subject:"Re\: \[FairfieldLife\] Re\: Yogic flying \?\?\?"


On Nov 29, 2006, at 12:55 AM, pranamoocher wrote:


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   
  snip
And, no, of course that's not what the fourth is. The fourth
is not taught in TM or the TM siddhi program, nor have they
identified it correctly in research that is published. Of
course they want you to believe they have.
  
   Guffaw. TM researchers have never mentioned 'the fourth
   pranayama in any research or discussion that I have heard.
 
  Nor is it taught, at least not that I've ever heard.
 
  Of course, I notice you neatly snipt the original Yoga Sutra
   context where the term fourth occurs in the context of pranayama
  and don't address my
   points save to say that's not it.
  
   Hard to say what it is when you won't even keep the original YS
  sutra 2;50-51 in the
   thread. Is it, well, because you can't argue my point?
 
  Vaj has dug himself a big hole here in his never-
  ending attempts to appear knowledgeable and spiritually
  superior. This particular attempt has highlighted his
  limitations and pretensions in that regard especially
  clearly.
 
  Is he smart enough to stop digging? We'll see.
  The problem I have seen with YF Exhibitions and the public  
 perception of this is simply that the same physically built people  
 are always chosen:  skinny or lean, flexible enough to sit in full  
 lotus and hit the mats again and again. Heavier and inflexible  
 hoppers are never shown simply because they can't physically lift  
 off to the same heights and with the same finesse their lighter  
 counterparts can.  Tme and again, from Sidhis courses to WPA's, to  
 group flying sessions, it's always the lighter flexible people who  
 move the most.  From what I've seen over the years, the heavier  
 inflexible people can seriously injure themselves by hopping with  
 the same effort as their physically superior counterparts do,  
 flopping their half lotus or trailing legs up and then crashing  
 down. I'm not doubting the inner experience of sidhas, but it is  
 apparent that weight, flexibility and body dynamics factor the most  
 in flying appearances.  Anyone seen different?

No. In fact many people were using various devices--I had one called  
a happy landings cushion--to aid in my but landing and to prevent  
bottoming out. I'd bet yogic flying supports quite few Chiropractors.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:44 PM, sparaig wrote:

Guffaw. TM researchers  have never mentioned 'the fourth pranayama  
in any research or
discussion that I have heard. Of course, I notice you neatly snipt  
the original Yoga Sutra
context where the term fourth  occurs in the context of pranayama  
and don't address my

points save to say that's not it.

Hard to say what it is when you won't even keep the original YS  
sutra 2;50-51 in the

thread. Is it, well, because you can't argue my point?



What was your question?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video


On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:49 PM, sparaig wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:39 PM, sparaig wrote:


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:



 On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:29 PM, sparaig wrote:


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:



 On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:50 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:


 Dude, you've never even *done* the flying technique! lol!


 Not only have I, I was a successful hopper.


 What you
 have written has nothing specific to do with the flying sutra.
 Pranayama!? That is just absurd- I did pranayama before  
 meditation
 for years prior to meditation and never a hint of hopping or
 movement.


 Pranayama in it's deeper sense is a yama or pause--a gap--in the
 breath, that often coincides with Pure Consciousness. If this gap
 does not occur, even briefly in a flash, the prana can never
 have the
 door it needs to hop.


 So it is prana that is hopping, rather than the body? The prana
 is what is important rather
 than pure consciousness? YFers hopping about stabilizes prana but
 doesn't stabilize pure
 consciousness?


 No it is not prana hopping, it's the side effect of prana  
 entering
 the muladhara-chakra and what happens when it touches apana-vayu.
 That's all.


 Er, yeah. So what is the physiological correlate of all of this?



 That's not to say that prana is not important...



 Where's the research on breath suspension using Buddhist  
 meditation
 techniques, BTW?



 Was I supposed to be looking for some?

 A teacher of mine did some casual experiment though and I was
 impressed. In the longer pauses it's not so much a pause as  
 it is
 a very, very long in and out-breath. I'm not sure if there is any
 recent research on the real long suspensions--hour and days. But  
 I'm
 really less and less wowed by objective research. I'd much rather
 sit next to someone who does do such a long suspension and then  
 talk
 to them.


 As I have pointed out many times, there ARE TM studies on this
 phenomenon. It isn't a
 long in and out breath thing though, it is a sustained out-breath
 where the diaphram
 apparently relaxes to its normal position. Respiration continues,
 however, apparently due
 to air circulating because the heart is compressing/decompressing
 the sides of the lungs.


 That's because it's so brief. This phenomenon is well known to yogis,
 but is just an good sign you're getting ready for the fourth.

 It should absolutely not be confused with the fourth pranayama--even
 if someone tries to sell it to you as such (which it appears someone
 has!).

 These minor apneas should be of little interest to serious  
 scientists.



 So where is the research on the fourth done by serious scientists?'


Some old research and more modern research on tummo (inner heat)  
meditation which mastery of requires inner perfection of the fourth  
pranayama.  This is why modern research on these yogis shows they are  
able to lower their metabolic rates many times more than simple  
meditation (e.g. TM). As we'd discussed this before, I guess I  
assumed you remembered--or more likely, conveniently forgot.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:45 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




On Nov 28, 2006, at 8:55 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote:



It's a key part of the YS.



jstein wrote:


But for some odd reason, Vaj is unable to cite it.


Vaj isn't the only person on this forum having trouble citing  
things.





I prefer oral transmission to written--but if you wanted a written
transmission for the 4th, I'd find a pandit or yogi who knows the
Yoga-Siddhanta-Chandrika comments to the YS.




I just quoted the YS 2:51 which is the source of the fourth  
pranayama ACCORDING TO YOU.
You snipt it rather than addressing the issue head-on. Now why is  
that, I wonder...



What was it you wanted to know?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video

2006-11-29 Thread llundrub

What was it you wanted to know?

-Exactly. What was the point of all this tattle telling?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 29, 2006, at 9:15 AM, llundrub wrote:


What was it you wanted to know?

-Exactly. What was the point of all this tattle telling?



Who knows.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video

2006-11-29 Thread llundrub

I haven't been this close to playing in the sandbox since I was small.  This 
group usually reminds me of this comedy skit where a bunch of powerful people 
are all themselves as grade schoolers and we come to realize that it's funny 
because they're still the same. Nothing's changed!
  - Original Message - 
  From: Vaj 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:40 AM
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video




  On Nov 29, 2006, at 9:15 AM, llundrub wrote:


What was it you wanted to know?

-Exactly. What was the point of all this tattle telling?




  Who knows.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 29, 2006, at 2:09 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]


So where is the research on the fourth done by serious scientists?'




Some old research and more modern research on tummo (inner heat)
meditation which mastery of requires inner perfection of the fourth
pranayama.  This is why modern research on these yogis shows they are
able to lower their metabolic rates many times more than simple
meditation (e.g. TM). As we'd discussed this before, I guess I
assumed you remembered--or more likely, conveniently forgot.




Actually, that research has NEVER been replicated under laboratory  
conditions. And it doesn't
say squat about their state of consciousness, per se. Samadhi is a  
state of consciousness, not

some ability developed over decades of practice.



LOL, Veteran  meditation researcher Herbert Benson would disagree as  
he was the one who demonstrated there were much, much deeper  
metabolic changes than TM. TM was only 2% different than sleeping.  
It'll be interesting to see this repeated; but the really interesting  
thing is learning these practices ourselves--whether Hindu or  
Buddhist or whatever. The proof is in the pudding, not the research  
about the pudding!


You read the research, I'll eat the pudding.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 2:07 AM, anywho108 wrote:


This brings up something I've been pondering about yogic flying
which of course isn't flying at all. Although I've had the sutras for
many many years, I would like to hear some explanation of exactly what
bouncing around, or shaking, or whatever else people are doing has
anything to do with levitation.

I've always had the feeling that if tomorrow MMY said, okay, all this
hopping around isn't really necessary, then all of a sudden people
would stop hopping around.

What's the point?



It's a by product of either pranayama or the most elementary form of  
kundalini awakening.


There are basically three levels of  kundalini awakening: prana  
kundalini, cit kundalini and samashti kundalini.


Prana kundalini is usually experienced by jerking, hopping motions.  
It's what happens when kundalini awakens at the muladhara chakra.  
Kundalini then usually goes on to rise higher, but in the TMSP it is  
chronically and repeatedly invoked at this lower level. It also can  
provide minor, passing siddhis.


It's only when kundalini becomes cit kundalini at the heart chakra  
that the awakening process really begins to unfold. Once it reaches  
the third eye and samashti kundalini is awake, one is able to  
perceive from a unified level of consciousness.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:50 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:


Dude, you've never even *done* the flying technique! lol!


Not only have I, I was a successful hopper.


What you
have written has nothing specific to do with the flying sutra.
Pranayama!? That is just absurd- I did pranayama before meditation
for years prior to meditation and never a hint of hopping or
movement.


Pranayama in it's deeper sense is a yama or pause--a gap--in the  
breath, that often coincides with Pure Consciousness. If this gap  
does not occur, even briefly in a flash, the prana can never have the  
door it needs to hop.




The hopping is a response to the sutra introduced when the mind is
settled in transcendental consciousness. The sutras are introduced
following a period of TM. The hopping is an innocent result of the
specific sutra. If a different sutra is introduced, a different
result will occur.

The point of the flying sutra is to integrate silence and activity
within the nervous system. Because the flying sutra produces such a
dramatic effect, so is its effect on the nervous system. By
culturing the nervous system's ability to operate in activity while
remaining silent, the physiology of enlightement is brought about
over time.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 2:11 PM, nablusos108 wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:50 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:



Dude, you've never even *done* the flying technique! lol!



Not only have I, I was a successful hopper.



In what centre or on what course did you learn the sidhis, on what
date ? What was the name of your TM-Sidhi-instructor ?

BTW, what is your definition of an successful hopper ?



Someone who could successfully hop.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 1:58 PM, nablusos108 wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




On Nov 28, 2006, at 2:07 AM, anywho108 wrote:



This brings up something I've been pondering about yogic flying
which of course isn't flying at all. Although I've had the sutras


for


many many years, I would like to hear some explanation of exactly


what


bouncing around, or shaking, or whatever else people are doing has
anything to do with levitation.

I've always had the feeling that if tomorrow MMY said, okay, all


this


hopping around isn't really necessary, then all of a sudden people
would stop hopping around.

What's the point?




It's a by product of either pranayama or the most elementary form


of


kundalini awakening.

There are basically three levels of  kundalini awakening: prana
kundalini, cit kundalini and samashti kundalini.

Prana kundalini is usually experienced by jerking, hopping


motions.


It's what happens when kundalini awakens at the muladhara chakra.
Kundalini then usually goes on to rise higher, but in the TMSP it


is


chronically and repeatedly invoked at this lower level. It also


can


provide minor, passing siddhis.

It's only when kundalini becomes cit kundalini at the heart chakra
that the awakening process really begins to unfold. Once it


reaches


the third eye and samashti kundalini is awake, one is able to
perceive from a unified level of consciousness.



What a bunch of hilarious nonsense. From day 3 of starting the flying-
sutra the kundalini in my body went straight upp through the whole
bode an poured out from the top of my head, and it stayed there for
long periods. This happened with many others also.

And then this Vaj fellow comes along claiming it is invoked on a low
level ?

I seriously do not think you have a clue of what the TM-Sidhis are
about Vaj. I also seriously doubdt that you ever lerarned TM. And if
you learned, I do not think you understood any of it.


Kundalini went my body went straight upp through the whole bode an  
poured out from the top of my head or prana-kundalini did?


Do you know the difference? One is the essence of the other.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:18 PM, sparaig wrote:

The yogattava upanishad mentions pranayama just before it mentions  
levitation. It is
unclear TO ME at least as to whether or not this is meant to say  
that the only way to
perform levitation is using pranayama or even if it is meant to  
imply that pranayama, as a
practice (rather than as breath-suspension associated with samadhi)  
leads to levitation.



For all siddhis, the secret is to master the fourth pranayama. You  
see the same thing in Buddhist tantra and Hindu tantra.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:29 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:50 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:


Dude, you've never even *done* the flying technique! lol!


Not only have I, I was a successful hopper.


What you
have written has nothing specific to do with the flying sutra.
Pranayama!? That is just absurd- I did pranayama before meditation
for years prior to meditation and never a hint of hopping or
movement.


Pranayama in it's deeper sense is a yama or pause--a gap--in the
breath, that often coincides with Pure Consciousness. If this gap
does not occur, even briefly in a flash, the prana can never have the
door it needs to hop.


So it is prana that is hopping, rather than the body? The prana  
is what is important rather
than pure consciousness? YFers hopping about stabilizes prana but  
doesn't stabilize pure

consciousness?


No it is not prana hopping, it's the side effect of prana entering  
the muladhara-chakra and what happens when it touches apana-vayu.  
That's all.


That's not to say that prana is not important...



Where's the research on breath suspension using Buddhist meditation  
techniques, BTW?



Was I supposed to be looking for some?

A teacher of mine did some casual experiment though and I was  
impressed. In the longer pauses it's not so much a pause as it is  
a very, very long in and out-breath. I'm not sure if there is any  
recent research on the real long suspensions--hour and days. But I'm  
really less and less wowed by objective research. I'd much rather  
sit next to someone who does do such a long suspension and then talk  
to them.


IMO it's finding out your own inner signs that's ultimate.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 5:46 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:18 PM, sparaig wrote:


The yogattava upanishad mentions pranayama just before it mentions
levitation. It is
unclear TO ME at least as to whether or not this is meant to say
that the only way to
perform levitation is using pranayama or even if it is meant to
imply that pranayama, as a
practice (rather than as breath-suspension associated with samadhi)
leads to levitation.



For all siddhis, the secret is to master the fourth pranayama. You
see the same thing in Buddhist tantra and Hindu tantra.



Er, what is the fourth pranayama?



It's a key part of the YS.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video

2006-11-28 Thread llundrub

Crowley levitated for two hours after doing serious kumbhakam.  As detailed in 
his small book on yoga. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Vaj 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video

  On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:18 PM, sparaig wrote:

The yogattava upanishad mentions pranayama just before it mentions 
levitation. It is 
unclear TO ME at least as to whether or not this is meant to say that the 
only way to 
perform levitation is using pranayama or even if it is meant to imply that 
pranayama, as a 
practice (rather than as breath-suspension associated with samadhi) leads 
to levitation.

  For all siddhis, the secret is to master the fourth pranayama. You see the 
same thing in Buddhist tantra and Hindu tantra.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video

He also claimed to find Alan Bennett locked in padmasana, tipped over  
from levitating and landing wrong.


On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:55 PM, llundrub wrote:

Crowley levitated for two hours after doing serious kumbhakam.  As  
detailed in his small book on yoga.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:55 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On Nov 28, 2006, at 5:46 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:



On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:18 PM, sparaig wrote:


The yogattava upanishad mentions pranayama just before it mentions
levitation. It is
unclear TO ME at least as to whether or not this is meant to say
that the only way to
perform levitation is using pranayama or even if it is meant to
imply that pranayama, as a
practice (rather than as breath-suspension associated with  
samadhi)

leads to levitation.



For all siddhis, the secret is to master the fourth pranayama.  
You

see the same thing in Buddhist tantra and Hindu tantra.



Er, what is the fourth pranayama?



It's a key part of the YS.



Neatly side-stepping the question.

The fourth pranayama is taken from YS 2:50-51. Of course, it is  
easy to see that
fourth (caturthaþ) in this context is a play on words with  
reference to the fourth  state
of consciousness already identified by Patanjali: turya/TC/ 
samadhi. The TM research on
breath suspension during samadhi/TC is certainly relevant to this  
discussion, and in fact,
the detailed analysis found in Kesterson's research reveals why  
2:51 is important and what

it actually means.



And, no, of course that's not what the fourth is. The fourth is not  
taught in TM or the TM siddhi program, nor have they identified it  
correctly in research that is published. Of course they want you to  
believe they have.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 8:55 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote:


It's a key part of the YS.


jstein wrote:

But for some odd reason, Vaj is unable to cite it.


Vaj isn't the only person on this forum having trouble citing things.



I prefer oral transmission to written--but if you wanted a written  
transmission for the 4th, I'd find a pandit or yogi who knows the  
Yoga-Siddhanta-Chandrika comments to the YS.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:55 PM, sparaig wrote:


Rather a cryptic sutra.



Not to yogis from the tradition. If it's not crystal clear, question  
the person telling or selling.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying video



On Nov 28, 2006, at 6:39 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On Nov 28, 2006, at 4:29 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:



On Nov 28, 2006, at 10:50 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:


Dude, you've never even *done* the flying technique! lol!


Not only have I, I was a successful hopper.


What you
have written has nothing specific to do with the flying sutra.
Pranayama!? That is just absurd- I did pranayama before meditation
for years prior to meditation and never a hint of hopping or
movement.


Pranayama in it's deeper sense is a yama or pause--a gap--in the
breath, that often coincides with Pure Consciousness. If this gap
does not occur, even briefly in a flash, the prana can never  
have the

door it needs to hop.


So it is prana that is hopping, rather than the body? The prana
is what is important rather
than pure consciousness? YFers hopping about stabilizes prana but
doesn't stabilize pure
consciousness?


No it is not prana hopping, it's the side effect of prana entering
the muladhara-chakra and what happens when it touches apana-vayu.
That's all.


Er, yeah. So what is the physiological correlate of all of this?



That's not to say that prana is not important...



Where's the research on breath suspension using Buddhist meditation
techniques, BTW?



Was I supposed to be looking for some?

A teacher of mine did some casual experiment though and I was
impressed. In the longer pauses it's not so much a pause as it is
a very, very long in and out-breath. I'm not sure if there is any
recent research on the real long suspensions--hour and days. But I'm
really less and less wowed by objective research. I'd much rather
sit next to someone who does do such a long suspension and then talk
to them.


As I have pointed out many times, there ARE TM studies on this  
phenomenon. It isn't a
long in and out breath thing though, it is a sustained out-breath  
where the diaphram
apparently relaxes to its normal position. Respiration continues,  
however, apparently due
to air circulating because the heart is compressing/decompressing  
the sides of the lungs.


That's because it's so brief. This phenomenon is well known to yogis,  
but is just an good sign you're getting ready for the fourth.


It should absolutely not be confused with the fourth pranayama--even  
if someone tries to sell it to you as such (which it appears someone  
has!).


These minor apneas should be of little interest to serious scientists.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying ???

2006-07-06 Thread Rick Archer

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying ???





on 7/5/06 10:09 PM, johnlasher20002000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Michael Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
snip 
 Actually, I recall the claim as stating just prior to lift-off.

The graph shows the flying coherence as persisting over a period of
time, I think it's for ten minutes.

And the poster shows a woman flying about 40 feet across a room. It conveniently leaves out the landing shots, giving the impression that she flew that far in one hope

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic flying ???

2006-07-06 Thread Vaj

On Jul 6, 2006, at 7:11 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Snip " Making a poster that gives the appearance of the eventual outcome of the Yogic FLying technique (at least in MMY's belief) is a subtle way of establishing in the mind the goal of the technique, which is a necessary part of the process of the technique, from what MMY has said." snip That was really funny! You are being satirical about how a true believer would try to cover up a blatant misuse of science to attempt to deceive people right? "Establishing in the mind the goal", that was your best line! Nope. Deadly serious. As a Unitarian minister once commented about MMY's loose use of language about Yogic Flying in his world-wide publicity stunts and ads and so on: "he's trying to change the global paradigm." People can't fly not just because of their own state of conscioiusness and expectations, but because of the consciousness and expectations of the entire world, or such appears to be MMY's belief: The Laws of Nature [devas] active in the world are very stupid and need to be woken up. What a load of crap.According to both the YS and Tat Whale Baba's successor, it's not just about perfecting the "flying sutra", it's also about perfecting the sutra on the prana which allows one to sustain the experience (of floating/flying)--and most importantly knowing the oral instructions of how to bring this particular form of prana through a pranic conduit up into the skull (and the asanas/visualizations/breathing). The downside is that screwing up in this pranic force, esp. in bringing it into the "head" is that it is also also the prana that underlies thought. Screw it up and you go insane. True story.Don't kill the messenger.If you want to truly learn to leverage this siddhi for enlightenment (for yourself and others), you'd better have someone who knows this practice real handy. It's not just important to know how to do it, but how to know what to do when 'thing go awry'.There's a person on this list who can tell you more. He's been to meet these siddhas. R. can you share your experiences in Nepal? My apologies if I've said too much.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada



--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  on 10/18/05 2:49 AM, uns_tressor at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick
 Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   
   on 10/17/05 1:43 PM, Peter at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   Hey, I think the TM-Sidhi program is great and
 I'm not
   a TB by any stretch of the imagination. It
 took years
   of regular practice before I noticed anything
 though
   and then did I notice!!
   
   I practiced regularly for 25 years
   and didn't notice anything...
   
   What about the people around you? They are often
   the ones who notice the changes rather than
 ourselves.
   Uns.
  
  I'm sure that all those thousands of hours of
 practice had an 
 effect, but I
  never experienced a flavor or result on a sutra.
 
 
 How interesting. I was having flavor experiences
 for every one of 
 the sutras at one point or another during the
 course.

The sutras pull you into CC. The concrete results of
the sutras (i.e., a particular siddhi) are completely
secondary.



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Sal Sunshine

Chocolate or vanilla?  

On Oct 18, 2005, at 11:29 AM, sparaig wrote:

 > How interesting. I was having flavor experiences
 > for every one of 
 > the sutras at one point or another during the
 > course.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada



--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/18/05 2:12 PM, markmeredith2002 at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  A more useful discussion I think is the spiritual,
 mental, emotional
  and physical effect of long term shakti
 stimulation that goes on
  during YFing.  My current view is that short term
 it can break some
  rigid boundaries in all those areas for the good,
 but long term it
  causes too many imbalances, and that explains the
 pitiful condition of
  so many people you see in the domes.  What I've
 learnt thru some other
  spiritual-physical practices is that integration
 of shakti or chi is
  what's important and it doesn't seem to me that
 enough emphasis is put
  on how to integrate the energy flow in the
 tm-sidhis program.
 
 One thing I noticed when I used to go to the dome is
 that many of the long
 flyers seem quite bored with their practice. They
 spend a lot of time with
 eyes open, looking around, fooling around, having
 little pillow fights and
 playing little games - chasing each other, etc. You
 wonder how much genuine
 shakti is being stirred up.

F**king morons! They have no idea what they are
pissing away.


 
 
 
 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 
 
 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Vaj

On Oct 18, 2005, at 3:12 PM, markmeredith2002 wrote:A more useful discussion I think is the spiritual, mental, emotional and physical effect of long term shakti stimulation that goes on during YFing. My current view is that short term it can break some rigid boundaries in all those areas for the good, but long term it causes too many imbalances, and that explains the pitiful condition of so many people you see in the domes. What I've learnt thru some other spiritual-physical practices is that integration of shakti or chi is what's important and it doesn't seem to me that enough emphasis is put on how to integrate the energy flow in the tm-sidhis program. I believe this is a valid observation. There a number of prerequisites for levitation to occur, but even with those aside, if one hasn't balanced the elements internally, eventually you will pay the price. Yogis who practice prana-nadi-bindu, the yoga of prana, the conduits and the vital drops, call it a "sharp" path since it can really do harm if it is practiced incorrectly.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Rick Archer

on 10/18/05 2:23 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 One thing I noticed when I used to go to the dome is
 that many of the long
 flyers seem quite bored with their practice. They
 spend a lot of time with
 eyes open, looking around, fooling around, having
 little pillow fights and
 playing little games - chasing each other, etc. You
 wonder how much genuine
 shakti is being stirred up.
 
 F**king morons! They have no idea what they are
 pissing away.

I went through a stage of doing that stuff myself. The thing is, if you're
not deep, you should either get deep or stop wasting your time doing long
program.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada



--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/18/05 2:23 PM, Peter at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  One thing I noticed when I used to go to the dome
 is
  that many of the long
  flyers seem quite bored with their practice. They
  spend a lot of time with
  eyes open, looking around, fooling around, having
  little pillow fights and
  playing little games - chasing each other, etc.
 You
  wonder how much genuine
  shakti is being stirred up.
  
  F**king morons! They have no idea what they are
  pissing away.
 
 I went through a stage of doing that stuff myself.
 The thing is, if you're
 not deep, you should either get deep or stop wasting
 your time doing long
 program.

Exactly. Go do something else. Don't waste your time.
It's like the people who sleep in the dome all the
time. Just bizarre. As if they get some sort of cosmic
credit for showing-up.


 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada



--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 18, 2005, at 3:12 PM, markmeredith2002 wrote:
 
  A more useful discussion I think is the spiritual,
 mental, emotional
  and physical effect of long term shakti
 stimulation that goes on
  during YFing.  My current view is that short term
 it can break some
  rigid boundaries in all those areas for the good,
 but long term it
  causes too many imbalances, and that explains the
 pitiful condition of
  so many people you see in the domes.  What I've
 learnt thru some other
  spiritual-physical practices is that integration
 of shakti or chi is
  what's important and it doesn't seem to me that
 enough emphasis is put
  on how to integrate the energy flow in the
 tm-sidhis program.
 
 
 I believe this is a valid observation. There a
 number of  
 prerequisites for levitation to occur, but even with
 those aside, if  
 one hasn't balanced the elements internally,
 eventually you will pay  
 the price. Yogis who practice prana-nadi-bindu, the
 yoga of prana,  
 the conduits and the vital drops, call it a sharp
 path since it can  
 really do harm if it is practiced incorrectly.

Seems like all yogis have this perspective. They
always warn about the perils of directly manipulating
prana through specific nadis. Apparently some possible
side effects are irreversible. 




 
 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Rick Archer

on 10/18/05 2:29 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Exactly. Go do something else. Don't waste your time.
 It's like the people who sleep in the dome all the
 time. Just bizarre. As if they get some sort of cosmic
 credit for showing-up.

I have a friend who was terrified of getting kicked out of the dome for
seeing saints because she loves the quality of sleep she gets there.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Sal Sunshine

I have a friend who went to the dome *because* it's such a great place to sleep, she said.  Cured her insomnia every time. :)

Sal


On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Peter wrote:

 Exactly. Go do something else. Don't waste your time.
 It's like the people who sleep in the dome all the
 time. Just bizarre. As if they get some sort of cosmic
 credit for showing-up.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Paula Youmans











Most I hear of
warn of this to prevent a premature crown opening. 

It can really
land you in the nut house if you arent ready for itand Ive
also heard of possible death though Ive never known anyone who actually
dies because of it. 









*
Seems like all yogis have this perspective. They
always warn about the perils of directly
manipulating
prana through specific nadis. Apparently some
possible
side effects are irreversible. 



















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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Vaj


On Oct 18, 2005, at 3:31 PM, Peter wrote:



 --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On Oct 18, 2005, at 3:12 PM, markmeredith2002 wrote:


 A more useful discussion I think is the spiritual,

 mental, emotional

 and physical effect of long term shakti

 stimulation that goes on

 during YFing.  My current view is that short term

 it can break some

 rigid boundaries in all those areas for the good,

 but long term it

 causes too many imbalances, and that explains the

 pitiful condition of

 so many people you see in the domes.  What I've

 learnt thru some other

 spiritual-physical practices is that integration

 of shakti or chi is

 what's important and it doesn't seem to me that

 enough emphasis is put

 on how to integrate the energy flow in the

 tm-sidhis program.




 I believe this is a valid observation. There a
 number of
 prerequisites for levitation to occur, but even with
 those aside, if
 one hasn't balanced the elements internally,
 eventually you will pay
 the price. Yogis who practice prana-nadi-bindu, the
 yoga of prana,
 the conduits and the vital drops, call it a sharp
 path since it can
 really do harm if it is practiced incorrectly.


 Seems like all yogis have this perspective. They
 always warn about the perils of directly manipulating
 prana through specific nadis. Apparently some possible
 side effects are irreversible.

They call it prana disease. Of course if you are instructed  
properly, there's less chance of that. Most practice routines have an  
ending practice to remove the results of any errors.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada

2005-10-18 Thread Rick Archer

on 10/18/05 4:52 PM, anonymousff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Peter
 I was back in FF a few years ago for a year after a 14 year absence. I
 went to the dome for the first month I was back. The most amazing
 thing to me was that many of the same people who had been sleeping
 during program 14 years before were still sleeping during program. It
 was not very inspiring!

It's called the Rip Van Winkle effect.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogic Flying, was: press report: Peace Palace in Nova Scotia, Canada