[Finale] Need invisible chord anchors
When generating a lead sheet, it is often desirable to have chords that sequence under a fixed melody note. For example, you might have an 8 beat whole note wherea sequence ofchords are changing under it. This is not in keeping with the way finale anchors chords, since it the chord anchor must be on a tied note, note or rest. I have not seen any wayto anchor a chord to a note that's not in the staff. One can generate an artificial chord anchor by breaking a long note into tied notes, but that makes it awkwardto readthe music, and it's not good notation practice. I tried hanging chords onto alternate layers, but that means sticking notes into the score that don't belong, and I have not figured out how to suppress the printing out of the alternate layers. That really confuses things. Has anyone figured out a way around this? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Need invisible chord anchors
I usually put the chord rhythm in another layer using speedy entry and type the letter o on each note to hide the note. I then put my chords in. The only thing showing is the notes I want in layer one and the chords. Hope this helps. Rick Neal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When generating a lead sheet, it is often desirable to have chords that sequence under a *fixed* melody note. For example, you might have an 8 beat whole note where a sequence of chords are changing under it. This is not in keeping with the way finale anchors chords, since it the chord anchor must be on a tied note, note or rest. I have not seen any way to anchor a chord to a note that's not in the staff. One can generate an *artificial* chord anchor by breaking a long note into tied notes, but that makes it awkward to read the music, and it's not good notation practice. I tried hanging chords onto alternate layers, but that means sticking notes into the score that *don't belong*, and I have not figured out how to suppress the printing out of the alternate layers. That really confuses things. Has anyone figured out a way around this? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Rick Neal Teacher, Composer, Bassist, Guitarist [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Need invisible chord anchors
Bill, Select Show active layer only. Fill Layer 4 of measure 1 with quarter rests. Copy that measure to the rest of your document. Turn off Show active layer only. Enter your chords in Layer 4. Then apply the Staff Style Blank Notation (Layer 4) to the entire document. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 12 Jul 2005, at 2:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When generating a lead sheet, it is often desirable to have chords that sequence under a fixed melody note. For example, you might have an 8 beat whole note where a sequence of chords are changing under it. This is not in keeping with the way finale anchors chords, since it the chord anchor must be on a tied note, note or rest. I have not seen any way to anchor a chord to a note that's not in the staff. One can generate an artificial chord anchor by breaking a long note into tied notes, but that makes it awkward to read the music, and it's not good notation practice. I tried hanging chords onto alternate layers, but that means sticking notes into the score that don't belong, and I have not figured out how to suppress the printing out of the alternate layers. That really confuses things. Has anyone figured out a way around this? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 10:20 PM 7/11/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: There's some other message archive subscribed as well. Frankly, as long as SHSU isn't providing a proper searchable archive of their own, I see this as a good thing. Not I. I subscribed to a private list. I didn't. Not in the way you mean it: This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members - http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Nothing about the contents of messages not being available to non-members. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius - Dynamic Parts
At 2:46 PM -0400 7/11/05, David W. Fenton wrote: On 11 Jul 2005 at 2:01, Dennis W. Manasco wrote: I do however send back those little postage-paid upgrade offers every time I get one, with a note saying that I'd love to upgrade as soon as they get rid of the stupid tethered-copy-protection. I figure that since it's their dime I can make the effort to beat my favorite dead horse. Unfortunately, chances are good that no one at MakeMusic ever sees these, as these likely go to a contracted outside organzation for processing. The only thing you're doing to MakeMusic is costing them the postage. David, You are almost certainly correct. Though it is _possible_ that someone at Coda might be informed that upgrade notices are coming back with specific refusals. I thought this view implicit in my original post. Regardless, I consider this (_very_minor_) act of Civil Disobedience a useful, and worthwhile, ploy in the campaign to eventually eradicate phone-home copy-protection. It is one I employ against other agencies, for other reasons, as well Like I said: It's their dime. If they're going to offer it, I'll spend it to give them my opinion. If they don't read it, that's their problem. Best wishes, -=-Dennis . ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 10:56 PM 7/11/2005, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Not I. I subscribed to a private list. If this were a Yahoo group, that would be a different story. I'm not sure what the distinction is here. Anyone in the world can currently join this list. Once they join, they can in 5 minutes download the entire list archives. They can also download the entire list of subscribers. So how is this different from OpenSubscriber? Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 08:39 AM 7/12/05 +0100, Owain Sutton wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 10:20 PM 7/11/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: There's some other message archive subscribed as well. Frankly, as long as SHSU isn't providing a proper searchable archive of their own, I see this as a good thing. Not I. I subscribed to a private list. I didn't. Not in the way you mean it: This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members - http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Nothing about the contents of messages not being available to non-members. From the same page: To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Finale Archives. (The current archive is only available to the list members.) This is not about my email address. This is about my content. I did not expect a public archive, or else I'd be posting to the web forum. The extent of the 'contract' for posting is on the list info site, and nowhere is a public presentation of our postings suggested. There are several such services that post our comments publicly. More of these are cropping up, such as http://www.mail-archive.com/ and http://www.archivum.info/ I did not release my posts to the wider public, and nowhere did I give permission to do so via the list subscription page. It's incredible that the program(s) we talk about have copy protection all over them (with many folks on this list supporting that), yet our private intellectual property is stolen for public posting to the benefit of various website owners without permission or payment, perhaps even by list a list member. As far as I'm concerned, this is straight out intellectual property theft. I've received a response fro the opensubscriber.com website owner, who claims this list was subscribed to his robot. How did this happen? Who is our list owner these days? Or was this done by an individual on the list? Yes, I post my scores and parts and music and photos and essays on my websites, but I'm very vigorous about chasing down those who steal that material and repost it elsewhere. All I usually ask is permission and credit (except for commercial sites, which I bill). My posts are no different. Can someone shed some light on how these outside sites were subscribed to this list, and whether I should pursue having this material taken down? At 07:17 AM 7/12/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: I'm not sure what the distinction is here. Anyone in the world can currently join this list. Once they join, they can in 5 minutes download the entire list archives. They can also download the entire list of subscribers. So how is this different from OpenSubscriber? Private reading and writing is the purpose of the list. Reposting, for profit or not, is theft of content. With all the discussions we've had here on copy protection, that distinction should be clear. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Swing?
Can someone tell me how to specify swinging of 16th's and not 8th's? I have a slow Hip Hop section (quarter = 76) where the 8th's need to stay straight but the 16th's need to be bouncy. The swing function doesthe opposite. I can accomplish the task by writing it in "cut time" but that's not the way I want it to look. Any input? Jim ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 07:28 AM 7/12/2005, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: This is not about my email address. This is about my content. I did not expect a public archive, or else I'd be posting to the web forum. The extent of the 'contract' for posting is on the list info site, and nowhere is a public presentation of our postings suggested. Again, I really think this is splitting hairs. Since absolutely anyone in the world can subscribe and then read the entire list archives, our postings are already public, for all intents and purposes. I'm not arguing in favor of these archive sites (though I do like the search capabilities), I'm just saying that it doesn't matter to me because it doesn't expose anything that wasn't already exposed. If you disagree with this assessment, I'd be interested in hearing why. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 07:42 AM 7/12/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 07:28 AM 7/12/2005, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: This is not about my email address. This is about my content. I did not expect a public archive, or else I'd be posting to the web forum. The extent of the 'contract' for posting is on the list info site, and nowhere is a public presentation of our postings suggested. Again, I really think this is splitting hairs. Since absolutely anyone in the world can subscribe and then read the entire list archives, our postings are already public, for all intents and purposes. I'm not arguing in favor of these archive sites (though I do like the search capabilities), I'm just saying that it doesn't matter to me because it doesn't expose anything that wasn't already exposed. If you disagree with this assessment, I'd be interested in hearing why. Because I reserve the right to my creative work. That's the very basis for copyright protection, and the most elemental understanding of the ownership of my creative work. That I make something available at no charge does not mean that anyone else may then redistribute it. From websites to freeware, you'll see re-distribution without permission or conditions explicitly prohibited (a helpful but unnecessary notice). Intellectual property protection is not merely for the benefit of corporations. It subsists in my postings and in your postings and in everyone else's postings as well as in Finale's software -- or I could happily be posting Finale on my website. The exchange of money doesn't make MakeMusic's copyright somehow more important than yours or mine. The terms of my postings on this list are that it is, as it says on the subscription page, a private list. At no point did I hand over rights or give permission for third-party distribution of my writing, however inconsequential it may be -- not to opensubscriber.com or archivum.info or mail-archive.com, not to the list owner, and not through the list subscription contract itself. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Swing?
On Jul 12, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Jim Williamson wrote: Can someone tell me how to specify swinging of 16th's and not 8th's? I have a slow Hip Hop section (quarter = 76) where the 8th's need to stay straight but the 16th's need to be bouncy. The swing function does the opposite. I can accomplish the task by writing it in cut time but that's not the way I want it to look. Any input? I assume you're talking about playback only? I think you might be out of luck on this. But I agree that hip-hop 16ths would be a useful option in the playback, and I would certainly make that request to MakeMusic. In the meantime, I would write it as 16ths, print it out, then use Mass Edit>Change>Note Durations in combination with the Time Sig tool to change the passage to eighths, apply the Human Playback plugin to make them swing, and use that playback. Sorry for the bad news. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On Jul 12, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 07:42 AM 7/12/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: I'm just saying that it doesn't matter to me because it doesn't expose anything that wasn't already exposed. If you disagree with this assessment, I'd be interested in hearing why. Because I reserve the right to my creative work. That's the very basis for copyright protection, and the most elemental understanding of the ownership of my creative work. That I make something available at no charge does not mean that anyone else may then redistribute it. This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. I, on the other hand, have freely given away a bunch of my writings in the public domain, which is a different kettle of fish. But just because I don't care who re-distributes MY work doesn't mean that I don't support Dennis' point of view. Point made, I think. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 7/12/2005 09:13 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: I agree with Aaron. This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Otherwise he hasn't a leg to stand on, legally. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Swing?
Title: Re: [Finale] Swing? I know its not the greatest solution, but you can use the tempo tool to create the swing. Double-click a measure with the tempo tool. Click Set Swing... Click Duration Choose 16th Thatll swing it. Youll have to set tempo to No HP Effect in HP prefs if you are using Human Playback. On 7/12/05 8:07 AM, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] said this: On Jul 12, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Jim Williamson wrote: Can someone tell me how to specify swinging of 16th's and not 8th's? I have a slow Hip Hop section (quarter = 76) where the 8th's need to stay straight but the 16th's need to be bouncy. The swing function does the opposite. I can accomplish the task by writing it in cut time but that's not the way I want it to look. Any input? I assume you're talking about playback only? I think you might be out of luck on this. But I agree that hip-hop 16ths would be a useful option in the playback, and I would certainly make that request to MakeMusic. In the meantime, I would write it as 16ths, print it out, then use Mass EditChangeNote Durations in combination with the Time Sig tool to change the passage to eighths, apply the Human Playback plugin to make them swing, and use that playback. Sorry for the bad news. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Allen ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On Jul 12, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Phil Daley wrote: At 7/12/2005 09:13 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: I agree with Aaron. This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Otherwise he hasn't a leg to stand on, legally. I don't know about US copyright law, but in Canada copyright is applied automatically, with or without the notice. It's kind of like, this bicycle is mine, even if I DON'T put a sign on it saying so. The copyright notice is just a warning, or a courtesy, depending on your intentions. If he can prove he is the legal author, he has copyright to it, notice or not. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 09:27 AM 7/12/05 -0400, Phil Daley wrote: Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Otherwise he hasn't a leg to stand on, legally. Not quite. To initiate a lawsuit, registration is required. But since 1988, section 401a says that copyright notice may be placed on publicly distributed copies from which the work can be visually perceived. This was substituted for shall be placed on, and follows the silent notice concept of Geneva. Neither fact affects the exclusive rights under section 106. And beyond that, sections 408a and 408c2 let me register a yearly bulk of my postings at any time within the first copyright term -- and *then* initiate a lawsuit. :) So the remedy is there if it's needed, but look, it doesn't change the de facto theft of my creative work, mundane as it may seem. Furthermore, these guys make money from ad clicks on what is basically an automated service exploiting the work of thousands of authors, and that is unacceptable to me. I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: [snip] Intellectual property protection is not merely for the benefit of corporations. It subsists in my postings and in your postings and in everyone else's postings as well as in Finale's software -- or I could happily be posting Finale on my website. The exchange of money doesn't make MakeMusic's copyright somehow more important than yours or mine. The terms of my postings on this list are that it is, as it says on the subscription page, a private list. At no point did I hand over rights or give permission for third-party distribution of my writing, however inconsequential it may be -- not to opensubscriber.com or archivum.info or mail-archive.com, not to the list owner, and not through the list subscription contract itself. Sounds like you need to get your intellectual property lawyer involved. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Christopher Smith wrote: [snip] This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. I, on the other hand, have freely given away a bunch of my writings in the public domain, which is a different kettle of fish. But just because I don't care who re-distributes MY work doesn't mean that I don't support Dennis' point of view. Point made, I think. I agree, Dennis has a very valid point concerning his copyrighted messages but holding forth on this forum does no good. Getting his intellectual property lawyer involved is the only way to resolve this issue. Those external archives aren't going to listen to any of us, unless we back it up with a lawsuit which has monetary and punitive damages attached. All those archives are going to say, in response to our complaints and requests to stop, is Oh, yeah? Sez who? You gonna make me? Let me see you try! Just like the schoolyard bullies who thought our lunch money was their lunch money, it's only when someone with authority to incur penalties gets involved that such actions cease. In this case that would be the courts. We can discuss it until we're blue in the face, and no matter how valid, both legally and morally, Dennis' points, what we feel carries no weight with the archive sites. We can petition Henry to pursue it through SHSU, and can also petition him to find a way for human-only subscription. But even that may be impossible in trying to stop things. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Phil Daley wrote: At 7/12/2005 09:13 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: I agree with Aaron. This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Otherwise he hasn't a leg to stand on, legally. No, since the 1978 revision of the copyright law, copyright subsists in any creation once it is placed in fixed format, with or without the copyright notice being attached. For a work to enter the public domain immediately a notice to that effect has to be attached by the lawful copyright holder. Dennis' potential penalties he can seek are limited if he hasn't registered the copyright for each and every message with the U.S. Copyright Office, but he can still get some damages for each infringement. And then he can also go after the archive sites for unlawfully making money from his property, in a civil suit, over and above their copyright infringement. I wonder if the copyright infringement case might be fodder for an attorney general's office (in Dennis' case I guess the Atty. General of Vermont, although since it's also the SHSU server which is being violated perhaps and/or the Atty. General of Texas.) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. Agreed. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Christopher Smith wrote: On Jul 12, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Phil Daley wrote: At 7/12/2005 09:13 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: I agree with Aaron. This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Otherwise he hasn't a leg to stand on, legally. I don't know about US copyright law, but in Canada copyright is applied automatically, with or without the notice. It's kind of like, this bicycle is mine, even if I DON'T put a sign on it saying so. The copyright notice is just a warning, or a courtesy, depending on your intentions. If he can prove he is the legal author, he has copyright to it, notice or not. I wonder if the courts will rule, though, that by posting to a group where he doesn't know the membership and can't control the membership he is effectively publishing the messages for any and all to see and read and archive, and so the archive sites are within their legal rights to simply be another member of the list. Sort of like the 'law' of unintended consequences -- posting messages to an extremely public list (even though it may be called private by its owners, since anybody in the world is free to subscribe, with no qualifications to be met nor stipulations placed, the courts may view this as a public list) means that the materials are published with the intention that users will use them as such materials are commonly used, printed, read, stored, archived, shared with others not on the list, forwarded to others, and since no such stipulations are placed on the messages people who subscribe to this list can reasonably expect that all the members realize all the uses to which such postings are put and therefore give tacit agreement to such uses. It would be very interesting to see how a court would rule if this ever went to trial! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
All those archives are going to say, in response to our complaints and requests to stop, is Oh, yeah? Sez who? It's quite possible that if the site is hosted by a company who takes legal matters seriously they will close the site down if it they judge it to be against the law - most of the terms of use in web hosting include such a waiver. I've had luck closing down sites that were redistributing my PHP scripts without my authority (all the scripts included a EULA saying that they could not be redistributed etc.) All that was needed was a clear email to the host. The hosts would usually give 24hours notice (sometimes bcc'd to me in email) to remedy the situation and then pull the plug if nothing was done. I'm not saying it's sure to work in this case, but that's certainly why Dennis is talking about going to the host and not the site owner. Is Dennis in software or something? Sounds familiar! Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
dhbailey schrieb: Those external archives aren't going to listen to any of us, unless we back it up with a lawsuit which has monetary and punitive damages attached. Ah, now I am getting interested. How much do you think would be in it for me? Couple of thousand? Millions? I may be pursuaded to be very concerned about my copyrights. Johannes Note: This Email is copyrighted. It may not be redistributed by anyone without written permission of the author. © 2005 by Johannes Gebauer, Berlin, Germany. All rights reserved. -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. I'm with you. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 04:02 PM 7/12/05 +0100, Simon Troup wrote: Is Dennis in software or something? Not anymore, except maybe this: http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/killer.html I've just been a (not-a-lawyer) student of copyright for several decades. And since I am at last trying to live on my pitiful royalties, commissions, and engraving jobs, I get touchy over someone marketing my work as a service (and then collecting the ad click revenue). Anyway, speaking of royalties, I have a piece to finish... Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12/07/05, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (even though it may be called private by its owners, since anybody in the world is free to subscribe, with no qualifications to be met nor stipulations placed, the courts may view this as a public list) I subscribe to a couple of other Mailman lists where, to subscribe, your request for subscription is moderated. The list owner receives the request and sends out a questionnaire; it is only after sufficient answers have been received that he will begin the subscription. Possibly Henry could set up something similar for our list. He could even flush out all of the subscribers and require us all to resubscribe in order to weed out the robots. I would suggest that an appropriate questionnaire would include such questions as What version of Finale did you first use? and What version of Finale are you currently using? Though it is possible that the administrators of the robots may have the capacity to subscribe manually (and thus receive the questionnaire themselves), it is likely that certain questions can be devised that will prove familiarity with Finale in its present and past incarnations. However, this will definitely not do anything about the issue of the content currently available on the servers of these archive sites, and legal action to remove said content may still be required. In any case, creating a more comprehensive filter to membership might prevent this from happening again. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On Jul 12, 2005, at 11:26 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: dhbailey schrieb: Those external archives aren't going to listen to any of us, unless we back it up with a lawsuit which has monetary and punitive damages attached. Ah, now I am getting interested. How much do you think would be in it for me? Couple of thousand? Millions? I may be pursuaded to be very concerned about my copyrights. Johannes Note: This Email is copyrighted. It may not be redistributed by anyone without written permission of the author. © 2005 by Johannes Gebauer, Berlin, Germany. All rights reserved. Heh, heh! You ARE a funny guy, Johannes! 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Phil Daley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Or, even more directly, he could put a header line in each email that says X-No-Archive: true. From what I've seen, all these mail collectors do respect such requests to not archive those messages. On the other hand, it's probably more fun to get lawyers involved. Have at it. -- Stephen L. Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG fingerprint: A1BF 5A81 03E7 47CE 71E0 3BD4 8DA6 9268 5BB6 4BBE And it don't make you an actress just because you've been on COPS. -- Laurence O'Keefe's Sensitive Song ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Christopher Smith schrieb: Heh, heh! You ARE a funny guy, Johannes! 8-) Well, thank you Christopher. After not getting Lawrence's joke this feels really good! But wait, that makes my post more valuable in terms of copyright, does it not? More money for funnier posts, obviously. (Not quite) Seriously, if we all join together in a class action suit, it won't cost us much will it? I am sure some courts are going to give us huge sums for this. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Yes, they do have a relevance to Finale, and I personally think they are vital for the future of Finale. Therefor I object to any attempts to move this discussion elsewhere, or to end it prematurely. If you don't want to read them, just don't read them. I am sure it won't go on for much longer. You do have a delete button on your computer, don't you? Johannes [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On Jul 11, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I'm with Aaron. I really don't care if my email address is available for anyone to see in the Google cache, but I DO care about having searchable archives, and since we de-linked from Google, that's impossible. I also agree with this viewpoint. And I am frankly dismayed at the contempt for the public domain expressed in some of the postings in this thread. Since 1983 the public domain in this country has been whittled almost out of existence, and a nostalgic yearning for a supposed earlier time when copyrights meant something reminds me of nothing so much as the assertion from the far right that Christians have become a persecuted minority in the US. In both cases there is a really serious disconnect from reality. As for asserting copyright in one's postings to an internet forum, that's simply antisocial. You might as well declare copyright on your after-dinner conversation. Fortunately, it's legal hooey, since a private list that publicizes its existence and accepts anyone who signs up is not in fact private by either statute or case law. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
In a message dated 12/07/2005 17:06:31 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. At risk of repeating myself, butchers sometimes talk about fish. All the best, Lawrence þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg http://lawrenceyates.co.uk Dulcian Wind Quintet: http://dulcianwind.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Need invisible chord anchors
Hi Bill, Go to Layer 4 Select Show Active Layer only. In layer 4, put in rests where you want the chords anchored. Input your chords. Mass Edit select all measures. PluginsNote Beam and Rest EditingHide Notes and Rests Go back to Layer one. Uncheck Show Active Layer only You should now see notes in layer one along with your chords. -K When generating a lead sheet, it is often desirable to have chords that sequence under a fixed melody note. For example, you might have an 8 beat whole note where a sequence of chords are changing under it. This is not in keeping with the way finale anchors chords, since it the chord anchor must be on a tied note, note or rest. I have not seen any way to anchor a chord to a note that's not in the staff. One can generate an artificial chord anchor by breaking a long note into tied notes, but that makes it awkward to read the music, and it's not good notation practice. I tried hanging chords onto alternate layers, but that means sticking notes into the score that don't belong, and I have not figured out how to suppress the printing out of the alternate layers. That really confuses things. Has anyone figured out a way around this? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: mac acrobat reader 7 page size display
i used to be able to see the page size displayed at all times in the bottom left corner of the window in previous versions, but can't find anywhere in the prefs to make it appear permanently in version 7 (moving the mouse to the corner makes it appear temporarily), anyone have an idea? jef -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Andrew Stiller wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. You'll get no such agreement from me. If copyright subsists in these postings, then it should not. Have you all gone nuts? Andrew Stiller I second Andrew's comment. Of all the copyright issues to be worried about, this has to rank way down the bottom. What next, objecting to people remembering what you say in the pub?! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. You'll get no such agreement from me. If copyright subsists in these postings, then it should not. Have you all gone nuts? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
I second Andrew's comment. Of all the copyright issues to be worried about, this has to rank way down the bottom. What next, objecting to people remembering what you say in the pub?! It's the distribution of email addresses that I object to. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
In a message dated 12/07/2005 17:51:00 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What next, objecting to people remembering what you say in the pub?! I think I can safely say that I have never remembered anything said to me in a pub nor have I heard of anyone ever remembering anything I said to them. If I had, I should consider it to be rather a poor pub. My own view on this is that since I have never met anyone on this list, have no idea who may join the list tomorrow nor indeed who is on it at the moment, then I have to presume that whatever nonsense I utter is there for all to see. It is, to all intents and purposes a public list since anyone of the general public can join and read everything on it. All the best, Lawrence þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg http://lawrenceyates.co.uk Dulcian Wind Quintet: http://dulcianwind.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
At 12:37 PM 7/12/05 -0400, Andrew Stiller wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. You'll get no such agreement from me. If copyright subsists in these postings, then it should not. Have you all gone nuts? Not at all. Sometimes issues discussed here get into great depth, at significant effort from the authors of the posts. I for one would *not* be happy to find my material harvested into a book or term paper or thesis under someone else's byline. There are other public forums and blogs for material intended for public release. This is not one of them. The point of a private list is precisely that -- we speak to each other with a certain level of understanding and respect and especially mutual trust. On a private list, even a large one, we can also be honest and direct without fearing trolls and hate-mongers and (I hope) thieves. But harvesting/redistribution robots do not contribute to the group, have no judgment, take everything, and place it all (including substantial commentary) in what *appears to be* the public domain -- but is not. For example, in January, we engaged in an important discussion about nonpop, during which I made significant commentary and revelations to colleagues here, eliciting rich responses. I have collected and edited that material, and at some point will request permission from the individual posters to permit inclusion of their comments in a public essay. That's the ethical and legal route. Irrespective of how large this group might be, and irrespective of the legalities involved, it is still identified as a private list. No effort on my part should be required to keep my postings -- and my intellectual property -- distributed exactly as promised, i.e., only to the audience for which they were intended. Look, there are two issues here: Whether we object to our material being read by a wider public, and whether harvesting and redistribution without permission is legal and ethical. The latter is clear, but the former depends on the list member. We have no consensus, so it goes on. But the list owner should at least identify that the list is no longer a private one so future members will know their efforts are being taken and distributed for others' gain. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
I agree that this is silly. When you send an email to this list you are going to sometimes have an email forwarded to an offlist member. You are going to be quoted with attribution in other emails, perhaps to other lists. It's part of the expected actions to be taken with an email, and these are not illegal as far as I'm aware. While the argument exists that since your post is © 2005 you, one must also consider the value of the post. If someone wants to read your post all they need to do is join the list and they can. Therefore, there is no undue harm caused by someone archiving their received emails elsewhere, even if publically accessible. If you wish to have your posts not archived, then the correct protocaol in email is to set the appropriate X-Header. Adding a © notice in your signature is senseless - that is used in print for use by humans, but no human is involved with the actual archiving of your post. Complaining about archiving when the X-Header has not been set is kinda like whining about the draft when you've left the door open. Finally, the whole point of this list is to help others. Does it matter in a real way whether the person is helped through the official archive or another? If there was some proprietary information or secrets or artistic worth or such here, ok. But it's an email list. If someone thinks so highly of the information we freely exchange here that they want to draw attention to it, that's a compliment. Neal Schermerhorn ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 7/12/2005 11:26 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Note: This Email is copyrighted. It may not be redistributed by anyone without written permission of the author. © 2005 by Johannes Gebauer, Berlin, Germany. All rights reserved. You make think this is funny, but that's what I think it would take to actually make a case in court. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: graphics in MS word
does anyone know of a way to find out the file name of a graphic which has been inserted into a word doc? i can find all the info on its placement, adjustments etc. via the contextual menu format picture, but not the file name! since edits to an external graphics file are not reflected in the word document, i wonder if graphic files are not linked, but rather imported into the word doc through insertion? if so, is there a way to link rather than import, so that changes can be made to the source graphic file which will then show in the word doc? jef PS i know the real answer is to NOT use word... but sometimes i have to for score legends etc. -- shirling neueweise \/ new music notation specialists mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On Jul 12, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Simon Troup wrote: It's the distribution of email addresses that I object to. There is no distribution of email addresses on this archive. They are stripped out. Check it out yourself. http://www.opensubscriber.com/messages/finale@shsu.edu/416.html Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: graphics in MS word
shirling neueweise wrote: does anyone know of a way to find out the file name of a graphic which has been inserted into a word doc? i can find all the info on its placement, adjustments etc. via the contextual menu format picture, but not the file name! since edits to an external graphics file are not reflected in the word document, i wonder if graphic files are not linked, but rather imported into the word doc through insertion? if so, is there a way to link rather than import, so that changes can be made to the source graphic file which will then show in the word doc? I *think* Insert-Object-Create from file is what you need ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Swing?
Title: Re: [Finale] Swing? Hey Allen, thanks for the info but the tempo tool seems fragile and it wants to slow the tempo. I, of course can get around that but I think I'll just do as I had planned and was also suggested by another member: save as a seperate playback file, change that section to cut-time and let it swing the 8th's. Thanks, Jim - Original Message - From: Allen Fisher To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Swing? I know its not the greatest solution, but you can use the tempo tool to create the swing.Double-click a measure with the tempo tool.Click Set Swing...Click DurationChoose 16thThatll swing it. Youll have to set tempo to No HP Effect in HP prefs if you are using Human Playback.On 7/12/05 8:07 AM, "Christopher Smith" [EMAIL PROTECTED] said this: On Jul 12, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Jim Williamson wrote: Can someone tell me how to specify swinging of 16th's and not 8th's? I have a slow Hip Hop section (quarter = 76) where the 8th's need to stay straight but the 16th's need to be bouncy. The swing function doesthe opposite. I can accomplish the task by writing it in "cut time" but that's not the way I want it to look. Any input? I assume you're talking about playback only? I think you might be out of luck on this. But I agree that hip-hop 16ths would be a useful option in the playback, and I would certainly make that request to MakeMusic. In the meantime, I would write it as 16ths, print it out, then use Mass EditChangeNote Durations in combination with the Time Sig tool to change the passage to eighths, apply the Human Playback plugin to make them swing, and use that playback. Sorry for the bad news. Christopher ___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale-- Allen ___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
At 7/12/2005 01:22 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: The point of a private list is precisely that -- we speak to each other with a certain level of understanding and respect and especially mutual trust. You are totally wrong. There is no such thing as a private list than anyone in the general public can join. Good luck on your civil suit. I'll testify for the defense. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
At 01:37 PM 7/12/05 -0400, Neal Schermerhorn wrote: I agree that this is silly. When you send an email to this list you are going to sometimes have an email forwarded to an offlist member. You are going to be quoted with attribution in other emails, perhaps to other lists. It's part of the expected actions to be taken with an email, and these are not illegal as far as I'm aware. Proportional incidental quoting is perfectly legal (Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use, Section 107). Acquisition/distribution of complete writings is not. While the argument exists that since your post is © 2005 you, one must also consider the value of the post. If someone wants to read your post all they need to do is join the list and they can. Therefore, there is no undue harm caused by someone archiving their received emails elsewhere, even if publically accessible. While the argument exists that since your [song] [score] [drawing] [website] [program] [photo] [essay] is © 2005 you, one must also consider the value of the [song] [score] [drawing] [website] [program] [photo] [essay]. If someone wants to read [get] your [song] [score] [drawing] [website] [program] [photo] [essay] all they need to do is join the list [go to your website] [use a data aggregator] and they can. Therefore, there is no undue harm caused by someone archiving their received [song] [score] [drawing] [website] [program] [photo] [essay] elsewhere, even if publically accessible. Complaining about archiving when the X-Header has not been set is kinda like whining about the draft when you've left the door open. That is entirely irrelevant. This is a private list. It's identified as a private list. Access is restricted for members to read. I want to read and write to a private list and its archive. What's hard to understand? Furthermore, even if the list were not private, I would still expect only the official list archive to present this information. Even newsgroups, where redistribution is in the nature of the medium, do not weaken the author's IP rights. Remember: *No action on anyone's part* is necessary to reserve rights to their creative work. If there was some proprietary information or secrets or artistic worth or such here, ok. But it's an email list. If someone thinks so highly of the information we freely exchange here that they want to draw attention to it, that's a compliment. Sure, just like when they think so highly of your [song] [score] [drawing] [website] [program] [photo] [essay] that they harvest it for their own profit and distribute it over P2P networks. I'm not suggesting anything abnormal or 'nuts' here. I was not notified that my work was going to be taken and redistributed by a third party, nor were you. At what point does this taking become unacceptable? Neal, you've made some great postings over the years in several lists. Would you be so cavalier if I took all your material, reworked it, and issued it as a book or ad-revenue website? With full credit, of course, but no money for or control by you? Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: graphics in MS word
At 7/12/2005 01:56 PM, shirling neueweise wrote: does anyone know of a way to find out the file name of a graphic which has been inserted into a word doc? No. They have been imported, ie. delinked from the object source. They have no knowledge of whence they came from. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
I agree that this is silly. When you send an email to this list you are going to sometimes have an email forwarded to an offlist member. You are going to be quoted with attribution in other emails, perhaps to other lists. It's part of the expected actions to be taken with an email, and these are not illegal as far as I'm aware. ... apart from the fact that when you join it says ... This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members. ... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email address readily available on another site. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 7/12/2005 12:04 PM, Stephen Peters wrote: Phil Daley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Or, even more directly, he could put a header line in each email that says X-No-Archive: true. From what I've seen, all these mail collectors do respect such requests to not archive those messages. A good idea. But, I think it's interesting that someone even wants to collect _my_ 2 cents ;-) I just did a Google search on my name. Last year there were about 30, 000 entries, about half to an Australian rugby player. Now there are only 1000, again half to the rugby guy. It seems like Google has cut back on the archives it searches. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12-Jul-05, at 11:00 AM, Owain Sutton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Stiller wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. You'll get no such agreement from me. If copyright subsists in these postings, then it should not. Have you all gone nuts? Andrew Stiller I second Andrew's comment. Of all the copyright issues to be worried about, this has to rank way down the bottom. What next, objecting to people remembering what you say in the pub?! I also agree with Andrew. Aa searchable archive is a great resource, and can cut down on repetitive posts. _ with best wishes, John http://abram.ca/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. Yes, I acknowledge that it is your creative work. I see the discussions here as on the same order as if we were meeting in a publick house for discussion. Yes, your comments are your creative effort, but it is also accurate to report what you wrote. I think the greater interests of the community are such that I vote nay to your request to remove your posts. Further, as a practical matter, how do you deal with the issue of other subscribers not being particularly careful to trim out your posts? Even if your posts are removed, it may not be possible to remove those parts of your posts--in some cases, the entire thing, perhaps--included in the posts of others. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Simon Troup schrieb: ... apart from the fact that when you join it says ... This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members. ... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email address readily available on another site. Which they aren't, no matter how many times you repeat this. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
Johannes Gebauer wrote: dhbailey schrieb: Those external archives aren't going to listen to any of us, unless we back it up with a lawsuit which has monetary and punitive damages attached. Ah, now I am getting interested. How much do you think would be in it for me? Couple of thousand? Millions? I may be pursuaded to be very concerned about my copyrights. Johannes Note: This Email is copyrighted. It may not be redistributed by anyone without written permission of the author. © 2005 by Johannes Gebauer, Berlin, Germany. All rights reserved. Did you give express written permission for SHSU to redistribute your message? how about all those servers it passed through from your computer to SHSU and then back out to all of us who receive the list? Then how about permission for us to quote the message -- I don't see any written permission for me to do that. Please don't sue me -- my 2 pfennigs are in the mail, honest! :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Which they aren't, no matter how many times you repeat this. Actually, I take this back. I just checked, and it is easy to find out any email address, although they are displayed only as a graphic. Now that does worry me a little, especially as the amount of SPAM on my mailing list address has increased quite q bit recently. From this point of view I do actually now support a petition to stop OpenSubscribers from redistributing my emails, unless they stop making my email address available. This is what they have to say: E-mail Address Obfuscation Spam is a major annoyance these days. Legislation is the only thing that will bring spam to an end. Some people don't feel like holding their breaths until that happens, and want spam to stop right now. One popular, but anti-social way of getting less spam is to never give out the real email address. That doesn't work very well with mailing lists. They really need to know what your address is. openSubscriber is a mail-to-web gateway, which means that these addresses could potentially be exposed. Thankfully we're commited to not supporting spam in any shape or fashion... The email address of 'Johannes Gebauer' has been converted to an image to prevent SPAM bots aquiring it... and it then gives my email address as a graphic. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 11 Jul 2005 at 23:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/11/2005 6:17:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't there something illegal or unethical about this? Wait a second. Let's differentiate between illegal and unethical on the one hand, . . . I differentiated legal from ethical, by using the conjunction OR. . . . and the realities of cyberspace on the other. In the latter case, there might as well be no rules, because there's no way to enforce them. It's the American Wild West of the 1850s. What are you smoking? The rules of real life still apply. The Internet has not repealed copyright laws. Think about it for a moment: how many people on this list would feel comfortable publishing one of their compositions in its entirety on the internet, even with a big copyright notice in bold at the bottom? Raise your hands. That's what I thought. I already have done so. Nobody cares. And your analogy doesn't work. What you really need as an analogy is: What if somebody else posted your musical composition in its entirety on the Internet with NO COPYRIGHT NOTICE? That's what's going on here, not what you've described. I'm as unhappy (angry, frustrated, add your own adjective here) as anybody else about this state of affairs. I grew up in a world where copyright protection meant something. On the internet you'd be crazy to think it still does--everything is fair game. So you might as well not be in denial about it. Just because it's happening does not mean it's right or that there's nothing that can be done about it. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12 Jul 2005, at 12:47 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: Andrew Stiller wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. You'll get no such agreement from me. If copyright subsists in these postings, then it should not. Have you all gone nuts? Andrew Stiller I second Andrew's comment. Of all the copyright issues to be worried about, this has to rank way down the bottom. What next, objecting to people remembering what you say in the pub?! Thirded. This is like objecting to internet search engines. Searchable online list archives benefit everyone. If you're *that* concerned about copyright, then don't post here. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Simon Troup schrieb: ... apart from the fact that when you join it says ... This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members. ... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email address readily available on another site. Which they aren't, no matter how many times you repeat this. Johannes Oh hello, what's this then? http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/email/1476456.html Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 11 Jul 2005 at 23:59, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 11 Jul 2005, at 10:20 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 09:15 PM 7/11/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: http://www.opensubscriber.com/messages/finale@shsu.edu/416.html Isn't there something illegal or unethical about this? There's some other message archive subscribed as well. Frankly, as long as SHSU isn't providing a proper searchable archive of their own, I see this as a good thing. I'm with Aaron. I really don't care if my email address is available for anyone to see in the Google cache, but I DO care about having searchable archives, and since we de-linked from Google, that's impossible. Here is a solution which fixes the problem we had with Google (the emails are erased) and provides an enormously useful service that we would not otherwise get -- searchable archives. Doesn't anyone else want searchable archives? The archives of this mailing list get stale very quickly, much moreso than about any technical forum I've ever seen (perhaps because of the frequent upgrade cycle?). I've never once wanted to search them. I don't get the privacy concerns. How is this worse than the Google archives? The only problem anyone had with Google indexing the list is that the email addresses were not erased. So what's the big deal about a searchable index that *does* erase email addresses? The reason is that *that* archive was maintained by the owner of the list. It's a *huge* difference. My concerns have *zilch* to do with the email address issue -- it's all about permission, copyright and context. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale SongWriter??
http://www.makemusic.com/press_releases.aspx?pid=53 Does MakeMusic! really need *another* intermediate-level notation product? -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius - Dynamic Parts
On 12 Jul 2005 at 0:08, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 11 Jul 2005, at 8:07 PM, Ken Durling wrote: I'm confused by this - isn't AIFF the mac equivalent of a .WAV file? MIDI files contain no timbral information, so wouldn't there have to be an intermediate sound card or sampler for the MIDI file to drive to produce an AIFF? QuickTime contains a General MIDI soundfont -- QuickTime Musical Instruments. It's what Mac users without an external MIDI device used for Finale playback before the introduction of Finale's own soundfont. iTunes on Windows uses your hardware soundcard for outputting MIDI files to wave formats. Unfortunately, on my system, it chooses the dreadful Microsoft soft synthesizer instead of my far superior Turtle Beach soundcard's hardware synthesizer. The results are unusable, but it's doing it without using Quicktime instruments, because I have never installed them (well, I installed them once; they were so bad, I thereafter never installed them on any further PCs of mine). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Simon Troup wrote: Simon Troup schrieb: ... apart from the fact that when you join it says ... This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members. ... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email address readily available on another site. Which they aren't, no matter how many times you repeat this. Johannes Oh hello, what's this then? http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/email/1476456.html Brilliant! You convert your address to an image to prevent it being harvested, then complain when it's the one address that doesn't get stripped out!!! Would you like to have your spam and eat it, sir? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
David W. Fenton wrote: On 11 Jul 2005 at 22:56, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 10:20 PM 7/11/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: There's some other message archive subscribed as well. Frankly, as long as SHSU isn't providing a proper searchable archive of their own, I see this as a good thing. Not I. I subscribed to a private list. If this were a Yahoo group, that would be a different story. I was Googling on my own name, because of having read this (all on one line): http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_07/006691.ph p And that's how I discovered this. The point is that posts that I've made for one audience (you subscribers to this list) are being made available to everyone in the world, potentially out of context, since they are accessible through Google. Now, I also noticed a large number of Usenet archiving services, but I never expected my Usenet posts to be anything other than public. I am quite annoyed at the number of sites that are using content they are basically stealing to populate their websites, without making it at all clear that the content doesn't really originate with them (the database websites that are running comp.databases.ms-access as a local group are the ones that annoy me). But there's nothing much can be done about that. I've filed a request to remove my posts. Now that your sharp eyes have allowed it, I've resent my request to remove my posts, and the Finale list, as well. How have you worded the request for the entire list to be removed? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Simon Troup wrote: Simon Troup schrieb: ... apart from the fact that when you join it says ... This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members. ... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email address readily available on another site. Which they aren't, no matter how many times you repeat this. Johannes Oh hello, what's this then? http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/email/1476456.html Apologies for my earlier message, I misunderstood what this was showing Still, I maintain that if you don't want your email address to be widely-publicised, using a mailing list to which anyone can subscribe is a silly thing to do ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 7:42, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 07:28 AM 7/12/2005, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: This is not about my email address. This is about my content. I did not expect a public archive, or else I'd be posting to the web forum. The extent of the 'contract' for posting is on the list info site, and nowhere is a public presentation of our postings suggested. Again, I really think this is splitting hairs. Since absolutely anyone in the world can subscribe and then read the entire list archives, our postings are already public, for all intents and purposes. They are public *within the context of the ongoing discussions on the list*. Since they are now in this archive, they are in Google *absent context*. But the real issue is that someone is republishing content on which I hold the copyright, all of my posts. Some of these sites are selling ads, and making a profit. I'm not arguing in favor of these archive sites (though I do like the search capabilities), I'm just saying that it doesn't matter to me because it doesn't expose anything that wasn't already exposed. If you disagree with this assessment, I'd be interested in hearing why. It's unethical, and possible constitutes copyright infringement (very likely, I'd say). It's definitely not within the terms of use of the list as I understand them (explicit or implicit). It's certainly at odds with the policy that the list's own archives are open only to list subscribers. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12/07/05, Simon Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members. ... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email address readily available on another site. Which they aren't, no matter how many times you repeat this. Oh hello, what's this then? http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/email/1476456.html It's an *image file*, which is not able to be harvested by web spiders. It's there for actual humans who click over to that page, but it is in NO WAY readily available. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale SongWriter??
http://www.makemusic.com/press_releases.aspx?pid=53 Does MakeMusic! really need *another* intermediate-level notation product? I think these variations of feature releases are pretty easy for MM to implement, and enable them to easily strip features and drop the price while focussing on target markets. I used to do something similar in scripts where every feature had an array that dictated whether a feature was available when (in my case) encrypting the code (more likely compiling in this case). I could set a variable as a switch and then create targetted versionsall from the same source code. I very much doubt this is an appreciable hit on the developers. I'm presuming this is your concern? Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 9:13, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jul 12, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 07:42 AM 7/12/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: I'm just saying that it doesn't matter to me because it doesn't expose anything that wasn't already exposed. If you disagree with this assessment, I'd be interested in hearing why. Because I reserve the right to my creative work. That's the very basis for copyright protection, and the most elemental understanding of the ownership of my creative work. That I make something available at no charge does not mean that anyone else may then redistribute it. This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. Regardless of what type of copyright any individual wants to assert, either full control or releasing into the public domain, the *creator* of the content has an absolute right by law to determine what copyright restrictions they release their work under. I, on the other hand, have freely given away a bunch of my writings in the public domain, which is a different kettle of fish. But just because I don't care who re-distributes MY work doesn't mean that I don't support Dennis' point of view. But if you haven't explicitly identified the content you're releasing into the public domain, then it's *not* in the public domain. The default for content with no copyright notice is the assumption of the most restrictive copyright rules, which is that the creator reserves all rights. These archives are completely ignoring that fact, even if they are archiving posts of people who are fine with it. Point made, I think. I'm surprised it too such vehement advocacy for people to realize that -- Dennis's points are self-evident to me, which is why I brought this to the list's attention. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 8:39, Owain Sutton wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 10:20 PM 7/11/05 -0400, Aaron Sherber wrote: There's some other message archive subscribed as well. Frankly, as long as SHSU isn't providing a proper searchable archive of their own, I see this as a good thing. Not I. I subscribed to a private list. I didn't. Not in the way you mean it: This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members - http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Nothing about the contents of messages not being available to non-members. What meaning is there to the policy the list of members is not available to non-members if the posts (with many email addresses of senders readable by a human being) are available to anyone who can Google? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
At 03:04 PM 7/12/2005, Simon Troup wrote: Oh hello, what's this then? http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/email/1476456.html It's exactly what it says: it's an image of your email address, which is not harvestable by bots in that form. This is not what most of us would call readily available. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 11 Jul 2005 at 20:16, Ken Durling wrote: There are literally thousands of groups on this list. I see a few others, like photography groups, that I belong to. I don't know. I think RSS is probably something like a Google for discussion groups... This is not about RSS, which has nothing specifically to do with discussion groups (it was originally designed for blogs, so that you could subscribe to an RSS feed and then check your RSS feeds to see when new content had been added to the blogs whose RSS feeds you subscribe to; there is also a competing standard, called Atom, but most programs that handle RSS now handle Atom as well). This is about archiving a mailing list without permission of the subscribers or the list owner. RSS is only a mechanism for notifying users of the archiving website when it has added posts. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Johannes Gebauer wrote: Darcy James Argue schrieb: Thirded. This is like objecting to internet search engines. Searchable online list archives benefit everyone. If you're *that* concerned about copyright, then don't post here. I have no problem with my messages appearing there. However, I am _very_ concerned about their email address policy, especially as it is completely unnecessary. I do not want to see my email address on any publically accessable server, unless I have given permission to do so. Then STOP USING THIS LIST. You have no idea where the emails are going, or what is being done with them. Just because theft is illegal doesn't mean I leave my wallet lying around. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale SongWriter??
Simon Troup wrote: http://www.makemusic.com/press_releases.aspx?pid=53 Does MakeMusic! really need *another* intermediate-level notation product? I think these variations of feature releases are pretty easy for MM to implement, and enable them to easily strip features and drop the price while focussing on target markets. Again I wonder how they possibly are identifying these 'target markets', when Sibelius site licences are selling like hotcakes. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
At 02:56 PM 7/12/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: And that's how I discovered this. The point is that posts that I've made for one audience (you subscribers to this list) are being made available to everyone in the world, But David, they've *always* been available to everyone in the world. Anyone in the world can join and then download the complete list archives themselves in about 5 minutes. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 10:44, dhbailey wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: [snip] This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. I, on the other hand, have freely given away a bunch of my writings in the public domain, which is a different kettle of fish. But just because I don't care who re-distributes MY work doesn't mean that I don't support Dennis' point of view. Point made, I think. I agree, Dennis has a very valid point concerning his copyrighted messages but holding forth on this forum does no good. Getting his intellectual property lawyer involved is the only way to resolve this issue. Those external archives aren't going to listen to any of us, unless we back it up with a lawsuit which has monetary and punitive damages attached. All those archives are going to say, in response to our complaints and requests to stop, is Oh, yeah? Sez who? You gonna make me? Let me see you try! Just like the schoolyard bullies who thought our lunch money was their lunch money, it's only when someone with authority to incur penalties gets involved that such actions cease. In this case that would be the courts. Actually, all the listowner has to do is ban subscriptions under the domain of these archiving sites. Problem solved. We can discuss it until we're blue in the face, and no matter how valid, both legally and morally, Dennis' points, what we feel carries no weight with the archive sites. We can petition Henry to pursue it through SHSU, and can also petition him to find a way for human-only subscription. But even that may be impossible in trying to stop things. These sites only work because they can subscribe to the list. If their domains are blocked, the problem is gone, no lawyer required. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 10:38, dhbailey wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: [snip] Intellectual property protection is not merely for the benefit of corporations. It subsists in my postings and in your postings and in everyone else's postings as well as in Finale's software -- or I could happily be posting Finale on my website. The exchange of money doesn't make MakeMusic's copyright somehow more important than yours or mine. The terms of my postings on this list are that it is, as it says on the subscription page, a private list. At no point did I hand over rights or give permission for third-party distribution of my writing, however inconsequential it may be -- not to opensubscriber.com or archivum.info or mail-archive.com, not to the list owner, and not through the list subscription contract itself. Sounds like you need to get your intellectual property lawyer involved. That's exactly why these people think they can get away with this -- it takes a lawsuit to force them to act. That's wrong. And ethical actors who are concerned about acting legally shouldn't be doing what's right only when under threat of lawsuit. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Apologies for my earlier message, I misunderstood what this was showing No problem. Still, I maintain that if you don't want your email address to be widely-publicised, using a mailing list to which anyone can subscribe is a silly thing to do Why does it have to be that way? Can't I join a professional list? (If I can call it that, I do this for a living!). I think we should operate as we do and then combat ourselves when people overstep the mark. I'm not silly, I'm just trying to maintain some limits. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 10:53, dhbailey wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: On Jul 12, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Phil Daley wrote: At 7/12/2005 09:13 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: I agree with Aaron. This is a very good point. Dennis has already made generally available for free a whole cartload of his work (musical and verbal) while retaining his copyright, on his various websites. No doubt he considers his writings here to be similar. Then he needs to mark every message with a Copyright statement. Otherwise he hasn't a leg to stand on, legally. I don't know about US copyright law, but in Canada copyright is applied automatically, with or without the notice. It's kind of like, this bicycle is mine, even if I DON'T put a sign on it saying so. The copyright notice is just a warning, or a courtesy, depending on your intentions. If he can prove he is the legal author, he has copyright to it, notice or not. I wonder if the courts will rule, though, that by posting to a group where he doesn't know the membership and can't control the membership he is effectively publishing the messages for any and all to see and read and archive, and so the archive sites are within their legal rights to simply be another member of the list. I think only a very stupid court that doesn't understand the issues would rule that way. Sort of like the 'law' of unintended consequences -- posting messages to an extremely public list (even though it may be called private by its owners, since anybody in the world is free to subscribe, with no qualifications to be met nor stipulations placed, the courts may view this as a public list) . . . Consider the difference between posting to any unmoderated Usenet group and posting to the Finale list. It's a *huge* difference. . . . means that the materials are published with the intention that users will use them as such materials are commonly used, printed, read, stored, archived, shared with others not on the list, forwarded to others, and since no such stipulations are placed on the messages people who subscribe to this list can reasonably expect that all the members realize all the uses to which such postings are put and therefore give tacit agreement to such uses. It would be very interesting to see how a court would rule if this ever went to trial! I think the ethical and legal issues are pretty clear to someone who understands how mailing lists work. There are a number of implicit aspects to the subscription contract that have been pretty well understood for a very long time. I note that there don't seem to be any explicit Finale list terms of service accessible from http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale. It was so long ago that I subscribed that I don't believe I have the terms of service you get when you subscribe. I think it would be helpful to have those accessible from the listinfo page (based on my past experiencing administering a mailman mailing list, I know that part of the content of that page is configurable by the list administrator). As to what courts would or would not rule, that's a different kettle of fish. It shouldn't need to get that far. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 11:55, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jul 12, 2005, at 11:26 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: dhbailey schrieb: Those external archives aren't going to listen to any of us, unless we back it up with a lawsuit which has monetary and punitive damages attached. Ah, now I am getting interested. How much do you think would be in it for me? Couple of thousand? Millions? I may be pursuaded to be very concerned about my copyrights. Johannes Note: This Email is copyrighted. It may not be redistributed by anyone without written permission of the author. © 2005 by Johannes Gebauer, Berlin, Germany. All rights reserved. Heh, heh! You ARE a funny guy, Johannes! 8-) As you see, I've added something similar. My only concern is that my notice (or Johannes's) could be interpreted to prevent you from quoting my posts. I think it's implicit in the subscription contract, and in the fact of posting to a list, that you allow others to quote your posts in the context of that list. The point is, by explicitly saying all rights reserved Johannes has notified you that he has the right to control how his words are used, and if you use them after he's specifically told you not to, then you have no legal or ethical leg to stand on. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Simon Troup wrote: Actually, I take this back. I just checked, and it is easy to find out any email address, although they are displayed only as a graphic. Thanks Johannes, I thought you must have missed that. I'm not sure where we're up to with SpmBot OCR but that particular graphic is hardly the industry standard as far as CAPTCHA goes. Check this one ... True - but I know I'm not the only person who's had trouble deciphering Yahoo's ones. As with any measure, they'll last for so long before becoming useless. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 12:17, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Jul 11, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: I'm with Aaron. I really don't care if my email address is available for anyone to see in the Google cache, but I DO care about having searchable archives, and since we de-linked from Google, that's impossible. I also agree with this viewpoint. And I am frankly dismayed at the contempt for the public domain expressed in some of the postings in this thread. . . . The concept of public domain as regards to copyright should not be confused with publicly available information. . . . Since 1983 the public domain in this country has been whittled almost out of existence, and a nostalgic yearning for a supposed earlier time when copyrights meant something reminds me of nothing so much as the assertion from the far right that Christians have become a persecuted minority in the US. In both cases there is a really serious disconnect from reality. Posts to mailing lists have *never* been in the public domain, Andrew, at least not in the sense that public domain is used as a legal construct in copyright law. As for asserting copyright in one's postings to an internet forum, that's simply antisocial. You might as well declare copyright on your after-dinner conversation. Fortunately, it's legal hooey, since a private list that publicizes its existence and accepts anyone who signs up is not in fact private by either statute or case law. On the fact of it, that argument seems completely wrong to me. The list is *not* publicly available to anyone. You have to identify yourself to the list owner (even if it's done in an automated fashion), and that list owner has the ability to deny you access to the information. Secondly, the archives of the list that are maintained by the owner of the list are not open to the public. That is a pretty clear indication of a certain intent to restrict some of the information from full public disclosure. A mailing list, to which you must subscribe, is very different from a public posting forum like an unmoderated Usenet group, which is publicly available to anyone with access to a Usenet server carrying the the newsgroup. The point here is that someone is using content posted for the use of subscribers to the mailing list for purposes that are not explicitly authorized by the subscribers when they sign up. Adding insult to injury, these sites are profiting from that re-use. They are using my posts without my permission. They are profiting from that re-use. From a copyright point of view, on principle, it's a pretty open-and- shut case. Legally, it's not as easy, since enforcing copyright usually requires the realistic threat of a lawsuit. But on principle, it's a pretty clear case. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On Jul 12, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Simon Troup wrote: I agree that this is silly. When you send an email to this list you are going to sometimes have an email forwarded to an offlist member. You are going to be quoted with attribution in other emails, perhaps to other lists. It's part of the expected actions to be taken with an email, and these are not illegal as far as I'm aware. ... apart from the fact that when you join it says ... This is a private list, which means that the list of members is not available to non-members. ... which I would have thought covered _not_ having my email address readily available on another site. And that is indeed the case. Emails ARE stripped out. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Am I the only one who might actually try using Opensubcriber to search the archives? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12 Jul 2005 at 12:37, Andrew Stiller wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. You'll get no such agreement from me. If copyright subsists in these postings, then it should not. Have you all gone nuts? Consider the issues raised here (all on one line): http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_07/006691.ph p Consider that, under your rules, all discussion here is available *outside its original context* to anyone with access to Google (as long as Opensubscriber.com archives the group). Google Andrew Stiller. Is it really your intent that your postings on this list should show up as entries 13-14 in Google's search results? For me, it's items 3-4, and that's a bad thing, from my point of view. The copyright issue is really open and shut -- Opensubscriber.com is violating copyright here. And making money in the process (selling ads). If that doesn't concern you, then the context issue should. Posts you make in the flow of a discussion can pop in Google absent that context and could then be easily misinterpreted. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12 Jul 2005, at 4:05 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: Am I the only one who might actually try using Opensubcriber to search the archives? No. It's *insanely frustrating* that since de-linking from Google, there has been no way to search the archives. I have already started using OpenSubscriber, and sincerely hope that Henry will *not* de-link us from OpenSubscriber as well, because then I doubt we will EVER get searchable archives. The problem with OpenSubscriber is that the current archive isn't very deep -- the archiving began fairly recently -- and it's not as flexible with search terms as Google was. But it's better than nothing. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 13:46, Phil Daley wrote: At 7/12/2005 11:26 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Note: This Email is copyrighted. It may not be redistributed by anyone without written permission of the author. © 2005 by Johannes Gebauer, Berlin, Germany. All rights reserved. You make think this is funny, but that's what I think it would take to actually make a case in court. No, it wouldn't -- the copyright violation would be the same. On the other hand, republishing content with this explicit disclaimer (which simply restates the implicit rights that every author has until they explicitly give them up) would probably incur larger penalties were the case ever brought into court. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
It's an *image file*, which is not able to be harvested by web spiders. It's there for actual humans who click over to that page, but it is in NO WAY readily available. I know what you mean but I think you're overestimating the security of that image. OCR exists, and spammers are conttinually improving it otherwise why the attempts at BaffleText and the like (this is clearly not up to that standard). The voice of reason in me simply says that we should do what we can to protect our privacy. I'm not pretending we can do this 100%, just that like everything else in life we should try. If people want searchable archives and RSS then let's find a solution that doesn't include this guy (opensubscriber.com) who clearly just wants his GoogleAds revenue at the expense of my privacy. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: graphics in MS word
On 12 Jul 2005 at 13:56, shirling neueweise wrote: does anyone know of a way to find out the file name of a graphic which has been inserted into a word doc? i can find all the info on its placement, adjustments etc. via the contextual menu format picture, but not the file name! since edits to an external graphics file are not reflected in the word document, i wonder if graphic files are not linked, but rather imported into the word doc through insertion? if so, is there a way to link rather than import, so that changes can be made to the source graphic file which will then show in the word doc? If you PASTE, you get a copy. If you PASTE SPECIAL, you get a dialog box that allows you to control whether or not you copy or link to the original file. If you use INSERT OBJECT, and choose CREATE FROM FILE, the LINK option is right there in the dialog box. If you INSERT PICTURE, there's a check box in the dialog for LINK TO FILE. So, I'm not sure why you can't find how to control linking or not. It seems to be an option in every UI that is relevant. Of course, I'm specifically looking at Winword 97, but I know that newer versions of Word are very little changed, and these are options that are unlikely to have been removed, since they are essential components of the entire process. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12 Jul 2005 at 14:04, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jul 12, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Simon Troup wrote: It's the distribution of email addresses that I object to. There is no distribution of email addresses on this archive. They are stripped out. Check it out yourself. http://www.opensubscriber.com/messages/finale@shsu.edu/416.html But if you click on them, you get to a graphical representation of the email address which a human being can read. Go to: http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/finale@shsu.edu/1719087.html and then click on the SENDER name. This takes you to: http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/email/1719087.html where you see a graphic with your email address. Yes, this (mostly) insures that bots can't harvest the address (though some of them are savvy enough to be able to OCR a graphic and convert it to text; that's why many online sources require you to read through noise, such as: http://www.geektools.com/whois.php The text in the graphic is readable by a human being, but the noise added to the graphic makes it pretty hard (if not impossible) for a bot to OCR it. The point here is that the addresses are still available, and quite a few garden-variety bots would have no problem OCR'ing those graphics. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] midi chanels assignment
I am pretty bad in understanding how midi works, having been always interested in music typesetting, but I have a problem here and I don't know what to do. The composer wants me to export de music so that every instruments will appear in midi in the same order as the score (39 different instruments) so that he can assign himself the proper instruments. I've tried to assign a different chanel to every instrument (39 chanels) and when I open the midi file in Finale, to order in fucked up, and so are the chanel number assignements. I don't care about what instrument goes with what chanel, but want one chanel per instruement in the same order as the score. Thanks for your help, Éric Dussault ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
No, Michael, you are not alone. Ken Fowler At 04:59 PM 7/12/2005 +0100, you wrote: I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Beams over rests
I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure without setting it that way for the entire file. Does anyone have a simple/clever workaround for this? (And wouldn't it be nice if this option could be turned on and off for selected measures within a piece?) Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12 Jul 2005, at 4:18 PM, Simon Troup wrote: If people want searchable archives and RSS then let's find a solution that doesn't include this guy (opensubscriber.com) who clearly just wants his GoogleAds revenue at the expense of my privacy. I'm not opposed to that, but if past experience is any judge, it won't happen. I objected strenuously to de-linking from Google because of the email issue. It solved one problem I really don't care about (the availability of my email address) by creating a much bigger problem I care very much about -- removing the ability to search the archives. Sure, an in-house, members-only searchable archive would be ideal, but it seems there is absolutely no interest from anyone about actually making that happen. For now, OpenSubscriber is the best we're going to get, and if we de-link, we'll be back to zero, with no searchable archives and virtually no prospect of ever getting them. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] turn quarters into 16ths
At 10:52 PM +0200 7/11/05, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Is there a way to turn every quarter note in a passage into 4 16th notes? (If not, this seems like something that is missing from the plugin menu - or the TGTools menu). Two slashes through the stems? John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 13:27, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. Yes, I acknowledge that it is your creative work. I see the discussions here as on the same order as if we were meeting in a publick house for discussion. . . . What if someone recorded your discussions in the pub and then broadcast them on a public television station? Would you be OK with that, since your words were spoken in a public place? I don't know about the UK (I believe you're in the UK?), but in the US, you can't record someone without their permission. And you certainly can't broadcast a recording without permission to broadcast even when you have permission to record the conversation. It seems like sound law to me, as the presumption is on the side of the individual's rights to privacy. . . . Yes, your comments are your creative effort, but it is also accurate to report what you wrote. I don't know what this means. If you're quoting as a matter of reporting what happened, that's one thing, and, perhaps, OK. If you're republishing everything in a completely unchanged form, that's vastly different. I think the greater interests of the community are such that I vote nay to your request to remove your posts. Further, as a practical matter, how do you deal with the issue of other subscribers not being particularly careful to trim out your posts? Even if your posts are removed, it may not be possible to remove those parts of your posts--in some cases, the entire thing, perhaps--included in the posts of others. It seems to me that, as with the US laws on sound recordings, one ought to err on the side of caution. There is no automatic right to republish content distributed in a completely different forum. That it is easy to do makes it neither right nor pointless to fight. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
On 12 Jul 2005 at 15:03, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 12 Jul 2005, at 12:47 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: Andrew Stiller wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz: I'm looking for consensus from the group before I send a formal takedown notice to their web hosts. You'll get no such agreement from me. If copyright subsists in these postings, then it should not. Have you all gone nuts? Andrew Stiller I second Andrew's comment. Of all the copyright issues to be worried about, this has to rank way down the bottom. What next, objecting to people remembering what you say in the pub?! Thirded. This is like objecting to internet search engines. Searchable online list archives benefit everyone. No, it's not like that at all -- it's extremely different. Google archives publicly available content. This archiving of posts to this list would be like somebody archiving content on my website that: 1. has no links from any other website and is not linked from anywhere on my own website 2. has not been sent to Google explicitly requesting that it be archived. The definition of public is that it can be reached without someone else's permission. The content of this list was previously accessible only to person's who had the permission of the listowner (and his software agent, the listserv software). Now it's available to anyone. If you're *that* concerned about copyright, then don't post here. That's the best argument I've seen for taking down the Opensubscriber.com archive -- you've basically boiled it down to a choice between retaining control of your words and participating in discussions in this forum. That's a pretty sad choice. And it's especially sad considering that the republication is being done by someone who has no association whatsoever with this forum and its interests. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [Tan] Take it down!
Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 12 Jul 2005, at 4:05 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: Am I the only one who might actually try using Opensubcriber to search the archives? No. It's *insanely frustrating* that since de-linking from Google, there has been no way to search the archives. Agreed wholeheartedly. -- Stephen L. Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG fingerprint: A1BF 5A81 03E7 47CE 71E0 3BD4 8DA6 9268 5BB6 4BBE And since folks here to an absurd degree, seem fixated on your verdigris, would it be all right by you, if I de-greenify you? -- Wicked ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
No, you certainly are not! I r'cd 102 Finale(?)messages this a.m.- far too many were Sibelius related. They must be rubbing their hands in glee! Now we have the same thing regarding does anyone know about this. I do not know figures, but I suspect that the majority of list subscribers are not website publishers, but just guys (and gals) like me who use Finale as a neater/quicker/more interesting way of producing sheet music for their own 'local' group or school or church choir or band/orchestra. Maybe I'm wrong- it has been known- just ask my wife!! Cheers, K in OZ Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0439-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2005 2:00 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list? I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.12/46 - Release Date: 11/07/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.12/46 - Release Date: 11/07/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Does anyone know about this?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 14:43, dhbailey wrote: Johannes Gebauer wrote: dhbailey schrieb: Those external archives aren't going to listen to any of us, unless we back it up with a lawsuit which has monetary and punitive damages attached. Ah, now I am getting interested. How much do you think would be in it for me? Couple of thousand? Millions? I may be pursuaded to be very concerned about my copyrights. Johannes Note: This Email is copyrighted. It may not be redistributed by anyone without written permission of the author. © 2005 by Johannes Gebauer, Berlin, Germany. All rights reserved. Did you give express written permission for SHSU to redistribute your message? how about all those servers it passed through from your computer to SHSU and then back out to all of us who receive the list? By sending it to the listserv address he's given permission for redistribution to the list's subscribers, since that's the only purpose for sending the message to that address. Then how about permission for us to quote the message -- I don't see any written permission for me to do that. Please don't sue me -- my 2 pfennigs are in the mail, honest! :-) He's saying he's reserving his rights. If you're in doubt whether you can quote him, ask him first. I think it's pretty much an implicit right to quote, as long as you maintain the attributions, since that's part of the flow and the culture of mailing lists. And you could almost certainly claim the fair use (fair dealing in Canada and the UK) exception even if Johannes decided to be an ass and deny you the right to quote his posts. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
