bloated brahma rakshasa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this how the innocence, beauty and playfulness of Krishna comes across to you oh empty Rakshasaa? On Aug 26, 2013, at 7:12 PM, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Empty baby - I only asked you to go the abode of Raakshasaas to provide the perspective on how the innocence and playfulness of this dark Krishna appears to them. You can come back now empty baby. Oh wait a minute - are you stuck baby? OMG - why did I ever ask you to go there, so stupid of me. That idiot empty thinks that is the reality - fuck !!! On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 2:54 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: This is how the guile, artifice and self-indulgence of a fool displays itself o' ego-bloated brahma rakshasa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this how the innocence, beauty and playfulness of Krishna comes across to you oh empty Rakshasaa? On Aug 26, 2013, at 7:12 PM, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I see you empty..OMG how can I ever forgive myself [image: Inline image 1] On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.comwrote: Empty baby - I only asked you to go the abode of Raakshasaas to provide the perspective on how the innocence and playfulness of this dark Krishna appears to them. You can come back now empty baby. Oh wait a minute - are you stuck baby? OMG - why did I ever ask you to go there, so stupid of me. That idiot empty thinks that is the reality - fuck !!! On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 2:54 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: This is how the guile, artifice and self-indulgence of a fool displays itself o' ego-bloated brahma rakshasa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this how the innocence, beauty and playfulness of Krishna comes across to you oh empty Rakshasaa? On Aug 26, 2013, at 7:12 PM, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Grandpa Xeno -it's perfectly OK for you to share your experiences with the emotionally, psychologically stunted like Uncle Tantrum and Aunt Share, but please, I repeat DO NOT share your psychotically enlightened experiences with normal people. STAY AWAY FROM CIVILIZATION !!! On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect they do not really have any training to handle them. I found a solution in what I was reading. It seems that after a clear awakening, one's ability to keep repressed material repressed simply falls apart. The can of worms is open, and if something triggers the experience, you cannot close it, and the experience really does seem like you are coming apart at the seams. All you can do is endure it. Nothing helps. It is as if finally there is enough room in your world to experience this. The intellectual knowledge that this is common, that others experienced it, and that it is super intense, and that you have to go through it because there is no way to back out, is really useful. Kind of like the emotional equivalent of childbirth as far as pain. That information, along with the stability conferred by awakening allowed me to get through it, just barely. Without that information I would have been a lot more confused, and perhaps would have done things even more stupid than had occurred to me to attempt at the time. Half of my time during this was acting on a mental delusion caused by the release. Finally it subsided after a few years. It was a strangely miserable/wonderful several years. After that my sense of stability was much, much greater, and the character of the experience that I had had before this happened was much clearer. Maybe it will happen again. I simply do not know. The result now I would not call bliss, but a sense of profound evenness that has been stable for some time. I have no illusions that this evenness will never be disrupted again. But it has been pretty nice.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Hi Xeno, thanks for sharingRe: thisThen all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. Something akin to this happened to me once.except that I thought it was real. Smile. Keep 'em coming Xeno. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect they do not really have any training to handle them. I found a solution in what I was reading. It seems that after a clear awakening, one's ability to keep repressed material repressed simply falls apart. The can of worms is open, and if something triggers the experience, you cannot close it, and the experience really does seem like you are coming apart at the seams. All you can do is endure it. Nothing helps. It is as if finally there is enough room in your world to experience this. The intellectual knowledge that this is common, that others experienced it, and that it is super intense, and that you have to go through it because there is no way to back out, is really useful. Kind of like the emotional equivalent of childbirth as far as pain. That information, along with the stability conferred by awakening allowed me to get through it, just barely. Without that information I would have been a lot more confused, and perhaps would have done things even more stupid than had occurred to me to attempt at the time. Half of my time during this was acting on a mental delusion caused by the release. Finally it subsided after a few years. It was a strangely miserable/wonderful several years. After that my sense of stability was much, much greater, and the
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Annie Gottagun Oh empty chamber, all those bullets you keep expelling and now you're smoking hot. Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. in secret? You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Are you a demon?! Yoiks and all this time I mistook you for this kinda bitter guy without the sweetness but a man nevertheless. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? Well, not a circle exactly, more like a trapezoidal figure. I'm not sure they're disciples exactly, they come and ride with me sometimes or help me pick apples in the orchard. Do you ever pick apples empty chamber/smoking gun? We have a rather large, abandoned orchard with pears and figs and plums (both golden and purple) blackberries, holly, peaches, cherries and the deer and rats and birds love to eat there. This is where I and my would-be disciples sometimes pick apples for the horses which we gather in wheelbarrows; there are just so many apples and these are many types of heritage apples grafted onto other apples trees by the previous property owner. Oh, and we have one horse buried in that orchard. An old jumper who deserved to be placed in the ground underneath the fruit trees so that he didn't have to be carted off and thrown into a pit at the local dump. He wasn't my horse but he earned the privilege to come and find a quiet resting spot after a life of racing for 8 years and jumping for another 12. My old mare of 29 years will be buried in that orchard next to him. Her name is Annapurna. You might like her; she is wise and gentle and beautiful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
O' raviola you finally found me - appearing in the form of my mentor: Vajrabhairava, the impenetrable terrifier who is death to death itself and his wife ... Vajravetali, the adamintine vampiress who sucks the life-blood of the samaya breakers, the oath violators who violate their original words of divine honor to help sentient beings. However, as a Brahma-rakshasa you wouldn't know about that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: I see you empty..OMG how can I ever forgive myself [image: Inline image 1] On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@...wrote: Empty baby - I only asked you to go the abode of Raakshasaas to provide the perspective on how the innocence and playfulness of this dark Krishna appears to them. You can come back now empty baby. Oh wait a minute - are you stuck baby? OMG - why did I ever ask you to go there, so stupid of me. That idiot empty thinks that is the reality - fuck !!! On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 2:54 PM, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This is how the guile, artifice and self-indulgence of a fool displays itself o' ego-bloated brahma rakshasa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this how the innocence, beauty and playfulness of Krishna comes across to you oh empty Rakshasaa? On Aug 26, 2013, at 7:12 PM, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I just talked to Devi empty baby and she is - like me, really really concerned about your childish fantasies. Once you come back home - we can address your emotional, social handicaps. You are coming back home - aren't you empty baby? On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:23 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: O' raviola you finally found me - appearing in the form of my mentor: * Vajrabhairava*, the impenetrable terrifier *who is death to death itself* and his wife ... *Vajravetali,* the adamintine vampiress who sucks the life-blood of the samaya breakers, the oath violators who violate their original words of divine honor to help sentient beings. However, as a Brahma-rakshasa you wouldn't know about that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: I see you empty..OMG how can I ever forgive myself [image: Inline image 1] On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@...wrote: Empty baby - I only asked you to go the abode of Raakshasaas to provide the perspective on how the innocence and playfulness of this dark Krishna appears to them. You can come back now empty baby. Oh wait a minute - are you stuck baby? OMG - why did I ever ask you to go there, so stupid of me. That idiot empty thinks that is the reality - fuck !!! On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 2:54 PM, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: This is how the guile, artifice and self-indulgence of a fool displays itself o' ego-bloated brahma rakshasa. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this how the innocence, beauty and playfulness of Krishna comes across to you oh empty Rakshasaa? On Aug 26, 2013, at 7:12 PM, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Oh dear Ann please forgive my empty baby, the Devi I vouch for him. He may lack social, emotional skills, talk gibberish - but he is innocent and totally harmless. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Annie Gottagun Oh empty chamber, all those bullets you keep expelling and now you're smoking hot. Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. in secret? You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Are you a demon?! Yoiks and all this time I mistook you for this kinda bitter guy without the sweetness but a man nevertheless. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? Well, not a circle exactly, more like a trapezoidal figure. I'm not sure they're disciples exactly, they come and ride with me sometimes or help me pick apples in the orchard. Do you ever pick apples empty chamber/smoking gun? We have a rather large, abandoned orchard with pears and figs and plums (both golden and purple) blackberries, holly, peaches, cherries and the deer and rats and birds love to eat there. This is where I and my would-be disciples sometimes pick apples for the horses which we gather in wheelbarrows; there are just so many apples and these are many types of heritage apples grafted onto other apples trees by the previous property owner. Oh, and we have one horse buried in that orchard. An old jumper who deserved to be placed in the ground underneath the fruit trees so that he didn't have to be carted off and thrown into a pit at the local dump. He wasn't my horse but he earned the privilege to come and find a quiet resting spot after a life of racing for 8 years and jumping for another 12. My old mare of 29 years will be buried in that orchard next to him. Her name is Annapurna. You might like her; she is wise and gentle and beautiful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqyXjjbsOos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqyXjjbsOos --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , emilymae.reyn wrote: Hi Xeno, thanks for sharingRe: thisThen all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. Something akin to this happened to me once.except that I thought it was real. Smile. Keep 'em coming Xeno. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What propelled the restoration of interest in all this was a sudden unexpected shift in experience. Everything I had thought had failed, proved in retrospect to have been useful, but to have had more specific information at specific times in my life would possibly have made the process more efficient. I'm not convinced that would be true. Information that told you what an experience meant would have been just one more bit of misinformation, after all. The experience was what it was -- nothing more, and nothing less. I was thinking along the lines of not what a description of an experience means but how a description helps one navigate an experience. Obviously, if I have the thought that things might have been 'better' if I had had more useful information at the time, this thought is not going to apply to me now, but it might be useful to someone else later on, so they do not get quite so stuck. Not so much what this means, but what do I do, if anything, when such and such happens, and I do not understand what is happening? Certain traditional hand-me-downs do become useful, such as what a screw is, and what a screwdriver is, and how to use them in what circumstance, and how these items relate to sticking things together. After what I would call a very clear but subdued awakening experience some years ago, things were pretty nice for several years. There was something about this particular experience, unlike others I had had long ago, that I could not grasp in any way. Even the attempt to talk about it stymied me. Then all hell broke loose. A vast amount of repressed material rose up and flowed out of me. A total surprise. So clearly the awakening was not a clean slate. It was ultra intense, say twenty times more intense than anything I had experienced up to then. And the experience was truly unusual because while my regular life flowed along, there was this other stuff that I knew was not real, but it felt so real it was impossible to not act on it. It was like my mind was split in two with two parallel lives running simultaneously, one the present and the other thoughts, feelings, behaviours from long ago. I had no clue what was happening. If I had asked a TM teacher what was happening they probably would have said I was 'just unstressing, that I should take it easy and maybe get my meditation checked or something'. No really useful information or guidelines that apply directly. Extreme experiences like this seem to be swept under the rug by TM teachers, anything not in the template. I suspect they do not really have any training to handle them. I found a solution in what I was reading. It seems that after a clear awakening, one's ability to keep repressed material repressed simply falls apart. The can of worms is open, and if something triggers the experience, you cannot close it, and the experience really does seem like you are coming apart at the seams. All you can do is endure it. Nothing helps. It is as if finally there is enough room in your world to experience this. The intellectual knowledge that this is common, that others experienced it, and that it is super intense, and that you have to go through it because there is no way to back out, is really useful. Kind of like the emotional equivalent of childbirth as far as pain. That information, along with the stability conferred by awakening allowed me to get through it, just barely. Without that information I would have been a lot more
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
AnniePurna You got yer psycho-RN training from the World Teacher, so I know you already know how those demons subvert the innocents from using their free-will power-to-choose. Heh, Heh. FYI - A chamber has to be empty to receive the trust of the fitted bullet - but the heat only erupts as the round explodes. Also FYI - My mom was a jumper. My parents bred quarter-horse and appaloosa. One of the apps was a cutting horse and a joy to ride. But that was never my main interest. BTW - Enjoy your North American domicile while you can - after all the 'smericans you chanuckistani's hate are the sole protectors of your sweet hyperborean paradise. Just remember that death is stalking us all, even when we're acting like it isn't so. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Annie Gottagun Oh empty chamber, all those bullets you keep expelling and now you're smoking hot. Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. in secret? You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Are you a demon?! Yoiks and all this time I mistook you for this kinda bitter guy without the sweetness but a man nevertheless. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? Well, not a circle exactly, more like a trapezoidal figure. I'm not sure they're disciples exactly, they come and ride with me sometimes or help me pick apples in the orchard. Do you ever pick apples empty chamber/smoking gun? We have a rather large, abandoned orchard with pears and figs and plums (both golden and purple) blackberries, holly, peaches, cherries and the deer and rats and birds love to eat there. This is where I and my would-be disciples sometimes pick apples for the horses which we gather in wheelbarrows; there are just so many apples and these are many types of heritage apples grafted onto other apples trees by the previous property owner. Oh, and we have one horse buried in that orchard. An old jumper who deserved to be placed in the ground underneath the fruit trees so that he didn't have to be carted off and thrown into a pit at the local dump. He wasn't my horse but he earned the privilege to come and find a quiet resting spot after a life of racing for 8 years and jumping for another 12. My old mare of 29 years will be buried in that orchard next to him. Her name is Annapurna. You might like her; she is wise and gentle and beautiful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Devi is after me again empty baby - she is recommending this game for you http://www.muchgames.com/games/demon-girl-dress-up She thinks it may be the cure for your emotional handicap fueled fantasies. [image: Inline image 1] On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 5:18 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: AnniePurna You got yer psycho-RN training from the World Teacher, so I know you already know how those demons subvert the innocents from using their free-will power-to-choose. Heh, Heh. FYI - A chamber has to be empty to receive the trust of the fitted bullet - but the heat only erupts as the round explodes. Also FYI - My mom was a jumper. My parents bred quarter-horse and appaloosa. One of the apps was a cutting horse and a joy to ride. But that was never my main interest. BTW - Enjoy your North American domicile while you can - after all the 'smericans you chanuckistani's hate are the sole protectors of your sweet hyperborean paradise. Just remember that death is stalking us all, even when we're acting like it isn't so. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Annie Gottagun Oh empty chamber, all those bullets you keep expelling and now you're smoking hot. Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. in secret? You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Are you a demon?! Yoiks and all this time I mistook you for this kinda bitter guy without the sweetness but a man nevertheless. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? Well, not a circle exactly, more like a trapezoidal figure. I'm not sure they're disciples exactly, they come and ride with me sometimes or help me pick apples in the orchard. Do you ever pick apples empty chamber/smoking gun? We have a rather large, abandoned orchard with pears and figs and plums (both golden and purple) blackberries, holly, peaches, cherries and the deer and rats and birds love to eat there. This is where I and my would-be disciples sometimes pick apples for the horses which we gather in wheelbarrows; there are just so many apples and these are many types of heritage apples grafted onto other apples trees by the previous property owner. Oh, and we have one horse buried in that orchard. An old jumper who deserved to be placed in the ground underneath the fruit trees so that he didn't have to be carted off and thrown into a pit at the local dump. He wasn't my horse but he earned the privilege to come and find a quiet resting spot after a life of racing for 8 years and jumping for another 12. My old mare of 29 years will be buried in that orchard next to him. Her name is Annapurna. You might like her; she is wise and gentle and beautiful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill wrote: AnniePurna You got yer psycho-RN training from the World Teacher, so I know you already know how those demons subvert the innocents from using their free-will power-to-choose. Heh, Heh. I like that image of psycho-RN training from the World Teacher. It has such a cool ring to it. Am I really that formidable? A Nurse Ratched? OK, I'm game if you are. Now turn around, bend over and down with the... well we could play nurse all day but I better answer the rest of your post. FYI - A chamber has to be empty to receive the trust of the fitted bullet - but the heat only erupts as the round explodes. Yea, yea, of course it's empty, you just fired all the bullets and now it is hot, very hot. I'm not sure you hit anything but it made a big sound. Also FYI - My mom was a jumper. My parents bred quarter-horse and appaloosa. One of the apps was a cutting horse and a joy to ride. But that was never my main interest. Whoa cowboy. Quarter horses are not known for their jumping prowess but they can cut alright. You need to have some pretty good stickem to stay on those babies. They turn and stop and wheel like nobody's business. I couldn't stay on one of those even. You wouldn't have a chance. Appys can be pretty to look at but they're also stubborn as mules for some reason. They never have decent tails either, no hair. BTW - Enjoy your North American domicile while you can - after all the 'smericans you chanuckistani's hate are the sole protectors of your sweet hyperborean paradise. Whoa again sweet cheeks. I'm American. Just remember that death is stalking us all, even when we're acting like it isn't so. Well, being the Woody Allenish hypochondriac that I am I am infinitely aware of death and disease every waking moment. I live death baby, believe me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Annie Gottagun Oh empty chamber, all those bullets you keep expelling and now you're smoking hot. Thanks for finally clarifying it all. So glad you finally showed what you really learned in secret from the World Teacher. in secret? You too are now a discerner of intent and the disguised motivations of the demons. Are you a demon?! Yoiks and all this time I mistook you for this kinda bitter guy without the sweetness but a man nevertheless. Gotta a circle of disciples yet? Well, not a circle exactly, more like a trapezoidal figure. I'm not sure they're disciples exactly, they come and ride with me sometimes or help me pick apples in the orchard. Do you ever pick apples empty chamber/smoking gun? We have a rather large, abandoned orchard with pears and figs and plums (both golden and purple) blackberries, holly, peaches, cherries and the deer and rats and birds love to eat there. This is where I and my would-be disciples sometimes pick apples for the horses which we gather in wheelbarrows; there are just so many apples and these are many types of heritage apples grafted onto other apples trees by the previous property owner. Oh, and we have one horse buried in that orchard. An old jumper who deserved to be placed in the ground underneath the fruit trees so that he didn't have to be carted off and thrown into a pit at the local dump. He wasn't my horse but he earned the privilege to come and find a quiet resting spot after a life of racing for 8 years and jumping for another 12. My old mare of 29 years will be buried in that orchard next to him. Her name is Annapurna. You might like her; she is wise and gentle and beautiful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Do you realize Grandpa Xeno how psychopathically deranged your experiences sound? You are too alienated emotionally, psychologically - god I felt so sick reading your vomit. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be wrong to that person. In retrospect a scheme might even seem more on point than when one was on the path, because when you are on the path, you do not really know what you are headed for, or even where you are, and a benchmark isn't a specific experience, it is an general category of experience so making a mistake in interpreting what is going on is certainly a reasonable assumption. Even the belief in a scheme might be useful just to keep you going. My experiences were in some ways anomalous and that led to much doubt. I went through a long period where I did not want to read anything about spiritual development, meditating all the while, but just not interested in hearing about or discussing it. Also run-of-the-mill TM discussions can be incredibly boring. At any point in a spiritual path all one really needs is information that applies directly to what one's experience or experiences are just at that time, and not any other drivel; it does not always work to apply cookie cutter templates. The TM movement does not really want you to look at other stuff, but eventually that is what helped me most; I took complete control of my 'program' away from the movement over time because it failed to provide the information I
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. That is all that *anyone* has, or has had, in *any* era of human existence. The attempt to portray one's subjective experience as objective or universal or even as something to be desired or aspired to is IMO sheer narcissism. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. If you're talking about the type of experience that people characterize as enlightenment, it should sober up people claiming it that even *I* have had such experience. Unlike them, I didn't try to make it more than what it was -- Just Another Experience. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. Interestingly, the scientific literature is full of people who have never even *heard* of enlightenment having experiences that seekers associate only with it, and only with having practiced techniques to develop such experiences. Things like witnessing during waking or sleep are common, as are moments of no-thought, and of perceptions of silence or stillness underlying (and simultaneous with) all other experience. And, of course, we probably would not have had the psychological diagnosis of dissoc- iation if people hadn't felt separate from their egos. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. That is probably because you don't try to *make* it special with you, or characterize yourself as special because you've had such experience. Others should learn from your example. :-) You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. Agreed. It's a convenient shorthand to use on a forum like this one, where many people have not been exposed to other, possibly more precise ways of describing the experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. NOT in terms of the experiences themselves, just in terms of the mythical side effects that spiritual traditions claim for such experiences. They're supposed to make you all good and happy and life-supported and all that. I've never bought that, and suspect that there is no connection between these types of experience and behavior. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be wrong to that person. NO map is ever the territory. In retrospect a scheme might even seem more on point than when one was on the path, because when you are on the path, you do not really know what you are headed for, or even where you are, and a benchmark isn't a specific experience, it is an general category of experience so making a mistake in interpreting what is going on is certainly a reasonable assumption. Even the belief in a scheme might be useful just to keep you going. My experiences were in some ways anomalous and that led to much doubt. I went through a long period where I did not want to read anything about spiritual development, meditating all the while, but just not interested in hearing about or discussing it. Also run-of-the-mill TM discussions can be incredibly boring. Tell me about it. :-) At any point in a spiritual
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
OMFG get a clue, next time please keep your intellectual vomit to yourselves no one other than my deluded Aunt Share even pays attention to your bullshit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Do you realize Grandpa Xeno how psychopathically deranged your experiences sound? You are too alienated emotionally, psychologically - god I felt so sick reading your vomit. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be wrong to that person. In retrospect a scheme might even seem more on point than when one was on the path, because when you are on the path, you do not really know what you are headed for, or even where you are, and a benchmark isn't a specific experience, it is an general category of experience so making a mistake in interpreting what is going on is certainly a reasonable assumption. Even the belief in a scheme might be useful just to keep you going. My experiences were in some ways anomalous and that led to much doubt. I went through a long period where I did not want to read anything about spiritual development, meditating all the while, but just not interested in hearing about or discussing it. Also run-of-the-mill TM discussions can be incredibly boring. At any point in a spiritual path all one really needs is information that applies directly to what one's experience or experiences are just at that time, and not any other drivel; it does not always
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Xeno and turq, great discussion here and 2 points: first, my understanding of neti neti is that it's a phase on the spiritual path when one is subtly recognizing what enlightenment is NOT in terms of experience rather than theories as presented below. This phase is followed by another which could be characterized by the words: and this also, and this also. Secondly, I personally find Maharishi's teaching great exactly because it is so simple and allows for wide variety of experience. As a map it gives, IMO, great overall directions which frees up one's attention and allows a person to enjoy the scenery all along the way. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. snip An argument that will be lost on many here. The *most* common description of long-term TMers one encounters out in the larger spiritual marketplace is Stuck in their heads. They've been given SO many maps that they have lost touch with the fact that at best they were crude representations of a territory, and in most cases one they've never walked. Bear in mind that when dealing with enlightenment, one is ultimately not dealing with rational discourse, but dealing with a quality of life that underlies, so to speak, everything else in experience, one attempts to align with that, but one is not always able to apply the intellect to a situation because intellect is a subset of experience, kind of in its own little compartment; it handles attempting to organise verbal representations a wider world of experience, but is not that experience, it's a filter for that experience, which means something is cut out or blocked when it is use. Yup. What has often fascinated me is the number of supposed seekers who use intellectual understanding to *block* the very experience they're seeking. As far as I can tell, the more strongly people believe that they know what enlightenment is, the less likely they are to ever experience it. If you fail to align with the wider experience, you try again, and again. You are not polishing your intellect - it might improve, or even get worse. You are polishing something you cannot even see, kind of like a seagull riding the currents of the air, learning to gracefully move on a bedrock of mystery. I would characterize what you are describing more in terms of neti neti -- trying on different theories and then discarding them, one after another. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
but but but Ravi, Xeno wrote this in reply to your aunt Judy! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: OMFG get a clue, next time please keep your intellectual vomit to yourselves no one other than my deluded Aunt Share even pays attention to your bullshit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Do you realize Grandpa Xeno how psychopathically deranged your experiences sound? You are too alienated emotionally, psychologically - god I felt so sick reading your vomit. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be wrong to that person. In retrospect a scheme might even seem more on point than when one was on the path, because when you are on the path, you do not really know what you are headed for, or even where you are, and a benchmark isn't a specific experience, it is an general category of experience so making a mistake in interpreting what is going on is certainly a reasonable assumption. Even the belief in a scheme might be useful just to keep you going. My experiences were in some ways anomalous and that led to much doubt. I went through a long period where I did not want to read anything about spiritual development, meditating all the while, but just not interested in hearing about or
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Your claim poses itself as generalizable and universally true and therefore negates itself as a false claim. But who needs objectivity in mere thought? Just another belief system ... no doubt. That is all that *anyone* has, or has had, in *any* era of human existence. The attempt to portray one's subjective experience as objective or universal or even as something to be desired or aspired to is IMO sheer narcissism. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. That is all that *anyone* has, or has had, in *any* era of human existence. The attempt to portray one's subjective experience as objective or universal or even as something to be desired or aspired to is IMO sheer narcissism.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Is this what Grandpa Xeno had to say in his defense? Why can't he say so himself? Why does he need you to speak on his behalf? What do the doctors say - that it's acceptable behavior as long as the object of the deranged rant not a family member? It's very frustrating, there seems to be no end in sight to Grandpa's pathological behavior. P.S may be you were joking but Judy's not my aunt - YOU are, unless you are singing Grandpa tune? OMG - I hope not. On Aug 26, 2013, at 4:57 AM, sharelong60 sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: but but but Ravi, Xeno wrote this in reply to your aunt Judy! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: OMFG get a clue, next time please keep your intellectual vomit to yourselves no one other than my deluded Aunt Share even pays attention to your bullshit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Do you realize Grandpa Xeno how psychopathically deranged your experiences sound? You are too alienated emotionally, psychologically - god I felt so sick reading your vomit. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be wrong to that person. In retrospect a scheme might even seem more on point than when one was on the path, because when you are on the path, you do not really know what you are headed for, or even where you are, and a benchmark isn't a specific experience, it is an general category of experience so making a mistake in interpreting what
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this what Grandpa Xeno had to say in his defense? Why can't he say so himself? Why does he need you to speak on his behalf? What do the doctors say - that it's acceptable behavior as long as the object of the deranged rant not a family member? It's very frustrating, there seems to be no end in sight to Grandpa's pathological behavior. P.S may be you were joking but Judy's not my aunt - YOU are, unless you are singing Grandpa tune? OMG - I hope not. On Aug 26, 2013, at 4:57 AM, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: but but but Ravi, Xeno wrote this in reply to your aunt Judy! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: OMFG get a clue, next time please keep your intellectual vomit to yourselves no one other than my deluded Aunt Share even pays attention to your bullshit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Do you realize Grandpa Xeno how psychopathically deranged your experiences sound? You are too alienated emotionally, psychologically - god I felt so sick reading your vomit. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be wrong to that person. In retrospect a scheme might even seem more on point than when one was on the
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. EB, you are always scolding someone. Now you're sounding like Buck, at least in your intention to silence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this what Grandpa Xeno had to say in his defense? Why can't he say so himself? Why does he need you to speak on his behalf? What do the doctors say - that it's acceptable behavior as long as the object of the deranged rant not a family member? It's very frustrating, there seems to be no end in sight to Grandpa's pathological behavior. P.S may be you were joking but Judy's not my aunt - YOU are, unless you are singing Grandpa tune? OMG - I hope not. On Aug 26, 2013, at 4:57 AM, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: but but but Ravi, Xeno wrote this in reply to your aunt Judy! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: OMFG get a clue, next time please keep your intellectual vomit to yourselves no one other than my deluded Aunt Share even pays attention to your bullshit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Do you realize Grandpa Xeno how psychopathically deranged your experiences sound? You are too alienated emotionally, psychologically - god I felt so sick reading your vomit. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Is this how the innocence, beauty and playfulness of Krishna comes across to you oh empty Rakshasaa? On Aug 26, 2013, at 7:12 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: Raviola Yer like a teenage boy high on meth. Stop sounding like a fool ... fool. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Is this what Grandpa Xeno had to say in his defense? Why can't he say so himself? Why does he need you to speak on his behalf? What do the doctors say - that it's acceptable behavior as long as the object of the deranged rant not a family member? It's very frustrating, there seems to be no end in sight to Grandpa's pathological behavior. P.S may be you were joking but Judy's not my aunt - YOU are, unless you are singing Grandpa tune? OMG - I hope not. On Aug 26, 2013, at 4:57 AM, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: but but but Ravi, Xeno wrote this in reply to your aunt Judy! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: OMFG get a clue, next time please keep your intellectual vomit to yourselves no one other than my deluded Aunt Share even pays attention to your bullshit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: Do you realize Grandpa Xeno how psychopathically deranged your experiences sound? You are too alienated emotionally, psychologically - god I felt so sick reading your vomit. On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. [to Dr Dumbass] Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. First-person ontology is the thing that enlightenment gets rid of, I question this and every other statement you've made in this post that you apply across the board, as opposed to describing your own experience. I am describing my own experience. That is all I have. There is just experience. Not experiences, with an 's', but experience, singular. Experience*s* are like sub directories or folders on a computer. It is not uncommon these days, others on this forum certainly seem to be experiencing something similar. There are a number of people in Fairfield having this kind of experience. And, I am confident, many others in all walks of life having these experiences. It is in the air. It is not just a matter of TM, there are lots of groups and people bent on awakening and succeeding. I say these things across the board because that is the way I experience these things and there is some support in the environment for this way of describing human experience in long term meditators. None of this is special with me. You have every prerogative to question (although you have not actually questioned anything above, you have only stated that you question it). Mapping out benchmarks for spiritual development is a minefield because as you said, 'I think there are likely many exceptions and anomalies', so there are people who are not going to fit the mold. My outline using the terms M used is just one way one could try to map general categories of experience. For example, Charles Manson shows a number of characteristics of unity if we examine his statements, but he is also insane, a psychopath, and lacks certain characteristics that a presumably normal person would have, so he would be a significant outlier in any scheme that purports to categorise enlightenment benchmarks. I have a collection of Classical music recordings. I always have trouble trying to shelf them in some coherent way. My system here is generally by time period and the composer's name, using the date of death as a marker within a time period and beyond that I can remember where most composers lie on the time line. I think M's scheme for enlightenment is workable for many people, it is more detailed than some schemes, but in the end any scheme turns out to be nonsense, but it has applicability for giving one a bearing while on the path. If a person's experience is anomalous, a scheme will appear to be wrong to that person. In retrospect a scheme might even seem more on point than when one was on the path, because when you are on the path, you do not really know what you are headed for, or even where you are, and a benchmark isn't a specific experience, it is an general category of experience so making a mistake in interpreting what is going on is certainly a reasonable assumption. Even the belief in a scheme might be useful just to keep you going. My experiences were in some ways anomalous and that led to much doubt. I went through a long period where I did not want to read anything about spiritual development, meditating all the while, but just not interested in hearing about or discussing it. Also run-of-the-mill TM discussions can be incredibly boring. At any point in a spiritual path all one really needs is information that applies directly to what one's experience or experiences are just at that time, and not any other drivel; it does not always work to apply cookie cutter templates. The TM movement does not really want you to look at other stuff, but eventually that is what helped me most; I took complete control of my 'program' away from the movement over time because it failed to provide the information I needed when I needed it. I experimented and researched. But eventually it was kind of full circle, I ended up reading about things that initially propelled me on the journey, and found answers to questions I could not find easily within the TM org and TM teachers. What
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. One way trip to where? What is this you discover you are and that's it? On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: ** --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
What is this stubbornness emptybill? You are saying you will use the experiences of someone, the context, the narrative of someone from thousands of years ago as the yardstick for someone who has mystical experiences now - in this modern age? Do you think Advaita Vedanta is an actual insight into reality? Is proposing a model of reality? Or is it merely a technique or a philosophy? On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: ** Those claiming enlightenment should be able to offer comparative proof based upon something other than their own subjectivity or my guru/former guru sez. However, not only Robin but you also seem willfully uninformed about the subject as described by the texts of traditional advaita. Thus you ask - *What good would it (have done/now do) to examine his experiences in light of other descriptions. * Other descriptions are incidental since they are experiential and can not possibly self-certify knowledge. He might have compared his actual situation with knowledge in Vedanta and realized that no process of experience could ever *be *liberation nor could it ever *give *liberation or some so-called enlightenment. Were he was not indulging in self-delusion, he might have tried to find out more. Then again he was not taught more - nor apparently was he interested in learning more. --- *In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend ** wrote:* --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. * Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment.* Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. *Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi.* He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . * Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.*
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe. But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, He is Maharishi of course.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Xeno, reading Sam Harris is like drinking cool, clean water from a pristine, gurgling mountain stream. Thanks for posting. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:52 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Ironic that the neuroscientists are completely unfamiliar with their conscious minds *not* being in a constant state of thought. White rats, chasing other white rats. A few moments of their own mental peace might turn their attention away from always studying undeveloped minds. It as if science can do no better than to validate an immature state of the mind, because the limited awareness of the scientists, cannot see any further. What a total waste of time. Not true Dr. Sam Harris, a neuroscientist discusses some of this: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/whats-the-point-of-transcendence
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
PS to Xeno: but of course I can't help but wonder what Sam Harris would say about my earlier post this morning on the topic of fullness of fullness and fullness of emptiness! From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:52 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Ironic that the neuroscientists are completely unfamiliar with their conscious minds *not* being in a constant state of thought. White rats, chasing other white rats. A few moments of their own mental peace might turn their attention away from always studying undeveloped minds. It as if science can do no better than to validate an immature state of the mind, because the limited awareness of the scientists, cannot see any further. What a total waste of time. Not true Dr. Sam Harris, a neuroscientist discusses some of this: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/whats-the-point-of-transcendence
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. One way trip to where? What is this you discover you are and that's it? Sorry for the late reply, Ravi. It's a one-way trip to silence, ie no more rebirths. You discover or realise your self. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] RE: How the deluded see the world....
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. --- iranitea no_reply@ wrote: Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. --- authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present. Which means he was never enlightened in the past. Please note, he also claimed that Khomeni was enlightened. He even seemed to imply that his E was hindu type and Khomeni's E was islamic type.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yeah the whole deal with Unity SOC, is that it is still in terms of me. *I* see the world in terms of myself. *I* see and experience oneness in the world. But it is an intermediate step, and was never meant to seem permanent. By associating in Unity with everything experienced, eventually that budges and de-localizes the sense of me. Then experience becomes truly the fullness moving that you mention. Expansion of perception then becomes the single variable in a life lived of unbounded awareness. UC was never a goal, always a bus stop. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- cardemaister@... wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... I think you nailed it Cardeboy. It's like asking a man to go back into his mother's womb. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. --- iranitea no_reply@... wrote: Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. --- authfriend@... wrote: Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
That's allright Emily. Robin is really a warm, friendly, kind, compasssionate person. The point is I was making an assessment objectively as possible. This dosen't make him any less of a human being. He too is a seeker like the rest of us. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Jason, I concede to ignorance on the matter of enlightenment. Now, an enlightenment experience is something else altogether in my mind. My conscience had a pang (I'd like to call it a moment of enlightenment) on my drive towards the ocean today (my life is like a milk run - I have so many stops I can never get anywhere) and I'd like to apologize for the rude and crude term (pull your head out of your ass) I used. I was channeling my father on that one, but as I'm trying to teach my children that they can't blame *everything* on their mother, I will give dear old dad a break on this. I won't say that one again - even to Barry. I could also blame my rudeness on the cup of coffee, the upset within over the situation in Syria, or the idea that I find the discussion of whether or not Robin was enlightened, was never enlightened (according to certain criteria), is still enlightened and doesn't know it, etc. etc., kind of pointless. However, I'll just stick with the apology and tell you that I'm sorry I was such a jerk. Emily. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Sounds good - please pass this along to those practicing the sidhi techniques! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I think they know it already. And like the rest of us, doing their best to live this knowing in life (-: From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:24 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world Sounds good - please pass this along to those practicing the sidhi techniques! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened, the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: That's allright Emily. Robin is really a warm, friendly, kind, compasssionate person. Yes. Thank you for making that point, Jason. One would never know this from the way some here go after him, though. The point is I was making an assessment objectively as possible. This dosen't make him any less of a human being. He too is a seeker like the rest of us. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Jason, I concede to ignorance on the matter of enlightenment. Now, an enlightenment experience is something else altogether in my mind. My conscience had a pang (I'd like to call it a moment of enlightenment) on my drive towards the ocean today (my life is like a milk run - I have so many stops I can never get anywhere) and I'd like to apologize for the rude and crude term (pull your head out of your ass) I used. I was channeling my father on that one, but as I'm trying to teach my children that they can't blame *everything* on their mother, I will give dear old dad a break on this. I won't say that one again - even to Barry. I could also blame my rudeness on the cup of coffee, the upset within over the situation in Syria, or the idea that I find the discussion of whether or not Robin was enlightened, was never enlightened (according to certain criteria), is still enlightened and doesn't know it, etc. etc., kind of pointless. However, I'll just stick with the apology and tell you that I'm sorry I was such a jerk. Emily. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
excuses, excuses! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I think they know it already. And like the rest of us, doing their best to live this knowing in life (-: From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:24 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Sounds good - please pass this along to those practicing the sidhi techniques! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world àTo your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world Ãâà--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I wasn't aware that we disagreed on what the nature of that more is? Can you explain, please? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Does Judy go to the Dome? I am confused. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: I've never seen anyone in the Dome with a map out! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I've never seen anyone in the Dome with a map out! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I don't think the more in UC has to do with identity. I think in CC the identity is already infinite. But not perception, and there is duality between that and the finest relative in GC. In UC the duality drops away. In Brahman it drops away not only in terms of the first object of perception but for all of them. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I wasn't aware that we disagreed on what the nature of that more is? Can you explain, please? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman One of my all-time favorite formulas! (Or stories, if you prefer) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Dom, dom, I think he meant, nap out. Typo, I guess. ;) One sees lots of napping in the domes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: I've never seen anyone in the Dome with a map out! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: Dom, dom, I think he meant, nap out. Typo, I guess. ;) One sees lots of napping in the domes. Ayuh. And brain-farts, too, IIRC, at least in the men's dome. I hear the women are too lady-like for that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. --- iranitea no_reply@ wrote: Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. (Just for the record, iranitea's reply is meaningless in the context of what he was commenting on. He knows that but was just trying to be clever.) --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present. Which means he was never enlightened in the past. Maybe, maybe not. Please note, he also claimed that Khomeni was enlightened. Um, yes, did you think I wasn't aware of this? He even seemed to imply that his E was hindu type and Khomeni's E was islamic type. Sort of, yes. Different religious contexts. And...? You know, it's just so *foolish* for anyone here to try to discern what it was that happened to Robin some 36 years ago. It's foolish *in general* for any of us to try to determine another person's state of consciousness. We just are not in a position to know when the only actual *data* we have are what the person him/herself says about his/her subjective experience. And it's even more of a limitation when that data is in the form of words on a monitor screen, rather than a live encounter with the person himself. What is truly ludicrous--infantile, in fact, not to mention obnoxious--is to argue with or even *attack* a person for describing his subjective experience as enlightenment, as if you could possibly know more about the nature of what he experienced than he does on the basis of your book-larnin' (or even your own experiences). Jason, you said in your post to Emily that you were just trying to be objective. Well, you really can't *be* objective about another person's *subjective* state. Seems to me the appropriate stance toward a person who has made a claim of enlightenment, currently or in the past, is a neutral one, without judgment one way or the other. Just accept what the person says for what it is, asking questions if what the person says is unclear. Don't try to stuff them into some box to fit *your* understanding of what enlightenment is and isn't, no matter how many ancient texts you've studied. And don't sell the universe--nature--short. There's more than one way to skin a cat, more ways than any of us are able to imagine. I would go so far as to say that no two individuals have ever developed enlightenment the same way, or experienced it the same way once it was developed. Enlightenment just isn't *conceptual*.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Well as Shrek would say, better out than in! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: Dom, dom, I think he meant, nap out. Typo, I guess. ;) One sees lots of napping in the domes. Ayuh. And brain-farts, too, IIRC, at least in the men's dome. I hear the women are too lady-like for that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. That isn't what I'm saying either. Never mind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
In the Veda is written Brahman says: my indestructible maya Maybe the world is simply God's self deluded brain fart! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Thanks, Share, Brain farts made me think of combustion. Does belief make this happen, or is it just a spontaneous en-lighting experience? http://in.screen.yahoo.com/baby-catches-fire-own-173000572.html http://in.screen.yahoo.com/baby-catches-fire-own-173000572.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 wrote: In the Veda is written Brahman says: my indestructible maya Maybe the world is simply God's self deluded brain fart! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
You can take that up with Krishna. PS The Gita has a lot of Chapters, doesn't it? - 18 or something. Yeah, the space between CC and UC is almost insignificant, given that both are ego trips. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
A Tattoo?? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman One of my all-time favorite formulas! (Or stories, if you prefer) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
OK. I personally greatly enjoyed the story of the seven states of consciousness - Kept me occupied for years, as I continued TM, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. That isn't what I'm saying either. Never mind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
What? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
ooops...:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Yeah, a lot of chapters. But I think that thing about being without the three gunas is in chapter 2. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: You can take that up with Krishna. PS The Gita has a lot of Chapters, doesn't it? - 18 or something. Yeah, the space between CC and UC is almost insignificant, given that both are ego trips. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yeah, a lot of chapters. But I think that thing about being without the three gunas is in chapter 2. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: You can take that up with Krishna. PS The Gita has a lot of Chapters, doesn't it? - 18 or something. Yeah, the space between CC and UC is almost insignificant, given that both are ego trips. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
