Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
--- Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good explanation Tyler ... now, how do you feel about the GPO sounds? Are they as good as the samples provided on the MM site, or not? And if not, what gives? Also, I've just received the following message: Dear Finale Macintosh Customer; In a previous e-mail we informed you of an upgrade installation problem with Finale 2006. In that e-mail we described how to remove a folder from your Macintosh before running the installer. Since then we have created a small program that will automatically find and delete the folder for you. Again, this MUST be run BEFORE you run the Finale 2006 installer. In order for this pre-installer to work properly you must quit all running applications prior to installation. If you haven't already deleted this folder, you can download this program, the Pre-installer for Finale 2006, and run it from your desktop. It will only take a few seconds. Select the link below to download. I downloaded this and activated it, as I have not yet installed my 2006, though it is sitting by my side as I write. I got a message that my system didn't need the pre-installer's benefit. Should I trust this and go ahead with installation ... even if so many are disappointed with GPO sounds? Dean I'm pleased with the GPO sounds. They absolutely require some use of the special Ambience reverb plug-in that's included, and it's possible that some people here haven't had a chance to really experiment with that and find settings that work well. The right reverb settings improve the sound 500%. (disclaimer - I know that there are people on this list who are against the idea of using reverb, but GPO sounds were designed with the idea that reverb would be used) The demos on MakeMusic's webpage are definitely better than average, but they're not unrealistic. I have at least one that I pulled from the Showcase, played from Finale and found I thought sounded better than the demos. There's a lot of variation - some sound great with GPO and others are less of an improvement. You could check to see if the folder that the first e-mail told you to remove is gone. If it's gone, then it should be safe to install. If you're concerned, you could first create a copy of the folder that was getting wiped out. Tyler Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale2006 and SmartMusic Accompaniment
I finally saved one of my Finale files as a SmartMusicAccompaniment file, since I had installed SmartMusic as part of the upgrade. Then I ran SmartMusic to see how well my file worked within SmartMusic. Imagine my shock when I was confronted with a message informing me that I needed to activate a subscription in order to open the file. Why should I have to activate a subscription with MakeMoney in order to use a file that I created? Am I doing something wrong, or are they trying to charge me to use my own file? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jul 2005 at 15:46, Eric Dannewitz wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: This kind of comment confuses me enormously. Isn't GPO being driven by MIDI data? Don't you really mean that you can't drive but the one synthesizer at a time if you're using GPO? Its an Audio Unit. Go look it up on Apple.com. It's not the same thing as MIDI. And on Windows? I know nothing about audio units on Windows, just software synths (which is what GPO with the Kontact player is, no?). I'm not sure how the VST plug-in architecture works. The Kontakt player isn't just a soft-synth. It is a software synth which only works via the VST plug-in architecture, and that may require communication via some method other than the midi specification. That may be why you can't change sounds simply by changing patches, as you can with traditional midi devices, including soundfonts played back through a soundcard, or even the included Finale soft-synth. I am still waiting to be shown why GPO/Kontakt playback is superior. A kind member of this list has offered to work on a file of mine to show me how to get improved playback via GPO. I am eager to see what the result is. It sure does seem to be a lot of additional work to get the sort of realistic results which ought to be possible simply by enabling HP and sending the output through whatever the playback-device-du-jour is. Having to define expressions specifically to work with GPO playback seems to me to be defeating to the purpose of being able to share files with other Finale users. How will such expressions work with non-GPO playback? I wish MakeMusic had decided to include some demo files to show us the way! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN - What printer to buy?
Paul Witney wrote: HI, I know this topic has been around before, but I wanted to get opinions as to what is the best printer to buy for Finale scores? I have Finale 2005, and am using windows XP. Thank you in advance ! Do you want 11x17 printing capability? Do you want to be able to print on larger paper, say 12x19, to generate more traditionally sized parts? Do you want to be able to duplex automatically? Do you want to go for large pages/month capability, or personal printer capability? Do you want monochromatic output or colored printing? Do you want laser-printer permanence or will ink-jet output suffice? Do you want a single-purpose monochromatic printer (such as mainly using it for b/w Finale output and text output) or do you want a multi-purpose printer (such as will print out photographs, colored graphics, mixed color and b/w output)? There is no single best printer which will satisfy all of our possible uses. Consider these questions, come up with some answers and then it will be easier to advise you. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Totally agree. I really think the GPO thing is fluff. I'd rather see Finale get better at importing Midi files. I hate when a Midi that I've done in Digital Performer does not come across correctly in Finale. It happens all the time. It's frustrating, and wastes time. Aaah, but think how much better that messed up file sounds with GPO playback! ;-) You mean you think they should repair midi import and possible get EPS export working on the windows platform before adding more bells and whistles? How dare you, that's not part of MakeMusic's corporate culture! :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
Darcy James Argue wrote: On 29 Jul 2005, at 8:13 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: Since the Kontakt Player only shows eight instruments, I've been having a hell of a time trying to load GPO patches for channels 9-16. I suspect it's something easy, but I've just not found it. Brad, You can't. AFAIK, you only get 64 AU/VST channels. Do you mean to tell us that we can only load 8 GPO instruments at a time? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
Darcy James Argue wrote: On 29 Jul 2005, at 8:03 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: If HP works with any GM synthesizer, what's the advantage of GPO, then? 1) Apparently opinions differ here, but I think GPO sounds are clearly *far* superior to the Finale SoundFont, especially the wind, ensemble strings, and percussion instruments. I agree the solo strings are weak, but so are the solo strings in the Finale soundfont (especially the awful new solo violin in the 2006 soundfont). I suspect a lot of people who say the Finale soundfont is just as good as GPO have terrible computer speakers. (I have a pair of M-Audio BX5 studio monitors, and the difference is really dramatic.) So now we need to buy $400 studio monitor speakers in addition to upgrading our processors and RAM to get the benefits of this aspect of the upgrade? I can listen to CDs on my computer and they sound fine and very realistic (I have a subwoofer and two fairly nice satellite speakers). When I play GPO vs. soundfonts there isn't any noticeable improvement with GPO (with the limited testing I've done so far) over the same Finale file played through the soundfont. Both sound much more synthetic than my CDs sound. From all the hoopla I would have expected to hear an enormous difference in playback of the same file between the GPO and the soundfont, and I don't hear that (apparently I'm not alone in this.) If Finale really wants to impress us, they should have shared some demo files which would have said (through example not just marketing brochure double-speak) THIS is how fantastic your files can sound! I see no such samples on my installation disk nor in any folders on my computer, and when I playback a file with the two different playback methods I hear no improvement, just different tonal quality. And neither comes close to the Kurzweil PC2r that I have. As to why Finale can't use VST along with traditional midi output under Windows while other programs can do that, probably the reason lies somewhere in a stack next to the reason why Finale can't do EPS export under Windows while other music programs can. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
David W. Fenton wrote: [snip] And does anyone fear that MakeMusic may have placed their bets on the wrong horse in the sound samples race? I'll raise my hand on this one. I'll go further and say that I think MakeMusic has made a huge mistake in including any such playback device. I have no problem if MakeMusic wish to include capabilities which are switchable in expressions, like the keyswitch expressions for GPO or whatever expression capabilities might be necessary for Finale to work with Reason, or any other softsynth. I have no problem with MakeMusic including VST plug-in capability, provided it would work with ALL VST soft-synth plug-ins. I have no problem with MakeMusic including DXi soft-synth capability. I have an enormous problem with the fact that the majority of my upgrade dollars have gone to something which is problematic to use at best (now we have to prepare THREE files -- one for printing, one for playback via GPO and another playback file to share with others who don't have machines powerful enough to use GPO.) Making a program more versatile is wonderful -- making that versatility locked irrevocably to a single third-party isn't a good thing. I wonder if Garritan is paying MakeMusic, in the hopes that out of frustration we'll pony up for the full GPO sounset as well as the $250 extra so we can have saxophones, when they're ready, or if MakeMusic is paying Garritan so that it can brag that its included Kontakt-based soundset is superior to Sibelius (can we really only load 8 instruments at once if we're using GPO? I thought somebody used that as an issue to show why Sibelius was inferior.) In any event, the plug-ins for mid-measure repeats work fine, the automatic adjustment of measure numbers when deleting a measure is very nice, but hardly worth the $100 upgrade fee. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Darcy James Argue wrote: On 29 Jul 2005, at 9:06 PM, John Hughes wrote: Mine sound just awful. I bought Fin2006 purely on the promise that I could at last hear my work sound something like real. But I'm afraid I was very disappointed. The same with Finale's HP. I could never use it. You mean you didn't listen to the samples available on both the MakeMusic and Garritan websites before you bought the upgrade? Those sound wonderful -- however from my limited work with the 2006 upgrade, it is painfully apparent that the quality comes at a huge cost in labor. We'll end up spending a lot of time in entering the score and then a lot more to get it to sound ever so perfect when played back in GPO. But we'll have to remember to do that work on a copy of the score, so we can maintain a third copy to be optimized for playback through non-GPO devices for sharing with those folks who don't have machines powerful enough to use GPO. It is obvious that for the demos on the web-sites they didn't just take an existing Finale file and divert its output to GPO. Obvious now, but not obvious from anything on the web-sites. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Tyler Turner wrote: Hi Craig, Darcy mentioned it, but I just want to make sure you caught it. For new compositions that you create with the setup wizard, you don't have to do any GPO setup. It's automatically done (and that's a major part of the integration). For older files, yes, you will have to spend some time converting them over. How much conversion is necessary for making a GPO-wizard file sharable with others who don't/can't use GPO for playback? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
ronan wrote: I admit I was somewhat disappointed with the Finale/GPO instruments. To me they didn't sound much better than the Softsynths. But I just got the patch so I can use the full GPO and I've got all those wonderful sounds back. There is a huge difference between the generic solo violin that comes with Finale and the Gagliano (and Stradavari and Guameri) solo violins that come with full GPO. So far, to me, the marriage has been seamless. New files created using the setup wizard automatically use the full GPO patches and expressions trigger the KS instruments as they should (except they don't seem to want to let strings play their first note as pizz. Must be a new rule in music.) So far, I'm happy. And the cost for being happy with the GPO/Finale integration? I mean for those of us who haven't already purchased the full GPO? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Darcy James Argue wrote: [snip] Some people seem to have wildly unrealistic expectations of what GPO is. It is *not* a massive, high-end sample library suitable for professional film scoring. It will *not* fool anybody (or at least, not anybody on this list) into thinking that they are listening to a real orchestra. It is a low-cost, easy-to-use orchestral sample library designed to provide good value for the money and seamless integration with Finale. (And it is *worlds* better than Finale's default sound font, at least when playing back through decent speakers.) By some people are you by any chance referring to the MakeMusic marketing people? Those who published on the web site that the GPO includes more than 100 studio-quality sounds -- that line certainly made me think it might be suitable for professional work. When else does anybody refer to studio-quality except to denote the pinnacle of musical performance? If they had marketed the GPO inclusion in the much more honest terms you used, Darcy, I think those of us who feel burned by MakeMusic wouldn't feel so bad. That MakeMusic spent so much of this upgrade's development resources on including a low-cost, easy-to-use orchestral sample library is what rankles the most. As to seamless integration it seems that may not exactly be true, especially if you wish to share files for playback with someone who doesn't have a machine capable of using GPO. I wonder how GPO-enabled files will playback in the 2006 version of NotePad? After all, that has long been a nice aspect of Finale, that we could share our files with folks who don't use Finale and they could still see them onscreen and hear them so they could make informed decisions about whether they wanted to buy/rent/perform our music. I would hope that MakeMusic would build the new version of NotePad so that will automatically convert all those keyswitch-enabled expressions so they worked like normally playback-enabled expressions. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
At 06:56 AM 7/30/05 -0400, dhbailey wrote: I'll go further and say that I think MakeMusic has made a huge mistake in including any such playback device. I agree with you. The production of 'human playback' Midi was worthwhile, because it pretty much covers the ground of how effective production is done once outside the Finale 'bottle'. I hope that option stays and doesn't get swamped by the GPO/Kontakt marketing, because it offers good raw material to work with. But trying to create yet another entirely proprietary studio from the ground up? It takes the product back to 1995. Someone said -- was it Raymond Horton? -- that he didn't want to have to learn sequencers. And yet here is a disguised version of the same thing, tied up in limitations and inflexibly bound to the approved manufacturers, provided with debilitated sets of samples, unable to be expanded with the musician/composer's own library, and almost as much work to set in motion. This is an alliance born out of sheer marketing desperation because it takes a professional engraving program, leaves behind the improvements and expansions and even debugging, and saddles it with the studio that's the artistic equivalent of a box of 16 Crayolas. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
At 06:35 AM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: Do you mean to tell us that we can only load 8 GPO instruments at a time? No, you can load 8 instruments into each of 8 instances of the player, for a total of 64. The (confusing) point was that it looks like you *should* be able to load 16 instruments into each (the label says 1-16), but you can only use the first 8. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
At 06:56 AM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: we have to prepare THREE files -- one for printing, one for playback via GPO and another playback file to share with others who don't have machines powerful enough to use GPO.) This does seem like sort of a problem. For example, for my own use, I will probably use Softsynth sounds by default, because my RAM is limited, but I would like to use GPO every now and then to hear what it sounds like. In theory, if your channels are set up correctly, you can just switch output between GPO and Softsynth. BUT...Softsynth (i.e., GM) percussion plays back on channel 10, and GPO won't let you use channel 10. So for anything including percussion, there are several steps involved (not just a switch) in changing between Softsynth and GPO. I understand the various reasons behind this, but I think it was poor planning on Makemusic's part not to provide some kind of automated way of making this happen. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
I have played around some more with the GPO and I will admit that its sounds really are an improvement over the soundfont. A large improvement? No. But an improvement nonetheless. Worth the majority of the upgrade development effort? No. Does anybody else notice that the green playback indicator for scrolling playback is just a bit (maybe a quarter of a beat at 120) ahead of the sounds? I do see now how to get more than 8 sounds to playback at one time (provided my computer has enough RAM to hold the samples.) I'll have to experiment and see if I can actually get 64 instruments loaded into my 1.8GHz P4 with 1GB of ram. The whole process should be a lot more straightforward than it is, though. Now if there were just more significant engraving improvements or an actually functioning EPS export for Windows. . . I would still appreciate some insight as to why I need to pay for a subscription to SmartMusic to use my own Finale-generated SmartMusic Accompaniment file. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 06:35 AM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: Do you mean to tell us that we can only load 8 GPO instruments at a time? No, you can load 8 instruments into each of 8 instances of the player, for a total of 64. The (confusing) point was that it looks like you *should* be able to load 16 instruments into each (the label says 1-16), but you can only use the first 8. I did finally figure that out -- now as to whether my computer is powerful enough to load 8 instances of the player. I wonder why the MakeMusic developers felt it incumbent on them to list those 8 instances for the VST player as 1-16 instead of 1-8? Would different NI-compatible soundsets actually allow use of all 16 channels of each instance? Onward to further experimentation. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 06:56 AM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: we have to prepare THREE files -- one for printing, one for playback via GPO and another playback file to share with others who don't have machines powerful enough to use GPO.) This does seem like sort of a problem. For example, for my own use, I will probably use Softsynth sounds by default, because my RAM is limited, but I would like to use GPO every now and then to hear what it sounds like. In theory, if your channels are set up correctly, you can just switch output between GPO and Softsynth. BUT...Softsynth (i.e., GM) percussion plays back on channel 10, and GPO won't let you use channel 10. So for anything including percussion, there are several steps involved (not just a switch) in changing between Softsynth and GPO. I understand the various reasons behind this, but I think it was poor planning on Makemusic's part not to provide some kind of automated way of making this happen. How difficult would it be for MakeMusic programmers to simply internally provide some sort of data massager to figure out that we've assigned data to channel 10 defined as percussion, and then do whatever is necessary (transparently to the user) to route that data to the proper GPO setup? That way the same file might actually be able to be made useable for GPO playback and non-GPO playback. Oh, well. Maybe they're working on the REAL Finale2006 upgrade, engraving enhancements, EPS export for Windows and all, to be released as Finale2006a and that will include such hiding of the nitty-gritty of using GPO and reconciling it with non-GPO usage. One can always hope. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
At 08:25 AM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: powerful enough to load 8 instances of the player. I wonder why the MakeMusic developers felt it incumbent on them to list those 8 instances for the VST player as 1-16 instead of 1-8? Would different NI-compatible soundsets actually allow use of all 16 channels of each instance? I think (though again, I'm just playing with this myself) that the full version of Kontakt allows for 16 channels. In limiting it to 8 (for whatever reason), I suppose it was easier to let the player start every 16, where it usually does, and disable the top 8 rather than making it start every 8. Also, I think that this allows some compatibility between Finale GPO and full GPO -- if a file is set up for Finale it should play in full GPO no problem. But if the player used 1-8 and then 9-16 in Finale GPO, when you tried to load full GPO you'd be asking it to put channel 9 in the second player rather than in the first where full GPO expects it. Please note that I'm just experimenting myself. If these answers are wrong, I hope someone will correct me. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN - What printer to buy?
I use the HP 5100 dtn (duplexing) on WinXP and there's no difference from what Ken reports. It has a parallel port built in so you can use it with Mac if you want (which I do, occasionally). Cecil Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) www.harrockhall.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Ken Durling [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been using an HP LaserJet 5100 for a few years now, and I simply can't imagine anything better. Fast, very high res, and will do large format - I regularly print 11x17 stapled booklets (in Sibelius - I have yet to explore printing in Finale yet, but it couldn't be THAT different) consisting of 8.5x11 pages. The only caution is that a laser printer runs hot and pages curl - so if you want to do a LOT of two-sided invest in a duplexer. Otherwise on large page counts there's a considerable delay while the first pass cools. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN - What printer to buy?
On Jul 29, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Paul Witney wrote: x-tad-biggerHI,/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerI know this topic has been around before, but I wanted to get opinions as to what is the best printer to buy for Finale scores? I have Finale 2005, and am using windows XP./x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerThank you in advance !/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger I would go definitely laser. It is so much faster, more resistant to wind player's moisture leaking, and in the long run the initial higher outlay is cheaper than inkjet cartridges you would have to buy. I have had many excellent years with my ancient HP LaserJet 4 (through Ethernet on my Mac), but recently acquired a second-hand HP 5100 on Ebay, and hope to get the same long, trouble-free life out of this one, too. If cost is an issue, the LaserJet 4 can be found for a song second-hand, and it is absolutely bullet-proof, though large, slow, and noisy, and it can only handle up to legal-size (8-1/2 x 14), whereas the 5100 can take 11x17, and can be auto-duplexed with the appropriate extra mechanism. Hewlett-Packard is my first choice, but there may be other brands out there that are as well-built, too. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Tyler Turner wrote: Hi Craig, Darcy mentioned it, but I just want to make sure you caught it. For new compositions that you create with the setup wizard, you don't have to do any GPO setup. It's automatically done (and that's a major part of the integration). For older files, yes, you will have to spend some time converting them over. Tyler Well, so far, that seems not to be true. I do a lot of my work with HyperScribe. I need to have metronome tracks. Somebody mentioned that GPO has a clave sound, but it most certainly does not play automatically. I guess if I want to spend a few hours hacking on this thing, I can figure out how to make a GPO score play a metronome track. I would have thought that would be handled. I consider the metronome rather fundamental. And until I have the metronome I cannot say whether the latency involved in rendering GPO will make the whole concept impractical for the compositional phase. In the past, the latency inherent in software synths made it impossible for me to work with it. I ended up with a $50 SoundBlaster Live card that gives me 32 channels of hardware synth with virtually no latency. From what I've seen so far, GPO is a giant step backwards for what I want to do with Finale. I have 4 projects stacked up, so I can't take the time to fart around with this stuff. It is a real disappointment that the functions aren't easy and intuitive to use right out of the box. What I heard of the GPO samples sounded really good. I loved the harp voice for example. If somebody has an easy procedure for making the metronome work with GPO, I might change my opinion. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN - What printer to buy?
I know this topic has been around before, but I wanted to get opinions as to what is the best printer to buy for Finale scores? I have Finale 2005, and am using windows XP. I've been using an HP LaserJet 5100 for a few years now, and I simply can't imagine anything better. I have an HP 5si MX (totallu maxed on memory with 92mb) and have a similar view, the HP laserjets are great - fast, clean copies, and a doodle to setup (certainly on OSX - can't speak for windows). Being able to print to A3 is a must as we're regularly producing proofs for 12x9. I actually wish I could go to A2 so we could do spreads, but then I probably wouldn't be able to get into the office! My previous LaserJet, an HP 6MP, withstood a couple of years of my cat sleeping in the output bin, occasionally being awoken by fresh copies forcing him to wake up and move. No amount of coaxing would make him sleep elsewhere, even when we bought him a special radiator cat hammock - so I guess I can add comfortable and warm to the list too! Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
On 30/07/05, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still waiting to be shown why GPO/Kontakt playback is superior. A kind member of this list has offered to work on a file of mine to show me how to get improved playback via GPO. I am eager to see what the result is. Jari has just put up a Sound Comparisons Page on his website: http://finaletips.nu/fin2006review/soundtech.php This demonstrates the difference between Finale GPO without HP, the SoftSynth with HP, and Finale GPO with HP. These are all done with minimal changes to Fin06's defaults (he describes the changes he makes). Also, he includes a higher-quality recording of the Finale GPO with HP example and a demonstration of the Full GPO with HP. The Last one seems to be more extensively tweaked since he mentions that the end result is very much a result of individual personal taste. Hopefully this will give you a more throrough audible explanation of the differences. I, for one, really enjoy the GPO examples; even those created with the Finale-included GPO sound set. The SoftSynth sounds horrible to me in comparison; but then again, I never used it anyway, preferring even QuickTime Instruments in Finale 2004 and 2005. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
Indeed. They should have included a couple of demos. Everyone who uses GPO says it takes some learning to get the best out of it. And, MakeMusic of course documented how to do itnot! I'd rather have had more improvements than GPO included. I seriously think this update sucks. It seems slower, more jerky at a lot of things than 2005 was. Oh, but I get a Handbell used chart, and easy copyright sign insertion. dhbailey wrote: I am still waiting to be shown why GPO/Kontakt playback is superior. A kind member of this list has offered to work on a file of mine to show me how to get improved playback via GPO. I am eager to see what the result is. It sure does seem to be a lot of additional work to get the sort of realistic results which ought to be possible simply by enabling HP and sending the output through whatever the playback-device-du-jour is. Having to define expressions specifically to work with GPO playback seems to me to be defeating to the purpose of being able to share files with other Finale users. How will such expressions work with non-GPO playback? I wish MakeMusic had decided to include some demo files to show us the way! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
Which is totally an oversight by MakeMusic. I don't know about VST (don't really use it), but I use GPO (full version) with Digital Performer, and I can easily have my cake (Audio Units) and eat it too (and Midi). It doesn't make sense that you can't mix it. You can get a max of 8 instruments with the GPO version that comes with Finale 2006? So, if you happen to do an arrangement that has more than 8 instruments, you are out of luck in using GPO. You'd have to use the soundfonts or Midi. dhbailey wrote: Yes, that's what he means. If you have turned on the USE VST option, you can't have some channels playback through your midi devices. How Finale actually communicates with GPO, I'll assume is midi data, but that's not what Randolph meant. He is discussing the possibility of using some staves assigned to channels which are sent to midi devices as defined in the midi-devices dialog, while having some others sent to GPO. Right now that's impossible. It's an either-or situation. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and SmartMusic Accompaniment
Ha! Welcome to Smartmusic. Please leave your credit card with MakeMusic. I think you can get around actually buying a subscription. Or you used to. You just won't be able to access the library of smart music. Perhaps they changed this dhbailey wrote: I finally saved one of my Finale files as a SmartMusicAccompaniment file, since I had installed SmartMusic as part of the upgrade. Then I ran SmartMusic to see how well my file worked within SmartMusic. Imagine my shock when I was confronted with a message informing me that I needed to activate a subscription in order to open the file. Why should I have to activate a subscription with MakeMoney in order to use a file that I created? Am I doing something wrong, or are they trying to charge me to use my own file? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] GPO/non-GPO workflow question
After talking about the features and drawbacks I have straightforward workflow questions. Reading all that's be written to date, I have some basic questions about how to use the program that I haven't heard addressed yet. What is the best way to start a new project in Finale? I can imagine a variety of issues to consider: * There are times when all I need is notation, in which case doing things as before should be fine. *There are times when I know I'll need GPO, so I'll start up with the GPO wizard (sub-question: does the GPO wizard draw from the Maestro Default File, or does it only wizard the playback aspects?). But in the many cases where I'm not how the project will play out, how do I proceed? * For instance, let's say I have a 17 staff score. Using Finale sans GPO means I'll have to double up on channels, as I only have 16 at my disposal. If I later move to GPO I'll have to 're-wire' the channels, right? * If I set up a score sans GPO and use pizz in the score without any further playback definition, Finale will play back arco, but with GPO it'll come out pizz (right?). If I define the pizz expression to playback as a patch change, would I have to change that definition when preparing the score for GPO? * It seems non-HP, non-GPO is the least processor intensive, so I'd be inclined to do most of the work that way, then move to HP/GPO later. Am I asking for troubles this way? I think I have a modestly useful machine -- G5 dual 2.0 GHz, 2 GB RAM, OS X 10.4 -- but I don't want to bog it down unnecessarily. However, I also don't want to prepare a score twice: one for GPO, one without. -- One other marginally related question: I read here (or Jari's review, or the Finale web site -- sorry that I can't remember) that GPO output is only for the sound that comes out of your speakers. Saving as audio does not save the HP/GPO performance. Do I remember that correctly? That would be awful if it were the case. (I do have Audio Hijack Pro, so presumably I could record it that way, but it certainly wouldn't be an elegant solution). Andrew Levin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
Despite my lack of enthusiasm for the wisdom of doing so, I frequently need to prepare demosin CD format of new compositions or arrangements for a few of the younger members of my orchestra. Can anyone tell me if saving as an audio file (in '06) offers the choice ofsoftsynth HP OR GPO playback - MY choice?Or is it a default over which I'd have no control? I'm still teetering on the cusp of upgrading to 2006 and need to be pushed over the edge or pulled back from the abyss Best and thanks for your collective advice -- Les Les MarsdenFounding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
Thank you ... I found this most helpful. Dean On Jul 30, 2005, at 8:40 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On 30/07/05, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still waiting to be shown why GPO/Kontakt playback is superior. A kind member of this list has offered to work on a file of mine to show me how to get improved playback via GPO. I am eager to see what the result is. Jari has just put up a Sound Comparisons Page on his website: http://finaletips.nu/fin2006review/soundtech.php This demonstrates the difference between Finale GPO without HP, the SoftSynth with HP, and Finale GPO with HP. These are all done with minimal changes to Fin06's defaults (he describes the changes he makes). Also, he includes a higher-quality recording of the Finale GPO with HP example and a demonstration of the Full GPO with HP. The Last one seems to be more extensively tweaked since he mentions that the end result is very much a result of individual personal taste. Hopefully this will give you a more throrough audible explanation of the differences. I, for one, really enjoy the GPO examples; even those created with the Finale-included GPO sound set. The SoftSynth sounds horrible to me in comparison; but then again, I never used it anyway, preferring even QuickTime Instruments in Finale 2004 and 2005. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale As a newly diagnosed diabetic, self denial is now my ally, exercise my master. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
- Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO On 29 Jul 2005, at 9:06 PM, John Hughes wrote: Mine sound just awful. I bought Fin2006 purely on the promise that I could at last hear my work sound something like real. But I'm afraid I was very disappointed. The same with Finale's HP. I could never use it. You mean you didn't listen to the samples available on both the MakeMusic and Garritan websites before you bought the upgrade? Darcy Yes I did, and that was the quality of sound I was expecting, but mine stinks. I have a Sound Blaster Audigy Audio (A400) sound card. So what's the problem? John - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
You can get a max of 8 instruments with the GPO version that comes with Finale 2006? So, if you happen to do an arrangement that has more than 8 instruments, you are out of luck in using GPO. You'd have to use the soundfonts or Midi. I seem to be able to address 8 banks or 8 instruments (64 different instruments). It looks like I should be able to address 8 banks of 16 instruments, but I can't figure out how to access, for example, the second tier of the the first bank (9 to 16). Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Which is totally an oversight by MakeMusic. I don't know about VST (don't really use it), but I use GPO (full version) with Digital Performer, and I can easily have my cake (Audio Units) and eat it too (and Midi). It doesn't make sense that you can't mix it. You can get a max of 8 instruments with the GPO version that comes with Finale 2006? So, if you happen to do an arrangement that has more than 8 instruments, you are out of luck in using GPO. You'd have to use the soundfonts or Midi. No, with Finale GPO and the full GPO you can get up to 64 instruments (8 slots X 8 instances) as AU/VST but with the full Kontact2 you can get 128 instruments (16 X 8). This is, of course, subject to RAM and processor speed. For some reason Finale GPO and the full GPO only offer 8 slots at a time. (You can assign these slots any MIDI channel number, for what it is worth.) -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Thanks. Dean On Jul 30, 2005, at 12:29 AM, Tyler Turner wrote: --- Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good explanation Tyler ... now, how do you feel about the GPO sounds? Are they as good as the samples provided on the MM site, or not? And if not, what gives? Also, I've just received the following message: Dear Finale Macintosh Customer; In a previous e-mail we informed you of an upgrade installation problem with Finale 2006. In that e-mail we described how to remove a folder from your Macintosh before running the installer. Since then we have created a small program that will automatically find and delete the folder for you. Again, this MUST be run BEFORE you run the Finale 2006 installer. In order for this pre-installer to work properly you must quit all running applications prior to installation. If you haven't already deleted this folder, you can download this program, the Pre-installer for Finale 2006, and run it from your desktop. It will only take a few seconds. Select the link below to download. I downloaded this and activated it, as I have not yet installed my 2006, though it is sitting by my side as I write. I got a message that my system didn't need the pre-installer's benefit. Should I trust this and go ahead with installation ... even if so many are disappointed with GPO sounds? Dean I'm pleased with the GPO sounds. They absolutely require some use of the special Ambience reverb plug-in that's included, and it's possible that some people here haven't had a chance to really experiment with that and find settings that work well. The right reverb settings improve the sound 500%. (disclaimer - I know that there are people on this list who are against the idea of using reverb, but GPO sounds were designed with the idea that reverb would be used) The demos on MakeMusic's webpage are definitely better than average, but they're not unrealistic. I have at least one that I pulled from the Showcase, played from Finale and found I thought sounded better than the demos. There's a lot of variation - some sound great with GPO and others are less of an improvement. You could check to see if the folder that the first e-mail told you to remove is gone. If it's gone, then it should be safe to install. If you're concerned, you could first create a copy of the folder that was getting wiped out. Tyler Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale As a newly diagnosed diabetic, self denial is now my ally, exercise my master. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Totally agree. I really think the GPO thing is fluff. I'd rather see Finale get better at importing Midi files. I hate when a Midi that I've done in Digital Performer does not come across correctly in Finale. It happens all the time. It's frustrating, and wastes time. I think it would be a waste of MakeMusic's time to do much more work on the MIDI import. MIDI is not a very good format for representing music notation - it leaves way too much out, making programs guess at what the MIDI files mean. Computer programs aren't very good at guessing. You would get better results if Digital Performer (and Logic, and Cubase) exported MusicXML files. You could then read the notation into either Finale or Sibelius with much greater accuracy than MIDI will ever be able to provide. New notation-based programs like Notion are supporting MusicXML import before they support MIDI import. So I think that the people who can best solve moving files from Digital Performer to Finale are at MOTU rather than MakeMusic. If you agree, please let MOTU know. It means much more if they hear it from customers like you rather than a vendor like us. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Problem accessing user manual
DAVID, YOU'RE A PRINCE. Your suggestion worked. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to help fellow Finale strugglers. It must happen so often to members on the list who sometimes reach the point of desperation, when a shining light reaches out to them from another member and another suicide is prevented. Now I can get on, and finally I will be able see what this fin2006 is all about. Many, many thanks. John - Original Message - From: David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Problem accessing user manual On 29 Jul 2005 at 19:39, John Hughes wrote: You are no doubt right that the problem isn't with Finale. I think it was caused some weeks ago when I tried to open some obscure file that, at the moment, I can't remember where it came from. The computer gave me the message that it doesn't know what programme created the file, then provided me with a list of programmes and invited me to choose one which might open the file. This has happened before, but with the file being unimportant I never took up the offer. But this time I thought I would try something, and so chose Notepad - which didn't work. However, since then, whenever I try to open a file that should open in Acrobat it opens in Notepad, and is completely unintelligible. I must find a way around this. It's driving me crackers. I can't guarantee this will work on your version of Windows, but I just tested in on Win2K and it worked. Go to Control Panel, and open the FOLDER OPTIONS tool. Navigate to the FILE TYPES tab. Scroll down the list looking for PDF. Highlight it. There should be a buton on the bottom that says RESTORE. Click that, and the original file association should be restored. If that doesn't work, click the CHANGE button, instead, and point to Adobe Acrobat Reader. I'm assuming, though, that it is already fully installed, otherwise, it won't appear as one of the choices (nor as a possibility for restoring the original file association). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
The sound of full GPO compared to Finale/GPO is 100% better. Finale used generic sounding instruments, while in Garritan's GPO you get instruments with character. Frankly, I can't tell the difference between Softsynths and the Finale/GPO instruments, but I don't have the best of hearing. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com -Original Message- From: Dean M. Estabrook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 30, 2005 1:11 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading And what did you think of the sound quality? Dean On Jul 29, 2005, at 8:12 PM, ronan wrote: Maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem, but you can assign channels 9 - 16 to a 2nd instance of Kontakt player. I would renumber 9-16 as 17-24 just to keep things straight. So far I've tried F2006/GPO with 24 instruments and no problems. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 29, 2005 8:28 PM To: finale@shsu.edu; Brad Beyenhof Subject: Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading On 29 Jul 2005, at 8:13 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: Since the Kontakt Player only shows eight instruments, I've been having a hell of a time trying to load GPO patches for channels 9-16. I suspect it's something easy, but I've just not found it. Brad, You can't. AFAIK, you only get 64 AU/VST channels. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale As a newly diagnosed diabetic, self denial is now my ally, exercise my master. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
No, you can load up to 64 instruments at a time. There are 8 instances of the Kontakt player that can be loaded under Midi set up. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com -Original Message- From: dhbailey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 30, 2005 6:36 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading Do you mean to tell us that we can only load 8 GPO instruments at a time? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is it just me?
At 05:56 PM 7/29/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: Well, you won't encounter the problems unless you persist in using your optical drives like removable disks, i.e., the way you could in all previous versions of Windows. Here's the scenario that reveals the problems: Use commandline XCOPY to backup files to a CD-R. Try it once. It will work. Try it 3 times, and chances are that 1 of those attempts will hang and never finish. And you won't be able to shut down your PC without pulling the plug. That is what CD-RW media is for. CD-R media is for making permanent backups of some particular state. I would never have imagined that your particular case would have ever worked. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
In the Kontakt player, in the box underneath the CPO Usage box is a happy face? cat? (it's so small I can't make out what it's suppose to be.) Click that and you can assign an input channel to the instrument you have selected. So, yes, you can have Finale write to Channels 9-16, the have your second instance of Kontakt point to channels 9-16 for their input. But, why bother? It's easier to keep track of everything if you just use 1-8, 17-24, in the first place. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com -Original Message- From: Aaron Sherber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 30, 2005 8:41 AM To: finale@shsu.edu; finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading At 08:25 AM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: powerful enough to load 8 instances of the player. I wonder why the MakeMusic developers felt it incumbent on them to list those 8 instances for the VST player as 1-16 instead of 1-8? Would different NI-compatible soundsets actually allow use of all 16 channels of each instance? I think (though again, I'm just playing with this myself) that the full version of Kontakt allows for 16 channels. In limiting it to 8 (for whatever reason), I suppose it was easier to let the player start every 16, where it usually does, and disable the top 8 rather than making it start every 8. Also, I think that this allows some compatibility between Finale GPO and full GPO -- if a file is set up for Finale it should play in full GPO no problem. But if the player used 1-8 and then 9-16 in Finale GPO, when you tried to load full GPO you'd be asking it to put channel 9 in the second player rather than in the first where full GPO expects it. Please note that I'm just experimenting myself. If these answers are wrong, I hope someone will correct me. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
I read in another site that Save as Audio will be in a maintenance release. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com From: Mariposa Symphony Orchestra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 30, 2005 12:12 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving Despite my lack of enthusiasm for the wisdom of doing so, I frequently need to prepare demosin CD format of new compositions or arrangements for a few of the younger members of my orchestra. Can anyone tell me if saving as an audio file (in '06) offers the choice ofsoftsynth HP OR GPO playback - MY choice?Or is it a default over which I'd have no control? I'm still teetering on the cusp of upgrading to 2006 and need to be pushed over the edge or pulled back from the abyss Best and thanks for your collective advice -- Les Les Marsden Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html http://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
On 30 Jul 2005, at 12:27 PM, John Hughes wrote: - Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mine sound just awful. I bought Fin2006 purely on the promise that I could at last hear my work sound something like real. But I'm afraid I was very disappointed. The same with Finale's HP. I could never use it. You mean you didn't listen to the samples available on both the MakeMusic and Garritan websites before you bought the upgrade? Darcy Yes I did, and that was the quality of sound I was expecting, but mine stinks. I have a Sound Blaster Audigy Audio (A400) sound card. So what's the problem? Well, perhaps if you could be a bit more specific about what you mean by stinks? I don't know anything about PC sound cards, but they shouldn't make that much difference -- we're talking about digital audio here. The demos on the Finale website are a fair representation of the GPO sounds included with Finale. If you are hearing some kind of dramatic difference between the demos and the bundled sounds, there's something wrong. Do you have Ambience enabled? Which GPO instruments sound different from the ones used in the demos? What kind of speakers are you using? What HP settings are you using? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
On 30 Jul 2005, at 7:06 AM, dhbailey wrote: Tyler Turner wrote: Hi Craig, Darcy mentioned it, but I just want to make sure you caught it. For new compositions that you create with the setup wizard, you don't have to do any GPO setup. It's automatically done (and that's a major part of the integration). For older files, yes, you will have to spend some time converting them over. How much conversion is necessary for making a GPO-wizard file sharable with others who don't/can't use GPO for playback? None. The Setup Wizard configures for both GPO and Finale soundfont (General MIDI) playback simultaneously. HP handles the rest. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2006 installer WARNING!
Stephen Peters / 2005/07/29 / 01:38 PM wrote: But this is a matter of testing *other* applications to make sure that they still worked after the procedure, which I strongly doubt is part of their test suite. Address Book is a part of OSX, which is not other application in this context. Look, when you do install testing on Windows, and if the installer touches any of Windows .dll, it is mandatory to test IE and Office because they have a lot of shared .dlls. This is the way it is no matter what. In case of Windows, you are also supposed to check the registry entries even Burn Test scenario. I mentioned this before. It could had been my imagination, but I have been feeling Finale got much more buggy than around v2.6 period, when I didn't see too many how they didn't catch/fix this one kinda bags. I should give Coda a credit for issuing a workaround application quickly, tho. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
On 30 Jul 2005, at 6:56 AM, dhbailey wrote: I have an enormous problem with the fact that the majority of my upgrade dollars have gone to something which is problematic to use at best (now we have to prepare THREE files -- one for printing, one for playback via GPO and another playback file to share with others who don't have machines powerful enough to use GPO.) No you don't. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO/non-GPO workflow question
On 30 Jul 2005, at 12:02 PM, Andrew Levin wrote: What is the best way to start a new project in Finale? Setup Wizard. *There are times when I know I'll need GPO, so I'll start up with the GPO wizard There is no GPO Wizard. There is an option in the Setup Wizard to use GPO Finale Edition for playback. (sub-question: does the GPO wizard draw from the Maestro Default File Yes. * For instance, let's say I have a 17 staff score. Using Finale sans GPO means I'll have to double up on channels, as I only have 16 at my disposal. That's not true. You have 128 channels at your disposal (or 64 if you are using Fin GPO). If I later move to GPO I'll have to 're-wire' the channels, right? Not if you use the Setup Wizard * If I set up a score sans GPO and use pizz in the score without any further playback definition, Finale will play back arco, No, not if Human Playback is on. but with GPO it'll come out pizz (right?). If I define the pizz expression to playback as a patch change, would I have to change that definition when preparing the score for GPO? You don't have to define anything. With HP on, the same pizz expression works both with the Finale soundfont (and, I presume, any GM playback device) and GPO. * It seems non-HP, non-GPO is the least processor intensive, so I'd be inclined to do most of the work that way, then move to HP/GPO later. Am I asking for troubles this way? Not if you use the Setup Wizard. I think I have a modestly useful machine -- G5 dual 2.0 GHz, 2 GB RAM, OS X 10.4 You have plenty of horsepower for GPO. I think you'll find with the AU version of GPO, you can leave it on all the time. (You may have to reduce the polyphony of the piano, harp, percussion, strings, etc.) -- but I don't want to bog it down unnecessarily. However, I also don't want to prepare a score twice: one for GPO, one without. You don't have to. One other marginally related question: I read here (or Jari's review, or the Finale web site -- sorry that I can't remember) that GPO output is only for the sound that comes out of your speakers. Saving as audio does not save the HP/GPO performance. Do I remember that correctly? Yes. That would be awful if it were the case. Yes it is. That feature is scheduled to be added in 2006a. (I do have Audio Hijack Pro, so presumably I could record it that way, but it certainly wouldn't be an elegant solution). I agree, but Audio Hijack does work -- I've done it. I hope when Save as Audio is introduced, it isn't done in real-time -- in other words, I hope that the performance issues related to playing back large scores don't affect Save as Audio (as they do when Saving as Audio in GPO Studio). - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
On 30 Jul 2005, at 11:46 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: You can get a max of 8 instruments with the GPO version that comes with Finale 2006? No. Max 64 channels (and many are keyswitching, so no need to use up separate channels for arco violins and pizz violins. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
On 30 Jul 2005, at 11:40 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On 30/07/05, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still waiting to be shown why GPO/Kontakt playback is superior. A kind member of this list has offered to work on a file of mine to show me how to get improved playback via GPO. I am eager to see what the result is. Jari has just put up a Sound Comparisons Page on his website: http://finaletips.nu/fin2006review/soundtech.php That's great! Thanks, Jari. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
On 30 Jul 2005, at 1:26 PM, ronan wrote: In the Kontakt player, in the box underneath the CPO Usage box is a happy face? cat? (it's so small I can't make out what it's suppose to be.) Click that and you can assign an input channel to the instrument you have selected. So, yes, you can have Finale write to Channels 9-16, the have your second instance of Kontakt point to channels 9-16 for their input. No, not when using the AU/VST version of GPO in Fin2006. The second instance is hardwired to channels 17-32, and so on. You can, of course, change the default channel assignments of the first instance to any channel between 1 and 16, but there's not much point in doing that. Just let the Setup Wizard put the channels where it wants, and everything works. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
On 30 Jul 2005, at 12:11 PM, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote: Can anyone tell me if saving as an audio file (in '06) offers the choice of softsynth HP OR GPO playback - MY choice? Or is it a default over which I'd have no control? Save as Audio for GPO is not hooked up yet. Yes, that's extremely disappointing. It's scheduled to be added in maintenance. Meanwhile, you can use third-party apps like Audio Hijack Pro to record GPO playback from Finale. A kludge, of course, but it works. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: Saxophonist Michael Brecker needs bone marrow donor
Details here: http://tinyurl.com/d4wrm - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
Disappointing: yes. Surprising: no. But thanks very much for the info, Darcy -- Best, Les Les MarsdenFounding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm - Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving On 30 Jul 2005, at 12:11 PM, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote: Can anyone tell me if saving as an audio file (in '06) offers the choice of softsynth HP OR GPO playback - MY choice? Or is it a default over which I'd have no control?Save as Audio for GPO is not hooked up yet. Yes, that's extremely disappointing. It's scheduled to be added in maintenance. Meanwhile, you can use third-party apps like Audio Hijack Pro to record GPO playback from Finale. A kludge, of course, but it works.- Darcy-[EMAIL PROTECTED]Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Ok ... just installed 2006 w/out any problems I can detect. Messed around with a couple of instruments in GPO (Eng. Hrn. and Cl.) in a little duet I wrote. I think the quality of the sounds and human playback are excellent, as promised. However, when I added a couple of more instruments, as Darcy predicted, I started getting the crackle and pop because I just running an iMac at 600 Mhz. If I upgrade the processor, I can see no reason at present why I would be unhappy with 2006. Another however, however, in Hyperscribe, out of GPO, the only countoff and click sound I seem to be able to get is my acoustic grand piano. I guess I can live with this, but I'd sure rather have a percussion sound. Dean On Jul 30, 2005, at 10:39 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 30 Jul 2005, at 12:27 PM, John Hughes wrote: - Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mine sound just awful. I bought Fin2006 purely on the promise that I could at last hear my work sound something like real. But I'm afraid I was very disappointed. The same with Finale's HP. I could never use it. You mean you didn't listen to the samples available on both the MakeMusic and Garritan websites before you bought the upgrade? Darcy Yes I did, and that was the quality of sound I was expecting, but mine stinks. I have a Sound Blaster Audigy Audio (A400) sound card. So what's the problem? Well, perhaps if you could be a bit more specific about what you mean by stinks? I don't know anything about PC sound cards, but they shouldn't make that much difference -- we're talking about digital audio here. The demos on the Finale website are a fair representation of the GPO sounds included with Finale. If you are hearing some kind of dramatic difference between the demos and the bundled sounds, there's something wrong. Do you have Ambience enabled? Which GPO instruments sound different from the ones used in the demos? What kind of speakers are you using? What HP settings are you using? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale As a newly diagnosed diabetic, self denial is now my ally, exercise my master. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
At 11:46 AM 07/30/2005, Eric Dannewitz wrote: You can get a max of 8 instruments with the GPO version that comes with Finale 2006? This has been said elsewhere, but just to be clear: You can get 64 instruments. You can instantiate 8 Kontakt players, and each player can have 8 instruments. That makes 64. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
At 12:34 PM 07/30/2005, Simon Troup wrote: It looks like I should be able to address 8 banks of 16 instruments, but I can't figure out how to access, for example, the second tier of the the first bank (9 to 16). You can't. For whatever reason, and whatever limitation, you can only access the first tier of each bank. So you get 8 instruments in each of 8 banks, for 64 total. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
At 02:11 PM 07/30/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: Save as Audio for GPO is not hooked up yet. Well, that's really stupid. I would assume that most people who are using GPO want it to produce demo CDs for others, not just for their own in-house enjoyment. I know there are workarounds and ways of getting this, but it's really stupid of MakeMusic not to include it out of the box. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
- Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO On 30 Jul 2005, at 12:27 PM, John Hughes wrote: - Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mine sound just awful. I bought Fin2006 purely on the promise that I could at last hear my work sound something like real. But I'm afraid I was very disappointed. The same with Finale's HP. I could never use it. You mean you didn't listen to the samples available on both the MakeMusic and Garritan websites before you bought the upgrade? Darcy Yes I did, and that was the quality of sound I was expecting, but mine stinks. I have a Sound Blaster Audigy Audio (A400) sound card. So what's the problem? Well, perhaps if you could be a bit more specific about what you mean by stinks? I don't know anything about PC sound cards, but they shouldn't make that much difference -- we're talking about digital audio here. The demos on the Finale website are a fair representation of the GPO sounds included with Finale. If you are hearing some kind of dramatic difference between the demos and the bundled sounds, there's something wrong. Do you have Ambience enabled? Which GPO instruments sound different from the ones used in the demos? What kind of speakers are you using? What HP settings are you using? - Darcy The trumpet, for a start, sounds absolutely nothing like a trumpet. I am a trumpet player and the sound I hear really offends me. As to all the other instruments, even though they vary amongst each other as to degree of reality, they all have unpleasant coloration. My Altec Lansing speakers provide very good sound, so the blame cannot be laid there. The demos I have tried from the internet all sound good, or at least as good as would satisfy me if I could get mine to sound as good. So, in view of the comments from members of the list who say how superior the GPO sounds are, I can only surmise that for some reason the problem remains with me. Although, for the life of me I can't see any alterative (that works) to the way I have things set up at the moment. John Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
On 30 Jul 2005, at 3:02 PM, John Hughes wrote: The trumpet, for a start, sounds absolutely nothing like a trumpet. I am a trumpet player and the sound I hear really offends me. Everyone's always biased towards their own instrument. Johannes has said that the solo violins sound nothing like solo violins. I'm sure oboe players would say the same of the oboe patch, etc. Again, GPO is a rough approximation (but a vast improvement over the default soundfont, as Jari's excellent demo shows). As to all the other instruments, even though they vary amongst each other as to degree of reality, they all have unpleasant coloration. John, they are exactly the same instruments you heard on the Finale website. If the unpleasant coloration was absent there, then you ought not to have anything to complain about. Have you tried the sounds *in context* (i.e., in an ensemble), with HP and Ambience Reverb on? My Altec Lansing speakers provide very good sound, so the blame cannot be laid there. The demos I have tried from the internet all sound good, or at least as good as would satisfy me if I could get mine to sound as good. So, in view of the comments from members of the list who say how superior the GPO sounds are They are definitely superior to the Finale sound font. Clearly, they are not superior to professional orchestral sample libraries costing thousands of dollars. You have to be realistic in your expectations. I can only surmise that for some reason the problem remains with me. Although, for the life of me I can't see any alterative (that works) to the way I have things set up at the moment. Well, how *do* you have things set up at the moment? Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Of course you'd like it to work with MusicXML. Isn't that YOUR company? Where is the guess work in MIDI files? Example, I can do something in Digital Performer, load it into Logic, and it looks the same. Triplets come out as triplets. Etc. But I load the same file into Finale, and the triplet comes out wrong. Or maybe Finale decides that a whole note isn't exactly a whole note anymore. Hell, even Cakewalk usually does a better job importing MIDI than Finale. I'm concerned with it just getting the notes and rhythms right, not all the other stuff that goes into music notation. If it could import Midi's 99% better I'd be happy. Michael Good wrote: I think it would be a waste of MakeMusic's time to do much more work on the MIDI import. MIDI is not a very good format for representing music notation - it leaves way too much out, making programs guess at what the MIDI files mean. Computer programs aren't very good at guessing. You would get better results if Digital Performer (and Logic, and Cubase) exported MusicXML files. You could then read the notation into either Finale or Sibelius with much greater accuracy than MIDI will ever be able to provide. New notation-based programs like Notion are supporting MusicXML import before they support MIDI import. So I think that the people who can best solve moving files from Digital Performer to Finale are at MOTU rather than MakeMusic. If you agree, please let MOTU know. It means much more if they hear it from customers like you rather than a vendor like us. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Fin2006 and GPO
My Dear Listfriends, As one who (wisely?) sprang for GPO prior to MakeMusic's (MM) 2006 announcement, I would like to add my two cents to what I've read so far. 1. GPO is a lovely set of sounds with really terrible documentation. I know how the percussion works now, I simply cannot imagine how to combine playback and a modicum of notation for performance. 2. The lack of documentation seems to occur as it springs from the NATIVE INSTRUMENTS and KONTAKT world. If you think MM is hyper about protection with lame setups, try NI;-) 3. As yet no one seems to be able to access 128 voices. 4. If we're confused, just imagine how it's going to be for the rest of the world. 5. I have ordered KONTAKT in the deal with 2006 regidtration. I hope I may be able to report that this acquisition will enable me to prepare some materials to find a way outof this mess for us;-) Henry Howey Professor of Music Sam Houston State University Box 2208 Huntsville, TX 77341 (936) 294-1364 http://www.shsu.edu/~music/faculty/howey.html Owner of FINALE Discussion List ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Where is the guess work in MIDI files? Example, I can do something in Digital Performer, load it into Logic, and it looks the same. Triplets come out as triplets. Etc. But I load the same file into Finale, and the triplet comes out wrong. Hi eric I'm intrigued, if you have a moment send me a midi file that does this in Finale. Personally I've never run into these sorts of problems. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Where is the setting for Ambiance Reverb? I've missed it somehow. MIDI Native Instruments AU SetUp Ambience Reverb Edit It's at the bottom of the dialog box. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
dennis c. wrote: dhbailey wrote: In any event, the plug-ins for mid-measure repeats work fine, the automatic adjustment of measure numbers when deleting a measure is very nice, but hardly worth the $100 upgrade fee. One wonders why you were in such a hurry to spend these 100 bucks. After reading the blurb, it was quite clear that there weren't many interesting new features and that EPS export was still broken. Why not wait in that case to hear reports from others? Or try the demo version before ordering? After all, not only you would have saved your 100 bucks, but you might have had some influence on future upgrades if a certain number of us, instead of buying the upgrade, had written back to MM and asked them when they would fix EPS export, implement dynamic parts or a minimal backwards compatibility. (Not that MM is in the habit of ever answering any of these questions...) Yes, it makes me wonder, too. In the past, even when there hasn't been much of great import touted in the upgrades, I have found each one I have purchased (every one since I started using version 3.5) to have had significant numbers of small improvements all through the program. I have never been disappointed until now. I ordered the upgrade as I always do, as soon as it's announced, on the assumption that MakeMusic was still up to its previous history of major additions/improvements being advertised and many smaller but still improvements made. No more. This is the last upgrade which I will buy on blind faith. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and SmartMusic Accompaniment
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Ha! Welcome to Smartmusic. Please leave your credit card with MakeMusic. I think you can get around actually buying a subscription. Or you used to. You just won't be able to access the library of smart music. Perhaps they changed this They've apparently changed this because when I try to play my own music, entered into Finale and saved as a SmartMusic Accompaniment (under File, SaveSpecial, etc.) I get the you can't open this file without activating a subscription with MakeMusic. Thanks a lot, MakeMusic. When will you give me my share of your income from my files? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
On 30 Jul 2005 at 7:37, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 06:56 AM 7/30/05 -0400, dhbailey wrote: I'll go further and say that I think MakeMusic has made a huge mistake in including any such playback device. I agree with you. The production of 'human playback' Midi was worthwhile, because it pretty much covers the ground of how effective production is done once outside the Finale 'bottle'. I hope that option stays and doesn't get swamped by the GPO/Kontakt marketing, because it offers good raw material to work with. I would much rather see HP opened up so that one could tune the parameters that are behind the scenes, rather than seeing black-box enhancements specific to one set of samples. I'm not going to have a GPO-capable PC for a long time, so this means I won't be upgrading, despite the fact that I would like to have HP capability (I think it's a great technology, well-implemented, so far). But now it seems that you only get the most of out HP with the proprietary sound libraries. And let me say this: I'm skeptical of software-based sound synthesis to begin with. It makes no sense to me to burden the CPU with this kind of specialized processing. It's one thing to have soundfonts that can be loaded into your sound card, but it's entirely another to have it done entirely in software. My Turtle Beach sound card is 6 or 7 years old and some of its GM sounds are better than the GPO sounds (though it doesn't have all the capabilities and options). Using it does not in any way burden my CPU. That sounds *good* to me. Secondly, not all soft synths seem to me to burden the CPU to the extent that GPO appears to (well, the Kontakt player), so it looks to me like something is wrong with the design of the whole subsystem. It's almost as if the memory usage increases exponentially with each added instrument, from what people have said. Maybe I'm old-fashioned and hopelessly mired in PC-type thinking (with dedicated chips for specific functions), but it seems to me like all of this is a step backward. If in this era of systems with 10 times the RAM and 10 times the MHz of the PCs for which my Turtle Beach sound card was developed, it seems to me like we ought to be getting something not so enormously resource hungry that it drags even late model hardware with huge amounts of RAM to its knees. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
Darcy James Argue wrote: On 30 Jul 2005, at 6:56 AM, dhbailey wrote: I have an enormous problem with the fact that the majority of my upgrade dollars have gone to something which is problematic to use at best (now we have to prepare THREE files -- one for printing, one for playback via GPO and another playback file to share with others who don't have machines powerful enough to use GPO.) No you don't. Why not? I just set up an orchestral score with 16 instruments, using the GPO wizard. Both GPO and Instrument List are configured now to use channels 1-8 and 17-24. How will I not have to prepare two different playback files, in order for someone not using GPO to have my file playback on the only 16 channels in their soundcard? Or are MakeMusic planning on having NotePad be able to access more than the basic 16 channels of midi playback? Or are you saying that I just have to remember to go back through instrument list and edit all those 17-24 channels so that they are redefined to use channels 9-16. And then how would channel 10 be handled? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok ... just installed 2006 w/out any problems I can detect. Messed around with a couple of instruments in GPO (Eng. Hrn. and Cl.) in a little duet I wrote. I think the quality of the sounds and human playback are excellent, as promised. However, when I added a couple of more instruments, as Darcy predicted, I started getting the crackle and pop because I just running an iMac at 600 Mhz. If I upgrade the processor, I can see no reason at present why I would be unhappy with 2006. Another however, however, in Hyperscribe, out of GPO, the only countoff and click sound I seem to be able to get is my acoustic grand piano. I guess I can live with this, but I'd sure rather have a percussion sound. I believe you can assign that to be channel 10 so you get percussion sounds rather than piano sounds. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 02:11 PM 07/30/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: Save as Audio for GPO is not hooked up yet. Well, that's really stupid. I would assume that most people who are using GPO want it to produce demo CDs for others, not just for their own in-house enjoyment. I know there are workarounds and ways of getting this, but it's really stupid of MakeMusic not to include it out of the box. Timetables, Aaron, timetables. Deadlines doth make compromisers of us all. Better a product which doesn't work as it should but is shipped when promised than a product which excels but may be late. MakeMusic learned that the hard way with OSX and all the bitching about them being late with that, so I can see why they have a get it out the door and we'll fix it in an update mentality these days. :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
Aaron Sherber wrote: At 11:46 AM 07/30/2005, Eric Dannewitz wrote: You can get a max of 8 instruments with the GPO version that comes with Finale 2006? This has been said elsewhere, but just to be clear: You can get 64 instruments. You can instantiate 8 Kontakt players, and each player can have 8 instruments. That makes 64. If your computer can handle all 8 instances of the Kontakt player. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
On 30 Jul 2005 at 8:40, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On 30/07/05, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still waiting to be shown why GPO/Kontakt playback is superior. A kind member of this list has offered to work on a file of mine to show me how to get improved playback via GPO. I am eager to see what the result is. Jari has just put up a Sound Comparisons Page on his website: http://finaletips.nu/fin2006review/soundtech.php Kudos to Jari for doing this, and thanks to you, Brad, for bringing it to our attention It clearly shows that the Finale soundfont is inferior to GPO, but I find the Finale GPO soundset to be not all that great. The strings are pretty wonderful, yes, but the winds are just not good, it seems to me. The flute and oboe sound like the corresponding stops on a 19th-century organ instead of like the real instruments (there's no audible attack). The full GPO winds are vastly superior. But the strings used in the full GPO sample seem to me to be weak, and larded over with extra reverb. Now, maybe it's my PC speakers, but the presence of the Finale GPO strings sounds quite a lot better (mostly) than the full GPO strings. The only exception is for the ends of phrases, where the full GPO strings are much more musical. Again, it seems to me like GPO strings are wonderful and everything else is pretty mediocre. While I applaud the effort to improve default playback in Finale: 1. I think it's a mistake to provide that improvement by tying Finale to a particular technology, one that requires Finale to know the insides of the technology chosen, instead of treating it like a black box with an interface like every equivalent technology. 2. I also think it's a mistake to choose a technology that is so resource-intensive as to not even run on a lot of the hardware out there that is running current versions of Finale just fine. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
- Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO On 30 Jul 2005, at 3:02 PM, John Hughes wrote: The trumpet, for a start, sounds absolutely nothing like a trumpet. I am a trumpet player and the sound I hear really offends me. Everyone's always biased towards their own instrument. Johannes has said that the solo violins sound nothing like solo violins. I'm sure oboe players would say the same of the oboe patch, etc. Again, GPO is a rough approximation (but a vast improvement over the default soundfont, as Jari's excellent demo shows). As to all the other instruments, even though they vary amongst each other as to degree of reality, they all have unpleasant coloration. John, they are exactly the same instruments you heard on the Finale website. If the unpleasant coloration was absent there, then you ought not to have anything to complain about. Once again - if the sounds I get were as good as the ones on the demo then I would not be complaining. It is precisely because the coloration on my sounds were absent on the demo that is why I am complaining. Have you tried the sounds *in context* (i.e., in an ensemble), with HP and Ambience Reverb on? My Altec Lansing speakers provide very good sound, so the blame cannot be laid there. The demos I have tried from the internet all sound good, or at least as good as would satisfy me if I could get mine to sound as good. So, in view of the comments from members of the list who say how superior the GPO sounds are They are definitely superior to the Finale sound font. Clearly, they are not superior to professional orchestral sample libraries costing thousands of dollars. You have to be realistic in your expectations. I can only surmise that for some reason the problem remains with me. Although, for the life of me I can't see any alterative (that works) to the way I have things set up at the moment. Well, how *do* you have things set up at the moment? MIDI IN SB Audigy Midi Port MIDI OUT Smart Music Soft Synth ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is it just me?
On 30 Jul 2005 at 13:10, Phil Daley wrote: At 05:56 PM 7/29/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: Well, you won't encounter the problems unless you persist in using your optical drives like removable disks, i.e., the way you could in all previous versions of Windows. Here's the scenario that reveals the problems: Use commandline XCOPY to backup files to a CD-R. Try it once. It will work. Try it 3 times, and chances are that 1 of those attempts will hang and never finish. And you won't be able to shut down your PC without pulling the plug. That is what CD-RW media is for. *What* is what CD-R media are for? Notice that I didn't say CD-RW, but CD-R. CD-R media is for making permanent backups of some particular state. Yes. That's what I said. CD-R. I would never have imagined that your particular case would have ever worked. Read my message again -- I said CD-R. I was using XCOPY to make backups. Indeed, that's the way I've been doing it with many of my clients since the days before CD-R drives were common and they were using Zip drives for backup. When CD-R was a cheap option, my clients started buying machines with that in them and we used the same XCOPY scripts for backing up their files (with suitable alterations to reflect different paths and drives, of course). In Windows NT, Win98 and Win2K, this worked just fine. With WinXP, it started breaking, becoming unreliable (because of the addition of the staging area, I believe). This was my point: using the drive CORRECTLY (as you agree, it seems to me), it now, with WinXP, doesn't work reliably. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
I thought so myself, and it is on channel 10, but still the piano sounds. Now, interestingly enough, when I tried Hyperscrive in GPO, the countoff and click sound was automatically a percussion sound (kind of like a triangle, I think). H .. Dean On Jul 30, 2005, at 3:08 PM, dhbailey wrote: Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok ... just installed 2006 w/out any problems I can detect. Messed around with a couple of instruments in GPO (Eng. Hrn. and Cl.) in a little duet I wrote. I think the quality of the sounds and human playback are excellent, as promised. However, when I added a couple of more instruments, as Darcy predicted, I started getting the crackle and pop because I just running an iMac at 600 Mhz. If I upgrade the processor, I can see no reason at present why I would be unhappy with 2006. Another however, however, in Hyperscribe, out of GPO, the only countoff and click sound I seem to be able to get is my acoustic grand piano. I guess I can live with this, but I'd sure rather have a percussion sound. I believe you can assign that to be channel 10 so you get percussion sounds rather than piano sounds. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale As a newly diagnosed diabetic, self denial is now my ally, exercise my master. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO/non-GPO workflow question
On 30 Jul 2005 at 13:56, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 30 Jul 2005, at 12:02 PM, Andrew Levin wrote: [] One other marginally related question: I read here (or Jari's review, or the Finale web site -- sorry that I can't remember) that GPO output is only for the sound that comes out of your speakers. Saving as audio does not save the HP/GPO performance. Do I remember that correctly? Yes. That would be awful if it were the case. Yes it is. That feature is scheduled to be added in 2006a. Can you use the save HP as MIDI plugin (or whatever it's called) to get 'round that? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Of course you'd like it to work with MusicXML. Isn't that YOUR company? Where is the guess work in MIDI files? Example, I can do something in Digital Performer, load it into Logic, and it looks the same. Triplets come out as triplets. Etc. But I load the same file into Finale, and the triplet comes out wrong. Or maybe Finale decides that a whole note isn't exactly a whole note anymore. Hell, even Cakewalk usually does a better job importing MIDI than Finale. I'm concerned with it just getting the notes and rhythms right, not all the other stuff that goes into music notation. If it could import Midi's 99% better I'd be happy. Now that MakeMusic have climbed into bed with NativeInstruments and Garritan, they'll next climb into bed with Logic and license their quantization and importing algorithms? Why not? Worse things could happen, our upgrade dollars could certainly be spent much worsely, as long as the midi import is improved. That would also improve Hyperscribe, one would hope, so that Finale could better interpret what we play. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Mac Finale 2006 Performance
Has anyone noticed that Finale 2006 seems slower on a lot of things than 2005 was. For example, if I highlight a bar, then hold shift, then go to another bar, there is a lag. I didn't have that with Finale 2005. I see the lag big time on my 933 G4, and a little on my Mini Mac. I have yet to try the PC version. Both Macs are maxed out with ram, and running 10.4.2 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
On 30 Jul 2005 at 15:27, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I thought so myself, and it is on channel 10, but still the piano sounds. Now, interestingly enough, when I tried Hyperscrive in GPO, the countoff and click sound was automatically a percussion sound (kind of like a triangle, I think). H .. I've never found Hyperscribe usable, myself, but why would it matter what synth you use for *input*? Can't you switch to the Finale soundfont for Hyperscribe input, and then switch to GPO for playback once the notes are in? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
Indeed. I seriously think this update blows. I don't see any speed improvements, in fact, I see a lot of things that seem slower, like highlighting stuff using Mass Mover. dhbailey wrote: Timetables, Aaron, timetables. Deadlines doth make compromisers of us all. Better a product which doesn't work as it should but is shipped when promised than a product which excels but may be late. MakeMusic learned that the hard way with OSX and all the bitching about them being late with that, so I can see why they have a get it out the door and we'll fix it in an update mentality these days. :-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Darcy: Where is the setting for Ambiance Reverb? I've missed it somehow. Under Midi, click on Native Instruments VST Setup. There is a checkbox at the bottom called Ambiance Reverb. There is an edit button next to it. Click the EDIT button and you can then change lots of things about it, but if you're on windows you can't access any presets. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and SmartMusic Accompaniment
That really sucks. I have an active subscription to SmartMusic (as the schools around here use it in their music program). Too bad they don't have a standalone player. dhbailey wrote: They've apparently changed this because when I try to play my own music, entered into Finale and saved as a SmartMusic Accompaniment (under File, SaveSpecial, etc.) I get the you can't open this file without activating a subscription with MakeMusic. Thanks a lot, MakeMusic. When will you give me my share of your income from my files? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Tuplets
Just to have a break from GPO issues, here's something a little odd I just noticed. I have a passage with 16th-note 6-tuples in some parts, 8th-note triplets in others, and various mixed duple and other rhythms in others. In the tuple rhythms, the tuple number is on the beam side, with no brackets. What is odd is that the tuple numbers are horizontally not positioned consistently (H offsets are all zero). For example, sometimes the 6 on a 16th-note 6-tuple is between the 3rd and 4th notes, where it belongs, and sometimes it's aligned horizontally right on the 3rd note, and occasionally even on the 4th note. On an 8th-note triplet, the 3 is sometimes noticeably to the left of the middle note. I can't quite put my finger on what this correlates to, but it seems to have something to do with music spacing when tuples syncopate against other parts in the score. If I extract one of the offending parts from the score, the tuple numbers are all positioned properly. I'm on Finale 2004a; is this an issue that was fixed in a more recent version? Not a biggie, just curious. Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Mac Finale 2006 Performance
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Has anyone noticed that Finale 2006 seems slower on a lot of things than 2005 was. For example, if I highlight a bar, then hold shift, then go to another bar, there is a lag. I didn't have that with Finale 2005. I see the lag big time on my 933 G4, and a little on my Mini Mac. I have yet to try the PC version. Both Macs are maxed out with ram, and running 10.4.2 On my PC I don't notice any such lag. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
On Jul 30, 2005, at 2:44 PM, dhbailey wrote:n the past, even when there hasn't been much of great import touted in the upgrades, I have found each one I have purchased (every one since I started using version 3.5) to have had significant numbers of small improvements all through the program. I have never been disappointed until now. For me, a Mac user, that fact the I can now use all 8 of my sound modules for playback is worth the price of the upgrade. I am disappointed that I can't use my modules in combination with the included GPO library, but I was among the many list members involved in the GPO group buy last month, and so I can use that version of GPO in combination with my sound modules. I'll bet Gary Garritan is smiling like the Cheshire Cat over that bit of marketing. He gets a bunch of us to buy GPO for a cut rate, and we're all thinking we're getting this great bargain. Then, a month later, MakeMusic announces that GPO is rolled into the next upgrade of Finale. Well, as it turns out, I need the full version of GPO in order to combine it with my sound modules, so I'm not really complaining. Now, if only I could afford a computer powerful enough to actually use all this stuff. ;-)Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Yes, I could ... not a problem. It's just that when inputting in soundfont, via Hyperscribe, it's easier to deal with a percussive sound, which I haven't been able to get yet. If I understand your question correctly. Thanks, Dean On Jul 30, 2005, at 3:46 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 30 Jul 2005 at 15:27, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I thought so myself, and it is on channel 10, but still the piano sounds. Now, interestingly enough, when I tried Hyperscrive in GPO, the countoff and click sound was automatically a percussion sound (kind of like a triangle, I think). H .. I've never found Hyperscribe usable, myself, but why would it matter what synth you use for *input*? Can't you switch to the Finale soundfont for Hyperscribe input, and then switch to GPO for playback once the notes are in? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale As a newly diagnosed diabetic, self denial is now my ally, exercise my master. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Mac Finale 2006 Performance
Yes, I have noticed. Please make sure you send your complaints to Macsupport immediately. Johannes Eric Dannewitz schrieb: Has anyone noticed that Finale 2006 seems slower on a lot of things than 2005 was. For example, if I highlight a bar, then hold shift, then go to another bar, there is a lag. I didn't have that with Finale 2005. I see the lag big time on my 933 G4, and a little on my Mini Mac. I have yet to try the PC version. Both Macs are maxed out with ram, and running 10.4.2 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] GPO instrument loading
I stand corrected. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 30, 2005 2:09 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] GPO instrument loading On 30 Jul 2005, at 1:26 PM, ronan wrote: In the Kontakt player, in the box underneath the CPO Usage box is a happy face? cat? (it's so small I can't make out what it's suppose to be.) Click that and you can assign an input channel to the instrument you have selected. So, yes, you can have Finale write to Channels 9-16, the have your second instance of Kontakt point to channels 9-16 for their input. No, not when using the AU/VST version of GPO in Fin2006. The second instance is hardwired to channels 17-32, and so on. You can, of course, change the default channel assignments of the first instance to any channel between 1 and 16, but there's not much point in doing that. Just let the Setup Wizard put the channels where it wants, and everything works. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Got it, Thanks, Dean On Jul 30, 2005, at 3:46 PM, dhbailey wrote: Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Darcy: Where is the setting for Ambiance Reverb? I've missed it somehow. Under Midi, click on Native Instruments VST Setup. There is a checkbox at the bottom called Ambiance Reverb. There is an edit button next to it. Click the EDIT button and you can then change lots of things about it, but if you're on windows you can't access any presets. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale As a newly diagnosed diabetic, self denial is now my ally, exercise my master. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
At 06:11 PM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: Better a product which doesn't work as it should but is shipped when promised than a product which excels but may be late. Hogwash. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
On Jul 30, 2005, at 2:44 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:If you're going to use a different file for playback, why not just save your printable score as MIDI then use a sequencer to tweak playback? Why use Finale at all for creating a playback file if you're going to fork your playback from the printed score? I agree. That's exactly what I do for playback. And when I open my Finale-generated MIDI file in Digital Performer, all of my repeats are played correctly (provided I configured them correctly), and HP creates a tempo map that follows rit. and accel. markings, as well as fermatas. I can then fine tune the MIDI file, and have it played by any combination of sounds, only limited by my computer's ability to handle it. Finale will never be able to give the user all of the features that a dedicated sequencer/audio recording program offers. In my opinion, anyone who thinks they can ever do it all in Finale is just dreaming. And why should you? It's a notation program.Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
At 06:40 PM 07/30/2005, dhbailey wrote: Which brings up the question as to why the Ambience Reverb doesn't give us Room Sizes to choose from, at least on the Windows side of things? Is that something to be expected in the maintenance release as well? Yes, according to Winsupport. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
David, HALLELUJAH! At least someone understands what I am getting at. Many thanks for the kind suggestions you put forth in your previous email. Constructive help is so much nicer than sniping. I shall now go forth and put them into practice. In my own defence, I would like to explain that when I received the new software on Thursday I was experiencing a problem with my computer. I could not access the manual. So, I was unable to study just what was involved in setting up GPO. I still haven't had the time to do so. But later on today I shall have the time. Once again, Many thanks, John - Original Message - From: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO Darcy James Argue wrote: John, they are exactly the same instruments you heard on the Finale website. If the unpleasant coloration was absent there, then you ought not to have anything to complain about. Have you tried the sounds *in context* (i.e., in an ensemble), with HP and Ambience Reverb on? I think John's point is that he is totally baffled about how to make his files sound like the demo files. He's not saying that the GPO sounds are bad, just that he can't seem to get them to sound good on his computer. That's why one would hope MakeMusic would put the Finale files from which their demos were derived (they were derived from Finale files and not sequences played into a different application, no?) from up somewhere for us to download and to see exactly what settings were used to get those terrific sounding demos. For many of us, simply switching from soundfont to GPO produces very little improvement. We need to know the steps necessary to achieve the same quality as the demos display. Which brings up the question as to why the Ambience Reverb doesn't give us Room Sizes to choose from, at least on the Windows side of things? Is that something to be expected in the maintenance release as well? My Altec Lansing speakers provide very good sound, so the blame cannot be laid there. The demos I have tried from the internet all sound good, or at least as good as would satisfy me if I could get mine to sound as good. So, in view of the comments from members of the list who say how superior the GPO sounds are They are definitely superior to the Finale sound font. Clearly, they are not superior to professional orchestral sample libraries costing thousands of dollars. You have to be realistic in your expectations. The following quotes, from the Garritan web-site: the highest quality collection of orchestral instruments ever sampled (doesn't say in this price range it says EVER) Acclaimed as the most significant sample-based instrument library ever to be produced, GPO has won more awards than any other orchestral library it is the quality of the instruments that drives this package are certainly quotes which lead me to believe it superior to East-West or Vienna Symphony libraries. Either that or Garritan was successful in keeping those libraries from whatever competitions or organizations handed out those awards. The first line I quoted was from Garritan's own ad-copy on the web-site. Okay, I can understand their hyperbole about their own product being a bit of a stretch, but the other two quotes are from outside sources. Those quotes are not exactly what I would expect for a product you describe as not being superior to professional orchestral sample libraries costing thousands of dollars -- it sure sounds as somebody thinks they're the best thing since A440! And that somebody is the company who is building up our expectations -- expectations you are telling us we need to be more realistic about. And that's one major aspect of this whole Finale2006 upgrade debacle -- both MakeMusic and Garritan make it seem as if we will be able easily and without having to sell the farm to buy hardware upgrades to get fantastic sounding representations of our scores. We just want to know how so we can get back to engraving and composing and be done with all this. Nobody ever mentioned large learning curve in the publicity. :-o -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
I just finished setting up a symphonic score with 40 instruments, using Finale with the full version of GPO. I have each percussion instrument set to a different channel. Eg, Snare: 67; tamtam = 68, etc. They play back beautifully. BTW, I didn't bother with midi assignments. I left all of them pointing to the acoustic Grand Piano because I am not interested in midi. Channel 10 does not exist in Kontakt and is only of use if you are planning to produce midi output. Ron Ronald J Brown PO Box 138 Newboro ON K0G 1P0 (613) 272-3181 http://www.RonaldJBrown.com -Original Message- From: dhbailey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 30, 2005 6:08 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok ... just installed 2006 w/out any problems I can detect. Messed around with a couple of instruments in GPO (Eng. Hrn. and Cl.) in a little duet I wrote. I think the quality of the sounds and human playback are excellent, as promised. However, when I added a couple of more instruments, as Darcy predicted, I started getting the crackle and pop because I just running an iMac at 600 Mhz. If I upgrade the processor, I can see no reason at present why I would be unhappy with 2006. Another however, however, in Hyperscribe, out of GPO, the only countoff and click sound I seem to be able to get is my acoustic grand piano. I guess I can live with this, but I'd sure rather have a percussion sound. I believe you can assign that to be channel 10 so you get percussion sounds rather than piano sounds. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Why MIDI import is guesswork for notation programs
Hi Eric, Where is the guess work in MIDI files? If MIDI was good enough for music notation, there would have been no need to invent MusicXML. We invented MusicXML because there was no adequate way to transfer music notation between applications. MIDI's inadequacy for music notation is hardly controversial. You can buy a whole book called Beyond MIDI from MIT Press on pretty much this one topic. I discussed some of the details in section 3 of my XML 2001 presentation, available online at: http://www.idealliance.org/papers/xml2001/papers/html/03-04-05.html There is no such thing a note, a rest, or a triplet in MIDI. MIDI just has events that say here's the start of a note and here's the end of a note. There's no concept of a whole note, much less a tuplet. There's not even a distinction between a C# and a Db. And then we're not even getting into all the non-note markings like slurs, expressions, cresc and diminuendo marks, chord symbols, and more. You may not care about those, but others do. In any program, choosing the right quantization settings can make a big difference in how well the MIDI import works. This lets the program make better guesses when reading in the MIDI file. MusicXML is a far better format than MIDI for transfering this music notation information, because it represents all these musical concepts directly. There's no guesswork involved. MusicXML is free for any company to use in their products, just like MIDI. It seems less than ideal for MakeMusic to put more effort into supporting a format that is rapidly becoming obsolete for use with music notation. It's great that Logic and Digital Performer do a better job of importing MIDI files. I'm sure they put a lot of work into making the right guesses about how MIDI's synthesizer-based ideas translate into notation. MIDI was not designed to support music notation, and it is a tribute to a lot of skilled people over the years that it has worked as well as it did. But you will get better results going from Digital Performer to Finale if Digital Performer starts saving MusicXML files. That is true no matter how much time, money, and effort MakeMusic puts into better MIDI import. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Why MIDI import is guesswork for notation programs
On 30 Jul 2005 at 16:44, Michael Good wrote: Hi Eric, Where is the guess work in MIDI files? If MIDI was good enough for music notation, there would have been no need to invent MusicXML. We invented MusicXML because there was no adequate way to transfer music notation between applications. I think you're missing the point. The problems Eric was having with MIDI import have *nothing* to do with notational elements that cannot be included in MIDI files. They have everything to do with Finale's obtuse transcription of MIDI data into notation. We're only talking about get the notes and rhythms right, nothing else. And that should be relatively easy to do without having to make a bunch of changes to Finale's default MIDI import settings. As it stands, the results are not as good as one gets with other programs translating MIDI data *only* into notes and rhythms. And I think that's where the complaint lies. I am glad I don't often need to do MIDI import. It would drive me crazy if I did. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Mac Finale 2006 Performance
Sent! I am amazed at the low quality of this release. Seriously. Johannes Gebauer wrote: Yes, I have noticed. Please make sure you send your complaints to Macsupport immediately. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Why MIDI import is guesswork for notation programs
Thank you! David W. Fenton wrote: I think you're missing the point. The problems Eric was having with MIDI import have *nothing* to do with notational elements that cannot be included in MIDI files. They have everything to do with Finale's obtuse transcription of MIDI data into notation. We're only talking about get the notes and rhythms right, nothing else. And that should be relatively easy to do without having to make a bunch of changes to Finale's default MIDI import settings. As it stands, the results are not as good as one gets with other programs translating MIDI data *only* into notes and rhythms. And I think that's where the complaint lies. I am glad I don't often need to do MIDI import. It would drive me crazy if I did. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Good News/Bad News
This has been said elsewhere, but just to be clear: You can get 64 instruments. You can instantiate 8 Kontakt players, and each player can have 8 instruments. That makes 64. If your computer can handle all 8 instances of the Kontakt player. True, but you're going to run into this with any software sampler. The alternative of course is to go down the route Hiro has with his 2 hardware samplers, but that takes up a lot more space and costs a LOT more money. Who out there has the computing power to use everything that logic offers?! Better that it's there than not ... Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Why MIDI import is guesswork for notation programs
No to be rude, but I really don't care about MusicXML. I'm dealing with MIDI files. The way most professional sequencers (Digital Performer/Protools/Logic) can shuttle things back and forth. I don't see studio's MusicXML to get stuff out of Digital Performer into Sibelius or Finale. All Finale needs to do correctly read them, and put them in the program. I don't care about all the other stuff. If if could correctly put the Midi file I do in Logic or DP4.6 on the screen, it would be great. It's never worked right. Midi importing is a sorely lacking in Finale. Why can Logic and Digital Performer correctly display what I inputted on the screen, and Finale decides its something else? Midi totally has the concept of a note. You have where in the measure it is, and how long it is played. Isn't that enough to figure out stuff? Logic and DP4.6 can..as well as other programs. Michael Good wrote: If MIDI was good enough for music notation, there would have been no need to invent MusicXML. We invented MusicXML because there was no adequate way to transfer music notation between applications. MIDI's inadequacy for music notation is hardly controversial. You can buy a whole book called Beyond MIDI from MIT Press on pretty much this one topic. I discussed some of the details in section 3 of my XML 2001 presentation, available online at: ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Mac Finale 2006 Performance
I see the lag big time on my 933 G4, and a little on my Mini Mac. I have yet to try the PC version. Both Macs are maxed out with ram, and running 10.4.2 Maybe you're not getting the benefit from CoreGraphics? What graphics card do you have? Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 softsynth OR GPO audiosaving
Indeed. I seriously think this update blows. I don't see any speed improvements, in fact, I see a lot of things that seem slower, like highlighting stuff using Mass Mover. I've got speed parity or improvement. Simon Troup Digital Music Art ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
